Thank you INTO THE AM for these Elevated Everyday Graphic Tees! Get yours now and get 10% off site-wide when you click the link below: intotheam.com/DragonShirts WOO This video took a while to make. I had procrastinated making this for a long while. I hope you liked it! If you want to hang out in the future consider following my twitch! www.twitch.tv/jarek4gamingdragon EDIT: "This is just a tryhard doing mental gymnastics, CE Magnum is op, cope!" This is a long time competitive player explaining the Combat Evolved meta. This is how it is, it's not a theory, it's literally what you see every single game with players that understand the game. You do not understand the game like you think you do and are coping. I am trying to teach people about a game I love, now get good.
ooooohhhh I get it now So in halo two when they said that the trade off sheild was the strongest ever and made it out like it wasn't a trade off sheild, but stronger and faster reload, it's because the plasma rifles take more shots, so it's twice or so as strong and faster recharge, meaning four times stronger and five or six times more usefull (it was not six times more susefull, it ended up being as good or worse than halo one sheild.
Same. My memory of Halo CE multiplayer is like "lmao, warthog jousting" and rockets on prisoner. No one knew that you could use a grenade to order an overshield like Domino's, or that guns could double melee. We just knew how to magnum, screen watch, eat hot chip, and lie. (About knowing they were in the sniper nest in Prisoner from screen watching)
An interesting fact about the Magnum; it was buffed right in the final hours of development, basically via a hack, in a sort-of Hail Mary attempt to make it a viable weapon. It does kinda explain why it's able to one-shot Hunters so easily, I imagine before the hack Hunters were actually a threat and not a fun little treat. I rememeber the Halo 2 BR used the Magnum's HUD elements in early alphas, so I imagine the BR is a direct evolution of it game object wise like you say. Cool learning about CE's sandbox, didn't know most of this stuff.
Hunters are one-shot because their weak spot is a headshot-weak region. It has nothing to do with the Pistol’s strength other than its headshot kill capability. The sniper can one-shot it, too, for this very reason.
This is very telling of bungie. And 343 studios They never purposefully do something good. All of their Magnum opus ideas have been accidents. Owe it to the halo pistol and the quick time to kill high skill ceiling players to give us a real Hingham high Halo again no. Sprinting. More skill less auto aim. Tee hee Magnum opus
@@MachinedFace88ttv Well bungie sure had a really bad luck streak of "accidents" that just seemed to happen coincidentally. No, its not that they were masters of their craft, they just made one of the most popular sci-fi franchises ever by accident. And then they left Microsoft and made another highly successful sci-fi franchise by accident again.
I've always felt like CE is just "heavier" than the other games. I'm way too young to have enjoyed CE multiplayer so I've only ever played the campaign. While i feel like some things haven't aged super well in the story, specifically all the driving around, I personally love vehicle combat so i enjoy the driving but a lot of people I'll play with say it's boring... But the one thing i always felt was perfect in CE is the guns. I hate how in later Halo games they made guns either super situational or just straight up suck. CE is the only halo game i can pick up a plasma pistol and kill a whole room of enemies with it and I always felt that rocks. Just the small things you point out here made me realize that, like how the plasma rifle melts through enemies and feels heavy but in later games good luck killing anything that isn't a grunt before it over heats. Idk it's just fun playing Halo where I'm not just rocking the battle rifle/DMR the whole time.
Yeah they nerfed the guns more and more with each game, it feels really bad. CE is when all of them were at their strongest (aside from maybe the Needler, which is still usable at least). I grew up with CE and it's the first thing I notice when I try other Halo games, the guns just suck (I tried Reach recently and holy shit the AR is borderline useless). And if you're playing a first person shooter, where half of the point is to shoot things... the guns should be fun to use, or your game isn't really that great. I think the difference between CE and the other games is that the guns can be at a disadvantage in some situations but still usable, whereas in other games, using a weapon outside of its sole intended situation will result in it being entirely useless. I've noticed that with the Shotgun too in any other Halo, it just does not do anything outside of sneezing distance. The CE Shotgun can do some very impressive damage even at mid/long range, even if alternatives weapons are still better at that. I really love that about it. It's the only game I've played that has a convincing shotgun with an accurate effective range.
@@Banshee523 not only did they nerf the damage in reach, but then they made the ammo count so low that it literally can't kill enemies on higher difficulties, lmao.
For when the game was released, the driving was amazing. Seamlessly getting in and out of vehicles was revolutionary to me at the time. In those days, shooters with vehicles would have a separate "vehicle level" or segment that was predetermined. I didn't have enough friends to play with more than 4 people in CEs multiplayer as online was not a thing and LANs were not something I had the opportunity to do. Didn't stop us from playing blood gulch though!
This was probably to increase play time, due to low damage = more time to kill stuff. While it's a sound way to make a smaller, easier to mass produce, and quicker turnaround from the last drop game, it does prevent the one thing players desire: good gunplay/gameplay.
Honestly, CE actually nailed the weapon balance. They're all viable and powerful. H2 and 3 were a little too BR-focused, which kinda detracted from the multiplayer experience IMO.
for me, a lot of the knocking on the CE magnum in my groups comes from people who simply never saw utility in any of the other weapons for reasons ranging from 'Gearbox Port' to "I never play on maps with corridors"
I played the original PC release for years and I don't remember anyone complaining about the magnum. All the weapons are pretty well balanced in Halo CE (except the flamethrower because it's trash)
Man it's just the sheer fact that the Halo CE Magnum isn't nearly as precise as the BR was in H2. I mean you wanna talk overpowered, the BR's precision was insane.
Whenever I had to argue about the pistol back in the day, I had to say just three words. It's A Magnum And it always made people realize the correct answer.
Except... that's not how bullets work. A .50 AE or .44 magnum are both less powerful than a 5.56mm rifle round, because it's a *rifle* round. The battle rifle filling that role in Halo 2 makes sense; the magnum in CE does not.
@@ghjong001 Well the M6G doesn't fire pistol size rounds it fire's 12.7x40mm and the MA5B fires 7.62x51 so it's a much bigger caliber but only a somewhat smaller length. I think the issue is more that the assault rifle doesn't do enough damage rather than the magnum doing to much.
That isn't how guns work. You don't just measure the size of the bullet and assume that's how much damage is dealt. Pistols have less energy than a rifle. Their rounds pack less powder, and it's also a different mix of powder that burns slower. The barrel is also shorter, which means there is less time for the expanding gasses to push the bullet before it leaves the barrel, meaning less energy, accuracy and effective range.
I'd also like to mention, each weapon has a different melee range as well as different speeds, the rockets and ar have the furthest range in ce, making em the best option for double melee's
I appreciate you making this video. HPC/HCE was my childhood, and I had ~8000 hours combined when Xfire (Stealthy4u was my xfire) went down. I played with some of the best Halo 1 PC players back in the day, was in countless clans, competed in HPT tournaments, etc. Lots of players these days don't know what it was like back then, and it was nostalgic hearing some of these strats and any additional appreciate HCE gets is a win. There's several other strats left out here (Backpacking, flag tossing, flag quick capping, the quick reload by meleeing during the animation, etc., and that just is the tip of how complex this game was, especially competitively. You covered your highlighted ones very well, and I'm always happy to see other OGs make videos about CE. I made a lot of friends over the years from scrimming, pubbing and tourneys, and still talk with many of them today. I even started a petition to raise awareness to Bungie to either move halo to steam or patch the game to keep the server list alive once the news that Gamespy was closing their doors and would stop hosting the custom game list, and the petition ended with ~17,000 signatures (Though I doubt it really did anything), but regardless it was a fun communal experience with other Halo lovers. I still play MCC today and am constantly in Halo CE custom browser servers (Sheftyyy is my GT). Anyone who would like to run some games feel free to hit me up.
8:28 I definitely agree about the melee animations. There is a lot more personality with each melee hit compared to later games. I absolutely loved feeling like I'm punching grunts to death with the might of Zeus or bashing skulls in with the butt of the shotgun.
I'm glad you started with the comparison with the raw dps of the assault rifle because that was enough to make your point. The rest of the stuff, while fascinating strikes me as very high level play and not the sort of moves a casual player would be doing. I think its fair to say that if a gun is overpowered in casual non high level play then it might still be fair to call it overpowered. (I'm not saying that applies to this pistol)
Considering the AR is my Favorite out of the Halo CE weapons,seeing that Double melee really made me go in awe. It almost as if it came straight out off a fighting game,which explains why it's a tricky to pull off let alone in other weapons.
I mostly play singleplayer and co-op, and I really like the CE magnum. I feel like most of the time, pistols in first person shooters are useless after the start of the game.
Thank you so much for making this video ❤ Edit: I do have one thing I’d like to correct. The H2 BR projectiles are actually not that much faster than the CE pistol’s most of the time. The BR’s velocity is 400 World units per second while the pistol’s is 324. Thing is, the BR becomes hitscan when achieving red reticle, and I believe this was done for XBL networking reasons in the days of dialup connections. On BTB maps, you actually do need to lead with the BR to achieve hits at a distance.
You only mentioned the magnums hidden bloom but there is tricks to that. Hold the trigger and you'll get more spread then when tapping but holding the trigger has faster rate of fire.
No, the bloom still applies even when bursting fire (and has the same fire rate). It just reduces the increase of bloom. There is still set bloom no matter what, (0.2 degree error angle).
I'm still of the opinion it was a mistake to veer so far off the CE formula, as someone who grew up on CE it was a completely different game and I was kinda disappointed when I played 2s multiplayer after loving CE for so long. It's okay in its own right, but I don't think halo would have lost so hard to call of duty had they not strayed so far from the CE formula. The biggest changes I can think of off the top that really turned me off were... 1. TTK...The magnum in halo CE can kill a fully over-shielded player FASTER than the halo 2+ battle rifle can kill a normally shielded player. This leads to far more teamwork requirements in halo 2+ as its almost impossible to shoot yourself out of a low man situation. Even if you're outnumbered in CE with the right timing or excellent aim (or maybe the help of a pocket nuclear explosive) you can still come out with at least a kill or two in a man down situation. Halo 2+ are much less forgiving in this aspect, you *will* be run over by a coordinated team push whether you like it or not a man down almost every single time...there is simply not enough damage output fast enough to make a meaningful play before you are pulled up on by the entire team. The primary option is to not be the team who ends up a man down in the first place, which isn't very fun in a casual setting. 2. Power-ups/Power weapons...in halo CE every PU/PW will all spawn exactly on the minute mark every minute regardless of if they are already in play or not, the rockets and sometimes sniper being minor exceptions at 2 minutes. This means you can't just sit back in your setup and hold all game long, you have incentive to move out on the map every single minute of every single game, which leads to more required movement, risks to be taken, and interesting plays. Halo CE was primarily developed as a 2v2 or FFA party game, while it can get overwhelming in 4v4 the game was not primarily designed to be played that way or even competitively at all. However, despite this it still fundamentally plays very well whichever way you play and every pain point that they tried so hard to avoid in future halo titles could have been tweaked instead of thrown out the window. Power weapons could have had less ammo, and players could spawn with less grenades, something they eventually implemented in future games. Power-ups could have favored out of control areas of the map more heavily to give more opportunities for the losing team to take back control of a lost position and less opportunities for the in control team to cycle power-ups every minute. It just feels like they went so overboard on correcting for perceived mistakes in CE that they forgot what made CE so timeless and fun in the first place.
Fully agreed. Little correction to the Power-up and Power weapon spawns; Normal weapons spawn every 30 seconds and usually the sniper is 30 second spawn also. In BG Sniper spawns every 2 minutes. Power-up spawns vary much more. For example in Rat race, OS spawns every minute and Camo spawns every 90 seconds. There are also 3 minute Power-up spawns like the random Power-up spawn in Hang 'em high. Health packs are 30 second spawn also.
Thank God someone says it finally! Halo CE had a huge skill ceiling where you could legitimately 1v4 if you could 3 shot and strafe well. You could NEVER do that in any Halo after that, it was all team firing focused with BR's, or of course a nade first then clean up, which really isn't the same since nades are situational for the most part. Still enjoy the other Halos, but nothing came close to the pure skill and gameplay of Halo CE. Halo CE also had the best grenade effects too. They felt powerful and shook the screen. I still enjoy Halo CE multiplayer to this day. Its only issue IMO is maps. That's one areas I can't deny Halo CE is lacking.
@@Jarekthegamingdragon Definitely agree on chill out and a few others its not all bad, but a lot of them suffer from being way too big, or feeling like a rushed mess like rat race or chiron with all the teleporters. Still greatly enjoy multiplayer overall though.
I LOVE rat race and chiron was made for goofy custom game modes. The only truly bad map that comes to mind is hang 'em high. Not sure why people like it so much. The bases are really imbalanced.
This reminds me of a time on Halo PC, during a rockets CTF match on Blood Gulch. I was on red team and drove to the back entrance of blue base with a Warthog, somehow killed 8 or 9 people to get the flag and get back to the 'Hog, and still managed to drive back and score. Probably my best moment playing the game.
Agreed except the maps. CE has the best maps in Halo (later Halos do have good maps too) imo. Damnation is BY FAR my favorite Halo map of all time and actually climbing pretty high in my favorite FPS map of all time list. Chill out, Rat race, Creek, and almost every BTB is great too.
It's meant as the mid range gun of Halo CE, far outclassing anything at medium range while being surpassed by the sniper at long range and every other gun at close range but is still very effective at any distance and that's why I think it's labelled as overpowered. It's the most versatile gun in the game and it's the gun you spawn with.
its my favorite pistol in all of gaming, in every other game the pistol just shoots marshmallows and its just there to waste your time until you get to the fun guns but not here not in CE, its so useful thats the only weapon captain keys carries for self defense and he doesnt even keep it loaded
I’ve been waiting for someone to make this video- even considered making something similar myself because this topic is so misunderstood by the Halo community. Whether an accident by the developers or not, Halo CE is actually extremely well-balanced. It’s sort of magical the way the sandbox, mechanics, and maps converge so beautifully. For every reason you mentioned, and more. It makes sense that people don’t get it because it is so different from every other Halo, and it takes effort to discover the meta, but once you do, it’s a fun, unique game that still holds up. I love every Halo in different ways, but CE is still my favorite.
I think it's because the original Halo was really a passion project. A bunch of people wanted to make a fun game to play with other people, and it really shows. A rare thing now in the days of AAA game studios, and massive development teams. Even Indie games struggle to capture the same labor of love the games from the early 2000s capture.
What most people don't understand is that power is relative. While the CE Magnum would be OP in any other Halo, it's fine in its own game due to everything else being overpowered.
It’s also fine in its own game because Red Reticle Radius was less forgiving. You had to be just about dead on with your targeting reticle to get the bullet magnetism effects. You can see in H5’s M6D pistol how any further extension of that RRR breaks the weapon.
This reminds me of fighting games. Certain characters can be considered cheap or overpowered at lower levels of play where certain gimmicks dominate, but higher level players better understand the limitations of these characters and how to play around them. So a character who's considered strong by less skilled players can be considered mid or even weak by advanced ones. Then there's all the animation cancel shenanigans, that's like something straight out of Street Fighter.
It really did have a unique aesthetic, much more sci-fi compared to H2-3 militarism. Wish they kept to it's style in the anniversary instead of making it look like reach
It's alright. I don't hold it in super high regards like others. I was already a PC gamer when Halo CE came out on Xbox and It wasn't quite as revolutionary for PC players. Now for console players It's a different story, it basically defined how to do a console FPS going forward and was the best FPS experience you could have on a console. I have only played to Halo 3 and I think the 3rd one is the best game. I would say the master Chief Collection is a pretty good deal.
@@Gatorade69 Halo CE in 2001 was basically a slightly smaller-scale version of the '77 Star Wars situation for me - there was a lot of stuff out there already that introduced the concepts, technical execution, etc that I saw in shooters/space-fantasy films before the original Halo/Star Wars. But the real innovation of those franchises was combining all of those components into a single cohesive package, that was appealing and accessible to wider audiences. That alone is worthy of the high status both original trilogies held within their respective industries, at least to me as both a PC and Console guy.
This video is interesting but the analysis doesn't seem very convincing. It's actually fairly easy to get three shots kill with the magnum, even at long range, even while being kinda noob. The assault rifle is barely usable when the opposing player is five meters away. Even with good aim, the shots will hit around the hitbox.
This is the casual experience, play against even decent players and none of that is true. 3 shoting is no where close to easy with an opponent strafing in any way.
@@Jarekthegamingdragon Hmmm I guess so. But I've never taken part in anything that wasn't casual in halo Ce. My first memories of playing halo Custom edition, was chill and nonsensical never ending games with 120 ping. The whole competitive aspects of it, the tricks and whatnot, it's just so detached from the regular experience. Anything that isn't the pistol feels like a bad pick when you just want to get kills.
@@orchidahussuhadihcro9862 The competitive elements are just regular CE gameplay. It's not detached at all. You'll see it regularly if you boot up MCC. Also Halo Custom edition has such bad net code that weapons like the assault rifle become completely unviable so it's really not a good representation of the game's balance.
But for further notes, the magnum is really good mostly in MP, but once you hit campaign and think "did the devs really just give me a plasma pistol?" when thats unironically the best gun in the campaign except exclusively against hunters lmao
CE is the only halo with realistic explosives. Why does a drag have a damage radius of five feet in video games? I get ‘nade spam is a problem but the “nuke” explosions is more realistic.
Excellently put! I really wish many, if not all of these tricks were a product of intentional design, rather than strategies based around bugs or glitches. I love 'em for what they are, and in Halo CE they worked out amazingly. How this scenario plays out in other games, however, isn't always so awesome.
Great video. I knew of a lot of the stuff here, but I did learn some new things, like the double melee and run speed effecting the power of the melee. While H3 has my favorite MP, I have a soft-spot for CE's, and I wish later Halo games carried over some of CE's design, especially launching weapons and power-ups with grenades, that shit is so cool. Like imagine an extra utility of the gravity hammer is launching weapons or power-ups towards your teammates or something. I know H5 and Infinite sorta brought that back, but it's a lot more limited in those games compared to how it is in CE. I'm surprised that you didn't talk about the Magnum's time to kill with headshots vs with body shots though. The gap between those 2 times is pretty big, and another reason why I wouldn't call the gun OP. Sure, you can finish someone off in 3 shots, but doing so requires a lot of skill. It's something I appreciate about Halo's utility weapons, and the CE magnum arguably emphasizes player skill the most.
@@Jarekthegamingdragon Yeah, sorry if that was worded weirdly but that's what I meant. 2 shots to the body, and a headshot to finish them off versus 2 shots to the body, and then like 3 or 4 more shots to the body to get the kill.
The most likely place the “Pistol OP” joke started is probably actually the CE campaign, it’s far and away the best weapon in the campaign, it’s plentifully available in every level, pretty good at just about everything, it actually one shots almost everything there and when you don’t really know what your doing it can easily be inferred that it’s the best in multiplayer, especially when it’s so commonly used
I mean, that's not an opinion thing. The plasma pistol was busted in the first game's campaign. Fires as fast as you can spam it with lots of damage. You *need* it on legendary. The magnum really isn't in the same tier as the shotgun or plasma pistol campaign wise. Hell, up close the ar/plasma rifle is better. Being able to one tap grunts doesn't really mean a whole lot.
In my case I started with Halo 3 which is a slow paced game right next to Reach. I’ve picked up a few tricks overtime playing CE MP in MCC. It also doesn’t help that I’m aware that in MCC the hit registration is not the same like OG Xbox, same with H2. Hope they fix it like they did with H3.
I remember being taken aback by the changes to halo 2's weapons when it came out, as you are describing and as others are saying, much more nuance and skill in halo 1's gameplay. I lived on muiltiplayer on mac back in the day and boy does this summarize the experience well.
A lot of us mostly play mostly long range maps like blood gulch and when almost every other weapon you compared the magnum too only has high skill cqc viability that makes the magnum absolutely king. Even against tanks and banshees it takes about a magazine to kill. The high shield damage of the plasma rifle is irrelevant if you're not in melee range, the assault rifle's atrocious spread at range means you're going to miss most of your shots.
No halo game has ever been balanced for big team battle. That's a very different, and a lot more casual, game experience. Not a bad thing, just that it's basically a different game.
That's why gametypes for blood gulch with the "custom" start flag starts you with a plasma pistol. There are only 4 pistols on the map and they are all far away. You also misunderstand how much range the AR and shotgun actually have. You hit almost all of your shots despite spread, even without red reticule.
the Magnum, even if it was "OP" should have never been changed. it's the equalizer. it's so awesome, and even for how strong it was, it never stepped on the toes of any pickup weapons. so why kneecap it?
The biggest irony is that CE is usually seen as a slower paced halo, even though the time to kill is much faster. Also I'm only talking about multiplayer, not Legendary.
GeneralKidd used to make a lot of videos comparing all the weapons in halo, and almost every time Combat Evolved won. The CE AR, Pistol, Rocket Launcher, Grenades, Sniper Rifle, and so many more won. But like you had compared in this video, Halo 3 had the weakest weapons almost every time. So in short, every weapon in CE is overpowered.
@@alexdietrich7975 Man, some of the worst wind I have ever experienced was in Colorado. All the Windows were closed but the gust of wind was so strong it still blew my door open somehow. I was just a kid so my sister and I would go hunker down in the closet. Also the only state I have experienced a Tornado in. Lots of good Beer and Bud in Colorado though, I do kind of miss the state.
I legitimately did not know that people just memorize grenade throws to get quick access to certain weapons. Like, that's neat, though i'm glad its a feature that was removed. I just really like that the weapons being planted on the ground means that you're forced to have to go and get it, meaning it ensures that you'll have to confront your opponent and fight them for it. Thats why the map design in Halo 2 and 3 is so great.
I would honestly argue that CE maps are better than 2/3 maps aside from the duds both games have. More importantly they brought back grenade launches in later halo games.
Nade launching might be the biggest reason why CE is so much better than later Halos (no melee lunge being the other one). And it's not like you are safe nading a weapon from the other side of the map. Before the weapon spawns, you can nade the spot where the enemy is most likely lining up a nade launch, granting you some kills or at least preventing the enemy getting the weapon.
I think the big context that is lost on why Soo many think the Magnum is OP is simply...most of your arguments for balance are based on cheats that most casual players (especially back in the day) never knew. Playing with our exploits makes the AR much less powerful and the magnum more impressive. But yes the Magnum of the other games (BR) is also OP in H2 and arguably H3
Not really, as I explained the raw damage output of weapons like the AR and plasma rifle beat the pistol up close without any double melee shenanigans. People just misunderstand the sandbox as a whole.
I love how you pointed out how Halo has a different feel than the rest of the games in the series. Imo bungee never really recaptured that feel. A lot of it has to be the change in soundtrack direction, from the rompler heavy sound to a more orchestral/rock heavy sound.
My brothers and I used to system-link play CE when I was a small ass kid. It would be my brother closest in age vs my second oldest brother. Nade launching weapons was such a fun thing to do, never learned some of the advanced stuff cuz I was like 8 but managed it a few times. CE's MP was just too early to be impactful, I feel like Halo's Trajectory would have been different if H2's success was CE's. No one can ever tell me Chiron TL 34 with no motion sensor wasn't the funnest shit ever.
one of the best H:CE videos ive seen explaining why its so good without going full nerd, i would say 99% of people who dislike h1 is just because they dont understand why theyre getting 50-5d in matchmaking, the skill gap is just insane, most rewarding halo to play once you get good by far
okay, as someone whose teenage experience with Halo was only being able to play it whenever I went to a friend's house with an Xbox (unfortunately a rare occurrence, also take what I say with a grain of salt), the fact that none of the explanations involve the Halo CE campaign is absolutely wild to me. preface: being an unpopular kid and Nintendo fan meant I never really got to play multiplayer Halo until I got a 360 a decade after the fact. the pistol being OP was always explained to me in terms of the campaign, and given Halo kinda set the standard for console shooters it probably was a case of kids learning the pistol is more powerful than the assault rifle since you can kill an elite with a few headshots instead of unloading an entire clip and dying to plasma fire. it also probably helps you can one-shot the hunters using the magnum. I myself was a plasma rifle fan, but that's because the magnum always felt beyond my skill level; getting consistent headshots felt way too sweaty to be useful, but that only added to its allure. and yeah, I saw your comment about the plasma pistol, but while some of them probably understood its usefulness, I'm talking about dumbass teenagers whose only way through legendary was winging it in co-op with their buddy over several weekends (one of them is the reason I defaulted to boxer for the longest time). the plasma pistol, as explained to me, was only good 'cause it automatically hits enemies, and not because it takes down entire shields in a single shot. but that all aside, it's still wild to me because hearing the legend of the magnum in Halo CE happened well before Halo 2 or even Halo on PC came out, and I doubt I'm the only one.
"Everything does more damage in this (CE) game." I had played and beat Halp CE on legendary way before the second game came out. When I played through the campaign on the second game I was IMMENSELY disappointed with how weak ALL the guns felt compared to the first game. I literally felt like I was just spewing BB guns at the enemies during playthrough.
See this is what I love/wish more games would do even infinite. A lot of this games MP was made with the intent of just being a fun casual game that on the surface seems simple and can be easy to play, but under the surface there’s A LOT of depth for the more competitive players. Games now especially infinite are designed almost the reverse way with the more competitive elements being front and center and the casual aspects are ….. well your lucky if you get a casual experience. I play CE all the time running around just playing and i never knew about any of this and have a fun time. Infinite though its like I need to go pro gamer mode
I would love to see a video on the original xbox live Halo 2 balance patch. For a short little while before it the H2 magnum was the optimal close range go to.
I was gonna comment something about halo 2 being a higher skill ceiling but actually your analysis was informed and convincing, you know the CE meta greatly and I respect that. Great video, point very well made.
It's not really overpowered at all, it's just strange because it's supposed to be a pistol but behaves like a rifle. It's why they replaced the CE pistol with the battle rifle in Halo 2 and the assault rifle with the SMG.
My thought was that most pistols are _just_ back up weapons. I mean, in some older fps games, the pistol even had special third slot because devs knew you’d swap it a for more functional secondary, faster swap speed or whatever be damned. Halo CE’s was just built for an actual role apart from _the backup_ . As was Halo 3 ODST’s (the BR being removed in the original version), which is commonly regarded as the second best pistol in the franchise. Reach and 4’s were also pretty solid because they just tried not nerf it too much like 2 and 3’s were. On a sidenote, I also liked Rainbow 6 Vegas’s approach of letting the pistols have unlimited ammo. I’d legit try to play through missions using only the pistol for that reason, and just because you could.
odst's pistol isn't the second best. That's *definitely* the Halo 5 pistol. That thing is a mini dmr, insanely good. Also infinite, 4, and reach all have better pistols. The odst pistol is really weak.
@@Jarekthegamingdragon Well, unfortunately my Xbox One had critical internal issue that made Halo 5 unplayable, so I can’t speak on that, or Infinite really. And you might have a point about Reach’s pistol. That thing was no pushover. Though it was also overshadowed by the DMR for it’s essential function (head shot capable, basic scope weapon). So yeah, I won’t argue technics on which one was better, but I think the absence of the BR made you use the pistol in ODST more like you did the one in CE. And even if it didn’t have the punch damage wise, it had a remarkable fire rate, 12 round mag, and the recoil was pretty minimal, where as Reach’s had the ever divisive reticle bloom. I mean, popping off headshots on Grunts, and the hand-head combo on Jackals just felt so crisp with ODST’s. I can’t remember if if it could single headshot Brutes or not though. If it could, the bobbing they did when they charged made it difficult for me to pull off, but I remember wiping an entire team of Grunts and squads of Jackals with that thing. I can’t say that about any other Halo Pistol except CE’s. And that largely holds true playing MCC on PC. That aside, love your content bro! Glad someone agrees Half-Likes feel cooler than Boomer Shooters.
It couldn't single hit brutes, it was really weak. Picking up a carbine instead was the better option. Carbine was basically that game's br. Like, it's fun to use, just not really in the same tier.
I've never understood why people think the magnum is overpowered. Even knowing nothing else but the campaign itself, that alone should have taught any player just how powerful pretty much every weapon is. All of them have specific powerful uses but are still pretty damn useful outside their niche cases. For example, the AR has shotgun-in-any-other-game levels of close range dps and has a slightly delayed bloom to allow burst fire use making it viable up to the ranges of wall to wall in most any enclosed room in the campaign (from the Pillar of Autumn's corridors to the flood intro's maze of a complex) as well as having a massive magazine size and a lightning fast melee. It fills a strong close range niche and has a general reliability from excess of ammo (via magazine, total, and pick-ups) and burst fire to work well across the board. I could do this same summary for each weapon, but this is one weapon often called weak by people, and this 'weak' weapon compared to the magnum is, in fact, much stronger in a third (fourth?) of situations and roughly comparable in another large fraction of the situations a player deals with. If someone can't even understand that basic stuff (ignoring all the fancy tricks like double melee, charging bonus to melee or faster return to invisibility on a weapon), then I don't know how I could take their "OP" assertions seriously.
The very first time I played Halo CE online, the very first match, one of the guys on my team threw a grenade seemingly randomly into the air, I thought he just hit the button by mistake... UNTIL I NOTICED THE FUCKING ROCKET LAUNCHER FLYING TOWARD HIM!!!!!!! I was so glad he was on my team, he kicked Ass thr whole match.
Back in the days of competitive CE, more than 15 years ago at this point, everyone used pistols. It was common knowledge, at high skill, that other weapons had their strengths and these tricks were known. The reason no one used anything else other than a pistol, at least in the scene I played in, was because the pistol made your character stick his head up like a lamp-post, making headshots way easier to get with... a pistol. Or a sniper rifle if you managed to get one, but the magnum was a weapon everybody had. So it was kind of a self-feeding loop. Kind of miss getting people frustrated during scrims because I would blast them with the AR around corners while crouch-moving lmao
Love how there is really no mention of the shotgun being busted AF. Would take a lot of convincing to prove that. Also can someone tell me why Halo CE is the only multiplayer with infinite grenades option (as far as FPS Halo console releases)? I loved playing with infinite grenades but they never made it an option again.
God this takes me back. As a kid growing up without a console, I ONLY played PC CE all through middle/highschool. Coming back to other Halos, it's great to finally understand what I was "missing" from CE. That shit got ssswweeeatttttyy and i fucking loved it. And with only mnk players so you KNEW every kill was solely based on skill and not a computer holding everyone's hands? *chef's kiss*
I am really glad you made this video because Halo CE's sandbox is so misunderstood. But I would have liked to see a more in-depth discussion of the Magnum. I wish you had gone more in depth with your analysis of the Magnum, highlighting all the little details that most people overlook. One example - notice how the Magnum has 12 rounds per magazine. We know the Magnum can kill an opponent in 3 shots, given you are skilled at aiming its projectile bullet. So having 12 bullets in a magazine means that a single individual player can kill the entire enemy team, in a 4v4, with a single magazine, if they are skilled enough. This demonstrates how the skill ceiling is very high with Halo CE, that it is on another level compared to the sequels. It shows the power that the Halo CE sandbox gives to the individual player, and how it rewards the player for mastering the guns.
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WOO This video took a while to make. I had procrastinated making this for a long while. I hope you liked it!
If you want to hang out in the future consider following my twitch! www.twitch.tv/jarek4gamingdragon
EDIT: "This is just a tryhard doing mental gymnastics, CE Magnum is op, cope!" This is a long time competitive player explaining the Combat Evolved meta. This is how it is, it's not a theory, it's literally what you see every single game with players that understand the game. You do not understand the game like you think you do and are coping. I am trying to teach people about a game I love, now get good.
real op gun is the is sticky det from 4. only weapon that can kill you with invincibility enabled.
ooooohhhh I get it now
So in halo two
when they said that the trade off sheild was the strongest ever
and made it out like it wasn't a trade off sheild, but stronger and faster reload, it's because the plasma rifles take more shots, so it's twice or so as strong and faster recharge, meaning four times stronger and five or six times more usefull (it was not six times more susefull, it ended up being as good or worse than halo one sheild.
Came in expecting an analysis of the magnum compared to other Halo games, left terrified of ever playing CE multiplayer ever again.
Same. My memory of Halo CE multiplayer is like "lmao, warthog jousting" and rockets on prisoner. No one knew that you could use a grenade to order an overshield like Domino's, or that guns could double melee. We just knew how to magnum, screen watch, eat hot chip, and lie. (About knowing they were in the sniper nest in Prisoner from screen watching)
Don’t be scared. It’s an incredible game once you’re armed with some game knowledge. It WILL reward you for your effort. I promise.
It’s fun to play but man first few months playing mcc on it I was getting smoked
Just wait till you learn Halo 2 can be considered a first person shooter fighting game with how a lot of the bugs are abused in multiplayer
Omg hi bestie
I feel that people don't talk about CE's multiplayer enough. Love this game.
Man dude I used to get sweaty on CE. My favorite Halo multiplayer of all time
The multiplayer still to this day doesn’t even work. Thanks to 343 industries.
I think it's because there wasn't Xbox Live until Halo 2
Love playing CE maps made in Forge on Halo Infinite. Together with own setting you can totally recreate the Halo CE feeling!
@@stonefish1318 one of the only things infinite has done right.
An interesting fact about the Magnum; it was buffed right in the final hours of development, basically via a hack, in a sort-of Hail Mary attempt to make it a viable weapon. It does kinda explain why it's able to one-shot Hunters so easily, I imagine before the hack Hunters were actually a threat and not a fun little treat.
I rememeber the Halo 2 BR used the Magnum's HUD elements in early alphas, so I imagine the BR is a direct evolution of it game object wise like you say. Cool learning about CE's sandbox, didn't know most of this stuff.
Hunters are one-shot because their weak spot is a headshot-weak region. It has nothing to do with the Pistol’s strength other than its headshot kill capability. The sniper can one-shot it, too, for this very reason.
This is very telling of bungie. And 343 studios
They never purposefully do something good. All of their Magnum opus ideas have been accidents. Owe it to the halo pistol and the quick time to kill high skill ceiling players to give us a real Hingham high Halo again no. Sprinting. More skill less auto aim.
Tee hee Magnum opus
The H1 Magnum being the H2 Battle Rifle is correct, in the same way H1 Assault Rifle became the H2 SMG which even had the same crosshair in retail
@@MachinedFace88ttv Well bungie sure had a really bad luck streak of "accidents" that just seemed to happen coincidentally. No, its not that they were masters of their craft, they just made one of the most popular sci-fi franchises ever by accident. And then they left Microsoft and made another highly successful sci-fi franchise by accident again.
The pistol hunter theory is BS. Along with the pistol being hacked... bullocks!
A lot of people just treat Combat Evolved like a standard first-person shooter when in reality it's closer to an arena shooter
Every halo is an arena shooter (except halo 4)
I've always felt like CE is just "heavier" than the other games. I'm way too young to have enjoyed CE multiplayer so I've only ever played the campaign.
While i feel like some things haven't aged super well in the story, specifically all the driving around, I personally love vehicle combat so i enjoy the driving but a lot of people I'll play with say it's boring... But the one thing i always felt was perfect in CE is the guns.
I hate how in later Halo games they made guns either super situational or just straight up suck. CE is the only halo game i can pick up a plasma pistol and kill a whole room of enemies with it and I always felt that rocks.
Just the small things you point out here made me realize that, like how the plasma rifle melts through enemies and feels heavy but in later games good luck killing anything that isn't a grunt before it over heats.
Idk it's just fun playing Halo where I'm not just rocking the battle rifle/DMR the whole time.
Yeah they nerfed the guns more and more with each game, it feels really bad. CE is when all of them were at their strongest (aside from maybe the Needler, which is still usable at least). I grew up with CE and it's the first thing I notice when I try other Halo games, the guns just suck (I tried Reach recently and holy shit the AR is borderline useless). And if you're playing a first person shooter, where half of the point is to shoot things... the guns should be fun to use, or your game isn't really that great.
I think the difference between CE and the other games is that the guns can be at a disadvantage in some situations but still usable, whereas in other games, using a weapon outside of its sole intended situation will result in it being entirely useless. I've noticed that with the Shotgun too in any other Halo, it just does not do anything outside of sneezing distance. The CE Shotgun can do some very impressive damage even at mid/long range, even if alternatives weapons are still better at that. I really love that about it. It's the only game I've played that has a convincing shotgun with an accurate effective range.
@@Banshee523 not only did they nerf the damage in reach, but then they made the ammo count so low that it literally can't kill enemies on higher difficulties, lmao.
For when the game was released, the driving was amazing. Seamlessly getting in and out of vehicles was revolutionary to me at the time. In those days, shooters with vehicles would have a separate "vehicle level" or segment that was predetermined. I didn't have enough friends to play with more than 4 people in CEs multiplayer as online was not a thing and LANs were not something I had the opportunity to do. Didn't stop us from playing blood gulch though!
This was probably to increase play time, due to low damage = more time to kill stuff. While it's a sound way to make a smaller, easier to mass produce, and quicker turnaround from the last drop game, it does prevent the one thing players desire: good gunplay/gameplay.
@@Banshee523 exactly. Someone who isn't a BR fanboy, finally. I miss using the other guns...
Honestly, CE actually nailed the weapon balance. They're all viable and powerful.
H2 and 3 were a little too BR-focused, which kinda detracted from the multiplayer experience IMO.
I hate the sweaty BR part of Halo. Championships which included larger maps and vehicles would be fun.
Its balanced when not everyone has one
Bruh, the Halo CE AR sucked. The whole MP is just using the magnum.
Such a wrong take holy crap
@@ErikLosLobos fun? Noobish bullshit isn't fun unless it's being pulled on you by a friend
for me, a lot of the knocking on the CE magnum in my groups comes from people who simply never saw utility in any of the other weapons for reasons ranging from 'Gearbox Port' to "I never play on maps with corridors"
To "I never played the game/the original release"
To “I don’t know how to play this game”
I played the original PC release for years and I don't remember anyone complaining about the magnum. All the weapons are pretty well balanced in Halo CE (except the flamethrower because it's trash)
@@jimjamauto And let's not talk about the needler...
@@kristiankoski3908still a cool gun tho
Man it's just the sheer fact that the Halo CE Magnum isn't nearly as precise as the BR was in H2. I mean you wanna talk overpowered, the BR's precision was insane.
Idk how H2's BR is but the CE Magnum is 100% accurate as long as you time your shots.
@@xx_amongus_xx6987 yeah but with the br you can simply spam the trigger and it maintains complete precision
Wasn't it nerfed in 3?
@@beneficent2557 Only slightly. BR conquers all these days...
Whenever I had to argue about the pistol back in the day, I had to say just three words.
It's A Magnum
And it always made people realize the correct answer.
Except... that's not how bullets work. A .50 AE or .44 magnum are both less powerful than a 5.56mm rifle round, because it's a *rifle* round. The battle rifle filling that role in Halo 2 makes sense; the magnum in CE does not.
And then everyone clapped
@@ghjong001 The Magnum in CE fires explosive rounds. This is why it is able to do a lot of damage.
@@ghjong001 Well the M6G doesn't fire pistol size rounds it fire's 12.7x40mm and the MA5B fires 7.62x51 so it's a much bigger caliber but only a somewhat smaller length.
I think the issue is more that the assault rifle doesn't do enough damage rather than the magnum doing to much.
That isn't how guns work. You don't just measure the size of the bullet and assume that's how much damage is dealt. Pistols have less energy than a rifle. Their rounds pack less powder, and it's also a different mix of powder that burns slower. The barrel is also shorter, which means there is less time for the expanding gasses to push the bullet before it leaves the barrel, meaning less energy, accuracy and effective range.
I'd also like to mention, each weapon has a different melee range as well as different speeds, the rockets and ar have the furthest range in ce, making em the best option for double melee's
I appreciate you making this video. HPC/HCE was my childhood, and I had ~8000 hours combined when Xfire (Stealthy4u was my xfire) went down. I played with some of the best Halo 1 PC players back in the day, was in countless clans, competed in HPT tournaments, etc. Lots of players these days don't know what it was like back then, and it was nostalgic hearing some of these strats and any additional appreciate HCE gets is a win. There's several other strats left out here (Backpacking, flag tossing, flag quick capping, the quick reload by meleeing during the animation, etc., and that just is the tip of how complex this game was, especially competitively. You covered your highlighted ones very well, and I'm always happy to see other OGs make videos about CE.
I made a lot of friends over the years from scrimming, pubbing and tourneys, and still talk with many of them today. I even started a petition to raise awareness to Bungie to either move halo to steam or patch the game to keep the server list alive once the news that Gamespy was closing their doors and would stop hosting the custom game list, and the petition ended with ~17,000 signatures (Though I doubt it really did anything), but regardless it was a fun communal experience with other Halo lovers.
I still play MCC today and am constantly in Halo CE custom browser servers (Sheftyyy is my GT). Anyone who would like to run some games feel free to hit me up.
miss the days of early HPC/HCE 🥲🥲you summed it all up really well in this comment
8:28
I definitely agree about the melee animations. There is a lot more personality with each melee hit compared to later games. I absolutely loved feeling like I'm punching grunts to death with the might of Zeus or bashing skulls in with the butt of the shotgun.
I think the CE Magnum is the second most misinderstood gun in gaming, the first being the Doom 3 Shotgun.
Fair point
EDIT: The replies prove it LMAO
Why is it misunderstood ?
It's got the worst accuracy out of any shotgun in gaming history.
No it's just bad
Yeah Doom 3 shotgun kicks-ass
It's bad on purpose, what's not to get
"Why the magnum is not overpowered"
Me, cleaning the campaign on Legendary with a magnum 90% of the time: "yes"
This has knowledge lost to the sands of time and deserves a lot more views
I'm glad you started with the comparison with the raw dps of the assault rifle because that was enough to make your point. The rest of the stuff, while fascinating strikes me as very high level play and not the sort of moves a casual player would be doing. I think its fair to say that if a gun is overpowered in casual non high level play then it might still be fair to call it overpowered. (I'm not saying that applies to this pistol)
Considering the AR is my Favorite out of the Halo CE weapons,seeing that Double melee really made me go in awe.
It almost as if it came straight out off a fighting game,which explains why it's a tricky to pull off let alone in other weapons.
I mostly play singleplayer and co-op, and I really like the CE magnum. I feel like most of the time, pistols in first person shooters are useless after the start of the game.
Thank you so much for making this video ❤
Edit: I do have one thing I’d like to correct. The H2 BR projectiles are actually not that much faster than the CE pistol’s most of the time. The BR’s velocity is 400 World units per second while the pistol’s is 324. Thing is, the BR becomes hitscan when achieving red reticle, and I believe this was done for XBL networking reasons in the days of dialup connections. On BTB maps, you actually do need to lead with the BR to achieve hits at a distance.
You only mentioned the magnums hidden bloom but there is tricks to that. Hold the trigger and you'll get more spread then when tapping but holding the trigger has faster rate of fire.
Same with the assault rifle. Firing in bursts extends its useful range dramatically.
No, the bloom still applies even when bursting fire (and has the same fire rate). It just reduces the increase of bloom. There is still set bloom no matter what, (0.2 degree error angle).
I feel like Ive learned so much about CE in this video, didn't know it had so much nuance and depth
Just wait until you learn about the crazy stuff you can do with the spawns
I also feel this way, I've been playing this game for a long time and didn't know the majority said in this video.
I'm still of the opinion it was a mistake to veer so far off the CE formula, as someone who grew up on CE it was a completely different game and I was kinda disappointed when I played 2s multiplayer after loving CE for so long. It's okay in its own right, but I don't think halo would have lost so hard to call of duty had they not strayed so far from the CE formula. The biggest changes I can think of off the top that really turned me off were...
1. TTK...The magnum in halo CE can kill a fully over-shielded player FASTER than the halo 2+ battle rifle can kill a normally shielded player. This leads to far more teamwork requirements in halo 2+ as its almost impossible to shoot yourself out of a low man situation. Even if you're outnumbered in CE with the right timing or excellent aim (or maybe the help of a pocket nuclear explosive) you can still come out with at least a kill or two in a man down situation. Halo 2+ are much less forgiving in this aspect, you *will* be run over by a coordinated team push whether you like it or not a man down almost every single time...there is simply not enough damage output fast enough to make a meaningful play before you are pulled up on by the entire team. The primary option is to not be the team who ends up a man down in the first place, which isn't very fun in a casual setting.
2. Power-ups/Power weapons...in halo CE every PU/PW will all spawn exactly on the minute mark every minute regardless of if they are already in play or not, the rockets and sometimes sniper being minor exceptions at 2 minutes. This means you can't just sit back in your setup and hold all game long, you have incentive to move out on the map every single minute of every single game, which leads to more required movement, risks to be taken, and interesting plays.
Halo CE was primarily developed as a 2v2 or FFA party game, while it can get overwhelming in 4v4 the game was not primarily designed to be played that way or even competitively at all. However, despite this it still fundamentally plays very well whichever way you play and every pain point that they tried so hard to avoid in future halo titles could have been tweaked instead of thrown out the window.
Power weapons could have had less ammo, and players could spawn with less grenades, something they eventually implemented in future games. Power-ups could have favored out of control areas of the map more heavily to give more opportunities for the losing team to take back control of a lost position and less opportunities for the in control team to cycle power-ups every minute. It just feels like they went so overboard on correcting for perceived mistakes in CE that they forgot what made CE so timeless and fun in the first place.
Fully agreed. Little correction to the Power-up and Power weapon spawns; Normal weapons spawn every 30 seconds and usually the sniper is 30 second spawn also. In BG Sniper spawns every 2 minutes. Power-up spawns vary much more. For example in Rat race, OS spawns every minute and Camo spawns every 90 seconds. There are also 3 minute Power-up spawns like the random Power-up spawn in Hang 'em high. Health packs are 30 second spawn also.
I would love to see you talk about Halo CE's tricks/busted stuff you can do Jarek! That would be so cool to hear all the crazy things in that game
Thank God someone says it finally! Halo CE had a huge skill ceiling where you could legitimately 1v4 if you could 3 shot and strafe well. You could NEVER do that in any Halo after that, it was all team firing focused with BR's, or of course a nade first then clean up, which really isn't the same since nades are situational for the most part. Still enjoy the other Halos, but nothing came close to the pure skill and gameplay of Halo CE. Halo CE also had the best grenade effects too. They felt powerful and shook the screen.
I still enjoy Halo CE multiplayer to this day. Its only issue IMO is maps. That's one areas I can't deny Halo CE is lacking.
I agree with every thing except the maps. I think CE has some of the best maps in the entire franchise. I wish chill out was embraced more.
@@Jarekthegamingdragon Definitely agree on chill out and a few others its not all bad, but a lot of them suffer from being way too big, or feeling like a rushed mess like rat race or chiron with all the teleporters. Still greatly enjoy multiplayer overall though.
I LOVE rat race and chiron was made for goofy custom game modes. The only truly bad map that comes to mind is hang 'em high. Not sure why people like it so much. The bases are really imbalanced.
This reminds me of a time on Halo PC, during a rockets CTF match on Blood Gulch. I was on red team and drove to the back entrance of blue base with a Warthog, somehow killed 8 or 9 people to get the flag and get back to the 'Hog, and still managed to drive back and score. Probably my best moment playing the game.
Agreed except the maps. CE has the best maps in Halo (later Halos do have good maps too) imo. Damnation is BY FAR my favorite Halo map of all time and actually climbing pretty high in my favorite FPS map of all time list. Chill out, Rat race, Creek, and almost every BTB is great too.
FINALLY Somone who gets the specific appeal of CE Multi.
It's meant as the mid range gun of Halo CE, far outclassing anything at medium range while being surpassed by the sniper at long range and every other gun at close range but is still very effective at any distance and that's why I think it's labelled as overpowered. It's the most versatile gun in the game and it's the gun you spawn with.
felt like a fighting game analysis. really love this kind of content
yeah! the double-melee and grenade positioning remind me of the L-cancel and wavedash in early Smash titles, specifically
its my favorite pistol in all of gaming, in every other game the pistol just shoots marshmallows and its just there to waste your time until you get to the fun guns but not here not in CE, its so useful thats the only weapon captain keys carries for self defense and he doesnt even keep it loaded
I’ve been waiting for someone to make this video- even considered making something similar myself because this topic is so misunderstood by the Halo community. Whether an accident by the developers or not, Halo CE is actually extremely well-balanced. It’s sort of magical the way the sandbox, mechanics, and maps converge so beautifully. For every reason you mentioned, and more.
It makes sense that people don’t get it because it is so different from every other Halo, and it takes effort to discover the meta, but once you do, it’s a fun, unique game that still holds up.
I love every Halo in different ways, but CE is still my favorite.
I think it's because the original Halo was really a passion project. A bunch of people wanted to make a fun game to play with other people, and it really shows.
A rare thing now in the days of AAA game studios, and massive development teams. Even Indie games struggle to capture the same labor of love the games from the early 2000s capture.
What most people don't understand is that power is relative. While the CE Magnum would be OP in any other Halo, it's fine in its own game due to everything else being overpowered.
We can even see that in Halo 5 first hand.
It’s also fine in its own game because Red Reticle Radius was less forgiving. You had to be just about dead on with your targeting reticle to get the bullet magnetism effects. You can see in H5’s M6D pistol how any further extension of that RRR breaks the weapon.
This reminds me of fighting games. Certain characters can be considered cheap or overpowered at lower levels of play where certain gimmicks dominate, but higher level players better understand the limitations of these characters and how to play around them. So a character who's considered strong by less skilled players can be considered mid or even weak by advanced ones. Then there's all the animation cancel shenanigans, that's like something straight out of Street Fighter.
i love this gun. i was glad it returned to halo 5. hopefully it returns again
Based Sangheili preferred species.
Also hot damn I learned a lot from this, and I kinda wanna play CE multiplayer now.
Yeah, in the beginning, it was a pocket sniper, and now it's just a starting pistol
If you don’t think the CE magnum is OP then your aim is bad tbh
If you think that the CE magnum is op then you're bad at the game tbh
@@Jarekthegamingdragon ZAAAMN touché fr fr
dude, excellent video
God - everything about Halo CE is just so sexy. Best game ever made.
It really did have a unique aesthetic, much more sci-fi compared to H2-3 militarism. Wish they kept to it's style in the anniversary instead of making it look like reach
I don't even play Halo and this is pretty fascinating stuff
SH0ULD TRY IT MATE 0NE 0F THE M0ST MAJESTIC AND SICK SERIES IN CREATI0N.
I'D PR0BABLY SAY CE UP T0 REACH.
It's alright.
I don't hold it in super high regards like others. I was already a PC gamer when Halo CE came out on Xbox and It wasn't quite as revolutionary for PC players. Now for console players It's a different story, it basically defined how to do a console FPS going forward and was the best FPS experience you could have on a console.
I have only played to Halo 3 and I think the 3rd one is the best game. I would say the master Chief Collection is a pretty good deal.
@@Gatorade69 Halo CE in 2001 was basically a slightly smaller-scale version of the '77 Star Wars situation for me - there was a lot of stuff out there already that introduced the concepts, technical execution, etc that I saw in shooters/space-fantasy films before the original Halo/Star Wars.
But the real innovation of those franchises was combining all of those components into a single cohesive package, that was appealing and accessible to wider audiences. That alone is worthy of the high status both original trilogies held within their respective industries, at least to me as both a PC and Console guy.
This video is interesting but the analysis doesn't seem very convincing.
It's actually fairly easy to get three shots kill with the magnum, even at long range, even while being kinda noob.
The assault rifle is barely usable when the opposing player is five meters away. Even with good aim, the shots will hit around the hitbox.
This is the casual experience, play against even decent players and none of that is true. 3 shoting is no where close to easy with an opponent strafing in any way.
@@Jarekthegamingdragon Hmmm I guess so.
But I've never taken part in anything that wasn't casual in halo Ce. My first memories of playing halo Custom edition, was chill and nonsensical never ending games with 120 ping.
The whole competitive aspects of it, the tricks and whatnot, it's just so detached from the regular experience. Anything that isn't the pistol feels like a bad pick when you just want to get kills.
@@orchidahussuhadihcro9862 The competitive elements are just regular CE gameplay. It's not detached at all. You'll see it regularly if you boot up MCC.
Also Halo Custom edition has such bad net code that weapons like the assault rifle become completely unviable so it's really not a good representation of the game's balance.
Finally someone talks about how actually really good the CE sandbox just is.
Thank you
But for further notes, the magnum is really good mostly in MP, but once you hit campaign and think "did the devs really just give me a plasma pistol?" when thats unironically the best gun in the campaign except exclusively against hunters lmao
Ye the ce plasma pistol is the gigachad weapon of the campaign
CE is the only halo with realistic explosives. Why does a drag have a damage radius of five feet in video games? I get ‘nade spam is a problem but the “nuke” explosions is more realistic.
Amazing video. I'm really glad you got all these views on the competitive side of CE.
Excellently put! I really wish many, if not all of these tricks were a product of intentional design, rather than strategies based around bugs or glitches. I love 'em for what they are, and in Halo CE they worked out amazingly. How this scenario plays out in other games, however, isn't always so awesome.
I played tons of CE but was definitely a 2, 3, Reach kid. And I learned so much from this video
Great video. I knew of a lot of the stuff here, but I did learn some new things, like the double melee and run speed effecting the power of the melee. While H3 has my favorite MP, I have a soft-spot for CE's, and I wish later Halo games carried over some of CE's design, especially launching weapons and power-ups with grenades, that shit is so cool. Like imagine an extra utility of the gravity hammer is launching weapons or power-ups towards your teammates or something. I know H5 and Infinite sorta brought that back, but it's a lot more limited in those games compared to how it is in CE. I'm surprised that you didn't talk about the Magnum's time to kill with headshots vs with body shots though. The gap between those 2 times is pretty big, and another reason why I wouldn't call the gun OP. Sure, you can finish someone off in 3 shots, but doing so requires a lot of skill. It's something I appreciate about Halo's utility weapons, and the CE magnum arguably emphasizes player skill the most.
Headshots don't actually do more damage until the shield is dropped. Two shots any where in the body will drop shields no matter what.
@@Jarekthegamingdragon Yeah, sorry if that was worded weirdly but that's what I meant. 2 shots to the body, and a headshot to finish them off versus 2 shots to the body, and then like 3 or 4 more shots to the body to get the kill.
The most likely place the “Pistol OP” joke started is probably actually the CE campaign, it’s far and away the best weapon in the campaign, it’s plentifully available in every level, pretty good at just about everything, it actually one shots almost everything there and when you don’t really know what your doing it can easily be inferred that it’s the best in multiplayer, especially when it’s so commonly used
The best weapon in CE's campaign is easily the plasma pistol. Legendary runs are just babying that gun the whole game.
@@Jarekthegamingdragon I disagree and am now seething with anger but it’s completely fair to say the plasma pistol is better
I mean, that's not an opinion thing. The plasma pistol was busted in the first game's campaign. Fires as fast as you can spam it with lots of damage. You *need* it on legendary. The magnum really isn't in the same tier as the shotgun or plasma pistol campaign wise. Hell, up close the ar/plasma rifle is better. Being able to one tap grunts doesn't really mean a whole lot.
In my case I started with Halo 3 which is a slow paced game right next to Reach. I’ve picked up a few tricks overtime playing CE MP in MCC. It also doesn’t help that I’m aware that in MCC the hit registration is not the same like OG Xbox, same with H2. Hope they fix it like they did with H3.
H3 is also "slower" in that it doesn't have such clear and easy exploits like H1 & 2
Halo CE>Halo2
Ps. Great Video about my most beloved Halo Game besides Reach!
Those "dirty" double melee and cloak tricks new to me 👀👍
I remember being taken aback by the changes to halo 2's weapons when it came out, as you are describing and as others are saying, much more nuance and skill in halo 1's gameplay. I lived on muiltiplayer on mac back in the day and boy does this summarize the experience well.
A lot of us mostly play mostly long range maps like blood gulch and when almost every other weapon you compared the magnum too only has high skill cqc viability that makes the magnum absolutely king. Even against tanks and banshees it takes about a magazine to kill. The high shield damage of the plasma rifle is irrelevant if you're not in melee range, the assault rifle's atrocious spread at range means you're going to miss most of your shots.
No halo game has ever been balanced for big team battle. That's a very different, and a lot more casual, game experience. Not a bad thing, just that it's basically a different game.
That's why gametypes for blood gulch with the "custom" start flag starts you with a plasma pistol. There are only 4 pistols on the map and they are all far away. You also misunderstand how much range the AR and shotgun actually have. You hit almost all of your shots despite spread, even without red reticule.
Halo CE's physics made you *feel* like a supersoldier.
the Magnum, even if it was "OP" should have never been changed. it's the equalizer. it's so awesome, and even for how strong it was, it never stepped on the toes of any pickup weapons. so why kneecap it?
The biggest irony is that CE is usually seen as a slower paced halo, even though the time to kill is much faster. Also I'm only talking about multiplayer, not Legendary.
GeneralKidd used to make a lot of videos comparing all the weapons in halo, and almost every time Combat Evolved won. The CE AR, Pistol, Rocket Launcher, Grenades, Sniper Rifle, and so many more won. But like you had compared in this video, Halo 3 had the weakest weapons almost every time. So in short, every weapon in CE is overpowered.
Its really cold over here too Jarek, Colorado is getting bunches of snow. Good to hear we're not the only ones suffering ;)
It was actually over 60 yesterday. I recorded this a week or so ago LOL
@JarekTheGamingDragon Ya'll wanna take some of our wind? Theres too much here for one state to handle >.>
Nah we regularly get 50mph wind gusts thanks to being on the columbia gorge. You can keep the wind for us.
@@alexdietrich7975 Man, some of the worst wind I have ever experienced was in Colorado. All the Windows were closed but the gust of wind was so strong it still blew my door open somehow. I was just a kid so my sister and I would go hunker down in the closet. Also the only state I have experienced a Tornado in. Lots of good Beer and Bud in Colorado though, I do kind of miss the state.
This video was amazing, please more of stuff like this.
I legitimately did not know that people just memorize grenade throws to get quick access to certain weapons.
Like, that's neat, though i'm glad its a feature that was removed. I just really like that the weapons being planted on the ground means that you're forced to have to go and get it, meaning it ensures that you'll have to confront your opponent and fight them for it. Thats why the map design in Halo 2 and 3 is so great.
I would honestly argue that CE maps are better than 2/3 maps aside from the duds both games have. More importantly they brought back grenade launches in later halo games.
I want a big team CTF on Chiron TL-34 please.
Nade launching might be the biggest reason why CE is so much better than later Halos (no melee lunge being the other one). And it's not like you are safe nading a weapon from the other side of the map. Before the weapon spawns, you can nade the spot where the enemy is most likely lining up a nade launch, granting you some kills or at least preventing the enemy getting the weapon.
I think the big context that is lost on why Soo many think the Magnum is OP is simply...most of your arguments for balance are based on cheats that most casual players (especially back in the day) never knew.
Playing with our exploits makes the AR much less powerful and the magnum more impressive.
But yes the Magnum of the other games (BR) is also OP in H2 and arguably H3
Not really, as I explained the raw damage output of weapons like the AR and plasma rifle beat the pistol up close without any double melee shenanigans. People just misunderstand the sandbox as a whole.
I love how you pointed out how Halo has a different feel than the rest of the games in the series. Imo bungee never really recaptured that feel. A lot of it has to be the change in soundtrack direction, from the rompler heavy sound to a more orchestral/rock heavy sound.
Thanks for educating me on what I missed out on and putting everything in context. Great video.
I never thought it lived up to the memes but the pistol did low key feel like a rifle
My brothers and I used to system-link play CE when I was a small ass kid. It would be my brother closest in age vs my second oldest brother. Nade launching weapons was such a fun thing to do, never learned some of the advanced stuff cuz I was like 8 but managed it a few times.
CE's MP was just too early to be impactful, I feel like Halo's Trajectory would have been different if H2's success was CE's.
No one can ever tell me Chiron TL 34 with no motion sensor wasn't the funnest shit ever.
I kick my friends ass in every game but CE, he can never see this
one of the best H:CE videos ive seen explaining why its so good without going full nerd, i would say 99% of people who dislike h1 is just because they dont understand why theyre getting 50-5d in matchmaking, the skill gap is just insane, most rewarding halo to play once you get good by far
Came here from Vengeful Vadaams recommendation 🔥🔥🔥
Oh my, memories to the good old CE PC times. Clan training twice the week, wars at the weekend. Good times.
I never realized the Backpack Reloading thing, and never knew the Halo CE button combos
Never played Halo multiplayer, but your enthusiasm grabbed me.
i feel like I've been waiting for this video for forever. Perfect take bro
Thank you. Literally such a balanced game, I get so annoyed when people don't understand CE and make assumptions without even trying to get CE
okay, as someone whose teenage experience with Halo was only being able to play it whenever I went to a friend's house with an Xbox (unfortunately a rare occurrence, also take what I say with a grain of salt), the fact that none of the explanations involve the Halo CE campaign is absolutely wild to me. preface: being an unpopular kid and Nintendo fan meant I never really got to play multiplayer Halo until I got a 360 a decade after the fact. the pistol being OP was always explained to me in terms of the campaign, and given Halo kinda set the standard for console shooters it probably was a case of kids learning the pistol is more powerful than the assault rifle since you can kill an elite with a few headshots instead of unloading an entire clip and dying to plasma fire. it also probably helps you can one-shot the hunters using the magnum. I myself was a plasma rifle fan, but that's because the magnum always felt beyond my skill level; getting consistent headshots felt way too sweaty to be useful, but that only added to its allure.
and yeah, I saw your comment about the plasma pistol, but while some of them probably understood its usefulness, I'm talking about dumbass teenagers whose only way through legendary was winging it in co-op with their buddy over several weekends (one of them is the reason I defaulted to boxer for the longest time). the plasma pistol, as explained to me, was only good 'cause it automatically hits enemies, and not because it takes down entire shields in a single shot.
but that all aside, it's still wild to me because hearing the legend of the magnum in Halo CE happened well before Halo 2 or even Halo on PC came out, and I doubt I'm the only one.
If the magnum model was switched with a rifle no one wouldve said anything.
"Everything does more damage in this (CE) game." I had played and beat Halp CE on legendary way before the second game came out. When I played through the campaign on the second game I was IMMENSELY disappointed with how weak ALL the guns felt compared to the first game. I literally felt like I was just spewing BB guns at the enemies during playthrough.
This cemented in me that the Halo 2 BR is the most overpowered weapon
I sort of miss playing CE on lan, its the only halo I ever played and it was quite great
I grew up playing this game, and I never new there were some useful exploits. I gotta get back to fully experiencing multiplayer in this game again!
Seeing how deep and complex the sandbox and meta goes for Halo CE's multiplayer fills me with dread.
See this is what I love/wish more games would do even infinite. A lot of this games MP was made with the intent of just being a fun casual game that on the surface seems simple and can be easy to play, but under the surface there’s A LOT of depth for the more competitive players. Games now especially infinite are designed almost the reverse way with the more competitive elements being front and center and the casual aspects are ….. well your lucky if you get a casual experience. I play CE all the time running around just playing and i never knew about any of this and have a fun time. Infinite though its like I need to go pro gamer mode
I would love to see a video on the original xbox live Halo 2 balance patch. For a short little while before it the H2 magnum was the optimal close range go to.
I love that this video exists
I was gonna comment something about halo 2 being a higher skill ceiling but actually your analysis was informed and convincing, you know the CE meta greatly and I respect that. Great video, point very well made.
It's not really overpowered at all, it's just strange because it's supposed to be a pistol but behaves like a rifle. It's why they replaced the CE pistol with the battle rifle in Halo 2 and the assault rifle with the SMG.
This is the investigative journalism we need in the games space
My thought was that most pistols are _just_ back up weapons. I mean, in some older fps games, the pistol even had special third slot because devs knew you’d swap it a for more functional secondary, faster swap speed or whatever be damned.
Halo CE’s was just built for an actual role apart from _the backup_ .
As was Halo 3 ODST’s (the BR being removed in the original version), which is commonly regarded as the second best pistol in the franchise.
Reach and 4’s were also pretty solid because they just tried not nerf it too much like 2 and 3’s were.
On a sidenote, I also liked Rainbow 6 Vegas’s approach of letting the pistols have unlimited ammo. I’d legit try to play through missions using only the pistol for that reason, and just because you could.
odst's pistol isn't the second best. That's *definitely* the Halo 5 pistol. That thing is a mini dmr, insanely good. Also infinite, 4, and reach all have better pistols. The odst pistol is really weak.
@@Jarekthegamingdragon Well, unfortunately my Xbox One had critical internal issue that made Halo 5 unplayable, so I can’t speak on that, or Infinite really.
And you might have a point about Reach’s pistol. That thing was no pushover. Though it was also overshadowed by the DMR for it’s essential function (head shot capable, basic scope weapon).
So yeah, I won’t argue technics on which one was better, but I think the absence of the BR made you use the pistol in ODST more like you did the one in CE.
And even if it didn’t have the punch damage wise, it had a remarkable fire rate, 12 round mag, and the recoil was pretty minimal, where as Reach’s had the ever divisive reticle bloom.
I mean, popping off headshots on Grunts, and the hand-head combo on Jackals just felt so crisp with ODST’s. I can’t remember if if it could single headshot Brutes or not though.
If it could, the bobbing they did when they charged made it difficult for me to pull off, but I remember wiping an entire team of Grunts and squads of Jackals with that thing.
I can’t say that about any other Halo Pistol except CE’s. And that largely holds true playing MCC on PC.
That aside, love your content bro!
Glad someone agrees Half-Likes feel cooler than Boomer Shooters.
It couldn't single hit brutes, it was really weak. Picking up a carbine instead was the better option. Carbine was basically that game's br. Like, it's fun to use, just not really in the same tier.
@@Jarekthegamingdragon That’s fair.
So, the CE magnum isn't overpowered, it's just all of CE is dialed up to 11
even the campaign for me still wins out over the excellent sequels. I like them all actually but it's HaloCE that I play the most
Thank you for talking about the best halo game in the series. I stopped being a fan of halo after CE because of it not being the same or better.
Cringe.
I've never understood why people think the magnum is overpowered. Even knowing nothing else but the campaign itself, that alone should have taught any player just how powerful pretty much every weapon is. All of them have specific powerful uses but are still pretty damn useful outside their niche cases.
For example, the AR has shotgun-in-any-other-game levels of close range dps and has a slightly delayed bloom to allow burst fire use making it viable up to the ranges of wall to wall in most any enclosed room in the campaign (from the Pillar of Autumn's corridors to the flood intro's maze of a complex) as well as having a massive magazine size and a lightning fast melee. It fills a strong close range niche and has a general reliability from excess of ammo (via magazine, total, and pick-ups) and burst fire to work well across the board.
I could do this same summary for each weapon, but this is one weapon often called weak by people, and this 'weak' weapon compared to the magnum is, in fact, much stronger in a third (fourth?) of situations and roughly comparable in another large fraction of the situations a player deals with. If someone can't even understand that basic stuff (ignoring all the fancy tricks like double melee, charging bonus to melee or faster return to invisibility on a weapon), then I don't know how I could take their "OP" assertions seriously.
really interesting video, ive always enjoyed CE's multiplayer in a more casual sense but i almost never play it online in 4v4 settings.
The very first time I played Halo CE online, the very first match, one of the guys on my team threw a grenade seemingly randomly into the air, I thought he just hit the button by mistake... UNTIL I NOTICED THE FUCKING ROCKET LAUNCHER FLYING TOWARD HIM!!!!!!! I was so glad he was on my team, he kicked Ass thr whole match.
"the CE magnum has bloom"
*Triggered*
Please talk about CE more i find this all incredibly interesting and would like to know more
Back in the days of competitive CE, more than 15 years ago at this point, everyone used pistols. It was common knowledge, at high skill, that other weapons had their strengths and these tricks were known. The reason no one used anything else other than a pistol, at least in the scene I played in, was because the pistol made your character stick his head up like a lamp-post, making headshots way easier to get with... a pistol. Or a sniper rifle if you managed to get one, but the magnum was a weapon everybody had. So it was kind of a self-feeding loop.
Kind of miss getting people frustrated during scrims because I would blast them with the AR around corners while crouch-moving lmao
My general though is that because CE's weapon pool is so shallow (which was honestly kind of nice), the magnum was just a rifle reskinned as a pistol
This was exactly what I hoped it would be. Thank you for helping to spread the truth.
There's 2 kinds of people in the world; Those forged in the fires of OG Bloodgulch, and those who were not.
I know which one Jarek is.
Love how there is really no mention of the shotgun being busted AF. Would take a lot of convincing to prove that.
Also can someone tell me why Halo CE is the only multiplayer with infinite grenades option (as far as FPS Halo console releases)? I loved playing with infinite grenades but they never made it an option again.
God this takes me back. As a kid growing up without a console, I ONLY played PC CE all through middle/highschool.
Coming back to other Halos, it's great to finally understand what I was "missing" from CE.
That shit got ssswweeeatttttyy and i fucking loved it. And with only mnk players so you KNEW every kill was solely based on skill and not a computer holding everyone's hands? *chef's kiss*
I am really glad you made this video because Halo CE's sandbox is so misunderstood. But I would have liked to see a more in-depth discussion of the Magnum. I wish you had gone more in depth with your analysis of the Magnum, highlighting all the little details that most people overlook.
One example - notice how the Magnum has 12 rounds per magazine.
We know the Magnum can kill an opponent in 3 shots, given you are skilled at aiming its projectile bullet. So having 12 bullets in a magazine means that a single individual player can kill the entire enemy team, in a 4v4, with a single magazine, if they are skilled enough.
This demonstrates how the skill ceiling is very high with Halo CE, that it is on another level compared to the sequels. It shows the power that the Halo CE sandbox gives to the individual player, and how it rewards the player for mastering the guns.