So could HYrule destroy its triforce now? Maybe it could somehow bind to the Wild Era where Zelda looks like to have the full thing herself without even knowing it first.
@@Wilson-gz1ls Given how limitless the wisher for the Triforce are it could be theorized that you could wish for them to be destroyed and for the wish to go through
@@nomad6169 I believe on this way the lorulians desytroyed theirs, but unlike hyrule they may still had their own null which then started to devour the world.
how about capnut he got his happy ending too. able to sneak around as a guard which became his dream after being saved by a guaed, then people though he was an echo, then the general decides to let him join the kings army since he showed such detication.
The Tri's having the ability to create echoes explains how they repair rifts, placing copies of things destroyed. On a greater level, this game's backstory could be used to explain how landmarks are moved between different installments of the series.
Hi, I'm a chemist and a Zelda fan. The might crystals remind us of bismuth crystals, and it's funny that the theme of nothingness leaves these crystals since it is said that bismuth will be the last element to disintegrate since its half-life is millions of years. That could explain why when a rift closes, the only thing left is crystallized bismuth. Regards.
I had to look this up because I half-life of a million years isn't really that long. uranium 238 for instance has life of 4.47 billion years, which is most of the estimated age of the Earth. but it turns out the truth is even more interesting! so naturally occurring bismuth, isotope 209, actually has a half-life of 19 quintillion years, which itself is longer than the estimated age of the universe.
@@gabrielcontreras8209 I mean, it could just be that the failsafe only works if the person doesn’t just gouge the sacred power out of the bearers by force. It seems like assembling the Triforce yourself removes the authentication spell.
If you get Link's green tunic and talk to Condé while wearing it, you learn that Condé was stolen away at some point, and that Link was the one that saved him 💚 This is what Condé tells you: "Zelda, the clothes you're wearing... Condé has seen them before. Condé once fell into some of that dark gunk and was saved by someone who wore that! Condé can't remember much about it. But the sight of you in that makes Condé happy!"
@@stoodmuffinpersonal3144 You have to complete all the Slumber Dojo challenges which is in Kakariko Village, but all of them don't unlock until you've cleared all of the bosses in the main game (except Null of course).
It just occurred to me that the Tris are the mechanism by which the Triforce works at all. The Triforce seems to be a conduit through which one can command the Tris into creation from pure will and imagination. This has to be the ultimate goal of Null. In order to prevent creation, they must control it and ultimately destroy its controller, the Triforce. This is ALSO why in Link Between Worlds why Lorule's world decayed after the destruction of ITS Triforce. Assuming its world was created in a mirrored situation with a mirrored Null, the world is being consumed when the lock to Null's cage was destroyed and the method of creation itself was obliterated by itself.
@@EmeraldMan25 yeah but it wanted to use it to destroy everything else. Its hard to imagine it wanting even the Triforce around after everything is destroyed, since it wants to be the ONLY thing to exist
One note that backs up your idea is how, the same moment the Triforce glows after Zelda and Link activate it, every single Tri imprisoned in Null begin to radiate with that same power. They all activate in response to the full activation of the Triforce.
If you ever do an updated Link power rankings, i feel like this one should be at or near the top. He survives for who knows how long in the rifts without fading away or getting killed. He beats back the primordial void given form WITH A STICK! Aaaannnd, im pretty sure he is unkillable in the final fight against Null. This may be Zelda's game, but they made sure not to do Link dirty. I love it.
keep in mind, link is more devine than most hyrulians. he has the blood of the goddess Hylia in him (since he is a direct descendant of the original Zelda)
@@crazysilly2914 No? Zelda is the Direct Descendant, she has the Blood of the Goddess and Hylia's Bloodline is the Royal Bloodline Link is just a random Dude that gets greatness thrust uppon him
Well we have to consider that Link is most likely only capable of doing permanent damage because the Might Sword is forged from the Crystals that are effective against Null and his Creation If he would face Vaati with it for example he would be powerless
Near the top. He's only got a limited number of hearts for the... 10 minutes? That you play as him for. While it's a large number of hearts, compared to Hero of Time and Hero of Legend's abilities of Unstoppable Force and Immovable Object? I don't remember who came third but. Third place is the most this Link could be. He's killable at the start and unkillable at the end but that's because gameplay reasons. But yes, this Link's powerful.
I had assumed that the reason people often couldn't talk or lost their memories after entering the rifts was because, as their bodies gradually faded with the Still World, so too did their memories. Rather than being traumatized, the experience would have left indefinite marks on them, like scars from a wound.
@@supagirl277 It's implied that Link being able to escape and move freely thereafter when in the Still World is because he was the hero foretold by the prophecy, just as Zelda was able to move through the rifts because she was the priestess. It's a somewhat scary thought that Link could have been (hehe) Null-ified by the Still World like the other Hyruleans, but for all we know that was an impossible scenario.
Adding Null as the negative space between the Triforce Pieces, and an opposite force to The Three Goddesses, is honestly a very nice balancing piece to the Hyrule Mythology. Because now The Three are Creation/Existence as opposed to Good/Light. Light and Dark, Good and Evil, these are represented by Hylia and Demise. And because both of them stem from Creation (Hylia was made and put in charge, while Demise simply formed and emerged), they both utilize the powers behind the Tri-Force. The Tri-Force doesn't care about Good and Evil, just that things exist. To the Tri-Force, Ganon's Dark World is just as valid as Peaceful Hyrule.
@@bootlegbilly1 It was never stated that it was the golden goddesses who did that. Just the “gods”. Which could have been any gods, such as the Zonai, who we know have the ability to generate infinite water from the sky (and the Tower of the Gods feels like a Zonai shrine).
@@bootlegbilly1 The three goddesses created Hylia as a guardian of the triforce. Which makes sense that the denizen of Hyrule would worship Hylia and not the 3, because the three golden goddesses left hyrule a long time ago to continue their cosmic journey, only to return again at some point. But since Hylia is always there in hyrule constantly, she is the actual diety that can help people when they pray to her.
The game explains why all the landmarks (Ordinn Volcano, Hebra Mountain, Farore Forest, Gerudo Desert, Lake Hylia, etc) keep moving around: they fell in the void and the Tris didn't restore them exactly where they used to be
Another thing that makes Demise and Null not related at all in my opinion are their plans they had once they get their hands on the Triforce. Null wants to errase everything while Demise wants to create a world ruled by Demons The one wants oblivion, the other wants hell.
I don't think that necessarily makes any direct indication. The way I see it, Demise could actually be unaware of Null's existence and he simply thinks it's his destiny to possess the Triforce and overthrow the gods. Maybe Null implanted the idea of the Triforce into his head and let him do with that knowledge as he would. The fact remains that regardless of their intentions, Demise came from a "fissure" and despises the gods, and Null makes rifts and despises the gods. That's the closest thing to an origin story that we've EVER gotten for Demise, and I don't doubt that the writers wanted you to make this connection.
Though the Question Remains, if Null creates Demise and Demise creates Demons, why can't Null create the same Demons? Why can he only create Echoes? And why is his huge outbreak happen just now alongside the appearence of the other Monsters? This only means Null is actually unable to create Demons on his own and even fails to free himself for eons - that is until he gets his hands on the Powers of a... certain Individual - Ganon, the Heir of the Demon Tribe's throne.
@@Chris-gx1ei Yeah, I thought about that as well. We truly don't have any indication that Null can create things that aren't echoes and that's the biggest problem with the potential connection. Though echoes COULD explain the seemingly-infinite number of monsters/demons that Demise and his successor(s) can call forth, because the origins of the Demon Tribe were never expressed either.
@@GameMasterKyro The other thing might simply be that Ganon and Demise do have their limits because their monsters are first weaker than Null's Echoes and second they cannot respawn them constantly - especially Ghirahim could simply have spawned countless Bokoblins - which he didnt probably because the suply of Demons to summon is limited and he cannot constantly revive them - which explains why they revive in the Night of a Bloodmoon, because that gives Ganon the Fuel to revive the fallen Monsters. Null may theoretically be also limited in how much he can spawn at once, though he has a Different Situation... If an Echo made by Tri dies, Zelda can inmediately spawn a new one, no wait until a Bloodmoon or a Black Sun or any other form of Eclipse. The Monster dies, the Triangles return and Tri can simply spawn a new Monster. Basically Demise/The Demon Tribe has a limited Suply of Monsters but can spawn way more at once while Null is limited with the ammount of Echoes he can spawn, yet he can spawn them over and over again.
Its very clear that null cannot create things, he can only devour, even his echo ability isnt from himself, its from the tris he ate. Even the rifts are just the result of him trying to devour the world. So its very unlikely that null created demise and other demons.. He could possibly have influenced him though..
Tri going into eternal slumber lowkey brought a tear to my eye, made me think of Fi doing the same thing. They both even go through similar character development, being robotic and indifferent at first, but then showing semblances of emotion by the end
Thank you! I felt the same way. I was greatly saddened when Tri bade farewell to Zelda. Just like with Fi, Midna, and Ciela, you grow attached to these companions over the course of the game and thus it's disheartening to have to say goodbye to them at the game's conclusion.
Tri isn't robotic like Fi was, spewing odds of survival or such. Instead, Tri has an alien mind, a spirit who just doesn't understand its surrounding because they haven't lived around any people before (except more Tris). But as the game progress, Tri gets it, understand what happiness is and wish everyone to be happy too! And that makes Tri probably one of the most loveable companion of the whole serie!
I think the Tris and Fi are kind of the same thing. Servants made by the goddess to assist the saving of Hyrule. So them going back to sleep made sense to me.
I think the part that makes it just that much sadder is that Tri is the only one who was by Zelda's side the entire time throughout that journey. The only other who has the complete memory. Everyone else only saw fractions, or heard it secondhand. It becomes a story instead of a shared experience with someone. With Tri gone, Zelda becomes the sole primary source of her own legend.
I actually burst into tears at the picture of Condé's brother returning. I love Condé so much. My favorite character in the franchise. So sweet and pure. Such a good boy.
I was the opposite, TOTK added alot of depth imo. Echoes wasn't bad all, it just kinda hit a very surface level imo, possibly because the game felt extremely short.
@@adamant_viewer In addition to the Triforce returning, it was nice to have dungeons return as well. Echoes of Wisdom made me realize just how much I missed having traditional Zelda dungeons, with A Link Between Worlds being the last game to have them, and that came out 11 years ago.
This was the one game I had no lore expectations for. I came to terms with the fact that Nintendo prefers to rely on gameplay rather than lore and I’m ok with that. THEN THEY COME AND HIT WHEN WITH THE MOST INSANE LORE IVE SEEN RIGHT AFTER AND I LOVE IT.
18:34 That makes sense. Null hates creation, and it is only with reluctance that Null creates echoes as a means to an end of destruction. Creating a new invention that didn't already exist would require imagination that Null cannot possess without fundamentally changing Null's worldview.
Few things in video games have made me happier than that one singular picture of Conde seeing his brother return. You are absolutely right: that IS what matters most.
I love seeing the Deku Kingdom and Sea Zora depicted as just off screen of the A Link to the Past map. It makes it seem that even though Termina is a parallel world, the biomes that make up it's map aren't that far removed from Hyrule
I've heard of Tetraforce theories before (mainly people pointing at the OoT's Medallion of Shadow), but Null's hunger isn't quite a triforce of Shadow/Darkness. It's not really a fourth part, it is only the emptyness contained within creation.
At the beginning of Skyward Sword, the storybook says: "One dark, fateful day, the earth cracked wide and malevolent forces rushed forth from the fissure." I never understood why or how this happened, but after playing EOW, I think these lines are describing a rift. It's mind-blowing to think that Demise came from a rift and that he might be somehow related to Null. It's also worth mentioning that during the final battle against Null, the theme that plays is a combination of the Echoes of Wisdom main theme, Zelda's Lullaby, and Ganon's theme.
It’s said that life spontaneously arose in the void, perhaps after Null was first sealed it was to weak too consume the creations of the void which were the demons
Demise and to a certain extent Ganon/Ganondorf being children of Null is an amazing concept. The Demon King born of the vast nothingness resting beneath the world itself
I disagree slightly with how you characterize Null as “amoral”. Null’s actions and methods are evil. It seeks to dissolve/consuming everything against its will. BUT its motivations are amoral- Null doesn’t do this out of malice but out of an existential compulsion to seek a reality of nothingness. Compare that to Ganon/Demise: Their motivations are conscious and malicious - they aren’t driven by some existential need, they consciously choose to pursue their goals. TL;DR Whereas Null’s motivation is amoral + existential, Ganon/Demise’s motivations are just plain evil.
i was so happy when i finished the eldin dungeon and suddenly there was the voice of Din. i went into the game completely blind and didn’t see it coming at all - threw my right back into my ocarina of time nostalgia. i was happy about it for days.
41:52 Here’s a fun fact about Conde’s ability to also see Tri upon meeting the duo - which SPOILERS AHEAD… After unlocking Link’s Green Tunic, if you return to talk to Conde while wearing the garb, he reveals that he was saved by an adventurer who wore the same outfit; thus confirming that Conde was saved by Link prior to the events of the game. Also, I do recommend talking to Conde with other outfits post Lanayru Dungeon. The dialogue is incredibly wholesome.
Ok hear me out. When null gets annihilated at the end, he leaves underground a huge void that over time, life finds its way in. This is the origin of the Depths. Leftover might cristals from the final confrontation with Null became Zonaite over time.
I think it's most interesting that it's Demise's curse itself that ultimately is the reason Hyrule is saved in this game. No matter what Null already existed and would've attacked to try and take the Triforce even without his curse. But because of the curse also needing to have a Zelda and a Link it ensured that there would be someone to fight against Null.
I'm pretty sure that Demise's curse doesn't ensure there is a Zelda and Link; there being a Zelda and Link is already assured by their incarnation cycles, and Demise's curse just ensures that there is usually a Ganon for that Zelda and Link to fight. There are Links and Zeldas even after Demise's curse is undone by the King of Hyrule's wish at the end of The Wind Waker.
@@Zelda64-cj1 Not really. Demise's curse just piggybacks on the reincarnation cycles that Link and Zelda already had: "Those like you: those who carry the spirit of the hero and the blood of the goddess; they are bound to this curse", so there would have still been new Links and Zeldas without Demise's curse. Demise's curse just means there will often be a Ganon whenever there is a Link and a Zelda.
@@matthewmuir8884 I think Demise's Curse was more about there being some kind of evil to oppose the Hero and the Princess(Priestess?) and not just Ganon himself. The likes of Bellum and Malladus can be attributed to this. Like, Ganon's Theme is used when in relation to Bellum a few times in PH, and Malladus holds the title of "The Demon King".
@@trixaquilon2786 ...Okay. My point was that his curse relies on the fact that Link and Zelda would reincarnate anyway, so Demise's curse meant nothing in terms of there being a Link and Zelda to oppose Null as there would've been a Link and Zelda anyway.
41:45 We do actually learn more about this. When you talk to Condé after the Hebra Temple while wearing Link's hood, he mentions how someone with a similar hood, probably Link, once saved him after falling into a rift.
Void (aka emptiness) is one of the five elements in the Japanese philosophy of Godai. This is what Zelda is facing in Echoes of Wisdom. While Life is often referred to as the fifth element. Void is just as important. Void is what separates everything in existence this giving us the ability to distinguish one thing from another. Void can also be considered a necessity for creation as most religious believe in Chaos as a primordial being. Meaning emptiness (or the space between things) is what stopped Chaos allowing creation to take place by separating one thing from another allowing order into existence. Nayru is the Goddess that created law and order and is also the closest Goddess associated with Zelda from the Three Golden Goddesses.
When you think about it, Null has gotta be the most terrifying Zelda villain probably since Majora. Other villains like Demise, Ganondorf, and Vaati just wanted to take over Hyrule, meanwhile Null wants to consume the entire world and turn it into nothingness. Not to mention that Null is, thus far, the only Zelda villain that's been powerful enough to capture the three Golden Goddesses. Also that whole last area in Null's Body and final boss fight was some Eldritch horror shit and I loved it. Nice to see the Zelda team taking cues from past Kirby titles with a cutesy, almost innocent game with a terrifying final boss.
Null did not capture the golden goddesses. He just sucked their holy lands into the still world, making it impossible for mortals to reach them. The goddesses themselves were never trapped. They existed on another plane of reality altogether. I'm aware that Tri *says* Null captured the goddesses, but Tri was simply wrong. In order for Null to capture the goddesses by sucking them into the Still world, they would have to first physically be present in the normal world in order to BE sucked in, and we know that they do not physically exist in the normal world; they exist in the sacred realm.
I love the combination of Zelda music from all different games to underscore this video, the choices all work so incredibly well despite only occasionally actually being composed for the scenarios being talked about. Well done, Zeltik!
The three goddesses created Hylia as a guardian of the triforce. Which makes sense that the denizen of Hyrule would worship Hylia and not the 3, because the three golden goddesses left hyrule a long time ago to continue their cosmic journey, only to return again at some point. But since Hylia is always there in hyrule constantly, she is the actual diety that can help people when they pray to her.
the negative triforce being null , it's so good to see fan theory come back in a form, wether the dev knew about it or not, but i really life the symbolism it gives to the triforce itself, you made me realise the 3 triangle are encircling the void , like they do with the created world. so good. I think echoes of wisdom established new lore that makes the lore even more interesting, i hope they use this in future games too (as in that this stick as lore stuff and doesnt get forgotten)
The developers are well aware of the “tetra force” fan theory, they redesigned the Hylian shield and removed the 4th triangle specifically to debunk it. Giving it a nudge-nudge wink-wink was very much intentional on their part
The Creation of the World story in Echoes of Wisdom is what makes this zelda game so DAMN rich and more INSANE ever since Hylia’s struggle against Demise (or Bringer of Demise in Japanese)in Skyward Sword.
I was completely caught off guard by Darston. The very first bearded Goron I ran into in the Still World, I automatically assumed THAT was Darston. I was not expecting a little nerdy guy with a slab.
So, when the cutscene revealing Null was happening on my sisters first playthrough, I was in the room and she jokingly said (before the text box revealing the name) “It’s Knull.” In reference to the Marvel character. The two seconds later the text box said “It’s name is Null.” WE LAUGHED SO HARD
All that’s left for me is just even a touch of why the goddesses care about it. They don’t live in the world, so why is its perpetuation so important? Could be a motherhood allegory. The goddesses felt the inescapable need to create, and then to protect their creation.
@@Novarcharesk inhuman things don't need human motivations. They could derive their purpose only from supporting the thing they made; maybe they're just pissed someone is trying to break their game board. Who knows.
49:00 not sure if it's intentional here, but that 2 dots and a dash pattern could be interpreted a bit differently. if you have 3 tris, you have three dots, three dashes, and three dots. so a morse code SOS signal. unsure if it's intended but it's not like nintendo hasn't pulled this sort of thing before
Is it weird to describe this as the most 3D Zelda a 2D Zelda has ever been? I don't even mean the gameplay. It just takes so many aspects from the characters, races, bosses, and lore elements from 3D Zelda games to create a 2D Zelda that has never been on the scope of one of the big 3D Zelda games before.
One thing I thought was peculiar at the end of the game, right before the final battle with Null, is that some Moblins were seen turning gray and vanishing into the rift. This would seem to suggest that monsters don't have their source from Null, and come from somewhere else. Also, I am wondering how in the world Zelda's cat got so big all of a sudden. When Zelda was attacked by Null and brought to the castle, her cat was averaged sized. But by the end of the game, the cat is massive! Taking up practically the whole bed.
Monsters vanish in rifts too - to me, this is evidence enough that monsters/demons are unrelated to Null, and hence Demise is a separate being entirely to Null
@HyruleGamer what editing/ recording software do you use? I was wondering because I love your videos and want to start making my own Zelda videos, but I do not know where to start.
This game was so refreshing from a narrative perspective. Botw/Totk are great, but the way they tell the story in such a disjointed way through random memories has always been a huge detriment to the storytelling of those two games.
Link saved Conde at some point from the rifts. If you talk to him while wearing the disguise, he mentions someone else who wore that hood saved him when he fell into a rift.
I could just listen to Zeltik's voice forever... so calming yet so powerful with each word I'll always come back to videos I've listened to prior just to relax Thanks again for another amazing video!
I love the idea that the swordfighter form is a power of Zelda's to mimic skills/knowledge she wouldn't normally have. Seems like a fitting ability for the priestess of wisdom!
Theory: The goddesses needed Null to consume the Tris to make the force of Nothing into a material being that could be destroyed. Zeltik pointing out the Tris trapped inside Null’s body at the end of the game made me notice how much mirroring there is between Null’s design inside his body and the Tris. Particularly the double helix DNA design. The staff that Tri gives Zelda is also a double helix, but shaped into a staff harkening to perhaps DNA as the blueprints of creation, which Zelda collects and then creates through the power of a rod embodying DNA blueprints. But why would Null, the antithesis of creation and matter, be filled with DNA.. unless the body came from consuming Tris who create matter? This also makes me wonder about what Null was in the Beginning if not a physical body, and what it was at the end that we fought and destroyed.. and how. If the game implies that the power of all the Tris commanded by the power of the prime energy are able to defeat Null, I wonder why the goddesses wouldn’t have been able to do that at the beginning of time? Why is it possible now? Perhaps because Null didn’t have a body to be destroyed when the goddesses trapped him. Just a force, an opposite entity to what they were. But in their foresight, maybe they knew to defeat Null, that Null would have to be tricked into wanting to consume the Tris, become embodied, and seek out the power of the Triforce in order to be possible to destroy. While the Tris mend the rifts, they’re also enraging and baiting Null into consuming them. Therefore, while it seemed like Null was 2 steps ahead of the heroes, the goddesses were 10 steps ahead of Null - using his greed against him to trick him into becoming material- the opposite of his nature, in order to ultimately destroy him.
I don't think it's the case that the Goddesses *couldn't* destroy Null; I think it's that they *wouldn't* destroy Null. They are goddesses of creation. Destroying something is anathema to their very being. If they destroyed Null, then they wouldn't be the Golden Goddesses.
@@Celestia282 perhaps it’s a choice. But if the choice is because destruction is the antithesis of creation I wonder if we’re getting into semantics here. And it brings us into some pretty age old theological debates about whether an all powerful god that is the embodiment of good is capable of evil. Are they capable and choose not to go against their nature? Or does their ultimate nature render them incapable? Personally I think that debate may be beyond the scope of this video game but maybe not! But I can certainly see how the reason behind imprisoning Null vs destroying Null is due to their very nature as opposed to a lack of power. However, I like viewing Null as a powerful primordial entity on the same playing field as the goddesses - more of an equal opposing force that threatens the limits of their power as opposed to a lesser being that they chose to let others take care of.
not to be that guy but at 29:40 vocavor probably isn't based on an isopod; it reminds me a lot more of anomalocaris (an extinct animal) or a fairy shrimp
(3:59) "How exactly Null is related to Demise is still an open question..." I may have found an answer from TV Tropes' Fridge page: "In Skyward Sword, Demon King Demise's name in Japan is Shūen no Mono, which is roughly translated as "Person of Demise". In France, Demise's name is Avatar du Néant (Avatar of the Void). All of the alternate names suggest that Demise is a personification of nothingness or destruction, not just a demon king. And guess what Null is? It's nothingness and destruction, and it's imprisoned at the core of the world by the Golden Goddesses. And then there's the fact that Demise and his Demon Army came from a crack in the ground, just like how the rifts form from the ground."
A connection that I think is interesting is the language that Null uses is very similar to the language used in Majora’s mask when talking about the moon. After summoning the giants at the end of the game the moon even says “I shall consume everything”. It could be that Majora is harnessing some of Nulls power to destroy Termina. It has some cool implications imo
(I’m replying before finishing the video, so if I’m super wrong I delete lol) I feel like the lore drop, while cool, really isn’t “that” impactful. It’s basically showing a reason the 3 Goddesses created the world; but that’s really it. Cool, but not really adding too much. (If I’m wrong, I’m sorry lol)
@@mobes8876 it adds an existential villain beyond even Demise. Demise and his incarnations are a lineage of conquerors. Null is the end and death of all things, the return to nothingness, and the embodiment of nonexistence.
@@riokollivier Want to hear a hot take? I really dislike Demise. As a standalone villain, he’s fantastic-great design, epic battles, and all that. But his impact on the series bothers me. The concept of the "curse" undermines the autonomy of the villains; they aren't evil by choice, but rather out of obligation. It strips away moral complexity and agency, which I really can’t stand. On the other hand, I find Null to be an intriguing concept. It adds an interesting existential layer to the story, like you mentioned. However, I still prefer to view the villains as standalone characters rather than tied to a broader narrative. Honestly, I’m in the "lore doesn’t really matter" camp. Sorry for the lengthy response! lol
I have a theory of why Zelda is able to see Tri. Since Null can only really manifest aspects of the void, I offer that the crystal she was imprisoned in is like a minor pocket void for entrapping. This exposes her, thus allowing her to see Tri. Also explains why Link's arrows are able to break and destroy it.
Just finished the main story yesterday, i loved this game one of my favourite top down Zeldas for sure. Great analysis of the awsome story, i was genuinely surprised at how engaged in this plot I became. The characters were all great and made me feel for there plight. The amount of new lore was awsome too, playing as Zelda and getting to interact with the golden goddesses for the first time and a great new antagonist in the form of the eldritch abomination that is Null. It is now my personal head canon that Lorule's slow disintegration in Link between worlds was caused by that universes version of Null slowly breaking free due to the destruction of Lorule's Triforce/Prime energy.
It's no wonder the Golden Goddesses have been absent unless the world itself is threatened. They're more concerned about Null's cage remaining intact (and by extension the Triforce, so the Tris have the power to keep doing their job)
No, EoW takes place in a different timeline altogether. The lore of the game proves it. In the main timeline, it was Demise that was just kind of there at the beginning and opposed the goddesses. In EoW timeline, it was null. It can't be both, so the logical explanation is that these are different timelines. Not different branches like the Adult and Child timelines, but more like totally different trees rather than different branches of the same tree.
When I first start playing the game, I notice a statue of a Loftwing. Whether or not this is a reference to Skyward Sword, one thing is clear: the Kingdom of Hyrule hasn’t forgotten the events that followed Hylia’s battle against the OG demon King and his demon tribe, and Denise’s defeat by a hero chosen by the Goddess reincarnated as the first Zelda.
also done really well, since it's not just another piece of the triforce that is evil or something like that, it's literally the void left inside the three pieces
I’m not going to watch this video until I play EoW. I just wanted to say that it’s good that this game has an hour of lore to go through. Very encouraging.
I have a crazy theory. hyrule is shown to constantly change landscape throughout the games. Yes it’s because of time but what if some rifts successfully destroy land that gets pulled in and the tri’s repair the rift and create a brand new landscape to replace it. It does say anything that stays in the void for a long time fully decays so it’s possible. (And the tri’s share some of the gods power so if they can repair literal cracks in reality I’m sure they to can make land too just not at the same scale of the three goddesses) It’s just a theory but it does explain hyrules constantly different landscape across the games.
That's a cool idea. What if the Tris don't actually remember the landscape, so they make a rough imitation. And over the centuries, more gets changed around, creating a Ship Of Theseus situati
The video was great. Excellently told recap and spot on analysis. Listening to you continuously say Lefte and Wright with a straight face (voice?) like they're not ridiculous puns was absolutely hilarious.
This Zeltik lore explanation made me feel like I didn’t just play a Pokémon-type Legend of Zelda game made for 8 year olds: thank you for reinvigorating me, sir.
Didn’t expect existential horrors in one of the most charming Zelda games 😂
หลายเดือนก่อน +2
I really liked the addition of Null and the Tris to Zelda lore, giving meaning to the negative space in the Triforce that's been with us this whole time.
I'm sure it has been said before but not only is your narration second to none in its epicness but can we please talk about the new sequences that you created for this like Link tossing and turning in his bed in Suthorn Village? This is amazing.
There are questions that need answering. Like do the Golden Goddesses and Null only exist once out of all the timelines. Or is there multiple copies of them out there? Are they transdimensional or are there one per timeline...if so, then the other timelines have more Nulls to defeat.
If the timeline convergence theory is correct (that the timelines converged prior to the earliest events in TotK) it's likely the goddesses and null are transdimensional.
@@Vidiri Yet the triforce exists in all of the timelines as well indicating they may have been copied when time and space was rendered in a tri way timeline split. We don't know if they're the same or if they're separate entities entirely from one another.
It be cool to get new games from each timeline featuring Null. It would bassicly be an apolgy from nintendo, "hey, sorry you don't like the story ending to the timeline, we'll visit the other branches again before moving forward"
This is the first time I've heard a theory for the empty part of the Triforce that didn't feel forced. Also I'd like to add that the way your videos flow from one section to the next is so seamless that me watching five minutes before bed turned into a half an hour.
Fun fact! If you talk to Condé with the cloak on, he'll tell you that he recognizes it as the same one worn by the person who saved him from one of the rifts, which I think is a great detail :)
I had so much fun playing Echos of Wisdom. I wasn’t sure at first but the more I played the better the game got. This game took my heart. Or at least Conde did, I love that guy. I can’t believe you explained the game so well!
51:34 to me, almost every other villain is worth more sympathy. For example, ganondorf was the leader of the gerudo, wanting his people to thrive, but he needed power to achieve his goals, and his hunger for power is what eventually corrupted him to the point of no return.
2 mini theories: 1: I really think Null created demise. I mean, demise is said to have come from a rift in the ground, and his whole plan was to take the triforce. Not to mention, Null is the mirror of the Golden Goddesses, Null created Demise, and the Golden Goddesses created Demise's mirror, Hylia. Theres also the fact that Null was given the triforce of power, which has always been linked to Ganondorf, Demise's vessel. 2: I think i know why Null was missing from every single Zelda game until now. I think that, when he created Demise, it drained all of his power. A being of destruction creating something? Sounds difficult. Because of this Null just sat in his prison. Speaking of his prison, i believe it is the Sacred Realm. The sacred realm has always been the place where ganondorf was imprisoned, so seems like a good prison. It also explains how Null got his hands on Ganon's being to echo it. As we know, the sacred realm was turned into a wasteland by ganon, which im sure Null loved. The rifts opening up in a Link to the Past then probably gave Null more power, allowing him to start creating rifts again. Null then bided his time while the sacred realm broke down more and more over time, eventually becoming the still world. After an EXTREMELY long time, after all games in the downfall timeline (yes, even zelda 1 and 2), the land of hyrule has forgotten what evil is like, and Null is able to start his attack once again.
I disagree, I think that Demise did come from the void but Null didn’t create him. We know that life spontaneously sprung up in the void and after being sealed by the goddesses Null might have been to weak too consume the life that sprung up. This life would be Demise and his demons who could’ve made the rift to escape Null
Personally, I haven't seen anyone mention this anywhere at all on youtube, but doesn't the face of Tris, all of them, resemble Korok faces? It's not just me, is it?
I can't believe I hadn't noticed that, they really do :O I almost thought main-Tri (lol) reminds me of Midna/her mask because of the eye to mouth connection on one side, then the lone eye on the other. It's like her bare face (eye + mouth) and then the mask eye covering her second eye.
I want the next zelda to be more open than oot, but less open than botw & totk. With a musical instrument that let's you travel though time. Oot type of key items and a magic meter. 1998 feeling with future graphics, not the millenial feeling. A quarter of the map should be available from the very beginning, and with very clever and very difficult sequence breaks half of the map should be available from the very beginning.
Null eating the world adds alot of context to link between worlds. And why lorule is slowly devoured without its triforce.
Ooh, that's an interesting thought.
So could HYrule destroy its triforce now? Maybe it could somehow bind to the Wild Era where Zelda looks like to have the full thing herself without even knowing it first.
@@Wilson-gz1ls Given how limitless the wisher for the Triforce are it could be theorized that you could wish for them to be destroyed and for the wish to go through
@@nomad6169"I used the stones to destroy the stones"
@@nomad6169 I believe on this way the lorulians desytroyed theirs, but unlike hyrule they may still had their own null which then started to devour the world.
“Forget Null and the Golden Goddesses, Condé got his happy ending, and that’s what matters most.” For real. So happy for Condé. ❤
Null has a mask, seen at the end of the game! Those who wear it, instil Null.
you are right, i loved that part so much!
@@JimmyCall Can you tell me where I can find this?
how about capnut he got his happy ending too. able to sneak around as a guard which became his dream after being saved by a guaed, then people though he was an echo, then the general decides to let him join the kings army since he showed such detication.
@@theighthsage1282 The mask is on Null when you defeat him. It's the same face as a Tri, but grey/black.
The Tri's having the ability to create echoes explains how they repair rifts, placing copies of things destroyed.
On a greater level, this game's backstory could be used to explain how landmarks are moved between different installments of the series.
Oh shit, that's fascinating
🤯
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
And why most trees rocks etc are identical
nooooooooooooooooooooooooo stop it
Hi, I'm a chemist and a Zelda fan. The might crystals remind us of bismuth crystals, and it's funny that the theme of nothingness leaves these crystals since it is said that bismuth will be the last element to disintegrate since its half-life is millions of years. That could explain why when a rift closes, the only thing left is crystallized bismuth. Regards.
Oooh pretty !!
That's amazing, thank you for that!
bismuth is the best appreciate a chemist's perspective
I had to look this up because I half-life of a million years isn't really that long. uranium 238 for instance has life of 4.47 billion years, which is most of the estimated age of the Earth.
but it turns out the truth is even more interesting!
so naturally occurring bismuth, isotope 209, actually has a half-life of 19 quintillion years, which itself is longer than the estimated age of the universe.
This is all so cool, gotta love science 😍
The Triforce's failsafe mechanism was, again, the MVP of story. The Goddesses did a great job implementing it!
It adds so much value to the Ganondorf of Wind Waker. For him to be able to almost have his wish come true shows how great he is.
@@gabrielcontreras8209
An older, wiser Ganondorf is a force to be reckoned with
@@gabrielcontreras8209 I mean, it could just be that the failsafe only works if the person doesn’t just gouge the sacred power out of the bearers by force. It seems like assembling the Triforce yourself removes the authentication spell.
I'm starting to think they are programmers.
If you get Link's green tunic and talk to Condé while wearing it, you learn that Condé was stolen away at some point, and that Link was the one that saved him 💚
This is what Condé tells you: "Zelda, the clothes you're wearing... Condé has seen them before. Condé once fell into some of that dark gunk and was saved by someone who wore that! Condé can't remember much about it. But the sight of you in that makes Condé happy!"
He also says this if you talk to him in the disguise outfit
That explains how Conde is able to see Tri!
You can get Links outfit??!?
how do you get Link's outfit?
@@stoodmuffinpersonal3144 You have to complete all the Slumber Dojo challenges which is in Kakariko Village, but all of them don't unlock until you've cleared all of the bosses in the main game (except Null of course).
It just occurred to me that the Tris are the mechanism by which the Triforce works at all. The Triforce seems to be a conduit through which one can command the Tris into creation from pure will and imagination.
This has to be the ultimate goal of Null. In order to prevent creation, they must control it and ultimately destroy its controller, the Triforce.
This is ALSO why in Link Between Worlds why Lorule's world decayed after the destruction of ITS Triforce. Assuming its world was created in a mirrored situation with a mirrored Null, the world is being consumed when the lock to Null's cage was destroyed and the method of creation itself was obliterated by itself.
That's exactly what I thought
Null didn't really want to destroy the Triforce though, he just wanted to use its power for his own benefit
@@EmeraldMan25 yeah but it wanted to use it to destroy everything else. Its hard to imagine it wanting even the Triforce around after everything is destroyed, since it wants to be the ONLY thing to exist
One note that backs up your idea is how, the same moment the Triforce glows after Zelda and Link activate it, every single Tri imprisoned in Null begin to radiate with that same power. They all activate in response to the full activation of the Triforce.
>they
It or he. Null is a singular entity.
If you ever do an updated Link power rankings, i feel like this one should be at or near the top. He survives for who knows how long in the rifts without fading away or getting killed. He beats back the primordial void given form WITH A STICK! Aaaannnd, im pretty sure he is unkillable in the final fight against Null.
This may be Zelda's game, but they made sure not to do Link dirty. I love it.
He's also doing flips without a Roc item & has 500 rupees at the start of the game!
keep in mind, link is more devine than most hyrulians. he has the blood of the goddess Hylia in him (since he is a direct descendant of the original Zelda)
@@crazysilly2914 No? Zelda is the Direct Descendant, she has the Blood of the Goddess and Hylia's Bloodline is the Royal Bloodline
Link is just a random Dude that gets greatness thrust uppon him
Well we have to consider that Link is most likely only capable of doing permanent damage because the Might Sword is forged from the Crystals that are effective against Null and his Creation
If he would face Vaati with it for example he would be powerless
Near the top. He's only got a limited number of hearts for the... 10 minutes? That you play as him for. While it's a large number of hearts, compared to Hero of Time and Hero of Legend's abilities of Unstoppable Force and Immovable Object? I don't remember who came third but. Third place is the most this Link could be. He's killable at the start and unkillable at the end but that's because gameplay reasons.
But yes, this Link's powerful.
Zelda: “How long do I have to stand here?”
Zeltik: “Only until I get the perfect thumbnail.”
This is actually a funny comment
What music was used at that part anyway? I can't find it.
I had assumed that the reason people often couldn't talk or lost their memories after entering the rifts was because, as their bodies gradually faded with the Still World, so too did their memories. Rather than being traumatized, the experience would have left indefinite marks on them, like scars from a wound.
Can you imagine if Null had actually been able to completely destroy link instead of just taking his voice?
@@supagirl277 It's implied that Link being able to escape and move freely thereafter when in the Still World is because he was the hero foretold by the prophecy, just as Zelda was able to move through the rifts because she was the priestess. It's a somewhat scary thought that Link could have been (hehe) Null-ified by the Still World like the other Hyruleans, but for all we know that was an impossible scenario.
Adding Null as the negative space between the Triforce Pieces, and an opposite force to The Three Goddesses, is honestly a very nice balancing piece to the Hyrule Mythology. Because now The Three are Creation/Existence as opposed to Good/Light. Light and Dark, Good and Evil, these are represented by Hylia and Demise. And because both of them stem from Creation (Hylia was made and put in charge, while Demise simply formed and emerged), they both utilize the powers behind the Tri-Force. The Tri-Force doesn't care about Good and Evil, just that things exist. To the Tri-Force, Ganon's Dark World is just as valid as Peaceful Hyrule.
I dont know too much abot Zelda lore, but didnt the Goddesses intervene and flood the world the one time Ganon was about to win?
Remember in TP though, that the Tri-Force of power failed Ganondorf in the end, so it did indeed judge him as being unworthy.
@@bootlegbilly1 It was never stated that it was the golden goddesses who did that. Just the “gods”. Which could have been any gods, such as the Zonai, who we know have the ability to generate infinite water from the sky (and the Tower of the Gods feels like a Zonai shrine).
yes demise, and the future forms he possesses (Ganon, and that tiny wind-witch dude I forget the name of)
@@bootlegbilly1 The three goddesses created Hylia as a guardian of the triforce. Which makes sense that the denizen of Hyrule would worship Hylia and not the 3, because the three golden goddesses left hyrule a long time ago to continue their cosmic journey, only to return again at some point. But since Hylia is always there in hyrule constantly, she is the actual diety that can help people when they pray to her.
Aonuma: "If Zelda was the hero, what would Link do?"
Also Aonuma: "The story will not establish any new lore."
Aonuma is such a prankster.
The game explains why all the landmarks (Ordinn Volcano, Hebra Mountain, Farore Forest, Gerudo Desert, Lake Hylia, etc) keep moving around: they fell in the void and the Tris didn't restore them exactly where they used to be
@@laytonjr6601 Something I totally missed!
Another thing that makes Demise and Null not related at all in my opinion are their plans they had once they get their hands on the Triforce.
Null wants to errase everything while Demise wants to create a world ruled by Demons
The one wants oblivion, the other wants hell.
I don't think that necessarily makes any direct indication. The way I see it, Demise could actually be unaware of Null's existence and he simply thinks it's his destiny to possess the Triforce and overthrow the gods. Maybe Null implanted the idea of the Triforce into his head and let him do with that knowledge as he would. The fact remains that regardless of their intentions, Demise came from a "fissure" and despises the gods, and Null makes rifts and despises the gods. That's the closest thing to an origin story that we've EVER gotten for Demise, and I don't doubt that the writers wanted you to make this connection.
Though the Question Remains, if Null creates Demise and Demise creates Demons, why can't Null create the same Demons? Why can he only create Echoes?
And why is his huge outbreak happen just now alongside the appearence of the other Monsters?
This only means Null is actually unable to create Demons on his own and even fails to free himself for eons - that is until he gets his hands on the Powers of a... certain Individual - Ganon, the Heir of the Demon Tribe's throne.
@@Chris-gx1ei Yeah, I thought about that as well. We truly don't have any indication that Null can create things that aren't echoes and that's the biggest problem with the potential connection. Though echoes COULD explain the seemingly-infinite number of monsters/demons that Demise and his successor(s) can call forth, because the origins of the Demon Tribe were never expressed either.
@@GameMasterKyro
The other thing might simply be that Ganon and Demise do have their limits because their monsters are first weaker than Null's Echoes and second they cannot respawn them constantly - especially Ghirahim could simply have spawned countless Bokoblins - which he didnt probably because the suply of Demons to summon is limited and he cannot constantly revive them - which explains why they revive in the Night of a Bloodmoon, because that gives Ganon the Fuel to revive the fallen Monsters.
Null may theoretically be also limited in how much he can spawn at once, though he has a Different Situation...
If an Echo made by Tri dies, Zelda can inmediately spawn a new one, no wait until a Bloodmoon or a Black Sun or any other form of Eclipse.
The Monster dies, the Triangles return and Tri can simply spawn a new Monster.
Basically Demise/The Demon Tribe has a limited Suply of Monsters but can spawn way more at once while Null is limited with the ammount of Echoes he can spawn, yet he can spawn them over and over again.
Its very clear that null cannot create things, he can only devour, even his echo ability isnt from himself, its from the tris he ate. Even the rifts are just the result of him trying to devour the world. So its very unlikely that null created demise and other demons..
He could possibly have influenced him though..
Tri going into eternal slumber lowkey brought a tear to my eye, made me think of Fi doing the same thing. They both even go through similar character development, being robotic and indifferent at first, but then showing semblances of emotion by the end
Thank you! I felt the same way. I was greatly saddened when Tri bade farewell to Zelda. Just like with Fi, Midna, and Ciela, you grow attached to these companions over the course of the game and thus it's disheartening to have to say goodbye to them at the game's conclusion.
Tri isn't robotic like Fi was, spewing odds of survival or such. Instead, Tri has an alien mind, a spirit who just doesn't understand its surrounding because they haven't lived around any people before (except more Tris). But as the game progress, Tri gets it, understand what happiness is and wish everyone to be happy too!
And that makes Tri probably one of the most loveable companion of the whole serie!
I think the Tris and Fi are kind of the same thing. Servants made by the goddess to assist the saving of Hyrule. So them going back to sleep made sense to me.
Fi doesn't actually slumber forever; we see in BotW and TotK that she's still in there, and still active.
I think the part that makes it just that much sadder is that Tri is the only one who was by Zelda's side the entire time throughout that journey. The only other who has the complete memory. Everyone else only saw fractions, or heard it secondhand. It becomes a story instead of a shared experience with someone. With Tri gone, Zelda becomes the sole primary source of her own legend.
I actually burst into tears at the picture of Condé's brother returning. I love Condé so much. My favorite character in the franchise. So sweet and pure. Such a good boy.
Trust me you’re not the only one
he's so precious 🥹🩶
It was SO refreshing to see new Lore and some Triforce action in this game. It was much needed.
Yeah I feel like Echoes of Wisdom satisfied my Zelda lore itch that BOTW and TOTK couldn't scratch.
I was the opposite, TOTK added alot of depth imo. Echoes wasn't bad all, it just kinda hit a very surface level imo, possibly because the game felt extremely short.
@@adamant_viewerSame. Just the story alone is so much more interesting & deeper:
@@adamant_viewer In addition to the Triforce returning, it was nice to have dungeons return as well. Echoes of Wisdom made me realize just how much I missed having traditional Zelda dungeons, with A Link Between Worlds being the last game to have them, and that came out 11 years ago.
@superscott111 it took me over 30 hours to fully complete Echoes, the BotW and TotK ification of the Zelda fanbase has done some damage.
Link canonically just ripping and tearing through the still world is both in carachter and hilarious
21:49
-Comes in
-Says Zelda is "Special"
-Refuses to elaborate further
-Closes the rifts
-Leaves
This was the one game I had no lore expectations for. I came to terms with the fact that Nintendo prefers to rely on gameplay rather than lore and I’m ok with that. THEN THEY COME AND HIT WHEN WITH THE MOST INSANE LORE IVE SEEN RIGHT AFTER AND I LOVE IT.
It's amazing how poor a job TOTK did in terms of lore. Amazing game to play, but horrible to talk about with prior lore.
18:34 That makes sense. Null hates creation, and it is only with reluctance that Null creates echoes as a means to an end of destruction. Creating a new invention that didn't already exist would require imagination that Null cannot possess without fundamentally changing Null's worldview.
Few things in video games have made me happier than that one singular picture of Conde seeing his brother return. You are absolutely right: that IS what matters most.
I love seeing the Deku Kingdom and Sea Zora depicted as just off screen of the A Link to the Past map. It makes it seem that even though Termina is a parallel world, the biomes that make up it's map aren't that far removed from Hyrule
I wonder, is Termina actually a parallel world?
@@ianchristian2844 yeah, looking at eow's map, termina just seems like a kingdom where hyrule extend to back in mm right?
I've never seen the triforce like that, or even thought of it! That actually makes so much sense
It's not a new concept though it's still speculative here (I've only watched the intro)
@@mkjjoe it’s the first time I’ve heard about it, so it was really cool
Yea the tetraforce theory was around since alttp but it was more associated with hylia when she was introduced, I'm happy we got a new spin on it tho
I've heard of Tetraforce theories before (mainly people pointing at the OoT's Medallion of Shadow), but Null's hunger isn't quite a triforce of Shadow/Darkness.
It's not really a fourth part, it is only the emptyness contained within creation.
At the beginning of Skyward Sword, the storybook says: "One dark, fateful day, the earth cracked wide and malevolent forces rushed forth from the fissure." I never understood why or how this happened, but after playing EOW, I think these lines are describing a rift. It's mind-blowing to think that Demise came from a rift and that he might be somehow related to Null. It's also worth mentioning that during the final battle against Null, the theme that plays is a combination of the Echoes of Wisdom main theme, Zelda's Lullaby, and Ganon's theme.
It’s said that life spontaneously arose in the void, perhaps after Null was first sealed it was to weak too consume the creations of the void which were the demons
I thought exactly the same! Makes a lot of sense! 🤯
Demise and to a certain extent Ganon/Ganondorf being children of Null is an amazing concept. The Demon King born of the vast nothingness resting beneath the world itself
I disagree slightly with how you characterize Null as “amoral”.
Null’s actions and methods are evil. It seeks to dissolve/consuming everything against its will. BUT its motivations are amoral- Null doesn’t do this out of malice but out of an existential compulsion to seek a reality of nothingness.
Compare that to Ganon/Demise: Their motivations are conscious and malicious - they aren’t driven by some existential need, they consciously choose to pursue their goals.
TL;DR Whereas Null’s motivation is amoral + existential, Ganon/Demise’s motivations are just plain evil.
Evil to us, but he just wants his cozy home back that the goddesses took from him. The rest of what u say seems to be spot on
i was so happy when i finished the eldin dungeon and suddenly there was the voice of Din. i went into the game completely blind and didn’t see it coming at all - threw my right back into my ocarina of time nostalgia. i was happy about it for days.
41:52 Here’s a fun fact about Conde’s ability to also see Tri upon meeting the duo - which SPOILERS AHEAD…
After unlocking Link’s Green Tunic, if you return to talk to Conde while wearing the garb, he reveals that he was saved by an adventurer who wore the same outfit; thus confirming that Conde was saved by Link prior to the events of the game.
Also, I do recommend talking to Conde with other outfits post Lanayru Dungeon. The dialogue is incredibly wholesome.
Ok hear me out. When null gets annihilated at the end, he leaves underground a huge void that over time, life finds its way in. This is the origin of the Depths. Leftover might cristals from the final confrontation with Null became Zonaite over time.
That’s a sick theory
Very interesting theory.
Damn, you're cooking.
i like this! you could say that with the mirrored map the depths are a sort of ossified null echo of the surface world
That actually makes sense because of how Zonai-like all the Might stuff is
54:04 this little picture made me so unbelievably happy when I finished the game, Condé is too wholesome for this world
I think it's most interesting that it's Demise's curse itself that ultimately is the reason Hyrule is saved in this game. No matter what Null already existed and would've attacked to try and take the Triforce even without his curse. But because of the curse also needing to have a Zelda and a Link it ensured that there would be someone to fight against Null.
I'm pretty sure that Demise's curse doesn't ensure there is a Zelda and Link; there being a Zelda and Link is already assured by their incarnation cycles, and Demise's curse just ensures that there is usually a Ganon for that Zelda and Link to fight. There are Links and Zeldas even after Demise's curse is undone by the King of Hyrule's wish at the end of The Wind Waker.
so Demise screwed up null's plans.I'll thank him for saving hyrule when i beat him in skyward sword.
@@Zelda64-cj1 Not really. Demise's curse just piggybacks on the reincarnation cycles that Link and Zelda already had: "Those like you: those who carry the spirit of the hero and the blood of the goddess; they are bound to this curse", so there would have still been new Links and Zeldas without Demise's curse. Demise's curse just means there will often be a Ganon whenever there is a Link and a Zelda.
@@matthewmuir8884 I think Demise's Curse was more about there being some kind of evil to oppose the Hero and the Princess(Priestess?) and not just Ganon himself. The likes of Bellum and Malladus can be attributed to this. Like, Ganon's Theme is used when in relation to Bellum a few times in PH, and Malladus holds the title of "The Demon King".
@@trixaquilon2786 ...Okay. My point was that his curse relies on the fact that Link and Zelda would reincarnate anyway, so Demise's curse meant nothing in terms of there being a Link and Zelda to oppose Null as there would've been a Link and Zelda anyway.
41:45 We do actually learn more about this. When you talk to Condé after the Hebra Temple while wearing Link's hood, he mentions how someone with a similar hood, probably Link, once saved him after falling into a rift.
You called the placement on the timeline! Nintendo just confirmed it.
Void (aka emptiness) is one of the five elements in the Japanese philosophy of Godai. This is what Zelda is facing in Echoes of Wisdom. While Life is often referred to as the fifth element. Void is just as important. Void is what separates everything in existence this giving us the ability to distinguish one thing from another. Void can also be considered a necessity for creation as most religious believe in Chaos as a primordial being. Meaning emptiness (or the space between things) is what stopped Chaos allowing creation to take place by separating one thing from another allowing order into existence. Nayru is the Goddess that created law and order and is also the closest Goddess associated with Zelda from the Three Golden Goddesses.
Beat me to it! Great explanation
When you think about it, Null has gotta be the most terrifying Zelda villain probably since Majora. Other villains like Demise, Ganondorf, and Vaati just wanted to take over Hyrule, meanwhile Null wants to consume the entire world and turn it into nothingness. Not to mention that Null is, thus far, the only Zelda villain that's been powerful enough to capture the three Golden Goddesses.
Also that whole last area in Null's Body and final boss fight was some Eldritch horror shit and I loved it. Nice to see the Zelda team taking cues from past Kirby titles with a cutesy, almost innocent game with a terrifying final boss.
Yes Iwas thinking like..since when Kirby final boss cross over to a Zelda game 😂
Null did not capture the golden goddesses. He just sucked their holy lands into the still world, making it impossible for mortals to reach them. The goddesses themselves were never trapped. They existed on another plane of reality altogether.
I'm aware that Tri *says* Null captured the goddesses, but Tri was simply wrong. In order for Null to capture the goddesses by sucking them into the Still world, they would have to first physically be present in the normal world in order to BE sucked in, and we know that they do not physically exist in the normal world; they exist in the sacred realm.
I love the combination of Zelda music from all different games to underscore this video, the choices all work so incredibly well despite only occasionally actually being composed for the scenarios being talked about. Well done, Zeltik!
Bringing up the triangle in the middle of the triforce as its own separate triangle and power contained but other 3 is so simple and yet so ingenious.
The three goddesses created Hylia as a guardian of the triforce. Which makes sense that the denizen of Hyrule would worship Hylia and not the 3, because the three golden goddesses left hyrule a long time ago to continue their cosmic journey, only to return again at some point. But since Hylia is always there in hyrule constantly, she is the actual diety that can help people when they pray to her.
the negative triforce being null , it's so good to see fan theory come back in a form, wether the dev knew about it or not, but i really life the symbolism it gives to the triforce itself, you made me realise the 3 triangle are encircling the void , like they do with the created world. so good. I think echoes of wisdom established new lore that makes the lore even more interesting, i hope they use this in future games too (as in that this stick as lore stuff and doesnt get forgotten)
That thoery is wishful thinking, or trying to make something of nothing. But hey you do you boo
@@thesis-and-nieces6722 Did you know that lore is built upon over time and not all static from the moment of it's initial creation?
Reminds me of the theory that Majora is a golden god that's represented by the inverted null piece.
The developers are well aware of the “tetra force” fan theory, they redesigned the Hylian shield and removed the 4th triangle specifically to debunk it. Giving it a nudge-nudge wink-wink was very much intentional on their part
Playing the Twilight music when you showed footage of the still world was chilling.
The Creation of the World story in Echoes of Wisdom is what makes this zelda game so DAMN rich and more INSANE ever since Hylia’s struggle against Demise (or Bringer of Demise in Japanese)in Skyward Sword.
bro just wants his void back
That all changed when he had the taste for the Triforce of Power and got greedy and only wanted to have more.
@@EnchantedSmellyWolf as most do when they get power they have no need for
Hollow Knight moment
Null was here first! All these people just moved in and killed him. And somehow Null is the bad guy? Smh
@@Goobious_Maximus dude right they took his place and hes just salty
The German name for Null is pretty cool, too. It’s Nihil, the Latin word for nothing. I love it when Nintendo does stuff like this!
I'm Dutch, i did not know that! :) In Dutch Null means the number zero.
I was completely caught off guard by Darston. The very first bearded Goron I ran into in the Still World, I automatically assumed THAT was Darston. I was not expecting a little nerdy guy with a slab.
So, when the cutscene revealing Null was happening on my sisters first playthrough, I was in the room and she jokingly said (before the text box revealing the name) “It’s Knull.” In reference to the Marvel character. The two seconds later the text box said “It’s name is Null.”
WE LAUGHED SO HARD
This origin also explains why the goddesses have been before so ruthless in making sure Hyrule remains.
All that’s left for me is just even a touch of why the goddesses care about it. They don’t live in the world, so why is its perpetuation so important?
Could be a motherhood allegory. The goddesses felt the inescapable need to create, and then to protect their creation.
The Goddesses pretty much only create never destroy. They could have destroyed Null but decided to imprison him in their creation.
@@Novarcharesk inhuman things don't need human motivations. They could derive their purpose only from supporting the thing they made; maybe they're just pissed someone is trying to break their game board. Who knows.
@@Abigail-hu5wf the need to propagate isn’t a human thing. It’s an ‘everything’ thing.
49:00 not sure if it's intentional here, but that 2 dots and a dash pattern could be interpreted a bit differently. if you have 3 tris, you have three dots, three dashes, and three dots. so a morse code SOS signal. unsure if it's intended but it's not like nintendo hasn't pulled this sort of thing before
Is it weird to describe this as the most 3D Zelda a 2D Zelda has ever been? I don't even mean the gameplay. It just takes so many aspects from the characters, races, bosses, and lore elements from 3D Zelda games to create a 2D Zelda that has never been on the scope of one of the big 3D Zelda games before.
The oracle games came close before but this one does one-up them.
It's not 2D...
@@CZsWorld By 2D Zelda, they mean the top-down games, even if they are technically 3D. Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks would count as well.
One thing I thought was peculiar at the end of the game, right before the final battle with Null, is that some Moblins were seen turning gray and vanishing into the rift. This would seem to suggest that monsters don't have their source from Null, and come from somewhere else.
Also, I am wondering how in the world Zelda's cat got so big all of a sudden. When Zelda was attacked by Null and brought to the castle, her cat was averaged sized. But by the end of the game, the cat is massive! Taking up practically the whole bed.
I'm pretty sure that was just a camera perspective making the cat look bigger. It's still the same size
Monsters vanish in rifts too - to me, this is evidence enough that monsters/demons are unrelated to Null, and hence Demise is a separate being entirely to Null
Banger thumbnail mate!
L O R E
@HyruleGamer what editing/ recording software do you use? I was wondering because I love your videos and want to start making my own Zelda videos, but I do not know where to start.
This game was so refreshing from a narrative perspective. Botw/Totk are great, but the way they tell the story in such a disjointed way through random memories has always been a huge detriment to the storytelling of those two games.
Link saved Conde at some point from the rifts. If you talk to him while wearing the disguise, he mentions someone else who wore that hood saved him when he fell into a rift.
I could just listen to Zeltik's voice forever... so calming yet so powerful with each word
I'll always come back to videos I've listened to prior just to relax
Thanks again for another amazing video!
Before I watch the video, I just want to say that Echoes of Wisdom’s story is AMAZING!!! Very well written and executed phenomenally within the game!
And we’re back, now I have something to listen to while I work on my college art assignment
12:40 If you go talk to Minister Lefte after freeing Link, she actually mentions why he went at that time.
"But they were all of them..."
Deceived?
"Extinguished"
oh
I read that in Cate Blanchett’s voice 😂
Nah cuz i literally said that out loud watching it 😂
Conde is my new favorite Zelda character
You and half the fandom.
hes very cute, isnt he?
@@damsonrheaI hate him ngl just the 3rd person talking he's like a damn dog, but that's just me
@@Row_dogironic with your PFP lol
Conde spinoff when, Nintendo?
I love the idea that the swordfighter form is a power of Zelda's to mimic skills/knowledge she wouldn't normally have. Seems like a fitting ability for the priestess of wisdom!
Theory: The goddesses needed Null to consume the Tris to make the force of Nothing into a material being that could be destroyed.
Zeltik pointing out the Tris trapped inside Null’s body at the end of the game made me notice how much mirroring there is between Null’s design inside his body and the Tris. Particularly the double helix DNA design. The staff that Tri gives Zelda is also a double helix, but shaped into a staff harkening to perhaps DNA as the blueprints of creation, which Zelda collects and then creates through the power of a rod embodying DNA blueprints.
But why would Null, the antithesis of creation and matter, be filled with DNA.. unless the body came from consuming Tris who create matter?
This also makes me wonder about what Null was in the Beginning if not a physical body, and what it was at the end that we fought and destroyed.. and how. If the game implies that the power of all the Tris commanded by the power of the prime energy are able to defeat Null, I wonder why the goddesses wouldn’t have been able to do that at the beginning of time? Why is it possible now?
Perhaps because Null didn’t have a body to be destroyed when the goddesses trapped him. Just a force, an opposite entity to what they were. But in their foresight, maybe they knew to defeat Null, that Null would have to be tricked into wanting to consume the Tris, become embodied, and seek out the power of the Triforce in order to be possible to destroy. While the Tris mend the rifts, they’re also enraging and baiting Null into consuming them. Therefore, while it seemed like Null was 2 steps ahead of the heroes, the goddesses were 10 steps ahead of Null - using his greed against him to trick him into becoming material- the opposite of his nature, in order to ultimately destroy him.
I don't think it's the case that the Goddesses *couldn't* destroy Null; I think it's that they *wouldn't* destroy Null. They are goddesses of creation. Destroying something is anathema to their very being. If they destroyed Null, then they wouldn't be the Golden Goddesses.
@@Celestia282 perhaps it’s a choice. But if the choice is because destruction is the antithesis of creation I wonder if we’re getting into semantics here. And it brings us into some pretty age old theological debates about whether an all powerful god that is the embodiment of good is capable of evil. Are they capable and choose not to go against their nature? Or does their ultimate nature render them incapable? Personally I think that debate may be beyond the scope of this video game but maybe not!
But I can certainly see how the reason behind imprisoning Null vs destroying Null is due to their very nature as opposed to a lack of power. However, I like viewing Null as a powerful primordial entity on the same playing field as the goddesses - more of an equal opposing force that threatens the limits of their power as opposed to a lesser being that they chose to let others take care of.
The Condé history broke my Heart
not to be that guy but at 29:40 vocavor probably isn't based on an isopod; it reminds me a lot more of anomalocaris (an extinct animal) or a fairy shrimp
It gives me Opabinia energy, personally!
@@Glory2Snowstar i can definitely see that too!
What a legendary retelling of a legendary game. You not only did it Justice, but elevated it to another level
(3:59) "How exactly Null is related to Demise is still an open question..."
I may have found an answer from TV Tropes' Fridge page:
"In Skyward Sword, Demon King Demise's name in Japan is Shūen no Mono, which is roughly translated as "Person of Demise". In France, Demise's name is Avatar du Néant (Avatar of the Void). All of the alternate names suggest that Demise is a personification of nothingness or destruction, not just a demon king. And guess what Null is? It's nothingness and destruction, and it's imprisoned at the core of the world by the Golden Goddesses. And then there's the fact that Demise and his Demon Army came from a crack in the ground, just like how the rifts form from the ground."
A connection that I think is interesting is the language that Null uses is very similar to the language used in Majora’s mask when talking about the moon. After summoning the giants at the end of the game the moon even says “I shall consume everything”. It could be that Majora is harnessing some of Nulls power to destroy Termina. It has some cool implications imo
Who would thought a cute and silly looking zelda game would have such big lore drops?
Biggest since SS
(I’m replying before finishing the video, so if I’m super wrong I delete lol)
I feel like the lore drop, while cool, really isn’t “that” impactful. It’s basically showing a reason the 3 Goddesses created the world; but that’s really it. Cool, but not really adding too much. (If I’m wrong, I’m sorry lol)
@@mobes8876 it adds an existential villain beyond even Demise. Demise and his incarnations are a lineage of conquerors. Null is the end and death of all things, the return to nothingness, and the embodiment of nonexistence.
@@mobes8876 It's giving a whole new perspective to the series' cosmology, it doesn't need a ton of details to have huge impact.
@@riokollivier Want to hear a hot take? I really dislike Demise. As a standalone villain, he’s fantastic-great design, epic battles, and all that. But his impact on the series bothers me. The concept of the "curse" undermines the autonomy of the villains; they aren't evil by choice, but rather out of obligation. It strips away moral complexity and agency, which I really can’t stand.
On the other hand, I find Null to be an intriguing concept. It adds an interesting existential layer to the story, like you mentioned. However, I still prefer to view the villains as standalone characters rather than tied to a broader narrative. Honestly, I’m in the "lore doesn’t really matter" camp. Sorry for the lengthy response! lol
I have a theory of why Zelda is able to see Tri. Since Null can only really manifest aspects of the void, I offer that the crystal she was imprisoned in is like a minor pocket void for entrapping. This exposes her, thus allowing her to see Tri. Also explains why Link's arrows are able to break and destroy it.
Just finished the main story yesterday, i loved this game one of my favourite top down Zeldas for sure.
Great analysis of the awsome story, i was genuinely surprised at how engaged in this plot I became. The characters were all great and made me feel for there plight.
The amount of new lore was awsome too, playing as Zelda and getting to interact with the golden goddesses for the first time and a great new antagonist in the form of the eldritch abomination that is Null.
It is now my personal head canon that Lorule's slow disintegration in Link between worlds was caused by that universes version of Null slowly breaking free due to the destruction of Lorule's Triforce/Prime energy.
I love it when a new Zelda game gets the Zeldatubers theorizing/talking. Bring on all the lore and theory videos!
I think that I speak for everyone who watches you when I say this: your dedication to make incredible videos is truly a gift. Thank you!
So basically, with almost all of the other Zelda games, Null has been there just chilling down in the core of the world? Thats horrifying
It's no wonder the Golden Goddesses have been absent unless the world itself is threatened. They're more concerned about Null's cage remaining intact (and by extension the Triforce, so the Tris have the power to keep doing their job)
No, EoW takes place in a different timeline altogether. The lore of the game proves it. In the main timeline, it was Demise that was just kind of there at the beginning and opposed the goddesses. In EoW timeline, it was null. It can't be both, so the logical explanation is that these are different timelines. Not different branches like the Adult and Child timelines, but more like totally different trees rather than different branches of the same tree.
Your understanding of demise isn't accurate.
When I first start playing the game, I notice a statue of a Loftwing. Whether or not this is a reference to Skyward Sword, one thing is clear: the Kingdom of Hyrule hasn’t forgotten the events that followed Hylia’s battle against the OG demon King and his demon tribe, and Denise’s defeat by a hero chosen by the Goddess reincarnated as the first Zelda.
Tertraforce theory alive and well in 2024 was not what I would have expected from this game
also done really well, since it's not just another piece of the triforce that is evil or something like that, it's literally the void left inside the three pieces
I've been overwhelmed by a retroactive pride
Was this the original intention? No
Am I going to say "I've waited 10 years to say, *I Told You So* "
I’m not going to watch this video until I play EoW. I just wanted to say that it’s good that this game has an hour of lore to go through. Very encouraging.
Spoiler: Princess Zelda died. 🙂
I have a crazy theory. hyrule is shown to constantly change landscape throughout the games. Yes it’s because of time but what if some rifts successfully destroy land that gets pulled in and the tri’s repair the rift and create a brand new landscape to replace it. It does say anything that stays in the void for a long time fully decays so it’s possible. (And the tri’s share some of the gods power so if they can repair literal cracks in reality I’m sure they to can make land too just not at the same scale of the three goddesses) It’s just a theory but it does explain hyrules constantly different landscape across the games.
That's a cool idea. What if the Tris don't actually remember the landscape, so they make a rough imitation. And over the centuries, more gets changed around, creating a Ship Of Theseus situati
The video was great. Excellently told recap and spot on analysis. Listening to you continuously say Lefte and Wright with a straight face (voice?) like they're not ridiculous puns was absolutely hilarious.
This Zeltik lore explanation made me feel like I didn’t just play a Pokémon-type Legend of Zelda game made for 8 year olds: thank you for reinvigorating me, sir.
Didn’t expect existential horrors in one of the most charming Zelda games 😂
I really liked the addition of Null and the Tris to Zelda lore, giving meaning to the negative space in the Triforce that's been with us this whole time.
I'm sure it has been said before but not only is your narration second to none in its epicness but can we please talk about the new sequences that you created for this like Link tossing and turning in his bed in Suthorn Village? This is amazing.
We’re back to some creative and epic Zelda lore! Nintendo still got it. Null reminds me a bit of Morgoth
There are questions that need answering. Like do the Golden Goddesses and Null only exist once out of all the timelines. Or is there multiple copies of them out there? Are they transdimensional or are there one per timeline...if so, then the other timelines have more Nulls to defeat.
I think they exist only once out of all timelines.
If the timeline convergence theory is correct (that the timelines converged prior to the earliest events in TotK) it's likely the goddesses and null are transdimensional.
@@Vidiri Yet the triforce exists in all of the timelines as well indicating they may have been copied when time and space was rendered in a tri way timeline split. We don't know if they're the same or if they're separate entities entirely from one another.
It be cool to get new games from each timeline featuring Null. It would bassicly be an apolgy from nintendo, "hey, sorry you don't like the story ending to the timeline, we'll visit the other branches again before moving forward"
37:04
Null, devourer of existence: 0
Link with a club: 1
Link. Wins!
I really love all you guys that have so much heart into the story behind games like this. It really makes me enjoy them even more! WELL DONE!!
The sad thing is Tri's departure was in itself an 'echo' of how when Fi returned to the Master Sword. WHY DOES EVERYTHING LEAVE THEM. Ahsdjkfhds
I finally finished and 100% all of the game yesterday and it was phenomenal.
11:39 Shoutouts to the playable Link glitch for allowing that footage to be captured!
I’ll return to this at a later time, I’m still playing it
Wonderful watch! Good script and complimenting video footage too!
Tfw the small 2D title has a way better story than the last big 3D one
I still want to see a Ganondorf story, where hes born in the Gerudo but still not corrupted by ganon and the triforce of power,
Some real nature vs nurture stuff you could do with that, like Parthurnax in Skyrim
54:15 possibly the best opinion i’ve ever heard
This is the first time I've heard a theory for the empty part of the Triforce that didn't feel forced.
Also I'd like to add that the way your videos flow from one section to the next is so seamless that me watching five minutes before bed turned into a half an hour.
Fun fact! If you talk to Condé with the cloak on, he'll tell you that he recognizes it as the same one worn by the person who saved him from one of the rifts, which I think is a great detail :)
I had so much fun playing Echos of Wisdom. I wasn’t sure at first but the more I played the better the game got. This game took my heart. Or at least Conde did, I love that guy. I can’t believe you explained the game so well!
I have literally been waiting for you to make this video! So glad you did!
51:34 to me, almost every other villain is worth more sympathy. For example, ganondorf was the leader of the gerudo, wanting his people to thrive, but he needed power to achieve his goals, and his hunger for power is what eventually corrupted him to the point of no return.
2 mini theories:
1: I really think Null created demise. I mean, demise is said to have come from a rift in the ground, and his whole plan was to take the triforce. Not to mention, Null is the mirror of the Golden Goddesses, Null created Demise, and the Golden Goddesses created Demise's mirror, Hylia. Theres also the fact that Null was given the triforce of power, which has always been linked to Ganondorf, Demise's vessel.
2: I think i know why Null was missing from every single Zelda game until now. I think that, when he created Demise, it drained all of his power. A being of destruction creating something? Sounds difficult. Because of this Null just sat in his prison. Speaking of his prison, i believe it is the Sacred Realm. The sacred realm has always been the place where ganondorf was imprisoned, so seems like a good prison. It also explains how Null got his hands on Ganon's being to echo it. As we know, the sacred realm was turned into a wasteland by ganon, which im sure Null loved. The rifts opening up in a Link to the Past then probably gave Null more power, allowing him to start creating rifts again. Null then bided his time while the sacred realm broke down more and more over time, eventually becoming the still world. After an EXTREMELY long time, after all games in the downfall timeline (yes, even zelda 1 and 2), the land of hyrule has forgotten what evil is like, and Null is able to start his attack once again.
I disagree, I think that Demise did come from the void but Null didn’t create him. We know that life spontaneously sprung up in the void and after being sealed by the goddesses Null might have been to weak too consume the life that sprung up. This life would be Demise and his demons who could’ve made the rift to escape Null
Echoes of Wisdom was the perfect next Zelda game. Perfect mix of modern and classic Zelda gameplay, and an awesome story to boot
Personally, I haven't seen anyone mention this anywhere at all on youtube, but doesn't the face of Tris, all of them, resemble Korok faces?
It's not just me, is it?
I can't believe I hadn't noticed that, they really do :O
I almost thought main-Tri (lol) reminds me of Midna/her mask because of the eye to mouth connection on one side, then the lone eye on the other. It's like her bare face (eye + mouth) and then the mask eye covering her second eye.
This was surprisingly one of my favorite Zelda games yet lol, I loved the story!!
I want the next zelda to be more open than oot, but less open than botw & totk. With a musical instrument that let's you travel though time. Oot type of key items and a magic meter. 1998 feeling with future graphics, not the millenial feeling. A quarter of the map should be available from the very beginning, and with very clever and very difficult sequence breaks half of the map should be available from the very beginning.