Im tired of "cafe racers " being built with off road tyres . FFS . The cafe racer was born when people modified what was available, when sports bikes weren't available. They had rear set foot rests low handle bars better brakes and tyres . They tried to emulate the factory race bikes of the day , but still keep them road legal . These days its a frame loop an e bay seat and there you go. No 9ne seems to know the difference between a cafe racer a scrambler and a bobber
@@paulwhite7475 We all like different styles, and it's certainly not for everyone to mix and match styles. Absolutely the easiest and safest way to just follow the design guide, it's more difficult and a 'dangerous' path to combine styles 😬😬😬
@@jamesallen4050 haha, first of all: it's not Comstar but Comcast rims on the bike. Secondly: both are classic Honda rims from the 70s and 80s, and they are gorgeous 🤩🤩🤩
Typical of the current generation - badly ripping off previous generations and being a combination of smug about it and wholly unaware they’re not creating their own culture.
Underrated video. It's always nice to see someone applying mathematical symmetry (which exists in everything we consider beautiful in nature) into their design. Having good form has always contributed the most in making something look amazing imo
Thanks 🙏 I agree, and when exact symmetry is not possible or feasible the solution is often to balance the elements to give an impression of symmetry 😊
For me the flat line horizontal is the most important to make the bike look right, that's why a lot of modern bikes with trellis frames are not suitable as the frame slopes upwards around the fuel tank and therefore it's impossible to make the tank sit flat. Considering the shape of your tank with the back sloping downwards it actually looks really good. Really nice job, I wish I had your welding skills. excellent video.
Thanks 👍 You are absolutely right. For newer bikes it's better to build something completely different, for example streetfighter style or modernizing the look.
Thinking back on how and why I modified my bike in the sixties. Made it lighter, tuned engine and improved ergonomics for high speed riding. But also keep it legal for road use. Except no heavy silencers, straight pipes. In the style of real road racers. The Triumphs was mostly high speed city bikes with a more upright riders and higher handlebars. Rarely seen on the twisties, due to reliability issues. Then I regarded the Manx Norton and the Velocette Thruxton as the most beautiful bikes ever made. The 7R boy racer was also good looking. One thing I don't understand is the use of a single seat on a cafe racer. One reason going to a cafe was to find a girl for the evening. Short and light weight for better bike performance. Looking at my Manx, it differs much from the angles you prefer. My other classic race bikes, the CB and the RDLC also differs. As does the Velo. The old bikes had dry sump oil system and an oil tank. So the space behind the engine was occupied by carbs, filters, oil tank, battery and tool box. Giving different appearance.
Thanks for commenting 🙏 Getting feedback from those who actually were part of the "cafe racer movement" back in the 60s is rare, but very fun and interesting 😊 I guess the style is a bit different now than it was 60 years ago. Many trends are short lived, I think one of the most important reasons for the cafe racer style still exists and is relevant is because it has evolved and adapted to newer bikes. Have to agree, putting on a seat sounds stupid 😅
@@kihestad well,ppl don't know what they are doing.using many cheap parts,trying to be different in ways that are not logical,but the biggest mistake I've seen,is that many care how the bike looks,but not how I feels or rides.and many technical aspects,like wrong petcocks,don't calculate their reserve,and things like that
Hi! I have been following your videos on the CB400 for a while after I bought my own CB400 many years ago to do a similar project. I have never undertaken anything like this before and I would like to say your videos are a huge inspiration to me! I also have the brat/scrambler style in mind and I am going to base my project on a lot that you have done. To me your thought process, design iterations and fabrication explanations are beyond excellent and I only hope to follow in your great work! From one CB400 brat/scrambler owner here in the UK! Thank you for all your amazing work! I cant wait to see it all finished!
It's just fantastic to hear my videos can be helpful 🙏 the CB400 is a great bike 🤩🤩 As you might have noticed I have taken a short break from my CB400 cafe racer project to get my Cagiva 750 Elefant sorted. I will continue the CB400 as soon as my Cagiva is sorted 🤞🤞🤞
Pretty good job! Only thing for me is the main horizontal bone line should be considered with the driver's weight. So the motorcycle alone should be a bit tail high head down, it is a typical sports/aggressive line and prevents the low tail/tilting back at driving cause of the driver's weight.
Thats an interesting thought. In a design process I guess it would be smart to not only design the bike based on a profile picture of the the motorcycle only, but also have a picture with the intended rider as well 🤔
You are absolutely correct! It all originated in the UK in the 60s by youths stripping down their fathers old motorcycle to make it go faster 😎 Today it's mostly about style, secondly you want it to sound good and lastly you want it to go decently fast and have good riding abilities 😊 If you want to go racing you really want a completely other type of bike than a cafe racer today 😏
As someone with my own cafe project waiting in the garage, I will estimate the reason most cafes of today are ugly is due to lack of skill or confidence to start the metalworking. 😅
As someone who was riding in the UK in the 1960s I don’t recognise most of the objects people seek to pass off as ‘cafe racers’ these days. The ‘proper’ cafe racers were styled to look like (and sometimes go like) bikes that were used in short-circuit track racing. So engines were often tuned, footrests were rear-set, handlebars were clip-ons, gear-change often reversed by turning the gear-pedal ‘back-to-front’ to match the footrests. The tank would often be a larger than standard (usually alloy) number that the rider could lay down on when ‘doing the ton’. Generally people wouldn’t play with wheel or tyre sizes, and that big ugly fat front wheel and tyre on modern efforts just looks WRONG, as it also does on so-called ‘scramblers’. My brother-in-law built and raced scramblers and they had BSA frames for strength, Triumph 500cc engines for lightweight power, and usually Norton Roadholder forks for control. And an 18”-21” wheel combination because that worked. The modern (and to my eyes) ugly offerings are just exercises in styling which probably handle like camels and are almost unridable and certainly poor efforts on a race track or a scrambles (motocross) course. So who cares where the lines go or meet up if the bike is not useable? Might as well be a ‘chopper’ (another useless styling exercise).
Times has definitely changed 😌I don't think many people look at cafe racers as racing motorcycles any more, today you would select a completely different kind of bike if you want to go fast. At least for me a cafe racer is mostly about design and nostalgia 😊
I have already lowered the front fork 35mm internally, cannot drop it into the yoke on this bike because it crashes with the handlebar. I want to have some clearance from the wheels on this bike since it's a cafe racer hybrid scrambler build, I'd rather have talker rear shocks if needed to get it in level.
CLEAN i think is best way to compliment your bike .... as for tank placement , different or not , it works ! Very nice swoop with the elevated rear portion of tank ... cant wait to see where you hide the charging / electronic system
@@monokheros5373 Thanks 🙏 I have planned to make my own very slim litium battery to keep under the seat, hopefully I am able to put all the wiring and electrical components very flat an hidden under the seat or the tank 🤞 time will show 😬😁
13:04 I like it! Except wheels size - one of the advantages of spokes is it’s not too hard to relace the rear and put on a new rim to match the front, if the swing arm allows it. Thank you for the video, very informative. Also, your workshop is immaculate 😂
I thoroughly agree there’s a lot of ill thought out ad-hoc abominations out there. In Britain it started with those horrific streetfighter ar§€ up mongrels. Those principles are sound guidelines to this eye. Your problem is that tank & the lower edge which was designed to flow into a side cover. I really think your build needs to integrate something here too, running back up to the seat base. A pleasure to watch.
Thanks for the positive feedback! 🙏 The original tank on my bike definitely presents a challenge. I considered replacing it with a classic Honda tank or an aftermarket option, but ultimately decided to keep the original for both cost reson and because I wanted to preserve most of the bike's original signature elements (that also includes the rims). By using oposite shaped lines on the tank decals I try to visually balance the curves. Additionally, I've made the seat hoop's angle to align with the tank's bend, creating hopefully a cohesive look. Time will show if these design choises is enough to justify keeping the bent lower edge on the tank🤞
I believe this is a well-intentioned video, but if you follow these "principles" too rigidly they lead to very formulaic builds with little character. These "principles" are merely suggestions; you can break them and still have a beautiful, tasteful design. We remember the builds that have something unique about them, not the me-too builds.
Absolutely right, the author behind the design guide also says that this is not exact rules but just guidelines and it's up to each builder to make variations. You cannot look away from all design guidelines though, then it's no longer a cafe racer
Great solution for the tank mount, I'm doing something similar. I want to get the line of the tank before it dips down to be level with the seat subframe
Yes, I know these tires are not for everyone. Remember I am building a "hybrid" cafe racer / scrambler, so I am breaking some of the rules with my build. The motorcycle will be used mostly for short trips to the city centre, but also for trips to the beach and on gravel roads. It's like the opposite of having an adventure bike with street tires for driving in asphalt only 😊
Agree, but there are some other tasks that come first. The next job is to fit the rear fender, then make the seat tray and the seat. I want to do all the wiring and mount all kinds of small stuff to make sure I can remove unnecessary brackets and add new ones where needed. Then comes the fun getting it cleaned up 🤩
I have been MIG welding up until the last few months, all work on my cafe racer is done using it (not all welds are very pretty though) I have recently bought a Magma TIG welder from Toolfarm here in Norway, I hope with practice that can be even better than MIG
@@kihestad thank you. I really thought stick welding would be enough for motorcycles since it is very easy to use. Well, looks like time to invest TIG/MIG welding and learn to use it hehe😅😅
This is coming out amazing! Love the new subframe. The CB definitely needed a straight anchor point from the subframe instead of the original curved one. I saw many people keeping that, and it really killed the vibe of the bike. Will the electrical box under the seat extend all the way to the end? Mine is very similar (a 1984 450), but the box is smaller and deeper, protruding a little too much from the side view. Currently, my bike is totally disassembled to fix a valve that broke off and dropped inside the engine 🤦♂. Hope to get it back on the road soon. Good luck with the rest of your build, and keep the videos flowing!
I absolutely agree, keeping the original frame and try to work around it (like I tried on my version 1.0) does not really work 😌 I plan to make the tray under the seat just go a tiny bit lower than the bottom of the seat hoop, but having 45 degree angels on the side walls so you cannot see it from "above". I plan to make my own lithium battery based on 18650 batteries, it will be very slim and should fit in a slim seat tray. The seat tray will go from the tank and to the upswing at the rear of the seat hoop. Oooh, a broken valve does not sound good 🫤Thanks for watching and commenting, and good luck with your build as well! 👍👍
I didn't know about these design princeples, but I'm very happy that I do now. Thank you for sharing. I just purchased a 1976 CB550 Four Supersport that has already had some work done to it and I would like to change it. Luckily, I know exactly what to fix now! I love that motorcycle lift you have, did you buy this or make it?
Ahh, that's the exact same model and make I had as my first 'heavy' motorcycle 🤩 it's the one with 4-1 exhaust isn't it? That is a great looking bike! I bought the lift table, but I have modified it slightly. I have made a couple of videos about it...
This is a very cool design study! I am a bit of a sucker for reverse Comstars, excellent bike. Completely agree, a bit of extra shock height is needed in the rear. Cheers, from the American Northeast.
The reverse Comstars (I think Honda called them Comcast) is very cool. They are a bit wider than the older Comstars, and I like that they have sharper "edges" compared to the comstarts 😊
Again an excellent & enjoyable video on multiple levels (pun intended). Satisfying seeing it come together. Also fun to realise how I seem to have used principles that I 'grabbed from the air' which were actually written down by kind Mr Trelogan :D
Happy to hear you enjoyed the video 😊 By just copying or being inspired from others build, you will probably implement most of the guidelines. Nice to have a systematic summary of them though, and it makes you even more aware of them and why they are there 😊
I don't have a video for that unfortunately, but it's not that different. Many of the design guides are the same, except typically you route the exhaust higher to get better ground clearance, and you want higher handlebars for different driving position (like I did on my bike) and you might want higher clearance from wheels to fender as well, and perhaps even longer shocks and an overall taller bike.
I agree with all the guidelines, The only thing would like to see added would be the style of wheels. Spokes prefered or something that looks period correct
That's true, the first rule : "the foundation" says the wheels should be fairly similar in size. No guidelines beside that. The wheels are quite important and a big part of the visual appearance, it could absolutely be a separate guideline!
ive seen many cafe racers extending their swing arm to make the bike looks good in proportion, i am planning to do it mainly because i wanna lower the bike, but i am hesistant since cafe racers doesnt have that huge gaps in the inner part of rear tire, should i just lover the rear and front by changing the shocks or just extend my swingarm?
Are u sure about that? Extending the length of the swing arm to push the rear wheel further back is a very rare mod if u ask me. For a dragster bike, ok. Not for a cafe racer.
@@akhinyt1168 I think whats most common is to neither change the rear shocks or swingarm, rather modify the seat hoop for where to put on the seat. You can normally lower the seat and seat hoop, but keep the suspension as original.
Bone line did improve a lot! And the back needs to go up a bit and/or the front lower in my opinion. But he.. its your design so do what you like! I will put my own caferacer against the principals, never even knew they excisted.
Yep, it's a bit tall at the front and/or low at the rear to be a 100% cafe racer type. But I am not really aiming for that, this one is supposed to be a tiny bit scrambler-ish 😊 I think it will be a bit better with taller rear shocks / raised lower mounts.
I am quite satisfied with it, I wanted originally a scissor lift but they are too expensive for my budget. This one was very affordable, at least when I bought it (on sale). I made a video about it here: th-cam.com/video/H4oMGfEGHKc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=MDHvpav4Lb3CHR5V
It's bought here in Norway from the warehouse: JULA. It's very common to find under different names, I know in the US you can buy it from Harbour Freight.
Glad you liked it and thanks for the sub! I am trying to minimize the use of cut scenes, I don't like them either. It requires more work though: more planning, practicing and B-roll footage. Trying to improve each video, but sometimes easy solutions are made in the edit just to get done 🥴
One thing I cannot stand with cafe's is the great triangle of nothingness under the seat. Oh, it looks awful! I think on your bike, you can tie in the odd shape of the back of the tank to the seat and/or some sort of side panels. Also, you really should run an up pipe on a scrambler.
@@Jeekinz One of the goals with the cafe racer was to get it as lightweight as possible, removing side panels, the heavy battery and the air filter box saves weight. The empty space left behind is also a visual proof for a successful weight reduction 😁
@@kihestad Look at the thumbnail pic to Racer TV 2023 20 best and tell me that side panels don't look better. Those parts you mentioned barely weigh anything and bikes run better with air boxes. That's why they are there. If you want to save weight, stop building stuff out of steel. Use aluminum and carbon fiber, titanium hardware.
I would guess some of the design principles would stay the same, but definitely not all. Higher handlebar, get more clearance to the ground, increase suspension/fork travel length, move exhaust higher up, lifting front fender, softer/bigger seat, and probably more ... 🤔
@@kihestad I just did a scrambler conversion on a Royal Enfield 650 and I’m still tweaking it. It’s not a full on custom but I can travel, camp and do gravel roads with it. It’d be fun to do a custom scrambler from a Japanese bike like what you started with.
That's true (unless you are building for selling it). However, some people don't have that much interest in the design part, but enjoy the mechanical part of the build. I hope some guidelines can at least be of help for some 😊 At least it has been for me, even though I thought I made a decent design job even before I learned about these principles, I can see now that my build is getting much better after I learned about this.
Great video, I enjoyed. I’ve subscribed for more ;😊 I also wouldn’t be shocked if you ended up being a serial killer. This was scarily meticulous and calculated. 😂
Thanks for the sub ❤️ I have had a break from working on my cafe racer the last half year to get my old adventure motorcycle done. Right now I am planning a small garage upgrade project, and then I'll be back working on the cafe racer project - too many projects, not enough free time🙄
I have never planned a mono shock on this build, and it's not a typical cafe racer thing - although it is possible. Bobbers typically use mono shock, but that is quite a different style
Tanks from the early 80's onward are often made to connect to the side panels. This makes them look weird without those pannels in place. Making a truly good looking build is not easy.
Agree, I think it's a nice framework not only as a build guide, but also as reference if a build feels 'off' and you want to figure out what could be improved.
Hei! Digger videoene dine! Liker spesielt hvordan du programmerte en keyless system og diverse😄. Jeg anbefaler YSS schock, god kvalitet og Perfect oppgradering fra de originale med stort utvalg. Jeg har et spørsmål, er du med i norwegian cafe racer gruppen på fb? Vis ikke så ta en titt innom du vil😄 gleder meg til flere videoer!
I have a 2016 harley xg750 street. Blacked out model. Ive been wanting to modify it into a cafe racer. Was my whole intent on the purchase. Anyone have any recommends or advice on this???????? Not alot of info out there and even less mechanics that know anything of value about doing this. Last shop I took it to they didn't even know what a cafe racer was and had no clue even about the model of bike I have. I had to walk back out the same door I entered......
Hehe, not knowing about cafe racers? Just stay away from that shop 😅 the author behind the guidelines actually made an article about making a cafe racer from a HD - check here: www.bikeexif.com/build-harley-cafe-racer
I don't understand modern Cafe racers, they orginated from having slow bikes wanting to go fast. The closest modern thing to cafe racer are the gsxr riders who strip their bikes down for track riding. I'm working on a kz1000 cafe racer, it needs to handle, it needs power and it needs to put the power down, those are my requirements for the bike. Those are the same requirements original cafe racers had. In my opinion looks shouldn't matter for cafe racers, sure they're beautiful but they're supposed to be fast and agile
Take any old bike Put a pair of clubmans on it Done In California alot of people will build a cafe as cheaply as possible and then ask $6k for it. By cafe I mean cut a few parts off. Add a nice seat and headlight ferring. It's sad because they take these classics and ruin them instead of making a nice cafe. Your build looks very nice.
Agree, better to keep the bike original than ruin it with a bad rebuild. If a classic motorcycle is in decent condition, I would recommend restoring it. If it's not a classic, and in poor condition, well then a cafe racer build is OK, but it has to be done right 😠😊
@@corneilcorneil hehe, the Vulcan us a very cool bike but it's more or less a bobber originally, quite some work to make a cafe racer out of it - but I have seen some impressive projects that has turned out great 😊
@@kihestad From the Vulcan S? Never saw a nice build. Kawa trows a plastic screen on a bike and calls it the "cafe" version. For me, it is a Ninja with forward controls. 😝 The Vulcan S is even no real Vulcan, that are (mostly) V twin cruisers
Everything else is quite nice, but I couldn't live with that tank bottom line. It should be straight as possible. It's angled in too many directions. I would personally try to modify tank, which would be a pain or consider some different tank. Something in veins of Bonneville, though don't know if dimensions are even close to fitting on that. But anyway, more "classic" older style fuel tank. To me problem exactly is that those shapes scream "this is shaped for fairing to continue" and it just doesn't cut it for me.
Yea, this tank will never be perfect if the aim is to get a true old school cafe racer style 😌 I have however decided to keep it as is, trying to make it a feature instead of a flaw 😬 By having parallel lines with the upswing on the seat hoop and "reverse curves" on the tank decals I hope it will look OK. At least it's some kind of unique design, and some kind of tribute to the original bike.
@@kihestad Sure it's option. And good one in regard of breaking the "rules". Imo too many stick to guideline X and make their builds fairly generic looking and losing a lot of personality going that route. Like virtually 95% of modern cars. Made with aerodynamics and trends in mind and they usually end up looking really boring and similar. I personally like surprising ideas some have come up. Recently saw for sale 90's Kawasaki ZZR made to modern scrambler and military paint camo style with hand made leather bags and stuff. It looked really bizarre and unexpected in a very good way. Never ever thought that frame and bike like that would be suitable for such conversion.
Yes, that's a very good point! We don't want all bikes to look the same. It's nice to see experiments, some builds really surprise with unexpected and very good looking design 😊
What bugs me more is how terrible the performance usually get with these cafe racers. Fitting these CV carburettors with pod filters usually leads to a bad mixture and sloppy power curve negating any performance gained with the weightloss. And after they're ridden in ground they end up for sale online with "just needs a carb clean" in the description
Haha, yes it's absolutely a challenge with these small podfilters. Jetting them to provide more fuel is possible, but for carbs made for laminar flow It's hard to get good performance using podfilters directly on the carb intake as it leads to turbulent flow (I think 🤔).
@@kihestadexactly, I've seen alot of solutions on these honda twins. blocking the wide end of the podfilter with some tape seems to work. placing the podfilters further away from the carbs seems to work better but doesn't look as good. Personally I leave the stock airbox on my cb400t in combination of having a balance in the exhaust system. But yeah, that leaves me to deal with the awkward frame these bikes have.
A café racer had to be able to drive at least 100 mph. So all unnecessary parts were removed to reduce the weight. Installing lower handlebars to reduce air resistance. Give the engine more power. That is the principle of a cafe racer. Proportion or appearance had nothing to do with it in the first place. Over time it has become a fashion concept... Appearance is more important than performance? It must be period related! A discussion between so-called purism and principle. The idea of what a cafe racer should look like is not what makes it a cafe racer.
I totally agree with your comments regarding the design concept, a majority of cafe racers look so wrong and not in proportion. Yes it`s a personal thing, but there are so many ugly cafe racers out there.
Don't know.. I mean.. interesting video but I think that Cafè Racer Bikes are form of art without any rule to follow. What you like may be somebody else doesn't.
@@wtfftw24 I have to disagree. For example: if I put on long front forks, a high handlebar, lower the seat and put on a small fat rear tyre on my bike: then I have built a chopper, not a cafe racer at all. The reason we can distinguish between different types / styles of motorcycles is because they are built using a set of 'rules' that makes it look a certain way.
@@kihestad yes of course but you made an extreme example. I have been building Cafè for about 10 years now and I still prefer not to have any rule to follow but do what I like or my customer likes. Btw thanks for your feedback and complement for your channel 👍
Ah, cool - I guess you have quite a lot of experience after 10 years of building cafe racers, a design guide is probably not needed at that point 😁 Instead of this being rules to follow, you can think of it as a collection design elements typically used on successful cafe racer builds. I would think we all get ideas, get inspired, and become influenced by looking at other projects. This design guide is really just that put in system 😊
0:58 You forgot something. Money💵 I'm 17 trying to build my own cafe racer, without all the skills and tools that you have. And I cant take a risk if it ends in financial loss
@@matthewhattia7091 Hey, 17 and already working on your own cafe racer project - that's just fantastic 👍🤩 You have plenty of time to learn, practice and save up money to buy tools and parts. Take your time and just do one improvement at a time. Then put all parts back on, and you have a usable bike thats a bit better than before, and also most likely worth a bit more. Glhf! 😊
you asked for comments how it looks and i feel compelled to say that it does not correspond to my idea of a well-made motorcycle, neither visually nor in terms of craftsmanship. and by the way: where you learned that weird technique of bending tubes? it´s just horrible.
This is a very common way to make a second bend in a new direction 'over' or very close to an existing bend, or when making a bend close to the end of the pipe. In these situations regular bending machine does not work. I guess you're not a builder yourself, so it's totally understandable you did not know that, but it's never to late to learn 😊👍
@@kihestad i have been customizing motorcycles for 30 years and have to do this in accordance with the german tüv regulations in order to be allowed on the road at all. rebending by means of welded slots would be an immediate exclusion criterion. i had to build and weld the rear section of my vfr completely from 22x2mm precision tube. (you can see it on my channel) but this is only possible if you have a welding certificate. a rear section like yours would have to be bent to fit from a single piece of tube. without subsequent modifications. if necessary, you could correct fine details with heat spots.
Yes, this is a scrambler-brat-cafe racer hybrid 😝 I am mixing and matching the different styles to my liking. I am not putting on clip-on handlebars either. It's not exactly suitable to go off-road in very rough terrain, but it should be possible to take it on gravel roads or a trip to the beach 😎
You are so off point here. Cafe Racers were British bikes ((Triumph, Norton, BSA) made to be lighter and faster between the cafe, up to an agreed point to turn around and head back again before the song on the jukebox finished. They were never Hondas or BMWs. And never had knobbly tyres. Forget about the correct angles of the frame and all that nonsense. It is a Brit bike with clip ons. End of...
I am well aware of the origin of the cafe racer trend, but it has evolved since then. It was all about going fast back in the 60s, nowadays it’s the style that matters. If you want to go fast we have better bikes for that today 😊
It’s alotta ruffled feathers in the comments. Sounds like 1 of 3 things is happening: 1. Your old and regret never achieving a traditional cafe racer 2. You USED TO build these and don’t feel you got your “deserved recognition “ 3. You just old and grumpy and don’t want to admit realizing you were wrong for not teaching more who asked for your expertise Why else would you have clicked on this video in the first place 🤔
Hehe, well some are very passionate and have some strong opinions. It must be allowed to thing what you think, as long as you say it with respect for others - that might think differently.
Hi and thanks! I have a question about clip ons and the height of the front forks. The front of my bike is too high. Will clip ons be enough to create a lower, sportier and straighter line between the rear end and the front end? Or, do I also have to push the forks up through the tripple tree and thereby lower the front end? That is, can clip ons create the 'impression' of a lower front end - even though it is in fact not lowered?
Hi, what bike are you rebuilding? I think most bikes look best when the front fork is shortened internally like this: th-cam.com/video/18ugcgtkrxY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=pmhPxmp1qSJrdjhS Lowering it through the triple tree is also possible of course, but not my favorite way of doing it 😉 If the front is high, or there is a big gap between the front of the engine to the front wheel, just putting on clip-ons might not be enough to get the true cafe racer look
@@kihestad Choppers are the same - they were originally chopped to go faster and they became more about looks. Nothing wrong with it - just a different thing now. In all honesty, you can't create a racer out of a regular bike without changing 90% of it = modern sport bikes are too good.
I think you are spot on. Typically the ones being critical to these design guidelines are referring back to how it was originally back in the 60s - it was all about going fast, building a lightweight racer motorcycle was the goal. How it looked was not important at all. Let's just say: times have changed 🥴😁
The tank is not the classic cafe racer type, I have decided not to swap it though. Trying to keep some of the bike's original look to see if it can work out 🤞
Nice brat bike. But not a cafe racer. English cafe racers (yes, we invented them) were conversions of the "best bike the owner could afford" into a racer-like bike to make it look and feel faster when you sling your leg over it even if it never sees a race track in its life. Clip-ons and rear-set footrests are an absolutely integral part of the design, just as wide wheels and a lowered stance are for custom fast cars.This looks like a scrambler. Its like building a Land Rover and calling it as fast car. Its not, even if it goes fast. Look how a bike like a Triton looks - and how its ruined when an old man buys it and takes off the clip-ons.
@@zenscapeUKmedia I do agree, almost 😳 My bike build is as I mentioned a "hybrid" - it's not a pure cafe racer or a brat or a scrambler, but a mix. It's probably closest to a brat style.
look. respect to your craft and all, but f'ck me, let a person build it however they like lol. almost all of the time, its not because the person doesn't have the vision, its because they don't have the skill or maybe they don't know how to tackle specific tasks due to a lack of specific experience or equipment. then some gatekeeping design expert asshole tells them its ugly and doesn't follow rules and that only goes to knock motivation out of young people who initially have a lot of enthusiasm. one thing I've learnt over the years is to let a person do whatever they want. More often than not, they'll end up with similar opinions as you anyway through trial and error so calling their work ugly if it doesn't follow rules doesn't really help their process.
I am glad you are defending those who ended up with a less successful result. I think however nobody wants their build to end up looking ugly, and hopefully knowing about these guidelines will help those who might not really know how to do it in the first place... 🤔
@@kihestad yeah, no doubt. Even though it may have looked like it, its not a jab at you per se, more of the motorcycle community as a whole who enjoy to belittle others because their bike's styling may not conform to what's 'proper' or 'correct'. Everyone does it, even I'm guilty of it if my mood is off, lol.
I don't like customizations in general. I'm all for keeping any vehicle in the original state. But the cafe-racer is in top of the worst things to do. It will most certainly be ugly, no matter what you do. Stop ruining vehicles. No, I didn't watch the video. There's no point.
This was such an incredible video. So much details and yet you manage to put in a good story around the rules of what a cafe racers is all about. I'm really impressed how well you change between the angles, the camera work, audio everything is on par. Well done mr. Hestad. 🤌🏻🎥
Thanks bro, glad to get your approval - tried my best to combine two topics this time: a bit design theory and real life usage of it - glad to hear you thought it worked out 🤩🙏
A café racer had to be able to drive at least 100 mph. So all unnecessary parts were removed to reduce the weight. Installing lower handlebars to reduce air resistance. Give the engine more power. That is the principle of a cafe racer. Proportion or appearance had nothing to do with it in the first place. Over time it has become a fashion concept... Appearance is more important than performance? It must be period related! A discussion between so-called purism and principle. The idea of what a cafe racer should look like is not what makes it a cafe racer.
Today, if you want to go fast, you can a get much "better" newer bikes. Just pick up a racer oriented mc from the 90s or later, and you outperform any cafe racer 😎 The original idea behind cafe racers was to get stock bikes from the 60s to go faster, nowadays it's all about style (If you ask me)
![[#2024MAMA] G-DRAGON - 무제(Untitled, 2014)+POWER+HOME SWEET HOME+뱅뱅뱅+FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ox29z5Nf1Uk/mqdefault.jpg)
Well well thought out and informative video mate 👏
Thanks 🙏 Happy to hear you liked it 😊
Im tired of "cafe racers " being built with off road tyres . FFS . The cafe racer was born when people modified what was available, when sports bikes weren't available. They had rear set foot rests low handle bars better brakes and tyres . They tried to emulate the factory race bikes of the day , but still keep them road legal . These days its a frame loop an e bay seat and there you go. No 9ne seems to know the difference between a cafe racer a scrambler and a bobber
@@paulwhite7475 We all like different styles, and it's certainly not for everyone to mix and match styles. Absolutely the easiest and safest way to just follow the design guide, it's more difficult and a 'dangerous' path to combine styles 😬😬😬
And comstar wheels! Why? Ffs this video is about design principles and the guide is using comstar. Smh. 😢
@@jamesallen4050 haha, first of all: it's not Comstar but Comcast rims on the bike. Secondly: both are classic Honda rims from the 70s and 80s, and they are gorgeous 🤩🤩🤩
❤
Typical of the current generation - badly ripping off previous generations and being a combination of smug about it and wholly unaware they’re not creating their own culture.
your shop is so organized and clean it makes what I am used to shame
Hehe, I like to keep my workspace tidy - probably a tiny bit above average 🤔
Underrated video. It's always nice to see someone applying mathematical symmetry (which exists in everything we consider beautiful in nature) into their design. Having good form has always contributed the most in making something look amazing imo
Thanks 🙏 I agree, and when exact symmetry is not possible or feasible the solution is often to balance the elements to give an impression of symmetry 😊
For me the flat line horizontal is the most important to make the bike look right, that's why a lot of modern bikes with trellis frames are not suitable as the frame slopes upwards around the fuel tank and therefore it's impossible to make the tank sit flat. Considering the shape of your tank with the back sloping downwards it actually looks really good. Really nice job, I wish I had your welding skills. excellent video.
Thanks 👍 You are absolutely right. For newer bikes it's better to build something completely different, for example streetfighter style or modernizing the look.
Thinking back on how and why I modified my bike in the sixties. Made it lighter, tuned engine and improved ergonomics for high speed riding. But also keep it legal for road use. Except no heavy silencers, straight pipes. In the style of real road racers.
The Triumphs was mostly high speed city bikes with a more upright riders and higher handlebars. Rarely seen on the twisties, due to reliability issues.
Then I regarded the Manx Norton and the Velocette Thruxton as the most beautiful bikes ever made. The 7R boy racer was also good looking.
One thing I don't understand is the use of a single seat on a cafe racer. One reason going to a cafe was to find a girl for the evening. Short and light weight for better bike performance.
Looking at my Manx, it differs much from the angles you prefer. My other classic race bikes, the CB and the RDLC also differs. As does the Velo.
The old bikes had dry sump oil system and an oil tank. So the space behind the engine was occupied by carbs, filters, oil tank, battery and tool box. Giving different appearance.
Thanks for commenting 🙏 Getting feedback from those who actually were part of the "cafe racer movement" back in the 60s is rare, but very fun and interesting 😊 I guess the style is a bit different now than it was 60 years ago. Many trends are short lived, I think one of the most important reasons for the cafe racer style still exists and is relevant is because it has evolved and adapted to newer bikes. Have to agree, putting on a seat sounds stupid 😅
@@kihestadTry actually paying attention.
As a mechanic i nearly always refuse to work on these home builds.too many things going wrong with them.nice vid
I would guess the quality is not always top notch? 🫤
@@kihestad well,ppl don't know what they are doing.using many cheap parts,trying to be different in ways that are not logical,but the biggest mistake I've seen,is that many care how the bike looks,but not how I feels or rides.and many technical aspects,like wrong petcocks,don't calculate their reserve,and things like that
Hi! I have been following your videos on the CB400 for a while after I bought my own CB400 many years ago to do a similar project. I have never undertaken anything like this before and I would like to say your videos are a huge inspiration to me! I also have the brat/scrambler style in mind and I am going to base my project on a lot that you have done. To me your thought process, design iterations and fabrication explanations are beyond excellent and I only hope to follow in your great work!
From one CB400 brat/scrambler owner here in the UK! Thank you for all your amazing work! I cant wait to see it all finished!
It's just fantastic to hear my videos can be helpful 🙏 the CB400 is a great bike 🤩🤩 As you might have noticed I have taken a short break from my CB400 cafe racer project to get my Cagiva 750 Elefant sorted. I will continue the CB400 as soon as my Cagiva is sorted 🤞🤞🤞
Pretty good job! Only thing for me is the main horizontal bone line should be considered with the driver's weight. So the motorcycle alone should be a bit tail high head down, it is a typical sports/aggressive line and prevents the low tail/tilting back at driving cause of the driver's weight.
Thats an interesting thought. In a design process I guess it would be smart to not only design the bike based on a profile picture of the the motorcycle only, but also have a picture with the intended rider as well 🤔
Am I correct in believing the original cafe racers were not designed, it was euro punks pulling parts off their bikes for weight reduction?
You are absolutely correct! It all originated in the UK in the 60s by youths stripping down their fathers old motorcycle to make it go faster 😎 Today it's mostly about style, secondly you want it to sound good and lastly you want it to go decently fast and have good riding abilities 😊 If you want to go racing you really want a completely other type of bike than a cafe racer today 😏
As someone with my own cafe project waiting in the garage, I will estimate the reason most cafes of today are ugly is due to lack of skill or confidence to start the metalworking. 😅
Hehe, it's a learning curve for sure 😊
As someone who was riding in the UK in the 1960s I don’t recognise most of the objects people seek to pass off as ‘cafe racers’ these days. The ‘proper’ cafe racers were styled to look like (and sometimes go like) bikes that were used in short-circuit track racing. So engines were often tuned, footrests were rear-set, handlebars were clip-ons, gear-change often reversed by turning the gear-pedal ‘back-to-front’ to match the footrests. The tank would often be a larger than standard (usually alloy) number that the rider could lay down on when ‘doing the ton’. Generally people wouldn’t play with wheel or tyre sizes, and that big ugly fat front wheel and tyre on modern efforts just looks WRONG, as it also does on so-called ‘scramblers’. My brother-in-law built and raced scramblers and they had BSA frames for strength, Triumph 500cc engines for lightweight power, and usually Norton Roadholder forks for control. And an 18”-21” wheel combination because that worked. The modern (and to my eyes) ugly offerings are just exercises in styling which probably handle like camels and are almost unridable and certainly poor efforts on a race track or a scrambles (motocross) course. So who cares where the lines go or meet up if the bike is not useable? Might as well be a ‘chopper’ (another useless styling exercise).
Times has definitely changed 😌I don't think many people look at cafe racers as racing motorcycles any more, today you would select a completely different kind of bike if you want to go fast. At least for me a cafe racer is mostly about design and nostalgia 😊
Looks good, glad I found this. Drop the front forks 25mm or so up into the yoke.
I have already lowered the front fork 35mm internally, cannot drop it into the yoke on this bike because it crashes with the handlebar. I want to have some clearance from the wheels on this bike since it's a cafe racer hybrid scrambler build, I'd rather have talker rear shocks if needed to get it in level.
@@kihestad . Then my idea will not work, a taller rear is the way.👍
CLEAN i think is best way to compliment your bike .... as for tank placement , different or not , it works ! Very nice swoop with the elevated rear portion of tank ... cant wait to see where you hide the charging / electronic system
@@monokheros5373 Thanks 🙏 I have planned to make my own very slim litium battery to keep under the seat, hopefully I am able to put all the wiring and electrical components very flat an hidden under the seat or the tank 🤞 time will show 😬😁
13:04 I like it! Except wheels size - one of the advantages of spokes is it’s not too hard to relace the rear and put on a new rim to match the front, if the swing arm allows it. Thank you for the video, very informative. Also, your workshop is immaculate 😂
Thanks 🙏 New spoked rims would have been nice 😊
I thoroughly agree there’s a lot of ill thought out ad-hoc abominations out there. In Britain it started with those horrific streetfighter ar§€ up mongrels.
Those principles are sound guidelines to this eye.
Your problem is that tank & the lower edge which was designed to flow into a side cover. I really think your build needs to integrate something here too, running back up to the seat base.
A pleasure to watch.
Thanks for the positive feedback! 🙏 The original tank on my bike definitely presents a challenge. I considered replacing it with a classic Honda tank or an aftermarket option, but ultimately decided to keep the original for both cost reson and because I wanted to preserve most of the bike's original signature elements (that also includes the rims). By using oposite shaped lines on the tank decals I try to visually balance the curves. Additionally, I've made the seat hoop's angle to align with the tank's bend, creating hopefully a cohesive look. Time will show if these design choises is enough to justify keeping the bent lower edge on the tank🤞
I believe this is a well-intentioned video, but if you follow these "principles" too rigidly they lead to very formulaic builds with little character. These "principles" are merely suggestions; you can break them and still have a beautiful, tasteful design. We remember the builds that have something unique about them, not the me-too builds.
Absolutely right, the author behind the design guide also says that this is not exact rules but just guidelines and it's up to each builder to make variations. You cannot look away from all design guidelines though, then it's no longer a cafe racer
Thank you. I am wanting to get a Bott frame for my Buell. And extend rear fender on the swing arm so it don't spray water as much.
Buell is a vey interesting company, their motorcycles as well. Take care of the one you have, good luck improving it 👍
Great solution for the tank mount, I'm doing something similar. I want to get the line of the tank before it dips down to be level with the seat subframe
Sounds like a good plan!
Very good design the only problem for me and it is a big one, the knobby tire they belong to a moto cross not a Cafe Racer or Street Tracker.
Yes, I know these tires are not for everyone. Remember I am building a "hybrid" cafe racer / scrambler, so I am breaking some of the rules with my build. The motorcycle will be used mostly for short trips to the city centre, but also for trips to the beach and on gravel roads. It's like the opposite of having an adventure bike with street tires for driving in asphalt only 😊
@@kihestadThere’s no such thing.
This design looks pretty good so far. The lines look clean and even.
Of course, I say this from an artist's perspective. Good work !
@@Eliel7230 Thanks 🙏 Whats better than getting a feedback like this from an artist's perspective 🤩🤩🤩
Glad to see your back on it my friend,cat what to hear what that exhaust sounds like 👍
Hehe, I am curious about that myself as well 😊 I have to get my Cagiva fixed first, but that's not that big of a project 🤞
Keen to see the engine and frame cleaned up
Agree, but there are some other tasks that come first. The next job is to fit the rear fender, then make the seat tray and the seat. I want to do all the wiring and mount all kinds of small stuff to make sure I can remove unnecessary brackets and add new ones where needed. Then comes the fun getting it cleaned up 🤩
I can only say i like the look's of the bike now, well done👍🏻🔥
@@joyxavier1069 Thanks 🙏
May I know what type of welding are you using? I love the way how precise and neat it is :)
I have been MIG welding up until the last few months, all work on my cafe racer is done using it (not all welds are very pretty though) I have recently bought a Magma TIG welder from Toolfarm here in Norway, I hope with practice that can be even better than MIG
@@kihestad thank you. I really thought stick welding would be enough for motorcycles since it is very easy to use. Well, looks like time to invest TIG/MIG welding and learn to use it hehe😅😅
This is coming out amazing! Love the new subframe. The CB definitely needed a straight anchor point from the subframe instead of the original curved one. I saw many people keeping that, and it really killed the vibe of the bike. Will the electrical box under the seat extend all the way to the end? Mine is very similar (a 1984 450), but the box is smaller and deeper, protruding a little too much from the side view. Currently, my bike is totally disassembled to fix a valve that broke off and dropped inside the engine 🤦♂. Hope to get it back on the road soon. Good luck with the rest of your build, and keep the videos flowing!
I absolutely agree, keeping the original frame and try to work around it (like I tried on my version 1.0) does not really work 😌 I plan to make the tray under the seat just go a tiny bit lower than the bottom of the seat hoop, but having 45 degree angels on the side walls so you cannot see it from "above". I plan to make my own lithium battery based on 18650 batteries, it will be very slim and should fit in a slim seat tray. The seat tray will go from the tank and to the upswing at the rear of the seat hoop.
Oooh, a broken valve does not sound good 🫤Thanks for watching and commenting, and good luck with your build as well! 👍👍
Excellent design and nice lines. Pardon me if you mentioned it already in the video, but what model Honda fuel tank did you use? I love that one.
Thanks 😊 The tank is the original to this bike, it's a Honda CB400N super dream
Great video. Through and precise. Nice!
Glad you enjoyed it! 🙏
So beautiful. I have a old Bashan Explode 250, the engine is still running strong. Is it possible to build a Cafe Racer from a old dirtbike?
@@SerweeFitness perhaps it's even better to restore it? Sounds like a rare bike...
@@SerweeFitness ahh, ok - googled the bike.. it's probably ok to customize it 😁
I didn't know about these design princeples, but I'm very happy that I do now. Thank you for sharing. I just purchased a 1976 CB550 Four Supersport that has already had some work done to it and I would like to change it. Luckily, I know exactly what to fix now! I love that motorcycle lift you have, did you buy this or make it?
Ahh, that's the exact same model and make I had as my first 'heavy' motorcycle 🤩 it's the one with 4-1 exhaust isn't it? That is a great looking bike!
I bought the lift table, but I have modified it slightly. I have made a couple of videos about it...
Leave it standard. Do not ruin it.
Leave it standard. Do not ruin it.
This is a very cool design study! I am a bit of a sucker for reverse Comstars, excellent bike. Completely agree, a bit of extra shock height is needed in the rear. Cheers, from the American Northeast.
The reverse Comstars (I think Honda called them Comcast) is very cool. They are a bit wider than the older Comstars, and I like that they have sharper "edges" compared to the comstarts 😊
Again an excellent & enjoyable video on multiple levels (pun intended). Satisfying seeing it come together.
Also fun to realise how I seem to have used principles that I 'grabbed from the air' which were actually written down by kind Mr Trelogan :D
Happy to hear you enjoyed the video 😊 By just copying or being inspired from others build, you will probably implement most of the guidelines. Nice to have a systematic summary of them though, and it makes you even more aware of them and why they are there 😊
Gorgeous gold rims
@@fivefigga4038 yeah, it's almost a pity to paint them white 😔 but, I have another bike with gold rims, can't have two of the same 😊
How about scrambler build? Do you have a vid how t build one ??
I don't have a video for that unfortunately, but it's not that different. Many of the design guides are the same, except typically you route the exhaust higher to get better ground clearance, and you want higher handlebars for different driving position (like I did on my bike) and you might want higher clearance from wheels to fender as well, and perhaps even longer shocks and an overall taller bike.
I agree with all the guidelines, The only thing would like to see added would be the style of wheels. Spokes prefered or something that looks period correct
That's true, the first rule : "the foundation" says the wheels should be fairly similar in size. No guidelines beside that. The wheels are quite important and a big part of the visual appearance, it could absolutely be a separate guideline!
ive seen many cafe racers extending their swing arm to make the bike looks good in proportion, i am planning to do it mainly because i wanna lower the bike, but i am hesistant since cafe racers doesnt have that huge gaps in the inner part of rear tire, should i just lover the rear and front by changing the shocks or just extend my swingarm?
Are u sure about that? Extending the length of the swing arm to push the rear wheel further back is a very rare mod if u ask me. For a dragster bike, ok. Not for a cafe racer.
@@kihestad so should i just get a shorter rear shocks?
@@akhinyt1168 replacing the rear shock can work, just make sure it's within what the swing arm can cope with 😊
@@kihestad ohh okay, thanks man ride safe🤟
@@akhinyt1168 I think whats most common is to neither change the rear shocks or swingarm, rather modify the seat hoop for where to put on the seat. You can normally lower the seat and seat hoop, but keep the suspension as original.
Bone line did improve a lot! And the back needs to go up a bit and/or the front lower in my opinion. But he.. its your design so do what you like! I will put my own caferacer against the principals, never even knew they excisted.
Yep, it's a bit tall at the front and/or low at the rear to be a 100% cafe racer type. But I am not really aiming for that, this one is supposed to be a tiny bit scrambler-ish 😊 I think it will be a bit better with taller rear shocks / raised lower mounts.
What lift table/storage is that. That thing is awesome
I am quite satisfied with it, I wanted originally a scissor lift but they are too expensive for my budget. This one was very affordable, at least when I bought it (on sale). I made a video about it here: th-cam.com/video/H4oMGfEGHKc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=MDHvpav4Lb3CHR5V
What brand lift table are you using?
It's bought here in Norway from the warehouse: JULA. It's very common to find under different names, I know in the US you can buy it from Harbour Freight.
Great accent, shows the work, not a lot of cut scenes. Subscribed! :)
Glad you liked it and thanks for the sub! I am trying to minimize the use of cut scenes, I don't like them either. It requires more work though: more planning, practicing and B-roll footage. Trying to improve each video, but sometimes easy solutions are made in the edit just to get done 🥴
Those wheel and green tank are spectacular
Thanks for the tips! 👍
One thing I cannot stand with cafe's is the great triangle of nothingness under the seat. Oh, it looks awful!
I think on your bike, you can tie in the odd shape of the back of the tank to the seat and/or some sort of side panels. Also, you really should run an up pipe on a scrambler.
@@Jeekinz One of the goals with the cafe racer was to get it as lightweight as possible, removing side panels, the heavy battery and the air filter box saves weight. The empty space left behind is also a visual proof for a successful weight reduction 😁
@@kihestad Look at the thumbnail pic to Racer TV 2023 20 best and tell me that side panels don't look better. Those parts you mentioned barely weigh anything and bikes run better with air boxes. That's why they are there. If you want to save weight, stop building stuff out of steel. Use aluminum and carbon fiber, titanium hardware.
I’d like to see a scrambler version of this video.
I would guess some of the design principles would stay the same, but definitely not all. Higher handlebar, get more clearance to the ground, increase suspension/fork travel length, move exhaust higher up, lifting front fender, softer/bigger seat, and probably more ... 🤔
@@kihestad I just did a scrambler conversion on a Royal Enfield 650 and I’m still tweaking it. It’s not a full on custom but I can travel, camp and do gravel roads with it. It’d be fun to do a custom scrambler from a Japanese bike like what you started with.
Cool, Royal Enfield 650 as scrambler sounds like a perfect combo 😊
most important is to make something you are happy about not others .Ofcourse proportions are most important to make something eye catching ,apealing
That's true (unless you are building for selling it). However, some people don't have that much interest in the design part, but enjoy the mechanical part of the build. I hope some guidelines can at least be of help for some 😊 At least it has been for me, even though I thought I made a decent design job even before I learned about these principles, I can see now that my build is getting much better after I learned about this.
Great video, I enjoyed. I’ve subscribed for more ;😊
I also wouldn’t be shocked if you ended up being a serial killer. This was scarily meticulous and calculated. 😂
Thanks for the sub ❤️ I have had a break from working on my cafe racer the last half year to get my old adventure motorcycle done. Right now I am planning a small garage upgrade project, and then I'll be back working on the cafe racer project - too many projects, not enough free time🙄
Why did you go away from the mono shock?
I have never planned a mono shock on this build, and it's not a typical cafe racer thing - although it is possible. Bobbers typically use mono shock, but that is quite a different style
Tanks from the early 80's onward are often made to connect to the side panels. This makes them look weird without those pannels in place. Making a truly good looking build is not easy.
That's exactly how it was for this bike, the side panels continued where the weird bend is now. Without the side panel the bend is quite useless 😵💫
I was going to suggest that. Merging the new covers into the existing end of the tank. I like it so far, Is that a CM400T?
It's a CB400N from 1984
Looks great. Taller shocks in the back would look great
Thanks 😊 yes, agree about the shocks. Has not found any yet, but still searching
i think that's a really good tank bracket. keep up the good work!
That was good news! I hoped someone would approve it, so I did not have to redo it 😊
I thought the principles were good rule of thumb. Now when I see a design not working I can better identify why
Agree, I think it's a nice framework not only as a build guide, but also as reference if a build feels 'off' and you want to figure out what could be improved.
Hei! Digger videoene dine! Liker spesielt hvordan du programmerte en keyless system og diverse😄. Jeg anbefaler YSS schock, god kvalitet og Perfect oppgradering fra de originale med stort utvalg. Jeg har et spørsmål, er du med i norwegian cafe racer gruppen på fb? Vis ikke så ta en titt innom du vil😄 gleder meg til flere videoer!
Hey, skal sjekk ut YSS shocks - takk for tipset!👍er med i en del FB grupper, men ikke den norske tror jeg - skal sjekke.... 😊
I have a 2016 harley xg750 street. Blacked out model. Ive been wanting to modify it into a cafe racer. Was my whole intent on the purchase. Anyone have any recommends or advice on this???????? Not alot of info out there and even less mechanics that know anything of value about doing this.
Last shop I took it to they didn't even know what a cafe racer was and had no clue even about the model of bike I have. I had to walk back out the same door I entered......
Hehe, not knowing about cafe racers? Just stay away from that shop 😅 the author behind the guidelines actually made an article about making a cafe racer from a HD - check here: www.bikeexif.com/build-harley-cafe-racer
I don't understand modern Cafe racers, they orginated from having slow bikes wanting to go fast. The closest modern thing to cafe racer are the gsxr riders who strip their bikes down for track riding. I'm working on a kz1000 cafe racer, it needs to handle, it needs power and it needs to put the power down, those are my requirements for the bike. Those are the same requirements original cafe racers had. In my opinion looks shouldn't matter for cafe racers, sure they're beautiful but they're supposed to be fast and agile
Hi, you are not the only one with this opinion. Not sure if a correct answer exists: is it a design style, or is it a function (modify to go faster) 🤔
Take any old bike
Put a pair of clubmans on it
Done
In California alot of people will build a cafe as cheaply as possible and then ask $6k for it. By cafe I mean cut a few parts off. Add a nice seat and headlight ferring. It's sad because they take these classics and ruin them instead of making a nice cafe. Your build looks very nice.
Agree, better to keep the bike original than ruin it with a bad rebuild. If a classic motorcycle is in decent condition, I would recommend restoring it. If it's not a classic, and in poor condition, well then a cafe racer build is OK, but it has to be done right 😠😊
I have to think about the Vulcan 650S with that funny small windscreen and the owners who think that they have a "café" version. 😂😢😅😢
@@corneilcorneil hehe, the Vulcan us a very cool bike but it's more or less a bobber originally, quite some work to make a cafe racer out of it - but I have seen some impressive projects that has turned out great 😊
@@kihestad From the Vulcan S? Never saw a nice build. Kawa trows a plastic screen on a bike and calls it the "cafe" version. For me, it is a Ninja with forward controls. 😝
The Vulcan S is even no real Vulcan, that are (mostly) V twin cruisers
Everything else is quite nice, but I couldn't live with that tank bottom line. It should be straight as possible. It's angled in too many directions. I would personally try to modify tank, which would be a pain or consider some different tank. Something in veins of Bonneville, though don't know if dimensions are even close to fitting on that. But anyway, more "classic" older style fuel tank.
To me problem exactly is that those shapes scream "this is shaped for fairing to continue" and it just doesn't cut it for me.
Yea, this tank will never be perfect if the aim is to get a true old school cafe racer style 😌 I have however decided to keep it as is, trying to make it a feature instead of a flaw 😬 By having parallel lines with the upswing on the seat hoop and "reverse curves" on the tank decals I hope it will look OK. At least it's some kind of unique design, and some kind of tribute to the original bike.
@@kihestad Sure it's option. And good one in regard of breaking the "rules". Imo too many stick to guideline X and make their builds fairly generic looking and losing a lot of personality going that route. Like virtually 95% of modern cars. Made with aerodynamics and trends in mind and they usually end up looking really boring and similar. I personally like surprising ideas some have come up. Recently saw for sale 90's Kawasaki ZZR made to modern scrambler and military paint camo style with hand made leather bags and stuff. It looked really bizarre and unexpected in a very good way. Never ever thought that frame and bike like that would be suitable for such conversion.
Yes, that's a very good point! We don't want all bikes to look the same. It's nice to see experiments, some builds really surprise with unexpected and very good looking design 😊
What bugs me more is how terrible the performance usually get with these cafe racers. Fitting these CV carburettors with pod filters usually leads to a bad mixture and sloppy power curve negating any performance gained with the weightloss.
And after they're ridden in ground they end up for sale online with "just needs a carb clean" in the description
Haha, yes it's absolutely a challenge with these small podfilters. Jetting them to provide more fuel is possible, but for carbs made for laminar flow It's hard to get good performance using podfilters directly on the carb intake as it leads to turbulent flow (I think 🤔).
@@kihestadexactly, I've seen alot of solutions on these honda twins. blocking the wide end of the podfilter with some tape seems to work. placing the podfilters further away from the carbs seems to work better but doesn't look as good.
Personally I leave the stock airbox on my cb400t in combination of having a balance in the exhaust system. But yeah, that leaves me to deal with the awkward frame these bikes have.
A café racer had to be able to drive at least 100 mph. So all unnecessary parts were removed to reduce the weight. Installing lower handlebars to reduce air resistance. Give the engine more power. That is the principle of a cafe racer.
Proportion or appearance had nothing to do with it in the first place. Over time it has become a fashion concept... Appearance is more important than performance? It must be period related! A discussion between so-called purism and principle.
The idea of what a cafe racer should look like is not what makes it a cafe racer.
@patrickloots7610 originally it was the all about performance, today you would choose another bike if you just want to go fast 😎
I totally agree with your comments regarding the design concept, a majority of cafe racers look so wrong and not in proportion. Yes it`s a personal thing, but there are so many ugly cafe racers out there.
Yea, I am afraid I have to agree 😞
Don't know..
I mean.. interesting video but I think that Cafè Racer Bikes are form of art without any rule to follow.
What you like may be somebody else doesn't.
@@wtfftw24 I have to disagree. For example: if I put on long front forks, a high handlebar, lower the seat and put on a small fat rear tyre on my bike: then I have built a chopper, not a cafe racer at all. The reason we can distinguish between different types / styles of motorcycles is because they are built using a set of 'rules' that makes it look a certain way.
@@kihestad yes of course but you made an extreme example.
I have been building Cafè for about 10 years now and I still prefer not to have any rule to follow but do what I like or my customer likes.
Btw thanks for your feedback and complement for your channel 👍
Ah, cool - I guess you have quite a lot of experience after 10 years of building cafe racers, a design guide is probably not needed at that point 😁 Instead of this being rules to follow, you can think of it as a collection design elements typically used on successful cafe racer builds. I would think we all get ideas, get inspired, and become influenced by looking at other projects. This design guide is really just that put in system 😊
0:58 You forgot something. Money💵
I'm 17 trying to build my own cafe racer, without all the skills and tools that you have. And I cant take a risk if it ends in financial loss
@@matthewhattia7091 Hey, 17 and already working on your own cafe racer project - that's just fantastic 👍🤩 You have plenty of time to learn, practice and save up money to buy tools and parts. Take your time and just do one improvement at a time. Then put all parts back on, and you have a usable bike thats a bit better than before, and also most likely worth a bit more. Glhf! 😊
Whats the song at 10:00?
It's linked in the description, from Upbeat: "Getaway" by D0d
@@kihestad mb, ty
@@Ash-bx6kq np 😊
A funny thing is that for me a bike can never be captured on camera as you see it in real life, even the ugly ones look better 🤔
I have to agree, not sure why though 😏
you asked for comments how it looks and i feel compelled to say that it does not correspond to my idea of a well-made motorcycle, neither visually nor in terms of craftsmanship. and by the way: where you learned that weird technique of bending tubes? it´s just horrible.
This is a very common way to make a second bend in a new direction 'over' or very close to an existing bend, or when making a bend close to the end of the pipe. In these situations regular bending machine does not work. I guess you're not a builder yourself, so it's totally understandable you did not know that, but it's never to late to learn 😊👍
@@kihestad i have been customizing motorcycles for 30 years and have to do this in accordance with the german tüv regulations in order to be allowed on the road at all. rebending by means of welded slots would be an immediate exclusion criterion. i had to build and weld the rear section of my vfr completely from 22x2mm precision tube. (you can see it on my channel) but this is only possible if you have a welding certificate. a rear section like yours would have to be bent to fit from a single piece of tube. without subsequent modifications. if necessary, you could correct fine details with heat spots.
It sounds like your VFR is getting good care! (It's a great bike 🤩) Well done 👍
I really like the wheels where to get
The wheels are the standard on this bike, called Comcast 🤩
@@kihestad thanks mate
Hope you arent keeping the scrambler tyres on it
Yes, this is a scrambler-brat-cafe racer hybrid 😝 I am mixing and matching the different styles to my liking. I am not putting on clip-on handlebars either. It's not exactly suitable to go off-road in very rough terrain, but it should be possible to take it on gravel roads or a trip to the beach 😎
You are so off point here. Cafe Racers were British bikes ((Triumph, Norton, BSA) made to be lighter and faster between the cafe, up to an agreed point to turn around and head back again before the song on the jukebox finished. They were never Hondas or BMWs. And never had knobbly tyres. Forget about the correct angles of the frame and all that nonsense. It is a Brit bike with clip ons. End of...
I am well aware of the origin of the cafe racer trend, but it has evolved since then. It was all about going fast back in the 60s, nowadays it’s the style that matters. If you want to go fast we have better bikes for that today 😊
It’s alotta ruffled feathers in the comments. Sounds like 1 of 3 things is happening: 1. Your old and regret never achieving a traditional cafe racer 2. You USED TO build these and don’t feel you got your “deserved recognition “ 3. You just old and grumpy and don’t want to admit realizing you were wrong for not teaching more who asked for your expertise
Why else would you have clicked on this video in the first place 🤔
Hehe, well some are very passionate and have some strong opinions. It must be allowed to thing what you think, as long as you say it with respect for others - that might think differently.
Hi and thanks! I have a question about clip ons and the height of the front forks. The front of my bike is too high. Will clip ons be enough to create a lower, sportier and straighter line between the rear end and the front end? Or, do I also have to push the forks up through the tripple tree and thereby lower the front end? That is, can clip ons create the 'impression' of a lower front end - even though it is in fact not lowered?
Hi, what bike are you rebuilding? I think most bikes look best when the front fork is shortened internally like this: th-cam.com/video/18ugcgtkrxY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=pmhPxmp1qSJrdjhS
Lowering it through the triple tree is also possible of course, but not my favorite way of doing it 😉
If the front is high, or there is a big gap between the front of the engine to the front wheel, just putting on clip-ons might not be enough to get the true cafe racer look
No rules, rule !
Is that rule number one? 😬
...or maybe they don't care what you or any other thinks?
Who are they? 🤔
Looking good!
👍
Love it!
Glad to hear that 😊
Should be called cafe cruisers or something as theres nothing racer about them now. Bikes were created to be all function, and they are now all form.
That is actually very true 😁
@@kihestad Choppers are the same - they were originally chopped to go faster and they became more about looks. Nothing wrong with it - just a different thing now. In all honesty, you can't create a racer out of a regular bike without changing 90% of it = modern sport bikes are too good.
I think you are spot on. Typically the ones being critical to these design guidelines are referring back to how it was originally back in the 60s - it was all about going fast, building a lightweight racer motorcycle was the goal. How it looked was not important at all. Let's just say: times have changed 🥴😁
In so many cases... wheels...
wheels what? 🫤
There is only one way to not make an ugly cafe racer... and that's to not build a cafe racer 🤷♂️
Hehe, but u miss out on all the fun 😊
Knobby tires on a road bike.
I know, it does not make sense 😅
cambiar el tanque.
The tank is not the classic cafe racer type, I have decided not to swap it though. Trying to keep some of the bike's original look to see if it can work out 🤞
Nice brat bike. But not a cafe racer. English cafe racers (yes, we invented them) were conversions of the "best bike the owner could afford" into a racer-like bike to make it look and feel faster when you sling your leg over it even if it never sees a race track in its life. Clip-ons and rear-set footrests are an absolutely integral part of the design, just as wide wheels and a lowered stance are for custom fast cars.This looks like a scrambler. Its like building a Land Rover and calling it as fast car. Its not, even if it goes fast. Look how a bike like a Triton looks - and how its ruined when an old man buys it and takes off the clip-ons.
@@zenscapeUKmedia I do agree, almost 😳 My bike build is as I mentioned a "hybrid" - it's not a pure cafe racer or a brat or a scrambler, but a mix. It's probably closest to a brat style.
look. respect to your craft and all, but f'ck me, let a person build it however they like lol.
almost all of the time, its not because the person doesn't have the vision, its because they don't have the skill or maybe they don't know how to tackle specific tasks due to a lack of specific experience or equipment.
then some gatekeeping design expert asshole tells them its ugly and doesn't follow rules and that only goes to knock motivation out of young people who initially have a lot of enthusiasm.
one thing I've learnt over the years is to let a person do whatever they want. More often than not, they'll end up with similar opinions as you anyway through trial and error so calling their work ugly if it doesn't follow rules doesn't really help their process.
I am glad you are defending those who ended up with a less successful result. I think however nobody wants their build to end up looking ugly, and hopefully knowing about these guidelines will help those who might not really know how to do it in the first place... 🤔
@@kihestad yeah, no doubt. Even though it may have looked like it, its not a jab at you per se, more of the motorcycle community as a whole who enjoy to belittle others because their bike's styling may not conform to what's 'proper' or 'correct'.
Everyone does it, even I'm guilty of it if my mood is off, lol.
Why are so many ugly hair cuts around?
Beats me 🤔
@@kihestad 😀😀😀
I don't like customizations in general. I'm all for keeping any vehicle in the original state. But the cafe-racer is in top of the worst things to do. It will most certainly be ugly, no matter what you do. Stop ruining vehicles. No, I didn't watch the video. There's no point.
@@fveggerby Well, it's a bit too late to stop now, most of the build is already done - if you had seen the video you would have known 😊
Get abetter tank this one is ugly
It's a budget build, a new tank is too expensive for me 😏
Ja ich frage mich auch warum dein Cafe Racer so hässlich ist Tank Farbe und die falschen Reifen und der falsche Lenker😂😂😂😂😂
It's an acquired taste, not for everyone 😊
Do you have smaller fuel tank?
@@IGustiNgurahBagusAriHerm-xv4vc I'll just stick to the original for this one
@@kihestad oh, your video it Was original, I was Did to custom Culture. 😊
This was such an incredible video. So much details and yet you manage to put in a good story around the rules of what a cafe racers is all about. I'm really impressed how well you change between the angles, the camera work, audio everything is on par. Well done mr. Hestad. 🤌🏻🎥
Thanks bro, glad to get your approval - tried my best to combine two topics this time: a bit design theory and real life usage of it - glad to hear you thought it worked out 🤩🙏
A café racer had to be able to drive at least 100 mph. So all unnecessary parts were removed to reduce the weight. Installing lower handlebars to reduce air resistance. Give the engine more power. That is the principle of a cafe racer.
Proportion or appearance had nothing to do with it in the first place. Over time it has become a fashion concept... Appearance is more important than performance? It must be period related! A discussion between so-called purism and principle.
The idea of what a cafe racer should look like is not what makes it a cafe racer.
Today, if you want to go fast, you can a get much "better" newer bikes. Just pick up a racer oriented mc from the 90s or later, and you outperform any cafe racer 😎 The original idea behind cafe racers was to get stock bikes from the 60s to go faster, nowadays it's all about style (If you ask me)