CORRECTIONS * Even though the motherboard does support PCIe Gen.4, the 4650G Pro only supports PCIe Gen.3 * Ryzen APUs only support x8x4x4 bifurcation, but not x4x4x4x4 * The memory channel configuration on this board does in fact seem to be 1-2-1-2, like on any regular B550 board * The UEFI/BMC update through the WebUI does work for some people - I encourage you to try it that way before resorting to the UEFI shell method PARTS Motherboard: www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_nkw=gigabyte+mc12-le0&_sacat=0&_odkw=gigabyte+mc12-le0&_osacat=0 Motherboard (alternatives): geni.us/yVjx | geni.us/qDPjw | geni.us/FJon CPU: www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=ryzen+4650G&_sacat=0 CPU Cooler: geni.us/qrJO (Amazon) PSU: geni.us/P24H (Amazon) RAM: geni.us/BFLCBd (Amazon) Case: vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005007209839784.html Case fans: geni.us/iqPfvg2 (Amazon) SSD: geni.us/BlOgci (Amazon) Custom SATA Cables: geni.us/BPbmDd (Amazon) Molex splitter: geni.us/eWgW (Amazon) OTHER PARTS Intel X710-DA2 geni.us/o3Ol6W (Amazon) Intel Arc A310 geni.us/HivxqpJ (Amazon) PCIe 6xSATA card (ASM1166) geni.us/Y3Mi41I (Amazon) LINKS Updating the BIOS and the BMC: notthebe.ee/blog/updating-bios-and-bmc-firmware-gigabyte-mc12-le0/ ASPM script: github.com/notthebee/autoaspm PSU Idle Power Efficiency Spreadsheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TnPx1h-nUKgq3MFzwl-OOIsuX_JSIurIq3JkFZVMUas/edit?usp=sharing
UEFI/BMC update definitely works via BMC WebUI : (1) for BMC update choose file "rom.ima_enc" and "Mode:BMC", (2) for UEFI update choose file "image.RBU" and "Mode:Bios". PS: Board was real cheap in May'24. I bought 2 for 67,98 € incl. shipping.
There are some important things to remember about that board. Even though it is B550, out of box it doesn't support Zen3 CPUs, only Zen2 (CPU or APU - doesn't matter). And with the stock BMC firmware I wasn't able to update BIOS from the BMC at all - it was failing all the time, therefore to use it with newer CPUs you'll need to find Zen2 somewhere for a short while to boot it once and update the BIOS. Also some comments about the part choice. With that board it makes more sense to get Zen 2 or Zen 3 CPU, and not an APU, as they are cheaper and power consumption of the APUs are lower, but not by much. Instead of Intel X710 I'd rather go for Mellanox ConnectX-4 Lx - you can find them for less than 50$ online in quiet a few places (unfortunately youtube auto-deletes the comment if I mention the name of the auction that starts with an "e" and then followed by the "bay" word)
I agree with@@vladimir.smirnov ! The MC12 LE0 is an amazing board, when it's first running... But getting the board to work in the first place can be a pain. In 90% of cases, the board comes with an outdated BIOS, which results in some CPUs not being supported. I spent several days troubleshooting the board because I couldn't understand why the board wouldn't boot with my Ryzen 5 3600, I ended up taking my CPU out off my desktop (Ryzen 5 3600X) which booted fine, after which I had to install Windows to update the bios and then reinsert the 3600.... BMC and BIOS updates via the WebUI did not work on 6 out of the 10 motherboards I had ordered. A great board once it's up and running, but can be horrible to get working.
@@vladimir.smirnov Ryzen APUs draw anywhere between 5 to 20W less than non-APUs for similar performance: www.computerbase.de/forum/attachments/renoir-vs-matisse-idle-png.972502/
This is another EXCELLENT video Wolfgang! Even though I'm already set with my existing (crazy, convoluted and not yet actually doing anything useful) homelab, this *did* give me pause to think about using at least elements of this build to upgrade/update my existing servers - and the CPU recommendation is particularly useful and appreciated. Keep up the good work, and I *greatly* look forward to the upcoming SW homelab video!
0:40 No 3D printer needed? On the one hand, this is good because I don't have a 3D printer yet, but on the other hand, I no longer have an excuse why I absolutely need a 3D printer. 😉
@@WuchaGot2 Price is less of a problem. It's just that people around me often don't understand why I'm buying this or that. On the other hand, the same people will buy a drone, fly it three times and never touch it again.
Wow, it actually is a perfect build! I've seen so many other videos that always have a "gotcha", but not this build. Slots, ECC, easy access to HDDs. I've already ordered some of the parts.
The lack of 2.5Gb LAN is a bit of a shame. I suppose you could pair the two gigabit ports, but if you want one PCIe slot for NVMe and one for a HBA/SATA adapter, you can't also add 2.5Gb LAN. Well, USB 3 maybe...
@@JeronimoStilton14 generally yes, but some people still prefer it because of A) the old ZFS-related fearmongering that went around for a while, B) peace of mind, even knowing it *probably* won't ever matter, or C) because if you *can*, without compromising other capabilities, why not? It's a cool feature and you feel pro as heck for having it. Also theoretically D) because they're actually doing stuff that might rely on it and using it for business-critical purposes, but that's...rare.
@@kuro68000 assuming you're putting the HBA/SATA controller in the x4 slot and a quad NVME carrier (or some kind of bifurcation riser?) in the x16, just plug an M.2 NIC (or M.2 to PCIe adapter and then a PCIe NIC) to one of the slots on the carrier board. Boom, NIC+SATA+three NVME drives (at full x4 lanes). It still costs you one of your NVME drives, but that's just the reality of finite PCIe lanes. Sure, the cable-management is probably hell, but that's a tale old as time. Incidentally, while it doesn't matter for this motherboard *or* CPU, there is actually one 10g PCIe4.0x1 NIC in existence, (the OWCPCIE10GB, easily located via Google), which is a lot pricier than used X710-DA2s, but comes in **real** handy for all the boards out there with a 4.0x1 slot. Irritatingly, it is copper-only; there's no SFP+ version.
@ my issue is generally eith c) as it seems like it does tend to only appear on boards that are extra costly or don’t have the rest of the features most are looking for in a nas. I care more about hardware encoding, c states, number of sata ports, and Ethernet speed. Ecc can’t cost me any of that or it just seems useless
Just to show some appreciation for your work. As a fellow European, it's interesting to see what others do to keep power consumption down. Also, I'm hoping you'll do a homelab showcase again. Eager to show mine. Keep it up!
I went with the Jonsbo N4 for my Nas, no regrets. The cooling is adequate I can feel the air flow throughout the bays (make sure to connect the fan to the hot pluggable board). Cabling wise was pretty comfortable too, as the case has slots on both sides which you can route the cables to the motherboard. the only thing was the 24pin motherboard cable was a bit short but still managed to connect it without stretching it. Overall excellent case.
Yes! Finally someone is covering the Sagittarius case, which is perfect for a 8 bay home NAS. I feel like there is very 8 bay matx cases out there, Sure there is the Jonsbo N3 but that could only fit a miniATX or 6+2 N4 or the more expensive 12 Bay N5. Thank you for covering this.
i turned it off the second i saw the idiotic mother board choice. At least it has ECC, but he's talking bifurcation for what? nvme 4 port cards? He doesn't think about pcielanes or ports? cause no 10g for a server, that's a pcie 4.0 x2 port already, the m.2 card will need a x16 port, or 8 if you wanna be stingy. saying this is no compromise is hilarious.
Got this in my NAS for ~4 months now with 5600G. Yeah, I miss ECC, but couldn´t get 5650G for reasonable price. 5600G for 40€ with bent pins I fixed, MB for 50€ and 15€ shipping, 32GB (ECC) RAM for ~20€ and 360€ for 3x 12TB HGST DC 520 HDD´s. Truenas is happy, no spindown, 3x 2,5" SATA SSDs and idle is around 38-44W with Pihole, HAOS and Jellyfin running. It is quirky, but STH forum helped a lot and F15 BIOS fixed most of the issues with iGPUs. Love it
@@christianbottger493 The consumer Ryzen APUs don't support ECC RAM, but the Ryzen Pro APUs (like the one in this video) do. You could also use a normal Ryzen desktop CPU (not APU) as those also support ECC and then use a GPU like an A380 for transcoding (the A380 is $120, runs off just PCI-e power, and has AV1 encode support, so it's probably the best option at the moment).
@AlexanderPavel all desktop ryzens have ECC support? Unbuffered I guess? (unbuffered ECC RAM is more difficult to find (used) and more expensive than buffered ECC used e.g. with Xeons)
Thanks for the shoutout! Loved the video. Gigabyte really loves their EFI shell BIOS updates. I have a Q670 Intel motherboard which uses it too. It's not the end of the world, but it's annoying when you're looking at a dozen other boards with normal BIOS updates... haha Been running as my offsite backup for months now with no issues and I still highly recommend it. If you need more room for CPU cooling or just want more room in the case in general, get an SFX PSU to get more height. You can even go as far as using a FlexATX 1U PSU by using a ATX -> SFX -> FlexATX adapter. If you can find a FlexATX PSU which isn't loud enough to make you crazy. :D SFX PSUs should also have pretty good cable length for the size of the case, but a FlexATX might need some cable extensions depending on the model. Just something to factor into the build, but you'll gain quite a bit of hight for cooling.
I love your hardware videos! I Would appriciate if you would do more software videos in the same quality, because a big part after you finished your server build is: how to set it up properly? Because I did some mistakes in the beginning like not using another subnet (users of other networks can not reach my server, if the IP adress is already in use in their network), I still got no domains, because the video you made about it, was not working in UnRaid, how to share data in a secure way with friends and family (vpn works quite well for family members, but not for friends) and there are many other topics to cover. Thank you very much for your content and keep it up Wolfgang!
Hey poopyhead, when's the SW video coming out????? Ahaha jk, awesome content! Keep up the awesome work and thank you so much for sharing all this knowledge! ❤
I had one of these, but I found it terrible for swapping drives. My 10 bay Lian Li is only ITX but much nicer to work with. It wouldn't have hurt to scale it up a bit for uATX, oh well.
This is great. You mentioned at around 10 min that you put significant research into the case search. You mentioned a few Mini ITX cases. Do you happen to have a list of cases you considered on a blog or one of the forums? I am looking for a midsized tower case that supports ATX motherboards but has a similar ability to load 6-8 drives from the front that this Sagittarius case has. I don’t need actual “HOT”swap, I am just looking for a backplane. Generally the Sagittarius looks great, but I prefer to have a slightly larger case for additional motherboard flexibility and convenience when building the system.
The Jonsbo N5 might be a good option, maybe a bit expensive, it is the same kind of dual chamber layout but with full ATX support and a 12 drives bay. Looking at some reviews it seems to have less issues than the smaller N4.
Thanks for the video Wolfgang! Regarding the BIOS update over BMC I would like to add to the other users comment that it is best practice to start with a minimum setup! And it is adamant that the RAM sticks are installed in the correct slots. With only one RAM stick, it needs to be installed in DIMM A1 (Not A0!) in order for anything to work. A1 is the second closest to the CPU socket. I too had to update the BMC SW first, and I needed only one try. After that the BMC is successfully flashed, it may be necessary to switch the PSU off and let the BMC restart, in order to take effect. After that, flashing of the BIOS works, however it may present difficulties, that you will still be shown the old BIOS version. This was the case, when I had the RAM stick in DIMM A0.
Just want to point out that the bios update is done 100% via the BMC. The EFI shell comment is actually wrong. What is needed is to first do the BMC update. Reboot, check if your really on the new BMC. If not on the new BMC, flash again, reboot. Now your 100% on the new BMC. Now do the Bios update via the BMC, reboot, check? No (like 100% change it does not take on the first try), do again, reboot, ... and bingo. Second time the new bios is correctly there. Did 3 board like this to the latest BMC and F14. The BMC update can take on the first try, but the bios update tends to always need a second try. I learned this after doing the first board update. I wonder if there are two bios partitions and when you flash the first time, your not flashings the primary but a backup bios rom??? Not sure, but the above trick works 100% of the time, and done it on 3 board, so that is a fairly big sample size.
I can confirm, did BMC (rom.ima_enc) 1st worked fine, did bios (image.RBU). Checked BMC stated F06 BIOS. Did 'Hard Reset' from BMC power control, came back straight away as F18 bios. Recognised 5750G in BIOS system inventory.
@@Bleppfrei have you got a CPU in? Does it report one (even wrong type) in the BMC? When you did the firmware update from BMC did you use the image.rbu (extract from zip?) Did you select bios from the dropdown on the firmware update page? Did it report the flash completed? Did you do a 'Hard Reset' from the BMC power management page?
Just adding my own experience. I had trouble getting the board to get any signal out at all (the management console remote desktop said " no signal") I downloaded the latest firmware and bios files. Then I updated the BMC update using the rom.ima_enc file from the firmware update. This worked succesfully. Once this was done I could update the bios using the image.RBU file and selecting BIOS as update. This worked after TWO tries. Not the first try. Once this was done I got uefi console etc. Still no VGA output, but that is not that important for me and probably a bios setting.
A few days later... I did all the steps like @barefont and @boranblok sayd several times but nothing happened but nothing changed! What worked for me: 1. flashing the cmos with a jumper 2. tried again (2 times...) 3. finally worked. In the end i don't know if the cmos flashing did the trick, but now I'm on F18 as well 🎉
Nice setup, I love the integrated BMC. For my homelab server, I usually recycle the CPU/mobo/RAM when I upgrade my workstation, so small form factor is not an option for me. If you are in my same situation, I highly recommend the Fractal Design Meshify 2 case: it's a bit pricey but it looks very good and classy, it has amazing airflow with 9x140mm fan mount points (of course you don't need to fill them all) and has a movable panel inside that you can flip to enable for mounting of up to 8 3.5" HDDs. (11 if you use the included additional HDD cage but in that case you'll lose one bottom fan mountpoint and you'll need a shorter PSU) and 2 SATA SSD (4 if you use double sided tape to stack them)
If you're less worried about case space or size, the Node 804 is probably the best case for most people who have a Micro ATX board and need eight 3.5" drive bays. It also takes two 2.5" SSDs and has two more spots for 2.5" or 3.5" drives in the motherboard side of the case. It's reasonably priced, readily available, and is high quality.
The case used in the video, is ~$60, with ~$120 shipping crazy, I like its size and method for mounting drives but at that price I would just go with your suggestion here.
@@christianbottger493the case in the video is $60 + $125 for shipping to the US. The Node 804 is temporarily on backorder at a lot of the online retailers, but still averages around $130-$150 shipped depending on where you get it from.
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@@robertwebb7152 yesterday I ordered it for 125€ including shipping to Germany, just had to look around for a few minutes for various sellers (and there is a 10€ coupon running this week)
www.piospartslap.de/Gigabyte-Mainboard-MC12-LE0-Re10-AMD-B550-AM4-Ryzen-5000-4000-3000-Server-Board-NEU-NEW I know at least one person who did a price offer for 70€ and the seller accepted. You didn't heart his from me though (:
Wow. It's like you were watching me last night. I was actually looking at that reddit thread and looked for that case. That case unfortunately is not really an option in the US. The price is not bad at like $140 but shipping costs more than the case at like $180. I did find a different one that looked good which I will edit this one I look through my browser history to find. Edit: the one that I found is one of the ones he mentioned (the one with 8 vertically mounted drives) that is limited to a flex PSU.
Server part deals is a good place to get those refurbished drives. They're on Amazon / eBay / their own website. Genuinely I've had nothing but good luck with everything I got from them
The "Problem" are the shipping costs, at least to Germany. Adds another 30€ to the price of the drives. Makes it sometimes a less great Deal. I was about to buy some drives, but for 25€ more i can get it Brand New with full warranty, cos of the shipping. Just keep this in mind.
I've heard excellent things about them and they take care of you if you get a bad drive from them. I went with a different distributor for my NAS and it took months (with no returned communication) to get my drives.
@Dr_De4th makes sense about the shipping since I believe it's a US distributor. You definitely need to look into local hdd refurbishers in your area for a more cheaper option
I never comment on any videos, but always make time to watch yours as I really enjoy them and learn something from them! So just wanted to say thanks and big love ❤
This is a great motherboard, I've used mine for around a year as a workstation with a 5800x. Having BMC isn't great for workstation usage, but for server usage it is love
As Wolfgang said, the cheapest way is still to repurpose an older pc with reasonable amount of HDD space. The hardware in that case is definitely under 100 EUR. Even if you have double the power consumption, say 50 W it takes many many years to make up the difference just from the electricity alone. If building a new rig i would definitely consider a full tower Fractal case or the 804.
Would love to see a tower build with 24 bays for HDD like a QNAP, but home made so its not sounding like an AIRPLANE so I can actually have it in my home.
For fan control based on HDD temp, just write to a temp file somewhere with the average or highest HDD temp every 1 minutes. Then point to this file in the pwmconfig config file for the relevant fans. Easy.
AFAIK the temperature sensors are reachable from the OS (at least the HDD ones), but the PWM controllers aren’t. Those are controlled by the BMC, not the motherboard itself.
@@WolfgangsChannel Got it, I was referring to the pwm controllers when I said sensors, apologies. Yes I would expect the HDD temp to be readings reachable from the OS as this is a SMART attribute value, passed from the HDD through the SATA controller to the OS. Okay, but I had this issue in the past. Check out OpenFanController project on github by SasaKaranovic. They also sell the hardware for it in their Web shop.
I'm using the same case for about 4 month now. Absolutely great case/box for 50 usd on taobao. Stuffed it with an asrock b550m pro4 matx board, 5600g and 32gb ram, added ngff-sata adapter, low profile cooler, sfp+ card and put in 8 drives, solid nas. The cons is that dust filters double sided tape is bad, changed it for a good one. Better find x570m pro4 mobo, because it has 8 sata ports and you can add 2 more with adapter for a cache ssds or smth.
This is basically my home server that I built last month. Same case, similar PSU, B450 motherboard (without the IPMI/BMC capabilities though), and a similar generation CPU (3900X running TDP-down in my case, because that's what I had spare). I'm using an HBA, passing that through to the VM running TrueNAS Core for my storage. Base OS of Proxmox and things generally work well! ... other than that TrueNAS VM, which somehow has a fifth of the performance of the old dedicated NAS that was running a C2750. Still not sure what is going on there. Still, I rather like the case and think it is a bit of a sleeper for home server setups. I just wish shipping wasn't such a nightmare of a price (especially getting it to here in Norway)!
@@rickysargulesh1053 Running it in a VM is generally fine if you can do PCIe passthrough of a SAS controller so ZFS has native access to the drives. But nobody should be running Core for a new build in 2024 anyway, it's going to be deprecated soon.
Hi @aetherspoon would you mind sharing how much your system draws idle (with the info of hoe many drives you passed through to trueNAS)? I am running proxmox and a truenas vm as well and am struggling to make it more efficient (to the point where i think it is impossible for me to reach better numbers). Thank you so much in advance!
@@tw38203 Idle (with the drives spun up, mind you) is around 90-100W. Five hard drives (along with two SSDs, but those aren't on TrueNAS) and a LSi HBA passed through. I can't get the idle power down any lower thanks to being locked to C2 power states (likely due to that HBA). :(
@aetherspoon (yt doing weird stuff with my tags here, srry) Thank you very much! Setup wise we are very similar! I've got four hdds and two ssds on my LSI HBA 9217-8i and it is at idle around 80 W reaching C3. I'll check if the HBA is the culprit later on today.
Eyy, i wrtote a comment about this board a few videos back, u finally did it :D these boards are just absuredly cheap for what they offer its insane lol
Its always too late, when an influencer posts some cool gear. Luckily for me, i bought 6 of these boards over a year ago for 35 € incl. the 1 he cooler (cannot recommend this cooler). Oh, and it wont draw only 12-15W idle, the apus draw at least 17W, the normal chiplet ryzens at least 19-20W.
@@marcogenovesi8570 Im talking about the whole system, mainboard, cpu at a booted OS on NVMe/SATA and 1 ram stick installed, connected by bmc html5 console. My 5600X with this board, 1 32GB ECC stick and a 128gb sata ssd is around 20W idle on a current gentoo 6.12 kernel, after powertop autotune.
Wow! Awesome video! I'm thinking on building a server like this for off-site backup (mom's house 😅) and I'll definitely use this video for some inspiration. Thank you for the great content, poopyhead!
Why did you release the video after black friday D: I used the event to buy my new home server / NAS and now I think I made all the wrong decisions hahahahah Really great content. Keep going as you are a trully reference!!!
I’ve been having issues with my first gen ryzen nas going into a hung state for a year and never thought it could be a cstate issue. Thanks for including that in your video.
Hey Wolfgang, I need some help. At the time of writing this, of all the eBay listings for this particular MB, 3 are from Germany and don’t offer shipping to the United States, the rest are from China going for $458+. You said in the video that just about any AM4 board should do. Do you happen to have any recommendations? I’d prefer something with ample SATA ports and 10gig networking to avoid the need for HBAs or extra PCIe cards if that’s even possible, but I’m more concerned with power efficiency more than anything. I’m pretty new to NAS builds, so help from you or anyone else would be much appreciated! Have a nice day!
Looking to replace my old 8-bay Synology considering options between turnkey and BYO. I've been trying Unraid on an old Dell workstation, and you've convinced me to go BYO! It'll be my first PC build in 20 years. Looking forward to the software video. I suggest splitting it into different videos for OS options (bare metal vs virtualized), file systems & storage arrays, security & remote access, VMs & CTs & Dockers, backup & restore, etc. Thanks a ton! 😊
Topic suggestion: power efficient 10Gbs SFP network cards and switches Still today it is hard to find reliable, power efficient alternatives to >1Gbps speeds: - 2.5Gbe seems to be a clusterfuck with the i255/i226 NICs making trouble and VLAN-capable switches more expensive than 10Gbps alternatives - Many 10Gbps cards either draw too much power and / or prevent the system from entering deeper C-levels
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the PSU fan is supposed to suck in air, not blow it out. Nevertheless, it might be a good solution to get rid of a small CPU fan.
Will definitely check out this case. I've been wanting to update my NAS with something that has full PCI card slots. Looks to have pretty good airflow. I've always been concerned that the Jonsbo N4 is a little too stuffy if I load up all the bays.
6:10 It sounds like you got the memory channel thing backwards. Most boards group the channels together, so that each channel is split across a pair of adjacent slots. You want your sticks to be on *separate* channels though, so on most boards that means the sticks should not be in adjacent slots. If this board recommends putting the sticks in the first and second slot, that means those two slots are in alternating channels, not "first first, second second".
His wording is ambiguous - It could be first group second group or it could be first pair of slots second pair of slots. Regardless, I think the got the point across fine
You’re right - I got confused by the colors and Gigabyte’s manual. Just confirmed with other motherboard owners that the channels work the same as any other AM4 board and added a correction to the pinned comment.
any raid runs (and most importantly array rebuilds) like hot garbage with SMR drives, not just ZFS but also linux mdadm raid, hardware raid cards or Windows Storage Spaces (windows software raid)
I appreciate the research you’ve put in your channel. I’ve had retire my HP Z420 w/ Samsung 851 Pro NVME and 32 Gb of ECC memory due to Windows 11. Replaced it with HP Z4G4 workstation with the same specs except PCIE gen 4 and Windows 11 compatible. Added HP branded LSI 2917 i4e4 RAID controller to the Z420 and. 6 refurbished data center drives. Both systems, off lease, $1200 USD.
Fantastic video! Just finished my N100-build in the Jonsbo N4, thanks to your vast knowledge! But I do have an 4650G Pro in my Deskmini currently. Maybe it was made for greater things than TH-cam, and that Gigabyte-board is quite a steal considering IMPI. Curse you for tempting me once more :D
@@e79905 not standalone, but there are some ITX boards with the N100 made by Asus and Asrock. I used Asrocks N100M mATX-version, since it has more expansion Also some interesting boards on Aliexpress with N100s, never tried one though
11:59 ths pcie sata its the worst option. This controller cannot handle multiple drives at once in good speed. Better option is LSI 9300 8i (or higher version, eg. 9400 etc).
I've been using it for years with no issues, both HDDs and SSDs. There are similar SATA controllers that run at PCIe x1 speeds though, those will definitely be slower. I agree that an HBA flashed with IT mode is probably a safer bet - though those tend to be power hogs.
it is using an ASM1166 chipset so if it is installed on a pcie 3.0 slot it splits 2x pcie lanes of bandwith over 6 drives. you have 2 GB/s divided by six so in worst case each drive gets 340 MB/s. this is more than mechanical drives can actually do, and you shouldn't be using Sata SSDs anyway when you can get nvme. The biggest difference vs the LSI cards is that this only needs a few watts of power vs 10-15w for a LSI controller. For sata drives the 9300 is massive overkill (it's 12Gbit SAS which is not usable by Sata drives) and even more so the 9400.
NVMe drives have a different problem - most consumer chipsets have a limited number of PCIe lanes and lack bifurcation support. OCULink ports are still reserved to HEDT/server boards AFAIK. SATA drives will work fine for most people, and every PCIe slot can become 8 SATA slots in a pinch.
Awesome! I have build something similar, used a NZXT H1 with a 6700xt and a 5600x cpu, and attached a home made nas enclosure with a 4 bay 3.5 hdd using 2, 2 bay hdd holders from unused pc cases, attached a 140mm fan and done! Home server for documents, family jellyfin stream, and remote cloud gaming! Can play and access everything on my server no matter where i am in the world!
@@diegomanas84 Not likely haha... I'm thinking of the Asrock B550M Pro 4, it is not server-grade but has similar inputs, supports RAID 0, 1, 10, has 6 inputs for SATA and with a nanokvm you can diagnose it online.
Good video! Some years ago I wanted to build a NAS, but I didn't have the budget. Now I don't need it. My internet connection is so fast, downloading things is not a problem anymore. I don't need to store that much stuff. I have a raspberry pi 4 with an 240GB SSD and a same size pendrive connected to it. 😊
I have a similar build inside a Cooler Master N200. I had to be a bit creative with installing the drivers, 5 SSD and 2 HDD. Great efficiency on the Ryzen CPU and more than enough power for my use.
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This seems like the perfect NAS case for an IKEA Kallax shelf :)
Hi @WolfgangsChannel, thanks for bringing this board back to my attention. You made some mistakes in the video, but you corrected them already in previous comments (e.g. bios update can be done via BMC, but as described in some forum entries, it is very hard to get it done, but the bios update works with a non-supported CPU. So you can update via the BMC to latest version (v18 at time of this comment) with an unsupported CPU. I recommend to only put one DIMM into the A1 slot). In general the board is very picky, some issues prevent it from starting (e.g. putting a 4xNVMe PCIe adapter into the x16 slot and attempt to start with bifurcation set wrongly). But if the board finally is configured as required, it works very stable. Using an APU makes it a bit more complicated additionally. It also seems that the power regulators are not made for high power performance CPUs and needs lots of cooling then. Can you recommend a proper Gen3 10G network card, to be used in the PCIe x4 slot? Thanks and Regards, //R.
There are a few AQC-100 based SFP+ adapters (e.g. www.trendnet.com/products/10g-sfp-pcie-adapter/10-gigabit-pcie-sfp-network-adapter-TEG-10GECSFP-v3 ) which support PCIe 3.0
Thanks for this awesome build! Not sure if I ever get to build something like this in the near future, but it sure is a nice inspiration. Looking forward to when the software video comes out :)
О, дааааа!!! Вольфганг, ты лучший! Спасибо за отличный ролик. Корпус не без недостатков, но это лучшее решение, после Jonsbo-N1. Не смотря на его стоимость и цену доставки, буду брать.
A nice video but I think it's popularity drove up the prices of the components. The motherboard is now 250€ and the case has a shipping charge of 70€ to ship to Europe!! Just those two components make it close to the same price as an off the shelf NAS.
I just ordered a variation of this setup. Super excited to build it. Unfortunately the motherboard cannot be found under 140 euros anymore, so I went for a cheaper non-server mATX board with similar functionality bar the BMC. I also managed to snag the CPU for 70 dollars and I got a used set of ecc memory 4x16gb for ~90 euros. Besides those, I got all the same parts and my total cost is 540 euros. I also went yolo on some refurbished HDDs on amazon. I would normally not go for used hdd, but they are refurbished (and tested) seagate exos and they were like 650 euros for 4x14TB which is an absolute steal. Quite spectacular to get such a powerful setup with so much storage for around 1200 euros in total. Thanks a lot for the inspiration, I was thinking of upgrading my rpi+usb hdd setup for quite a while, but I never liked the limitations of pre-made NAS setups, and I was scared of building a system that is too power hungry, but this is great. Looking forward to setting it all up in the coming weeks.
Thank you so much for this updated video. I've been sitting on a 4650G CPU in doubt what to do with it: use an expensive mini ITX board or a bigger micro ATX one. Six minutes into the video I paused to instantly purchase that Gigabyte motherboard. Keep up the good stuff, love your channel and quality content and wish you happy holidays even though I'm a bit early.
This is amazing! I've recently built a home server/NAS and your videos have been a great source of information for me. That being said... you're a poopyhead ;)
That reminds me when I built my first NAS/Home Server. But I went with the more expensive Asrock Rack (and ECC Unbuffered Memory was also way more Expensive..) But... I made the mistake of using a non-pro Zen 3 CPU and only noticed a few months back, that while my System Posts without any issues, ECC isn't really enabled/working as intended.
Yay new Wolfgang Video. Recently got a hold of a ton of retired mini PCs. They were basically brand new but the company wanted everyone to have laptops. 3 10500, 1 12500T, 2 13500T, 1 14500T and a 4650G Pro. I think im going to use the 4650G in my htpc and deciding if i should use the 12500T or the 13500T in the nas server
would love to see someone make a case that's this idea, but cut the cube in half and put the halves side by side so it's wide and flat to fit in the gap between desk and bookshelves
Really nice build. It’s what I considered before deciding to go down the used Xeon world for guaranteed ECC support (since some sources seemed to suggest ECC was not really guaranteed and more as a result of mobo manufacturer support). After doing that and comparing power consumption of many of your builds I’ve come to realise that almost any bare mobo/cpu setup and gold psu with the correct eco settings will draw 15W at idle. Even 37W at idle with those hard drives is not that impressive in the consumer pc parts world. Basically as long as you don’t get server grade hard drives and ultra old CPUs you are sweet. Thanks again for all the research you provide.
I found that Gigabyte board for cheap just days before your video, and ordered it after watching, only for the vendor to cancel on me just yesterday because their vendor doubled the price. Wish I'd pulled the trigger sooner and bought it as soon as it was available
CORRECTIONS
* Even though the motherboard does support PCIe Gen.4, the 4650G Pro only supports PCIe Gen.3
* Ryzen APUs only support x8x4x4 bifurcation, but not x4x4x4x4
* The memory channel configuration on this board does in fact seem to be 1-2-1-2, like on any regular B550 board
* The UEFI/BMC update through the WebUI does work for some people - I encourage you to try it that way before resorting to the UEFI shell method
PARTS
Motherboard: www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_nkw=gigabyte+mc12-le0&_sacat=0&_odkw=gigabyte+mc12-le0&_osacat=0
Motherboard (alternatives): geni.us/yVjx | geni.us/qDPjw | geni.us/FJon
CPU: www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=ryzen+4650G&_sacat=0
CPU Cooler: geni.us/qrJO (Amazon)
PSU: geni.us/P24H (Amazon)
RAM: geni.us/BFLCBd (Amazon)
Case: vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005007209839784.html
Case fans: geni.us/iqPfvg2 (Amazon)
SSD: geni.us/BlOgci (Amazon)
Custom SATA Cables: geni.us/BPbmDd (Amazon)
Molex splitter: geni.us/eWgW (Amazon)
OTHER PARTS
Intel X710-DA2 geni.us/o3Ol6W (Amazon)
Intel Arc A310 geni.us/HivxqpJ (Amazon)
PCIe 6xSATA card (ASM1166) geni.us/Y3Mi41I (Amazon)
LINKS
Updating the BIOS and the BMC: notthebe.ee/blog/updating-bios-and-bmc-firmware-gigabyte-mc12-le0/
ASPM script: github.com/notthebee/autoaspm
PSU Idle Power Efficiency Spreadsheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TnPx1h-nUKgq3MFzwl-OOIsuX_JSIurIq3JkFZVMUas/edit?usp=sharing
Where's that PCIe-SATA -card?
UEFI/BMC update definitely works via BMC WebUI : (1) for BMC update choose file "rom.ima_enc" and "Mode:BMC", (2) for UEFI update choose file "image.RBU" and "Mode:Bios".
PS: Board was real cheap in May'24. I bought 2 for 67,98 € incl. shipping.
There are some important things to remember about that board. Even though it is B550, out of box it doesn't support Zen3 CPUs, only Zen2 (CPU or APU - doesn't matter).
And with the stock BMC firmware I wasn't able to update BIOS from the BMC at all - it was failing all the time, therefore to use it with newer CPUs you'll need to find Zen2 somewhere for a short while to boot it once and update the BIOS.
Also some comments about the part choice. With that board it makes more sense to get Zen 2 or Zen 3 CPU, and not an APU, as they are cheaper and power consumption of the APUs are lower, but not by much.
Instead of Intel X710 I'd rather go for Mellanox ConnectX-4 Lx - you can find them for less than 50$ online in quiet a few places (unfortunately youtube auto-deletes the comment if I mention the name of the auction that starts with an "e" and then followed by the "bay" word)
I agree with@@vladimir.smirnov !
The MC12 LE0 is an amazing board, when it's first running...
But getting the board to work in the first place can be a pain. In 90% of cases, the board comes with an outdated BIOS, which results in some CPUs not being supported. I spent several days troubleshooting the board because I couldn't understand why the board wouldn't boot with my Ryzen 5 3600, I ended up taking my CPU out off my desktop (Ryzen 5 3600X) which booted fine, after which I had to install Windows to update the bios and then reinsert the 3600.... BMC and BIOS updates via the WebUI did not work on 6 out of the 10 motherboards I had ordered.
A great board once it's up and running, but can be horrible to get working.
@@vladimir.smirnov Ryzen APUs draw anywhere between 5 to 20W less than non-APUs for similar performance: www.computerbase.de/forum/attachments/renoir-vs-matisse-idle-png.972502/
You had me at €500 but then looked at motherboards and realised they are selling for £300
This is another EXCELLENT video Wolfgang! Even though I'm already set with my existing (crazy, convoluted and not yet actually doing anything useful) homelab, this *did* give me pause to think about using at least elements of this build to upgrade/update my existing servers - and the CPU recommendation is particularly useful and appreciated.
Keep up the good work, and I *greatly* look forward to the upcoming SW homelab video!
0:40 No 3D printer needed? On the one hand, this is good because I don't have a 3D printer yet, but on the other hand, I no longer have an excuse why I absolutely need a 3D printer. 😉
To be honest, with as cheap as this server is it saves a lot of money, enough to pick up a $100-$200 3d printer. 😉
@@WuchaGot2 Price is less of a problem. It's just that people around me often don't understand why I'm buying this or that. On the other hand, the same people will buy a drone, fly it three times and never touch it again.
Bought a secondhand black case based on your video, now there are 2 people being happy.
Wow, it actually is a perfect build! I've seen so many other videos that always have a "gotcha", but not this build. Slots, ECC, easy access to HDDs. I've already ordered some of the parts.
Isn’t ecc completely irrelevant in a homelab setting though
The lack of 2.5Gb LAN is a bit of a shame. I suppose you could pair the two gigabit ports, but if you want one PCIe slot for NVMe and one for a HBA/SATA adapter, you can't also add 2.5Gb LAN. Well, USB 3 maybe...
@@JeronimoStilton14 generally yes, but some people still prefer it because of A) the old ZFS-related fearmongering that went around for a while, B) peace of mind, even knowing it *probably* won't ever matter, or C) because if you *can*, without compromising other capabilities, why not? It's a cool feature and you feel pro as heck for having it.
Also theoretically D) because they're actually doing stuff that might rely on it and using it for business-critical purposes, but that's...rare.
@@kuro68000 assuming you're putting the HBA/SATA controller in the x4 slot and a quad NVME carrier (or some kind of bifurcation riser?) in the x16, just plug an M.2 NIC (or M.2 to PCIe adapter and then a PCIe NIC) to one of the slots on the carrier board. Boom, NIC+SATA+three NVME drives (at full x4 lanes). It still costs you one of your NVME drives, but that's just the reality of finite PCIe lanes.
Sure, the cable-management is probably hell, but that's a tale old as time.
Incidentally, while it doesn't matter for this motherboard *or* CPU, there is actually one 10g PCIe4.0x1 NIC in existence, (the OWCPCIE10GB, easily located via Google), which is a lot pricier than used X710-DA2s, but comes in **real** handy for all the boards out there with a 4.0x1 slot. Irritatingly, it is copper-only; there's no SFP+ version.
@ my issue is generally eith c) as it seems like it does tend to only appear on boards that are extra costly or don’t have the rest of the features most are looking for in a nas.
I care more about hardware encoding, c states, number of sata ports, and Ethernet speed. Ecc can’t cost me any of that or it just seems useless
Just to show some appreciation for your work. As a fellow European, it's interesting to see what others do to keep power consumption down.
Also, I'm hoping you'll do a homelab showcase again. Eager to show mine.
Keep it up!
Those gigabyte boards are amazing. I got one for 40€ this summer and I absolutely love it
I went with the Jonsbo N4 for my Nas, no regrets. The cooling is adequate I can feel the air flow throughout the bays (make sure to connect the fan to the hot pluggable board). Cabling wise was pretty comfortable too, as the case has slots on both sides which you can route the cables to the motherboard. the only thing was the 24pin motherboard cable was a bit short but still managed to connect it without stretching it. Overall excellent case.
Yes! Finally someone is covering the Sagittarius case, which is perfect for a 8 bay home NAS. I feel like there is very 8 bay matx cases out there, Sure there is the Jonsbo N3 but that could only fit a miniATX or 6+2 N4 or the more expensive 12 Bay N5. Thank you for covering this.
There are a few out there... the Silverstone ds380 (itx), u-nas nsc810A, fractal node 804, and sliger cx3702 come to mind.
One of the best content on TH-cam regarding NAS, if not the best. Zero bullshit and 100% usefull information. Thanks for your work man.
i turned it off the second i saw the idiotic mother board choice. At least it has ECC, but he's talking bifurcation for what? nvme 4 port cards? He doesn't think about pcielanes or ports? cause no 10g for a server, that's a pcie 4.0 x2 port already, the m.2 card will need a x16 port, or 8 if you wanna be stingy.
saying this is no compromise is hilarious.
Got this in my NAS for ~4 months now with 5600G. Yeah, I miss ECC, but couldn´t get 5650G for reasonable price. 5600G for 40€ with bent pins I fixed, MB for 50€ and 15€ shipping, 32GB (ECC) RAM for ~20€ and 360€ for 3x 12TB HGST DC 520 HDD´s.
Truenas is happy, no spindown, 3x 2,5" SATA SSDs and idle is around 38-44W with Pihole, HAOS and Jellyfin running.
It is quirky, but STH forum helped a lot and F15 BIOS fixed most of the issues with iGPUs. Love it
@@Fr4kTh1s where did you get those prices for ECC unbuffered RAM? Ryzen 5600G does not make use of ECC, does it? Thst would need a 5650G?
@@christianbottger493 The consumer Ryzen APUs don't support ECC RAM, but the Ryzen Pro APUs (like the one in this video) do. You could also use a normal Ryzen desktop CPU (not APU) as those also support ECC and then use a GPU like an A380 for transcoding (the A380 is $120, runs off just PCI-e power, and has AV1 encode support, so it's probably the best option at the moment).
@AlexanderPavel all desktop ryzens have ECC support? Unbuffered I guess? (unbuffered ECC RAM is more difficult to find (used) and more expensive than buffered ECC used e.g. with Xeons)
@@christianbottger493i believe ECC is supported only by Ryzen PROs
Babe wake up, Wolfgang posted 🗣️🗣️‼️
😂😂😂
Said no one ever... to a human.
Good Lord, I hate this meme comment. Every video everywhere has this comment.
@@duntuk its a joke ^_^
@@37Kilo2 god forbid someone uses a meme you dislike
Thanks for the shoutout! Loved the video. Gigabyte really loves their EFI shell BIOS updates. I have a Q670 Intel motherboard which uses it too. It's not the end of the world, but it's annoying when you're looking at a dozen other boards with normal BIOS updates... haha
Been running as my offsite backup for months now with no issues and I still highly recommend it. If you need more room for CPU cooling or just want more room in the case in general, get an SFX PSU to get more height. You can even go as far as using a FlexATX 1U PSU by using a ATX -> SFX -> FlexATX adapter. If you can find a FlexATX PSU which isn't loud enough to make you crazy. :D
SFX PSUs should also have pretty good cable length for the size of the case, but a FlexATX might need some cable extensions depending on the model. Just something to factor into the build, but you'll gain quite a bit of hight for cooling.
I love your hardware videos! I Would appriciate if you would do more software videos in the same quality, because a big part after you finished your server build is: how to set it up properly? Because I did some mistakes in the beginning like not using another subnet (users of other networks can not reach my server, if the IP adress is already in use in their network), I still got no domains, because the video you made about it, was not working in UnRaid, how to share data in a secure way with friends and family (vpn works quite well for family members, but not for friends) and there are many other topics to cover.
Thank you very much for your content and keep it up Wolfgang!
Hey poopyhead, when's the SW video coming out?????
Ahaha jk, awesome content! Keep up the awesome work and thank you so much for sharing all this knowledge! ❤
LOL I would call him a poopyhead but it's only been 16 hours since he released this video, so... I'll let him slide.
I really hope Fractal keeps making the Node 804, I'm running my home server out of one and it's such a perfect case for this purpose.
I like my Node 804. It's big but I like having plenty of room.
I had one of these, but I found it terrible for swapping drives. My 10 bay Lian Li is only ITX but much nicer to work with. It wouldn't have hurt to scale it up a bit for uATX, oh well.
@@LiveWireBT I agree, I also have the 804 and it's not a good experience to change drives... What is the model of your Lian Li please ?
This is great. You mentioned at around 10 min that you put significant research into the case search. You mentioned a few Mini ITX cases. Do you happen to have a list of cases you considered on a blog or one of the forums? I am looking for a midsized tower case that supports ATX motherboards but has a similar ability to load 6-8 drives from the front that this Sagittarius case has. I don’t need actual “HOT”swap, I am just looking for a backplane.
Generally the Sagittarius looks great, but I prefer to have a slightly larger case for additional motherboard flexibility and convenience when building the system.
The Jonsbo N5 might be a good option, maybe a bit expensive, it is the same kind of dual chamber layout but with full ATX support and a 12 drives bay. Looking at some reviews it seems to have less issues than the smaller N4.
Thanks for the video Wolfgang!
Regarding the BIOS update over BMC I would like to add to the other users comment that it is best practice to start with a minimum setup! And it is adamant that the RAM sticks are installed in the correct slots. With only one RAM stick, it needs to be installed in DIMM A1 (Not A0!) in order for anything to work. A1 is the second closest to the CPU socket.
I too had to update the BMC SW first, and I needed only one try. After that the BMC is successfully flashed, it may be necessary to switch the PSU off and let the BMC restart, in order to take effect.
After that, flashing of the BIOS works, however it may present difficulties, that you will still be shown the old BIOS version. This was the case, when I had the RAM stick in DIMM A0.
Just want to point out that the bios update is done 100% via the BMC. The EFI shell comment is actually wrong. What is needed is to first do the BMC update. Reboot, check if your really on the new BMC. If not on the new BMC, flash again, reboot. Now your 100% on the new BMC. Now do the Bios update via the BMC, reboot, check? No (like 100% change it does not take on the first try), do again, reboot, ... and bingo. Second time the new bios is correctly there.
Did 3 board like this to the latest BMC and F14. The BMC update can take on the first try, but the bios update tends to always need a second try. I learned this after doing the first board update.
I wonder if there are two bios partitions and when you flash the first time, your not flashings the primary but a backup bios rom??? Not sure, but the above trick works 100% of the time, and done it on 3 board, so that is a fairly big sample size.
I can confirm, did BMC (rom.ima_enc) 1st worked fine, did bios (image.RBU). Checked BMC stated F06 BIOS. Did 'Hard Reset' from BMC power control, came back straight away as F18 bios. Recognised 5750G in BIOS system inventory.
i managed to update the bmc. But the BIOS Update is not working. Does anybody have a clue why?
@@Bleppfrei have you got a CPU in? Does it report one (even wrong type) in the BMC? When you did the firmware update from BMC did you use the image.rbu (extract from zip?) Did you select bios from the dropdown on the firmware update page? Did it report the flash completed? Did you do a 'Hard Reset' from the BMC power management page?
Just adding my own experience. I had trouble getting the board to get any signal out at all (the management console remote desktop said " no signal") I downloaded the latest firmware and bios files. Then I updated the BMC update using the rom.ima_enc file from the firmware update. This worked succesfully. Once this was done I could update the bios using the image.RBU file and selecting BIOS as update. This worked after TWO tries. Not the first try. Once this was done I got uefi console etc. Still no VGA output, but that is not that important for me and probably a bios setting.
A few days later... I did all the steps like @barefont and @boranblok sayd several times but nothing happened but nothing changed!
What worked for me:
1. flashing the cmos with a jumper
2. tried again (2 times...)
3. finally worked.
In the end i don't know if the cmos flashing did the trick, but now I'm on F18 as well 🎉
Nice setup, I love the integrated BMC. For my homelab server, I usually recycle the CPU/mobo/RAM when I upgrade my workstation, so small form factor is not an option for me. If you are in my same situation, I highly recommend the Fractal Design Meshify 2 case: it's a bit pricey but it looks very good and classy, it has amazing airflow with 9x140mm fan mount points (of course you don't need to fill them all) and has a movable panel inside that you can flip to enable for mounting of up to 8 3.5" HDDs. (11 if you use the included additional HDD cage but in that case you'll lose one bottom fan mountpoint and you'll need a shorter PSU) and 2 SATA SSD (4 if you use double sided tape to stack them)
If you're less worried about case space or size, the Node 804 is probably the best case for most people who have a Micro ATX board and need eight 3.5" drive bays. It also takes two 2.5" SSDs and has two more spots for 2.5" or 3.5" drives in the motherboard side of the case. It's reasonably priced, readily available, and is high quality.
The case used in the video, is ~$60, with ~$120 shipping crazy, I like its size and method for mounting drives but at that price I would just go with your suggestion here.
Yeah, that's what I went with for a similar build. I'm quite happy with it but the main downside is that it's quite big.
The 804 is around the same price as the one featured in the video (incl. shipping), offers more space (but is bigger)
@@christianbottger493the case in the video is $60 + $125 for shipping to the US. The Node 804 is temporarily on backorder at a lot of the online retailers, but still averages around $130-$150 shipped depending on where you get it from.
@@robertwebb7152 yesterday I ordered it for 125€ including shipping to Germany, just had to look around for a few minutes for various sellers (and there is a 10€ coupon running this week)
That case looks really neat. Gotta keep it in mind for future use when I retire my current mATX workstation and likely convert it to server.
Those Gigabyte motherboards are now for around 150 euros
I got them for under 33€ free shipping back in spring
www.piospartslap.de/Gigabyte-Mainboard-MC12-LE0-Re10-AMD-B550-AM4-Ryzen-5000-4000-3000-Server-Board-NEU-NEW
I know at least one person who did a price offer for 70€ and the seller accepted. You didn't heart his from me though (:
Thanks obama
The Wolfgang Effect
they have been 150 euros for a few months now
Merci!
Wow. It's like you were watching me last night. I was actually looking at that reddit thread and looked for that case. That case unfortunately is not really an option in the US. The price is not bad at like $140 but shipping costs more than the case at like $180. I did find a different one that looked good which I will edit this one I look through my browser history to find.
Edit: the one that I found is one of the ones he mentioned (the one with 8 vertically mounted drives) that is limited to a flex PSU.
Did you find it?
@Antioch18x I did and it was one of the ones that he actually showed that is limited to a flex PSU.
PERFECT! and it fits into KALAX shelf!! going to add to project build for 2025!
Server part deals is a good place to get those refurbished drives. They're on Amazon / eBay / their own website. Genuinely I've had nothing but good luck with everything I got from them
The "Problem" are the shipping costs, at least to Germany. Adds another 30€ to the price of the drives. Makes it sometimes a less great Deal. I was about to buy some drives, but for 25€ more i can get it Brand New with full warranty, cos of the shipping.
Just keep this in mind.
I've heard excellent things about them and they take care of you if you get a bad drive from them. I went with a different distributor for my NAS and it took months (with no returned communication) to get my drives.
@Dr_De4th12 TB used drives for around 120-140€ if you're lucky even cheaper. Where do you source your drives for 30€ in shipping :o
@Dr_De4th makes sense about the shipping since I believe it's a US distributor. You definitely need to look into local hdd refurbishers in your area for a more cheaper option
@@xvsun that price was from Server Part Deals for shipping to Germany. 🤷♂️
I never comment on any videos, but always make time to watch yours as I really enjoy them and learn something from them!
So just wanted to say thanks and big love ❤
a guide for a nixos based homserver sounds awesome.
This is a great motherboard, I've used mine for around a year as a workstation with a 5800x. Having BMC isn't great for workstation usage, but for server usage it is love
As Wolfgang said, the cheapest way is still to repurpose an older pc with reasonable amount of HDD space. The hardware in that case is definitely under 100 EUR.
Even if you have double the power consumption, say 50 W it takes many many years to make up the difference just from the electricity alone.
If building a new rig i would definitely consider a full tower Fractal case or the 804.
if electricity difference isn't less than 20W it would take a couple of years tbh
A lot of time and good work gone into this video. Thank You Wolfgang
Would love to see a tower build with 24 bays for HDD like a QNAP, but home made so its not sounding like an AIRPLANE so I can actually have it in my home.
Perfect timing as I am looking for any update of a homelab server. Thanks man!
For fan control based on HDD temp, just write to a temp file somewhere with the average or highest HDD temp every 1 minutes. Then point to this file in the pwmconfig config file for the relevant fans. Easy.
Unfortunately, the ASPEED KVM does not expose PWM control to the operating system - that's the whole problem.
@WolfgangsChannel Ah I see... Did not realise this.
Are the sensors reachable from the OS? What sensor chips are being used?
AFAIK the temperature sensors are reachable from the OS (at least the HDD ones), but the PWM controllers aren’t. Those are controlled by the BMC, not the motherboard itself.
@@WolfgangsChannel Got it, I was referring to the pwm controllers when I said sensors, apologies.
Yes I would expect the HDD temp to be readings reachable from the OS as this is a SMART attribute value, passed from the HDD through the SATA controller to the OS.
Okay, but I had this issue in the past. Check out OpenFanController project on github by SasaKaranovic. They also sell the hardware for it in their Web shop.
I'm using the same case for about 4 month now. Absolutely great case/box for 50 usd on taobao. Stuffed it with an asrock b550m pro4 matx board, 5600g and 32gb ram, added ngff-sata adapter, low profile cooler, sfp+ card and put in 8 drives, solid nas. The cons is that dust filters double sided tape is bad, changed it for a good one. Better find x570m pro4 mobo, because it has 8 sata ports and you can add 2 more with adapter for a cache ssds or smth.
The X570 chipset is a power hog though
This is basically my home server that I built last month. Same case, similar PSU, B450 motherboard (without the IPMI/BMC capabilities though), and a similar generation CPU (3900X running TDP-down in my case, because that's what I had spare). I'm using an HBA, passing that through to the VM running TrueNAS Core for my storage. Base OS of Proxmox and things generally work well!
... other than that TrueNAS VM, which somehow has a fifth of the performance of the old dedicated NAS that was running a C2750. Still not sure what is going on there.
Still, I rather like the case and think it is a bit of a sleeper for home server setups. I just wish shipping wasn't such a nightmare of a price (especially getting it to here in Norway)!
TrueNAS should not be run in a VM afaik. So that might explain your performance.
@@rickysargulesh1053 Running it in a VM is generally fine if you can do PCIe passthrough of a SAS controller so ZFS has native access to the drives. But nobody should be running Core for a new build in 2024 anyway, it's going to be deprecated soon.
Hi @aetherspoon
would you mind sharing how much your system draws idle (with the info of hoe many drives you passed through to trueNAS)? I am running proxmox and a truenas vm as well and am struggling to make it more efficient (to the point where i think it is impossible for me to reach better numbers). Thank you so much in advance!
@@tw38203 Idle (with the drives spun up, mind you) is around 90-100W. Five hard drives (along with two SSDs, but those aren't on TrueNAS) and a LSi HBA passed through. I can't get the idle power down any lower thanks to being locked to C2 power states (likely due to that HBA). :(
@aetherspoon (yt doing weird stuff with my tags here, srry) Thank you very much! Setup wise we are very similar! I've got four hdds and two ssds on my LSI HBA 9217-8i and it is at idle around 80 W reaching C3. I'll check if the HBA is the culprit later on today.
Eyy, i wrtote a comment about this board a few videos back, u finally did it :D
these boards are just absuredly cheap for what they offer its insane lol
Mobos are now 150€ and up. I am always too late to the party.
Its always too late, when an influencer posts some cool gear. Luckily for me, i bought 6 of these boards over a year ago for 35 € incl. the 1 he cooler (cannot recommend this cooler).
Oh, and it wont draw only 12-15W idle, the apus draw at least 17W, the normal chiplet ryzens at least 19-20W.
Cause u invest no time :)
@@marcelhaase8416 yeah, I am just like daily scanning /r/homelab, but you are always smarter. ;)
@@sch4kaLL the chipset uses like 5-6w not 20. I get 30w on idle with a 3700x and no cards
@@marcogenovesi8570 Im talking about the whole system, mainboard, cpu at a booted OS on NVMe/SATA and 1 ram stick installed, connected by bmc html5 console. My 5600X with this board, 1 32GB ECC stick and a 128gb sata ssd is around 20W idle on a current gentoo 6.12 kernel, after powertop autotune.
I have been doing research for a similar case. The only other option I saw was the "Auriga" which is a bit smaller and supports 6 drives
I can vouch for a Node 804 if you don't care about
Wow! Awesome video! I'm thinking on building a server like this for off-site backup (mom's house 😅) and I'll definitely use this video for some inspiration. Thank you for the great content, poopyhead!
Why did you release the video after black friday D: I used the event to buy my new home server / NAS and now I think I made all the wrong decisions hahahahah Really great content. Keep going as you are a trully reference!!!
me too ;)
I’ve been having issues with my first gen ryzen nas going into a hung state for a year and never thought it could be a cstate issue. Thanks for including that in your video.
Hey Wolfgang, I need some help. At the time of writing this, of all the eBay listings for this particular MB, 3 are from Germany and don’t offer shipping to the United States, the rest are from China going for $458+. You said in the video that just about any AM4 board should do. Do you happen to have any recommendations? I’d prefer something with ample SATA ports and 10gig networking to avoid the need for HBAs or extra PCIe cards if that’s even possible, but I’m more concerned with power efficiency more than anything. I’m pretty new to NAS builds, so help from you or anyone else would be much appreciated! Have a nice day!
Interested in this also
me too, same US boat
Looking to replace my old 8-bay Synology considering options between turnkey and BYO. I've been trying Unraid on an old Dell workstation, and you've convinced me to go BYO! It'll be my first PC build in 20 years. Looking forward to the software video. I suggest splitting it into different videos for OS options (bare metal vs virtualized), file systems & storage arrays, security & remote access, VMs & CTs & Dockers, backup & restore, etc. Thanks a ton! 😊
Topic suggestion: power efficient 10Gbs SFP network cards and switches
Still today it is hard to find reliable, power efficient alternatives to >1Gbps speeds:
- 2.5Gbe seems to be a clusterfuck with the i255/i226 NICs making trouble and VLAN-capable switches more expensive than 10Gbps alternatives
- Many 10Gbps cards either draw too much power and / or prevent the system from entering deeper C-levels
Anything based on Aquantia AQN-100, or Intel X710
what a perfect case, i have been looking for something like this in forever
14:51 a CPU cooler without a fan, but with the PSU and chassis fan blowing on it could work too.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the PSU fan is supposed to suck in air, not blow it out. Nevertheless, it might be a good solution to get rid of a small CPU fan.
Will definitely check out this case. I've been wanting to update my NAS with something that has full PCI card slots. Looks to have pretty good airflow. I've always been concerned that the Jonsbo N4 is a little too stuffy if I load up all the bays.
6:10 It sounds like you got the memory channel thing backwards. Most boards group the channels together, so that each channel is split across a pair of adjacent slots. You want your sticks to be on *separate* channels though, so on most boards that means the sticks should not be in adjacent slots. If this board recommends putting the sticks in the first and second slot, that means those two slots are in alternating channels, not "first first, second second".
His wording is ambiguous - It could be first group second group or it could be first pair of slots second pair of slots. Regardless, I think the got the point across fine
You’re right - I got confused by the colors and Gigabyte’s manual. Just confirmed with other motherboard owners that the channels work the same as any other AM4 board and added a correction to the pinned comment.
Wolfgang, yet another awesome home lab video. Thanks for your research, time, effort and talent. Keep up the good work.
Great video ... didn't even know that ZFS performs worse with SMR drives eventhough I primarly use TrueNAS ... thanks for the information :D
any raid runs (and most importantly array rebuilds) like hot garbage with SMR drives, not just ZFS but also linux mdadm raid, hardware raid cards or Windows Storage Spaces (windows software raid)
@WolfgangsChannel at 18:20 you mention an Intel Arc GPU for Plex transcoding, Q: does Plex supports Arc GPUs for transcoding?
I appreciate the research you’ve put in your channel. I’ve had retire my HP Z420 w/ Samsung 851 Pro NVME and 32 Gb of ECC memory due to Windows 11. Replaced it with HP Z4G4 workstation with the same specs except PCIE gen 4 and Windows 11 compatible. Added HP branded LSI 2917 i4e4 RAID controller to the Z420 and. 6 refurbished data center drives. Both systems, off lease, $1200 USD.
Can I call him a poopy head or the software version is out already? Lol great job mate
Oh man I absolutely love this video. You have made me aware of the possibilities on the cheap. Thank you so so much for an awesome video
Fantastic video! Just finished my N100-build in the Jonsbo N4, thanks to your vast knowledge! But I do have an 4650G Pro in my Deskmini currently. Maybe it was made for greater things than TH-cam, and that Gigabyte-board is quite a steal considering IMPI. Curse you for tempting me once more :D
do they sell n100 as standalone? I couldn't find that around here.
@@e79905 not standalone, but there are some ITX boards with the N100 made by Asus and Asrock. I used Asrocks N100M mATX-version, since it has more expansion
Also some interesting boards on Aliexpress with N100s, never tried one though
Thanks Wolfgang for this useful video. The setup is running like a charm 👌🏻
how many perfect home servers are you gonna make
💀💀💀 don't listen to this guy, wolfgang, keep em coming!
@bastienv551 wee joke mate
The perfect home servers will continue until morale improves
Wolfgang: Yes!
The best number of home servers you need is what you got + 1
Hey!!! We missed you, Wolfgang. Nice to see your work again
11:59 ths pcie sata its the worst option. This controller cannot handle multiple drives at once in good speed. Better option is LSI 9300 8i (or higher version, eg. 9400 etc).
I've been using it for years with no issues, both HDDs and SSDs.
There are similar SATA controllers that run at PCIe x1 speeds though, those will definitely be slower. I agree that an HBA flashed with IT mode is probably a safer bet - though those tend to be power hogs.
it is using an ASM1166 chipset so if it is installed on a pcie 3.0 slot it splits 2x pcie lanes of bandwith over 6 drives.
you have 2 GB/s divided by six so in worst case each drive gets 340 MB/s. this is more than mechanical drives can actually do, and you shouldn't be using Sata SSDs anyway when you can get nvme.
The biggest difference vs the LSI cards is that this only needs a few watts of power vs 10-15w for a LSI controller.
For sata drives the 9300 is massive overkill (it's 12Gbit SAS which is not usable by Sata drives) and even more so the 9400.
NVMe drives have a different problem - most consumer chipsets have a limited number of PCIe lanes and lack bifurcation support. OCULink ports are still reserved to HEDT/server boards AFAIK.
SATA drives will work fine for most people, and every PCIe slot can become 8 SATA slots in a pinch.
9300-16i used 27w just for the card. My 9500-16i uses around 8 to 9 W (just the cards)
The 9500 series is by far the most power efficient
Awesome! I have build something similar, used a NZXT H1 with a 6700xt and a 5600x cpu, and attached a home made nas enclosure with a 4 bay 3.5 hdd using 2, 2 bay hdd holders from unused pc cases, attached a 140mm fan and done! Home server for documents, family jellyfin stream, and remote cloud gaming! Can play and access everything on my server no matter where i am in the world!
The MoBo is 250€ now 😢
I have four servers with these motherboards at home for a year now and I am very happy with them.
Were they 60€?
@@diegomanas84 I bought these for £45 but they are now double the price. Good thing I bought a few spares
@@diegomanas84 Not likely haha... I'm thinking of the Asrock B550M Pro 4, it is not server-grade but has similar inputs, supports RAID 0, 1, 10, has 6 inputs for SATA and with a nanokvm you can diagnose it online.
Good video! Some years ago I wanted to build a NAS, but I didn't have the budget. Now I don't need it. My internet connection is so fast, downloading things is not a problem anymore. I don't need to store that much stuff. I have a raspberry pi 4 with an 240GB SSD and a same size pendrive connected to it. 😊
This case is amazing. I hope it comes to us markets cause shipping it for me would be more than the case
nice built. amazing job finding the motherboard with BMC.
I have a similar build inside a Cooler Master N200. I had to be a bit creative with installing the drivers, 5 SSD and 2 HDD. Great efficiency on the Ryzen CPU and more than enough power for my use.
This seems like the perfect NAS case for an IKEA Kallax shelf :)
Thanks, great video, and yes the software video would also be very appriciated😊
That case is an amazing find. Thank you for your efforts!
Hi @WolfgangsChannel, thanks for bringing this board back to my attention. You made some mistakes in the video, but you corrected them already in previous comments (e.g. bios update can be done via BMC, but as described in some forum entries, it is very hard to get it done, but the bios update works with a non-supported CPU. So you can update via the BMC to latest version (v18 at time of this comment) with an unsupported CPU. I recommend to only put one DIMM into the A1 slot). In general the board is very picky, some issues prevent it from starting (e.g. putting a 4xNVMe PCIe adapter into the x16 slot and attempt to start with bifurcation set wrongly). But if the board finally is configured as required, it works very stable. Using an APU makes it a bit more complicated additionally. It also seems that the power regulators are not made for high power performance CPUs and needs lots of cooling then.
Can you recommend a proper Gen3 10G network card, to be used in the PCIe x4 slot?
Thanks and Regards,
//R.
There are a few AQC-100 based SFP+ adapters (e.g. www.trendnet.com/products/10g-sfp-pcie-adapter/10-gigabit-pcie-sfp-network-adapter-TEG-10GECSFP-v3 ) which support PCIe 3.0
Wowowo in twi days i will recive my final part for my new home server i’m glad it’s very similar
Thanks for this awesome build! Not sure if I ever get to build something like this in the near future, but it sure is a nice inspiration. Looking forward to when the software video comes out :)
I normally won't bother with any case that cannot be rack mounted now days but I do like that case.
О, дааааа!!!
Вольфганг, ты лучший!
Спасибо за отличный ролик. Корпус не без недостатков, но это лучшее решение, после Jonsbo-N1.
Не смотря на его стоимость и цену доставки, буду брать.
A nice video but I think it's popularity drove up the prices of the components. The motherboard is now 250€ and the case has a shipping charge of 70€ to ship to Europe!! Just those two components make it close to the same price as an off the shelf NAS.
Using this case for around half a year and can agree that it's really good enough. The main competitor is Fractal Design N804 which is hard to buy
Terminal font is a sublime rage bait, well done
Ten film jest tak tlusty, że musiałem robić notatki. ❤🎉
I just ordered a variation of this setup. Super excited to build it. Unfortunately the motherboard cannot be found under 140 euros anymore, so I went for a cheaper non-server mATX board with similar functionality bar the BMC. I also managed to snag the CPU for 70 dollars and I got a used set of ecc memory 4x16gb for ~90 euros. Besides those, I got all the same parts and my total cost is 540 euros. I also went yolo on some refurbished HDDs on amazon. I would normally not go for used hdd, but they are refurbished (and tested) seagate exos and they were like 650 euros for 4x14TB which is an absolute steal.
Quite spectacular to get such a powerful setup with so much storage for around 1200 euros in total.
Thanks a lot for the inspiration, I was thinking of upgrading my rpi+usb hdd setup for quite a while, but I never liked the limitations of pre-made NAS setups, and I was scared of building a system that is too power hungry, but this is great. Looking forward to setting it all up in the coming weeks.
Hey @runtz-pwn which board are you using in this setup i want to build it also
Thank you so much for this updated video. I've been sitting on a 4650G CPU in doubt what to do with it: use an expensive mini ITX board or a bigger micro ATX one. Six minutes into the video I paused to instantly purchase that Gigabyte motherboard. Keep up the good stuff, love your channel and quality content and wish you happy holidays even though I'm a bit early.
absolutely amazing video. I was looking just for something like this.
Damn it! Bought a used 12600kf plattform two days ago for upgrading my NAS and now i see this.
This is amazing! I've recently built a home server/NAS and your videos have been a great source of information for me. That being said... you're a poopyhead ;)
That reminds me when I built my first NAS/Home Server. But I went with the more expensive Asrock Rack (and ECC Unbuffered Memory was also way more Expensive..)
But... I made the mistake of using a non-pro Zen 3 CPU and only noticed a few months back, that while my System Posts without any issues, ECC isn't really enabled/working as intended.
One the best builds , looks power efficent excellent work
Yay new Wolfgang Video. Recently got a hold of a ton of retired mini PCs.
They were basically brand new but the company wanted everyone to have laptops.
3 10500, 1 12500T, 2 13500T, 1 14500T and a 4650G Pro.
I think im going to use the 4650G in my htpc and deciding if i should use the 12500T or the 13500T in the nas server
Poopie head
Christmas came early!
nice, looking forward for the software side of the server, it will be my first build.
Great video, this answered a lot of questions I've had.
would love to see someone make a case that's this idea, but cut the cube in half and put the halves side by side so it's wide and flat to fit in the gap between desk and bookshelves
Very interesting motherboard! Get one to Wendell!
I tend to use SAS vs normal SATA so I can mix and match, my parity drive is a 12 TB SAS drive for example.
A lot of hard work made this great video, thank You for giving us yet another easy to consume masterpiece.
Jeeeez! You're finally did it with AMD AM4 CPU. Thank you.
Really nice build. It’s what I considered before deciding to go down the used Xeon world for guaranteed ECC support (since some sources seemed to suggest ECC was not really guaranteed and more as a result of mobo manufacturer support).
After doing that and comparing power consumption of many of your builds I’ve come to realise that almost any bare mobo/cpu setup and gold psu with the correct eco settings will draw 15W at idle. Even 37W at idle with those hard drives is not that impressive in the consumer pc parts world. Basically as long as you don’t get server grade hard drives and ultra old CPUs you are sweet. Thanks again for all the research you provide.
I found that Gigabyte board for cheap just days before your video, and ordered it after watching, only for the vendor to cancel on me just yesterday because their vendor doubled the price. Wish I'd pulled the trigger sooner and bought it as soon as it was available