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Suggestion, you can do a recreation of the Hainan island incident, where a United States air Force P-3 Orion had collided with a People's Liberation Air Force J-8II.
Really great and well organized report, as usual! I like that you discuss the possibilities out there, without going conspiracy theory. RIP the victims and hope the families get closure. But, spending £ on an old accident, of a plane no longer flying, with no applicable safety improvements, is sadly unlikely. Calling all billionaires...
I used to fly in these Aer Lingus Viscounts from Bristol to Cork and back around 1968 and 1969. One time the bar and drinks had to be removed to get down to take off weight for the then shorter runway at Bristol. I was in the back row with the stewardess across the aisle. She was gripping the armrests so tight her knuckles were white. As we went down the runway, I thought “if she’s worried, maybe I should be too”. I’m amazed that one third of Viscounts failed in one way or another. That’s the key fact from a really well produced story, thank you. Now a subscriber, as my Viscount flights didn’t take me out 53 years ago… 😱
Your impression about Viscount losses is incorrect. Losses were due to many factors, of which structural or design issues was only one. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_the_Vickers_Viscount
@@bradsanders407 also, in the days most of the viscounts operated, it was not an unusual rate of losses.... especially for remoter routes. we see some of the converted classes actually lose all of the planes in the class to accidents... planes are expensive, in a ruined post-war Europe, or the newly freed colonies, you simply flew it until it failed.
I have to correct you regarding the Jindivik. It was never intended to be shot down; at a million Pounds each, that would be expensive. They were used to tow targets which we’re trailed behind the Jindivik; that is why they were painted orange and yellow to avoid being shot down. You may also note the Jindivik had a skid underneath its fuselage which allowed it to land back at its launch base and be reused. It was launched from a trailer which it detached itself from once airborne. They were indeed UAV’s and were occasionally lost.
@@scallopohare9431 The Drones were not operated by the Military, but by the Royal Aircraft Establishment. All of the Operators and support staff at Llanbedr were Civilian contractors or Civil Servants. They do not work on Sundays
@@richardvernon317 Well, yes, the Sunday bit is why I would rule that theory out. Not sure what info was provided about the group that shot down the drones. Military is the most likely, so that's what I went with.
@@scallopohare9431 Oh they totally are. Why spend a billion to buy 20 expensive planes when it can be used to buy 50 cheaper planes. And "military quality" basically means sourced from the cheapest contractor that just fulfills the requirements.
This one was worth the wait! Normally unsolved investigations and pre-digital flight recorder events are a bit of a let down, but you really made this really riveting! Amazing work as usual, C.
@@DisasterBreakdown Honestly? I suspect we'll never know. the idea that maybe part of the tail broke off is... plausible. It'd cause a massive loss of control, and explain how people saw something fall out of the sky. we can't prove it's the "right" explanation but it seems most likely. I do have to wonder about the breakup of the craft in general... it seems to have almost turned into confetti after hitting the water.
@@DisasterBreakdownI think the lighthouse keepers who were manning the Tuskar rock lighthouse at the time of the crash if they are still alive would be good witnesses.
“12,000 feet, descending, spinning rapidly.” Damn, this is the scary thing to hear from a plane as an ATC or a pilot of other aircraft. It feels like watching a horror movie.
People tend to communicate too little. A bit more detail would have been helpful. That flight from Colombia to NYC that kept asking for "priority" never really shouted "Hey! We're on FUMES here! Either we get down in five minutes or we crash land in someone's back yard!" (I think it was an Avianca flight - a few video have been made about it.)
@@davesmith5656 Yes that Avianca Flight 52 Chloe did before. Wonder has made a more detailed video about but Chloe makes it simple getting all detail elaborated in at least 15 minutes. In fact, Avianca Flight 52 cause was due to fuel starvation but it’s disputed who were at fault. Yes the pilots not giving enough detail and ATC not being able to discern the message. The same with American 965 which Chloe has also done before except vice versa. In fact, American Airlines for their South American routes gave their pilots special training but even that wasn’t enough although it wasn’t necessary. However, it was an added warning if you know what I’m saying.
@@RBMapleLeaf a similar accident happened at Portland International in 1979. The pilots ran the plane out of fuel trying to decide if the landing gear was down or not.
Excellent graphics . I lived in Wexford at that time and remember the incident so very well . I was 12 years old . My father , a doctor at the time had to review the few remains washed up on the beach . He never witnessed such carnage . I think it was due to horizontal stabiliser separation in flight or general structural weakness .
Speaking of the Vickers Viscount, my grandmother was supposed to be on one that crashed in Winton, Queensland. Ansett-ANA flight 149. It was an in-flight fire that led to the structural failure of the wing. From then on she used to say “chance it with Ansett.”
I noticed something totally extraordinary in this video - namely, in 11:52 there is another Viscount visible behind Lingus EI-AKL. This is PLL "LOT" SP-LVA, which also crashed after mid-air breakup overy Jeuk in Belgium at 20.08.1965. There were no passengers on board, but crew of 4 perished in disaster. And once again - I'm still impressed by quality of the episode. ;)
Congratulations on your longest video yet! I really enjoyed the small cinematics and chapter breakdowns of this format. Excited to hear that an even bigger project is in the works!
The Jindivik story is easily discredited - all training facilities were closed at the weekend. Even now RAF Valley (the fast jet training facility on Anglesey) is still closed at the weekend. Vicount's had an issue with their rear doors that opened outwards and were hinged on the rear - so that when the door failed, it would open get caught in the slipstream and fly open - to act like an airbrake, before tearing off and striking the horizontal stabilizer.
Hi thanks for comment.Did the door fall into the sea?If as you state that the rear door failed this would be something very major, and would the door warning lamp activate in the cockpit fuselage layout to inform the pilot. These lamps are centrally situated in the cockpit .Cheers.
@@jeromemccormick833 I'm not aware of the door being recovered - most of the wreck is still on the seabed. But Viscounts did also have problems with metal fatigue. But there had been incidents of the door opening due to latch failure and several Viscounts went crashed over sea.
@@jeromemccormick833 I think there was one accident with a Viscount and one of the doors opening in flight. Its in the report of the 2000 study. I think it was in India and the crew managed to land the aircraft, even though the door did strike at least one propellor and the stab.
I fly out of Cork Airport several times a year. The original terminal still sits next to the modern one, now used for airport logistics. It’s harrowing to think it’s the last place those poor souls visited. Maybe I’ll drop a flower there next time I pass by. For them, and for those lost on the runway as well.
@@DisasterBreakdown I like that they kept it, and made some use of it. Same in Dublin, if you’re taking a Ryanair Flight, you have to walk the long way to the other side of the terminal, and get to see the old terminal there too, and it’s in great conditon
This film was wonderfully constructed, but it revived a whole series of tropes that have endured for too many years. First thing to say is, this is a crash which left so little evidence in its wake. A commonplace for the time, there was next to no data for the flight in an era without GPS, and flight recorders being far from prevalent. Similarly, there was just a partial recovery of the wreckage. Put another way, there was.a vacuum of evidence which, inevitably, produced no end of conspiracy theories. So, let me just throw in some counters which will add greater context to the story. One is not to make too much of Aer Lingus being a state airline and to dispel notions of Soviet style cover ups to counter any loss of face. As it was, it was all but an independent company, and small at that. The loss of an aircraft was not a good look, but hardly such as would bring about national shame. Two, a missile strike. Had it been struck by a missile, it's failure, surely, would have been a much more instantaneous affair, whereas it is suggested the plane flew for a further thirty minutes, and made it into the water, all but intact. Three, I'd suggest aircraft of the Viscount era were structurally prone to fatigue. They were technically good aircraft, but, as was very clear in the Comet story, there was inadequate R&D into the stresses and strains being placed on fuselages of the era. A failing that fed also into the Trident programme. Surely the loss of 25% of all Viscounts produced, says as much. One only has to think of the vibrations created by four large turbo props, all of which would feed into the frame. I flew in one once from Luton to Dublin when Virgin started a service in the 1988 - great fun, but not the place to be if one had loose fillings. Four, and finally, for the Jindivik speculation to have any merit, you'd have to accept the idea of a drone being way off where it should have been; a missile being fired that would have been in contravention of the MOD's range boundaries; and testing taking place on a day which was, provably, not on schedule - a Sunday. All too believable if anyone knows of life in services where the Sunday Morning Service is a North Star of all regiments, followed by a decent roast nosh up in the Mess. Therein lies the folly of conspiracies. They are dependent on too many facts being out of kilter to what could otherwise be expected. Here's a link to the 2000 report which reviewed all the original evidence and found it to be in accord with the declared findings of 1968. www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/files/report-attachments/03.Tuskar_AAIU_REVIEW_2000_Report_No2000-003.pdf The full truth of flight EI-AOM will probably never be known and maybe it's time to let the victims rest in peace. May their souls, and all the souls of the faithful departed, rest in peace.
Scrolling all the way down for comments like this. While video is interesting and well executed, poor maintenance with some material or design flaw's is probably the root cause here.
Thank you for your perspectives and conclusions - I agree with the probability of a structural failure. I often flew on Viscounts and they liked to shake and rattle a lot…
What a complex and intriguing story. Unfortunately, there are still more questions than clear answers. I watched a documentary about Pan Am Flight 7 around 3 weeks ago and from my point of view many details between those 2 accidents are very similar like for example delaying the investigation and dropping relevant proofs and pieces of information to maybe hide something uncomfortable for the airline itself. We would never know. Congrats on your longest video so far!
Likely never happened. The eyewitness statements of almost 50 people contradict the findings of the 1970 report. The Viscount never reached FL170 or FL120 for that matter. It was in trouble after only 10 minutes into the flight. The much later report in 2002 explains how the accident probably happened to more than 90% certainty.
A very mysterious accident... I hope one day the answers will be found. Thoughts and feelings go out to those families who lost loved ones that day. Exceptional presentation as always, Chloe!
The general feeling in Cork was that a missile was involved. The suggestion by UK ATC to take a shorter route always seemed strange and something not mentioned on the video was that the flight was delayed and crossing the Irish sea later than the times given to the military. The failure of the navy to locate the wreckage also added to the theory. Even if any of this was true, there has never been a suggestion that it was anything other than an unfortunate accident.
@@Mary-wo5ln If Airbus built a car, it would have 2 steering wheels and 2 sets of pedals. You would never give your mother inlaw a ride again. Joking aside, the airbus fly by wire system as well designed, incorporating many safety measures to avoid overstressing the limits of the aircraft design. However, if the captain wants to take over, he needs to tell the other pilot to release the controls. If not, the poor computer is averaging 3 sets of commands, with fairly obvious results. The other pilot can completely take over, by holding a button down for about 10 seconds, but in an emergency, that seems like an eternity. Most airlines using Airbus, instruct the pilot monitoring to only use verbal advice to the pilot flying and only take over if the pilot flying is incapacitated. Unfortunately, the importance of this often gets missed out in training Being separate, the controls also give redundancy if one set fail for any reason, but the other pilot needs to know to hold his button down for 10 seconds. Their is a video of the time when a pilots camera slid from alongside his seat and jammed his sidestick.
I've loved your other videos (your voice/accent is so soothing to me, as an American!) but this was really fascinating. Despite watching a bunch of air incident videos over the years I've never heard much about this particular crash and this was very comprehensive, with some beautiful landscape shots in addition to the more technical stuff. Great work and can't wait for next week!
I always thought this accident was likely to be structural failure, for perspective I was a AD technician in the RAF and worked on Bloodhound Mk 2 missiles in the early 80s, so this accident was well known at Aberporth Range. In the couple of years I worked on Bloodhounds we used to take a missile to Aberporth once a year after it had been stripped to the airframe and rebuilt with brand new everything at huge expense. These were "firing rounds" and used to impress on the brass that they were valid weapons - in fact the operational missiles rotting on launchers mostly in Norfolk would likely have disintegrated on launch if we ever had to shoot them off in anger they were all so old. We did shoot the firing rounds into Cardigan Bay at a target drone which flew North to South at the optimum altitude of FL20 to ensure we had the best chance of hitting the things, of the two I was involved with fireing one hit the target and the other missed but crashed into the sea seconds later - an ill advised low level target attempt. Like you say in the video NOTAMs were issued, radio broadcasts were done, radar sweeps were done by RAF and RN vessels and all sorts of safety protocols were met before we fired the drone let alone the missile, I have no reason to believe that precautions in 1968 were any less thorough the technology used then had hardly changed at all by 1983/4. The point I want to make is that if it was a stray round then for a start upwards of 150 people would have known about it and you cannot keep that quiet, plus the Viscount would have been shredded. The Bloodhound was a big missile with a big warhead designed to take out huge bombers, it had proximity radar trigger (fuse) and the warhead itself was wrapped with steel rods like concrete rebar the entire thing moving at mach 2.5 so when it went bang it filled the sky with a rapidly expanding ring of steel and shreds everything in seconds. The Sunday thing, yeah that's true enough but not because the military did not play on a Sunday it was the Welsh law in those days right up into the 90s I think, nothing opened and nobody worked because it was the Lords Day and folk still held to that stuff back then. Great video I "enjoyed" it, never thought I would see this one come up so well done and good research.
Thank you for your comment, which clarifies my understanding of what these missiles were designed to do. Similarly, the Buk missile which downed the Air Malaysia flight, complete and instant destruction of the aircraft. My dad worked for Ferranti at that time who made the electronics for the Bloodhound, but as a practicing Quaker he kept well clear of the weaponry aspects. He did provide a major upgrade to Shannon’s international air traffic system around 1965 which was something useful for air safety.
Firing Angle out of Aberporth for the mighty Mutt was around 330 degrees out of the launch point. You must have been involved with either the 1981 or May 82 firings as the dedicated Bloodhound Firing unit was shut down in 1982. kit from West Raynham was deployed there in 86 to do the last firings (4 RAF and 2 Swiss). Both the Swiss missiles worked perfectly, three of the four RAF missiles failed. The last RAF missile was a Rust bucket and it did break up in boost.
@@richardvernon317 yep it was early 80s I was there May 82 sounds right because I went on a T88/89 radar course shortly after the test firings and spent the summer in Nottingham. By early 1983 I was at Benbecula working for FS Binnie who was famous for his ferocity dealing with young airmen. 40 years ago now and my failing memory is not what it was 8-) Uou were at West Raynham too - I was in Fakenham motorcycle touring a couple of years back did not recognise the place at all Raynham is a housing estate now and on the West coast Locking seems to have vanished off the face of the earth.
I am so thrilled by the effort that you put into this one. And whether the longest video in your TH-cam career turns out to be Malaysia Airlines Berhad Flight 370 or some other epic aviation disaster story, I hope I'll be there to see it. Keep up the good work Chloe! As for Aer Lingus Flight 712, there is a quote from another TH-camr, Rob Gavagan that perfectly sums this story up. "You may not believe it, but anything is possible in a world so seriously strange."
I really look forward to your new videos appearing, because they are so well put together and the narration is so good. I can understand how frustrated the relatives and friends of the doomed passengers must be, with no answers and no closure - especially after working on the report for 2 years. They must have reasonably expected something more revealing to come out of it.
I’m extremely proud of you Chloe! goosebumps throughout. Growth in your production qualities abound. It’s hard to say you’ve grown a huge amount because your content was beautifully produced and written from the very beginning. Much love and appreciation for your work ❤
Thank you fr that analysis. I was particularly interested because I knew the F/O Paul Hefferman because we trained together at AST Perth in 1965-6 In the video you also alluded to an Aer Lingus Viscount training accident. The two trainees were also co-students at AST. I could also give you more information on why they were doing their instrument training on a Viscount and not on a Cessna 310 at AST.
@@francovance1 Frank, I cannot remember an Ed Hill. The Aer Lingus course of which Paul was a member were a few months ahead of our course and we did not mix very much with them although we ate with them etc. Maybe Ed was a member of that course, but I have forgotten, or was on an even earlier course and left before we arrived. Geoff
@@gnicholson4231 Thank you Geoff, Ed was twenty odd years my senior, both from the same village in Co Waterford, he often entertained me with tales from his time in Perth with names like Ernie Holmes and Fats Hamilton and others which I've sadly forgotten. Keep well. Frank.
I love the hard work you put in all the videos you've done that I've seen so far. I've been a subscriber for probably a year the narration is superb, keep up the great work Chloe.😀😀😀
Ahh, right near where my family lives in Ireland! It is still very much on the minds of people there to this day. Bad events that are forgotten-about or left behind in other countries are held very dear in Ireland, sometimes.
In late 1968 or early 1969 as a new employee of the Marconi company in Chelmsford, UK, I briefly conversed with a colleague who had just come back from a visit to an RAF base in Wales. He made mention of a drone which had been lost control of in a maintenance exercise on the Sunday in question in March of 1968. This "drone" might very well be the "Jindivik" you describe. At that time there was no suggestion that this "incident" was in any way connected with Aer Lingus 712. The drone just got lost - end of story. It was only much later that the possibility that the two events might have been connected. Such connection was never made publicly. If there is a connection then I suspect that the matter is buried under official secrecy.
Great video and I like the meticulous avoidance of unqualified speculation. Another crash of the Viscount was the MacRobertson Miller Airlines flight 1750 Viscount on approach to Port Hedland, Western Australia in December 1968, involving 26 fatalities. I believe a wing failed catastrophically and this was subsequently determined to have been caused by the common practice of using a forklift to dismount engines for service, as in your video on American Airlines Flight 191. Might be a worthwhile subject if you haven’t already looked? Subscribed! 👍🏻
It should also be noted that the tailplane is not a wing. It doesn't hole the tail up, it pushes the tail down. So the loss if the tail plane will not result un a pitch up, it will result in a rather volent pitch down. There is a film of a Mosquito testing the skip bomb, preparing for the dam busters raid. The bomb hits the water and water splashing up hits the tail of the plane. The wings bend down violently almost breaking before the plane hits the water.
This is absolutely *fascinating.* Excellent video! Although I don't personally believe the Viscount was shot down, the Jindavik (sp?) collision theory is certainly interesting, although highly unlikely. I have to figure that this is a crash caused by poor maintenance on a too-old plane. Tragic that the families never got the answers they deserve, or the closure.
Fun fact about Irish aviation: Ryanair has had only one incident, involving a collision with a bird. They have the best track record in Europe, while also making a frankly ridiculous 2800+ flights per day as of 2022. This is all on top of being a notoriously VERY budget airline. Its a bit of an anomaly when it comes to commercial aviation.
To say the Viscount was old in 1968 is a bit strange. Only 20 since the first, and for the 800 series involved in the crash, around 10 at that time which is not particularly old for an airframe. It's the maintaining of it rather than age anyway. The crash of the CV580 mentioned and referring to it as old at the time takes me to mention that a fleet of these were operated in New Zealand by Air Chathams until being retired last year, the aircraft being almost 70 years old. They were still giving reliable service, however, getting parts was becoming a problem.
Not only are these the best airline disaster videos out there (that includes comparing to Mayday), but your narration is like unintentional ASMR. Please keep doing what you're doing!
I had never heard of this accident though I was then in service at Lajes Field, Azores, Portugal and received only partial news information. Obviously there is reason to suspect a horizontal stablizer and elevator separation as a probably cause of this accident. But unless there was another similar accident of this piece there is only speculation as to whether it played a role in this accident. Since no military activities were taking place that weekend that sort of obsolves that as a possibility. Dispite long standing differences with the UK the Brits would have had a professional attitude toward this accident as it was a British aircraft involved. The science of undersea search efforts which has played a critical role in solving accidents might well have been far more limited at the time and depth of wreckage could have been a strong inhibitor. Very well done!
But there WERE other similar accidents involving Viscounts. So it is not just "speculation". This was all revealed in the 2002 investigation. The report is online.
I am leaning toward metal fatigue and loss of the stabilizer. Metal fatigue was not well understood in the 60's. As to answers lying on the sea floor, there won't be any today. After almost 60 years, time and the sea will have erased any answers anyone may seek.
When maintenance records can't be found, ships logs don't add up, and expert salvors first fail to locate wreckage, and then drop it back in the sea after it was located for them, there is a lot that stinks, and it isn't fish.
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I looked at this accident, in detail, several years ago. It seems probable the aircraft suffered an elevator failure as this could've induced the sudden, violent spin. The Viscount would've been further damaged by the spin itself (consistent with the rapid lost of altitude). It is quite possibly the right-hand elevator control surface became partially detached during the spin or simply become inoperative. The assumption here is that the pilots regained control but were unable to correct the nose down pitch owing to lack of elevator control authority. To explain this, it helps to know that most aircraft counterbalance the lift of the main wings with downward force coming from the tail surfaces - typically this makes for a more stable aircraft. But if the elevators both fail the aircraft will likely enter a severe nose dive. If one elevator fails or the trim tab fails, the aircraft may enter a spin condition. Spin correction usually starts with rudder control (opposite lock) and a nose down pitch. The aileron on the stalled wing is likely useless until the stall condition is alleviated and pulling back on the stick would certainly worsen the stall condition. It sounds as if the pilots did recover the aircraft from the spin but were unable to correct the nose down pitch. Loss of the trim-tab can have a surprisingly dramatic effect during certain parts of a typical flight, but a sudden entry into a spin, as a result, is improbable while at cruise. As for impact with another aircraft (UAV) or missile: while these possibilities have a non-zero probability, the chances of such a collision seem remote compared to the likelihood of mechanical failure. It would be a remarkable strike indeed that 'only' damaged the elevator so this seems a stretch to me. In general the British do not lob active missiles around or fly UAVs at altitudes used by commercial airliners. In addition, before such tests, spotter aircraft are invariably on-site both as observers and to ensure no aerial incursions during such tests. Finally, it would be common practice for the armed forces to issue a civilian notification (NOTAM) for such a test (as you noted in the video) and to establish an exclusion zone. There was no such exclusion zone in effect that day and, in addition, no civilian record of same. A cover-up would be almost impossible and the repercussions of such a cover-up, should it be detected, would be catastrophic. Aircraft back in the 40's, 50's and 60's were inevitably not as safe as modern types which have the benefit of decades of hard-won experience, greater reliability, rising standards and more advanced redundancy designs. Even so, the Viscount was a generally very safe aircraft and not prone to in-flight failures of critical control surfaces. Either way, a terrible loss of life and I really wish more had been done to uncover the root-cause. Thanks for this well-considered video!
Hi David, thanks for your overview and especially for your interesting thoughts on let's say the Tail Area.I'm only interested in publically available documentation at the moment with which I use to form my comments.At this stage I know an awful lot all about The Tuskar Aircrash and everybody involved.Can I send you some more detail later ,thats if you agree to allow me to do so.Cheers and thanks, from Jerome.
Very reasonable and intelligen post. Thank you. You might also find the report from the 2nd (independent) investigation around 2002 which is available online. A lot of what you wrote would concur with their findings.
My grandparents moved from Ireland to England in the 50’s, they used to fly home to Ireland on Aer Lingus viscounts, grandad used to say that they were shonky old aircraft, he called the airline Aer Fungus
As an American I find it unbelievable that military exercises would be conducted in such a crowded area as the Irish Sea. American air and missile exercises take place in remote desert areas far, far from civilian settlement or activities. Pretty crowded continent ya got there, I guess.
There are not many remote desert areas in the UK, so most live aircraft firings take place on beaches or out at sea. [Edit] This comment was not intended to be as sarcastic as it sounds on re-reading.
@@Mary-wo5ln Because Ireland is on the other side of the Irish sea, where the range is located. www.milfordmarina.com/media/1143/cardigan_bay_danger_area.jpg?width=425.1798561151079&height=500
You always keep one-upping yourself! Excellent video yet again. My guess is icing? Mid March, North Atlantic region, rapidly descending spiral with partial regaining of control at low altitude. The rapid descent could lead to inflight breakup of some components resulting in witness claims of objects falling into the sea. I wonder just what the weather conditions were…🤔
Cork is very southerly and average temperatures for that time of year would not have been below 5 degrees, so icing was unlikely to have been an issue on the ground. Meanwhile the average ceiling for the aircraft was 25,000ft, I believe. No likely conditions then for icing of the wings to have been a problem.
Icing is out of the question. The weather reports for that day elliminate icing at Cork and the aircraft only made it to FL 070 with only partial clouds.
Lead investigator being the one who certified the plane's airworthiness is all you need to know to be certain that no actual investigation was done. The only thing he was leading was the sweeping under the rug.
The truth was found in 2002. You can read the investigation report. Its available online. In short - loss of control leading to part failure leading to structural failure = crash. For 30 years the real cause was covered up by a smokescreen of "mystery" which suited certain people who had something to loose if the truth came out.
Thank you this. A very interesting video on an enduring mystery. Well presented and very thorough. I live in Dublin, on the east coast. I didn't realise that so much of the wreckage had been found. There were always rumours that the British navy or Air force were implicated but it does seem like it might have been an accident.
The British authorities have consistently denied any military actions/exercises were in progress at the time - however, to quote Bismarck: "I never believe anything until it's been officially denied". Having said that, several aircraft of that vintage had ongoing issues/failures in terms of engines / fuel transfer valves. Just sayin'.
There was another Viscount accident in 1965, which killed the pilots and 2 on the round. It was a repositioning flight from the IOM to Liverpool's, then Speke airport. The plane overshot the runway while attempting to land and crashed in to a mothball factory, just across the road from Speke. I've never seen that accident covered. Again it was pre-digital age so not much is know about the reasons for the accident.
I bloody love your videos! I discovered you two weeks ago and have been binging hardcore. The only problem is that I'm running out of videos. Thanks for providing such incredible, high-quality content! By the way - What's that gorgeous piece of music that you play in the 'wind-down' part at the end of each video? It's so beautiful.
Great breakdown! Thanks DB! With fear of being shot down, but in the spirit of proper pronunciation; Ll makes the sound Cl in Welsh. So Clanbedr not Lanbedr. :)
I worked at Llanbedr from 1962 to March 1967. We worked Monday to Friday. It is not surprising that a fishing boat would bring up parts of a Jindivik, considering how many ended up in the Irish Sea. Same goes for the Meteor drones. I do remember the incident where a Jindivik hit a car, with occupants, but that's another story.
From what I remember this plane did have problems with corrosion in the lower sector of the rear bulkhead. Water would collect there because it could not effectively drain away, eventually corroding out the bulkhead. This caused the bulkhead to burst causing explosive decompression, leading to failure of the empennage. Inspections did not reveal any visual signs of corrosion, because that part was difficult to see, being covered by a sealant.
I don't think I've ever seen a video on this accident; it's something lost to time, I suppose. I feel bad for the families of the victims, because they will probably never find out what happened that led to this crash.
Old planes such as these were still flown, even though they were too old to fly. Metal fatigue, engine failure etc. Etc. & etc. Poor maintenance corrosion, you name it, these planes had it.
Anna Nardo -there is no such thing as a plane to old to fly provided it is properly maintained A 747 that was 42 years old was still flying with over 200000 hours in the air .And there are over 50 year old B52 bombers still flying What leads to scrappage is the cost of inspections and maintainance making it prohibitive to keep in service -same applies to ships, cars , houses etc .
It sounds like it was more than likely poor maintenance and/or metal fatigue that caused the accident. Since the plane didn't go down quickly, it makes sense it wasn't the tail fin that broke away. They didn't find the elevator or part of the horizontal stabilizer, so these objects were likely what people saw fall near saltee island after breaking off of the plane. And considering how "difficult" it was for the British Navy to find the main wreckage, it's not surprising they didn't find those pieces. They probably didn't even look for them! 😥 I don't get how they determined the plane kept flying for 10 to 30 minutes just from the message picked up that was transmitted over the radios. If that was less than a minute after being handed over to the British ATC, what makes them think the plane was in the air for an additional 10 to 30 minutes? I have to wonder about the actual investigation. Was it normal at the time for the British Navy not to look very hard for fuselage where they were told a plane had crashed?
If you read the report of the 2000 independent study, you will see why these mysterious transmissions are not consistent with the statements of almost 50 witnesses, most of whom, were ignored by the 1970 report. They know the plane was struggling for around 30 minutes, because there were a load of eye witnesses who saw it. Some saw it climb and then dive again with clouds of black smoke from the surging engines (or explosive re-ignition). Others heard the tell-tale "tak-tak-tak" sound of a flutter. All their reports fit together and are consistent with a loss of control incident. The plane was in trouble much, much earlier than suggested by the 1970 report. Some of these people were very young in 1968 and still alive in 2000 and they repeated their testimonies to the independent investigators.
The Vickers Viscount was used to transport Oil workers to the Northern sectors i.e Shetland Isles from Aberdeen right through the 60's and 70's. There was only one accident that i can remember and that was a Viscount went into the water at the end of the Runway in i think Lerwick leading to quite a few losses of life. Living in Aberdeen i watched these planes flying to Shetland right through my childhood. I went on to work in the oil industry but not until the mid 80's. By that time the they were using BAE 146/Avro RJ Whisperjets. Aberdeen its self has a great safety record having never had a serious fixedwing crash ever. Touch wood. RIP to the Victims of this tradgedy. Well put together video, and also well narrated. New Subscriber here. Thanks.
@@Shamrock100 Yes it was! Was being lazy not looking it up. There was a few different Aircraft used in that days. Never flew in any of them at that time. Was to young. The other plane that was used to fly up to shetland, was the SC7 Skyvan. AKA, the Flying Shoebox. A strange looking Aircraft to say the least. They were still flying those when i started working offshore. The BAE 146 was another Aircraft i flew in often. They had a few accidents in other parts of the world caused bu icing on the leading edge of the wings (Boots). They just turned over and nosedived into the ground.
The image at 3:40 is a Carvair, a most interesting plane that could open it's nose to load cars. That's the reason for the hump at the front... like a mini 747.
Jindiviks were not the only drone operated out of Llanbedr, they had Meteor D15 and D16 as well at the time. Both they and the Aberporth range were operated by the Royal Aircraft Establishment, not the RAF, though there was a small RAF unit at Aberporth to support Bloodhound Missile firings. Missile firings were quite regularly aborted when anything entered the range area when it shouldn't have, be it shipping or aircraft.
Bravo I love your "in-depth format" and narration style. I've watched EVERY Sim Recreation video from The Flight Channel & Alec Joshua Ibay, both tremendous channels. Whereas yours is a deeper dive yet lacks the sometimes cheesy acting & over-dramatization that makes one call MAYDAY (LOL) for 45 minutes.
I think that the delivery of the circumstances of the accident were very interesting and intriguing , Wonderfully described and easy to listen to I remember this as I had recently got married .. Shame My deepest sympathy..
Given the crash history of the viscount and the known facts it's highly likely the elevator theory fits. This actually happened recently in Canada I think with a DH Otter due to maintenance issues ( not the first time). Great video
I used to live in Rosslare Harbour (where Tuskar Rock is off the coast of), I remember seeing a memorial for this crash, but no one could ever really tell me how or why it crashed. It must be awful for the families not truly knowing why they lost their loved ones.
There was always speculation that the British were carrying out missile tests in the Irish sea on the day of the tragic Viscount accident.In the quite recent past the case was reopened for investigation in Ireland but the findings were inconclusive.Interesting how maintenance records disappeared.Certainly thought provoking and an unsolved mystery.RIP to all the victims.
It has been solved. There is no "mystery" any more, ever since the 2002 investigation. The report is in the public domain. Its conclusions are convincing. Not 100% proof, of course, but you can rule out involvement of the British military. Almost 50 independent eye-witnesses give a consistent and very plausible explanation about what happened - couple this with similar accidents involving Viscounts and it's fairly clear what happened. This aircraft was out of control ten minutes after leaving Cork airport. The crew struggled to gain control for another 20 before losing the battle.
I believe it would have been relevant to note that 1968 was the beginnings of the Troubles, meaning that relations between Britain and Ireland were severely strained, even more than the years previous, and would have provided fuel for the speculation about British military involvement in the disaster. Further, just 6 years later would be the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, terrorist attacks that were carried out by anti Irish paramilitary groups and had been supported by the British military, as evidenced by the military grade explosives they used. Like with the Aer Lingus flight, the Irish government both at the time and onwards would be unusually quiet about the incident. This has caused speculation that Britain has been actively coercing Ireland to stay quiet about it, to protect Britain's reputation. I don't believe it to be too outlandish that a similar situation occurred in 1968.
@@1882mick On 5th October 1968 in Derry, a march by NICRA to protest gerrymandering was met by water cannons and can be considered to be the start of the troubles. Research before you try and 'correct' me.
@@Oriel__ I live in northern Ireland I don't need to research I lived through it, the troubles refers to the armed secterian murder campaign started by the official IRA and carried on by the provisional IRA which started in 1969
Sorry, but I think you are right to be corrected. The latter Troubles were a crisis that evolved. It's hardly as if the two nations were on a war footing from day one. I have been reviewing the press coverage for this on the Irish Newspapers Archive all the way up to 2000 and there's scarcely a hint of the all the conspiracy theories being propagated here. www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/files/report-attachments/03.Tuskar_AAIU_REVIEW_2000_Report_No2000-003.pdf
If you found this video to be interesting, be sure to subscribe as there is a new video every Saturday. This video also went out to my Patrons on Patreon 48 hours before going out publicly. Consider joining here from £1 per month: www.patreon.com/DisasterBreakdown
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I liked this video, and I'm subscribed, also a sugestion, ariana 1998 afghan airlines boeing 727 crash or KAM air 904 please
Suggestion, you can do a recreation of the Hainan island incident, where a United States air Force P-3 Orion had collided with a People's Liberation Air Force J-8II.
@Jack’s epic gaming it takes months for requests to be made …. Plus there’s a list try asking if it’s on the list rather than demanding it
The storytelling was a bit too here and there I think. A lot of jumping around
Really great and well organized report, as usual! I like that you discuss the possibilities out there, without going conspiracy theory. RIP the victims and hope the families get closure. But, spending £ on an old accident, of a plane no longer flying, with no applicable safety improvements, is sadly unlikely. Calling all billionaires...
I used to fly in these Aer Lingus Viscounts from Bristol to Cork and back around 1968 and 1969. One time the bar and drinks had to be removed to get down to take off weight for the then shorter runway at Bristol. I was in the back row with the stewardess across the aisle. She was gripping the armrests so tight her knuckles were white. As we went down the runway, I thought “if she’s worried, maybe I should be too”. I’m amazed that one third of Viscounts failed in one way or another. That’s the key fact from a really well produced story, thank you. Now a subscriber, as my Viscount flights didn’t take me out 53 years ago… 😱
Your impression about Viscount losses is incorrect. Losses were due to many factors, of which structural or design issues was only one. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_the_Vickers_Viscount
I'm amazed only a 1/3 crashed.
@@bradsanders407 also, in the days most of the viscounts operated, it was not an unusual rate of losses.... especially for remoter routes.
we see some of the converted classes actually lose all of the planes in the class to accidents... planes are expensive, in a ruined post-war Europe, or the newly freed colonies, you simply flew it until it failed.
Lucky……
Captain made a call that he lost a propellor
I have to correct you regarding the Jindivik. It was never intended to be shot down; at a million Pounds each, that would be expensive. They were used to tow targets which we’re trailed behind the Jindivik; that is why they were painted orange and yellow to avoid being shot down. You may also note the Jindivik had a skid underneath its fuselage which allowed it to land back at its launch base and be reused. It was launched from a trailer which it detached itself from once airborne. They were indeed UAV’s and were occasionally lost.
Lee Air: This is actually a pretty big correction. Thank you for that information.
Trying not to be snarky, but military is not accustomed to budget considerations. I would rule this out based solely on the day of the week.
@@scallopohare9431 The Drones were not operated by the Military, but by the Royal Aircraft Establishment. All of the Operators and support staff at Llanbedr were Civilian contractors or Civil Servants. They do not work on Sundays
@@richardvernon317 Well, yes, the Sunday bit is why I would rule that theory out. Not sure what info was provided about the group that shot down the drones. Military is the most likely, so that's what I went with.
@@scallopohare9431 Oh they totally are. Why spend a billion to buy 20 expensive planes when it can be used to buy 50 cheaper planes.
And "military quality" basically means sourced from the cheapest contractor that just fulfills the requirements.
This one was worth the wait! Normally unsolved investigations and pre-digital flight recorder events are a bit of a let down, but you really made this really riveting! Amazing work as usual, C.
Thank you so much for your kind comment
@@DisasterBreakdown Honestly? I suspect we'll never know. the idea that maybe part of the tail broke off is... plausible. It'd cause a massive loss of control, and explain how people saw something fall out of the sky. we can't prove it's the "right" explanation but it seems most likely.
I do have to wonder about the breakup of the craft in general... it seems to have almost turned into confetti after hitting the water.
@@DisasterBreakdownthank you Chloe for covering this...as someone from Dublin,Ireland and an aviation nut job i found this very intresting.👍👍👍👍
@@DisasterBreakdownI think the lighthouse keepers who were manning the Tuskar rock lighthouse at the time of the crash if they are still alive would be good witnesses.
“12,000 feet, descending, spinning rapidly.”
Damn, this is the scary thing to hear from a plane as an ATC or a pilot of other aircraft. It feels like watching a horror movie.
I couldn't even begin to imagine what that was like. Horrifying.
People tend to communicate too little. A bit more detail would have been helpful. That flight from Colombia to NYC that kept asking for "priority" never really shouted "Hey! We're on FUMES here! Either we get down in five minutes or we crash land in someone's back yard!" (I think it was an Avianca flight - a few video have been made about it.)
Fabulous video about a horrifying and thoroughly mysterious crash. Thank you!
@@davesmith5656 Yes that Avianca Flight 52 Chloe did before. Wonder has made a more detailed video about but Chloe makes it simple getting all detail elaborated in at least 15 minutes.
In fact, Avianca Flight 52 cause was due to fuel starvation but it’s disputed who were at fault. Yes the pilots not giving enough detail and ATC not being able to discern the message. The same with American 965 which Chloe has also done before except vice versa. In fact, American Airlines for their South American routes gave their pilots special training but even that wasn’t enough although it wasn’t necessary. However, it was an added warning if you know what I’m saying.
@@RBMapleLeaf a similar accident happened at Portland International in 1979. The pilots ran the plane out of fuel trying to decide if the landing gear was down or not.
Excellent graphics . I lived in Wexford at that time and remember the incident so very well . I was 12 years old . My father , a doctor at the time had to review the few remains washed up on the beach . He never witnessed such carnage . I think it was due to horizontal stabiliser separation in flight or general structural weakness .
Speaking of the Vickers Viscount, my grandmother was supposed to be on one that crashed in Winton, Queensland. Ansett-ANA flight 149. It was an in-flight fire that led to the structural failure of the wing. From then on she used to say “chance it with Ansett.”
1 crashed into botany bay back in the 60s as well.
Shocking way to die. Poor buggers.
We used to sat "Chance it with Ansett, or Try Another Airline (TAA)".
I noticed something totally extraordinary in this video - namely, in 11:52 there is another Viscount visible behind Lingus EI-AKL. This is PLL "LOT" SP-LVA, which also crashed after mid-air breakup overy Jeuk in Belgium at 20.08.1965. There were no passengers on board, but crew of 4 perished in disaster. And once again - I'm still impressed by quality of the episode. ;)
Congratulations on your longest video yet! I really enjoyed the small cinematics and chapter breakdowns of this format. Excited to hear that an even bigger project is in the works!
The Jindivik story is easily discredited - all training facilities were closed at the weekend. Even now RAF Valley (the fast jet training facility on Anglesey) is still closed at the weekend.
Vicount's had an issue with their rear doors that opened outwards and were hinged on the rear - so that when the door failed, it would open get caught in the slipstream and fly open - to act like an airbrake, before tearing off and striking the horizontal stabilizer.
Hi thanks for comment.Did the door fall into the sea?If as you state that the rear door failed this would be something very major, and would the door warning lamp activate in the cockpit fuselage layout to inform the pilot. These lamps are centrally situated in the cockpit .Cheers.
@@jeromemccormick833 I'm not aware of the door being recovered - most of the wreck is still on the seabed. But Viscounts did also have problems with metal fatigue. But there had been incidents of the door opening due to latch failure and several Viscounts went crashed over sea.
@@jeromemccormick833 I think there was one accident with a Viscount and one of the doors opening in flight. Its in the report of the 2000 study. I think it was in India and the crew managed to land the aircraft, even though the door did strike at least one propellor and the stab.
I think this is a more realistic hypothesis on what happened
Why did some logbooks of the British disappear at this time? Why were there inconsistencies in others?
this turned out better than i've expected tbh.
very very well done, Chloe!
Thank you!
Wait, his name is Chloe? Like, female name in English and toilet in German?
@@B3Band
her**
Wait so the guy talking is not a guy??
@@macwt yeah, she's a woman
I fly out of Cork Airport several times a year. The original terminal still sits next to the modern one, now used for airport logistics.
It’s harrowing to think it’s the last place those poor souls visited. Maybe I’ll drop a flower there next time I pass by. For them, and for those lost on the runway as well.
I actually really like the old Cork Terminal. I think it has a very retro feel to it. Same goes for the older parts of Shannon Airport. Such style.
You are very respectful to the victims
That’s a nice thought.
@@DisasterBreakdown I like that they kept it, and made some use of it. Same in Dublin, if you’re taking a Ryanair Flight, you have to walk the long way to the other side of the terminal, and get to see the old terminal there too, and it’s in great conditon
@@sunnyfon9065 Of course, we should be
This film was wonderfully constructed, but it revived a whole series of tropes that have endured for too many years. First thing to say is, this is a crash which left so little evidence in its wake. A commonplace for the time, there was next to no data for the flight in an era without GPS, and flight recorders being far from prevalent. Similarly, there was just a partial recovery of the wreckage. Put another way, there was.a vacuum of evidence which, inevitably, produced no end of conspiracy theories.
So, let me just throw in some counters which will add greater context to the story.
One is not to make too much of Aer Lingus being a state airline and to dispel notions of Soviet style cover ups to counter any loss of face. As it was, it was all but an independent company, and small at that. The loss of an aircraft was not a good look, but hardly such as would bring about national shame.
Two, a missile strike. Had it been struck by a missile, it's failure, surely, would have been a much more instantaneous affair, whereas it is suggested the plane flew for a further thirty minutes, and made it into the water, all but intact.
Three, I'd suggest aircraft of the Viscount era were structurally prone to fatigue. They were technically good aircraft, but, as was very clear in the Comet story, there was inadequate R&D into the stresses and strains being placed on fuselages of the era. A failing that fed also into the Trident programme. Surely the loss of 25% of all Viscounts produced, says as much. One only has to think of the vibrations created by four large turbo props, all of which would feed into the frame. I flew in one once from Luton to Dublin when Virgin started a service in the 1988 - great fun, but not the place to be if one had loose fillings.
Four, and finally, for the Jindivik speculation to have any merit, you'd have to accept the idea of a drone being way off where it should have been; a missile being fired that would have been in contravention of the MOD's range boundaries; and testing taking place on a day which was, provably, not on schedule - a Sunday. All too believable if anyone knows of life in services where the Sunday Morning Service is a North Star of all regiments, followed by a decent roast nosh up in the Mess.
Therein lies the folly of conspiracies. They are dependent on too many facts being out of kilter to what could otherwise be expected.
Here's a link to the 2000 report which reviewed all the original evidence and found it to be in accord with the declared findings of 1968. www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/files/report-attachments/03.Tuskar_AAIU_REVIEW_2000_Report_No2000-003.pdf
The full truth of flight EI-AOM will probably never be known and maybe it's time to let the victims rest in peace.
May their souls, and all the souls of the faithful departed, rest in peace.
Scrolling all the way down for comments like this. While video is interesting and well executed, poor maintenance with some material or design flaw's is probably the root cause here.
Thank you for your perspectives and conclusions - I agree with the probability of a structural failure. I often flew on Viscounts and they liked to shake and rattle a lot…
What a complex and intriguing story. Unfortunately, there are still more questions than clear answers. I watched a documentary about Pan Am Flight 7 around 3 weeks ago and from my point of view many details between those 2 accidents are very similar like for example delaying the investigation and dropping relevant proofs and pieces of information to maybe hide something uncomfortable for the airline itself. We would never know. Congrats on your longest video so far!
That last transmission sent shivers down my spine
Likely never happened. The eyewitness statements of almost 50 people contradict the findings of the 1970 report. The Viscount never reached FL170 or FL120 for that matter. It was in trouble after only 10 minutes into the flight. The much later report in 2002 explains how the accident probably happened to more than 90% certainty.
A very mysterious accident... I hope one day the answers will be found. Thoughts and feelings go out to those families who lost loved ones that day. Exceptional presentation as always, Chloe!
The general feeling in Cork was that a missile was involved. The suggestion by UK ATC to take a shorter route always seemed strange and something not mentioned on the video was that the flight was delayed and crossing the Irish sea later than the times given to the military.
The failure of the navy to locate the wreckage also added to the theory.
Even if any of this was true, there has never been a suggestion that it was anything other than an unfortunate accident.
@@wilsjaneThis is very important information not given in the video.
@@Mary-wo5ln If Airbus built a car, it would have 2 steering wheels and 2 sets of pedals. You would never give your mother inlaw a ride again.
Joking aside, the airbus fly by wire system as well designed, incorporating many safety measures to avoid overstressing the limits of the aircraft design. However, if the captain wants to take over, he needs to tell the other pilot to release the controls. If not, the poor computer is averaging 3 sets of commands, with fairly obvious results.
The other pilot can completely take over, by holding a button down for about 10 seconds, but in an emergency, that seems like an eternity.
Most airlines using Airbus, instruct the pilot monitoring to only use verbal advice to the pilot flying and only take over if the pilot flying is incapacitated. Unfortunately, the importance of this often gets missed out in training
Being separate, the controls also give redundancy if one set fail for any reason, but the other pilot needs to know to hold his button down for 10 seconds.
Their is a video of the time when a pilots camera slid from alongside his seat and jammed his sidestick.
@@wilsjane Also the fact that the Jindivik was fully recovered with no signs of damage or an impact with a plane or a missile never sat right with me.
The quality of your work is unbelievable. Thank you for putting so much effort in - its much appreciated. Subbed 👍
I've loved your other videos (your voice/accent is so soothing to me, as an American!) but this was really fascinating. Despite watching a bunch of air incident videos over the years I've never heard much about this particular crash and this was very comprehensive, with some beautiful landscape shots in addition to the more technical stuff. Great work and can't wait for next week!
Superbly done. And a fascinating unsolved catastrophe.
i really do enjoy these longer videos, and appreciate the work that goes into them! great video, as always :)
Glad you like them!
I always thought this accident was likely to be structural failure, for perspective I was a AD technician in the RAF and worked on Bloodhound Mk 2 missiles in the early 80s, so this accident was well known at Aberporth Range. In the couple of years I worked on Bloodhounds we used to take a missile to Aberporth once a year after it had been stripped to the airframe and rebuilt with brand new everything at huge expense. These were "firing rounds" and used to impress on the brass that they were valid weapons - in fact the operational missiles rotting on launchers mostly in Norfolk would likely have disintegrated on launch if we ever had to shoot them off in anger they were all so old. We did shoot the firing rounds into Cardigan Bay at a target drone which flew North to South at the optimum altitude of FL20 to ensure we had the best chance of hitting the things, of the two I was involved with fireing one hit the target and the other missed but crashed into the sea seconds later - an ill advised low level target attempt. Like you say in the video NOTAMs were issued, radio broadcasts were done, radar sweeps were done by RAF and RN vessels and all sorts of safety protocols were met before we fired the drone let alone the missile, I have no reason to believe that precautions in 1968 were any less thorough the technology used then had hardly changed at all by 1983/4. The point I want to make is that if it was a stray round then for a start upwards of 150 people would have known about it and you cannot keep that quiet, plus the Viscount would have been shredded. The Bloodhound was a big missile with a big warhead designed to take out huge bombers, it had proximity radar trigger (fuse) and the warhead itself was wrapped with steel rods like concrete rebar the entire thing moving at mach 2.5 so when it went bang it filled the sky with a rapidly expanding ring of steel and shreds everything in seconds. The Sunday thing, yeah that's true enough but not because the military did not play on a Sunday it was the Welsh law in those days right up into the 90s I think, nothing opened and nobody worked because it was the Lords Day and folk still held to that stuff back then. Great video I "enjoyed" it, never thought I would see this one come up so well done and good research.
That adds much need perspective and from a very valid source. Good contribution, sir.
Thank you for your comment, which clarifies my understanding of what these missiles were designed to do. Similarly, the Buk missile which downed the Air Malaysia flight, complete and instant destruction of the aircraft. My dad worked for Ferranti at that time who made the electronics for the Bloodhound, but as a practicing Quaker he kept well clear of the weaponry aspects. He did provide a major upgrade to Shannon’s international air traffic system around 1965 which was something useful for air safety.
Thanks for that perspective.
Firing Angle out of Aberporth for the mighty Mutt was around 330 degrees out of the launch point. You must have been involved with either the 1981 or May 82 firings as the dedicated Bloodhound Firing unit was shut down in 1982. kit from West Raynham was deployed there in 86 to do the last firings (4 RAF and 2 Swiss). Both the Swiss missiles worked perfectly, three of the four RAF missiles failed. The last RAF missile was a Rust bucket and it did break up in boost.
@@richardvernon317 yep it was early 80s I was there May 82 sounds right because I went on a T88/89 radar course shortly after the test firings and spent the summer in Nottingham. By early 1983 I was at Benbecula working for FS Binnie who was famous for his ferocity dealing with young airmen. 40 years ago now and my failing memory is not what it was 8-) Uou were at West Raynham too - I was in Fakenham motorcycle touring a couple of years back did not recognise the place at all Raynham is a housing estate now and on the West coast Locking seems to have vanished off the face of the earth.
I am so thrilled by the effort that you put into this one. And whether the longest video in your TH-cam career turns out to be Malaysia Airlines Berhad Flight 370 or some other epic aviation disaster story, I hope I'll be there to see it. Keep up the good work Chloe!
As for Aer Lingus Flight 712, there is a quote from another TH-camr, Rob Gavagan that perfectly sums this story up. "You may not believe it, but anything is possible in a world so seriously strange."
A comprehensive account of this tragic mystery, superbly narrated. Well done Chloe. 🙏
I really look forward to your new videos appearing, because they are so well put together and the narration is so good. I can understand how frustrated the relatives and friends of the doomed passengers must be, with no answers and no closure - especially after working on the report for 2 years. They must have reasonably expected something more revealing to come out of it.
I’m extremely proud of you Chloe! goosebumps throughout. Growth in your production qualities abound. It’s hard to say you’ve grown a huge amount because your content was beautifully produced and written from the very beginning. Much love and appreciation for your work ❤
As most have said before me this was fantastically done and well worth the wait. Great structure and excellent research.
Thank you fr that analysis. I was particularly interested because I knew the F/O Paul Hefferman because we trained together at AST Perth in 1965-6
In the video you also alluded to an Aer Lingus Viscount training accident. The two trainees were also co-students at AST. I could also give you more information on why they were doing their instrument training on a Viscount and not on a Cessna 310 at AST.
Hello yes I would be interested to know why that was
A friend of mine who also trained at Perth told me Paul was his best friend, now no longer with us, Ed Hill was his name.
@@francovance1
Frank, I cannot remember an Ed Hill. The Aer Lingus course of which Paul was a member were a few months ahead of our course and we did not mix very much with them although we ate with them etc. Maybe Ed was a member of that course, but I have forgotten, or was on an even earlier course and left before we arrived.
Geoff
@@gnicholson4231 Thank you Geoff, Ed was twenty odd years my senior, both from the same village in Co Waterford, he often entertained me with tales from his time in Perth with names like Ernie Holmes and Fats Hamilton and others which I've sadly forgotten. Keep well. Frank.
Congratulations on your longest video ever!
Thanks for your amazing content on air accidents!
Thank you so much for watching!
@@DisasterBreakdown the honour is mine!
I love the hard work you put in all the videos you've done that I've seen so far. I've been a subscriber for probably a year the narration is superb, keep up the great work Chloe.😀😀😀
This channel just keeps getting better and better. Love it. 👍🏻
Ahh, right near where my family lives in Ireland! It is still very much on the minds of people there to this day. Bad events that are forgotten-about or left behind in other countries are held very dear in Ireland, sometimes.
My mom met dad while working for Capital Airlines while they used Viscounts. I never knew they lost so many. Thanks for another informative video.
In late 1968 or early 1969 as a new employee of the Marconi company in Chelmsford, UK, I briefly conversed with a colleague who had just come back from a visit to an RAF base in Wales. He made mention of a drone which had been lost control of in a maintenance exercise on the Sunday in question in March of 1968. This "drone" might very well be the "Jindivik" you describe. At that time there was no suggestion that this "incident" was in any way connected with Aer Lingus 712. The drone just got lost - end of story.
It was only much later that the possibility that the two events might have been connected. Such connection was never made publicly. If there is a connection then I suspect that the matter is buried under official secrecy.
Uh-oh.
Great video as always. And the editing... I got chills when the video got to the part about the Jindavik.
Great video and I like the meticulous avoidance of unqualified speculation. Another crash of the Viscount was the MacRobertson Miller Airlines flight 1750 Viscount on approach to Port Hedland, Western Australia in December 1968, involving 26 fatalities. I believe a wing failed catastrophically and this was subsequently determined to have been caused by the common practice of using a forklift to dismount engines for service, as in your video on American Airlines Flight 191. Might be a worthwhile subject if you haven’t already looked? Subscribed! 👍🏻
It should also be noted that the tailplane is not a wing. It doesn't hole the tail up, it pushes the tail down. So the loss if the tail plane will not result un a pitch up, it will result in a rather volent pitch down.
There is a film of a Mosquito testing the skip bomb, preparing for the dam busters raid. The bomb hits the water and water splashing up hits the tail of the plane. The wings bend down violently almost breaking before the plane hits the water.
First time hearing about this accident. Thanks for the video.
This is absolutely *fascinating.* Excellent video! Although I don't personally believe the Viscount was shot down, the Jindavik (sp?) collision theory is certainly interesting, although highly unlikely. I have to figure that this is a crash caused by poor maintenance on a too-old plane. Tragic that the families never got the answers they deserve, or the closure.
Thanks for comment. No matter what we "believe" lets back up this belief with solid factual evidence.
@@jeromemccormick833 Huh? I'm not allowed to have a personal belief based on the facts presented? I'm confused.
The more mysterious it is, the darker its truth will be.
Wishing peace upon family members and friends.
Fun fact about Irish aviation: Ryanair has had only one incident, involving a collision with a bird. They have the best track record in Europe, while also making a frankly ridiculous 2800+ flights per day as of 2022. This is all on top of being a notoriously VERY budget airline. Its a bit of an anomaly when it comes to commercial aviation.
To say the Viscount was old in 1968 is a bit strange. Only 20 since the first, and for the 800 series involved in the crash, around 10 at that time which is not particularly old for an airframe. It's the maintaining of it rather than age anyway. The crash of the CV580 mentioned and referring to it as old at the time takes me to mention that a fleet of these were operated in New Zealand by Air Chathams until being retired last year, the aircraft being almost 70 years old. They were still giving reliable service, however, getting parts was becoming a problem.
Ah ha you will no doubt be very familiar with the mighty Bristol Freighter!!
Not only are these the best airline disaster videos out there (that includes comparing to Mayday), but your narration is like unintentional ASMR. Please keep doing what you're doing!
I had never heard of this accident though I was then in service at Lajes Field, Azores, Portugal and received only partial news information. Obviously there is reason to suspect a horizontal stablizer and elevator separation as a probably cause of this accident. But unless there was another similar accident of this piece there is only speculation as to whether it played a role in this accident. Since no military activities were taking place that weekend that sort of obsolves that as a possibility. Dispite long standing differences with the UK the Brits would have had
a professional attitude toward this accident as it was a British aircraft involved. The science of undersea search efforts which has played a critical role in solving accidents might well have been far more limited at the time and depth of wreckage could have been a strong inhibitor.
Very well done!
But there WERE other similar accidents involving Viscounts. So it is not just "speculation".
This was all revealed in the 2002 investigation. The report is online.
Thanks for this - I am from Ireland and I always heard about the missile or UAV theory but I'm glad to hear different evidence. Great video
I am leaning toward metal fatigue and loss of the stabilizer. Metal fatigue was not well understood in the 60's. As to answers lying on the sea floor, there won't be any today. After almost 60 years, time and the sea will have erased any answers anyone may seek.
I love the long videos! The thorough commentary is nice, great work! :)
When maintenance records can't be found, ships logs don't add up, and expert salvors first fail to locate wreckage, and then drop it back in the sea after it was located for them, there is a lot that stinks, and it isn't fish.
Yes exactly, RIP to the passengers and valiant crew.
What an amazing video. The amount of details and research is staggering… not to mention the clear and concise presentation. It’s another level. Wow. 😮
Absolutely love this channel, Just leaving a comment for support ❤❤
Thank you so much!
I swear this channel gets better and better. Cheers to you. 🤟❤️🍻
Good informative video thanks.........I always use Aer Lingus when I fly to the USA The service and catering on board is very good.
Check out my latest video "Boeing 747 Breaks Up Just After Takeoff | Falling Apart Over Hawaii (4K)"
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Great video and thank you for covering this accident.
Amazing, keep up the good work!
Thanks a lot!
Fantastic video. Very thorough and clear. I can tell you put a lot of work into this
I looked at this accident, in detail, several years ago. It seems probable the aircraft suffered an elevator failure as this could've induced the sudden, violent spin. The Viscount would've been further damaged by the spin itself (consistent with the rapid lost of altitude). It is quite possibly the right-hand elevator control surface became partially detached during the spin or simply become inoperative. The assumption here is that the pilots regained control but were unable to correct the nose down pitch owing to lack of elevator control authority. To explain this, it helps to know that most aircraft counterbalance the lift of the main wings with downward force coming from the tail surfaces - typically this makes for a more stable aircraft. But if the elevators both fail the aircraft will likely enter a severe nose dive. If one elevator fails or the trim tab fails, the aircraft may enter a spin condition.
Spin correction usually starts with rudder control (opposite lock) and a nose down pitch. The aileron on the stalled wing is likely useless until the stall condition is alleviated and pulling back on the stick would certainly worsen the stall condition. It sounds as if the pilots did recover the aircraft from the spin but were unable to correct the nose down pitch. Loss of the trim-tab can have a surprisingly dramatic effect during certain parts of a typical flight, but a sudden entry into a spin, as a result, is improbable while at cruise.
As for impact with another aircraft (UAV) or missile: while these possibilities have a non-zero probability, the chances of such a collision seem remote compared to the likelihood of mechanical failure. It would be a remarkable strike indeed that 'only' damaged the elevator so this seems a stretch to me. In general the British do not lob active missiles around or fly UAVs at altitudes used by commercial airliners. In addition, before such tests, spotter aircraft are invariably on-site both as observers and to ensure no aerial incursions during such tests. Finally, it would be common practice for the armed forces to issue a civilian notification (NOTAM) for such a test (as you noted in the video) and to establish an exclusion zone. There was no such exclusion zone in effect that day and, in addition, no civilian record of same. A cover-up would be almost impossible and the repercussions of such a cover-up, should it be detected, would be catastrophic.
Aircraft back in the 40's, 50's and 60's were inevitably not as safe as modern types which have the benefit of decades of hard-won experience, greater reliability, rising standards and more advanced redundancy designs. Even so, the Viscount was a generally very safe aircraft and not prone to in-flight failures of critical control surfaces. Either way, a terrible loss of life and I really wish more had been done to uncover the root-cause. Thanks for this well-considered video!
Hi David, thanks for your overview and especially for your interesting thoughts on let's say the Tail Area.I'm only interested in publically available documentation at the moment with which I use to form my comments.At this stage I know an awful lot all about The Tuskar Aircrash and everybody involved.Can I send you some more detail later ,thats if you agree to allow me to do so.Cheers and thanks, from Jerome.
Very reasonable and intelligen post. Thank you. You might also find the report from the 2nd (independent) investigation around 2002 which is available online. A lot of what you wrote would concur with their findings.
My grandparents moved from Ireland to England in the 50’s, they used to fly home to Ireland on Aer Lingus viscounts, grandad used to say that they were shonky old aircraft, he called the airline Aer Fungus
lol
As an American I find it unbelievable that military exercises would be conducted in such a crowded area as the Irish Sea. American air and missile exercises take place in remote desert areas far, far from civilian settlement or activities.
Pretty crowded continent ya got there, I guess.
There are not many remote desert areas in the UK, so most live aircraft firings take place on beaches or out at sea.
[Edit] This comment was not intended to be as sarcastic as it sounds on re-reading.
Not every country has the luxury of that tbh.
@@bobthebomb1596 But why are the British firing towards Ireland?
@@Mary-wo5ln Because Ireland is on the other side of the Irish sea, where the range is located.
www.milfordmarina.com/media/1143/cardigan_bay_danger_area.jpg?width=425.1798561151079&height=500
I wonder if too many people were worried the finger would be pointed at them so they hid their records adding to the mystery...
You always keep one-upping yourself! Excellent video yet again.
My guess is icing? Mid March, North Atlantic region, rapidly descending spiral with partial regaining of control at low altitude. The rapid descent could lead to inflight breakup of some components resulting in witness claims of objects falling into the sea.
I wonder just what the weather conditions were…🤔
Cork is very southerly and average temperatures for that time of year would not have been below 5 degrees, so icing was unlikely to have been an issue on the ground. Meanwhile the average ceiling for the aircraft was 25,000ft, I believe. No likely conditions then for icing of the wings to have been a problem.
@@t.p.mckennaThat is cold enough that it might be cold enough for icing.
Icing is out of the question. The weather reports for that day elliminate icing at Cork and the aircraft only made it to FL 070 with only partial clouds.
Lead investigator being the one who certified the plane's airworthiness is all you need to know to be certain that no actual investigation was done. The only thing he was leading was the sweeping under the rug.
Another video worth watching. Good job.
Glad you enjoyed it
I flew to Cork from Bristol when i was eleven in 1965, it was my first flight and I remember being so excited. and yep it was a viscount
This is one of the best you've done. Excellent work. I'm curious if they will ever find out the truth 😢
The truth was found in 2002. You can read the investigation report. Its available online. In short - loss of control leading to part failure leading to structural failure = crash.
For 30 years the real cause was covered up by a smokescreen of "mystery" which suited certain people who had something to loose if the truth came out.
Thank you this. A very interesting video on an enduring mystery. Well presented and very thorough.
I live in Dublin, on the east coast. I didn't realise that so much of the wreckage had been found. There were always rumours that the British navy or Air force were implicated but it does seem like it might have been an accident.
The British authorities have consistently denied any military actions/exercises were in progress at the time - however, to quote Bismarck: "I never believe anything until it's been officially denied". Having said that, several aircraft of that vintage had ongoing issues/failures in terms of engines / fuel transfer valves. Just sayin'.
Excellent production. Thank you.
Viscounts were still flying commercially well into the 1980s. The UKs Royal Mail used them for many years as they used to fly over my office.
G-OHOT was lost in 1994 on a mail freight flight which encountered icing conditions, so Viscounts were flying well into the next decade too.
There was another Viscount accident in 1965, which killed the pilots and 2 on the round. It was a repositioning flight from the IOM to Liverpool's, then Speke airport. The plane overshot the runway while attempting to land and crashed in to a mothball factory, just across the road from Speke. I've never seen that accident covered. Again it was pre-digital age so not much is know about the reasons for the accident.
It was a Cambrian cargo flight returning empty from the IOM killing both pilots and two workers in the factory.
I bloody love your videos! I discovered you two weeks ago and have been binging hardcore. The only problem is that I'm running out of videos. Thanks for providing such incredible, high-quality content!
By the way - What's that gorgeous piece of music that you play in the 'wind-down' part at the end of each video? It's so beautiful.
Great breakdown! Thanks DB!
With fear of being shot down, but in the spirit of proper pronunciation; Ll makes the sound Cl in Welsh. So Clanbedr not Lanbedr. :)
I worked at Llanbedr from 1962 to March 1967. We worked Monday to Friday. It is not surprising that a fishing boat would bring up parts of a Jindivik, considering how many ended up in the Irish Sea. Same goes for the Meteor drones. I do remember the incident where a Jindivik hit a car, with occupants, but that's another story.
From what I remember this plane did have problems with corrosion in the lower sector of the rear bulkhead. Water would collect there because it could not effectively drain away, eventually corroding out the bulkhead. This caused the bulkhead to burst causing explosive decompression, leading to failure of the empennage. Inspections did not reveal any visual signs of corrosion, because that part was difficult to see, being covered by a sealant.
You may be thinking of the Vanguard, G-APEC having been lost in the manner you describe.
I don't think I've ever seen a video on this accident; it's something lost to time, I suppose. I feel bad for the families of the victims, because they will probably never find out what happened that led to this crash.
Very good. Good writing, good visual and audio.
But perfect in your knowledge that there really are thinking people out here.
Old planes such as these were still flown, even though they were too old to fly. Metal fatigue, engine failure etc. Etc. & etc. Poor maintenance corrosion, you name it, these planes had it.
Anna Nardo -there is no such thing as a plane to old to fly provided it is properly maintained A 747 that was 42 years old was still flying with over 200000 hours in the air .And there are over 50 year old B52 bombers still flying What leads to scrappage is the cost of inspections and maintainance making it prohibitive to keep in service -same applies to ships, cars , houses etc .
I’ve watched SO MANY of your videos Chloe and my god you do an amazing job!
It sounds like it was more than likely poor maintenance and/or metal fatigue that caused the accident. Since the plane didn't go down quickly, it makes sense it wasn't the tail fin that broke away. They didn't find the elevator or part of the horizontal stabilizer, so these objects were likely what people saw fall near saltee island after breaking off of the plane. And considering how "difficult" it was for the British Navy to find the main wreckage, it's not surprising they didn't find those pieces. They probably didn't even look for them! 😥
I don't get how they determined the plane kept flying for 10 to 30 minutes just from the message picked up that was transmitted over the radios. If that was less than a minute after being handed over to the British ATC, what makes them think the plane was in the air for an additional 10 to 30 minutes?
I have to wonder about the actual investigation. Was it normal at the time for the British Navy not to look very hard for fuselage where they were told a plane had crashed?
If you read the report of the 2000 independent study, you will see why these mysterious transmissions are not consistent with the statements of almost 50 witnesses, most of whom, were ignored by the 1970 report. They know the plane was struggling for around 30 minutes, because there were a load of eye witnesses who saw it. Some saw it climb and then dive again with clouds of black smoke from the surging engines (or explosive re-ignition). Others heard the tell-tale "tak-tak-tak" sound of a flutter. All their reports fit together and are consistent with a loss of control incident. The plane was in trouble much, much earlier than suggested by the 1970 report. Some of these people were very young in 1968 and still alive in 2000 and they repeated their testimonies to the independent investigators.
The Vickers Viscount was used to transport Oil workers to the Northern sectors i.e Shetland Isles from Aberdeen right through the 60's and 70's. There was only one accident that i can remember and that was a Viscount went into the water at the end of the Runway in i think Lerwick leading to quite a few losses of life. Living in Aberdeen i watched these planes flying to Shetland right through my childhood. I went on to work in the oil industry but not until the mid 80's. By that time the they were using BAE 146/Avro RJ Whisperjets. Aberdeen its self has a great safety record having never had a serious fixedwing crash ever. Touch wood. RIP to the Victims of this tradgedy. Well put together video, and also well narrated. New Subscriber here. Thanks.
Was that crash into the water not a Dan-Air HS748?
@@Shamrock100 Yes it was! Was being lazy not looking it up. There was a few different Aircraft used in that days. Never flew in any of them at that time. Was to young. The other plane that was used to fly up to shetland, was the SC7 Skyvan. AKA, the Flying Shoebox. A strange looking Aircraft to say the least. They were still flying those when i started working offshore. The BAE 146 was another Aircraft i flew in often. They had a few accidents in other parts of the world caused bu icing on the leading edge of the wings (Boots). They just turned over and nosedived into the ground.
The image at 3:40 is a Carvair, a most interesting plane that could open it's nose to load cars. That's the reason for the hump at the front... like a mini 747.
Jindiviks were not the only drone operated out of Llanbedr, they had Meteor D15 and D16 as well at the time. Both they and the Aberporth range were operated by the Royal Aircraft Establishment, not the RAF, though there was a small RAF unit at Aberporth to support Bloodhound Missile firings. Missile firings were quite regularly aborted when anything entered the range area when it shouldn't have, be it shipping or aircraft.
Really well done video. Seems like you delved into a lot of research on it.
"Part 'n Air" is an unfortunate name for an airline whose plane fell apart in flight.
Bravo I love your "in-depth format" and narration style.
I've watched EVERY Sim Recreation video from The Flight Channel & Alec Joshua Ibay, both tremendous channels.
Whereas yours is a deeper dive yet lacks the sometimes cheesy acting & over-dramatization that makes one call MAYDAY (LOL) for 45 minutes.
I dunno if this will be seen but i was wondering if you have ever considered the infamous STENDEC incident from 1947 as a Disaster Breakdown episode?
Great mystery, the plot thickens in this case... 🤔Thank for this vid, very thought provoking 👌🏻👍🏻✈️🇮🇪
That pilot had the coolest name ever lol Bernard O'Beirne
Very interesting, I’m a new subscriber.. Thanks for your efforts, I look forward to your next video .
I think that the delivery of the circumstances of the accident were very interesting and intriguing , Wonderfully described and easy to listen to I remember this as I had recently got married .. Shame My deepest sympathy..
Given the crash history of the viscount and the known facts it's highly likely the elevator theory fits. This actually happened recently in Canada I think with a DH Otter due to maintenance issues ( not the first time).
Great video
Fascinating! Keep doing what you're doing! When I'm a bit more flush, which should be soon, I fully intend to become a patreon!
Very nice episode 👌
Excellent content, as usual!
chloe - this is such an incredible video! i loved every second of it!! :)
Cant wait till Chloe makes an hour long video
good stuff tho cant wait for the next one :3
I used to live in Rosslare Harbour (where Tuskar Rock is off the coast of), I remember seeing a memorial for this crash, but no one could ever really tell me how or why it crashed. It must be awful for the families not truly knowing why they lost their loved ones.
This was a good one.
Thanks!
This channel is absolutely remarkable!
There was always speculation that the British were carrying out missile tests in the Irish sea on the day of the tragic Viscount accident.In the quite recent past the case was reopened for investigation in Ireland but the findings were inconclusive.Interesting how maintenance records disappeared.Certainly thought provoking and an unsolved mystery.RIP to all the victims.
It has been solved. There is no "mystery" any more, ever since the 2002 investigation. The report is in the public domain. Its conclusions are convincing. Not 100% proof, of course, but you can rule out involvement of the British military. Almost 50 independent eye-witnesses give a consistent and very plausible explanation about what happened - couple this with similar accidents involving Viscounts and it's fairly clear what happened. This aircraft was out of control ten minutes after leaving Cork airport. The crew struggled to gain control for another 20 before losing the battle.
I believe it would have been relevant to note that 1968 was the beginnings of the Troubles, meaning that relations between Britain and Ireland were severely strained, even more than the years previous, and would have provided fuel for the speculation about British military involvement in the disaster. Further, just 6 years later would be the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, terrorist attacks that were carried out by anti Irish paramilitary groups and had been supported by the British military, as evidenced by the military grade explosives they used. Like with the Aer Lingus flight, the Irish government both at the time and onwards would be unusually quiet about the incident. This has caused speculation that Britain has been actively coercing Ireland to stay quiet about it, to protect Britain's reputation. I don't believe it to be too outlandish that a similar situation occurred in 1968.
The troubles started in 69
@@1882mick On 5th October 1968 in Derry, a march by NICRA to protest gerrymandering was met by water cannons and can be considered to be the start of the troubles. Research before you try and 'correct' me.
@@Oriel__ I live in northern Ireland I don't need to research I lived through it, the troubles refers to the armed secterian murder campaign started by the official IRA and carried on by the provisional IRA which started in 1969
@@Oriel__ also 1969 was when British troops were sent onto the streets to protect the nationalist community
Sorry, but I think you are right to be corrected. The latter Troubles were a crisis that evolved. It's hardly as if the two nations were on a war footing from day one. I have been reviewing the press coverage for this on the Irish Newspapers Archive all the way up to 2000 and there's scarcely a hint of the all the conspiracy theories being propagated here.
www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/files/report-attachments/03.Tuskar_AAIU_REVIEW_2000_Report_No2000-003.pdf