I got the exact machine from a friend. He had taken the online locksmith class Bill talks about. My machine, like Bills, also came in the box ( untouched ). If you don't have a straight edge, the machine comes with an " alignment key " with 1 cut in it. You put those keys in, and that allows you to line up the machine perfectly.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you, sir! I’ve been trying to figure out how I’m going to sell it to my bosses that we needed to buy an originator key machine for several thousands of dollars! I don’t think they’re going to go for it but I’m certain they’re gonna like this idea much better! This method will take a little bit of practice but I’m sure I’ll get the hang of it! Thank you for sharing your information! 😃
Hey Bill, you may consider cutting your keys from bow to tip instead of tip to bow. Most dulipacators have blades design to cut from left to right. If you look at your blade and it is off set to the left instead of the center then it might sound better when you cut and also save your blade. The reason for this is more blade depth for deep cuts in keys. I can't quit see your blade but if It's in the center then it doest matter.
I've been using the Foley Belsaw machine for years now. I like it a lot. The micrometer is really a great feature on this machine as it makes it easy to correct miscut keys to add or subtract thousands to fix the correct depths. I don't have a great enough need to upgrade to a code machine... There are a few things I'd like to add here about this video. I noticed that Bill's machine is set up opposite of the way mine is. His locating bar is reversed so he bow of the key is to the left of the clamp. Guess it's just a matter of preference but it looked strange to me. . When cutting the depths start with the lowest cuts and work down. Video shows starting all #2 cuts. Then skip over them 2's and cut the rest the next depth, which is 3 cut. So on to the next depth. I don't like cutting more than 2 steps at a time so when cutting that last number 8. I would have most likely cut to a 6 or 7 before the final cut of the 8. Especially if cutting nickel plated keyed blanks.
Hi Sir. Thank you for this video. Please can you list a link to the course you got your key cutting machine with in the comments and maybe also in the description for those of us interested in also joining a course?
Thank you Bill. I'm interested in getting into the market. As you said the Foley-Belsaw school charges about $1000 and have buy now in a sense and a credit, $35 down $55 a month. I don't think you get the machine until like lesson 8. They need to make their money. Sounds worth it to me due to the training. Sure you'll need a lot more like replacing door jams when someone kicks them out and you need to replace that. Hardware stores sells the whole jam you just need to paint it. Thanks for the info. I found a guy with two Foley-Belsaw machines.
Nice. I actually did the Foley/Belsaw classes years ago when trying to decide what to do with my life. Still have all my books and stuff too. The key cutter is a good machine but i would recommend putting a wire wheel on the end. That way you don't need to jump to a different machine to clean the key. Time saver : ) Great video tho!
It is easy. You just read the workbooks, fill out the worksheet, pick and repin some locks and send them in. I know there are some more advanced courses you can do but i opted out of that. I was informative an i enjoyed doing it but you can save money just buying the things you need and using the internet to teach you. Bill does a great job of it!
@First Name Last Name The Foley/Belsaw course is about 1/3 obsolete outdated info, 1/3 incorrect and just plain wrong, and 1/3 good useful stuff. The problem is that a novice won't know which is which. You're much better off taking the Fundamentals of Locksmithing class from ALOA. The class is six days long and costs about $1,600. They offer the class several times a year, in Dallas and at the annual convention. In 2018, the convention is in Las Vegas. Here's an example of something in the Foley/Belsaw course that is flat-out wrong and incorrect. In the section on Master Keying, it states a rule that all the cuts on the change key must be different from the master key. Professional locksmiths have a word for cuts on the change key that are the same as the cut on the master key: "constant". The more constants you have, the fewer master pins you need. Fewer master pins means fewer incidental keys, which means the lock is more secure. Constants are a good thing. You should include them whenever you can. But the Foley/Belsaw course says never use constants. That's absurd advice. ANSI A156.28 specifies that you should minimize the number of incidental keys by using as few master pins as possible. But Foley/Belsaw says to put master pins in every single chamber, which maximizes the number of master pins. That's opposite the ANSI standards. Their books are full of mistakes like this. But I must admit the course is pretty "easy". If that's all you care about, how easy it is, and you don't care about whether the information you learn is correct or not, then by all means take the Foley/Belsaw course.
sbunny8 Jesus, you just couldn’t resist moving on from a well-reasoned, perfectly civilized comment into a vicious personal attack, could you? Fucking TH-cam comments section.
Is it strictly necessary to cut all of them to 2, and then all the higher ones to 3, and so on, or could you skip that and cut directly to the depth you need in each position?
The micrometer dial on the Foley machine was used to code cut keys. I assume you have to have a 1cut key with the pin spacing and a pair of blank keys to zero the machine. with the complete set of keys you should be able to determine the micrometer settings so that you can do it with the 1 cut key only.
I used to copy keys by drawing the outlines on a piece of paper, and file each cut by hand. I always used keys with no lock, and sometimes a cut was to deep, but whit a small chisel and a hammer, I could 'hammer it up'.
I bought a case of 100 brass padlocks at a auction cheap. Of course they didn't come with the key. I believe they all use the same key. What is the best way to go about decoding one of them to make the needed key?
+bosnianbill Isn't that how is usually done? here on Mex they put a blank in one end and your original on the other end and just do the copy straight from the original; perhaps I'm missing something but I don't see the point of this set of code keys.
Good day Bill,. Do you still have your MicroMetric (5:13)? Do you have a manual for it? I recently had to replace the belt on mine and struggled to get it apart. I would love to find a parts list for it and maybe an exploded diagram. It's my only machine, and thinking about a HPC punch but as a hobbiest it's hard to justify $1500
Can you explain the decoder wheel/tracer vs the regular cutting wheel? Nearly every video I see has the code wheel in place even when they're making duplicates. Is it just that it's a harder wearing cutter wheel? It seems no matter what the shape, is the tracer matches it, it's going to product a copy, right?
Drew Toma check your machine for accurate depth. If that is good check the spacing. Just start by making a copy of the key. If It works the lock well, check your depth/spacing on your keys(use a micrometer) or make sure you are lining the keys up in the same position of each other on the machine, if you are using a different key blank it could be slightly different.
Looks very interesting. I'm just very new at Key cutting. Got myself a machine and some LW4 & LW5 keys to start out with. Can you tell me a good place to get blanks for a reasonable price that will allow me to mix and match smaller quantities so I can build up my stock? tnx. .-.-.
bosnianbill No no good with eBay. I am after Australian typical blanks. I managed to get some LW4 & LW5 blanks from China but can not find a source for the early Holden (GMH) motor vehicle or Australia Post Office Box keys which are two of the main ones I am after now. Also the early common Toyota and Mitsubishi keys. .-.-.
Check the downloads section of the Tribal Website (locklab.com/resources/downloads/) and look under "Key Information". You can download the key ID guides and look it up.
The micrometer dial on the Foley machine was used to code cut keys. I assume you have to have a 1cut key with the pin spacing and a pair of blank keys to zero the machine. with the complete set of keys you should be able to determine the micrometer settings so that you can do it with the 1 cut key only. insert two blank keys and adjust the micrometer dial so the cutter just touches then insert the one key and adjust the micrometer so it touches the bottom of the cut. then reset the micrometer to zero and it will make a one cut on the blank. it can be retracted an equal amount for each depth. back in the day the machine came with a chart that gave the cut pattern for car keys by serial number. back in the day GM only had 65 cuts for all of their locks.
This process was for cutting keys from a code, rather than duplicating an original. It'd be interesting to try, except I don't have a set of those key templates to follow.
Question about your micrometric unit, what kind of cutting wheel do you use to replace it? just bought one and the damn blade is bent, cant find spare parts listed specifically for that machine. thanks.
Good afternoon, I am speaking to you from Puerto Rico. I would like to know where I can buy that machine to cut the key and where I can buy that tool to get the numerical codes of the keys to have it in my mechanical workshop.
That particular machine has not been made for many years and is considered obsolete. You can find current code cutting machines at most of the major locksmith supply companies. Check out lockpicks.com.
i don't know if it's the only reason, or if it is even the best reason, but from a practical standpoint it helps center the key in the proper location.. if you had a really low and then a really high cut next to each other, the high cut would be a fairly small ledge, and without the tapered edges, the key would float in and out more and would have a much greater margin for error when it comes to key placement. also, the cutting wheels for all machines have various tapered edges to allow smooth transition between cut depths, so the high points between depths are just the pattern that is left after only cutting away the necessary materials.
They act as ramps to allow the pins to ride up and down as the key is inserted; if they were just square edges, the key would just get stuck if the pin encountered the 90 degree step on a key. Probably the reason there would be codes that wouldn't be very good, if there were large steps between consecutive notches. It'd be difficult to insert and remove a key from a lock pinned that way.
Excercises the pins. You don’t want the pins to only ever move from rest position to their shear line, it will be more likely to jam and easier to pick after a decade or two of use.
Looks like Foley Bradshaw machine?how do u like it machine? I'm just starting out but think for the money I couldn't go wrong all the replacement pArts for machine are cheap wit h is always a plus in my book.
Need some advice from someone. I'm looking for a more challenging lock. I was thinking maybe a best, or an american lock so I could pick it and repin it. Anyone have any advice here? What would be the best value getting the lock, multiple cores, and pins? Also, is the best place to buy these products from ebay?
User Name different locks different challenges. I like American because of a smaller keyway and spool pins. Best is more of a challenge due to the special pin kit and stack height. If you don't plan to rekey it and just want a challenge the a Best 7 pin lock with a crazy shape keyway. EBay is one of the best ways I think to get cylinders or locks.
Yeah, lately I've been trying to expand my repertoire to things other than challenge locks. They are fun, but I found myself in a rut. I'll still do them, but not a constant stream of them.
it would need some modification, such as cutting away material from the shoulder, but yes. In theory, it would be the same cuts that you would use to make a bump key since it is the lowest possible pin height used by the factory.
On the other day, I go to duplicate a smiley shape dimple key and the locksmith guy did it in a couple minutes for less than $1, do you have any idea how he did it ? there must have some special machine for that kind of key right? or you can just do it by hands?
I sure do wish he would have picked a key with more hi-low variations right next to each other. That's what I'm having problems with. When I cut something like an SC1 to 91827, I get all kind of weird angles between bits. I understand WHY (angles on the cutting wheel aren't symmetrical) but I don't understand how to correct it.
I would mess up so many times on that machine, both the cutter at work and my own cutter got the blade on the right side and the alignment tool on the left and been useing those for seven years.
This is all good information!! And for most applications this would work fine. The only problem is that a key cutting machine is not accurate enough for sensitive locks like Best, Corbin, and a few others. Not even the "professional" machines that bonded locksmiths use. I have seen the older Best keys that barely have a dimpled mark on them. Measured out at .005". You can however do it with a vise, digital calipers, small file, and if you can, try to get OEM blanks. What you have explained here, is that for all other applications, this method will fill the need just fine.
Two things...MACS is maximum adjacent cut specification and Master purchased American. They were originally two separate companies, which is why the depths don't match.
If u have the key ur copying wouldn't tracing onto a blank be fastest? Could a guy study the code positions so well that u could identify the code numbers by eye? I figured you only need to worry about figuring out the code when u pick a lock with no available key to look at? Other wise it's just tracing the original key on hand onto the blank then cutting by hand or machine
This is why I'm working on using lishi 2 in one pick decoders to open the lock then using the same pick to record each code accurately and fast. From there u can cut a copy by hand with a lishi key cutting hand tool. And they make lishis for damn near every lock ever even cars.. it takes all the guessing out. No need to learn the hard art of blank filing with a file by hand as u wiggle the blank inside the cylinder and judging the code correctly by sight when the pins scratch the blank. It's not always accurate or easy to get it to work. The lishis now have evened the playing field for beginners and makes it so a guy like me was able to unlock my from door and then decode the lock and draw up diagram of what the new cut key should look like. All without looking at the original or having to guess and file over n over.. And after I compared it to the actual key it was dead on .. and I'm an intermediate beginner smith..
Anyone own Chinese made model 598B horizon key cutting machine? I have some difficult setting the jaw & clamp up for proper height and width for cutting double sided Toyota key.
I've watched quite a few of your videos. I want to start cutting my own keys and have seen various machines for a few hundred pounds being sold online. They're all made in China but I don't have any idea of the quality. Have you done a video or have any recommendations of a machine that I could buy? Thanks.
I wouldn't give you $25 for a Foley Belsaw key machine. I found one in my closet two months ago and threw it in the dumpster. I considered trying to sell it but I didn't like the idea of taking some poor sap's money in exchange for a horrible key machine. Get something high quality like an HPC or an Ilco. Our shop has two HPC Speedex machines, a Bianchi, a Borkey, and four HPC 1200CMB Blitz code machines. Our attic is filled with junk key machines that people gave to us for free and the Foley Belsaw was the worst of the worst. The last time I checked, you could get a brand new HPC Mini Speedex duplicator for about $300 with a warranty and it's ten times better than the Foley Belsaw.
First off, great video!! I've always had a deep interest in locksmithing, but only as a hobby and I've watched many of your videos. A family member recently bought a 2013 Honda van. It has one of the sidewinder keys and the stealership wants upwards of 175 American pesos to cut and program one. The closest Honda dealer is 60 miles away. It really made me think about getting one of those cheap laser key cutters like the DEFU. I am well aware "you get what you pay for", but I can't find a lot of info good or bad about them. I live in a very rural area and I think it would be good to have someone local that could at least make spares. Is there anyone that can give a little guidance on these types of machines? Any input on this would be extremely appreciated!
I got the Defu 368a and successfully made a copy of a GM key. Honda is a bit trickier because the cuts extend to the side of the key, so the keys need to be shimmed up above the level of the clamps, but it should be fairly straightforward. Just have to be careful to match up the guide and end mill bit positions to the original and blank, and take it slow when cutting.
. . . . . come on.Wild Bill, there. Must be a (cheaper) way around all of us attempting and searching for key cutting machines ! Use your Engineering skills, experience and show us all away to make a home made substitute !! ;)
AIUI the main advantage of decoding and code cutting is that it gives you a high-quality cut regardless of how well-cut the original was. With mechanical copying there is a loss of cut precision with each generation of copy.
also if you lost the only key for a building and there are 500 doors the cost would out way re pinning, replace every door so you take one apart see what pins are what code cut a key simpler. :)
donydamj My opinion is if you lost the key/have it stolen and that key works 500 locks you should really rekey the 500 locks unless you are 100% sure it won't come back to haunt you or anybody else in those 500 rooms.
IncubusBG@WorldOfTanks Demo of how to make a code cut key in a duplicator. Most locksmith etc. have "code machines" which have a many different space and depths for many different keys.
Very cleverly done. Thanks for making another great tutorial.
Now I want a duplicator ever more.
Hey Bill, just wishing you and your family well, I am sure everyone agrees we miss your content, but understand family matters most.
Thank you for being amongst the most valuable of my small ecosystem of lock teachers.
Excellent professional job of not only the video but the work.
I got the exact machine from a friend. He had taken the online locksmith class Bill talks about. My machine, like Bills, also came in the box ( untouched ). If you don't have a straight edge, the machine comes with an " alignment key " with 1 cut in it. You put those keys in, and that allows you to line up the machine perfectly.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you, sir! I’ve been trying to figure out how I’m going to sell it to my bosses that we needed to buy an originator key machine for several thousands of dollars! I don’t think they’re going to go for it but I’m certain they’re gonna like this idea much better! This method will take a little bit of practice but I’m sure I’ll get the hang of it!
Thank you for sharing your information!
😃
I like the handsome flipping guy at the end!
I found one of those key cutters in my shop. Definitely helps out my lock picking hobby. I also might make new picks with it
I know that this is an older video but I just wanted to say thank you for the great tutorial. All the best!
Hey Bill, you may consider cutting your keys from bow to tip instead of tip to bow. Most dulipacators have blades design to cut from left to right. If you look at your blade and it is off set to the left instead of the center then it might sound better when you cut and also save your blade. The reason for this is more blade depth for deep cuts in keys. I can't quit see your blade but if It's in the center then it doest matter.
I've been using the Foley Belsaw machine for years now. I like it a lot. The micrometer is really a great feature on this machine as it makes it easy to correct miscut keys to add or subtract thousands to fix the correct depths. I don't have a great enough need to upgrade to a code machine... There are a few things I'd like to add here about this video.
I noticed that Bill's machine is set up opposite of the way mine is. His locating bar is reversed so he bow of the key is to the left of the clamp. Guess it's just a matter of preference but it looked strange to me.
. When cutting the depths start with the lowest cuts and work down. Video shows starting all #2 cuts. Then skip over them 2's and cut the rest the next depth, which is 3 cut. So on to the next depth. I don't like cutting more than 2 steps at a time so when cutting that last number 8. I would have most likely cut to a 6 or 7 before the final cut of the 8. Especially if cutting nickel plated keyed blanks.
Hi Sir. Thank you for this video. Please can you list a link to the course you got your key cutting machine with in the comments and maybe also in the description for those of us interested in also joining a course?
Can this strategy be used for cars
all key lost situation if you have the manufacturer code.
Thank you Bill. I'm interested in getting into the market. As you said the Foley-Belsaw school charges about $1000 and have buy now in a sense and a credit, $35 down $55 a month. I don't think you get the machine until like lesson 8. They need to make their money. Sounds worth it to me due to the training. Sure you'll need a lot more like replacing door jams when someone kicks them out and you need to replace that. Hardware stores sells the whole jam you just need to paint it. Thanks for the info. I found a guy with two Foley-Belsaw machines.
i'm wondering why not just mount the original key in your machine and cut the blank with it? what i'm i missing?
Nice. I actually did the Foley/Belsaw classes years ago when trying to decide what to do with my life. Still have all my books and stuff too. The key cutter is a good machine but i would recommend putting a wire wheel on the end. That way you don't need to jump to a different machine to clean the key. Time saver : ) Great video tho!
It is easy. You just read the workbooks, fill out the worksheet, pick and repin some locks and send them in. I know there are some more advanced courses you can do but i opted out of that. I was informative an i enjoyed doing it but you can save money just buying the things you need and using the internet to teach you. Bill does a great job of it!
Darksims905..: waste of money
@First Name Last Name The Foley/Belsaw course is about 1/3 obsolete outdated info, 1/3 incorrect and just plain wrong, and 1/3 good useful stuff. The problem is that a novice won't know which is which. You're much better off taking the Fundamentals of Locksmithing class from ALOA. The class is six days long and costs about $1,600. They offer the class several times a year, in Dallas and at the annual convention. In 2018, the convention is in Las Vegas.
Here's an example of something in the Foley/Belsaw course that is flat-out wrong and incorrect. In the section on Master Keying, it states a rule that all the cuts on the change key must be different from the master key. Professional locksmiths have a word for cuts on the change key that are the same as the cut on the master key: "constant". The more constants you have, the fewer master pins you need. Fewer master pins means fewer incidental keys, which means the lock is more secure. Constants are a good thing. You should include them whenever you can. But the Foley/Belsaw course says never use constants. That's absurd advice. ANSI A156.28 specifies that you should minimize the number of incidental keys by using as few master pins as possible. But Foley/Belsaw says to put master pins in every single chamber, which maximizes the number of master pins. That's opposite the ANSI standards.
Their books are full of mistakes like this.
But I must admit the course is pretty "easy". If that's all you care about, how easy it is, and you don't care about whether the information you learn is correct or not, then by all means take the Foley/Belsaw course.
sbunny8 Jesus, you just couldn’t resist moving on from a well-reasoned, perfectly civilized comment into a vicious personal attack, could you?
Fucking TH-cam comments section.
Thank you so much! I just bough a set of depth keys! I bought a code cutting guide and wheel for my Foley Belsaw 200.
Where did you find them?
Bill for making keys buy depth cut, when you use the same cutter for years and you get used to it , it works great. !
Is it strictly necessary to cut all of them to 2, and then all the higher ones to 3, and so on, or could you skip that and cut directly to the depth you need in each position?
The micrometer dial on the Foley machine was used to code cut keys. I assume you have to have a 1cut key with the pin spacing and a pair of blank keys to zero the machine. with the complete set of keys you should be able to determine the micrometer settings so that you can do it with the 1 cut key only.
Can you use the first keycuter to cut a2 best keys
If I have a single angle cutter can I still cut keys to code with depth and space keys without damaging my cutter?
You are a legend my friend.
Would be nice to see a video from you every so often
I used to copy keys by drawing the outlines on a piece of paper, and file each cut by hand.
I always used keys with no lock, and sometimes a cut was to deep, but whit a small chisel and a hammer, I could 'hammer it up'.
John Obmar
You could turn the gauge around and number it for American
Great idea thank you.
Without a Depth guage, you can compare Depth Keys to Key. Then cut. Keep up the Good Work
Stratmando
I bought a case of 100 brass padlocks at a auction cheap. Of course they didn't come with the key. I believe they all use the same key. What is the best way to go about decoding one of them to make the needed key?
Could you use the depth keys to bump a lock?
Can you put a blank in one end and cut all the depths in one session? granted you have the original in the other end?
+bosnianbill Isn't that how is usually done? here on Mex they put a blank in one end and your original on the other end and just do the copy straight from the original; perhaps I'm missing something but I don't see the point of this set of code keys.
Good day Bill,. Do you still have your MicroMetric (5:13)? Do you have a manual for it? I recently had to replace the belt on mine and struggled to get it apart. I would love to find a parts list for it and maybe an exploded diagram. It's my only machine, and thinking about a HPC punch but as a hobbiest it's hard to justify $1500
What is this mec or mac code ? Can't find it on Google.
could you not use digital calipers to translate the depth and spacing ?
What kind of wheel was on the Porter Cable grinder for cleanup at the end?
What is met code? Mentioned around 1:06 (not sure of spelling but thats what it sounds like)
MACs code - maximum adjacent cut.
Great video BB. Keep up the fantastic work!
Can you explain the decoder wheel/tracer vs the regular cutting wheel? Nearly every video I see has the code wheel in place even when they're making duplicates. Is it just that it's a harder wearing cutter wheel? It seems no matter what the shape, is the tracer matches it, it's going to product a copy, right?
Would it be possible for you to upload the footage of making the entire key? I'm messing up somewhere, but I don't know where. Thank you!
Drew Toma check your machine for accurate depth. If that is good check the spacing. Just start by making a copy of the key. If It works the lock well, check your depth/spacing on your keys(use a micrometer) or make sure you are lining the keys up in the same position of each other on the machine, if you are using a different key blank it could be slightly different.
What is the machine at the end if the video called?
Looks very interesting. I'm just very new at Key cutting. Got myself a machine and some LW4 & LW5 keys to start out with. Can you tell me a good place to get blanks for a reasonable price that will allow me to mix and match smaller quantities so I can build up my stock? tnx. .-.-.
bosnianbill
No no good with eBay. I am after Australian typical blanks. I managed to get some LW4 & LW5 blanks from China but can not find a source for the early Holden (GMH) motor vehicle or Australia Post Office Box keys which are two of the main ones I am after now. Also the early common Toyota and Mitsubishi keys. .-.-.
You can see Bosnianbills Face in the spark protection glass in the last scene :D
I would like to make a couple of keys for some older sargent locks. Where can I find a diagram of sargent keyways?
Check the downloads section of the Tribal Website (locklab.com/resources/downloads/) and look under "Key Information". You can download the key ID guides and look it up.
The micrometer dial on the Foley machine was used to code cut keys. I assume you have to have a 1cut key with the pin spacing and a pair of blank keys to zero the machine. with the complete set of keys you should be able to determine the micrometer settings so that you can do it with the 1 cut key only.
insert two blank keys and adjust the micrometer dial so the cutter just touches then insert the one key and adjust the micrometer so it touches the bottom of the cut. then reset the micrometer to zero and it will make a one cut on the blank. it can be retracted an equal amount for each depth. back in the day the machine came with a chart that gave the cut pattern for car keys by serial number. back in the day GM only had 65 cuts for all of their locks.
Excellent tutorial!!
Why not use the original key as a template to follow when cutting?
This process was for cutting keys from a code, rather than duplicating an original. It'd be interesting to try, except I don't have a set of those key templates to follow.
Illinois says I cannot have the code keys 😕
They’re considered bump keys
Question about your micrometric unit, what kind of cutting wheel do you use to replace it? just bought one and the damn blade is bent, cant find spare parts listed specifically for that machine. thanks.
Can I use some Calipers to measure my keys?? any chart to convert .223" or so unto Key #'s like 2 , 4 , or 5 ????? American AM-3 key today.
+Paul Couch found it at kstoerz.com/locksport/bitting/
Paul Couch wn
Pleasantly surprised by your cameo appearance at the end!
Thanks for the Awesome Demo on cutting to code but Why not just chuck up the master and cut a duplicate off that saves ton of time.
love these videos Bill, really informative and interesting. keep it up.
Good afternoon, I am speaking to you from Puerto Rico. I would like to know where I can buy that machine to cut the key and where I can buy that tool to get the numerical codes of the keys to have it in my mechanical workshop.
That particular machine has not been made for many years and is considered obsolete. You can find current code cutting machines at most of the major locksmith supply companies. Check out lockpicks.com.
hi I'm from the UK . would I be able to get one of those key cutters . just what I'm looking for
I have both those key cutters and both work well .
Sorry for noob question, but what's the purpose of leaving all the spikes between the pins?
i don't know if it's the only reason, or if it is even the best reason, but from a practical standpoint it helps center the key in the proper location..
if you had a really low and then a really high cut next to each other, the high cut would be a fairly small ledge, and without the tapered edges, the key would float in and out more and would have a much greater margin for error when it comes to key placement.
also, the cutting wheels for all machines have various tapered edges to allow smooth transition between cut depths, so the high points between depths are just the pattern that is left after only cutting away the necessary materials.
VGScreens it's to keep the key from pulling out while the cylinder is turned and the cuts are relatively close
They act as ramps to allow the pins to ride up and down as the key is inserted; if they were just square edges, the key would just get stuck if the pin encountered the 90 degree step on a key. Probably the reason there would be codes that wouldn't be very good, if there were large steps between consecutive notches. It'd be difficult to insert and remove a key from a lock pinned that way.
Excercises the pins. You don’t want the pins to only ever move from rest position to their shear line, it will be more likely to jam and easier to pick after a decade or two of use.
Nice video, I am a beginner at this, I would like to ask, whether we can cut laser-cut keys with some cheap drill machines like dafu by code? Thanks.
Can we use these keys for bumping ?
you would also need to file the shoulder back.
Just use files if you don't care about how ugly they'll come out. It's easy and only takes like 10 minutes to make a fully functional bump key.
Looks like Foley Bradshaw machine?how do u like it machine? I'm just starting out but think for the money I couldn't go wrong all the replacement pArts for machine are cheap wit h is always a plus in my book.
Need some advice from someone. I'm looking for a more challenging lock. I was thinking maybe a best, or an american lock so I could pick it and repin it. Anyone have any advice here? What would be the best value getting the lock, multiple cores, and pins? Also, is the best place to buy these products from ebay?
User Name different locks different challenges. I like American because of a smaller keyway and spool pins. Best is more of a challenge due to the special pin kit and stack height. If you don't plan to rekey it and just want a challenge the a Best 7 pin lock with a crazy shape keyway. EBay is one of the best ways I think to get cylinders or locks.
Great video.
A change from opening challenge locks.
Thanks for showing key codes.
I have heard of it but not seen it till now.
Yeah, lately I've been trying to expand my repertoire to things other than challenge locks. They are fun, but I found myself in a rut. I'll still do them, but not a constant stream of them.
@Bosnianbill where can i buy one of the key cutting machines im in canada?
what type brush on that grinder ?
So if it's cut to the same depth... Can't the "8" cut be used as a bump key?
it would need some modification, such as cutting away material from the shoulder, but yes. In theory, it would be the same cuts that you would use to make a bump key since it is the lowest possible pin height used by the factory.
Bump keys are cut just a touch deeper than the deepest possible cut for that lock type.
is the pin cylinder the same thickness
that is so cool where can I get those depth keys
you cant.
On the other day, I go to duplicate a smiley shape dimple key and the locksmith guy did it in a couple minutes for less than $1, do you have any idea how he did it ? there must have some special machine for that kind of key right? or you can just do it by hands?
I have that exact same Micro machine. Sounds exactly the same too!
I sure do wish he would have picked a key with more hi-low variations right next to each other. That's what I'm having problems with. When I cut something like an SC1 to 91827, I get all kind of weird angles between bits. I understand WHY (angles on the cutting wheel aren't symmetrical) but I don't understand how to correct it.
what are you 3d printing in the back? i know that sound anywhere lol
Thank you for teaching us
This is what i have been looking for
I would mess up so many times on that machine, both the cutter at work and my own cutter got the blade on the right side and the alignment tool on the left and been useing those for seven years.
This is all good information!! And for most applications this would work fine. The only problem is that a key cutting machine is not accurate enough for sensitive locks like Best, Corbin, and a few others. Not even the "professional" machines that bonded locksmiths use. I have seen the older Best keys that barely have a dimpled mark on them. Measured out at .005". You can however do it with a vise, digital calipers, small file, and if you can, try to get OEM blanks. What you have explained here, is that for all other applications, this method will fill the need just fine.
couldnt you just mount the first key in the key cutter s\and do the same thing?
Two things...MACS is maximum adjacent cut specification and Master purchased American. They were originally two separate companies, which is why the depths don't match.
I figured eBay did this because i looked over there and found virtually nothing. But ill find one. Would this process work to cut car keys?
I know this is an 8 yr old video, but I just use a blank in each block to ensure my depth is set correctly.
What am I missing here? Couldn’t he have put the key that he wanted to duplicate in the machine with the blank and just duplicate it?
If u have the key ur copying wouldn't tracing onto a blank be fastest? Could a guy study the code positions so well that u could identify the code numbers by eye? I figured you only need to worry about figuring out the code when u pick a lock with no available key to look at? Other wise it's just tracing the original key on hand onto the blank then cutting by hand or machine
This is why I'm working on using lishi 2 in one pick decoders to open the lock then using the same pick to record each code accurately and fast. From there u can cut a copy by hand with a lishi key cutting hand tool. And they make lishis for damn near every lock ever even cars.. it takes all the guessing out. No need to learn the hard art of blank filing with a file by hand as u wiggle the blank inside the cylinder and judging the code correctly by sight when the pins scratch the blank. It's not always accurate or easy to get it to work. The lishis now have evened the playing field for beginners and makes it so a guy like me was able to unlock my from door and then decode the lock and draw up diagram of what the new cut key should look like. All without looking at the original or having to guess and file over n over.. And after I compared it to the actual key it was dead on .. and I'm an intermediate beginner smith..
As a beginner the ljshi picks and cutter have made me comparable to a 15 year long pro. After day 2 of receiving them in the mail.
As always great video! Thanks!
Hi Bosnianbill, Will it be the same principle for auto keys ?
where can I get a cheep key cutter
+Aj Ball e bay 6:10
Anyone own Chinese made model 598B horizon key cutting machine?
I have some difficult setting the jaw & clamp up for proper height and width for cutting double sided Toyota key.
Maybe a silly question but why couldn’t you just use the original key instead of the the depth keys?
Excellent as usual!
I've watched quite a few of your videos. I want to start cutting my own keys and have seen various machines for a few hundred pounds being sold online. They're all made in China but I don't have any idea of the quality.
Have you done a video or have any recommendations of a machine that I could buy?
Thanks.
Bill I just picked up a curtis 2000k at a thrift store for $30!! Looking forward to playing with it
I need a couple of those cheap machines but cant find them on ebay :(
I have no idea how you got that Foley Belsaw machine for $75. They're going on eBay for $250+ right now.
Mine needed a complete rebuild and was covered in oil and debris. It took about a week to do the rebuild and replace a bunch of parts.
Nick'sGarageDoorService i bought two for 100!
I got mine from a co-worker for 30$
I wouldn't give you $25 for a Foley Belsaw key machine. I found one in my closet two months ago and threw it in the dumpster. I considered trying to sell it but I didn't like the idea of taking some poor sap's money in exchange for a horrible key machine. Get something high quality like an HPC or an Ilco. Our shop has two HPC Speedex machines, a Bianchi, a Borkey, and four HPC 1200CMB Blitz code machines. Our attic is filled with junk key machines that people gave to us for free and the Foley Belsaw was the worst of the worst.
The last time I checked, you could get a brand new HPC Mini Speedex duplicator for about $300 with a warranty and it's ten times better than the Foley Belsaw.
@@sbunny8 Why is it horrible? A tool is only limited by the hands its in. And its a poor craftsman that blames his tools.
First off, great video!! I've always had a deep interest in locksmithing, but only as a hobby and I've watched many of your videos. A family member recently bought a 2013 Honda van. It has one of the sidewinder keys and the stealership wants upwards of 175 American pesos to cut and program one. The closest Honda dealer is 60 miles away. It really made me think about getting one of those cheap laser key cutters like the DEFU. I am well aware "you get what you pay for", but I can't find a lot of info good or bad about them. I live in a very rural area and I think it would be good to have someone local that could at least make spares. Is there anyone that can give a little guidance on these types of machines? Any input on this would be extremely appreciated!
I got the Defu 368a and successfully made a copy of a GM key. Honda is a bit trickier because the cuts extend to the side of the key, so the keys need to be shimmed up above the level of the clamps, but it should be fairly straightforward.
Just have to be careful to match up the guide and end mill bit positions to the original and blank, and take it slow when cutting.
Thanks for information B.
why not put the existing key in instead of switching the numbered keys?
The point is to use a code cutting set to cut to a code without an expensive machine
Love your videos!
. . . . . come on.Wild Bill, there. Must be a (cheaper) way around all of us attempting and searching for key cutting machines !
Use your Engineering skills, experience and show us all away to make a home made substitute !! ;)
I've seen them in 3rd world countries copy keys, they just take a file and a blank and copy the original key till it works...LOL
I have done just that many times (cutting keys in a vise with a file) and always ended up with a functional key. BTW, I live in the USA.
@@ohyikes1 I've done that on many occasion as well, and I'm a lock smith who also lives in USA.
very nice keys
Great video. Any way to get in Contact with Jose from Puerto Rico
Try PMing him.
Bosnianbill yes I would like that if you can point me to a link if he has a video o a way for me to PM him
THANK YOU!!!
I have a box of different depth keys and have had mixed results. The best tip is to go slow!
And here i'm thinking the lishi cutter is the bomb.....😀
Noob question - why don`t u just mount the original key and grind the copy to it?
Or is this just a demo of how to make a code cut?
AIUI the main advantage of decoding and code cutting is that it gives you a high-quality cut regardless of how well-cut the original was. With mechanical copying there is a loss of cut precision with each generation of copy.
also if you lost the only key for a building and there are 500 doors the cost would out way re pinning, replace every door so you take one apart see what pins are what code cut a key simpler. :)
donydamj My opinion is if you lost the key/have it stolen and that key works 500 locks you should really rekey the 500 locks unless you are 100% sure it won't come back to haunt you or anybody else in those 500 rooms.
IncubusBG@WorldOfTanks Demo of how to make a code cut key in a duplicator. Most locksmith etc. have "code machines" which have a many different space and depths for many different keys.
What about that one guy that already has a key haunting 499 rooms?