G'day Kevin here. A really good episode you have really sparked a lot of interest with this build I'm really looking forward in seeing what the future brings you . ✌
You might want to keep it all steel, but since you need some new body panels anyway what about some nice fiberglas/carbon fiber (usually higher quality) parts would offset some of the weight increase?
classic alfa or alfaholics ..(classic alfa is usually cheaper but awesome quality) will have fibreglass bonnets..the steel bonnet is actually quite heavy .I think getting the engine back as far as practical is a good idea and put the dog in the back ...seat as well?
That’s the way I would go .... both front and rear wings in fibreglass ( carbon is expensive) Alfaholics stuff is expensive but high quality...you also would have options for doors bonnet and boot lid. My biggest concern would be the height of the Ferrari engine. Great project Jeff 👍
A full carbon flip front (painted on the outside, carbon on the inside) with a tubular front end and a custom double wishbone/coilover setup would look nuts and show the engine off nicely.
Howdy Jeff, have a look at "subaru gears" they are in aussie and make a lot of cool stuff to fit the scoobie gearboxes. I have a couple of there adapters and fly wheels for my projects. I came to a similar conclusion as you but i have used 4wd boxes converted to RWD. Keep up the work. Cool project! Btw ....My Zed has a vw vr6 turbo mated to the scoobie box. Cheers, Douglas
It was always my impression that gearboxes had torque limits, more so than HP limits. The 915 in your 911 for example will start to exhibit issues when torque goes over 350 ft-lb, particularly at lower revs. It'll be interesting to see how you go with the 86/BRZ box. The intake on that Ferrari engine looks like it will be a challenge. I guess you will just rotate it 180 degrees to face the front? But it may stick out of the bonnet still? Are you tempted to go ITBs on it? With that said, that fancy manifold on top probably adds quite a bit of "meat" to the torque curve on the engine (with variable length intake ports, etc.)
That sand blasting process changed the whole look of the car, it is true that if done wrong it ruins the panels but when done right it becomes a clean slate for painting and protecting the body perfectly
Rule of thumb is to always multiply everything observed/estimated with π! Observed rust x π, estimated cost x π, estimated time to fix x π and so on!! (at a minimum) Nice project, by the way, been following you since the start of the 911!!
Very exciting and unique project Jeff and the engine weight difference is minimal . Porsche has been a long time coming looking forward to the next upload.
What an awesome episode. So interesting about the weight of the engines. Seems a great package if it fits. Just hope gearbox holds up. And as a bonus not only did we get Mrs Jeff in a very smart jacket, the dog made an appearance too! Super breakfast viewing..
Seeing as you are building an Alfa hotrod, and you have lots of metalwork to do, just set the engine back further than normal, cut and rebuild the bulkhead (firewall), get the balance back that way.....
Dang! It I was going to mention this! Further back the engine, lessens weight distribution. issue. I Agree. Locating the engine couple of inches back would help offset extra weight. + battery in the boot.
I think what people had in mind when warning about sand blasting is that blasting with sand heats and stretches the metal and therefore is causing dents and more body work. Other media blasting like with soda is much better option for bigger thin areas like door panels, roof, bonnet, etc.
If you move the battery to the back you would move 35 pounds roughly in the right direction to help rebalance plus you can drop the weight of the battery by a third by using a Lithium Ion battery
Love the idea of a Lithium Ion battery. Small, up front, and no weight penalty of a heavy battery cable going back to to the rear of the car. I'm wondering though if Lithium/Ion/Phosphate batteries are quite yet ready for prime-time being used as a true replacement for a standard engine starting battery?
Snarge22 yes they are and have been used by car and bike manufacturers and as a performance tuning mod for street and track for years now. Makers like Porsche, Lamborghini, BMW and Ferrari give Li battery’s as an option on some models. I ran a voltphreaks Li battery on my 997 GT3 for years without issue. Porsche had their own OEM Li battery for this car, it was expensive though.
By the way small weight difference can be fixed not just by strengthening but also addition of larger fuel tank just behind rear axle. Also help with traction of course😉🙂👍👍
Steve Veness You don’t wanna hang weight in front of the front wheels or behind the rear if you can help it. Yeah front/rear distributions important, but mass centralisations where it’s really at. Stick a big fuel cell behind the front seats under the roll cage!
@@Jonathan_Doe_ Granted point of fact. However if tank can fit over rear axle that would be perfect. More down force for traction. For example my UC 4 door Sunbird got a nine inch rear and a 90ltr truck tank above diff. Front end had motor sitting behind it. I ended up with a 45 / 55 split with me in driver's seat which I figured was pretty cool. Certainly goes round corners very fast😉🙂👍👍 And of course every car is unique as to what work's due to wheel base track width and of course available space with out removing entire floor and starting with a tube chassis of some description. In Jeff's case behind diff could work out OK. However neither of us are aware of what route Jeff is actually going to take. Gonna be fun watching for sure😉🙂👍👍
Nice weight for the little V8 Ls1s usually considered one of the lightest modern V8s come in around 185 kg -225 ish depending on accessories etc. Its also a relatively small lump much of the mass resides on top with the induction. This is going to be fantastic and then some.
To do it properly, IMO, measure the effective intake runner length and approximate plenum volume, then using those measurements create a Medusa of piping to squeeze it under the bonnet, a la E39 M5 ;)
@@DiscoFang You're right, but you'll lose the 'stealth' factor of the harmless alfa..... i would consider remaking the intake so it fits under the hood. Looks like that intake is about 300mm above the heads... holy cow. Be curious to measure from centerline of crank to top of engine, it looks really tall.
Joe M When Jeff was talking about the engine with it next to him on the pallet I was visualising an episode of him making up a replica with cardboard boxes to get a ball park of fitment in the engine bay. It's a curious thing, the relative heights. Scale in isolation can be deceptive.
Another great video, the Ferrari engine is surprisingly light! More body work than expected but the battery tray and rad bottom are super common problem areas. The body panels do get expensive, even though quality is good they need some fettling to make them fit right!
Interesting project, I'll be hanging out for the subsequent installments to come. Hope that gearbox can handle the torque, you'll need to "uprate" it by using top quality full synthetic gear oil, an old Borg-Warner trick. Also you could move the radiator into the boot area seeing as you need to change all that wrecked rear boot floor, it'll give more space/coolant capacity/less weight up front.
Hi Jeff and Mrs Jeff, it's really a nice channel!, I am very curious to see the result of your project. I also have a GT, but a 1600, step front of 1969. I would like to change the engine, perhaps with Alfaholics parts. If you need original spare parts from Italy you can contact me, I know almost every Alfa spare parts dealers here, even for rare pieces. Keep on with the good work!, do you already know how you will paint it?
Surprising there is so little difference in weight. Perhaps relocating battery etc to the boot will help retain the weight distribution. Man there is a LOT of sheet metal work to do. I'm enjoying this build.
I'm going to enjoy watching you scratch your head through this one...should be a very rewarding project...in the end :-) BTW, John's website is .com.au not .com - thought you might like to know!
I was going to suggest that the RX8 Trans has the starter on the trans side. But then you pop out the 86 trans... which is the same thing! Both are Aisin AZ6's.
i'm not shocked the weight difference is not all that substantial. something to consider too is that the slight increase in trans heft actually will shift some bias towards the rear. plus, you plan on installing a beefier rear, right? right?
Like others have said. Relocating the battery to the boot/trunk. and relocating the engine further back in the engine bay could mitigate the weight issue?. Also have you considered the gear ratios of the gearbox? May have drivability issues due to the gear ratios keeping the engine out of its power band?... I wonder are you considering junking the injection system for Weber Dcoe's 40/45/50s? NOW that would be interesting and in keeping with the era of the car.??
Only 25 kgs difference between the 2 engines??? i would not have guessed that. 4 more pistons and rods, another head and valves and cams, and that huge manifold. The original alfa motor does look stout...
The gearbox should be fine, it’s torque which kills gearboxes, all those which are breaking at 350WHP will be turbo and will have a big chunk of torque at rpm which the Ferrari engine doesn’t.
Really shows how much they’ve improved material use over the years My 78’ 500cc motorcycle engine weighs about 5kg less than my 2008’ 1800cc Audi engine 😂
There's a Ferrari powered BRZ that looks a similar engine, that's probably where Benny got the idea about the gearbox from, it's a drift car so the transmission and diff are going to have to be strong, it might be worth seeing what they've done? The inlet manifold does look tall but long runners are generally for increased torque over outright hp, you're not really going to need heaps of torque IMO so could shorten the runners significantly. There's a very good custom plenum place in Wollongong or get the guys that did Benny's cresta manifolds in Sydney?
I put a 4.2 ltr Oldsmobile (alloy) into a 1968 two door gt Cortina. The V8 (P76) was lighter than the original cast iron 4 cylinder. My alloy 393 Cleveland is only 40 Kg lighter than the cast iron 351.
I would do all around Carbon/Kevlar composites, and don’t mess with sheet metal straightening nightmare. Door skins, front and rear fenders and bonnet. Rear trunk door would keep steel. Also you will have to add the fuel cell in trunk. That will balance weight distribution. There are lot of options. But all around composites would way to go.
This will be a steel beast. There are aluminium panels available, but as the front guards and nosecone are all one welded on non-removeable piece it would be a lot more work trying to make all new composite panels.
I would be looking at a later model Fd rx7 box if I was you. Series 7 or series 8. They have a rear facing passenger side starter and are a pretty light box. You can also swap the extension housing with an fc rx7 box and shorten the shifter if it's too far back.
Hi Jeff, huge fan, long time watcher/subscriber first time commenter... with the kephos what’s the plan? Do all the rust repairs then once done epoxy primer straight over kephos? Does it need prepping or can you go straight over the top? I’m undertaking my own 240z project on the oz west coast and am at the stage where I need to plan out how I’m doing the bodywork, the kephos peaked my interest as I don’t want to get my car blasted and have it sit in primer for over a year while I do the bodywork. Huge thanks for your content, you are a inspiration to a lot of people (myself included).
I have an 86, you COULD buy a rebuild kit that will make the gearbox handle the power the ferrari engine has. Check out Jacks Transmissions. They sell a good one, and the rebuild service if you choose to go that route, or in Homebuilt fashion, make an episode or two out of it. ALSO, i dont know how good the starter will do with a v8 engine, might try putting two lithium moto batteries. Light weight and more than enough power.
I agree. I'm also thinking the overall weight of the Alfa is going to be at least 500 lbs lighter than the BRZ given the modern safety stds, etc. The stresses from a high hp motor have more to do with the load placed on the transmission more than just the hp of the motor. A lighter vehicle means less stress on the tranny. Jeff did good :)
Wondering if you'll go full Monty and pick up an English wheel and create your own patches for complex bits vs trying to scavenge something from another car. On the weight, some of that will be pushed further back via the longer transmission. if it matters, you can always et off the difference with a bigger fuel tank when you rebuild the trunk
put airjacks on the rear and connect the starter motor to the back of the gearbox ^^ the staring procedure would then be, lift the rear wheels, put the transmission in gear, release the clutch and then activate the starter motor to start the engine XD
Plus the fact that the Ferrari engine would have the same amount of torque than the brz. Therefore I think it might be able to handle the power output. RPM or HP. is not the main issue if you don't want to kill your gearbox. Torque rips everything apart.😉 At least this is what I have learned from my small projects.
Well on the bright side, so much metal has rusted and been blasted away that Colin Chapman would say you've added lightness! Your going to need it with that heavy lump that looks to weigh more than twice as much as the old twin cam.
Thinking aloud but if you have a custom flywheel done, would it be worth having the Ferrari trigger pattern on it too. Just think it might make ECU life easier as you'll need one that understands 'Ferrari' - based on the cam positioning with the quad cam setup, ign firing order and crank trigger pattern too!! - So if you ran an FA20 trigger it'll confuse it and might stop the cam and crank sync process. (I've just had a similar/ish issue on a standalone that wouldn't crank sync because my aftermarket flywheel was slightly different to oem spec).
A couple of issues I am seeing is installing that Ferrari Engine into the Alfa .. It seems the air intakes are on the wrong side (backside) and the engine is going into a front engine vehicle .. The only work around I see is separating the air boxes and turning them 180 degrees .. where now the Left MAF and TB become the right one and vice versa .. not an issue whether u are keeping the ECU's or not as long as when plugging the engine into a diagnostic tool u remember Left is Right and Vice Versa .. that is assuming you are keeping the original intake .. again assuming it will fit under the hood. ... [maybe the intake runners can get shortened without affecting engine performance to retain the originality of the engine ... You may also want to look at relocating the oil filter remotely for easy access... as well being a dry sump system fabrication of a custom catch tank with filter in the trunk of the car to better offset the added weight of the drive train up front and help with weight balance front to rear.. would make for a cool set up .. oil tank one one side and battery on the other .. in the rear trunk .. Sorry its my Engineer brain at work ;-) :-)
Get the Xtreme organic twin plate clutch. It's a great feeling clutch that handles big power and because it's organic, it's pretty easy to drive! P.s. you definitely need gearsets, I went through three of these gearboxes when my 86 ran 300kw atw.
G'day Jeff reckon it will be fun to drive when finished for sure. Should be tail steer happy via right foot with a thong on never mind a work boot ( steel toe cap).😉🙂👍👍
I wonder how much taller is the engine, the Ferrari intake manifold is huge. I'd hate to see you have to cut the hood to fit it, maybe a custom intake manifold is in the plan.
You should fit the power steering and air con, wouldn’t be too hard to work something out using AN fittings. The steering’ll probably be quite heavy with that extra weight up front, and that engine’ll definitely kick out more heat than the little Alfa engine so you’ll be baking in the cabin.
Home Built By Jeff if Bad Obsession Motorsports can get a Celica GT Four engine, with the air con, power steering, turbo and a charge cooler attached into a classic mini, I’m sure it’s possible 😂. I’d of thought the width of the banks themselves would be more of an issue than the depth of the accessories with it being a 4 cylinder to v8 swap.
If it is ever necessary the coils are made by Bosch Article number 0 221 504 015 and cost about 107 Australian Roubles a pop. So, not too expensive. (...in Germany) Oh, and are you going to change the intake runners to bend versions (if you're going to use them at all?) since the engine appears to be a wee bit too high to fit into the engine-bay...
I would start with a gearbox that can handle the torque and mount the starter on the adapter you will have to design and fabricate. Oh and there is no way that Ferrari intake will fit under the bonnet so I hope you're up for some custom manifold design...or just cut a hole and the bonnet and let it stick out, roots blower style.......
Could you please do a short feature covering the rebuild laws and regulations in Australia? Limits to engine power increases etc. I understand that some states prohibit rebuilding insurance write-offs for instance. 👍🏻 Are LS swaps permitted?
By the time you add all the weight gains together it’s going to be like an adult bloke sat on the front of the car. Suspension upgrades etc will offset sone of it but the extra mass will make the car nose heavy no matter what you do. Btw I call the Alfa ‘Miss Moneypit’ ; )
The Alf twin cam is a very tall engine, there’s probably not much in it and the inlet runners could be shortened if required, what will take a bit of thought is the Ferrari’s engine is designed to sit very low in the car.
@@HomeBuiltByJeff I'm biased because my 105 is a step nose GT1300 Junior (with a 2lt Twin Spark transplant) but I personally think the later four headlight nose is too busy... horses for courses. Anyway, great project... it'll be a fun ride.
20:43 “little project” - famous last words Jeff!!
You are so lucky to have such a great shop to do the blasting for you! Really hard to find places with that kind of passion.
Hah! When you mentioned "starter in the bellhousing" and small transmission, I thought "Oh! GT 86!" and hey, there it is.
Blimey! You are a better man than I , Gunga Din!! A LOT of work to do, but if anyone can do it, it is you! Great videos to follow. Thanks, Jeff!
G'day Kevin here. A really good episode you have really sparked a lot of interest with this build I'm really looking forward in seeing what the future brings you . ✌
This is getting good. I'm actually glad the body is in rough shape because then I get to see how it should be repaired.
Excellent build series mate. The media blaster is a true professional.
Awesome channel and content!! It’s great to see someone doing AND showing how the restoration process should be done.
Man, definitely a bondo queen.
Mrs. Jeff is a winner!
I believe that little Alpha was once in a Derby. 🏁 Awesome project, though! Looking forward to following your progress. 👍🇺🇲
You might want to keep it all steel, but since you need some new body panels anyway what about some nice fiberglas/carbon fiber (usually higher quality) parts would offset some of the weight increase?
classic alfa or alfaholics ..(classic alfa is usually cheaper but awesome quality) will have fibreglass bonnets..the steel bonnet is actually quite heavy .I think getting the engine back as far as practical is a good idea and put the dog in the back ...seat as well?
That’s the way I would go .... both front and rear wings in fibreglass ( carbon is expensive) Alfaholics stuff is expensive but high quality...you also would have options for doors bonnet and boot lid. My biggest concern would be the height of the Ferrari engine. Great project Jeff 👍
Carbon bonnet? The end result would be similar weight but sitting lower, an overall win...
A full carbon flip front (painted on the outside, carbon on the inside) with a tubular front end and a custom double wishbone/coilover setup would look nuts and show the engine off nicely.
It would likely also be incredibly expensive. I think just a carbon hood might be okay, or even just a lightweight fibreglass piece.
With all the work you will put on the afla, I hope you will keep it.
Howdy Jeff, have a look at "subaru gears" they are in aussie and make a lot of cool stuff to fit the scoobie gearboxes. I have a couple of there adapters and fly wheels for my projects. I came to a similar conclusion as you but i have used 4wd boxes converted to RWD. Keep up the work. Cool project! Btw ....My Zed has a vw vr6 turbo mated to the scoobie box. Cheers, Douglas
It was always my impression that gearboxes had torque limits, more so than HP limits. The 915 in your 911 for example will start to exhibit issues when torque goes over 350 ft-lb, particularly at lower revs. It'll be interesting to see how you go with the 86/BRZ box.
The intake on that Ferrari engine looks like it will be a challenge. I guess you will just rotate it 180 degrees to face the front? But it may stick out of the bonnet still? Are you tempted to go ITBs on it?
With that said, that fancy manifold on top probably adds quite a bit of "meat" to the torque curve on the engine (with variable length intake ports, etc.)
That sand blasting process changed the whole look of the car, it is true that if done wrong it ruins the panels but when done right it becomes a clean slate for painting and protecting the body perfectly
Rule of thumb is to always multiply everything observed/estimated with π! Observed rust x π, estimated cost x π, estimated time to fix x π and so on!! (at a minimum)
Nice project, by the way, been following you since the start of the 911!!
If you’re working on motorcycles times 2, cars times 4, boats times 10
Very exciting and unique project Jeff and the engine weight difference is minimal . Porsche has been a long time coming looking forward to the next upload.
What an awesome episode. So interesting about the weight of the engines. Seems a great package if it fits. Just hope gearbox holds up. And as a bonus not only did we get Mrs Jeff in a very smart jacket, the dog made an appearance too! Super breakfast viewing..
Seeing as you are building an Alfa hotrod, and you have lots of metalwork to do, just set the engine back further than normal, cut and rebuild the bulkhead (firewall), get the balance back that way.....
It won't do much, but move the battery to the back as well.
A bigger diff will help as well
Monk Really?! It will do much.
@@tomahoks I'm coming from the performance Miata world, where we use batteries that sometimes only weigh ounces
Dang! It I was going to mention this!
Further back the engine, lessens weight distribution.
issue.
I Agree.
Locating the engine
couple of inches back would help offset extra weight.
+ battery in the boot.
There's something ironic about a 911 owner being worried about weight distribution 😉
Mr Clown..Funny one!
60% over the rear wheels, or 60% up front. I know what I'd choose.
@@dra911 4WD 60% on roof...haha
I think he is saying he isn't worried - the rest of the internet is worried.
Looks like a very quality sandblast job. Certainly will save you a lot of work.
Are you going to Install the battery in the trunk to help rebalance the chassis?
Yep, so there is 10kgs or so right there.
@@HomeBuiltByJeff Not to forget the fire suppression system ... j/k
I think what people had in mind when warning about sand blasting is that blasting with sand heats and stretches the metal and therefore is causing dents and more body work. Other media blasting like with soda is much better option for bigger thin areas like door panels, roof, bonnet, etc.
If you move the battery to the back you would move 35 pounds roughly in the right direction to help rebalance plus you can drop the weight of the battery by a third by using a Lithium Ion battery
That is a good point. I forgot about the battery weight going in the right place.
Home Built By Jeff plus you must have dropped 30 pounds of bondo, paint layers and rust!
Love the idea of a Lithium Ion battery. Small, up front, and no weight penalty of a heavy battery cable going back to to the rear of the car.
I'm wondering though if Lithium/Ion/Phosphate batteries are quite yet ready for prime-time being used as a true replacement for a standard engine starting battery?
Snarge22 yes they are and have been used by car and bike manufacturers and as a performance tuning mod for street and track for years now. Makers like Porsche, Lamborghini, BMW and Ferrari give Li battery’s as an option on some models.
I ran a voltphreaks Li battery on my 997 GT3 for years without issue. Porsche had their own OEM Li battery for this car, it was expensive though.
By the way small weight difference can be fixed not just by strengthening but also addition of larger fuel tank just behind rear axle.
Also help with traction of course😉🙂👍👍
Steve Veness You don’t wanna hang weight in front of the front wheels or behind the rear if you can help it. Yeah front/rear distributions important, but mass centralisations where it’s really at.
Stick a big fuel cell behind the front seats under the roll cage!
@@Jonathan_Doe_ Granted point of fact.
However if tank can fit over rear axle that would be perfect. More down force for traction.
For example my UC 4 door Sunbird got a nine inch rear and a 90ltr truck tank above diff. Front end had motor sitting behind it.
I ended up with a 45 / 55 split with me in driver's seat which I figured was pretty cool.
Certainly goes round corners very fast😉🙂👍👍
And of course every car is unique as to what work's due to wheel base track width and of course available space with out removing entire floor and starting with a tube chassis of some description.
In Jeff's case behind diff could work out OK.
However neither of us are aware of what route Jeff is actually going to take.
Gonna be fun watching for sure😉🙂👍👍
The bodywork done to that car is enough to make you cry....
Nice weight for the little V8 Ls1s usually considered one of the lightest modern V8s come in around 185 kg -225 ish depending on accessories etc. Its also a relatively small lump much of the mass resides on top with the induction. This is going to be fantastic and then some.
I noticed he used garnet to do the blasting. Good choice!
Going to be a really cool car when it’s done! Looking forward to watching your progress.
I don't think that intake is going to fit under bonnet.
Maybe open velocity stacks?
To do it properly, IMO, measure the effective intake runner length and approximate plenum volume, then using those measurements create a Medusa of piping to squeeze it under the bonnet, a la E39 M5 ;)
With that engine? Just cut a great fat hole! Or perspex scoop. Anything to see that glory. Embrace your 90's show car aesthetic Jeff.
@@DiscoFang You're right, but you'll lose the 'stealth' factor of the harmless alfa..... i would consider remaking the intake so it fits under the hood. Looks like that intake is about 300mm above the heads... holy cow. Be curious to measure from centerline of crank to top of engine, it looks really tall.
@@computiNATEor You put this engine in an E39?
Joe M When Jeff was talking about the engine with it next to him on the pallet I was visualising an episode of him making up a replica with cardboard boxes to get a ball park of fitment in the engine bay. It's a curious thing, the relative heights. Scale in isolation can be deceptive.
Félicitations rien ne vous arrête bon courage.
Jeff, got a name for it, PAVAROTTI! The only other Italian with more hits? Hehehe
Fantastic. Thanks EJ engine architecture.
Dunno how much you know on the Subaru's but the pull clutches like the old WRX's have a super nice feel.
Another great video, the Ferrari engine is surprisingly light! More body work than expected but the battery tray and rad bottom are super common problem areas.
The body panels do get expensive, even though quality is good they need some fettling to make them fit right!
Yep, it is going to take some work. Surprisingly this car is not bad on the rust side, more accident damage.
Interesting project, I'll be hanging out for the subsequent installments to come.
Hope that gearbox can handle the torque, you'll need to "uprate" it by using top quality full synthetic gear oil, an old Borg-Warner trick. Also you could move the radiator into the boot area seeing as you need to change all that wrecked rear boot floor, it'll give more space/coolant capacity/less weight up front.
Hi Jeff and Mrs Jeff, it's really a nice channel!,
I am very curious to see the result of your project. I also have a GT, but a 1600, step front of 1969. I would like to change the engine, perhaps with Alfaholics parts. If you need original spare parts from Italy you can contact me, I know almost every Alfa spare parts dealers here, even for rare pieces.
Keep on with the good work!, do you already know how you will paint it?
Great work Mrs jeff.
And Mr Jeff. Go Team Jeff.
Surprising there is so little difference in weight. Perhaps relocating battery etc to the boot will help retain the weight distribution. Man there is a LOT of sheet metal work to do. I'm enjoying this build.
Battey, oil tank, bigger brakes, half cage, there is a lot that will make a difference
I'm going to enjoy watching you scratch your head through this one...should be a very rewarding project...in the end :-) BTW, John's website is .com.au not .com - thought you might like to know!
I was going to suggest that the RX8 Trans has the starter on the trans side. But then you pop out the 86 trans... which is the same thing! Both are Aisin AZ6's.
Interesting. I have had quite a few suggestions for RX7 boxes. Nice to know they are the same thing.
@@HomeBuiltByJeff It's also the same trans in the 6speed NB MX-5, however the MX-5 is mounted differently.
Pretty decent blasting.👍
Well done.
Here are some names for it:
Falfa, Alfararri
i'm not shocked the weight difference is not all that substantial. something to consider too is that the slight increase in trans heft actually will shift some bias towards the rear. plus, you plan on installing a beefier rear, right? right?
Like others have said.
Relocating the battery to the boot/trunk.
and relocating the engine further back in the engine bay could mitigate the weight issue?.
Also have you considered the gear ratios of the gearbox?
May have drivability issues due to the gear ratios keeping the engine out of its power band?...
I wonder are you considering junking the injection system for Weber Dcoe's 40/45/50s?
NOW that would be interesting and in keeping with the era of the car.??
Only 25 kgs difference between the 2 engines??? i would not have guessed that. 4 more pistons and rods, another head and valves and cams, and that huge manifold. The original alfa motor does look stout...
Great gearbox choice for fitting the present car: not so sure when it cimes to a good match for it power wise
The gearbox should be fine, it’s torque which kills gearboxes, all those which are breaking at 350WHP will be turbo and will have a big chunk of torque at rpm which the Ferrari engine doesn’t.
Really shows how much they’ve improved material use over the years
My 78’ 500cc motorcycle engine weighs about 5kg less than my 2008’ 1800cc Audi engine 😂
Porsche 928 box. Front engine rear transaxle. Good weight distribution in such a light car.
There's a Ferrari powered BRZ that looks a similar engine, that's probably where Benny got the idea about the gearbox from, it's a drift car so the transmission and diff are going to have to be strong, it might be worth seeing what they've done? The inlet manifold does look tall but long runners are generally for increased torque over outright hp, you're not really going to need heaps of torque IMO so could shorten the runners significantly. There's a very good custom plenum place in Wollongong or get the guys that did Benny's cresta manifolds in Sydney?
Ryan Tuerck's car ran a sequential race box
Rust holes, good work 👍
Benny is the man, indeed.
Carbon fiber bonnet and boot lid will help with the weight.
I put a 4.2 ltr Oldsmobile (alloy) into a 1968 two door gt Cortina. The V8 (P76) was lighter than the original cast iron 4 cylinder. My alloy 393 Cleveland is only 40 Kg lighter than the cast iron 351.
I would do all around Carbon/Kevlar composites, and don’t mess with sheet metal straightening nightmare. Door skins, front and rear fenders and bonnet. Rear trunk door would keep steel. Also you will have to add the fuel cell in trunk. That will balance weight distribution. There are lot of options. But all around composites would way to go.
This will be a steel beast. There are aluminium panels available, but as the front guards and nosecone are all one welded on non-removeable piece it would be a lot more work trying to make all new composite panels.
I would be looking at a later model Fd rx7 box if I was you. Series 7 or series 8. They have a rear facing passenger side starter and are a pretty light box. You can also swap the extension housing with an fc rx7 box and shorten the shifter if it's too far back.
Same gearbox as the GT86 ;)
@@HomeBuiltByJeff 86 box is the same as rx8 not rx7. Rx7 are completely different and a lot stronger.
Hi Jeff, huge fan, long time watcher/subscriber first time commenter... with the kephos what’s the plan? Do all the rust repairs then once done epoxy primer straight over kephos? Does it need prepping or can you go straight over the top? I’m undertaking my own 240z project on the oz west coast and am at the stage where I need to plan out how I’m doing the bodywork, the kephos peaked my interest as I don’t want to get my car blasted and have it sit in primer for over a year while I do the bodywork. Huge thanks for your content, you are a inspiration to a lot of people (myself included).
It is what Tim from Zoo Autocraft suggested and I believe he just hits the car with prepsol and epoxy primers over the top.
I thought you are going to mount a g/box at the rear axle, like a certain old Alfas
I have an 86, you COULD buy a rebuild kit that will make the gearbox handle the power the ferrari engine has. Check out Jacks Transmissions. They sell a good one, and the rebuild service if you choose to go that route, or in Homebuilt fashion, make an episode or two out of it. ALSO, i dont know how good the starter will do with a v8 engine, might try putting two lithium moto batteries. Light weight and more than enough power.
I agree. I'm also thinking the overall weight of the Alfa is going to be at least 500 lbs lighter than the BRZ given the modern safety stds, etc. The stresses from a high hp motor have more to do with the load placed on the transmission more than just the hp of the motor. A lighter vehicle means less stress on the tranny. Jeff did good :)
Wondering if you'll go full Monty and pick up an English wheel and create your own patches for complex bits vs trying to scavenge something from another car. On the weight, some of that will be pushed further back via the longer transmission. if it matters, you can always et off the difference with a bigger fuel tank when you rebuild the trunk
put airjacks on the rear and connect the starter motor to the back of the gearbox ^^
the staring procedure would then be, lift the rear wheels, put the transmission in gear, release the clutch and then activate the starter motor to start the engine XD
Good choice of gearbox, I was going to say how about using a Honda s2000 gearbox, purely for the gear ratios but the 86 box makes sense.
Plus the fact that the Ferrari engine would have the same amount of torque than the brz.
Therefore I think it might be able to handle the power output.
RPM or HP. is not the main issue if you don't want to kill your gearbox.
Torque rips everything apart.😉
At least this is what I have learned from my small projects.
I'd totally do ITB's and open trumpets. It would look sick in that car :-D
I could but that is the only part of the engine that says Ferrari, and the plenums look cool ;)
@@HomeBuiltByJeff - I see your point. If you can modify the runners and make it all fit, then that is a cool solution too. ;-)
Well on the bright side, so much metal has rusted and been blasted away that Colin Chapman would say you've added lightness! Your going to need it with that heavy lump that looks to weigh more than twice as much as the old twin cam.
You should watch the video first ;)
Thinking aloud but if you have a custom flywheel done, would it be worth having the Ferrari trigger pattern on it too. Just think it might make ECU life easier as you'll need one that understands 'Ferrari' - based on the cam positioning with the quad cam setup, ign firing order and crank trigger pattern too!! - So if you ran an FA20 trigger it'll confuse it and might stop the cam and crank sync process. (I've just had a similar/ish issue on a standalone that wouldn't crank sync because my aftermarket flywheel was slightly different to oem spec).
you are a legend Jeff
always great videos
A couple of issues I am seeing is installing that Ferrari Engine into the Alfa .. It seems the air intakes are on the wrong side (backside) and the engine is going into a front engine vehicle .. The only work around I see is separating the air boxes and turning them 180 degrees .. where now the Left MAF and TB become the right one and vice versa .. not an issue whether u are keeping the ECU's or not as long as when plugging the engine into a diagnostic tool u remember Left is Right and Vice Versa .. that is assuming you are keeping the original intake .. again assuming it will fit under the hood. ... [maybe the intake runners can get shortened without affecting engine performance to retain the originality of the engine ... You may also want to look at relocating the oil filter remotely for easy access... as well being a dry sump system fabrication of a custom catch tank with filter in the trunk of the car to better offset the added weight of the drive train up front and help with weight balance front to rear.. would make for a cool set up .. oil tank one one side and battery on the other .. in the rear trunk .. Sorry its my Engineer brain at work ;-) :-)
I already have a plan ;) (and swapping the intakes around would only mean making sure they are plugged into the correct side of the loom. Easy).
Get the Xtreme organic twin plate clutch. It's a great feeling clutch that handles big power and because it's organic, it's pretty easy to drive!
P.s. you definitely need gearsets, I went through three of these gearboxes when my 86 ran 300kw atw.
G'day Jeff reckon it will be fun to drive when finished for sure. Should be tail steer happy via right foot with a thong on never mind a work boot ( steel toe cap).😉🙂👍👍
Great episode!
Awesome built so far Jeff!👌
How wide do you plan to go with the rear tyres?
Did you look at the Alfa Romeo F136 YC?
won't you also need a beefier diff to handle the power surplus? Meaning more weight at the rear, canceling the difference out a bit more?
The diff in there is pretty tough so we will see how it goes for now, but the battery moving to the boot will balance it pretty much with just that.
I wonder how much taller is the engine, the Ferrari intake manifold is huge. I'd hate to see you have to cut the hood to fit it, maybe a custom intake manifold is in the plan.
Wow Nice.... you bring me crazy ideas Jeff :)
What a big but cool project. Exciting! : )
You should fit the power steering and air con, wouldn’t be too hard to work something out using AN fittings.
The steering’ll probably be quite heavy with that extra weight up front, and that engine’ll definitely kick out more heat than the little Alfa engine so you’ll be baking in the cabin.
It's not the fittings it is the space.
Home Built By Jeff if Bad Obsession Motorsports can get a Celica GT Four engine, with the air con, power steering, turbo and a charge cooler attached into a classic mini, I’m sure it’s possible 😂.
I’d of thought the width of the banks themselves would be more of an issue than the depth of the accessories with it being a 4 cylinder to v8 swap.
So, are you going to have the transmission rebuilt to handle the additional power as well as be able to mate to the engine?
Not yet
If it is ever necessary the coils are made by Bosch
Article number 0 221 504 015
and cost about 107 Australian Roubles a pop.
So, not too expensive.
(...in Germany)
Oh, and are you going to change the intake runners to bend versions (if you're going to use them at all?) since the engine appears to be a wee bit too high to fit into the engine-bay...
I would start with a gearbox that can handle the torque and mount the starter on the adapter you will have to design and fabricate. Oh and there is no way that Ferrari intake will fit under the bonnet so I hope you're up for some custom manifold design...or just cut a hole and the bonnet and let it stick out, roots blower style.......
Could you please do a short feature covering the rebuild laws and regulations in Australia? Limits to engine power increases etc. I understand that some states prohibit rebuilding insurance write-offs for instance. 👍🏻 Are LS swaps permitted?
I don't know them all, but the national rules allow up to a 4160cc NA engine in this car.
mybluezed vsb14 is the guidline for all states of australia, www.infrastructure.gov.au/vehicles/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/vsb_ncop.aspx
It's fun to see that your blasting guy has the same OCD as you 😁🤣👍👏😊
I would love to see that engine in the 240z.
Are you going to swap the intake manifold around?
By the time you add all the weight gains together it’s going to be like an adult bloke sat on the front of the car. Suspension upgrades etc will offset sone of it but the extra mass will make the car nose heavy no matter what you do. Btw I call the Alfa ‘Miss Moneypit’ ; )
"Thinking about it before hand really helps!" lol
Just relocate the battery, washer bottle etc into the boot to distribute the weight more evenly. Its not a massive issue anyways
Jeff, let me know if you need a hand 3D modelling an adaptor plate to get machined up.
Send me an email :)
Love it! I think you removed 30kgs of paint and bog anyway :P
Nice one Jeff - what are you doing with the Ferrari plenum? Looks too high to fi under the bonnet
There is a plan ;)
@@HomeBuiltByJeff I guess it's going to look cool just sneaking a peak out of the bonnet :D
The Alf twin cam is a very tall engine, there’s probably not much in it and the inlet runners could be shortened if required, what will take a bit of thought is the Ferrari’s engine is designed to sit very low in the car.
Isn't a cd009 gearbox with a welded bell a good option.
It is HUGE.
I imagine you will put the battery in the boot as space is tight . That will mean your weight difference is even less .
Have you thought how you will do the ecu map? Gonna be very tricky 😱🤯
It's just a V8, plenty of appropriately configurable stand alone ECUs available that will do the job :-)
Are you planning on moving into the back seat when you want to change gear? Engine with box look pretty long to me. Just saying.....
Should have got a mazda RX7 Fd gearbox . Easy 500hp , light , small and gearbox mounted starter! Cheap and easy to get to!!
Didn't think of that. It would have been good too.
If you have to replace the front section anyway, why not go for a step-nose?
I could, but I actually prefer the neater look of the later nose. I will be backdating the rear end to take the 1750 tail lights.
@@HomeBuiltByJeff I'm biased because my 105 is a step nose GT1300 Junior (with a 2lt Twin Spark transplant) but I personally think the later four headlight nose is too busy... horses for courses. Anyway, great project... it'll be a fun ride.
Next time a spreaderbar could be helpfull for the lift
Couldnt you get a better body in better condition ? or would it cost more money.
They are 50 year old cars which are rusty and smashed. You never know what is under that beautiful paint job ;)
@@HomeBuiltByJeff Ok !
Question, did you consider the 350Z gearbox? CD0009
That thing is massive and doesn't have the starter mounted to it.
Home Built By Jeff oh yea fair enough, I didn’t consider the size only the reliability!
what is key force? I've never heard that term, some kind of substitute for etching primer?
looking over it again I think you called it key foss
It is a metal surface protectant
@@HomeBuiltByJeff thanks, nice to see metal work, check out a little project with some minor metal fabrication ruffiancars.com/ruffian-mustang
Do a flared out body kit .... should've solved some problems