They listen but sometimes don't understand.. Case and point the R86s now has USB-C power, but it isn't standard USB-C PD power it is some funky direct wire that doesn't seem to work with a bunch of power supplies. The point of users asking for USB-C on it was so they could use standard high quality power supplies easily.
@@Wfmike cost constraints? Do you know how cheap it is to get a little PCB that just requests the right voltage from a PD supply? Costs a couple of dollars, probably way less if you're an OEM
@@nhansgoofyvideos7581 but that appears to be what they did, but without the PD part, they just swapped the barrel with a USB-C physical port that does not seem to quite work with most USB-C power sources.. Slapping the PD board in there would probably have been more reliable or SIMPLY not changing from the barrel jack.. IN some ways a non standard USB-C is WORSE than a barrel jack.
13:00 They could have made that voltage switch safe by design. Meaning, if you want to install the U.2 adapter, place the switch in a way that the adapter can only be installed when it’s switched „out of the way“. Same goes for the M.2 slot. Chance is, that it could be placed that both the U.2 and M.2 could only be installed when the switch is set to the correct voltage (position).
agree, they can use some NC pins to do auto-detection for required voltage supply instead of doing the "killswitch" method. The idea being atleast there's 2 NC pin on SSD that arent being used, both by SATA and NVMe protocol on M.2 M key, and if the user plug the M.2 to U.2 adapter, this two separate NC pins is shorted, thus telling the system to send 5/12V signal instead of 3.3V
my problem with the switch is that it makes the standard connector none standard, installing a small jumper cable to bring the correct voltage to the adapter would have been much better in terms of safe i think.
@pingtime that could work, although, I wonder if there's standards compliance issues preventing this, and if they want to sell the M.2 to U.2 adapter board as a separate SKU and be universal with other systems from other OEMs. Maybe the switch could have a plastic barrier that physically blocks the M.2 port when set to U.2 mode, that may be better. Having said that, a better design is certainly desirable and needed.
@@blkhackror have a power connector on the motherboard that the adapter board slots into in the same way as it connects to the M.2 slot that provides the correct power.
@@technerd9655 From what I know working as ODM engineer, no, atleast PCI-SIG didnt really enforce it. For example, M.2 E key should have 2x1 PCIe lanes + USB coming off it, (yes, not PCIe x2, but 2 separate x1 lanes), but most manufacturer didn't bother, and when google released their dual coral TPU on M.2 E key form factor, almost all customer that tried it on their off the shelf M.2 E key slot only can use 1 of 2 TPU chip, since the second one routed to non-existent 2nd PCIe x1 lane.
I don't usually buy anything on impulse, but I immediately pre-ordered one of these as a barebone system when I saw the announcement as I had been looking for something *exactly* like this to both upgrade and downscale my aging 12U homelab. Glad there's no major faults and just a few quirks. Thanks for the thorough review!
@@JamesJosephFinn Honestly, pretty great. I ran into some stability issues early on, but they seem to have sorted things out in later BIOS updates. I'm running TrueNAS with 2x MD1200 shelf's connected via an external HBA adapter. Performance is great for my use case and it just sits on my desk, quietly sipping power (unlike my old rackmount servers). Cheers. 🙂
@@mashw that's incredible! Thanks for the insight. I'm new to homelabbing, and am researching my first rig. I plan to install Debian, and use Incus to spin up LXCs that will house Docker apps / services / websites.
I am deep into home labbing since I was 14 years old. This video with the amount of effort you have put, you earned my Sub as well. Today I just discovered this channel and I am hookced. Thank you!
Patrick, the newest rev of the MS-01 with the 13900H, the U.2 or M.2 switch is now labeled higher on the board, so when you have that adapter installed, you can now see the mode the switch is set to.
This is awesome! I wish this was available a year ago when I upgraded my NUC server. This product line is now on the top of my list for the next upgrade!
I just purchased to minisforum : a venus and a Neptune series unit. Very impressed with the quality, and we will standardized on these as Linux boxed for power users in our business. What I really want is a unit like this to run over the top of my NAS.
Based on STH's positive review (as well as several other TH-camrs), I took the plunge and ordered one of Miniforum's MS-01 barebone systems (i9-12900H) on January 13th. Based on the website's clear labeling, I figured it wouldn't even ship until March 29th. You can imagine my pleasant surprise, however, when it arrived two days ago (January 24th). The last components should arrive tomorrow, so soon I'll be building my own home server!
I think this video should be a must for all Minisforum MS-01 team. I think you did more R&D than they did. Great video. You didn't trash the unit but you did give some Real-time Knowledge Base to the people considering using the product. Thanks for the work involved in this review. Very informative.
Yep. Not bad, but the lighting and the audio were a bit flat. Both need to be sharper in terms of mixing, color, also bokeh/depth. That's something that GN really gets right, and I'm sure it'll get fixed up eventually. :)
I just ended up pulling the trigger and pre-ordering one of these. I already got the Quotom unit previously reviewed (Q20332G9-S10 now sold out) and mentioned in this video. With the pair of SFP+ ports, it will be an easy path to 10Gb networking. I'm not moving over on day one, so i'm glad there's still a pair of 2.5Gb ports as well. This box will be perfect for any sort of transcoding and even some AI LLM use. Can't wait to get it.
Thank you for the excellent review, and for the community space to share ideas and problems! Currently waiting for my MS-01 with the 13900H. Should be here in a couple of weeks. Can’t wait to get my hands on it!
side note: I'm not surprised the QNAP card didn't work; Minisforum rushes their BIOSes out the door. the option ROM on my Broadcom 10G cards screwed with the ability of my BD710is to POST and I bet the PCIe switch on the QNAP card triggered something in the Minisforum BIOS that caused it to have an aneurysm every time it tried to boot.
AMD AV1 encoder is worse than QSV and NVENC, and if you are doing AV1 for archival purpose then CPU encoding is still far better. Streaming wise QSV h265 is already blazing fast so idk why there is this craze about AV1 hardware encoder
@@n0k0m3 True. It would just be a nice to have if you use your server to encode streams in real time, assuming your other devices support AV1. Doesn't really matter, but being able to stream a movie from outside your home in just a tiny bit better quality at the same bitrate is worth it to some people. Would be great if the Arc A40 was actually available or if Nvidia cared about the low-power market. The last half-height, single-slot card we got from Nvidia was the GT 1030, and it doesn't even have an encoder. And the T1000 uses Pascal's NVENC.
@@n0k0m3From what I've read so far, the gap between AMF AV1 encoder and QSV and NVENC ones is far smaller then the gap between H.264 and HEVC encoders.
@@offspringfan89 ur right, my bias was from EposVox video 3-4 years ago, just got updated with the Tom's Hardware video encoding benchmark. Apparently gaps between AV1 encoders (NVENC, QSV, AMF, CPU) are between 1-2 VMAF points now and in some cases they are equal. Also FPS for QSV is a little bit lower as well so having the 7940HS will be indeed beneficial
I would like you to run your power tests in a low power configuration. Most people want a system like this as a home server. In a home server application, the idle power consumption is key and the max performance is almost irrelevant.
I don't mind that the fan assembly is screwed in. Like how often is an end user realistically going to change the RAM? Once? I'm not convinced that a more convenient, toolless mechanism would be worth the accompanying bump in price.
4:50 I'm glad you showed the powerbrick. The website only gives you an option for a US power adapter but it doesn't say you could easily switch out the cable to suite your country.
This is a really nice, versatile system. Totally wish I had an extra $700 laying around. So curious to see what people do with this hardware in your forum thread. - Great video and great resource with the forum!
I wish you would do actual tests on deep packet inspection throughput. That is a far higher demanding workload for using this as a modern firewall than just routing and stateful inspection. That other mini PC you talked about in this vid for comparison doesnt even come close to 10gb routing through the firewall to WAN when running something like Surricata or ZenArmor. This one *might*, but it would be nice to see some testing and see for sure just what it can do. This one may have more cores, but it is still only 200-400MHz faster (depending on if you have the 3758R or non-R), so single traffic stream performance likely wont be more than around 1gb faster. Coming from not only the bit of extra core speed but also more IPC in this CPU.
FWIW I run Suricata on an i3-8100 which is probably considerably slower than the i9-13900H, and it only uses about 25-30% CPU for 1gbit/s down. I’ve only ever checked global CPU utilization though, so I have no idea how well spread out it is over the cores. Still, I’d be confident in this machine being able to do well above 1 gbit. Will it manage 10 gbit? I’m not sure.
Do you want to do deep packet inspection on your 10G traffic? IDS/IPS only ever made sense to me on a WAN interface to hostile external environments (aka the Internet), and those aren’t usually more than 1G links.
I like the thin client form factor a lot more than the typical mini-PC form factor. It's similar to ATX cases where you can just pop off the side panel to swap parts, and also looks sleeker while taking up less horizontal space when it's setup vertically. When it comes to thermals though I'm not sure which one is better.
Impressive little box. They should look into GPU modules using mobile GPUs/power supplies in the same case, would be neat to be able to stack them and connect over USB4 with it looking quite neat.
Great report, I’ve been looking for a VM test lab hardware, the product designers can fix the voltage switch by modifying the drive bracket, such that it cannot be installed unless the U.2 is selected, simple fix with sheet metal.
Great review as always. Thank you for the time you take. There is obviously so much work that goes into what you present, an effort to be thorough and a desire to be informative. Keep up the great work, I look forward to your future content.
Amazing video as always! I was eyeing this little box as an app server, but judging by what is written in the main site review and the lack of mention here, it does not support in-line ECC? Kinda feared that when I saw the 12900H/13900H CPU options. Oh well, with SFP+, U.2, a PCIe slot and all that, it really feels like it should be there.
Impressive little box. I want to see how much external storage this thing can handle. It would make a great VM server with something like proxmox and truenas. It should have enough horsepower to handle a bunch of external drives, all the switching, and still have plenty left over for a few Windows VM's.
I'd love a version with ECC support. The 13900H doesn't support it, but the HX or HRE suffixed versions would. Or perhaps something from AMD? But then we'd lose vPro.
Patrick was right. The clearance under the heat dissipation bracket and fan is so tight that you can’t even fit an ultra-thin heatsink (I.e., a .5mm silica gel pad and 1mm copper plate) on the second or third SSD (although placing it on the first SSD, which isn’t encumbered by the fan, isn’t a problem).
Great video review as always -- appreciate the in depth coverage. I've been waiting for this video since you teased the MS-01 in the short. I know you recommended keeping below 25w, but the Minisforum website claims it can support a RTX A2000 Mobile so I'd have loved to see that claim tested. While you have a lot of server/IT fans, there's probably a lot of crossover for people who like gaming/workstation content and would like to see at least one or two cards tried out in that realm with the results documented. Thanks again, keep up the good work!
I talked about it a bit more in the main site's review today. RTX A2000 Mobile support is modders in China. We could not get a LP single slot A2000 Mobile. You also need enough power for it (240-250W power brick) and it will drop the CPU power limits and performance by adding the A2000 Mobile.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo will double back to the article, thanks. Any other low profile half height graphics card would have sufficed. Tracking on the reduced power available and the bigger brick need. If you guys didn't have a bigger power supply for testing purposes I understand - just know there will probably be many comments asking about it (which is always good for the algorithm :V). Thanks!
I wish he had tried something besides the qnap card with extra nics on it. I would like to see if 8x8 bifurcation is possible,. Otherwise it's a no go.
This guy would be PERFECT as a firewall/router/IPS in a homelab! Honestly a beautiful product, very powerful CPU for packet inspection and dual SFP+, it seems more of a piece of network equipment than a PC tbh
The entry level 12600H equipped barebones is now running $400. I bought one to run TrueNAS + Plex, along with a Terramaster 6 bay DAS, and it's a beast in a tiny package.
I saw this machine but still got myself a Think Station P3 tiny. I chose an ES motherboard so that I got 3 M.2 slots. I paired the P3 tint with the i5-12400 and it was 1/3 cheaper than the MS-01 with the 12900H option. There seemed to be an i5-12450h option with the MS-01, but it is not available and we don't know when they will start selling this option. I don't really like the i9 CPU that MS-01 provides right now because I don't want to stretch the cooling system too far. I did see the appeal of the dual 10G NIC but for someone who doesn't really need it, it is a piece of hardware that consumes power and does nothing. On the other hand, I can add USB type A, DP, HDMI, or TypeC with video and charging to the Tiny via expansion modules, which makes it very flexible. However, doing this does sacrifice the PCIE cutout. It is also more difficult to install PCIE cards sideways compared to Tiny's riser approach. At least it doesn't require a special PCIE bracket though. All in all, I think both MS-01 and P3 Tiny are both nice SFF machines. It really comes down to whether you prefer the dual 10G SFP port and the USB4 port, (Yes, it is USB4 rather than Thunderbolt, although they are functionally the same.) or more flexibility. I will also provide a quick technical comparison here for anyone interested: P3 Tiny |VS| MS-01 form factor: Standard size |VS| A bit larger than Standard size. (Matters if you want to put it in a server rack.) CPU: Any CPU from Intel 12,13 and 14GEN |VS| 13900H,12900H, or 12450H. (12450H not available yet.) iGPU: MS-01 is always better as mobile chips always get better iGPU compared to their desktop counterpart. NIC: i219-LM 1Gx1 |VS| i226v 2.5G + i226LM 2.5G +x710 10Gx2. (Both machines can support vPRO.) PCIE: Gen4/5 x8 |VS| Gen4/5 x8. (Gen5 is available on 13th Gen CPUs.) PCIE specific: Need custom PCIE bracket |VS| Difficult to install and uninstall. USB Expansion: 4x10G type A + 2x5G type A + 1x10G type C |VS| 3x10G type A + 2x 480 M(2.0) type A + 2x40G USB4. (Tiny can expend 4x 5G type A or 1x10G type C with Video and charging expansion module, by giving up the PCIE cutout) Video Expansion: DP1.4 + HDMI 2.0 |VS| HDMI 2.0 + 2xUSB4. (Tiny can expend 2xDP, 2xHDMI, or 2xTypeC DPalt via the expansion module, by giving up the PCIE cutout.) Storage Expansion: 2xM.2 |VS| 2xM.2 + 1x M.2/U.2. (Tiny get 3xM.2 on the ES motherboard.)
This is super cool. It has basically everything. Only way it could be better, is 1x25G instead of 2x10G. No front facing USB Type-C is a bit meh, but not a big deal. Would definitively be nice to see evolution of this. I am not in a need at the moment, but definitively interesting.
@ServeTheHome maybe is worth to mention ( as a note ) that 96GB of RAM is supported only on the model with the Intel i9-13900H, the one with the i9-12900H only supports 64GB of RAM according to Intel design.
It may be worthwhile to test more than 64 gb on the 12th gen as Intel ark limits on ram isn't always a hard limit. The Intel N305 seems to work well enough with 32gb to have mini PCs ship with it even though it's limited to 16gb according to Intel.
@@Lollllllz I've place the order for Intel 12th gen edition, maybe I can check on mine when arrives. I'll let you know, but I'm not confident it will works
Upon further review, this is no longer as clear. Intel may very well have implanted a hardware block on the H CPUs out of spite for OEMs. Who's got a 12th gen coming that's willing to burn some money? Original comment: STH has tested 12th gen with 48 GB DIMMs, so this is incorrect. th-cam.com/video/HylKpDmwaFA/w-d-xo.html Intel 12th gen absolteuly supports these DIMMs, and the mobos *should* be identical so there's no reason the 12th gen model won't. As always, documented support and actual support are never the same thing.
@@MattNukem that particular CPU is listed to support up to 128GB by Intel, not surprise it works with a single 48GB SODIMM or a total of 96GB in 42GB by 2
That really looks cool, ok, it is expensive, which you might expect with that performance, but for a non-desktop system that really looks as good as it gets :D
I was about to buy the rack version of the R86 when I saw the announcement of this, the connectivity on this is insane! I wonder how hard it is to attach a pikvm to this (the ATX part), then it would be the perfect machine for a small cluster. The one thing that was holding me back from that unit was that I would want both SFP+ and a fast link to the rest of my network. With this I can run QFSP28 since it's PCIe 4.0 x8
I'd be curious if you could forsake wifi and stick in a 2230 m.2 size drive to host your VM hyperadvisor or OS on (Proxmox, Truenas, Windows Server HypervV, etc) then have the 3 full sized built in m.2 drives in a RAID config.
That was part of my thought watching this. I'm searching for servers to run my office's proxmox cluster (we are moving off of VMWare after a recent renewal that almost didn't happen) I think 4 of these with a 128gb drive in the wifi slot and 3 2tb intel nvme drives would work perfect for running CEPH. 6tb usable space and the ability to run a melanox dual 25gb card is pretty tempting since I only need to store 2tb of data, just need it up all the time for medical work.
Hmmm! This might be a compelling upgrade from my cluster of EliteDesk 800 G4 boxen. I should be able to pick up the barebones with the 12900H and reuse my memory and move my external Optane cache inside the box. I wonder if someone makes a low-profile 40Gbe or 100Gbe card that will work well.
It's looking like I may even be able to use some ConnectX-3 cards I already have in my pile! I just have to find a low-power 40Gbe switch. Anyone have any suggestions?
And they have one with an i5-12450H for only $420. That's still a pretty good upgrade for me. I have six cores now. This takes me to 4p4e. Same number of threads. I'll have to decide if it is worth the extra $130x3 to have the i9-12900H with its 6p8e and eight more threads.
I like the direction they are going, but lower end processor would be nice. Don't need or want i9 due to power and heat. It would be nice to see how low power you can get this and if it can reach low C states. I doubt it will due to customization. We also need a small 2.5" external bay that's not USB. 4, 6, or 8. Or better yet, design a mini pc, make it 17mm thicker and you could house 4 ssd's.
Omg, imagine this machine with an HBA and an DAS, would make for a cool expandable NAS. (I wrote this comment after watching the intro, don't know yet if the same idea will be expressed in the video)
I feel like they missed an opportunity by not making the bottom part 8-10mm higher - could have fit a full-fat U.2 drive plus more clearance for M.2 heatsinks and that blower.
You didn't mention the greatest achievement - flipping the PCIe card over so it doesn't "dutch oven" itself. Something that is the achilles heel for 1L "discrete" PCs - that's shy they stop making them. Although Minisforum didn't think to drill holes on top of the PCIe card so it can get natural cooling - having the cover out usually is enough for most PCIe cards, as long it's position this way. I still don't get why vendors have to feed us low version USB slots when the chipset allows for a lot more and higher version for free. Personally I would love Minisforum to have the the i9-13900T option - Uber low idle and very low consumption power - low power consumption option for my linux ESXi systems and higher power consumption option for my windows ESXi systems. Love the USB 4, 2.5Gb and 10Gb ports. I would definitely not say no to an extra NVMe. P.S. Minisforum could feed the U2 high voltage from the screw mounts and get away with the M.2/U.2 switch entirely.
As far as that X710 issue goes, I recently received 14 new servers at work with a similar issue. While the cards install, there is no way to populate all the SFP ports, as the top port always has some obstacle. This would not work with any SFP module nor any SFP cable. So, we were stuck with just 3 ports actually being usable. Since it is just a test/education lab environment, it didn't really matter that much, but it still brings up that there are issues with any quad SFP port card and low profile. There just isn't enough room.
Rubber bands on SSD heat sinks are generally to accommodate double or single sides SSDs and allow placement to accommodate various SSD layouts. Clips or wires on a 3rd party SSD may short something.
The PC is neat and all, but I NEED to know why the bottom right corner of the talking head segments had a bit of the background pasted over it! Your hand passed behind it at 4:53 and it's driving me crazy wondering what could have been there that had to be edited out in post!
@ServeTheHomeVideo Thanks for the review ! Could you test if ECC memory is properly recognized and used ? If so, this mini server should be a dream machine for building ZFS NAS !
I wish they would come up with 1u versions of this sort of thing. I've longed for the 4 port mini PCs to be in a rack case, instead they generally procuce overpriced mITX firewall appliances. You'd have a bit more room in a short form factor 1u case too for the PCI slot and power supply.
Supermicro has some nice 1u reverse mounted shallow boxes, That come with plenty of ports or have 2 or 3 pci-e slots available and some bang to do 5G edge stuff.
The "problem" with 1U is that unless the integrator designed in custom ducting, cooling performance is absolutely abysmal without having 3-4 of those mini jet engine 40mm fans screaming all the time. Even at idle, comparing my i5-7500T which is in both a 1U server and a Lenovo m710q... The 1U consistently runs 10°+ hotter, and loud. The properly designed cooling (and external power supply) does it cooler and silently. Of course noise isn't usually a concern for rack equipment, but a lot of folks, arguably the majority of people buying such a system, have their homelab in their office or living environment.
Things that I want to see on this awesome piece of Herdware: - An editional DiplayPort (or MiniDP) on the back. - 2 Extra /More USB 3.0 (A/B) Ports on the rear - Something to "lock" the powercable in place - A Powerbrick with the same Size /Formfactor, that can be attached to the Case. Perhabs with in integrated USB Hub (Some front and some Rear USB 3.0, Cardreader) - change one of this 10Gbit Ports to one with cooper only - one onboard USB for things line a USB Stick with unraid an stuff like that - That U2/NVMe SSD - make it a Jumper or a switch that can only be switched with a tool. Also you may automate this: But a switch under that M.2 Slot Screws
what i really want from this is 2x2x2x2x bifurcation on the PCIe slot, i want a total of 7 M.2 in this machine and while yes 2x10g+2x2.5g is fast networking, a pair of M.2 drives can overwhelm the networking, so 4 of them at 2x is plenty fast enough Also the ability to install one of the 1.5TB Optane U.2 drive would have been cool, but its 15mm
I don't think I've ever seen a system do 2 lane pci-e bifurcation. And a single NVME drive is faster than 10g networking. Consider this, 10gb/s = 1250MB/s PCI-E gen 3 drives can do 3500MB/s So one of them is plenty enough for speed.. The rest is for redundancy and capacity.
@@jorper2526 Yep, want it for capacity on a Z1 ZFS array 7 drives total, 2 for OS and 5 for storage 4 usable, without 2x bifurcation you'd be limited to 3 drives with 2 usable. Also, dont forget unless you're getting enterprise drive many of these M.2 drives will slow to under 100MB/s with extended writes, i have a 4TB drive that slows to 40MB/s after writing about 100GB to it, and that threshold lowers as the drive fills, more drives means that threshold is larger, with 3 drives you can meet that threshold at just 200GB and now the array cant even saturate a 1G port hitting only 80MB/s. With 5 drives you're limit is about 400GB and it only slows to ~ 1.3Gbps after that
3:47 Intel NUCs, especially those with vPro give you the option to emulate a display when none is connected. It would be nice if Minisforum could program their BIOS in a similar way.
@@omidyt8260 thank you for the insight! I'm new to homelabbing, and am researching using this unit as my first rig. I'm planning to install Debian, then use Incus to spin up LXCs that will house Docker apps / services / websites.
I would really love to see someone do a review on the Lenovo P3 Ultra. It is the newer generation of the P360 Ultra and is just a bit bigger than this here; 13th gen Intel, NVIDIA A2000, ECC ram support and a PCIe slot x8 which I would use for the QNAP card you used in this video and connect to the 4-bay QNAP DAS. I doubt the Lenovo unit gives you the option of nuking your SSD too 😉
It's great what these "mini PC" companies are doing. It's amazing how much computing power you can pack into such vastly smaller packages than tower desktops these days.
Wonder if they could make some 1u rack fins for it. didn't check the dimensions but it looks like it is about the size of some of those half width switches.
Between this and the Qotom system you guys recently reviewed it looks like some companies out there are listening to what the 'lower' end of the market and home labbers are looking for. Still needs some work but this is the first $400+ mini I'd consider buying over building my own or buying second hand. Now if they could stuff 2 of these into a 1u chassis with lower TDP CPU's (maybe AMD?) at a reasonable price... Well I can dream anyway.
Question to the experts: Can I connect an eGPU via the USB4 (thunderbolt) so that I can overcome a/ the power supply and 2/ low profile pcie slot? If so, this would be a perfect system for my use case.
$400 eGPU has less than half the performance of a similar priced full GPU card. At that point you might as well build a mini ITX system that will not have those compromises.
That feeling when random small chinese OEMs actually listen to customers while bic corporations still make the same NUC clones 10 years later
They listen but sometimes don't understand.. Case and point the R86s now has USB-C power, but it isn't standard USB-C PD power it is some funky direct wire that doesn't seem to work with a bunch of power supplies. The point of users asking for USB-C on it was so they could use standard high quality power supplies easily.
@@YKSGuythis is probably due to cost constraints.
@@Wfmike cost constraints? Do you know how cheap it is to get a little PCB that just requests the right voltage from a PD supply? Costs a couple of dollars, probably way less if you're an OEM
@@fallow_ sure a PD trigger is cheap... but you cannot just slap a port like that on the machine....
@@nhansgoofyvideos7581 but that appears to be what they did, but without the PD part, they just swapped the barrel with a USB-C physical port that does not seem to quite work with most USB-C power sources.. Slapping the PD board in there would probably have been more reliable or SIMPLY not changing from the barrel jack.. IN some ways a non standard USB-C is WORSE than a barrel jack.
13:00 They could have made that voltage switch safe by design. Meaning, if you want to install the U.2 adapter, place the switch in a way that the adapter can only be installed when it’s switched „out of the way“. Same goes for the M.2 slot. Chance is, that it could be placed that both the U.2 and M.2 could only be installed when the switch is set to the correct voltage (position).
agree, they can use some NC pins to do auto-detection for required voltage supply instead of doing the "killswitch" method. The idea being atleast there's 2 NC pin on SSD that arent being used, both by SATA and NVMe protocol on M.2 M key, and if the user plug the M.2 to U.2 adapter, this two separate NC pins is shorted, thus telling the system to send 5/12V signal instead of 3.3V
my problem with the switch is that it makes the standard connector none standard, installing a small jumper cable to bring the correct voltage to the adapter would have been much better in terms of safe i think.
@pingtime that could work, although, I wonder if there's standards compliance issues preventing this, and if they want to sell the M.2 to U.2 adapter board as a separate SKU and be universal with other systems from other OEMs. Maybe the switch could have a plastic barrier that physically blocks the M.2 port when set to U.2 mode, that may be better. Having said that, a better design is certainly desirable and needed.
@@blkhackror have a power connector on the motherboard that the adapter board slots into in the same way as it connects to the M.2 slot that provides the correct power.
@@technerd9655 From what I know working as ODM engineer, no, atleast PCI-SIG didnt really enforce it. For example, M.2 E key should have 2x1 PCIe lanes + USB coming off it, (yes, not PCIe x2, but 2 separate x1 lanes), but most manufacturer didn't bother, and when google released their dual coral TPU on M.2 E key form factor, almost all customer that tried it on their off the shelf M.2 E key slot only can use 1 of 2 TPU chip, since the second one routed to non-existent 2nd PCIe x1 lane.
Enterprise PC makers: “Customers get what they get.” Mini PC makers: “sure we can make that perfect homelab pc for you.”
I don't usually buy anything on impulse, but I immediately pre-ordered one of these as a barebone system when I saw the announcement as I had been looking for something *exactly* like this to both upgrade and downscale my aging 12U homelab. Glad there's no major faults and just a few quirks. Thanks for the thorough review!
How's your minisforum running?
@@JamesJosephFinn Honestly, pretty great. I ran into some stability issues early on, but they seem to have sorted things out in later BIOS updates. I'm running TrueNAS with 2x MD1200 shelf's connected via an external HBA adapter. Performance is great for my use case and it just sits on my desk, quietly sipping power (unlike my old rackmount servers). Cheers. 🙂
@@mashw that's incredible! Thanks for the insight. I'm new to homelabbing, and am researching my first rig. I plan to install Debian, and use Incus to spin up LXCs that will house Docker apps / services / websites.
I am deep into home labbing since I was 14 years old. This video with the amount of effort you have put, you earned my Sub as well. Today I just discovered this channel and I am hookced. Thank you!
Hell yeah! Love sth content, right in time for lunch.
As always, Patrick’s enthusiasm is infectious
Have an awesome day!
Excellent presentation. Thank you. I have been on the watch for this one all week now.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Patrick, the newest rev of the MS-01 with the 13900H, the U.2 or M.2 switch is now labeled higher on the board, so when you have that adapter installed, you can now see the mode the switch is set to.
Good to see they are taking my feedback.
This is awesome! I wish this was available a year ago when I upgraded my NUC server. This product line is now on the top of my list for the next upgrade!
I just purchased to minisforum : a venus and a Neptune series unit. Very impressed with the quality, and we will standardized on these as Linux boxed for power users in our business. What I really want is a unit like this to run over the top of my NAS.
Thanks for trying the QNAP adapter cards. That's exactly the use case I'm looking at. :-)
Glad to hear it helped. I thought that would be something I wanted with this system.
Based on STH's positive review (as well as several other TH-camrs), I took the plunge and ordered one of Miniforum's MS-01 barebone systems (i9-12900H) on January 13th. Based on the website's clear labeling, I figured it wouldn't even ship until March 29th. You can imagine my pleasant surprise, however, when it arrived two days ago (January 24th). The last components should arrive tomorrow, so soon I'll be building my own home server!
Now, you have the joy of trying 57 different pcie cards, hoping one will work.
How's your Minisforum running?
I think this video should be a must for all Minisforum MS-01 team. I think you did more R&D than they did. Great video. You didn't trash the unit but you did give some Real-time Knowledge Base to the people considering using the product. Thanks for the work involved in this review. Very informative.
You had me at dual 10gb spf+.
Three M2 slots and a pcie, just further seals the deal.
Love the new studio. Not as intimate as the old one due to the format but looks awesome and I look forward to the content you guys will produce there!
Yep. Not bad, but the lighting and the audio were a bit flat. Both need to be sharper in terms of mixing, color, also bokeh/depth. That's something that GN really gets right, and I'm sure it'll get fixed up eventually. :)
I just ended up pulling the trigger and pre-ordering one of these. I already got the Quotom unit previously reviewed (Q20332G9-S10 now sold out) and mentioned in this video. With the pair of SFP+ ports, it will be an easy path to 10Gb networking. I'm not moving over on day one, so i'm glad there's still a pair of 2.5Gb ports as well. This box will be perfect for any sort of transcoding and even some AI LLM use. Can't wait to get it.
Sold out? I hope that product line isn’t dead.
Thank you for the excellent review, and for the community space to share ideas and problems! Currently waiting for my MS-01 with the 13900H. Should be here in a couple of weeks. Can’t wait to get my hands on it!
side note: I'm not surprised the QNAP card didn't work; Minisforum rushes their BIOSes out the door. the option ROM on my Broadcom 10G cards screwed with the ability of my BD710is to POST and I bet the PCIe switch on the QNAP card triggered something in the Minisforum BIOS that caused it to have an aneurysm every time it tried to boot.
7940HS would have been cool so we had built in AV1 encoding. The Arc Pro A40 is still MIA over a year later.
Same sentiments. I'd probably hold out for the V2/next release.
AMD AV1 encoder is worse than QSV and NVENC, and if you are doing AV1 for archival purpose then CPU encoding is still far better.
Streaming wise QSV h265 is already blazing fast so idk why there is this craze about AV1 hardware encoder
@@n0k0m3
True. It would just be a nice to have if you use your server to encode streams in real time, assuming your other devices support AV1. Doesn't really matter, but being able to stream a movie from outside your home in just a tiny bit better quality at the same bitrate is worth it to some people. Would be great if the Arc A40 was actually available or if Nvidia cared about the low-power market. The last half-height, single-slot card we got from Nvidia was the GT 1030, and it doesn't even have an encoder. And the T1000 uses Pascal's NVENC.
@@n0k0m3From what I've read so far, the gap between AMF AV1 encoder and QSV and NVENC ones is far smaller then the gap between H.264 and HEVC encoders.
@@offspringfan89 ur right, my bias was from EposVox video 3-4 years ago, just got updated with the Tom's Hardware video encoding benchmark.
Apparently gaps between AV1 encoders (NVENC, QSV, AMF, CPU) are between 1-2 VMAF points now and in some cases they are equal. Also FPS for QSV is a little bit lower as well so having the 7940HS will be indeed beneficial
I would like you to run your power tests in a low power configuration. Most people want a system like this as a home server. In a home server application, the idle power consumption is key and the max performance is almost irrelevant.
Yhe the 10 watt is way to much. Power is expensive and everything above 8 watt is a no no. Would love to see how low it can go.
That transfer rate for the NVME drives is a deal breaker.I am glad I saw this.
Bonus points from me for supporting 22110 format NVMe drives! I fear to go and look at the CDN price on this...
I don't mind that the fan assembly is screwed in. Like how often is an end user realistically going to change the RAM? Once? I'm not convinced that a more convenient, toolless mechanism would be worth the accompanying bump in price.
Yes, exactly. Everyone has those screwdrivers available.
4:50 I'm glad you showed the powerbrick. The website only gives you an option for a US power adapter but it doesn't say you could easily switch out the cable to suite your country.
This is a really nice, versatile system. Totally wish I had an extra $700 laying around.
So curious to see what people do with this hardware in your forum thread. - Great video and great resource with the forum!
Awesome! Was waiting for this review 😄
About the PCIE slot inconvenient coverage, I have a Dremel :)
It is probably easier just to take the faceplates off, but it is a pain.
I wish you would do actual tests on deep packet inspection throughput. That is a far higher demanding workload for using this as a modern firewall than just routing and stateful inspection. That other mini PC you talked about in this vid for comparison doesnt even come close to 10gb routing through the firewall to WAN when running something like Surricata or ZenArmor. This one *might*, but it would be nice to see some testing and see for sure just what it can do. This one may have more cores, but it is still only 200-400MHz faster (depending on if you have the 3758R or non-R), so single traffic stream performance likely wont be more than around 1gb faster. Coming from not only the bit of extra core speed but also more IPC in this CPU.
FWIW I run Suricata on an i3-8100 which is probably considerably slower than the i9-13900H, and it only uses about 25-30% CPU for 1gbit/s down. I’ve only ever checked global CPU utilization though, so I have no idea how well spread out it is over the cores. Still, I’d be confident in this machine being able to do well above 1 gbit. Will it manage 10 gbit? I’m not sure.
Do you want to do deep packet inspection on your 10G traffic? IDS/IPS only ever made sense to me on a WAN interface to hostile external environments (aka the Internet), and those aren’t usually more than 1G links.
I like the thin client form factor a lot more than the typical mini-PC form factor. It's similar to ATX cases where you can just pop off the side panel to swap parts, and also looks sleeker while taking up less horizontal space when it's setup vertically. When it comes to thermals though I'm not sure which one is better.
Finally getting hardware that can do everything we need. Will be back for more research when I get time.
Impressive little box. They should look into GPU modules using mobile GPUs/power supplies in the same case, would be neat to be able to stack them and connect over USB4 with it looking quite neat.
Great report, I’ve been looking for a VM test lab hardware, the product designers can fix the voltage switch by modifying the drive bracket, such that it cannot be installed unless the U.2 is selected, simple fix with sheet metal.
The sound is better on the old set, some tweaking to be done.
I hope they build this with an amd 8700g. I would buy that..
Great review as always. Thank you for the time you take. There is obviously so much work that goes into what you present, an effort to be thorough and a desire to be informative. Keep up the great work, I look forward to your future content.
Amazing video as always! I was eyeing this little box as an app server, but judging by what is written in the main site review and the lack of mention here, it does not support in-line ECC? Kinda feared that when I saw the 12900H/13900H CPU options. Oh well, with SFP+, U.2, a PCIe slot and all that, it really feels like it should be there.
Impressive little box. I want to see how much external storage this thing can handle. It would make a great VM server with something like proxmox and truenas. It should have enough horsepower to handle a bunch of external drives, all the switching, and still have plenty left over for a few Windows VM's.
Well done!! Studio lookin' good!
Come see it again soon and check out this unit at the same time! I am around tomorrow
I'd love a version with ECC support. The 13900H doesn't support it, but the HX or HRE suffixed versions would. Or perhaps something from AMD? But then we'd lose vPro.
ECC overrated for non-NAS machines anyway
@@Wahinies A multipurpose NAS is exactly what I have in mind
@@Wahinies ECC is love, ECC is life
I really hope they release a version with the w680 chipset and ECC support 🙏🏼
I love your content and have watch thise several times. I guess I will wait for the MS-02 and hope they make it bigger and with more airflow.
Patrick was right. The clearance under the heat dissipation bracket and fan is so tight that you can’t even fit an ultra-thin heatsink (I.e., a .5mm silica gel pad and 1mm copper plate) on the second or third SSD (although placing it on the first SSD, which isn’t encumbered by the fan, isn’t a problem).
Thks & solves my 10Gbps problem with my Synology NAS
Very thorough and fair review, thank you Patrick.
Glad it was helpful!
Quality production for the review. Interesting product, very versatile for home services. Hopefully they listen to the constructive criticism.
Thank you for a more detailed clip....appreciated
Great. Another new device I didn't know I needed. RIP paycheck.
Great video review as always -- appreciate the in depth coverage. I've been waiting for this video since you teased the MS-01 in the short.
I know you recommended keeping below 25w, but the Minisforum website claims it can support a RTX A2000 Mobile so I'd have loved to see that claim tested. While you have a lot of server/IT fans, there's probably a lot of crossover for people who like gaming/workstation content and would like to see at least one or two cards tried out in that realm with the results documented. Thanks again, keep up the good work!
I talked about it a bit more in the main site's review today. RTX A2000 Mobile support is modders in China. We could not get a LP single slot A2000 Mobile. You also need enough power for it (240-250W power brick) and it will drop the CPU power limits and performance by adding the A2000 Mobile.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo will double back to the article, thanks.
Any other low profile half height graphics card would have sufficed. Tracking on the reduced power available and the bigger brick need. If you guys didn't have a bigger power supply for testing purposes I understand - just know there will probably be many comments asking about it (which is always good for the algorithm :V). Thanks!
This would be a perfect as a nas. Pull the ssd and wifi out and have 4 m.2 drives and put in a pcie card with 2 more m.2 ports.
I wish he had tried something besides the qnap card with extra nics on it. I would like to see if 8x8 bifurcation is possible,. Otherwise it's a no go.
@@fwiler Is bifurcation supported to begin with?
Anither amazing indepth review from sth. Keep up the amazjng work. This tiny pc seens like an amazing homrlab platforrm
Glad you liked it!
Wow, 25-30W during idle is insanely high! But on the other hand... it's a performance system. Thanks for the review! I always enjoy your videos.
This guy would be PERFECT as a firewall/router/IPS in a homelab!
Honestly a beautiful product, very powerful CPU for packet inspection and dual SFP+, it seems more of a piece of network equipment than a PC tbh
I agree. Does this thing have the power to do line speed ids/ips on 10G?
The entry level 12600H equipped barebones is now running $400. I bought one to run TrueNAS + Plex, along with a Terramaster 6 bay DAS, and it's a beast in a tiny package.
I saw this machine but still got myself a Think Station P3 tiny. I chose an ES motherboard so that I got 3 M.2 slots. I paired the P3 tint with the i5-12400 and it was 1/3 cheaper than the MS-01 with the 12900H option.
There seemed to be an i5-12450h option with the MS-01, but it is not available and we don't know when they will start selling this option. I don't really like the i9 CPU that MS-01 provides right now because I don't want to stretch the cooling system too far.
I did see the appeal of the dual 10G NIC but for someone who doesn't really need it, it is a piece of hardware that consumes power and does nothing. On the other hand, I can add USB type A, DP, HDMI, or TypeC with video and charging to the Tiny via expansion modules, which makes it very flexible. However, doing this does sacrifice the PCIE cutout.
It is also more difficult to install PCIE cards sideways compared to Tiny's riser approach. At least it doesn't require a special PCIE bracket though.
All in all, I think both MS-01 and P3 Tiny are both nice SFF machines. It really comes down to whether you prefer the dual 10G SFP port and the USB4 port, (Yes, it is USB4 rather than Thunderbolt, although they are functionally the same.) or more flexibility.
I will also provide a quick technical comparison here for anyone interested:
P3 Tiny |VS| MS-01
form factor: Standard size |VS| A bit larger than Standard size. (Matters if you want to put it in a server rack.)
CPU: Any CPU from Intel 12,13 and 14GEN |VS| 13900H,12900H, or 12450H. (12450H not available yet.)
iGPU: MS-01 is always better as mobile chips always get better iGPU compared to their desktop counterpart.
NIC: i219-LM 1Gx1 |VS| i226v 2.5G + i226LM 2.5G +x710 10Gx2. (Both machines can support vPRO.)
PCIE: Gen4/5 x8 |VS| Gen4/5 x8. (Gen5 is available on 13th Gen CPUs.)
PCIE specific: Need custom PCIE bracket |VS| Difficult to install and uninstall.
USB Expansion: 4x10G type A + 2x5G type A + 1x10G type C |VS| 3x10G type A + 2x 480 M(2.0) type A + 2x40G USB4. (Tiny can expend 4x 5G type A or 1x10G type C with Video and charging expansion module, by giving up the PCIE cutout)
Video Expansion: DP1.4 + HDMI 2.0 |VS| HDMI 2.0 + 2xUSB4. (Tiny can expend 2xDP, 2xHDMI, or 2xTypeC DPalt via the expansion module, by giving up the PCIE cutout.)
Storage Expansion: 2xM.2 |VS| 2xM.2 + 1x M.2/U.2. (Tiny get 3xM.2 on the ES motherboard.)
Would love to see them do more models in the same case, perhaps lower power than i9
This is super cool. It has basically everything. Only way it could be better, is 1x25G instead of 2x10G. No front facing USB Type-C is a bit meh, but not a big deal. Would definitively be nice to see evolution of this. I am not in a need at the moment, but definitively interesting.
Why one 25Gbs? I see two 10Gbs much more useful for a firewall device or router.
@@deanwilliams433 damn right! Who is running 25Gps ethernet at home? More ports definitely more useful for router/firewall/switch
I'd really love to see comparision with Lenovo ThinkStation P3 Ultra and HP Z2 Mini, when they've got a decent 2.5G/SFP+ update
That might be interesting one day.
@ServeTheHome maybe is worth to mention ( as a note ) that 96GB of RAM is supported only on the model with the Intel i9-13900H, the one with the i9-12900H only supports 64GB of RAM according to Intel design.
Thank you.
It may be worthwhile to test more than 64 gb on the 12th gen as Intel ark limits on ram isn't always a hard limit. The Intel N305 seems to work well enough with 32gb to have mini PCs ship with it even though it's limited to 16gb according to Intel.
@@Lollllllz I've place the order for Intel 12th gen edition, maybe I can check on mine when arrives. I'll let you know, but I'm not confident it will works
Upon further review, this is no longer as clear. Intel may very well have implanted a hardware block on the H CPUs out of spite for OEMs. Who's got a 12th gen coming that's willing to burn some money?
Original comment:
STH has tested 12th gen with 48 GB DIMMs, so this is incorrect. th-cam.com/video/HylKpDmwaFA/w-d-xo.html
Intel 12th gen absolteuly supports these DIMMs, and the mobos *should* be identical so there's no reason the 12th gen model won't. As always, documented support and actual support are never the same thing.
@@MattNukem that particular CPU is listed to support up to 128GB by Intel, not surprise it works with a single 48GB SODIMM or a total of 96GB in 42GB by 2
That really looks cool, ok, it is expensive, which you might expect with that performance, but for a non-desktop system that really looks as good as it gets :D
This is on sale $679 direct, that seems like a steal for this hardware. thanks for the review
Love this minisforum...wish it had gen 14 so we could use it for gaming too 🙂
Thanks for the thorough review and noticing that the SSD doesn't fit
I just wish there was a racknount version. That could be small enough to mount it into small wallmounted network racks
Those rubber bands comes with the heat sink that is on the NVME. It is only there to hold the aluminum heatsink in place.
I was about to buy the rack version of the R86 when I saw the announcement of this, the connectivity on this is insane! I wonder how hard it is to attach a pikvm to this (the ATX part), then it would be the perfect machine for a small cluster. The one thing that was holding me back from that unit was that I would want both SFP+ and a fast link to the rest of my network. With this I can run QFSP28 since it's PCIe 4.0 x8
Do you really need pikvm here? As far as I understood it has some sort of ipmi already in it ( on the right 2.5gb nic)
I'd be curious if you could forsake wifi and stick in a 2230 m.2 size drive to host your VM hyperadvisor or OS on (Proxmox, Truenas, Windows Server HypervV, etc) then have the 3 full sized built in m.2 drives in a RAID config.
That was part of my thought watching this. I'm searching for servers to run my office's proxmox cluster (we are moving off of VMWare after a recent renewal that almost didn't happen) I think 4 of these with a 128gb drive in the wifi slot and 3 2tb intel nvme drives would work perfect for running CEPH. 6tb usable space and the ability to run a melanox dual 25gb card is pretty tempting since I only need to store 2tb of data, just need it up all the time for medical work.
Hmmm! This might be a compelling upgrade from my cluster of EliteDesk 800 G4 boxen. I should be able to pick up the barebones with the 12900H and reuse my memory and move my external Optane cache inside the box.
I wonder if someone makes a low-profile 40Gbe or 100Gbe card that will work well.
It's looking like I may even be able to use some ConnectX-3 cards I already have in my pile! I just have to find a low-power 40Gbe switch. Anyone have any suggestions?
And they have one with an i5-12450H for only $420. That's still a pretty good upgrade for me. I have six cores now. This takes me to 4p4e. Same number of threads. I'll have to decide if it is worth the extra $130x3 to have the i9-12900H with its 6p8e and eight more threads.
I would love it if they could put an ECC-compatible CPU in one of these.
I like the direction they are going, but lower end processor would be nice. Don't need or want i9 due to power and heat. It would be nice to see how low power you can get this and if it can reach low C states. I doubt it will due to customization. We also need a small 2.5" external bay that's not USB. 4, 6, or 8. Or better yet, design a mini pc, make it 17mm thicker and you could house 4 ssd's.
I've love a rack mountable version of this.
Wonder when/if ecc memory will become the standard.
New studios looking great!
This is insanely crazy awesome! :D Want one! No wait 40! :D
Awesome review Patrick! 👍
Wow, the best small server available!! Got all that you want!
Great video, thanks!
Glad you liked it!
When he's at the other set potinting at the board I felt like I was watching a weatherman. The wattage trackerman, in other news back to you Patrick.
Just trying to mix it up a bit versus just having me sit around
@@ServeTheHomeVideo lol I wasn't saying I didn't like it! I had ya on my side screen at work and thought it looked like a weatherman set haha.
Thank you.. THIS IS A PERFECT little mini pc for various uses...
Omg, imagine this machine with an HBA and an DAS, would make for a cool expandable NAS. (I wrote this comment after watching the intro, don't know yet if the same idea will be expressed in the video)
Hopefully you got to the 144TB HDD setup during the plug fest part :-)
Only if it supports ecc
I subscribed because of the quality of your video 🎥 thank you
I feel like they missed an opportunity by not making the bottom part 8-10mm higher - could have fit a full-fat U.2 drive plus more clearance for M.2 heatsinks and that blower.
Exactly
You didn't mention the greatest achievement - flipping the PCIe card over so it doesn't "dutch oven" itself. Something that is the achilles heel for 1L "discrete" PCs - that's shy they stop making them. Although Minisforum didn't think to drill holes on top of the PCIe card so it can get natural cooling - having the cover out usually is enough for most PCIe cards, as long it's position this way. I still don't get why vendors have to feed us low version USB slots when the chipset allows for a lot more and higher version for free.
Personally I would love Minisforum to have the the i9-13900T option - Uber low idle and very low consumption power - low power consumption option for my linux ESXi systems and higher power consumption option for my windows ESXi systems. Love the USB 4, 2.5Gb and 10Gb ports. I would definitely not say no to an extra NVMe.
P.S. Minisforum could feed the U2 high voltage from the screw mounts and get away with the M.2/U.2 switch entirely.
As far as that X710 issue goes, I recently received 14 new servers at work with a similar issue. While the cards install, there is no way to populate all the SFP ports, as the top port always has some obstacle. This would not work with any SFP module nor any SFP cable. So, we were stuck with just 3 ports actually being usable. Since it is just a test/education lab environment, it didn't really matter that much, but it still brings up that there are issues with any quad SFP port card and low profile. There just isn't enough room.
Rubber bands on SSD heat sinks are generally to accommodate double or single sides SSDs and allow placement to accommodate various SSD layouts. Clips or wires on a 3rd party SSD may short something.
The PC is neat and all, but I NEED to know why the bottom right corner of the talking head segments had a bit of the background pasted over it! Your hand passed behind it at 4:53 and it's driving me crazy wondering what could have been there that had to be edited out in post!
@ServeTheHomeVideo Thanks for the review ! Could you test if ECC memory is properly recognized and used ? If so, this mini server should be a dream machine for building ZFS NAS !
no ecc
I didn't know you were in Arizona. That's fun to find out!
Just moved recently.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo welcome!
I wish they would come up with 1u versions of this sort of thing.
I've longed for the 4 port mini PCs to be in a rack case, instead they generally procuce overpriced mITX firewall appliances.
You'd have a bit more room in a short form factor 1u case too for the PCI slot and power supply.
We will have two pretty cool 1U systems later this month with 2.5GbE and 25GbE. Stay tuned.
Supermicro has some nice 1u reverse mounted shallow boxes, That come with plenty of ports or have 2 or 3 pci-e slots available and some bang to do 5G edge stuff.
The "problem" with 1U is that unless the integrator designed in custom ducting, cooling performance is absolutely abysmal without having 3-4 of those mini jet engine 40mm fans screaming all the time. Even at idle, comparing my i5-7500T which is in both a 1U server and a Lenovo m710q... The 1U consistently runs 10°+ hotter, and loud. The properly designed cooling (and external power supply) does it cooler and silently.
Of course noise isn't usually a concern for rack equipment, but a lot of folks, arguably the majority of people buying such a system, have their homelab in their office or living environment.
Things that I want to see on this awesome piece of Herdware:
- An editional DiplayPort (or MiniDP) on the back.
- 2 Extra /More USB 3.0 (A/B) Ports on the rear
- Something to "lock" the powercable in place
- A Powerbrick with the same Size /Formfactor, that can be attached to the Case. Perhabs with in integrated USB Hub (Some front and some Rear USB 3.0, Cardreader)
- change one of this 10Gbit Ports to one with cooper only
- one onboard USB for things line a USB Stick with unraid an stuff like that
- That U2/NVMe SSD - make it a Jumper or a switch that can only be switched with a tool. Also you may automate this: But a switch under that M.2 Slot Screws
what i really want from this is 2x2x2x2x bifurcation on the PCIe slot, i want a total of 7 M.2 in this machine and while yes 2x10g+2x2.5g is fast networking, a pair of M.2 drives can overwhelm the networking, so 4 of them at 2x is plenty fast enough
Also the ability to install one of the 1.5TB Optane U.2 drive would have been cool, but its 15mm
It doesn’t support bifurcation?
@@hsy541 I think it only supports 4x4 not 2x2x2x2x. I'm sure that if it were a 16x slot it would support 4x4x4x4x
Because of intel cpu's split limit. It's does not support split. But keep watch on this machine, maybe it will support more ssd in near future.
I don't think I've ever seen a system do 2 lane pci-e bifurcation.
And a single NVME drive is faster than 10g networking.
Consider this, 10gb/s = 1250MB/s
PCI-E gen 3 drives can do 3500MB/s
So one of them is plenty enough for speed.. The rest is for redundancy and capacity.
@@jorper2526 Yep, want it for capacity on a Z1 ZFS array
7 drives total, 2 for OS and 5 for storage 4 usable, without 2x bifurcation you'd be limited to 3 drives with 2 usable.
Also, dont forget unless you're getting enterprise drive many of these M.2 drives will slow to under 100MB/s with extended writes, i have a 4TB drive that slows to 40MB/s after writing about 100GB to it, and that threshold lowers as the drive fills, more drives means that threshold is larger, with 3 drives you can meet that threshold at just 200GB and now the array cant even saturate a 1G port hitting only 80MB/s. With 5 drives you're limit is about 400GB and it only slows to ~ 1.3Gbps after that
is a physical issue with the left SFP port at 4:17 upper left corner, it isn't "assembled" correctly
the cage is made of bent metal, it can be buffed out
Adding SAS HBA and installing TrueNAS would be interesting
3:47 Intel NUCs, especially those with vPro give you the option to emulate a display when none is connected. It would be nice if Minisforum could program their BIOS in a similar way.
I've ordered this and waiting for the delivery. Thanks for the review. I was waiting for it.
How's your Minisforum running?
@JamesJosephFinn no complain. It's been a solid stable minipc.
@@omidyt8260 thank you for the insight! I'm new to homelabbing, and am researching using this unit as my first rig. I'm planning to install Debian, then use Incus to spin up LXCs that will house Docker apps / services / websites.
I would really love to see someone do a review on the Lenovo P3 Ultra. It is the newer generation of the P360 Ultra and is just a bit bigger than this here;
13th gen Intel, NVIDIA A2000, ECC ram support and a PCIe slot x8 which I would use for the QNAP card you used in this video and connect to the 4-bay QNAP DAS. I doubt the Lenovo unit gives you the option of nuking your SSD too 😉
Its also 2/3x more expensive almost
It's great what these "mini PC" companies are doing.
It's amazing how much computing power you can pack into such vastly smaller packages than tower desktops these days.
Wonder if they could make some 1u rack fins for it. didn't check the dimensions but it looks like it is about the size of some of those half width switches.
On their webpage they show it as 48mm and Google shows that 1U is 44.45mm. Frustratingly close
Hey, looks great product !
Have you seen any mini pc that is capable of running ECC memory?
Between this and the Qotom system you guys recently reviewed it looks like some companies out there are listening to what the 'lower' end of the market and home labbers are looking for. Still needs some work but this is the first $400+ mini I'd consider buying over building my own or buying second hand. Now if they could stuff 2 of these into a 1u chassis with lower TDP CPU's (maybe AMD?) at a reasonable price... Well I can dream anyway.
15:00 ROFLMAO
I am digging the form factor of this Server/PC
Thank you! Good job!
what's the usecase for this? the cpu is overkill for networking and the networking is overkill for generic homelab use
Question to the experts: Can I connect an eGPU via the USB4 (thunderbolt) so that I can overcome a/ the power supply and 2/ low profile pcie slot? If so, this would be a perfect system for my use case.
$400 eGPU has less than half the performance of a similar priced full GPU card. At that point you might as well build a mini ITX system that will not have those compromises.