To be fair, you could do a lot with your mouse and compensate by being quicker. It's hardly enough of a disadvantage for most high-skill players to fight against Archons who are generally pretty slow to begin with. It's hard to say Archons have "execution", though Archons are in that bracket for different reasons which varies for each player. It's hard to believe anyone thought Immortals could lose without their keyboard.
@Jarryl Lim they didn't just beat them, they destroyed them. These were master grandmaster hero archons, and no keyboard is definitely a huge nerf, definitely not a complete disability but a crutch for sure.
@@hammloc its not like it isn't expected. Taking away keyboard isn't really a huge nerf. It only matters in similar bracket or a bracket below. I doubt they would lose to legends either and depending on the heroes they pick they have a very good chance against ancient as well. If it was ancient without keyboard vs archons the ancient would win as well.
You should get 10 immortals to coach 10 players. Coaches can only talk to their single player, but can help influence in game chat between the players by offering suggestions of things to say or call outs on certain timings, etc. See which immortal minds can offer the most edge through their minds and words alone.
Tbf they have played as a team together in the DPC, so their coordination is gonna be way better than some archons. I wanna see this again with 5 rando immortals and also maybe some bias with the draft to favour the lower ranked boys
@@bijadiwangagas7326 it's still without keyboard. And they also talked about bindings on a mouse bottons. When I was still playing I was using 4 shortcuts on my mouse
Each Immortal player need to spin a wheel and get randomly assigned a different disadvantage - things like (can't use courier for first 20 minutes, must hold a cup of tea in his left hand without spilling it for first 10 minutes, opponent decides on hero selection. etc.)
There is one big aspect here to be considered, which is the fact that these immortals know each other and play with and against each other a lot. I bet these 5 legends don't quite know each other that well, they just gathered to make this show match. The synergy is definitely on the immortal side, and no, it's not because they are higher rank.
I think mouse keys shouldn't be used either. I got to 4k and never used any so I'm guessing these guys weren't. So it was more like immortals with half a keyboard. Love the videos jenkins
It's funny what things people w/ 1000's of hours in this game learn when they take their keyboard away, like how there is a dedicated button for courier delivery lol
I guess this needed to be done to illustrate. To this day, still get people as teammates who fail to understand the very basics of a 2v2 (in any matchup, situation) that if you are not in position to counter what the enemy does they are doing it for free and you are throwing the game. Teamwork wins any game of dota about 80%+ of the time.
Yeah I think this matters even more in this new patch. I win so much game that when our team lose the first half of the game, then the others team make small throwing, and we always comeback from that. It's feel so good when it's not about just fast hand. Lol.
Most players my rank (which is below herald) only use mouse anyways. What you really have to do is get rid of the team chat, and then constantly try and guess what your team mates are doing.
This shows that the mechanical skill in dota is playing a small part. More important are the farming patterns, laning knowledge, what to click in which order when Y or X happens etc. These things are usually so ingrained the higher you go that they become like breathing.
The typical archon/legend game is usually you dominate your lane, you take the tower, you tell your lane partner your gonna go see what you can do elsewhere on the map only to arrive to them having a 4 level lead on you xD
Swear to god I left My lane as pos 4 batboi to go mid and the enemy arc warden was level 9 (I was lvl 4 offlaner lvl 5), watched the replay the sociopath was stacking our ancients as well as his own ancients and somehow killing them both
My first thought was this will be hard because they have to click on all the skills, but then I remembered that modern mice especially gaming mice have like 4+ extra buttons so if you map the skills on them as he did with the pause button it's almost no handicap at all.
Once i broke my arm and i couldnt use whole hand for 6 weeks. I actually bought a mouse with 12 buttons and even played tinker mouse only. Good old times
back in 2015 I broke my keyboard and I was 12 yo, so I had no money to buy a new one, so I spammed techies every game because it was the only hero you can play without keyboard successfully
with modern mouses that have like 5 more buttons, this is nothing burger. Even I would beat my fellow archons with those mouses. Literally, I would beat them.
The cluelessness is what makes Dota so enjoyable to watch in these videos. When Dota 2 came out and you were waiting 45-60 minutes for one game (I still have a screenshot on my steam, there were 13 people online in Europe max... now I remembered you had this "Samurai" lookin' avatar in the main menu fsr) And these times were awesome. Shadow Shaman with 3 boots of speed, Javelin, Shadow Blade and Drow with 6 slippers of agility for 30 minues... Man those days... don't let me start on DotA Allstars... every pub game was like that
But how is this fair? You guys are not even 10% handicapped. Everyone knows the ultimate Archon build is: -limit fps to 29 and turn on VSync -optical(led) mouse and no mouse pad -some old stereo speakers from the attic and open mic -a completely unreliable worn-down membrane keyboard that got handed down to you -have your mom in the background cooking dinner (3 minute instant ramen) and you can either have her scold you for the rest of the game or you can eat while you play -no dad Don't judge me.
@@jarryllsm ancient is not different from low immortal (6000-6500) so not a chance. And I bet they could lose to Archos too. One game doesn't really represent anything
I'm a Guardian who was very briefly Crusader and I could not tell you what order Archon, Legend, Ancient, and Divine are in unless I had just looked it up like right now.
where did u get the graph for the player rank. cuz it looks made up and when u check the data for rank players it is actually mor steady line until u get legends then it goes down on numbers rapidly
I remember playing go to one and never using hotkeys. I was literally the click king. Got to know the two and started to have to use hotkeys when I wanted to play in invoker. Got to rank 79 in immortal after learning pretty much every hero.
anyone who climbed his way through archon knows that those people easily get dominated by ppl who are not even using their keyboard. this video was no suprise
that would teach those archons players backseating immortal players on live stream or tournament, that they are playing on very high level, they don't need your 2-5k opinions, i hope this will teach other archon players too
loved this! Would also love to see something similar, the idea would be that the immortal team has 4 lives per player. Once you die 4 times you have to leave the game.
Perhaps the most eye opening dota video ever; proving that heralds are idiot savants, the average player cant put together a good team comp, and execution and game knowledge matters most.
I think what most people miss is they are not just immortal but high immortal. Hell, what's their MMR? Like 8k+? Surely its different that those 5k mmr immortal.
how does an ancient player go in on an sf get razed once then decide its time to turn around and line up the perfect 3x raze twice in a row against a guy he knows he to manually click each button???
what about you do archon world regions face each other each 5 games to see which region is best archon. coz maybe NA archons might be most noobs archon in the wrold
i remember when i was on team (not high mmr, some 5-5.5k awerage back 5 years ago, so i'd say around 6-6.5k now), i was captain and my PC broke, wasnt able to play for like two weeks. To not lose practice time, i played with my team on a tablet, with no external mouse or keyboard, was pos4 and played only SB for those two weeks, was actualy great fun :D (we had no important matches just practice). We had an excel where we scheduled practice time, and allways had some dote memes shared there, and for like a month or so there was photo of my tablet with dota turned on and "Pro DOTA setup" :D (becose we actualy had prety good winrate in those times for some random reasons)
Idea for the future: Try picking assuming you are gonna play that matchup, then after picks finished swap legends picks with immortal picks and play them with the assigned roles.
I ain't getting a pin
Oh hey, lemme use this opportunity to gain some likes
Well I definitely ain't getting a pin.. 😂
liar, liar, pants on fire
2:29 😂
i think this shows what a great game dota actually is, execution plays way smaller role than having an idea of what to do and what not to do
To be fair, you could do a lot with your mouse and compensate by being quicker. It's hardly enough of a disadvantage for most high-skill players to fight against Archons who are generally pretty slow to begin with.
It's hard to say Archons have "execution", though Archons are in that bracket for different reasons which varies for each player. It's hard to believe anyone thought Immortals could lose without their keyboard.
@@jarryllsm it's not only lose they got destroyed
@Jarryl Lim they didn't just beat them, they destroyed them. These were master grandmaster hero archons, and no keyboard is definitely a huge nerf, definitely not a complete disability but a crutch for sure.
SF hitting those triple raises in lane with no keyboard is god tier execution
@@hammloc its not like it isn't expected. Taking away keyboard isn't really a huge nerf. It only matters in similar bracket or a bracket below. I doubt they would lose to legends either and depending on the heroes they pick they have a very good chance against ancient as well. If it was ancient without keyboard vs archons the ancient would win as well.
“No keyboards allowed”
The dude with Razer Naga mouse: 😎
I was about to say, this would be cake for me, been using the naga for years. I have all my items bound to it.
You should get 10 immortals to coach 10 players. Coaches can only talk to their single player, but can help influence in game chat between the players by offering suggestions of things to say or call outs on certain timings, etc. See which immortal minds can offer the most edge through their minds and words alone.
cool idea
I + this
The 10 players must be heralds
Now do one where you play with laptop touchpad instead of mouse.
That's not so a bad.
@@sortileges5474it’s absolutely terrible if they wanna use my shitty thinkpad work laptop
Touchpad? I'll do you one better: Trackpoints (The rubber red dots)
@@KazSlacksOff Ah yes, the clits
JENKINNSS DO THIS
They lost without taking a single tower, thats brutal...
the difference between a top 1% is brutal
Yea hes saying this as if most of us wouldnt get smoked just like they did
Tbf they have played as a team together in the DPC, so their coordination is gonna be way better than some archons. I wanna see this again with 5 rando immortals and also maybe some bias with the draft to favour the lower ranked boys
What do you expect, not using a keyboard is hardly the end of the world.
@@justlikeyourfathersaid
Not really. . . this is the difference between them and the top 1% of the top 1%. Just being in the top 1% isn't that great.
I'd say Brew was a bad choice but Monkey clearly proved he is the GM on brew by being able to play like this without keyboard.
Love monkey !
monkeys goated
Brew is my favorite hero so i was suprised when i saw monkey pick him and played excelent without keyboard
it'd be way too easy if they all just picked right clickers lol
Brew and SF are a terrible choice to play without a keyboard, but somehow monkeys still destroyed on brew, and SF landed the razes
What a great match up 💀 (alternate title: bullying your average dota players)
You guys should play it with the World of warcraft 3rd person POV to give them a better chance
Now that's something I'd love to fucking see!
Bulldog won a game like that
@@filippetrula1234 but he is a GOD GAMER/DESTROYER OF WORLDS/250KG BEAST
@@clementine-2948 but he is also playing with megacucks 😂
I expected some 4head to pick Invoker for the luls.
It wouldn't be that hard with a little practice, just bind qwer to your mouse
@@filippetrula1234 using button on the mouse defeat the point of this experiment is it not ?
@@bijadiwangagas7326 it's still without keyboard. And they also talked about bindings on a mouse bottons. When I was still playing I was using 4 shortcuts on my mouse
Each Immortal player need to spin a wheel and get randomly assigned a different disadvantage - things like (can't use courier for first 20 minutes, must hold a cup of tea in his left hand without spilling it for first 10 minutes, opponent decides on hero selection. etc.)
Perfect example of strategy and game knowledge making so much more of a difference than mechanical skill
Even without keyboard the the Immortals have more mechanical skill than the low ranked people.
i think its only making em like 10% slower than they would be normally which aint that big of a deal in archon rank
the sf early game razes with the mouse just sick
ikr,it hits..damn that guy is too op
he bound his spells to his mouse buttons
@@hado33_ no he did not check replay
This shows the skill difference in many ways.
these guys have like 5k mmr more than those legend palyers
There is one big aspect here to be considered, which is the fact that these immortals know each other and play with and against each other a lot. I bet these 5 legends don't quite know each other that well, they just gathered to make this show match.
The synergy is definitely on the immortal side, and no, it's not because they are higher rank.
I think mouse keys shouldn't be used either. I got to 4k and never used any so I'm guessing these guys weren't. So it was more like immortals with half a keyboard. Love the videos jenkins
@@rickmorty917 hahahahahah
dude what are you saying? stop lying
@@rickmorty917copium overdose
Did you not bring BSJ along for this one because that's how he normally plays?
How is this not the top comment lol
Shots fired 😂
Great video jenkins, now do one with a tracking pen or a ball mouse
good idea
Or touchpad!
Or a controller 😂
@@Valarxx people play with touchpad its super doable
@@GildonUser ive seen a meepo and a invoker player who plays on a controller its quite easy actually
It's funny what things people w/ 1000's of hours in this game learn when they take their keyboard away, like how there is a dedicated button for courier delivery lol
yeah lol
"Can we pause the game?"
"We dont have a pause button bro" THATS when reality sets in
LOLOL
Now you know why RPG mice are great. Especially for one handed gamers.
I guess this needed to be done to illustrate. To this day, still get people as teammates who fail to understand the very basics of a 2v2 (in any matchup, situation) that if you are not in position to counter what the enemy does they are doing it for free and you are throwing the game. Teamwork wins any game of dota about 80%+ of the time.
Yeah I think this matters even more in this new patch. I win so much game that when our team lose the first half of the game, then the others team make small throwing, and we always comeback from that. It's feel so good when it's not about just fast hand. Lol.
Why didn't the no keyboard team use Invoker or a tinker or a meepo. That's what's I d love to see
classic jenkins video, no ending, no outro.. love it!
damn so the joke "let me connect my keyboard, guys" it's a real thing now xD
bro using only keyboard straight picked a brewmaster, thats how peak perfomance & confidence looks like
Next time: 5 crusaders vs 5 immortals (but they can only use controllers)
Most players my rank (which is below herald) only use mouse anyways. What you really have to do is get rid of the team chat, and then constantly try and guess what your team mates are doing.
That's not even a handicapp. That's how I normally play and just knowing what a person should do and reacting to what they do is enough. . .
This shows that the mechanical skill in dota is playing a small part. More important are the farming patterns, laning knowledge, what to click in which order when Y or X happens etc. These things are usually so ingrained the higher you go that they become like breathing.
Great work guys. Let's hope that every player in div 1 and 2 will be archon and you got yourself an international.
Yo Jenkins, can you make a herald TI? Get you 8 teams all heralds and make em fight
too many fake herald smurfs would infiltrate
That would be insane
The typical archon/legend game is usually you dominate your lane, you take the tower, you tell your lane partner your gonna go see what you can do elsewhere on the map only to arrive to them having a 4 level lead on you xD
Swear to god I left My lane as pos 4 batboi to go mid and the enemy arc warden was level 9 (I was lvl 4 offlaner lvl 5), watched the replay the sociopath was stacking our ancients as well as his own ancients and somehow killing them both
@@savapavlovic3956 damn, do you perhaps still have match id?
My first thought was this will be hard because they have to click on all the skills, but then I remembered that modern mice especially gaming mice have like 4+ extra buttons so if you map the skills on them as he did with the pause button it's almost no handicap at all.
I feel like that goes against the spirit of the rules. Next time standard mice with only left and right buttons.
Once i broke my arm and i couldnt use whole hand for 6 weeks. I actually bought a mouse with 12 buttons and even played tinker mouse only. Good old times
Least deranged tinker player
Haah the reply got more likes than the comment. You never see that
back in 2015 I broke my keyboard and I was 12 yo, so I had no money to buy a new one, so I spammed techies every game because it was the only hero you can play without keyboard successfully
@@koftli8997 this man is willing to do anything to play tinker, I wouldn't call him least deranged
Was it the fun hand?
now disconnect the mouse and use voice commands
lol
>human comedy
Its on discorde bro
Jenkins exploiting the working class of Dota players. Unbelievably based.
with modern mouses that have like 5 more buttons, this is nothing burger. Even I would beat my fellow archons with those mouses. Literally, I would beat them.
absolutely amazing video! my face always lights up when i see your videos on the youtube front page thanks!
"Can someone pause the game?"
"We dont have a pause button bro" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Literally no way would this ever be a fair fight lmao
Next time, do SEA archons. It would undoubtedly be more interesting.
4:52 how did you reselect your hero?
The cluelessness is what makes Dota so enjoyable to watch in these videos.
When Dota 2 came out and you were waiting 45-60 minutes for one game (I still have a screenshot on my steam, there were 13 people online in Europe max... now I remembered you had this "Samurai" lookin' avatar in the main menu fsr)
And these times were awesome.
Shadow Shaman with 3 boots of speed, Javelin, Shadow Blade and Drow with 6 slippers of agility for 30 minues...
Man those days... don't let me start on DotA Allstars... every pub game was like that
But how is this fair? You guys are not even 10% handicapped.
Everyone knows the ultimate Archon build is:
-limit fps to 29 and turn on VSync
-optical(led) mouse and no mouse pad
-some old stereo speakers from the attic and open mic
-a completely unreliable worn-down membrane keyboard that got handed down to you
-have your mom in the background cooking dinner (3 minute instant ramen) and you can either have her scold you for the rest of the game or you can eat while you play
-no dad
Don't judge me.
Great video Jenkins now do one only using touch screen 😂
i'm wondering how far upwards that works. Do you still win like this if your enemies were like ancient or divine?
Likely still if it's Ancient, but Divine might give them a run for their money or just destroy them.
High ancient might do it
@@jarryllsm ancient is not different from low immortal (6000-6500) so not a chance. And I bet they could lose to Archos too. One game doesn't really represent anything
@@ManOverboard They can do this a hundred times and archons won't ever reach double digits in wins.
@@TheAverageGuy616 words mean nothing in statistic you know
6:30 so happy when the Archons won the fight
I would love to also simultaneously watch your other hand tbh. See if it moves - tries to click buttons etc!
You can actually bind hotkeys to mouse scroll up and down in addition to mouse 4 and 5 and middle mouse buttons
i think it would take so much to get used to that it would complicate matters more than it would help
I use the scroll wheel to purchase my quick buy (down) and courier delivery (up)
No mouse next?
lmao this one would be incredibly hard
Feels really weird looking at the previous map now. Its so small lmaooo
You held this up so long, its on the "old" map LMAO
next match : sea vs europ?
Saw Jenkins removing his mousepad keyboard combo I was like but how is he gonna play now?
Force right click
I'm a Guardian who was very briefly Crusader and I could not tell you what order Archon, Legend, Ancient, and Divine are in unless I had just looked it up like right now.
Nightstalker unironically tried to turn and run, giving triple raze range. More than once.
With the release of Steam Deck, Valve integrated Joystick support for Dota 2 now. You guys should really try it next.
where did u get the graph for the player rank. cuz it looks made up and when u check the data for rank players it is actually mor steady line until u get legends then it goes down on numbers rapidly
You know, now I wana see, 5 Legends vs 5 Top 10 Immortal players
I remember playing go to one and never using hotkeys. I was literally the click king. Got to know the two and started to have to use hotkeys when I wanted to play in invoker. Got to rank 79 in immortal after learning pretty much every hero.
Nice, what keyboard are you using my man?
Monkeys is a madman playing a micro hero with just a mouse. Here I was thinking the old CAPS LOCK LEORIC Wraith King build.
wd has 5 thousand game or what?
Next time: 5 Heralds vs 5 inmortals (but they can't use their mouse)
How are they playing on the old map?
“Pause is on my mouse” yeah right 😂😂
"I can't cancel this f*ck! I can't cancel!"
I would really like to see maybe 10 games to have an idea on how better the immortals are, even with just mouse.
Id like to see a game with mirror heroes
"the average dota player is legend" makes me feel really bad about myself stuck in herald...
these "archons" are no way archon, herald or guardian at best.
all the crusader players i play against are way better then them.
What keyboard (make & model) is Jenkins (not) using?
anyone who climbed his way through archon knows that those people easily get dominated by ppl who are not even using their keyboard. this video was no suprise
You should make one where they can not use abilities, just right clicks. That may be more fair.
What keyboard does jen usr
Is this vid old cause the map different
The Most people fall in the Crusader range since the May Update, which, IMO, makes way more sense after all the recalibrates.
All the ability clickers out there think this is validation, but this is just a bubby diff.
Play Invoker with mouse only!
i am amazed by that SF hitting 3 raze while hitting in between
No way this is legend... Have you seen SEA Legends?
"let's disconnect our keyboards"
some dude with a logitech g502 binded everying on his mouse:👏👏
Sad game. Were the Archons in voice chat at all?
that would teach those archons players backseating immortal players on live stream or tournament, that they are playing on very high level, they don't need your 2-5k opinions, i hope this will teach other archon players too
wow what gifts
loved this! Would also love to see something similar, the idea would be that the immortal team has 4 lives per player. Once you die 4 times you have to leave the game.
Its same think.They have gaming mice with multiple buttons so I guess it is the same thing .
What patch is this?
Is this a re-run? I feel like I've seen this YT video before...
interesting how lack of control is beaten by communication
For the next challenge, Immortals will get keyboards, but not mouses.
Do it cowards.
how old is this clip
bro i dont know whats harder here, hitting Q's with pango, hitting razes or controlling every panda like a chad
Perhaps the most eye opening dota video ever; proving that heralds are idiot savants, the average player cant put together a good team comp, and execution and game knowledge matters most.
I think what most people miss is they are not just immortal but high immortal. Hell, what's their MMR? Like 8k+? Surely its different that those 5k mmr immortal.
that sf without keyboard so awesome skill calculation
Monkeys - giga chad. Still picks brew. Jenkins - picks two button bara XDD
how does an ancient player go in on an sf get razed once then decide its time to turn around and line up the perfect 3x raze twice in a row against a guy he knows he to manually click each button???
SF bound all the razes to his mouse?
what about you do archon world regions face each other each 5 games to see which region is best archon. coz maybe NA archons might be most noobs archon in the wrold
i remember when i was on team (not high mmr, some 5-5.5k awerage back 5 years ago, so i'd say around 6-6.5k now), i was captain and my PC broke, wasnt able to play for like two weeks. To not lose practice time, i played with my team on a tablet, with no external mouse or keyboard, was pos4 and played only SB for those two weeks, was actualy great fun :D (we had no important matches just practice). We had an excel where we scheduled practice time, and allways had some dote memes shared there, and for like a month or so there was photo of my tablet with dota turned on and "Pro DOTA setup" :D (becose we actualy had prety good winrate in those times for some random reasons)
Are you sure those are Legend Ranks? theyre like Heralds on your herald videos
Idea for the future: Try picking assuming you are gonna play that matchup, then after picks finished swap legends picks with immortal picks and play them with the assigned roles.