I think Elizabeth not being in FNAF 4 is easily explained by what we’re given about her personality in Sister Location. She loves her dad, likes animatronics and obviously is aware of her dad’s work life (by knowing details about Circus Baby before opening.) So, I argue that Elizabeth goes to work with their dad during FNAF 4 and since CC is scared of the animatronics, he stays home and gets watched by Mike. As far as when Elizabeth died, I’m staunchly team “Scott doesn’t have details planned out until he starts writing each individual game and then finds ways to connect them to past games”, so I think shoehorning it in is literally part of the territory.
I really like that theory. Great job, man! However, I think I know another possibility. we know that in some way, elizabeth is connected to Vanessa. Whether Vanessa is a rebuilt adult robot version of Elizabeth, we don't know, but there definitely is a connection somewhere. We learn in vanessa's therapy tapes that her parents kept fighting over who gained custody over her. Elizabeth and her parents could have been in the divorce court around the time of fnaf4. Idk, just a theory
@@joshuamcgonagle5455 Maybe! Honestly, I have the unpopular opinion of loving “humans are robots” theories like Gregbot and Vanessabot, so I’m definitely rooting for your theory. The only kink I see is with your last part: we see a purple guy with a worker’s tag putting someone in a Freddy springlock during CC’s cutscenes. That was probably William, working while the kids were around. Ofc, that doesn’t rule out the possibility that he was at court on the days where CC’s cutscenes were exclusively at home.
The fact that there’s a toy in the guest room is actually pretty realistic. Kids tend to just… do that. They pick up their toy from where it’s normally stored, and they run off to a random room in the house to play with it. If CC is younger than 10, that checks out for him.
I'm a firm believer that Elizibeth died before Bite Victim mostly because of the line in TFTPP about how the springlock suits were discontinued around the same time they were created, Circus Baby's had a spring lock suit.
The Springlocks were discontinued in 1985, though, not because of the bite (the bite wasn’t even a springlock failure). Besides that, Charlotte and C.C die really close to each other in terms of time (both die in the Fallfest 83) and William creating killer animatronics before killing his first victim doesn’t make any sense. And in the Novels, Elizabeth dies after Charlie.
Yeah, exactly! And the fact that Elizabeth was killed by Baby to begin with! Ol' Willy A had to have built her and the other Funtimes with Remnant in mind, which he wouldn't have been able to if Charlotte hadn't died before her. And I already have a slew of evidence that Charlotte died AFTER the Bite of 83 which I am willing to share! I was always on the fence about Elizabeth dying first (every time I saw a "Order of Aftons' Deaths" video, I was always like, "Wait, how/why is SHE the first?") Now though, there is no conceivable method anybody has that will EVER get me to believe she died first
Nah bro she died shortly after the MCI which happened in 1985. And in the fourth closet, she is in kindergarten, making her born in 1980, making her a toddler during Fnaf 4
@@amphibiland7315 since the fact that she sounds really young in her voice lines, still calling her dad daddy, if we do the math correctly we can find out that in the mini game where she dies that each line is 2.6 inches, and since it is confirmed that Baby is 7’2”, we find out that Elizabeth is 3’9”, and since she is British if she is the average height for her age, we find out that she is 6 years old. Just my opinion, you can have your own
To add to what you said about Elizabeth's room having a bed but no crib, babies don't transfer to beds until at the youngest 18 months old and as Scott is a father I doubt he would have overlooked this detail. Either Elizabeth is too young to be left unsupervised, she's there and is younger so could be the girl in the garden at a stretch, or she's already gone. Also if FNAF 4 is set in 1983, how do we have a disassembled Mangle? Is it a model? Could be, but wouldn't it be Toy Foxy as Mangle only came about once kids got hold of it.
I thought dream theory had been completely debunked by Scott? Unless there is another theory I haven't heard of. Can you explain as I think I've missed something?
William having created the funtimes between 1985 and 1987 wouldn't make sense to me, since from what we were shown in the games he only discovered the possession of the animaronics in the Save Them minigame from FNAF 2, with Withered Freddy's attack.
It could be possible that maybe Elizabeth was born when Crying Child was already dead and maybe Elizabeth's death was more later in the timeline then we all thought But I'll simply go by your theory
I think the more important question is WHY did elizabeth afton die? WHO did elizabeth afton die? WHERE did elizabeth afton die? WHAT did elizabeth afton die? and sometimes Y did elizabeth afton die?
Why: because she’s a dumb little sh!t who didn’t listen to her dad, she f@cked around and found out Who: BABAY!!!! Where: circus baby’s pizza world, or a grassy field if the mini games are canon What: baby gave her ice cream, then yoinked her with the stomach hand, guessing she snapped her neck since baby said the screaming stopped, unlike that one story with Funtime Freddy Y: because that’s what aftons do, thanks Willy When: idk I was too busy writing this I missed the video 😂😂
I'm honestly stuck in-between Elizabeth2nd (after Charlie but before BV) and Elizabeth3rd (after Charlie and BV). I can't say I'm leaning toward either since that'd be a complete lie.
I had a theory where Vanny, Is The Spirit of Elizabeth. Possessing Vanessa, or Whoever is in that White Rabbit Suit. To be like her father. Elizabeth is Too Loyal to Her Farther, Her Spirit Would Not have Passed On.
One of these days we have to get some more clues to Circus Baby and Elizabeth pre Sister Location. Maybe the Circus and/or Carnival themed FNAF figures we got what a year ago, two, now will be able to get their spotlight and help fill in the gaps.
What if Crying Child, in the cutscenes, is in Foxy bro's room and the "girls room" WAS his bedroom before he died. FNAF4 is largely focused on the idea of everything being scrambled, or jumbled; the gameplay sections are scrambled; it's a child's perspective, an adult's (queen size - two pillows side by side) bed with young children's toys in the room and FNAF1 phone calls in the background. What if CC's sections, the cutscenes, are also mixed up; he's remember incidences leading up to his death, but what if he is doing so while also seeing the present; maybe he's crying because something doesn't "feel right" and things have changed; there is now a little girl's room, Maybe Mike now keeps CC's plushies in his bedroom (the plushies book-end the first cut scene as appearing in a physical space and then lastly shown in the void)? Maybe the year 1983 is connected to when CC died, OR MAYBE it's the current year of the real world? Maybe the children he talks to outside are other spirits also trapped around the area of the Family Diner; also unaware they are dead, saying "meta" things because of how everything is scrambled? It's pretty far out there of an idea, but it all goes back to the question of why Crying Child STARTS the game as already being a constantly crying child? He is emotive enough to visually respond to things happening around him, but he is automatically always crying no matter what the context; it's not even a solid piece of his sprite; it's an animated effect! I just think this, whatever causes him to be "the crying child" is a core answer to other questions unsolved about FNAF4.
In the fourth closet, Elizabeth for sure dies post MCI, because the Circus Baby robot is taken after Henry is dead. Besides that, great video! Been binging over the last few days 😁👍
I really wish people would stop trying to make Abby and Elizabeth the same person. Maybe a parallel, I'll give you that, but only partly. Truly, though, they're greatly different. And saying "Abby" can be short for "Elizabeth" is the biggest leap I've ever seen, because plain and simple it's short for Abigail. Liz, Lizzy, Liza, Eliza, and Beth can ALL be short for Elizabeth, but they'd pick... Abby? I don't think so lol. And saying that "Abby" can be rearranged to be "Baby", while technically true, I'd bite my own frontal lobe out if that ends up being intentional because I personally find it a little dumb and on-the-nose if its true. Also, the idea that FNAF 4 takes place before sister location could definitely be plausible, but crying child being born and dying all before Elizabeth is even born? The only way that idea works is if we assume CC and Elizabeth aren't related and CC and Foxy Bro aren't Afton's children. Because, if Elizabeth isn't born yet, who's girl bedroom do we enter in FNAF 4? Certainly not Mrs. Afton, it's too childish. A secret 4th Afton daughter? Not impossible, but no evidence supports it so far. My long rant put aside, I still really like and appreciate the video as always, even if I don't fully agree with some points. Keep being rad, Evan.
I 100% agree with this theory, plus the girls room can easily just be Elizabeth’s room when she stays over at the mothers house as full custody doesn't mean that the other parent doesn't get to spend time with the children
I think Elizabeth Afton died in 1983, shortly after Evan died in the aftermath of the Bite of ‘83, and shortly before William Afton killed Charlotte Emily in the same year.
I can’t stress this enough and I keep seeing people use this as evidence. In ITP, the book and the game, Oswald never goes back in time. When he ‘goes back’ to 1985, it is really just a hallucination created by Elenore. Meaning, she can get a lot of things wrong. Also, in the Fazbear Frights universe, assuming that Splitline is not true, then Elenore was not even around in 1985. Also, because Cbear opened directly after Cbpw, it does not matter if Hand Unit is talking about Cbpw or Cbear as they both happen around the same time, AKA after Freddy’s closes. Meaning Elizebeth dies 1985-1987 (probably 1986 for simplicity sake)
Into the pit is obviously not time travel. But it’s also not a hallucination. It is a memory. It is a warped memory, but only with the way the events play out. There’s no reason other events of the series would bleed into that. Also, Eleanor WAS around in 1985 BECAUSE into the pit is a memory relating to her. Nothing suggests she wasn’t. Also, as I said in the video, hand unit at the beginning of sister location was likely referring to the reopening of CBEAR rather than the original opening since as I said Dittophobia indicates it shut down and reopened again
Great video, covered all the options well imo! I do get the reasoning for placing her after the Bite because of the CBPW switch, but ultimately the reason I place her before is because of something you didn't touch on much here: the Funtime Foxy toy. To me that implies the Funtimes already existed, which is consistent with CBPW having a spring lock suit (of course we don't know when they were retired for certain, I just mean that it suggests it's somewhere relatively early in the timeline which makes it more plausible it's _this_ early in the timeline). What you suggest is pretty compelling though and I'm going to need to think on this more.
My biggest issue with elizabeth dying before the mci is simply the motive for william to build baby, a giant murder bot. To me, the puppets possesion is hardly a strong enough motive to behin experiments, but william is an insane psycho path, and killing five kids to see if they also posses makes far greater sense, and thus elaborates on his experiments of posesion with the funtimes.
Nobody ever talks about the girl that’s in the FRONT YARD of the house with the rest of her toys. That WAS supposed to be the sister. She left Foxy in her room because it was broken and then she broke her chica toy outside playing in the houses front yard.
It’s not the front yard of the afton house. It’s literally just a park. Notice there’s a fence blocking off the house but opening from the street? House yards are the exact opposite. And nothing about that girl resembles Elizabeth or implies they are the same person, especially since Elizabeth has green eyes as a very defining feature while that girl has blue eyes
@ImpulseEvan37 #1 thet benig a park dos not mean it is impossible for the girl benig Elizabeth because girls back then woed go outside # 2her eye color dos not matter because Elizabeth wasn't a carecter at thet time so she probably was redcond to be Elizabeth (sorry for my English it is my second language)
If Elizabeth wasn't born yet, then how could there have been a broken toy? I just recently posted my headcanon on the Afton family timeline. In it, I included that Elizabeth died in 1985 and that she was born in 1975. Also, since Pigtail girl isn't Elizabeth (which I only just figured out) I believe that Toy Girl is Elizabeth. They both wear pink shirts, seem pretty cheerful, both have red bows in their hair, and both have blonde hair.
Youre getting better and better at theory crafting, but some constructive criticism: youre speaking way too fast, i had to check my playback speed i thought i sped it up on accident. Youre throwing a ton of information at the audience, which is great but the audience needs time to hear it, process it, sometimes rebut it then reach a resolution to move forward to the next point. Keep up the good work, just pace yourself a bit
@@drlolzsilllyz because that's obviously an girl room and there's no hints to Michael having an older brother doesn't make any sense to even believe this could be an possibility
yeah, i believe that Elizabeth was the very first one to die, and she's the one who gave William Afton the Idea of spirits and Possessions, she always sees herself as circus baby and someone who tried so hard to get her father's attention.
I think the Afton hasn't made any of the animatronics. I think he is like Dr. Wiley in that he simply steals Dr. Lights eight robot Masters and makes adjustments to them to make them hurt Humans Dr light here being Henry
The part in Dittophobia about tracable phones is often forgotten. Tracable phones being a thing sets the story in the late '90s, or later. It could also be set in the early 2000s since Rory seems to know what a website is (based on him not acting suprised when he hears about it). This doesn't debunk anything in your theory, I'm just letting everyone know.
Tbh, I don't think it matters that much when traceable phones were created irl. In FNaF we have animatronics with facial recognition in 1987 and a shape shifting endoskeleton that was created in 1984 if not earlier. So I don't think we can apply irl technology progress to FNaF.
in my personal headcanon she dies in 1986 so before fnaf 2 but after fnaf 4. but honestly idk which one i agree with more in this video for the theories so i guess maybe the last one? i don't know, i do think though that she isn't dead in fnaf 4 just because she isn't in the game, i know we can just come up with a good reason but we also just kind of have to remember that originally fnaf 4 was suppose to be the final story or at least in a way the final story and fnaf world was just a side upgrade until the whole baby thing was figured out because to my knowledge because fans complained about fnaf 4 and world. not sure but i think the most likely option is if wiliam maybe had shared custody of the kids but on separate dates idk maybe elizabeth was just with her mom and would just go to the party on her brother's birthday or something. also if her room was just a guest room imagine if that room was used for charlie before she died like, if he had to babysit or something.
The toy in Elizabeth’s room is clearly parts of mangle which means she must’ve been alive when fnaf 2 was being 1987. Which means she was alive through 83-87 which I say she probably died at the launch of fnaf 2/sister location with them both taking place after the OG Freddy’s closes
Amazing theory but there are some problems with it 1. The pizzeria is pizza simulator is like one room if elizabeth died in a room full of people everyone would see her and the pizzeria wouldn't close because of gas leaks but because of Elizabeth's death 2. It's possible that william never made the animatronics to kill and Elizabeth's death was just an accident. The reason william didn't let her go near her is because it was a test day and william wasn't sure if the animatronics were in proper form. Have a nice day
In both security breach and the tales epilogues it is shown that there is more than one room in fnaf 6. Plus, I don’t Elizabeth died by accident considering she was made to kill. Sure that could’ve been added later, but there isn’t really any indication of that
A week before Garrett (don’t at me in the comments and say the fnaf 4 kid is called Evan , the piece of evidence for that is in fazbears frights and fnaf movie appears to be more concrete).
The poster in the ITP game does not show CB with green eyes, which is a crucial detail in her design. It that poster, her eyes are grayish/blue (The effects of the trailer make it difficult to see). So it is probably an advertisement for the restaurant, if it even means anything at all. So i wouldn't say she died before the MCI. I think it just doesn't make sense. How would William know how possession works if he only thing he knows is that Charlie somehow ended up in Puppet? He doesn't know stuffing is how possession happens, he learns this with the MCI. It doesn't make sense...
First of all, the colour of the eyes isn’t clear at all. Second. The point is that he DOESNT know how possession works. That’s WHY he makes the funtimes: to experiment with it. He knows the puppet is possessed, but he doesn’t know how, so he makes the funtimes to experiment with it, and then kills the mci kids to experiment further
@@ImpulseEvan37 I can see that. But the fact that the funtimes (And even the SL springlock suit) are made to kill the kids inside, implies he knows stuffing is how possession works. Besides, i preffer a narrative where the Funtimes and SL is more of William trying to recreate and take control over all the things he learned with Charlie and the MCI kids. But i have nothing against your interpretation!
I’d argue that since Charlottes body was next to the puppet Afton probably assumed proximity had something to do with it, and he makes the funtimes to kill kids because those kids would have proximity to the animatronics of course
@@ImpulseEvan37 The thing is that Afton didn't see Puppet get close to Charlie. He left after killing her, and her body was probably found much before he could realize. He probably realized it quite long after, just by seeing how weird he acted (As implied by Phone Guy in FNAF 2). Although it could still work.
hey hear me out i think she died after fnaf 2 and before fnaf 1 and the bedroom could mean that cc just reliving his memory by cassidy by sire squawks i think she died after the mci and dci heck the baby could be the recreation ofthe puppet after seen it in action in save them
Elizabeth dies before the victim thats why william is a little insaine then the Victim dies an william loses it plus in the lore Elizabeth is older than the victim and the victim was never scared of animatronics but he saw Elizabeth die and got tramatized from it an micheal got hit hard from Elizabeths death so he took his rage out on the victim with pranks
3:48 I do believe that Sister location happens after fnaf 1, but I think that the facility opened sometime around 1987, making Elizabeth die around 1987. I believe that she was seven years old when she died because her height is 3'9, the average height for a seven-year-old. That would mean that she is born in 1980, making her three years old during the fnaf4 minigames. I also believe that she is absent from the minigames because I also think that fnaf4 takes place during the summer, meaning that Elizabeth could have been at daycare or summer school, and William thought that his sons were old enough to take care of themselves. That is, of course, if Elizabeth is the youngest child, and BV is older. I believe BV is older because in the curse of dreadbear, you can find a cake with seven candles on it, which I think means that BV was turning 7. you might think that is a little old for such a crybaby, but remember that the in the fnaf movie, the actor that plays Garret (his movie stand in), Lucas Grant, is seven years old. Those are my thoughts on the two youngest Afton kids' ages. Michael is a bit trickier to figure out. But using the story Step Closer, he is 15 years old. I hope you enjoyed my mini theory.
Fazbear's family' dinner and circus baby world we're made around the same time that obvious Afton is an genius who was jealous of Henry because of his creations and ideas and was always ahead of him William found out about reament because of his creations the Funtimes and knew the victims possessed the animatronics that's why he went back to destroy the Freddy gang in sister location we see the Fazbear's plushie next to an wackie talkie with cams that Afton spying on his son and speaking through to him now why would he need to do that if something already didn't happened to one of his kids and why is cc scared of the animatronics the only thing that's disprove this is the Funtimes being more advanced then the FFD animatronics but Afton is more creative then Henry and spends his nights and days time working on his creations
So he was jealous of Henry, Henry is the one that should be jealous, in 1983 a man made super technological robots and he just make suits in your theory, that doesn't make sense
@@8The-angel8 they both made suits and animatronics the heck you on Henry would have no reason to be jealous of afton since they both worked together matter of fact he would be happy because he knows that both their business are going to do amazing Henry isn't like him
@@drlolzsilllyz Afton kills for power curiosity experiments entertainment and for his family honestly I don't think he's love them but doesn't want them to fully die as they can be useful to him or use them for tests and they can continue the bloodline with their kids maybe continuing where he left off
@@Nicholas-vm6mh i feel like william would not know about remmant until he kills charile that needs a motive and the motive could be cc since its a prank not a planned death
I think Elizabeth not being in FNAF 4 is easily explained by what we’re given about her personality in Sister Location. She loves her dad, likes animatronics and obviously is aware of her dad’s work life (by knowing details about Circus Baby before opening.) So, I argue that Elizabeth goes to work with their dad during FNAF 4 and since CC is scared of the animatronics, he stays home and gets watched by Mike.
As far as when Elizabeth died, I’m staunchly team “Scott doesn’t have details planned out until he starts writing each individual game and then finds ways to connect them to past games”, so I think shoehorning it in is literally part of the territory.
I really like that theory. Great job, man! However, I think I know another possibility. we know that in some way, elizabeth is connected to Vanessa. Whether Vanessa is a rebuilt adult robot version of Elizabeth, we don't know, but there definitely is a connection somewhere. We learn in vanessa's therapy tapes that her parents kept fighting over who gained custody over her. Elizabeth and her parents could have been in the divorce court around the time of fnaf4. Idk, just a theory
@@joshuamcgonagle5455 Maybe! Honestly, I have the unpopular opinion of loving “humans are robots” theories like Gregbot and Vanessabot, so I’m definitely rooting for your theory. The only kink I see is with your last part: we see a purple guy with a worker’s tag putting someone in a Freddy springlock during CC’s cutscenes. That was probably William, working while the kids were around. Ofc, that doesn’t rule out the possibility that he was at court on the days where CC’s cutscenes were exclusively at home.
The fact that there’s a toy in the guest room is actually pretty realistic. Kids tend to just… do that. They pick up their toy from where it’s normally stored, and they run off to a random room in the house to play with it. If CC is younger than 10, that checks out for him.
the guest room is obviously girly though, which is kind of weird. most guest rooms wouldn't be made for a specific gender.
I'm a firm believer that Elizibeth died before Bite Victim mostly because of the line in TFTPP about how the springlock suits were discontinued around the same time they were created, Circus Baby's had a spring lock suit.
The Springlocks were discontinued in 1985, though, not because of the bite (the bite wasn’t even a springlock failure).
Besides that, Charlotte and C.C die really close to each other in terms of time (both die in the Fallfest 83) and William creating killer animatronics before killing his first victim doesn’t make any sense. And in the Novels, Elizabeth dies after Charlie.
Yeah, exactly! And the fact that Elizabeth was killed by Baby to begin with! Ol' Willy A had to have built her and the other Funtimes with Remnant in mind, which he wouldn't have been able to if Charlotte hadn't died before her. And I already have a slew of evidence that Charlotte died AFTER the Bite of 83 which I am willing to share!
I was always on the fence about Elizabeth dying first (every time I saw a "Order of Aftons' Deaths" video, I was always like, "Wait, how/why is SHE the first?") Now though, there is no conceivable method anybody has that will EVER get me to believe she died first
@@salmanalshatti9209okay but what happened first, the MCI (which happened in 1985) or Elizabeth’s death?
@@lachiedawae3177 MCI
I like the idea of Elizabeth not being born yet. Great job, man!
With FNAF that's always a possibility
This has been an idea of mine that i had for some time, and, honestly, it solves a lot of issues.
Nah bro she died shortly after the MCI which happened in 1985. And in the fourth closet, she is in kindergarten, making her born in 1980, making her a toddler during Fnaf 4
@@cheyenna.mcgonagleSince when was the trilogy complete accurate when it comes to the games timeline?
@@amphibiland7315 since the fact that she sounds really young in her voice
lines, still calling her dad daddy, if we do the math correctly we can find out that in the mini game where she dies that each line is 2.6 inches, and since it is confirmed that Baby is 7’2”, we find out that Elizabeth is 3’9”, and since she is British if she is the average height for her age, we find out that she is 6 years old.
Just my opinion, you can have your own
To add to what you said about Elizabeth's room having a bed but no crib, babies don't transfer to beds until at the youngest 18 months old and as Scott is a father I doubt he would have overlooked this detail. Either Elizabeth is too young to be left unsupervised, she's there and is younger so could be the girl in the garden at a stretch, or she's already gone. Also if FNAF 4 is set in 1983, how do we have a disassembled Mangle? Is it a model? Could be, but wouldn't it be Toy Foxy as Mangle only came about once kids got hold of it.
Why would the Toy animatronics be called Toys? Just let it marinate for a moment.
I thought dream theory had been completely debunked by Scott? Unless there is another theory I haven't heard of. Can you explain as I think I've missed something?
William having created the funtimes between 1985 and 1987 wouldn't make sense to me, since from what we were shown in the games he only discovered the possession of the animaronics in the Save Them minigame from FNAF 2, with Withered Freddy's attack.
It could be possible that maybe Elizabeth was born when Crying Child was already dead and maybe Elizabeth's death was more later in the timeline then we all thought
But I'll simply go by your theory
impossible because in fnaf 4 as cc we can go to her room
I think the more important question is WHY did elizabeth afton die? WHO did elizabeth afton die? WHERE did elizabeth afton die? WHAT did elizabeth afton die? and sometimes Y did elizabeth afton die?
Why: because she’s a dumb little sh!t who didn’t listen to her dad, she f@cked around and found out
Who: BABAY!!!!
Where: circus baby’s pizza world, or a grassy field if the mini games are canon
What: baby gave her ice cream, then yoinked her with the stomach hand, guessing she snapped her neck since baby said the screaming stopped, unlike that one story with Funtime Freddy
Y: because that’s what aftons do, thanks Willy
When: idk I was too busy writing this I missed the video 😂😂
I'm honestly stuck in-between Elizabeth2nd (after Charlie but before BV) and Elizabeth3rd (after Charlie and BV). I can't say I'm leaning toward either since that'd be a complete lie.
I had a theory where Vanny,
Is The Spirit of Elizabeth.
Possessing Vanessa,
or Whoever is in that White Rabbit Suit.
To be like her father.
Elizabeth is Too Loyal to Her Farther,
Her Spirit Would Not have Passed On.
One of these days we have to get some more clues to Circus Baby and Elizabeth pre Sister Location. Maybe the Circus and/or Carnival themed FNAF figures we got what a year ago, two, now will be able to get their spotlight and help fill in the gaps.
I’ve always been a firm believer that Elizabeth died after the MCI and Charlie’s death and that her death is when William discovered Remnant.
What if Crying Child, in the cutscenes, is in Foxy bro's room and the "girls room" WAS his bedroom before he died. FNAF4 is largely focused on the idea of everything being scrambled, or jumbled; the gameplay sections are scrambled; it's a child's perspective, an adult's (queen size - two pillows side by side) bed with young children's toys in the room and FNAF1 phone calls in the background. What if CC's sections, the cutscenes, are also mixed up; he's remember incidences leading up to his death, but what if he is doing so while also seeing the present; maybe he's crying because something doesn't "feel right" and things have changed; there is now a little girl's room, Maybe Mike now keeps CC's plushies in his bedroom (the plushies book-end the first cut scene as appearing in a physical space and then lastly shown in the void)? Maybe the year 1983 is connected to when CC died, OR MAYBE it's the current year of the real world? Maybe the children he talks to outside are other spirits also trapped around the area of the Family Diner; also unaware they are dead, saying "meta" things because of how everything is scrambled?
It's pretty far out there of an idea, but it all goes back to the question of why Crying Child STARTS the game as already being a constantly crying child? He is emotive enough to visually respond to things happening around him, but he is automatically always crying no matter what the context; it's not even a solid piece of his sprite; it's an animated effect! I just think this, whatever causes him to be "the crying child" is a core answer to other questions unsolved about FNAF4.
In the fourth closet, Elizabeth for sure dies post MCI, because the Circus Baby robot is taken after Henry is dead. Besides that, great video! Been binging over the last few days 😁👍
I really wish people would stop trying to make Abby and Elizabeth the same person. Maybe a parallel, I'll give you that, but only partly. Truly, though, they're greatly different. And saying "Abby" can be short for "Elizabeth" is the biggest leap I've ever seen, because plain and simple it's short for Abigail. Liz, Lizzy, Liza, Eliza, and Beth can ALL be short for Elizabeth, but they'd pick... Abby? I don't think so lol. And saying that "Abby" can be rearranged to be "Baby", while technically true, I'd bite my own frontal lobe out if that ends up being intentional because I personally find it a little dumb and on-the-nose if its true.
Also, the idea that FNAF 4 takes place before sister location could definitely be plausible, but crying child being born and dying all before Elizabeth is even born? The only way that idea works is if we assume CC and Elizabeth aren't related and CC and Foxy Bro aren't Afton's children. Because, if Elizabeth isn't born yet, who's girl bedroom do we enter in FNAF 4? Certainly not Mrs. Afton, it's too childish. A secret 4th Afton daughter? Not impossible, but no evidence supports it so far.
My long rant put aside, I still really like and appreciate the video as always, even if I don't fully agree with some points. Keep being rad, Evan.
I 100% agree with this theory, plus the girls room can easily just be Elizabeth’s room when she stays over at the mothers house as full custody doesn't mean that the other parent doesn't get to spend time with the children
I think Elizabeth Afton died in 1983, shortly after Evan died in the aftermath of the Bite of ‘83, and shortly before William Afton killed Charlotte Emily in the same year.
I can’t stress this enough and I keep seeing people use this as evidence. In ITP, the book and the game, Oswald never goes back in time. When he ‘goes back’ to 1985, it is really just a hallucination created by Elenore. Meaning, she can get a lot of things wrong. Also, in the Fazbear Frights universe, assuming that Splitline is not true, then Elenore was not even around in 1985.
Also, because Cbear opened directly after Cbpw, it does not matter if Hand Unit is talking about Cbpw or Cbear as they both happen around the same time, AKA after Freddy’s closes. Meaning Elizebeth dies 1985-1987 (probably 1986 for simplicity sake)
Into the pit is obviously not time travel. But it’s also not a hallucination. It is a memory. It is a warped memory, but only with the way the events play out. There’s no reason other events of the series would bleed into that. Also, Eleanor WAS around in 1985 BECAUSE into the pit is a memory relating to her. Nothing suggests she wasn’t. Also, as I said in the video, hand unit at the beginning of sister location was likely referring to the reopening of CBEAR rather than the original opening since as I said Dittophobia indicates it shut down and reopened again
Great video, covered all the options well imo! I do get the reasoning for placing her after the Bite because of the CBPW switch, but ultimately the reason I place her before is because of something you didn't touch on much here: the Funtime Foxy toy. To me that implies the Funtimes already existed, which is consistent with CBPW having a spring lock suit (of course we don't know when they were retired for certain, I just mean that it suggests it's somewhere relatively early in the timeline which makes it more plausible it's _this_ early in the timeline). What you suggest is pretty compelling though and I'm going to need to think on this more.
My biggest issue with elizabeth dying before the mci is simply the motive for william to build baby, a giant murder bot. To me, the puppets possesion is hardly a strong enough motive to behin experiments, but william is an insane psycho path, and killing five kids to see if they also posses makes far greater sense, and thus elaborates on his experiments of posesion with the funtimes.
Nobody ever talks about the girl that’s in the FRONT YARD of the house with the rest of her toys. That WAS supposed to be the sister. She left Foxy in her room because it was broken and then she broke her chica toy outside playing in the houses front yard.
That’s a playground.
@@ImpulseEvan37so ?? The girl in the playground is probably been raccooned to be Elizabeth
It’s not the front yard of the afton house. It’s literally just a park. Notice there’s a fence blocking off the house but opening from the street? House yards are the exact opposite. And nothing about that girl resembles Elizabeth or implies they are the same person, especially since Elizabeth has green eyes as a very defining feature while that girl has blue eyes
@ImpulseEvan37 #1 thet benig a park dos not mean it is impossible for the girl benig Elizabeth because girls back then woed go outside # 2her eye color dos not matter because Elizabeth wasn't a carecter at thet time so she probably was redcond to be Elizabeth (sorry for my English it is my second language)
Badway Mike sken coler lately canegd 4 times so eye color benign different dos literally means nothing
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If Elizabeth wasn't born yet, then how could there have been a broken toy? I just recently posted my headcanon on the Afton family timeline. In it, I included that Elizabeth died in 1985 and that she was born in 1975. Also, since Pigtail girl isn't Elizabeth (which I only just figured out) I believe that Toy Girl is Elizabeth. They both wear pink shirts, seem pretty cheerful, both have red bows in their hair, and both have blonde hair.
Toy girl has blue eyes. Elizabeth has green eyes. It’s as simple as that.
Youre getting better and better at theory crafting, but some constructive criticism: youre speaking way too fast, i had to check my playback speed i thought i sped it up on accident. Youre throwing a ton of information at the audience, which is great but the audience needs time to hear it, process it, sometimes rebut it then reach a resolution to move forward to the next point. Keep up the good work, just pace yourself a bit
A simple answer as to why Elisabeth is not in FNAF4 is because she wasn’t created yet as Scott didn’t initially plan Sister Location.
He still planned a sister, so her absence is absolutely notable
Or the Pink/Red Bedroom could be Mike’s/Older Brother’s. Think about it, Mike’s Red Bed + BV’s Blue Bed = Purple, and William is Purple.
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@@Nicholas-vm6mhwhy
@@drlolzsilllyz because that's obviously an girl room and there's no hints to Michael having an older brother doesn't make any sense to even believe this could be an possibility
yeah, i believe that Elizabeth was the very first one to die, and she's the one who gave William Afton the Idea of spirits and Possessions, she always sees herself as circus baby and someone who tried so hard to get her father's attention.
In mangle FNAF AR teasers it shows Elizabeths room and it contains a crib rather than a bed
There's a ar teaser picture that show a mangle in a room and in the background there's a crib
Elizabeth died before cc just read my other comment
I think the Afton hasn't made any of the animatronics. I think he is like Dr. Wiley in that he simply steals Dr. Lights eight robot Masters and makes adjustments to them to make them hurt Humans Dr light here being Henry
The part in Dittophobia about tracable phones is often forgotten. Tracable phones being a thing sets the story in the late '90s, or later.
It could also be set in the early 2000s since Rory seems to know what a website is (based on him not acting suprised when he hears about it).
This doesn't debunk anything in your theory, I'm just letting everyone know.
Tbh, I don't think it matters that much when traceable phones were created irl. In FNaF we have animatronics with facial recognition in 1987 and a shape shifting endoskeleton that was created in 1984 if not earlier. So I don't think we can apply irl technology progress to FNaF.
in my personal headcanon she dies in 1986 so before fnaf 2 but after fnaf 4. but honestly idk which one i agree with more in this video for the theories so i guess maybe the last one? i don't know, i do think though that she isn't dead in fnaf 4 just because she isn't in the game, i know we can just come up with a good reason but we also just kind of have to remember that originally fnaf 4 was suppose to be the final story or at least in a way the final story and fnaf world was just a side upgrade until the whole baby thing was figured out because to my knowledge because fans complained about fnaf 4 and world. not sure but i think the most likely option is if wiliam maybe had shared custody of the kids but on separate dates idk maybe elizabeth was just with her mom and would just go to the party on her brother's birthday or something. also if her room was just a guest room imagine if that room was used for charlie before she died like, if he had to babysit or something.
The toy in Elizabeth’s room is clearly parts of mangle which means she must’ve been alive when fnaf 2 was being 1987. Which means she was alive through 83-87 which I say she probably died at the launch of fnaf 2/sister location with them both taking place after the OG Freddy’s closes
Im sorry what? The toy is in Elizabeths room in 1983
Amazing theory but there are some problems with it 1. The pizzeria is pizza simulator is like one room if elizabeth died in a room full of people everyone would see her and the pizzeria wouldn't close because of gas leaks but because of Elizabeth's death 2. It's possible that william never made the animatronics to kill and Elizabeth's death was just an accident. The reason william didn't let her go near her is because it was a test day and william wasn't sure if the animatronics were in proper form. Have a nice day
In both security breach and the tales epilogues it is shown that there is more than one room in fnaf 6. Plus, I don’t Elizabeth died by accident considering she was made to kill. Sure that could’ve been added later, but there isn’t really any indication of that
2:51 wait a minute… THERE’S A MOVIE NOVE-
Perfect timing to upload this.
I personally believe that Elizabeth died after the events of FNAF 1
Oh no I’ve gone cross eyed
A week before Garrett (don’t at me in the comments and say the fnaf 4 kid is called Evan , the piece of evidence for that is in fazbears frights and fnaf movie appears to be more concrete).
The poster in the ITP game does not show CB with green eyes, which is a crucial detail in her design. It that poster, her eyes are grayish/blue (The effects of the trailer make it difficult to see). So it is probably an advertisement for the restaurant, if it even means anything at all. So i wouldn't say she died before the MCI. I think it just doesn't make sense. How would William know how possession works if he only thing he knows is that Charlie somehow ended up in Puppet? He doesn't know stuffing is how possession happens, he learns this with the MCI. It doesn't make sense...
First of all, the colour of the eyes isn’t clear at all. Second. The point is that he DOESNT know how possession works. That’s WHY he makes the funtimes: to experiment with it. He knows the puppet is possessed, but he doesn’t know how, so he makes the funtimes to experiment with it, and then kills the mci kids to experiment further
@@ImpulseEvan37 I can see that. But the fact that the funtimes (And even the SL springlock suit) are made to kill the kids inside, implies he knows stuffing is how possession works. Besides, i preffer a narrative where the Funtimes and SL is more of William trying to recreate and take control over all the things he learned with Charlie and the MCI kids. But i have nothing against your interpretation!
I’d argue that since Charlottes body was next to the puppet Afton probably assumed proximity had something to do with it, and he makes the funtimes to kill kids because those kids would have proximity to the animatronics of course
@@ImpulseEvan37 The thing is that Afton didn't see Puppet get close to Charlie. He left after killing her, and her body was probably found much before he could realize. He probably realized it quite long after, just by seeing how weird he acted (As implied by Phone Guy in FNAF 2). Although it could still work.
She died outside his restaurant tho, so even tho he probably didn’t find her, he definitely would know about it
I think C.C. is Henry’s kid, and Mike was his babysitter
mike has to be aftons son and the movie says other whys
NO.
@@drlolzsilllyz C.C. being Henry's kid doesn't change Mike from being an Afton, Mike is the cruel babysitter is what I was saying
hey hear me out i think she died after fnaf 2 and before fnaf 1 and the bedroom could mean that cc just reliving his memory by cassidy by sire squawks i think she died after the mci and dci heck the baby could be the recreation ofthe puppet after seen it in action in save them
I think she died after Afton and his wife split up. And she took custody of her then she died after
What if they were already divorced and the mom had custody of Elizbeth an the dad got the boys?
Elizabeth dies before the victim thats why william is a little insaine then the Victim dies an william loses it plus in the lore Elizabeth is older than the victim and the victim was never scared of animatronics but he saw Elizabeth die and got tramatized from it an micheal got hit hard from Elizabeths death so he took his rage out on the victim with pranks
Why would William make killer robots so so so early in the timeline not even after Charlie died?
Also, cc saw something innocent but saw it as something bad. That doesn’t align with circus baby scooping Elizabeth
yeah and cb would of said and then a little boy walked well it happend and he was crying never happend@@jxllobunzzz
@@drlolzsilllyz well in this theory cc likely was hiding so baby couldn’t see
that has no proof at all@@jxllobunzzz
but then there's one problem though, why nightmare fredbear and nightmare has teeth on it s stomach
I’m gonna be real, I do not and never have believed that meant anything
Uh she died before the 4th closet
3:48
I do believe that Sister location happens after fnaf 1, but I think that the facility opened sometime around 1987, making Elizabeth die around 1987. I believe that she was seven years old when she died because her height is 3'9, the average height for a seven-year-old. That would mean that she is born in 1980, making her three years old during the fnaf4 minigames. I also believe that she is absent from the minigames because I also think that fnaf4 takes place during the summer, meaning that Elizabeth could have been at daycare or summer school, and William thought that his sons were old enough to take care of themselves. That is, of course, if Elizabeth is the youngest child, and BV is older. I believe BV is older because in the curse of dreadbear, you can find a cake with seven candles on it, which I think means that BV was turning 7. you might think that is a little old for such a crybaby, but remember that the in the fnaf movie, the actor that plays Garret (his movie stand in), Lucas Grant, is seven years old. Those are my thoughts on the two youngest Afton kids' ages. Michael is a bit trickier to figure out. But using the story Step Closer, he is 15 years old. I hope you enjoyed my mini theory.
Maybe William got divorced and his wife took Elizabeth with her
But then how did her dad have her during work?
Nope wrong read my other comment she died before cc
Fazbear's family' dinner and circus baby world we're made around the same time that obvious Afton is an genius who was jealous of Henry because of his creations and ideas and was always ahead of him William found out about reament because of his creations the Funtimes and knew the victims possessed the animatronics that's why he went back to destroy the Freddy gang in sister location we see the Fazbear's plushie next to an wackie talkie with cams that Afton spying on his son and speaking through to him now why would he need to do that if something already didn't happened to one of his kids and why is cc scared of the animatronics the only thing that's disprove this is the Funtimes being more advanced then the FFD animatronics but Afton is more creative then Henry and spends his nights and days time working on his creations
So he was jealous of Henry, Henry is the one that should be jealous, in 1983 a man made super technological robots and he just make suits in your theory, that doesn't make sense
@@8The-angel8 they both made suits and animatronics the heck you on Henry would have no reason to be jealous of afton since they both worked together matter of fact he would be happy because he knows that both their business are going to do amazing Henry isn't like him
they bove worked together yeah the funtimes were only made by afton and theres no motive for afton to kill
@@drlolzsilllyz Afton kills for power curiosity experiments entertainment and for his family honestly I don't think he's love them but doesn't want them to fully die as they can be useful to him or use them for tests and they can continue the bloodline with their kids maybe continuing where he left off
@@Nicholas-vm6mh i feel like william would not know about remmant until he kills charile that needs a motive and the motive could be cc since its a prank not a planned death
bro, i mean this in the nicest way but you talk way too fast.
Listen faster :)
There's something such as playback speed lmao, plus I'm sure he's not actually talking too fast