Pretty sure back stalling is actually caused by too much angle of attack in the kite which will then turn your trailing edge into your leading edge causing the kite to fly backward. This happens because your kite can no longer provide enough lift to keep it in the air. You will notice back stalling more in light winds than in strong winds because the strong winds give you kite more overall lift. With a correctly tuned bar, all of your lines will be the same length when sheeted in and your trim let all the way out. You will not need to trim your kite if your bar is tuned correctly.
I think when the angle of attack is too great, the air on the back-side separates. This is a standard aerodynamic stall that all wings are subject to. lots of great videos showing it for wings. You end up with circulations of air and it not flowing smoothly over the kite.
my top tips are: Tip 1: sheeting full in should ALMOST back stall the kite. It should almost want to back down the window, but not quite. When you jump you'll swing under it a little changing the point of the back stall. Tip 2 (which I've only just learned myself) full speed, see take off point (wave / ripple / flat spot) edge against the kite, sheet in a little to really initiate the kite turning, then really drive upwind and sheet out! Then pop, jump and sheet in all at the same time. Play with your kite, sheeting in and out at different times ... you want the kite to ZOOM around the sky, the faster you are going and the kite is turning and sheeting in is the key. Tip 3: Deadman. This forces you to hold the bar in. Tip 4: Don't listen to me, what the hell do I know?! I'm yet to conquer 15m so I kinda suck - lol. I can do 10m OK though.
Hi Blake, Everything you said is true and well explained. But it all comes down to line length in the end. You have trimmed your lines to back stall and have to compensate with the trim strap in big air. If you setup your lines in equal length, you should not have backstall and your trim strap becomes actual depower.
If the bar is tuned properly then this shouldnt matter as much.. the average kiter with a 4 year old bar thats never been tuned (properly tuned off the water) already has an excessively stretched center lines so them trimming the adjustment on the bar is bringing the angle of attack to a more neutral position
Don't you always want your kite trimmed properly? And shouldn't a new bar that suites the kite never require trimming? In that case it's better to just tune the bar if the middle lines got stretched over time (most bars have a way to adjust this). Middle lines seem to get stretched much faster than most people expect. I had significant stretch after 6 months and we get 1 windy day a week on average here (and it's rarely a full day, usually just a few hours at best).
As far as I know it's definitely just better to fix the bar. New bar that is suitable for the kite you're not supposed to need any trimming as far as I'm aware. At least for the FX I verified this personally with multiple bars.
In the backroll board off kiteloop! You must let go of the bar just after the loop so the kite can catch you and so you can regrabbed the bar in the middle and sheet it back in. Then work you farthest foot in first or do you try to put your closes foot in first? I never have enuf time to put my feet back in and I crazy. Do I need a beter kite than the orbit? Was think the core of Kevin's new kite? What do you think Blake?
Hey Roman, Foil kites are a little different. They require more trimming throughout your session generally. Here is what I do... For launching- pull in a few inches to be sure you are not launching overpowered or oversheeted. Either could be a recipe for disaster if things go wrong. Once in the air and inflated properly - let out a few inches and fly the kite a little. Try to feel for that spot where the kite is fully powered but not oversheeted. If you find yourself overpowered, trim in until you find a point you are comfortable flying at full bar sheeting. If you can't find it- let out another inch or two, fly it, and feel again When you find that point - I like to put the max power about 1-2 inches up from the chickenloop with the bar for foiling. For jumping max power right on top of the chickenloop. Once riding - you'll gain more apparent wind, so you can let more trim out if you'd like to for more power. Keep in mind, if you slow down you'll not be able to sheet the bar in all the way without oversheeting the kite. When coming to shore - pull in a few inches of trim to reduce kite power, come ashore, land normally. -Tucker
10m orbit pulls like an 8m switchblade, it need to be super overpowered or it stalls like he explains he do when using it on a foil, Hopefully they will sort this out on the orbit v2,
Pretty sure back stalling is actually caused by too much angle of attack in the kite which will then turn your trailing edge into your leading edge causing the kite to fly backward. This happens because your kite can no longer provide enough lift to keep it in the air. You will notice back stalling more in light winds than in strong winds because the strong winds give you kite more overall lift. With a correctly tuned bar, all of your lines will be the same length when sheeted in and your trim let all the way out. You will not need to trim your kite if your bar is tuned correctly.
Bingo!
I think when the angle of attack is too great, the air on the back-side separates. This is a standard aerodynamic stall that all wings are subject to. lots of great videos showing it for wings. You end up with circulations of air and it not flowing smoothly over the kite.
Thanks Blake. This explains trimming the kite in a different way than I’ve looked at it in the past.
Cheers, That’s what we were going for. Blake’s in Puerto Rico right now but I’ll pass the comment along to him. 🤘🏻 - Rygo
Realy cool video, thks! Very well structured.
After Christmas I will decide between Rebel and Orbit.
my top tips are:
Tip 1: sheeting full in should ALMOST back stall the kite. It should almost want to back down the window, but not quite. When you jump you'll swing under it a little changing the point of the back stall.
Tip 2 (which I've only just learned myself) full speed, see take off point (wave / ripple / flat spot) edge against the kite, sheet in a little to really initiate the kite turning, then really drive upwind and sheet out! Then pop, jump and sheet in all at the same time. Play with your kite, sheeting in and out at different times ... you want the kite to ZOOM around the sky, the faster you are going and the kite is turning and sheeting in is the key.
Tip 3: Deadman. This forces you to hold the bar in.
Tip 4: Don't listen to me, what the hell do I know?! I'm yet to conquer 15m so I kinda suck - lol. I can do 10m OK though.
Really good content. Well explained and relevant!
whyamihereification 😀Glad you liked it mate!
Hi Blake, Everything you said is true and well explained. But it all comes down to line length in the end. You have trimmed your lines to back stall and have to compensate with the trim strap in big air. If you setup your lines in equal length, you should not have backstall and your trim strap becomes actual depower.
Bravo!
Excellent as usual! Thank you.
Cheers dude!!
If the bar is tuned properly then this shouldnt matter as much.. the average kiter with a 4 year old bar thats never been tuned (properly tuned off the water) already has an excessively stretched center lines so them trimming the adjustment on the bar is bringing the angle of attack to a more neutral position
Don't you always want your kite trimmed properly? And shouldn't a new bar that suites the kite never require trimming? In that case it's better to just tune the bar if the middle lines got stretched over time (most bars have a way to adjust this). Middle lines seem to get stretched much faster than most people expect. I had significant stretch after 6 months and we get 1 windy day a week on average here (and it's rarely a full day, usually just a few hours at best).
Everything under 28 knots is light wind 😎🤙
Ralf Spoken like a big air rider. 🤟🏻🤙🏻- Rygo
Exactly! I don’t even go out if it’s 20 knotts unless I’m bored!
Wouldn't tuning your bar compensate for this so you wouldn't need to trim up the kite on over-stretched front lines?
As far as I know it's definitely just better to fix the bar. New bar that is suitable for the kite you're not supposed to need any trimming as far as I'm aware.
At least for the FX I verified this personally with multiple bars.
How to trim your kite...
Sorry, but from this video a haven't understand how to trim it at all :/
Sorry for missing your comment from earlier. 🤙🏽 Do you still have questions that we may help with? -Aaron
My strategy is just keep kiting
Eric Sholomon Hands down the best one we know of. Shred on my dude! - Rygo
In the backroll board off kiteloop! You must let go of the bar just after the loop so the kite can catch you and so you can regrabbed the bar in the middle and sheet it back in. Then work you farthest foot in first or do you try to put your closes foot in first? I never have enuf time to put my feet back in and I crazy. Do I need a beter kite than the orbit? Was think the core of Kevin's new kite? What do you think Blake?
What settings would you recommend on a Core XR for big airs? Fast turning and heavy bar pressure
Thanks =) How should I trim it when I have gusty wind like every day always 10 kt difference?
trim the same! You want to pull the trim in just enough to keep it from backstalling when sheeting all the way in.
Get a good kite like Ozone Edge! You will forget gusts exist.
how tale are you and what board size are you riding?
great vid... how does the trim apply to foil kites... ie fs soul
Hey Roman,
Foil kites are a little different. They require more trimming throughout your session generally. Here is what I do...
For launching- pull in a few inches to be sure you are not launching overpowered or oversheeted. Either could be a recipe for disaster if things go wrong.
Once in the air and inflated properly - let out a few inches and fly the kite a little. Try to feel for that spot where the kite is fully powered but not oversheeted. If you find yourself overpowered, trim in until you find a point you are comfortable flying at full bar sheeting.
If you can't find it- let out another inch or two, fly it, and feel again
When you find that point - I like to put the max power about 1-2 inches up from the chickenloop with the bar for foiling. For jumping max power right on top of the chickenloop.
Once riding - you'll gain more apparent wind, so you can let more trim out if you'd like to for more power. Keep in mind, if you slow down you'll not be able to sheet the bar in all the way without oversheeting the kite.
When coming to shore - pull in a few inches of trim to reduce kite power, come ashore, land normally.
-Tucker
How you can ride a 10m with 42 knots?
10m orbit pulls like an 8m switchblade, it need to be super overpowered or it stalls like he explains he do when using it on a foil,
Hopefully they will sort this out on the orbit v2,
I did ride 40 to 60 knots with 9m2 ozone edge. Didn’t have a 7! I was overpowered but it was feasible - jumping, riding upwind et all!
Who wants to circle around the Earth? Well, let's get an orbit.
Isnit all 4 even lines makes a perfect trimmed kite..
david ryan No.
@@rvdnagel1963 All 4 even lines is a perfect trimmed Bar then...Is the right.
Yes exactly!