Using PVA To Print INSANELY Complex Models
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ย. 2022
- Check out Micro Swiss for awesome 3d printer upgrades:
store.micro-swiss.com/
Love the channel? Consider supporting me on Patreon:
www.patreon.com/user?u=806627
ModBot Merch Store is now live! Get yours here:
bit.ly/3qhJ8Yl
In this video we dive into Polyvinyl Alcohol more commonly known as PVA. This is a water soluble support material that will let you print complex models that would not be possible otherwise. It can also be used as an interface layer to help with support removal. In this video we go through the properties of PVA, how to print with it, and we do some 3d printing.
Download the gyro model here:
www.youmagine.com/designs/gyr...
Pick up the Sovol SV04 (AFF):
bit.ly/3A9YK5u
Find out more or purchase PVA here (AFF):
bit.ly/3Ew8QjI
Galaxy Dark Blue PLA Filament (AFF):
bit.ly/3UY6kIp
Join the official ModBotArmy discord server: / discord
(´∀｀)♡ As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases:
Buy now on Amazon: amzn.to/2jQAOgV
Subscribe To My 3d Printing Blog! :
Lets Get Social!
Facebook: / dopesoner930
Twitter: / dopesoner930
Instagram: / modbotarmy
Twitch: / dopesoner930
that timelapse is insane!
Dude! I have not ran a Timelapse in probably a hear and was super nervous. I kept thinking either my focus would be off or my interval wouldn’t be right or the print would float out of frame when it dissolved. I was beyond happy when I came back a few hours later 🙌
Legends collide
A good tip for dissolving the pva: Keep your part elevated in the waterbath. This way the pva that is partly dissolved falls down to the ground away from the part. Water with high concentration of pva builds up at the bottom where your part is not. Water with low concentration of pva is at your part, dissolving the pva and falling to the bottom, because it is getting heavyer. So if you do not have a large bath with the option to agitate the water, opt for a tall bath with your part suspended by a string, or sitting on an elevated mesh.
Informative as always. There are a number of Creators that explain how to do something, but you always add the reasoning behind why to do it that way. This puts your videos a step above rest. Great format,
Great video as always
Good walk-through
Thanks for sharing 🙂
Here’s a fun fact-PVA is stronger than Nylon! If only it weren’t water-soluble… it would be a lot more common as a strong household plastic.
Very interesting material. You did a great job of explaining the pros and cons
It really is a unique one. Thank you 😊
My first experience printing was on an Ultimaker S3 with PVA supports. It’s definitely preferable if you know you need supports, but have an awkward model that just know you’re gonna break removing supports, like tabletop minis.
Using it as interface layer is brilliant. I'll have to give that a shot.
Hey guys, I think this is a good place to share this:
I use PVA for adhesion. I mean, why is gluestick or hairspray sometimes working? Well it contains PVA or connections with similar properties. So what I did was, I chopped up PVA filament and mixed it with water and put it in a dispenser flask. And to prepare a build surface I took hardened glas and smeared it with my fingers on a warm build surface (be careful not to burn your fingers if you try this). The surface works like HELL with PLA AND ALSO WITH NYLON! It adheres so well, that I damaged one build plate trying to remove the print. But after cooling down (I print at 60°C) it doesnt stick at all (as long as the nozzle didnt dig through the film of PVA). And the best part is i hardly need to change it. I can print hundreds of times on it and maybe need to apply a bit on one spot. Try it and spread the word.
yep, good ol' PVA cocktail is a tale as old as time j/k - we used to do this in the early reprap days 🙂
Have you tried making a raft from PVA? Instead of melting it manually?
@@anterprites Why print a raft if you can apply it with your finger and it stays for 100s of prints...
@@dingsens2810 I didn't know that it could be for so long
@@anterprites it becomes a hard coating. doesnt work on all types of glass though
Great video. I'm about to get a multi head printer and this was just the PVA primer I was looking for. The parts where you went through the settings was especially helpful. Thank you!
What printer did you end up getting and have you used the PVA with it?
I bought a Proforge4. Yes I've just started using PVA. I'm still having issues with stringing - mainly with the PLA filament. I'm waiting for a filament dryer. I'm suspecting it may be contaminated filament@@Lensman64
thanks for trimming down to 11min! much apprec
Congrats to 100k subs!
I love my ssv04, nice choice!!
I used PVA for support material while printing O gauge figures. I've also found that an ultrasonic cleaner with warm water can help process the PVA off a print quickly.
Oh man I gotta try this. Love that thumbnail and Timelapse man!
Thanks man! Make sure to dry it haha that is seriously key. It’s a nutty filament and I feel like the formulation has changed a bit. The PolyMaker pva was impressive.
Ive always liked micro swiss, I never looked into where they were manufactured until I found out that they're made just down the road from me in Minneapolis Minnesota. And they have a shipping centre and store front a mile away from the college I went to.
Dan?
Amazing, you get right to it.
I am new, never sliced or printers anything.
Have been obsessed with 3d printing for years.
Plan to order my first printer today.
Interested in nylon x, and high strength plastics.
I will order a CR 10 pro H. Today. (Soon)
I would like to make this a dual extruder, and add a micro Swiss all metal hot end and extruder.
Will need help with control.
May be to much, but
Thanks,
Would love to print the nested gears in a few months.
A 22 IDEX From Vision Miner for about $3000 is way more printer, but a little out of my budget, no money for filament.
They are so nice, with a tilting non planor bed, they need to develope firmware for.
Oh well creality my be a lesser machine, but because of u tube, I am familiar with it and it appears I can make the upgrades I need
Using soluble materials for interface layers is my favorite application, especially with some of the more expensive support materials that cost more than the build material (AquaTek X1 and Aquasys 120 for example). The bottom layers that result from using supports this way can't compare to anything else. Definitely an awesome process.
What printer do you use ? Idex ? brand ?
@@florentleider222 primarily I've been using an Ender 3 Pro with a Chimera. It works, but a Chimera is not a good solution to be honest. To many issues fighting ooze and idle nozzle drag.
I'm getting ready to put a MakerTech DSH on an X5SA-400 which I think should work a lot better. Also plan on designing my own switching extruder once I've got the MakerTech running as I already see a number of flaws with it.
Opted to skip IDEX as I feel like a switching hotend has a lot more potential with the exception of added weight and failure points.
@@bentracy7463 Many thanks for your reply. Unfortunately I don't have enough skills to consider designing my own switching extruder ...😒 So I will stick to some idex (maybe snapmaker J1 once I'll have read somme reviews).
Thanks for cura settings that you shared because it can be challenging printing with pva at the first time 😊
Nice job 👌
When I saw this title come up, I was confused. As a woodworker also, PVA's primary meaning to me is polyvinyl acetate -- i.e., white or yellow wood glue (Elmer's Glue). Very interesting video. I'm fairly new to 3D printing, so this was something I was unaware of.
I use it with nylon and nylon carbon fiber blends almost weekly, it works great. Makerboth method x has a really good setup for soluble supports and I've only had good experiences with pva on it as long as I pre-dried the filament
Have you tried PVA with the X1 Carbon/AMS? I'm curious if there's any gotch-ya's when you share a single nozzle in non-IDEX set-ups.
New goal! Thanks. Are you getting your hands on the SOVOL SV06? Mine has shipped and I'm getting more curious as the delivery gets closer 🤔
The same is possible with *_HIPS_* when printing Parts made out of *_ASA_* ( or -ABS- ).
HIPS is said to be dissolvable with Limonene but can easily be peeled off the ASA without it while still sticking to each other when it counts.
ASA + HIPS is my favorite filament combo. Most of the time the HIPS breaks away cleanly even with 0 air gaps, and for very small or interior crevices, I soften it with Limonene for 20 minutes then just scrape and rinse it out.
Thank you for that great video and all the others before.
I have an IDEX printer, but using it most of the time in duplication and mirror mode to save time while printing similar parts.
I love using Klipper in my other printers but Klipper isn't still realy capable of IDEX printing especially duplication and mirror mode.
Maybe a video about this would wake up the klipper community to focus a bit on IDEX printing. I am not enough familiar in coding so I can not bring this foreward.
Great video, really informative
Thank you 😊❤️
If you have a lot of PVA to dissovle remove as much of it as you can before soaking. it will be much faster and reduce the need to change the water.
A ultra sonic cleaner can speed this up if you do this often.
Great video! I really have to get back in to printing with PVA. I tried it in 2014 with my fixed dual extruder Printrbot with partial success (I didn't have a filament dryer back then). After my daughter was born and my wife exiled my printers to the garage after hearing about particulates, I stopped 3D printing for some years. Then early last year I got an IDEX printer in large part to get back to using PVA, but I haven't gotten around to it. This video has provided me with the impetus to do so.
BTW, I also tried using HIPS as a support with Limonene to dissolve it, but HIPS doesn't bond to PLA at all. It also dissolved really, really slowly. With the right primary filament though, it could be useful.
Thanks 😊. Oh yeah I tried it in maybe 2016 or so on a fixed dual extruder as well and it was a pretty rough. Like you I didn’t have a dryer and also the formulation was definitely not the same. It was softer making it more difficult to print and took forever to dissolve even with me agitating the part. If you give it a go let me know how it goes! I have used hips but primarily as a primary material. I know it is most commonly used with abs but since it is a styrene like abs I was told it changes the chemical commotion of the abs. Which makes sense since the dlimonene is dissolving hips. Sr30 works well for abs but unfortunately is a propriety filament owned my Stratasys. I got to use it on a Makerbot though and was pretty impressed.
Also on mobile so apologies for typos.
What size nozzle did you use for this? Sorry for the n00b question. Im in learning mode. Great channel and very helpful vids by the way. Thanks!
good note about retraction distance
This is exactly why i want bamboo lab ams and pip :)
Sweet vid as always. Question? What other uses would one use PVA for (beside support) ?????
You can use it when you want part of your model to be soluble in water. Imagine a PLA dinosaur printed inside a PVA egg. It could be fun for kids to drop the egg in water and see it dissolve. Apparently laundry detergent pods are made of PVA, so there may be applications in prototyping packaging with 3D printing as well. You wouldn't want to use PVA for anything that needs to last, because it will absorb water from the air and get soft over time.
I am interested in getting this printer for the sake of being able to use disolvable supports, though I have read mixed reviews on it. Is there alot of things/issues you had had to tweek on this printer to get it working well for getting good dual material prints with disolvable supports? If there were alot of adjustments, would it be possible for you to make a video showing that?
Aww I want to see someone get it to work with interface layers, PVA has been a nightmare
MS nothing but clogged on my Ender 5 plus
Is there any way you can evaporate the water and recover the PVA ?
If I was to of left my PVA out for to long and it absorbed to much moisture. Would the dryer help “repair” the PVA? 2:40
would sous vide dissolve it faster?
Anyone know the articulated snake model he printed in the micro Swiss ad?
Do you think PVA can be used with the Bambu X1 Carbon and AMS? Website says so but your experience is probably the true gauge. I am thinking PVA without active dryer while printing.
Ngl, I made my idex because incompatible plastics for supports, for example I print a lot of petg w/cheap af pla supports. The multi color use just a bonus.
Do u make custom 3d files with complex curves
I'm wondering how hard it would be to attach 2 Creality Sprite direct drive extruders side-by-side, change or modify the board and firmware, and print 2-filaments that way. You would lose one extruder width from the maximum printing width, but that's not a big deal.
That is awesome! But you didn’t mention what happens with the dissolved pva in the water ? Is there any way to get it back? Can you just throw the water away?
it's dissolved, bio based, same as in dishwasher tabs
if deesolve you can regain pva bydistillation
I keep hearing folks complain about PVA on the MMU2s... I have like a whole Kilo Ran though mine, and while not great. its still a MMU2s i have really decent luck. Prolly helps i got a sale on Monoprice PVA for 15 bucks half a kilo...
You can use ultrasonic cleaning machine to remove the PVA from the model.
Polyvinyl acetate, rather than alcohol 👍
Could you reduce the time and expense of useing PVA support material by only using PVA where the support connects to the model? In other words, use plastic for most of the support material, but where the support connects to the model you would have just a thin layer of PVA. When the PVA dissolves, the plastic supports would just fall off.
Is it necessary to print a purge tower with IDEX printers?
Typically you can get away with just a small purge in the buckets. This wastes less filament but get the material flowing again. An ooze shield is another option that primes the nozzle and prevents blobs from hitting the side of the part.
Couldn't you use PVA to make molds and such? Imagine making a shape, like a wing (aerofoil), you could wrap in fiberglass and resin, and then leave it in water so you end up with a hollow fiberglass part.
i know now dual extruder is the way to go for pva. But has anyone tried it with the bambu X1C? I wouldn't say it is impossible.
If it could be used with CF Nylon, that would be awesome.
PVA in single nozzle printers is a bad idea. I have a prusa MMU and tried printing supports for a PETG part, what ended up happening was that it would dissolve in areas where there was supposed to be PETG and the whole print just fell apart. Not recommended.
Has anyone tried this on an x1 carbon?
Great, I am from Tigtak team , are you interested in testing our special PLA+ filament?
能打印无人机吗
At 3:15 you say you don't recommend less than 2 printing heads. You never explain why. I mean I imagine contamination is possible, and obviously separate heads are better, but what does someone with a single head risk using PVA?
How fast can you print with it
He said, 'That's not why I'm here.' He ran 60 PLA and 40 PVA to get off the ground, Crawling and Walking. Running is individual to every machine situation right down to environment factors (temp and humidity) and exact filament handling (Bowden/direct hotbox/not.) And that's with everything else working perfectly. Typically one would run through the full set of filament tuning tests for both to get best results.
because the pva is so much more expensive it makes sense to be able to make only the top last few layers of the supports to be pva, with most of the supports being pla. is that something any slicer supports yet?
Watch till the end 😊
Why do you set the bed temperature to 60 for PLA? Bambu Labs sets the default bed temperature for PLA to 35.
35 doesn’t seem like enuf
Best with PVA is not water solvable it's simply that it don't stick to the PLA and you just get nice clean surfaces where support has been. Just breaking it off.
What do you mean "PVA is not water solvable"?
Why would a company based in the US be named MicroSwiss?
You make no mention of the size of the Wham Bam you're using. They currently do not make a PEX build plate that fits the Sovol SV04. What size are you using, as the SV04 is 310x320. I wish you haven't just glossed over it so fast, as getting projects off the standard Sovol build plate is next to impossible, and it'd be nice not to have to destroy the build plate cover or the project itself.
I used the 320 x 310 👍
@@ModBotArmy Mucho Thanks! I love this Sovol printer ... I've had so many others I've lost count. Outstanding print quality.
If you want "easy" views, print a skull in normal filament and a face around it in PVA and then melt the face off
PVA Material is the absolute worst
Use BVOH or similar
Bvoh is far better than pva
"I'll have the linked modell in the description"
So where is it besides your affilates?!!
Hate it so much when people talk BS
Link added. Next time try to be less rude. I am only a human and do my best. A simple “hey I think you forgot the link” would have been sufficient.
Would it be possible for you to yell a little less (especially at the beginning of sentences)? Much obliged.
😣 I think the gain on my mic may have jumped up one. I noticed some peaking that normally isn’t there.
PVA is insanely overpriced, it's literally elmer's glue.