Does metal have a problem with RACISM? (Doc Coyle of Bad Wolves)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ค. 2024
- Doc Coyle of Bad Wolves joins to talk about racism in metal
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Personally I've never experienced racism in metal at all. The only time I've experienced racism was with my own people when I was younger when I told them i liked metal because "black people shouldn't listen to metal". It used to make me hate my own race and I gravitated towards the metal heads, goths and skaters who loved and embraced me despite being a young black teen back in the early 2000s who was into that lifestyle. When I discovered bands like God Forbid, Killswitch Engage, Sevendust back then, i was so elated because there were other black people who were just like me and I didnt feel alone anymore.
I grew up in the straight up hood, slums and that never stopped me from liking punk, grunge, metal etc? I didn't feel it was racist when they said it wasn't normal because... It wasn't normal for them to listen to that kind of music?
I listened to hip hop too because that was what was around me. This post says more about you than the black people around you.
You're not a unicorn, you just felt some type of way and ostracized yourself and now you still hold a chip on your shoulder against black people who were probably just kids saying dumb kid shit. Weird.
@@ewww21 I'm just sharing what my experience was back then. I don't have hatred anymore and I was young and dumb to harbor any type of hatred like that back then. Hence the words: teenager and "I USED to", meaning I DON'T hate anymore. I'm 37 now and no longer hold those views.
Saying black people shouldn't listen to metal is like saying white people shouldn't listen country. Jimi Hendrix is the grandaddy of heavy music and every lead guitarist in the early days of metal tried to sound like him.
@@antona.8659yeah I’ve listened to metal for decades and been to plenty of shows - I remember running into a few skinheads back in the day but even they weren’t overtly racist .. I’ve read plenty of metal lyrics too and I just don’t see it.. I think Axl Rose used the N word in one of his songs so does that count?
I’m gonna say no, but there’s a cottage industry of online writers who need to generate ad revenue for their gig employers so we’ll undoubtedly see a torrent of articles about “white supremacy” in metal based off of a few anecdotes. Not to mention the euphemism treadmill effect, how fine tuned we are to it has increased.
Bingo. If there's not a widespread problem, we can just fabricate one.
What are you talking about? There's entire genres based on racism that have a lot of bands in them. Not to mention actual documented cases of people being racist.
@@orangemonkey500P2 You answered and refuted your own question.
@@MelGibsonFan lol no i didnt. explane how
@@orangemonkey500P2entire metal genres based on racism? Which ones? I’ve been into metal for decades and been to plenty of shows and I’ve encountered actual racism like maybe 2 times.. I have black friends that are pretty open about this sort of thing and I can’t remember them
Ever running into racism in the metal scene. I just feel that many like to virtue signal these days and the definition of racism has opened so wide that pretty much anything counts as racism
Some of the biggest metal artists are black. Metal doesn't have a racism problem, it's just that there will always be racists everywhere.
💯
I've been a Metalhead for 15 years. I'm 28. I'm Black, British and Hawaiian.. I have a Battle Vest with band patches and pins, I made it back in 2018.. and another one in 2019.. I've had many personal experiences and some great experiences just meeting other Metalheads in public, and actually to tell you the trvth, most of the other Metalheads I've met in my life were African-American, and of course White-Americans. Hmmm.. to be totally honest I've only dealt with racism outside of the subculture. I know that "word" exists anywhere in all states and countries, but yeuh.. I also never went to any concerts in my life, I'm an introvert so moshpits, and large crowds would make me feel uncomfortable. I hope to see Archspire live in Boston one day..
I'm like really attractive people have mentioned so they wondered why I'm into Metal, and they think it's a bunch of angry White men with long hair, and beards even though that is most partially a stereotype..😅
Hmm... I wish I could mention more I'm more of a reserved Metalhead so I don't go out to venues and concerts.. I've been to a few local punk shows one was a few doors down from my house back in 2014.. some punk guy paid for me. It was $36, he bought me a Monster energy drink at the store, and he paid his, his gf, and my $36 fee to enjoy the bands playing. I had a fun time.. but I prefer Metal more. I want to stay in a genre of music that I love not surrounded by racist trolls who... are just trolls under a bridge..
Sorry for the long comment, I don't usually comment a lot on here, but since I'm Black I think I'd share my personal thoughts and experiences I guess.. if I did 😅
Where do you live where there's so many black people metal fans?? That actually gives me hope. I live in Arkansas and even though. Things have gotten better over time it's still an issue and not many black people here are into metal. Not saying it's because of racism is just something I've noticed. I want more people in general to get into metal and hopefully we can keep the community tight if the community grows because that's one of the greatest things to me is how close metalheads are even if we don't know each other
@@stevinharper3551 Yeuh, I'm actually from Boston, MA.
Who cares what some colored person's experience is?
It exists but let’s be real it’s on life support. I go to lots of metal concerts and see all kinds of people and everyone gets along and has a great time. The problem is we stereotype everything like saying metal is white and rap is black.
Rap is a black thing. Try telling a black person it isnt. You would be the racist. Metal is a white person thing. Whites can do black people things and blacks can do white people things. Dont pretend the lines arent there, it only further divides.
@@acidtester7470. Great pint and that is why racism is hard to talk about.. a white guy saying that heavy metal is a “white person thing” would be seen as racist but if a black guy said that rap is a “black person thing” isn’t.. both are true statements but only 1 is seen as racist .. that only hurts this discussion
@@brianmeen2158 exactly, but I don't believe racism is an objective thing, there is only conflict of interests between races. There is an objective difference between black and white. Of course a black man is going to act in the interests of his own group and of course the reverse is also true. As it should be. The idea of racism only divides us. We could stop pointing the finger at each other and blaming each other for a fantasy world where there is no difference between us and them not becoming actualized, or we can instead recognize the facts that are clear, and on the basis of the reality (our innate differences) work towards a real, mutual respect. The problem, I think, is that people fear what that could mean, most people don't hate people based on their race, even the ones who openly say they do really only hate the conflict. Hard feelings over how the conflict is going for their own group. It's actually really understandable why. I'm not going to submit to black power any more than I expect them to submit to white power. Neither makes any sense. There isn't any easy way forward, but there is an objective way forward that could work in favour for all parties. It certainly isn't multiculturalism, at least in the way that word is understood. I don't know exactly what needs to be done, and won't until these hard conversations actually are had and the insight gleaned from talking about it honestly. Hostility is almost certain at the beginning of such a social conversation, but if it can be felt and gone through with the mindset of eliminating the conflict rather than adding to it, we can begin to see a solution to it. It's not going to happen if we are too scared of talking about it lest we be considered a racist. Non-whites are not to blame for whites being scared to talk honestly about these things, the responsibility lies with everyone as individuals to speak honestly despite their fear of how they may be perceived.
@@brianmeen2158 I replied. Comment won't show up for me as if it got taken down. Good thing I copied it before sending. I'll try again.
@@brianmeen2158 @brianmeen2158 exactly, but I don't believe racism is an objective thing, there is only conflict of interests between races. There is an objective difference between black and white. Of course a black man is going to act in the interests of his own group and of course the reverse is also true. As it should be. The idea of racism only divides us. We could stop pointing the finger at each other and blaming each other for a fantasy world where there is no difference between us and them not becoming actualized, or we can instead recognize the facts that are clear, and on the basis of the reality (our innate differences) work towards a real, mutual respect. The problem, I think, is that people fear what that could mean, most people don't hate people based on their race, even the ones who openly say they do really only hate the conflict. Hard feelings over how the conflict is going for their own group. It's actually really understandable why. I'm not going to submit to black power any more than I expect them to submit to white power. Neither makes any sense. There isn't any easy way forward, but there is an objective way forward that could work in favour for all parties. It certainly isn't multiculturalism, at least in the way that word is understood. I don't know exactly what needs to be done, and won't until these hard conversations actually are had and the insight gleaned from talking about it honestly. Hostility is almost certain at the beginning of such a social conversation, but if it can be felt and gone through with the mindset of eliminating the conflict rather than adding to it, we can begin to see a solution to it. It's not going to happen if we are too scared of talking about it lest we be considered a racist. Non-whites are not to blame for whites being scared to talk honestly about these things, the responsibility lies with everyone as individuals to speak honestly despite their fear of how they may be perceived.
I'm latino and been to many shows in CA. I never been harassed. Maybe because CA is a mixed state compared to other regions.
I mean you go to any metal or hardcore show in LA, the crowd is probably at least 80% Latino lol.
That's because this video title is bull sh!t
to many people now days think everything is racist
Socal Mexican here, never had issues with whites, but blacks always started shit with me so I grew to hate them. Most of the dudes I knew who were also into metal were Hispanic too.
@@Eirik_Bloodaxe tru dat I’m at 80% of metal shows in LA and I’m Mexican 😂
Agree with everything he just said. I also think it’s a bit strange to judge modern culture based on TH-cam comments. You never really know if you’re reading a comment from an edgy 11 year old kid or a grown man
this comment doesn’t address why grown men leave comments online that could be confused with the writings of an edgy 11 year old. why are so many grown men too edgy and immature to formulate a comment that serves their age?
@@blvckdxvth 😂 this is true but a whole other topic
@@redfurydubstep na it’s dead-on topic. it’s just not the part of the topic you’re trying to address. youtube comments are a product of people having to hold zero accountability for the things that they say due to the anonymity provided here, so it’s honestly a more transparent look into someone’s internal workings than a face-to-face. you can just say whatever tf you want because no one is gonna punch you in the nose if what you say rubs them wrong. both edgy teens and emotionally immature adults use anonymity to freely express what they know will come with consequences in the real world, around real people. one could go so far as to say that people are so insufferable nowadays because they’re so used to being as obnoxious as they can online without significant repercussions for so long that the lines between social media and social settings got blurred and they’re stuck in their reddit characters. irl trolls only exist because they got good at trolling online, and with no one ever having their nose broken in a red-hot reddit comment section, they continue to not fear physical retaliation offline.
tldr it’s related because men allow themselves to act like children when no one can see their face and they know they won’t be slid across the floor for it. you proved that their behavior is immature with your original comment, and i further explained exactly your point.
@@blvckdxvth or a bot/troll farm in St Petersburg, Tehran, or Beijing. Being bored online is best without faces. Kinda like how phone sex used to be.
they exist...it's undeniable...but some people don't know...that's because they build little communities with other racist people...they don't show up in droves to see Kings Of Leon like normies do...they make underground music and curate counter-culture that matches their social views...some people will say there isn't a lot of them but there are enough of them to build sizeable community and create culture...
And you know what that is a damn good thing. The most successful cultures have been built by racist white men.
Has anyone else seen these “thousands” of racist comments on his videos? Because I can tell you right now that I haven’t.
Go watch my video about racism in metal and I show tons of them
@@prmbapodcast you show about 5
Yep, lost me on this bs. Unsubscribed. Loved most of the content but I can't stand fake ass posers.
The more I watch Finn. The more I want block his page because of how pretentious he is. Get off the internet. Live your life. Doc is pretty level headed. Finn is always talking crap.
@Nitais Servant dudes just one of those white hardcore kid apologists trying to make sure everyone knows how empathetic he is for things he had nothing to do with. “OMG let’s talk about racism! “ cool….. him and every other podcast or TH-camr that exists over the last 4 years. I guess people forgot anything else ever happened in the music scene besides just a very small minority being dick bags that never stop yelling about something most have never experienced.
So crazy how racist metal could be at times.. I honestly don’t give a fuck. I’m Mexican… But then there’s biracial musicians like the late Alex Hellid of Entombed, Terrence Hobbs and Mike Smith of Suffocation and Pete Sanduval of Morbid Angel. All of which have changed the sound of brutal music..
"When the consensus is really reasonable, the only way you can be interesting is to be unreasonable." DAMN.
To sort-of counter the "coming from Europe" part, he's not wrong. HOWEVER... Metal, Rock and numerous other styles exist now because of music like the Blues which was NOT "white" music.
I don't understand how art forms can be so socially divisive. It hurts me that everybody is so judgmental, bigoted and narrow-minded in EVERYTHING. Bigotry of all sorts extends to everything because people naturally have bias due to their experiences and their environments (cultures, etc) and don't know how to reflect on themselves or reflect on others. We are in this never-ending loop of "it's bad because I don't understand" subconscious thought-process because unfortunately, ignorance IS bliss.
Sigh...
Of course it's in metal. Of course it's in punk and hardcore. Although it tends to be it's own segregated scene. There's a lot of people in all these subcultures. Some of them are going to be bad apples. It doesn't matter if it's punk, metal, or hardcore. These scenes are not islands of enlightenment in the sea of humanity.
Couldn't agree more!
Doc seems like a cool dude and I agree with what he’s saying
This guy was very cool and chilled out
Coming from White Plains New York born in 1967. We were Multicultural, all-in-one one- in- all . We all bled Red. Black and white Red all over !!!
Doc is saying alot facts here. I grew up in the 90s too. One thing that I would add when talking about American metal especially thrash is that there was mad Latino dudes.
I think that there's this idea "apolitical-ness" in metal. Which is a position that only certain folks can even have. You get alot of "keep politics out of it" and "shut up and just play music". I'm a Black lesbian into this music. My existence is in and of itself politicized. Whether I want it to be or not. Whether the music I'm listening to is explicitly political or not.
I think this way of questioning actually like just misses the nail. Because, no matter how antisocial and counterculture a scene/ music is, it is of and apart of that culture.
Kindly leave.
"Because, no matter how antisocial and counterculture a scene/ music is, it is of and apart of that culture." yeah, I think you nailed it with this.
As long as it isn't left leaning they'll be happy to have their conservative or xenophobic topics in their music. It's just disingenuous. Which is why I listen to Metal but I don't really associate myself with the scene anymore. It's probably why Gen Z ain't really fucking with the scene as much as we did in the early 2000s.
I don't really see that. My uncle who is like 70, who never listened to metal, said to me "doesn't metal have a lot of racists in it?" when I brought up that I played extreme metal genres.
This seems like a stereotype that the mainstream media has pushed. Metal and video games and stuff has always been the easy target for both the right and the left. it's super tiring. So sad to see so many artists fall into that bs. Who tf CARES??? Activism post 2014 has been coopted by elites. They saw us marching against the 1% and said , "distract them with identity politics".
It's not a metal issue. It's a people issue.
Its a non issue.
I've been going to shows for nearly 20 years, in UK and Europe, and I've honestly never seen any racism. If anything I found it cringe how overtly accommodating the metal fans were to a poc attending a show haha. I not saying it doesn't exist but I just haven't seen it ever, which I think is fantastic.
That's the thing. There is alot of things that are, that people don't even realize. Not saying those people are bad or anything. Just, ignorance. And what's absurd is you find it cringe that people are accepting. Yes, some people can go overboard. That happens on every side of any issue. But, being respectful and not a bigot always wins out in my book.
@@Magdalena8008s I think you’re being too critical of what he’s saying, he just means it’s cringe to see someone sort of “try hard” because it’s like watching them scream “I’m not a racist!” when just being themselves is all they had to do. Sort of comes off as insecure or insincere in a way. It’s like when you go to meet your partner’s parents and suddenly you’re acting like a different person, whereas all you needed to do was be yourself. Now your partner is embarrassed and wondering what your deal is. Yunno? Lol weird example but I’ve done exactly that so I’m speaking from experience. I might not have worded that correctly but hopefully you catch my drift and give D H a break
@@Magdalena8008s the key word was OVERTLY.
@redfurydubstep nailed it bro.
that's because they build little communities with other racist people...they don't show up in droves to see Kings Of Leon like normies do...they make underground music and curate counter-culture that matches their social views
I got to talk to Doc and Dallas in Little Rock '07. I remember Dallas saying that he was a bit apprehensive coming to the south... I wanted to tell him not to worry, that everyone is super cool - but I knew that probably wasn't true. So I was just like "yeah, man, there are assholes everywhere"
This dude honestly made Finn look kinda dumb in this one. His perspective was a lot more nuanced and educated. While Finn was just over there like "I see lots of racist comments on my videos so metal is full of racists."
You ppl just beat the hell out of that dead horse. Now most ppl hear "racism" and just roll their eyes when it used to be a serious accusation. Great job
Never should of been a serious accusation. You are a sniveling little snot like the rest of them.
@superfascista4308 Until most people become violently opposed to certain sections of the population, not good enough.
It's not really concentrated to one genre. There is EDM, Punk, even pop type music made for that stuff. And man I gotta question when you say "thousands of comments". I don't think you've ever actually counted the number of comments, and even if you did, thousands in very small compared to millions. The internet really does put minority groups under a microscope. Don't let that ruin you're perception of a genre of music.
R.A.C really was a peak genre.
Worldwide 🌐 Metal!! I love bands like Bloodywood, The Hu Band, Living Color, Sepultura, Sevendust, and I think that everyone should be encouraged for their enthusiasm towards this art form!! It's devastating knowing how fearful certain people can be about cultural differences.
I prefer Wolfkreig.
There’s some level of racism in almost everything. Genres, companies, countries etc. I don’t believe there is any MORE racism in metal then any other category in the world in fact there’s probably less
So does that make rap and hip hop racist? Cause it's pretty mainstream opinion in rap that it's only for blacks. And it's repeated by big artists on mainstream channels.
We can't talk about that man, cmon now. Only whitey bad.
Rap isn't only for Black people. It's mostly made by us but artists of different races have been involved in it. Also rap is so broad because you have $uicideBoy$, nerdy anime rap, lofi instrumentals, weird alt rap artists, and the mainstream music.
Wild to me that these comments are getting defensive and offended, either being like “it happens everywhere” or “it’s not that bad” and not just being like “oh yeah it definitely happens and it’s a problem”
Doc made some great points here; basically, the only reason why I am not open towards people who talk about racism in metal (aside from Finn who seems quite genuine) is the fact that it's always the same politically motivated activist type.
Yet, you certainly don't want the racist types either. If you've ever encountered a racist metal dude, you quickly realize that such a guy brings some attitudes which are not only dumb but outright poisonous and destructive for the entire community independent of race; you really don't want to associate with them bitter c***s.
It’s a hard conversation to have when you’re constantly bombarded by dumb shit like “the majority of metal fans are white, and that’s a problem”.
The problem is there's two definitions of racism. The original definition = prejudice against racial groups. The woke definition = literally anything a white person says, does or thinks.
@@Eirik_Bloodaxe fuck them. I'm Hispanic and I don't feel that way at all, to the contrary, I'm grateful. Problem in metal isn't racism or "too many white people", it's the soyboy takeover.
@@Eirik_Bloodaxe Bingo.
@@Eirik_Bloodaxeoh Jesus yeah activist types that make comments like that just blow my mind. They are being racist in an attempt to battle racism 😳
Because people get mad when you bring up racism in metal then that proves there is racism in metal. That is dumb.
I think in regards to punk there’s definitely a weird underground neo Nazi side to it. I grew up in the New England scene, and thought that shit had been completely stamped out. So I was really shocked when my friend told me that when he’d go to shows in Santee, CA that it was a regular occurrence to have people get their ass kicked for having swastika tattoos and shit. I also always remembered thinking it was really weird when you’d watch a video of a European hardcore band, and they all had like “we’re antifa, stop fascists, smash racism” type shirts, cos I viewed it as something anachronistic to what I understood in the 2010s New England scene.
Antifa is no better than Nazi also how is wanting more government being a anarchist ?
@@SpikeVicious-gq8sj wrong. Nazi is way better than antifa. Lol
There is racism in metal but it's not the way most say it is. I do the vocals for a slam band, drummer is Hispanic, guitarist is black. In 2015-2016 we were all afraid to say tell each other who we were voting for. We all wanted Trump. We all realized it was the Left telling us not to talk to each other, be afraid of each other. My band mates get super annoyed when some white suburban music nerd preaches to them about "right-wing racism." Get out of the racist Leftist echo chamber.
Go Doc! I loved seeing God Forbid back in the day, black dudes ripp the same as any other people. Were all people. METALHEADS UNITE! 🤘🤘
God Forbid was awesome, he makes a lot of good points with metal starting from a European type culture.
I’ve never been into metal, but I totally respect the culture and community
I played in a ton of bands in the 90s & 2000’s. I’ve met many talented Black metal musicians. But most of the bands refused to let Black musicians audition. Only whites, Latinos and Asians. Managers and booking agents told us we wouldn’t get a following with a Black person in the band.
Doc's playing was a huge influence on my mine back in the day. I dont give a shit about the colour of someone's skin, if they shred, they shred.
What an incredibly chill and insightful dude.
I’m a Mexican racist, I hate burrito. Naaa I love it ❤
I worked with a Latino who told me he voted for Trump so his family who didn't speak English would get deported. He eventually got fired for doing Nazi salutes in front of customers.
Racism might not be very obvious here but there's near to none black musicians in the genre. I think that we are all racist, it's just a matter of either if you aknowledge it and try to make changes or just deny it
Why make changes? it works. As a wise man once said " Im only as racist as the average black man is"
We all know why you change how you act and what time you go out when you live in the hood. It's because if you're not racist someone will make you racist.
There have always been neonazis in metal. It's aggressive, it's loud and it's mostly white people so they'll naturally flock to it. Way before Obama was elected, but Doc kind of nails it there.
After Obama and right before Trump, something clicked for these people. See Machine Head's Catharsis release for instance. You can like or dislike the music, I really thought it was a poor album in comparison to previous works, but people commenting on the Bastards video were doing it out of political reasons. Same goes for Lamb of God's self-titled and the comments on New Colossal Hate. The first hundreds of comments were a bunch of Trumpists who were into Lamb of God for some reason trying to look for a different meaning to the actual meaning of the song cuz immigrants mmmmmbad.
The polarization of American politics is outright insane, and unfortunately, what happens in politics affects the populace directly. A lot of these people didn't realize, I don't really know how, that a lot of the metal bands they liked were left-leaning, not the other way. This polarization and this hate has made a lot of bands speak out, and many of these fans have felt directly attacked, because they lack the critical thought process to actually interpret what these bands want to say and compare it to their beliefs and opinions. So they'll just bash 'em and call them woke instead, which is the new thing Fox and Ron De Satantis are peddling.
This.💯
Who are the neo Nazis in modern metal? Don’t be vague - give me specific names of American metal bands that are neo nazi
Doc is a real one …
Now ask the same question about rap
I was going say the same thing
doesn't fit their agenda
Real stuff man. I really like your show and you didn’t just hit the nail on the head u put the nail through the board Great job
I love how he claims to be against the woke mob whilst stereotyping metalheads as being racist.
Every metal band should have a picture of chuck berry in there practice room
No.
There's definitely racists in hardcore too but the hardcore scene is MUCH better about policing it than the metal scene is. I also think a lot of people's in metal make it so much a part of their identity that they can feel personally attacked if you bring it up, even if they themselves aren't racist. I've been guilty of it myself (the being attacked part, thankfully not the being racist part). So I think the metal scene in general needs to change its attitude about how it deals with when people bring up that yeah, there's still a lot of racists that the metal scene either just ignores or chooses to glorify it.
Honestly, I don't think it matters. So what if racists exist in the metal scene?
@@joshuasmith7894 wtf are you saying ?
@@joshuasmith7894 they shouldn't exist anywhere
@@arbiterargiros I'm just saying that the entire metal scene has been notorious for it's sheer amount of negativity toward religious groups and human existence in general. I just don't see why, of all these other more noticeable negative qualities prevalent in metal, we're going to zoom in on this one particular issue.
@@joshuasmith7894 notorious is referring to how it is perceived and not a lot like the actually lived experience of most shows you go too whatever you may believe in, i think the examples you gave are things that are rightfully hated by some , on the other hand i think this 'one particular issue' which is racism besides making you sound like a neonazi is far more important then worrying about the church ?!?!? might as well not talk about anything , really don't know where your coming from
A lot of what you read/see online, is either coming from children, or bots.
When it comes down to it it's up to us fans to police racism to wear racists don't feel they have a place in our community
Having participated in the metal scene beginning 30 years ago going to shows and even playing some shows, I definitely have seen the presence of openly white supremacist ideology throughout the decades. I'm Latino, but the vast majority of Caucasian metalheads are welcoming and I greatly appreciate them. Unfortunately, bigots do seem to be more comfortable expressing their views in this scene than in other rock scenes. I'm glad you and Doc are addressing this even though people are clearly going to get butthurt about it.
Wow! Growing up in the 80s he is spot on!
Can’t say I’ve seen any racism first hand at shows, but have definetly seen some cringe reverse racism. As for the comment sections or chat rooms, I mean it’s always going to be a cesspool
Yeah, it will always be a cesspool until we take the internet away from colored folk.
I think it's difficult I think it depends what you mean by racism....I think Metalheads are very open to people joining the metal community no matter colour of skin gender sexuality...but what I think Metalheads don't want is metal to change for those people....I think some people are kinda reactionary like "well rap is mostly a black space, why can't we have a white space" kinda thing... In a sense. So yeah but no...like to summarize Metalheads are happy with people joining the fanbase of different ethnicities etc..but they want to keep Metal culture as well Metal culture. You can decide if that's racist or not...I get why you'd say it is but it's also somewhat not it's borderline it's like meeeh
It’s a fair question to ask if one wants to be aware of the truth of a thing but many people who don’t believe there’s racism in matal, or that it shouldn’t belong is just as ignorant as people who tout it. Of course there’s racism in metal, especially extreme metal. I wish I could say that Hard core/punk is exempt from this but as I understand it, the skinhead movement came from these forms of music and there’s racist/neo nazi skinheads. I know bc I’ve fought them. But with extreme metal, unlike its rebellious contemporaries attitude of “we’re in your face. F-k you!”, it doesn’t want attention but it’s still unsafe, unfriendly and dangerous.
Norwegian black metal and stuff, yea it’s pretty well known. When you get more to the Prog/Core side of things it starts to dwindle but racism is everywhere no matter what.
This video made me less self concious about having the stickers on the bottom of my muggs
“But I love Sevendust I can’t be anti-Black” 😂
It is not true that there is no punk hardcore nazi music. I've heard of a band called Screwdriver back in the day but I also saw a Justin Theroux doc about nazi punk bands so.
That's not what he was talking about he didn't say they didn't exist he said that it wasn't as prevalent in Punk and Hardcore Finn admitted in another video that nazi Punks are a thing but that they're just not accepted in the culture not to mention the fact that Punk doesn't have a sub genre solely created by racist and for racist Dead Kennedy's released a Punk song in 1981 called Nazi Punks Fuck Off! And many other Punk bands had song titles like punch a nazi in the face or stomp a nazi Meanwhile Metal heads don't do things like this they don't seem to Revolt against the racism at all they usually just say well i'm not racist Okay good for you but you're not doing anything to fight back against it
Punk is way worse but metal is 2nd.
This guy gets it.
Nice chat and views.
Well is crazy that they racism in metal and woke people normalize hated white people and but people are only talking about only one thing in instead of talking about both issues keep up with the great content Finn
If anything... heavy metal isn't as big as it once was due to pop culture. They want cut/copy/paste songs the lamen will listen too.... like every song put out nowadays! You have to have intelligence to appreciate metal, something the world is lacking today!
If you truly appreciate metal then it doesn’t matter what color you are . I’m Puerto Rican and I went to a majority white school with the rest mainly being black . I always fit in with the metal heads . They were welcoming and were excited that I was interested in the music they liked . They introduced me to Black Sabbath and it was a total blessing . Metal Heads are in a class of their own when it comes to the rest of population anyway no matter what color you are . That’s my take
This man had some good takes. The problem with these conversations around racism in metal is that it is American-centric. Does the Japanese metal scene have an issue with racism? The South American metal scene have an issue with racism? Can they even have issues with racism if we define "racism" as the American white supremist version of the idea? It really boils down to the fact that America is broken down into factions and these factions have to export their ideologies to the rest of the world. Metal is just one of the victims of that.
Without a doubt the Japanese metal scene is brutally racist 😂😂😂😂
Doc amazing with his stories he ain't wrong
Are you drinking caffeine free diet coke because you like the taste of it?
Yes
@@prmbapodcast thats some pretty sick Dadcore right there 😎
I HATE THIS SHIT!!! Don't be a follower and be silent when you see racism. Speak up and if it comes down to it take action against this ideology. Good music should be for EVERYONE. I love you ALL. Be good to each other, life's to short.
Doc is obviously super well versed in this sht. His points are reminding me of stuff I’ve heard from super smart ppl I follow. I love how he brought up Obama. How I’d broaden the topic is that the bigotry was always there, roiling beneath the surface, but we as a culture had decided being out and proud about it was gauche. But the backlash to Obama brought out some of the ugliest parts of our culture bc it fed into a fear of white replacement. White ppl loosing power. Trump was what I like to call a whitelash to Obama being POTUS. Trump also gave reg causal bigots the feeling of safety to be out and proud with their bigotry. Those ppl were drawn into the far right movt and further radicalized. Racism has always been a part of America, bc whyte supremacy was part of our founding. It’s been a constant battle to move past it bc it lives on not just in the hearts and minds, but also in systems. The thing that can be frustrating is how while the idea that being racist is bad is recognized, there’s no understanding that ppls individual beliefs are racist and that’s what’s bad. An example being someone I know who gets being racist is bad, but becomes outraged if you were to call him racist after he says actually racist sht. He thinks to be racist you have to say the N word & you have to be super overt. But that’s not how most racists are. They’re justifying police brutality by making the case that black culture is somehow inherently criminal and violent. So he says super racist sht but doesn’t understand that it’s racist.
Also I’d like to point out that metal has had a problem with misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, etc. I stopped listening to metal for awhile bc I got tired of listening to a song only to realize the singer was talking about killing some btch by choking her to death with his c0ck. And even though I’m whyte, straight & cis, my parents were gay and my stepmom was a blk trans woman. I heard a lot of really gross sht said about ppl like my parents in the metal community & the questions that were asked of me weren’t just disrespectful, but bigoted.
I also think Doc is correct about a minority belief being amplified by the internet. But it’s also cyclical. Like 2023 is really reminding me of 2015 era discourse. I also think the cycles are driven by backlash to progress. Like Obama gets elected and there’s a resurgence of racism bc of the backlash to a blk man gaining such power. Also driven by the right using cultural war sht to stay relevant bc they can’t run on tax breaks for billion dollar multinational corporate conglomerates & privatizing social security. So instead they create threats that will rile up their base. So you’ll always see this stuff get worse during election cycles. The first freak out over trans ppl using bathrooms that correspond with their gender identity started before a huge midterm election. So to me it’s something that lives in our country but explodes when triggered either by progress or bc it’s been ginned up by cynical political figures. And ofc you’ll see this a lot in communities that are predominantly whyte. It doesn’t mean all metal heads feel this way, but that bc of the whiteness of the space, racists will be drawn to it. So it becomes the job of the non racists in those species to become militantly anti racist and drive that bigoted element out. Make metal a non safe space for the bigots.
Self immolation can be a beautiful thing
There is ZERO racism issue in metal. Laughable. If anything - its discrimination against Christians, Jews, etc.
I love Sevendus I just saw them this past Saturday pissed off that their set got cut short and the stage lost power so bs
I think I'm hearing a lot of implications that Doc is saying that i could interpret as "racist" as well. He seems to be coming from a particular point of view that holds a lot of racial assumptions that enforce racist ideas, whether he knows it or not. He almost got back to a good point at the end though, so i think it's more that he's been influenced by a lot of the racial politics that have cropped up recently and doesn't realize that this kind of stuff is enforcing racism rather than fighting it.
Self-immolation can be a beautiful thing.
Theres gotta be racist techno out there.
I love how savagely taken out of context this video is by a lot of the negative comments here. It’s like people just hear buzz words and ignore the details 🤦🏻
Like seriously over half of the negative remarks I read are literally addressed IN THE VIDEO and it’s as if people didn’t even watch it lol
Phin is exaggerating so badly just to get this guy to turn to his side and agree with him 100%. It's pathetic to watch. The other guy was calm and had a very reasonable answer for all these questions. Good on him.
this is coming from the dude with the dark throne pfp
I haven't personally witnessed a racism problem in my local scene, especially since I live in a really liberal, tiny city. I think sexism, homophobia and transphobia is more prevalent. However, as soon as you step onto the internet, I see a ton of racism, prejudice, etc. in metal. I think a lot of the pushback towards accusation of racism issues in the overall metal culture is that people don't want to accept that it happens. Some people are so against liberal/"woke" stuff that they reject the possibility of racism in their subculture purely to be against the liberal viewpoints.
most people now days that call their self Liberals are actually leftist not liberal
No but it does have a problem with intolerance towards people's religious beliefs and even the religious people themselves
He looks like Phil anselmo.
Take a shot every time he says like in the first 2 minutes
At this point I honestly don’t know what the term ‘racism’ even
Means anymore as it’s so overused. Growing up it meant you didn’t like people from another race. Going by that definition I really have to say I haven’t encountered much actual racism in metal. I’ve been to quite a few metal shows with a bunch of drunk metalheads and I’ve heard the N word said maybe 3 times over the course of 20 years
Finn: I think racism is bad and we should maybe talk about it
Commenters: wOw i CaNt BeLiEvE hOw WoKe u R!!!!!
😡😡😡
Finn, I think you look for any excuse to trash metal. I have a feeling you can find plenty of racist shit in other forms of music as well. Punk, Hardcore ect. I respect your opinion though.
Being racist in the hardcore scene would be very hazardous to your health
@Punk Rock MBA Podcast clips vouch for that haha
Other forms of music ... names the closet possible sub genres to metal 😂
The fact that Doc understands this subject matter better than Finn does is very telling.
@@yomomscouch2841 What a gay comment
No it doesn't
It’s not that. Because when people constantly bring up the word Racist people don’t get offended anymore. They get annoyed. You Americans think everything is racist
Well. Don’t most metal legends talk about the blues legends that influenced the darker lyrics and story telling and the chords in their music (those blues legends were mostly black) me personally I will listen to your music if it’s good. And that’s all that matters . None of this political or race stuff . It’s what’s in the heart not the skin man.
Yeah, as if it is the color of the skin that "racists" cant stand.
The reason why God Forbid never got huge was because they're black. Straight up.
It's a damn shame too.
It's part of the charm
If you dont like it dont listen to it or support it dude, simple as.
Also I know a huge thorn in this guy's side in a way is the fact that some of these "racist bands" are actually talented intelligent individuals.
Heavy Sigh
Metal is Angry Beat Up Outsider (Love It) Dudes, Singers and Fans.
Racism is everywhere In All Walks, Sports, Hollywood Music Industry. Where We Wanna Get Away From Everyday BS We Watch A Movie (Hear About Oscar's Being Racist Or Bias). We Go To A MLB NFL NBA Game And Colin Is Kneeling Or Lin Is Being Yelled Chicken Wing Fries Or MLB Andy Ronney Is Complaining Too Many Hernandez Fernandez Rodriguez. Now In Metal Phil Alsemo Is A Topic Of Discussion On Mainstream News About Racism (Latino From NYC Love U Phil And Pantera). Anger Is A Gift (Zach RATM) And We Know Hate Is A Cancer. Machinehead Went To Far With Phil IMO. I Was Down With Phil Putting His Front Foot Foward Noticing The NWA Encouraging Hate Towards W Men, Joke In The Hood Was NWA Really Meant No White's Allowed And Some Took That Too The Extremes. Lajon Should Always Be The Only Frontman For 7Dust Cuz He Can F N Belt It In His Own Unique Voice Not Of Course Cuz Affirmative Action. Basically When It's About Metal Let's All Remember It's Our Escape From Thier BS, Yes Those Wearing Nirvana Metallica Shirts And Not Having A Clue We We're Running From Thier Reality That Didn't Include The White Black Latino Asian Kid's Who We're That Whole Time The Chosen One's.
i blame the Swedes
Lol
DERP
What is his son is woke.
No.
Yes.
Its why rap dominates
Because rap isn't racist at all
Rap is racist, but people think it's ok when black people do it
Is this a segment to CNN? Man alive... I won't ever watch you again. Tired of this constant agenda that gets pushed.
Beta conversation
Imagine living through the "mostly peaceful" riots of 2020 and STILL thinking the problem is too much racism rather than not enough. How out of touch do you have to be to still cry about waycism? 😂
You think there’s not enough racism ?
@@josh9181yes.
Yeah there's racism in metal, and who cares.
Tell me your a racist by telling me your a racist. You should care that there is racism
@@josh9181 I'm not racist. But honestly who gives a shit if the frontman of your favorite band says white power or hail hitler. I mean, we can talk about dismembered limbs, mighty warriors, hot chicks, bloody stuff but when a guy mentions something Nazi "oooh lord please stop". Metal is extreme and we talk about extreme stuff, and WW2 was fuckin extreme as fuck. That includes Nazis, gas Chambers, eugenics, ethnic cleansing, tanks, and battles of course.
@@josh9181 don't react they be the main ones crying about "reverse racism" anyway
not you, probably because you're racist
@@Punpun_sugar of course I'm not a reverse racist, actually racism is very stupid. What I'm trying to say is who cares if there's racism in metal. Metal is supposed to be extreme and hence, very idiotic.