Back in the 80s , a pal worked for a guy who was a Pontiac nut. He had a bunch , but the point right now is he had an sd-455. Automatic. Pretty cool car , faded original paint and she ran pretty good.
@@MrTheHillfolk Pontiacs SD 455 in 1974 was the highest rated domestic production motor rated @ 290 net bhp for that year. The 1974 Corvettes 454 only put out 270 net bhp.
@@barnabyjones6995 No doubt. He told us a little bit of the history about it before we went for a ride. Darn thing ran good! He had one he bought wrecked (an sd455) and swapped it into a turquoise and rust 67 tempest aptly named "turquoise and rust" That was a fun late 80s sleeper
Poncho power to the rescue. Good match up. Clearly both cars were in fine state of tune. The L36 427 was one of Chevrolet best street engines. Amazing what Pontiac was able to accomplish with those low compression 455s. Good video.
Gears definitely made the difference here, rather than the engines. The Corvette would have benefited greatly from lower gears and lighter weight of a coupe as opposed to the convertible. It's built to cruise not to blow doors off.
The 390 hp 427 was 10-1 compression. Not what I would say is high compared to all the other 427s with 11-1 and 12.5-1. BUT, compression comes at a cost too. It takes something to squeeze that intake charge that tight compared to 8.5-1. Then you get camshaft duration to help.....or hurt.
I like to see these cars run in stock form, being I wasn’t around in those days. LOL. I’ve never heard of the Firebird formula 455, nice to see. I do know of the super duty Trans Am.
A buddy of mine had a '73 TA 455 SD (4spd and I think 391 gears) but at 90 mph that thing actually put you back in the seat like it hit passing gear. Awesome car!
Perhaps the most shocking outcome in C&Z history. I was sure I was going to watch the Vette cross the line twice as the Firebird sat at the start smoking its tires. Fun vid! Thanks for keeping them coming!
Pontiac engines weighed nearly the same across the spectrum. The Corvette was happier with small block weight under the hood. Enter the L88 with aluminium heads and intake to bring the front to rear weight bias where Duntov designed this suspension to work best in ALL situations. Not the case here of course. Pontiac power was very much a reckoning force.
@@SweatyFatGuy I had a 69 350 HO Firebird. 3 speed manual 3.55s. It had 92000 on it when I got it. It ran pretty good. I bent the restrictor arm on the Q jet secondary, put an M21 4 speed in and it wasn't long before the engine started drinking oil. Sadly, I cannibalized it with a SBC. I pinstriped a Bowtie in the rear window. It ran pretty good when I got it on a chassis dyno and figured out the rest. Make no mistake. I would have loved to have gotten my hands on an SD 455 TA. I tried to buy one a couple of times but they were justifiably proud of them. I couldn't swing it. RA IVs were equally hard to find let alone get someone to part with.
I had a completely stock 1973 455 Formula Firebird (non SD) with the functional Ram Air setup and the low end torque on the stock 455 Formula was incredible. In light to light street racing the Formula 455 was instant killer due to the tremendous low end torque. It was sad to let the Formula 455 go but university has its price. The sweet thing about my 1973 Formula 455 was that I could easily run the car off of regular unleaded gas and still run circles around the 3.7 Buick GN, 350 Corvettes. and 350 Trans Ams. Growing up during the 80s and 90s was a great time as anyone with 400 horsepower back then was a serious contender on the street. Today's modified cars have way too much horsepower for street racing to be even sane.
That was a great matchup definitely what you used to see street racing back in the day. As usual your narrative style is the best, and enjoy your humor.
I had a 73 Formula 455. It was one of the fastest street cars back in the day in Miami Dade County. It ran 10:50s with mufflers no nitrous. It would upset a lot of people. They couldn't believe it. I miss that car.
For my monologue I’d like to present C&Zs USS Indianapolis scene: The Corvettes started showing up so we formed close groups. You’d hear the first race and men would be hollering and screaming, and sometimes the Corvettes would go away... and sometimes they wouldn’t go away. That’s the thing with Corvettes. They have dead headlights. Those weird hideaway headlights. And then you’d hear the scream of that big block and it rips you to pieces. I’ll never wear a seatbelt again. And scene. Thank you.
The 455s seem to respond very well to very specific (pure stock allowed) mods. I’m starting to look for one. I wouldn’t mind a 1973, just like the one shown.
@@beckywatt5048 I ordered a Buick Stage 1 4-speed convertible back in 1970. Talk about torque. I could start off in 3rd gear with no problem. Amazing automobile.
@@frankrichardcaruso6719 I have rode in a couple , magnificent machines , I was fortunate enough to get my hands on a big block Chevelle project car as a senior in HS , for a good price, was a blast when I got it finished ., Don't know why people went nuts over Camaros and Firebirds , I'm a big guy , 6'7 275lbs , I found the bigger cars a must .
Back in the mid-70's I had a respected gearhead tell me that low compression engines made more horsepower because it was easier for the pistons to reach top dead center! I could never match his wisdom. So humbling!
I have a 73 ta original stock it is quite surprising with a 342 the L-l75 is very underrated and to think it was also put into Station Wagons at the time
really surprised the firebird ran down the vette...like the vette was topping out early. guess the gearing in the firebird was a perfect match. just luv them surprises...keeps me tuning in to the channel
Just goes to show that an Engines Compression isn't a huge factor in performance. Yes, it does make a difference but Not as much as everyone thinks. It's the Engines combination of parts that makes it work, or Not work. When i built my last engine, a 521 Stroked BBF kept my Compression right around 10.5:1 that way it will still make good power and still run on Premium Pump Gas, if it needs to. Now if i were to build a truly dedicated Race Engine, where competition is super tight i would probably run a Super high Compression probably around 14:1 But must remember it's Always gonna need a High Dollar Race Gas All the time. To me Compression is like Overboreing an Engine, .030, .040, .060 and so on, it does Very Little for Performance. Some people don't seem to understand that, Some people think by adding 5 or 6 cubic inches to an Engine by Boreing it .030 Over, there gonna gain Huge Power, Not True. Be much Better to increase Stroke to gain cubic inches and Power. Just my 2 cents.
Nice matchup here. I really didn't know which to pick because I know Pontiacs run hard. I owned a 69 Vette for several years but it was the 350hp 350 4sp. Those cars aren't quite as light as you would think. Thanks for posting I always enjoy the races!
Out of his videos that I’ve seen, this is the best one yet. Cars were close enough to make you wonder, they went all three races, and I love the jaws reference throughout
I think the gearing of the Pontiac kept that motor in the fat part of its torque band for a longer period; I'm guessing that's why you would see it catch the 'vette as they both went by. I'm also guessing the 'vette had better tire/wheel package and the driver was able to launch better and get out of the hole quicker. Just my .02 cents
@@CarsAndZebras It's one of my favorite movies, and I've memorized that scene! You're re-interpretation of it was brilliant! I also loved the nails on the chalkboard scene, "Not like goin' down to the street and chasin' HONDAS". LOL You even got the accent just right!
Great running cars! I believe 390hp was the lowest output 427 ever put in a Corvette. Q-jet, small port heads...And while the factory sidepipes are beautiful, they choke power badly. Excellent times considering.
Goodday C & Z, That was a complete surprise, but I am a Poncho fan after Oldsmobile. Honestly I thought the Corvette would of had it in the bag for sure. Great racing unexpected victory, got to love that. Hope you are staying safe atm. Anymore Mopars coming up soon Your number 1 Fan in Australia Louis Kats from Melbourne Australia ☺ 👍 ❤
Wow, didn't see that coming and I'm a Pontiac guy!? I took the vette easily over that year 455. Probably would've been different if it was the L88 427 though...! Pontiac, FTW
Using a race calculator the Formula was making around 330 net hp based on mph and weight. I think some small mods are allowed or not known about considering it was rated at 250 stock. Interesting is that the 390 gross hp for the corvette is around 330 net too. Thats why they were so close, pontiac a little lighter a little faster.
F body mafia here! I had a 1971 Firebird Esprit and a 1980 Trans Am. Both of mine were screamin' chickens! I loved them both for what they were. The 71 had a built out the ass 350, and with a 2:71 rear it was all top end. Most everything could take me off the line, but after 88mph... yeah, some serious shit was happening. 😂🤣😂🤣 I know it was stupid, I was 25 and there was little to no traffic to speak off that morning. That said, I raced my neighbor in his 73 Malibu around I-285 one Sunday morning about 3am. I was walking away within seconds of a rolling start at 30 to 40 mph. In about 10 seconds he was so far back he had no chance. After a few more seconds I looked down and I was going 145 mph. When I realized it, I let off the gas and I learned the importance of a tight front end. You build a fast motor and forget the suspension you'll find out too. That front started to shake and scared the hell out of me. I eased into the brake and it helped a little, but it was a scary ride back to the speed limit. I never took it that fast again. Lots of 90 to 100 sprints of stupidity, but nothing as fast as that night. Unfortunately, one Friday driving home from work I caught a semi's spare rim, which fell off the spare tire cradle on his trailer. It hit the ground and smacked car behind him and then bounced square on my front right window post, and that totaled my little canary F-body Esprit. I sold it for scrap and just waved goodbye to my first ever engine build. That was 1991, and it seems like yesterday. 😊
pontiac wins... gm always feared that will happened...that's why pontiac got craped on pontiac had to use chevy engines and don't get me wrong chevy have some good engins but chevy engines should stay in chevy cars that's all i'm saying.. using chevy engines imo made pontiac lose there identity IMO... I love pontiac engines...and i hope they return with their pontiac identity i will be happy...326 389 400 421 455-SD
love it I have one of the 227 formula 455 4 speeds w/ air and every trans am option factory installed its mint engine rebielt 30 over comp cam head work its a monster.Joe P.
Wow awesome video it definitely caught my eye... because I have the exact same 69 Corvette with gears and all and a 76 Trans am with the same set up but with automatic. Love your videos they are awesome with the right amount of humor lol.
Now that I did not expect! I love both of those cars but we all know the 427 is one hell of an engine, especially when compared to a low compression 455 Pontiac. Don't get me wrong, the torque of that Pontiac engine is great, even in '73 trim, but the higher compression 427 is always a bad motor!
So you think that GM “exterminated” Pontiac in 2010 because of something that happened in 1973? Yeah, I’m sure it had nothing to do with Pontiac sales tanking and them losing money. You Pontiac guys are insufferable crybabies.
I'm shocked. I'm a Pontiac guy having owned three GTOs. But really surprised that a 73 Formula beat a 390hp Vette impressively. I dusted 73 and 74 Trans Ams with 455s with my 69 and 70 Goats like little children. Vettes were a different matter. Won a few and lost a few.
I have footage of a real-deal BOSS 429 from last year. The owner had finished the restoration the day before the race and hadn’t even completed a shakedown of the car. I’m not kidding at all. As you can imagine, the car didn’t run terrible quick because it had almost zero tuning. Everything was just out of the box. ~$500,000 car.
The 390 hp 427 had smaller cylinder heads. The big block Chevies had 2 sized heads. Smaller oval port and the large port hi-perf heads. With the smaller port heads that Vette' will only be able to breath so much.
Bluebird is setup well. I was impressed with the top end charge of it. Considering that it's a smogger it was day lighting the Vette at the top end. With all due respect, in regards to the unbeatable vettes, I could name 6 cars off the top of my head that would be step for step or beat them.
I always look at the mile per hour before the ET # as far as the math goes. Horsepower determines MPH. not ET. So in this case it with similar weight. I think the Firebird is underrated as hell
WTF are you talking about?? He VERY CLEARLY PUTS BOTH gross/net horsepower ratings on the screen. And to go from gross to net you have to REMOVE ~15%, not add.
Find a Corvette without side pipes. I've seen several tests here showing a loss of 25-40 horsepower depending on engine. I believe the chambered pipe is under 2 inches diameter. Plus I believe this race series allows increasing exhaust size. Don't know how you could do this with chambered pipes.
I had a 1974 Formula 455. Essentially, the same car with a TH400 and 3:42 gears - and, an uglier nose and rear :) That thing consistently ran a 13.5 in the quarter. Fun street car with just about every power option Pontiac had. I miss that one.
These drivers are consistent, and seemingly getting everything out of their respective cars. Anybody know what car testing publications got from these cars in period?
These are actually pretty close to 100% stock. There are guys in L88 cars doing 120 mph traps in some of the stock classes which misleads people to believe that a Corvette in 1967 did 120 in the 1/4 off the showroom floor. Still a badass class though.
This was an interesting video! all the way around. Entertaining! I'm a Pontiac fan. I thought the Vette was going to spank the firebird! Very equal cars! Thanks for making this video!
As somebody who has raced Firebirds for 30+ years. I can't see a A/C car weighing 3562. My non A/C Firebird with aluminum wheels and aluminum intake weighed 3555 at the track.
Higher compression goes well with racing gas, but it's not everything. The L36 was the bottom rung of the Corvette big block ladder, so even though it used 11 to 1 compression, it still had a fairly mild cam compared to the 427s above it.
350 300 HP is the stock low compression wiht a 4 barrel quadrajet used in pickup trucks called the LM-1 in the 1979 Era had 10.3 to 1 compression in 1970 .. lower compression in 72 by '73 qbout 8.2 compression ..
![ถามตรงๆ กับ อาจตุพร ทำไม ประเทศไทย ใครเป็นนายก ก็โดนด่า พอออกเเล้วคนคิดถึง!!?? l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3YFLMXxBGAs/mqdefault.jpg)
Great race! Both interesting cars! I guess you could say they’re...... jawsome.
TERRIBLE jokes! Are you FIN-ished??
@@erikcorredor255 Almost as terrible as that chin strap beard. Maybe next time you'll CHEWS more wisely and make a bigger SPLASH.
🤣😂 Hey the tooth of the matter is the "Abe" beard attracts the ladies. Though admittedly they are often whale sized "personalities" 😳
owned a sd 455 never lost a 1/4 mile or top end say Michigan to Florida
Great race! Far too many people underestimate Pontiac power!
Although the era of true high HP Muscle Cars ended in 1971, the 73 & 74 Firebirds with the 455 fell through the cracks. They were kick-ass cars.
Back in the 80s , a pal worked for a guy who was a Pontiac nut.
He had a bunch , but the point right now is he had an sd-455. Automatic.
Pretty cool car , faded original paint and she ran pretty good.
@@MrTheHillfolk Pontiacs SD 455 in 1974 was the highest rated domestic production motor rated @ 290 net bhp for that year. The 1974 Corvettes 454 only put out 270 net bhp.
I read that DeLorean had 4 to 5 thousand of the 455s built and put in storage in the early 1970s until needed
@@barnabyjones6995
No doubt.
He told us a little bit of the history about it before we went for a ride.
Darn thing ran good!
He had one he bought wrecked (an sd455) and swapped it into a turquoise and rust 67 tempest aptly named "turquoise and rust"
That was a fun late 80s sleeper
True Pontiac never got the memo to de tune them and put the smog equipment on them
Poncho power to the rescue. Good match up. Clearly both cars were in fine state of tune. The L36 427 was one of Chevrolet best street engines. Amazing what Pontiac was able to accomplish with those low compression 455s. Good video.
Thanks for watching!
The gearing was perfect for that Pontiac, it used it's low end torque to edge out a high compression big block 427🔥
Gears definitely made the difference here, rather than the engines. The Corvette would have benefited greatly from lower gears and lighter weight of a coupe as opposed to the convertible. It's built to cruise not to blow doors off.
The Pontiac is definitely set up well! 👍
The 390 hp 427 was 10-1 compression. Not what I would say is high compared to all the other 427s with 11-1 and 12.5-1. BUT, compression comes at a cost too. It takes something to squeeze that intake charge that tight compared to 8.5-1. Then you get camshaft duration to help.....or hurt.
I like to see these cars run in stock form, being I wasn’t around in those days. LOL. I’ve never heard of the Firebird formula 455, nice to see. I do know of the super duty Trans Am.
@@livewire2759 Nah it's the rear tires...
A buddy of mine had a '73 TA 455 SD (4spd and I think 391 gears) but at 90 mph that thing actually put you back in the seat like it hit passing gear. Awesome car!
@@davesracingchannel9261 "Turbo chargers".........and NOT factory.....why don't you grow up kid......these classic engines are NA.
Perhaps the most shocking outcome in C&Z history. I was sure I was going to watch the Vette cross the line twice as the Firebird sat at the start smoking its tires. Fun vid! Thanks for keeping them coming!
I think what’s crazy is that the Corvette always seemed to get caught by the Firebird in the second half of the track. I didn’t expect that.
Didn't see this one coming.
That’s what she said 💦
I would've never thought their weight was that close.
Surprising 👍
Pontiac engines weighed nearly the same across the spectrum. The Corvette was happier with small block weight under the hood. Enter the L88 with aluminium heads and intake to bring the front to rear weight bias where Duntov designed this suspension to work best in ALL situations. Not the case here of course. Pontiac power was very much a reckoning force.
@@thegreenerthemeaner ssshhhhh don't tell them about Pontiacs, let them think we are slow and won't run better than 15s...
@@SweatyFatGuy I had a 69 350 HO Firebird. 3 speed manual 3.55s. It had 92000 on it when I got it. It ran pretty good. I bent the restrictor arm on the Q jet secondary, put an M21 4 speed in and it wasn't long before the engine started drinking oil. Sadly, I cannibalized it with a SBC. I pinstriped a Bowtie in the rear window. It ran pretty good when I got it on a chassis dyno and figured out the rest. Make no mistake. I would have loved to have gotten my hands on an SD 455 TA. I tried to buy one a couple of times but they were justifiably proud of them. I couldn't swing it. RA IVs were equally hard to find let alone get someone to part with.
@@thegreenerthemeaner.....A Pontiac guy once told me they're all mid-blocks, from the 326 thru the 455
lol...the jaws parody was classic...good one!!
Thanks for watching!
Your comment on toilet humor and then flatulence, my 7 year old.... "I like this guy". Me too, son, me too
If I can impress a 7 year old then I’m on the right track
Awesome! Evenly Matched! Love the Jaws references! Bravo!!
Thanks for watching 😎
Pontiac with the lower compression smog motor comes out victorious...impressive! Gotta love the looks of those Stingrays...2 awesome rides!
Both very nice cars. 😎
I had a completely stock 1973 455 Formula Firebird (non SD) with the functional Ram Air setup and the low end torque on the stock 455 Formula was incredible. In light to light street racing the Formula 455 was instant killer due to the tremendous low end torque. It was sad to let the Formula 455 go but university has its price. The sweet thing about my 1973 Formula 455 was that I could easily run the car off of regular unleaded gas and still run circles around the 3.7 Buick GN, 350 Corvettes. and 350 Trans Ams. Growing up during the 80s and 90s was a great time as anyone with 400 horsepower back then was a serious contender on the street. Today's modified cars have way too much horsepower for street racing to be even sane.
great fun watching these two go at it. I'll take either one! both of these are cool as hell!
👍
I don’t think I’ve laughed so hard at one of these videos. Lots of memorable moments!
👍
3.42 rear end, was the trick here, Corvette was faster through the gears but with 4-speeds at 90mph it's the ratio that is gonna win a race.
Well done to the Pontiac. I was convinced the Vette would take it out.
Cheers 😊
Great match up. I thought for sure the Vette would walk away
One of the best videos on TH-cam.
That was a great matchup definitely what you used to see street racing back in the day.
As usual your narrative style is the best, and enjoy your humor.
I had a 73 Formula 455. It was one of the fastest street cars back in the day in Miami Dade County. It ran 10:50s with mufflers no nitrous. It would upset a lot of people. They couldn't believe it. I miss that car.
It's amazing how quick those classics still are, those are some very respectable passes !
The 455 was an underrated monster. Much love for the variations of the 427 as well.
That USS Indianapolis scene is so amazing
For my monologue I’d like to present C&Zs USS Indianapolis scene:
The Corvettes started showing up so we formed close groups.
You’d hear the first race and men would be hollering and screaming, and sometimes the Corvettes would go away... and sometimes they wouldn’t go away.
That’s the thing with Corvettes. They have dead headlights. Those weird hideaway headlights.
And then you’d hear the scream of that big block and it rips you to pieces.
I’ll never wear a seatbelt again.
And scene. Thank you.
👏 well done
All of those Jaws scenes give me a MEGABONER
Dig the princess bride reference “I’m not left handed either”
⚔️
These 455 birds are so underrated. Love em !
The 455s seem to respond very well to very specific (pure stock allowed) mods. I’m starting to look for one. I wouldn’t mind a 1973, just like the one shown.
@@CarsAndZebras The first Muscle car that ever got my drooling/dreaming attention as a young teenager (early 90's) was a white 455 Super Duty.
The Buick GSs were bad as hell too , would give a big block Chevelle a real run for it's money .
@@beckywatt5048 I ordered a Buick Stage 1 4-speed convertible back in 1970. Talk about torque. I could start off in 3rd gear with no problem. Amazing automobile.
@@frankrichardcaruso6719 I have rode in a couple , magnificent machines , I was fortunate enough to get my hands on a big block Chevelle project car as a senior in HS , for a good price, was a blast when I got it finished ., Don't know why people went nuts over Camaros and Firebirds , I'm a big guy , 6'7 275lbs , I found the bigger cars a must .
Thanks for these, great stuff! Stay safe 👍
Will do! Thanks for watching! 👍👍👍
Back in the mid-70's I had a respected gearhead tell me that low compression engines made more horsepower because it was easier for the pistons to reach top dead center! I could never match his wisdom. So humbling!
I have a 73 ta original stock it is quite surprising with a 342 the L-l75 is very underrated and to think it was also put into Station Wagons at the time
This is not correct
really surprised the firebird ran down the vette...like the vette was topping out early. guess the gearing in the firebird was a perfect match. just luv them surprises...keeps me tuning in to the channel
also, I pride myself on being jaded and detached, but this vid made me fuken laugh...the movie mash was hilarious. subbed
I love your videos brother you do a great job! even my girl who doesn't know about cars can understand these videos thank you!
Glad you both watch!
Just goes to show that an Engines Compression isn't a huge factor in performance. Yes, it does make a difference but Not as much as everyone thinks. It's the Engines combination of parts that makes it work, or Not work. When i built my last engine, a 521 Stroked BBF kept my Compression right around 10.5:1 that way it will still make good power and still run on Premium Pump Gas, if it needs to. Now if i were to build a truly dedicated Race Engine, where competition is super tight i would probably run a Super high Compression probably around 14:1 But must remember it's Always gonna need a High Dollar Race Gas All the time. To me Compression is like Overboreing an Engine, .030, .040, .060 and so on, it does Very Little for Performance. Some people don't seem to understand that, Some people think by adding 5 or 6 cubic inches to an Engine by Boreing it .030 Over, there gonna gain Huge Power, Not True. Be much Better to increase Stroke to gain cubic inches and Power. Just my 2 cents.
That Firebird was impressive! Thumb up.
Nice matchup here. I really didn't know which to pick because I know Pontiacs run hard. I owned a 69 Vette for several years but it was the 350hp 350 4sp. Those cars aren't quite as light as you would think. Thanks for posting I always enjoy the races!
thanks for watching!
Out of his videos that I’ve seen, this is the best one yet. Cars were close enough to make you wonder, they went all three races, and I love the jaws reference throughout
Great cars! Great race! Great video!
Thanks for watching! 👍
I am really suprised. I thought that 427 was a beast. I guess that Firebird had more top end.
The 427 definitely comes out front early but you’re right about that 455! She has more top end. The 427 ran out of steam.
I think the gearing of the Pontiac kept that motor in the fat part of its torque band for a longer period; I'm guessing that's why you would see it catch the 'vette as they both went by. I'm also guessing the 'vette had better tire/wheel package and the driver was able to launch better and get out of the hole quicker. Just my .02 cents
"I'll never wear a seatbelt again." C&Z - comedy GENIUS!
That IS brilliant!
You know, I wasn’t sure who’d catch that, or if they’d even get the reference. One of the most infamous scenes of any movie ever made. 👍
@@CarsAndZebras It's one of my favorite movies, and I've memorized that scene! You're re-interpretation of it was brilliant! I also loved the nails on the chalkboard scene, "Not like goin' down to the street and chasin' HONDAS". LOL You even got the accent just right!
Still rather have the Vette!
Yeah always take the Vett, unless it’s a very rare Camaro/Firebird.
Nope, not me. I'll take a bird over a vette without thought...😉
@@sierraridgereaper so you like Camaro+ more than a Vette.
@@naj5338 Camaro?
@@naj5338 lol... a camaro aint nothin like TA or Formula with poncho power... 😉
Very funny video, the Jaws references were great.
thanks for watching 👍
Great running cars! I believe 390hp was the lowest output 427 ever put in a Corvette. Q-jet, small port heads...And while the factory sidepipes are beautiful, they choke power badly. Excellent times considering.
Surprised to see the Pontiac take out the 427 Vette. Good job Poncho!
This is a damn good channel!!
Great show! A real slobber-knocker.
Goodday C & Z,
That was a complete surprise, but I am a Poncho fan after Oldsmobile. Honestly I thought the Corvette would of had it in the bag for sure. Great racing unexpected victory, got to love that.
Hope you are staying safe atm.
Anymore Mopars coming up soon
Your number 1 Fan in Australia
Louis Kats from Melbourne Australia ☺ 👍 ❤
definitely unexpected seeing a Pontiac 455 overtake a 427 Chevy in the second half of the track!
@@CarsAndZebras
I was incline to think the same as you.
Thanks for the heart 👍
@@louiskats5116 Poncho fan and Holden fan here in the States .. absolutely love my G8
Wow, didn't see that coming and I'm a Pontiac guy!? I took the vette easily over that year 455. Probably would've been different if it was the L88 427 though...! Pontiac, FTW
7/2023: Two great cars. "Size" Does matter... Thank You
Using a race calculator the Formula was making around 330 net hp based on mph and weight. I think some small mods are allowed or not known about considering it was rated at 250 stock. Interesting is that the 390 gross hp for the corvette is around 330 net too. Thats why they were so close, pontiac a little lighter a little faster.
F body mafia here! I had a 1971 Firebird Esprit and a 1980 Trans Am. Both of mine were screamin' chickens! I loved them both for what they were. The 71 had a built out the ass 350, and with a 2:71 rear it was all top end. Most everything could take me off the line, but after 88mph... yeah, some serious shit was happening. 😂🤣😂🤣 I know it was stupid, I was 25 and there was little to no traffic to speak off that morning. That said, I raced my neighbor in his 73 Malibu around I-285 one Sunday morning about 3am. I was walking away within seconds of a rolling start at 30 to 40 mph. In about 10 seconds he was so far back he had no chance. After a few more seconds I looked down and I was going 145 mph. When I realized it, I let off the gas and I learned the importance of a tight front end. You build a fast motor and forget the suspension you'll find out too. That front started to shake and scared the hell out of me. I eased into the brake and it helped a little, but it was a scary ride back to the speed limit. I never took it that fast again. Lots of 90 to 100 sprints of stupidity, but nothing as fast as that night. Unfortunately, one Friday driving home from work I caught a semi's spare rim, which fell off the spare tire cradle on his trailer. It hit the ground and smacked car behind him and then bounced square on my front right window post, and that totaled my little canary F-body Esprit. I sold it for scrap and just waved goodbye to my first ever engine build. That was 1991, and it seems like yesterday. 😊
Poor Dale. He really should have asked for a do over.
pontiac wins... gm always feared that will happened...that's why pontiac got craped on pontiac had to use chevy engines and don't get me wrong chevy have some good engins but chevy engines should stay in chevy cars that's all i'm saying.. using chevy engines imo made pontiac lose there identity IMO... I love pontiac engines...and i hope they return with their pontiac identity i will be happy...326 389 400 421 455-SD
Agree with you 100%
Neat races....the Vette comes out hot but seems to kind of fall on itself mid track and the Poncho just walks past it. Interesting.
Kind of the opposite of what you might expect
love it I have one of the 227 formula 455 4 speeds w/ air and every trans am option factory installed its mint engine rebielt 30 over comp cam head work its a monster.Joe P.
Another great race.
Wow awesome video it definitely caught my eye... because I have the exact same 69 Corvette with gears and all and a 76 Trans am with the same set up but with automatic. Love your videos they are awesome with the right amount of humor lol.
Now that I did not expect! I love both of those cars but we all know the 427 is one hell of an engine, especially when compared to a low compression 455 Pontiac. Don't get me wrong, the torque of that Pontiac engine is great, even in '73 trim, but the higher compression 427 is always a bad motor!
I'm with you on that and I'm a Pontiac guy. What surprised me the most was that the Formula ran him down.
Why do you think Chevrolet exterminated Pontiac. For reasons like this. Pontiac engines were only going to get better
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤪🤪🤪🤡🤡🤡
So you think that GM “exterminated” Pontiac in 2010 because of something that happened in 1973? Yeah, I’m sure it had nothing to do with Pontiac sales tanking and them losing money. You Pontiac guys are insufferable crybabies.
@@turboturd5289 * some of us are
@@turboturd5289 Thank you
I like both cars so well I don’t even have a favorite.
I'm shocked. I'm a Pontiac guy having owned three GTOs. But really surprised that a 73 Formula beat a 390hp Vette impressively. I dusted 73 and 74 Trans Ams with 455s with my 69 and 70 Goats like little children. Vettes were a different matter. Won a few and lost a few.
Never count out a Pontiac.
I love them both.
I haven’t read any of the comments yet, but I’m already expecting the “those aren’t stock” whiners.
If your're referring to the fact that neither car would come close to 13's 50 years ago, no whining.
@@65sohc his point is that people are too stupid to read the video description box and understand the rules of Pure Stock racing.
That corvette was short shifting. Especially the 3-4 shift.
Granny shiftin', not double clutchin' like you should. You're lucky that hundred shot of NOS didnt blow the welds on the intake.
Awsome vídeo Cars and zebras!
I'm still waiting for a Mustang BOSS 429
Just kidding i know they re rare
We'll see one of those before we see that ZL1 Corvette he mentioned...
@@livewire2759 yeah you re right
I have footage of a real-deal BOSS 429 from last year. The owner had finished the restoration the day before the race and hadn’t even completed a shakedown of the car. I’m not kidding at all. As you can imagine, the car didn’t run terrible quick because it had almost zero tuning. Everything was just out of the box. ~$500,000 car.
@@CarsAndZebras yeah you toldo me in the Mustang vídeo thanks for write me back again
PD i always watch your videos and leave a comment
@@matiacu3047 ah yes, that’s right. 👍
I friggin love firebirds. I have an 88 formula 5.0 with a 5 speed manual transmission and t-tops. Nowhere near as fast but fun to drive.
The 390 hp 427 had smaller cylinder heads. The big block Chevies had 2 sized heads. Smaller oval port and the large port hi-perf heads.
With the smaller port heads that Vette' will only be able to breath so much.
Bluebird is setup well. I was impressed with the top end charge of it. Considering that it's a smogger it was day lighting the Vette at the top end. With all due respect, in regards to the unbeatable vettes, I could name 6 cars off the top of my head that would be step for step or beat them.
If that vette was hardtop it would've been slightly fast enough to win. Especially first round
Amazing because by 1973 the compression was extremely low and had EGR and it was only the standard 455 not the super duty 455.
I always look at the mile per hour before the ET # as far as the math goes. Horsepower determines MPH. not ET. So in this case it with similar weight. I think the Firebird is underrated as hell
Ok, that fingernail on the chalkboard was uncalled for.
Pontiac needs a cam swap, bigger carb , reworked heads, bump up the timing. You’d have a monster.
I was not expecting the weight or that first win.
Remember HP numbers changed from gross to net in 72. Add 20% to be fair.
WTF are you talking about?? He VERY CLEARLY PUTS BOTH gross/net horsepower ratings on the screen. And to go from gross to net you have to REMOVE ~15%, not add.
Find a Corvette without side pipes. I've seen several tests here showing a loss of 25-40 horsepower depending on engine. I believe the chambered pipe is under 2 inches diameter. Plus I believe this race series allows increasing exhaust size. Don't know how you could do this with chambered pipes.
Both great cars! Such a cool video well done
1970 chevy LT1 350 fun fact..the corvette LT1 had 370 hp and the camaro had 360 hp,i think the differance was the carberator CFM size,i might be wrong
I had a 1974 Formula 455. Essentially, the same car with a TH400 and 3:42 gears - and, an uglier nose and rear :) That thing consistently ran a 13.5 in the quarter. Fun street car with just about every power option Pontiac had. I miss that one.
My two favorite cars - vettes and firebirds. Currently have a vette so......go VETTE!!!
Impressive day for the Pontiac.
These drivers are consistent, and seemingly getting everything out of their respective cars. Anybody know what car testing publications got from these cars in period?
It’s in the video description box
@@CarsAndZebras Oh, damn, I usually open those, but I didn't look! Cool!!!
Good race
These are actually pretty close to 100% stock. There are guys in L88 cars doing 120 mph traps in some of the stock classes which misleads people to believe that a Corvette in 1967 did 120 in the 1/4 off the showroom floor. Still a badass class though.
This was an interesting video! all the way around. Entertaining! I'm a Pontiac fan. I thought the Vette was going to spank the firebird! Very equal cars! Thanks for making this video!
As somebody who has raced Firebirds for 30+ years. I can't see a A/C car weighing 3562. My non A/C Firebird with aluminum wheels and aluminum intake weighed 3555 at the track.
I'm pretty sure the fastest car he's had on this on these videos is orange Corvette I think running in the 10.90s
That one is a L88 corvette and it can run quicker than what was showed. There will be faster cars in the future. 👍
@@CarsAndZebras yeah but these are supposed to be stock cars right?
no, that one races in FAST, which allow a lot of mods as long as it looks stock.
That year Firebird was a tough customer. I think the 400 cubic inch was the fastest of the bunch but I could be wrong.
Ideal conditions for racing
Let's be honest, once the emission laws came out GM put chevy under the spotlight. A pontiac 455 built right would stomp this.
They are vertualy the same speed because you can't judge this off of that two different people driving the cars
All three times shows the bird ahead, but I'll take the vette any day. Hats off to the bird.
Initially, I thought the Pontiac was poorly chosen to run against the Vette, boy was I wrong.
Surprisingly the smogbird held it’s own against a 427 Vette
What web site do you go to find out how many cars were made
No specific site, just a lot of digging and cross referencing.
@@CarsAndZebras I wish there was a web site for that
Probably have to give the edge to the vette due to the compression..
At it early again! 👍
Compression isn't everything, you need flow.
Higher compression goes well with racing gas, but it's not everything. The L36 was the bottom rung of the Corvette big block ladder, so even though it used 11 to 1 compression, it still had a fairly mild cam compared to the 427s above it.
The steel car has the weight advantage. Crazy
Frame way too heavy on the corvette
I owned a 76 455 4 speed and a 74 455 automatic, they were high 15 second cars at best!!
Read the rules for the series. They can do minor mods and adjustments.
@2nd Amendment You lucky dog, the Super Duty is the one I really wanted back in the day!
I fully expected the Vette to win.
350 300 HP is the stock low compression wiht a 4 barrel quadrajet used in pickup trucks called the LM-1 in the 1979 Era had 10.3 to 1 compression in 1970 .. lower compression in 72 by '73 qbout 8.2 compression ..