Be much easier if these lads gave a MACHINE, the a GRIND SETTING for different grinders or different coffee beans. I mean Gaggia Classic, if you have the Specialita Grinder this is your setting for light beans and this for Med. beans and this for dark beans. Next up, the Rancho Silvia............etc.
"it is annoying" sums up the process of dialing in espresso perfectly! I love it now I've learned more about dialing in but it was definitely hard to begin with! I can't think of many food/drink preparations that are so finicky to get right. Tiny changes in particle size or a few extra ml extracted can be the difference between perfection and a bitter or sour coffee. When it's right though, it can be incredible. Great content as always!
It's amazing that tens of thousands of cafes, restaurants and pastry shops in Italy, Spain and Portugal and their multiple tens of thousands of employees don't seem to have any problem with this - and haven't for the past 60+ years. But, every millennial that's discovered coffee in the past 20 years seems to believe they're onto something new. SMH. I was pulling shots on a $3000 machine in 1988 at a restaurant without ever making one sour. Now machines cost 10x that and you can't get anything but garbage at a typical US or Canadian-style cafe.
@@espressomatic coffee knowledge has moved on a lot even in the last decade or so. I'm sure the coffee back then wasn't sour because it was likely quite dark roasted with little acidity but I doubt it was nearly as tasty as coffee available at good cafes nowadays. I'm sure many of the cafes etc that you mention probably didn't have any difficulty making coffee but probably also did it badly by comparison to modern standards. That said, I'm sure the typical coffee establishments in most countries are still going to be mediocre and the best will be the minority of speciality cafes.
I don't dial in. I pull a shot I drink it, next shot I'll adjust slightly. I'm not getting optimal shots but it's zero waste. Range is huge and it's all still within an ok range, unlike some cafes.
I've had that reaction to sour espresso, but I've never had the echo, no matter how loud I yell. That only comes from being a TRUE Espresso Master. Great video as always Lance!
Once I was so desperate from going finer and finer and still getting sour that I just went in the other direction because what the heck else I was supposed to do. And you guessed it, I got sweeter! that was a revelation. And now I finally understand why and hopefully will be able to make a more informed decision in future. Thanks Lance!
Same! I have a light roast coffee that is just overly sour when grinded very fine. It seems better because the time is longer but actually when I grinded coarser and it comes out faster it tastes instantly better.
@@TECHNIKMM actually for lighter roasts I noticed that that was the case yes. Grinding coarser and getting a shot in 20 seconds gave the best taste. Going against all general rules😅
Tried my first straight espresso shot this morning…and it was the worst taste I’ve ever had from a drink. 🤣 So thankful for your video and TH-cam’s algorithm this morning.
Haha. Same here. My first thoughts were 'Why did I spend so much money on this new hobby and get the most horrible espresso shot I've ever had?'. There is so much to learn. Grateful for all these free lessons
My coffee was constanly sour although I nailed everything to an extent you'd not believe. In the end, the reason was THE TEMPERATURE! It does way more than you think at least for light roast coffee but I guess that's why you are here! So IF YOUR SPECIALTY COFFEE IS STILL SOUR, RAISE YOUR TEMP TO 96 deg C / 205 f and see what happens. MAGIC. From there lower it slowly to fine tune. De rien.
Great video!! I was struggling because I was trying to pull a 30g shot from 20g of medium roasted beans and no matter what grind size I was using it was tasting sour. Upped it to 35 and suddenly the shot was sweet! Subscribed ❤️🤝
I had a regular problem with sour shots when I was experimenting with an early model Flair lever machine. Shots times were good, prep seemed good. Eventually I figured out that the main issue was temperature management, it was difficult to get the temperature of the group high and keep it there during the shot. I had to soak the whole steel group in near boiling water, reassemble it, and then do the shot as fast as possible before it lost too much temperature (without burning my hands). Tricky!
You can insulate the one with a heater and let the temperature get a bit high. Then turn the heat off and as the temperature slowly drops, time when to do the extraction. You can use a fast reading thermometer like a Thermapen.
Bless you, letting my shots run longer to the 1:3-1:4 lungo range really cut down on sourness and let alot more sweet flavors through. I'm sure a grinder with finer adjustments, or a better machine would make true proper espresso, but not everyone has the time and money to make 100% perfect shots.
Lance this is the best video on explaining the concepts of coffee extraction. You have a super human talent for breaking things down and making them easy to understand. Well done !!
Made what I would consider an unoptimal extraction yesterday and it tastes great and pulled it near perfect today only to be super sour. Glad I found this video
The best thing I ever did for better tasting shots is puck prep, especially WDT. WDT was a game changer for more satisfying espresso. Whether the shots are long, short, middle or turbo... it always tastes better with WDT. It very much helps with the bitter and sour issues.
I was getting sour espresso on the absolute finest grind setting on my grinder. Was so confused until I realised even at the finest setting my grinder wasn’t grinding fine enough. So I brought out my manual grinder and after a few practice shots, I was getting perfect, delicious espresso. I’m so chuffed!
Lance, that is a great detailed video, thanks for your advice. I bought and tested the equipment and it greatly improved the quality of my espresso. Thank-you, so much!
This video could not have come at a better time for me, i just got a grinder and was so excited to taste the espresso only to find that it was super sour!!
Just saved an under extracted shot of James Hoffman's "Il Grifone" by transferring the puck to my Hario Switch. The under extracted shot in the cup and 180 ml 85 celcius water in the dripper - let it steam for 1 min and release to the cup and mix. Made a very decent cup of coffee and then we dialed in the grind size for a very nice espresso. Zero waste of precious beans.
unless the cappuccino has caramel syrup it is undrinkable to me but most are in any event thus considering trashing this barista pro with no support from breville
Sometimes sour gets mistaken for acidic. So don't always just pour the shot down the sink. Make a latte with it. And if the sour tasting shot makes a tasty latte.. chances are the shot was acidic and not sour. I recently discovered this when I switched from a high to medium roast coffee bean. I thought my beans were still too fresh and full of CO2. As I thought it was sour tasting. I poured the first couple shots down the sink. Then thought I'll just use the 3rd sour shot in a latte instead of wasting it. The latte tasted just as good as the latte I bought from the coffee shop where I bought the beans from
So what’s the difference? I’ve been asking this question for months and nobody wants to answer it. How is very acidic and sour not the same if sourness is basically caused by the presence of acid?
@@mitchkronowit3633 sour ≠ acidic unpleasant taste from sour shot can easily be differentiated if you using milk because if u drink lemon latte it will be unpleasant right? 😅
Your videos are exactly what most of us need. I just made a sour coffee with proper timing and ratio..and i find this video 😅 thank you! Your hair is amazing ❤
Great video. The scenario of too fine a grind creating a fast extraction is a real sleeper case. Getting puck prep consistent is a must before diagnosing and assuming other culprit.
Depending on the beans I had also great success using the blooming allongé extraction. I get more fruitiness snd and no sourness which is also easily explained by your extraction tipps and tricks
Thanks for the tips. Just pull a sour one: 18g in - 38g out - 60sec. Gonna try coarser grind tomorrow while keeping other variables the same. Really learn something from your explanation! Great job!
Great video. Yeah, espresso isn't rocket science, but it isn't simple either. Many people simplify their approach and assume water is going through the puck evenly. Your explanation is straight forward and genius and I have used it with my friends who complain about "sour espresso". Brilliant Sir.
thank youuuu for this. I’ve been watching a lot of videos trying to find the answer because mine have been really sour but take too much time to reach the right volume. will go a bit coarser!! tysm
Excellent reminder of some basic principles and timely since I’ve had a lot of sour happening recently. Also kudos for the use of “en flique”, sadly no product or tips will bring back my locks.
well i'm impressed simply for the fact that you are a coffee professional and coffee drinker (and professional coffee drinker lulz) and yet you are wearing a white shirt and it seems to be spotless.
I bought a De'Longhi La Specialista Arte a few weeks ago and despite having rusty but decent skills as a barista in the early 90s (not Starbucks), I've had a hell of a time trying to dial in a decent espresso. I'm close, but thank you for these awesome videos and hopefully these tips help.
I am struggling with sour or underdeveloped espresso shots, and it confused me a great deal when my espresso still had bitterness in it, though obviously under extracted, and I also experienced that sourness tends to increase when grinding finer, which was confusing as well. Thanks for addressing these seemingly odd phenomena.
Surprised you didn't mention temperature much. Although some machines you don't have much control over that, but you do have control over grind size and brew times and ratios
Great video lance. I went courser and way better. I have an older breville duo temp using a double shot double lined high pressure basket. I think that’s why it was so sour before because I had the grind way to fine
One problem I have is: when I grind finer, I either clog my filter or I get a really fast extraction (50g+ in 25~30 seconds), using a Delonghi Dedica, JX Pro, WDT, bottomless PF. After MONTHS of trying new things I gave up and accepted it's something with either my grinder or machine. My hacky solution is to get water that is very rich in sodium bicarbonate (300~600mg/L), which mutes the sourness quite a bit and also makes the coffee extra creamy haha
Hey Lance. Great video! Question on pre-infusion and how I should think about it relative to the duration of the shot? Do you consider pre-infusion as part of the shot duration or do you exclude pre-infusion time from shot duration? TIA!
Thanks for the video, really helpful. Although i recently found out that my dedica is common for not getting very hot water temp, how imperative is that. Increasing my yeild did reduce the sourness. I think your curls are awesome and the mo
My home roasted makes sour espresso, my experimental store bought Lavazza has no sourness with the same machine and process. I believe how you roast makes a big difference
How to fix bitter espresso? Today I used lightly roasted Ehitopia beans and got more bitterness and less frutiness/freshness. I used 1:3 ratio (17gr in, 51 out. Grinder used is 1ZPresso and machine F58.) Should I grind coarser in order to fix the bitterness here? Any tips on extracting better and more consistent shots with the Flair 58? Thank you for the amazing videos and tips!
Solid video. As a non native English speaker, I find that one simple thing not done enough is simply, erm, clarifying the terms "bitter" and "sour" which seem to be used interchangeably in English, even if they mean completely different things.
At first I thought you pulled a good espresso and just pretended it was sour for the intro but the end of the video convinced me otherwise. I like it! 😄
Thank you, great info .. I personally, love a typical Italian espresso extraction, where you only see crema during the whole beverage (even though very short) And never see black liquid ; This is what i love but could almost never obtain..
Very easy to obtain (tho I despise this kind of espresso)- Use a SUPER fresh Italian or French roast coffee. Preferably 50% or more robusta. And, that's it.
@@LanceHedrick yup, not for everyone .. After a lot trials, I doubted that the freshness was this issue.. Hard to find, in my taste but recently discovered portuguese roasts,, in portugal, love it Thank you again
Very new to espresso here and getting very frustrated with this issue. First English is not my first language so I'm not 100% sure if I should describe my shot as acidic or sour but they are horrible no matter what I try. Would love to be able to get a "sweet" shot some time. I'm on my third bag of coffee already and I haven't enjoyed a single shot yet LOL. I'll try to start logging every thing I do to see if that helps.
Mind blown. I've been subscribing to Verve coffee and been struggling with the sour notes (20g/30sec/40g). After watching this, I went back to my grinder, set it to finer grind (20g/60sec/38g) and it was still sour. Then I went to the opposite extreme with a courser grind (20g/23sec/41g) and it was PERFECT. Seriously guys! Literally just had to pull 2 shots to solve the problem. It's amazing how only a few seconds can completely transform the flavor. Ironically, the Verve website recommends those settings and I never even thought to look. 😖
Well explained. Do you have any suggestions for Intelligentsia Black Cat Espresso? That one is really difficult to brew espresso with - always comes out sour.
From one guy to another because I know we usually don't enough compliments. The hair and moustache is looking mighty fine on you. No opinion on the product. Probably no harm in just linking it. Have a nice day and thanks for the coffee knowledge
Lance, I love your videos. I learned so much from you already. I thought still struggle with having a stable shot of espresso. My process: - Niche 0 for grinding to cup - Move coffee from cup to basket, WDC, distribute with OCD - Tamp with Decent Tamper (the one with spring) - Pull espresso with Sage/Breville Dual Boiler My main problem is - 18/36 ratio takes from 28 to 35s when everything else seems to be exactly same (maybe my tamping strenght varies, but a tamper with spring should even it out). It also makes shots taste a bit different one from the other and I can't work on the perfecting it :(. What might be the thing I'm still missing? The other question I would like to ask is - how to learn to taste the difference between sour and acid... I think I might know it but would love to know how to train my taste and be sure which one I'm tasting?
First, ditch the ocd. wdt, tap, tamp. Second, play with the ratio. 18:36 doesn't work on most coffees. Just a vague starting point. Third, remember there is a preinfusion built in on the BDB that is not on other machines. Play with ratio more and with times (going shorter)
@@LanceHedrick which direction would you suggest trying to go? 1:3? how should I then try to time the extraction to have a good direction/starting point with experiments? Coffe I'm currently using is a mix of Brasilia and Honduras 1330-1400 m.a.s.l. dark roasted
@@EmperorSon Try this for dark roast: 88° temperature 17 g in / 40 ml out in around 19-23 second. After that you can play with the ratio to find the perfect spot of your coffee. Remember even extraction is your goal not the ratio.
I tasted a lot of espresso’s from ‘modern’ roasters at their own cafes and they were all sour. Some more balanced than others, but all sour. I don’t like it. Balancing out sourness only works for those who like the high acidity espresso. For others, buy lower altitude arabica coffee roasted by a more traditional roaster. There is nothing wrong with that and you won’t be less of an espresso lover ❤
This!.. i was almost getting embarrassed because i like “traditional Italian” flavor profiles with a little kick of robusta, and I’m often grilled by third wave people…… almost all coffee nerd content on TH-cam is about quite acidic coffee these days, and for me that type only works in pour overs or aero press.
I agree. The problem wouldn't be there if it had not been for the stubborn insistance of putting too light roasted coffee in an espresso machine. Sometimes it tastes like lemon juice has been added. These people call it 'brightness' but I call it unbalanced. I had a Kagere espresso at Tim Wendelboe and it was so sour I struggled to finish it.
I went to two good cafe's / roasters the other day and they pulled shots for me that were from lighter roasts and I was surprised how smooth balanced and low acidity it was, without any sugar or anything added. Some cafe's might not have their light roasts dialed in properly. At home I don't mind a little sourness / acidity since I like to add a bit of sugar, and I like the combo of a little sweet and sour.
@@BensCoffeeRants it can be a number of things. First of all a lighter roast can be a medium roast for somebody else. For me a light espresso roast is one that is dropped during or shortly after first crack. A roast midway between first and second crack I call a medium roast but this is still light compared to roast that went to second crack. Also different people have different taste preferences. Dialing in could be issue but in my case I doubt it. It is just my disliking of acidic espresso. I cannot enjoy it nor find it interesting enough to drink anyway. But I know some people do like it. My point is that if somebody complains that espresso is sour you should first check her or his taste preference. Maybe you cannot blame a roaster for roasting sour espresso but you can blame him for advising the wrong beans for making espresso. Selecting the right beans for your taste preference is totally missing in this video, lance even suggests it doesn’t matter.
Good advice and explanations as always. I have a Breville built-in grinder with my Pro. Puck prep and a WDT tool made a huge difference. Next on the list… grinder upgrade. I’m actually glad I went with a built in grinder. It will make me appreciate a better grinder even more.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: ☕ Understanding the extraction process: Coffee extraction involves three main phases - sour, sweet, and bitter. 🧊 Sourness indicators: Sourness in espresso can stem from underextraction, characterized by sour and watery shots, or overextraction, leading to bitterness and dryness. 📏 Fixing underextraction: If your espresso is sour and underextracted, adjust by fining the grind and allowing more contact time for better extraction. 🏋️♂️ Fixing overextraction: If your espresso is bitter and overextracted, coarse the grind to promote even water flow through the coffee puck. 🔄 Adjusting extraction time: Tailor extraction time to achieve the desired flavor profile, whether it requires lengthening or shortening the extraction process. 📐 Consistent preparation: Ensure consistent and thorough preparation methods, such as distributing grounds evenly and tamping consistently, for better extraction. 🚫 Tamp pressure myth: Tamp pressure doesn't significantly affect extraction; focus instead on grind size, extraction time, and coffee-to-water ratio. 🌟 Aim for sweetness: Apply these tips to brew sweeter espresso and improve overall coffee quality. Made with HARPA AI
How about a video on using paper filters above and below the grinds. Does a paper filter below the grinds trap finds? What is the effect on taste? I find it necessary to grind rather fine when using a filter on the bottom of the grinds. Finally, I have a needle valve on top of my e61 brew head and a pressure gauge any hints on getting the best shot out of that setup?
With my good grinders I haven't noticed it affecting body or the amount of bitterness / fines, but because using a paper filter requires a finer grind size, it's kinda hard to compare directly with and without it. I think you might be onto something if your grinder does give a lot of fines paper filter may be even more beneficial. Coffee flows faster with the paper filter because the fines aren't clogging the holes, instead they're captured the larger surface area of the paper filter I believe.
Thanks for the informative video!! I see you got your hands on the Happy Tamper and used it in the video. I finally received mine and have used it only once; still adjusting to it. So far I am happy but interested to hear your thoughts. Thank again.
Hey there, I appreciate you going into more detail about this as I'm one to struggle with this myself, and having a GCP certainly doesn't help I'd say, but adding in some examples and references from your previous videos is quite nice. However I had a couple questions if you, or anyone else, wouldn't mind that I believe mix into this whole thing. The first bit is roast level. I know there isn't really a thing but as a simple benchmark and my own testing, again from someone who is suffering from sourness, dark roast would taste dark and bitter to the point of not tasting sour as much. Light roast would be easier to tell from less of that strong coffee taste, but I generally found it more on the bitter side than sour side once finding a decent grind size. And medium seems to always taste sour for me, no matter how much I've changed it the shot seems to always be sour- which I found very weird. The second thing is in the realm of puck prep, but more so the evenness of the bed. Either before or after a shot I'll notice the puck is uneven- slanted if you will. In my mind this must make a difference and something must be going wrong. The puck after extraction can seem slanted but only moist- not watery thankfully. If you have any insight or thoughts on this and/or more I'd love to hear it. Again this is open to anyone as I really wanna fix where I'm going wrong, as I for one am to blame myself rather than my equipment first. P.S. Love the hair
I think one reason darker roasted coffees are less sour is because they are easier to extract even if the grind, the puck prep, water pressure and temperature are a bit off. Darker roasted coffee is just more water soluble than lighter roasts allowing for more even extraction throughout the entire pull of the shot. Light roasts need to be more carefully dialed in and are less forgiving in all ways. The unlevel bed sounds like a tamp with simply more pressure on one side of the bed. After the bed has seen water pressure that unlevel tamp may be very exaggerated. It could look level before being pressurized by 9 bars of H2O. Imagine a bed with 15 lbs on one side and 20 lbs on the other, but that appears level before you make your espresso.
I haven't had an issue with sour tasting coffee from all the coffee that I have bought up until now. Great streak of luck comes to an end one might say. 😅 I bought 2 bags from Aldi which are about 2/3 months old and man, whatever I've tried it is so acidic tasting. I obviously won't be buying them again but I want to at least finish the remainder in a way that doesn't taste bad. So it seems as though I'm not getting enough yield. I tried going fine and course but no luck. I'll try increasing the yield to 2.5x and see if that eliminates the sourness.
Nicely done! Great explanation. Espresso brewing is not a simple exercise. From a practical standpoint though, to make adjustments, should i change more than one variable at a time?
I've had to learn this the long way. Changing one variable at a time in small increments is by far the best. Not only so you can learn what each is doing to the flavor profile, but sometimes only that one change makes the entire shot work.
I don't know what sour means. I only taste really bitter coffee, so does that mean sour? Or, is that acidic? Either way, when I use a medium roast EXPENSIVE coffee, it tastes bitter to me. Help me Lance! FYI, I have a good grinder - Baratza ESP, but lousy machine. I don't want to upgrade the machine until I understand more of this process, but should I?
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
The more I learn about espresso, the less I know about espresso...
Thank you!! ❤
I'm right with you in Dunning-Kruger's valley of despair.
@@BlakeYuckert I was thinking the saaaame! Looking forward to climbing back up, slowly but surely
true
Be much easier if these lads gave a MACHINE, the a GRIND SETTING for different grinders or different coffee beans. I mean Gaggia Classic, if you have the Specialita Grinder this is your setting for light beans and this for Med. beans and this for dark beans. Next up, the Rancho Silvia............etc.
"it is annoying" sums up the process of dialing in espresso perfectly! I love it now I've learned more about dialing in but it was definitely hard to begin with! I can't think of many food/drink preparations that are so finicky to get right. Tiny changes in particle size or a few extra ml extracted can be the difference between perfection and a bitter or sour coffee. When it's right though, it can be incredible. Great content as always!
It's amazing that tens of thousands of cafes, restaurants and pastry shops in Italy, Spain and Portugal and their multiple tens of thousands of employees don't seem to have any problem with this - and haven't for the past 60+ years. But, every millennial that's discovered coffee in the past 20 years seems to believe they're onto something new. SMH.
I was pulling shots on a $3000 machine in 1988 at a restaurant without ever making one sour. Now machines cost 10x that and you can't get anything but garbage at a typical US or Canadian-style cafe.
@@espressomatic coffee knowledge has moved on a lot even in the last decade or so. I'm sure the coffee back then wasn't sour because it was likely quite dark roasted with little acidity but I doubt it was nearly as tasty as coffee available at good cafes nowadays. I'm sure many of the cafes etc that you mention probably didn't have any difficulty making coffee but probably also did it badly by comparison to modern standards. That said, I'm sure the typical coffee establishments in most countries are still going to be mediocre and the best will be the minority of speciality cafes.
I don't dial in. I pull a shot I drink it, next shot I'll adjust slightly. I'm not getting optimal shots but it's zero waste. Range is huge and it's all still within an ok range, unlike some cafes.
Bruh is a genius. IQ 9000. A coffee master in every possible way. Great teaching, amazing video quality.
hahah thank you, Johnny! Glad you enjoyed it!
I've had that reaction to sour espresso, but I've never had the echo, no matter how loud I yell. That only comes from being a TRUE Espresso Master. Great video as always Lance!
haha! I love this.
Just gotta yell louder. 😂
You need to grind finer to get the echo.
nah, I tried that again, no flicking echo...
I've had the echo. That's how sour mine is....
Once I was so desperate from going finer and finer and still getting sour that I just went in the other direction because what the heck else I was supposed to do. And you guessed it, I got sweeter! that was a revelation. And now I finally understand why and hopefully will be able to make a more informed decision in future. Thanks Lance!
What settings did you find this sweeter settings?
So going coarser makes it sweeter?
@@TECHNIKMMyes... But you'll only understand why if you watch the video.
Same! I have a light roast coffee that is just overly sour when grinded very fine. It seems better because the time is longer but actually when I grinded coarser and it comes out faster it tastes instantly better.
@@TECHNIKMM actually for lighter roasts I noticed that that was the case yes. Grinding coarser and getting a shot in 20 seconds gave the best taste. Going against all general rules😅
Best explanation I’ve ever seen in my 10 years of sour/bitter shots. Very understandable.
Wow you are far more patient than I am..7 months now and almost $2k spent and 3 enjoyable cups...
Thank you for all of this information! Very much appreciated!
@@kenroman777 well it's your fault if you've spent £1800 on something you didn't know if you were good at
You made me feel a bit better. I hope I get it in less time I'm not that patient
@@kenroman777 Good grinder, puck prep, and follow advice in this video.
Tried my first straight espresso shot this morning…and it was the worst taste I’ve ever had from a drink. 🤣 So thankful for your video and TH-cam’s algorithm this morning.
Haha. Same here. My first thoughts were 'Why did I spend so much money on this new hobby and get the most horrible espresso shot I've ever had?'. There is so much to learn. Grateful for all these free lessons
My coffee was constanly sour although I nailed everything to an extent you'd not believe. In the end, the reason was THE TEMPERATURE! It does way more than you think at least for light roast coffee but I guess that's why you are here! So IF YOUR SPECIALTY COFFEE IS STILL SOUR, RAISE YOUR TEMP TO 96 deg C / 205 f and see what happens. MAGIC. From there lower it slowly to fine tune. De rien.
I've been watching some of your older uploads... and then I watch this one. The step up in presentation is phenomenal dude!
Great video!! I was struggling because I was trying to pull a 30g shot from 20g of medium roasted beans and no matter what grind size I was using it was tasting sour. Upped it to 35 and suddenly the shot was sweet! Subscribed ❤️🤝
I had a regular problem with sour shots when I was experimenting with an early model Flair lever machine. Shots times were good, prep seemed good. Eventually I figured out that the main issue was temperature management, it was difficult to get the temperature of the group high and keep it there during the shot. I had to soak the whole steel group in near boiling water, reassemble it, and then do the shot as fast as possible before it lost too much temperature (without burning my hands). Tricky!
You can insulate the one with a heater and let the temperature get a bit high. Then turn the heat off and as the temperature slowly drops, time when to do the extraction. You can use a fast reading thermometer like a Thermapen.
Bless you, letting my shots run longer to the 1:3-1:4 lungo range really cut down on sourness and let alot more sweet flavors through.
I'm sure a grinder with finer adjustments, or a better machine would make true proper espresso, but not everyone has the time and money to make 100% perfect shots.
Lance this is the best video on explaining the concepts of coffee extraction. You have a super human talent for breaking things down and making them easy to understand. Well done !!
Made what I would consider an unoptimal extraction yesterday and it tastes great and pulled it near perfect today only to be super sour. Glad I found this video
The best thing I ever did for better tasting shots is puck prep, especially WDT. WDT was a game changer for more satisfying espresso. Whether the shots are long, short, middle or turbo... it always tastes better with WDT. It very much helps with the bitter and sour issues.
I was getting sour espresso on the absolute finest grind setting on my grinder. Was so confused until I realised even at the finest setting my grinder wasn’t grinding fine enough. So I brought out my manual grinder and after a few practice shots, I was getting perfect, delicious espresso. I’m so chuffed!
Lance, that is a great detailed video, thanks for your advice. I bought and tested the equipment and it greatly improved the quality of my espresso. Thank-you, so much!
This video could not have come at a better time for me, i just got a grinder and was so excited to taste the espresso only to find that it was super sour!!
i always enjoying watching Lance's TH-cam, easy to understand and a strong sense of humor.
That's really helpful info. Could you create a cheat sheet that lists all those situations and explains how to spot and then to fix them?
Just saved an under extracted shot of James Hoffman's "Il Grifone" by transferring the puck to my Hario Switch. The under extracted shot in the cup and 180 ml 85 celcius water in the dripper - let it steam for 1 min and release to the cup and mix. Made a very decent cup of coffee and then we dialed in the grind size for a very nice espresso. Zero waste of precious beans.
Thank you for explaining how under-extraction can be caused both by having it too course as well as too fine.
If after all of that, you can’t drink that espresso because is still “sour “, make a cappuccino, move on and be happy 😂
unless the cappuccino has caramel syrup it is undrinkable to me but most are in any event thus considering trashing this barista pro with no support from breville
@@kenroman777 ?
Or drink tea
@@kenroman777 maybe you just don’t like espresso
I’m with you! Throw some milk on it, pump of syrup and enjoy.
Sometimes sour gets mistaken for acidic. So don't always just pour the shot down the sink. Make a latte with it. And if the sour tasting shot makes a tasty latte.. chances are the shot was acidic and not sour. I recently discovered this when I switched from a high to medium roast coffee bean. I thought my beans were still too fresh and full of CO2. As I thought it was sour tasting. I poured the first couple shots down the sink. Then thought I'll just use the 3rd sour shot in a latte instead of wasting it. The latte tasted just as good as the latte I bought from the coffee shop where I bought the beans from
So what’s the difference? I’ve been asking this question for months and nobody wants to answer it.
How is very acidic and sour not the same if sourness is basically caused by the presence of acid?
@@mitchkronowit3633 sour ≠ acidic unpleasant taste from sour shot can easily be differentiated if you using milk because if u drink lemon latte it will be unpleasant right? 😅
Your videos are exactly what most of us need. I just made a sour coffee with proper timing and ratio..and i find this video 😅 thank you! Your hair is amazing ❤
Great video. The scenario of too fine a grind creating a fast extraction is a real sleeper case. Getting puck prep consistent is a must before diagnosing and assuming other culprit.
Depending on the beans I had also great success using the blooming allongé extraction. I get more fruitiness snd and no sourness which is also easily explained by your extraction tipps and tricks
Thanks for the tips. Just pull a sour one: 18g in - 38g out - 60sec. Gonna try coarser grind tomorrow while keeping other variables the same. Really learn something from your explanation! Great job!
Great video. Yeah, espresso isn't rocket science, but it isn't simple either. Many people simplify their approach and assume water is going through the puck evenly. Your explanation is straight forward and genius and I have used it with my friends who complain about "sour espresso". Brilliant Sir.
Far and away the best espresso channel on TH-cam.
thank youuuu for this. I’ve been watching a lot of videos trying to find the answer because mine have been really sour but take too much time to reach the right volume. will go a bit coarser!! tysm
Those curls were the first thing I noticed on my 4K TV! 😍
Excellent reminder of some basic principles and timely since I’ve had a lot of sour happening recently. Also kudos for the use of “en flique”, sadly no product or tips will bring back my locks.
This was helpful for me, and also I one hundred percent subscribed because of your on-fleek curls.
the curls are immaculate Lance. my hair is too short at the moment but do link them in the description box!
Love the details!!! Dang I always learn a lot from you Lance! now we need the “bitter” version!
I want my Lelit now! BTW Lance, congratulations on the production and editing of your new videos! They are really awesome!
Love the mic a d the voice. Very clear! Great job Lance
A lot of this was basics, but there were a few nuggets that's were super helpful. I'd love the bitter side of this discussion too
This is great advice man. Thanks. I’ve been struggling with grind size being too fine. I’ll try more coarse to see if things get better.
well i'm impressed simply for the fact that you are a coffee professional and coffee drinker (and professional coffee drinker lulz) and yet you are wearing a white shirt and it seems to be spotless.
I bought a De'Longhi La Specialista Arte a few weeks ago and despite having rusty but decent skills as a barista in the early 90s (not Starbucks), I've had a hell of a time trying to dial in a decent espresso. I'm close, but thank you for these awesome videos and hopefully these tips help.
I am struggling with sour or underdeveloped espresso shots, and it confused me a great deal when my espresso still had bitterness in it, though obviously under extracted, and I also experienced that sourness tends to increase when grinding finer, which was confusing as well. Thanks for addressing these seemingly odd phenomena.
Hi Lance, very informative, hope I can turn it into practice. P.S. 13min. without grasping for air... very good
Surprised you didn't mention temperature much. Although some machines you don't have much control over that, but you do have control over grind size and brew times and ratios
You’re stepping your game up with the intros! Beautifully done!
Lance, when do you start your timer? When you flick the switch or from the first drop ?
Dude you nail it every time! Thank you for your help.
Thank you Lance! And yes, your hair looks so shiny, amazing!
Great video lance. I went courser and way better. I have an older breville duo temp using a double shot double lined high pressure basket. I think that’s why it was so sour before because I had the grind way to fine
Well, that's something we can work with... Many thanks! Mate of mine sold his stuff out off pure frustration 😂
bro im getting there with the touch impress... i have never owned a more frustrating product to learn off of.
Thanks Lance, great video as always. This lines up to my experience of puckering sour shots that are extracted too long and have small yield.
One problem I have is: when I grind finer, I either clog my filter or I get a really fast extraction (50g+ in 25~30 seconds), using a Delonghi Dedica, JX Pro, WDT, bottomless PF. After MONTHS of trying new things I gave up and accepted it's something with either my grinder or machine. My hacky solution is to get water that is very rich in sodium bicarbonate (300~600mg/L), which mutes the sourness quite a bit and also makes the coffee extra creamy haha
Thanks Hance. That was a lot of help 👌 btw, what effect does pre-infusion have on the taste?
How's nobody mentioning that insane intro? Amazing work, Lance!
Hey Lance. Great video! Question on pre-infusion and how I should think about it relative to the duration of the shot? Do you consider pre-infusion as part of the shot duration or do you exclude pre-infusion time from shot duration? TIA!
Thanks for the video, really helpful. Although i recently found out that my dedica is common for not getting very hot water temp, how imperative is that. Increasing my yeild did reduce the sourness. I think your curls are awesome and the mo
My home roasted makes sour espresso, my experimental store bought Lavazza has no sourness with the same machine and process. I believe how you roast makes a big difference
Thank you Lance. I dont think anyone could have said it better.
Yeah go on, link them.
I gotchu on them hair products homie. Lmk if you need some curly tips. Love the videos. Keep the tips coming.
How to fix bitter espresso? Today I used lightly roasted Ehitopia beans and got more bitterness and less frutiness/freshness. I used 1:3 ratio (17gr in, 51 out. Grinder used is 1ZPresso and machine F58.) Should I grind coarser in order to fix the bitterness here? Any tips on extracting better and more consistent shots with the Flair 58? Thank you for the amazing videos and tips!
To be a great coffee person I must, therefore, have great hair. I understand... now I have work to do. Thank you for this video!
Great practical information! I imagine this would be useful for most people entering the confusing world of coffee. I also enjoyed your “bad” jokes.
Solid video. As a non native English speaker, I find that one simple thing not done enough is simply, erm, clarifying the terms "bitter" and "sour" which seem to be used interchangeably in English, even if they mean completely different things.
At first I thought you pulled a good espresso and just pretended it was sour for the intro but the end of the video convinced me otherwise. I like it! 😄
Thank you, great info ..
I personally, love a typical Italian espresso extraction, where you only see crema during the whole beverage (even though very short)
And never see black liquid ;
This is what i love but could almost never obtain..
Very easy to obtain (tho I despise this kind of espresso)-
Use a SUPER fresh Italian or French roast coffee. Preferably 50% or more robusta.
And, that's it.
@@LanceHedrick yup, not for everyone ..
After a lot trials, I doubted that the freshness was this issue..
Hard to find, in my taste but recently discovered portuguese roasts,, in portugal, love it
Thank you again
Very new to espresso here and getting very frustrated with this issue. First English is not my first language so I'm not 100% sure if I should describe my shot as acidic or sour but they are horrible no matter what I try. Would love to be able to get a "sweet" shot some time. I'm on my third bag of coffee already and I haven't enjoyed a single shot yet LOL. I'll try to start logging every thing I do to see if that helps.
Appreciate the theory and knowledge. One suggestion: it might help people more if you demonstrate what you’re talking about as you talk about it.
Mind blown. I've been subscribing to Verve coffee and been struggling with the sour notes (20g/30sec/40g). After watching this, I went back to my grinder, set it to finer grind (20g/60sec/38g) and it was still sour. Then I went to the opposite extreme with a courser grind (20g/23sec/41g) and it was PERFECT. Seriously guys! Literally just had to pull 2 shots to solve the problem. It's amazing how only a few seconds can completely transform the flavor. Ironically, the Verve website recommends those settings and I never even thought to look. 😖
So start watching it from 10:30 -on to jump immediately to the summary! :)
Well explained. Do you have any suggestions for Intelligentsia Black Cat Espresso? That one is really difficult to brew espresso with - always comes out sour.
Here in the UK 🇬🇧 we have the ultimate fix to sour or bitter coffee and it is so simple... Tea!
Temperature would have an impact too.. depending on roast. If puck prep is good, check temp.
New Lance Hedrick vid ? Today is a good day :D
haha thank you for the support and comment!
love the lights
From one guy to another because I know we usually don't enough compliments. The hair and moustache is looking mighty fine on you.
No opinion on the product. Probably no harm in just linking it.
Have a nice day and thanks for the coffee knowledge
haha thank you! Really appreciate it, tbh. Hope you brew something tasty!
@@LanceHedrick Thanks!
Excellent video Lance! Really nice explanation. Cheers from 🇮🇹
Lance, I love your videos. I learned so much from you already.
I thought still struggle with having a stable shot of espresso. My process:
- Niche 0 for grinding to cup
- Move coffee from cup to basket, WDC, distribute with OCD
- Tamp with Decent Tamper (the one with spring)
- Pull espresso with Sage/Breville Dual Boiler
My main problem is - 18/36 ratio takes from 28 to 35s when everything else seems to be exactly same (maybe my tamping strenght varies, but a tamper with spring should even it out). It also makes shots taste a bit different one from the other and I can't work on the perfecting it :(.
What might be the thing I'm still missing?
The other question I would like to ask is - how to learn to taste the difference between sour and acid... I think I might know it but would love to know how to train my taste and be sure which one I'm tasting?
First, ditch the ocd. wdt, tap, tamp. Second, play with the ratio. 18:36 doesn't work on most coffees. Just a vague starting point. Third, remember there is a preinfusion built in on the BDB that is not on other machines. Play with ratio more and with times (going shorter)
@@LanceHedrick which direction would you suggest trying to go? 1:3? how should I then try to time the extraction to have a good direction/starting point with experiments?
Coffe I'm currently using is a mix of Brasilia and Honduras 1330-1400 m.a.s.l. dark roasted
@@EmperorSon Try this for dark roast:
88° temperature
17 g in / 40 ml out in around 19-23 second. After that you can play with the ratio to find the perfect spot of your coffee. Remember even extraction is your goal not the ratio.
I tasted a lot of espresso’s from ‘modern’ roasters at their own cafes and they were all sour. Some more balanced than others, but all sour. I don’t like it. Balancing out sourness only works for those who like the high acidity espresso. For others, buy lower altitude arabica coffee roasted by a more traditional roaster. There is nothing wrong with that and you won’t be less of an espresso lover ❤
This!.. i was almost getting embarrassed because i like “traditional Italian” flavor profiles with a little kick of robusta, and I’m often grilled by third wave people…… almost all coffee nerd content on TH-cam is about quite acidic coffee these days, and for me that type only works in pour overs or aero press.
I agree. The problem wouldn't be there if it had not been for the stubborn insistance of putting too light roasted coffee in an espresso machine. Sometimes it tastes like lemon juice has been added. These people call it 'brightness' but I call it unbalanced. I had a Kagere espresso at Tim Wendelboe and it was so sour I struggled to finish it.
Do you have any recommendations for online orders? Every local place around me only sells modern light roast
I went to two good cafe's / roasters the other day and they pulled shots for me that were from lighter roasts and I was surprised how smooth balanced and low acidity it was, without any sugar or anything added. Some cafe's might not have their light roasts dialed in properly.
At home I don't mind a little sourness / acidity since I like to add a bit of sugar, and I like the combo of a little sweet and sour.
@@BensCoffeeRants it can be a number of things. First of all a lighter roast can be a medium roast for somebody else. For me a light espresso roast is one that is dropped during or shortly after first crack. A roast midway between first and second crack I call a medium roast but this is still light compared to roast that went to second crack. Also different people have different taste preferences. Dialing in could be issue but in my case I doubt it. It is just my disliking of acidic espresso. I cannot enjoy it nor find it interesting enough to drink anyway. But I know some people do like it. My point is that if somebody complains that espresso is sour you should first check her or his taste preference. Maybe you cannot blame a roaster for roasting sour espresso but you can blame him for advising the wrong beans for making espresso. Selecting the right beans for your taste preference is totally missing in this video, lance even suggests it doesn’t matter.
Good advice and explanations as always. I have a Breville built-in grinder with my Pro. Puck prep and a WDT tool made a huge difference.
Next on the list… grinder upgrade. I’m actually glad I went with a built in grinder. It will make me appreciate a better grinder even more.
Finally fixed my sour espresso due to my grind being too fine! Thanks!
Great vid Lance! Appreciated the sour v acidic distinction, something I definitely conflate at times. Keep the awesome content coming!
Curl game intense Lance! 🎉
I have no interest in coffee, but I subscribed to your channel because you have the best intro on TH-cam.
Thanks for the tip! I struggled with sour extractions for a month.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
☕ Understanding the extraction process: Coffee extraction involves three main phases - sour, sweet, and bitter.
🧊 Sourness indicators: Sourness in espresso can stem from underextraction, characterized by sour and watery shots, or overextraction, leading to bitterness and dryness.
📏 Fixing underextraction: If your espresso is sour and underextracted, adjust by fining the grind and allowing more contact time for better extraction.
🏋️♂️ Fixing overextraction: If your espresso is bitter and overextracted, coarse the grind to promote even water flow through the coffee puck.
🔄 Adjusting extraction time: Tailor extraction time to achieve the desired flavor profile, whether it requires lengthening or shortening the extraction process.
📐 Consistent preparation: Ensure consistent and thorough preparation methods, such as distributing grounds evenly and tamping consistently, for better extraction.
🚫 Tamp pressure myth: Tamp pressure doesn't significantly affect extraction; focus instead on grind size, extraction time, and coffee-to-water ratio.
🌟 Aim for sweetness: Apply these tips to brew sweeter espresso and improve overall coffee quality.
Made with HARPA AI
How about a video on using paper filters above and below the grinds. Does a paper filter below the grinds trap finds? What is the effect on taste? I find it necessary to grind rather fine when using a filter on the bottom of the grinds. Finally, I have a needle valve on top of my e61 brew head and a pressure gauge any hints on getting the best shot out of that setup?
With my good grinders I haven't noticed it affecting body or the amount of bitterness / fines, but because using a paper filter requires a finer grind size, it's kinda hard to compare directly with and without it. I think you might be onto something if your grinder does give a lot of fines paper filter may be even more beneficial.
Coffee flows faster with the paper filter because the fines aren't clogging the holes, instead they're captured the larger surface area of the paper filter I believe.
Wow. Awesome Soundquality! The rest is also great, as always😉
Thanks for the informative video!! I see you got your hands on the Happy Tamper and used it in the video. I finally received mine and have used it only once; still adjusting to it. So far I am happy but interested to hear your thoughts. Thank again.
Hey there, I appreciate you going into more detail about this as I'm one to struggle with this myself, and having a GCP certainly doesn't help I'd say, but adding in some examples and references from your previous videos is quite nice.
However I had a couple questions if you, or anyone else, wouldn't mind that I believe mix into this whole thing.
The first bit is roast level. I know there isn't really a thing but as a simple benchmark and my own testing, again from someone who is suffering from sourness, dark roast would taste dark and bitter to the point of not tasting sour as much. Light roast would be easier to tell from less of that strong coffee taste, but I generally found it more on the bitter side than sour side once finding a decent grind size. And medium seems to always taste sour for me, no matter how much I've changed it the shot seems to always be sour- which I found very weird.
The second thing is in the realm of puck prep, but more so the evenness of the bed. Either before or after a shot I'll notice the puck is uneven- slanted if you will. In my mind this must make a difference and something must be going wrong. The puck after extraction can seem slanted but only moist- not watery thankfully.
If you have any insight or thoughts on this and/or more I'd love to hear it. Again this is open to anyone as I really wanna fix where I'm going wrong, as I for one am to blame myself rather than my equipment first.
P.S. Love the hair
I think one reason darker roasted coffees are less sour is because they are easier to extract even if the grind, the puck prep, water pressure and temperature are a bit off. Darker roasted coffee is just more water soluble than lighter roasts allowing for more even extraction throughout the entire pull of the shot. Light roasts need to be more carefully dialed in and are less forgiving in all ways.
The unlevel bed sounds like a tamp with simply more pressure on one side of the bed. After the bed has seen water pressure that unlevel tamp may be very exaggerated. It could look level before being pressurized by 9 bars of H2O. Imagine a bed with 15 lbs on one side and 20 lbs on the other, but that appears level before you make your espresso.
I haven't had an issue with sour tasting coffee from all the coffee that I have bought up until now. Great streak of luck comes to an end one might say. 😅 I bought 2 bags from Aldi which are about 2/3 months old and man, whatever I've tried it is so acidic tasting. I obviously won't be buying them again but I want to at least finish the remainder in a way that doesn't taste bad. So it seems as though I'm not getting enough yield. I tried going fine and course but no luck. I'll try increasing the yield to 2.5x and see if that eliminates the sourness.
Clearer sound quality. Nice.🙂👍🏻
I wish I could give this video a hug!
"There's no such thing as a catch-all in espresso because it is annoying."
Now THAT is what I need on a t-shirt.
lmaoo these videos are hilarious and insightful, keep it up bruddahh!
This was such a helpful video, you have no idea. Thank you!
Nicely done! Great explanation. Espresso brewing is not a simple exercise. From a practical standpoint though, to make adjustments, should i change more than one variable at a time?
I've had to learn this the long way. Changing one variable at a time in small increments is by far the best. Not only so you can learn what each is doing to the flavor profile, but sometimes only that one change makes the entire shot work.
Love your personality! Thanks for the vid!
bro litreally , you cleared all my doubts. SUBSCRIBED
I don't know what sour means. I only taste really bitter coffee, so does that mean sour? Or, is that acidic? Either way, when I use a medium roast EXPENSIVE coffee, it tastes bitter to me. Help me Lance! FYI, I have a good grinder - Baratza ESP, but lousy machine. I don't want to upgrade the machine until I understand more of this process, but should I?