Music Chat: Artists Really DON'T Matter, or, Gergiev's Ass Gets Canned
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มี.ค. 2022
- Dumping conductor Valery Gergiev for his support of Vladimir Putin and his barbaric invasion of Ukraine was a no-brainer. More interesting, to me anyway, is that fact that this "painful" decision for so many performing arts organization will make no difference at all because, as I've long maintained, most classical artists just don't matter.
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Dear Dave, you old fool. Now I am addicted to your amazing channel. You are charming, humorus, sharp, hilarious and you can expose all those boring and overated artists and conductors. Just keep this amazing work. I hope classical music will never die. You are such a big part of my love to classical music. Take care.
Thank you!
So true! But I've also learned not to dig too deep into the views of those treasured artists who do matter! It always ends in tears...Never ask a great artist for their views of the world! By virtue of their mono focal obsession from early childhood onwards, they often don't have formed opinions at all; or possess the kind of authoritarian personality that should disqualify them permanently from civic participation...
Absolutely!!
Exactly. Some of them become the kind of person who would fire someone from their job because of their political opinions. That kind of inquisitor's mentality seems unfortunately very common among artists and art lovers.
"world's busiest conductor" should be taken with a grain of salt, considering Gergiev is known for delegating most rehearsals to his assistances and just getting on stage for the concert.
According to one Russian musical journalist who keeps (kept) track of Gergiev's movements - the latter conducted no less than 315 times last year which is even more impressive considering the corona...
'World's busiest conductor' sort of sounds like a backhanded compliment, like Spinal Tap being England's 'Loudest Band'
@@andreykonovalov2324 do you mean Vadim Zhuravlev ?
@@ediccartman7252 Bingo!
Thanks for the much needed laugh in somber times. Enjoyed it. Loved the allusion to Frau Blücher !
In reference to the organization that tracks how busy performers are.... I wonder if there is an organization that ranks levels of perspiration produced during performances ( and perhaps, interviews...)
Thank you for this video. It made me smile
Something I learned early in my checkered career is that no one is indispensable to her/his employers. Not me, not you, not Gergiev, and we hope soon, not Putin.
Very true. That's why I'm self-employed.
I don't think Putin has an employer, which is the scary part.
i had a roommate a while back who insister over and over that his boss could not get along without him. i thought: you are an arrogant, stupid, supercilious ass, and one day your (wait) ass will be canned by this boss
@@fuchouchiang5797 Tyrants have been deposed, Russian ones included. [My exit line to this thread.]
@@paxpaxart4740 and he was right. he was in a position to know how true that way
David, I love the Rotterdam Philharmonic. I live in London and before the virus I used to hop over there by a short flight to hear their concerts... I love this orchestra and the other Dutch ones as well....
The speed with which Gergiev was dumped by all those orchestra's only shows that these organisations were very eager to dump this jerk. He was horrible to work with, didn't show up for rehearsals, and behaved badly.
@@onnoalink6694 Thank you very much for your reply David.... good to know this inside information.
I did much like his Alexander Nevsky (I think it was a somewhat extended album or box, with cover art with flame-like patterns around a horn-bearing metal helmet. I don't quite remember if there were eyes peering out from within the helmet or not.) In any case, I saw him on tour giving a live performance of this work as well, along with footage of the famous Eisenstein film. It was a great experience. The music was everything it needed to be for the different scenes, and the musical heart of old Russia was made to flow though the music performance, even though it was Prokofiev who used the score, in ways of his choosing, to attempt to evoke all that. Thus he was still as able to contrive a great atmospheric score.
I've always wondered about his peculiar beat (like those minute little shakes he gives to each beat). I can imagine many orchestral musicians rolling their eyes, "not this guy again!"
Well, no musicians will have to roll their eyes again, that's for sure!
I like to follow your views, Mr Hurwitz, which matter more than the trends and star system built by the musical corporate complex. Thank you for your sanity.
I very, very briefly worked in the administration department of Carnegie Hall, close to ten years ago now. Gergiev was guest conducting there for an evening, and it actually attracted a group of protestors outside the hall. Nothing came of it, the concert went on without a hitch, and the Carnegie Hall admin's response was essentially a collective shrug.
His coziness with Putin has always been known, it's only now, when it affects their bottom line, that orchestras and art administrations care.
Naturally.
Hypocrisy is the name of the game. Moral stances count only when these coincide with interest. That's how human primates are made.
@@massawax Sometimes.
@@DavesClassicalGuide most of times. I'm Russian and I fully condemn what Putin's army did with Ukraine . With that said, I doubt the guys in Met or Scala really care about what's happening. They've just made their calculations - how much money they lose, "cancelling" Gergiev vs what they lose, if they don't.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Don't tell me you believe in immanent justice...
I love your verdict on the intellectual capacity of opera singers. As a pianist who has accompanied a fair number of them, this has been exactly my experience, too. :D
“So it really doesn’t matter whom you put upon the list
They’d none of ‘em be missed-they’d none of ‘em be missed.”
G & S The Mikado
Just so.
Well-deserved. Maybe now he'll start paying attention to his home theater again. The latest years were a period of constant decline of the profesionalism of the Mariinsky orchestra because Gergiev didn't give a sh&t about them and was rather busy with well-paid european tourné. Now it will be different for him.
Mariinsky has a lot of high-level musicians , the problem is that Gergiev doesn't have time to rehearse ( many times what you hear in Mariinsky is "rehearsal" for Gergiev's upcoming concerts in Europe).
Frankly, I don’t gave damn about the competence of the Mariinsky orchestra.
Among the lines of the Russian repertoire that Gergiev did well, was his set of Tchaikovsky ballets on the same tier as the Prokofiev and Rimsky-Korsakov operas?
Not quite. Stiff competition there.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you sir. I just found your video on Slatkin's set of them; I'll give them a look.
Hi Dave. I take your point that no one’s life will end due to Gergiev being ‘canned’. HOWEVER…. I like his Tchaikovsky 4th (my favourite Tchaikovsky) and I once heard/saw him at the Salle Pleyel in Paris: Mahler 1 & 5! What a marathon that was!! I mostly remember his stubble. I was sitting towards the front. Love your work, Gregg, Australia.
Translation: “Gergiev was boring and probably asked for too much money, but we engaged him since he brought in audiences. Now he would only bring in protests and boycotts, so we can dump his ass.”
Ha ha
David, I have learned a new Americanism that you reiterated variously throughout your piece"we've canned your ass" - first time I have heard this.
A bit of slang!
David, your genius of memory in immediately recalling every performance you have heard is now being challenged for supremacy by your gift for stand up comedy... you are a born performer, and very funny too.
@@antoineduchamp4931 Thank you.
Your analysis on how classical music is mostly comprised of performing the same works is very sharp. This is why I didn't go into piano: I knew I would be expendable. All these young musicians playing the same repertoire are going to find a rude awakening soon
I seem to be the only one in this comment section who doesn't care about the politics of Gergiev or Netrebko. ha. And yes, their loyalties make it easy to fault them, but i also don't know what their situation is, or what the implications of denouncing Putin could mean for them and their families. Is there a danger? I really don't know, but idc either way...I'm not throwing out my Gergiev recordings, or my vodka bottles, or my copy of Crime & Punishment, or any other peformative nonsense that people are currently engaging in. Agh....where exactly does one draw the line in all of this???
Idk, but one thinks about Furtwangler under Hitler, Shostakovich under Stalin, even Dudamel and Maduro (ha), Alfred Cortot, Celine, Wagner, Gesualdo, Eric Sodding Clapton, whoever...it really doesn't matter as i will continue to appreciate all of those bums, Gergiev and Netrebko included..
That's your prerogative. Good for you.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I enjoyed the video.
Who cares about the politics here? The Russian invasion is real and bloody.
@@ahartify I never denied that, but ok....
What would a decent person do in this situation then???
Denounce Gergiev and Netrebko on Twitter?
Send a strongly worded DM?
Refuse to listen to their music? Throw it out?
Burn a conductor's baton? What?
Thanks, Dave for a great video. I agree with you on the Prokofiev and the Rimsky operas--they were very well done. I heard through the grapevine when he was guest conductor at the MET that there were complaints about his lack of personal hygiene to be polite, and who in the name of God conducts with a toothpick?? After he conducted in Palmyra when the Russians were bombing women and children,he joins HVK in Hades as an unprincipled egotist as far as I am concerned.
PS Denis Matsuev was also canned by Carnegie Hall.
I interviewed him a couple of times. He was pretty scruffy, but that's not a musical issue.
To quote W.S. Gilbert, he is a "very imperfect ablutioner." The toothpick is nuts but even worse is his latterday disrespect and boorish behavior towards orchestras such as keeping 3 phones on his podium and taking and making calls during the rehearsals he deigns to hold while the orchestra sits.
@@bbailey7818 clearly that orchestra does not have a union contract. if he pulled that in most major cities in the u.s. the union rep, who times the rehearsals, would inform v.g. when they had ended. it may be an apocryphal story, but supposedly when the cso was recording one day, the union rep stopped the recording 3 or 4 bars from the end as 'time was up.'
@@brucemiller5356 Oh I'm not surprised by that rehearsal story. I have a recording of a live performance of Victor Herbert's Natoma that was literally stopped 8 bars from the end to avoid costly overtime pay. The conductor explains to the audience wgat's missing.
@@bbailey7818 i am pro-union, but sometimes they go too far
I am making a drinking game with this -- drink every time Dave says "canned your ass".
Maybe the Rotterdam Philharmonic should turn its festival into an "Antoni Wit festival" ? That, at least, would guarantee some splendid performances of undeservedly neglected repertoire. And then Naxos could take that as a cue to assemble an "Antoni Wit" box... High time ! :)
dont worry, the newest, shiniest and least competent( but hwo cares about that) and most popular in social media will be the ones with their names on festivals:-)
I certainly won't miss his Mahler recordings. And I'm looking forward to the 'alternatives.' 'Mr Gergiev did not respond.' Love it.
Incredible!!! Thank you for posting!
I wonder how long will Mr Netrebko remain in his position as BOGOF spouse/ artiste?
I guess I have turned into my parents: when I compare the performances of today's conductors with the ones from my youth, they don't measure up. I am happy to get out my old recordings and have at it
there were different conditions then, different expectations. it's ironic, cos conductors today have all the opportunities for a great training as conductors( which the older gens didn't. in all three cases of Karajan, Koussevitsky and Stockowski it was their first rich wives who paid for their debuts and orchestras to 'practice' with , Koussy's most famous steamboat he hired to fill with musicians and they travelled working so he could practice. etc. The biggest issue now starts with the low low expectations by musicians and the industry itself, forgetting it's classicla music not pop-rock etc and obsessing more than ever with youth and sex appeal. THere are quite a few excellent conductors I personally had the pleasure to meet and evaluate myself, but none of them get record deals: they lack the looks and youth and social media following etc, in other words, stuff that don't matter. in a nutshell...
Sometimes it might be useful to confront the artist with the horror of what has happened. As a young 14-year-old my first BBC prom was a concert in August 1968 when by sheer coincidence the USSR Symphony Orchestra were visiting for two concerts. I will remember the reception the orchestra received when they appeared on the very evening that Russian tanks had invaded Czechoslovakia. The final amazing coincidence was that Rostropovich played the Dvorak cello concerto with tears running down his face. The atmosphere was unlike any other concert I have ever been to and you can hear recordings of Dvorak and Shostakovich if you have the old BBC legends recordings. I want to message the orchestra took back with them…
Joseph, I was there as well.... the atmosphere you could have cut with a knife... all we could think of was Czechoslovakia... how similar things are now. I am old enough to remember the invasion of Hungary in 1956 when I was very young. How good to hear from someone else who was at the Rostropovich concert. I felt sorry for the orchestra... they had no part in anything...
Apparent;y Svetlanov was terrified he was going to be assassinated during the concert, and only managed to get through the performance with the assistance of several bottles of brandy
@@josephgreen8149 That I did not know Joseph, but from what I have heard of persons from this culture, they have a fondness for a drop of the hard stuff at the best of times. I did not know Svetlanov was fearful of being assasinated.... I have always had such respect for him as a conductor. Do you have his box CDs of the music to Swan Lake....? out of this world.
...since few days ,i listen my cd's of national symphony orchestra of ukraine.... ( kuchar)....for me,this is my way to have a thought about this people ,this country,who is suffering in this moment.....i read he have few days this phrase.....'' for one other world,the earth is the hell....?''
i have a recording he and the ukranian national orchestra did of vasily s. kalinnikov very fine recording
I guess this means you won't be doing Gergiev in your "10 Best Recordings" series any time soon. :)
Why not?
The Gergiev box review is going to be a major HOOT 🤣
The conductor, violinist, and countertenor (Lord help us) for this weekend’s concert at the St. Louis Symphony, Dmitry Sinkovsky, had to be replaced as he is “unable to travel to St. Louis this week.” Who knows why exactly this Russian person couldn’t make it, but since the headliner for the concert was and still is Mozart’s Requiem, the change might go unnoticed.
how can one man be the conductor, violinist, and countertenor...or were these roles at different concerts. otherwise this sounds like a skit from 'your show of shows.' (that'll show you how old i am.')
@@brucemiller5356 No, same concert. He doesn’t do all three simultaneously (I think).
@@composingpenguin that is some show of viruosity
Darn I wanted to see all three together on a unicycle
So glad you posted this video. I will admit to attending some fiery Gergiev performances in LA way back in the day, but to judge from his recordings he has long since descended into waywardness and even incompetence. Have you seen Alex Ross's piece in The New Yorker? Kinda nails the whole sorry mess.
Don't even get me started on this topic. I'm done with the whole business of kotowing, cowering and laying wreaths upon these privileged prima donnas. Even rock stars don't behave like that. Jazz ones are happy if you pay any attention to them at all (except Miles Davis in his prime). The fault for all this lies with the cultural baggage of the classical music world itself. That's why I keep repeating - because I'm old and don't give a hoot - I like about half of the music in the classical music world, but can't stand the people - performers, administrators, audiences . . . the whole lot.
David , I don't know why you say his Bruckner is awful , for me his 4th and 7th are stunning. He feels this music , maybe slightly different to what the Western listeners are used to. And I think Mahler's cycle would've been more successful , if they didn't record in Barbican Hall ( I heard , this hall is notorious by its dry crappy accoustics). I listened to him, playing Mahler's 2nd many times ( including the very first time, I heard it in St-Petersbourg). I personally very like the madness, grotesque and cynicism he finds there. This is where Shostakovich's music comes from.
You can't understand why I don't like it when you do? Welcome to reality!
Really enjoyed this one! As an aside, can people recommend Ukrainian composers?I was trying to think of any and I honestly don't know any Ukrainian composers present or past
Silvestrov!
R. Gliere
Reinhold Gliere, Valentyn Silvestrov, Boris Lyatoshinsky.
Sergei Bortkiewicz is also excellent, but he self-identified as Russian, so he might or might not count depending on what definitions we’re using (he was born in Ukraine, partly Polish by ancestry)
Theodore Kuchar.
Mykola Lysenko
I just about spit out my coffee when David said "canned his ass". Never laughed so hard in my life.
I know. This was Dave at his comedic best!
What?? Why???
You are not cynical. As we would have said where I grew up in Red Hook, you "have been around the block," and have a good BS detector. I agree with you that Gergiev's cycle of the Prokofiev operas and other Russian operas are overall excellent. Apart from that and a few other works, I find him to be one of the most over-hyped and overrated conductors of the last zillion years. I find much of his work superficial and slick. Years ago, I remember his conducting of Verdi's Otello as grossly insensitive and manic. Of course, everyone around me at The Met, responded as if he were the second coming of Toscanini. The less said about Anna Netrebko, the better. Just like normal folks, artists make choices and they have to live with them.
Spot on! Well said.
More virtue signaling & canceling. Bandwagon mentality alive and well in the symphonic world. I agree with Hurwitz on his musical value or lack there of. I’m sure none of these moves will make a lick of difference, but at least these orchestra’s will feel better about themselves.
I'm all for virtue signaling myself.
I cannot agree more on the very basis of your reasoning. Pure factual truth and a lesson of iconoclastic logic.
While Anna Netrebko has tried without success to straddle the fence with regard to this current issue, I found this cringeworthy item on her from 2012:
Oh dear.
Gross. I've been cool on Netrebko for a long time because of her support for Putin and the separatists, but this is a new low. Then again it's so weird that I wonder if she was somehow made to say it. Putin definitely wants the world to think of him that way (remember the bizarre barechested horseback photo op? Incidents like that really reveal a lot about his psychology).
There are plenty of other great artists out there playing music. We don't need these two.
'Such a strong male energy.' There is medical talk he takes muscle steroids, which have the side-effect of making the user more aggressive.
Netrebko would be better off with a rabid Doberman Pinscher.
Now I feel guilty for laughing out loud in response to a news item related to Ukraine.
I was so delighted on hearing this news 🤣🤣
That’s for true!
Barcelona music lovers are very angry with Gergiev since 8 years ago. He and his orchestra came to Liceu to play Tristan und Isolde. We all payed around (or more) 100 euros for a ticket. They came completely unprepared and with a very clearly unrehearsed work. Orchestra was FULL of mistakes and played without any interest (completely flat playing). But the worst were the singers. An infamous Isolde (I do not even want to remember his name) that didn't sing, but simply shouted. A Tristan (Gambill) with NO voice (I was unable to hear a single note from first row second floor). They were loudly booed from the audience. It was a completely unrespectful attitude by Gergiev and Marisnky to ask 100 euros from audience for a completely unprofessional and (bad) amateurish playing (even an amateur orchestra and singers would have been better). We all music lovers at Barcelona remember that infamous night. Since then, I stopped listening any of his recordings or concerts. I believe his "canned ass" is some kind of "divine justice".
if there was justice based on musical reasons, like the ones you metioned, I'd call it justice. that a war had to break and for him to be siding with P , for that to happen so you can get some logic in the music world, it's just ... sad, and a sign of a bigger problem in the industry
Sweet, sweet vindication! Who knew Uncle Dave’s (correct) theory on artists generally not mattering would be confirmed by a personage as notorious as Vladimir Putin? The only Gergiev disc I own is an utterly pedestrian Mahler 7 with the LSO, which will be donated to the charity shop or the waste bin today. Who needs obituaries on this channel when we can have fun eulogizing the still living but ass canned!
Yes - I liked him early on as well. There were some great recordings. I will certainly not miss his silly toothpick. I love conductors who do not use the baton - and I think he was often one of those - but when I saw him conduct with what looked to me like a toothpick, I found that just ludicrous.
What do you actually have about his toothpick ? You can conduct with or without whatever you want, as long as it helps you to hold the orchestra.
@@ediccartman7252 Just a personal perception of how it looked to me. I suppose one COULD use a toothbrush or a backscratcher if one prefers. Glenn Gould has his tiny childhood chair that he preferred to sit in rather than a piano bench. I'd say might as well just use the hands and fingers alone. Not sure how well such a tiny implement could be seen by all members of the orchestra if meant to be a directional tool. I don't mean any profound or overly important judgement by it.
@@stevenklimecky4918 Gould had a back injury, so he couldn't sit on the piano bench. And even if he didn't , it's very harmful for your back anyway.
And VG - sometimes he takes a baton, sometimes a toothpick , sometimes with bare hands. In most of cases it doesn't really matter, if you don't conduct 300 people, like in Mahler's 8th symph ( then the baton is must). Other than that, it's a matter of your personal feeling in that particular day.
I wonder if Russian compositions themselves will be out of style for a while. I mean, is this a good time to schedule a performance of Prokofiev? Perhaps some Ukrainian composers will get some exposure and an overlooked classic will get "discovered".
I doubt anything will change in that respect. Tchaikovsky isn't going out of fashion because of Putin.
@@DavesClassicalGuide If you ever did a video about Ukrainian composers, I would definitely enjoy that.
I just watched Dave's video on Dmitri Klebanov. Worth checking out.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Neither will Shostakovich. I hope.
I'm annoyed that it took so long. I have always disliked that neanderthal impersonator, and for purely musical reasons. I don't know much about politics, and I don't pay any attention to it, but I do know when a conductor consistently produces boring, brutalist interpretations. He only ever conducted Russian composers well; whenever he laid his hands on non-Russian music, he invariably made it sound cold and brutish. It's as if foreign composers aren't worth his time.
I've got to wonder, if Gergiev is "cancelled", is Lisitsa as well?
Do we care?
@@DavesClassicalGuide lol I mean /I/ do, she's a damn good pianist. Does some interesting work too.
Shunned is a better word. “Canceled” is just a reactionary description intended to portray the shunners as somehow more interested in control than what’s right or wrong. Usually from people for whom such cancellations are second nature, but they don’t like it when it happens to one of their own.
@@MDK2_Radio I agree.
Gergiev's LSO Mahler was the first Mahler I had ever heard. I thought he was a rather dull composer until I discovered Bernstein's recordings...
Time to start making rubles for them. They did well enough with Euros and dollars. One can only hope they put it in Switzerland......
Gergiev's artistic conscience as well as his moral compass deserted him a good 20 years ago. Netrebko's best days are behind her. Neither is at all indispensible at this stage though I'll always be grateful for their work back in the Kirov days with that great series of Russian operas on Philips.
Anyway. Who was intimidated by his toothpick?
many stuffed dates were traumatized.....
I come back to this video a lot, not because of a change of opinions or any desire to review this biting and introspective criticism of Gergiev's career, but just to laugh at how you so delicately describe the West CANNING HIS ASS.
I thought you'd appreciate the TwoSet Violin tutorial "Learn to conduct like Gergiev in One Minute." As a result, any one can replace him.
Have toothpick will travel
no, because it's not about conducting, or music. that's not what creates power in classical music, unfortunateely. and we need to see inwardly.
okay, agreed on the political proclivities of gergiev. however, i am still glad i got the 2 disc set of p. tchaikovsky's symphonies 1-3, which are woefully treated. good news is taht i bought the discs used so v.g. will not get any moolah. these works were done with the lso and the lpo, and i can't keep up with your views on either orchestra. i will say that the symphonies are played very well, and i have enjoyed watching the man who shall remain nameless conducting the once-kirov band. but no more. he has had his day. i am wondering what will happen with two of my fave russkie pianists: anna federova and alexander malodeev. if you have or get info on either please pass it on. spasiba.
GREAT VIDEO DAVE!!!!!
I have disbanded Gergiev for 15 years for musical reasons, I will not miss him for one second. Thanks for this great video. In these sorrowfull months, Mozart, Silvestrov, Crumb are my listnening.
i know what you mean. i remember him giving a great interpretation of Tchaikovski's Pathetique in the early 90s. I almost couldn't believe it. but it seems there was a time he was a trully good musician
Nah nah nah nah. Nah nah nah nah. Hey hey hey. Goodbye!
David and the Hurwitz Commentary Geheimnis Polizei, Let me first state clearly that I love folks of all nationalities. I don't think anybody deserves the lousy leaders we get stuck with from time to time. This current video of David's had me laughing out loud. I think we need a new German word in our English vocabulary for the enjoyment of this kind of thing. I propose Schadenfreudefreude or SFF or even SF-squared. We we derive pleasure from deriving pleasure from people getting their come-uppance. Yes I like that so that would be cubed.
Putin is a nightmare on steroids. Supporting such a beast should get one's life put on hold. Karajan Heidegger and Furtwangler are all complicated cases (and quite dead). Petrenko's unfortunate views on women got his wrist slapped.
Although I agree we need artists, how much do we actually need any particular artist? I think that's David's central point. Especially if you're not doing something unique.
I'm sure this video has helped Dave's stats immensely on TH-cam, Smiles to DH. I think we all worked up about all this because it's truely awful what's happening in Ukraine and we're mostly helpless to do anything. So Please do what you can to help and try to promote peace. Love to all JIM
It neither helped nor harmed my stats on TH-cam, and that is not why I made the video. You were looking good until that bit of cynicism took over. Quit while you're ahead.
Bravo! Any entity (artistic, financial, commercial, etc) that remains aligned with Putin at this point must be cancelled.
But Gergiev was an easy call. How would you feel if the conductor in question was a genius who brought a unique forward-thinking approach to everything he touched?
That's the question, isn't it?
At least you don't think Gergiev is a genius. Good.
A conductor like James Levine, perhaps?
" How would you feel if the conductor in question was a genius who brought a unique forward-thinking approach to everything he touched?" - there is no such conductor.
@@ediccartman7252 There may be, and there have been, but I wouldn't care. I'd miss him or her, but screw them.
I heard this yesterday morning on the BBC. I was wondering if Anna Netrebko is going to get into trouble too. Now I know.
OMG, This one is so bitchy and so Great.
I can’t stop looping it, Thank You Dave.
Right on Our friend Dave.
I’m not trying to defend the guy (quite on the contrary), but Gergiev was stuck between a rock and a hard place here. If he denounces Putin, the state apparatus and the oligarchs who fund him would have relinquished their financial support the moment he opens his mouth, thus still ending his career. I guess he thought if he was going to go out, he might as well go out with a bang, and not be a turncoat. In some twisted way, I respect it, even if I hate everything he stands for.
Putin and the oligarchs do not pay his very generous salaries in Munich or Rotterdam.
Given how closely Gergiev has been aligned with Putin, if he had publicly abandoned him now he would likely have had to spend the rest of his life in exile, looking over his shoulder and wondering about what might be in any cup of tea or coffee he was served in a public place. Given all the money Gergiev has made, I suspect the financial considerations were secondary.
It's true that life in Russia would become intolerable for Gergiev if he condemned Putin. But nothing he has done indicates he would criticise Putin for anything.
Chiefly I meant financial support to maintain his “brand” and market/advertise himself in this age of mass media as a respectable musician, which he is - let’s face it - not anymore. His image as a “great maestro” is what got him the salaries abroad because he’s been all show and no substance for a while. It’s all in the past now anyway. But you have a point, I should have amended my statement with overall support (not just financial) Being in cahoots with Putin comes with its own compromises shall we say. :D Regarding the third reply, I agree with you, I just said that Gergiev would be a massive hypocrite if he suddenly changed his opinion now.
@@gertyup Yes, we know his opinion of Putin. He's been a Putin bootlicker consistently over the years and it's not hard to find many examples if you look. Whether his unwavering support of Putin was out of genuine belief or career opportunism is irrelevant at this point.
Have you see Vasily Petrenko's statement, David? Sometimes artists matter a little. I hope they give him a knighthood.
Yes, I have seen it.
Petrenko sums it it superbly. I can imagine his comments will be well received. I have a lot of time for him and the recordings he has made. My opinion is he is a far more engaging conductor than Gergiev.
Evgeny Kissin put out a very emphatic statement on Instagram a few days ago.
As always Dave is correct. VG for some time is nothing more than a money making machine for himself. Mr and Mrs Netrebko on the other hand love their money more than their art and will find a way to rehabilitate themselves to save their asses.
he will be replaced by other "gergievs". nothing changed, so what's with all the joy? Gergiev's career and adulation internationally( regardless his shortcomings which as you know were many) was only a symptom/result springing out of a larger issue. Knowing the cult-like effect his presence had in Munich among stuff, audience and musicians, they must have very reluctantly 'canned' him. oh well... up to new hypes, new cults, new 'visually'-based young stars
While I condemn Gergiev pro Putin support, maybe he will have more time to learn well his scores and become a better conductor. I,m sure he will little by little start getting international gigs in places like Venezuela, Mexico, China etc..
He's a big conductor, but u r right - many times he comes to the stage unprepared.
I started boycotting Gergiev and Netrebko years ago. Wouldn't attend Met HD if they were involved. The world caught up!
Hilarious and true, though not all opera singers are as vulgar and dumb as Netrebko.
They SACKED him!!
That's what I said.
@@DavesClassicalGuide i believe you said 'canned his ass' repeatedly and with glee. most deserved obsrevation
Sack Can All perfectly good waste control methods
Must agree!
Just the toothpick baton "was a warning sign" . . . . . I just never understood how Gergiev suddenly "erupted" having never seemed to lay a foundation for any form of greatness. Plus, I have a visceral dislike for people who "don't shave" . . . . .
Should I be worried?
@@DavesClassicalGuide I meant unsightly grunge/stubble, versus beard! You're good!
Yeah, anyone with the unshaved look has always looked suspicious to me. Don't ask me why. I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole - or a baton, or a toothpick. They might hit you.
Ah David, you haven't revealed whether Tinnitus Classics have canned Gergiev's ass too. I know you have a recording contract with him: come on, come clean!🤣
We didn't can his ass, we had it shrink-wrapped.
In an Aug 18, 1986 L.A Times article "Leontyne Price as Masterclasser", the diva is asked about her experiences as a black opera singer. She refuses to answer those questions because she thinks they're "boring". She would probably be cancelled today but her response was great.
i think it was ms price who performed 'the german requim' with solti and the cso, the one concert i felt was a letdown. years later, back at my alma mater, midwestern u, the univ choir and orchestra lead by robert shaw, who came once a year, performed the same work and i was captivated. such are the vagaries of the muse?
@@brucemiller5356 what's that got to do with ms price. Obviously for a choral work like brahms requiem shaw is a more superior conductor
@@corgansow7176 i mentioned ms price, b/c she was the soloist, and a fine one. as far as shaw being a superior conductor than solti, i think that is questionable
@@brucemiller5356 while Solti was a terrific opera conductor, especially Wagner, you can't deny Robert Shaw is on a league of his own when it comes to big choral works. He was choir master for Szell in Cleveland. That's just my opinion
Makes me admire Leontyne Price even more. It really is shockingly offensive what’s become the norm amongst left leaning “justice warriors.”
I am glad VG has had his ass canned, BUT, where do I now go for the Rimsky operas I had my eyes on?
Please someone explain to me what those horse sounds while saying Bruckner a nd Mahler means. It is hilarious, but I don´t have any idea why would anyone do that :D
Check out the film Young Frankenstein or look up "Frau Blucher" on TH-cam.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Lol, thank you a lot! I need to see the whole movie
Apart from the evidence of the recordings, my opinion of Gergiev as a musician was cemented by a video I saw of him leading a "master class". Some young guy was conducting Scriabin's Prometheus, and Gergiev's advice consisted chiefly of "Tuck your elbows in".
I had to interview him when he was conducting at the MET. Yech!
Hear hear! Gergiev's support of Putin deserved to be condemned. Rather than performing and recording the same works that everybody else is performing and recording, artists should use their prestige to promote neglected compositions of merit.
I'd love to sit in a darkened room smoking a cigar with Dave and hear more of Dave's bete noire stories.....
Forget the cigar, I'm asthmatic. Otherwise, you're on.
Dave you could introduce us to some Ukrainian composers.
I already have.
His active homophobia took him off my "listen to" list years ago. His support of Putin is not surprising.
I look at it differently. I start with the proposition that most artists are loathsome and then I can be pleasantly surprised when some of them turn out to be lovely individuals. But that has no bearing on who I will listen to, otherwise I'd listen to nothing and no one.
I’m not offering excuses, Gergiev and company deserve all this. Gergiev in particular I think his support is genuine. But I have wondered if any of these artists’ positions and campaigning in the past was extorted. Putin’s regime is the absolute dictionary definition of a gangster state, anyone who’s followed them closely knows this. And regarding David’s rhetorical question as to whether Putin cares what happens to Russia’s cultural and sporting ambassadors, I think the emphasis placed on things like hosting the World Cup and Olympics and sending these artists out to dazzle us tells us that they’re an important part of his desire to project Russian supremacy in these fields. (Since he’s literally a fascist, such things would be important to him. Fascists are different from other repressive dictators that way.)
A conductor of the stature of Svetlanov seemed not to matter much to the Russian officials (under Putin if not mistaken) when he was brutally fired.
Even during times of strained political relations, one tries to keep arts, sports and science out of it. Even if individuals may express support for the politicians in charge. But when an invasion happens, one can no longer turn a blind eye and let disagreement lie. However politics (not to vsay world peace) aside, Mr. Hurwitz has made the point that life goes on with or without acclaimed artists. Ane I trust that we shall continue to play Tchaikovsky, Rimsky and Shostakovich, because art is a greater thing that than the brutalities of dictators.
Dictators seem to be schizophrenic in their reactions to outside criticism, Just look at the Ping-pong guy. They criticize anything and everything about everyone else but if someone says boo to them they Holler like little children that others have NO RIGHT to criticize them. The old dish it out adage.
You have to be certifiably insane to run a fascist state. At least a sociopath. 😁
Putin from the french for hoary old man. We used to think he was a pain in the neck but now we all have a lower opinion of him. 😁 Can we discuss religion next??????🤣 Peace all
Love this video gergiev finally goes
David, I enjoy your videos and have learned about pieces (especially Shostakovich) and have been able to acquire a few of the cds you've recommended. Thank you! On the topic of Gergiev, I don't know much about his conducting skill or success but I find your putting him down as you have to be deplorable and your language to be in very poor taste. I've haven't seen your shadenfruede display before. I'm disappointed with you.
Well, you've learned that our tastes differ. I can live with that. Can you?
@@DavesClassicalGuide I can; I respect differences in views. I will continue to enjoy your reviews. You're forgiven.
@@peterkuntz6076 I'm so relieved. The world of classical music is far too full of self-righteous prudes and pedants.
Gergiev an old friend of Putin's. That's the point. And schadenfreude? I'm all for it in this case.
Great video, Dave and how appropriate. Today after all is "ASS" (ash) "WEDNESDAY" !!!!!
Google now describes Gergiev as “a Russian former conductor”.
Google always knows.
Wish more such amazing "former conductors" performing all around the globe!
Lucky Mariinski and StP.
Can you send me that link, cause I can't find any.
@@winniepooh6229
@@onnoalink6694 I think it was picked up from Wikipedia, and “former” was edited out two hours ago.
Valery Gergiev is so overhyped.
I just don’t know how any orchestral musician could ever follow his absurdly mannered and barely legible beat.
He only works with top-notch, world-class orchestras which could play a great performance of anything with any conductor...if they wanted to. And perhaps without a conductor. A fine orchestra doesn't need a kapellmeister giving them a beat, but in a lesser group it sure is important!
As Mahler once said, according to the account of one of the many musicians in the NY Phil who played under him, "Good musicians don't need a conductor; a conductor is only a necessary evil."
@@martinhaub2602 not quite - heard him conducting youth orchestras several times ( one of them was in USA, they played 10th symphony of Shostakovich ).
Let us remember even Switzerland who opened its doors for furtewangler when he was barred from conducting In Germany now condemned geregiev
not a big fan of furty, but i do love hearing that hitler said of him 'he is the nastiest man i have ever met.' spasiba
Will someone throw light on what PAAVO JÄRVI is doing, conducting concerts in Russia?
Are you sure it's not Putin? They do look alike :)
There's a statement about it on his website.
@@wassimbejjani6793 lmao 🤣
Paavo probably booked the gig 5 years ago. Probably E-Stoned. >You may all groan loudly. I did 😉
Well, if anyone proves your theme that artists don't matter it would be Gergiev. So many heaving, predictable performances. Total bore.
10000 viewers in 7 days!!! Wow!!😃👍
Gergiev also expressed support for Putin's antigay laws during an interview with Charlie Rose several years ago, saying it was to protect children from child predators. And yet he loves the music of Tchaikovsky, who was gay.
The few Gergiev recordings that I had, are in the trash can.
that is very ex post facto. granted he is a Schmuck today but that does not mean all his previous recordings are crap.
@@brucemiller5356 They're in the trash because of my principles. Nothing to do with the quality. You clearly missed the point of my comment.
i did NOT miss the point of your comment. i should have further said, you could have given them to a charity resale shop. it is not only the conductor you are trashing but each and every member of both symphony orchestras. a silly fit of pique.
Why are you so concerned as to what I do with MY own CDs? Have you nothing better to occupy yourself with, silly man?
@@brucemiller5356 You describe a matter of principle as a "silly fit of pique" That says everything about you.
What on earth is this title supposed to mean? In the video, you say that you didn't find the latter part of Gergiev’s career artistically valuable or relevant, and then you find it necessary to turn that into “No artists matter at all”? What? Why? Do you have any need for that kind of antagonising and awful clickbait?
It seems to me like complete cognitive dissonance: the way you normally talk about recordings you like and artists you like makes it crystal clear that you don't believe this yourself, as you shouldn't.
You miss the point entirely. Whether I like an artist or not has nothing to do with what I consider to be their relevance. I see nothing antagonizing about this. It's a simple fact. When everyone plays the same stuff over and over, often supremely well, the value of any single version diminished, and yet the industry insists on its necessity and the individual irreplaceability of artists who do nothing new or original at all. Gergiev is simply a case in point, but the issue is a general one. So rather than getting your back up and reacting in shock and horror, consider the premise.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I don't understand how that generalisation is supposed to work. We're talking about personalities and style and the meaning of music here, and there's nothing about those issues that would allow extending an observation from one individual artist to all artists.
@@simonalbrecht9435 OK. You don't understand it (and don't want to). That's fine with me.
@@DavesClassicalGuide People who don't understand the "Artists don't matter" concept don't understand music history. The stars of a hundred years ago are NON-EXISTENT to us today, however important they once seemed to be. Twenty years ago, I was stunned to hear of professional young violinists who, when asked if they had heard of Jascha Heifetz, had no idea who he was. Today, i am no longer surprised. It doesn't matter who you are -- David is right, artists really can and do disappear without notice.
Was he really that good? I remember his facial expressions more than anything I heard. Perhaps he will be able to conduct some small-town Russian orchestras. In the meantime, good riddance!
Oh yes, just fyi he is a head of "small town" Mariinsky. 🤣🤣🤣
I think his prokofiev cycle is very good though dave never mentioned it in his prokofiev symohonies video. I also enjoy very much the 2and prokofiev concerto with matsuev. I could be in the minority on these but I try not to dismiss something just because I might not like the conductors politics or whatever.
@@gertyup You are not at minority of course. At least among those who love classical music. I was lucky to attend 2 of his performances (the first one was Ravel with Mariinsky, the second one was concert with Denis Matsuev, again with Mariinsky orchestra). It was absolutely brilliant. I was under strong impression.
Watch his consert in Palmyra - devoted to victims of extremists and peace in the region. It was heartbreaking.
@@winniepooh6229 thanks for your commenys. I must say however that I dont disagree that he should be fired from overseas positions because of the horrific invasion and his past political activities in Russia.