Starship Lore : Shuttles that shouldn't be able to Warp
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2024
- What's up Lore Masters,
Today I'll be breaking down the shuttles of star trek.. HOW FUN IS THAT..
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The Warp core is a POWER GENERATOR and not the FTL-System. It only generates the power to achieve warp speed. The warp-bubble is created trough the warp-coils in the neccels. So you don't need a warp core to achieve warp speed. The romulans are using micro singularities to create the power for their warp drive. Lore get your lore right.
I dispute your terminology. Rather than not needing a warp core, I think it should be considered a matter of it being possible to power warp cores with power sources other than M/Am. So M/Am, Singularity, Fusion, and probably even Battery warp cores should be possible.
It's semantics really. Warp core is a power source but also an engine, in the sense that it is a required component to achieve warp speeds. How the warp core works isn't that important.
So, Warp core = power generator at the heart of a warp drive system. Federation starships almost always use matter/antimatter annihilation reactors as their primary warp core.
There also was a way to rig a warp generator with things on board a starship if the warp core ever had to be ejected though this would only get you to warp 2 but it's better than nothing.
So the WARP core has nothing to do with WARP? kay
I thought the deflector was also neccesary for FTL travel, and general travel due to its ability to ''deflect'' matter, imagine a vessel traveling FTL Speeds without a deflector, it would be dead in the water, DEPENDANT on the fictional physics theories around the properties of faster than light travel.
Dilithium is used to stabilize the matter/anti-matter reaction inside a warp core. Warp cores are really mislabeled and where your confusion stems from. The warp core is really just a massive generator, powering the engines but not part of them.
Think of it in modern terms: if you pulled the nuclear reactor out of an aircraft carrier, you could replace it with an older steam engine and still have the ship move. It's the propellers, or in trek's case the warp nacelles, that ultimately move the ship and not the power source.
Thatd be a bloody slow ship then. Better add some hamster wheels!
To add to this, in my opinion shuttlecraft are relatively small and lightweight so fusion reactors are enough to get to low warp speeds for basic travel. Only a matter-antimatter reaction (or artificial singularity for ships like Romulan Warbirds) can energize the coils enough to propel a large capital ship unless you can refine the process further.
Evidence: the Krenim Weapon Ship was stated by Seven to be too massive to reach anything faster than Warp 6 while a stronger (if unethical) fuel source propelled the USS Equinox faster than originally designed. If you wished to remember "Threshold"; a more stable dilithium crystal helped get a shuttle's warp engine to achieve Warp 10+.
actually there was once a Star Trek Series planedd about an Enterprise wich just uses Fusionreactors, thank to this weak powersource this Enterprise would need Minutes to build up a warp field. memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(XCV_330)
Warp core, power transfer conduits, electro plasma conduits, intercoolers, warp coils and the plasma grille. All work together, with power conveyed to the coils, possibly to create a 'scalar' type field.
That is my understanding of how things work at the same time the plasma is used to sync the warp fields of the coils together if they aren't perfectly in sync they would interfere and collapse damaging the ship which is the reason you cant just add another M/AM reactor to increase the power of the ship at least as far as speed is concerned.
trekyards is right. warp fields are created by running super-heated plasma through warp coils, which for some reason creates a warp field. much like modern nuclear reactors a warp reactor is used in heating the plasma. 1:25 those red tubes on either side of the core a plasma conduits, which supplies the plasma to be super-heated by the reactor
Venom Geek Media 98 We approve this comment. LOL. 😉
Possibly it creates a superconducting effect, like with Cooper pairs, but even bigger, and then 'tunnel into' subspace.
@@Trekyardswebseries you should stream this so you can get some super chats😉🤣
The plasma isn't super heated, rather it is charged with the energy from the matter/anti-matter reaction. The red tubes that come off the reactor run aft and take the charged plasma to the nacelles and the ships power distribution network.
We also know there are other ways of generating a warp field, since Romulan Warbirds don't have a standard warp core, instead using a forced singularity for power, since apparently the Romulan admiralty felt that having a matter/antimatter reactor aboard their ships wasn't scary enough and decided having a black hole on their ship would properly scare the sh*t out of their engineers
All it requires is 1.21 gw and a flux capacitor..........
So all you're gonna need for power is small amount of plutonium, a bolt of Lightning, or Mr Fusion... you wouldn't necessarily need Antimatter...
@@capnahayes Isn't Mr Fusion a fusion reactor - like the ones these shuttles have? Haha :D
Great scott😊
Trek Yards are correct. You are wrong. The warp nacelles do the warp bit. So as long as you have enough juice, you can get warp.
That's right, I don't think lore knows trek back to back like most of us do he frequently makes these kinds of mistakes.
Even just a little research on his part would have done.
@ well the show is about consistent this "fake science" is so when he says there's an inconsistency and there really isn't that's not a just what ever. least to those of us who care about such things. We all know Star Trek is Science-fiction. and that the fiction part also includes much of the "Science" the various gadgets are that we couldn't really build today but when Lore claims their can't be an in-universe way for it to work And yet there is. that's what everyone is upset about not that there's no real science here.
You said shuttle should not warp!!!???
PLASMA+PSEUDOSCIENCE BINGO BANGO ADD GLOWING NACELLES...
There is nothing that federation engineers cant do!
Teach me about shuttlepods
Federation engineers are literally mages. They just can't bring their pointy hats to work.
They can turn rocks into replicators
There is this Fanfic comment selection on the internet about how the Federation are basically technophiles who don't even understand what they do. And basicaly this is now my head cannon as it's almost laughably how frequent the computer develops ai or half the senior staff gets teleported to a parallel universe and so on.
@@TheAsvarduilProject Now I'm just imagining Starfleet Engineers as a bunch of Discworld Wizards that lost their sense of humors and embraced Atheism.
Warps core produces high energy plasma that feeds int warp nacelles. Plasma then powers up warp coiled that, when energized, emit sub-space fields that create ripple in it, ""ship is holding the same place while the space around it is moving. That's why ships in warp has that stretched effect.. As far as I know :) If that is the case, I guess any kind of power source could power up warp coils and create warp bubble
Hell, the Romulans use a pet black hole.
I dimly remember some reference to the Borg using exotic matter of some kind to power everything.
A couple of car batteries ought to do it!
@@The_Lucent_Archangel
And we shall call him Fluffy; Fluffy the pet black hole! I’m gonna teach Fluffy to roll over, sit, and play dead. Good black hole! Just feed him a few stars and he’ll do anything you want.
it's been a long time since I watched it but in season 1 of DS9 (I think it was episode Q-Less) they created a warp field around the station using the fusion reactors. It didn't go to warp for obvious reasons but the warp field was there and they used it to move the station. I apologize if I got the episode name wrong.
Great video as always.
Lore,
The Star Fleet Technical Manuals for TOS and STNG and are pretty clear on generating warp fields and the use of dilithium. All it takes to generate a warp field is a plasma to be shot down the center of the warp coils. Let's not get into the whole peristaltic subspace field thing here. Where that plasma originates is up to the user. Your statement about warp cores being necessary only to generate the high energy for high warp factors is on the money and low warp capable ships do not need one. The small shuttles might be able to do just fine with a fusion reactor to produce the plasma. How Cochrane generated the plasma for the Phoenix was never explained, but he did it by tech the tech tech.
As to dilithium, the old references clearly state that early Earth warp capable ships did not use dilithium because, as you have stated, it did not occur on Earth. This limited the efficiency of the engines resulting in lower attainable warp factors. The function of the dilithium crystal was to optimize the matter-antimatter reaction products so that the resulting energy was tuned to frequencies that were better able to be used for the warp drive and other EPS loads. They got around the minor issue of the antimatter destroying the crystal by stating the the dilithium crystal structure allowed the antimatter to quantum mechanically tunnel through the crystal and void the whole annihilation thingy. I assume the tunneling somehow entangled the antimatter with the dilithium crystal structure and this is what allowed tuning the reaction products. This happened because the lattice strains forced some of the crystal into subspace. Again, tech the tech tech.
Considering that Cochrane built his ship from an old nuclear missile I think it can be safely assumed that he used a fission reactor to power his spacecraft. That's also why it took a while to go to warp.
@@johnrickard8512 I'm not quite sure, but I remember in Enterprise someone stated that the Phoenix had a fusion reactor. (but of course I could be wrong)
Fire is plasma. Does that mean we could just build a wood fire behind the bussard collectors to run at warp? 😁
@@keirfarnum6811 warp 0.04 - 8kph, speed of hot air ballons
Plasma run through warp coils makes the warp field. Plasma can come from multiple sources mArc is just a good power source to generate the plasma. Dilithium allows matter and antimatter to interact without requiring even more complex reactor chamber designs.
That's how I see it. The dilithium crystals have to be carefully aligned, so that the crystal structure creates paths that guarantee the matter and antimatter streams will meet and annihilate each other. Even a few atoms of antimatter impacting the reactor housing would have devastating consequences.
Wow... It almost sounds like someone made the design up without having a clue what they were talking about...
It also feels very much as if they do not have an internal collection of existing lore to check new stories for inconsistencies.
The way warp drive works is that the bubble is created by the nacelle and the driver coils, these are energized by a plasma stream, that a fusion reactor could create, a matter/ anti matter reaction is more energetic for larger ships. The Enterprise D had subspace driver coils inside the the impulse engines, at least per the technical manual which is mostly considered canon, to overcome its great mass by creating a weak warp bubble to aid impulse acceleration
Well, the TNG manual came close. I think Voyager may have ignored parts later.
Meh depends on what you consider warp it could just shunt to warp 0.5 at best. And fusion reactors can create plasma to put through the coils but it limits the operation time not in the distance.
A warp 0.5 limit would not be canon. At that speed, it would take years to travel between even neighboring star systems.
There is a book out there (which of course is of highly dubious canonness... like none, but regardless) that had Scotty state that you don't need the main power to achieve warp, and that fusion is all that is required, but obviously the M/AM reaction is so much more powerful that it is generally what is setup for it. And, if you think on it, this only makes sense as numerous times we've seen vessel with non-M/AM main power achieve warp, and even warp fields be establish with non M/AM power (Romalan warbirds for instance use a artificial singularity, and DS9 has done the warp field thing).
How are we going to move this rust bucket? "I have an idea. Generate a warp field and push it really hard."
Makes a lot of sense concerning the resources Cochrane originally had.
Yeah, what did Cochran actually use? It wasn't fission, right? Right?
They did just this in a Star Trek: Engineers book where they were trying to recover the old constitution Defiant from the Tholian spatial rift.
The variety of shuttles and small craft has always intrigued me in Trek, as civilian and private interests are so rarely shown.
7:20 For the same reason Enterprise and Columbia were able to both stay at warp sharing Columbia's warp field. The main ship's warp bubble keeps the shuttle at warp. Once it exits the bubble it drops out of ftl
I feel like this is pretty simple actually. The nacelles are filled with these things called Field Coils that, as the name suggests, generate a field. Theyre similar to the coils we use in many electric motors and transformers. Theoreticly, the power source doesn't matter. But the concept of loss is a factor. Most forms of energy we have extract very little energy from their mass. Antimatter however has a theoretical 100% energy conversion, hence why big ships and stations use it. All that in mind, if you had a reactor that could produce enough energy, a small enough craft, and a way to generate a warp shell, it should work.
Lore Reloaded, every time you say our lives are stories, I am reminded of the saying “We are all books of blood. When we’re opened, we’re red”.
If only every shuttle had Warf drive. Now we're really cooking.
If you saw the TNG movie you would know that Cochrane used the nuclear core of the nuke he modified as spaceship to create the plasma
If this reply is about the need for dilithium, I’m pretty sure trilthium is more abundant and could have been used to make dilthium with a bit of work and know how.
I haven't read the Enterprise D tech manual in a while but I remember it explaining the warp core like this: the dilithium mediates the M/A reaction by allowing the antimatter to flow through the dilithium without touching it. As the annihilation happens the resulting plasma is aimed at some sort of splitter which sends it down the plasma conduits toward the nacelles. The warp field happens when the plasma injectors squirts a bit of plasma on each field coil in sequence. The result is an warp field which propels the ship. I guess you could use fusion plasma to power the coils you just need a lot of it. That's my take..
Fun fact Cochranes ship was power by a fission reacter using the plutonium from a nuclear warhead. It provided enough power for its short warp flight. The power to cochranes graph from the tng tech manual showed up in a few episodes and therefore is canon. You can achieve the power needed for lower warp factors with non antimatter reactions. Dilithum is used just to regulate antimatter reaction but isnt fundamentally required. Early starships were fusion powered and had massive fuel consumption until antimatter reactors were developed before the Earth Romulan war.
I surprised you didn't mentioned the shuttle from tos
norcal prepper I don't think the shuttles in TOS had warp capabilities.
Except when the plot required it?
The TOS shuttle was shown to be warp capable in Galileo-7, Menagerie and Metamorphosis.
Matt Bell. figures
I personally would love to see you and trekyards discuss this further on a live stream. There's only one thing that gets me going more than the lore of Star Trek, and that is the technical stuff.
From Star Trek Monthly: "At one point during the writing of First Contact, the writers of the film considered what might power the matter-antimatter reaction chamber aboard the Phoenix, in lieu of dilithium crystals. Co-writer Ronald D. Moore later recalled, 'We had talked about it being from something modified from the thermonuclear warhead - that somehow setting off the fission reaction was what kicked it off. "
I love this sort of dry content mixed in with quips like "I mean you just change the settings on the PEZ dispensor after all".
DS9 is powered by a fusion reactor and other were able to generate a warp bubble to move the station from Bajor to the wormhole. Cochran's Pheonix may have used a a fusion reactor to generate its warp field as well since its doubtful he had a matter/antimatter reactor. Fusion reactors are a more realistic "near future" tech that could have become available to him. Also there are also many technologies that can create warp bubbles without even having "proper" nacelles:Klingon BoP, Delta Flyer,, Marquee ships/fighters (Peregrin class), Cardassian vessels and various alien vessels. I recall the lore years ago was that nacelles spread far apart created a faster ship but the closer the necelles were to the hull it was slower but being more compact granted better defensive sheilds for combat. Though "overpowered" , the Defiant would be a perfect example of this.
Off the cuff, I think that the "nacelles" themselves are what "pushes" the shuttles into warp. As far as I know from my own limited knowledge, the actual power output of those "fusion" reactors on the shuttles aren't clearly defined and vary per shuttle class. The only "shuttles" per se that have "micro" warp cores were the runabouts and the Delta Flyer (and probably the future shuttles that Admiral Janeway and the time traveling "cops" Aeon shuttles). Past the Archer era, they probably already are able to get more power out updated fusion tech. Even the Enterprise D can have "severly limited" warp capability off of their fusion reactors in a pinch. Warp cores are for warp speeds beyond Warp 6 with longer sustainability in warp. Back in the TOS days warp speeds practically went beyond warp 10 - it was only retconned during the TNG era going forward.
The Type 8 was made out of different materials so an Intrepid class ship could manufacture them with Replicators while on long range missions, which alleviated the need to carry seventeen spare shuttles.
And the Type 2 had the same intheater construction ability and modular upgradability on the GTI version.
Gonna have to side with Trekyards with this one. From my understanding of how warp drives in ‘Trek work, the warp coils in the nacelles are what actually generate the subspacr field rather than the matter/antimatter reaction in the warp core. Granted, from my understanding the plasma generated by the warp core is a special variety, so fusion reactors may not produce power of the right type still. However, some sort of power converter using dilithium could still work around that problem.
My personal head canon is that the warp nacelles generate the warp field. At energy levels achievable by fusion reactors, a ship can go at fairly low warp speeds. But, for higher warp speeds you need energies only achievable by antimatter reactions, (or by using artificial black holes for the Romulans.) It then became common for Star Fleet to refer to fusion reactors as "impulse power" and the antimatter reactors as "warp power" even though this wasn't absolutely correct. This explains the TOS Romulans only having impulse power. Their warbirds were warp capable but they were using something like fusion power and might could have managed warp 2, 3, or even 4 which is still a crawl compared to a ship that comfortably cruises at warp 6.
As I recall, impulse engines are actually a _particular_ _style_ of slower than light drive, which themselves are usually powered by fusion reactors (though they probably don't have to be). The TNG technical manual made some mention of the Enterprise-D having some warp technology incorporated into it's impulse engines, so it might be that the Romulans were doing something similar in TOS, but with higher resulting speeds.
A live stream on a variety of Trek and sci-fi topics sounds like a great idea, then the whole lot of us could all have a good yap together 👍
Cochrane used an old nuclear missile assembly to launch the first warp flight. It seems reasonable to me that it is possible, with some extreme difficulty, to achieve low-warp speeds using a nuclear reactor. That is to say, feeding a matter-antimatter reaction through dilithium crystals is not the only way to achieve a warp field. Case in point: warp-capable Romulan vessels utilize a forced quantum singularity. Cochrane likely found some other way to generate a small warp field using just a nuclear reactor. Whether said reactor was fission or fusion... I guess that's up to the viewer to imagine. The Vulcans, though, likely looked at Cochrane's design and thought "Yo dawg, u got some balls, cuz that's like hella dangerous. We gonna hook you up with some of these Dilithium crystals and teach you all bout matter and antimatter. We cool?"
Wait @LoreReloaded I see you trying to make sense of Star Trek logic again, but I hope you live long and prosper
A "warp core" is an antimatter reactor, a power generator. Warp coils are what create the "warp bubble" that propelled the ship. A "warp core" is akin to a nuclear reactor and warp coils are akin to propellers on a nuclear air craft carrier. You don't nessisarily need a nuclear reactor to power the propellers. You could use fuel oil, for example, to generate heat to generate steam to power the propellers just like you could use a fusion reactor to generate power for the warp coils but it would probably take a massive fusion reactor to match the output of a "warp core".
I love tuning in to these videos, so relaxing to watch and I feel like an engineer by the end of it!
Canon shows that you just need a reactor with enough power output. Wesley powered a Constellation starship to warp (albeit only for a second or so) with his fusion reactor science project. Romulans use an artificial singularity to generate the power for their warp drives.
Maybe Kirk’s prediction of warp engines the size of walnuts has become a reality.
I always thought the warp plasma shaped by the warp coils inside the warp necelles is what creates the warp field. How that plasma came to be, was needing energy. So fusion reaction as an energy source might just be enough. But then the warp core really is just a matter-anti-matter chamber, and the dilithium crystals are used to be some kind of lense that directs that energy to make warp plasma.
And if you have bigger ships, you need more warp plasma for more warp speed - let alone the ideas on how the warp coils need to be formed.
Interestingly enough, in First Contact we learn that some copper tubing is enough to function as a plasma conduit (Broccoli asked Geordi to have an excure to shake Cochrane's hand ;) )
The old TNG technical manual depicted the warp field being generated by directing a steam of plasma through a series of coils in the nacelles. There is a TNG episode that actually depicts part of this. If I remember correctly somebody was trying to kill themselves by jumping into the plasma stream.
That was Troy, yep.
I don think I need to mention how the Warpbubble is createt, but ripping apart spacetime takes a lot of energy, it´s like creating a Black Hole, but sustaining it also takes energy, because spacetime, like (probably) everything else wants to reach the lowest level of energy or in this case something like a flat plain (no Gravity). This effects Black Holes causing them to lose energy over time in form of radiation, this is called Hawking Radiation, to sustain a Warpbubble, it would also take energy, but much less than needed to create it and a small shuttle pod could sustain a Warpbubble with it´s Impulse Engines, that as far as I know work similar to a Warpdrive, but with a much weaker Warpfield, that just allowes the ship to reduce it´s mass. The saucer section of Galaxy Class ships can also use this tecnique to to travel at low Warp speeds after seperation.
To the Warpcore Part, I have heard some times, that the Warpcore is a part of the Warpdrive itself and is essentual for building up and sustaining the Warpbubble, especially in a TNG episode (I dont know the name) were Wesley is experimenting with a so called static-Warpbubble, that soaks up his mother. The center of the Warpbubble was the Warpcore, my first thaught was: Warum ist die Warpblase um den Warpkern herum aufgebaut, eine derartige Formation würde enorme Gezeitenkräfte auf das Schiff wirken lassen, ganz zu schweigen von den Teilen, die außerhalb sind ! Die Warpgondeln sollen die Gefar auf Abstand halten !
I guess I should tranlate this: Why is the Warpbubble build up around the Warpcore, this formation would let work enourmous tide forces on the ship, not metioning the parts, that are outside ! The warpnacellcs are holding the danger away ! I think that explains clearly, why the Warpcore can´t be more than an energy source, Star Trek explains many times, that the origin of the warpfield meaning the nacells has to be kept away from vulnerable parts of the ship, like the crew or THE WARPCORE WICH IS A VERY POWERFULL AND DANGEROUS MATTER-ANTIMATTER REACTOR.
The warpcore just needs to provide alot of super hot plasma , it doesn´t matter, if it is a fusion or a matter-antimatter reactor, but a fusion is less powerfull than a matter-antimatter reactor, but if he is powerfull enough a fusion warpcore can be a cheap alternativ to te conventional warpcore, because he doesn´t need Dilithium to function.
Warp bubble isn't generated by the "warp core", even if the name is a bit confusing.
The primary wrap bubble is generated by the warp coils in the nacelle. However, there's a number of occurrence where this is also done by a deflector dish. (Ex.: DS9, Voyager)
The source of energy to power up the coils is irrelevant.
Starfleet ships uses matter/antimatter as fuel. Cargo and shuttles uses fusion reactor.
DS9 used 2 fusion reactor to travel from Bajor to the wormhole.
Romulan used a contained micro-singularity (by probably making matter fall into it, having it slingshot around it and turned into relativistic plasma).
Cochrane used a refurbished "nuke" as source of power for the Phoenix, so it was "nuclear" powered.
Also, warp bubble doesn't make the ship move. They distort local space, but that alone doesn't make any motion occur.
The ship still need a basic physical push - given by impulse engine - in order to move.
The idea of a wrap bubble is that instead of travelling at 1 m/s in local speed, you're travelling 10 or 100 m/s due to space being compressed and stretched out.
TNG had stated at least once that the Type-15, by the reference to the nacelle projections as "impulse nacelles". Yet Geordi was traveling to Risa in one and Data absconded with one and got a considerable head start--the engine had been off roughly two hours when Riker's team beamed down--on the Enterprise after going through a Borg transwarp corridor.
Congrats on 40k.
For the Emperor.
Sorry, reflex action.
casbott Should he do some lore on Warhammer 40K to celebrate 40K subscribers?
@@messman10 Please don't. He's already got Trekkies badgering him about everything they disagree with in his vids. The man doesn't need a whole 'nother fanbase to contend with.
In the TNG episode., “Timescape,” they note that exposure to sped-up time caused the antimatter in one nacelle to be used up. They were in a larger shuttle or runabout, but it certainly had no warp core.
The implication was that shuttle nacelles contain their own supply of antimatter as an energy source for warp power.
Did Cochran's Phoenix have a m/am reactor in first contact? I don't think it did. Dilithium is only necessary to regulate the m/am reaction. The nacelles contain the warp coils that you need for ftl. My guess is that the m/am reactor is colloquially called the "warp core" because any ship that has one can't generate enough power without it to achieve warp speeds...
WRONG
The early Romulan ships (before the klingon/romulan alliance) were FUSION powered, and could achieve low warp speeds, however the klingons gave them several D7 class ships in a trade for their (a more primitive model) iconic cloaking device, thus giving them Antimatter warp cores... before they abandoned them for micro singularities.
Not only this but Cochrine achieved warp speed without Antimatter in the Phoenix, more than once in Next Gen we meet interstellar, warp capable species with "fusion power plants" and even the ancient bajorans broke the warp barrier with a solar sail powered "light ship".
Also i believe it's said more than once in DS9 that the Runabouts are fusion powered.
Antimatter is CERTAINLY not necessary for it. It's nice, and far more efficient, but not necessary.
Alpha canon episode ?
Sigh - well, it works as a retcon, since they had to have SOME warp capability. 'POWER' is simple impulse, as Scotty said.
Well that’s how real warp theory is, the ship doesn’t actually move it moves time and space around it yeah don’t ask me how someone call Nasa I fancy a nice trip round proxima anyone coming lol 😂
Also Romulan ships used a singularity as power source in the 24th century. IIRC this was mentioned on the TNG episode that introduced the Roundabout.
Yep. Presumably more modern, cutting edge tech.
Hmm... In a Voyager episode, Harry Kim and Torres quiz each other. and we learn that the Zephram Cochrane's ship had a chemically propelled warp drive. So... One fusion reaction would definitely be enough to do the trick.
Since no one else seems to have addressed the propulsion of the Phinix. Instead of a matter antimatter reaction chamber to produce the plasma, Cochrane used a plasma generator to supply the required energy to the warp driver coils. He also didn't use the same type of drive as later ships in Star Trek. He used a nested plasma drive field in the Phinix. Where as later ships used the more powerful subspace drive coils. That's part of why it took so long for them to hit warp speed. The plasma needed to heat up and form the nested fields.
Taken from Memory Alpha:
"Warp core is the common designation for the main energy reactor powering the propulsion system on warp-capable starships. During the 22nd century, warp reactors aboard NX-class starships were technically known as the "Gravimetric Field Displacement Manifold". A less common name for this core was antimatter reactor core."
From this description we can see that the "Warp Core" is just an extremely high powered reactor, it is in fact the Warp Coils in the nacelles which create the Warp field and allow FTL speeds.
There are two obscure pieces of canon information that will help you to understand this situation better.In Best of Both Worlds, Part 2. The Enterprise D is seen at Jupiter moving to intercept the Borg Cube headed to Earth which is under the command of Locutus. The specifically say they are dropping to impulse at this time and state it will be 29 minutes to intercept at Earth. If you use some math and assume that Jupiter and Earth are at their closest relative points, the Enterprise D has to be moving in excess of Warp 1. Most calculate around 1.7 - on impulse power!
In an episode of TOS called Balance of Terror, Scotty gives the technical engineering assessment of the Romulan Bird of Prey and states clearly that it has is simple Impulse Power. Because we can see that they are traveling across a vast distance - We have the map of the DMZ showing distances - we can only assume that somehow they can use impulse to exceed the speed of light by enough of a margin to make such a journey in a reasonable time.
Star Trek shuttles should work the same way.
Scotty says their power is simple impulse,I think he's actually saying the POWER PLANT is impulse ( fusion ). He never says they don't have warp drive, only they don't have a warp core.
Since this post is about warp capable shuttles a large enough fusion plant should be enough for a low warp stealth ship.
For the plasma you could have a large battery capacitor system for arming and trickle charge it in-between
From the script of the episode:
[Briefing room]
SPOCK: From the outpost's protective shield. Cast rodinium. This is the hardest substance known to our science.
(He crushes it with his hand)
SPOCK: Lab theorises an enveloping energy plasma forcing an implosion.
KIRK: Comments?
SPOCK: Obviously, their weaponry is superior to ours, and they have a practical invisibility screen.
MCCOY: You're discussing tactics. Do you realise what this really comes down to? Millions and millions of lives hanging on what this vessel does.
SPOCK: Or on what this vessel fails to do, Doctor.
KIRK: Yes, well gentlemen, the question still remains. Can we engage them with a reasonable possibility of victory?
SCOTT: No question. Their power is simple impulse.
KIRK: Meaning we can outrun them?
STILES: To be used in chasing them or retreating, sir?
This exchange on screen makes it quite clear that the impulse he is referring to relates to propulsion. There have only ever been three sources of energy mentioned on Star Trek; warp power, impulse power and battery power. These sources are distributed through the ship through the EPS conduits in the form of plasma.
@@cadengrace5466 still think I'm right.
And with that we'll agree to disagree.🙂
This debate will likely continue for sometime. TOS teased various non-warp propulsion systems at times, including the Sigma Draconian ship, didn't it?
From what I understand, early Starfleet ships were all fusion powered and had a limited top speed and range because of this. The fusion reactor burns a lot of deuterium to generate a warp field, while a M/AM reactor burns very little deuterium and some dilithium to generate the same amount of energy. Most ships use fusion reactors and fuel cells (big battery banks) as auxillary power systems, and to maintain the M/AM containment field while the M/AM reactor is "powered down"
Hey Lore, I see where your getting a bit confused and it used to confuse me too, however here's how I best understand it:
The warp core is the powerhouse of a starship, providing the energy from the matter-antimatter reaction. This is then utilised throughout the ship, but mainly to power up the warp coils within the nacelles to create a warp field via plasma conduits.
This in turn means that the warp coils are what creates the warp field, and not the warp core. Hence, it is simply a matter of power availability. If you can then achieve this power via another substitute (such as a fusion reactor) you can still achieve warp speeds.
The best analogy I can think of is petrol v LPG v deisel cars: all still have wheels, axel and run on an internal combustion engine, but achieve the combustion in slightly different ways.
I would be interested to know, however, if this is why shuttles may be limited in their warp speed capability due to the decreased power availability of a fusion reactor.
Also, as I understand it, no shuttle was "a precursor" to the runabouts, but that the runabouts were specifically designed to be upsized shuttles made to have a higher power output, shields, weapons, larger crew etc for longer duration missions than a shuttle could (or should) handle.
I know Trek made ships fit where they shouldn't but I can think of any alpha cannon where a runabout fit into any shuttlebay, but I could be wrong. However, it would make sense to have a ship sized somewhere between a shuttle and a starship (wouldn't you hate having to crew a 300+ officer starship just to deliver 10 people to a station... Oh, wait....)
As for the power source we have to remember that Romulans, in the TNG era, do not use matter-antimatter at all but use an artificial quantum singularity as their power source and warp drive. And in The Original Series I think it is hinted that they use a fusion drive.
I remember reading before Enterprise came out, that the early ships before and up to the Romulan War, we're Fusion Drive powered
In the beginning of the TOS episode, Spock mentions debris of fusion nacelles of an older ship.
You've got to do a Lore Reloaded on the rocks that appear any time a Starfleet vessel has explosions on the ship. Where do they come from? Are they installed in dry dock during the ship's assembly? Is it something that's added in during refits? Why did Voyager have so many rocks? How many crew members were killed by rocks in the decades of Trek?
One of the main reasons why warp plasma is a tradeable commodity is that it can be put into a vessels nacelles, energized and wham! Warp.
I can see the argument on the warp core vs fusion reactor. If forming a warp buddle around a ship is dependent on the power put into it a fusion plant might make sense, especially if the energy requirement per cubic meter of bubble doubles for every few cubic meters you add to it. Like you could get a skin cell sized warp bubble with a 9 volt battery, a lighter would take house current, and a car would take a conventional power plant.
The output for speed in warp is exponential (going from warp 1 to 2, or warp 7 to 8), so I'd have to argue that the input of energy (the opposite side of the equation) would require just as much power.
We are talking small sized shuttles going slower than most ships with a warp core.
Enjoyed the videos. I've been seeing trek for a while and had not paid attention to the different type of shuttles. Thanks
I find it interesting that the original shuttles were not armed. But *all* shuttles in TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT - and the Alternate Universe TOS movies (and probably DISCO) do.
Engineering and building the Phoenix presumably didn't include the creation of an anti-matter warp drive utilizing dilithium crystals. That's on the assumption that dilithium crystals weren't readily available on Earth as much ado was made about the amount of time and effort that went into scavenging the titanium required to build the cockpit, but less (none) was made with regards to the power source. The audience would fairly assume it was powered by a nuclear/fusion based source given that the Phoenix was built out of an ICBM nuclear missile in a nuclear missile silo.
A quick peek at Memory Alpha confirms:
"At one point during the writing of First Contact, the writers of the film considered what might power the matter-antimatter reaction chamber aboard the Phoenix, in lieu of dilithium crystals. Co-writer Ronald D. Moore later recalled, "We had talked about it being from something modified from the thermonuclear warhead - that somehow setting off the fission reaction was what kicked it off." (Star Trek Monthly issue 45, p. 46)"
Yup, warp is a matter of fields created by the nacelles, or rather the warp coils...since not all warp capable ships have nacelles, but they all have warp coils.
Warp core is a misnomer, as it's actually called the M/ARA (Matter/Antimatter Reaction Assembly). There are direct plasma conduits to the nacelles, but also EPS taps that power other ship systems. Fusion reactors may not provide enough power for more than the impulse engines (and the impulse engines ARE fusion reactors) on say, a Galaxy class, due to the mass of the ship...but on a small shuttle? Maybe. Especially since they're only supposed to be capable of warp 1 or 2 at most, for a short time.
The Type 7 shuttle was entered through a hatch in the bow, not the aft. Also FYI Warp Plasma is what is injected into the Warp Coils housed in the nacelle. The Electro plasma was transferred from the Warp core after being generated by the Matter antimatter reactor. The power generation part doesn't actually need to be a Matter/Antimatter power, and could come from Fusion generators.
According to Cmdr Tucker of NX01 Enterprise: a warp engine works by combining matter and antimatter regulated by dilithium chrystals. The plasma is routed to the warp coils in the nacelles creating a stable warp field. I just finished watching all the seasons of Star Trek Enterprise.
The Type-15 shuttles probably had so-called 'warp sustainer engines', like the Enterprise D's saucer section and Photon Torpedoes.
I feel like it makes sense to assume that the Type 7 was replaced with the Danube Class Runabout. Since the runabout sort of does everything the 7 does but bigger. perhaps? maybe.
I always thought the big thing that makes the Danube class different from the Type 7 shuttle was that the Danube was supposed modular, though we never see this done on screen. The back half, under the pylons and behind the door at the back of the cockpit, was suppose to be removable and you could attach different modules there or even tow smaller vessels by attaching them to the modular connector.
Don't remember if that's Alpha or Beta canon that but the Danube class is one of my favorite ships. Runabouts are way under rated in my opinion, Starfleet should have been sending big waves of small crews on Runabouts into the Gamma Quadrant once the Bajoran wormhole was discovered. Send in the bigger ships after to look into anything worthly note. Really survey the crap out if the place and then go for the interesting places.
That's right, per the DS9 manual.
I remember that modular thing. I often think about it whenever someone goes into the back of a runabout, and wonder if it looks the same as the one time we ever see back there, on TNG. And I also wonder if that modular thing is why all the cockpits changed and got bigger in later seasons. I suppose the modularity would be an upgraded feature and reason to replace the 7. My point is I think about runabouts a lot.
Replaced? No, but utilized when appropriate. Rubabouts size can be a detriment depending on the mission or what kind of resources u have at your disposal.
@Josh M evidence? And wtf dude u have the same initials as me. My names also josh....are u my doppleganger?
I love the Type 11 shuttle. It just looks so badass.
In ST:TOS shuttles were warp capable, but had a limited "fuel" supply. In The Galileo 7 we even saw Scotty draining hand phasers as a means of adding to the fuel supply. I would speculate that shuttle of that era (and the had phasers) employed containers of stored, charged plasma.
Dilithium meteor is what I'm going with pre-First Contact Cochrane. I really enjoyed my Type 6 toy as a kid.
My understanding is that it's the warp coils in the engine nacelles that create the subspace field, and you power them via electro-plasma which, if the warp bubble you wanted was small enough, a nuclear reactor could in theory provide enough power to do.
Additionally, I believe that the point of having warp coil assembly in an impulse engine is that the subspace field makes you lighter so less powerful thrusters can move you effectively.
Swamp gas, you saw swamp gas.
Fun fact for the type [toy], through some quirk of wri... er physics, photon torpedoes are also capable of sustaining warp if launched at warp despite having not having warp nacelles
I think you are correct about the fusion reactors on the Type 6 not having enough power to produce a warp field.
The type 15's "maintain a warp bubble" thing probablt uses principles similar to the torpedo/probe launcher, which is a railgun that uses a warp field instead of a magnet.
The way it's impulse nacelles are described, it sounds like it uses a weak warp field [warp 0.75, 750 millicochrane], as opposed to normal impulse which is somewhere between a fusion torch and an Ion engine.
The warp field is generated by the nacelles. U can run EPS power over them that's been generated by pretty much anything including Gilligan on a bike...the plasma is what interacts with the warp field coils in the nacelles and then creates the warp field. It's manipulated (i.e. speed) by how fast and how much plasma is being fed thru the coils. A fusion reactor could provide enough plasma for low-level warp flight. Faster speeds could be obtained in the runabout class through larger fusion reactors or a small warp core. Warp cores don't need to be huge, multi-decks high...just large enough to allow matter and antimatter streams to be combined in the dilithium chamber, where the plasma stream is tuned by the dilithium and channeled to the nacelles and main power grid thru the EPS power distribution system. Fusion generators can and do power the entire EPS system when the core is offline, however power is drastically reduced due to the much weaker fusion reaction as opposed to the matter/antimatter reaction.
Type 9 honestly looks more like a star fighter than a shuttle, I like it.
The matter / anti-matter reaction in Star Trek lore is used for power generation. It is the warp coils in the nacells which make the warp field.
The warp field is induced entirely by the warp coils, the mater antimater just produces ALOT of energy. The Pheonix just had a fusion reactor and romulans use a black hole for their warp cores.
I've always dreamed of having my own runabout or shuttlecraft from star trek that I could just put around the solar system in and visit different places while having a food replicator and small but comfortable living quarters.
ST: TNG S2:E20 - The Emissary opens with a class 8 probe travelling at warp 9. It is stated that a class 8 probe is just over 2m in length, so miniaturization of warp engines/warp field in some way does exist.
A thought just occurred to me. To the best of my knowledge, Star Trek was the first source ever to use the word "Shuttle" to describe a spacecraft. Only three or four years after the show debuted, NASA proposed the Space Shuttle. I used to work on the Space Shuttle, and this idea never came up, but did those who originally proposed it get the name from Star Trek?
They essentially made a warp field around DS9 that allowed them to "fly" the station to the worm hole... it doesn't have a warp core or dilithium chamber.
I was under the impression that the nacelles were responsible for the warp field, higher speeds just needed a MARC to get the necessary power and a bigger warp field.
The naming convention never made sense, but the "warp core" was always just the reactor that suppied power to the ship. Its the warp coils that create the warp field.
dear most commenters: He didn't meant that the Warpcore is creating the Warpfield. But i also watched it two times to understand it. He meant that an Warpfield (which is always created by Warpcoils and therefor Warp nacelles) can not only be powered by an Warp-reactor (Matter-Antimatter-reaction) but can also be powered through other means like for example Fusion cells which are used as secondary energy source on most starfleet ships or an singularity reactor like on romulan ships. And yes there are scenes in the show where an ship with an ejected Warpcore still travels through multiple systems in an acceptable time to get back to an starbase to replace its core. Those scenes imply that it is possible to achieve FTL speeds and therefor low warp speeds without the Warpcore. So i guess the fusion generators can produce enough energy to power the warpfield.
The Warp Core is called such because its primary function is to supply the power for the warp engines. If its primary job were to power the holodecks, it would be called the Holodeck Core.
Then again, a lot of sources refer to the core as the Matter/Antimatter Reaction Assembly, which consists of the injection coils for the matter and antimatter, the Matter/Antimatter Reaction Chamber, the Dilithium Articulation Frame (which can be slid in and out of the MARC), and the various other bits that work together to supply power to the engines. So, in essence, "Warp Core" is a form of slang for whatever provides the power to the warp engines.
According to Star Trek: TNG Technical Manual, the Enterprise-D's Saucer section had a Warp Capability up to Warp 1. It was based around driver coils in the saucer section's Impulse(Fusion) Drive. So I don't find it unreasonable that Shuttles could use similar setups.
The shuttles used to really annoy me as they were used so inconsistently. I can cope with suspending my disbelief but at least use them in a consistent manor lol
i read somewhere that ships before the NX class would be able to go into warp using only a fusion reactor. i also remember seeing an episode of voyager(i think) where the warp core was offline but they still managed a short warp "hop" using their fusion reactors (and turning off basically everything else up to and including the light inside the refrigerators, lol.
Always thought those things were so ugly , they look like they should have a big Chrysler emblem on the front of them.
I believe that in the novel Enterprise, it was stated that you could accomplish warp 2, TOS scale, without a matter/antimatter engine.
In TNG episodes (for example The Next Phase, Timescape, Face of the Enemy) it is established that the Romulans use artificial singularities rather than matter-antimatter reactors as their power source, and achieve warp speeds on warbirds comparable with the Enterprise
I saw bits and pieces of this scattered around the comments, but I'm feeling a need to lay it all out in one single post as clearly as possible, so here goes.
The Warp Core itself is... a glorified reactor. It takes matter and antimatter and annihilates them, releasing an enormous amount of energy. The dilithium crystals don't actually take part in the reaction itself, they simply act as a moderator, controlling the reaction and making it useful instead of just going boom. Federation Reactors specifically run on Deuterium and Anti-Deuterium. After the second battle of Chin'toka it's mentioned that Klingon ships run on Tritrium and Anti-Tritium (This is why they can make a tweak to become immune to the Breen Energy Draining weapon and the Feds can't.)
If I recall correctly, the reaction is run slightly matter-rich, the excess matter being turned into a high-energy plasma inside the warp core itself, known as 'Warp Plasma'. This high-energy plasma is run through the primary conduits out to the warp nacelles, where it's used to energize the warp coils contained within the nacelles. Thus energized, the coils are what creates the subspace warp field. It's actually theoretically possible to maintain warp for a short time after ejecting or shutting down the warp core if the nacelles are already energized, as it takes a bit for them to discharge.
Some of the Warp Plasma is also siphoned off and processed into a lower-energy form, which is distributed around the ship and used to power pretty much everything. This is the stuff that's running through the 'plasma conduits' that seem to be all over.
One key point is that realistically, the Warp Core isn't actually *generating* power so much as *releasing* it, extremely rapidly. So far as we can tell, Antimatter is not naturally occurring and has to be artificially created, and it takes insane amounts of power to generate. This handily explains why they have 'antimatter storage pods' and yet use the Bussard Ramscoops on the front of the nacelles to gather Deuterium. Deuterium is naturally occurring. Anti-deuterium is not.
In theory, any power source capable of energizing the warp coils sufficiently can power a warp drive... the matter/anti-matter warp cores are just the only practical method to put out enough power fast enough to generate a large, high-warp field.
Edit: I forgot. Another example of an extremely small warp drive... Photon Torpedoes have a 'warp sustainer' drive built in. It can't actually propel them to warp speeds but allows them to maintain warp speeds when launched by a ship already at warp.
@ Lore Reloaded -
The WARP nacelles contain the WARP coils that create the WARP field around the ship (supported by the main deflector dish).
Humanity´s first warp ship / the Phoenix ) had a fusion reactor.
Warp field is produced in the nacelles...not in the core. But the larger the vessel, the more energy is required to generate a large enough warp field (or bubble) and the faster you try to go, the more power is required. So it can make sense for a shuttle to have warp drive ( at lower speeds) using a fusion reactor.
I imagine that since a warp bubble is a sphere that the power load increases exponentially just as the volume does. The bubble on a ship the size of the Enterprise likely requires M/AM or singularity sources of power to maintain, much less push to higher warp speeds.
The shuttle, being a fraction the size, could therefore easily get by with just fusion.
Matter-Antimatter reactions (IRL) are fusion reactions.
A fusion reaction relies on the annihilation of matter to release energy. This occurs in the fusion of heavy H and He atoms by changing the resting mass of protons and neutrons within the nucleus - through altering particle "closeness." If you look up a table/graph of proton mass by element, you will see proton mass decreases from H to Fe.
The type seven shuttle has its door in the front, the thing in the back is not a hatch but a impulse engine that is easily removed for maintenance.
If the warp core, Dilithium and such would be needed to create a warp field, then Cochrane would never have been able to build the first warp ship. At his time he only had fusion reactors and Dilithium is a substance not existing on earth... The only point of a warp core is to create the extreme energies needed to create the warp field. The nacelles are what creates the field. To go into RealLife science here: the energy needed to create a warp field via an Alcubierre Warp Drive (the RL equivalent to the Cochrane Warp Drive) is estimated at about the energy output of Jupiter. The "easiest" way is to use matter/antimatter annihilation because it creates a vast amount of energy with a small amount of fuel (and no, that does technically not need Dilithium to work, Dilithium only makes it way easier to focus the energy beam resulting from the reaction), but a sufficiently large Fusion reactor or even a reeeeeeeally large fission reactor could provide that energy as well...