Are Wildcat Cartridges Overrated
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ค. 2024
- Welcome to Ron Spomer Outdoors! In this video, we're taking a closer look at wildcat cartridges and asking the question: are they overrated?
Wildcat cartridges have been around for a long time and are popular among a certain subset of shooters and hunters. But are they really worth the hype? In this video, we'll examine some of the most popular wildcat cartridges and compare them to their more mainstream counterparts. We'll also talk about the pros and cons of using a wildcat cartridge, and whether they're really necessary for most hunting or shooting scenarios.
Whether you're a seasoned hunter or a curious shooter, this video is a must-watch for anyone interested in the world of wildcat cartridges. So sit back, relax, and let's dive into the world of wildcats and find out if they're truly overrated. Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more great content from Ron Spomer Outdoors!
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely. - กีฬา
Wildcats are the reason we have alot of great cartridges today.
100%
They are impressive. I'm really surprised that more of them didn't become standardized.
🗣takes Gun Writers to TALK UP a cartridge to get them standardized. 🤠
@@tonywoconish6695 you ain't lying.
If you accept P.O. Ackley’s cartridges as wildcats, then there’s another aspect that was the driver to improving cartridges that you missed- controlled case stretch.
The only problem with wildcats is that all the cool ideas I've thought up always end up already existing.
Not true, Well, today there isn't much you can try to make a better mousetrap. But, those wildcats of not to long ago are in production today. Where did the PRC or the 6.5 craze came from ?. It will never end. But please never stop trying. Maybe soon there will be a 5000/7000 fps Legate 6,5 cartridge with your name on it 👍Forgot about the 277 Sig. Maybe the way to go?
Story of my life.
6.5 Viking ikr
I know the feeling.
Diesel rotary, opposing piston engines, feel like a bit of a fool when you talk up an idea then someone pipes up
”yeah, they did that 60 years ago.”
It's all been done, especially the GOOD ideas. It's still fun to play around with, as long as you've got the $$ to pay for it all. In the end, each wildcat is just another metallic cartridge, pushing a bullet out of a rifled barrel. All that really changes is how fast your MV is and how long your brass/barrel will last.
Wildcats brings back fond memories of reading my Pop’s gun mags back when I was a child and then watching, learning, and even helping load up some .222 Remington ammo to go crow busting on a Saturday morning. I sure wish I could do that again with my Pop.
The king of wildcats would have to be Roy Weatherby. Back in the day he not only experimented with H&H cases pushing for higher velocities but took that knowledge and with his marketing skills turn it to a major company.. one example was his 7 mm weatherby came out in the late 40’s long before Remington 7mm… he was ahead of his time
Nothing that Roy did was original. He was just a master of marketing.
Thank you Ron for the list of cartridges and wildcatters. I believe that the wildcatters over the years had a great deal of influence on the current cartridge developments that the manufacturers are making. That search for the ultimate cartridge is never ending.
Can we at least agree that you need the biggest possible cartridge for cougars? They are the only dangerous game that can take your house and half your retirement.
😂
I was in AK thinking about big bears. I had a 8mm Mauser that was oversize but shot good . I bought some .330 bullets . I shot a bunch of lead slugs with valve grinding compound. I finished it with polishing compound from midway . It worked.
A wildcat (cougar) once approached me outside a bar. It was dark and couldn't really see, so I ran.
😂
2000 years ago, in Gaul, probably:
Roman Soldier 1: "....and then I took 2 shekels worth of weight off each side of this gladius, then reduced the point taper slightly. This sword is now a dream, bro. Swings faster, penetrates deeper."
Roman soldier 2: "So, does it kill faster than a standard gladius? Are the enemy any deader?"
RS1: "You are completely missing the point! Flatter swing is a measurably faster kill..."
And so on for miles over the campaign.
My great grandfather had a 25-06 variant he called the "25 super" my father still has that rifle and you can shoot the 25-06 through it but the shoulder is a bit different
The 25 Souper is a .308 necked down to .25 caliber. One of the 25s I'd love to have.
Thanks Ron, your videos are a treat! Always informative and loaded with historical information. 😊
Always great information!
One I know of are the 585 African Express Designed and build by a South African Professional Hunter , Brad Ralston. He took the 585 Nyati and change the rim form a rebated rim to a full sized rim.
The 585 Nyati are one of most powerful cartridges one can still carry and shoulder-fire.
It can produce 10 130ft *lbf at 2 466 ft/s from a 750gr bullet
I had the great fortune of holding a friends custom in that chambering, RIP Tom.
I have a rifle that P.O. Ackley built in 1964 for a friend of mine, it is a 6.5 on a 06 platform. Amazing rifle.
Ackley was the king
I have a custom Mauser in 6.5-06. Great shooting caliber.
BEST OPENER YET!!! Thanks, Sir! great stuff
As always, great video Ron! A few guys that I thought of that I didn’t see on the list was Otto Bock (for the 9.3x62), Pro Martusheff and Robert Vestal (contemporaries who together and separate have done some interesting ones), and another one that probably needs it’s own video is Edward Vom Hofe, as his cartridges are really interesting.
The 7x66 is particularly interesting for its fire forming double-Venturi shoulder
I have a 6.5-06, 30-06AI and 338-06. All very fun and built on Argentinian Mauser actions.
OMG, Ron, I've been waiting for this!
My friend like 25 yrs ago bought a 300 Jarret. Based on a 8mm Rem case we had to neck down and fireform the brass. Like 200 rnds as he was headed to South Africa. No load ballistics to go by, we used 300 WBY data to create loads for his trip. Amazing round, he took 14 critters on that safari
Hey Ron, awesome info as always. I once worked in Dowgiac Michigan with an Ole Chap that was acquainted with A. O. Niedner; He always pronounced his name (Needner). That Ole Chap also referred me to a guy that said back in the day, he was one of Niedner’s gunsmith’s. He said in addition to 25-06, Niedner had something to do with the development of the 22-250. Btw, he also pronounced it (Needner)
It would be "Needner" if he maintained the German pronunciation. Well, almost. German final r is diminished.
When I was young(er) I dreamt of a 243/30 30 for a TC Contender with 14" barrel. To my surprise Mr. Ackley had experimented with a 6mm/30 30 improved. That really took the wind out of my sail.
25 creed I can’t wait till it’s Saami spec.
I've got 2 wildcat cartridges, the 6.5-06 and the .338-06. I love my 6.5-06 and I just got the .338-06 and I haven't had time to play around with it yet. But sure looking forward to working on some loads for it and taking it Bear hunting this spring.
338-06 load i shoot is a 230 gr eldx with re17 @ 2800 fps. Or a 225 sst ahead of h414/w760 at same velocity
338-06 is awesome! Especially if you go the Ackley route
I love my .338-06 A-Square. 200gr Speer Hot-Cor at ~ 2,800fps using Win 760. On-game performance is phenomenal.
338-06 has been on my short list of cartridges to acquire for awhile now. Such an excellent cartridge
Hi guy, I built my 338 on a 280 case for the additional length. Works really good
Hey Ron. Years ago I bought one of those 8mm mauser Rifles at a local gun store. I paid 149.00 for it. It had the Model 98 Mauser action from CZ. I heard about guys that came back from the War with some of those and had them re-chambered in the 8mm/06. My rifle had a 29 inch barrel on it with the Bayonet and all the Military stuff that came on it. I decided to Chamber it into the 8mm/06 and sporterize the Rifle. I got a new Stock for it and did all the inletting and bedding myself. Cut the Barrel down to 27.6 inches and took off the iron sights. It turned out to be a really nice Rifle. When I was doing the load workups on it I was able to push the 150grn Hornady bullets to 3200fps. The 180 grn bullets I had would go 3020fps. Really accurate loads. I loved that gun. Guys at the range couldn't beleive what it was doing. 300 Win Mag velocities out of that cartridge was amazing. Well I sold it to a guy who uses it for Elk and Large game hunting here in Northern Utah. I love to Wildcat. Always have.
Nice work, Dennis.
Shooting a lot of TC contenders, I love wildcats. 270 REN a 22 hornet necked up to 270 basically a straight wall case. The set of TCU cartridges 7mm, 6.5mm, 6mm, 257 and 30TCU all based on necked up 223. The herrett calibers 30 and 357 based on the 30-30. Then look at all the JDJ rounds. I probably have as many wildcats as "approved" rounds.
Thank you Ron for another great video.Many important cartridges have been spawned from the wildcatting process. I'm in the planning/dreaming process for my own wildcat. The only hint I have given anybody is that it is based on the 26 Nosler. May God bless!
Man, gotta love when the "Planning/Dreaming" phase starts coming to an end and it starts to become real... can't wait to get my next rifle lol!
Oh yes I know it! Doing the research on a new rifle is 80% of the fun! Balancing your needs with cost and all the technical details. Same thing for reloading equipment. It's almost like an addiction 🤣
Great subject and video.
Ron this will be a great one! Looking forward to it!!!
Sometime I really would like you to compare the old Winchester .348 to some of the more available like cartridges when you are able!
Was just looking at a 348 Win. yesterday.
Yea the 348 was a neat one
Its a lever gun round I think it would be awesom in a bolt action with sharp bullets
@@warrengreen3217 I actually like round nose and flat nose bullets, their impact is way more dramatic than any of the pointed bullets, including ballistic tips. I hunt in thick timber and large blood trails and or animals that are dead right there is a must, therefore big bores, and blunt bullets.
@@forrestwright5981 for hunting a round nose or flat nose are the best hunting rounds where shots are 100yards or less every deer I shot with 30-30 drop in there tracks most deer I shoot with my 308 or 30-06 with pointed bullets run about 30yard then drop if they dont go straight down which is not that big of a deal but round nose bullets diffantly hit hard with knock down power
Ty ron great vdo what i like about you is if someone disagrees with you. You post it not afraid of people not agreeing with you. Unlike some other gun guys. I wont name the other gun person but it does start with gun. Ty
Thanks Ron for talking about the wildcat cartridges , it takes shooting and reloading to a new level . I have done several 338 x 8mm Mag , 7 STW , 6 x 284 and 6 x 45 . I wish you could, on one of your shows talk a little on the 6 x45 . A wonderful varmint ( or target ) cartridge that works well in a bolt action and the AR platform and all you have to do is neck up the 223 to 6 mm . It works best with 80 to 55 gr bullets ! It is a very accurate cartridge and super easy to load and uses the same powder as the 223 ! Thanks again for your informative programs !……
I have a 400 Whelen and it is a very fun rifle. The 400 Whelen has had some rough history but the late Michael Petrov did some very in depth research on the 400 whelen and found the truth and how it was to be made properly. My rifle is built to the original specs. that Mr. Petrov found (now often called the Petrov version) and it shoots grate.
Awesome show!
I posted the following report on a reloading forum on 1 Apr 2008:
I'd like to report on a project I'm working on with a fellow shooter. We decided to work up a new wildcat using a Model 98 Mauser action and the .50 BMG cartridge. We necked the case down to .17 caliber. That was easy enough, although we had to turn the case neck down to remove considerable brass thickness. We bought some custom dies from RCBS and loaded up 20 rounds.
Next was adapting the Mauser action to accommodate the new wildcat round. We had to lengthen and widen the action and magazine box to accommodate the length of the loaded cartridge. We also had to modify the bolt face and extractor to fit the case head. With that accomplished we installed and chambered a new .17-caliber barrel.
Now, off to the range. Velocities were off scale for my chronometer, so we borrowed two more. By putting the three chronometers in series, we were able to measure the bullet velocity at an average of 9,419 fps. After 5 rounds, we inspected the bore and found considerable copper fouling. We believe this is due to the partial vaporization of the bullets at this high velocity. (We estimate that only 3% of the bullet reaches the target.)
To reduce fouling, we decided to try the opposite of moly-coating bullets. We disassembled the 15 remaining cartridges and treated the bullets with a thin coating of epoxy, then rolled the bullets in fine sand (kinda like breading chicken). When the coating cured, we loaded up 20 rounds and headed for the range again.
The treatment seemed to reduce copper fouling a bit with a sacrifice of velocity (down to 8,979 fps), but now were getting some bore erosion from an undetermined cause.
This new wildcat round shows considerable promise, but more study is required. We'll experiment with different sand grits for the bullet coating to find something that controls copper fouling and bullet vaporization without the bore erosion and loss of velocity. We'll try different powders and bullet weights and maybe even some cast lead bullets.
Until we publish a full report, we recommend you don't try this at home. We plan to publish our full report in about one year -- on April 1, 2009.
Note: On 13 Jan 2011 another website, Everyday, No Days Off Gun Blog posted a page on a similar wildcat cartridge. So, there seems to be some real interest in this concept. My cartridge is a bit different from Mike's in that mine appears to have a longer neck (0.199") and a 30-degree shoulder.
So you made the bullet into sand paper and then wondered why your getting wear? Besides the pressure would be off the charts Kentucky Ballistics style so I call BS across the board.
@@jaydunbar7538 Did you not catch the date? 🤣🤣
@@jaydunbar7538 Go back to the start of my comment and see if anything pops out to you.
That was very creative and funny! Even better, because someone didn’t realize it was humor!
would love to see you make a video about the .30 carbine ammo.
Best wildcat that I have is a 30-338 Winchester magnum. Better then the 300 Winchester magnum with less powder.
Would love to see a show about Ken Waters and the 7-30 Waters
Good informative video. Seeing as how there is already a cartridge for everything from squirrels to elephants and paper targets, I do not think there is a need (or a market) for anymore "Wildcats" or any new "Factory" cartridge either. 🤯
You mentioned Gibbs and his family of cartridges. I just recently read an old shooting/hunting/ammo magazine that had an article about Gibbs and his cartridges and maybe his rifles also. Seemed like he was a little bit "tilt" in the cranium. 🤪 He would tell customers what to do and what to buy. He seemed to think that he knew better than other folks. irrc, he hid or destroyed his cartridges and rifle plans/sketches/dimensions so that after he died, nobody could duplicate them or buy them from his "Estate". Maybe the word is "eccentric".
Great stuff Ron! 👍😃✌️🇺🇸
Thanks Ron. Lots of fun reliving the past. Lazzeroni cartridges were interesting as well.
Yes that Lazeronni made great pizza 🍕
Porter made up a .308 Ackley improved cartridge necked down to .277 caliber that he called the .270 Ackley. He made up a really hot load that he chambered in the Carcano that shaded the .270 Winchester by about 500 FPS. To do this he loaded it to what we would call 65,000 PSI. He rated it in Copper Units and told me that the Carcano action was the only one he would trust it in and showed me a destroyed Weatherby with the action blown out. I told him that I'd stick with the factory .270 and he said "That's probably the smartest thing you've ever said". Porter was a great guy who was always willing to share advice with a teen age boy. I had never met his wife, but at his funeral she said he had talked with her about me.
This video prompts my response. I collect cartridges as a hobby. Several years ago I ran across a container of mixed cartridges, mostly unknown to me and I bought them all. Amongst them was a 30 Newton. That thing appears to be quite a heavy hitter.
In this mix is also a few 22 HP or 22 Savage HP rounds. These also look like pretty powerful 22 caliber rounds. Maybe even as powerful as the 222. They're rimmed cartridges so were probably made for lever action rifles or maybe even single shot guns.
Ron, would it be possible to get some videos speaking about some of these obsolete cartridges and what happened to them?
Fireforming, to me, is one of the coolest things about wildcats. I just had some quality time with a falling block converting 30-30 winchester cartridges into empty 300 Bench Rest Magnum cases.
One wildcat I'd love to see you do is the 35 sambar aka 35 wsm
Great show.
Nice to hear you mention north idaho, I'm a native here for 42 years.
I have a rifle in 220 Wilson arrow! Thank you for mentioning it!!
Hey Ron, thanks for answering my question. But i still have another one what would be a good first hunting rifle under $500. But a cartridge able to shoot out to 500 yards, thanks very much. Keep up the great work.
Personally, I bought a Howa 1500 in .308. I use it here in Namibia for Gemsbok and Warthogs all the time and couldn't be happier. I've got it in an MDT XRS chassis, which makes it much more comfortable than the polymer stock it comes with, but also much heavier. I also put an APW Warbird can on it.
I worked up a load with 165gr Nosler AccuBonds that I shot a .45" 9 shot group and I've gotten a .175" 3 shot group! I also shoot 168gr ELD-M, but haven't experimented with them yet. I've shot milk jugs out to 800m (nearly 900yds) and have taken a Warthog at 290m (around 325yds).
If you're looking to target shoot out to 500, then "anything" would work. If you're looking to hunt out to 500, then look at ballistic tables and look for cartridge and bullet combinations that still have enough bullet speed and energy out at that distance - general rule of thumb is 1800-2100fps minimum, depending on the bullet design, some even as low as 1500fps and some as high as 2300fps. For energy, on Deer I'd want 1000ft-lbs and Elk I'd want 1500ft-lbs. Although personally I'd be fine if it dropped 100ft-lbs below that target. For 500yds on Elk, I'd personally suggest 7mm or .30 cal, maybe even .338 caliber. For Deer, a 6.5mm or .277/6.8mm might do.
Personally if it's the first option, of target ahooting to 500m and hunting to 300 or 400 - on deer I'd say a 6.5 Creedmoor, 7mm-08, .308 Win or something equivalent would be great. .30-06 as well, especially on elk within 300-400yds is always a great option. Many would also recommend the 6.5 PRC, although I'm not sure if I'd want it for Elk any further than 400yds, it's great for Deer though.
For 500yds, especially on Elk, I'd prefer a magnum. The 6.8 Western, .280 Ackley Improved, 7mm Rem Mag are great options with less recoil. If you don't care for recoil, then .300 WSM, .300 Win Mag, .300 PRC.
My personal pick, ignoring how rare the ammo and rifles currently are, would be the new 7 PRC. Taking ammo and component availability into account, I'd take a .300 WSM.
Hi Ron,
Great episode, I've always enjoyed hearing about or reading about the "hotrodders" of the industry. I have 2 questions (well could have 200) for you.
1. I've always suspected that no one wildcatted the 30-06 to .277 (at least I never found a reference to it) because. 277 bullets didn't really exist. Sure there was an odd Chinese 6.8, or someone could lathe turn copper rods. Would that be correct?
2. I've always considered Roy Weatherby a wildcatter (and marketer) that grew into a rifle company. Would that be correct or am I over thinking this?
Thanks and keep up the good work.
Cheers, Jeff
P.S. thanks for mentioning Gibbs and the forward ignition system.
Great intro!
Ron, I seen a 270 Titus listed. It looked like you referred it as 270 x 308. The 270 Titus I have is a 300 savage case necked down to 270 caliber. It was also known as Baby 270. Have a great day.
Didn't see the 25 creedmor on the list. Just thought I name that one just got mine back from McGregor Barrels. Hoping for a good shooter. Always enjoy your videos Ron.
I wish someone would take that or the 250 Sav Ackley to SAAMI. They're the same, ballistically: a 257 Roberts in a short action cartridge. They're so close dimensionally.
i heard Mr. Spomer say on an episode a few months back shortly after I discovered his channel and simultaneously shortly after renewing my interest in learning about calibers, that, for some weird or random reason, no one has ever made a .29 bullet? Is this really true? Not a direct quote but he was riffing or opining along those lines. Wish I could remember which episode. At any rate, it stuck in my mind and I have been thinking about it ever since and I have not even begun reloading yet, although I think I’d like to learn it someday. Anyways, like, really for real? No wildcatter ever made a custom gun with a .29 caliber? But we have everything else under the sun, figuratively speaking? If so, fascinating indeed! And I want one to exist, if for no other reason than to know that some wildcatter attempted it. Make a super high bc long bullet in a 1 to 5 twist and a 20 inch barrel rifle and call it a .290 blackout!😂 Combine the old tradition with the new trend! Well obviously others are doing that already but with different calibers.
replying to myself… i did a fast google math conversion thing and it seems .29 is close to a 7.3mm. I think I had seen another video from Forgotten Weapons talking about a 7.3 that the Italian fascists did but then they abandoned it. Does that qualify as a wildcatted .29 from the 1930’s.? I could be off, I didn’t go back to rewatch Mr. McCollum’s video on it yet.
Modern wildcats!!! How about the 375 Raptor!? Common and plentiful 308 based brass, standard length of 2.8, so standard 308 length magazines, AR10 compatible, performs well with short barrel. 375 projectiles are varied and plentiful thanks to standard size in Africa, projectiles from 175gr to 450 subs. Subs achieve around 1000 to 1200 flbs of energy. 250, 260 or 270 gr in supers with full length barrel (around 20", 22" max required for velocity) getting around 3500+ flbs. Super versatile and powerful 500m hunting cartridge in a short action using common available powders too. Win, win, win. LEE makes dies too.
I've always been interested in the lineage of cartridges (family tree), and you briefly touched on this subject. I know it is quite extensive, but would love to see you do an episode on cartridge lineage, or if you or any of your listeners can point me to a point of reference.
Best,
Nicely put together, but jeezlouise what about Weatherby? The dual round radius shoulders, higher powder capacity, the freebore in the barrels, the gas ports in the bolt. Always superior velocity and accuracy over the standard calibre, come on Ron, you can do it.
When wsm's came out a gunsmith buddie and i took 300 wsm from 6mm wsm to 458wsm. My favorite was 358 wsm . Pushed a 250 gr partition @2850 fps. Interesting enough the 300 wsm and 308 norma mag are very very close in case capacity . So you end up with a 358 norma mag on a short action. As a matter of fact i use 358 norma load with h4350 . Gets you about 4500ft lbs at the muzzle and is flatter than an 06 . Great for big bears .....drt
In Australia they call the 35x300WSM a "35 Sambar", after a tough species of deer they hunt with it. Very cool cartridge that exceeds 35 Whelen performance from a short action.
@@jasonbroom7147 yes sir its a serious thumper. My buddy shot a charging coastal brown bear @21 feet she died right there . She was 800 lbs or so
There is a book in more than one edition by J.J.Donnelly, Cartridge Conversions for Handloaders. This is a very interesting collection of current, obsolete and wildcat cartridges. However, after a deep study of this list, most,over 50%of the wildcats, are some excerise in hairsplitting. Most of the "improvements" are less than spectacular and merely extension of egos. I have done some wildcatting, other people's designs, but only if they showed a real gain in power AND accuracy. I have two Gibbs rifles one in .30 and another in .25. Both are real improvements. The only reason I have messed with any others is that I had acquired the rifles already goobered up or a barrel or set of dies fell into my life, which compulsively required pursuit to the end result. That end result frequently ended up in money wasted and a bad idea in need of rectification. There are a lot of great conversions out there there, others are just there to keep one busy reforming cases, kind of a gerbil in a cage running on a wheel, just excerise. Thank you Ron for your tutorial on this aspect of the world of firearms. A lot of the great and classic modern loadings evolved from wildcats. If not for that outside he box thinking have kept the R&D moving to the point we are today. Thank you again.
I have an idea that I am working on that uses the 06 case (improved) with a true 6mm or .236 with long bullet for higher B.C. a 7 1/2 twist barrel, 26 inches long. The 236-06! Should be interesting.
Interesting video i enjoy it
30-416 Rigby improved (Redding sells dies). Better case life than the 30-378 Weatherby. Was great with heavy bullets.
In 1970 I ordered a reamer for a wildcat based on a 404 Jefferies necked down to 7mm. The action was a Breneke long action that would accept very long cartridges. I used a very plentiful 7mm Mauser barrel. It took a year to get it done and who knows what the velocity was, but it was accurate and long reaching. Great for hunting the plains of Wyoming but it wasn't for the faint of heart, recoil was tremendous.
The first step in wildcatting is to quantify what it is that you wish to accomplish that can't be done with existing cartridges. These days there aren't all that many holes but the new .360BH is a great example of a modern development (not exactly a wildcat as it is Rem factory cartridge) built to solve a problem created by a regulatory issue.
I agree with you, I love my 22-250 Ackley improved.
My .270 Gibbs is an amazing and versatile gun. Shoots amazing. You can shoot 270 win through it if you need to.
my wildcats are 17 Fireball,before it came out, 220 Wby Rocket, 223 Imp.25 Gibbs, 35 Whelen Imp. , #30 Cody Express, 35-378 Wby., 6x 47 Rem, 375 Wby ,375 AI
great content: I dont mean to get off topic, I know this is not a favorable cartridge for hunting, but I am surprised that you do not see anybody trying to make a better 5.56/223 consider the modern propellants and bimetal case technology like using the 6.8x51nato case and doing the same for 5.56 giving it more pressure you could add a heavier projectile theoretically making it a faster long ranged more effective cartridge "in theory" that is truly what I would like to see of a wildcat cartridge
Fred Barnes did some amazing things with his quick twist cartridges 6.5 QT that pushed a 190gr pill
.284 is the sweet spot always has been !
Have a look at the GNR line of cartridges Ron, some really awesome wildcats aimed at very specific use cases like revolvers, lever actions etc.
I've got a 358 GNR - a 445 Super Mag necked down. It's in an H&R SB2 single-shot rifle and it's fun to shoot! :)
Dear Elmer also had to do with the 357 Mag. And I'm looking seriously at the now comercial 280 Akley Imp over the Magnums
Got my eye on a Weatherby Mk V in .280 AI. One of the few who make a lefty in that caliber. A shade over 5 lbs and that slick action with a brake on a long barrel.
I am working on a 375 WSM wildcat right now (I know that it had been done before). CH4D had a set of dies available. I had a chamber reamer made off the brass those dies would produce by JGS. Manzella Precision is building the rifle for me. I picked that cartridge over the 376 Steyr, which is a great cartridge, simply because I was able to get a short action, magnum bolt face from Lone Peak Arms in the configuration I wanted. It is simply a 325 WSM necked up to 375. I think it will be a real hammer on big hogs here in AR.
Should work well.
There's a guy here in MI who's been doing brass case shotgun stuff i found very interesting. Might be worth a video.
Of course one doesn't need to mess around with wildcats. But what's that got to do with the price of tea in China?!
Can it be said, that after the 8mm Mauser, everything that followed started as a wildcat? Thanks for the vid.
Ron,
You left out the 6-06 which I had a McGown custom made several years ago. Was stolen back in December from my vehicle in Terre Haute, In. so if the folks out there are offered one on a Churchhill action, beware “She’s hot”. I just had another wildcat made, the 6-45mm; built on a Remington 600 Mohawk action but haven’t got my ammo made yet. Had it made with a 1-8” bbl. What bullet weights would you recommend for this setup? As usual, another great article, thanks.
I have a 375 Raptor. It will probably never be adopted by a major ammo manufacturer but it has been a lot of fun developing loads for.
.375 raptor is apparently pretty similar to the new 8.6 blackout.
I’m curious about .45 raptor tho
The 243 Catbird is basically the same as a 240 Wby but the Weatheby round has a belt like a magnum even though it is the same diameter and length as the 30-06 which is the parent to the 270 which is the parent of the 243 Catbird.
Actually the.30-03 is the parent case of.270, , the neck is longer than 06
I was under the impression that Jim Carmichael designed the catbird and it was then turned into the 243. Poss I am wrong.
Yup I am totally wrong. It is not the 243. Learn sumpin every day.
On the advice of a winning handgun silhouette shooter 40 years ago, I got a gun chambered in a 7mm wildcat.
Does it work? Yes. Absolutely. Is it better at silhouette than standard cartridges? Not that I can tell. So today, there’s no silhouette shooting where I live, and my 7mm wildcat produces a wonderful fireball at the muzzle. But I can’t think of anything it’s good for, other than muzzle blast.
I remember back in the 70's they were going for the world velocity record for a metallic cased civilian cartridge, and the came up with the .22-378 Weatherby... Aptly named the ".22 Eargesplitten loudenboomer". it was loud. and you only got about 50 shots to the barrel before the throat erosion began to vaporize barrel metal. They were going for ~6000 fps. with a solid copper 50 grain bullet because the time's "cup-in-core" bullets couldn't hold together at that velocity/spin rate and they frequently turned to dust upon exiting the barrel.
Hey Ron....ya killing me man.
How come you didnt mention or list the greatest wildcatter of all time, Roy Weatherby??
Was he not a wildcatter way back then?
Sure was.
Really interesting video.
Really enjoyed it.
Good stuff to listen to on an ugly ugly Pennsylvania March day with a mug of hot tea and honey.
True, but can you name a Weatherby cartridge that wasn't commercialized by Weatherby? RW was a marketing genius.
Missed the 30-338 winmag😅
Ron, any thoughts on the .22 creedmore? probably just a brand name. I love the 22-250, all though if the barrel it for a 1 :8 or 1:7 twist it might be a sweet 600 yard shooter. Ive always wanted to build a 22-250 to shoot 80 grn, and even 90 grn smk's
A 22-250ai with a fast twist shooting the heavies is a fun gun for sure.
If you look at the new remington 700 alpha, they offer it in 22-250 with two twist rate options. One of which is 1:8. They just might be paying attention.
The best [former] wildcat is still the 22-250 in my opinion. Just a fantastic and fun to shoot cartridge. I once saw a guy re-invent the 250-3000, by taking 22-250 and necking it up to 6.5mm... kind of funny.
.250-300 is a .257/6.35mm cal, 6.5mm is a .264. But yeah, it's like taking a 6.5 creed to .30 cal and juat ending up with the .300 Savage lol.
aethertech I like the .22-250 and I have one but the best wildcat I have had was the .25-06 that shoots flat like a .22-250, has the recoil of a .243, and hits hard like a .270. It also has better ballistics than a .270. But the .270 got better marketing and Winchester went all out to promote it with a wide range of bullets. The .25-06 never got that from Remington.
I’ve always thought to re chamber a 7.65x53 Mauser for 30.06 cases and load the 7.65 bullets in the 30.06 case.
Intro was perfection
*photo of Tim Allen on a Harley* “That’s a Wild Hog, how did that get in there?”
I think there was a day when Wildcat cartridges made sense- 1950s-1980s. I think nowadays that so many special purpose cartridges exist, and semiauto rifles are mainstream- the days of wildcatting are mostly over. Handloading still is awesome though
I don't have the resources and facilities now but in my twenties I had a huge desire to wildcat a few ideas I'm bummed I never tried!
One that needed attention is the 358 Winchester, and the 7mm Wapiti Express.
My fav is a 378 weatherby case necked down to .284 truly a rocket with a 29.5 inch barrel
I've got a round I've been thinking about,
With all the 5.7x28mm guns that have come out there are a lot of people who like the guns but not the round,
Now if you keep the case as a straight walled and use either 30 or 32 call bullet in that case that would be a much better defence round,
And it's only a barrel and spring swop plus everyone's favourite bullets in9,35, 40,45, the exact same rounds are available in30/32,and with that powder capacity and barrel length 500fpe should be easily available,
This is basically what 223 is to 350 legend but with the 5.7x28mm and everything already exists so nothing needs to be made new it's all existing products,
Plus in most pistols it's 20 rounds plus 1 minimum,
The psa has 23 plus 1 and there are plus 5 and plus 7 baseplates readily available for spare mags,
32x28mm or 327 automag anyone
If the wildcatters weren't making real improvements then we wouldn't have so many that ended up becoming standardized. A lot of the wildcat stuff probably inspired a lot of factory rounds that weren't exact copies but have similar characteristics. I would love to get into this if I had the equipment.
A lot of standard cartridges are great designs, even very old ones like 6.5x55mm, 7x57mm, .30-'06, etc. And then many great ideas that started out in wildcats have become factory cartridges in recent years, the short magnums, 6.5 and 6mm Creedmoors, 6.5 Grendel and 6mm ARC, and others. So yeah, there is very little left to be desired anymore.
But one area that I feel remains for wildcats is modern rimmed cartridges for single shot rifles. Of course some single-shot action designs can handle rimless cartridges, but rimmed just seems more appropriate, and other actions designs absolutely need a good rim for extraction. The contrast here between slope-shouldered old-fashioned factory offerings such as the standard .22 Hornet, .25-35, .30-30, or .348 Winchester and sharp-shouldered wildcats like the .22 K-Hornet, .219 Donaldson Wasp, 6mm/.30-30 Ackley Improved, .25 Ackley Short Krag or .30/.348 Winchester Ackley Improved is very striking. I can't think of a single rimmed cartridge that embodies the modern ideas of short/fat, minimum body taper, and sharp shoulder, yet the factories are not likely to ever address the jarring discrepancy because the market pool of single-shot rifle buyers is so limited. There is no money to be made.
The thing I played with is come up with 20ga shorts and raise the load in 410 2 1/2" to 3/4 oz and 3" to 1oz. good for 20 yrds could go more out of a full choke barrel . I also cam up with my own 12 ga shorts before the data came out I made my own like I did with the others. and take a 9mm case that is too short to use in a a semi auto and trim it down to a short case that you shoot in a wheel gun with a moon clip.
Ron, any insight on quarter bores for short actions? Seems like a .250 Ackley or its near twin the .25 Creedmoor are asking to be commercialized. I'm toying with the former for a deer stalker.
A lot of new cartridges they come out with are not durable, and you end up with a rifle you can't find ammo for, or has few options. However, if you chose the wildcat version that was made out of a relatively standard case, you will not have that problem, there can be situations where the wildcat is more practical.
No mention of things like the 600 Overkill, or the 12ga From Hell?
How about the entire line of Ed Hubble cartridges, from 458 to 700 cal.
Weatherby got his start by wildcatting the 300 & 375 H&H.
And the list goes on
I'm not too familiar with wildcatting, since I haven't been big into guns and am thinking about getting back in. I keep wondering if someone has or will design a centerfire .22 LR that can be reloaded. Or a more powerful .25 ACP, so that we can have a small pocket pistol that can double stack a dozen rounds or more and pistol caliber carbines with .22 LR performance without the limits of the .22 LR.
I wonder if the modern wildcatting might continue with new propellants. For a sci-fi story, I made up a gun that uses Explosively Formed Projectiles, ranging from slugs to shot to metal plasma. And another faction has liquid propellant and electrical ignition. Perhaps this could be the future of wildcatting.
I'm still shooting my 243 (6mm) Winchester, The gun and ammo companies keep bring out new calibers to keep us buying those NEW products. Not me !!!!
Good job? I take it your not aware that those new cartridges are actually better? Is the difference worth buying a new rifle, that’s a personal choice. For me I treat guns like Pokémon, I want them all from my old Winchester 94 made over 100 years ago to the 6.5 creed we got. They all have a place in my safe, hopefully soon I’ll be able to add a 7prc to sit next to the 7rem mag.