Is Jesus A Man, Myth or Legend? (Discussion with Dr. Robert M. Price)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ค. 2023
- Robert M Price was formerly a Baptist minister who became open-minded to the idea that Jesus was a myth after reading books by George Wells and others. He concluded that the evidence for a historical Jesus was unconvincing and that the New Testament was likely a mythological version of what a historical Jesus might have been. He believes there could have been a historical Jesus, but that it is unlikely we will ever know for sure.
Robert M Price argues that the epistles were written earlier than the Gospels and provide no evidence of a recent historical Jesus, and that the secular sources such as Josephus, Tacitus, Mar ben Serapon are likely spurious Christian editions. He believes that the narrative structure of the Josephus passage is not consistent with the rest of his work, and that the context in which it appears in Eusebius is too convenient.
Robert M Price suggests that the evidence for a historical Jesus is sparse and ambiguous, and that the Gospels may have been influenced by Hellenistic culture and the hero's journey archetype. He also suggests that the Romans may have influenced Christianity to pacify the Jews, and that the Flavian dynasty symbol may have been inherited from the Seleucid Empire.
Robert M Price discussed the similarities between the Old Testament and New Testament stories, the objections to the historical Jesus and the Christ myth theory, and the idea of memetic creation in literature. He also discussed the Jewish Maccabean revolt and the idea of forgery in literature.
Chapters & Topics Timestamps
01:03 Robert M Price's Journey from Baptist Minister to Believing Jesus was a Myth
06:15 Robert M Price and Jeramiah Giehl discuss the potential of a historical Jesus and the evidence to support his existence.
The Historical Jesus
20:40 Evidence for the Historical Jesus
Discussion of the Role of Jesus in Early Christianity
27:48 Examining the Historical Evidence for a Historical Jesus
43:07 Reconciling Jewish Christianity and Hellenistic Pauline Christianity Accommodationism of the Pharisees and Sadducees in Post-Exilic Judaism
46:55 Examining the Role of Jesus in the Gospels
52:41 Miraculous Conceptions, Healing Miracles, and Apparent Resurrections in Religious Myths
55:24 Discussion of Ancient Religious Thought and its Influence on Christianity
The relation of the dying and rising gods in the ancient world
1:01:13 Influence of Platonism and Gnosticism on Jewish and Christian Theology
1:05:36 Exploring the Origins of Paulinism and Christianity
Full Transcript Available here: jesusthejewwithinjudaism.word...
Key Questions Timestamps
10:36 Was Jesus a revolutionary insurgent group leader?
12:00 What is the evidence to support Jesus' existence?
25:40 Was there a need for a historical Jesus at the root of Christianity?
1:08:32 What are the common evangelical objections and ways to overcome them when presenting ideas?
We discuss the following topics:
• How he went from Baptist pastor to a Christ-Mythicist.
• A little background on the historical Jesus and is there room for a historical Jesus within the Christ-Myth theory.
• What he makes of the James Tabor’s work on the Talpiot Tomb, the Lost Tomb of Jesus Family and also the James Ossuary and other attestation to Jesus’ existence.
• We also discuss James Tabor and Robert Eisenman's theory about the Essene's and Qumran connection to James and the early Jesus movement.
• The disconnect between Jesus Jewish origins and the Hellenistic Greek setting of the New Testament.
• Then we cover the main points of the Christ-Myth Theory;
1) The lack of evidence of Jesus existence, and what does he makes of Thallus, Josephus and Tacitus references?
2) How the Christ-Myth is paralleled in the dying and resurrecting "gods?
3) He states the Eusebius fabricated Testimonium Flavianum, what does he make of James Valliant “Creating Christ” and Joseph Atwill's “Caesars Messiah”?
4) What makes the plagiarism and forgeries in the New Testament plausibly argued to be borrowed? Does he see the gospels written in light of the Hero's Journey?
5) Is Jesus stereotyped as the mythic hero on the Heros Journey and the dying and rising gods of mythology.
• Paul and the Hellenistic influences on the New Testament, what role does Plato's Trinity of the Logo, Demiurge and World Spirit play into the Christ-Myth?
• And regarding Jesus later deification upon death, does it resemble the Apotheosis of Caesars upon their death? The way that Jesus became "god" was it a function of roman Apotheosis?
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Love to see Dr. Price - he is a national treasure! Cheers
Do you feel the same way about Trump?
I’ve seen many Dr. Price interviews and thought he was particularly lucid here lol 😆….. In fact will watch it more than a few times
Thank you, glad you liked. Remember to like and subscribe more interviews coming
There are very few men who are as far read and learned as Dr. Price.
and certainly none as lucid and articulate. True fearless scholar.
I agree!
Dr.Price is my favourite mythicist. His writings are well researched.
Thanks for having Dr Price... he's so entertaining 👍
I am glad you enjoyed it. Please stay tuned for more interviews.
@@PullingTheThreadPodcastdo u have any info on when the Epistles and Gospels first appear in the historical record??
@@peterrabbit1054 yes. We don't have our first full New Testament until mid-fourth century. We start to have mostly complete manuscripts late 3rd century. But they don't look anything like the later ones. Some major theology later added is missing in the earliest manuscripts.
@@PullingTheThreadPodcast I appreciate your time. Long life Catholic, however, with lots of questions, trying to make better sense of it all.
@@PullingTheThreadPodcast it's curious as to why, if they were written in the 1st century, why it took hundreds of years to show up in the historical record? 🤔
Enjoyed the review of Dr. Price's take on the Christ myth.
Thank you for the positive feedback back. Stayed tuned for more interviews like this are coming in the near future.
Dr.Robert Price is a brilliant scholar.
Dr. James Tabor, I think this is the author Dr. Price is trying to remember. Great interview.
Glad to see dr price again 😃
What a wealth of valid information!
Glad you enjoy subscribe to stay up to date with more interviews like this
Thanks for having Dr. Price on, he's one I always listen to when he comes up in my TH-cam scroll!
Always fascinating to hear Dr Price's take on the Jesus Christ story.
Visionary experience of Cefas, as Mohammed with Gabriel o Smith with Moroni...the same fairy tale creates religions all over the place.
Dr. Price is amazing. Listening to him speak is wonderful!
Yeah he's good. Sad that he feels need to flash his MAGA republicanism so frequently.
Great to see a new channel started!
Thank you. Like and subscribe. More content coming soon .
Brilliant
To make a definitive case if there ever was a real man who preached, who was called Jesus... it can go either way. We make surmises because based on the material, that's all we can do.
That he got beefed up to godlike or godly status, yes, that's the power of storymaking after the facts. But also consider this, there were a number of christian groups who revered Jesus ONLY as a mere mortal man. A prophet. Isn't that a clue that there actually was such a man? So there's the man, a not so significant prophet. AND there's the much bigger myth. The myth that kept the story, preached by this man, alive: God's promissed Redeemer, Liberator, Saviour. But what was what exactly? Impossible to tell! Cause the material doesn't give that clarity for EITHER camps.
Its plausible Jesus was a marginal Jewish prophet who failed and was cut off, later his message was co-opted by rome and they changed the message in order to influence a popular growing movement so that they could influence and control the growing movement and make it their own, which is what the Romans did
Jesus is a man, a myth and a legend.
If Jesus had written something it would have helped the credibility gain some traction.
There were a few claims of letters between a King and Jesus but theyre fake
Why not multiple choice?
What do you mean by multiple choice?
@@PullingTheThreadPodcast Probably means "all of the above" as in "a man who was mythicized and became a legend":)
Great interview, hope there's more in the pipeline!
@@notanemoprog he is a man who became a myth who became a legend
@@PullingTheThreadPodcast One can be man, myth, and legend all rolled into one, and be more than anyone millennia ago bargained for or could possibly have envisioned with the visions of their day
@@theomnisthour6400 yes, he is a man, who became a myth, who was turned into a legend.
DR BOB!!!!!!!!!!!
😹😹👍
Jesus is a Roman god Christianity is a pagan roman religion Baruch HaShem Adonai Elohanu erev shabbat