Ketamine as a Treatment for Depression?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
- Ketamine is a controlled substance approved by the FDA for use as an anesthetic. It is also used recreationally to create a dissociative state. But what about ketamine for depression? The FDA has approved Spravato (esketamine) for treatment-resistant depression - what does that entail and how does it compare to the ketamine clinics popping up around the country?
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I actually started spravato in April! I've had treatment resistant depression since adolescence, so I've been living with this for my entire adult life. It's not great, it's dictated the entire course of my life in a very bad way.
I've tried so many antidepressants (I've long since lost track of how many), different therapies including CBT and DBT, transcranial magnetic stimulation, and even electroconvulsive therapy, and none of them worked. But for the first time it feels like I've found a treatment that actually *does* something.
I'm not miraculously "cured", but it definitely makes me feel just *better,* and the biggest, most noticeable difference I've seen is pretty much since the beginning when I started taking it the suicidal ideation went way down. My energy levels are also better, and I'm able to maintain motivation to do more things. Life is still hard, and I still have good days and bad days, but with esketamine it's just a bit *less* hard. If life is normally a level 10 difficulty for me, on good days now it can get down to a 5 or 6. Not easy, still a lot of effort, but not nearly so insurmountable as before.
The actual treatment is great, they have comfy recliners, I bring my switch, play okami, and suck on jolly ranchers the whole time (the nasal spray can drip back into your throat and it tastes very bad, but also I feel like the candy has become part of the experience for me now), and it feels tingly and dizzy and nice. I haven't had any issues with nausea, but apparently some people do.
The most inconvenient part is that you can't drive for the rest of the day after treatment, you're not supposed to drive until the next day after a night's sleep, so you need someone to drive you there and back and you can't drive yourself anywhere for the rest of the day.
Have you tried nutritional therapies to balance hormones, minerals, and electrolytes?
@@dianerosegrecoallen4935 what’s something natural that one could do?do you know ?
@@kingkem there are great programs that help those who are dealing with depression aimed to find root causes focusing on stress reduction, reducing viral load, and toxic load and by making cleaner choices with foods, and uncovering deficiencies from imbalances in the gut
@Diane Rose Greco Allen basically seeing a natural doctor who gives herbal medicine right ?
If you're gonna chat pseudoscience, please don't do it in my replies. Not only am I not interested, but I'm actively offended that people assume I haven't tried damn near everything at this stage and maybe if I just ate right and got some sunlight this illness that has plagued me most of my life would just vanish.
i've been dealing with treatment-resistant depression for 5 years. it's severe enough that I can't work. I can't even do activities to entertain myself. my doctor recently referred me to a ketamine clinic since i've tried at least 7 antidepressants and therapy with no positive effects.
I didn't know about the fda approval not being for actual ketamine or the lack of oversight for ketamine clinics. i'll need to talk to my doctor again to make sure I get safe treatment. thank you so much for talking about this!
So, most Ketamine is Racemic Ketamine (A mix of 2 types "R" and "S"). Spravato is just the "S" half, hence the name "Esketamine". It is widely accepted that the 2 mirror molecules work exactly the same, same effects and side effects in humans. The chemical bonds of Ketamine can just point this way or that way, it doesn't change how it works at all with our current evidence
Why did they only include one of the mirror molecules? So they could Patent it and prevent other companies from selling it so they can make more money. Spravato costs around $500 per dosage, the generic Ketamine is around $10 per dosage. Definitely talk with your doctor, but The lack of FDA approval for Ketamine is non that big a deal as Spravato is basically just Ketamine.
Full Disclosure: I do regular at-home Ketamine treatments (Doctor prescribed), $50 a month without insurance, it has been life changing. I like you couldn't maintain a job or even function, I now have my life back and have been back at work for over a year. :D
I tried it and it worked great for me, but was extremely expensive. I paid $1200 for the six week program.
@@DeadKultureVulture $50 a month is cheap! Which company did you go through if you don’t mind my asking?
@@caitlinstone596 So I guess I should clarify. I also did an initial round of 6 for $1000, and a couple subsequent treatments at $200 each. After that I spoke with my Psychiatrist about potential at home treatment. Ketamine is very cheap in general, but the $200 price is payment for the physician and office time. With at home treatments a month's worth of Nasal Spray is about $50, and it get the prescription made at a local compounding pharmacy.
But I was also deemed extremely low risk of abuse for it, so my doctor felt very comfortable prescribing at home treatments, which won't be the case for everyone. My point with the price comment is to show that Spravato is waaaay overcharging because they got a patent, despite being almost identical to the generic.
Man, this is my kind of doctor. Comes in wearing a hoodie and talks to me about ketamine.
esketamine _is_ ketamine, not some sort of derivative. it's one of the two enantiomers (molecules that are each others mirror images): S-ketamine ("esketamine") and R-ketamine ("arketamine"). S-ketamine seems to be the more active variant.
They only developed Spravato because without any changes in the molecule they couldnt have a patent on it.
My friend found relief from their depression with ketamine. It's too bad they had to stop because the cost was too much for them and now dealing with their depression again
May be consider buying ketamin in dark web
@@Eflodursnag a new bladder too for the side effects of that black martlet ket
yo,please cover tms, i'm halfway through my treatments, and its honestly life-changing, i havent felt this clearheaded in years!
I'll be trying ketamine for chronic pain soon, interesting concept
Psychedelic’s definitely have potential to deal with mental health symptoms like anxiety and depression, I would like to try them again but it’s just so hard to source here
I had a moment on my first mushroom trip where i was lying in bed and lost total connection to my physical body. I felt as i was just a dot of energy on my pillow such a crazy feeling and made me smile, really realized that we are really nothing but energy and had an overwhelming feeling from that trip onwards.
LSD and mushrooms completely changed my whole outlook on life. I became a better version of myself
This experience gave me a lot of confidence about my self and my body. A bunch of bad thought / behavior patterns were broken. One of these was pretty bad OCD that made me wash my hands a lot. It gave me a lot of hope that things will be fine, this is the one thing that I heard throughout the trip: Everything is alright. The main reason for the trip was my severe depression and it definitely helped me (although it's not gone). Before all I could do was lay in bed. Now I am trying to rebuild my life one step at a time which wasn't possible before."
Last year, I took shrooms at Las Vegas thinking it was going to hit like an edible or something. Shit was scary at first but amazing once you start getting deeper into your thoughts
Loved this. I battle from depression, anxiety & C-PTSD, I’ve heard shrooms cured depression. Wish doctors were more open to natural medicines over big pharma but we know why
Imagine you could live your life over again from scratch while keeping all of your current experiences and all of your current wisdom and imagine also that you have no obstacle in your way pretty much. Imagine now that your sitting down designing your life from the ground up and imagine that you got 70 years to live. You want this thing to be a work of beauty, something your really proud of, something that when your on your deathbed you can look back on and say yep that was really a well lived life. I got no regrets.
Ketamine infusions are significantly more efficacious than the nasal spray, however even the infusions (for me) only got me out of the dark pit for perhaps 1 week - and during that week I only felt I could at least “cope”, get out of bed etc. It’s tragic that insurance will never cover infusions. If I could do them for the rest of my life, perhaps I could start to live. It’s terribly expensive. Have done spravato (nasal ket) several times & at the most my debilitating anxiety was lessened for a few hours & my mood elevated til the end of the day. I’ve tried over 90+ meds, supplements, TMS, every type of therapy & no benefit. Trying to keep going not for me but so as not to destroy the few ppl who care about me. More than anything I wish psilocybin was legal, as it should be - to change the default mode network is precisely what I need, as well as others stuck in this hell. Also have TRD ocd, anxiety, adhd, & agoraphobia as well (the last since the pandemic) Apologies for such a long comment, doubtful anyone will bother reading it but in case. Here’s hoping everyone with pain will find a moments peace at some point 🖤🖤
@akengozi4430hey
I ve read the whole post it was interesting. TRD here too + Adhd. It seems to be a very complicated combination indeed.
@@Eflodur Hi, thanks for reading - apologies if you now need glasses ;) To be serious yes the comorbidities can make real treatment near impossible. Life can be hard enough w just depression or just adhd etc. Each disorder can and does make the others more intense. Things have only gotten worse here. Not sure how I keep doing this every day. Hope you’re functioning a whole lot better than I am, I feel like I have no hope for a decent happy life. It’s terrifying to ponder.
@@Eflodur Also, is there anything currently that’s helping you even a bit with the trd? What do you take if anything for adhd? I’m out of options (meds) for the adhd too, nothing works. -Regards
I really appreciate your reply. Very informative! I hope you find the peace and happiness that you deserve. Mental disorders are tuff and you are doing the work to treat them, something a great amount of people can’t do.
A good friend of mine with serious treatment resistant depression has undergone and no longer does Medical Ketamine treatments. Supervised by a doctor, all legally. Worked temporarily, may work very well for others, but not permanently for him.
Could be worth massive research.
Again, excellent video. Not to sound cynical, but ketamine is not expensive, it's actually about $1 per dose. Esketamine is the enantiomer, or mirror of the molecule, and is the drug being trialled and pushed for use in depression treatment. It costs $900. It has absolutely no benefit over ketamine, which can also be taken as a nasal spray, or literally by any means. There is also reason to believe that esketamine may not work as well as ketamine. The story of how and why esketamine came to market is the clearest example of the true lack of prudence, reason, and beneficence in the system that brings new drugs to market.
Fucking drug pushers, taking advantage of a desperate public.
Problem is, it doesn’t matter how cheap proper ketamine is as a single infusion typically costs anywhere between 450 - 700 dollars out of pocket. I’ve done infusions several times, my family had to pay for me, I still feel guilty. It’s more efficacious than the nasal yes, I’ve done that as well, but even entire infusion treatments (w boosters) only helped me for barely a week. Tragic but no one cares as there’s no profit to make. As you said (I think) ketamine has been around a very long time & costs almost nothing. I wish there was a pacemaker equivalent of k, I’d cut off both my arms for such a thing. And of course happily have an IV piece hanging perpetually from my arm. Don’t mean to leave a pointless comment, just in despair & feel this is on-topic although admittedly tedious as well, I’m sure.
Oh I should add that yes you are correct esketamine is precisely what you said it was, and in my experience is only 10% effective compared to a k infusion direct into the bloodstream. I maybe repeating myself as my brain is really fried, if so apologies!
That's very sad to hear. No one should have to choose between mental health and anything else. FYI, ketamine doesn't need to be taken IM or IV, it can be take by almost any means, therapists I know prefer a oral mouthwash you swish around or a nasal spray.
Idk, if i had drepression i'd prefer the infusion directly into the bloodstream since not only you're potentially treating or improving your depression but you get a very nice high as well.
Could y’all do a video on TMS?
Yes! That is the topic of the next (and last) video in this series! :) -Tiffany
When will it be covered by insurance?
I was on up to 10 prescription drugs a day after 5 pregnancies in 5 years. Hypothyroidism, STIs, and black mold with caregiver burnout and poor eating and sleep habits nearly killed me with overlapping pancreatitis. I suffered from severe anxiety and depression. I’m off all those drugs and now work with team members as a functional medicine health coach. How addictive is ketamine?
The doctor he's talking about is not a regular family doc. It's a psychologist.
Are these all just for major depression or do any of these work for bipolar 2? When I get depressed I get fuckin depressed and it sucks
The FDA approval is for Major Depressive Disorder, I don't know if there is much research on Bipolar disorders.
I have bipolar 2 and my psychiatrist suggested it as an option if everything else fails
It works for bipolar
Group of criminals allowed another group of criminals to patent the drug known for 40+ years already! Using only one of the two isomers as these "inventors" did, doesn't mean that they created a new substance but the patent was granted to them.
And so many think because ketamine happened, now isn't. But didn't I mention? The ongoing ketamine is happening, right now! We are all co-authors of this dancing exuberance, where even our inabilities are having a roast. We are the authors of ourselves, co-authoring a gigantic Dostoevsky novel starring ketamine! This entire thing we're involved with, called the world, is an opportunity to exhibit how exciting ketamine can be. Ketamine is a matter of a miracle that is collected over time by moments flabbergasted to be in each others' presence.
Neat
Im here for a class
I was going to my first appointment to get this setup until, I found out you needed someone to pick you up afterwards. FML. I originally thought, after the 2 hours you would be fine to drive yourself. (I guess not). It sucks because, I'm completely treatment resistant and don't have the option to try anything else. I just don't have anyone to pick me up, since I live about an hour away, from the treatment center.
That just sucks beyond belief and not sure where to go from here. Therapy didn't work/meds don't work...I don't know what to do anymore. I'm like damn...will I ever catch a break? I know others can relate to this. It hurts to say the least.
It would be an issue for me as well. Hope you got it worked out. If you can afford the therapy you could probably hire a driver.
Taxi, Lyft, Uber scheduled in advance from the clinic to your home.
@@haniyyahn I can't honestly say why I didn't think of that! The treatment center is in a different city but, maybe I can figure something out. ty
They smoke fentanyal how long before they smoke this ?
I have developed advanced Sleep phase disorder making me wake up at 4hrs after sleep initiation later first I was OK but now I slipped into a depression and fighting each day with new medicines to kick in for anxiety and depression it's too slow hence I took a dose of ketamine IV feeling bit better today was in hell of situation last week with constant suicidal thoughts will update u on second and third dose how I wud feel.
How can those ketamine clinics exist if it is a controlled substance? Great series!
Ketamine is a controlled substance but it is a Schedule III non-narcotic. It is also FDA approved as an Anesthetic, so it is legal to use and prescribe for that purpose. Well there is a little known thing called an "Off-label Prescription" which is where a doctor prescribes a medicine to treat something that it is not FDA approved for. This, though not well-know to the public, is EXTREMELY common and legal.
There are a lot Drugs that are generic and can't be patented, and going through the approval process cost millions of dollars, so why would a company get approval for X drug to treat X new diagnosis is they won't be able to patent it to make that money back? It's know to work to treat the new condition but no one will front the money for it, so doctors just prescribe it anyway. Ketamine is prescribed Off-label to treat depression and is perfectly legal. The Schedule III status limits how often someone can refill the prescription and the amount that can be given in a prescription. Ketamine for depression is also technically microdosing as the off-label amounts are 20+ times less than the amount given as an Anesthetic.
Ketamine is a mix of 2 Mirror Moelcules "R" and "S", Spravato is only the "S" (hence Esketamine) mirror so it is technically a "New" drug and can be patented which is why they went through the effort of FDA approval (they also charge 50x what normal Ketamine costs) but because your insurance pays for it since it is FDA approved, it will be cheaper than normal Ketamine for some people. It's important to note that there is little to no evidence that Esketamine has any differing effect on Depression than normal Ketamine, as far as the current research shows, Esketamine and Ketamine are functionally identical.
@@DeadKultureVulture Thank you!
@@DeadKultureVulture it seems NICE partly did not recommend this treatment because of the lack of cost-effectiveness by Spravato
@@DeadKultureVulture
Thank you, Tim. Your posts are invaluable.
Can ketamine cause or exacerbate permanently tinnitus?
I’ve been on every group of antidepressants. ECT didn’t work. TMS is privatised & def expensive. Ketamine therapy is not approved here in Australia, and if it is, it’ll cost me an arm and a leg. It’s been months and years of trial & error. There’s no hope.
There's hardly enough evidence to support it's widespread use. I wonder what criteria was used for "after trying 2 drugs" because the study doesn't show arguments or evidence for it.
It seems it is more economically driven, or maybe is the medical inclination for more acceptance in positive clinical trials...
A great confounding factor may be improvement due to more visits to a health professional (during administrations).
Ketamine has serious adverse effects and long therm safety it's still debated!
Maybe a last line treatment for resistant depression, aside or adjunct to Electroconvulsive therapy?
0:38
If it's not ketamine, what is it?
It's one of two types of the substance R and S. Combined they're called Racemic ketamine.
Worth including as research suggests that both types may have benefits for different people.
Dude is on Instagram
As mycotinny
SOma solutions for Dire times sociatal situations
Duz it help anxiety/depression
@samp739
Yes it does👌
Dennis_allen_01
Is a professional Psychedelic dealer and Mycologist...
Look him up..
He is on Instagram 💯👌
@@user-ip5hu2ej7s tried it several times had no effect on me for some reason
it could also be used for alcohol/drug addiction ketamine and some of its analogues should just be legal imo would change the world
This only works for a few people.
- So… treat depression with a k-hole? 🤔 I keep hearing people talking about trying to use psychedelics to treat anxiety. I wonder what the future of psychopharmacology holds…
- 2:40 Wait, is that Aaron in the stock-video? 🤨
It would be interesting to compare the experience with people who are successful with meditation, instead of using it to antidote depression. Depression is not a disease, it’s a condition where one identifies with something that’s outside themselves and beyond their control. Depression is an adaptation and a result. It can be Mental, that is, psychological which we learn to change beliefs that create a filtre how we experience or represent the world, or life with all its experiences. It often comes because there is a lack of nutrients and allergies, like cerebral allergies which can be an extension to environmental allergies. I see this no different than journeys lead by shamans .
Depression is of coursen an desease like other desease too it is a result. For example diabetes is often a result of bad nutrition habits but when it acures it is an desease which is often not reversable same with some kind of mental desease.
It can make people seem slower, more relaxed and chilled out, but it can also stop people from being able to move properly and from making sense.
Yeah...that's a hard pass for me.
Willing to share why?
Youll take whatever your doc prescribes tho 😂
#274😤mental health awareness month🤔🤣 Don't you really mean mental illness awareness? This double speak political correctness is simply crap! I'm beyond just tired of it!! Are you so afraid to actually say mental illness instead of mental health as an oxymoron?!!🤷
I think you need to chill...
I can guess at why it's not "mental illness." You throw out the usual right-wing nonsense about PC... well, aren't you tired of being called "mentally ill?" Seems more important. It IS health. Illness is a loaded term.
And our society has a strong effect on our "mental health"... not only is the term mental illness used as a pejorative, but it also has a victim-blaming quality to it.
this seems like a bit of a made up issue. people use the term mental health all the time.
Not all issues of mental health are an illness in the clinical sense, but it's fun to practice being outraged.
Chill dude.
Mental health is an inclusuve term. Mental illnesses, personality disorders, developmental disorders and so on.