Peter Elliott, a close fourth in the 800 and an Olympic silver here and all while holding down a full time job with British steel...a true tough of the track
I don't think he would have been any better or worse being a full time athlete. They gave him loads of time off and he took it. If he had been another type of athlete it would have been harder. Got a lot of stick for not being Coe. Mostly by people who have never run track.
Shame we never saw Cram get the 1500m OIympic gold his talent deserved. Too young in 80, coming off injury in 84 and finished as a real challenger by 88. Still what a fabulous career he had and what a time it was to be a British Athletics fan! Cram's career has an enormous "if only" attached to it. He was diagnosed with compartment syndrome which impacted his training severely from 1983 onwards and led to a number of his injuries. For some reason (risk perhaps?) his doctors never recommended surgery to resolve the issue. Cram had the surgeries after he retired and he said they were transformational and wished he had done the procedure during his career instead.
Elliott was never blessed with the natural ability of Ovett, Coe and Cram, but by God he was a battler! Imagine it now: a world class 1500m/miler working as a joiner and running in his spare time....
We were blessed to have such talented middle distance male runners in Britain in the 70/80’s. A joy to watch. We all had our favourites but we should appreciate them for what they were, world class!
Between 1977 and 1990 Britain won 12 gold medals at 1500m across the Olympics, World Cup, World Championship, European Championship & Commonwealth Games. These were shared between Coe, Ovett, Cram, Moorcroft & Elliott. You will never again get 5 milers like that at the same time in these islands. Rejoice that you were alive at the time. 1977 World Cup - Ovett, 1978 Commonwealth Games - Moorcroft, 1978 European Championship - Ovett, 1980 Olympics - Coe, 1981 World Cup - Ovett, 1982 European Championship - Cram, 1982 Commonwealth Games - Cram, 1983 World Championship - Cram, 1984 Olympics - Coe, 1986 Commonwealth Games - Cram, 1986 European Championship - Cram, 1990 Commonwealth Games - Elliott.
@@gunternetzer9621 Add to those the medals we won at 800m also. I wish we could have those days again, although the current GB middle distance runners aren’t too bad.
Peter Elliott...up at 5am to train...back to work in sheffield at 7:30am finishes work...back to train...never got the backing that cram, coe and ovett got. A bit like cathy cooke, unsung heroes of british athletics from the golden age
Tactically, one of the Greatest Olympic Finals of all time. Right up there with Kip Keino in the 1500 metres in 1968 at Mexico City and John Ngugi in the 5000 metres at these Olympics. The Kenyans know how to Race and can adjust tactics according to the situation. They have minds like a steel trap!
Coe wasn't out of shape in 88. He under-performed at the Trials because he was suffering from bronchitis but was forced to run. Being ill doesn't mean out of shape. He'd already beaten Ereng (who went on to win the 800 title) twice in the summer of 88 (the only person to do so)& ran 1:43 two weeks after the trials when not fully recovered. No one runs 1:43 "out of shape". This was faster than Elliott ran all season and was more than a month before the Games. He also beat Crabb after the trials.
Everytime I revisit this feed I look at the comments. Rono and the Cheriyouts were legit. I was in college with them. Good humble guys. They trained smart. And ran fast... fast... most of the time.
I graduated from the Mount in 1975. I was serving onboard the USS Midway which was providing support operations for the Seoul Olympics. I was able to witness this event (I made a special trip up to Seoul as the ship was in Port Pusan). I was fortunate enough to greet Coaches Deegan and Zarnowski and these Mountaineers later that afternoon in the Olympic Village! A very memorable day.
Peter's "hero"-so to speak-was/is Jim Ryun.Five years ago,I went onto Ryun's website to give him Peter's telephone number for the New Balance store in which Peter works.I've been buying shoes at that store in Hasbrouck Heights,NJ for years.
You are awesome Peter Rono! You got the famous Rono name! Henry! I me Henry at the Sunkist meet. He was eating an orange after running 8:20 indoor two mile!!! I will never forget it,it was so awesome!
Coe's basic speed was faster, yes, but sport is not run on paper. Also, Coe lost too many championship 800m without asking a few more questions about him. He only won the Euro 86 because Cram had clearly peaked in the Commonwealths a few weeks before. Also, Ovett was vastly underrated as an 800m runner. If you lived through those Moscow days you will know Ovett was treated like a dog by the media. Coe had the most favourable coverage ever seen. I am dreading this film about them
The selection policy in Britain was wrong, Coe should have been selected on early season form. 3 weeks after the trials he ran a sub 1m 44s 800m and a 3m 35s 1500m to prove he would have been ready. Elliott, Cram & Coe should have been selected in the 1500m.
Great race this. Peter Rono's last lap time is key. 52.93 seconds. Any athlete running that time is going to win, especially if they're given a 1-2 metre head start, as he was. But the really interesting thing is, if you look at him carefully, is he was looking around - he clearly had a lot in reserve and could have gone even faster if he needed to. That's why he won. He did just enough to win it by a safe and clear margin.
Your comments about age are trivial. Ovett was always more developed& precocious than Coe. He won a Euro silver at 800 in 74 at 18. Big things were expected of him in Montreal & he didn't run well because it was a unique & pressurized experience for him. Coe was Euro indoor 800 champ at 20, but the pressure on him to produce the goods (2 golds) at his first Olympics (at 23) were more immense than those Ovett had to handle. And yes if Ovett had run his normal race in 83 he would have won.
I am a big Ovett fan also. There were some tabloid journalists who took a dislike to him, mainly due to his refusal to give interviews. He was arrogant on the track also. I would say that it's the complete opposite to what you suggest. Ovett is the one who is well liked by the public and it's Coe that is unfairly derided and criticised, usually along class lines, from uninformed people buying into the myth that he was priviledged. I bet you don't consider them "hateful people"?
priviledged or privileged? I certainly preferred Ovett to Coe, as a man. Think for the latter running was a means to an end & he's certainly done well for himself. Whether the public persona is anything like the private, I can't say.
And since when are these people in the media my friends? I don't know David Miller. Yes, I've read his books, and I have read many other books/articles, but am experienced and confident enough to base any opinions on my own assessments. Your last line about class is rather telling. When you start bringing that into an argument about athletics, then I'm afraid respect starts to waver.
Both in fact had a better build up to LA than Coe. Ovett ran 3 international 800s & 4 international 1500s in the 2 months leading up to the Games; that's 7 races. Cram had 3 international outings at 800, 3 at 1000m & 1 over 1500m. That's also 7 races. Coe had 1 800m race in Oslo (where he said he was only 80-85% fit) 2 1500s in the AAAs and a solo slow mile at Haringey where he won by 10secs. That's 4 races. Therefore he had far fewer races at international level than either Steve.
Yes, Coe was 100% fit in the Moscow 800m final, but lost it because he ran a diabolical tactical race. He was still the fastest over the last lap by quite some margin, just as Ovett was 100% fit in the 83 World 1500 final where he finished 4th! He was the fastest over the last lap there too, but ran a dreadful race. People don't go on "crucifying" Ovett for coming 4th when he was 100% in the same way they did Coe, who at least got the silver.
According to Ovett he was not fully fit for the World Championships in 1983...and I believe him; when he was at his best he did not try to conserve energy by running just to qualify in heats/semis. IMHO he was short of both fitness (especially speed) and confidence.
This was considered a failure in UK athletics at the time, but you don't get people going on about that do you? As for 84, Coe had stated before the Games (Oslo) that he was only "85% fit", having come back from serious illness and only starting training in the January. He had to use the rounds of the 800 & 1500 to bring himself to a peak for the 15 final. The 800 was probably the most intense Championship event ever, and it came about a week too early for him.
In probably every other major championship final run in the 70's & 80's, Coe's efforts in the LA 800 would have been enough to win gold. The reason Coe is considered one of the greatest of all time at 800 is the fact he held the WR for longer than any other athlete in the modern era (18 years) and had the greatest margin in time over the next best ever (1.71 secs) since WW2. Not to mention he accrued more world ranking points on the T&FNews system than any other runner before him.
I fully agree Coe would have won this.What a joke the U.K selectors are to deny Coe even an attempt to defend his title.Also Elliott was magnificent to get the silver.
@@archiewoosung5062 correct. Should do what the Americans do all the time. First three go if they have the qualifying times. Takes out all the politics.
I never said it was better than what Ovett did at 18, I merely answered your question of "What was Coe doing at 20?" But to insinuate that a front running winning effort of 1:46.5 (only 0.1 outside the then indoor WR) is not "real running" is somewhat lame. No, its not as important as outdoor champs, but it contradicts the myth pedalled by many that Coe came from nowhere in 79.
Cram isn't a sprint finisher. Should have tried to hit the front. He was catching in the final straight and might have stayed ahead from the front. Peter Elliot was brilliant. Rono ran a great race.
Elliot ran the best race he could. Cram did not. Rono ran a strange race and yet still won. Was running wide and changing pace quickly. Not text book at all.
Another race when it was 'slow' - in fact it wasn't that slow - was the 5000m Commonwealth of 13-24 in 86. Again it was mentioned as a stick to beat him with. 3 years earlier who said Coughlans world time was slow - actually a dawdle. And when Farrah won in 13-41 in summer where was Foster and Cram with their lets make it a true run race - can anybody explain what a true run race is in a championship as I am dying to know
He had to use the 800 heats & final to get him race ready for retaining his 1500m title. He also had the misfortune of coming up against a man who put together the greatest series of championship 800m runs ever. Cruz on that day would have beaten anything that Ovett or Cram ever produced at 800m. Indeed, his 25.2 last 200m in a 1:43.0 is better than anything Kipketer or Rudisha have produced in subsequent years in Championship races.
@martynhanson You could say the same about 83. If Coe hadn't been ill in the 82 Europeans and for practically all of 83, he would have won 800 gold in 82 and could have done the World Champs double in 83. Ovett was fully fit in Helsinki 83 and ran a dreadful race. Coe had more than his fair share of illness ruining gold medal chances. The Olympics are still the pinnacle however, and Hemery is in a great position to say such things having won an Olympic gold himself.
Are you serious on a cinder track in 1960 herb elliot ran 3:35.6 after taking lead after passing 800m around 1:57 this if you allow for synthetic track advantage is at least comparable to 1988 olympics won in 3:35.96 800m passed in 2:00. runners aren't getting much better just tracks and opportunity
I suspect the runners are getting better and that's why the Europeans aren't on top any more. Think Mo Farah has a better time of 1500m than Cram, Coe & Ovett but there's no way he could win an Olympic medal at the distance.
@@forest69ist advantage depends on running style. Also not all tracks are the same. Synthetic tracks give bounce and when when your style is bounce and knee lift the advantage is greater. Shuffling style runners get less of an advantage, indeed it is harder to change gears. I would have rather run of dirt personally. The same for everyone and get a better grip for your kick.
@@forest69ist re Ryun. Think he could have gone sub 3.30 with today's tech and science. And I don't mean cheating. However you don't know how much he wanted to get in to hurt locker. And it would really hurt.
Re Ryun hurt locker. He ran sub 4 mile in high school beat Snell in 1965, i am sure he could produce better results in his mid 20s with financial support and pacers these days.
There was an opportunity for Elliot and Cram to take lead after the 2 lap mark and perhaps if they had the would have fought for Gold and Silver between them. They were both finishing fastest in the home straight but they left it too late. I think Cram's confidence was shot at this point. He won a big race earlier in the summer (including beating Abdi Bile) by coming from behind on the home straight but he shouldn't have been leaving it so late. The defeat by Abascal in 1987 left Cram scared to take it out from 600m like he used to win races in his pomp. Still, not a bad achievement considering they were both injured and both had unwisely chosen to compete in the 800m. If anyone thinks a fit Coe, Cram, and Elliot wouldn't have split the medals between them here you only have to consider that Steve Scott well past his best finished 5th and not too far off the pace (a prime Scott finished 10th in the Los Angeles final).
@@Sean-zg4iy answer, they weren’t. The selectors proved their massive incompetence again a decade later when not selecting Roger Black for the 98 Europeans in Budapest.
@@garetht9666 I always feel sorry for the East German's because they are put under a shadow of doping. In reality there was nothing they (middle distance runners) could take which could improve their performance at the time. They couldn't take stimulants but that would be in their urine and the synthetics were for the future. Blood doping is a possibility and things like sleeping oxygen test is not (and has never been) illegal. The East German machine was full of crooks and cheats but no athlete was ever caught.
@@peterh1353 Lol, the East Germans were blood doping, and that would have improved their performances in both the 800 and 1500m, as likely shown by Beyer in 78 and Straub in 80. It's a documented, proven in a court of law fact that they were pumping 13 year old girls with steroids. But you think they wouldn't have been been blood doping their middle-distance runners?
Peter Rono did what few other runners can do in a major championships 1,500-metre final: lead the race from 700 metres and still win, without a dramatic and explosive final kick. Elliott, Herold and Cram must have regretted not quite having had the speed to outrun Rono on that day. Rono, by the way, never won an Olympic or a World Championships medal after 1988.
Lol! You know little about this period. Coe had already beaten Ereng, the 800m champion at these Games, twice in the months before Seoul. The closing splits here were far inferior to Coe's corresponding splits in LA. And Coe beat both Rono and Herold the following season. Cram was dismal in this race. If he hadn't been greedy in trying to run the 800 as well (where he wasn't even good enough to get to the final), then maybe he'd have won a medal in the 15.
@deano27671 Don't think Ovett was 100% fit before the Worlds having missed most of 82 injured. He was getting there but had not run fast times prior to the games and although doing 3:30 couple of weeks later don't think he was confident going into the race. His finish was never the same after that injury as well. I think Coe would have won in 88 as he had regained fitness by the time of the games. AB the only guy who could have beat him was missing as well.
Was the best in the world at his best and world champion. Better career than Rono. Always thought he was weak psychology - when he was beaten he quits. Comes from doing TV ads and too much attention too young. Got no medal here and he can't have been the 4th best athlete.
You really are ignorant aren't you! Blood doping was banned after Seb Coe himself (in conjunction with Lord Moynihan) had carried out the original report on blood doping when Vice president of the Sports' Council. He was the one who actively sought it to be passed as statute by the IAAF. This happened in 85 and Coe ran his fastest ever 1500 (3:29) at the end of the following season, not to mention winning the 800 European.
Often a small C Conservative runner. Rono caught them all out. I bet if you ask any of the contenders what they knew about him they would shrug their shoulders. Front runners rarely win. They tend to peak before the line. Rono sprinted in two bursts. Often a clever ploy at all levels. Let them come close and go again. Good to see you fit and well Charlie. Have you had your nose fixed yet?
@martynhanson Coe still won 2 consecutive Olympic silvers, (not to mention a host of other gold, silver and bronze medals over 800m from other major races/championships over a long period), which is a better effort than Cram & Ovett put together over their favoured 1500m in the Olympic arena. Since WW2, only Snell and Cruz have a better record at the Olympics over 800m. His is better than Kipketer's.
they didn't want to select him 84 either in 89 i think he ran 3:29.77 the has been. if better competition dragged him through at his peak a 3:28 was in the offing. and i'm not his greatest fan just done thorough research
@martynhanson Coe With his pure basic speed and 1500m endurance, Coe should have won almost every 800m final he ever ran. I will contend,however, that in championship races he used way too much energy to be up front in every race. Amazingly, someone with so much speed trusted it so little and spent to much energy jostling with others early on, leaving little left for the finish.
I really never picked up on any negative vibe from the commentators when Ovett won the Commonwealth! I think you're reading things that aren't there. In fact, they sounded really pleased that he had won. It's a shame he went down with a virus in the Europeans as I feel he would have beaten Buckner, and in so doing would have run sub 13:10. I get where you're coming from with Foster & Cram's hyperbole over Farah this summer. Foster in particular really is a dreadful sycophant.
Part of team Farrah. Went to his wedding. Shouldn't have done that, need to be objective and not be a cheerleader. Mind you brown nosing has been Foster's game. Wealthy man despite being a respectable, but hardly world beating, athlete.
@@SirPeter6464 I must defend Brendan here. If you look at his record the Geordie Boy was world class at four different disciplines, 1500/3000/5000 and 10000m, which is why he could commentate with such authority.
@@gunternetzer9621 He was there and competitive. I never suggested anything else. Used it to get ahead in life in a way you couldn't get away with in the USA. Rather like Henry Cooper.
last 700m within a tenth of a second of same time in 1984 and 1988 1:35.7 coe ran 3.5 sec quicker to 800m so should have been more lactated yet still runs last 700m same pace as rono so coe was as good as rono. And coe finished flying could have went a second quicker if he had to kick sooner, coe was as good as many kenyans except noah nyeng. Coe ran great times with ineffective pacemakers and had officialdom making him run rubbish english meets instead of chasing records when he was in form
Don't agree with all you say. Ran for clubs and his county. His choice alone. Plenty of people beat Coe. He spread a lot of happiness around. Not many people beat Ovett, certainly not between world records.
Nobody had anything at the end. Rono winning from the front and fair play to him. Timid running from the others. Cram knew - then - he would never be Olympic champion and maybe the best never to be that. Explains his expression.
Time limit. And there is actually no proof he doped. He was part of their sports medicine project. But they all were. Although it is a long discussion there are some athletes who cannot improve by doping. Steroids make people heavier and actually slower in middle distance events. Stimulants have to be in your blood stream. Remember this is before EPO and the like.
Coe - still the best package - fuck everyone has raced Coe - he finished 25th in the nth midland league - I was in the 100ths - stop saying you raced him - there is being in a race and racing
I think you're being over sensitive. I remember when Coe won the 800 in Stuttgart in 86, Coleman said, "The time (1:44.5) doesn't matter a bit,..." implying it was slow. I had no sense at all of the commentators being biased against Ovett at the time or looking back. He hasn't been forgotten by those interested in the sport, but he doesn't do himself any favours living in Oz and refusing most interviews, tv appearances in this country.
I actually think Ovett was a bit of a child back then. You are carrying a sport and have to do a bit of PR for it. Typical never had a real job merchant. More rounded now. Didn't like the idea of a movie on his rivalry between Coe and refused cooperation.
Rono beat who he had to beat on the day. Fact. But Elliot due to 800m exertions and Cram were not at optimum fitness IMO. They may not have beaten them had they been mind. I think Coe would have won this race though although I don't think (I have disagreed with Deano on this b4) he would have won 800m. )t would have been the perfect prep. Elliot was fantastic he as was only semi pro whereas the other UK Golden Era were all full time.
What? I didn't side step his medal at 18 at all! I'm the one who mentioned it! I have always believed Ovett to have been better at an earlier age than Coe, but that doesn't mean he was better. It just means he developed at a quicker rate, earlier. At 18 Coe was still a kid, while Ovett already looked like a man. You also jump to conclusions over Coe's indoor gold.
I thought Peter Coe deliberately brought Seb on slowly, so he didn't mature too soon...his whole career was planned like a business. Brilliant athlete but something left me cold.
Nonsense. He lost the 800 in Moscow because he chose to run about 8m further than Ovett did. Yes he was in top form, but he didn't give himself a chance. Coe finished faster than Ovett over last 100 & 200 despite running further. It was his first Olympics and the pressure got to him in that 1st race. He did a darn sight better than Ovett did in his first Olympics in 76 (5th and failing to get to the final in the 15).
Comparing Coe's first Olympics to Ovett's is hardly fair! The two men are of a simlar age so comparing their results in '76 would be fairer. Ovett was only 5th in the 800...where was Coe?
Even a 3/4 fit Seb Coe could have won this in 3.35 slowing up at the end. The decision to not allow a 2 time Olympic 1500 m Gold medallist the opportunity to represent his country here is one of the worst ever made. His amazing service to Great Britain had earned him that opportunity imo!!!
Neutral Observer hindsight is so easy. Coe did not even qualify for the final of the 1500 metres trials. The selectors decision to om mitt Coe was understandable in my opinion. They received of lot of flak for not doing so but they were in a no-win situation. I'm sure had Coe shown anything like his true form in the trials he would have been selected.
@@anthonyquinn6009 We all know that. Still no excuse imo. Coe was the one with the best chance of improving enough to win in the time between the trials and the Olympic 1500 metre final. Remember he won in 1984 having lost most of 1982 and 1983 through far worse health problems. Surely to god an athlete who has won the event twice before has earned enough cache to be allowed a pass? It's not like we are the USA, China or Russia. You might have a point if the 2 athletes we did select finished with gold and silver. We will never know what would have happened if Coe had been selected but I will always believe that he should have been selected!
@@bernardfox9078 Totally agree, I am still angry about that decision to this day. Coe would have had a good chance of winning this. He ran faster than the winner in a practice race around the same time as this and was in good form just after the trials. Also, the IOC gave him a wild card into it and GB athletics still wouldn’t send him, shameful decision and they got what they deserved ,no gold medal.
@@anthonyquinn6009 You take your best runners to the Olympics and Coe was one of the best 1500m runners in the world, still at that point. I think the selectors were unprofessional - this is business not Chariots of Fire.
@RawMarketingSolution Bullshit! Coe would've had his arse handed to him, no doubt whatsoever. He wasn't in shape and, even if selected, wouldn't have been up to the challenge.
re 84 final - if Coe had been carted off stricken on a stretcher and a truly fit Ovett would have won then history could easily have been written differently. you can't win if you are ill. this London olympic thing is driving me nuts. Putting everything on this. Take Farah. If a month before the games he gets injured what then? As David Hemery said - to put everything on one day in 4 years in the future is ridiculous. don't think the athletes of today have worked this one out yet
Nobody thinks Rono is better than Cram. But got an Olympic title and Cram hasn't. That hurts him. However that is for the general public who need easy references. Cram of 85 driving out at the Bell in a 1500m was - for me - the ultimate. Nobody in the history of running could have got passed him. Nobody.
@@SirPeter6464 I think a lot of people have got their moment for 1500m runners. Elliott in Rome 1962 and Ovett in World Cup 1977 and the list could go on and on. Actually my post was nothing to do with Rono as he didn't show he was a great runner. So he was never in the debate. I was making the point that Ovett was edged out of history in that 84 final and nobody stopped to think what would have happened if Coe would have been in that position Ovett was in. Also, Cram was not in shape that 84 season. He had trodden on a coke tin and had injury problems early in the season. It's obvious Cram was not in top shape in those games.
Ovett fans would rather remember him for his wins against lesser fields and not dwell on his Olympic bronze & World 4th. Seems like double standards to me! As for the LA 800m, Coe's build up was hardly problem free and he certainly wasn't as race fit as most of the other entrants at the beginning of the 800m event. All this bull***t about Cram not being fit before the Games and "if Ovett hadn't been ill", doesn't stand up to much scrutiny.
@@SirPeter6464 The myth making machine didn't set all those records. Yes, Coe ran a poor race in the trials and didn't qualify. And Rono ran a great race to get gold. But you don't think that Coe couldn't have kicked off a 2:43 1100 meters? He ran a 1:43 800m after the Olympics.
5:16 "What a run by yet another Kenyan. They really find him and this is a new one as well.Peter Rono a famous name, 21 years old has come through to take Olympic gold on his first major international appearance. Cram just hadn"t got the legs, but it matters most of all. A bold piece of front running."
Winning by doping is sheer duping Later, health will not be truly coping Body won't be peacefully sleeping Worst rewards, one will be reaping Winning in a normal way is pretty Medal through doping is petty True success alone is mighty That must be sports man's duty.
No, it's a time and a place at that time. You and others say Coes is greatest 800m runner ever but he was 100% at time of both his 800m Olympic finals but was trounced in both for gold By the way, Ovett was not 100% at time of 83 world champs and even though he ran fastest last lap it was clear Cram had something in hand and I say that as Ovett fan
Rono ran hard. Cram's injury in the Rieti 1k cost him here... despite his ferocious last 30m when he decided, suddenly, that he could still win despite all the problems. But, then, the travesty of the 1988 UK OG selection! It wasn't Peter Elliott who was the problem. The selections should have been: Coe, Elliott, Cram for both 800 and 1500. McKean in the 800 was a total joke, worst championship runner of the era. Crabb in the 15 was an OK runner, but not in the class of the big 3.
Did the selectors have a choice? Cram was pre-selected & the first 2 in the trials were to join him...Cram's last championship medal was in '86, I think...too many injuries subsequently
It was in Rieti in '86 that he ran that 3.29. Sure, he ran 1.43/3.35 in '88, but to have him run in Seoul, they would've had to leave out Tom McKean (Euro Silver winner), or the World Silver Medallist Peter Elliott, or The Commonwealth Champion Steve Cram in the 800. In the 1500, they would've had to leave out 3.33 runner Steve Crabb. Crabb earned his placethrough the trial and it would've been unfair that an out of shape and unproven Coe (even if he was the reigning champ) be given preference.
Coe earned that much. He should have been selected and he would probably have won gold easing up at the finish in 3.35. Disgraceful decision that the double Olympic Gold Medalist for GB in the 1500 wasn't allowed to go as he was coming back from injury. Seriously what did Steve Crabb do with his opportunity?
THE 1988 WAS THE START OF THE DEMISE OF BRITISH ENTITLEMENT IN SPORTS...HAVE YOU EVER HEARD THEM CROWN THEIR SPORTS FIGURES AS LORDS AND SIRS IN RECENT MEMORY LIKE THEY USED TO.......LATEST IN THE 80'S ?
Marcus O'Sullivan, great runner, future world indoor champion, but that's a shocker of a haircut (0:18). Still, at least he's not dressed like Steve Scott!
![[MPD직캠] 베이비몬스터 직캠 8K 'LIKE THAT' (BABYMONSTER FanCam) | @MCOUNTDOWN_2024.6.13](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8qa-nm9bCLs/mqdefault.jpg)
![Yoshi Rinrada - 'มาทำไม' [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/r41xbfRLkLs/mqdefault.jpg)
Peter Elliott, a close fourth in the 800 and an Olympic silver here and all while holding down a full time job with British steel...a true tough of the track
I don't think he would have been any better or worse being a full time athlete. They gave him loads of time off and he took it. If he had been another type of athlete it would have been harder. Got a lot of stick for not being Coe. Mostly by people who have never run track.
Elliot was so underrated at the time but we’d kill for a guy as good as him today. Let’s hope that prodigy Max Burgin is going to be that guy.
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@@SirPeter6464 Still a working class hero and good for British Steel
He could run sub 4 after a fish and chip supper !
Shame we never saw Cram get the 1500m OIympic gold his talent deserved. Too young in 80, coming off injury in 84 and finished as a real challenger by 88. Still what a fabulous career he had and what a time it was to be a British Athletics fan!
Cram's career has an enormous "if only" attached to it. He was diagnosed with compartment syndrome which impacted his training severely from 1983 onwards and led to a number of his injuries. For some reason (risk perhaps?) his doctors never recommended surgery to resolve the issue. Cram had the surgeries after he retired and he said they were transformational and wished he had done the procedure during his career instead.
Peter Rono ran the smartest race. I am a proud Kenyan watching from Nairobi, Kenya.
Elliott was never blessed with the natural ability of Ovett, Coe and Cram, but by God he was a battler! Imagine it now: a world class 1500m/miler working as a joiner and running in his spare time....
We were blessed to have such talented middle distance male runners in Britain in the 70/80’s. A joy to watch. We all had our favourites but we should appreciate them for what they were, world class!
Hi Matt,
Britain also had some class sprinters as well, male and female...
Christie being the exception ;)
Between 1977 and 1990 Britain won 12 gold medals at 1500m across the Olympics, World Cup, World Championship, European Championship & Commonwealth Games. These were shared between Coe, Ovett, Cram, Moorcroft & Elliott. You will never again get 5 milers like that at the same time in these islands. Rejoice that you were alive at the time.
1977 World Cup - Ovett, 1978 Commonwealth Games - Moorcroft, 1978 European Championship - Ovett, 1980 Olympics - Coe, 1981 World Cup - Ovett, 1982 European Championship - Cram, 1982 Commonwealth Games - Cram, 1983 World Championship - Cram, 1984 Olympics - Coe, 1986 Commonwealth Games - Cram, 1986 European Championship - Cram, 1990 Commonwealth Games - Elliott.
@@gunternetzer9621 Add to those the medals we won at 800m also. I wish we could have those days again, although the current GB middle distance runners aren’t too bad.
I could listen to David Coleman all day.
Just put on loop.
Peter Elliott was the absolute epitome of decency.
Thanks for this video! Jeff Atkinson is my cross country coach this year so I feel very honored. :D
Peter Elliott...up at 5am to train...back to work in sheffield at 7:30am finishes work...back to train...never got the backing that cram, coe and ovett got. A bit like cathy cooke, unsung heroes of british athletics from the golden age
Tactically, one of the Greatest Olympic Finals of all time. Right up there with Kip Keino in the 1500 metres in 1968 at Mexico City and John Ngugi in the 5000 metres at these Olympics. The Kenyans know how to Race and can adjust tactics according to the situation. They have minds like a steel trap!
Beautiful race to Peter Rono
Thanks for posting this been looking for it for ages.
Coe wasn't out of shape in 88. He under-performed at the Trials because he was suffering from bronchitis but was forced to run. Being ill doesn't mean out of shape. He'd already beaten Ereng (who went on to win the 800 title) twice in the summer of 88 (the only person to do so)& ran 1:43 two weeks after the trials when not fully recovered. No one runs 1:43 "out of shape". This was faster than Elliott ran all season and was more than a month before the Games. He also beat Crabb after the trials.
Everytime I revisit this feed I look at the comments. Rono and the Cheriyouts were legit. I was in college with them. Good humble guys. They trained smart. And ran fast... fast... most of the time.
I graduated from the Mount in 1975. I was serving onboard the USS Midway which was providing support operations for the Seoul Olympics. I was able to witness this event (I made a special trip up to Seoul as the ship was in Port Pusan). I was fortunate enough to greet Coaches Deegan and Zarnowski and these Mountaineers later that afternoon in the Olympic Village! A very memorable day.
Which college
@@Nescit_Occasumoutstanding
@danflacus6719 Mt. St. Mary's university in Emmitsburg Maryland. A very small private college.
Peter's "hero"-so to speak-was/is Jim Ryun.Five years ago,I went onto Ryun's website to give him Peter's telephone number for the New Balance store in which Peter works.I've been buying shoes at that store in Hasbrouck Heights,NJ for years.
You are awesome Peter Rono! You got the famous Rono name! Henry! I me Henry at the Sunkist meet. He was eating an orange after running 8:20 indoor two mile!!! I will never forget it,it was so awesome!
Coe's basic speed was faster, yes, but sport is not run on paper. Also, Coe lost too many championship 800m without asking a few more questions about him. He only won the Euro 86 because Cram had clearly peaked in the Commonwealths a few weeks before.
Also, Ovett was vastly underrated as an 800m runner. If you lived through those Moscow days you will know Ovett was treated like a dog by the media. Coe had the most favourable coverage ever seen. I am dreading this film about them
Who cares how he was treated by the media, he didn’t.
26 second last 200 is just ridiculous.
Peter Rono what a race
The selection policy in Britain was wrong, Coe should have been selected on early season form. 3 weeks after the trials he ran a sub 1m 44s 800m and a 3m 35s 1500m to prove he would have been ready. Elliott, Cram & Coe should have been selected in the 1500m.
Wow, a 21 year old out smarted Steve Scott and Steve Cram! That was not supposed to happen, but Rono had the best race strategy, and kick of course.
Love Scott. Always tried and always believed. Probably the most active middle distance runner ever. Never stopped.
Cram was no longer the force he had been a few years earlier
Scott was well past his best and Cram was not the same athlete of 85 and 86. He had two seasons plagued by injury and illness
Great race this. Peter Rono's last lap time is key. 52.93 seconds. Any athlete running that time is going to win, especially if they're given a 1-2 metre head start, as he was. But the really interesting thing is, if you look at him carefully, is he was looking around - he clearly had a lot in reserve and could have gone even faster if he needed to. That's why he won. He did just enough to win it by a safe and clear margin.
Your comments about age are trivial. Ovett was always more developed& precocious than Coe. He won a Euro silver at 800 in 74 at 18. Big things were expected of him in Montreal & he didn't run well because it was a unique & pressurized experience for him. Coe was Euro indoor 800 champ at 20, but the pressure on him to produce the goods (2 golds) at his first Olympics (at 23) were more immense than those Ovett had to handle. And yes if Ovett had run his normal race in 83 he would have won.
I am a big Ovett fan also. There were some tabloid journalists who took a dislike to him, mainly due to his refusal to give interviews. He was arrogant on the track also. I would say that it's the complete opposite to what you suggest. Ovett is the one who is well liked by the public and it's Coe that is unfairly derided and criticised, usually along class lines, from uninformed people buying into the myth that he was priviledged. I bet you don't consider them "hateful people"?
priviledged or privileged? I certainly preferred Ovett to Coe, as a man. Think for the latter running was a means to an end & he's certainly done well for himself. Whether the public persona is anything like the private, I can't say.
And since when are these people in the media my friends? I don't know David Miller. Yes, I've read his books, and I have read many other books/articles, but am experienced and confident enough to base any opinions on my own assessments. Your last line about class is rather telling. When you start bringing that into an argument about athletics, then I'm afraid respect starts to waver.
Both in fact had a better build up to LA than Coe. Ovett ran 3 international 800s & 4 international 1500s in the 2 months leading up to the Games; that's 7 races. Cram had 3 international outings at 800, 3 at 1000m & 1 over 1500m. That's also 7 races. Coe had 1 800m race in Oslo (where he said he was only 80-85% fit) 2 1500s in the AAAs and a solo slow mile at Haringey where he won by 10secs. That's 4 races. Therefore he had far fewer races at international level than either Steve.
Yes, Coe was 100% fit in the Moscow 800m final, but lost it because he ran a diabolical tactical race. He was still the fastest over the last lap by quite some margin, just as Ovett was 100% fit in the 83 World 1500 final where he finished 4th! He was the fastest over the last lap there too, but ran a dreadful race. People don't go on "crucifying" Ovett for coming 4th when he was 100% in the same way they did Coe, who at least got the silver.
According to Ovett he was not fully fit for the World Championships in 1983...and I believe him; when he was at his best he did not try to conserve energy by running just to qualify in heats/semis. IMHO he was short of both fitness (especially speed) and confidence.
Ovett was as good as Coe in every way .
@@richybatty234Not in the 1500m as the record. Coe 1500m, Ovett 800m in general.
Their best races were Coe 1500m and Ovett 800m. Of course tactically it doesn’t work out for either sometimes.
I still can't believe Peter Rono this race. I know Marcus O' Sullivan. I ran against Rono few times.
This was considered a failure in UK athletics at the time, but you don't get people going on about that do you? As for 84, Coe had stated before the Games (Oslo) that he was only "85% fit", having come back from serious illness and only starting training in the January. He had to use the rounds of the 800 & 1500 to bring himself to a peak for the 15 final. The 800 was probably the most intense Championship event ever, and it came about a week too early for him.
deano27671 This race was a failure for uk athletics , certainly turned me off the sport at the time and proably others too
This man from Kenya Peter Rono is indeed a hero, Cheers Peter Rono 668.
In probably every other major championship final run in the 70's & 80's, Coe's efforts in the LA 800 would have been enough to win gold. The reason Coe is considered one of the greatest of all time at 800 is the fact he held the WR for longer than any other athlete in the modern era (18 years) and had the greatest margin in time over the next best ever (1.71 secs) since WW2. Not to mention he accrued more world ranking points on the T&FNews system than any other runner before him.
deano27671 thats like saying osagie would of won gold you cant compare him with coe though
Fantastic race!!
I fully agree Coe would have won this.What a joke the U.K selectors are to deny Coe even an attempt to defend his title.Also Elliott was magnificent to get the silver.
Did they have a choice? Think Cram was pre-selected & the first 2 in the trials were to join him...
@@archiewoosung5062 correct. Should do what the Americans do all the time. First three go if they have the qualifying times. Takes out all the politics.
@@SirPeter6464 The Americans have a much bigger pool to pick from. How often do we get an athlete of Coe's class come along ? He should have gone.
Cram and Elliott would have been better off concentrating on the 1500m and dropping the 800 and Coe should have been picked.
..yet another Kenyan...and he's a new one as well
Congratulations team KENYA🎉😂❤
Jeff Atkinson is now my HS XC coach
Don't listen to him.
I never said it was better than what Ovett did at 18, I merely answered your question of "What was Coe doing at 20?" But to insinuate that a front running winning effort of 1:46.5 (only 0.1 outside the then indoor WR) is not "real running" is somewhat lame. No, its not as important as outdoor champs, but it contradicts the myth pedalled by many that Coe came from nowhere in 79.
Cram isn't a sprint finisher. Should have tried to hit the front. He was catching in the final straight and might have stayed ahead from the front. Peter Elliot was brilliant. Rono ran a great race.
Elliot ran the best race he could. Cram did not. Rono ran a strange race and yet still won. Was running wide and changing pace quickly. Not text book at all.
Cram lost the speed he had around ‘85 where he’d kick from a long way out.
Another race when it was 'slow' - in fact it wasn't that slow - was the 5000m Commonwealth of 13-24 in 86. Again it was mentioned as a stick to beat him with. 3 years earlier who said Coughlans world time was slow - actually a dawdle. And when Farrah won in 13-41 in summer where was Foster and Cram with their lets make it a true run race - can anybody explain what a true run race is in a championship as I am dying to know
He had to use the 800 heats & final to get him race ready for retaining his 1500m title. He also had the misfortune of coming up against a man who put together the greatest series of championship 800m runs ever. Cruz on that day would have beaten anything that Ovett or Cram ever produced at 800m. Indeed, his 25.2 last 200m in a 1:43.0 is better than anything Kipketer or Rudisha have produced in subsequent years in Championship races.
what a underrated athelete Peter Elliott was
Have you EVER said something original?
@@markfox1545 obviously you have you superior human being you !
Don't think he was underrated.
Peter, Peter, Peter.
@martynhanson You could say the same about 83. If Coe hadn't been ill in the 82 Europeans and for practically all of 83, he would have won 800 gold in 82 and could have done the World Champs double in 83. Ovett was fully fit in Helsinki 83 and ran a dreadful race. Coe had more than his fair share of illness ruining gold medal chances. The Olympics are still the pinnacle however, and Hemery is in a great position to say such things having won an Olympic gold himself.
In all sport you are often better off being lucky rather than talented.
Rono deserved the gold though because he ran his best ever race when it mattered- at the Olympic Games
Well put!!!
Amen. That day. That race. All that matters.
Nice to know Steve Cram was using Pat Butcher's barber.
😂
Are you serious on a cinder track in 1960 herb elliot ran 3:35.6 after taking lead after passing 800m around 1:57 this if you allow for synthetic track advantage is at least comparable to 1988 olympics won in 3:35.96 800m passed in 2:00. runners aren't getting much better just tracks and opportunity
I suspect the runners are getting better and that's why the Europeans aren't on top any more. Think Mo Farah has a better time of 1500m than Cram, Coe & Ovett but there's no way he could win an Olympic medal at the distance.
Elliot and Snell ran 3:35 on rubbish tracks, could have run 3:31 even sub 3:30 with todays tracks and pacers. Jim Ryun maybe 3:28 with best pacers
@@forest69ist advantage depends on running style. Also not all tracks are the same. Synthetic tracks give bounce and when when your style is bounce and knee lift the advantage is greater. Shuffling style runners get less of an advantage, indeed it is harder to change gears. I would have rather run of dirt personally. The same for everyone and get a better grip for your kick.
@@forest69ist re Ryun. Think he could have gone sub 3.30 with today's tech and science. And I don't mean cheating. However you don't know how much he wanted to get in to hurt locker. And it would really hurt.
Re Ryun hurt locker. He ran sub 4 mile in high school beat Snell in 1965, i am sure he could produce better results in his mid 20s with financial support and pacers these days.
There was an opportunity for Elliot and Cram to take lead after the 2 lap mark and perhaps if they had the would have fought for Gold and Silver between them. They were both finishing fastest in the home straight but they left it too late. I think Cram's confidence was shot at this point. He won a big race earlier in the summer (including beating Abdi Bile) by coming from behind on the home straight but he shouldn't have been leaving it so late. The defeat by Abascal in 1987 left Cram scared to take it out from 600m like he used to win races in his pomp. Still, not a bad achievement considering they were both injured and both had unwisely chosen to compete in the 800m. If anyone thinks a fit Coe, Cram, and Elliot wouldn't have split the medals between them here you only have to consider that Steve Scott well past his best finished 5th and not too far off the pace (a prime Scott finished 10th in the Los Angeles final).
Oh, and we can presume that Jans Peter Herald was doping as all East German athletes did.
The fact our selectors chose not take Coe along in 88 still annoys me! What were they thinking ?
@@Sean-zg4iy answer, they weren’t. The selectors proved their massive incompetence again a decade later when not selecting Roger Black for the 98 Europeans in Budapest.
@@garetht9666 I always feel sorry for the East German's because they are put under a shadow of doping. In reality there was nothing they (middle distance runners) could take which could improve their performance at the time. They couldn't take stimulants but that would be in their urine and the synthetics were for the future. Blood doping is a possibility and things like sleeping oxygen test is not (and has never been) illegal. The East German machine was full of crooks and cheats but no athlete was ever caught.
@@peterh1353 Lol, the East Germans were blood doping, and that would have improved their performances in both the 800 and 1500m, as likely shown by Beyer in 78 and Straub in 80. It's a documented, proven in a court of law fact that they were pumping 13 year old girls with steroids. But you think they wouldn't have been been blood doping their middle-distance runners?
I think that Cram runned too long in the third lap, therefore he runned 4 or 5 meters more. This was a big mistake.
Rubbish. I can't remember the form Cram had in '88 but he certainly wasn't at his best in this race.
Peter Rono did what few other runners can do in a major championships 1,500-metre final: lead the race from 700 metres and still win, without a dramatic and explosive final kick. Elliott, Herold and Cram must have regretted not quite having had the speed to outrun Rono on that day. Rono, by the way, never won an Olympic or a World Championships medal after 1988.
Kenyans have DEPTH!
Y los 5000de esa edicion olimpica la final
Lol!
You know little about this period. Coe had already beaten Ereng, the 800m champion at these Games, twice in the months before Seoul. The closing splits here were far inferior to Coe's corresponding splits in LA. And Coe beat both Rono and Herold the following season. Cram was dismal in this race. If he hadn't been greedy in trying to run the 800 as well (where he wasn't even good enough to get to the final), then maybe he'd have won a medal in the 15.
is Peter Rono related to Henry Rono?
I know this is late but he is not
D’ono.
@deano27671 Don't think Ovett was 100% fit before the Worlds having missed most of 82 injured. He was getting there but had not run fast times prior to the games and although doing 3:30 couple of weeks later don't think he was confident going into the race. His finish was never the same after that injury as well. I think Coe would have won in 88 as he had regained fitness by the time of the games. AB the only guy who could have beat him was missing as well.
Faltan Abascal y gonzalez
Cram might’ve had a shot if he hadn’t gotten comfortable with the slow pace. He ran someone else’s race instead of his fast pace from the gun
He was in no shape for a fast race unfortunately. He was just hoping that things might get lucky for him.
Cram the most talented runner not win olympic gold. So sad
Was the best in the world at his best and world champion. Better career than Rono. Always thought he was weak psychology - when he was beaten he quits. Comes from doing TV ads and too much attention too young. Got no medal here and he can't have been the 4th best athlete.
@@peterh1353 Jim Ryun was one of the beast not to win Olympic gold too.
@@peterh1353 He was in bad shape at this point in his career. 87 and 88 were horrible for him in terms of injuries.
oh cram i love u so much................
You really are ignorant aren't you! Blood doping was banned after Seb Coe himself (in conjunction with Lord Moynihan) had carried out the original report on blood doping when Vice president of the Sports' Council. He was the one who actively sought it to be passed as statute by the IAAF. This happened in 85 and Coe ran his fastest ever 1500 (3:29) at the end of the following season, not to mention winning the 800 European.
Blood doping is taking out your own blood and putting it back before a race. Undetectable. Yes banned, but unless caught red handed who can stop it?
Why did Cram take so long to make his move?
Often a small C Conservative runner. Rono caught them all out. I bet if you ask any of the contenders what they knew about him they would shrug their shoulders. Front runners rarely win. They tend to peak before the line. Rono sprinted in two bursts. Often a clever ploy at all levels. Let them come close and go again. Good to see you fit and well Charlie. Have you had your nose fixed yet?
Rono was not lucky! How can anyone be lucky in a distance race?
@martynhanson Coe still won 2 consecutive Olympic silvers, (not to mention a host of other gold, silver and bronze medals over 800m from other major races/championships over a long period), which is a better effort than Cram & Ovett put together over their favoured 1500m in the Olympic arena. Since WW2, only Snell and Cruz have a better record at the Olympics over 800m. His is better than Kipketer's.
I would argue that Mal Whitfield has a better record!
Won silver running a terrible race in Moscow. No way would have got a medal in a non boycott Olympics.
@@SirPeter6464Meuh.
martin rono maybe
they didn't want to select him 84 either in 89 i think he ran 3:29.77 the has been. if better competition dragged him through at his peak a 3:28 was in the offing. and i'm not his greatest fan just done thorough research
mistake 3:29 in 86 but 1:43.38 800m in 89
@martynhanson Coe With his pure basic speed and 1500m endurance, Coe should have won almost every 800m final he ever ran. I will contend,however, that in championship races he used way too much energy to be up front in every race. Amazingly, someone with so much speed trusted it so little and spent to much energy jostling with others early on, leaving little left for the finish.
If Cruz hadn't been Brazilian, think he could have dominated the 800m for a few years & probably taken Coe's record too.
@abuj1 ya i'm pvxc. i'm ian. one of the freshman.
Viva San Fermin
He never won another race after this period!
Peter Rono Olympic Gold Medalist !!! Don't begrudge him.
When he went back to Mt St Mary's college after this he won conference championships but not anything internationally
@@kpk33xHe never won anything of significance after this.
I really never picked up on any negative vibe from the commentators when Ovett won the Commonwealth! I think you're reading things that aren't there. In fact, they sounded really pleased that he had won. It's a shame he went down with a virus in the Europeans as I feel he would have beaten Buckner, and in so doing would have run sub 13:10. I get where you're coming from with Foster & Cram's hyperbole over Farah this summer. Foster in particular really is a dreadful sycophant.
Part of team Farrah. Went to his wedding. Shouldn't have done that, need to be objective and not be a cheerleader. Mind you brown nosing has been Foster's game. Wealthy man despite being a respectable, but hardly world beating, athlete.
@@SirPeter6464 I never rated Foster as a commentator. Cram was good but can be a bit biased these days.
@@SirPeter6464 I must defend Brendan here. If you look at his record the Geordie Boy was world class at four different disciplines, 1500/3000/5000 and 10000m, which is why he could commentate with such authority.
@@deano27671 I thought he was one of the best due to him being world class himself at four different disciplines, 1500/3000/5000 and 10000m.
@@gunternetzer9621 He was there and competitive. I never suggested anything else. Used it to get ahead in life in a way you couldn't get away with in the USA. Rather like Henry Cooper.
last 700m within a tenth of a second of same time in 1984 and 1988 1:35.7 coe ran 3.5 sec quicker to 800m so should have been more lactated yet still runs last 700m same pace as rono so coe was as good as rono. And coe finished flying could have went a second quicker if he had to kick sooner, coe was as good as many kenyans except noah nyeng. Coe ran great times with ineffective pacemakers and had officialdom making him run rubbish english meets instead of chasing records when he was in form
Don't agree with all you say. Ran for clubs and his county. His choice alone. Plenty of people beat Coe. He spread a lot of happiness around. Not many people beat Ovett, certainly not between world records.
Nobody had anything at the end. Rono winning from the front and fair play to him. Timid running from the others. Cram knew - then - he would never be Olympic champion and maybe the best never to be that. Explains his expression.
Jim Ryun
If Jens-Peter Herold was part of the now famous GDR program during its doping years. Will that give Steve Cram a bronze medal eventually?
No
Time limit. And there is actually no proof he doped. He was part of their sports medicine project. But they all were. Although it is a long discussion there are some athletes who cannot improve by doping. Steroids make people heavier and actually slower in middle distance events. Stimulants have to be in your blood stream. Remember this is before EPO and the like.
@abuj1 LOL whatsup! So funny to see pvxc here! SO I guess the lesson is not to sit n kick? jk love you jeff. Just follow the recipe
Coe - still the best package - fuck everyone has raced Coe - he finished 25th in the nth midland league - I was in the 100ths - stop saying you raced him - there is being in a race and racing
I think you're being over sensitive. I remember when Coe won the 800 in Stuttgart in 86, Coleman said, "The time (1:44.5) doesn't matter a bit,..." implying it was slow. I had no sense at all of the commentators being biased against Ovett at the time or looking back. He hasn't been forgotten by those interested in the sport, but he doesn't do himself any favours living in Oz and refusing most interviews, tv appearances in this country.
Does Ovett live in Australia? Sensible, but I'm surprised...he still commentates as an expert occasionally, I think
I actually think Ovett was a bit of a child back then. You are carrying a sport and have to do a bit of PR for it. Typical never had a real job merchant. More rounded now. Didn't like the idea of a movie on his rivalry between Coe and refused cooperation.
Rono beat who he had to beat on the day. Fact. But Elliot due to 800m exertions and Cram were not at optimum fitness IMO. They may not have beaten them had they been mind.
I think Coe would have won this race though although I don't think (I have disagreed with Deano on this b4) he would have won 800m. )t would have been the perfect prep. Elliot was fantastic he as was only semi pro whereas the other UK Golden Era were all full time.
Gotta separate at mid race against the Africans!
What? I didn't side step his medal at 18 at all! I'm the one who mentioned it! I have always believed Ovett to have been better at an earlier age than Coe, but that doesn't mean he was better. It just means he developed at a quicker rate, earlier. At 18 Coe was still a kid, while Ovett already looked like a man. You also jump to conclusions over Coe's indoor gold.
I thought Peter Coe deliberately brought Seb on slowly, so he didn't mature too soon...his whole career was planned like a business. Brilliant athlete but something left me cold.
0:04 " six six eight Peter Rono, the danger from Kenya."
why pay tribute to Peter Ellliotts, he did'nt win !!!!!!!!!
Silver medals are really easy to come by aren't they? THAT'S why.
Nonsense. He lost the 800 in Moscow because he chose to run about 8m further than Ovett did. Yes he was in top form, but he didn't give himself a chance. Coe finished faster than Ovett over last 100 & 200 despite running further. It was his first Olympics and the pressure got to him in that 1st race. He did a darn sight better than Ovett did in his first Olympics in 76 (5th and failing to get to the final in the 15).
Comparing Coe's first Olympics to Ovett's is hardly fair! The two men are of a simlar age so comparing their results in '76 would be fairer. Ovett was only 5th in the 800...where was Coe?
Even a 3/4 fit Seb Coe could have won this in 3.35 slowing up at the end. The decision to not allow a 2 time Olympic 1500 m Gold medallist the opportunity to represent his country here is one of the worst ever made. His amazing service to Great Britain had earned him that opportunity imo!!!
Neutral Observer hindsight is so easy. Coe did not even qualify for the final of the 1500 metres trials. The selectors decision to om mitt Coe was understandable in my opinion. They received of lot of flak for not doing so but they were in a no-win situation. I'm sure had Coe shown anything like his true form in the trials he would have been selected.
@@anthonyquinn6009 We all know that. Still no excuse imo. Coe was the one with the best chance of improving enough to win in the time between the trials and the Olympic 1500 metre final. Remember he won in 1984 having lost most of 1982 and 1983 through far worse health problems. Surely to god an athlete who has won the event twice before has earned enough cache to be allowed a pass? It's not like we are the USA, China or Russia. You might have a point if the 2 athletes we did select finished with gold and silver. We will never know what would have happened if Coe had been selected but I will always believe that he should have been selected!
Totally agree that Coe should have gone. He did hit some good form just after the trials. The selectors had the option to let him in. Gutless.
@@bernardfox9078 Totally agree, I am still angry about that decision to this day. Coe would have had a good chance of winning this. He ran faster than the winner in a practice race around the same time as this and was in good form just after the trials. Also, the IOC gave him a wild card into it and GB athletics still wouldn’t send him, shameful decision and they got what they deserved ,no gold medal.
@@anthonyquinn6009 You take your best runners to the Olympics and Coe was one of the best 1500m runners in the world, still at that point. I think the selectors were unprofessional - this is business not Chariots of Fire.
@RawMarketingSolution Bullshit! Coe would've had his arse handed to him, no doubt whatsoever. He wasn't in shape and, even if selected, wouldn't have been up to the challenge.
re 84 final - if Coe had been carted off stricken on a stretcher and a truly fit Ovett would have won then history could easily have been written differently. you can't win if you are ill. this London olympic thing is driving me nuts. Putting everything on this. Take Farah. If a month before the games he gets injured what then? As David Hemery said - to put everything on one day in 4 years in the future is ridiculous. don't think the athletes of today have worked this one out yet
Nobody thinks Rono is better than Cram. But got an Olympic title and Cram hasn't. That hurts him. However that is for the general public who need easy references. Cram of 85 driving out at the Bell in a 1500m was - for me - the ultimate. Nobody in the history of running could have got passed him. Nobody.
@@SirPeter6464 I think a lot of people have got their moment for 1500m runners. Elliott in Rome 1962 and Ovett in World Cup 1977 and the list could go on and on. Actually my post was nothing to do with Rono as he didn't show he was a great runner. So he was never in the debate. I was making the point that Ovett was edged out of history in that 84 final and nobody stopped to think what would have happened if Coe would have been in that position Ovett was in. Also, Cram was not in shape that 84 season. He had trodden on a coke tin and had injury problems early in the season. It's obvious Cram was not in top shape in those games.
Ovett fans would rather remember him for his wins against lesser fields and not dwell on his Olympic bronze & World 4th. Seems like double standards to me!
As for the LA 800m, Coe's build up was hardly problem free and he certainly wasn't as race fit as most of the other entrants at the beginning of the 800m event. All this bull***t about Cram not being fit before the Games and "if Ovett hadn't been ill", doesn't stand up to much scrutiny.
Could have sworn Ovett had an Olympic Gold, but I don't want to argue with a genius
boiling and bubbling ok
Coe would have won this going away.
Nup!
Coe always had a myth making machine behind him. Rubbish in trials and didn't qualify. His day was over.
@@SirPeter6464 The myth making machine didn't set all those records. Yes, Coe ran a poor race in the trials and didn't qualify. And Rono ran a great race to get gold. But you don't think that Coe couldn't have kicked off a 2:43 1100 meters? He ran a 1:43 800m after the Olympics.
A fit Abde Bile and Said Aouita could have cleaned up here.
Steve Cram couldn't deliver. Peter Elliott did! 😀👍🥈
Cram got a silver in ‘84. Overall Elliot’s career pales in comparison to Crams in all fairness.
5:16 "What a run by yet another Kenyan. They really find him and this is a new one as well.Peter Rono a famous name, 21 years old has come through to take Olympic gold on his first major international appearance. Cram just hadn"t got the legs, but it matters most of all. A bold piece of front running."
Winning by doping is sheer duping
Later, health will not be truly coping
Body won't be peacefully sleeping
Worst rewards, one will be reaping
Winning in a normal way is pretty
Medal through doping is petty
True success alone is mighty
That must be sports man's duty.
No, it's a time and a place at that time. You and others say Coes is greatest 800m runner ever but he was 100% at time of both his 800m Olympic finals but was trounced in both for gold
By the way, Ovett was not 100% at time of 83 world champs and even though he ran fastest last lap it was clear Cram had something in hand and I say that as Ovett fan
@martynhanson true, but seb simply achieved more than greats like ovett and cram. he was better overall 800/miler
Rono ran hard. Cram's injury in the Rieti 1k cost him here... despite his ferocious last 30m when he decided, suddenly, that he could still win despite all the problems. But, then, the travesty of the 1988 UK OG selection! It wasn't Peter Elliott who was the problem. The selections should have been: Coe, Elliott, Cram for both 800 and 1500. McKean in the 800 was a total joke, worst championship runner of the era. Crabb in the 15 was an OK runner, but not in the class of the big 3.
Did the selectors have a choice? Cram was pre-selected & the first 2 in the trials were to join him...Cram's last championship medal was in '86, I think...too many injuries subsequently
Peter is a lot heavier today.He measured me for a pair of New Balance at the store in Hasbrouck Heights,NJ.
🤪🤪 Indeed he is. Like so many of us old dogs.
It was in Rieti in '86 that he ran that 3.29. Sure, he ran 1.43/3.35 in '88, but to have him run in Seoul, they would've had to leave out Tom McKean (Euro Silver winner), or the World Silver Medallist Peter Elliott, or The Commonwealth Champion Steve Cram in the 800. In the 1500, they would've had to leave out 3.33 runner Steve Crabb. Crabb earned his placethrough the trial and it would've been unfair that an out of shape and unproven Coe (even if he was the reigning champ) be given preference.
Coe earned that much. He should have been selected and he would probably have won gold easing up at the finish in 3.35. Disgraceful decision that the double Olympic Gold Medalist for GB in the 1500 wasn't allowed to go as he was coming back from injury. Seriously what did Steve Crabb do with his opportunity?
THE 1988 WAS THE START OF THE DEMISE OF BRITISH ENTITLEMENT IN SPORTS...HAVE YOU EVER HEARD THEM CROWN THEIR SPORTS FIGURES AS LORDS AND SIRS IN RECENT MEMORY LIKE THEY USED TO.......LATEST IN THE 80'S ?
WOOO!!! PETER KIPCHUMBA RONO FTW!!
So the Kenyan wins gold and the cameras set on those British losing fellas...lol...
Marcus O'Sullivan, great runner, future world indoor champion, but that's a shocker of a haircut (0:18). Still, at least he's not dressed like Steve Scott!