Let's see how water soluble this filament really is. Check out my Amazon Store: amzn.to/4efGRDK Check out my website: lendizzle.com/ / lendizzleprintz As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
I just used it as an interface layer with no z offset and man I can just crack off my supports by hand right away everyday, I do about 4-5 prints a day for work with it and love it
When I've used PVA in the past it was always an overnight soak - sometimes longer for larger prints. Really hate to waste so much of the expensive PVA with the swaps.
@@isaacwong3883 many slicers call it the interface layer. because it seporates from the model, it helps to set the gap to zero. Keep in mind there is an interface layer above the support and in some cases, if the support is off the model there may be an interface layer at the bottom. See my other comment about using PETG for a cheaper filament.
Great review. The only thing I would add, is recommending people not use PVA in 0.2mm nozzles. Even being really careful to keep the PVA dry, we haven't managed to do a print with PVA as support interface which is longer than 18 hours without blocking the nozzle. Most of the time, unblocking the nozzle is time consuming (multiple cold pulls) and just a temporary solution. One hex pull did manage to pull out 1.75mm disk of hardened, discoloured PVA, but two of our 0.2mm nozzles are now so thoroughly blocked, that I'm going to need to find a few way of unblocking them.
If anybody is curious, this is not a new or advanced material. This is essentially white glue, most often seen as Elmer's Glue in the US. Treat it the same way.
I have had marginal success with PVA. A few issues are: It probably needs prolonged soaking. It turns into a gel consistency. It works better to have warm agitated water. Warm is obvious. the temperature depends on your main model. What I mean agitated water is think dishwasher spray. Maybe something like a water pick tooth brush. maybe use a coffie filter to filter out the used water and reuse. with an specialty use water pick. I would not use it in my mouth after reusing the water. Another trick is just have the interface layer between the support and model being PVA. The problem is getting the main support off. with the test that you did. The main support might separate from the model but not come out of the inside. One issue with prolonged soaking is water inside. might need drying. in your test the die indide might get water inside and hard to get out. A problem I had when using PVA is getting the model to stick to the support. not insurmountable. just problematic. I did it by slowing the print down. This depends on the main material and how it interacts with the PVA.
I’m new to this process. Maybe I missed something but wouldn’t it dissolve with hot tap water? I’m guessing you would still need to replace it with hot water every hour.
Agitating it in warm water would probably shorten the dissolving time. I'd try something like a dedicated Sous Vide system that can keep a consistent water temperature and keep the water moving.
I have had good luck printing the PVA as just the interface layer. then not bothering dissolving. just let it come off easy. Just make sure to set the gap to zero. keeps the surface finish good. depending on the main part material defines the best support. One thing to consider is swapping filament takes time, and poops
does purge to infill reduce some of the wasted material when going between filament to pva and vice versa? it would make sense to dump some pva into the infill so long as it doesn't get water logged with no openings to reduce waste
I think what would also save time is make only the top 5 layers of the support PVA as the rest below that can just be PLA. This would mean it spends less time on filament swapping than it usually would. But that's just a thought I had.
It would be better if the slicer could just use the expensive PVA for a few layers at the interface with the part. That would also make the print much faster.
This will be perfect for an injector plate (with injectors integrated). It requires supports on the interior, and I'll be testing it by running water through it. Edit: Though it will probably clog the injectors lol
Does that work? I've honestly never heard that. Please tell me more about this. I sometimes have the hardest time with the damn supports not wanting to pop off.
@@TJoker--- It does, PLA and PETG do not mechanically bond and therefore can do full contact supports with one another. The main issue is clogging the nozzle between the swaps.
From what I've heard it works, but not on a bambulab printer. The other filament gets contaminated and the whole part becomes very weak at the layer you used the PLA/PETG interface material. This even happened for me when I used the specific bambulab support filament.
Just a quick comment... I had issues printing with PLA-CF that I couldn't use the spool inside the AMS... So... How can I use PVA+PLA-CF if I couldn't put the spool inside the AMS and gave me an error?
If you change the nozzle type to hardened steel then it will prompt that CF filaments are brittle and can crack off in the AMS. I use CF Filaments and touch wood never had an issue with snappage.
How can PVA be a viable support material for Carbon or Glass filled filaments if Bambu Lab says not to run Carbon or Glass filled filaments through the AMS?
one good way to minimize the high price filament: model the support in cad including in this a low cost filament and the dissolvable It all depends on how long it will take to model, and how much it will save in filament cost. This can be skewed by poop and time reduction. Some other design considerations is drain holes for soaking
warmer will work faster but it still takes some time. You may also need to change the water out depending on the volume of water and volume of your print. think of it like dissolving a candy cane into water, you could use a ultrasonic cleaner with the water to help as well.
It’s really good with their AMS system, since it can automatically switch between filaments mid print. But yes if you do not have an AMS this would be more hassle than it’s worth
I just used it as an interface layer with no z offset and man I can just crack off my supports by hand right away everyday, I do about 4-5 prints a day for work with it and love it
Where is the setting to make it only the interface layer?
Wouldn't PETG do that as well?
When I've used PVA in the past it was always an overnight soak - sometimes longer for larger prints. Really hate to waste so much of the expensive PVA with the swaps.
from what i have seen, people would usually print pva on the top few layers that contact the print and leave the rest with regular filament
@@isaacwong3883 many slicers call it the interface layer. because it seporates from the model, it helps to set the gap to zero. Keep in mind there is an interface layer above the support and in some cases, if the support is off the model there may be an interface layer at the bottom. See my other comment about using PETG for a cheaper filament.
@@isaacwong3883where have you seen this 😮
You can also print only the support interface with PVA and print the support base with your regular filament
Great review. The only thing I would add, is recommending people not use PVA in 0.2mm nozzles. Even being really careful to keep the PVA dry, we haven't managed to do a print with PVA as support interface which is longer than 18 hours without blocking the nozzle. Most of the time, unblocking the nozzle is time consuming (multiple cold pulls) and just a temporary solution. One hex pull did manage to pull out 1.75mm disk of hardened, discoloured PVA, but two of our 0.2mm nozzles are now so thoroughly blocked, that I'm going to need to find a few way of unblocking them.
If anybody is curious, this is not a new or advanced material. This is essentially white glue, most often seen as Elmer's Glue in the US. Treat it the same way.
Did you dry the pva beforehand?
I have had marginal success with PVA. A few issues are:
It probably needs prolonged soaking. It turns into a gel consistency. It works better to have warm agitated water. Warm is obvious. the temperature depends on your main model. What I mean agitated water is think dishwasher spray. Maybe something like a water pick tooth brush. maybe use a coffie filter to filter out the used water and reuse. with an specialty use water pick. I would not use it in my mouth after reusing the water.
Another trick is just have the interface layer between the support and model being PVA. The problem is getting the main support off. with the test that you did. The main support might separate from the model but not come out of the inside.
One issue with prolonged soaking is water inside. might need drying. in your test the die indide might get water inside and hard to get out.
A problem I had when using PVA is getting the model to stick to the support. not insurmountable. just problematic. I did it by slowing the print down. This depends on the main material and how it interacts with the PVA.
Maybe try it with an ultrasonic cleaner?
magnetic stirrer and a riser so that the stirrer doesnt hit the print. Does the job in a few hours and that's probably overkill
Thank you for the review, and for the advice on using it.
I’m new to this process. Maybe I missed something but wouldn’t it dissolve with hot tap water? I’m guessing you would still need to replace it with hot water every hour.
maybe a rice cooker set to "keep warm"
I bought some when they released it. Worked well for me. Felt like it took longer to dissolve than expected.
try a Ultrasone with warm water.. that should do the job mutch faster
Agitating it in warm water would probably shorten the dissolving time. I'd try something like a dedicated Sous Vide system that can keep a consistent water temperature and keep the water moving.
An ultrasonic cleaning bath would be ideal
I have had good luck printing the PVA as just the interface layer. then not bothering dissolving. just let it come off easy. Just make sure to set the gap to zero. keeps the surface finish good. depending on the main part material defines the best support. One thing to consider is swapping filament takes time, and poops
does purge to infill reduce some of the wasted material when going between filament to pva and vice versa? it would make sense to dump some pva into the infill so long as it doesn't get water logged with no openings to reduce waste
I think what would also save time is make only the top 5 layers of the support PVA as the rest below that can just be PLA. This would mean it spends less time on filament swapping than it usually would. But that's just a thought I had.
broken part might be not enough purge volume and some PVA might make its way into the PLA portion, which will weaken it.
It would be better if the slicer could just use the expensive PVA for a few layers at the interface with the part. That would also make the print much faster.
Can PVA be run thru a .2mm nozzle?
Would using running warm water help ?
This will be perfect for an injector plate (with injectors integrated). It requires supports on the interior, and I'll be testing it by running water through it.
Edit: Though it will probably clog the injectors lol
can you paint the PVA so it just uses the PVA where it is touching the model? or maybe use cheap PLA for the bottom chunk and the rest PVA?
Yes that setting is under supports “support interface” only
How about PETG for support material for PLA and vice versa?
better option for sure at least when you need just support for fragile think.
Does that work? I've honestly never heard that. Please tell me more about this. I sometimes have the hardest time with the damn supports not wanting to pop off.
@@TJoker--- It does, PLA and PETG do not mechanically bond and therefore can do full contact supports with one another. The main issue is clogging the nozzle between the swaps.
@@TJoker--- It does work, I have this from Prusa employee directly.
From what I've heard it works, but not on a bambulab printer. The other filament gets contaminated and the whole part becomes very weak at the layer you used the PLA/PETG interface material. This even happened for me when I used the specific bambulab support filament.
Just a quick comment... I had issues printing with PLA-CF that I couldn't use the spool inside the AMS... So... How can I use PVA+PLA-CF if I couldn't put the spool inside the AMS and gave me an error?
If you change the nozzle type to hardened steel then it will prompt that CF filaments are brittle and can crack off in the AMS. I use CF Filaments and touch wood never had an issue with snappage.
How can PVA be a viable support material for Carbon or Glass filled filaments if Bambu Lab says not to run Carbon or Glass filled filaments through the AMS?
Bambu doesn’t say not to use those in AMS
one good way to minimize the high price filament: model the support in cad including in this a low cost filament and the dissolvable It all depends on how long it will take to model, and how much it will save in filament cost. This can be skewed by poop and time reduction. Some other design considerations is drain holes for soaking
Any recommendations on a filament dryer?
Fixdry filament dryer
@@lendizzle77 Thanks
you need to find a way to agitate it, warm water with a small recirculation pump is best
Try putting it inside an agitator or ultrasonic cleaner, that might speed up your process
Was the water cold or warm (not hot). Wonder if warmer water goes to work quicker?
warmer will work faster but it still takes some time. You may also need to change the water out depending on the volume of water and volume of your print. think of it like dissolving a candy cane into water, you could use a ultrasonic cleaner with the water to help as well.
Yeah sorry but even having your print destroyed by support isn’t as annoying as dealing with multi material print times just to avoid supports.
It’s really good with their AMS system, since it can automatically switch between filaments mid print. But yes if you do not have an AMS this would be more hassle than it’s worth
Jacobi Corners
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