Fisker Ocean Batteries Explained - LFP vs NMC and Why I Want The Sport Model
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.ย. 2023
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There was so much good info here I’ll need to watch it a few times. I felt like I should get ready for the exam after this presentation 😅. Great job.
Thanks for watching, Cheers!
Ash, the 250-mile range sport will be lucky to get 180 miles of range in the real world. especially in the colder climates. Here when its -20* and you need to drive 75mph to work 50 miles away, expect to get 150 miles of range out of a single charge, this is not great. As a veteran EV technician and EV owner, people should be buying an EV with a minimum of 300 miles of range if they travel any distance for work or pleasure. Just my thoughts! BTW, My FOO will be here in early October. Just received an email from Fisker. Let's go!
Congrats on your upcoming Fisker Ocean One! I agree. Real world range and rated range are not equal, especially in cold weather. And it’s a major sacrifice with an LFP vehicle. I hope all goes well with your delivery, and enjoy your new vehicle, Cheers!
I bet I’ll get more than 250 out of mine 😉
Thank you for the clear explanation. Real food for thought on the long term life of the ultra that I have ordered but I will stick. Will probably only keep it for a few years and hope that new battery technology will come along to mainstream cars.
Its definitely possible!@@GaiaTheorist82
@@Aslash304is the LFP battery technology far worse in the winter?
Also can anyone confirm if by buying the inter package, does this include a heat pump for the sport?
you nailed it 100%.......
Thanks so much for watching, Cheers!
With fire :)
That was wonderful.
The best and the most comprehensive explanation of difference between the two batteries.
I appreciate your feedback! Thanks for watching, Cheers!
Brilliantly explained! Thank you.
Thanks for watching, Cheers!
Fantastic, very informative video. Thanks!
I appreciate your feedback. Thanks for watching, Cheers!
You do a great job on your videos! Keep up the good work and hope you get many more subscribers.
I appreciate your feedback. Thanks for watching, Cheers!
So Fisker is an Austrian assembled car with a Chinese CATL battery and Chinese parts. The Chinese are pretty creative on how they are getting cars in the US.
They won years ago, when we let them build all of our stuff. Cars are just a last straw. Thanks for your feedback, Cheers!
Great Job! 👍 you really made this explanation relatable to the novice.
I appreciate your feedback, Cheers!
Awesome video!
Thank you so much for watching, Cheers!
Great explanation, thx a lot!
Thanks for watching, Cheers!
I thought sport was my best move and you proved me right. Also the software will be better when I get my car. Thanks for all you do.
Thanks so much for watching. I appreciate it, Cheers!
Thank you very much for the detailed explanation of EV battery technology.
Thanks for watching, Cheers!
Good thing Fisker went with CATL. The batteries from CATL have a much better reliability than Samsung batteries Rivian is using. I really had to dig in. I love the CATL company quality.
They are a huge battery supplier and have lots of experience. I agree it was a good call. Thanks for your feedback, Cheers!
That's how I (really not scientifically) calculate the differences between the Sport and the Ultra, plus I don't want to pay that much for a vehicle. So it will be the Sport. I had only one All wheel drive in my life and it was fun but not necessary at all even in our snowy county. The cold could be more unpleasant but we have a garage so it vould sleep there if needed. Thanks for this explanation of the batteries. Cheers!
I appreciate you sharing your feedback, I’m excited for the Sport. Cheers!
thanks for the info
Thanks for watching, Cheers!
Adam very nice presentation. All of your point are exactly why I ordered the Sport (besides great exterior design). I have been following CATL and BYD for a couple of years. I owned stock in both for awhile as well. As I have mentioned before Henrik pulling the heat pump off the Sport made no sense thus my canceled order. Current vehicles I am considering are Volvo EX30 and Chevy Equinox EV. I anticipated I will be able to purchased a upper trim level ( much better equipped) of either for about (or less) than the $44,000 the Sport would have cost me. Volvo is currently doing dealer tour for the EX30 around the country. It will be in the Seattle area in mid Oct. so excited to see it. I noted lots of Calif locations happening in Nov/Dec as well. Please keep up your good work!
Thanks for continuing to tune in! The EX30 looks great, and should be one of the best EV deals. Keep me posted on your experience, Cheers!
Great Design, but only Center screen and from China. That's a no go. Greetings a Volvo S40 driver
Well done sir.
Thanks for watching, Cheers!
Haha, nice! I LITERALLY laughed out loud at least three times during this. My wife came in to see what all the commotion was about.
How can we make the Cliff Bar/Salad comparison go viral? Paging Sandy Munro…
Thanks for watching! I appreciate this very much. It was fun to make. Cheers!
Another great video with lot's of great info.
FYI,
Just noticed my Ultra build has been assigned a Vin# (70XX))
November 2020 $250. Deposit date.
Any others????
This is great news! Thanks for sharing, I’ll let you know if I find out more, Cheers!
Loved the donut interruption😅
Hrsprs for the win! Cheers!
Great video and explanations.... I'll be happy with power and faster charging, especially how much i drive and Houston driving.... How's the Mach-E treating you?
The faster charging and extra power are a huge benefit, and the right choice for most people. I have been driving a Model Y for the last 2 years, and it’s been wonderful. I would love to do a long term test in a Mach-E. They are super good looking, and a really strong competitor. Thanks for your feedback, Cheers!
@Aslash304 They are pretty sweet.... we finally got some in to sell... We have 3 in stock now. The GTs are so quick, it's almost scary.
@@KQMcKinnon - Interesting observation on speed and quickness. I live in SoCal. i test drove a Fisker Ocean Extreme in LA. My experience with driving in LA is that there is next to never (except maybe in the dead of night) where using Hyper mode is even possible. Just too many cars on the freeway and certainly not enough open space on local roads.
It looks fun, though. But it is kind of like driving a convertible here, it is great if the temps stayed in the 70's but come to red light in the heat of the summer and you boil to death.
Some good advice and points raised - I think the sport is good value, but still waiting for HF promised latest tech, although he is getting there with the sustainability. Are we also saying in the last year he might barely manufacture 5,000 cars?
Great Question: We will see in November as to the number produced. I’m hoping the early vehicles help Fisker figure out the ramp. It should be interesting. Thanks for sharing your insights, Cheers!
Very good explanation. Fisker could put, starting this fall, the new LMFP batteries from CATL are way more efficient, all most on par with there NMC according to the company and at the same price. I’m wanting for that kind of batteries, simply because of the life time I will be able to keep my car for long or it will have a better value to trade it because a healthier battery after 5 or 6 years.
The upcoming LFP cells are really good. Not a lot of trade offs at all. We will have to wait and see what Fisker does. I would guess these upcoming LFP batteries will be expensive at first. Thanks for your feedback, Cheers!
@@Aslash304 When I mentioned at the same price, CATL is saying at the same price of there LFP ones.
@@jeanpaulmartin9696 I agree 100%. they could be more expensive initially to support R&D. And Fisker’s partnership with CATL started in 2020, before the new cells were released. This is the main reason I don’t expect the Ocean to feature them, but the PEAR could definitely be a candidate.
Hi Ash, I originally reserved the ULTRA due to the AWD for Canadian winter months, however, the price change makes the ULTRA over my budget. I'm thinking of going for the SPORTS instead that will save me about 15K CAD but I'm a little worried about LFP battery which is not not ideal for the cold weather .
Any advice will be appreciated.
Thanks
Keep it charged. That’s always the rule with LFP. Yes, it won’t perform as well in cold weather, but neither will NMC. Preconditioning is crucial. Leave it plugged in, warm up the cabin (which also warms up the battery), and plan your departure times around the preconditioning. We don’t know how that all works yet, as the app isn’t fully functional, but if the app allows the cabin to be warmed up, the sport should be fine. Hope this helps. Thanks for your comment, Cheers!
Cold weather… is it only below freezing that it becomes an issue charging and holding that charge?
All EV batteries are affected by changes in ambient temperature. It depends on how long it is sitting, whether or not you’re trying to slow or fast charge, how much hard acceleration the vehicle is doing, etc. 20-40° C ( 70 - 100° F ) is where batteries want to be, so technically, anything more or less than that will change performance when you first start driving it, until the thermal management and usage of the cells drives the batteries into that range. Therefore, the colder it is, the longer it takes to get the batteries to that optimal temperature range. Hope this helps. Thanks for your comment, Cheers!
What’s your “opinion only” regarding when the Sport might arrive in the US for those that put $1000 deposit down?
Great Question: don’t hold me to it, but I would say May-June 2024. Fingers crossed. Thanks for your comment, Cheers!
What is the recommended charging percent for Level 2 charging for ocean one and for dc fast charging.
Great Question: The daily recommendation is 80% for all types of charging. At high percentages (90%+), DC charging slows to near level 2 charging speeds anyway. If you’re traveling, you want to use the vehicle for the needs of your trip. Charge to 100% just before you leave home so your first leg has the longest range, or charge to 90-95% overnight at a hotel, or charge to 100% at an Electrify America because you’re upcoming destination doesn’t have reliable charging, etc. 80% is just a recommendation. If you are going to store the vehicle for a long time, 50-60% is better. At the end of the day, it’s your car, and you paid for all 360 miles of range. I’m happy to answer any more questions if you’d like. Thanks for your comment, Cheers!
@@Aslash304
Thank you for your quick reply.
I was not thrilled with the processes that I had to go through to pay for the car. There seemed to be a total disconnect between the app, the staff and delivery process.
The key fob is not very user friendly and it took me several attempts to pair my phone and my wife’s phone. Later found out from virtual online session that currently ocean1 can be paired with one phone only.
Have to get use to the vegan interior and linings.
I reviewed your charging recommendation in your video post between NMC battery and LFP battery. 👍
The Sport version should come with a heat pump, right? so in cold weather condition would what not help on the "cold weather performance"?. So then the battery packages should be preconditioned, and you need to charge at fast charger network -and assuming, the Fisker firmware is updated in your car (those updates are rolled out now on some vehicles, so hopefully on all cars soon), the NMC package should benefit too from the heat pump?, and stay nice warm cozy on those days with cold weather condition and help on range/performance?. Well, I am looking forward to hearing the form "real life experience" of Sport versions, before I lay too much in the NMC range, it might surprise positive!
The Ocean Sport does not include a heat pump, based on current published specifications. Thanks for your insights on the upcoming updates, Cheers!
-Thank you!, for the reply, I think more will be on the specifications "sheet" and packages option then the "Sport configurator" is updated and republished again. Henrik, have said that all of the hardware is standardized on all models to keep price down, like backseat heaters, does that include heatpump too?, we have to wait and see. I do think that the package options is to be updated, and little more be standardized, since the Sport version is likly be sold in large quantity, the "bread and Butter" so to speak, so it's more of what the completion can muster in 2024 what is to terminated the packages and standards in the Sport. This is why the configurator on Fisker site is temp. not running, Fisker is thinking about it 🙂 @@Aslash304
@@thomaskroyer3468 the published July press kit assets.ctfassets.net/cghen8gr8e1n/2yYcTNA4WRJh0W4O9kfiqO/2457c150477e595d63a14d0e075634b5/FIsker_Press_Kit_July_2023_US.pdf does not show a heat pump.
I wish the sport trim had solar panel roof because the batter would be charged at 100% almost all the time
It doesn’t work that way bud.. Depending on how often your drive it can differ. It takes a lot longer to charge a battery solar than it does to plug it in and charge. For the most part I think so.
The solar panel is a cool feature. However, a regular commuter ( 15,000 miles per year ) would only get 10% of that in free miles from the solar panel, and that’s in optimum conditions. So, while it is cool, it only provides about $60 a year in free miles, under absolutely optimal conditions. Thanks for your comment, Cheers!
Does this change with the new estimated figure or 231?
Happy to look into it, what change were you referring to? Thanks for your question, Cheers!
The Fisker ocean sports estimated mileage has been reduced from 275, then to 250 and now recently reduced to 231 miles. Do you know when the EPA test will be completed for the sports version?
@@ryanmarder2446 I do not, but I knew 275 and 250 were optimistic, considering that’s more than a Model 3 gets with essentially the same battery. 231 looks more like the real world range.
@@Aslash304 I thought the model y rwd LfP model has an estimated 60kwh battery which is a lot smaller than 75kwh of the sport
Also do you know if the sport gets a heat pump if you get the winter package?
You said you are a Fisker One owner? I thought you wanted a Sport? If you have a One where are the videos and reviews?
I’m so sorry for any confusion. I was trying to provide a hypothetical situation for Fisker Ocean One owners. I am still getting a sport. Thanks so much for your comment, and I’m extremely sorry to disappoint. Cheers!
The way insurance works in USA it better for the car to burn down than not from a main battery pack failure. If the battery just failed with no fire then only a warranty would cover it.
Congrats you car didnt burn but you better hope you are under warranty or you will have to cover the cost.
Thanks for your comment
I'd wait at least 10 years before drawing any conclusions about how flammable EVs are compared to ICE: the average ICE is 12 years old while the average EV is only three years old.
Good point. The only facts available are the current ones. I appreciate your comment, Cheers!
- All Lithium ion batteries, including LFP and NCM/A, degrade faster under high SOC/high C-rates
- All LIBs can be charge to 100%, but it accelerates battery degradation.
- According to Tessie (via CleanWatt) Tesla's LFP EVs, for instance, loses 10% range/SOH twice as fast as non-LFP under Tesla's full charging recommendation:
Tesla LFP Battery 10% RANGE LOSS PROBLEM? | Model 3 RWD th-cam.com/video/suw20wPrbL0/w-d-xo.html
"The brand new LFP batteries will degrade substantially quicker. There's not long-term retention data for LFP batteries on the market yet, but the trend tends to be substantially faster degradation. Trends show them stabilizing around that 10% degradation mark in about half the time as non-LFP batteries - around 50,000 miles instead of 100,000 miles."
- CATL's LFP puncture test in lab means jack in real life. Most (95+% last of 2022) LFP EVs are in China and LFP EV fires aren't usually reported by international media. In one recent EV fire in Cenxi, China, a local judge was trapped and burned alive in a BYD Han with Blade LFP (April 05, 2023). On Dec 29, 2022, a new concept LFP EV from IAT went up in flame at the Guangzhou Autoshow.
- the cost of raw materials for LFP is slightly higher than NCM8/9 per Wh/kg at the current market rate. LFP is generally substantially cheaper than older NCM tech, such as NCM5/6, but, higher than de facto industry standard, NCM8/9: NCM5 > NCM6 > NCM7 > LFP > NCM8 > NCM9
- NCM8/9 will get cheaper as new 300+GWh battery production capacity comes online around 2025-2026 in the US.
Thanks for all the data. Cheers!