Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom is brilliant and I am very happy
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
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Here are my thoughts on a game that used ZELDA to remind me of why I love Zelda. If you catch my drift.
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It's absurd how not a single solution of any puzzle in this video was the same as mine.
What makes this game so awesome and fitting of zelda's wisdom!
Tbh I didn’t even know that centipede boss existed. I always just walked around the storm until I finished the game, and even then I only went there for a different heart container and a stamp lmao
As the creator of the video mentioned, this really was the perfect blend of open-ended creativity combined with perfectly designed limitations so that even with so many mechanics at your fingertips, you need to think outside the box to progress. The first couple of dungeons I was worried the game would be too easy, but the last few genuinely had me stumped for a long time during certain parts and perfectly recaptured the feeling of being a genius when you finally solve them that was a staple of the franchise for so long.
@@parkermaybe9018 I only learned when I was going for 100% and learned about the Gold Sash.
I didn’t know you could take Scorchill’s helmet off with bind, I just alternated elemental keese 😂 his solution makes so much more sense!
Thank you for pointing out how this game's sense of progression is tied to how you get echoes by exploring.
I've seen a lot of people complaining that a lot of chests in caves and dungeons boil down to simple materials and cosumables which makes exploration less rewarding... And while I do agree finding chests is usually kinda deflating (except when it's mighty crystals, always find those useful), I still believe a lot of places always have cool echoes you can get, which improves your arsenal.
Like you said, stuff like the clouds or the blocks of water kinda break the game, but you still have to work for them (specially since you actually need to enter the still world to get those). It really ballances well the open nature of the newer games with the more structured progression of the old zelda games. It's a really good compromise that I feel like the series should build upon in the future.
So why is it that the crawltula is given to you immediately? You can grab that echo and immediately access the entire map, giving access to late game echoes, and it doesn't even burn a resource.
Absolutely, one of the best rewards I got from a cave was a level 3 lizalfos. I thought it was a mini boss so when I was able to learn it I was shocked
@@Yohoat That allows for even more expression. Yes, it can give you access to late-game things early, but you still have to figure out how/where to *get* them, as well as how to use those late-game things most effectively with your limited power.
Plus, the Crawltula is really limited by needing to have vertical, unbroken walls, and it can only really go straight.
That’s kind of how I feel about TotK, fighting a strong enemy is usually about getting rare materials you can create weapons out of, there aren’t a ton of unique pre made weapons around the world, you’re given pieces to create them yourself. Getting new useful echoes is definitely the most rewarding profession in echoes of wisdom.
33:55 - Pouring resources into upgrading link’s equipment is worthwhile, actually, as he uses the equipment at the level you upgraded them to. At the start of the game, his stuff is at level 2, and when he’s first captured it goes down to level 1. And it certain helps to power his stuff back up again for the final fight.
I mentioned this in the script but I removed it. Should've gone with my gut, I knew it was true...
oh shit that's so cool!!!
@@LiamTriforce It's even possible for ling to straight-up not _have_ the bow and/or bombs if you didn't pick them up (which is possible, but very unlikely to happen by accident)
That Ganon fight I grabbed his spear with Bind and slapped him with the spinning spear.
I always forget about bind. I beat him using Wolfos because they would always circle around their target before striking, which made they perfect for getting around Ganon's trident twirling
I only realized at the end of the fight that I could do that 😂 I started to try using bind during boss fights more often after that, which did pay off, though!
Hold up, YOU CAN DO THAT????
@@fellzayel1305 You can, yeah, I'm not sure how much damage it does, but combining it with Echoes like the Ball and Chain do pretty good damage.
@@Level_Eleven I also didn't realize until the very end of the battle, but then it ended up being useful for the boss rush dream battle instead.
1:05 This can be said about quite literally every Zelda game though, and multiplied tenfold. Because the puzzle solutions are static. TOTK and BOTW actually possess the tools for players to vary their approach to combat and puzzles. However, I think in general Zelda games shouldn't be replayed so immediately after completion. This is like me replaying OOT right after beating it the first time and mulling about the puzzles being easy or repetitive. No duh, the game is static and has strict progression and tools.
I think what you want out of TOTK now are more complicated and demanding puzzles that require mastery of the mechanics, now that you know your tools well. Up to a certain point, the puzzles barring a few, aren't complicated enough to challenge the player's increasing arsenal of tools, whereby reliable solutions can be used. It's not a matter of TOTK not being "hand crafted", it's just a lack of adversity to match the exponential growth of the player's tools, which is a consequence of the open nature of the game.
One of the coolest things for me personally when it comes to replaying Zelda games is being able to speed through the puzzles using the knowledge I have. I found out this trait of myself accidentally when I was playing Link's Awakening remake while also playing the OG to compare side by side. Going through one dungeon in one game and then replaying it in another made me realize "oh damn im zooming" using the tools and knowledge I have, and that was very fun!
I think TOTK does this well because I do unironically enjoy 2nd playthroughs of both it and BOTW. The challenge become less "how do I solve this" to "how do i efficiently break this puzzle in a silly way while still solving it?" and I didn't have any problems with it . And I get the same feeling with EoW too, just in a 2D game and a lot more tools to use. TOTK got flack though because the tools you had (Zonai Devices) would take a long to make with little rewards in comparison to other easier methods (although I'd argue that theres still fun to be had in learning what is most efficient and constantly iterating beyond just the Hover Bike)
anyway thanks for letting me ramble in the reply to your comment lol
@@dataecto6135 I don’t think the tools TOTK presented were flawed in rly any aspect tbh. Probably my favourite set of abilities and options in any Zelda game. I just wish that certain things were restriction in certain areas.
I wish autobuild and free climbing was disabled in main dungeons, for instance.
This is the first top down Zelda I've beaten. That was 40 hours of pure bliss collecting everything and getting all the echoes
I think you would like The Minish Cap if you can find a way to play it
@@Tool0GT92With the Kinstones? No way.
I'd recommend Link Between Worlds, or Link to the Past. Both are absolute gems, and they both take place in the same Hyrule as Echoes of Wisdom!
@@gabe5918who says you have to do all the kinstones? The twelve or so you need to do for the story is plenty to know if you want to complete the system or not, but there's no need whatsoever to do them all. Collecting all the statues for the final heart piece is arguably worse, but you're not complaining about that. If you're a completionist, that's your problem lol 🤷🏼
@@BusinessSkrub Not a completionist, lil bro. Kinstones just suck and are annoying to find when you could be getting something else like a piece of heart itself or even just rupees.
Thank you so much for the brief acknowledgement at 5:39 that Zelda was 100% the main protagonist of Age of Calamity, even if as the punchline to a gag. It's not a game that too many people have played all the way through because of the performance problems, but I always felt it did Zelda as a character best out of anything in the series thanks to her being directly involved and getting a lot of chances to speak her mind.
Patricia Summersett hard-carried the emotional stakes of that storyline. You could hear, in her voice, a noble leader trying to hold it together for her people. Even in the loading screen narratives.
@@1_random_commenter see one of the biggest gripes I hear about BOTW and TOTK is British Zelda.
I don’t know why people hate it so much, but god do they hate it.
@@riplix20 Haven't heard that complaint from anyone myself, but if I did, I encourage them to play through Age of Calamity. IMO, that game would be 10x worse without her voice acting.
OMG! I thought I was the only one who felt that. I didn't like her moveset with the Sheikah slate so I didn't play with her for the first half of the game. Then I switched to using her as my Main after she unlocks her sealing power and between literally leveling her up and the writing it felt like such a great story for her growth in particular. I highly recommend it for anyone who wants to see her journey
The mole boss becomes easy once you know that it will bonk itself on the statues.
Was gonna say this :D and after those disappear you can spawn your own or spawn the large boulder or anything for him to bonk against. Statues and boulders also stop his sand attacks making him super easy and making you feel like a genius for figuring it out :D
Yep! I’ve heard a few complaints about this boss but right away I was like “pots. It’s the pots.”
Similarly I just realised watching this that the optional cloud boss you can grab and drag to make him fuse again. I did it the complicated way, using objects to make their paths meet xD
@@melkorWTF I don't think it works in the second one.
@@melkorWTF I don't believe you can actually, fuse does have a function in this fight though, when you grab a cloud it changes the direction of travel, so if 2 clouds are traveling in the same direction, you can make one turn around by grabbing so they can run into each other.
As a Zelda fan that likes traditional new Zelda games let's just say I'm starving the past decade since basically Link Between Worlds on 3DS was the last real traditional style classic Zelda game :/
@@NinjaxShadowXx If you haven't tried Echoes yet it feels a LOT more traditional than BotW/TotK. I love those games but they aren't Zelda games, they just wear a Zelda skin. However Echoes is much closer to the traditional experience. There are puzzle driven dungeons, plenty of enemy variety, unique ways to fight each enemy, lots of tools (echoes) to expand your arsenal and allow you to access new areas and complete new puzzles, a stronger focus on story with more traditional elements etc etc. I have so few complaints. I expected to hate feeling passive in fights, but it's quite the opposite. I'm much more involved than I ever have been in other 2D Zelda games. For how unique this game is, it remarkably captures the traditional feeling
Link between worlds was aight, it was lame as hell that any player who cuts grass like a normal person will have enough rupees to rent every item basically right away, which makes the game have a feeling of basically zero progression or reward. You have all the tools at your disposal early on and there's nothing new to learn throughout the entire game, which is the same problem that botw and totk had :/
I adored this game. The ways it honored the series past by having the goddesses back, the Deku Scrubs, both Zora types, so many classic enemies, locations, musical themes, and puzzles. I am one that would be pleased if the timeline was abandoned or forgotten going forward. I like that the pieces that make Zelda can be repurposed for the current story being told. This game made me very happy and your video makes me want to get my second playthrough wrapped up now.
20:38 - not sure if you missed it but there is a method to consistently stun the boss and open him up to attack.
Essentially you have to use one of the animal statue echoes that you learned in the dungeon, and summon it so that he rams face first into it. That’ll get him to fall belly-up and you can get some hits in. Not unlike the other bosses.
Other than that note, really enjoyed this video Liam. Cheers
In the German translation, Minister Lefte and General Wright are Minister Sinster and General Dex. Which does the same thing, but sliiiightly more subtle.
Minister Sinister is such a good name
Kind of an odd name change considering Minister Lefte is far from being a sinister character
Let's not forget that Grezzo also made a great Zelda non-Zelda game called Ever Oasis. So yeah, they are a talented bunch
Ever oasis mention! I love that game severely underated.
Since the first trailer, EVERYBODY was pointing out the problem with the mile-long list of echoes. Why Nintendo never adressed this or changed it is beyond me.
Its inexcusable considering TOTK had the exact same scathing issue
You can knock out the Mole boss for a few seconds to get some hits in. All you have to do is bind the statues you see on the stage (or just summon one yourself) and place it on the Mole's way when it charges at you. Very easy.
I think the Echoes are a perfect marriage of BOTW/TOTK player expression and classic zelda traditionalizism. The tools you use to explore the game at your leasure being classic Zelda enemies and objects just ties it all together nicely.
It's wild to me how much of this game can be defined by not just what you can find, but what you can _miss._ The Crawltula was actually one of the _last_ Echoes that I found on my first playthrough. I just so happened to wander right past the area in the overworld where you find them, and that area is actually the only place you _can_ find them! As a result, I had a totally different experience when it came to climbing up and over things, not as easy perhaps, but it worked for me, and it was part of my unique experience of the game. I also didn't realize you could kill (and thus copy) a lot of the "trap" enemies because they were invincible in other Zelda games. But it was fun to play without them, and then it was fun to play with them, to see all the things they could make easier and more effective. The joy of discovery is so palpable and so constant in this game, it's really quite astonishing.
11:43 This is what makes the game work. BotW and TotK gave you a few extremely powerful tools at the beginning of your adventure and then that's it, go nuts. Meanwhile, EOW hides over 100 tools around the game world, usually in places where it makes sense to use them. It re-adds that feeling of expanding your arsenal and becoming more powerful outside of just how many hits you can take and how far you can run!
The mole boss can be dealt with easily using the pillars you find in that dungeon. Just place them in his path
Mole boss is pretty easy. Statues, or any solid block will stun his charge of course, but it also stops the projectile sand waves. When he's in the ground you can Bind pull him into his stun state and in the air the bind pull instantly send him into the dive bomb attack that you can stun him in as well.
I absolutely LOVED that u could start off with hero mode. The rock/salt smoothies really saved me and i actually died many times in boss fights when i rarely died in other zelda games. The creativity and openness makes this an easy top 5.
The mole boss becomes a lot easier if you set out something solid like a statue in front of him when he charges as he’ll bonk off it and make himself dizzy
That heart piece in Scrubton took me ten seconds because I had the frog ring for higher jump, haha. Never realised it was supposed to be a struggle!
24:30 the clink and a few of the dream challenges really left me wanting more of that "use what you've got" challenge.
A lot of people say the smoothies are useless, but I kept making salty shakes that heal and refill your swordfighter bar. Replenishing that bar without going to the still world kept overwold combat more fun mixing it in with echoes. But I felt if they utilized the weather more it could have been more useful too.
Smoothies are not useless. However, I peronally never used the potions from shops (red, blue, purple).
35:24 I don’t think so.. if Null had an echo of Ganon then Ganon would have to have existed already meaning this could not have taken place after Demise’s curse. And while the overworlds don’t usually mean anything when it comes to story. The game features the Eastern Palace and the ruins of the Desert Palace from a Lttp. I believe this game most likely takes place sometime after A Link Between Worlds.
And as for the master sword not being present. I’m not really sure why it wouldn’t be in universe. In link between worlds it’s resealed back in its pedestal. The woods are in a slightly different location than in Lttp and Lbw so maybe it got relocated or something but I’m sure they didn’t want to Zelda to pull the master sword and Link having a different sword this time around is just used to explain sword fighter form existing. I could also see it taking place at the end of the downfall timeline after Zelda 2. The first two games never featured the master sword so at this point it might just be a forgotten relic. I guess that could explain the real Ganon not making an appearance since he was killed in the first game and in Zelda 2 his minions try but fail to resurrect him with Links blood. Without the threat of Ganon Hyrule would have been rebuilt and been at peace until this game when Null breaks free of its confinement.
@@Doodle1678 Ooo, I was considering EoW to be after ALBW but before the NES gaames, but I kinda like the option of it being after AoL!
I adored this game. As much as I love Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom, they're massive games that take a lot of effort to beat if you plan on getting all the shrines, upgrading some gear and mapping out all three levels available (in ToTK's case). So when Echoes of Wisdom was announced I knew it would be a bite sized experience to enjoy, and it was!
I beat the game in about a week, in an effort to pace myself. And I was so pleased that I never got stuck on any of the puzzles. I didn't look up a walkthrough for any of the dungeons, which is a common thing for me with older zelda games, even ones I know far more intimately. Everything was so well laid out I knew where I was pretty much at any given moment, even in a dungeon. I felt like I was being properly rewarded for understanding a puzzle that didn't require total moon logic to make happen. Even the dread of a water temple disappeared as I sunk my teeth into it.
Overall this game was very charming, and it was great to see Zelda get a proper debut. It took nearly my entire lifetime for Nintendo to heal from the suffering caused by CDI zelda, and I hope we get to see her more as the protagonist in mainline titles.
Just some observations during my playthrough:
- I used "Link mode" as little as possible, meaning only to break the dark webs. I hated it's inclusion on spirit, even if it is very time limited.
- Loved to get almost every stamp and piece of heart just by exploring before doing dungeons.
- I completed most side quests immediately upon receiving them, felt they were too easy.
- Loved the lessons implemented from BoTW/ToTK, not only the UI and Openness, but the Physics/Chemistry system too. Feels good that this appears to be now part of the "Zelda formula"
- I know many people had UI issues but I never did.
- My favourite part is the Dojo. I would have loved to have even more challenges.
- I only learned how to glide before the final boss. Edit: actually this needs elaborating. I glided using the Cuccos as second nature, but it never crossed my mind to use an echo for it.
15:47 as someone who went to Lanayru FIRST in the second set of dungeons, the cloud let me completely rip apart both the Eldin and Faron dungeons. Especially with the Eldin dungeon, I didn't even know how to glide, I just cheesed a massive chunk of with the cloud. The flying tile is also incredibly good as you can spam them to travel horizontal distances with ease.
I wasn't sure if Eldin or Faron was the intended first area of that section of the game at first, but I was sure that Holy Mount Lanayru was last lol
Even in these open ended games, they still have an order of operations in mind, so be careful of that if you don't want to accidentally/potentially worsen your experience
I did Lanayru first, but I actually didn't use the cloud much. I found the game significantly more fun to challenge myself to try and find the "intended" solutions to things, and I think other people would've had more fun if they did the same. Besides, platabooms are way more broken than clouds and you can get those right after the first dungeon lol
I haven't gotten around to playing Echoes yet, but in regards to your point about TOTK/BOTW feeling like they're meant to be played only once - I think the reason it feels that way is because they *are* meant to be played only once... at least, played "normally".
One big thing I noticed about people playing TOTK is that if they'd played a bunch of BOTW beforehand, then their feelings were a lot more mixed, because the core gameplay loop is still very much the same, just with more/different tools. On the other hand, people who hadn't touched BOTW in years (like me) loved the hell out of TOTK, because the memories of the prior game were fuzzy enough to make exploring the world feel fresh again.
Now, I did try restarting BOTW a couple years after it first came out... but I bounced off very quickly, mostly because while it was fun for a little while, I wasn't motivated enough to commit to a bog-standard rerun. If I'd had a plan in mind, an idea of how I wanted to tackle the game specifically, I think I would've had more fun. For good and ill, BOTW/TOTK are just *too* big to justify doing more than one regular playthrough of - they're better for self-imposed challenges or themed playthroughs.
They're actually very similar to TES in that sense - whenever I pick up an Elder Scrolls nowadays, I always go in with a particular character concept in mind, and experience the content from that perspective (and the mods I use are often geared specifically towards that character idea, natch). The issue is more that people look at BOTW/TOTK's replayability from the same perspective of older Zeldas, when they're actually more similar to Pokemon challenge runs in gamefeel. I mean, look at those "can I beat it with only Zora/Goron/Zonai/etc equipment?" videos - those are basically the Zelda equivalent of a monotype run.
...anyway uhhhh Echoes looks cool and I'm eager to pick it up very soon, but I'm also planning on never using Swordfighter Form specifically so I engage with the new mechanics (sort of like how I always commit to new Pokemon whenever a new gen comes out! Fancy that).
Don't ignore a core mechanic... Swordfighter mode is very clearly included because the other options of dealing with enemies are cumbersome and awkward. You'll be summoning a thousand beds and flying tiles regardless of how often you use swordfighter. In fact, you burn through a meter by doing so, so you'll always be forced back to echoes anyway.
If you think it makes the game too easy, then how do you feel about falling into pits not dealing damage to Zelda? Or that the game auto saves like every 30 seconds, removing all stakes?
@@SkyBlueFox1 I never used swordfighter form unless strictly necessary. I would recommend it.
What's amazing about botw/totk is that they figured out a way to make puzzles replayable.
I will tell you there are some things that can only be destroyed in sword fighter form. These are basically just literal walls meant to block progress. They aren't common. So you will be using sword fighter form just not often.
I'd have to disagree--I think BotW is way more replayable than any past Zelda game, and that's speaking as someone who's loved the series for over a decade. All the 3D Zelda games are excellent, but they're linear stories with identical gameplay loops. Gameplay is fun, but not so much so that I beat one of them and think "I should do that again!" Once a few years go by, sure, but I could never play the same Zelda game twice back-to-back. However, just within the first year of BotW's release, I beat it like 3 times, and have replayed it a couple times since. I've gotten all the shrines, max upgraded all the armor, even got all 900 koroks (over the course of like 3 years lol). The fact that you can approach the game so differently on every playthrough always makes it feel fresh and exciting to me, and makes replayability way more appealing. Maybe I change the order I do the Divine Beasts. Or challenge myself to do 3 hearts only or no paragliding. Maybe I try to make greater use of a rune I didn't use much before. The possibilities are endless.
Echoes of Wisdom might be my second-favorite Zelda behind Twilight Princess. It feels like the team not only understood Zelda, but LOVED it, and the game is such a joy as a result. (I can't wait for the inevitable echo randomizer lol)
7:34 - Zelda 2: _"Wow, rude! I'm right here!"_
20:16 - I... did not think to try that, for some reason. 😅
(Which is odd because I used Bind against several bosses before that.)
23:53 - That's only true if you've made enough story progress.
If you get there earlier, then they're just hanging out without the "cotton candy".
Same...i had no idea u could pull the helmet off LOL
I love this game
I don’t understand all this talk about earning freedom that isn’t in totk. You only get a few basic zonai parts to start with. You have to explore a LOT to get more useful combinations and also mine rock in the underground. If you use a map to get the parts you want and power through the underground that’s kinda your fault
I love the characterization of the void and how null wants to return to it to reunite -- null and void
I am about half of the game, loving it. Is the middle ground between a classic chapter and totk (which i didn't like)
For the mole all you gotta do is get it to ram into statues then it stops so you can hit it, I'm pretty sure you just missed that mechanic.
7:37 I mean, we had Zelda II Adventure if Link on the NES, but that game only lets you jump during side scroller segments. The overworld was still the usual fare, but everything else (towns, caves, dungeons) was side scroller.
fun thing about skorchill is that you don’t even have to get the helmet off, you can just wail on him the second the horns are down
I LOVED Echoes of Wisdom! Seeing others try to find different methods to deal with enemies and solve puzzles is always fun for me, and looking at the gameplay in this video kinda shocked me with how some of the bosses were countered. Regarding Ganon, you could enter Swordfighter form and swing the energy ball back, just like you could in the past. You could also bind to his trident when he throws it, and it'll actually stun him if you send it back!
I personally enjoyed the many different ways the player could approach things, but without making it bland or just disappointing. Don't get me wrong, I love TotK too, it just became one of my favorite Zelda titles, but the puzzles felt too easy because the main tactic was 'haha hoverbike go brrr' but that's funny at times. This time you've got echoes, but the question is how you're going to use them. You have the materials, now put it together! This game makes you think outside the box just like the dungeons from the classic titles (all of the games have, but I feel the puzzles from the older titles felt so much more rewarding).
I could yap about the story all day, but then I'd have an essay worth of text. But I enjoyed a lot of Echoes of Wisdom, and I can't wait for what they're gonna do next!
I much preferred to limit my sword fighter form use to emergencies only.
It just felt more fun to use Echoes to fight everything
Yeah, I did Hero Mode with no Swordfighter (apart from the handful of required times) and loved it. I wanted to play as Zelda and not lean on Link as a crutch. It’s doable too.
You didnt understand the mole boss. You can block him with animal statues to stun him.
I don’t think the developers ever purposely put games into the timeline I think they thought a timeline would help sell copies of the hyrule historia and they made it for that
Couldn't agree more.
Some of the games are definitely supposed to be related to each other though. The sequels to Ocarina and Wind Waker are obvious, but also Ocarina and Wind Waker are definitely supposed to be connected themselves
Skyward Sword also puts heavy emphasis on timeline stuff, and Link's Awakening is definitely connected to Link to the Past
Interconnected lore has been a longstanding aspect of the series, it's more that they haven't made a concentrated effort to make everything make perfect sense, nor is every single game supposed to fit in the timeline
This is not true. Even way back when Wind Waker was released there were interviews about timeline implications.
@@CoffeeDrinkerKim Yeah, and that was definitely the game that screwed up the timeline forever. Regardless, it still clearly wasn't fleshed out; Aonuma wanted his pirate game regardless of how much it screwed up the timeline, and then he failed to fix it in future games.
@@octorokreviews What do you mean? Nothing needs “fixing”. The split timeline is internally consistent, and is seen as early as Ocarina of Time’s end credits.
This was a really fun time for my first ever Zelda game.
Not a surprise the developers of ALBW (one of the few games in over a decade to give me the same feeling playing games as a kid) knocks this out of the park. Maybe I'll give it a go.
Hades, Xenoblade Chronicles X and Tales of Berseria are maybe the only others to make me emotionally sated in a long, long time in case anyone gaf
I love how you are able explain these games in such an articulate way and able to really express the essence of whichever game your videos are about. I feel like I’m getting a true feel for what the game is all about even if it’s a video about a game I’ve never played. I love your windwaker retrospective! Anyway, love your work!
20:39 He can be stunned during the rush attack, allowing for unhindered attacks
always love your insight on the games!! i would love to see that majora’s mask 3D breakdown as someone who only ever finished it on the 3D version and loved every bit of it
this game and metaphor refantazio coming out so close to each other has fried my brain
Not calling the game The Legend of Link was a huge L. Would have been hilarious
You’d be surprised how dumb a lot of Nintendo’s fanbase is. Most people thought the Wii U was just an add on for the Wii, I still don’t know how people could be that dumb. Knowing that I wouldn’t be surprised if nobody bought the game because they didn’t think it was part of the same series or something
A lil too obvious maybe
This joke has been dead for months
Dead before it started honestly… sometimes ya gotta try a bit harder, internet
Brand recognition lol
25:20 The only other time I can think of them being in the same game is the Oracle games, and even then the river Zora are strictly enemies
Link Between World's was the first Zelda game I finished, and as much as I love the open world games, nothing makes me as happy as a good old top down Zelda. This game was definitely worth the 11 year wait between them
The game's novelty is definitely its strongest point, and I appreciate that Nintendo still makes games like this, alongside its true high-budget big hitters. The scope and inventiveness in combination gives it a bit of an indie game vibe. I was regularly excited by the various ways I could tackle puzzles and combat situations. Getting to *use* monsters to fight is also a really interesting and fun premise. I absolutely dig Zelda as a summoner.
My main gripe is just that some areas feel underpolished, like it could've used just a bit more time in the oven. Echo UI navigation or the weird balance and use position of smoothies, for example... those parts are definitely a bit inelegant, not to mention the highly inconsistent performance.
By the way, since I didn't see you do it in the footage, did you know you can pull on Null's limbs with Bind to render them more vulnerable to Link's attacks? He'll run up and 1-shot them with a jumping Spin Attack if you do.
I'm about halfway through the video and I'm surprised you didn't mention the flying tile when you were talking about how game breaking the clouds are
Considering he didn’t think about making the charging boss run into a wall/statue, I’m gonna assume he didn’t think about the implications of a quickly moving flying floor tile.
I appreciate the deep dive, Liam, but I think you're overselling the Echo system just a bit. While the game does leave a great deal of the Echoes up for players to find and add to their arsenals, a great many of them are, despite what you claim, actually given to you. The bed, crates, desks and plants you mentioned at the start are all lying out in the open, right in the tutorial section, and the player needs to copy them in order to leave. The cloud you gave as an example as well is also given, as it is one of the first platforms that lay out in the open while exploring the Hebra rift. In fact, I'd say at least a third of the echoes in this game are just given to you. While yes, you do need to press the R-trigger to copy them, that doesn't mean the devs didn't still give them to you - finding the echoes is what makes them feel earned, and if the level just plops one in front of you, then you didn't earn it - you were given it.
I also disagree with the notion that combat was strategic. While you are technically allowed to use whatever echoes you so choose, the reality is that there are best options for each encounter, so players are going to end up using many of the same broken echoes as a consequence. The White Wolfos you mentioned is a great example: it's one of the strongest echoes in the mid-game, so pretty much everyone starts spamming it by that point - myself included. Because why not use the strongest echoes? The goal of combat is to end each fight as fast as possible, after all. And once you figure out the smoothie system, it's game over - the Sword of Might can be used infinitely, and combat becomes absolutely trivialized as a result. Freedom doesn't mean anything if everyone ends up using the same broken builds; on my second playthrough, I just used the same powerful echoes and the same smootie/swordfight combo I did on my first, and I think that will continue for all future playthroughs. Players need to be incentivized to try different echoes - there's no incentive if one's clearly more powerful than all the others.
I'm glad you enjoyed the game, and I thank you for your hard work on the video. Even if we came to different conclusions, I'm glad to see someone else put out a longer video on the game for me to compare my own analysis to. It's great to see different perspectives on the same topic.
"Second playthrough"
"Future playthroughs"
...you realize other games exist, right? Maybe I value my time more than you do yours, but almost no game is worth a second playthrough these days - especially when there's almost inevitably an HD remake/remaster/definitive/GOTY edition to uh, _'look forward'_ to.
@Scuuurbs That's just a lame way to look at things
There's no harm in playing the same game more than once, or reading the same book, or watching the same movie.
Saying you value your time more than others when you're still here playing the same games as the rest of us is stupid. If you actually valued your time more, you'd realize that only playing games once while also buying them regularly isn't a valuable use of your time spent making the money to aquire these things.
Do what you like and all, but don't go thinking you're spending your time better. You're spending your time the same as anyone else, entertaining yourself when you're bored.
@@peco595 I said *maybe* I value my time more. It wasn’t a certainty.
And yeah, if you want to be reductionist then sure, every game we play is the same because they’re all just taking up time. However, we both know different games offer different challenges and experiences. Some are more emotional, some really test our reflexes, and some challenge how we think. Our lifetime is finite. It is objectively true that someone who only plays games once will have more unique experiences than someone who takes the time to play games multiple times.
In that sense, it could be argued that a person who plays games once is getting more value out of their time. That is why I said what I did.
Besides, my reply was more of a snarky commentary on the state of the industry and how often they recycle old games. Whether or not I value my time more wasn’t the point.
While I don’t necessarily like the direction the Zelda series is heading in, I respect that you like Totk and EoW and don’t go into toxic positivity or negativity, just giving your opinion
Same, honestly it feels like you can barely talk about Nintendo franchises without seeing one or the other (though mostly the other).
Personally I didn’t really enjoy how he felt BOTW/TOTK being the right direction for the series to go in, but maybe that’s just me looking too much into what you said was just his opinion
I loved Breath of the Wild and while I still enjoyed Tears of the Kingdom I definitely think the next Zelda game should go in a different direction. I love Echoes of Wisdom though it’s a good balance plus I love top down Zelda so finally getting a new one feels great. Link Between Worlds is still better though in my opinion.
I dislike many things about TotK and was overall quite disappointed with it, and I came away from EoW highly satisfied. I think EoW is a huuuuge step back in the right direction.
@@tatltails3923 idk why people are comparing these games like they’re related at all.
The 3d and 2d Zelda series have been split development for like 25 years now.
The 2d team recently broke up and was reassembled by Nintendo, with confirmation that the 2d and 3d games will be worked on by different teams at different times.
Ergo, they might share ideas, but using a 2d Zelda as a benchmark for 3d Zelda moving forward is a good way to get disappointed.
Wow, that part in the final dungeon lifting link up, I did not have that echo 😂 it took me probably 10 minutes of manipulating boxes, trampolines, beds, and various levels of movement to get that part 😅
Loved this game. Was so worried I wouldn't like it since I've only played a few top down zeldas but I'd give it a 91% overall. I had so much fun
I love that they brought back both stamps and the yetli people from the DS games
Glad to finally see a Legend of Link game
Although I understand it, there's something funny about the very human psychology behind the game devs being like "We saw your creativity in BOTW, here's some incredible stuff to really go crazy!"
And the fans went "No but it's only fun if we think we're doing something you didn't intend."
Totk didn't really need autobuild or the ability to carry parts around in capsules. The game would have been brilliant without them because you would have been asked to problem solve with what's on hand, and if you wanted to get really whacky, you'd have to physically carry over your own parts.
All the TotK criticism I’ve been seeing feels like the Skyward Sword “dark side of recency bias”. Yall are gonna love it again in 10 years
False, TotK was horrid and the developers pretty much said create your own fun because we, as a multi-billion dollar company can't be bothered to do it. Then gaslit players who said they missed the traditional Zelda formula. Maybe other critics will see the uhh uniqueness of TotK down the line but I'm sorry, that game is utter garbage - full of lies and "demon king? Secret stone?" Like did we really pay $70 for the same cut scene?🙆🏾♀️🙆🏾♀️
That's cool that this Zelda-focused game gave her a fighting and adventuring style that emphasized Wisdom rather than just repackaged Courage. I also prefer when Wisdom and Courage work together (if for no other reason than making Power look that much stronger for needing both of the other Triforces to combat it rather than just one), so I'm very glad to hear that the game opens with playing as Link and it ends with him helping Zelda rather than how the CD-i game made his and the king's involvement a joke.
...Now, when do we get a Zelda game from the perspective of Power? Hyrule Warriors comes the closest, but everybody fights that way, so I wouldn't count it. I know it's impossible to make a challenging game when the player's Triforce is the one that always empowers the villains to be threatening in the first place, so I think it'd be cool if a Zelda game did something similar to this one, but have the player control Ganondorf or whoever on the tail-end of their conquest and absolutely nothing can stop them, only for that to be the prologue to the rest of the game players will spend as Link and/or Zelda trying to save the world they just conquered (preferably both or something like this game, so that all 3 Triforces can get the main character treatment in one game, just for the novelty of it).
If you are putting this on a time line, consider the LttP temples exist as ruins
I loved this game but my only problem is that the already bloated sort line has been made VASTLY worse here. Every single enemy, every single object, everything all in one line with no option for a seperate favorites bar. Why can't there be 2 seperate lines for echoes? Or even just an "enemy" and "object" bar. There's plenty of screen space, so why does it have to be 1 continuous line.
You can yank off Scorchill's helmet?!! I just had echoes attack the helmet to break the horns!
Echoes of Wisdom seems to be extremely underrated. I think it partially would’ve had a greater impact with a different art direction: for one, it definitely looks like it recycles a lot of assets from Link’s Awakening remake so visually it doesn’t feel like it’s as fresh as you’d expect from a brand new Zelda title, and secondly I think the art style and reuse of it sort of conveys that it’s a lower budget offshoot Zelda game and not essential but that couldn’t be further from the truth imo. It should definitely be in the conversation for top 5 Zelda games of all time, I think my only issue with it is that I do think it could’ve been even more unique with a more unique art direction.
Can we get a mini video on age of calamity? That game came out s o o o l o n g ago, peeps need not forget about it.
Unironicly respected and built on the lore of BOTW better than TOTK ever did and its ending sequences were the stuff of fanfiction.
20:42 ever try putting a statue in front of the boss while he’s charging
When I played I never realize I could rip of shields or helms with the grab function. I almost never used it. 😅
As someone who really, REALLY does not like 2D Zelda, god I love this game.
I get Zelda games for my sword fighting fix (and damn do these titles do it much worse!) but this felt like such a perfect mix of 2D and 3D design that the 2D parts never ended up bothering me.
I relied on swordfighter more than I maybe should have (the increased jump height mainly, for getting on the platform guys in the early game) but I had fun.
I was honestly a bit disappointed in the dungeon design of this game.
Most felt way too short and simple, take Eldin for exemple, it's one of second half's dungeons, and yet, it's a very short linear walk in the park.
Yeah Eldin dungeon was bizarre. It was the most linear and possibly easiest dungeon in the game - in the late game. It definitely felt like the lowest point of the game, like it was rushed out and unfininished.
The linear nature of the Eldin dungeon I forgive actually, the dungeon was a descent into the crater of the volcano after all rather than a maze in a building
It was pretty easy though. While it is supposed to be the first of those three dungeons, it was definitely easier than Hyrule Castle or Gerudo Sanctum, which is too bad.
Though, I did Eldin second, so maybe it was just way easier because I had the level 3 Darknut and Lizalfos as well as the level 2 Mothula
I did Eldin last, which unfortunately ended up being a disappointing decision
Eldin is kinda supposed to be like that. It’s an action and combat filled linear rollercoaster. Lanayru is a much more puzzle focused affair, and Faron is 100% exploration.
It’s the Triforce. It’s power, wisdom, and courage.
This!! I cannot stress this enough. The game has really major positives, but the dungeon design is incredibly lackluster, feels like something fan made with Dampe´s dungeon builder.
2:40 Nope! I can’t hear you. It can’t be that old. It’s a 3ds game. I refuse to believe it’s over 5 let alone 10 years old. Let me stay in denial.
I think Link uses the upgrades from the sword, bow and bombs in the final fight.
Dont be a menace to Hyrule while drinking your smoothie in Castle Town.
If not for A Link Between Worlds messing things up, Echoes of Wisdom would be a good way to emphasize the line at the end of A Link to the Past about the Master Sword sleeping again... FOREVER!
Neither Echoes of Wisdom nor the original two NES Zeldas featured the mythical sword, after all, and depending on your preference the latest game can fit in pretty well before Zelda 1 or long after Zelda 2.
Before Zelda 1 makes sense if you only look at the general overworld design, which features evolved and aged versions of ALttP features.
But if you're willing to ignore the different and more abstract environs of the NES games, placing Echoes at the end of the timeline makes sense from the perspective that both Ganon and the "Triforce" terminology have been lost, and Spectacle Rock has seemingly been destroyed after events of TAoL. Plus, facing end destroying the most elder of threats after finally ridding the world of Ganon feels like a good way to end the Legend on this particular timeline.
gonna be real: i shared your opinion on smoothies… up until i found some really good ones. at which point they basically trivialised the entire rest of the game. unlimited sword, unlimited health, damage reduction, the only thing i miss is movement speed.
plus it’s just charming, i completed the smoothie dex to 100% as soon as i could.
I enjoyed the game, my only problem (outside of performance) was the dungeons though. I don’t mind linear designs, linearity can be done well, but the dungeons in this game just felt way to easy and didn’t really last long (especially the volcano’s dungeon that barely lasted 10 minutes). There were a few I enjoyed like the ice dungeon and the Forest dungeon. But they didn’t really feel great to complete unlike those of Links Awakening or older titles. I do really like Null though, he feels powerful and is maybe one of the biggest threats in the series, seeing him grab a piece of the triforce felt dreadful after knowing what he is. Nulls boss fight may be one of if not my favorite boss fight from a top down Zelda game. Only other boss fight that felt this impactful was Malidus from spirit tracks. It’s also just nice for the triforce to be a physical thing in game again. For me it was a 7-8/10 game.
honestlty i largly forgot bind and especially reverse bind exsisted and never thought to use it on bosses as i had tried to use on link and it seemingly didn't work, i also tried to use sword fighter as little as possible and this made the game very fun for me
you have the voice of someone who could be a splatoon pro player
This game has become one of my favourite Zeldas of all time.
I love this game so much. It's been my favourite Zelda in a long time.
22:58 oh my god. you can use bind on that boss 🤦 I FOUGHT THIS THING TWO TIMES AND I DIDN'T REALIZE YOU COULD USE BIND.
I think it interesting how BOTW having less options when it comes to solving puzzles gave a more satisfying feeling atleast 2nd play through completed to TOTK due to it having so many options which isn’t entirely a bad thing but it can lead to wanting to rely only on the most effective one
You just described why it's a bad thing. The level of freedom TOTK tries to go with is just simply antithetical to good game design
In my first play through, I used urchins an obscene amount of the time.
8:47 close enought welcome back jacobins and girondins
24:44 oops i got the tri rod back and spawned a spider to carry me 🤷
I agree with so much of what you said. I really enjoyed tracking down heart pieces, collecting echoes, and the plot progression. By the time I had beaten the game, I was surprised to realize that I had already collected all of the echoes. The Deku Tree didn't tell me anything!😂
One of the things that I didn't like were, of course, the sorting system, the limited smoothie recipes, and...and this might be controversial...Tri. ...I didn't like Tri. Not the mechanic, the character. It felt like bootleg Fi, but without the charm or the intelligence. It just kept talking to me like I was a 5 year old. Meanwhile, it had the mind of a 3 year old. ...and it wouldn't stop talking!!! 🙄 It just didn't work for me. But, the mechanic was fantastic! ❤
...one other thing that I didn't like was, surprisingly, the music. Each track was much too short, so it repeated much more frequently, and it just end up being kind of grating. Granted, I do prefer the BotW and TotK types of atmospheric soundtracks, but if I have more overworld themes, there's Twilight Princess, Wind Waker, and Skyward Sword. And if you want bombastic soundtracks, then Age of Calamity was amazing. Those are examples of OSTs done right. This one missed the mark, in my opinion. 😢
As for the timeline i definitely think its after ocarina of time by the fact ganon is an echo, but otherwise it kinda fits anywhere (except the new hyrule in the wind waker timeline) and imo thats not a bad thing
Molgryph gsve me a terrible time until it was pointed out that the statues scattered around are a clue.
You can stop his rampage and he gets stuck. Slap his ass real quick and run like hell.
"a link between worlds was the first original mainline zelda game in 11 years"
tri force heroes: am I a joke to you?
You know what, with how switch designed to be playable with 2 player anytime anywhere.
Its really STRANGE we still not have multiplayer zelda on switch
(NSO Four sword doesnt count, you need internet, and membership to play)
Hopefully we get a 3 in one multiplayer zelda for the next system ( FS, FSA, and TFH)
Even Liam Triforce isn't immune to the "I don't like Tears of the Kingdom anymore" trend. I feel like all of TH-cam is trying to gas light me. These are the same people that said just a year ago that Tears of the Kingdom was so much better than Breath of the Wild that there was no point to ever play Breath of the Wild again and that Breath of the Wild feels like a tech demo in comparison.
Totk is a glorified dlc and annoying Banjo kazooie nuts and bolts mechanics. I loved BOTW. I despise TOTK.
The TotK hate is uninspired, tired, and often uses critiques that are far from exclusive to TotK. I think in a few years people will reevaluate TotK and find their immediate swing to hate was every bit as hasty and unconsidered as the launch time love.
"Despise" is such a strong word... I like TOTK, but acknowledge it's inelegance. I feel like TOTK's primary weakness is that it is under-tuned. How many of the pre-built schematics did you try more than once? Very few, because 98% of the time you were better off with a hoverbike. I think Echoes of Wisdom does a better job - though not a perfect one - of balancing the usefulness of the tools at your disposal.
@@1_random_commenter see, I find this to always be a kind of funny complaint. Like complaining every Pokemon game is the same because you haven’t changed the same six Pokemon from your first Red and Blue Playthrough and complaining there aren’t enough options. If you’re tired of using the Hoverbike to solve every problem, stop using the Hoverbike to solve every problem. More than half the people I know refused to use the Swordfighter form in Echoes of Wisdom because they understand this here but seem unable to help themselves there. Now I get it, everything being so easily cheesable is a problem that requires player discipline to solve but people will soon grow to realize this is true in EoW too. The people who note they don’t have much problem with the UI have already inadvertently discovered it: they’re using the same set of echoes for platforming and another small set for combat.
Example, most people use the Peahat early game and switch to Ball and Chain Knight for the second half. Why? They have good DPS and you can use bind to cheese things. Most people are using crawltulas to scale things or beds with tornadoes. EoW has the exact freaking same problems as TotK, but it seems the Swordfighter Form being off-putting to so many shifted them into the correct mindset: challenge yourself, find creative solutions and not just optimal ones.
@@ryanwall5760 I totally get where you're coming from, and I agree that the onus is on players to an extent to mix things up. But I feel that the game designers have to meet the player halfway - it's more than a decade old at this point, but the "Sequilitis" video on Castlevania demonstrates this well.
My point is that with Echoes of Wisdom, the commitment of trying an alternate approach is very low (versus half an hour of fiddling with the assembly system in TOTK, and having to farm zooanite after it doesn't work), the viability of different echoes is more consistent (again, compare with the rollercoaster of utility in TOTK), and everything feels more COHESIVE, because all elements of the game are intended to work together instead of having caves and crafting welded on to what was there before.
I'm totally down to try creative solutions instead of reliable ones, but I shouldn't have to fight the game to do it!
Great video! Your pronunciation of "Faron" is killing me though. Lol
Is it weird that I did the Eastern Palace before Jabul Ruins and anything in the west?
So 2D Metroid Retrospective when
With both BOTW and TOTK, I think I have to wait at least 5 years between playthroughs to sufficiently forget things.
Hardcore mode is actually unforgiving as hell and you tear through your healing supply so fast.
Thanks for the update.
Okay, I have not played Tears of the Kingdom, but did they really slap the building of vehicles (and possible vehicle customization) from Banjo Kazooie: Nuts n' Bolts onto TotK, and did the Zelda fanboys eat it up and praise it for it's creativity and ingenuity when they hated that same thing about Nuts n' Bolts because it wasn't "a real Banjo Kazooie game"??