Villain Therapy: LOKI
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2021
- Is Loki's villainy the result of nature or nurture? He is the god of mischief, but he's also got a lot of family problems...
Licensed therapist Jonathan Decker and filmmaker Alan Seawright explore Loki's character arc in the MCU, from his adopted father Odin's propensity to compare him to his brother Thor, to narcissistic traits (he is rather convinced of his own glorious purpose, and calls himself the savior of Asgard...), to why we all love when Hulk smashes him into the floor and calls him a puny god.
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Written by: Megan Seawright, Jonathan Decker and Alan Seawright
Produced by: Jonathan Decker, Megan Seawright & Alan Seawright
Edited by: Trevor Horton, tzhediting.com
Director of Photography: Bradley Olsen
English Transcription by: Anna Preis - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
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“No one wants to see a movie of Thor and Loki being bros”
Uh...yes, yes we do.
I WOULD DIE FOR THOR AND LOKI TO JUST ✨H U G✨
I was thinking just that . Loki using his abilities to troll and keep the villains at bay, while Thor hack and slashes everyone with his lightening. They will still have their dynamics, as all siblings have them, but they would redirect the anger at the real enemy or problem at hand.
We do.
We also demand insight into how “get help” came into being.
I would watch the crap out of that movie!! 😆
Yes, I would love that!
I find it so funny that Loki did so much to get on the throne, and then when he got it he wasn't even an evil ruler. He just ate grapes and watched theatre all day lmao
He just loves the title
Right lol
Honestly I’d do the same lol
I'd get a council, let them run shit and just Netflix and chill all day.
Anya the Panther even better, I’d grab some friends. Comedy shows or horror shows are better with people. You can either laugh with them or if you’re like me who loves the scares, can laugh at others for startling
“Trust my rage” is such a *GOOD* LINE and it doesn’t get talked about enough. Thor is questioning where Loki’s loyalties lie, and if he is just going to simply turn on him again. He doesn’t trust Loki, and Loki knows this. He doesn’t tell Thor “Trust me”. He doesn’t try to convince him that he wants what Thor wants, because he knows that there is nothing he could say that Thor would 100% believe, because that’s just who Loki is, Thor knows him as a trickster. Instead, Loki says “Trust my rage”. His mother was killed by an elf. Loki’s only lasting love was his mother. They had the closest bond of anyone in the family. Loki was *distraught* about this. He is pissed at the elves. He is telling Thor that even if he cannot trust Loki’s morals, his character, trust that he is angry, and that he will do anything to take revenge, even if that means working with Thor. He is saying “Trust that my rage is not directed at you right now”
That line and the way Loki is shown in that film is why it's my favorite (that's right i said it, who wants some?).
Loki is a mama's boy. He tries to put up a brave face and say he's okay, he's cool, he's not bothered. Thor sees through this illusion effortlessly. We see how broken Loki is about his mother's death.
"Trust my rage" says so much.
@@glenngriffon8032 Oh my gosh same- I feel like that movie was more about Loki than it was Thor, and I LOVE it
Because Loki did end up bailing all over again, he's Loki after all, but Thor can trust Loki wouldn't do anything to jeopardize getting revenge.
I think the reason that the line doesn't get talked about that much is exactly because it _is_ so good that you don't _need_ to talk about it:
Three small words, and they say everything:
- "I'm not going to argue that I won't betray you _this_ time, because you'd have to be a moron to fall for that"
- "I'm not going to be insulted, or pretend to be, about you expecting me to betray you because that's what I always do and we both know it"
- "Right now I want to get the killers of my mother a hell of a lot more than I ever wanted to get one over at you."
... and maybe:
- "part of why this rage is all that matters right now is I that some of the guilt is mine, and I know it".
Because Loki smashing his cell could be just rage about the death of his mother, but him walking over broken glass and not even caring? That's guilt.
I wish I could for at least ten seconds find the joy in these movies that other people do. I get what the scene is talking about or implying but I never buy into it for reasons one of the hosts said in that everything around them is ridiculous lol. The set, the costumes, the over the top delivery…It’s so hard to suspend my disbelief but I’m glad you and the 1k+ upvoters enjoy it.
I love how Dr strange handled Loki. He was straight up like "I'm not dealing with that asshole" so left him falling for 30 minutes, then teleported him away 🤣🤣🤣
My favorite Marvel scene of all time 🤣🤣🤣
It's also a quick demonstration of the power hierarchy: in a previous movie, it took all of the avengers, including the unstopable Hulk, to even knock him out for a while. Dr Strange just flicks his hand as if he's getting rid of a fly.
@@Julia-lk8jn Seems more like a demonstration of the "Dragon Ball Z diminishing returns of escalating super-villains" problem
@@L_Martin Not really Loki was never really all that powerful to begin with he just had a lot of help not to mention the thing that you describe existed long before DBZ.
@@johnman8398 I know it predates DBZ, John...
I know someone who adopted a baby. She said she was so nervous about how she might one day tell the child their adoption story, so she began "practicing" by telling the story to the baby when they were a baby. And she kept telling them the story, so the baby grew up always knowing how they were chosen and loved and how they made their family better. Pretty wonderful to grow up in that family.
Absolutely the best thing to do. Don’t make it a reveal. Just be honest with kids and don’t lie to them, not even “for their own good” because usually that just means for the parents’ convenience and avoidance
I’m adopted and my parents did the same thing! It’s honestly the best way you can be raised as an adopted child. When it comes to the “reveal” aspect, that is.
@@DecemberSfy I'm also adopted and I've always known. I don't remember being told, I just always knew. And it was never treated like a weird thing, my friends always knew and it wasn't until I was older that anyone ever had an off reaction to it. It was normal even though I was the only adopted kid I knew of. I can't even imagine the trauma of kids who find out and feel betrayed. My sympathy to them.
I'm not adopted, but I want to when I get older. I've always believed that adopted children are special because while blood parents never know what they are going to get, that adopted parent saw that child and saw something special in them that they loved and wanted to cherish. They were chosen on purpose. I find that beautiful
This is so wholesome. I'm hoping to adopt when I decide I'm ready for kids and honestly this seems like the best course of action. Don't make it a "reveal," let the kid know their whole life that they were chosen by two people who were ready to give them the world.
One of the saddest things about Loki finding out he’s adopted is that he’s been raised to hate Jotun’s his whole life, so he’s already been taught to hate himself without knowing it until now.
ouch...
Ooph. Yeah. Wow. That's a horrible realization.
And we see this happen irl with native kids that where sent to white families 😬
Damn. Never thought of it that way. I can see how that would mess up one's mind. Even that of a god...
@@axel4196 art tends to pull from reality. A lot of element's you find in fantasy you can find irl.
I would love to see a skit of an Odin family therapy session where loki is just screaming, Frigga is trying to calm him down, thor is crying, Odin looks like he wanted to leave an hour ago and the therapist is aggressively scribbling down notes and trying to help
This is exactly how I would picture it 😂 it would be gold to see this!
and hela had to be chained to the chair so she wont murder odin in the office
Preferably with the fake cast of Loki’s play. 😂
I’m sorry but that made me laugh so hard. Just the mental image.
i wanna see a fanart of this 😭
The other reason the "There are always men like you" is so powerful is this, he knew he would die for standing up. He grew up or fought in that war. He knew what standing up would mean for him. He just hoped to inspire others, because if enough stood up, Lori would lose.
I don't know if there's any proof, but I always believed the old man who stood up was a concentration camp survivor.
@@bravehome4276 Me too. He sounded more like an Austrian or like he spoke with the wisdom of a man who has seen the horrors on men like him, and I just knew from the get-go considering my grandpa's side used to be Jewish before coming to America, and my great grandparents and one of my grandparents were survivors that told me everything, so I knew the second he delivered those lines that he was a survivor of something horrible, and with that accent, more than likely the Holocaust.
@@bravehome4276 It has been confirmed by the creators that the man is a Holocaust survivor.
Don't wanna be rude but it's Loki. Not Lori 😅
@@hlumi.t3755 True! 😂
“Hiddleston’s acting is so good”
*Everyone liked that*
You just challenged Loki haters XD
We already been knew
Loki: i'm going to confront you with all your shitty parenting!
Odin: oop time to pass out.
"ah well you see, I kinda have an appointment I'm late for, a-and you know I can't miss it. Pick this conversation back up never."
"Oh I can't refuse to participate? Guess I'll just die then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "
YES OMG IT WAS TOO MUCH FOR HIM TO HANDLE THAT LIKE OLD MAN YOU DID THIS TO YOURSELF
I don't blame Odin for going in Odinsleep at that moment. He was overdue for that and the conversation was very stressful, so it just happened (I don't think he chose to do that). But I do blame him for not having that conversation way, way earlier.
Where I live, it is a part of the law about adoption that the adoptive parents tell their adopted child the truth by the time the child turns five. And I think at that age it's a much easier conversation. A five year old wouldn't really think it is a big deal. Also it's unlikely that the small child would have found out on their own.
@@hekkoCZ I know it's not meant to he on purpose, but I always find myself laughing at how he just dips out when loki starts yelling at him
The "tell me" scene is what made me fall in love with loki as a character. As a disabled person my agency is so often taken away and all I want is to be communicated with like an equal. The frustration that I feel when things are hidden from me, even out of love or trying to protect me, is immeasurable. I feel such intense flaming rage when people treat me as inferior or other or incapable. Loki's struggle is my struggle and I'm so glad I found a character I can relate to in that way.
THANK YOU! I could never understand why this hit me so hard, but this is exactly it! This this this! A thousand times this!
Agreed, people hiding major things from you it feels like they lack trust in you, whether it be trust that you can handle it, or trust that you will not do something wrong after the cat is outta the bag, or just trust in general.
Also, that " *TELL ME!!!* " is just so powerfully delivered it sends shivers down my spine... made me appreciate Hiddleson even more.
@@starcycle4308 tm
My
I agree he is definitely one of my favorite characters of the MCU. Loki the show is a must watch.
agreed. i hate being sheltered from things that if i was told them earlier, things might have hurt less then when i was wasnt prepared. it hurts more when you cant help because you dont know whats going on then if you cant help because its out of your control.
I really think people just greatly misinterpret Loki's character and motives bc they never get the full story and just make conclusions from the movies alone, especially the first Thor movie. (Which in this video is fine cuz that seems to be the intention, to just interpret what is being clearly shown and said)
But if it's really about Loki as a character, there are points that really bother me never being addressed:
1) Odin didn't take Loki out of the goodness of his heart or bc he pitied him
2) Frigga said Odin didn't tell Loki bc he didn't want him to feel different (even though treating him different the whole time) bc she probably wants to believe it's like that bc that's her reason
3) "Your birthright was to die", is the sentence that, I think, clearly shows what Odin really thinks
4) Asgard sees Jötunn as brutal, ruthless monsters and Loki was raised to think about them like that, too (as is also being addressed by him arguing with Odin)
5) Thor's friends (and probably other Asgardians) didn't treat Loki as as an equal and belittled/made fun of him for his magic skills (cuz Asgard is all about bodily strength & brute force, not about "pretty illusions", strategies & mind games; also I have the theory that his skills were seen as something "womanly" or "ridiculous" bc Frigga seems to be the only one who uses magic in Asgard and he only has those skills bc she taught him since she probably noticed Loki's talents don't lie in pure strength)
6) Thor treated him like that, too and never made any move or seemed to have the intention to stop his friends bc for him it was probably just out of "good fun" and didn't think it was that serious
7) His love & knack for mischief already naturally made him an outsider in Asgard, where the people don't seem to be fond of tricks and pranks at all
8) Loki hates his Jötunn heritage bc of how he was raised and has so much self hatred for what he is
9) Thor was NOT suitable as a King at all and Loki noticed that, Thor always acted just irresponsible before he got sent down to earth and yet Odin still always praised and favoured him
10) After Loki let go of the spear and floated into the void (literally commiting suicide btw) he was found by Thanos and got tortured until he broke and agreed to attack earth as part of Thanos plan (honestly never understood how people didn't see that he was tortured when he appeared in the Avengers, like he looked AWFUL)
*btw someone from the medical field pointed out to me, that the symptoms Loki showed/how he looked where signs that he was (among probably many other things) tortured with extreme heat, which as a Jötunn is definitely the worst
11) he was, apart from being supervised through it, also influenced by the scepter with the mind stone, you could literally see that his eyes were blue like the stone's
more of a theory but many others also seem to think that:
12) Loki's plan with the chitauri was so easy to figure out despite him being such a cunning strategist, bc after Hulk smashed him his mind wasn't influenced by the scepter anymore (but obviously still supervised through Thanos minions) and he purposefully set the plan up poorly, just to fail in the end (someone in a yt video also analyzed the convo between Black Widow and Loki, pointing out where he seemed to drop hints, making it seem like she figured his plan out while he basically just told her)
10) In an interview, Tom Hiddleston said he and Joss Whedon had a conversation about what happened to Loki between Thor and Avengers. I don't remember the details, but I got the impression he was tortured or at least suffered physically.
Odin never treated him different, or even favored Thor over him. We're never shown anything like that in the movies. If Loki _feels_ like it, it doesn't make it true. When he found out about his true heritage, he says "It makes so much sense now, why you favored Thor all these years. Because you could never have a Frost Giant sitting on the throne of Asgard". To him, favoring Thor = giving him throne, which is not true. Thor is simply older, Asgardian or not, that's how it works. But Loki being the narcissist he is, couldn't see that.
@PRNC this comment really deserves more likes
YES!!! 🙌🏼 Say it louder for the people in the back!
The only correction that I would make is that magic users were not uncommon on Asgard. They were mainly women tho and men that practiced magic were considered ‘ergi’ which meant unmanly or homosexual depending on the translation.
Loki gave me the impression of being someone who grew up somewhere that his particular talents were undervalued. He was a sneaky sorcerer in a world that valued bold warriors (like a nerd/theatre kid growing up in a world of jocks). He was very proud of what he could do but he was frustrated that no one else around him (except for his mother) really appreciated his talents, so he started thinking of them as too stupid to recognise him for the amazing person that he was, thus the ego.
I have a whole theory about Quentin Beck 'Mysterio' being a secret Loki variant after he told Peter to 'never apologise for being the smartest one in the room'. You can imagine Loki spent his life in a situation where he did exactly that.
It makes sense!
His narcissism was a coping mechanism for his inferiority complex
@@juliaburkholder4213 That's generally how narcs in the real world operate as well. Except unlike Loki, they will never self reflect and admit their short comings.
Huh. That actually names p a lot of sense.
A small correction: Loki learned magic from his and Thor's mother, it's not a frost giant trait.
Good catch.
She did say she was a witch ... hmmm.
In Norse mythology, I'm pretty sure frost Giants are often automatically capable of magic, their strength being more so in illusion magic, though if you're referring to the MCU, then, yeah, you're right.
@@lemonade_011 And Thor did ask if Frigga regretted teaching Loki magic
It was also confirmed in the Loki series that it was his mom who taught him. Possibly the only positive influence on him.
I would love to see Cinema Therapy do a part 2. Like they analyze Loki from the Disney+ series. Maybe discuss his character development from the movies into the series, compare any changes in his character, and see if their diagnosis changed since this video
100% agree!!!!! His development as a character has shifted so drastically it's INSANE and i LOVE Loki so much because of it.
Would love that, too.
oh, yes, totally agree
Especially after Season 2!!!
Yess!!
I *love* how Loki says, "Look to your elder, people. Let him be an example." And then suddenly he's pointing at Cap, who is much older than he looks - probably similar in age to the man who stood up - and the whole point of Cap is that he's an example to follow. It's just wonderful.
The “little blue baby icicle” line is even better when you realize that wrote Loki wrote it 😂
I'm sure he had Asgardian playwrights right the actual play itself.
Their also a supervillian named icicle
And a hero! His name is capsicle.
@@darling.3532 I understood that reference
@@operatorcabbage2681 Your welcome XD
If I remember correctly I heard in an interview that loki's grin when thor was telling the story of the stabbing snake is actually Tom hiddleston trying not to laugh because Chris Hemsworth was improvising
They keep it because it match so well loki personality 🤣
If that's true (and I'm rooting for it to be true) that makes Ruffalo's reaction even better.
@@04beni04 pretty sure it is
i literally love that scene sm
@@04beni04 I don't know if it was true it was improv, but they were going to do a flashback to roll over the story, but the take was so good for showing the characters they cut it.
I heard that too.
I’ve always been really interested by Odin saying, “small for a giant’s offspring, abandoned, left to die,” because to me that can be easily interpreted by Loki to mean, “see even these horrible enemies didn’t want you but we found a use for you so you should be grateful”
And then we find it was a lie. Odin killed all those protecting Laufey's heir.
I love that that little smile from Loki after the snake story was Tom's genuine reaction given the improv of Ragnarok LOL
When he screamed, "Tell me!", he hooked me for life. Such an incredible scene in a silly superhero movie. Tom Hiddleston is just phenomenal!
The moment that spawned a million fangirls.
I loved that part. So much emotion and confusion and desperation
That was the scene which made that character.
@@Luubelaar good lord. I can image a whole army as we all dramatically face them on the battlefield. Their crazed eyes…
😂
THAT SCENE is the reason even if in the rest of the movie he tries to kill Thor and destroyed Jotunheim I could never truly see him as a villain. Tom.H manage to make him so human. You just hurt for him at that moment and most actions he does after you're like "this is all because of Odin shit parenting skills and that stupid planet of joke he lives in".
I am disappointed that you didn't talk about his imense self-hatred. He tried to commit a genocide of his own people because he has been taught that they are monsters. So he must be a monster as well. So on one hand he becomes the villain and on the other he still tries to prove himself to Odin. 'Look! I killed the Frost Giants! I am not one of them, I belong here, I deserve the throne.' And when that last desperate effort doesn't work, he lets go, tries to kill himself. I find Loki in the first Thor movie truly tragic.
Edit: And it does fit in with narcisism which is after all rooted in perceived inferiority.
Well this just made me cry a little bit more than I was already
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. I wonder if he thinks being adored and obeyed would give him the validation that his dad didn’t give him and that really he can’t even give himself.
@Facetious Universe wow, never thought of it
@Facetious Universe Can you explain this to the rest of the fandom please?
You will hate reading greek mythology about loki because holy goodness the one thing I feel sorry is about punishment of having dripping poison (something like that, been a minute since I read greek mythology) as punishment for 1,000 years I forgot what the punishment was from or for.
Someone once said that Loki's wheeze after being Hulk-smashed was his ego deflating.
Something I just noticed, Ragnorok confirms that the scene when Odin picks up Loki is right after he banished Hela, his eye was still... y’know... which is interesting since Odin then changes Loki’s appearance to what eventually becomes very similar to Hela’s, the long greasy black hair, slim and a little bony etc. And then he proceeds to keep Loki at a distance from then on, maybe because even though he misses Hela and “loves” Loki he sees their similarities and fears Loki for them
Holy crap, never realized this.
You forgot matching green magic it makes so much sense now why they have same coloured magic
Oh wow, never thought of that, but it makes so much sense!
There's an even sadder theory. Odin didn't change Loki's appearance to look Asgardian. Loki did. As a baby. Because he wanted his adoptive father to love him. He was trying to please Odin as a /baby/.
@@shawnsegebarth6707 That's really sad.
I'm surprised you didn't touch on the relationship he had with Frigga, it's one of the most heartbreaking parts of Dark World, because there was a genuine devastation to her death, proving that if he truly loved anybody more than his brother (which took multiple films to actually show that love) it was his mother. He's so guarded and you never truly know what he's thinking and feeling, but with his mother, you could always see the love he had for her even when he was trying to pretend he was indifferent. I think Frigga was always the family member who truly understood him and gave him the nurturing he needed, despite it not being the nurturing he wanted from Odin. Also, Get Help is one of the funniest moments in any Avengers/Thor film ever.
I agree completely. As therapists, they really should have touched on Loki's relationship with his mother.
It's clear she gave him healthy parenting and unconditional love.
Frigga was truly the only one who loved Loki for who he was KNOWING what he was and she didn't care. That's why ❤❤
@@KristySki Precisely!
He truly did love his mother
We see more of that in the Loki series as well, in episode 3 Loki and Sylvie have a conversation on the train and one of the things they discuss is Loki's relationship with his mother.
Loki is such an interesting character. Like, he’s a sort-of-villain for most of the movies, but yet, we can’t really help but root for him. He’s charismatic, charming, clever, resourceful, and funny. We hope that he will change for the better, and when he doesn’t, rather than give up on him, we root even harder for him to be better. I get where Thor was coming from all the times he defended and forgave Loki.
I think you’re right on the money. Even if he can do a lot of shit (and often for seemingly petty reasons) he does it with so much wit and charm you cannot outright hate him.
exactly, i still support him and kind of understand him, and the series is amazing because he gets to grow in it!! so much character growth it was beautiful
I think it's safe to say Tom Hiddleston does a fantastic job as Loki. Doing such jerkish things with such charm is not something that anyone could achieve...
@@andreca90 definitely, if he was played by anyone else i dont think he’d be as beloved as he is
I think anti villian is a good term for him.
With the Loki show doing so much for his character I kinda feel like we need a part 2
Yes, please!
I always found it interesting that Loki's turning point where he started to rethink his attitude was not his own defeat but when his actions ended with Frija's death.
How did Loki's actions result in Friga's death? He had nothing to do with the dark elves!
@@BadWolfRT Frigga had Malekith dead to rights with a blade to his neck. If the Dark Elf Berserker hadn't arrived, she would have killed him. The Berserker only showed up as quickly as he did because Loki pointed him in the right direction. Thor only arrived a moment too late to save his mother. If the Berserker had shown up later then Malekith would have been dead or Thor might have gotten them to retreat before she was killed.
Loki wasn't aligned with the Dark Elves but he pointed one in the right direction out of petty spite for being imprisoned.
@@rboss5919 I see! I completely forgot about that scene! Thanks for letting me know! You're right!
@@rboss5919I don't know why people think that. Loki didn't pointed the Dark Elf Berserker to Friggas chamber, but to the room where the big machine for the protection shield was. Loki is not responsible for Friggas death. He loved Frigga. Why would he send the big one to her? Wouldn't make any sense.
@@Stephanie-es7wv I think the point is exactly that he didn't mean to, but he ended up doing it - not on purpose -, by pointing the right direction.
That's what the original comment says "he's turning point was when he's actions caused Friga's death" (kinda, I'm not reading it again), he didn't mean it, but he knew it happened because of him
Parents don't tell children the truth not because they want to protect them, but because they want to protect themselves from having to deal with what the truth might bring out in their children.
A bit of both. I think it usually starts from a place of love but as time goes by becomes more selfish.
Preach
Oh yes! This is so true.
Imo this is VERY true for Odin and Loki. In the Marvel comics universe everyone knows what Loki is from the start and he turns out much worse than MCU Loki personality-wise. I think the all-seeing Odin knew that would happen and just wanted Loki to grow up with a feeling of belonging in the hope that he'd turn out better.
@@simmsquee Very astute. :)
Loki's magic and illusion are actually not from his genetics, they were taught to him by his mother, who gave him more attention to balance Odin.
@Weronika Walczyk
Yes!! Thank you. And thank you for Freeing Loki. Your noble devotion to a most worthy cause quite literally means worlds to me
@@lokiprinceofmischief wait what-
you are absolutly right
Yes, totally taught magic by mom! We see her do the illusion/projection to visit him in the cell Dark World and I thunk in End Game she tells Thor : "I was raised by witches"
Kinda, but his proclivity for magic comes from being a giant. Esp his ability to transform
Technically, Frigga taught him to shapeshift and make illusions, that power isn’t innate.
So that’s nurture.
When Thor and the gang went to confront Laufey, there was what appeared to be magic and illusions. An ice dagger literally appears in his hand. Which is Loki’s go to weapon.
I kinda feel bad for Loki, his just desperately wanted to be accepted and never was. Honestly a lot of villains could be redeemed with therapy
Fun fact. Amongst a hundred other improvised moments in Ragnarok, director Taika waititi said the story about Loki being a snake and stabbing Thor was ad libbed by Chris Hemsworth and Tom Hiddleston smirking was genuinely him smirking at Chris. They did a few different takes with a few different stories but the snake one was the one they liked the best
A lot of Ragnarok was ad libbed, which just makes the whole thing so much better.
That's awesome! I already love that moment because snakes get so little love so it is just lovely to hear that Thor loves them as much as I do, but that makes it so much better
I imagine Chris came up with it as a reference to the snakes in the Hercules myth (which are Hades' imps in the Disney movie).
They probably liked it so much, because it would be such a Loki thing to do.
@@Merlijn1994 Snakes give the best hugs
The Loki show is literally him getting therapy.
Involuntarily getting therapy, but yeah. XD
He’s literally learning the meaning of “self love” in that show 😂
Whereas Wandavision was Wanda seriously needing it. Since her inability to cope with everything that had happened to her caused her to enslave an entire town and use her magic to create a fantasy world based on sitcoms she'd watched as a kid, a fantasy where Vision was still alive, they had 2 kids together and lived in a suburban home. The show would have ended better if Wanda had allowed herself to be taken in after the wrongs she'd done to the townspeople.
@@SirReelist Let's face it, involuntarily is the only way he would ever get it.
@@dreadcthulhu5 This is true.
A part 2 to Loki therapy would be amazing because the Loki series comes full circle with it being the most humbling experience for him i think. Its a Loki with the mentality from endgame, seeing how his life played out, learning all his “choices” werent necessarily his own (tva decides, etc) and then turning the narcissism on its head with Silvy to ultimately deciding between his love, his purpose, and the fate of the timeline with He Who Remains. Such a good series!
Please do a part two!
Even better after s2.
10:56 I just want to mention that Laufey tells Thor “Your father is a murder and thief”. Also Loki was left in a temple, according to Odin if I remember correctly. Loki was the son of a king, of COURSE he would be put somewhere away from the threat. Laufey and the others must have thought that Odin killed their little prince. So yeah. I believed he was better off with his bio family (just look at What If)
well... according to the creators of the comics (source material and what the show is based on) Loki was abandoned as a baby because they thought he was too small and weak, soooo... being left by his bio family to die wouldn't exactly make him better off now would it?
Odin said Loki's birthright was to die. He knew Loki was a runt and would be considered unfit for anything Laufey would've expected of him, and more than likely Loki would've died as a frost giant.
What if's frost giant Loki wasn't a runt
@@GeekyNerdThao93 this^. Odin mentions that Loki was left abandoned, and was "small for a Giant's offspring" in Thor, and in Ragnarok the play even references that when the acted Odin mentions how Loki was a little baby all alone in a frozen wasteland. Laufey did not care for Loki, even not bothering to say anything about being his true father when Loki goes to Jotunheim alone to set the plan for them to invade.
@@WhiteythereaperLaufey didn't know that Loki was his son.
There's a really interesting moment in the scene where Hulk slams Loki around that no one ever picks up on or talks about. Right before Hulk grabs Loki, Loki snaps at him and yells, "I will not be bullied--" Not "I will not be beaten" or "I will not be bested," but "I will not be bullied." It's shades of that lonely, outcast kid inside who wasn't like the other Asgardian boys who were obsessed with brawn and fighting. The moment he yells that at Hulk, I always wonder if Hulk's physique - huge, muscled, brute strength - reminds Loki of all the men who dismissed him and other boys who beat him up and bullied him in Asgard.
...this hit me so much. I didn't noticed it at all
Yeah in the first Thor movie, we actually see thor’s buddies bully Loki and Thor let’s it happen. We talk about how much shitty of a bother Loki is but no one talks about how much of a shitty brother Thor is too.
This is a brilliant comment. I didn’t notice it, either. Thanks for bringing it up!
Yes agree, in a deleted scene from the first Thor movie, Loki and Thor are talking and Thor makes fun of Loki’s preference of using magic instead of brawling like him and Thor and the servant laugh at him, 1. Loki isn’t laughing he’s clearly used to it and he reacts by turning wine into snakes to scare the servant, and 2. Thor lets it happen, he lets this servant just laugh at his brother and disrespect him that tells me that this isn’t a one time thing-that this isn’t even something that happens every once in a while, this is a recurring thing that happens and it’s definitely another factor into Loki decent into a villain-he wants to be loved and respected, not hated, bullied, and disrespected, but he lashes out by saying things he doesn’t mean or doing mischievous sometimes downright hurtful things to get attention
@@lolawhiterabbit yeah and in the Thor movie Thor realizes he’s wronged Loki, or at least when the robot is attacking them he realizes Loki has it out for him personally, and he apologizes, he doesn’t know what he’s apologizing for though, and to me it never feels like a real apology if the person doesn’t even know why their saying sorry in the first place, if they don’t even know that then how can they correct their behavior and stop themself from doing exactly what made you made in the first place. Easy they can’t for real. Through Thor was trying it’s just Loki wasn’t meeting him halfway until the last battle of the ragnarok movie. Plus we do see in the Avengers movie Thor does stop the team from badmouthing and disrespecting Loki regardless of what he’s done, it’s shown us growth with Thor that at least he isn’t letting others outright disrespect Loki anymore, and we don’t (from my memory at least) see Asgard disrespect Loki again.
I do wish we got to actually see Asgard mourn Loki, like I do trust Thor not to lie about it, but it would’ve been good to actually see it.
The thing is - Frigga said “We didn’t tell you because we never wanted you to feel different,” - but Loki already always DID feel different. In the case of real life human kids too, they can usually pick up on things, they’re way smarter and more perceptive than adults often think. Loki IS different than Thor, but they should’ve let him know that that was OKAY.
Exactly
yes and also the fact that they acted like it would be such a bad thing if he was different
Yes. It’s okay to be different is such a better lesson.
I was diagnosed with neurodivergence very young (I was about 3 or 4). My parents didn't tell me until I was 16 because they didn't want me to feel different. I knew I was different anyway (hello, meds and therapy for no apparent reason), but I never had the words or explanation that would have helped adults understand me better. I'm 35 and still dealing with and unpacking my diagnoses and how they affect/ed me. Good stuff.
@@Kelzy same. it doesn't make you not feel different by hiding it, instead it just makes you think its your fault that you're somehow broken
The problem with using the scene from the first avengers movie is that actual marvel lore talks about how Loki's mind wasn't quite his own. He was just as controlled by the tesseract as Hawkeye.
It is why Loki's eye colour changes.
Loki is one of my favorite characters in the MCU. It would be awesome if Tom Hiddleston and Cinema Therapy did some sort of a collaboration video about Loki.
People violently underestimate the desire for stories without conflict. I could literally watch a full 2 hour movie of Thor and Loki just being together and reconnecting and being brotherly
Which is what The Dark World did and Ragnarok expanded. Undoubtedly the script for that movie was super weak, but the characters sort of grew in a sense, Thor wanted to be a good ruler, Loki (when saying TRUST MY RAGE) finally admit to caring about his family's pain.
I would die for a sitcom series where it's just Thor and Loki being chaotic siblings. Like:
Thor: "Hey can I have your number I want to text you"
Loki, scrolling through instagram: "Sorry I don't have a phone."
SAAAAAAME!!!
In fairness though, the only reason you want that is because they've had so much conflict before lol
Stories with conflict are great and all but there are so many relationships I wish went better (Vi and Jinx, Harry and Sirius, Loki and Thor) and it genuinely pains me that we probably won't see those happen outside of fanfiction
Here's something that always bugs me about the narrative around Loki, something that I think really needs to be addressed: the adoption narrative.
Loki was not adopted. He was kidnapped from his home by an enemy ruler with intentions of his own. Loki was not an adopted child. He was a prisoner of war, raised to believe he was a blood relation of a man who had no intention of truly accepting him as an equal, and taught to hate his own people.
And that needs to be addressed.
Well the thing is, the frost giants don't exactly present themselves as anything you'd want to be; it's implied Loki was abandoned for being too small. And Frigga says she and Odin lied to him so he wouldn't feel different. They thought they were doing the loving thing. And Loki clearly most identifies with being Asgardian and being their son; even when he's angry with them, it's from a place of love. I do think Odin absolutely sees Loki as his son, he just feels Thor is more fit to rule. And unfortunately Loki and Odin never got a moment to sort these things out, and for Loki it all gets jumbled together.
@@theaterpup3466 1) We only ever see the Frost Giants from an Asgardian perspective, who knows how much of that is actually accurate.
2) Odin says this, but he found Loki alone AFTER he had attacked and destroyed Loki's home. It's entirely possible Loki was being looked after, only to have his guardians killed.
3) So fucking what? Loki was different. A more loving thing to do would have been to acknowledge that difference, but actively and consistently demonstrate that the difference did not affect how they saw him and felt about him.
4) of course Loki identifies as an Asgardian, of course he still loves his parents. You don't stop loving people just because they've abused you. That's part of why abusers are so hard to leave!
5) I don't hold Frigga accountable for Odin's actions. If Odin told her he rescued this child who needs a good home, it's completely understandable that she would believe him and welcome that child in: which is exactly what she did. But her genuine love and acceptance of Loki does not change that fact that Odin kidnapped him during a war.
As someone who lives in Australia, the circumstances around Loki's "adoption" sound far too much like what happened to the Stolen Generation for me to ignore.
@@lauradavison8068 Well we do actually see the frost giants, we don't just hear about them. They don't come across as peaceful people or victims. It's also possible Odin felt guilty after the battle and decided the baby became his responsibility in some weird warrior code sort of way. I get the potential parallels with the stolen generation, but from what I understand those children were treated pretty badly all around -- little education, trained to be servants, vulnerable to abuse. But Loki has clearly led a very privileged life. His issues with Thor are no different than the issues blood brothers might have. Yes they lied to him, and that was a huge mistake, but they did treat him as an equal.
Truth
@@lauradavison8068 mmm it's kind of gross to compare Loki's situation to the Stolen Generation. Those kids were deliberately hunted down and removed from their families to force the "black" out of them and left in abusive situations with no rights. Loki was found, accidentally, after a war and had no family left (Odin knew his father), and was raised in a fairly privileged life. He wasn't abused, but their were some unfortunate family dynamics. Odin, generally, doesn't know how to parent and neglected emotional growth. Unintentional neglect isn't the same as what the Stolen Generation went through
Loki always kind of felt personal to me because I partially sympathize with him to some extent. I had a step sister who I lived with along with my parents and grandparents(my father’s side). My parents were mostly out for work for the most of the time so I didn’t get to spend much time with them back then, which left me with my step sister and my grandparents. They always preferred her over me because she didn’t live with her mother or something like that, and I barely even have any memories of spending time with my grandparents. They would buy department store clothes and snacks for her but never for me. Add that with the fact that my grandparents had never-ending conflict with my mother while my dad never stood up for it, I hated my father’s side of the family with a burning passion. Not only for how they treated me, but how they treated my mother. And seeing Loki after a few years after my childhood felt pretty personal. I don’t know how people mostly feel about his character, but having experienced something similar to him, I can see why he does what he does. Being treated differently from your siblings for reasons beyond your control is not just plain jealousy. It really takes a toll on you and fills you with the pressure that you have to be better; to prove your worth. That’s how I felt, at least. With that said, I’ve never thought that I wanted to rule the world or commit mass genocide, but I still can see where Loki’s coming from. I’m glad he at least got to reconnect with his brother in the end, ‘cause I sure as hell haven’t connected with my sister ever since.
Would love an updated version with the two seasons of the show, cause the character development in those is absolutely phenomenal!!
As an adopted child, Tom Hiddleston nailed the emotion of "why didn't you tell me?"
It's confusion, anger, hurt, resentment, still loving them but wondering how you would have been different, wanting to know more truth, all mixed together. It's a devastating revelation
How old was you when your patents tell you?
@@pfinchen7194 I was 13 when I found out. They didn't plan on telling me until I was 18, but I stumbled on some stuff that revealed it.
@@kayarnold3151 yeah, classic way of knowing things *sign* I found out I had a brother when I was 9 or 10 and my parents accidently spilled it. That was a horrible time.
I'm so sorry this happened! I was adopted at birth as was my youngest brother (we are both from other families). Our parents told us from the beginning even before we fully understood the meaning. They didn't agree that keeping it a secret would be good for us and I will forever be greatful of this!
@@amandalungren you have good parents. Worlds better then Odin is.
Chris Hemsworth's muffled cry of "Noooo!" in Infinity War always chokes me up. Loki's villainy has always come from a place of loneliness, distrust, and deep, deep insecurity. His feelings of persecution have taught him it's better to be feared, better to be manipulative and adversarial because love, he believes, is a lie that will only hurt you. And despite all that, even after all the years of fighting and deception, Thor's love for his brother is heartbreakingly genuine.
Don’t read the comics if you don’t want to feel more heart break. Thor’s love for Loki in the comics is endless. Read, literally bringing his brother who died back to life as a kid so he’d have a second chance at being good and telling everyone who disagreed to fuck off. Also he has limitless faith that his brother is good at heart
@@atiqahdiyana5665 Is that the Loki who grows up to run for President?
That's why before battling in New York he tears up after stabbing Thor and said: Sentiment! He craves love, but can't trust it because he knows it not (in spite his entire family, loving him regardless of his flaws, flaws that they sort of imposed upon him) and when he's shown it then sees it as weakness, but still touches him enough to cry. He wants a love he'll never understand because he's never known it and that's why he fell for the only love he's known to trust: himself.
I would love to point out the fact that Loki was taken from a temple (Odin says this himself), those places are usually the most protected in times of war. Those who can’t fight usually hide in temples and places like that because they are easily defendable. So the idea that Loki was “cast out” for being small or “left to die” because he was on a cold pedestal is hard to believe. A) they’re a frost giant and they grow a bunch, B) they’re the son of the King, even if they have a bunch of kids they wouldn’t have just left Loki to die, either it would be a quick death or they would be raised just not to be a ruler. C) they’re frost giants everything is cold, and a baby on a pedestal is usually a GREAT way for people to understand “hey I’m coming back to get this”.
I really hate the narrative of “Odin saved them”. Odin didn’t save them, he kidnapped Loki and made him an unknowing prisoner of war.
someone tell me why Loki's death hit me harder than any other marvel death😭😭
Because he's the most relateable and best thought out character. And because we thought, Tom Hiddleston was gone from the MCU, which would have been a tragedy.
I can only tell you why it hurt me more than any other death - it's because I've been rooting for him to get his redemption and fix his relationship with Thor, and just when he started going that way, he was killed off 😢
Nothing will ever make me tear up like the scene at the end of Ragnarok when Thor says "if you were really here I might even hug you" and Loki catches the ball Thor throws at him and is finally actually there for Thor. It reminds me of Spiderman calling Tony Stark out for just sending the Iron Man suit, but then Tony steps out of it.
Ikr?!?
opposite energies lolol the iron man one terrifed ~me~ and i wasnt the one in trouble lmao
I've been feeling lately Marvel Phase II is worth a re-watch. Details are starting to blur, but you need to know the details.
Well now, that's a great parallel! It always takes me aback when Tony steps out of the suit...it's like boy, you've overstep and good intentions won't fix death...
"That little grin"😂🤭 FUN FACT : it was actually because to hiddleston couldn't keep a straight face as the story chris is telling was COMPLETELY IMPROV!! and nobody knew he was gonna say it and so tom had a hard time containing his laughter
Every diehard fan must've heard that story like a hundred times😂😂
And yet, it was news to me. Thank you for telling it, anyway.
I'm not going to lie, I had a feeling XD
That story was improvised!!! Wow Chris & Tom , they are brilliant.
Yep!
From what I understand, I heard much of ragnarock was improv.
Your mention of narcisists expressing that they feel like it's all over after their diagnosis is similar to how I felt realizing I was a low-empathy autistic. Empathy is seen as such a vital thing to connect with others, and realizing that I cannot and will not ever feel it towards others was quite the devastating discovery.
I've since come to terms with it and accept that I still love my friends and feel sympathy when bad things happen, but realizing it was not a happy time in my life...
"Nobody wants to watch a movie of Thor and Loki just getting along and being bros..." THAT IS THE ONLY THING I WANT NOW
The thing about Loki stabbing Thor when they were 8 though, it just makes me think of normal siblings roughhousing and hitting each other. Granted, stabbing your sibling is, uh, a liiiittle harsher than slapping their arm BUT when you take into account that they're both immortal it makes sense imo? Kid Loki probably knew Thor was going to be just fine after getting stabbed bc they're both gods and it would take a LOT more than a simple stabbing to seriously hurt one of them.
That story was actually COMPLETELY IMPROV by Chris and the reason tom was smiling in that scene was because no one knew that story before and tom couldn't hold his laughter 🤭
Thats also the reason he said "i like snakes" because Chris Hemsworth likes snakes and he just made that story ON THE SPOT😂😂😂
This is how a variant is born.
@@doesntmatter340 And it makes some ironic sense because of The World Serpent and Thor in Norse Myth
they aren't "immortal", they can die, they just have their middle ages be tens of thousands of years
Not gonna lie... Tom Hiddleston's performance as Loki and the scene where his true heritage is revealed to him is what actually got me sucked into the MCU.
When my friend forced me (yes, forced 😅) to watch this movie with her years ago, I couldn't take my eyes off Hiddleston. He was just so captivating.
@@hawkins347 Understandable^^
My friends and I literally call the Thor movies Loki 1 and Loki 2 cause he's the only reason we acknowledge their existence
@@Shalalacls I don't know. I actually like them. But Loki definitely is the biggest reason why, so I guess that's fair 😄
SAME. and to think his scene partner was THE Anthony Hopkins and Tom still managed to steal the show.
On nature vs. nurture, I 100% lean both. Loki was a highly intelligent child with a restless natural curiosity that drove him to constantly get into shit that he shouldn't. His mother saw that and decided that she'd better give that child some direction and give his brain something to chew on otherwise he'd be impossible, so she taught him magic. In a way it worked, he became very passionate about it and it really did give him a mental stimulation he desperately needed buuuut he's also being raised by a raging narcissist who pitted him against his brother in a scapegoat vs. golden child dynamic. So when he did what kids do with an exciting new hobby, especially kids with a busy mind like his, and used those magic skills to get into trouble, his father came down way too hard on him, and treated him like he wasn't worthy of being his son. His natural temperament is not one to just become a meek follower in the face of that. He rebelled, and they fell into a vicious cycle that in the end lead him to develop narcissistic tendancies of his own in order to survive.
Sorry I know there's a lot of interpretation here rather than direct information, but that's very much how I see Loki.
It would be so cool to see a video dedicated to the Loki from the TV show just because he has a completely different journey to the Loki of the main MCU timeline. Great video!
Keep in mind, in Avengers it's entirely likely that the mind stone, the staff, was altering Loki's behavior. As *soon* as he's away from it in both timelines his behavior changes, he goes back to being a troublemaker, more or less, and not a tyrant or murderer.
Yeah! And I guess they even made this canon, I remembering them mentioning it somewhere, but can't remember where. The mind stone enhanced Loki's negative side to this extent.
@@AnaLugia256 it was on the Marvel page for MCU Loki. They changed his description from villain, or something like that, to influenced by the mind stone.
yes, still so many people don't know this even though it was confirmed. this, as well as a deleted scene from thor showing that loki was never really after the asgardian throne truly changes things
@@Scarlett-li5yz Oh, was it a deleted scene? I could swear I saw it in the movie! But maybe it's my mind playing tricks on me 😂
@@AnaLugia256 Well it is also mentioned in one of the movies, where Thor is telling Loki to stop this mad quest to rule Earth, and Loki says to Thor "I never wanted to be a king. I just wanted to be your equal." I've probably left out lines they said in between but that's the general idea of their conversation. It's heartbreaking.
I love that the snake story was totally improvised by Hemsworth and Hiddleston was genuinely smiling
I heard it was to be a flashback scene but that improv was so good they used it instead.
2:42- Timestamp
Which movie is this?
@@blessedcocoa5729 Thor Ragnarok
@@Thelmageddon thank you
13:19
I always head cannoned that Thanos delivered this speech to Loki on sanctuary and he’s just repeating it while under the subtle influence of the scepter.
I like that now that What If…? Is out, we know his mischievous and villainous nature was very much due to him being adopted by Odin
You guys talk about how if Loki had found out he was adopted sooner he would have been more well-adjusted and this is LITERALLY the case with Sylvie in the show - she knew all along and so is not obsessed with it. It was the TVA that messed up her life.
she even wishes to save Asgard (playing with the valkyries)
That's probably the reason why she was a variant that the TVA wanted to prune. Because she knew she was adopted and was content about it. Thus she didn't develop a complex about wanting the throne and instead wanted to be one of the Valkyries. So she doesn't go down the path that leads to the Avengers forming, so that timeline had to be scrubbed.
Ultimately though Sylvie still made the exact same mistake Loki did. She refused to listen to the people around her who cared about her because she couldn't let go of what happened to her.
@@darkslayer709 you worded that perfectly!
Sorry, I don't want to be pedantic, but I am going to be for a moment. Loki's powers and skills as a god of mischief are heavily implied to be a result of his frost giant heritage in this video and they were not. Other frost giants are rarely depicted as magic users, they are a haggard, war-rapt society, with no room for mischief. Loki canonically was taught magic by Frigga, who is not of noble blood and was raised by a coven of witches. If anything, the bulk of his identity is dependent on his adoptive mother, which swings the nature vs. nurture debate hard into nurture here. You may have solid footing if claiming his temper is a result of genetics though.
Came here to say this - and this isn't like, comic lore pedantry or anything. This is the text, as presented to us, in the films. It's a shame that they made the error so early on, because it put me off wanting to watch it.
THANK YOU ! ! ! ! ! Thank you so much, I wanted to write exactly the same!
Very well said!
Nah, the temper is from odin. I always thought that despite loki being closer to his mother and having her fighting style, personality wise he was more like odin. And same with thor, he looks like odin, he fights more like odin, but his character is more like frigga
Thank you for this it was bothering me lol I don’t remember Frigga being raised by a coven of witches tho, just that she was Vanir and Odin was Aesir. Guess I gotta rewatch
Would love to see you guys revisit this since the end of loki S2. ❤
please do a part 2 of this that deals with the events of the Loki series, cuz this character has literally received the best arc in the MCU
Now I'm wondering if he was born the God of Mischief or if he got that title after stabbing multiple people lol
Imagine stabbing a bunch of people and your parents just going.
"Oh, they're just mischievous."
🤣🤣🤣
@@closetotaku3239 "ah children being children they'll get out from that phase when they are older"
@@milkyeon9271 until they're next phase that is. Probably guns next
he pulled a whole bunch of pranks
He was given the title at the same time Thor received his
I always loved(hated?) the, "You were an innocent child." scene. The way that Loki immediately shuts it down shows just how well he knew lies and Odin. Odin had probably killed many baby jottun in battle when destroying villages. Loki new it wasn't for love, but it was a purpose.
And Tom Hiddleston is such a pro. He plays all of that emotion beautifully.
Oh… that’s sad.
Glorious purpose…
Well Loki should know when someone lies. He is god of mischief after all
On the alternative, we don't actually know the truth of that war besides Odin's narration at the start of Thor. He states that the Frost Giants invaded Midgard (Earth) & the other realms in an attempt to sieze power, likely due to remembering Hela & Odin's brutal subjugation of the Nine Realms before her exile, and thus disagreeing to Asgardian rule. When the Jotuns were forced to retreat back to their home world, Odin followed to end the War. After Laufey slashed out his one eye, Odin managed to corner him and best him, but spared his life to propose an end to the war, a truce which would allow the remaining Jotuns to live so long as they never attack the realms again. A condition of the truce was that the Jotun Casket that could produce vast amounts of Ice and basically terraform and build areas for the Jotuns to live would be taken from them never to be used as a weapon again.
This is the best time to cover Loki (the TV show) after season 2 has ended, Loki has pretty good charater development throughout the show from being a villain to (spoiler alert) sacrificing his desires to be the protector of the multiverse and giving his loved ones a chance to live their lives with free will, something the former Loki would never do for anyone.
Whoever wrote the subtitles for this video is the real MVP, I appreciate you.
"No one would want to watch a movie where Loki and Thor are just bros." May I introduce you to Fanfiction
May I introduce you to Ragnarok!
To be fair, most fanfiction is not exactly about them being "bros"...
@@Shalalacls idk I feel like I find for bro stuff but I guess it depends on the site one would use
@@Shalalacls Yeah... They can be moreee than just "bros" something.
“It’s the cruel, elaborate trick conjured by the weak to inspire fear.”
”A desperate play for control.”
The man who tries to stand above everybody else is the man who deep down feels as if he’s beneath everyone else.
Explains every single person on the internet
@@oimate6357 Loki is the original troll
My absolute favorite line in the series so far. Totally broke my heart
I can confirm that
@Oi Mate
OI MATE! - Yer right on point
A second part to Loki please, his character has shown hope for growth, this time from the series 😊
Something I've kind of thought about Loki is that maybe, for a long while, he was thinking.
"Well, I can just do whatever I want. Clearly, father doesn't actually need me because Thor is perfect. He's never going to care."
I think Loki is slightly desperate to get Odin to actually notice him, and sometimes doing good isn't attention grabbing. So I think anything malicious is just wanting to be loved and heard, or that's at least the root of it.
“There’s no mischief in Odin’s family”
Ummmm….Loki learned all his magic from Frigga XD
But was Frigga mischievous? Or her magic mischievous?
@@joannafullofjoy Just compare Frigga to the other Asgardians - she's clearly the main example of cunning; Thor even picks some of that up (he certainly didn't get it from Odin). Mischief and cunning often go hand in hand; heck, that's where we get comedy from. The problem is when people stop having fun, and you start hurting people - that's no longer mischief. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Frigga was just as mischievous in her youth - but you can't really be mischievous from a position of power, that's just... bullying. So she didn't get to be mischievous much as the Queen of Asgard.
Now, granted, turning into a snake and stabbing your brother would be rather bad. But... they were kids, and... gods. Thor doesn't even feel particularly badly about it - maybe just a bit annoyed (because he likes snakes). Converted to human-scales, stabbing someone after turning into a snake would be like throwing a ball at someone to test their alertness :D
@@joannafullofjoy Now and then in scenes she gets a mischievous smile. It's playful, but not malicious.
Hell she was a queen she stole a sword from a guard instead of just asking for it kinda makes me think she showed him how to do pranks
@@carloshotrod1302 When did she do that?
"There are always men like you," always makes me tear up because you KNOW what he's referencing, and you KNOW he's old enough to have lived through it and probably lost everything and everyone he loved because of it, and just the context of that is probably the most gut wrenching and saddest line in the entire MCU.
That one line gives me goosebumps. Every. Damn. Time.
Especially that Cap is the one who comes in & shields him. It is 2 men cut from the same time & the same cloth.
And to your point the "good German" old man likely isn't stupid, he knows what's going to happen to him
when he stands up to Loki yet does it anyway. There's a science fiction character who when she's asked
about the destruction of her world and who she lost she replies "Everyone". That is something survivors
of real world massacres and those bad, dark days often say.
Glad to see someone who knows their history and respects it. JT Hughes
@@AmaniMaharet 😭😭😭😭
I thought that the line was a little bit sensationalist and cliché. I was like "Wow, another tyrant wannabe trying to do tyran-ish things in Germany, I bet that Hollywood is going to use this to insert a dramatic sensationalist line about WWII and Hitler". Aaaaaaand they did 😂
I love how at 17:00 minutes Nat’s like *dramatic hair flip* and then Loki’s like *dramatic hair flip*.
joining into the chorus of: would love to see y'all revisit Loki's character as he developed through the Disney+ series. (And also his relationship with Mobius definitely deserves a little spotlight/insight from you, too! I loved seeing an MCU character that was so unerringly patient and kind, and how it was someone entirely removed from Loki's family that could help him so much.)
Loki show spoiler!
When they were talking about Loki learning of being adopted, it made me think of Sylvie. She probably was never going to be a villain and that's why she became a variant. Because her family was honest with her.
That is such a good point omg :0
Yes 😌
she might've also been a variant due to being born a goddess rather than a god, which is mainly what's implied
@@sisi7304 Why would they not take her at birth then if that was the case? 🤔
@@sisi7304 well loki is genderfluid so it shouldn't have messed it up enough to cause a nexus event
“No one wants to see a movie of Thor and Loki being bros.”
Nah, everyone wants that.
We got not ONE but TWO such movies. Audiences didn't respond to Dark World but it started that journey and Ragnorak kind of stole the GotG vibe but continued that dynamic and audiences LOVED it.
Sadly, the journey doesn't really pay itself off as Loki fails (yet again) in his redemption arc. A payoff that Thor deserves for his faith in Loki. And a shame for Loki because lost in all his failures is his greatness... he may not be Thor but he's physically abused by the Hulk and Thor both but can take it and certainly was in no danger against Captain America (no shame in that showing). He may not be as subtle as Black Widow but he's right up there. He may not be in Doctor Strange's class (Or Wanda's) but he's right up there.
Thor telling him that he could be so much more than "the God of Mischief" is a profound endorsement.
Richard E. Grant gives us a taste of that and in ONE episode and in ONE moment as Classic (Awakened?) Loki, the audience gets the payoff.
All that prior work in the MCU made that.
@@PrometheanConsulting the What If episode was probably not released when you commented, but I also enjoyed the What If episode where Thor was an only son, and the two were best of pals :)
Please, we need more of this
the reason i love the scene with that old man is because they manage encapsulate a man's entire life in just a few good seconds without ever showing him again
I think the what if episode where they weren’t brothers is very interesting because it shows that if they were not raised together constantly being compared, they would be good friends
The events in the Loki series is literally exposure therapy for him, providing him with a sense of purpose that is constructive and relies on his intelligence and magic skills (which he was always mocked for in Asgard that has more respect for brute force). For the first time he meets a person (Mobius) whose intelligence he actually admires (other than his own) which he actually admits out loud! In episode 4 he's reliving a memory again and again (in time loop jail) that forces him to admit flat out (ON HIS KNEES!) that he's a narcisist and craves attention, because his biggest fear is being alone, only for Sif to say that he always will be. But for the first time in his life he actually has a true friendship based on mutual respect. And then Mobius is killed in front of him....
That was truly heartbreaking!!!
He did look genuinely devastated when Mobius was pruned.
It also helped seeing all the other Lokis and the sorry spectacle they offered in the shelter. You could see his second hand embarrassment ^^;
@@nalublackwater9729 Well okay, but you have to admit Alligator Loki is the superior Loki.
@@kirstencorby8465 True, true!
Also when the Loki series is done…it would be fun for you to break down that version of Loki since that is not the Loki we see in the original series.
Seems likely.
@@CinemaTherapyShow since 4 episodes of the TV show are out already, and they are doing exactly what you've suggested for Loki as a therapy, it really would be so interesting to see what you say about the TV version of Loki :)
@@alexandrashvetsova9340 I do really like this version of Loki so far. I haven’t seen Loki episode four yet because I’m out working. However a lot of people are saying “oh we never seen this side of Loki…” or “oh I never believed that this side of Loki exist.” Which I agree we haven’t seen this side of Loki before but as a lover of Loki and believing what Tom Hiddleston said that Loki is misunderstood. I did believe that this side of Loki existed. So yeah I’m just enjoying after years of telling people that Loki is misunderstood the Loki series is showing us a side of Loki I knew somewhat existed.
Not that it still doesn’t make me sad when these emotional sense happened they do. I just like the fact that this shows proves something I’ve been saying in years and people just laughed and brushed me off.
@@skyler3785 I tell you I was very surprised to realise how many people out there couldn't understand where "this Loki" came from. Like...have you been watching the movies at all?? It was all there, all his "scared little boy" actions, his vulnerability and all. So, I totally agree with you here =)
@@alexandrashvetsova9340 oh no these people exist. I literally had an disagreement with someone in my class in high school before infinity war came out because I said loki was misunderstood. And this person literally thought Loki was evil. My defense even Tom Hiddleston states that he is misunderstood.
Am I excusing his actions no they were bad. What I’m saying is Loki Isn’t evil because of his action. He just doesn’t make the best choices. Heck even in the new series Loki is still bordering on whether or not he makes good or bad actions. But this series puts him in the more grey area then making him the hero or the villain.
Y’all should definitely revisit this since the Loki series just ended. He’s evolved so much.
I wanna say 2 things about 6:23 - Loki’s abduction (not adoption).
1) From the moment they met, Odin saw Laufeyson as a bargaining chip. This wasn’t a child to be cared for, this was the enemy’s offspring to be used as a token to turn the tide. But Loki? Little baby Loki looked up and saw someone he immediately bonded with… and subconsciously changed himself on the outside to resemble this person who was holding him. From infancy, Loki only wanted acceptance.
2) The fact that Loki was found in a temple almost guarantees that he wasn’t abandoned or left to die. A temple is a sacred or religious place. He was almost certainly brought to the temple and left there to be safe. His mother almost certainly hid him in a place she thought wouldn’t be attacked, and was killed after she left. Laufey wouldn’t have known where his son was hidden, so he would have assumed he lost both wife and son, when in reality, his son had been captured by the enemy.
1. Unless I'm remembering wrong that wasn't the plan for Loki at all, Odin's plan was to raise Loki as his son then place Loki as King of the Frost Giants and then that would unite Asguard & The Frost Giants but he threw out these plans as he grew to see Loki as his actual Son
2. We never see another Narrative other then Loki being abandoned so until something throws doubt into then Loki was abandon(if the creators wanted us to think Loki wasn't abandoned then they would have done something to imply it)
I could be wrong, but I heard from comics or another source (need to go find it) that Loki’s birth mom was human, raped and held captive by Laufey, and when Laufey saw his sin was small, he threw both Loki and his birth mom out. She was dying from blood loss from the birth and she placed Loki in the temple as a last attempt to save him. She died shortly after.
His magic skillset didn't come from his nature, it was his Asgardian mother that taught and nurtured him
Thank you! This comes up like evrry other movie I feel like. Lokis pretty proud of the fact that his mom taught him magic.
Yeah, Freya was skilled. ETA I goofed, it was Frigga.
@@M11969 wasn't her name Frigga?
@@rahbeeuh yes, i believe so, freya is a different godess
@@gufosufo337 okay 👍🏽
"Nobody wants to watch a movie of just Thor and Loki getting along and being bros." YES. ME. I DO. PLEASE. I AM BEGGING
Intergalactic road trip might make a better TV series than a movie IMO, but I'm still down.
11:14 I love how "What If" actually explored what happens between Thor and Loki if loki wasnt adopted, and he was a pretty chill dude (pun completely intended)
There is the line in Thor 1 where Loki says "I never wanted the throne, I only ever wanted to be your equal" and I think that gets overlooked all the time. The throne is a symbol, of love and acceptance from Odin and being considered "as worthy" as Thor. When he has the throne, he's not a dictator or uses his power for evil, he just kind of...retires? And tries to heal through theatre, and tries to tell himself through the theatre that he really was adored and always loved as an equal "despite" what he was. Because it's not only about discovering he was adopted or an outsider or that his parents lied, it's also that the Asgardians were raised to see the frost giants as monsters. "I am the monster that parents tell their children about at night." When his father rejects him at the end of Thor 1, he thinks then, well fine, I really am inherently the unloveable monster, that is all I will be and that is why Odin will never accept me or see me the way he sees Thor. So his parents not telling him about his adoption sends the message (unintentionally but still) that what he really is, is something shameful, that it was something so horrible he needed to be "protected" from it. Which...yikes.
_"Nobody wants to watch a movie of Thor and Loki just getting along and being bros."_
Sir, Thor: Ragnarok would like to have a few words with you.😋
If i were to be truly honest, i would love that movie. Why? Because it would be important to loki's character. He was so serious, or supposed to be serious, in the movies prior to ragnarok that seeing them acting brotherly was a joy to watch. And having that relationship continue on in the movies afterwards was wonderful.
I kind of liken it to the relationship i have with my sister. When we were younger, we were basically strangers because of our ages and interests, but once we both matured, we've grown very close. The journey was a bit rocky, but i wouldn't give up where we are now
Loki didn't know magic by nature because he's a frost giant. His adoptive mother taught him because he showed more interest in it than Thor. So his Skills come from nurture not nature.
I suspect he had some innate magical ability. Same with Dr. Strange.
@@kaarenbock8361 Sure, but all Asgardians had it as well so a little less relevant.
I was thinking the same thing, I was sure he was taught all his tricks by his mother (adoptive)
Remember when baby Loki holds Odin's fingure he turns into an asgardian. I think he always had magic. His mother just taught him how to use it
Loki's character baisically asks: "Can bad people, people who truly do have mental problems which cause them an enjyonment over others' sufferings, turn good? Or are they destined to never change?
I would really love an updated Loki video based on the TV series, because I feel he definitely wasn't a villain by the end.
my sister is adopted and my parents were really good and smart about dealing with it. What my parents did is that every year on the day my sister originally came home after being adopted is her adoption anniversary and we always celebrated. When we were little we would go to Build a Bear and each of us would get a bear. So my sister always knew she was adopted and it was associated with good things because ever year we celebrate her coming into our life nearly 21 years ago now. We would also look at the scrapbook my mom made of my parents going to Russia to actually go get my sister and my parents always talk about how happy they were that were going to finally have a child that they could call their own. My parents made sure they let my sister know that she is loved and that being adopted doesn't change anything. I am my parents only biological child and I was basically an accident. I was born like 3 years after they got my sister and so I grew up knowing my sister is adopted but that doesn't change the fact that I have a sister that bothers me a lot but she is still my sister.
So sweet!
That's so great, and I think that's part of the problem - when you hide the truth the protect someone, the implication is that the truth is bad. Being a frost giant and/or adopted is bad, because its this shameful secret.
But being adopted isn't bad at all, there shouldn't be any shame! I'm so glad for you and your sister that your parents found such a lovely way to address it!
"Associated with good things" that's amazing parenting T__T
My older sister is also adopted, and my parents were always open about that. I don´t even remember them telling me, it was always just understood as a fact, and we moved on. She´s six years older than me, so we didn´t get along well as kids or teens, but as adults I love her more than anything and we are very close. I can imagine, knowing her, that if my parents had hidden that from her until later in life, it would have gone about as well as it did in the first thor movie. I might have lost my sister.
That's amazing and beautiful ♥♥♥♥♥
“Needs individual therapy to challenge his perceptions” aka ALL of Episode 1 of Loki with Mobius.
I'd love it if you guys could do another one about Loki from the series "Loki"!
You need to do another Loki episode now that Loki S2 is almost over.
The man has been through it, and has changed a great deal. Interesting to get your take on how natural the changes seem given the circumstances, and whether you think the character has made real change, or if he's doomed to backslide.
In the fan fiction world, Odin's parenting skills are tagged as "Odin's A+ parenting." We are not impressed with Odin.
Especially the 'Oh, my son has discovered he's adopted' *faints*
Indeed
Frigga's parenting was not much better tbh
1. She was Odin's enabler (though it's difficult to tell how much power she had in the relationship all things considering)
2. "My son went through traumatic experience - let's put him on throne. What could possibly go wrong?"
@@angelikaskoroszyn8495 But...but...what could possibly go wrong!? Lol
@@angelikaskoroszyn8495 I believe there was a tag called Frigga's B+ parenting.
I never really thought of Loki as a bad guy. He’s just really broken
Yes, he is broken and a victim in some ways. But aren't we all? That doesn't absolve him of the evil he's done.
@@kirstencorby8465 I think that's why he's such a popular villain. Who doesn't see themselves at least a little bit in him?
For 99% of his screentime, Loki is just a lovable scamp, and then for one scene in avengers he comes and just rips someone's eyeball out of their head while smiling.
No, he just copies the eye ball with that machine.
The people who talk about Loki as a villain or someone evil don’t understand him at all. He is an outsider even in his own home, has always been the less liked child (because he was from Jotunheim) and was always dismissed even though he was smarter and more mature than his brother because he relied more on strategy than brute strength like the other Asgardians. His story reminds me of Matilda, the book (who also has a movie) by Roald Dahl, where Matilda despite being smarter than her brother is treated badly by her own family because she doesn’t fit in. The difference is that Matilda got revenge on the people she disliked and is still viewed as an heroine, someone to admire, while Loki does basically the same (maybe just a little bit more violently) and is viewed as a monster. In the first Thor movie Loki is just trying to get his father’s attention, and when he finds out he was adopted he is destroyed by pain. All he ever wanted was to be appreciated, but people couldn’t see past the differences between them and kept him away. He was also literally forced to side with the Chitauri, you can notice his eyes are blue like the people who were hypnotised by the sceptre. His mother was the only one who ever treated him fairly, and she was murdered. In the end, he even redeems himself and personally I think that’s what gave me the proof I was waiting for to confirm my theory. Loki was never the bad guy. Circumstances, rage and pain made him do what he did, but he never wanted to actually hurt people because deep down even if he tried to hide it he cared. I always loved him because unlike some other people, I could see him. I could see behind the cold evil facade he put up, and all I ever saw was a little child, scared and lonely, who just wanted to make his parents proud. I can relate a lot to him and I really hate it when he’s downplayed as “the villain-y trickster god who betrays everyone”. He doesn’t trust people because they never trusted him. He’s more of an anti hero in my opinion, definitely not a villain.
I mean he kills people. Other people with similar or worse circumstances and or childhood trauma don’t murder people or even steal. He’s a villain because he has almost no restraint and is willing to go and has gone too far.
@@VonJay He's got a smaller kill count than all of the Avengers and that's while coasting on an identity break and then having to work for Thanos. Killing means nothing in the mcu, you can't find a single person that hasn't done it. 😂
@@chaoticneutralsheep1. How do you calculate his personal kill count? 2. The avengers were killing innocent people?
@@VonJay 1. Well that's reasonable enough to calculate if we start at the beginning of the mcu. He's only gone on the spree in the last few years after finding out he was a Frost Giant. He tried to wipe out Jotunheim when he was king of Asgard and he was at war with the planet. Thor put a stop to it by destroying the bridge but Thor killed over 180 frost giants after he was called a princess a few days before so he's got a higher count. Official kill count during the Avengers was confirmed to be 74 and he wasn't even the one directly doing it because it was mainly chitauri working for Thanos doing the real damage.
2. Tony Stark is an arms dealer and the merchant death, he killed thousands, profiting off war. Natasha was an assassin for nearly the entirety of her life, there's blood on her ledger. Clint became Ronin and killed hundreds and they both worked for Shield when it was secretly Hydra and probably killed innocents under that basis. Hulk has destroyed multiple cities and resorts to killing nearly all the time and became a gladiator on Sakaar. Steve Rogers had the most shining reputation, obviously he was solider and would have killed too but no one truly innocent. Until he went back in time and worked for Hydra with Peggy and letting historical calamities happen and being okay with that knowledge.
@@chaoticneutralsheep 2. Earth wasn’t attacking Asgard which required Loki to invade earth to conquer it. He did that because he simply could and has killed for other reasons unrelated to his own safety. All the heroes fought to protect something. Loki didn’t. There was no moral angle to murdering someone else. He wasn’t in danger, he wasn’t fighting for a government. It was straight up murder.