Love your video, really good instruction. The only issue on my end is your statement about is it really useful, that preconditioning is very good to have in climates such in Canada. We get -30C temperature during winter and even -40 in the worst times, so this becomes a very good thing to have before we leave for work or drive the kids to school. It defrosts the windshield ect so for us.. It's a darn necessity LMAO! But really, your vid was great. Gave it a thumbs up, I'd put in 5/5 stars if they had a grading type of levels on youtube instead of a thumbs up and down. Keep it going sir!
Nigel, good point well made, seems a no brainer to me. Just leave at 8.57 and defrost manually, less energy used and turn seats and rear defrost on manually.
Hi Nigel, thank you for your very informative videos which I have enjoyed and influenced my decision to buy a Kona originally scheduled for a September delivery I am collecting in just two weeks :)
Another great video Nigel! I think your suspicions are probably correct for the UK. However, for colder climates, like Canada, it would likely take that long on a cold morning to heat the car & battery pack if it's parked outside. Having the option of changing the amount of pre-conditioning time would make the Kona a more "global" car.
Great experiment and a surprising result. Your results showing a difference of 3mi, times that by seven or even five and that’s near enough 5.8% - 8.2% of a full charge, (taking 258mi to be 100%).
Would be interesting to see how much power it takes for say 16°c preheat. May a mix of preheat and post heat (when you get in the car) is the way forward. Finding the sweet spot for maximum balance of energy usage. Keep up the good work. :)
The ultimate solution i think would be a good quality wooden garage with insulation on the inside. Pre-heat the car near the end of off peak. The three benefits of this are 1: you will use less electricity to pre heat the car as the insulated garage will come into play, and 2: you can still use the cheaper off peak electricity as the car will stay warmer longer in the insulated garage.. So 3: you can sign up to a BEV / offpeak tariff both saving money and being more community and environmentally spirited by not sucking peak time juice.
I pre-condition my ev (BMW i3 22kw) from its battery. Although it starts the process 30 minutes before you set off. I find that if you take this in to account then just enter a time 15 minutes later than when you want to leave. That way you can interrupt and leave in the car while only half way through the cycle, so using less energy. At least this way its a lot easier than having to get the app out every morning to pre-condition. I only use the app when I'm out and about and know I need to leave in my car in 10 minutes time to go home.
My i3 33kWh ev takes for 20 min precondition from its battery about 2,5% = 0,73kWh battery capacity. That means about 4 km range loss in the city. Ambient temperature 5°C. Often I use precondition 10min from its battery before I start, because it's more efficient due to heat pumpe push. The heat pump is not so efficient at lower speed especially in the city.
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We have a saying in my sw development team... "that is two inches of code". This should not be a hard choice for the user, instead, a very simple sw update should let us users select if, when, how many minutes beforehand, and wether to have to be connected or not to the grid. Thanks for the video, Diego.
It pains me as software developer and IT technician to see obvious lines of code missing in things like Satnav and car systems, whilst they waste an entire page of data and options on a picture of how much co2 we've saved. Criminal neglect
@@EVPuzzle There is also the 'not being used as intended'. As someone mentioned, you can set the preheat 5 minutes before departure. The extra 25 min are making sure the car is still warm if you slept in
Our Peak tariff is active when we need to leave in the mornings se so we don't precondition while plugged in. We have a garage so deicing is not an issue. We do use camper mode in the summer to keep the AC on while we run errands. Summers here in North Carolina are very hot and it only cost a small amount of range to have a comfortable cabin when we get in after stopping for groceries etc. We have the 100kWh battery on our X so we use it.
I guess the preconditioning take more energy because it heats up the car, THEN KEEPS IT Warm for upto 30mins. You might me better off timing it so that you start your journey 5/10mins into the pre conditioning.
Yesterday on the Belgian Kia site is the folder publishers of the eNiro. 2 versions (must & more) and when I look to the more version it is mentionned that version has a timer controlled battery pack heater. That van explain why there is more energy used in timer mode instead of the defrosting mode.
The Kia wording is different to the Hyundai wording regarding preconditioning. It does seem to imply battery warming too in the Kia but the wording isn't clear as no parameters are mentioned. I wouldn't presume one way or the other based on what I've read and been told so far
Happy new year Nigel :) As you said, the HV battery is "on".. I'm pretty sure heatpump and PTC runs on DC (not AC from the wall), so the power comes from the battery no matter plugged in or not. So the battery is charging and discharging at the same time, the charger simply tries to keep the battery at the same level. If you tried something different, you might see lower number on GOM, either charge on schuko, precharge to 100% or with the zappi and PV's you could set it to only charge from PV I guess (more power out than in). The preheat did take a lot of power (both kW and kWh), that leads me to believe it only runs PTC when preheating, just like the old Leaf does. For you in UK, yeah I would agree it's pretty much just a gimmick, especially since it has to be plugged in. I've got app, I never preheat when around 0C or above, the car gets so quickly warm anyways that I really don't see the point. I think that if you are so fragile that you can't get into a "cold" car in +2C, you really shouldn't be moving outside during wintertime.. But for us Norvegians, it feels cold to get in when say -10/-15C or below, but the worst part is the ice. Many times it's rock hard, maby with snow on top, and you really can't get it all off with a scraper or it's really hard work. Many times you have rock hard ice on the inside as well. When that cold it takes a lot more time to build heat in cabin, thus clearing windows. Going to the really cold places here (normally get down to -30C or colder), most people have engine and cabinheaters for their fossil cars as well (normally Defa). And many places schukos for preheating are fitted at workplaces, hotels etc. Well, there are very fragile people here too, when we get down to -15C, fossils are idling "everywhere" while the owner goes for a quick shopping. As for me, as long as the windows are ice free, I don't mind getting into a cold car.
Yep you're right there's no bypass for the AC power to power the Heater seperately. The car still powers it all exactly the same so yes the power bring drawn is just to top up the battery, which makes you wonder why Hyundai made is compulsory not optional. I've just said the same in another comment. Norway temps and smaller batteries means preconditioning more vital. Bigger battery means I don't care about warming the battery for better range
@@EVPuzzle yeah, I really don't understand why it has to be plugged in. You make a very good point about peak power. I believe it will be important that most EV's charge when the owners charge themself, normally during night. When it has to be plugged in, and it (all EV's) draw power from the grid when preheating, maby the ICE-fans eventually will be correct and the grid will collaps if we all preheat for 30 min while making coffee and running kettle for tea.. On a longer trip, I don't believe a warm vs cold battery will give very much extra range, but it sure gives quicker charging and more regen.
We can but hope that the energy companies implement a solution to resolve the peak demand. It's an industry standard method of planning for capacity and performance. You target the peak and focus effort there first, where the greatest impact can be made. It's nice to know if you want extra range you can charge just before leaving and help BUT by how much does 7kw charging warm the battery? I'd love to know
@@EVPuzzle I believe in smart EV-chargers, maby V2H/V2G, but at least for them to shut of power when high demand. Then my question is, does the Kona just need the plug connected for preheat, or does it have to recieve power..? I can't check 7kW, as my old Leaf only supports 3.6kW. Leafspy shows batterytemp, as far as I remember the temp went up max 2C after 2-4 hours on 16A. At 10A I believe I didn't see any difference at all. But I can do a recheck later and come back to you with the results ;) Anyway, it's really not a whole lot. You earlier did an efficiencytest. I believe you ended up at 90%? So 10%, or 700 watt should go to heat, some of that is heat in battery.. It takes some time to heat up 300 kg (?) battery with 700 watts... And even longer on 10/16A (200-300 watt).
And then I just realised something.. In the Leaf there is a coolingsystem, which I believe cooles the inverter, motor and charger. So increase in batterytemp is purely from internal resistance. While the Kona has watercooled battery, right? And if that coolant is shared between motor, inverter, charger and battery, you'll have increase in batterytemp from internal resistance AND heatloss in the charger...
Thanks for good explanation. Now, I know how this feature works. Honestly I don't use preconditioning. I start driving and warm up - it takes a view minutes only. The heating system of the kona is pretty good!
It would seem preconditioning is not needed as much in a car with heated seats, heated steering wheel and a large battery. In my 20kWh Renault Zoe 0.94kWh is a significant proportion of the battery capacity, and therefore range. I also don't have heated seats or steering wheel so I find preconditioning is useful. In a colder climate, like Norway it would also be very useful and would need to be a significant period of time. What you say about using the grid at peak times is valid, especially if you have a night time tariff. Interesting stuff, Thanks
Happy new year too and a good health. I'm thinking when driving alone I don't see an advantage because I'd like to use drivers only button. But when you compare it with defrosting you can't measure the heatpumps energy it takes from the battery, maybe also nearly the same amount. Or when preheating it heats up the battery too and defrosting all HP heat energy can be used for defrosting only.
The reason people use pre heating on the leaf is that you can also use it when you’re out and about, it’s nice coming back to a nice warm car👌 I wouldn’t buy an ev without an app, its one of the best features 🤗
Happy New Year! You purchase wisely. This care deserve closed garage-make one. Wonderful video. The car sure will be a game changer. Probably you know, but the level of the HUD display is possible to be moved higher or lower, if your seat is regulated lower or higher. i.e, the HUD level visually is not "frozen" and it is possible to be regulated. My humble opinion is to preheat some time before you go into the car. It is good for the car.
In the Old Days - 1960 - a 3kW electric heater warmed a room in 15 minutes. I still use that technique to warm my Man Cave (aka the (detached) Garage). On a cold and frosty morning I warm up my Nissan Leaf (using grid energy) via Nissan EV application. Works a treat. 3kW for 15 minutes = 0.75kW. Somehow, I think I may have got the equations wrong. Please advise.
Hi Nigel, would it be possible for you to make a video on all the energy efficiencies you’ve discovered over the past months? For example, using seat heater rather than heater/heat pump, what temp or fan speeds use least energy. Rather than viewers having to view all the various videos and then remember them, just a quick condensed episode letting us know the best settings to minimise ancillary energy use, thus maximising range. Cheers
Well, I have an old 24kWh Leaf. It has an app as you probably know and I think it works well . There is a timer (on the app) too but it seems a bit of a faff, so it’s easiest just to pre heat with the app 5 minutes before you want to set off.
Happy New Year Nigel. I have had my Leaf for 2.5 years with the pre-heat app and probably used it about 3 or 4 times before I got fed up with it. You have to find the app and load it up. Then log in (it doesn't remember you). Then wait a minute or so for it to sort itself out and actual allow you to start the car heater. It's not worth the effort. It is much less hassle to walk 10 paces outside and turn it on manually. It will take longer to heat the whole car than just defrost the windscreen. Personally I prefer to heat the car from the battery because I often charge up for free from my roof PV panels. DTK = 3 days (Days To Kona)
happy new year. In your video you talk about preconditioning and preheating. Is warming the battery to an ideal temperature for optimal use part of the preconditioning? If so does a shorter predconditioning with the main objective of preheating the car mean a loss in efficiency and health of the battery? Bjorn Nijland regularly talks about the importance of preconditioning/preheating in terms of efficiency of the battery. Not sure if the health of the battery decreases signtificantly over time when its less predconditioned more often to optimal operating temperatures over time.
No battery warming is not part of preconditioning. It's handled seperately by the BMS as needed. You don't have to worry about it. Smaller batteries and cold weather are another story in Norway
Hello Nigel, very good video again. Here in Holland the same issue. Working a business from home the pre-conditioning setting in advanced is good but not perfect for people with a not standard job. Every day is different. No standard leaving the home office here. So an app to start the heating, heated seats and stearing wheel 10 minutes in advance off leaving for an appointment would be more economic.
I have been told by my local dealership that the software/interface should already be avail/build in for the Kona but that the app is still in development. No clue if it is true though. I will be waiting some more Months until my ordered Kona will be delivered to find out......
I was led to believe that in cold weather preconditioning helps battery management and prolongs life. Also If batteries are preconditioned would they not give better range once you have set off? Are you relying too much on the GOM to know the battery temperature? Would a cold start battery not lose range quicker?
Yes a cold start battery would impact range, of course but so far to my knowledge only winter mode specifically warms the battery and only when specific extreme temperatures are met, as per my video on winter mode. Presumptions are currently being made that charging before you depart pre warms the battery also. Preconditioning the interior does not necessarily precondition the battery also but may have an effect. I don't know for sure....yet. The high voltage battery is warmed as needed by the systems that manage the battery not for ultimate range but for preservation of battery life. The inner workings and specifics are something I'm currently getting to grips with the help from Hyundai. Hope this helps
Hi Nigel. I’ve definitely seen higher initial miles/kWh after a scheduled preheat, so battery looks like its warmed. Shame we can’t check. Might be worth trying to comparing the difference, if possible. You can also enable rear window/side mirror in the preheat settings.
I've started building test data for that exact scenario. Just need some consistency in the weather. The problem is 3 miles of range is quite a lot to gain back from a warmer battery. I've been wondering if driving carefully in cold weather just delays battery warming up too. On my colder long trips I notice miles/kWh doesnt increase much for first 30 miles. I almost wonder if driving quick for a few miles might help
Enable the button next to the temperature setting. Though I need to double check since its icon is for the front screen option but I’m sure the rear window and side mirrors were clear.
I always precondition the ampera in this weather, 2x 10 minute cycles. Uses about 1kWh, off the grid because with a 10kWh pack, that would really hurt range.
Interesting that the car seems to pull so much power during preconditioning. Is it doing some battery pack warming too? I suppose the answer might be simply to interrupt the timed preconditioning after 5 minutes if that is sufficient to warm the cabin. Yes. Pity about the no app situation.
Yeah it's just an overkill. 5 mins should be enough in reality can we really judge being ready that precisely. For me the process is flawed. I think it works best for those who depart at identical times daily
The power you see on your smart meter, don't forget you get power losses in the charger itself converting from home AC to DC in the car. It'd be nice to have that on my iced up ICE car at the moment. ;-) Been a bit frosty here.
I would only bother with pre conditioning if I were going on a long journey and then so I got maximum range, otherwise I would tend to use the heated seat and steering wheel, especially as you’ve shown how quickly the car can defrost. That’s of course if I ever get to seeing my new 🚙 just one other thought did your preconditioning also precondition the battery as well.
Interesting point about pre-conditioning at peak times. It seems silly that they don't have seat, mirror and steering wheel heating in pre-conditioning, while I believe the Bolt and Model 3 have those features. I have a couple of questions for you, if you have a moment. Did I understand you correctly in that the Kona doesn't have any sort of LTE connection allowing access from an app? I thought Hyundai was going to have that in all of their 2019 models. Seems very odd for an electric car, especially one that will come standard with so many bells and whistles in most countries, to not have it :S. Are there different settings to pre-condition the interior and to pre-condition the battery? How would it perform if you just got in and drove in cold weather without pre-conditioning?
Do you have to be plugged in to use the preconditioning on the Kona? And there is also a utility/camping mode that you can turn on unplugged, maybe you can check how much power it will draw for a night on 20-21C on a fairly cold night?
Yes for the timer it needs to be plugged in. Yes there's a utility mode too.. Really don't think it's worth testing different temperatures degrees. It'll be marginally longer and marginally less energy. Next time I do it for real, I'll update
@@EVPuzzle Thank you for the reply. I was referring to the utility mode. Maybe you can leave the car outside with the utility on and check the consumption over night? I think Björn did a test, but his temperatures were colder outside in Norway. Having temperatures around 0 will be more representative. Thanks
No , it's front screen direction. Without it, heat is direct down and into the car rather than the windscreen. There's no option for rear heating on preconditioning
Hi If you have time and could answer a couple of question please about the Kona - well maybe more than a couple ! I am currently driving a Leaf 24kw. I want to go to a bigger battery car AND one with CCS charging so that cuts out the new leaf. Question s. When in Cruise control do you lose much milage? With the Leaf I notised the GOM drops quiet a bit. Guess it it due to the lower motor power? With the heater on can the Kona use any latent heat from the electric motors rather than direct from the heat pump? On the heater question what sort of drop on the GOM do you get with it on? I notice test review on a e-Niro there is some form of “cabin heater” facility if stuck in traffic on wanting to sleep in it? Does the Kona have this? Thanks for taking the time to read this. Paul
Lord Paul... Norfolk lord Paul,? If so I've seen your posts on broads sites / groups. Happy to reply on here or via email. My email is in the video description
Lord Paul, Question, Cruise control. No miles lost it seems very efficient. Nothing noticeable anyway Heater, yes Kona heAt pump utilises all available recoverable heat sources Heater on you lose about 6 to 8 miles on 80 to 100% charge Utility mode allows the main battery to run the cars internal systems such as heater without car actually being on. Effectively for long durations in the car. Haven't tried it yet though
Thank you for this Video. My English is not very good, so i can´t write down my opinion very good. I prefer the preconditioning. But my Kona will arrive at the earliest Oktober 2019. Greetings from Germany.
I have always assumed that the country will move to constrain "cheap" EV charging to those overnight times when wind-derived grid power was over-supplied and available for this purpose. As you say, preconditioning will always occur at the start of the business day so outside such periods and a bit of a problem for the grid. You mention the preconditioning "takes 30 mins" but since you set it to start at 9am for 9:30 departure, it seemed to me that this was a result of your own choices. Sub 1 kwhr is a lot less that I had expected to be used which leads me to a question - does preconditioning warm the traction battery or just the interior of the car ? I had expected preconditioning to achieve three purposes: to address screen defrosting, interior comfort and battery efficiency. Your comments show it only partially addresses the first two if the seats, wing mirrors and steering wheel are not warmed but what about the battery ? Lastly, it is generally understood that traction battery life is optimised when the storage charge rate is limited well below 100% which means we might benefit from adding charge at the last possible time before embarking on a long journey. Again this precludes taking grid power in the middle of the night so I am left assuming one might want a few kw hr of home-based battery to provide this power and thus time-shift the load on the grid.
Hello/Bonjour Nigel. I am expecting my Kona in the spring. I live in Ottawa, Canada. This feature wI'll be useful several days in the winter. We can get to minus 35 Celsius and have freezing rain. I have had to scrape thick ice from my windshield many times. The feature may also help precondition the battery pack which will help it stay healthy and not use more battery power because we started a cold pack. By the way... Does the Kona come with a granny cable and a second one for a 240 volt outlet?
Bonjour Shawn You'll definitely be testing the waterproof features then. I guess preconditioning helps let you in the car when temperatures are that low with thick ice. Yes UK cars came with 2 cables, type 2 and 13amp 3pin granny cable
Thanks for these tests, it shows there is still quite a bit of work to do to make this process “smart”. I agree that the pre conditioning timer probably is not worth the bother unless you are in a really cold climate. I’m thinking of getting a smart charger that can charge the Kona with an app but I assume that it can’t communicate with the Kona in any way. Is this correct?
Happy New Year! Interesting. I simply put the car in the garage for frost free safe visibility. You seem to have a garage? Warning. I have looked at different energy tariffs for EV and have found that you usually have to take dual fuel and the gas tariff costs several hundred pounds more a year than ordinary suppliers dual fuel tariffs. Good point about pre-heat or not. Cheers.
I miss using a garage. Just don't have the space yet and it's not a great positioned garage. One day. I used to laugh at people scraping as I've always used a garage until recently
Agree about the energy use at peak time. Not ideal. From what I have worked out with the Auto Link Premium remote app in an Ioniq when you activate pre-conditioning it only runs for 5 minutes. You do not need to be connected to a charger for this to operate which is fantastic. I guess the 5 minute limit is so it's not forgotten about. My understanding is that the pre-conditioning function is "hard coded" to run for 30 mins max so in theory they could allow longer run times. It would be good if heated steering wheel and seats could also be activated but it doubt it.
Hello. Sorry my English is not good :-). I follow all your video !!! Thanks again to give us all these informations. It’s not the subject of your video but I have one question concerning the tire on the kona. What is your tire’s brand on your kona in UK? What do you think about this brand ? Thanks again sylvain (from Le Mans)
The EV Puzzle thanks !!! In France it s nexen to. Thanks again !!! And don t stop you vidéo please :-) if you come in Le Mans during the 24h tell me :-)
As a leaf owner with a Kona on order... im really going to miss the app based heating and cooling. I just can't get an answer to this.. but though we know that Hyundai in the UK have no cellular infrastructure... I wonder whether the hardware is already in the UK cars for activation sometime in the future. e-sim technology is everywhere, and presumably the car might have an e-sim built in and dormant. I would be annoyed if, in a years time they did launch the service in the UK yet all our Konas couldn't use it unless we bought a new car. Granted, the Nissan service is shockingly bad. I would say that at least half the time I need it, the service fails and wont connect and I end up going outside to switch on the heaters manually anyway - so the Kona will be no different in that regard. Does anyone know the situation with the UK Blue Link ?
im hoping thats not the case but will have to wait and see. You'd have thought that it would be easier to fit the 'standard' equipment even though its not usable in the UK yet rather than a different part or module for the UK that specifically excluded the functionality. Seems like we are nowhere near something like Blue Link being launched in the UK and I suppose that regardless of the long waiting list for orders, the electric cars just aren't significant enough in Hyundai's sales to warrant the infrastructure. I would hope they wake up a bit though and realise that customers like myself are used to the Leaf and are quite possibly considering jumping ship from one manufacturer to another and surely they should be trying to entice us with at least as good a proposition as we already have from Nissan. @@EVPuzzle
There will always be differences between cars. It's unlikely one will be better in every respect. Many people value the lack of vampire drain so would not like an always on connectivity.
Nigel, does the car have to be plugged in to precondition? I would rather just precondition using the battery as I don’t need the range for normal use. I expect to charge once a week or even once a fortnight.
Hi I precondition my ioniq on the timer and charge for my off peak hours 00:30 to 04:30 on octopus ev go tariff, I find another advantage is that this pre warming the battery in two ways I believe one in the the cabin heat is vented to the battery pack in the Ioniq cabin and secondly the current is flowing through the battery so I find initial range on the GOM can be higher than when I don’t preheat due to less draw to warm up from say 10c to 21c in the cabin of course but also energy loss initially is less rapid due to the battery having having had energy flowing during the preconditioning process from the charger through the battery to the heat pump hence you have the orange HV light lit.
I think defrosting on battery power is something a car should be able to do. Else I would defrost it when driving to work but would have to jump in a cold car after work.
I have an idea for you for a next video: Clima control settings With clima settings i have some problems, don't know what i make wrong. If "Auto" is on, the warm air comes only in the leg area. And the windows fogs up.
At present I have both (the Ioniq is due to go back in about 4 weeks). They are both excellent cars and it comes down to what you want/need. The Ioniq is more efficient (at present getting almost half mile extra per KWh over the Kona), has more interior and boot space, and is a slightly smoother ride. The 64KWh Kona has better range (305 miles against Ioniq 150 miles in good weather with similar driving style), is a higher ride (easier on old bones getting in and out) and is slightly better equipped (eg HUD and paddle braking). Visibility is better on the Kona partly due to the higher ride and partly due to the "bar" across the rear windows in the Ioniq restricting rear view. In performance terms the Kona is better, but both cars are plenty fast enough off the mark for everyday driving situations. If Hyundai had released a 300 mile range Ioniq at the same time as the 64KWh Kona, I would have gone for the Ioniq. I hope that this helps. If you have any specific questions please come back on this.
I love the idea of the efficiency of the Ioniq so from a data point of view I'd love one. So much so I have considered IF I sold my Kona, I might actually trade it for an Ioniq EV, however I'd be left with a less capable car and a lower less comfortable car for my aging bones. Before the Kona I preferred lower, normal, perhaps sporty cars. The Ioniq was perfect except for its Rep car looks. It's not a pretty car but is close to being one. Since owning the Kona I now actually prefer the taller car. The crossover is perhaps my perfect car but I'm still drawn to the efficiency of the Ioniq. Thankfully the Ioniq will not get 300 mile range, not in WLTP terms, so I won't have to make that decision but a 40kWh Ioniq delivering 200+ miles is worth a thought IF and only IF it's cheaper than the Kona by a decent margin.
@@EVPuzzle I didn't think of the seat height, good point. A 64kWh Ionic will be a huge boost. My main reservation is the boot space in the Kona... Ionic seems massive
No but my view is different to others. Some people prioritise their rear space and luggage area where I prioritise the dog. Everything else goes in the car, cramped or not. Mostly it's just Susan and me so when the cars full, it's not that often so it's fine. If it was every an issue I'd get different luggage cases and a roof box. It's like buying a bigger house to fit your sofa. Buy a new sofa!
I have experienced -20C at 4:00am in November 2018. If there is low humidity then I don't have a frost build up on the inside of the windscreen in my 2018 Hyundai Ionq PHEV. So off I go with just the seat and steering wheel heaters on full for just 3 minutes of my 20-minute commute. Now that is not for everyone because I'm on my way to start a stone cold bus so I am dressed quite warmly and do not want any heat on at all!
You did not activated mirrors and back window when setting temperature. Also you don't have children to take to school and kindergarten... Every minute is impotent and also they are not cold when they came into a car. What I do is also use charging point at home to give the car power 5 to 10 minutes before. My car will not precondition if there is no power from charger(not sure about Kona) and 5 to 10 minutes is more then enough. Alternatively you could change departure time 20 minus later since 30 minutes is too long if you ask me. So what I have is precondition set to 8:00 and I use my charging point(controlled my phone) to send power to car about 5 to 10 minus before we go. That could be anywhere from 7:40 to 7:50. Alternative way would be to set departure timer to 8:00 and have care precondition from 10 to 20 minutes before I go.
@@EVPuzzle They wear all that except gloves... Sometimes even gloves. Walk is out of a question for 3 and 6 years old on a 5 miles walk next to hi traffic roads...
Have you seen that the Kona coming to Canada will have Blue-Link and an App to control the car via a Smartphone? See at 5m 30s in this Hyundai video: th-cam.com/video/qkm1eF_-5p8/w-d-xo.html
Love your video, really good instruction. The only issue on my end is your statement about is it really useful, that preconditioning is very good to have in climates such in Canada. We get -30C temperature during winter and even -40 in the worst times, so this becomes a very good thing to have before we leave for work or drive the kids to school. It defrosts the windshield ect so for us.. It's a darn necessity LMAO!
But really, your vid was great. Gave it a thumbs up, I'd put in 5/5 stars if they had a grading type of levels on youtube instead of a thumbs up and down. Keep it going sir!
Very fair point, I forget my audience spreads beyond the UK far too often. Amazed you all watch so thank you 👍
@@EVPuzzle yeah! Pretty good stuff you put out there! ;)
I don't own an EV (yet), however, your videos are so informative and interesting I find myself drawn to watch each one.
Sad but awesome too 😉😆
Nigel, good point well made, seems a no brainer to me. Just leave at 8.57 and defrost manually, less energy used and turn seats and rear defrost on manually.
Hi Nigel, thank you for your very informative videos which I have enjoyed and influenced my decision to buy a Kona originally scheduled for a September delivery I am collecting in just two weeks :)
Another great video Nigel! I think your suspicions are probably correct for the UK. However, for colder climates, like Canada, it would likely take that long on a cold morning to heat the car & battery pack if it's parked outside. Having the option of changing the amount of pre-conditioning time would make the Kona a more "global" car.
Great experiment and a surprising result. Your results showing a difference of 3mi, times that by seven or even five and that’s near enough 5.8% - 8.2% of a full charge, (taking 258mi to be 100%).
It all adds up
Would be interesting to see how much power it takes for say 16°c preheat. May a mix of preheat and post heat (when you get in the car) is the way forward. Finding the sweet spot for maximum balance of energy usage.
Keep up the good work. :)
The ultimate solution i think would be a good quality wooden garage with insulation on the inside. Pre-heat the car near the end of off peak.
The three benefits of this are 1: you will use less electricity to pre heat the car as the insulated garage will come into play, and 2: you can still use the cheaper off peak electricity as the car will stay warmer longer in the insulated garage.. So 3: you can sign up to a BEV / offpeak tariff both saving money and being more community and environmentally spirited by not sucking peak time juice.
If I could park it indoors, I would 😆
I pre-condition my ev (BMW i3 22kw) from its battery. Although it starts the process 30 minutes before you set off. I find that if you take this in to account then just enter a time 15 minutes later than when you want to leave. That way you can interrupt and leave in the car while only half way through the cycle, so using less energy. At least this way its a lot easier than having to get the app out every morning to pre-condition. I only use the app when I'm out and about and know I need to leave in my car in 10 minutes time to go home.
My i3 33kWh ev takes for 20 min precondition from its battery about 2,5% = 0,73kWh battery capacity. That means about 4 km range loss in the city. Ambient temperature 5°C. Often I use precondition 10min from its battery before I start, because it's more efficient due to heat pumpe push. The heat pump is not so efficient at lower speed especially in the city.
We have a saying in my sw development team... "that is two inches of code". This should not be a hard choice for the user, instead, a very simple sw update should let us users select if, when, how many minutes beforehand, and wether to have to be connected or not to the grid.
Thanks for the video,
Diego.
It pains me as software developer and IT technician to see obvious lines of code missing in things like Satnav and car systems, whilst they waste an entire page of data and options on a picture of how much co2 we've saved.
Criminal neglect
@@EVPuzzle There is also the 'not being used as intended'. As someone mentioned, you can set the preheat 5 minutes before departure. The extra 25 min are making sure the car is still warm if you slept in
Our Peak tariff is active when we need to leave in the mornings se so we don't precondition while plugged in. We have a garage so deicing is not an issue. We do use camper mode in the summer to keep the AC on while we run errands. Summers here in North Carolina are very hot and it only cost a small amount of range to have a comfortable cabin when we get in after stopping for groceries etc. We have the 100kWh battery on our X so we use it.
I guess the preconditioning take more energy because it heats up the car, THEN KEEPS IT Warm for upto 30mins.
You might me better off timing it so that you start your journey 5/10mins into the pre conditioning.
Yesterday on the Belgian Kia site is the folder publishers of the eNiro. 2 versions (must & more) and when I look to the more version it is mentionned that version has a timer controlled battery pack heater. That van explain why there is more energy used in timer mode instead of the defrosting mode.
The Kia wording is different to the Hyundai wording regarding preconditioning. It does seem to imply battery warming too in the Kia but the wording isn't clear as no parameters are mentioned.
I wouldn't presume one way or the other based on what I've read and been told so far
Happy new year Nigel :)
As you said, the HV battery is "on".. I'm pretty sure heatpump and PTC runs on DC (not AC from the wall), so the power comes from the battery no matter plugged in or not. So the battery is charging and discharging at the same time, the charger simply tries to keep the battery at the same level.
If you tried something different, you might see lower number on GOM, either charge on schuko, precharge to 100% or with the zappi and PV's you could set it to only charge from PV I guess (more power out than in).
The preheat did take a lot of power (both kW and kWh), that leads me to believe it only runs PTC when preheating, just like the old Leaf does.
For you in UK, yeah I would agree it's pretty much just a gimmick, especially since it has to be plugged in. I've got app, I never preheat when around 0C or above, the car gets so quickly warm anyways that I really don't see the point.
I think that if you are so fragile that you can't get into a "cold" car in +2C, you really shouldn't be moving outside during wintertime..
But for us Norvegians, it feels cold to get in when say -10/-15C or below, but the worst part is the ice. Many times it's rock hard, maby with snow on top, and you really can't get it all off with a scraper or it's really hard work. Many times you have rock hard ice on the inside as well. When that cold it takes a lot more time to build heat in cabin, thus clearing windows. Going to the really cold places here (normally get down to -30C or colder), most people have engine and cabinheaters for their fossil cars as well (normally Defa). And many places schukos for preheating are fitted at workplaces, hotels etc.
Well, there are very fragile people here too, when we get down to -15C, fossils are idling "everywhere" while the owner goes for a quick shopping. As for me, as long as the windows are ice free, I don't mind getting into a cold car.
Yep you're right there's no bypass for the AC power to power the Heater seperately. The car still powers it all exactly the same so yes the power bring drawn is just to top up the battery, which makes you wonder why Hyundai made is compulsory not optional.
I've just said the same in another comment. Norway temps and smaller batteries means preconditioning more vital. Bigger battery means I don't care about warming the battery for better range
@@EVPuzzle yeah, I really don't understand why it has to be plugged in.
You make a very good point about peak power. I believe it will be important that most EV's charge when the owners charge themself, normally during night. When it has to be plugged in, and it (all EV's) draw power from the grid when preheating, maby the ICE-fans eventually will be correct and the grid will collaps if we all preheat for 30 min while making coffee and running kettle for tea..
On a longer trip, I don't believe a warm vs cold battery will give very much extra range, but it sure gives quicker charging and more regen.
We can but hope that the energy companies implement a solution to resolve the peak demand. It's an industry standard method of planning for capacity and performance. You target the peak and focus effort there first, where the greatest impact can be made.
It's nice to know if you want extra range you can charge just before leaving and help BUT by how much does 7kw charging warm the battery? I'd love to know
@@EVPuzzle I believe in smart EV-chargers, maby V2H/V2G, but at least for them to shut of power when high demand. Then my question is, does the Kona just need the plug connected for preheat, or does it have to recieve power..?
I can't check 7kW, as my old Leaf only supports 3.6kW. Leafspy shows batterytemp, as far as I remember the temp went up max 2C after 2-4 hours on 16A. At 10A I believe I didn't see any difference at all.
But I can do a recheck later and come back to you with the results ;)
Anyway, it's really not a whole lot.
You earlier did an efficiencytest. I believe you ended up at 90%? So 10%, or 700 watt should go to heat, some of that is heat in battery.. It takes some time to heat up 300 kg (?) battery with 700 watts... And even longer on 10/16A (200-300 watt).
And then I just realised something..
In the Leaf there is a coolingsystem, which I believe cooles the inverter, motor and charger. So increase in batterytemp is purely from internal resistance.
While the Kona has watercooled battery, right? And if that coolant is shared between motor, inverter, charger and battery, you'll have increase in batterytemp from internal resistance AND heatloss in the charger...
Thanks for good explanation. Now, I know how this feature works. Honestly I don't use preconditioning. I start driving and warm up - it takes a view minutes only. The heating system of the kona is pretty good!
It would seem preconditioning is not needed as much in a car with heated seats, heated steering wheel and a large battery. In my 20kWh Renault Zoe 0.94kWh is a significant proportion of the battery capacity, and therefore range. I also don't have heated seats or steering wheel so I find preconditioning is useful. In a colder climate, like Norway it would also be very useful and would need to be a significant period of time. What you say about using the grid at peak times is valid, especially if you have a night time tariff. Interesting stuff, Thanks
Happy new year too and a good health.
I'm thinking when driving alone I don't see an advantage because I'd like to use drivers only button.
But when you compare it with defrosting you can't measure the heatpumps energy it takes from the battery, maybe also nearly the same amount. Or when preheating it heats up the battery too and defrosting all HP heat energy can be used for defrosting only.
The reason people use pre heating on the leaf is that you can also use it when you’re out and about, it’s nice coming back to a nice warm car👌 I wouldn’t buy an ev without an app, its one of the best features 🤗
Fantastic video, all the best from Iceland.
Happy New Year! You purchase wisely. This care deserve closed garage-make one. Wonderful video. The car sure will be a game changer. Probably you know, but the level of the HUD display is possible to be moved higher or lower, if your seat is regulated lower or higher. i.e, the HUD level visually is not "frozen" and it is possible to be regulated. My humble opinion is to preheat some time before you go into the car. It is good for the car.
Yes HUD can be moved up, down and tilted, lots of adjustment
In the Old Days - 1960 - a 3kW electric heater warmed a room in 15 minutes.
I still use that technique to warm my Man Cave (aka the (detached) Garage).
On a cold and frosty morning I warm up my Nissan Leaf (using grid energy) via Nissan EV application.
Works a treat.
3kW for 15 minutes = 0.75kW.
Somehow, I think I may have got the equations wrong.
Please advise.
Hi Nigel, would it be possible for you to make a video on all the energy efficiencies you’ve discovered over the past months?
For example, using seat heater rather than heater/heat pump, what temp or fan speeds use least energy.
Rather than viewers having to view all the various videos and then remember them, just a quick condensed episode letting us know the best settings to minimise ancillary energy use, thus maximising range.
Cheers
A Nigel's guide to the best efficiency, hmmm
Well, I have an old 24kWh Leaf. It has an app as you probably know and I think it works well . There is a timer (on the app) too but it seems a bit of a faff, so it’s easiest just to pre heat with the app 5 minutes before you want to set off.
Happy New Year Nigel. I have had my Leaf for 2.5 years with the pre-heat app and probably used it about 3 or 4 times before I got fed up with it. You have to find the app and load it up. Then log in (it doesn't remember you). Then wait a minute or so for it to sort itself out and actual allow you to start the car heater. It's not worth the effort. It is much less hassle to walk 10 paces outside and turn it on manually.
It will take longer to heat the whole car than just defrost the windscreen.
Personally I prefer to heat the car from the battery because I often charge up for free from my roof PV panels.
DTK = 3 days (Days To Kona)
That's my feeling.
I wonder what all the fuss is about.
Wow 3 days is so close
happy new year. In your video you talk about preconditioning and preheating. Is warming the battery to an ideal temperature for optimal use part of the preconditioning? If so does a shorter predconditioning with the main objective of preheating the car mean a loss in efficiency and health of the battery? Bjorn Nijland regularly talks about the importance of preconditioning/preheating in terms of efficiency of the battery. Not sure if the health of the battery decreases signtificantly over time when its less predconditioned more often to optimal operating temperatures over time.
No battery warming is not part of preconditioning. It's handled seperately by the BMS as needed. You don't have to worry about it.
Smaller batteries and cold weather are another story in Norway
Hello Nigel, very good video again. Here in Holland the same issue. Working a business from home the pre-conditioning setting in advanced is good but not perfect for people with a not standard job. Every day is different. No standard leaving the home office here. So an app to start the heating, heated seats and stearing wheel 10 minutes in advance off leaving for an appointment would be more economic.
Just seems sensible. I'd be happy with a direct WiFi interface not a 3g internet server hosted service as per many others. Keep it simple
Yes very in favour. My kona is on my driveway always connected to my home wifi. So no problem connecting with an app.
Iff there was an app ofcourse 🙄
I have been told by my local dealership that the software/interface should already be avail/build in for the Kona but that the app is still in development. No clue if it is true though. I will be waiting some more Months until my ordered Kona will be delivered to find out......
Dealers can be very naughty telling you all sorts of things. They are not the best informed sadly.
I was led to believe that in cold weather preconditioning helps battery management and prolongs life. Also If batteries are preconditioned would they not give better range once you have set off? Are you relying too much on the GOM to know the battery temperature? Would a cold start battery not lose range quicker?
Yes a cold start battery would impact range, of course but so far to my knowledge only winter mode specifically warms the battery and only when specific extreme temperatures are met, as per my video on winter mode.
Presumptions are currently being made that charging before you depart pre warms the battery also.
Preconditioning the interior does not necessarily precondition the battery also but may have an effect. I don't know for sure....yet.
The high voltage battery is warmed as needed by the systems that manage the battery not for ultimate range but for preservation of battery life.
The inner workings and specifics are something I'm currently getting to grips with the help from Hyundai.
Hope this helps
Hi Nigel. I’ve definitely seen higher initial miles/kWh after a scheduled preheat, so battery looks like its warmed. Shame we can’t check. Might be worth trying to comparing the difference, if possible. You can also enable rear window/side mirror in the preheat settings.
I've started building test data for that exact scenario. Just need some consistency in the weather.
The problem is 3 miles of range is quite a lot to gain back from a warmer battery.
I've been wondering if driving carefully in cold weather just delays battery warming up too.
On my colder long trips I notice miles/kWh doesnt increase much for first 30 miles. I almost wonder if driving quick for a few miles might help
Really, rear window/mirrors, where's that setting?
Enable the button next to the temperature setting. Though I need to double check since its icon is for the front screen option but I’m sure the rear window and side mirrors were clear.
Haven't seen that at all
Check 3:25 into your video or go outside 😉
I always precondition the ampera in this weather, 2x 10 minute cycles. Uses about 1kWh, off the grid because with a 10kWh pack, that would really hurt range.
My car was preconditioned to +70 Celsius today by the West Australian sun. Heated steering wheel was toasty too.
Lol
From one Nigel to another, I think it would be v useful!!!
Interesting that the car seems to pull so much power during preconditioning. Is it doing some battery pack warming too?
I suppose the answer might be simply to interrupt the timed preconditioning after 5 minutes if that is sufficient to warm the cabin.
Yes. Pity about the no app situation.
Yeah it's just an overkill.
5 mins should be enough in reality can we really judge being ready that precisely. For me the process is flawed. I think it works best for those who depart at identical times daily
The power you see on your smart meter, don't forget you get power losses in the charger itself converting from home AC to DC in the car. It'd be nice to have that on my iced up ICE car at the moment. ;-) Been a bit frosty here.
Yes I'm interested in energy used not energy received in the car. Zappi records that nicely
I would only bother with pre conditioning if I were going on a long journey and then so I got maximum range, otherwise I would tend to use the heated seat and steering wheel, especially as you’ve shown how quickly the car can defrost. That’s of course if I ever get to seeing my new 🚙 just one other thought did your preconditioning also precondition the battery as well.
Soon soon
The EV Puzzle
Sorry I don’t follow?
My mistake , thought you were saying you were waiting for your new car
The EV Puzzle
LOL I am, I’ve been waiting for the Kona since last August. It was supposed to arrive end of this month but now told 4-6 week delay.
Hopefully it'll be here soon then
Interesting point about pre-conditioning at peak times. It seems silly that they don't have seat, mirror and steering wheel heating in pre-conditioning, while I believe the Bolt and Model 3 have those features. I have a couple of questions for you, if you have a moment.
Did I understand you correctly in that the Kona doesn't have any sort of LTE connection allowing access from an app? I thought Hyundai was going to have that in all of their 2019 models. Seems very odd for an electric car, especially one that will come standard with so many bells and whistles in most countries, to not have it :S.
Are there different settings to pre-condition the interior and to pre-condition the battery? How would it perform if you just got in and drove in cold weather without pre-conditioning?
Do you have to be plugged in to use the preconditioning on the Kona? And there is also a utility/camping mode that you can turn on unplugged, maybe you can check how much power it will draw for a night on 20-21C on a fairly cold night?
Yes for the timer it needs to be plugged in. Yes there's a utility mode too..
Really don't think it's worth testing different temperatures degrees. It'll be marginally longer and marginally less energy. Next time I do it for real, I'll update
@@EVPuzzle Thank you for the reply. I was referring to the utility mode. Maybe you can leave the car outside with the utility on and check the consumption over night? I think Björn did a test, but his temperatures were colder outside in Norway. Having temperatures around 0 will be more representative. Thanks
What does the giant demist button on the pre-conditioning options screen do ? Would that enable the side mirror heating??
No , it's front screen direction.
Without it, heat is direct down and into the car rather than the windscreen. There's no option for rear heating on preconditioning
@@EVPuzzle Oh, that's a little bit disappointing
Hi
If you have time and could answer a couple of question please about the Kona - well maybe more than a couple !
I am currently driving a Leaf 24kw.
I want to go to a bigger battery car AND one with CCS charging so that cuts out the new leaf.
Question s.
When in Cruise control do you lose much milage? With the Leaf I notised the GOM drops quiet a bit. Guess it it due to the lower motor power?
With the heater on can the Kona use any latent heat from the electric motors rather than direct from the heat pump?
On the heater question what sort of drop on the GOM do you get with it on?
I notice test review on a e-Niro there is some form of “cabin heater” facility if stuck in traffic on wanting to sleep in it? Does the Kona have this?
Thanks for taking the time to read this.
Paul
Lord Paul... Norfolk lord Paul,? If so I've seen your posts on broads sites / groups.
Happy to reply on here or via email. My email is in the video description
Lord Paul,
Question, Cruise control. No miles lost it seems very efficient. Nothing noticeable anyway
Heater, yes Kona heAt pump utilises all available recoverable heat sources
Heater on you lose about 6 to 8 miles on 80 to 100% charge
Utility mode allows the main battery to run the cars internal systems such as heater without car actually being on. Effectively for long durations in the car.
Haven't tried it yet though
@@EVPuzzle Thats me Nigel.. email is paul@ncsl.co.uk th-cam.com/users/ncsl ...
I saw the range for a brief second showing 182 miles 11:53.
Yes when the heater was on for a moment
Final comment..... is there a precondition button on the keyfob?
Thank you for this Video. My English is not very good, so i can´t write down my opinion very good. I prefer the preconditioning. But my Kona will arrive at the earliest Oktober 2019. Greetings from Germany.
Thanks Stephan. Best wishes for Oct 19
@@EVPuzzle I have ordered the same colour as your car, plus glass sunroof
Sunroof is an excellent option.
I wish UK had this option
I have always assumed that the country will move to constrain "cheap" EV charging to those overnight times when wind-derived grid power was over-supplied and available for this purpose. As you say, preconditioning will always occur at the start of the business day so outside such periods and a bit of a problem for the grid. You mention the preconditioning "takes 30 mins" but since you set it to start at 9am for 9:30 departure, it seemed to me that this was a result of your own choices. Sub 1 kwhr is a lot less that I had expected to be used which leads me to a question - does preconditioning warm the traction battery or just the interior of the car ? I had expected preconditioning to achieve three purposes: to address screen defrosting, interior comfort and battery efficiency. Your comments show it only partially addresses the first two if the seats, wing mirrors and steering wheel are not warmed but what about the battery ? Lastly, it is generally understood that traction battery life is optimised when the storage charge rate is limited well below 100% which means we might benefit from adding charge at the last possible time before embarking on a long journey. Again this precludes taking grid power in the middle of the night so I am left assuming one might want a few kw hr of home-based battery to provide this power and thus time-shift the load on the grid.
Hello/Bonjour Nigel. I am expecting my Kona in the spring. I live in Ottawa, Canada. This feature wI'll be useful several days in the winter. We can get to minus 35 Celsius and have freezing rain. I have had to scrape thick ice from my windshield many times. The feature may also help precondition the battery pack which will help it stay healthy and not use more battery power because we started a cold pack.
By the way... Does the Kona come with a granny cable and a second one for a 240 volt outlet?
Bonjour Shawn
You'll definitely be testing the waterproof features then.
I guess preconditioning helps let you in the car when temperatures are that low with thick ice.
Yes UK cars came with 2 cables, type 2 and 13amp 3pin granny cable
It will depend on your country. In the UK we have a 3 pin plug cable and AC a 7kw cable,
Thanks for these tests, it shows there is still quite a bit of work to do to make this process “smart”. I agree that the pre conditioning timer probably is not worth the bother unless you are in a really cold climate. I’m thinking of getting a smart charger that can charge the Kona with an app but I assume that it can’t communicate with the Kona in any way. Is this correct?
We'll see very soon as my Zappi is smart and gets an app very soon
Happy New Year! Interesting. I simply put the car in the garage for frost free safe visibility. You seem to have a garage? Warning. I have looked at different energy tariffs for EV and have found that you usually have to take dual fuel and the gas tariff costs several hundred pounds more a year than ordinary suppliers dual fuel tariffs. Good point about pre-heat or not. Cheers.
I miss using a garage. Just don't have the space yet and it's not a great positioned garage. One day.
I used to laugh at people scraping as I've always used a garage until recently
Agree about the energy use at peak time. Not ideal. From what I have worked out with the Auto Link Premium remote app in an Ioniq when you activate pre-conditioning it only runs for 5 minutes. You do not need to be connected to a charger for this to operate which is fantastic. I guess the 5 minute limit is so it's not forgotten about. My understanding is that the pre-conditioning function is "hard coded" to run for 30 mins max so in theory they could allow longer run times. It would be good if heated steering wheel and seats could also be activated but it doubt it.
its for very low temperatures... like -10 or even colder with windshield factor ...
Hello. Sorry my English is not good :-). I follow all your video !!! Thanks again to give us all these informations. It’s not the subject of your video but I have one question concerning the tire on the kona. What is your tire’s brand on your kona in UK? What do you think about this brand ? Thanks again sylvain (from Le Mans)
Your English is excellent.
Tyres are Nexen and I think they are too hard and too noisey BUT I'm not yet sure what would be better
The EV Puzzle thanks !!! In France it s nexen to. Thanks again !!! And don t stop you vidéo please :-) if you come in Le Mans during the 24h tell me :-)
Would love to visit let mans for the 24h some time,
As a leaf owner with a Kona on order... im really going to miss the app based heating and cooling.
I just can't get an answer to this.. but though we know that Hyundai in the UK have no cellular infrastructure... I wonder whether the hardware is already in the UK cars for activation sometime in the future.
e-sim technology is everywhere, and presumably the car might have an e-sim built in and dormant.
I would be annoyed if, in a years time they did launch the service in the UK yet all our Konas couldn't use it unless we bought a new car.
Granted, the Nissan service is shockingly bad. I would say that at least half the time I need it, the service fails and wont connect and I end up going outside to switch on the heaters manually anyway - so the Kona will be no different in that regard.
Does anyone know the situation with the UK Blue Link ?
I understand that early Kona's can not be retro fitted but that's just my understanding so far
im hoping thats not the case but will have to wait and see. You'd have thought that it would be easier to fit the 'standard' equipment even though its not usable in the UK yet rather than a different part or module for the UK that specifically excluded the functionality.
Seems like we are nowhere near something like Blue Link being launched in the UK and I suppose that regardless of the long waiting list for orders, the electric cars just aren't significant enough in Hyundai's sales to warrant the infrastructure.
I would hope they wake up a bit though and realise that customers like myself are used to the Leaf and are quite possibly considering jumping ship from one manufacturer to another and surely they should be trying to entice us with at least as good a proposition as we already have from Nissan.
@@EVPuzzle
There will always be differences between cars. It's unlikely one will be better in every respect.
Many people value the lack of vampire drain so would not like an always on connectivity.
Thanks for this infos 👍 and happy new year 🥂
Nigel, does the car have to be plugged in to precondition? I would rather just precondition using the battery as I don’t need the range for normal use. I expect to charge once a week or even once a fortnight.
You just answered later in the video 😁
Maybe it also warms up the battery so it isn’t so cold when you are ready to drive?
Not directly but with current flowing through it might have an impact
Wait, what, it doesn’t put the heated seats on when preconditioning? One up to GM :)
No, why would it? It's preheating, that is no one is sitting in the car.
Hi
I precondition my ioniq on the timer and charge for my off peak hours 00:30 to 04:30 on octopus ev go tariff, I find another advantage is that this pre warming the battery in two ways I believe one in the the cabin heat is vented to the battery pack in the Ioniq cabin and secondly the current is flowing through the battery so I find initial range on the GOM can be higher than when I don’t preheat due to less draw to warm up from say 10c to 21c in the cabin of course but also energy loss initially is less rapid due to the battery having having had energy flowing during the preconditioning process from the charger through the battery to the heat pump hence you have the orange HV light lit.
It'd be nice to know how much heat actually goes to the battery. Oh for a battery temperature gauge
I think defrosting on battery power is something a car should be able to do. Else I would defrost it when driving to work but would have to jump in a cold car after work.
I have an idea for you for a next video: Clima control settings
With clima settings i have some problems, don't know what i make wrong.
If "Auto" is on, the warm air comes only in the leg area. And the windows fogs up.
Yep, Auto is a pain directing to your feet and good idea on video thanks
Hi nigel, maybe a tough hypothetical question, but given the choice would you choose a 64kWh Kona or Ionic? (both top of the range spec)
At present I have both (the Ioniq is due to go back in about 4 weeks). They are both excellent cars and it comes down to what you want/need. The Ioniq is more efficient (at present getting almost half mile extra per KWh over the Kona), has more interior and boot space, and is a slightly smoother ride. The 64KWh Kona has better range (305 miles against Ioniq 150 miles in good weather with similar driving style), is a higher ride (easier on old bones getting in and out) and is slightly better equipped (eg HUD and paddle braking). Visibility is better on the Kona partly due to the higher ride and partly due to the "bar" across the rear windows in the Ioniq restricting rear view. In performance terms the Kona is better, but both cars are plenty fast enough off the mark for everyday driving situations.
If Hyundai had released a 300 mile range Ioniq at the same time as the 64KWh Kona, I would have gone for the Ioniq.
I hope that this helps. If you have any specific questions please come back on this.
I love the idea of the efficiency of the Ioniq so from a data point of view I'd love one. So much so I have considered IF I sold my Kona, I might actually trade it for an Ioniq EV, however I'd be left with a less capable car and a lower less comfortable car for my aging bones.
Before the Kona I preferred lower, normal, perhaps sporty cars. The Ioniq was perfect except for its Rep car looks. It's not a pretty car but is close to being one. Since owning the Kona I now actually prefer the taller car. The crossover is perhaps my perfect car but I'm still drawn to the efficiency of the Ioniq.
Thankfully the Ioniq will not get 300 mile range, not in WLTP terms, so I won't have to make that decision but a 40kWh Ioniq delivering 200+ miles is worth a thought IF and only IF it's cheaper than the Kona by a decent margin.
@@EVPuzzle I didn't think of the seat height, good point.
A 64kWh Ionic will be a huge boost.
My main reservation is the boot space in the Kona... Ionic seems massive
@@davidarf thanks. Generally do you think the Kona boot is too small for a family..?
No but my view is different to others. Some people prioritise their rear space and luggage area where I prioritise the dog. Everything else goes in the car, cramped or not. Mostly it's just Susan and me so when the cars full, it's not that often so it's fine.
If it was every an issue I'd get different luggage cases and a roof box.
It's like buying a bigger house to fit your sofa. Buy a new sofa!
I used it twice. One time it took 1 kwh, one time it took 3,6 kwh. I stopped using it after the last one...
Maybe for guy's with -20C outside ^^
I have experienced -20C at 4:00am in November 2018. If there is low humidity then I don't have a frost build up on the inside of the windscreen in my 2018 Hyundai Ionq PHEV. So off I go with just the seat and steering wheel heaters on full for just 3 minutes of my 20-minute commute. Now that is not for everyone because I'm on my way to start a stone cold bus so I am dressed quite warmly and do not want any heat on at all!
You did not activated mirrors and back window when setting temperature. Also you don't have children to take to school and kindergarten... Every minute is impotent and also they are not cold when they came into a car.
What I do is also use charging point at home to give the car power 5 to 10 minutes before. My car will not precondition if there is no power from charger(not sure about Kona) and 5 to 10 minutes is more then enough. Alternatively you could change departure time 20 minus later since 30 minutes is too long if you ask me.
So what I have is precondition set to 8:00 and I use my charging point(controlled my phone) to send power to car about 5 to 10 minus before we go. That could be anywhere from 7:40 to 7:50.
Alternative way would be to set departure timer to 8:00 and have care precondition from 10 to 20 minutes before I go.
I tell my kids to wear a coat, hat and gloves and walk to school
@@EVPuzzle They wear all that except gloves... Sometimes even gloves. Walk is out of a question for 3 and 6 years old on a 5 miles walk next to hi traffic roads...
you need to test it in very low -20'C or colder... Then you will know why ... :)
Have you seen that the Kona coming to Canada will have Blue-Link and an App to control the car via a Smartphone? See at 5m 30s in this Hyundai video: th-cam.com/video/qkm1eF_-5p8/w-d-xo.html
Yes I'm aware