This is the best breakdown/recreation of Ed’s sound I’ve ever heard. The DI theory is spot on IMO. There was always that smooth, consistent distortion in his sound that was always present. I too described it as synthesized and could never achieve it. I can really hear it on Diver Down album, and at the beginning of Drop Dead Legs. Fantastic work!
It's that chorus he added to his sound round that time. I think of classic Eddie with phase then he switched to chorus during Diver Down. That's prob one of the main things you was referring to being smooth is most likely when Eddie added chorus. It really does sound smooth. I seen someone commented the chorus didn't sound as full as the original Marshall phase 78 combo but I like both Era sounds
@johnnycab8986 yea I had a 79 jmp 100w The first set of tubes were 6550. It was good but really wanted the el34 sound... more bark and less bite. But then went back to the 6550's
It always drives it home for me when I see someone with killer chops like you _concentrating hard_ to play Ed's stuff and then I remember standing watching him, plus all the concert footage of there, and he's playing while running and jumping and/or hardly paying attention to his hands! Add to that he was often loaded or ganked on stage and the man was literally 'super natural'.
I got my first rig at 15 in 1977. It was a 65 Fender Showman head which I ran through a Marshall 8X10 cabinet. Someone had wired the two channels together along w a master volume which they stuck in one of the 1/4 jack holes. That thing absolutely SCREAMED. Plug straight into the amp, crank it up and the gain was otherworldly.
@@qua7771 Yep. 50 watt Marshall 1986 bass heads offer great versatility. They're hotter than a Fender Tweed bassman but not as hot as their 1987 50 watt guitar heads. You can drive them into JMP territory with the right dist pedal. The extended lows are magic when you roll your guitar volume back. They clean up very nicely.
I'm a session guy in LA. I work regularly with a producer who was an assistant staff engineer at Amigo in the early 80s. He swears to me me that Ed was using a Fender amp when VH was at Amigo.
That’s really interesting, Diver Down did have some cleaner tracks which might also account for the fender. Bet your friend has some great stories about the sessions.🤘🤘
@@martinsmith4123Have you ever considered looking at what speakers Eddie was using. This is where his tone lies in my opinion. Nice playing too bud, and you sound awesome
This is dead close to Ed’s tone, man; what’s more it doesn’t require $10.000 worth of vintage amplifiers or anything. Some real clever ideas here, and great playing, BTW. Thanks for an interesting and illuminating video.
Well the Marshall Plexi was based on the 1959 Fender Bassman, and even now Fender is making all thier normal chanels based on the Bassman bass chanel. The real difference is the Power tube and transformer output and extended high end with the Presence. So yea you could make a Fender sound like it, youll need like an SD1
@@doc_matterfirst time I saw it was on the deluxe reverb custom, they made the normal channel with the tone stack after the first preamp tubes, as opposed to the black face and newer practice of putting the tone controls first before the preamp
That’s a righteous sound, brother Martin! Thanks for sweating the details, then sharing the results with us. “Ain’t Talking ‘Bout Love” gave me goosebumps.
That is scary close well done sir! The one thing that really stood out to me is the pick scrape/swipe. The swipe sounds powerful like on his recordings. I think I've heard about every rendition on TH-cam and none of them have that! You are definitely sliding into home plate with this. That subtle accent is right up there with how the chords bloom.Nice!
This is incredible! It takes someone who can really play guitar, and loves the early Van Halen guitar sound, and has the skills of an engineer, and knowledge of a producer, and Most importantly, has great ears, to figure this out. Martin, you have all this! As always, the sound is what is most important. As you demonstrated and dialed in the sound you were looking to show us, my ears went right back to what I first heard on VH1 in 1978. This video is a major milestone in the analysis and decoding of the Brown Sound!
If you have a sister named Lisa then when I was just a young 15 year old I visited her in her house in Long Island and you were in your bedroom practicing
@@JohnnyRoggio yeah I remember we came and we were in the kitchen and me and my friend Jimmy were visiting Lisa and her friend. I forget the girl's name it was her best friend at the time a white girl maybe Margot, whose father worked with computers and had an apartment in Manhattan.ok, so suddenly we hear this killer guitar playing coming from one of the rooms. And my friend Jimmy who plays guitar was like oh my God that guy's incredible
My favorite guitar song was back in the days of the 70s when I heard Manfred Mann playing Blinded by the Light..the second half of the song had this wah pedal washed distortion sound with delay that just mesmerized me for life.
Ed used his Bandmaster as a practice amp in his bedroom. He went out of the auxiliary output which technically should have blown the amp up but for whatever reason did not. He said he could get distortion at a very low volume using this method. However this amp sounded NOTHING like the Marshall brown sound. The bandmaster was the amp that he used to write most of the material for the first 3 albums. There is another video on TH-cam of him practicing at his house in 1974, that is the bandmaster. It sounds like a Pignose.
@@CS_Murphy_R9 I didn’t know that was a tape deck. There was an old interview in a guitar magazine that had a picture of the Bandmaster and Edward explained how he used it in his bedroom to write the early VH material. When I heard that 1974 video I assumed it was the Bandmaster.
@@chrisjones8592 His childhood friend named Terry Kilgore is the person the info came from. He said that Ed plugged right into the RCA in's of a old tape deck when they were real young,
Fantastic, the more I listen to Edward the more I hear Michael’s awesome bass lines, even on slower stuff like little dreamer the bass and the choir sounds just perfect 😍
Man that sounds so good! The tone, the playing, Spot on!! would love to hear the "Panama" breakdown section (after the solo) through these EVH rigs. I find that kind of rolled off flubby/wooly tone is so hard to nail.
All us tone chaser EVH aficionados, have to admit - that is holy shit 98% THE sound. He was always trying to keep his secrets with everything right to the end. I still think that he did not divulge any of his secrets. This here, was a very basic setup of gear that was not modified, and was readily and commonly available, everywhere during the 1970's. I mean, holy shit you are nailing it.
Man you make a great case for the DI theory. It’s spot on in regards to the air that’s missing with just speakers. And it’s not the kind of air you can grab with an eq. Fascinating stuff.
What a great video! Very insightful! Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us, Martin! To top it all off, it sounds so, so good and the playing is just perfect! To get back on topic: Those vintage Fender circuit designs are very close to the vintage Marshalls and, knowing that Ed liked 6CA7 (EL34 with 6L6 qualities) tubes in his plexi, he might as well have used a cranked Fender. Letting the DI signal through is also an interesting idea, really fills that "JBL" gap that seems present with most greenback-only recordings.
I've never used a profiler, I can't imagine it would be able would capture that and reproduce it exactly with all the nuances, reverb, etc. Am I wrong?
It can do anything but time based effects. So, if there is really "bloom" as he suggests, that will not be recreated. The algos convert an input signal to an output signal and do a fine job of it. All the immediate nuances will be recreated though.@@donnievazquez3319
Great video! 😊 This confirms what I do with my low budget home practice rig: two modeling amps mixed together to make one decent sound. Plus an Epiphone korina as to boot!
The 2 best amps I ever owned were a 1964 Fender Temolux and a 1983 Fender/Rivera Concert II head. I used them together, the Tremolux thru a Marshall 4-12 and the Concert into fender 2-12 it came with. I miss that rig.
One reason to overemphasize the treble while tracking to tape is that the eventual dialing back of the treble to more or less bringing the signal back to normal will have the benefit of reducing the tape hiss of the track somewhat.
Martin, Superb Analysis & Breakdown of the Many Layers and Subtle Nuances of Sir Edward's Elusive and Much Sought After "Brown Sound" Brilliant! Liked & Subscribed 🤘🏼
I was just thoroughly entertained for the last 30 minutes viewing your video. Like some of the others that have left comments, I really think you’re onto something with the addition of the DI.
Biggest mistake I ever made was selling a Fender Bassman head I had got for $350 and traded it in for a Marshall TSL602. I was chasing that Marshall overdrive but didn't realize that I was playing the Bassman wrong. You get the best overdrive sound but just cranking every knob and using the volume on your guitar. The guy in guitarcenter showed me after I already did the trade and he was testing that my amp worked.
Martin!! You as close as anyone that I've heard ... your playing helps as well. Cheers and thnx. There's a guy from Canada Jacob Deraps who is crazy good. His tone is super clean and the kid is working hard. I'm sure you'll respect it. Thnx for your work. It's awesome.
Hang "Em High has to be one the "funnest" solo's to play. Amazing recreation. Also, all the Bandmaster stuff now swirling around is crazy especially since, while Ed talked some about it, most of his praise was almost always about the mystical Marshall. Really surprise the slaving angle hasn't picked up more love...I think you solved that aspect of the VH sound.
Hi Martin, just listening on the tablet; to my ears this is as close as you've come. Your videos are very well executed, informative and entertaining. Keep giving that Beato chap a run for his money! Thank you for all of your hard work.😊
I read somewhere Eddie Van Halen was a huge fan of Montrose and Ronnie Montrose used a tweed bandmaster for their self titled album, which sounded amazing. I always remembered thinking to myself when listening to The Captain and Me, Who’s Next, and Montrose that these tones (all bandmaster) had a “brown” character similar to Eddies tone to come in the following years. I think Eddie took these tones and ran with them by innovating and inspiring a new generation of sound for decades to come
I think this is correct. It was a tweed bandmaster that is completely different than blackface. I heard Eddie wanted the Rock Candy sound from the first Montrose album.
@@martinsmith4123 I think the tweed bandmaster was the only documented amp for that album so I would assume so. Lots of the riffs on that record sound very Marshally though
Signal chain: Guitar with vintage Ibanez Super 70 humbucker in bridge --> Icarus Boost set for slight boost --> Fender BF Tremolux amp normal channel with bright switch off, volume and treble full, bass 4, feedback switch off --> BRAY LO-1 Line-Out Box --> line out to graphic EQ pedal (set for mid cut) --> Groove Tubes Trio Preamp mean channel set to middle gain level, midrange EQ backed off a touch --> Groove Tubes Dual 75 Power Amp using one channel with 6L6 Sylvania tubes amp set to stun presence set to middle --> cab with 4 Celestion greenbacks miced two different ways and blended. DI output on power amp signal also taken to desk as a second channel and blended. I wonder how many EVH tone-chasers over the years would have bought Fender amps instead of Marshall if this had been more widely known?
Bone Stock Bandmaster into Bone Stock '68 Superlead could definitely get the job done now that we see the Pro Level Processing Strategy. '63 Blonde Bandmasters have more mids than the Blackface and sound killer on their own. Never heard one into a Superlead, but I want to now! Another Vid set to Stun, with more Groovy Jams. Nice Work Martin \m/
Nearly every single amp manufacturer, including Marshall had its beginnings in modifying Fender amps. This really shouldn’t be surprising to anyone that it would come into play here either. Great stuff by the way 🤘
The Internet is full of information about through what Eddie played, early photos of his cabs (In one of the photos we see David Lee Roth sitting on the cab with JBL D120Fs at the top and Greenbacks at the bottom), photos of his amp (it was his 1968 Marshall Super Lead 100W, untouched, completely stock except the bright cap, Jose admitted that he never modded Eddie's amp and also Eddie set all controls at 10 except the Bass channel because he was plugged into the Treble channel, he also had a Variac set to 90v which lowered the headroom of the amp and this trick added more distortion because the amp was dropped down to 50W, also his signal went through his Echoplex EP-3 which added a little bit more gain because of the preamp), interviews from people close to him. Also the words of Dave Friedman, Sunset Sound video (Van Halen Never Before Heard Outtakes/Alternate Endings & The Room Mics For "Eruption". Sunset Sound from 8:39), videos of Jim Gaustad, Pete Thorn and their Deep Dives also with the photos. I even found separate JBL and Greenback tracks. As stated on the forum, they were shared by Dave Friedman. Also the topic called The Final Word About EVH’s Super Lead? and also the two photos of his Plexi standing in the museum or maybe in the 5150 studio with a short interview on the image where it is written that it was heard on all 9 albums. Also the consoles in Sunset Sound were custom, they were modded from the start and to this day. There is a Sunsed Sound Reverb plugin; everything is written about the studio in the presentation on the website. Great plugin and can give you that iconic reverb. Marshall was copied from a Fender Bassman so it is quite possible to be confused. Still a good video, it’s nice that people don’t forget about such a great guitarist and are still looking for his tone, even though it’s 2024 and 46 years have passed since the release of the first album. He loved experimenting with equipment and was never afraid to make changes to seemingly iconic amplifiers that ordinary people would be afraid to touch, not even to do modifications. So he won't mind if we experiment!
Don't forget the amp was re biased to use the variac. It was biased around 80 at Wall current which would melt down quickly but when the variac went down to 90 volts, it brought the bias down around 50 which is correct
Fantastic video with loads of information. In addition to Eddie being a brilliant musician, a big part of him was a curious crazy scientist. Obviously he loved it and never took any aspect of his sound for granted. That's inspiring.
This comes up a bit. It’s a classic Ed ism. He’s said it way more times about his guitar sound. You can hear him talking about that with Jas Obretch on my second video. th-cam.com/video/p4_Mzn13dOM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=K07_COiPvYwdw1h8
Outstanding! The DI frequency is an interesting add to the mix - not over the top but there. Donn Landee - supra-genius! That bloom at the end...I have a theory... it's Ed playing unbelievably loud and standing in the area for the pickup to get some of that 'loud' in the overall sound. Hat tip to Jim Gaustad as well. You both are letting us look behind the sound creation of a musical legend. Appreciated!
Here in Argentina there is a band Divididos. A power trio. Called the steamroller of rock. The guitarist and singer almost always uses fender showmasters and marshall cabs. Sounds huge
Hello! I'm new to your channel. I'm here because someone referenced you/this video on the Fractal Audio forum. I Love your attention to detail! It really matters. Love your playing & tones!!!
Thanks Martin, really fascinating and beyond interesting. The more I listened to you , the more I am convinced you have nailed the missing piece of the puzzle . Audibly its there . The d.i. idea also seems highly likely . Back to the start to watch it again. Aces !!!
Your'e very welcome Martin , thank you for the fabulous content and planning in your videos..... I really am fascinated how Edward was so far ahead of others , at such an young age ,as well as writing Hang 'em High when he did.... Very well done nailing that too . Its on my list to get the solo ...seems a tricky one - aren't they all . @@martinsmith4123
In the 70s I bought a 62 fender bassman top and single 12” cab . Even then I was stunned when I plugged in my fender mustang and the sound it made . As a Marshall player I today , that was a Marshall with fender babges
In high school (82-86) was chasing Eddie’s sound like a lot were at the time. Word was he used Marshall amp and Duncan pups…sometime in the 11th grade I got frustrated and started looking for “my own” tone and switched to a Dimarzio SD, Fender 12” tube (don’t remember which) dialed in the gain at around 8.5 and voila!, I sounded more Eddie than ever before and everyone used to tell me that! Tap Harmonic’s leapt w such ease too! Go figure…fun times 💪
Eddie also used an MXR eq pedal and lowered some of the high-end bright sounds with that, as well as taking out some of the boomy bass sound. He liked the bottom end tight.
My understanding of his sound was he ran a variac through a Plexi to drive the plate voltage through the roof. That said Ed would have sounded like himself through a Monoprice amp.
Actually I think (Not to sound like contrarian TH-cam guy) the part about the plate voltage being raised is actually not true and EVH started this rumor himself in an interview, which led to people trying to copy that technique which damaged their amps and supposedly he felt very guilty about it later. From what I’ve read it seems he was attempting to keep volume manageable by lowering the voltage instead, which lowered headroom and meant more distortion without as much output volume.
Hi Martin , to support your theory even more ,when listening to Fools , as Alex and Edward come in together - Ed playing chords , those chords ( starts on A) really do bloom - to my ears more anyway . Keep up the excellent work. You are creating some of the best content around EVH , ever . A1 !!!
Thanks for uploading these videos, they are very interesting. An easy way to get a basic 'brown sound' at home is to use any modern Marshall amp with all controls set somewhere between 5 to 7 and an overdrive pedal with the gain set low and the volume set high. Add a touch or reverb. This will get you there or thereabouts. To refine the tone, use a delay pedal with an input volume (such as a Space Echo or Memory Man), crank this to 8 or 9. A clean boost pedal set at around 3 or 4 will achieve similar results. For the final touch, use an EQ pedal to shape the mids, if required
Dont forget Great studio engineering, and multiple variously positioned recording mics. Even one in the hallway outside the studio room from what I hear.... VH 1 is the epitome of EVH's manipulation of his sound, gear, wall voltage reduction with variacs?, and solid pure talent. A serious player with talent and vision. Dont forget Reverb in abundance. You have achieved a GREAT sound homage.
I’ve subscribed. EVH is one of my massive inspirations (as I think he is to almost everyone) and this sort of tone chasing I love. The closest I can get on my budget is a 5150 iconic half stack and a homemade EVH black and white which doesn’t get me that close but it’s close enough for me. The sounds your getting are incredible
I like your theory and thought process. You also have a very nice voice for the type of platform, so I subbed, hoping you continue your passage, and continue to offer suggestions that give me, something to think about.
Woooow... your journey into Brown Sound is fascinating. So hidden details, so useful informations, great technical skill make your videos true gems... Sir, and you've got a really good hand, on top of everything. Thank you so much for sharing all this.. Greetings from Italy.
KILLER rendition of high em high !!!!!! Seen many good players , hack it up but that was sweet. Plus one of my fav EVH tunes , your tone picking and phrasing/ rhythm. Aces 💥
Maybe-The "brown sound" idea originated when Fair Warning was released. Coincidentally, the album cover was "brown". He was pushing the gain to the extreme on that album.
Martin, you absolutely crush the dissection of all things EVH, and make it so easy. Not to mention you rip on the instrument. Refreshing to see such a simple breakdown of the greatest, innovative and transformative rock guitarist of all time! Cheers mate 🥂✨
Haha, brilliant! -what are the odds we're watching this channel in a couple years time and we're hearing perfect brown sound delivered from a fretless mandolin plugged into a used gym sock slaved into an overripe tomato, plugged into a Vietnamese market loudhailer horn, gently massaged with a plugin of the Taj Mahal's front lawn?
I've been searching on how to reproduce that sound for a couple of years and I agree that the DI was a part of his sound. I think the JBL was there to reproduce those little highs in a live situation. The JBL will gives more body but some phasing issues will appear. Maybe it was there also to widen the sound.
Allen!! Helping the =V//= community for years and years now…👏🏻 Thank 🫵🏻 Martin for all of your work indeed- and for all who have currently been delving into all of this wonderful sound scapes and discussions - and giving their time and energy for everyone’s benefit! The list is getting longer- 😉
I had a bandmaster one time that sounded just like Eddy van Halen. Every note was glorious and sparkly and floated around in different directions like i had a phaser turned on. Infinite sustain just plugged straight into the amp with no effects. Bright, intense overdrive distortion. Then one day i was looking in the back, and one of the power tubes was about to fall out so i pushed it back in. It sounded like a fender tube amp from then on out. Nothing like a pissed off marshall. I even tried pulling my power tubes slightly out to recreate that sound and never could. Lol.
Sylvania 6CA7 in a Marshall instead of the EL34 is the key. And there are photos of the JBL's loaded in his cabs from the VH1 sessions at Sunset Sounds.
No there aren’t any pictures of JBL cabs at sunset VH1. The pic of Dave atop one (with broken foot) is VH2 and there’s still no evidence he ever recorded them. But the Sylvania’s are a nice valve. Does it turn a stock variac’d plexi into VH1 though…🤘🤘🤘
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This is the best breakdown/recreation of Ed’s sound I’ve ever heard. The DI theory is spot on IMO. There was always that smooth, consistent distortion in his sound that was always present. I too described it as synthesized and could never achieve it. I can really hear it on Diver Down album, and at the beginning of Drop Dead Legs. Fantastic work!
🤘🤘🤘
It's that chorus he added to his sound round that time. I think of classic Eddie with phase then he switched to chorus during Diver Down. That's prob one of the main things you was referring to being smooth is most likely when Eddie added chorus. It really does sound smooth. I seen someone commented the chorus didn't sound as full as the original Marshall phase 78 combo but I like both Era sounds
Those fender heads were effectively Marshall’s, but a bit brighter due to the 6L6s. The 6L6s have considerably more spank than an EL84
You mean el34s not el84s?
@johnnycab8986 yea I had a 79 jmp 100w
The first set of tubes were 6550. It was good but really wanted the el34 sound... more bark and less bite. But then went back to the 6550's
It would be nice of Wolfgang would make a documentary or at least a coffee table book about all of Ed's gear and studio. Please.
@@chopperdeath absolutely 👍
It always drives it home for me when I see someone with killer chops like you _concentrating hard_ to play Ed's stuff and then I remember standing watching him, plus all the concert footage of there, and he's playing while running and jumping and/or hardly paying attention to his hands!
Add to that he was often loaded or ganked on stage and the man was literally 'super natural'.
Totally agree. As George Lynch said, he practiced till it was in his bones 🦴 🤘🤘
I got my first rig at 15 in 1977. It was a 65 Fender Showman head which I ran through a Marshall 8X10 cabinet. Someone had wired the two channels together along w a master volume which they stuck in one of the 1/4 jack holes. That thing absolutely SCREAMED. Plug straight into the amp, crank it up and the gain was otherworldly.
It would be nice to play through that again. Pretty much a hotrodded JTM.
@@qua7771 Yep. 50 watt Marshall 1986 bass heads offer great versatility. They're hotter than a Fender Tweed bassman but not as hot as their 1987 50 watt guitar heads. You can drive them into JMP territory with the right dist pedal. The extended lows are magic when you roll your guitar volume back. They clean up very nicely.
@@GTX1123 Cool. Nice to know.
I'm a session guy in LA. I work regularly with a producer who was an assistant staff engineer at Amigo in the early 80s. He swears to me me that Ed was using a Fender amp when VH was at Amigo.
That’s really interesting, Diver Down did have some cleaner tracks which might also account for the fender. Bet your friend has some great stories about the sessions.🤘🤘
@@martinsmith4123Have you ever considered looking at what speakers Eddie was using. This is where his tone lies in my opinion. Nice playing too bud, and you sound awesome
Sounds good
Great video and Audio. When I close my eyes I picture a 50watt Marshall head with 6L6s and a RAT pedal?
This is dead close to Ed’s tone, man; what’s more it doesn’t require $10.000 worth of vintage amplifiers or anything. Some real clever ideas here, and great playing, BTW. Thanks for an interesting and illuminating video.
Well the Marshall Plexi was based on the 1959 Fender Bassman, and even now Fender is making all thier
normal chanels based on the Bassman bass chanel. The real difference is the Power tube and transformer
output and extended high end with the Presence. So yea you could make a Fender sound like it, youll need like an SD1
💯…flat out with the tone at 11 o’clock
What exactly do you mean by" fender is making all there normal channels based on the bassman bass channel" ?
@@doc_matterfirst time I saw it was on the deluxe reverb custom, they made the normal channel with the tone stack after the first preamp tubes, as opposed to the black face and newer practice of putting the tone controls first before the preamp
@@JoeGagan😂 That's just that amp. Fender only did that on the 68 silver face amps.
That’s a righteous sound, brother Martin! Thanks for sweating the details, then sharing the results with us. “Ain’t Talking ‘Bout Love” gave me goosebumps.
Very kind Bill 🤘🤘
That is scary close well done sir! The one thing that really stood out to me is the pick scrape/swipe. The swipe sounds powerful like on his recordings. I think I've heard about every rendition on TH-cam and none of them have that! You are definitely sliding into home plate with this. That subtle accent is right up there with how the chords bloom.Nice!
Thank you 🤘🤘🤘
This is incredible! It takes someone who can really play guitar, and loves the early Van Halen guitar sound, and has the skills of an engineer, and knowledge of a producer, and Most importantly, has great ears, to figure this out. Martin, you have all this! As always, the sound is what is most important. As you demonstrated and dialed in the sound you were looking to show us, my ears went right back to what I first heard on VH1 in 1978. This video is a major milestone in the analysis and decoding of the Brown Sound!
Thank you! Kindly 🤘🤘
As a Van Halen Tribute Player & Fan, I salute you for a job very well done. Brilliant !!!
Thank you Johnny 🤘🤘
If you have a sister named Lisa then when I was just a young 15 year old I visited her in her house in Long Island and you were in your bedroom practicing
@@Frankcruzmusic Wow, That's crazy Frank. Yes it's me ... :)
@@JohnnyRoggio yeah I remember we came and we were in the kitchen and me and my friend Jimmy were visiting Lisa and her friend. I forget the girl's name it was her best friend at the time a white girl maybe Margot, whose father worked with computers and had an apartment in Manhattan.ok, so suddenly we hear this killer guitar playing coming from one of the rooms. And my friend Jimmy who plays guitar was like oh my God that guy's incredible
@@Frankcruzmusic that's amazing brother. That means we go back, a long long time. Hope all is well & you are still Rockin ... !!!
My favorite guitar song was back in the days of the 70s when I heard Manfred Mann playing Blinded by the Light..the second half of the song had this wah pedal washed distortion sound with delay that just mesmerized me for life.
Same. Loved that solo.
That is a great tone on that one.
You got it close enough that no one will notice the difference...and there is not much!!!! Good job!!
absolute over the top video. My mind is reeling from the amount of in-depth detail that you shared. thanks so much.
Your "Hang 'Em High" was killer, dude! :D
Ed used his Bandmaster as a practice amp in his bedroom. He went out of the auxiliary output which technically should have blown the amp up but for whatever reason did not. He said he could get distortion at a very low volume using this method. However this amp sounded NOTHING like the Marshall brown sound. The bandmaster was the amp that he used to write most of the material for the first 3 albums. There is another video on TH-cam of him practicing at his house in 1974, that is the bandmaster. It sounds like a Pignose.
There are photos of him onstage with bandmasters 🤘🤘
That audio of Edward playing in 74 is not his bandmaster. It is him plugged into a tape deck.
@@martinsmith4123 I have seen pictures of them on stage but I believe he used them as back up amps if the Marshall went out. Who knows?
@@CS_Murphy_R9 I didn’t know that was a tape deck. There was an old interview in a guitar magazine that had a picture of the Bandmaster and Edward explained how he used it in his bedroom to write the early VH material. When I heard that 1974 video I assumed it was the Bandmaster.
@@chrisjones8592 His childhood friend named Terry Kilgore is the person the info came from. He said that Ed plugged right into the RCA in's of a old tape deck when they were real young,
Fantastic, the more I listen to Edward the more I hear Michael’s awesome bass lines, even on slower stuff like little dreamer the bass and the choir sounds just perfect 😍
Wow! Wow! Wow!!! Thanks for your hard work.
Glad you enjoyed it! 🤘🤘🤘
Man that sounds so good! The tone, the playing, Spot on!! would love to hear the "Panama" breakdown section (after the solo) through these EVH rigs. I find that kind of rolled off flubby/wooly tone is so hard to nail.
Wow!! Very convincing Martin! Man! You can really rock those older VH riffs!!! Thanks for sharing your experiences and results!!
Your ear and your feel are phenomenal .. ... that Hang'EmHigh bit was 🇬🇧spectacular 🇬🇧. cheers from USA
@@jeffreycase9497 thank you kindly brother from another mother country 🤘🤘🤘
Hang 'Em High was epic, Martin. Most players cant play that riff. I know I can't! Lol. You nailed it.
It’s a leap of faith every time 🤘🤘🤘
Agree - epic. Speaking of obsession, this song and the impossible tempo is mine. You nailed it.
Fantastic Journey into the Brown sound! Thank you very much(I still have goose bumps!)
All us tone chaser EVH aficionados, have to admit - that is holy shit 98% THE sound. He was always trying to keep his secrets with everything right to the end. I still think that he did not divulge any of his secrets. This here, was a very basic setup of gear that was not modified, and was readily and commonly available, everywhere during the 1970's. I mean, holy shit you are nailing it.
Thank you 🤘🤘🤘
Man you make a great case for the DI theory. It’s spot on in regards to the air that’s missing with just speakers. And it’s not the kind of air you can grab with an eq.
Fascinating stuff.
Bro, nice job on Hang 'em High!! Such a musical piece on the guitar...really one of my fav's. The solo is just brilliant too.
I believe you have unraveled the mystery.
Well done.
What a great video! Very insightful! Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us, Martin! To top it all off, it sounds so, so good and the playing is just perfect! To get back on topic: Those vintage Fender circuit designs are very close to the vintage Marshalls and, knowing that Ed liked 6CA7 (EL34 with 6L6 qualities) tubes in his plexi, he might as well have used a cranked Fender. Letting the DI signal through is also an interesting idea, really fills that "JBL" gap that seems present with most greenback-only recordings.
Very cool 🤘🤘
Geez that sounds spot on IMO! Great video and really nice playing.
Why don't we ask Michael Anthony what amps were used at the recording sessions? He has a good memory and is honest.
Great! Would love to get a ToneX capture of that.
I've never used a profiler, I can't imagine it would be able would capture that and reproduce it exactly with all the nuances, reverb, etc. Am I wrong?
It can do anything but time based effects. So, if there is really "bloom" as he suggests, that will not be recreated. The algos convert an input signal to an output signal and do a fine job of it. All the immediate nuances will be recreated though.@@donnievazquez3319
Nailing it right there..... Thanks for the nice deep dive! Love it
Great stuff as always.
I really love your vids. The search for the holy grail of tone.
Martin thanks for putting this video together 🔥 and yes it’s all there, the saturation, sizzle, sag. Sum of all the parts is the key.
Right on! 🤘🤘
Absolutely entertaining ... keep em coming. Very cool!
Thank you so much.
Great video 😊
Great video! 😊 This confirms what I do with my low budget home practice rig: two modeling amps mixed together to make one decent sound. Plus an Epiphone korina as to boot!
The 2 best amps I ever owned were a 1964 Fender Temolux and a 1983 Fender/Rivera Concert II head. I used them together, the Tremolux thru a Marshall 4-12 and the Concert into fender 2-12 it came with. I miss that rig.
One reason to overemphasize the treble while tracking to tape is that the eventual dialing back of the treble to more or less bringing the signal back to normal will have the benefit of reducing the tape hiss of the track somewhat.
Wow I think you’re there. The DI sound mixed in takes it to the finish line 👏👏
Thank you man 🤘🤘
Martin, Superb Analysis & Breakdown of the Many Layers and Subtle Nuances of Sir Edward's Elusive and Much Sought After "Brown Sound" Brilliant!
Liked & Subscribed 🤘🏼
Really nice job the tone sounds spot on to my ears. great playing too!
I was just thoroughly entertained for the last 30 minutes viewing your video.
Like some of the others that have left comments, I really think you’re onto something with the addition of the DI.
Sounds amazing, Martin! As does your playing as well!
Thanks man, privilege to have you here 🤘🤘🤘
@@martinsmith4123 You bet. The attitude you have, IMO, is exactly Ed found his amazing tones...not by luck, but tenacious trial and error....love it!
Biggest mistake I ever made was selling a Fender Bassman head I had got for $350 and traded it in for a Marshall TSL602. I was chasing that Marshall overdrive but didn't realize that I was playing the Bassman wrong. You get the best overdrive sound but just cranking every knob and using the volume on your guitar. The guy in guitarcenter showed me after I already did the trade and he was testing that my amp worked.
Great work, tones, and playing! Many roads can lead to the same place.🎶
Martin!! You as close as anyone that I've heard ... your playing helps as well. Cheers and thnx. There's a guy from Canada Jacob Deraps who is crazy good. His tone is super clean and the kid is working hard. I'm sure you'll respect it. Thnx for your work. It's awesome.
@@Leafs5150 cheers man, super cool 🤘🤘🤘. Jacob is awesome 🍾
Dude, your vids are nailing these early VH tones! Your chops definitely are the cherry on top as well 💪
The best I’ve ever heard. Great job👍👍
Hang "Em High has to be one the "funnest" solo's to play. Amazing recreation. Also, all the Bandmaster stuff now swirling around is crazy especially since, while Ed talked some about it, most of his praise was almost always about the mystical Marshall. Really surprise the slaving angle hasn't picked up more love...I think you solved that aspect of the VH sound.
Thank you for watching and listening. Yes hang ‘em high is a bit comical in places isn’t it? 🤘🤘
INCREDIBLE GUITAR! Looks and sounds amazing! Thank You for sharing your tones. 👍
Hi Martin, just listening on the tablet; to my ears this is as close as you've come. Your videos are very well executed, informative and entertaining. Keep giving that Beato chap a run for his money! Thank you for all of your hard work.😊
5150 percent incredible
I read somewhere Eddie Van Halen was a huge fan of Montrose and Ronnie Montrose used a tweed bandmaster for their self titled album, which sounded amazing. I always remembered thinking to myself when listening to The Captain and Me, Who’s Next, and Montrose that these tones (all bandmaster) had a “brown” character similar to Eddies tone to come in the following years. I think Eddie took these tones and ran with them by innovating and inspiring a new generation of sound for decades to come
Interesting. I never listened to Montrose but will now 🤘🤘
I think this is correct. It was a tweed bandmaster that is completely different than blackface. I heard Eddie wanted the Rock Candy sound from the first Montrose album.
@@dvnator yes he asked Ted if he could borrow the “ Marshall” on rock candy. Was it a fender on that?
@@martinsmith4123 I think the tweed bandmaster was the only documented amp for that album so I would assume so. Lots of the riffs on that record sound very Marshally though
Signal chain: Guitar with vintage Ibanez Super 70 humbucker in bridge --> Icarus Boost set for slight boost --> Fender BF Tremolux amp normal channel with bright switch off, volume and treble full, bass 4, feedback switch off --> BRAY LO-1 Line-Out Box --> line out to graphic EQ pedal (set for mid cut) --> Groove Tubes Trio Preamp mean channel set to middle gain level, midrange EQ backed off a touch --> Groove Tubes Dual 75 Power Amp using one channel with 6L6 Sylvania tubes amp set to stun presence set to middle --> cab with 4 Celestion greenbacks miced two different ways and blended. DI output on power amp signal also taken to desk as a second channel and blended. I wonder how many EVH tone-chasers over the years would have bought Fender amps instead of Marshall if this had been more widely known?
Good work notating the chain 🤘🤘
Bone Stock Bandmaster into Bone Stock '68 Superlead could definitely get the job done now that we see the Pro Level Processing Strategy. '63 Blonde Bandmasters have more mids than the Blackface and sound killer on their own. Never heard one into a Superlead, but I want to now! Another Vid set to Stun, with more Groovy Jams. Nice Work Martin \m/
Nearly every single amp manufacturer, including Marshall had its beginnings in modifying Fender amps. This really shouldn’t be surprising to anyone that it would come into play here either. Great stuff by the way 🤘
The Internet is full of information about through what Eddie played, early photos of his cabs (In one of the photos we see David Lee Roth sitting on the cab with JBL D120Fs at the top and Greenbacks at the bottom), photos of his amp (it was his 1968 Marshall Super Lead 100W, untouched, completely stock except the bright cap, Jose admitted that he never modded Eddie's amp and also Eddie set all controls at 10 except the Bass channel because he was plugged into the Treble channel, he also had a Variac set to 90v which lowered the headroom of the amp and this trick added more distortion because the amp was dropped down to 50W, also his signal went through his Echoplex EP-3 which added a little bit more gain because of the preamp), interviews from people close to him. Also the words of Dave Friedman, Sunset Sound video (Van Halen Never Before Heard Outtakes/Alternate Endings & The Room Mics For "Eruption". Sunset Sound from 8:39), videos of Jim Gaustad, Pete Thorn and their Deep Dives also with the photos. I even found separate JBL and Greenback tracks. As stated on the forum, they were shared by Dave Friedman. Also the topic called The Final Word About EVH’s Super Lead? and also the two photos of his Plexi standing in the museum or maybe in the 5150 studio with a short interview on the image where it is written that it was heard on all 9 albums. Also the consoles in Sunset Sound were custom, they were modded from the start and to this day. There is a Sunsed Sound Reverb plugin; everything is written about the studio in the presentation on the website. Great plugin and can give you that iconic reverb.
Marshall was copied from a Fender Bassman so it is quite possible to be confused. Still a good video, it’s nice that people don’t forget about such a great guitarist and are still looking for his tone, even though it’s 2024 and 46 years have passed since the release of the first album. He loved experimenting with equipment and was never afraid to make changes to seemingly iconic amplifiers that ordinary people would be afraid to touch, not even to do modifications. So he won't mind if we experiment!
Yeah, I know the company line about JBL, stock amp etc, I’m not saying I know but I say leave no stone unturned 🤘🤘🤘
@@martinsmith4123 Still a good video and I enjoyed the final tone. I wish Eddie's legacy could live on very long. Keep rockin'!
Don't forget the amp was re biased to use the variac. It was biased around 80 at Wall current which would melt down quickly but when the variac went down to 90 volts, it brought the bias down around 50 which is correct
@@martinsmith4123the biggest mod was was a 50k mid pot instead of a 25k.
@@Bullittbl according to experts sources, likely factory installed rather than a mod.
Didn’t expect that…brilliant!
Fantastic video with loads of information.
In addition to Eddie being a brilliant musician, a big part of him was a curious crazy scientist. Obviously he loved it and never took any aspect of his sound for granted. That's inspiring.
I believe the original “brown sound” was a Ludwig snare drum on Alex’s kit. Eddie used it as a basis to describe the sound he was looking for.
True!!
This comes up a bit. It’s a classic Ed ism. He’s said it way more times about his guitar sound. You can hear him talking about that with Jas Obretch on my second video.
th-cam.com/video/p4_Mzn13dOM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=K07_COiPvYwdw1h8
True.
@@martinsmith4123…agreed…I’ve heard Eddie use the term “brown” to describe his guitar tone more often than not 👍
Outstanding! The DI frequency is an interesting add to the mix - not over the top but there. Donn Landee - supra-genius! That bloom at the end...I have a theory... it's Ed playing unbelievably loud and standing in the area for the pickup to get some of that 'loud' in the overall sound. Hat tip to Jim Gaustad as well. You both are letting us look behind the sound creation of a musical legend. Appreciated!
Thank you kindly 🤘🤘🤘
Absolutely BRILLIANT and so spot on!!! Legend status bro!!!! Glad this came across my feed. You have a new subscriber. Cheers!
Here in Argentina there is a band Divididos. A power trio. Called the steamroller of rock. The guitarist and singer almost always uses fender showmasters and marshall cabs. Sounds huge
Hello! I'm new to your channel. I'm here because someone referenced you/this video on the Fractal Audio forum. I Love your attention to detail! It really matters. Love your playing & tones!!!
Wonderful! Thanks! 🙏🏼
Glad you liked it!🤘🤘
Simply lovely! Keep doing what you’re doing 👍
sounds terrific!
🤘🤘🤘
Thanks Martin, really fascinating and beyond interesting. The more I listened to you , the more I am convinced you have nailed the missing piece of the puzzle . Audibly its there . The d.i. idea also seems highly likely . Back to the start to watch it again. Aces !!!
Awesome feedback buddy 🤘🤘
Your'e very welcome Martin , thank you for the fabulous content and planning in your videos..... I really am fascinated how Edward was so far ahead of others , at such an young age ,as well as writing Hang 'em High when he did.... Very well done nailing that too . Its on my list to get the solo ...seems a tricky one - aren't they all . @@martinsmith4123
You nailed the tone as perfectly as I’ve ever heard. Hang em high might have been a touch too dirty but it sounded phenomenal anyway
In the 70s I bought a 62 fender bassman top and single 12” cab . Even then I was stunned when I plugged in my fender mustang and the sound it made . As a Marshall player I today ,
that was a Marshall with fender babges
In high school (82-86) was chasing Eddie’s sound like a lot were at the time. Word was he used Marshall amp and Duncan pups…sometime in the 11th grade I got frustrated and started looking for “my own” tone and switched to a Dimarzio SD, Fender 12” tube (don’t remember which) dialed in the gain at around 8.5 and voila!, I sounded more Eddie than ever before and everyone used to tell me that! Tap Harmonic’s leapt w such ease too! Go figure…fun times 💪
That sounds wonderful!! Super EVH cool! Miss you Eddie! XXXOOO
Eddie also used an MXR eq pedal and lowered some of the high-end bright sounds with that, as well as taking out some of the boomy bass sound. He liked the bottom end tight.
Enjoying this Martin. I would love to see you chase down the Dann Huff and Landau 80s clean and overdriven tones sometime. All the best. Johnny
My understanding of his sound was he ran a variac through a Plexi to drive the plate voltage through the roof. That said Ed would have sounded like himself through a Monoprice amp.
Actually I think (Not to sound like contrarian TH-cam guy) the part about the plate voltage being raised is actually not true and EVH started this rumor himself in an interview, which led to people trying to copy that technique which damaged their amps and supposedly he felt very guilty about it later. From what I’ve read it seems he was attempting to keep volume manageable by lowering the voltage instead, which lowered headroom and meant more distortion without as much output volume.
@@Rickyeldiablobobby I believe I read it in Unchained By Paul Brannigan
Hi Martin , to support your theory even more ,when listening to Fools , as Alex and Edward come in together - Ed playing chords , those chords ( starts on A) really do bloom - to my ears more anyway . Keep up the excellent work. You are creating some of the best content around EVH , ever . A1 !!!
Thank you so much Rich 🤘🤘
Thanks for uploading these videos, they are very interesting. An easy way to get a basic 'brown sound' at home is to use any modern Marshall amp with all controls set somewhere between 5 to 7 and an overdrive pedal with the gain set low and the volume set high. Add a touch or reverb. This will get you there or thereabouts. To refine the tone, use a delay pedal with an input volume (such as a Space Echo or Memory Man), crank this to 8 or 9. A clean boost pedal set at around 3 or 4 will achieve similar results. For the final touch, use an EQ pedal to shape the mids, if required
Dont forget Great studio engineering, and multiple variously positioned recording mics. Even one in the hallway outside the studio room from what I hear.... VH 1 is the epitome of EVH's manipulation of his sound, gear, wall voltage reduction with variacs?, and solid pure talent. A serious player with talent and vision.
Dont forget Reverb in abundance.
You have achieved a GREAT sound homage.
I’ve subscribed. EVH is one of my massive inspirations (as I think he is to almost everyone) and this sort of tone chasing I love. The closest I can get on my budget is a 5150 iconic half stack and a homemade EVH black and white which doesn’t get me that close but it’s close enough for me. The sounds your getting are incredible
Haha, awake and subbed. This was interesting indeed. Big up, Martin Smith!
🤘🤘🤘
I like your theory and thought process. You also have a very nice voice for the type of platform, so I subbed, hoping you continue your passage, and continue to offer suggestions that give me, something to think about.
I will certainly my do my best! Thank you kindly 🤘🤘🤘
Woooow... your journey into Brown Sound is fascinating.
So hidden details, so useful informations, great technical skill make your videos true gems...
Sir, and you've got a really good hand, on top of everything.
Thank you so much for sharing all this..
Greetings from Italy.
grazie mille Carlo 🤘🤘🤘
KILLER rendition of high em high !!!!!! Seen many good players , hack it up but that was sweet. Plus one of my fav EVH tunes , your tone picking and phrasing/ rhythm. Aces 💥
Will there ever be another guitarist who can write tastiness like this ever again
Exactly. He defined tastiness 🤘🤘🤘
Maybe-The "brown sound" idea originated when Fair Warning was released. Coincidentally, the album cover was "brown". He was pushing the gain to the extreme on that album.
Sounds incredible. Leo sure got a lot of things right.
Martin, you absolutely crush the dissection of all things EVH, and make it so easy. Not to mention you rip on the instrument. Refreshing to see such a simple breakdown of the greatest, innovative and transformative rock guitarist of all time!
Cheers mate 🥂✨
Spot on! Amazing job on the tone and great playing too! 👏👏👏
Rock on!🤘
Haha, brilliant! -what are the odds we're watching this channel in a couple years time and we're hearing perfect brown sound delivered from a fretless mandolin plugged into a used gym sock slaved into an overripe tomato, plugged into a Vietnamese market loudhailer horn, gently massaged with a plugin of the Taj Mahal's front lawn?
Ok I’ll give that a go🤘🤘
And then we all start to sound exactly like Ed no matter what we play through , forever stuck with ' the curse ' of the hands ! lmao 😂
@@plexidust5101 that’d be a curse and a blessing 🤘🤘
th-cam.com/video/gu72pPSNqJQ/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
this sentence would slap at guitar comedy store, thats for sure!
I'm obsessed with The Brown Sound too.
@@mantistobogon9534 then you have good taste 🤘🤘🤘
I've been searching on how to reproduce that sound for a couple of years and I agree that the DI was a part of his sound. I think the JBL was there to reproduce those little highs in a live situation. The JBL will gives more body but some phasing issues will appear. Maybe it was there also to widen the sound.
Possibly the closest to the original sound of any video I’ve ever found on TH-cam. Unreal good.
As a tone chaser myself, I love videos like this. That said, I think EVH could have played through any guitar and any amp and still sound like EVH.
Allen!! Helping the =V//= community for years and years now…👏🏻
Thank 🫵🏻 Martin for all of your work indeed-
and for all who have currently been delving into all of this wonderful sound scapes and discussions - and giving their time and energy for everyone’s benefit!
The list is getting longer-
😉
Thank you dude 🤘🤘
I had a bandmaster one time that sounded just like Eddy van Halen. Every note was glorious and sparkly and floated around in different directions like i had a phaser turned on. Infinite sustain just plugged straight into the amp with no effects. Bright, intense overdrive distortion. Then one day i was looking in the back, and one of the power tubes was about to fall out so i pushed it back in. It sounded like a fender tube amp from then on out. Nothing like a pissed off marshall. I even tried pulling my power tubes slightly out to recreate that sound and never could. Lol.
Interesting for sure great stuff !
I would have NEVER thought of this.
Sylvania 6CA7 in a Marshall instead of the EL34 is the key. And there are photos of the JBL's loaded in his cabs from the VH1 sessions at Sunset Sounds.
No there aren’t any pictures of JBL cabs at sunset VH1. The pic of Dave atop one (with broken foot) is VH2 and there’s still no evidence he ever recorded them. But the Sylvania’s are a nice valve. Does it turn a stock variac’d plexi into VH1 though…🤘🤘🤘
@@martinsmith4123th-cam.com/video/uGSw7jB_0Kg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Cp2T_-_m20O4eMH9
I get the calming feeling of Bob Ross, but instead of painting with a brush, you're painting with your guitar. Very good stuff!
insane stuff man!! DI out mixed really does the trick for that high end sizzle everyone talks about. D120s get close but this gets closer