This is such an untapped market... I personally haven't seen anyone from the like 2005 era really give a behind the scenes/talk fully about events/random things happening/how players were and such.... So dope to hear one of the best to do it dish out some lore
@@2gre hey man just saw the list on Twitter. I spent the last 4+ hours reading tweets and replies. The list is an absolute joke and to think these people might have input on infinite is scary. I am an old head and been watching since one and still play halo5. So they can’t tell me i been out of touch with halo. When halo mattered you guys owned!!!
With regards to the discussion about people coming out to every event and making nothing but still loving it, my memories of competing in those older events will be with me forever even if I was just playing in open bracket. Being around that many people who loved the game the same way you did was special, man. You don't find that anymore.
This is my argument as to why I elevate h2 and h3 wins over the rest. A strong interactive amateur scene is the signs of a healthy game and league. There were H2 tournaments all over the place. Now all I can find locally are Call of Duty tournaments.
I can't think of a more incredible duo in gaming then the two of you. It was as if the both of you had a psychic connection, when entire matches would be dominated by just the two of you, fragging and assisting out of your minds. Nobody could touch the Twins! All of you from the 2005 scene, though you probably didn't know it at the time, were making history playing the game at such a high level, and inspiring the massive takeoff of esports and professional gaming as a global phenomena.
please make more videos like this with your brother. there’s not many interviews or videos of you guys actually just talking. love to hear more from you guys.
Just learned about the ogre bros while watching HCS this weekend. I'm 26, lifelong halo fan bc my older brothers bought Xbox and CE when it came out. I was like 6. So growing up i didn't really understand the competitive scene and didn't keep up with it but halo 2 and 3 were my life in jr high. Anyway man it's apparent you guys are legends and love how you're posting again. Can't wait to keep learning about halo competitive history and its roots. Hope halo is still something you both get to enjoy, i know it will always be something i hold dear in my life
I feel like Naded should be on this list. Its such a crying shame that man never won a event. He always placed high at tournaments across 6 different Halo games (if you want to count 4) which has to say something about the dudes skill and being one of the GOATs.
Our Halo 2 Clan, Stick Up Boyz, was number 2 to your number 1 back for the first several months of release until the cheats ruined matchmaking. Between yall, us, and DX, it was always a battle. Can't believe that was 17 years ago. We also used to play against you guys on Xbconnect during CE Era. MiniMoFo was my live gamertag, and Blood Angel was my Xbconnect tag. Hope yall are doing well.
It would be really nice to see OG halo pros get together to face off again. Seeing players play with their same teammates against their same opponents in the same game modes they competed in so long ago. Just to see who’s still better 13+ years later and how it would go. Being able to see the Ogre twins play Halo in a competitive setting again would be quite a rare and amazing thing. Seeing the rusty pro’s all with relatively no practice in years trying to beat one another.
Damn Dan's list is legit, his decision making and reasoning behind early days having more weight is why the top 3 of his list will never change for me. I got to meet all the team DOM guys at AGP6 I think that was 04 and they were all super cool guys. Good times. Edit: I've always been an OGRE fanboy and always will be, but KillerN is my favorite H1 player, I could point out his pov anywhere. His shot was so disgusting.
This is awesome! I agree with most of Ogre 1's thoughts! However I'd def put naded in top 20. His impact and consistency across halo was unreal, even if the tournament wins didn't work out. I'd also put Pistola 3rd.
I gotta ask man. How much were you playing in the beginning days of Ce? Like were you coming up with strats before the 1st big event even began? It's like you guys were in a whole other league compared to everyone else back. Surely you guys had a huge head start on some the early Ce teams. This would definitely be a great topic for a video of how you got started and what made you so freaking beast.
You need a regression analysis on the placings and then to throw out a certain amount of "outliers". That along with actually determining what events should and shouldn't count will provide a more meaningful number analysis. Or just go off what everyone has seen and experienced with a strong understanding of the bias. You get into the weeds a lot when you start saying things like "well it's a real event that so and so placed bad in". Especially when it's their first real tournament or something, they probably went with suboptimal team members and were just trying to get recognized to get picked up on decent teams. It was a lot different back in the CE/H2 days. Less "established" teams and talent to crack into. Also, the argument goes both ways. In the early days Halo was extremely popular all across the US. So some of these events people didn't need to fly out because they could fill brackets and sell passes to purely local players since everyone in every town was into Halo. People that would never fly out to an event today. Also, this over saturation of players also meant that you had a lot of crappy players and teams also competing and getting demolished by actually talent players, inflating the perception of "competitive play" when in fact it was just a glorified public lobby for the real talented teams in many matches.
HCS should have just paid you to do the list xD ahh the early days... CS dominated the EU scene while Halo took NA. Esports at the time was really ahead of its time... fun fact - Quake I think was the first esport (i think) and was always there and probably the only PC esport with NA being the most winning region.
@@2gre I hear that. Pushing 33 and a dad now. I’ll grab my 2v2 partner and the Knights and Ogres can join forces to make team Milkmen & Plumbers. We’ll just have to make sure there’s ice, canes and Ovaltine for our brittle bones at our stations 😆
Really great listen. You two are the pinnacle of Halo. The “Yankees” of halo if you will. Played a few times with Ogre 2 on twitch. Super nice guy. I even got a kill or two on you once 😆👍
Best list I have seen for halo overall. The new halo 5 people just don’t understand final boss-carbon 2006/2007. Easily top 3 are Walshy and the ogres. I think ogre 1 got it right as well with the order of 2 1 Walsh. Only player I think he has low on this list is shockwave. Shockwave was clearly the best player in 2005/06
enjoyed the video, but it seems to get about who were the most overpowered teams (ie FB, EG) when you go mostly by wins. If possible, it would be good to weigh in the average placement on their own team for k/d or objectives, but likely not possible. I'm surprised the only player who has placed at least 2nd in each Halo was not in this discussion, and one of the most popular players historically to watch in both LAN events and on twitch since Halo 2 and still going strong. (you know I'm talking about Naded :)
He set criteria that mattered most to him, but can all be debatable! Dan said that Naded is the hardest one to place, because even if he had just won once, he would be high on this list. Definitely all up to personal opinion and what you feel is important, for the most part though!
Doesn't matter to me. I place my own list on individual skill and if you go by that not just team dominance, Snipedown Hysteria Neighbor need alot more love.@@SeventyVelle
I think your analysis is biased extremely. H2 & H3 is really where Halo took off the map, introduced MLG to the world. Remember Sundance Giovanni and Chris Puckett? I agree the Ogres are Goat, Walshy too what they did for the game but saying the height of Halo 3 where there were 2mil players on the server at once, cannot compare with CE...you telling me that amount of competition isn't worth it's weight in gold?
Hearing Fazel 2 surprised by H4 harsh rating does kind of crack me up a bit. I don't think people realize the magnitude that halo was played at during 2 and 3....and this is coming from s 24 year old. I am just more aware of the density back in the day as opposed to later reach and early h4. You had to fight through a lot more people during h2 and h3. Way more teams.
Where's Naded?!?! Love the algorithm used...but top 20 has to include Naded. Arguably one of the most skilled slayers that ever played the game. Longevity and 100k+ career earnings.
Two things to take into consideration. I will totally understand if I get flamed for this, lol. 1. I'm not sure if H2/H3 era should have more weighting than H5. H5 was different, and the competitive format of its first year and a half was utter garbage, yes. But it had a solid skill gap. After my opening to this statement, I realize why H2/H3 have more weighting. So take this just as something to consider. 2. Back in the day there used to be A LOT more LAN events, especially during the H2 era. Lethul, Snakebite, Frosty, and Royal 2 lost three times against Splyce, 2 against envy, 1 against EG. That's a similar number of losses as H2 Final Boss had against Str8 Rippin/Carbon, which I believe were 4 against carbon and 1 against Str8 Rippin. And still, FB has 12 more wins just in the Halo 2 era compared to Tox. Again, just something to consider.
1.) Weighting is up to the individual when it comes to game. So sure this argument could be used. 2.) There were not A LOT more events back then. In the 9 years from H1-Halo Reach there were an average of 6.88 events per year. In H5 for 3 years average there was 6.33. We are talking VERY similar numbers here.
@@2gre Very interesting fact. With back in the day I meant H2-H3 era, which now, after a lot of consideration, I do agree it should have more weight than any other era. In hindsight, I feel like this list is based on facts and it's pretty accurate. Also, there is no doubt on my mind you are the GOAT man. Can't wait for that video.
Yeah but when you've got the same number of losses in a game but 3x as many wins, that's a much higher win % in that game, a better statistic of dominance
Great video. The bias against halo 4 wins confused me. I listened to the explanation and I don’t see how making more money or having less teams(100 still seems like enough) matter.
@@joerowland9128 He can still hang with the best players - watch Ninja's Twitch Rival tournaments for h2 and h3. Naded was one of the better players out of everyone. Also, he was good enough to make it to the finals in EVERY HALO TITLE SINCE HALO 2. No other player has done that. Plus, just the respect he gets from other top players. He's one of THEE best to ever do it. Nobody else commands respect like he does.
I’ll never forget playin with y’all a few times in halo 2. Me you drilltit chode5mack shockwave strangepurple and a dude named chobo. We were so hype when we were rockin with STK
@@RuGra7zz Does Naded have event wins? Neighbor won a fair amount and was ranked best overall player in early H3, he also was high level in h2 for sure and maybe even Reach? I didn't want Reach or h4 so I don't know about those.
I respect you, and I def understand why you would put the names where they are, but we all know youre not number 2 on this list. What your brother and final boss did was amazing, but somewhere individual* performance needs to be taken into consideration.
Surely ACE beating Pistola in the 1v1 Global champs should put him up higher? I love Pistola but It's both of their skills directly against eachother and Ace won when it mattered. That's my only gripe.
Ogre 1 and 2 youre the goats but come on how do u not count h5? The skill gap is substantially higher than you probably understand have you studied that game extensively? How can you call it bogus? Sure early halo 5 was bogus but after everything was balanced nd movement became more advanced it completely changed the game its ridiculously difficult I can almost guarantee someone like a shotzzy or a frosty would be at the top of any halo if they put time into it.
@UTgohan um yes it does lol I barely have any time on halo 2 and halo 1 and played those games consistently for like 3 months and now I can beat players on there that are ridiculous without issue double shot is not hard man especially when u claw. H5 had crazier tech and harder movement and gun play. I'm not saying h2 or h1 is easy but it's way easier than modern halos. Halo 4 was a bogus halo but h5 was not a bogus competitive halo, maybe only in the initial release was it bogus with AR starts and OP weapons but not after the updates and new competitive settings.
@@UTgohanalso ogre 2 could not compete when he played h5... he didn't play well on it. In infinite he's actually okay. I'm sure he would be God like rn in infinite if he was in his prime and played with a team but h5 was just objectively the hardest most complex halo and he did not adapt yet calls it bogus also he probably only played h5 on bs ar starts settings if that's the case then I agree but that's not competitive h5 at all.
@@UTgohanI love ogre 2 he's the GOAT of all halo but this is the reality of his h5 career specifically. CLG made a roster change early in the Halo 5 lifespan, replacing Cloud with Frosty. After four Halo World Championship 2016 NA Qualifying cups together, the remaining members of CLG parted ways with OGRE2, marking the first time he had ever been "dropped" from a team. He joined Team EnVyUs a short time later alongside Mikwen, Arkanum, and frequent teammate iGotUrPistola. Team EnVyUs finished top 16 at the NA Regional Finals, failing to qualify for Worlds. OGRE2 then parted ways with Team EnVyUs during the post-worlds rostermania. After his short stint on EnVyUs, OGRE2 joined Denial eSports alongside Seduce, Arkanum, and Nemassist for the HCS Pro League online qualifiers. They failed to qualify for the Pro League at the Summer Qualifier, finishing 4th in their group. In the weeks following the event, Denial broke up, with Arkanum taking a hiatus from competing and Nemassist leaving for Soul eSports Red. On May 21, OGRE2 announced his (second) retirement from Halo competition on Twitter, presumably capping off his legendary career of over 13 years. Shortly after his retirement, OGRE2 revealed his intentions to stay active in the esports scene, particularly in Halo, though he did not specify in what regard. He casted the online Pro League Preview Tournament alongside Goldenboy and Walshy in his first full-time casting gig. In August 2016, he joined Evil Geniuses as a remote analyst. During the qualifying stages for Halo World Championship 2017, OGRE2 briefly came out of retirement, forming a team dubbed by the fans as "2gre's Daycare" with young players Saiyan, Shotzzy and Articc. Eventually, Shotzzy and Saiyan left for other opportunities, and the team folded. On February 23, OGRE2 officially came out of retirement, leaving his position as EG's analyst to take a spot on the active roster alongside Roy, Lunchbox and ContrA. His first event with EG was ME Las Vegas 2017, where they finished in the top 12 after losses to Team CryptiK and Splyce. The following week, OGRE2 and Evil Geniuses had one more shot to qualify through the Last Chance Qualifier, but they finished 3rd after losses to the same two teams. During the offseason, EG made changes to its roster, initially leaving OGRE2 on the sidelines. After UMG Daytona, Towey stepped down as coach and OGRE2 took over the position as head coach of a roster now consisting of Roy, Lunchbox, Falcated and Tapping Buttons. EG finished sixth in the Summer 2017 season, just enough to qualify for the Championship Bracket at DreamHack Atlanta, where OGRE2 coached EG to a top six finish. Making no changes to their roster, EG finished sixth again in the Fall season. At DreamHack Denver, EG finished in the top eight, prompting the retirement of Roy and the release of the remainder of the roster.
You are so correct man. This is exactly my thoughts Frosty and Shottzy are insane Halo 5 has an insane skill curve and I believe alot of people got really frustrated and simply quit because of it's difficulty lmao. Literally crying about it. Don't get me wrong i am a die hard Halo 3 guy came from the 2007-2010 Mlg championship era and Halo 2 introduced Halo and online gaming to me. I respect Ogres Halo CE dominance and Final Bosses H2 dominance. But we need to be real here H5 is hard to play. I legit think it is Halo 3's bastard king's son the way people treat it. Halo reach was a joke, Halo 4 was a joke, Halo Infinite is a joke. It's Legit Halo CE Halo 2, Halo 2A, Halo 3 and Halo 5. Sit on that yes i guess im biased but I go by individual skill also and not just team wins. Snipedown, Hysteria and Neighbor, Naded are legit up there...where's Neighbor??? He may have been a a-hole some people say lol but you can't lie about that dudes sniper. He was cold as they come.@@suppression2142
Funny as it sounds, I have FatRat as one of the greatest players ever. No titles or competition, but his gameplay is the most impressive I have ever seen.
@@jw7665 Fatrat told me he wouldn't do well against pros. However, Walshy said that FatRat was more impressive than he ever was. I am unsure what to think. I am certain however that FatRat has the most impressive gunplay I have ever witnessed. I have never seen anything like it.
@@sagebias2251 Thing is LAN vs live is very different, believe it or not. Fatrat is a good player and does impressive multi-kills, but that's against players way under his level. He wouldn't stand a chance against pros. Also, link me the vid/post with walshy saying that if you have it.
@@jw7665 You can find Walshy in the comments here. I understand what you are saying, but I have never seen gameplay this good. Even from Pistola or Neighbor. th-cam.com/video/69Oz7XBe0xk/w-d-xo.html
@@sagebias2251 Again, this is against literal noobs. He's using an alt acc and probably playing against level 1-5 players. If you want to see something similar in what a semi pro halo player can do, check out leqion. He did a 35-0 perfection. th-cam.com/video/aHNr_17TTU0/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=LEGIQN Fatrat is good but he's nothing compared to a pro.
You can't possibly think that HCE and H2 carry anywhere near the same amount of weight as H3-H2A and H5. During HCE and H2 you legit had maybe a few Orgs and players didn't or couldn't spend nearly as much time practicing because people legit Couldnt afford to maintain a lifestyle of just playing HALO. in H2A Starting and H5 ending teams scrimmed each other on a weekly basis non stop. TO Win EVENTS you legit had to be at the top and so when you look at Halo sure Historically you can give OGRES and Walshy and T2 and Strongside and Ela and Snipedown and Legit and all those players RESPECT and say they were the OG's but in No fucking way is OGRE 2 the greatest of all time. Not in skill and not in Tournaments that Really matter Walshy himself stated that. Snakebite and Royal 2 along with Lethal won 2 WORLDS and 3 Now so you wanna talk about the greatest of all Time better start with Royal 2 and Snakebite. The tournaments that Matter they Won. as Final Boss you guys didnt even win 2 back to back National Championships. So you want to be Objective then be Objective!! 2 Times BACK TO BACK WORLD CHAMPIONS And 3 World Rings in total, GOOD LUCK ARGUING THAT!!!!
I can argue pretty easily Obviously you have zero logic Halo 2 Anniversary was played on MCC. MCC was entirely broken online in 2014 So the pros couldn't practice 24/7 when the game wouldn't even allow them to get on So automatically that means halo 2 Anniversary was way less skilled then halo 2 and 3 Halo 5 only had an average of 50 teams 😂 Halo 2 in had an average of 180 teams per event between 2006 - 2007 The same for halo 3 So halo 5 was way less skilled then halo 2 and 3 since hardly any teams actually competed So Ogre 2 won in the golden age of halo which actually mattered So Snakebite and Royal 2 are mot the GOATs
Sorry this one is so long. Ogre1 brought up a lot of great talking points and goes into a ton of detail. I hope you all still enjoy!
I didn't watch the whole video but it would be cool to see who the best FFA player was from all the halos
@@brandonfrost6798 Would be fun to put together. Thanks for the suggestion!
@@brandonfrost6798 Hmm, maybe Karma?
@@Ra_heem Has to be Karma
It’s great cheers
This is such an untapped market... I personally haven't seen anyone from the like 2005 era really give a behind the scenes/talk fully about events/random things happening/how players were and such.... So dope to hear one of the best to do it dish out some lore
Will have to do some shorter Halo History like videos in the future. Thanks for the support
more people should, but gandhi did like a million videos about this
@@SouLAnimation Ah fair i was totally clue in to that !
@@2gre hey man just saw the list on Twitter. I spent the last 4+ hours reading tweets and replies. The list is an absolute joke and to think these people might have input on infinite is scary. I am an old head and been watching since one and still play halo5. So they can’t tell me i been out of touch with halo. When halo mattered you guys owned!!!
Go look through Gandhi's Halo History videos. Here's his 8 video halo history playlist th-cam.com/video/R2yGnsvFAmc/w-d-xo.html
We need a “Last Dance” documentary, ogre edition
yessssssss only problem is ogres are mike and kobe lol
With regards to the discussion about people coming out to every event and making nothing but still loving it, my memories of competing in those older events will be with me forever even if I was just playing in open bracket. Being around that many people who loved the game the same way you did was special, man. You don't find that anymore.
This is my argument as to why I elevate h2 and h3 wins over the rest. A strong interactive amateur scene is the signs of a healthy game and league. There were H2 tournaments all over the place. Now all I can find locally are Call of Duty tournaments.
@@TheWorldWithin27 halo tournaments in my area don't even exist anymore
I can't think of a more incredible duo in gaming then the two of you. It was as if the both of you had a psychic connection, when entire matches would be dominated by just the two of you, fragging and assisting out of your minds. Nobody could touch the Twins!
All of you from the 2005 scene, though you probably didn't know it at the time, were making history playing the game at such a high level, and inspiring the massive takeoff of esports and professional gaming as a global phenomena.
Wow thank you for the high praise. Feel thankful for being able to follow my passion everyday and inspiring others to do that same!
we need a halo podcast style sitdown with all the Halo OG's!
please make more videos like this with your brother. there’s not many interviews or videos of you guys actually just talking. love to hear more from you guys.
Just learned about the ogre bros while watching HCS this weekend. I'm 26, lifelong halo fan bc my older brothers bought Xbox and CE when it came out. I was like 6. So growing up i didn't really understand the competitive scene and didn't keep up with it but halo 2 and 3 were my life in jr high. Anyway man it's apparent you guys are legends and love how you're posting again. Can't wait to keep learning about halo competitive history and its roots. Hope halo is still something you both get to enjoy, i know it will always be something i hold dear in my life
I feel like Naded should be on this list. Its such a crying shame that man never won a event. He always placed high at tournaments across 6 different Halo games (if you want to count 4) which has to say something about the dudes skill and being one of the GOATs.
Yep, Naded was my favorite pro to watch.
I remember when I went to my local LAN and came across a young unknown kid named KGB Soviet. #1 for me
Our Halo 2 Clan, Stick Up Boyz, was number 2 to your number 1 back for the first several months of release until the cheats ruined matchmaking. Between yall, us, and DX, it was always a battle. Can't believe that was 17 years ago. We also used to play against you guys on Xbconnect during CE Era. MiniMoFo was my live gamertag, and Blood Angel was my Xbconnect tag. Hope yall are doing well.
It would be really nice to see OG halo pros get together to face off again. Seeing players play with their same teammates against their same opponents in the same game modes they competed in so long ago. Just to see who’s still better 13+ years later and how it would go. Being able to see the Ogre twins play Halo in a competitive setting again would be quite a rare and amazing thing. Seeing the rusty pro’s all with relatively no practice in years trying to beat one another.
I completely agree. I hope Halo Infinite has a good competitive scene.
Damn Dan's list is legit, his decision making and reasoning behind early days having more weight is why the top 3 of his list will never change for me. I got to meet all the team DOM guys at AGP6 I think that was 04 and they were all super cool guys. Good times.
Edit: I've always been an OGRE fanboy and always will be, but KillerN is my favorite H1 player, I could point out his pov anywhere. His shot was so disgusting.
This is awesome! I agree with most of Ogre 1's thoughts! However I'd def put naded in top 20. His impact and consistency across halo was unreal, even if the tournament wins didn't work out.
I'd also put Pistola 3rd.
This was really great to watch. Thanks for bringing back all those memories of watching you two dominate!
Watched the whole thing. It was amazing. Thank you.
I gotta ask man. How much were you playing in the beginning days of Ce? Like were you coming up with strats before the 1st big event even began? It's like you guys were in a whole other league compared to everyone else back. Surely you guys had a huge head start on some the early Ce teams. This would definitely be a great topic for a video of how you got started and what made you so freaking beast.
scott ghandi talked about the very beginning of halo back on the original xbox, definitely terrible quality but definitely look it up
The shit we need
Deep dive as much as you want. Lots of us love it
This just proves how intelligent these two are. We need a detailed breakdown on how they play each gametype (preferably h2 & h3).
I understand that's A LOT to ask for but I think a ton of people would benefit and even pay for that information.
I’m glad you guys mentioned Naded, but I think he needs a little more love, because he was elite from H2 to H5, which is really rare
Tbh naded is goated but he was not even top 20 in h5 this is the reality. Alot of these classic players could not adapt.
You need a regression analysis on the placings and then to throw out a certain amount of "outliers". That along with actually determining what events should and shouldn't count will provide a more meaningful number analysis. Or just go off what everyone has seen and experienced with a strong understanding of the bias.
You get into the weeds a lot when you start saying things like "well it's a real event that so and so placed bad in". Especially when it's their first real tournament or something, they probably went with suboptimal team members and were just trying to get recognized to get picked up on decent teams. It was a lot different back in the CE/H2 days. Less "established" teams and talent to crack into.
Also, the argument goes both ways. In the early days Halo was extremely popular all across the US. So some of these events people didn't need to fly out because they could fill brackets and sell passes to purely local players since everyone in every town was into Halo. People that would never fly out to an event today. Also, this over saturation of players also meant that you had a lot of crappy players and teams also competing and getting demolished by actually talent players, inflating the perception of "competitive play" when in fact it was just a glorified public lobby for the real talented teams in many matches.
HCS should have just paid you to do the list xD
ahh the early days... CS dominated the EU scene while Halo took NA. Esports at the time was really ahead of its time...
fun fact - Quake I think was the first esport (i think) and was always there and probably the only PC esport with NA being the most winning region.
It's so hard to make a Top 25. Your list is pretty spot-on, but I'd have Naded in my personal list.
It is hard for sure! You can definitely make a case for Naded and if he won (even just once) he would be on mine for sure.
being very local in my home town its nice to see Tsquared on your list around number 12..
bro listening to that hype track in the background for an hour was driving me insane
Oh dang sorry, thought I had it low enough to not distract. I'll keep that in mind for the future!
Lol same. Looooved the content. Did everything I could to ignore the music.
It's dope to see MimiC even in the charts here. Dude hopped in my chat once and just casually told me about his career.
Fantastic video!!
1. Ogre 2
2. Ogre 1
3. Pistola
4. Neighbor
5. Snipedown
Shockwave has never placed outside of the Top 3 at a National Championship, which means he should probably be placed higher imo
This is amazing. Thank you for sharing. Any chance I can get a share to this file?
Great video!
Ogres were like: Okay guys we’ll retire so someone else can win for once 😏
Gotta spread the love ;) also doesn't help we are now 35 haha
@@2gre I hear that. Pushing 33 and a dad now. I’ll grab my 2v2 partner and the Knights and Ogres can join forces to make team Milkmen & Plumbers. We’ll just have to make sure there’s ice, canes and Ovaltine for our brittle bones at our stations 😆
I think Dan's list is has the most thought put into it
agreed!!!
Really great listen. You two are the pinnacle of Halo. The “Yankees” of halo if you will. Played a few times with Ogre 2 on twitch. Super nice guy. I even got a kill or two on you once 😆👍
You two should start a podcast!
i dont know shit all about halo, but im ready for a part 2
Are these excel files available anywhere? Would be interesting to look through
Best list I have seen for halo overall. The new halo 5 people just don’t understand final boss-carbon 2006/2007. Easily top 3 are Walshy and the ogres. I think ogre 1 got it right as well with the order of 2 1 Walsh. Only player I think he has low on this list is shockwave. Shockwave was clearly the best player in 2005/06
Ogre's and H2 and Final Boss was insane
Best halo team ever
enjoyed the video, but it seems to get about who were the most overpowered teams (ie FB, EG) when you go mostly by wins. If possible, it would be good to weigh in the average placement on their own team for k/d or objectives, but likely not possible.
I'm surprised the only player who has placed at least 2nd in each Halo was not in this discussion, and one of the most popular players historically to watch in both LAN events and on twitch since Halo 2 and still going strong. (you know I'm talking about Naded :)
He set criteria that mattered most to him, but can all be debatable! Dan said that Naded is the hardest one to place, because even if he had just won once, he would be high on this list. Definitely all up to personal opinion and what you feel is important, for the most part though!
Legend!!
I saw an interview with you guys saying that halo three was a dumb down version of halo two can you explain a little bit more in detail about that?
I'm curious as to why no mention of Hysteria. Nobody liked him, but he was for sure the best H3 player at a point in time.
I thought that too but I think it probably came down to the fact he mostly was around for h3 and reach and never won a championship or anything.
Doesn't matter to me. I place my own list on individual skill and if you go by that not just team dominance, Snipedown Hysteria Neighbor need alot more love.@@SeventyVelle
Imagine if Ogre 1 didn't stop playing.
Nice I would have to say very close to how I would have picked the top 10
How about a halo CE top 10. Don’t care about these other halos with far lower skill curves. Halo CE 2v2 is so much more advanced.
I think your analysis is biased extremely. H2 & H3 is really where Halo took off the map, introduced MLG to the world. Remember Sundance Giovanni and Chris Puckett? I agree the Ogres are Goat, Walshy too what they did for the game but saying the height of Halo 3 where there were 2mil players on the server at once, cannot compare with CE...you telling me that amount of competition isn't worth it's weight in gold?
Hearing Fazel 2 surprised by H4 harsh rating does kind of crack me up a bit. I don't think people realize the magnitude that halo was played at during 2 and 3....and this is coming from s 24 year old. I am just more aware of the density back in the day as opposed to later reach and early h4. You had to fight through a lot more people during h2 and h3. Way more teams.
Is that google doc that Dan was showing with all the LAN placings publicly available?
It was made my Moses_fps on twitter
@@2gre Just found it, thanks GOAT!!
The GOAT has a TH-cam channel 👀 Insta sub.
Can you share this spreadsheet?
I thought Soviet won that 1v1 Nats over Ola in '07?
Didn't realise Daddy T only won 10 events, why so little for the best player in the game?
Because Final Boss took away his event wins
Where's Naded?!?! Love the algorithm used...but top 20 has to include Naded. Arguably one of the most skilled slayers that ever played the game. Longevity and 100k+ career earnings.
Two things to take into consideration. I will totally understand if I get flamed for this, lol.
1. I'm not sure if H2/H3 era should have more weighting than H5. H5 was different, and the competitive format of its first year and a half was utter garbage, yes. But it had a solid skill gap. After my opening to this statement, I realize why H2/H3 have more weighting. So take this just as something to consider.
2. Back in the day there used to be A LOT more LAN events, especially during the H2 era. Lethul, Snakebite, Frosty, and Royal 2 lost three times against Splyce, 2 against envy, 1 against EG. That's a similar number of losses as H2 Final Boss had against Str8 Rippin/Carbon, which I believe were 4 against carbon and 1 against Str8 Rippin. And still, FB has 12 more wins just in the Halo 2 era compared to Tox. Again, just something to consider.
1.) Weighting is up to the individual when it comes to game. So sure this argument could be used.
2.) There were not A LOT more events back then. In the 9 years from H1-Halo Reach there were an average of 6.88 events per year. In H5 for 3 years average there was 6.33. We are talking VERY similar numbers here.
@@2gre Very interesting fact. With back in the day I meant H2-H3 era, which now, after a lot of consideration, I do agree it should have more weight than any other era. In hindsight, I feel like this list is based on facts and it's pretty accurate.
Also, there is no doubt on my mind you are the GOAT man. Can't wait for that video.
Yeah but when you've got the same number of losses in a game but 3x as many wins, that's a much higher win % in that game, a better statistic of dominance
Great video. The bias against halo 4 wins confused me. I listened to the explanation and I don’t see how making more money or having less teams(100 still seems like enough) matter.
Because the game sucked ass and was designed for 5-year-olds.
Was HP Darkman better than Zyos? I never saw them 1v1
No.
I know he never really got a win but Naded is a better player than 75% of these players. And he's still playing. And is still amazing in ALL HALOS.
@@joerowland9128 He can still hang with the best players - watch Ninja's Twitch Rival tournaments for h2 and h3. Naded was one of the better players out of everyone. Also, he was good enough to make it to the finals in EVERY HALO TITLE SINCE HALO 2. No other player has done that. Plus, just the respect he gets from other top players. He's one of THEE best to ever do it. Nobody else commands respect like he does.
Great Commentary. The fade out music almost made my ears bleed.
Need to see you play infinite
I’ll never forget playin with y’all a few times in halo 2. Me you drilltit chode5mack shockwave strangepurple and a dude named chobo. We were so hype when we were rockin with STK
Also your brother
And no Neighbor??
Neighbor is the same boat as naded, godly skill but just cursed against event wins
@@RuGra7zz Does Naded have event wins? Neighbor won a fair amount and was ranked best overall player in early H3, he also was high level in h2 for sure and maybe even Reach? I didn't want Reach or h4 so I don't know about those.
WaLRosH is my #1
Did Walsh go 41-0 I don't think soo even tho I think walsh did more to make Halo bigger.. Id put him at 2
How is t2 that low??
Wins, he only won in Halo 3 and the first year was the only one that he won the National championship.
I respect you, and I def understand why you would put the names where they are, but we all know youre not number 2 on this list. What your brother and final boss did was amazing, but somewhere individual* performance needs to be taken into consideration.
Surely ACE beating Pistola in the 1v1 Global champs should put him up higher? I love Pistola but It's both of their skills directly against eachother and Ace won when it mattered. That's my only gripe.
Halo 4 takes no skill
That's only just a single 1v1
You can only take 4v4 seriously
Subs gifted 😂😂😂😂😂😉
Ogre 1 and 2 youre the goats but come on how do u not count h5? The skill gap is substantially higher than you probably understand have you studied that game extensively? How can you call it bogus? Sure early halo 5 was bogus but after everything was balanced nd movement became more advanced it completely changed the game its ridiculously difficult I can almost guarantee someone like a shotzzy or a frosty would be at the top of any halo if they put time into it.
H5 doesn’t compare to h2 or even h3 and ogre 2 used to enter h5 tournaments so I’m sure he knows the game
@UTgohan um yes it does lol I barely have any time on halo 2 and halo 1 and played those games consistently for like 3 months and now I can beat players on there that are ridiculous without issue double shot is not hard man especially when u claw. H5 had crazier tech and harder movement and gun play. I'm not saying h2 or h1 is easy but it's way easier than modern halos. Halo 4 was a bogus halo but h5 was not a bogus competitive halo, maybe only in the initial release was it bogus with AR starts and OP weapons but not after the updates and new competitive settings.
@@UTgohanalso ogre 2 could not compete when he played h5... he didn't play well on it. In infinite he's actually okay. I'm sure he would be God like rn in infinite if he was in his prime and played with a team but h5 was just objectively the hardest most complex halo and he did not adapt yet calls it bogus also he probably only played h5 on bs ar starts settings if that's the case then I agree but that's not competitive h5 at all.
@@UTgohanI love ogre 2 he's the GOAT of all halo but this is the reality of his h5 career specifically.
CLG made a roster change early in the Halo 5 lifespan, replacing Cloud with Frosty. After four Halo World Championship 2016 NA Qualifying cups together, the remaining members of CLG parted ways with OGRE2, marking the first time he had ever been "dropped" from a team. He joined Team EnVyUs a short time later alongside Mikwen, Arkanum, and frequent teammate iGotUrPistola. Team EnVyUs finished top 16 at the NA Regional Finals, failing to qualify for Worlds. OGRE2 then parted ways with Team EnVyUs during the post-worlds rostermania. After his short stint on EnVyUs, OGRE2 joined Denial eSports alongside Seduce, Arkanum, and Nemassist for the HCS Pro League online qualifiers. They failed to qualify for the Pro League at the Summer Qualifier, finishing 4th in their group. In the weeks following the event, Denial broke up, with Arkanum taking a hiatus from competing and Nemassist leaving for Soul eSports Red. On May 21, OGRE2 announced his (second) retirement from Halo competition on Twitter, presumably capping off his legendary career of over 13 years.
Shortly after his retirement, OGRE2 revealed his intentions to stay active in the esports scene, particularly in Halo, though he did not specify in what regard. He casted the online Pro League Preview Tournament alongside Goldenboy and Walshy in his first full-time casting gig. In August 2016, he joined Evil Geniuses as a remote analyst. During the qualifying stages for Halo World Championship 2017, OGRE2 briefly came out of retirement, forming a team dubbed by the fans as "2gre's Daycare" with young players Saiyan, Shotzzy and Articc. Eventually, Shotzzy and Saiyan left for other opportunities, and the team folded.
On February 23, OGRE2 officially came out of retirement, leaving his position as EG's analyst to take a spot on the active roster alongside Roy, Lunchbox and ContrA. His first event with EG was ME Las Vegas 2017, where they finished in the top 12 after losses to Team CryptiK and Splyce. The following week, OGRE2 and Evil Geniuses had one more shot to qualify through the Last Chance Qualifier, but they finished 3rd after losses to the same two teams. During the offseason, EG made changes to its roster, initially leaving OGRE2 on the sidelines. After UMG Daytona, Towey stepped down as coach and OGRE2 took over the position as head coach of a roster now consisting of Roy, Lunchbox, Falcated and Tapping Buttons. EG finished sixth in the Summer 2017 season, just enough to qualify for the Championship Bracket at DreamHack Atlanta, where OGRE2 coached EG to a top six finish. Making no changes to their roster, EG finished sixth again in the Fall season. At DreamHack Denver, EG finished in the top eight, prompting the retirement of Roy and the release of the remainder of the roster.
You are so correct man. This is exactly my thoughts Frosty and Shottzy are insane Halo 5 has an insane skill curve and I believe alot of people got really frustrated and simply quit because of it's difficulty lmao. Literally crying about it. Don't get me wrong i am a die hard Halo 3 guy came from the 2007-2010 Mlg championship era and Halo 2 introduced Halo and online gaming to me. I respect Ogres Halo CE dominance and Final Bosses H2 dominance. But we need to be real here H5 is hard to play. I legit think it is Halo 3's bastard king's son the way people treat it. Halo reach was a joke, Halo 4 was a joke, Halo Infinite is a joke. It's Legit Halo CE Halo 2, Halo 2A, Halo 3 and Halo 5. Sit on that yes i guess im biased but I go by individual skill also and not just team wins. Snipedown, Hysteria and Neighbor, Naded are legit up there...where's Neighbor??? He may have been a a-hole some people say lol but you can't lie about that dudes sniper. He was cold as they come.@@suppression2142
1. Totz
2. Gilkey
Funny as it sounds, I have FatRat as one of the greatest players ever. No titles or competition, but his gameplay is the most impressive I have ever seen.
FatRat and the other montagers wouldn't last vs the pros in this vid. It's a different level.
@@jw7665 Fatrat told me he wouldn't do well against pros. However, Walshy said that FatRat was more impressive than he ever was. I am unsure what to think. I am certain however that FatRat has the most impressive gunplay I have ever witnessed. I have never seen anything like it.
@@sagebias2251 Thing is LAN vs live is very different, believe it or not. Fatrat is a good player and does impressive multi-kills, but that's against players way under his level. He wouldn't stand a chance against pros. Also, link me the vid/post with walshy saying that if you have it.
@@jw7665 You can find Walshy in the comments here. I understand what you are saying, but I have never seen gameplay this good. Even from Pistola or Neighbor. th-cam.com/video/69Oz7XBe0xk/w-d-xo.html
@@sagebias2251 Again, this is against literal noobs. He's using an alt acc and probably playing against level 1-5 players. If you want to see something similar in what a semi pro halo player can do, check out leqion. He did a 35-0 perfection.
th-cam.com/video/aHNr_17TTU0/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=LEGIQN
Fatrat is good but he's nothing compared to a pro.
With all due respect ogre 1 isnt top 5, hes 6 to me but everything else i agree with. No longevity at all lol
How many times did he place outside top 8 like everyone else?
@@JGAbstract How many halos did he compete in?
@@Viroxity3 you dumbo
You can't possibly think that HCE and H2 carry anywhere near the same amount of weight as H3-H2A and H5. During HCE and H2 you legit had maybe a few Orgs and players didn't or couldn't spend nearly as much time practicing because people legit Couldnt afford to maintain a lifestyle of just playing HALO. in H2A Starting and H5 ending teams scrimmed each other on a weekly basis non stop. TO Win EVENTS you legit had to be at the top and so when you look at Halo sure Historically you can give OGRES and Walshy and T2 and Strongside and Ela and Snipedown and Legit and all those players RESPECT and say they were the OG's but in No fucking way is OGRE 2 the greatest of all time. Not in skill and not in Tournaments that Really matter Walshy himself stated that. Snakebite and Royal 2 along with Lethal won 2 WORLDS and 3 Now so you wanna talk about the greatest of all Time better start with Royal 2 and Snakebite. The tournaments that Matter they Won. as Final Boss you guys didnt even win 2 back to back National Championships. So you want to be Objective then be Objective!! 2 Times BACK TO BACK WORLD CHAMPIONS And 3 World Rings in total, GOOD LUCK ARGUING THAT!!!!
I can argue pretty easily
Obviously you have zero logic
Halo 2 Anniversary was played on MCC. MCC was entirely broken online in 2014
So the pros couldn't practice 24/7 when the game wouldn't even allow them to get on
So automatically that means halo 2 Anniversary was way less skilled then halo 2 and 3
Halo 5 only had an average of 50 teams 😂
Halo 2 in had an average of 180 teams per event between 2006 - 2007
The same for halo 3
So halo 5 was way less skilled then halo 2 and 3 since hardly any teams actually competed
So Ogre 2 won in the golden age of halo which actually mattered
So Snakebite and Royal 2 are mot the GOATs