@@dr.jekyll2017 Codswallop. They "spent millions" doing the best they can to get around the emissions regs and end up with garbage fuelling, particularly at low revs. That's why modern bikes are jerky around town. Etc.
@@dr.jekyll2017 What's the "2 miles an hour faster" about? It's not about that. But then "sounds like your bike is a pos". Lol. Ok, you have issues apparently.
I’ve installed a number of power commanders and one flash tune kit. The flash tune is way less work to install but a bit more technical with the software. But I love the flash tune. The amount of control is amazing.
guys at velox helped me out with the full harness and qs kit w/ the auto tune after you made that video and im in love. much less work than the PC and alot more options. not to mention you can import PC fuel maps right to the software
Be very careful on the bike you use it with. They have bricked COUNTLESS sc77 honda ecu's and COUNTLESS kawasaki ecu's. Best performance comes from local shops unless you are just looking to correct some afr's
@joe joe theres more than enough videos out there already showing everything the FT has to offer within the software as well as install videos on the bike its self. Its how i made the decision in the first place lol
I've seen a hell of a lot of bikes with those power commanders and they almost all run super lean. They can be ALL OVER THE PLACE. My advise, get it flashed by a reputable shop and make sure its an unlocked tune so you don't have to go back to them if they mess it up. I got mine done at Moore Mafia and they did a great job.
@@AP-wu1rv No Moore Mafia is in Taylors, South Carolina. Just watch his TH-cam channel he shows a lot of videos on dynotuning a whole range of different bikes. Got my bikes ECU flashed by him and made a world of difference compared to no tune. Runs so much better and smoother and seems to be faster. You basically get a dyno tune for the price of a flashtune. Definitely recommend tuning with moore mafia if you plan on getting your bike tuned
Good video! One thing that was not properly mentioned is how easy it is to revert to stock with a power commander. You mentioned removing it which works but is not even needed. With a power commander all you need is to connect your laptop or even smartphone to your bike and change to any map (even stock) you want. You can even have 2 maps on it and add an external switch to change between them.
My favorite part of the ftecu kit on my FZ07 was lowering the fan temps. On slow rides on a hot day in a pack of running bikes, it helps keep the temps way down
You do a great job explaining things without the bs and excessive product placements. Myself I have a fair bit of experience, but just manage to confuse most people. Thank you for a direction to point people in for reliable easy to grasp information. Again. (-; Revzilla's stuff just keeps getting better.
ive watched a handfull of someone explaining whats the point of dyno tunes, ecu, and power commanders. adn thsi is the first one where I feel like I actually got to understand what was being talked about. the analogoly about glasses vs. lasik was gold
Hi guys. I had a k7 gsxr. Around 6 months after buying the bike was invited back to the garage in London where I had purchased my bike to meet the chef engineers about bike set up and help with R and D. Not sure if ECU's across the pond are different? But hear in the UK power commander's don't make a massive difference. In fact on this particular model the euc is already set up for this particular model. Was told by chief engineer from Japan not to waist money on a PC. As they are generally a con. Saying this did fit a power commander 4 to my honda sp1 which helped' smoother throttle control at lower revs. After re map a whopping 5hp. Goes to show a waist of £250 for 5hp. Smooth throttle control worth it. Like I say I know you're bikes are set up different and your cars because your emmission requirements are lower than ours.
Did you want to make a comment about booster plug? An ECU trick that makes the ECU think it's 20 degrees C colder than it is, subsequently putting more fuel into the motor?
What I'd like to see from Ari would be to take all the bikes Zac uses for Daily Rider on a ride through some faster twisty mountain highways comparing them more as a fun bike, separate from their daily use. To top that off, take them to a track and do a dozen hot laps and put them on a list for best lap, showing the fastest lap as a video ending.
TBH, the cost of EFI mods always makes me appreciate carburetors for their budget-friendly-ness. They can be fussy, and come with their own issues/learning curve. But you can re-tune carb(s) for $50, a shop manual (!) and some basic tools, and have $250-300 left for your other mods.
But you have to keep doing that. Once you reflash for the newer bikes they are generally set and forget if it's done right. And if you are in a decent community you can get collaborative help to make sure every setting is the way you want it.
PC5 doesn't do much. The O2 sensor in the stock system (closed loop) nullifies most of your fueling changes. Woolich Racing flash seems to best way to go, but it's close to $500 bucks. Send it to Moore Mafia.
Feel much better now, this video came out just in time!! I just mailed out my ECU for a flash, it’s middle of winter so I got all the time in the world lol Thank you Ari for the video!!
Cool vid man. There is alot of new riders that this will help because when I started alot of people were stingy with info which meant I cost myself some money and heartache but I eventually got it all lined out.
The optimal approach also depends upon the capabilities/design of the ECU. For example, the advanced ECU of the 2020+ BMW S1000RR/XR/R supports fully closed-loop operation and tuning (continuously takes readings from the exhaust sensors), which adapts dynamically to conditions (temp, humidity, altitude, etc.) and so you can get a flash that works for all bikes and configurations (e.g., exhaust and filter changes) of a particular model. Besides more delivering more/unrestricted power, they provide earlier exhaust-valve opening, better idle, faster QS shifts, rev limiter increases, etc. It costs most of $1000 but totally transforms the bike.
I am surprised that you didn't talk about TuneECU. You download (and can adjust) tunes, and the app (on your phone even), can perform diagnostics, calibrate the speedo, help sync throttle bodies, etx
Glad you stated the emissions stuff. Most bikes are good enough from the factory for most applications. The factory exhaust compliments emissions, noise, and performance. If you alter the exhaust you must alter everything else. Most the time the throttle feels more responsive but not a lot of horsepower can be gained. Next time just buy a more powerful bike from the factory. Less depreciation with OEM vs add ons later.
one point that wasn't covered is when it comes to selling the bike you can remove the power commander and sell it separately. a flashed ecu may make the bike easier to sell but not necessarily add value brilliant content. glad to see you guys are back 👍
Just wanna say, loving the feel of the PCV on my 16' ZX6R. Can tell the difference night and day and finding the tune was easy enough. Only chose the PCV over an equal flash because if I wanted to change my flashed settings, I'd have to remove the ECU everytime and have it sent out compare to just plugging the laptop in the garage to the PCV
That's why I bought the flash tune kit and did it myself, along with flash tunes Auto tune. It's been amazing, as many flashes as you want and helps dial everything in.
I had ECU flash on 1250 bandit bit of backfire from slip-on and air filter box mod cleaned it up nice and responsive down low pulls hard but still smooth and responsive very happy
ECU flashes are the way to go, but not all ECU flashes are created equal. Trying to squeeze as much power out of my 2020 R3 as possible, and after some research it’s pretty clear not all companies offer the same level of performance, skill, testing and development.
Flash are better for performance as you can remove all limiters. Most bikes doesn't give 100% gas then given 100% as ecu is limited. Power commander doesn't remove this limiters and usually just give 1-3hp and is mostly over 500$ for almost nothing. I would go for a full ecu flash with all limiters removed.
I also love how flashing the ECU is illegal, but in order to get a CORRECT speedometer readout, you must flash the ECU. Its literally illegal to have a correct speedometer readout so you CAN follow the law. But its legal to have an INCORRECT speedometer so you DONT know your real speed. Logical.
This was perfect timing Revzilla! I've been on the fence on whether to get a power commander or just get the flash on my R1 and now Ari drops this vid! Def think I'm going with the pro flash and mail it out. Especially now in NJ with all this damn snow my bike has a little bit of downtime unfortunately.
I've recently read that clearing the stock ecu's tune and using a Power Commander 5 with an Autotune is the best way to get the most power out of some bikes. The Autotune added to the PC 5 allows the tuner to give parameters for the PC 5 to keep the bike in when there are atmospheric changes. Fact is, not all bikes have O2 sensors, one of which is my 03 R1, therefore adding the O2 and Autotune seems to be the best for my situation.
@@TylerTron21 thanks for the explanation! So basically you compare the 2 maps to see if it has been flashed. If the bike was reflashed with a different map then reverted back to stock then we don't know if it has been reflashed before then?
@@TylerTron21 yes, i was wondering if it's similar to odometer tampering/reset. I guess another way is to bring the bike to a shop/dealer to get it checked
@@TylerTron21 i don't think many motorcycles have a date function so I don't think its possible to tell when it was done, or even if there is a mechanism in the code to keep track of that.
Nicely explained sir. As an aside, anyone noticed that long established models that are tweaked to Euro5 tune are returning poorer MPG than previous Euro tunes? Point being that making a bike use more fuel seems counter intuitive to emissions endeavours (California).
Actually, both are best. ECU flash removes all the restrictions. Piggy back modules will allow for live on the road/track tuning with real world air intake at real speeds. WSBK, MotoGP, and many other racing platforms have different tunes for different tracks. I would go as far as saying flash is superior.
@FailZero nope even worse Quebec Canada, 5 months of riding if you are lucky, 2200$ in plates a year, 1000$ for insurance and a cop on every corner to give out exhaust modded/flashers too small/missing reflector tickets. Basically if its not stock your looking at 500~600$ in thickets
@FailZero nah its been like this for over a decade. Way before trump, started with all the straight pipe bikes, too many peeps didn’t care about the noise they made, people started complaining about the noise so they started passing laws and its been downhill ever since. In all fairness i kinda understand the people who complained, im a bike guy and when 50 big cruisers would drive by it was just crazy, they drive by doing 50kph reving their bikes to turn heads.we only have 1/10 the population of the states so it doesn’t take a lot of complaints before it becomes a majority 🤷♂️
I'm here because a kid brought his 04 cbr954rr to the small motorcycle shop I work at because it doesn't run right. It's got a power commander in it. This is only the second fuel injected bike I've worked on and the other ran great.
I made a couple minor mods on both intake and exhaust of my FZ-07, but left the catalytic converter in place. I'm not a huge environmentalist but I do what I can... 😁 Initially, I planned to use the FTECU "on bike" harness with the Active Tune option (wideband O2 sensor) but the cost for this was over $700 plus welding a new bung in the exhaust, so I had a 3rd party (2WDW) flash my ECU instead. After several tries, it became painfully clear that the FTECU firmware was no longer using my stock O2 sensor under any conditions, and the engine ran chronically rich. I put a meter on the stock narrowband O2 sensor and saw it always output 1V (rich, not cycling as it should), and the exhaust smelled of hydrogen sulfide (rotten egg) which also indicates insufficient O2. I was told the stock O2 sensor was used, but my test data consistently refuted this claim so I ended up going back to the stock ECU. The moral of my story is that if you install a full exhaust (no cat), a flash tune is probably a good bet, but if you want to leave the cat in place, save your money and stick with the stock flash.
Great basics vid! Depends on the type of bike, pros & cons for each. For PC good if mods done Vs coming, & warranty. Piggy backs give you the option to continue to amend, start w/ pipes, but later add a cam, can change w/ no additional $. Also, new bike under warranty, if you have a piggy back & something goes wrong, you can go back to stock, flash is static & dealer may argue to void. Beyond the 2 options Ari mentions, Smart tuners w/ Autotune go further, sensing your elevation, temps, adjusting. & better than both a flash or PC, a true ECU replacement like a Thundermax Autotune. No piggyback, dyno tunable, larger O2 sensors than factory, then Autotune out of previous maps, revert back to old map at any time. V&H is simplistic Bluetooth option, quickly changeable in app, but limited, uses factory O2
Im considering a PowerCommander on my GSXR 600 because I dont trust local shops to do it since they are know of modding SQUIDs bikes who like to flames 🔥 coming out of the exhaust and the don’t really care about performance
When it works, FTecu stuff is great. When you face a bug or a cable issue, you're on your own, they'll never reply your questions or help you. Also infamous for "Oh your cable suddenly doesn't recognized your linked bike ECU? Yeah we changed the way they are identified. Please purchase another $99 license..."
@@AhmadAli-zj9wh it’s from the “Class of 2015” showdown on the Motorcyclist Magazine TH-cam channel. There isn’t a video of the crash to my knowledge, but they show the wheel and the marks left on the track. Link: th-cam.com/video/LPhCiaIxHk4/w-d-xo.html
I've been out the game for soo long . I remember jetting F2 ,gsxr and FZR's. You'd pretty much have to rejet at every track because of the atmosphere and elevation changes . Pain in the arse 🤭
I'll go tell my wife that we need a CBR600RR now that I understand the difference :o) As always, the clearest, no BS explanation on a topic in the shortest amount of time, free of crappy music overlay. Been following you from the beginning of my MC journey, glad to find you over here at Revzilla, Ari.
Had a dynojet piggyback module in my 2012 S1000RR that thing made me run on 2 out of 4 cylinders every 800-1000km's or so had to keep changing spark plugs and what not. Removed it in the end never ran smoother
Your needs and availability should dictate what you get. Power commander/RapidBike is by far the cheapest option for my bike. PCV 320$, RB evo 600$, Brentuning 800$ without import and other costs (was around 1000$ after everything). If the third option was not available, I would have probably just left it stock as I like my warranty. A piggyback is pretty visible, whereas a flash that you can revert back to stock whenever, is not, unless the ECU goes back to the bavarian mothership.
Here in Norway at least, the biggest difference is that if you install a power commander you keep your warranty (5 years on any bike sold in Norway). But you lose all warranty if you flash your ECU. An it takes a mechanic exactly 5 seconds to tell if you have had a flash done to your ECU. Anyone who tells you different is either miss informed or miss informing. If you buy a $20,000 bike. Why would you pay $200 to ruin the programing and lose the warranty as soon as you get it? Also, some bikes have more then one ECU that communicate different kinds of info between each other (For example the 2017 Kawasaki ZX10RR). When you flash one ECU, the other has a major freak out and stuff goes wrong quickly.
Just because a bike is expensive doesn't mean it's tuned to perfection for your riding style. A company's job is to sell bikes in as many markets they can. They don't care about optimal performance, and will limit certain features. You think Moto GP racers are running stock settings?
@@GuitarGuy650 There are no "stock" MotoGP bikes. They are built as 2 of a kind. End even the two are different from each other. But the biggest reason people use PC5 or a Flash is that the emission restrictions. They really make powerful bikes less powerfyll and more jerky. A Flash or a PC5 is absolutely a good idea to improve your bike. But, it also voids whatever warranty you may have laft.
I guess the most confusing part about power commander, is how do you know when do you have the optimal map? Does it give you read out that you can then study and adjust?, I just see everyone looking for premade maps, and what I’m trying to do that does not exist
Most people are just trying to keep their bike happy with a k and n air filter and a full exhaust. In which case a full dyno tune is a bit overkill and you can get by with trial and error, or finding a tune someone else made.
IANAL, but: Won't "Void your warranty". However, any damage that can be linked to the modification can therefore be considered "user error/abuse" which may or may not be covered by the warranty (it's at the discretion of the company, if you've spent 150k with them this year, they may very well suck it up on a 2k job... or not). See the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. DO NOT listen to a dealership that says it won't cover something because of mods done, talk to manufacturer's rep in the area, if it's enough money (and the dealer can't positively link it to the mods), talk to a lawyer. It is on the dealer/manufacturer to show that the modifications led to the failure. This is different from "service contracts" or "extended warranties" which expressly state that these products are not covered.
To be super clear, you either need to buy a specific Bench kit to run against a removed ECU (it includes a power supply for the ECU) , or you need to have a Windows Laptop (or a desktop inside a garage with a long ass USB extension) ... So think through how you're going to connect the computer to the ECU.
Nowadays Akrapovic and Termignoni if u buy their full system (Ducati Bikes) includes Air Filter and upmap. It isnt necessary Ecus, tons of cables and several hours of work on bike 😎.
So glad to see you and Zach doing what I loved with what used to be a stellar mag. That subscription renewal died long ago. Go Revzilla and screw Cali (govt side that is).
It's probably worth mentioning that one of the reasons an ECU reflash is worth doing is that most modern bikes-especially fly-by-wire bikes have abrupt throttle response. Flashing your ECU can fix that.
I have a 2019 z400 and i know i'm not going to get much more power. But there is no reason for a liquid cooled bike to be getting hot at a stop light. Why is it getting hot? The ECO factory setting have it running lean. The throttle is also way more snachy than a 400cc has any buissness beeing. My dirt bike has a smoother throttle. And this all with the factory pipe. I really need a tune.
One thing I've looked in to and been unable to find info on, is whether the stock lambda sensors on modern fuel injected bikes, can cater for an aftermarket full exhaust system with de-cat. I understand said sensors can adjust depending on environment the bike's working in, i.e. altitude as an excellent example. For me, a good article would be on whether the original lambda sensors are able to cater for new exhaust systems, end can and high performance air filter. Subsequently leading to adjustments being made by the ECU on new readings from said sensors. It's a bit of a minefield if I'm honest and I feel these aftermarket commanders are a massive money maker. - not that I'm against them in anyway. If there was some testing done with modern fuel injected bikes, say stock vs new exhaust system that would be extremely interesting to see how far you can take a stock set of sensors before a piggyback method or ECU flash is required. End of the day, piggyback modules and ECU flashes still use the same set of stock sensors, I imagine the main benefits from these types of tuning methods is to get rid of flat spots etc and to adjust the typically poor/snatchy throttle response of bikes which are set up to meet emissions regulations. - FYI, I'm no expert lol
I believe the flash is better BUT. (1) I lose my 3 year warranty, (2) I mostly just want smoother throttle response, stop the deceleration popping, and maybe run this bike a little cooler, im keeping it stock with stock mufflers and air filter, im apprehensive about sending my ecu out and just waiting ( Ivan's reflash) . Is it a waste of money to do both? Still not sure what to do, thank you for the info though, helped a lot to make a decision.
If, for example, you absolutely loved the R1. The looks, the sound, the handling but found it far too powerful, is it possible to detune the R1 where it makes 50% less power? Thank you.
Moore mafia reflash worked great on a 300 better throttle better idle cooler running even the exhaust sound got deeper well worth the money ..bought used ecu off eBay for flash tune kept original ecu if ever want to return to stock..but why stay stock..the used ecu and flash was cheaper than power commander..call Moore mafia
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What gives you more hp powercomander or reflash the stock one??
??? Who are they lol 😂 no one important
@@dr.jekyll2017 Codswallop. They "spent millions" doing the best they can to get around the emissions regs and end up with garbage fuelling, particularly at low revs. That's why modern bikes are jerky around town. Etc.
@Dr. Jekyll Most "idiots" find the worst effect of garbage oem fuelling in the first 10%. Catch up dude. Lol.
@@dr.jekyll2017 What's the "2 miles an hour faster" about? It's not about that. But then "sounds like your bike is a pos". Lol. Ok, you have issues apparently.
I’ve installed a number of power commanders and one flash tune kit. The flash tune is way less work to install but a bit more technical with the software. But I love the flash tune. The amount of control is amazing.
Yeah it's pretty remarkable what they can do with the software.
I'm gonna turn a wrench.....This makes me a CUSTOMIZEERRRR!!
guys at velox helped me out with the full harness and qs kit w/ the auto tune after you made that video and im in love. much less work than the PC and alot more options. not to mention you can import PC fuel maps right to the software
Be very careful on the bike you use it with. They have bricked COUNTLESS sc77 honda ecu's and COUNTLESS kawasaki ecu's.
Best performance comes from local shops unless you are just looking to correct some afr's
@joe joe theres more than enough videos out there already showing everything the FT has to offer within the software as well as install videos on the bike its self. Its how i made the decision in the first place lol
I've seen a hell of a lot of bikes with those power commanders and they almost all run super lean. They can be ALL OVER THE PLACE. My advise, get it flashed by a reputable shop and make sure its an unlocked tune so you don't have to go back to them if they mess it up. I got mine done at Moore Mafia and they did a great job.
I've seen bikes with them too. They don't seem to run or be any faster then a stock bike. Big waste of money to me.
I love Moore Mafia !!
That shop sounds familiar is that in Florida?
@@AP-wu1rv No Moore Mafia is in Taylors, South Carolina. Just watch his TH-cam channel he shows a lot of videos on dynotuning a whole range of different bikes.
Got my bikes ECU flashed by him and made a world of difference compared to no tune.
Runs so much better and smoother and seems to be faster. You basically get a dyno tune for the price of a flashtune.
Definitely recommend tuning with moore mafia if you plan on getting your bike tuned
+1 for Chris Moore.
Good video! One thing that was not properly mentioned is how easy it is to revert to stock with a power commander. You mentioned removing it which works but is not even needed. With a power commander all you need is to connect your laptop or even smartphone to your bike and change to any map (even stock) you want. You can even have 2 maps on it and add an external switch to change between them.
My favorite part of the ftecu kit on my FZ07 was lowering the fan temps. On slow rides on a hot day in a pack of running bikes, it helps keep the temps way down
Was it hard to tune it you’re self?
My thoughts exactly among others 😊
Glasses vs Lasik is the best analogy I've heard yet. Great video Ari.
Yeah, that concept really opened my eyes 😁
You do a great job explaining things without the bs and excessive product placements.
Myself I have a fair bit of experience, but just manage to confuse most people.
Thank you for a direction to point people in for reliable easy to grasp information. Again. (-;
Revzilla's stuff just keeps getting better.
ive watched a handfull of someone explaining whats the point of dyno tunes, ecu, and power commanders. adn thsi is the first one where I feel like I actually got to understand what was being talked about. the analogoly about glasses vs. lasik was gold
so glad this dude is still making videos, i was an avid fan of mc garage
Agree! Me too 👍🏻
Hi guys. I had a k7 gsxr. Around 6 months after buying the bike was invited back to the garage in London where I had purchased my bike to meet the chef engineers about bike set up and help with R and D. Not sure if ECU's across the pond are different? But hear in the UK power commander's don't make a massive difference. In fact on this particular model the euc is already set up for this particular model. Was told by chief engineer from Japan not to waist money on a PC. As they are generally a con. Saying this did fit a power commander 4 to my honda sp1 which helped' smoother throttle control at lower revs. After re map a whopping 5hp. Goes to show a waist of £250 for 5hp. Smooth throttle control worth it. Like I say I know you're bikes are set up different and your cars because your emmission requirements are lower than ours.
2:46 that's honestly the best way I've heard these two types of ecu tunes explained. Great job.
I'm glad it resonated with you!
Slick new set and overall production. Looking forward to many more episodes
Are you Haines of Haines Manuals fame? If so, your comment makes this episode Oscar-worthy.
Did you want to make a comment about booster plug? An ECU trick that makes the ECU think it's 20 degrees C colder than it is, subsequently putting more fuel into the motor?
Thanks! I'm really pleased with the new set.
@@batshitcrazymotorcycles7044 cxee
Nice to see you again Ari.
"Get Busy Living."
What I'd like to see from Ari would be to take all the bikes Zac uses for Daily Rider on a ride through some faster twisty mountain highways comparing them more as a fun bike, separate from their daily use. To top that off, take them to a track and do a dozen hot laps and put them on a list for best lap, showing the fastest lap as a video ending.
If you fart in california you broke emission laws 😂
But for some reason it's legal to take a shit on the sidewalk!!! WTF? HAHA!
Not if it’s done under a sheet and u rebreath it back in, as that’s basically what all these engines are doing.
You never been in europe😂😂🎉🎉
A comparison on benefits between the two would've been a huge help.
Power commander is the way to go especially if you want a quick shifter those will require power commanders.
@@angelcelis9090 no they don’t you can easily get a standalone quick shifter
@@angelcelis9090nope. Quickshifters can be used and installed on its own without power commanders.
TBH, the cost of EFI mods always makes me appreciate carburetors for their budget-friendly-ness. They can be fussy, and come with their own issues/learning curve. But you can re-tune carb(s) for $50, a shop manual (!) and some basic tools, and have $250-300 left for your other mods.
But you have to keep doing that. Once you reflash for the newer bikes they are generally set and forget if it's done right. And if you are in a decent community you can get collaborative help to make sure every setting is the way you want it.
@@grndzro777 not to mention that complete ease of mind of not having to worry about carbs and weather outside lol
Yall having alot of carb issues
LMAO carbs? It's not 1995 folks.
Real power is made in timing so ditch the carb, embrace FI and tune!
PC5 doesn't do much. The O2 sensor in the stock system (closed loop) nullifies most of your fueling changes. Woolich Racing flash seems to best way to go, but it's close to $500 bucks. Send it to Moore Mafia.
Feel much better now, this video came out just in time!! I just mailed out my ECU for a flash, it’s middle of winter so I got all the time in the world lol
Thank you Ari for the video!!
Where did u send urs too?
@@ChrisRon1k 2wheeldyno
@@SoloMCRider Thanks bro 💯
Cool vid man. There is alot of new riders that this will help because when I started alot of people were stingy with info which meant I cost myself some money and heartache but I eventually got it all lined out.
The optimal approach also depends upon the capabilities/design of the ECU. For example, the advanced ECU of the 2020+ BMW S1000RR/XR/R supports fully closed-loop operation and tuning (continuously takes readings from the exhaust sensors), which adapts dynamically to conditions (temp, humidity, altitude, etc.) and so you can get a flash that works for all bikes and configurations (e.g., exhaust and filter changes) of a particular model. Besides more delivering more/unrestricted power, they provide earlier exhaust-valve opening, better idle, faster QS shifts, rev limiter increases, etc. It costs most of $1000 but totally transforms the bike.
I am surprised that you didn't talk about TuneECU. You download (and can adjust) tunes, and the app (on your phone even), can perform diagnostics, calibrate the speedo, help sync throttle bodies, etx
How he explains the glasses vs lasik was really helpful..thanks
ECU reflash is the way to go
Glad you stated the emissions stuff. Most bikes are good enough from the factory for most applications. The factory exhaust compliments emissions, noise, and performance. If you alter the exhaust you must alter everything else. Most the time the throttle feels more responsive but not a lot of horsepower can be gained. Next time just buy a more powerful bike from the factory. Less depreciation with OEM vs add ons later.
You should add- Dynojet Power Commander can add on the 'autotune' box so the bike will tune itself at all times for the mods, elevation, weather.
one point that wasn't covered is when it comes to selling the bike you can remove the power commander and sell it separately.
a flashed ecu may make the bike easier to sell but not necessarily add value
brilliant content. glad to see you guys are back 👍
Love that you have an R6 as background with this topic 🤣🤣
Just wanna say, loving the feel of the PCV on my 16' ZX6R. Can tell the difference night and day and finding the tune was easy enough. Only chose the PCV over an equal flash because if I wanted to change my flashed settings, I'd have to remove the ECU everytime and have it sent out compare to just plugging the laptop in the garage to the PCV
That's why I bought the flash tune kit and did it myself, along with flash tunes Auto tune. It's been amazing, as many flashes as you want and helps dial everything in.
if the auto tune works then there should never need be another adjustment@@Apollo-Computers
@@unclealzbbq2185 it works amazing.
A professional re-flash is the way to go! It (which wasn’t mentioned) can be re-set to factory settings if required... 👍😎🇦🇺
True, you can always flash back to stock settings.
I had ECU flash on 1250 bandit bit of backfire from slip-on and air filter box mod cleaned it up nice and responsive down low pulls hard but still smooth and responsive very happy
2:22 amazing how they've developed so much and so well
I Trust Ari So Much that I would hand over the keys to any of my bikes With Zero Questions whatsoever....Thank god he's back on TH-cam!
Hmm, whatcha got in your garage Joshua?!?
please more content on re-flashing, tuning etc..
Vcyclenut flashed my fz09...best $250 I’ve ever spent
Hi Ari, good to see you back in a workshop! Greetings from Belgium!
ECU flashes are the way to go, but not all ECU flashes are created equal. Trying to squeeze as much power out of my 2020 R3 as possible, and after some research it’s pretty clear not all companies offer the same level of performance, skill, testing and development.
Definitely interested. Just got a GSX650F, and it surely is no monster. Sounds and rides great but I definitely want to bump up the 85hp.
Flash are better for performance as you can remove all limiters. Most bikes doesn't give 100% gas then given 100% as ecu is limited. Power commander doesn't remove this limiters and usually just give 1-3hp and is mostly over 500$ for almost nothing. I would go for a full ecu flash with all limiters removed.
I also love how flashing the ECU is illegal, but in order to get a CORRECT speedometer readout, you must flash the ECU.
Its literally illegal to have a correct speedometer readout so you CAN follow the law.
But its legal to have an INCORRECT speedometer so you DONT know your real speed.
Logical.
best bike channel on this planet maybe this universe
This was perfect timing Revzilla! I've been on the fence on whether to get a power commander or just get the flash on my R1 and now Ari drops this vid! Def think I'm going with the pro flash and mail it out. Especially now in NJ with all this damn snow my bike has a little bit of downtime unfortunately.
Especially with Yamahas, FlashTune is the way to go. They've spent a lot of time developing tunes for the R6 and R1 for racing and other applications.
Where do you recommend to send you ecu too I’m scared to send it in the mail an never see it again or have some one mess it up!, I have a (2007 r6)
I've recently read that clearing the stock ecu's tune and using a Power Commander 5 with an Autotune is the best way to get the most power out of some bikes. The Autotune added to the PC 5 allows the tuner to give parameters for the PC 5 to keep the bike in when there are atmospheric changes. Fact is, not all bikes have O2 sensors, one of which is my 03 R1, therefore adding the O2 and Autotune seems to be the best for my situation.
What I’ve been debating on doing. The ecu has the governor and has limited my auto tuner a bit so curious if that would help.
How can you tell if a used motorcycle has had its ECU reflashed? Does it leave a trace?
@@TylerTron21 thanks for the explanation! So basically you compare the 2 maps to see if it has been flashed. If the bike was reflashed with a different map then reverted back to stock then we don't know if it has been reflashed before then?
@@TylerTron21 yes, i was wondering if it's similar to odometer tampering/reset. I guess another way is to bring the bike to a shop/dealer to get it checked
@@TylerTron21 i don't think many motorcycles have a date function so I don't think its possible to tell when it was done, or even if there is a mechanism in the code to keep track of that.
Also almost everybody that does a ecu flash usually put there brand sticker on the ecu
Can you guys do a session on suspension adjustments? ei: going over rebound, compression and stuff and what each setting would do.
Just check out Dave moss tuning he can even do a remote tuning session for you based on your riding style
We just filmed a “Suspension Lingo 101” vid and will do more suspension vids in the future.
@@AriH211 music to my ears. Keep up the amazing content.
i would also suggest to watch Dave Moss tuning channel for more in depth info on suspension
How common is it to have both a flash and a power commander? Also what's the benefits/drawbacks?
Nicely explained sir. As an aside, anyone noticed that long established models that are tweaked to Euro5 tune are returning poorer MPG than previous Euro tunes? Point being that making a bike use more fuel seems counter intuitive to emissions endeavours (California).
We need a shop manual walk around
Ecu flashing is superior. Had both.
Actually, both are best. ECU flash removes all the restrictions. Piggy back modules will allow for live on the road/track tuning with real world air intake at real speeds. WSBK, MotoGP, and many other racing platforms have different tunes for different tracks. I would go as far as saying flash is superior.
I love how a custom tune increased my fuel mileage but yet it’s illegal
@FailZero nope even worse Quebec Canada, 5 months of riding if you are lucky, 2200$ in plates a year, 1000$ for insurance and a cop on every corner to give out exhaust modded/flashers too small/missing reflector tickets. Basically if its not stock your looking at 500~600$ in thickets
@FailZero nah its been like this for over a decade. Way before trump, started with all the straight pipe bikes, too many peeps didn’t care about the noise they made, people started complaining about the noise so they started passing laws and its been downhill ever since. In all fairness i kinda understand the people who complained, im a bike guy and when 50 big cruisers would drive by it was just crazy, they drive by doing 50kph reving their bikes to turn heads.we only have 1/10 the population of the states so it doesn’t take a lot of complaints before it becomes a majority 🤷♂️
Even though mileage is improved, it possibly worsened emissions. That said, if emissions improve, I don't see the problem.
@FailZero true!
@@TheStp77 WTF, is it really that bad?! Jesus haven't they got really criminals to harass and worry?
You can use a Dynojet tuner that isn’t permanently connected to the bike.
That's cool I did not know he had an identical twin. It's also cool that they have the same interests
Please ,keep on bringing episodes like these with ari
You got it!
I'm here because a kid brought his 04 cbr954rr to the small motorcycle shop I work at because it doesn't run right. It's got a power commander in it.
This is only the second fuel injected bike I've worked on and the other ran great.
That R6 though 😍
I made a couple minor mods on both intake and exhaust of my FZ-07, but left the catalytic converter in place. I'm not a huge environmentalist but I do what I can... 😁 Initially, I planned to use the FTECU "on bike" harness with the Active Tune option (wideband O2 sensor) but the cost for this was over $700 plus welding a new bung in the exhaust, so I had a 3rd party (2WDW) flash my ECU instead. After several tries, it became painfully clear that the FTECU firmware was no longer using my stock O2 sensor under any conditions, and the engine ran chronically rich. I put a meter on the stock narrowband O2 sensor and saw it always output 1V (rich, not cycling as it should), and the exhaust smelled of hydrogen sulfide (rotten egg) which also indicates insufficient O2. I was told the stock O2 sensor was used, but my test data consistently refuted this claim so I ended up going back to the stock ECU. The moral of my story is that if you install a full exhaust (no cat), a flash tune is probably a good bet, but if you want to leave the cat in place, save your money and stick with the stock flash.
Great basics vid! Depends on the type of bike, pros & cons for each. For PC good if mods done Vs coming, & warranty. Piggy backs give you the option to continue to amend, start w/ pipes, but later add a cam, can change w/ no additional $. Also, new bike under warranty, if you have a piggy back & something goes wrong, you can go back to stock, flash is static & dealer may argue to void. Beyond the 2 options Ari mentions, Smart tuners w/ Autotune go further, sensing your elevation, temps, adjusting. & better than both a flash or PC, a true ECU replacement like a Thundermax Autotune. No piggyback, dyno tunable, larger O2 sensors than factory, then Autotune out of previous maps, revert back to old map at any time. V&H is simplistic Bluetooth option, quickly changeable in app, but limited, uses factory O2
Power commander now has an add on auto tune, so you flash the PC for your tune and the auto tune adjusts fuel mapping for elevation/ etc.
Im considering a PowerCommander on my GSXR 600 because I dont trust local shops to do it since they are know of modding SQUIDs bikes who like to flames 🔥 coming out of the exhaust and the don’t really care about performance
Best motorcycle presenter in the business
When it works, FTecu stuff is great. When you face a bug or a cable issue, you're on your own, they'll never reply your questions or help you. Also infamous for "Oh your cable suddenly doesn't recognized your linked bike ECU? Yeah we changed the way they are identified. Please purchase another $99 license..."
Is that rim in the background from the time Zack highsided the zx10r when you guys were testing out the liter bike shoot out?!
I think it is!
It is! It's too mangled not to hold onto. We'll mount it on the wall eventually.
Link to the video please?
@@AhmadAli-zj9wh it’s from the “Class of 2015” showdown on the Motorcyclist Magazine TH-cam channel. There isn’t a video of the crash to my knowledge, but they show the wheel and the marks left on the track. Link: th-cam.com/video/LPhCiaIxHk4/w-d-xo.html
I've been out the game for soo long . I remember jetting F2 ,gsxr and FZR's. You'd pretty much have to rejet at every track because of the atmosphere and elevation changes . Pain in the arse 🤭
Especially on an inline four!
That is what fuel injection is for my friend.
Got a discount on 2wdw at christmas. Got my ecu back and still haven't been able to ride. Damn you winter!
I had 2wheel flash mine last year, I’m super happy and I’m sure you will be too.
Have you rode your bike yet ?
Your vids are super helpful and keep the spark going in motorcycling!
Went with DIY and bought Woolich with the logbox to measure AF ratios with a wideband sensor. Seems much better, but gas mileage has gone down. So...
I ride a 1090R. Don’t know that feeling of needing more power or faster throttle response, just switch to sport mode and go.
I got so excited...looked like an r1 in the thumbnail. I thought just Maybe someone unlocked the r1 ecu 🤦🏾♂️
I'll go tell my wife that we need a CBR600RR now that I understand the difference :o)
As always, the clearest, no BS explanation on a topic in the shortest amount of time, free of crappy music overlay. Been following you from the beginning of my MC journey, glad to find you over here at Revzilla, Ari.
California: "NO MORE FUN OF ANY KIND!"
Ari: "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"
Had a dynojet piggyback module in my 2012 S1000RR that thing made me run on 2 out of 4 cylinders every 800-1000km's or so had to keep changing spark plugs and what not. Removed it in the end never ran smoother
Your needs and availability should dictate what you get.
Power commander/RapidBike is by far the cheapest option for my bike.
PCV 320$, RB evo 600$, Brentuning 800$ without import and other costs (was around 1000$ after everything).
If the third option was not available, I would have probably just left it stock as I like my warranty.
A piggyback is pretty visible, whereas a flash that you can revert back to stock whenever, is not, unless the ECU goes back to the bavarian mothership.
Glad to see you back in front of a camera!
Here in Norway at least, the biggest difference is that if you install a power commander you keep your warranty (5 years on any bike sold in Norway). But you lose all warranty if you flash your ECU. An it takes a mechanic exactly 5 seconds to tell if you have had a flash done to your ECU. Anyone who tells you different is either miss informed or miss informing. If you buy a $20,000 bike. Why would you pay $200 to ruin the programing and lose the warranty as soon as you get it? Also, some bikes have more then one ECU that communicate different kinds of info between each other (For example the 2017 Kawasaki ZX10RR). When you flash one ECU, the other has a major freak out and stuff goes wrong quickly.
Just because a bike is expensive doesn't mean it's tuned to perfection for your riding style. A company's job is to sell bikes in as many markets they can. They don't care about optimal performance, and will limit certain features. You think Moto GP racers are running stock settings?
@@GuitarGuy650 There are no "stock" MotoGP bikes. They are built as 2 of a kind. End even the two are different from each other. But the biggest reason people use PC5 or a Flash is that the emission restrictions. They really make powerful bikes less powerfyll and more jerky. A Flash or a PC5 is absolutely a good idea to improve your bike. But, it also voids whatever warranty you may have laft.
I guess the most confusing part about power commander, is how do you know when do you have the optimal map? Does it give you read out that you can then study and adjust?, I just see everyone looking for premade maps, and what I’m trying to do that does not exist
Nice to see ya back on TH-cam Ari, long time no see.
Awesome new set. Can't wait to see more episodes - and I hope that we can expect them more often as well :)
Flash and dyno tune. IMO, it's by far the best way to get the most out of your bike.
Well ofc it is. But not everyone wants to pay to get a dyno tune.
Most people are just trying to keep their bike happy with a k and n air filter and a full exhaust. In which case a full dyno tune is a bit overkill and you can get by with trial and error, or finding a tune someone else made.
Great language and images. Looking forward to all new episodes of technical matters.
IANAL, but: Won't "Void your warranty". However, any damage that can be linked to the modification can therefore be considered "user error/abuse" which may or may not be covered by the warranty (it's at the discretion of the company, if you've spent 150k with them this year, they may very well suck it up on a 2k job... or not). See the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. DO NOT listen to a dealership that says it won't cover something because of mods done, talk to manufacturer's rep in the area, if it's enough money (and the dealer can't positively link it to the mods), talk to a lawyer. It is on the dealer/manufacturer to show that the modifications led to the failure. This is different from "service contracts" or "extended warranties" which expressly state that these products are not covered.
To be super clear, you either need to buy a specific Bench kit to run against a removed ECU (it includes a power supply for the ECU) , or you need to have a Windows Laptop (or a desktop inside a garage with a long ass USB extension) ... So think through how you're going to connect the computer to the ECU.
Nowadays Akrapovic and Termignoni if u buy their full system (Ducati Bikes) includes Air Filter and upmap. It isnt necessary Ecus, tons of cables and several hours of work on bike 😎.
So glad to see you and Zach doing what I loved with what used to be a stellar mag. That subscription renewal died long ago. Go Revzilla and screw Cali (govt side that is).
Brand new bike owners with warranty @4:57 this is highly recommended before getting your bike serviced. YOU'VE BEEN WARNED!
The end had me chuckling.
love thew new shop! hopefully this means we'll get a lot more videos from you!
Bauce all the way for flash tunes!
It's probably worth mentioning that one of the reasons an ECU reflash is worth doing is that most modern bikes-especially fly-by-wire bikes have abrupt throttle response. Flashing your ECU can fix that.
Great info Ari. Nice detailed breakdown of the two options and how they differ. What's your preferred option? 🤔🏍️
Will the power commander work if I already have a quick shifter that is already piggybacking of the coil pack?
I have a 2019 z400 and i know i'm not going to get much more power. But there is no reason for a liquid cooled bike to be getting hot at a stop light. Why is it getting hot? The ECO factory setting have it running lean. The throttle is also way more snachy than a 400cc has any buissness beeing. My dirt bike has a smoother throttle. And this all with the factory pipe. I really need a tune.
One thing I've looked in to and been unable to find info on, is whether the stock lambda sensors on modern fuel injected bikes, can cater for an aftermarket full exhaust system with de-cat. I understand said sensors can adjust depending on environment the bike's working in, i.e. altitude as an excellent example. For me, a good article would be on whether the original lambda sensors are able to cater for new exhaust systems, end can and high performance air filter. Subsequently leading to adjustments being made by the ECU on new readings from said sensors. It's a bit of a minefield if I'm honest and I feel these aftermarket commanders are a massive money maker. - not that I'm against them in anyway. If there was some testing done with modern fuel injected bikes, say stock vs new exhaust system that would be extremely interesting to see how far you can take a stock set of sensors before a piggyback method or ECU flash is required. End of the day, piggyback modules and ECU flashes still use the same set of stock sensors, I imagine the main benefits from these types of tuning methods is to get rid of flat spots etc and to adjust the typically poor/snatchy throttle response of bikes which are set up to meet emissions regulations. - FYI, I'm no expert lol
I believe the flash is better BUT. (1) I lose my 3 year warranty, (2) I mostly just want smoother throttle response, stop the deceleration popping, and maybe run this bike a little cooler, im keeping it stock with stock mufflers and air filter, im apprehensive about sending my ecu out and just waiting ( Ivan's reflash) . Is it a waste of money to do both? Still not sure what to do, thank you for the info though, helped a lot to make a decision.
Glad to see you made a full recovery! Love your videos.
If, for example, you absolutely loved the R1. The looks, the sound, the handling but found it far too powerful, is it possible to detune the R1 where it makes 50% less power? Thank you.
Buy a 400
Great to have you back, you always provide good information 👍
Moore mafia reflash worked great on a 300 better throttle better idle cooler running even the exhaust sound got deeper well worth the money ..bought used ecu off eBay for flash tune kept original ecu if ever want to return to stock..but why stay stock..the used ecu and flash was cheaper than power commander..call Moore mafia
I have a xtz1200 with a flash and a PCV. It runs great. Did I waste money by adding the PCV? Would Autotune do me any good?
Please make video for wire assembly for spoke wheel
If you guys read this i just want to ask this
Which one is better? Rapid bike or power commamder?
Hi! Will Revzilla do a video explaining Clutch coasting and how bad it is, if at all?