Visiting settlements your character had once seen thriving and full of life only to be met with empty streets would’ve been harrowing. Seeing the Children of the Cathedral’s actual use would’ve been super cool too. Crazy how much dialogue and alternate set pieces were crafted just for this to be scrapped. Are they any mods which completely restore all this?
@@TriangleCity do those restore everything here or just the invasions? Ik Fixt at least restores the time limit. This vid got me wanting to do a replay now, thanks bro. Also could you tell me what the music at 12:20 is?
It restores a variety of cut stuff and has a lot of options of what you want installed or not. You can even pick the intended invasion time limit or choose a far longer one.
To me, the original super mutants invasions is one of the definitive examples of unrealized content from Fallout as a whole. It's such an interesting idea that has never returned in any of the other games, or really games in general. I understand that some people dislike time limits, but I think that mods for FO1 can show that having options is the perfect compromise.
Favourite investigative Fallout channel. If you don’t get the water chips in time, all the water chips from Vault City in FO2 will come for you. All. The. Chips.
i used to play animal crossing ambience for my 3 year old to sleep, but lately we've been watching your videos to go to bed 😭 he's taken such an interest in these videos and it's so sweet
I think the best way to deal with the time limits would've been a setting. By default, have no time limit but have the option to set some more generous time limits for additional immersion and what not, or even some more punishing time limits for additional challenge.
Tough thing to do in a satisfying way, without the player already having played through the game it would be unclear to them what is a challenging setting, impossible setting, too easy etc
@@obnoxiouspedant Well that's why the default setting should be to not have the time limit... So someone playing through the game for the first time can do it at their own pace, and not risking soft-locking themselves due to not knowing what they need to do.
@@Lagbeard fair point yeah, I just think then it would lose all the impact it would have had as a memorable experience, because you've already played through it ya get me
@@obnoxiouspedant I think it would still carry its impact on a second playthrough if you never saw it on the first one. Honestly, if you go into your second playthrough thinking you know what you're going to get and then the game throws that big of a curveball at you, that could actually have an even bigger impact. Just look at Mr. X in Resident Evil 2. He didn't even show up until your second playthrough in the original game, but that only made encountering him even more of a shock. Now he's one of the most iconic enemies in the franchise
Possibly the worst way. They already cut it, because it'd be too much time. Now imagine having to put additional setting on it and then make sure they actually work.
Since Tim Cain has stated Star Control 2 (The Ur-Quan Masters) as one of his favorite games, I'm not surprised he wanted to include the invasions as that bears similarity to the Korh-Ar death march.
I didn't know that was what likely inspired the invasion mechanic; as it almost replicates the same mechanics used in Star Control 2. You have tons of time there, with enough wiggle room to do extra before the Space Spiders try to get to you, and even are encouraged to visit planets that once helped you which leads to *Shenanigans* from a few of them. Same thing here with the muties, you don't have infinite time and your time is rapidly consumed in small events but you had enough wiggle room once more to do quite a bit.
Dead rising is a perfect example of how to use time limits. And deadrising 4 shows how you remove agencey by taking them out. Would they be good for fallout yes if you want to play hardcore . Or no for playing it like a sandbox.
This reminded me of something from the OG System Shock. That game had multiple difficulty sliders, including for combat, puzzles, and plot, and you could play with any combination of them. When turned up to maximum, the plot slider gave you a six hour time limit. I've never heard of that in any other game, and I think it would fit Fallout and the invasion system perfectly.
The time limit sucks. But. I'll never forget my first time playing Fallout and finally finding the damn chip. I was down to a couple days left. I headed back to the Vault, and "fast travel" was excruciatingly slow. Tick, tick, tick. I made it back JUST in time.
Gotta thank you Triangle, you inspired me to look into Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky and it was very funny seeing their reaction to the time limit when they played Fallout.
This is actually very cool. I wish they kept it and improved it. Really reminds me of the Ur Quan Death March, who, once victorious against their non genocidal brethren, go on a crusade against every faction, friendly or not, with the last target being Earth.
My main complaint about the invasion mechanic is how soon the invasion starts. 90 days before Adytum is destroyed is really fast. I know I didn't get there anywhere near that quickly first time I played. Also, the gap between Shady Sands and the Vault falling is nearly half the available limit, and you end up looking at over 200 days of there being nothing but you and the super mutants in the world. I feel like they should have added 100-200 days to each settlement's destruction, or started the timer once the player wiped out the mutants in Necropolis, or some combination of the two. Adytum being destroyed 190 days after starting the game or 90 days after hitting Necropolis would make it a lot less punishing I think.
It'd be interesting to have a version of this for New Vegas, where the Legion slowly advances and takes over various locations in the Mojave. It'd be less terrifying than the F1 version, as most NPCs would survive (sorry Boone), but it'd show the Legion as an advancing threat.
I like it when games abstract certain things like the tile traveling because it represents your characters skill, not yours or meta knowledge and you can use your imagination a bit more for what the world look like. Plus it help developer in the fact they don't have to map out and add assets to every square mile.
If there's a Fallout 1 remake, I think having the day limit would really make the game stand out. I know people hate timers, but for such a harrowing experience, I think it'd be worth it.
I love how Bethesda could add a Timed Mode to any game though. Base game you can do whatever, kill what you want, explore, all that. Timed Mode really makes you hunker down and realize what is truly important to finishing the main objective of the game.
How exactly would you even time the main quest of Fallout 3? Project Purity has been rusting away for like 20 years before the game even starts, so it's not like it's suddenly going anywhere. Beyond that you have the chase after Dad, but what, is he gonna suddenly drop dead? How would you even know about it? The whole main plot would have to be restructured. In Fallout 4, similarly, everything has been going on for many years and it's not until the PC makes an appearance that things start moving. Still, what exactly would you time in that game? "Institute has an evil plan to replace all humans with synths and are going to launch a massive invasion in 200 days"? Again, the whole plot would need to be remade to warrant a timer.
IMO this seems like the best way to do a main rpg quest. In Skyrim I have multiple characters that have never started the civil war or dragon questlines. I've never finished Fallout 4's main quest. If the game doesn't make me do it right away, then I'll do all the side quests first. Even though I know it will break progression for me its what I've done since Far Cry 3. A timer or something is great to me because without it "A player will optimize the fun out of a game." Unsure whom the quote came from but I'll be damned if it isn't true.
I think post-Oblivion content creep would make timelimits in Bethesda games more of a net negative than a net positive. There's so much world to explore and sidequests to do that, if you have a ticking clock on the main quest that ended the game, much of that side content would never be experienced.
I wasn't very clear in my op. I need an incentive to do the story quests. If i can do it at any time with no restrictions that's the path I'm gonna take. A time system is just one example of fixing it. @@derkylos
@@davidteachout1888 Time limits ruin games. You put a time limit on a game, you might as well not bother with an open world concept because 99% of your open world game will just be ignored because the time crunch the limit puts on the players. The best way to do an RPG is ax the time limits for quests/missions and just let the player explore the damned world at their own pace.
Great video, I don't think I've seen the time limits explained in such a detailed fashion before. Also, for anyone who wants to experience the invasions, Fallout Et Tu mod brings them back and allows you to customize after how many days each place gets invaded.
That would have been a really mean fakeout, if you lost that much time from getting water for the vault. That's like rareware levels of "screw you, player, lol" Also, what is that sad song you use sometimes? The one that played in the cut fallout tactics video and the cut invasion segment.
I highly doubt many people ever noticed that different map tiles have different traveling speed. I don't remember it being mentioned in the manual or any guide I came across back in the day either. Everyone just beelined towards the next destination.
I recall a similar game mechanic existed in Exile III: Ruined World. If you took too long to deal with the various plagues in the land like slimes or giant roaches, entire towns would eventually be overrun and destroyed. While it certainly doesn't take 500 in-game days to finish Fallout 1 (or at least kill the Master as the document says) doing it in time to save groups like the ghouls of Necropolis and the Followers of the Apocalypse would have made for a harrowing challenge.
What a great game that was. So far ahead of its time. I kind of like the remasters, but I always miss the depth and complexity of the original release. I remember jokingly asking Jeff Vogel on his Facebook when he would bring his games to Steam, and he ended up doing it a week later. What a chad.
Thanks very much for covering this, I've always been wondering about the details of the super mutant invasion in Fallout 1 the first time I returned to Necropolis.
I can understand why they cut it, for players to be abble to play the side quests, but they could have made a hard mode where this invasion would happen
I had a bug? where I would meet a trader as a random encounter and you could ask about locations. First time he just gives a description but when I met him for a second time he would just say "over run by mutants last I heard". I would go there an nothing had occured so I don't know if its cut content that got missed or something.
Has anyone played the game with the Fallout Fixt mod ? Oppinions on it. As I read the full version, it has the invasion and other stuff added back to the game. I have not played with it, but I now have plans to do so.
Fallout Et Tu is more up to date, it ports the game to Fallout 2's engine and also brings back cut features and adds some optional stuff, plus you can customize the invasion time limits.
I did very recently, I forgot I had it installed lol. I lost a lot of the world map before I realised what was going on, which was fine for me (i've played Fallout 1 a ton of times) but it would be less fun if it was my first time playing. Definitely a 2nd or 3rd time playthrough setting, imo.
I haven't personally tried Fixt, but to me it sounded like even with the "purist" install options it came with too many changes I didn't really want in my game. I'd imagine the Et Tu mod for FO2 is the better choice, like quaker said.
I played Fallout with the invasions included, and let me tell you: It does NOT make the experience better. By the time I made it to the Boneyard, the place had already been destroyed.
The problem with the restorations is that the design was never finished. There were meant to be ways to add time to the invasions and additional content that came alongside the invasions that would've made it much different.
As a player who generally hates time limits, I had a lot of concern going into Fallout 1 knowing of the water chip time limit. But it ended up being such a non-factor…I think I finished with 75% of the time remaining or something like that. The invasion mechanic seems ripe for a mod. Add a new layer of complexity for experienced players.
I didn't know you could use the science skill on the vats computer to blow it up. I thought you had to use bombs, and I always played high int characters as well!
It’s too bad that we don’t have something akin to Daggerfall Unity that ports Fallouts 1/2 (and maybe Tactics) to a much more flexible engine that makes modding the game much easier. Then we could have mods that add cut content like this and other things that couldn’t be done to time/engine limitations. As well as having various quality of life improvements and bug fixes that make those old games more friendly to newcomers. Some guy has been recreating Fallout 2 as an fps/rog hybrid, but it has some rough edges and certain things can’t be faithfully translated from one genre to another because they don’t feel right.
There is a decomp available for FO1 and 2, but I don't know if anyone's done anything notable with it yet. All I'm aware of is a "community edition" by the same guy who did the decomp, which adds some QoL improvements but not really enough to make it worth playing over a modded FO2.
The fact this feature was half cut, but never fully cut leads to some weird stuff in the timeline. In the official timeline of events from Fallout 2, the Vault Dweller kills the Master on March 3rd(super early compared to most players FYI), just two days before the planned conquest of the Boneyard. That seems really intentional, as most players at the time went after the Vats first, so changing that to ensure everyone survives and having it happen by less than 48 hours of difference all speaks of them working around it. HOWEVER, if this was the case Necropolis would be fine as the Master was killed a few weeks before their fall date. And yet canonically they aren't. Mariposa falls in Mid April canonically, which is actually a week after The Hub was supposed to fall. Granted, stopping the Master should stop the Invasion, but still... I can't help but wonder, if part of this is them trying to work around the bugs(Necropolis is the only place where we can actually see the mutant invasion happen on the ground, killing the master first is the only ending that will ever play), so incorporating that into the timeline was somewhat forced. I get that. Have the Master die a few weeks later, Necropolis falls and The Hub survives, that's all fine. Except in NV they have the Followers of the Apocalypse survive, despite them being the first on the chopping block in Fallout 1 AND despite their ending also being bugged to always end badly even if you hurry due to the spy quest being broken. So either the Master did die on March 3rd and their fine, and the Necropolis should be too, or he died after The Necropolis fell and the Followers should be gone as well. If I was the one in charge of cleaning up this timeline I'd have both the Followers and Necropolis wiped out, the Master and Mariposa taken out close together in Late March and Early April, and The Hub just barely escape full invasion by the skin of it's teeth. That last detail would also explain why Shady Sands ended up unifying the region, and not The Hub(who literally invented and controlled the main currency, Hub Script AKA Caps, and have trading connection to everyone) who seemingly was in the process of doing it in Fallout 1. If they were only JUST saved from full invasion by a few days you could easily say that they suffered massive losses of their Caravans out in the West to the mutants(which is already confirmed in game) and that many people were killed by forward scouting attacks of the Master's Army aided by the Cathedral and Jain(who are also there in the final game). That would set them back massively and by the time they were getting back on their feet in the 2090s Shady Sands would already have unified with Junktown and overtaken them. That makes sense to me.
Time is an underutilized mechanic in gaming. It’s underutilized because its a punishing game mechanic and a complete turn off to any casual fan of any game…
Not only that, it disincentivizes players from actually exploring the world which means 99% of the details you put into the world, the years of work, the blood, sweat and tears you shed working on it, would all be wasted and pointless as no one would bother even looking for them because "ain't nobody got time fer dat".
The soft time limit angle always kind of reminded me of how Star Control 2/The Ur-Quan Masters handled the whole "Doctrinal War" subplot. I can kind of see why the time pressure angle got dialled back on future installments since implementing that kind of thing imposes pretty major restrictions elsewhere in the game design process, but it might be nice to see the fixed/extendable time limit make a comeback as an optional modifier for survival mode at some point? Come to think of it, a few other mid-late '90s/early '00s games with sim elements I could name tried to do something similar. System Shock, Daggerfall, Shenmue and Majora's Mask (As alluded to in the video) for instance. I think Majora kind of got by on making the real-time aspect a core, heavily advertised feature and a conscious one-off -- and letting the player keep the time limit from creating hard fail states by time travel.
I love playing with the invasion modded in Fallout 1, it add so much gravitas. All the people you saved, you trade with, you even just talked to. They are about to be walked on by that massive army of mutants.
There's a game called Star Control 2 that has a similar idea of a not-initially known antagonist having a time limit based invasion over the map. It also has ways to delay it, with a hard game over if earth is destroyed. It was cool but was also such a long time limit that whist you knew it would happen and its neat to do to see the dialouge, its not a threat unless you are struggling with the game.
Time limits are never fun for me, playing games my whole life has taught me to explore the world and look in every corner. Like in dead rising the time limit makes me not want to play at all
I hate to just rip on new game design just for the sake of being topical. But it really does feel like older games understood their limitations better. I know it's different studios but for the sake of entertainment what if I told you environmentally Starfield and Fallout 1 are just as empty. Fallout 1 is constructed in a way the player can fill in the gaps and it works. Starfield just tells you in believe in the void and that's it. No imaginion to be had
I think some of thebinvasion times could have been bumped back a bit (90 days is freaking rough) but otherwise its a really cool mechanic and a shame to see it cut
Wow. After like 15 years since I first played Fallout I learned that the second timer (Vault 13 being raided by the Master) was actually effectively removed the entire time.
One issue i think the developers considered that led to incasions being removed is the fact that possible interactions with Super Mutants and the Children would be extremely limited on a story and roleplaying level, even if you played a character who wanted to join the Master. Settlements seeing the regular NPCs replaced with Super Mutants would generally mean that you'd either be doing a lot more combat, which would require more work to make meaningful, aka counterinvasions, or you'd be stuck interacting with a gradually thinning cast and thus exhaust their available content even faster. Clearly the means for a more tug of war, back and forh sandbox were outside the team's resources and own development timelines.
I would like to see you cover some Wasteland 1/2/3/Fountain of Dreams cut content, I'm assuming you've at least played the main three games by this point.
7:37 killing yourself by returning to a vault with no chip wouldnt make any sense. Rather, this sounds like you return with the chip, but ignore the master. You reintegrate into the vault, and then after about a month the master invades the vault for fresh meat.
Some things I didn't notice because I get extremely anxious when put on a time limit is, bodies and chests respawn loot as well as venders restoring their caps in only a day. I usually get my caps by going to the hub, saving, pickpocketing the guards and selling their ammo and shotguns lol
I think it would be so interesting if one of the many, many open world games implemented some gradual invasion mechanic. Start you off in a low level area, let you slowly explore further away, when at a certain point some invasion starts, overrunning first the low level area, forcing the player into the mid level area, before coming back to the now high level occupied zone.
Love your content bro. And I love FNV, but the more OG fallout content I watch the more I want to play the older games. Warlockracy makes great fallout 1/2 content.
Normally I hate time limits, but it's pretty liberal and I like how it makes the game seem more of an adventure, and less like a "DO EVERYTHING" fest where you lose the thread amongst 100 side quests and suddenly you're 200 hours in and haven't touched the main quest.
I love how your dope lofi intro gives me them goodfeels, then the outro gives me a sense of longing for what could have been. A bittersweetness. But forreal, your intro and outro hits hard. Love your content and all of course too. I love how you dig so far down to give us all these little tidbits. So thank you.
I don't think Tim Cain and Chris Taylor's stories on why the invasion time limit was patched are necessarily mutually exclusive. Chris and the team may've already planned to patch the time limit out of dissatisfaction with how the mechanic was implemented, or they may have simply went "yeah fair enough we didn't like how it turned out either" after getting the order rather than put up resistance like some other people may've done in the same position.
Fixit and Et Tu partially restore it, but I don't think it's possible to restore entirely due to how much wasn't completed or was in a state where it's unclear what the devs wanted
You know, that's a good point. How many games do have a hard set time limit to the story line like fallout? There's games like Mario or Tony hawk that have a level time, but I can't think of any that do it like fallout. Anyone else think of any?
It's because time limits are stupid, especially in an open world game where the time limit forces you to ignore 99% of the details put into the game. I mean time limits work great for arcade games where they need a reason to force you into feeding the game more quarters, or for turn based strategy games, but open world games and time limits don't mix.
Only Pathologic off the top of my head, and there are a few mechanics in The Void that seem similar like bosses that appear only after a certain amount of time (haven't played that one yet), Ice Pick Lodge really obviously loved Fallout 1 a lot.
Visiting settlements your character had once seen thriving and full of life only to be met with empty streets would’ve been harrowing. Seeing the Children of the Cathedral’s actual use would’ve been super cool too. Crazy how much dialogue and alternate set pieces were crafted just for this to be scrapped. Are they any mods which completely restore all this?
Fixit and Et Tu do
@@TriangleCity really? Damn. Time to play Fallout again
@@TriangleCity do those restore everything here or just the invasions? Ik Fixt at least restores the time limit. This vid got me wanting to do a replay now, thanks bro.
Also could you tell me what the music at 12:20 is?
It restores a variety of cut stuff and has a lot of options of what you want installed or not. You can even pick the intended invasion time limit or choose a far longer one.
What?@@TriangleCity
To me, the original super mutants invasions is one of the definitive examples of unrealized content from Fallout as a whole. It's such an interesting idea that has never returned in any of the other games, or really games in general. I understand that some people dislike time limits, but I think that mods for FO1 can show that having options is the perfect compromise.
Ah yes, my fallout flavored sleep aid
It’s all fun and games until it auto plays the cut fire screaming video at 4am
@@napalmmonkey only every night lmao
@@napalmmonkey Mystery of the Druids by mandaloregaming lol
I'm glad I'm not the only one. 😅
Mmmmm tastes like uranium
Favourite investigative Fallout channel. If you don’t get the water chips in time, all the water chips from Vault City in FO2 will come for you. All. The. Chips.
@kevalyarathore223 the real invasion
i used to play animal crossing ambience for my 3 year old to sleep, but lately we've been watching your videos to go to bed 😭 he's taken such an interest in these videos and it's so sweet
Awwwww 😭😭😭😭😭😭
I think the best way to deal with the time limits would've been a setting.
By default, have no time limit but have the option to set some more generous time limits for additional immersion and what not, or even some more punishing time limits for additional challenge.
Tough thing to do in a satisfying way, without the player already having played through the game it would be unclear to them what is a challenging setting, impossible setting, too easy etc
@@obnoxiouspedant Well that's why the default setting should be to not have the time limit... So someone playing through the game for the first time can do it at their own pace, and not risking soft-locking themselves due to not knowing what they need to do.
@@Lagbeard fair point yeah, I just think then it would lose all the impact it would have had as a memorable experience, because you've already played through it ya get me
@@obnoxiouspedant I think it would still carry its impact on a second playthrough if you never saw it on the first one. Honestly, if you go into your second playthrough thinking you know what you're going to get and then the game throws that big of a curveball at you, that could actually have an even bigger impact. Just look at Mr. X in Resident Evil 2. He didn't even show up until your second playthrough in the original game, but that only made encountering him even more of a shock. Now he's one of the most iconic enemies in the franchise
Possibly the worst way. They already cut it, because it'd be too much time. Now imagine having to put additional setting on it and then make sure they actually work.
Since Tim Cain has stated Star Control 2 (The Ur-Quan Masters) as one of his favorite games, I'm not surprised he wanted to include the invasions as that bears similarity to the Korh-Ar death march.
You just made me love Tim Cain 10x more
I didn't know that was what likely inspired the invasion mechanic; as it almost replicates the same mechanics used in Star Control 2. You have tons of time there, with enough wiggle room to do extra before the Space Spiders try to get to you, and even are encouraged to visit planets that once helped you which leads to *Shenanigans* from a few of them. Same thing here with the muties, you don't have infinite time and your time is rapidly consumed in small events but you had enough wiggle room once more to do quite a bit.
The invasion idea seems like it was going to be used in Van buren, but for the new plague, killing off settlements
X-COM taught me to enjoy feeling the pressure of time limits
OG X-Com made it an art form. That game was sooooo gooooood
Dead rising is a perfect example of how to use time limits. And deadrising 4 shows how you remove agencey by taking them out. Would they be good for fallout yes if you want to play hardcore . Or no for playing it like a sandbox.
This reminded me of something from the OG System Shock. That game had multiple difficulty sliders, including for combat, puzzles, and plot, and you could play with any combination of them. When turned up to maximum, the plot slider gave you a six hour time limit. I've never heard of that in any other game, and I think it would fit Fallout and the invasion system perfectly.
The super mutant who helps you fight the master is sick, really humanised them more
The time limit sucks. But. I'll never forget my first time playing Fallout and finally finding the damn chip. I was down to a couple days left. I headed back to the Vault, and "fast travel" was excruciatingly slow. Tick, tick, tick. I made it back JUST in time.
Gotta thank you Triangle, you inspired me to look into Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky and it was very funny seeing their reaction to the time limit when they played Fallout.
This is actually very cool. I wish they kept it and improved it. Really reminds me of the Ur Quan Death March, who, once victorious against their non genocidal brethren, go on a crusade against every faction, friendly or not, with the last target being Earth.
My main complaint about the invasion mechanic is how soon the invasion starts. 90 days before Adytum is destroyed is really fast. I know I didn't get there anywhere near that quickly first time I played. Also, the gap between Shady Sands and the Vault falling is nearly half the available limit, and you end up looking at over 200 days of there being nothing but you and the super mutants in the world. I feel like they should have added 100-200 days to each settlement's destruction, or started the timer once the player wiped out the mutants in Necropolis, or some combination of the two. Adytum being destroyed 190 days after starting the game or 90 days after hitting Necropolis would make it a lot less punishing I think.
It'd be interesting to have a version of this for New Vegas, where the Legion slowly advances and takes over various locations in the Mojave. It'd be less terrifying than the F1 version, as most NPCs would survive (sorry Boone), but it'd show the Legion as an advancing threat.
I like it when games abstract certain things like the tile traveling because it represents your characters skill, not yours or meta knowledge and you can use your imagination a bit more for what the world look like. Plus it help developer in the fact they don't have to map out and add assets to every square mile.
If there's a Fallout 1 remake, I think having the day limit would really make the game stand out. I know people hate timers, but for such a harrowing experience, I think it'd be worth it.
There is Vault 13 being made for Fo4 Right now with the help of Project Arroyo's team.
will be interesting if they add this into it
I love how Bethesda could add a Timed Mode to any game though. Base game you can do whatever, kill what you want, explore, all that. Timed Mode really makes you hunker down and realize what is truly important to finishing the main objective of the game.
How exactly would you even time the main quest of Fallout 3? Project Purity has been rusting away for like 20 years before the game even starts, so it's not like it's suddenly going anywhere. Beyond that you have the chase after Dad, but what, is he gonna suddenly drop dead? How would you even know about it?
The whole main plot would have to be restructured.
In Fallout 4, similarly, everything has been going on for many years and it's not until the PC makes an appearance that things start moving. Still, what exactly would you time in that game? "Institute has an evil plan to replace all humans with synths and are going to launch a massive invasion in 200 days"? Again, the whole plot would need to be remade to warrant a timer.
IMO this seems like the best way to do a main rpg quest. In Skyrim I have multiple characters that have never started the civil war or dragon questlines. I've never finished Fallout 4's main quest. If the game doesn't make me do it right away, then I'll do all the side quests first. Even though I know it will break progression for me its what I've done since Far Cry 3. A timer or something is great to me because without it "A player will optimize the fun out of a game." Unsure whom the quote came from but I'll be damned if it isn't true.
I think post-Oblivion content creep would make timelimits in Bethesda games more of a net negative than a net positive. There's so much world to explore and sidequests to do that, if you have a ticking clock on the main quest that ended the game, much of that side content would never be experienced.
I wasn't very clear in my op. I need an incentive to do the story quests. If i can do it at any time with no restrictions that's the path I'm gonna take. A time system is just one example of fixing it. @@derkylos
@@davidteachout1888 My counter is that if there's a time limit on the story quests, you disincentivise exploration or doing sidequests.
@@derkylos like I said it doesn't have to be a timer just a reason to do it.
@@davidteachout1888 Time limits ruin games. You put a time limit on a game, you might as well not bother with an open world concept because 99% of your open world game will just be ignored because the time crunch the limit puts on the players. The best way to do an RPG is ax the time limits for quests/missions and just let the player explore the damned world at their own pace.
Here we go again, I had no idea anything related to the time limit of all things was cut. Thank you as always.
Great video, I don't think I've seen the time limits explained in such a detailed fashion before. Also, for anyone who wants to experience the invasions, Fallout Et Tu mod brings them back and allows you to customize after how many days each place gets invaded.
I think it also lets you customize the water chip time limit as well, if you think 150 days is too little or too much.
That would have been a really mean fakeout, if you lost that much time from getting water for the vault. That's like rareware levels of "screw you, player, lol" Also, what is that sad song you use sometimes? The one that played in the cut fallout tactics video and the cut invasion segment.
I highly doubt many people ever noticed that different map tiles have different traveling speed. I don't remember it being mentioned in the manual or any guide I came across back in the day either. Everyone just beelined towards the next destination.
I believe it gets mentioned in the F1 ultimate guide, but I might be wrong
I recall a similar game mechanic existed in Exile III: Ruined World. If you took too long to deal with the various plagues in the land like slimes or giant roaches, entire towns would eventually be overrun and destroyed. While it certainly doesn't take 500 in-game days to finish Fallout 1 (or at least kill the Master as the document says) doing it in time to save groups like the ghouls of Necropolis and the Followers of the Apocalypse would have made for a harrowing challenge.
What a great game that was. So far ahead of its time. I kind of like the remasters, but I always miss the depth and complexity of the original release. I remember jokingly asking Jeff Vogel on his Facebook when he would bring his games to Steam, and he ended up doing it a week later. What a chad.
Thanks very much for covering this, I've always been wondering about the details of the super mutant invasion in Fallout 1 the first time I returned to Necropolis.
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I can understand why they cut it, for players to be abble to play the side quests, but they could have made a hard mode where this invasion would happen
I miss when RPG cared about this shit
I had a bug? where I would meet a trader as a random encounter and you could ask about locations. First time he just gives a description but when I met him for a second time he would just say "over run by mutants last I heard". I would go there an nothing had occured so I don't know if its cut content that got missed or something.
I don't understand why they cut this. It sounds like a much more compelling narrative.
babe wake up, triangle city uploaded
So she could fall asleep again lmfao
Has anyone played the game with the Fallout Fixt mod ? Oppinions on it.
As I read the full version, it has the invasion and other stuff added back to the game. I have not played with it, but I now have plans to do so.
its good
Fallout Et Tu is more up to date, it ports the game to Fallout 2's engine and also brings back cut features and adds some optional stuff, plus you can customize the invasion time limits.
I did very recently, I forgot I had it installed lol. I lost a lot of the world map before I realised what was going on, which was fine for me (i've played Fallout 1 a ton of times) but it would be less fun if it was my first time playing. Definitely a 2nd or 3rd time playthrough setting, imo.
I haven't personally tried Fixt, but to me it sounded like even with the "purist" install options it came with too many changes I didn't really want in my game.
I'd imagine the Et Tu mod for FO2 is the better choice, like quaker said.
Ya know, why wouldn't shady sands be attacked first? Doesn't the army come from mariposa?
that’s a good observation
Also possibility cause it’s kinda strategically irrelevant
I played Fallout with the invasions included, and let me tell you: It does NOT make the experience better. By the time I made it to the Boneyard, the place had already been destroyed.
The problem with the restorations is that the design was never finished. There were meant to be ways to add time to the invasions and additional content that came alongside the invasions that would've made it much different.
Wait that brotherhood of steel guy voices Long Feng from Avatar the last airbender
Could they have given an option where you could choose to have or not a time limit..... THAT would make for some challenging gaming.
Wow man, that OG Diablo music was good to hear. Thumbs up.
Your videos are so detailed and interesting. I couldn't stop watching your FNV Cut Content series. Thank you for your hard work!
As a player who generally hates time limits, I had a lot of concern going into Fallout 1 knowing of the water chip time limit. But it ended up being such a non-factor…I think I finished with 75% of the time remaining or something like that.
The invasion mechanic seems ripe for a mod. Add a new layer of complexity for experienced players.
I didn't know you could use the science skill on the vats computer to blow it up. I thought you had to use bombs, and I always played high int characters as well!
*You take a sip from your trusty Vault 13 canteen*
These videos are great. Thanks Trianglecity
It’s too bad that we don’t have something akin to Daggerfall Unity that ports Fallouts 1/2 (and maybe Tactics) to a much more flexible engine that makes modding the game much easier. Then we could have mods that add cut content like this and other things that couldn’t be done to time/engine limitations. As well as having various quality of life improvements and bug fixes that make those old games more friendly to newcomers. Some guy has been recreating Fallout 2 as an fps/rog hybrid, but it has some rough edges and certain things can’t be faithfully translated from one genre to another because they don’t feel right.
There is a decomp available for FO1 and 2, but I don't know if anyone's done anything notable with it yet. All I'm aware of is a "community edition" by the same guy who did the decomp, which adds some QoL improvements but not really enough to make it worth playing over a modded FO2.
The fact this feature was half cut, but never fully cut leads to some weird stuff in the timeline.
In the official timeline of events from Fallout 2, the Vault Dweller kills the Master on March 3rd(super early compared to most players FYI), just two days before the planned conquest of the Boneyard. That seems really intentional, as most players at the time went after the Vats first, so changing that to ensure everyone survives and having it happen by less than 48 hours of difference all speaks of them working around it.
HOWEVER, if this was the case Necropolis would be fine as the Master was killed a few weeks before their fall date. And yet canonically they aren't.
Mariposa falls in Mid April canonically, which is actually a week after The Hub was supposed to fall. Granted, stopping the Master should stop the Invasion, but still...
I can't help but wonder, if part of this is them trying to work around the bugs(Necropolis is the only place where we can actually see the mutant invasion happen on the ground, killing the master first is the only ending that will ever play), so incorporating that into the timeline was somewhat forced. I get that. Have the Master die a few weeks later, Necropolis falls and The Hub survives, that's all fine.
Except in NV they have the Followers of the Apocalypse survive, despite them being the first on the chopping block in Fallout 1 AND despite their ending also being bugged to always end badly even if you hurry due to the spy quest being broken. So either the Master did die on March 3rd and their fine, and the Necropolis should be too, or he died after The Necropolis fell and the Followers should be gone as well.
If I was the one in charge of cleaning up this timeline I'd have both the Followers and Necropolis wiped out, the Master and Mariposa taken out close together in Late March and Early April, and The Hub just barely escape full invasion by the skin of it's teeth. That last detail would also explain why Shady Sands ended up unifying the region, and not The Hub(who literally invented and controlled the main currency, Hub Script AKA Caps, and have trading connection to everyone) who seemingly was in the process of doing it in Fallout 1. If they were only JUST saved from full invasion by a few days you could easily say that they suffered massive losses of their Caravans out in the West to the mutants(which is already confirmed in game) and that many people were killed by forward scouting attacks of the Master's Army aided by the Cathedral and Jain(who are also there in the final game). That would set them back massively and by the time they were getting back on their feet in the 2090s Shady Sands would already have unified with Junktown and overtaken them. That makes sense to me.
As cool as this is, I'm the sort of player who hates the vampire invasions in Skyrim so I'd probably end up hating this mechanic in practice
Time is an underutilized mechanic in gaming. It’s underutilized because its a punishing game mechanic and a complete turn off to any casual fan of any game…
Not only that, it disincentivizes players from actually exploring the world which means 99% of the details you put into the world, the years of work, the blood, sweat and tears you shed working on it, would all be wasted and pointless as no one would bother even looking for them because "ain't nobody got time fer dat".
The soft time limit angle always kind of reminded me of how Star Control 2/The Ur-Quan Masters handled the whole "Doctrinal War" subplot. I can kind of see why the time pressure angle got dialled back on future installments since implementing that kind of thing imposes pretty major restrictions elsewhere in the game design process, but it might be nice to see the fixed/extendable time limit make a comeback as an optional modifier for survival mode at some point?
Come to think of it, a few other mid-late '90s/early '00s games with sim elements I could name tried to do something similar. System Shock, Daggerfall, Shenmue and Majora's Mask (As alluded to in the video) for instance. I think Majora kind of got by on making the real-time aspect a core, heavily advertised feature and a conscious one-off -- and letting the player keep the time limit from creating hard fail states by time travel.
I love playing with the invasion modded in Fallout 1, it add so much gravitas. All the people you saved, you trade with, you even just talked to. They are about to be walked on by that massive army of mutants.
There's a game called Star Control 2 that has a similar idea of a not-initially known antagonist having a time limit based invasion over the map. It also has ways to delay it, with a hard game over if earth is destroyed. It was cool but was also such a long time limit that whist you knew it would happen and its neat to do to see the dialouge, its not a threat unless you are struggling with the game.
Time limits are never fun for me, playing games my whole life has taught me to explore the world and look in every corner. Like in dead rising the time limit makes me not want to play at all
I hate to just rip on new game design just for the sake of being topical. But it really does feel like older games understood their limitations better.
I know it's different studios but for the sake of entertainment what if I told you environmentally Starfield and Fallout 1 are just as empty. Fallout 1 is constructed in a way the player can fill in the gaps and it works. Starfield just tells you in believe in the void and that's it. No imaginion to be had
I think some of thebinvasion times could have been bumped back a bit (90 days is freaking rough) but otherwise its a really cool mechanic and a shame to see it cut
If you didn't screwed himself over at least once by getting ALL Brotherhood surgeries before returning water chip you've played Fallout WRONG.
What’s the song at 12:20 ?
Wow. After like 15 years since I first played Fallout I learned that the second timer (Vault 13 being raided by the Master) was actually effectively removed the entire time.
One issue i think the developers considered that led to incasions being removed is the fact that possible interactions with Super Mutants and the Children would be extremely limited on a story and roleplaying level, even if you played a character who wanted to join the Master. Settlements seeing the regular NPCs replaced with Super Mutants would generally mean that you'd either be doing a lot more combat, which would require more work to make meaningful, aka counterinvasions, or you'd be stuck interacting with a gradually thinning cast and thus exhaust their available content even faster. Clearly the means for a more tug of war, back and forh sandbox were outside the team's resources and own development timelines.
Where did you get those code decompiles from? Are they real or mock ups?
From the Fallout reverse engineer project on github
@@TriangleCity thank you!
I think you used the wrong ending slides when you mentioned the good and bad ending for the brotherhood of steel (it’s the other way around I think)
Babe wake up, new fallout development video just dropped
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Since I got with my girl I have genuinely missed sleeping to trianglecity
I think they should have added this in even as an expansion. Making the masters army an actual threat if left unchecked seems awesome
whats the music at 11:56? it's great.
2:15 [You take a sip from your trusty Vault 13 Canteen]
Still going strong i see!
Wtf. My notifications turned off. Im late to the party
Another excellent video. Thank you!
Whats the music that starts playing around 2:52?
I doom vault 13 because screw the overseer
I would like to see you cover some Wasteland 1/2/3/Fountain of Dreams cut content, I'm assuming you've at least played the main three games by this point.
i love the music choices of the videos
whats the music at 12:38 called?
We so need a mod to implement this
The "official guide" is full of bs, you shouldn't trust it.
There are so many false things in it
Pretty much everything it mentions about the invasion is backed by code or dev commentary tho
7:37 killing yourself by returning to a vault with no chip wouldnt make any sense.
Rather, this sounds like you return with the chip, but ignore the master. You reintegrate into the vault, and then after about a month the master invades the vault for fresh meat.
Some things I didn't notice because I get extremely anxious when put on a time limit is, bodies and chests respawn loot as well as venders restoring their caps in only a day. I usually get my caps by going to the hub, saving, pickpocketing the guards and selling their ammo and shotguns lol
keep it up big dog. i love seeing u alongside my recommendations with Synonymous and rad king
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The holy Triangle of fallout content creators
I think it would be so interesting if one of the many, many open world games implemented some gradual invasion mechanic. Start you off in a low level area, let you slowly explore further away, when at a certain point some invasion starts, overrunning first the low level area, forcing the player into the mid level area, before coming back to the now high level occupied zone.
Love your content bro. And I love FNV, but the more OG fallout content I watch the more I want to play the older games. Warlockracy makes great fallout 1/2 content.
Why didnt they just make the vault 13 water timer a toggle for those wanting more difficulty?
For once I am thankful for youtube recommendations. Great vid, really wish I'd discovered the channel sooner
I feel like more games should have a timer. Dead Rising and Majora’s Mask are great games that utilize a timer as well
Normally I hate time limits, but it's pretty liberal and I like how it makes the game seem more of an adventure, and less like a "DO EVERYTHING" fest where you lose the thread amongst 100 side quests and suddenly you're 200 hours in and haven't touched the main quest.
Let’s GOOOOOO
Thank you Mr. Three sides my fnv and fo3 keep crashing on my PC lol so this is a close second
Ah yes two things gamers love , Time Limits and Escort Quests.
≠ D
Came for the fallout content stayed for the castelevania music
Oh man... played Fallout back in the day. Every new thing was a discovery.
Baltimore
Do the green / 3d models still live within the game files?
was that the hub village music i hear from Diablo 1 lol?
i like time limits in quests as long as its stated that it IS a timed quest.
Thanks for the video city boy
I love how your dope lofi intro gives me them goodfeels, then the outro gives me a sense of longing for what could have been. A bittersweetness.
But forreal, your intro and outro hits hard. Love your content and all of course too. I love how you dig so far down to give us all these little tidbits. So thank you.
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You've been a mainstay on my timeline for over 5 years now. Loving your work sir
Oh dang im early lol good stuff so far😤
I don't think Tim Cain and Chris Taylor's stories on why the invasion time limit was patched are necessarily mutually exclusive. Chris and the team may've already planned to patch the time limit out of dissatisfaction with how the mechanic was implemented, or they may have simply went "yeah fair enough we didn't like how it turned out either" after getting the order rather than put up resistance like some other people may've done in the same position.
Fascinating video. So is there any way to restore any of this cut content?
Fixit and Et Tu partially restore it, but I don't think it's possible to restore entirely due to how much wasn't completed or was in a state where it's unclear what the devs wanted
You know, that's a good point. How many games do have a hard set time limit to the story line like fallout? There's games like Mario or Tony hawk that have a level time, but I can't think of any that do it like fallout. Anyone else think of any?
It's because time limits are stupid, especially in an open world game where the time limit forces you to ignore 99% of the details put into the game. I mean time limits work great for arcade games where they need a reason to force you into feeding the game more quarters, or for turn based strategy games, but open world games and time limits don't mix.
@@Princess_Celestia_Fallout still has a time limit and is considered to be one of the best CRPGs ever, so they do mix lol
Only Pathologic off the top of my head, and there are a few mechanics in The Void that seem similar like bosses that appear only after a certain amount of time (haven't played that one yet), Ice Pick Lodge really obviously loved Fallout 1 a lot.
Great video young man, but truly I don't give a damn about these games. I just need sound for honk shoo honk shoo 😴😴