Someone once pointed out that Leia is Anakin's daughter: Passion, fire, a certain degree of ruthlessness and Luke is Padme's son: love, compassion and faith in Anakin.
Which is even sadder since Luke says he has no memory of his mother while Leia has vague memories of her, despite the fact they were both born a few seconds apart.
This whole movie just reminds me of the saying "The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth". the jedi council were always so critical of Anakin and ended up causing their own demise.
@@JustSomePerson8 haha, yes, everyone says Yoda is so wise but his advice includes several full hours of restating the obvious, "don't love your mother", "don't be sad when people die", and "burn down the last remaining library of a nation that barely survived getting very efficiently genocided two generations ago"
@@martalaatsch8358 For that last one, Rey rescued the Jedi Texts before she left. You see them inside a compartment on the Millennium Falcon in a blink-and-you-miss-it moment. All Yoda destroyed was an empty, dead tree, and he knew it.
I can’t think of a villain who both so obviously needed therapy, AND would have been genuinely responsive to it. Anakin WANTED help. The Jedi then, in their sage wisdom, told him to can it and just stop being afraid 👍🏻
The prequel Jedi were assholes. Expecting people to shut down their emotions and blindly devote themselves to The Force, were told that grieving their dead loved ones was a bad thing even though it's perfectly natural, not being allowed to have spouses, kids and families because of the stupid "no attachments" thing and so on. At least in the original EU Luke's New Jedi Order did away with all those rules. Much better than the Disney Luke's "killed offscreen before we ever saw them" order.
The horrible mindset of toxic masculinity causes so much damage. Luke seeing through it was like breaking the cycle, and I think it's so important that he didn't follow the wisdom of the past, because it benefited no one. He didn't believe that should be the Jedi way.
Anakin refused the support system he had at the time. The Jedi profess a philosophy similar to Buddhism that professes feeling and understanding emotions while managing them, and similarly to the Jedi, gives up attachment, defined as an unwillingness to accept reality and experiencing unhealthy posessiveness. The principles of Meditation inspire and inform the principles of Therapy, and clearly, the Jedi allowed consultation with elders and masters, so mental health was not tossed aside. The thing is that they didn't do an intervention either. Anakin chose to stay within the Jedi Order and then refused to properly understand the philosophy or respect the boundaries set, and he held a lot of resentment towards the Order for not adapting to his specific desires. I rather think he was never meant to be a Jedi and that both he and the Order should have recognized it earlier. (I'm going to imput this as a personal comment on the video too, so if you see it repeated, you shall know why. XD)
@@annailles8625 That one by Hello Future Me is good (although I think he misses the mark a tiny bit in some places); it would still be fun to see what Jonathan and Alan do with it. And of course Zuko's redemptive arc....
@@femailler22 Zuko's redemptive arc, for me, is THE MOST well-earned character development I have ever seen in fiction. I find his arc much more human than Aang's: watching Aang resolving the Ozai confrontation/conflict with peace and justice uplifts me, fills me with hope, but Zuko's transformation was fully cathartic.
I feel bad for both Obi-Wan and Anakin. Obi-Wan was suddenly forced to train Anakin with little knowledge of how to do so, then Anakin, a traumatized kid who lost his mother then his father figure. They both bond but then they are forced to fight due to both of their mistakes. The scene where Obi-Wan fights Vader in Kenobi broke my heart.
and i see it as an oversight by the council too. like yes, obi wan just killed a sith lord, but maybe not letting him take an apprentice so soon maybe?
I genuinely hate Obi Wan. Congrats on driving a disturbed kid insane. Who went on to be space Hitler. Don't know how worse you could screw up, even if it was on purpose
Fun fact, Vader's suit actually catches and snags his burned skin all the time, there were designs for him to have an improved suit but he chose to keep the old suit because his pain fueled his connection to the dark side, so he could technically qualify for self harm which would make 8/9 signs
Actually the emperor hid said upgrades from him to keep him weak enough that he could control him but strong enough to beat anyone else. There were needles all over the suit that were to keep his nerves from dying I think? But he never knew about the upgrades I don’t think
@@jessehensley3179 He knew but there was a high chance he would die during the upgrade so he turned down and only made adjustments to the current suit like tightening the grip or something else.
"What we don't see in him is suicidal behavior or self-harm." Hoo-boy, wait until you hear about how his Darth Vader suit works, the downsides to it, and how he actively refuses to even attempt to move to a more comfortable one for someone in his condition. I'd say actively choosing to live a life of absolute agony every second of the day would qualify as "self harm".
He thought he deserved the suffering for his failings and weaknesses. The pain also strengthens his sith rage and sith presence which was a vital part of him defeating majority of his foes in battle
I love the part in the ep 3 novelization and rise of darth vader books that mention what it feels to be anakin skywalker forever and how painful the suit is to Vader respectively
Not to mention, suicidal behavior isn't always direct self-injury. It can also mean engaging in risky or reckless behavior that has higher stakes of danger or taking more frequent risks involving dangerous circumstances. Throughout the prequels, Anakin does dangerous stunts that could have easily gotten him badly hurt or killed if they went sideways. Ex. - his entire participation in the Podrace as a means of getting out of slavery (Phantom Menace) Ex. - jumping from a moving, flying vehicle at high speed to pursue a bounty hunter (Attack of the Clones) Ex. - basically the entire clone factory scene (Attack of the Clones) Ex. - the failed attempt at rescuing Obi-Wan that resulted in the Coliseum battle scene (Attack of the Clones) Ex. - charging headfirst towards Count Dooku instead of waiting and using teamwork like Obi-Wan instructed (Attack of the Clones) Ex. - jumping over Obi-Wan despite Obi-Wan having the high ground in their duel on Mustafar (Revenge of the Sith) (And the last one did result in grave harm that nearly killed him). - - - Also, notice how most of the examples are from Attack of the clones, when the death of his mother was recent and the psychological wound from that grief was still fresh.
Everyone who ever met Anakin Skywalker went "God what a mess, someone should do something" and no one ever did EDIT: I'm sad that this is the top comment on this video, and it's a joke I stole from somewhere else.
@@melisveziroglu3542 Yes, Luke! And, although it was too late for the so many... it did end up saving the galaxy! Thanks for the reminder. What an example in the early Luke!
The way the Jedi treated Anakin was like telling a depressed person to just feel happier... Except its worse because they knew Anakin was immensely important to the fate of the entire galaxy. But instead of making sure he grew up to be well-adjusted and not evil, they refused to make any exceptions for their Chosen One and just ignored all of his many, obvious issues. Meanwhile, a legitimate sociopath with multiple wives (Ki Adi Mundi) was allowed on the Council and the second highest ranking Jedi (Mace Windu) was openly hostile to Anakin.
It always bothered me that the Jedi are on about "bringing balance" to the force, when they actually mean that they will be entirely in charge. That isn't balance. That's a space theocracy. Also thier entire order was brought down by a second rate politician. They are doing something wrong
As a person who struggles with a severe depression, I agree that this “just be happy” bs coming even from closest people really hurts like hell. It feels like a punch in the face
People shit on Hayden Christensen's performance but I think it's actually really good. In attack of the clones Anakin is an immature teenager, and in revenge of the sith Anakin is a mentally struggling adult, and he portrays that so well.
To your point on self-harm, he willingly wore a suit that inflicted as much pain as possible and made his fortress overlooking the very spot of his greatest failure so he'd embrace pain.
That scene where Anakin is talking about hating sand. The hatred is not for sand. It's what it represents. As a child he had no control over the things that happened to him. He was a slave, vulnerable and not in control. The sand reminds him of that time in his life.
First off, he doesn’t “hate sand;” he “doesn’t like sand.” There’s a difference in intensity. Secondly, that’s beautiful and I’m glad you’re getting that from it, but I gotta be honest I’m pretty sure it’s just an excuse to touch her arm and tell her how “smooth” she is.
@@_somerandomguyontheinternet_ i think you need to recall that Anakin was raised by people who refused to acknowledge the use of the words fear, anger, hatred, and suffering as anything other than things Anakin needed to rise above, not things he could truly acknowledge. So of course Anakin would avoid the word Hate as much as possible, as if he says anger or fear he would get the whole spiel. From, someone who avoids the word try because everytime i only get "there is no try, there is only do"
I always understood the concept behind that line, and I agree that the meaning goes that deep. But the descriptions Anakin used could’ve been more representative of those feelings. Sand could’ve “burned your feet wherever you go” or it could’ve been “inescapable” or “endless” or anything that connects to that feeling of being trapped.
My husband watched this video last week and now when I’m emotionally disregulated, he stays calm and says “I love you unconditionally” and repeats he sees the “good in me” until I’m calm. With BPD I’ve never experienced such comfort and relief SO QUICKLY in a moment of extreme anger. We have couples therapy and loads of tools, but your videos influence has had such a huge impact on our interactions. THANK YOU!!
as a person with BPD hearing him say "people with borderline personality disorder don't tend to be homocidal lunatics" was legitimately so refreshing to hear, especially from a professional; the way we're treated and portrayed is almost always as horrible, unhelpable, and toxic people when it reality it tends to be quite the opposite, so hearing it here made me very happy
I've always believed i had BPD, once I asked a friend who was going into psychiatry ,and I brought it up and she totally gated me, pretty much going "no hun, I doubt you'd could ever be that malicious to have BPD" and i was just like "you dont think the youngest child, to an abusive father, who's felt alone all her childhood has a chance of having BPD?" sometimes people are just bad judges of character.
He's literally saying a character who killed children had bpd. He's not being nice he's being underhanded. He hates us like the rest of the "medical professionals"
I as someone with B.P.D, really enjoyed this episode. Was actually good to see a visual representation of someone with this with too and hear personal and professional advice and comments. So many things much about B.P.D out there is so very negative and this was done in a truthful but tactful way. Thanks guys.
I've been suspecting I have it for a few months now (could name several self sabotaging episodes, as well as emotional switching being expected from myself at this point)- I can't believe Anakin to be so relatable, I would never have thought that as a kid when I was just confused by him. It's true, the times when I have had unconditional love from my step-father, or my grandmother, it felt like I really was the hero of my own story and was achieving everything I would want.. Life was almost "easy mode" in terms of difficult things being very achievable. Without that, life is much harder only because of what is happening inside.
I was here to say the same thing. I have done DBT for years and it has helped TREMENDOUSLY, but it is still really hard to relate to others and I really appreciated this episode. Especially the end. It is a diagnosis that can be stigmatized often. There are therapists who refuse to work with people with BPD. I appreciated greatly the empathy and thoughtful analysis here. Thanks!
Same! I'm always nervous when I click on videos about BPD, even when I generally like/trust the creators, because there's so much misunderstanding and stigma. And I totally see Anakin in a new light now, he makes a bit more sense than he did before. Happy to add him to my (short, but growing) list of characters with BPD.
Anakin’s fall feels like something from a Shakespearean tragedy. He loved too much, and became heartless after that love spiraled into obsession. The devil that was pulling all the strings knew just what to say to push him over the edge. Even after he became Vader, and everyone gave up on the monster he’d become, Luke saw the broken man inside, his father, that just wanted to be free of his master and his own demons. It wasn’t just self hatred, the guilt and grief of everything he did, all the betrayal, hanged over him. He was a slave all his life, and only his son, the force, and forgiving himself, set Anakin free.
Exactly! And, since his child hood was a bonfire as well as everything that came after they get him off tatooine. He goes from slavery, danger, calling an alien 'master'.
@@hughjanos3992 oh come on Shylock is nice he just gets bullied by Antonio and basaanio and everyone and then hates them which is reasonable guy is just doing his job and they ruin his life just because he is Jewish Palpating on the other hand has no reason he is just evil
May I add to that? He also lived trough years of war, saw whole planets getting decimated, had the Jedi council disown his apprentice because of a framework and not even offer her a "we're sorry that happened". His fall was more of a gentle slope than a swan dive. (And, yes. Clone Wars is canon)
Actually she died of a broken heart because Anakin fell to the dark side. Anakin says in ROTS that he can’t live without her and the same is true for Padmé. She can’t live without him.
Just one person though, his mom. Padme's death is arguably his fault (yeah yeah "broken heart" and all but a pregnant woman was choked to unconsciousness That ain't healthy).
You should talk about Anakins descent through the Clone Wars series, it really highlights everything better and shows him getting more and more ruthless without Anakin even realizing it. He slowly becomes deluded and starts thinking everyone is acting against him.
The bad thing about The Clone Wars is that they fill the time gape between AotC and RotS. Once the whole trilogy was finished unlike Clone wars 2D that hit the TV in those years and the series ended and few weeks later RotS hit the theater
Clone Wars Anakin is what prequel Anakin should have been. He's actually the good friend and hero Obi-Wan described in the original trilogy not the whiny Padme obsessed incel of the prequels. Him and Obi-Wan are actually friends in the show whereas they seemed to hate each other in the films with Anakin projecting his jealousy of Obi-Wan onto him. Him becoming Vader was built up over the show's 7 seasons but in Revenge of the Sith it's rushed. He goes from remorse for helping Palpatine kill Mace Windu to unquestionably destroying the Jedi temple and killing kids for him within seconds. Not to mention Force choking the pregnant Padme and trying to kill Obi-Wan.
Yeah. I always feel like the Jedi order basically created Darth Vader. One of my major problems with the prequels is how it's hard to tell if this is the intended message or not. (I remember watching AotC when I was a kid and due to how the Jedi handled things I decided that the idea to not love others and to repress emotions was horrific and basically decided that I'd never want to be a Jedi. Idk how to explain it really, but imo the idea that that movie made a kid say he wouldn't want to be a Jedi is kinda depressing to me).
@@462n I still wanted to be a Jedi as a kid but in a reformed order that knew subjecting human and human like beings to a life of emotional self denial was both cruel and nonsensical.
@@jordanetherington1922 my point isn't about whether or not it was intentional in a factual sense. but rather that it's so hard to tell (when just going by the prequel trilogy of movies). In other words, even if it was intentional I still don't think it was handled well. If you only go by what happens in the prequel movies it can be seen as that the Jedi were right and Vader came to be because of him going against their rules (starting at an older age, falling in love, etc.). There's nothing to go by in the prequel movies that supports the idea that if Anakin had proper emotional support (and maybe, perhaps, a therapist) that he likely wouldn't have become Vader. The tools to give that kind of message are there, like him being around Palpatine since he praises and supports him, but the movies never take that extra step to show that that's what's going on. Heck, the reason he's with Palpatine so much at the beginning of III isn't even his choice, he was asked to do so by the Jedi Order (which is the first mistake of theirs that is definitely shown as a mistake).
@Ayla Alya I agree. I have been lightly bullied during middle and high school, and it has been more traumatizing for me than any other fucked up shit that happened to me ever since. And even if I've been doing fine for myself, it still shapes my relationships to people, my self-esteem and ability to trust and feel comfortable. I am still a bit irrationally afraid of overly self-confident people, I still have trouble owning who I am in public, etc... So yeah, bullying's no joke.
Darth Vader is a direct result of none of the responsible adults in the room with Anakin ever taking care of him as a human being before teaching him how to kill shit with his mind and an energy sword. And hey, let's not forget that the Jedi never bothered to free "the Chosen One's" mom, Shmi, from slavery. That couldn't possibly bite us on the ass later.
@@yoonahkang7384 That's totally one of the flaws in the Jedi's training. Repression is not healthy. If only Qui Gon was around to train Anakin, he was a much needed rebel.
@@yoonahkang7384 I thought Mando did a good job calling that out early but not really obsessing over it. It just means that later on when anything jedi-related comes up, that whole "no attachments" thing has already been established as going against common sense, as well as specifically un-Mandolorean.
I really feel for Obi-Wan as a teacher, because even though he came across as very critical in AotC, his teaching style is a bit different in other canon material. He did praise Anakin, did trust him, but also had the "unfortunate" position as someone who HAS to point out his mistakes. After 10 years of this, I can well imagine that patience is a precious commodity. Anakin was quite difficult to handle as it is, add in the whole "Chosen One" prophecy, Palaptine's grooming, hormones AND the entire Clone Wars shenanigans... I'm honestly not sure that even Qui-Gon could have 100% prevented Anakin from falling or making otherwise terrible decisions. Now to go read some fix-it fanfiction... T_T...
I believe Qui-Gon would have been able to help/fix Anakin. Qui-Gon was wise with words and teachings and also didn't believe everything the Jedi Council believed.
@@Dead_Hitori I respectfully disagree with the notion that Qui-Gon was the fix-all-cure many in the fandom seem to think he would've been. It's easy to idolize a dead man, because a dead man makes no mistakes.
@@Ouranorable i feel that it could have been a bit better had Qui-Gon not died. While he may not be able to fix it all by himself, him being alive means that Anakin and Obi Wan would be very much like brothers, rather than Obi-Wan being more of a mentor to Anakin. As OP said, Obi Wan had to criticise Anakin due to being his mentor, but if Qui Gon were his mentor, Obi Wan wouldn't be saddled with training Anakin and having to criticise him, rather being able to be someone who could be overall far more positive, supportive and encouraging to Anakin without the need for criticism. Idk, it's hard to say how much would be different
qui-gon would have figured out palpatine very quickly. thats why palpatine needed him dead before he ascended to power. If qui-gon doesn't die, then palpatine wouldn't have been confident enough to assume power over the republic and begin the clone wars (and if he did qui-gon would have figured him out). He would still probably fuck up the jedi order after qui-gon dies (naturally or killed by another sith sent by palpatine) , but anakin wouldn't turn to the dark side
Somehow I think this is the first time I’ve realized what a harsh mentor Obi-Wan is. Everyone always sees him as the perfect Jedi and a beacon of light so this flaw always flies under the radar. And you’re right, the movies don’t really examine the impact of that.
It really is so easy to miss. I think a lot of us, and I know I, liked Obi-Wan and wanted to see him succeed which made it easy to pass off harsh criticism as helpful advice. That's especially true since that's clearly how much of it was intended. I think the problem with Obi-Wan is that he wasn't prepared to raise a child and because he wasn't really supported himself, he wasn't able to support Anakin. He wasn't able to be a parent to Anakin because he didn't know *how* and so he instead threw all his energy into being a teacher without realizing that that doesn't work when you're also responsible for a child's social/emotional learning and wellbeing. That's not to mention the incredible pressure Obi-Wan must have been under both from the council and a dead Qui-Gon to make Anakin succeed.
@@samtheflutegirl1373 Plus (this is second hand knowledge, sorry for any mistakes) Obi-Wan had a really messed up childhood? Like he basically flunked out of being a jedi and sent away to a farming colony until Qui-Gon grudgingly took him on, and even then Qui-Gon was far from a supportive and caring guardian. I personally headcannon that Obi-Wan had a massive case of imposter syndrome with all these people acting like he was the perfect jedi but all he can remember is when he failed.
One great revelation for me from this episode is the one about Obi Won being so critical of Anakin. When in the context of the movies, I didn’t really make that connection, but when it’s all together, I thought “Wow, dude, give the kid a break...”
Same here. That supercut was harsh. I'm a grown-ass adult and even now when I work with people who offer far more criticism than praise (or those who always add criticism onto praise like it will go down better that way) I tend to get pretty down. If i had someone like that as a teacher I'd have alot of trouble responding positively.
Yeah I think it's really well done, the way you don't really notice it. Because Obi Wan himself doesn't notice it. It's one of these things people tend to just do/say, often times not even realising how much it affects the person on the recieving end. He generally has a good heart and means well but lots of times, in the heat of battle doesn't think about what he's saying and how it might affect Anakin. He's a good guy but in way over his head as a mentor/father-figure
@@jonartscc968 He was pushed into this way too young himself. He was barely a knight and got minimal help because he was basically acting against the interest of the counsil. A great sassy older brother if there was someone to balance him out, but a shitty single father.
You guys should do an analysis about how the Jedi are manipulative and constantly told Anakin to suppress emotions. Isn't it bad to be hounded and lectured and punished for feeling fear, anxiety and anger? Aren't ALL emotions vital to the human animal?
I wish they could do an entire series on Anakin. Almost everyone in his life just set him up for failure and then acted surprised when he lost it. It’s so sad
I'm am pretty sure we are human beings, created in the image of God, but we are now disconnected from him because we directly disobeyed Him. But thanks be to God that He loves us far more than any human can comprehend, and all you NEED TO DO is repent of your sins and accept Jesus is God and that he died on the cross for your sins so that you can avoid eternal suffering and join God in everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 6:23
It's funny, because I have hated the Jedi as a religion/sect the more I get into the Star Wars universe. I still love Star Wars, but the Jedi basically kidnap vulnerable children, brainwash them, make them into child soldiers, and then continue to control their lives and take away anything they could possibly love throughout their adult lives. It's ridiculous.
@@hymnsforchrist3620Agreed I am surprised how rarely I've heard people raise concern about how the Jedi council recruited *children* into being trained to essentially become soldiers and be unable to have any family or friends, children at ages so low they barely have a sense of identity, let alone knowing if they are ready to accept having to devote themselves to a lifestyle of no connections, no family and constant suppression of emotions while also being a soldier with their life at risk. And even worst is that Anakin was considered *too old* by Jedi recruitment standards... for fuck's sake they indoctrinate children smaller than 9!
because they have nwver met anyone that didnt have exact same sterile Jedi nursery upbringing. So without consiouslt working on it they conceptualize how childhood trauma would efffect him in the present
They miss it because Jake Lloyd’s acting(and misguidance from directors) doesn’t convey that. Anakin doesn’t feel like a wounded soul in Episode 1, he feels like every other generic child actor. Compare that to the kid actors like in the modern It film, they all feel like real kids who are going through serious trauma. Also even though they call Anakin a slave they don’t really show much of the hardship, mostly they focus on the fun aspects of the character like pod racing, building robots, and even the scene of him flying a ship to fight the blockade is super light hearted especially compared to the dog fight in Episode 4. And then episode 2 suffers from having too much emphasis on Anakin’s romantic subplot which, among other things, doesn’t focus enough on the tragedy of Anakin and the lose of his mother. By Episode 3 the arc of Anakin focuses explicitly on the tragedy he is going through and thus his anger doesn’t feel as out of place as it does in the second film where his anger is utilized too early and too often. In the 3rd film they hold back more on Anakin’s anger until moments he should be angry about something
@@johnmartin4119 It's all in execution that George often failed very much in prequels. It was writers and actors that improved George Lucas original trilogy just look at his original script for a new hope it's a bunch of interesting ideas but no well coherent story, Vader was created from several characters and anakin was a Jedi in the original trilogy, Luke was 60 year old general, stormtroopers have lightsabres, Han was originally an alien. George Lucas seemed to forget how much the writers, director and actors improved his movies
I was diagnosed with BPD during chemo therapy, five years ago. I went through 9 months of DBT group therapy and private sessions. I still see my therapist every week, we’ve moved on from DBT to EMDR. I’ve grown so much from these experiences. I’ve learned self love and healthy self expression. If it wasn’t for the steps I took I would have probably destroyed the relationship I am currently in years ago. Thank you for this. It’s nice to not be labeled as a villain because I was abused as a child. It’s also nice to have a whole backpack of DBT skills that I use regularly to help me identify why I’m feeling the way I am, take enough time to choose how to express my feelings, stay mindful, and work to improve interpersonal communication.
Hey. I'm considering starting group therapy and have just discovered i have some symptoms of BPD. What are your opinions on group therapy? Does it help you? Any tips you can give me?
@@Sarah-og3mp group therapy and DBT completely transformed my life for the better. The work was hard and the experience was challenging, but I came out of it with so much more control of my life. I now have satisfying relationships. I had a terrible time in undergrad and now I’m excelling at the graduate level. Again, it’ll be a challenging journey, but I am so happy I pushed myself. I’m finally happy with myself and while some days are harder than others, I have a much better skill set to tackle them. ❤️
@@Sarah-og3mp DBT in particular is quite literally a lifesaver and was designed originally *for* BPD (although is used for other diagnoses now too) *BY* someone with BPD, so it's very much worth looking into.
To be fair, Anakin's character is highly developed during the Clone Wars TV show. He was that Rogue like Han and that Integral figure like Luke. He wasn't entirely arrogant, but he did exude a confidence. And when he figured if he was being arrogant, he owned up to it. That being said, he was a mess, but he tried to keep his shit together.
Yeah, and he went through hell, Ahsoka leaving the Order was probably the biggest blow to him, she was probably the healthiest relationship Anakin has ever had and without her to help keep him grounded, well he just fell apart and all he had to really rely on was Padme, Obi-Wan, and Palpatine all of which presented obvious problems.
I heard that Lucas let Filoni write Anakin that way bc of the backlash. While sure, it's fun, but I read an article someone wrote where the TCW Anakin promoted toxic masculinity, men can't be sensitive. And its kind of true. PT Anakin wasn't afraid to cry when he was upset. He was openly affectionate towards Padme when he could be. TCW gave us the Clovis fight 🙄
I solidly agree with you, and heartily recommend Clone Wars...but Anakin is one of my least favourite parts of the series. It's especially annoying that he never gets any narrative punishment for his impulsive actions, terrible tactics, and smug self-satisfaction.
@@Werrf1 well, that's why The Clone Wars is a prequel to Revenge of the Sith. Anakin's habit of being reckless that he develops throughout the show comes back to bite him big time in RotS.
I think the biggest scene that emphasizes his pain is ,ironically, one that probably wasn’t intentional. It’s in the final arc known as the siege of Mandalore. Early in the episode we see him act like a goof clearly taken by Kenobi, however few scenes later it is stated Corousaunt is being invaded. A sign that this arc takes place minutes before ROTS. It’s from there that scene becomes, sad is a way.
I remember thinking Jake Lloyd’s acting was bad when I watched this as a kid, and held to that idea for a long time. On a recent rewatch though, I wondered why I felt that way and why other people said it. Having to say lines like “Yippee!” and “I’ll try spinning-that’s a good trick” is hard, but for the most part, he just seemed like a real kid. An outgoing, precocious kid who tries to always act like everything’s cool and he’s got things under control. I thought all the scenes with his mom were great, and I found their separation heartbreaking.
Deleted scene of Obi Wan talking to Padme in RotS “I am not blind, Padmé. Though I have tried to be, for Anakin’s sake. And for yours. Anakin has loved you since the day you met, in that horrible junk shop on Tatooine. He’s never even tried to hide it, though we do not speak of it. We… pretend that I don’t know. And I was happy to, because it made him happy. You made him happy, when nothing else ever truly could.”
This fantastic bit of dialogue could have been in the movie. Instead we got: A: You are so beautiful. P: Only because I'm so in love. A: No. It's because I'm so in love with you. (awkward silence) P: ... so love has blinded you? A: (awkwardly laughing) No, no... that's not exactly what I meant. (end scene) Seriously, everyone always harps on the Anakin and Padme "falling in love" dialoge from Clones, but to me this is far and away the cringiest bit of dialogue ever shared between these two.
I’ve been saying for years that Anakin is the most abandoned character in movie making history. The most iconic villain in our culture is actually an abused child who was let down by the people who were supposed to guide and protect him. I see now how I’ve been projecting my own BPD diagnosis onto this conclusion. Even so, this video was so damn validating for me. Thank you cinema therapy
that actually adds something sadly poetic to the fact that people don't like the prequels: Anakin has been abandoned by everyone, even the all-knowing audience that should have been able to understand him, truly a tragic character
@@marcopohl4875 EXACTLY. As a whole we've focused more on attacking the actors who played Anakin than focusing on the unlikely redemption we have in Vader. Anakin is a tragic character deceived and abandoned by his mentors, the writer, the audience and the culture.. it takes a village
Agreed which is why Luke when he revived the Jedi Council did away with many of the practices that were established because he knew what those practices would lead to, in the OG extended lore/Legends Universe it was revealed that he allowed fellow Jedi Masters, and Jedi Knights including fan-favorite Kyle Katarn to teach padawans like Jaden Korr how to use both "Jedi Powers", and what were considered "Sith Powers" along with these teaching philosophies that we see Kyle teaching Jaden, and Kesh those being "No power is good or evil it's how you use it that determines whether it's good or evil", and "It's all right to feel angry, but it's not okay to give in to your anger".
@@jamiestyles4499 Yeah. It's so easy to blame Anakin, because he's the one to make the final choice. But when you look at the people surrounding him it becomes obvious that all that happened could have been avoided so easily
Also: "youre powerful and a genius but you cant be a jedi because were scared of you because you could possibly become evil" "oh yea hes out there killing people now, we have no idea how that could have possibly happened AT ALL"
I myself was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder after years of neglect and trauma I have a lot of very close relationships but I used to actively push them away (still do times ) my closest friends see through my paranoia and bullshit and don't let me push them away
Not to mention the trauma I faced when the person I cared about the most who was supposed to be my other half and I planned to marry abandoned me and lied about it
That is great news that your friends don’t allow you to push them away. If they do what the experts in the video said and your friends also do what Luke did then that is good for you. So sorry you went through that. Good luck!
Young Anakin: "I'm a person and my name is Anakin" Darth vader: "that name no longer has any meaning for me" Just think about how far Anakin lost himself. Edit: thank you everyone for the responses and the like. It shows how much you understand people's hardships. Understanding is an art and not everyone is an artist.
There was this really great Star Wars what if comic where maul and Vader fight. Vader wins and maul asks “who could you hate so much to have so much power” and then Vader says “myself”.
I think that makes sense! He’s a bit idealistic and wants everyone to be okay and really thinks he can help, and then not being able to help, lose his mom and constantly be told he can’t help and the people who are supposed to be the good guys are like “no, deal with it. Don’t be a baby, you’re being a bad Jedi” would piss anyone off and force them to Fuchs support elsewhere.
@@ElleDeas They never insulted him that way, you guys are being too extremist. Its weird. Yoda literally sat him down and told him everything he was doing would lead him to the dark side and he ignored it and just kept doing what he wanted.
I mean, Anakin, in a very extreme way, is the same as any person who jumps ship when he sees the flaws of his upbringing. Whether that means switching parties, religions, or environments, it can be a good decision or a bad one. In Anakins case, he saw the internal corruption of the Jedi, and decided that anything that wasn’t them must be the right side. How can anything evil lead to the saving of my wife? It’s just like fascists who fell in love with their regime for pulling them out of poverty or former Christians who embrace atheism to the point of mocking and belittling current Christians.
@@Prince_the_One but is that really the kind of talk you would give to a child? There used to be a lot of Expanded Universe novels exploring the Anakin / Obi-Wan dynamic in more detail (now all non-canon), but that still shows how the Hedi council was basically a bunch of... to Anakin. I've been a kids martial arts instructor for years and I know for a fact that sage/yoda style of teaching doesn't on but a select few.
I think an argument can be made for anakin being suicidal. There are so many times in the films and the clone wars show where he just throws himself at something that should kill him and by some stroke of luck he lives. Obviously there is the force and that plays a role in his survival
To me it seemed to be a case of Anakin truly not thinking that he was endangered by his actions. He knows the force is with him. He knows he is skilled, probably more skilled then most. I think he doesn't think that the threat of these situations applies to him because he is special.
An interesting take, but I think there is a clear distinction between recklessness and suicidality. Mentally you’re in totally different places when you experience those two things.
Anakin is very relatable and that's why he's my favorite character. He's not perfect, he's not a hero, he's just human. He's afraid and broken and angry and he really needs help but he doesn't get any
When I just watched the movies, I didn't really connected to him but after watching Clone Wars I really loves him, so yeah I think after Ahsoka he is my favorite character. And the DBT diagnosis make so much sense, It's super interesting
I love that Obiwan’s overly negative teaching style comes from Quigon. In the beginning of Episode One we see Quigon lecturing about the present and Obi was very receptive to it. A more experienced teacher would’ve known the same approach wouldn’t work with Anakin but all Obiwan knew how to do was imitate Quigon. Over the Clone Wars he dropped those bad habits but by that point it was too late.
@@Xehanort10 And, Obi-Wan did it because nobody else would, if I remember correctly. The rest of the counsel had thought Anakin was too old to be trained. Any more qualified instructor was unwilling to take on the task.
... Ya'll talking about this is bringing back some bad memories of mine in the USAF. This stuff is applicable in the real world. I was a jet engine mechanic. I didnt have the best of supervisors and trainers, I often got assigned to literally the worst or most inexperienced "trainers" in the shop, to the point where I basically had to train myself to avoid total incompetence. 5 years later, I took more to heart what didnt work than what did work, in training new airmen. Something I strived to do was figure out what each individual airman needed to be trained properly, since every person has different motivators, different mental traits, different pasts, etc. I generally got positive feedback on my teaching styles from new airmen, even ones I was harder on. Had I just acted the same as my own trainers had been, I honestly think that would've meerly perpetuated a cycle of abuse at that unit. Anyway, point is... Kinda sounds like the Jedi arent much better than one of the worst maintenance units in the air force.
Which makes a lot of sense. Qui-Gon was probably the best of the jedi, and given a few more years he could have made a great jedi and a competent teacher out of Obi-Wan, but he didn't get a few more years, and the jedi council didn't recognize that he wasn't ready to pass along his skills.
How good of an episode would it be if you guys went over Obi Wan and all he’s gone through in Clone Wars without being somehow absolutely physiologically destroyed by it?
@@blinkachu3394 I see it more as there was so much story that couldn’t be addressed in one trilogy. Pretty much every Star Wars show (clone wars, rebels, mandalorian, bad batch) has a better formula because there is more time to tell the story so we can see things that films don’t have time to get into.
@@blinkachu3394 there’s also the fact of putting everything into movies makes it rushed, but tv shows really have more time, more space, to develop and create each character into their own character
In my opinion, I do think Anakin engages in self-harm by intentionally putting himself in dangerous and risky situations without assessing the potential harm he may be doing to himself. It circles back to the idea that he at times feels invincible before dropping back into a negative self image after realising the damage he's done.
I wouldn't call it self harm when the reason anakin rushes into certain death is because to him, certain death scenarios aren't difficult to survive, he can run and dodge gunfire, pick up tanks, and the only thing preventing him from killing people is often the fact if he needs to or not, by the time of the clone wars anakin was already an experienced combatant, and once it started he would feel obligated to do everything he can to win the war to save as many lives as he can by ending it as quickly as possible
When Alan talks about Anakin being whiny and emotional and awkward.....that was the whole point, Lucas was trying to capture what an awkward teenager looks and feels like and he got it spot on
Yeah, many people fail to take into account that he is a teen, and still not mentally and emotionally mature, but dealing with incredibly mature scenarios.
The real tragedy, and possibly proof that Lucas is more insightful than he lets on or even realizes himself: Qui-Gon would've provided ALL those things Anakin needed: unconditional love, strict boundaries, high expectations and encouragement to meet them. Because of these traits, Qui-Gon was treated as an outsider by the rest of the Jedi. Which is another thing he'd more empathetic to Anakin about.
Lucas actually does gets the credit for that one. It was all intentional. That's why the music for his fight with Maul is called Duel of the Fates. The outcome of that battle is what decided Anakin's future. When Maul killed Qui-Gon, his fate was sealed. Vader was inevitable.
You missed The Clone Wars. Padme had an ex boyfriend Anakin had to struggle to NOT kill on principle during their shared arc. Anakin is INCREDIBLY protective of his relationships & possessive of the people in his life. He unfortunately subscribes to the “you are MINE forever” and “if I can’t have you no one can” schools of thought.
Clovis right? The absolute madlad actually challenged him to a fistfight. Really? A polotician vs. a battle hardened knight? I almost respected his idiocy lol
Honestly I regard TCW Anakin as an alternate reality Anakin. Little of his characterization in TCW felt congruent with his representation in the films. This was actually intentional, too: George Lucas wanted TCW to retcon Anakin into being more likeable. Which is confusing - what elements of TCW are supposed to overrule which parts of the prequels then?
OK, here's another "Clovis did nothing wrong TM" person. Except he did. Just before Anakin beat him up, Clovis was forcing his attentions on Padme, and *kept on doing it when she was saying no*. That's called a forced kiss, or even sexual assault. Any man who does not respect consent and continues to press his attentions on a woman after she says no, which is what Clovis did, deserves everything he gets.
@@allature I didn't. People say that Clovis was "just flirting" with Padme in that scene, but he was doing more than that, he was embracing her and did not back off when she was saying "NO!". That's called sexual assault. I don't blame him for beating the crap out of that creep. Not to mention that he held a gun to her head a while later, and in Series 2 Padme ended up getting poisoned by Clovis political rivals. I mean literally, she ends up dead or nearly being killed, or raped every time she is with that dude.
@@englishlady9797 ...? Huh? Uhm... I never defended Clovis? All I commented was that I remembered when he was dumb enough to challenge Anankin to a fight "without his Jedi tricks" (as if that would make a difference lol) I think you might have me confused with someone?
Hearing Alan honestly admit his faults and talk about how he's changed and improved himself as a person is so powerful and I'm so impressed because that must have taken incredible bravery. Thank you Alan.
I tend to stay away from stuff about BPD because of how people demonize us, but this was extremely humanizing and eye opening. I didn't even realize I push people away as a way of testing them, I really appreciate this.
I doubt that I have/had BPD, but I definitely showed symptoms of it during late middle school/early high school. I would test my friends’ loyalty to the point of tears, and I wouldn’t even realize it. So glad that for people who legitimately struggle with it there’s a light at the end of the tunnel.
I always push people away and they never come back. Hence why I don't have any close friends. 7/9 on the BPD scale (self diagnosed myself with BPD years ago, maybe due to my post-graduate degree in Psychology??)
@@brambojr4298 i noticed that some people can be mostly fine but in times of stress look a lot like BPD lite. It's something many need to work on. It's almost like it's a spectrum just not recognized yet.
I like Anakin because his character actually makes sense. Basically his whole motivation is protecting the people he loves. But he repeatedly loses and fails to protect the people he loves. This happens to everyone. A normal healthy person would ultimately except that they can’t control all outcomes and begin to heal from the loss. But Anakin is the most powerful Jedi that’s ever been. People keep telling him he’s the chosen one, the strongest hero ever. He basically caps out and gets as strong as he possibly can on the light side of the Force. And he still can’t keep his loved ones from dying and leaving. So, instead of accepting outcomes and healing, he decides that the light side has failed him and he turns to the dark to keep expanding his power. He never lost his intrinsic motivation. His turn to the dark side is entirely in line with his character.
Here's the thing: all of that is true, but as originally presented (before the Clone Wars cartoon decided to somewhat fix it), the story is _horribly_ told and the pacing is all over the place. It isn't a _satisfying_ fall to villainy. It's in-character, but that doesn't make it done well.
@@RabblesTheBinx Clone Wars helps with pacing in that it actually shows us a lot of the trauma that led to his deteriorated mental state, but it also breaks a lot of other things established not only in the movies but the Star Wars Insider issues (which themselves provided a lot of details about the war and how Anakin was shaped by it, but details). The chips arguably being the worst offender as it robs the clones of any and all humanity, complexity, or internal conflict. Honestly, the only thing that held the prequels back was poor line delivery. The story is excellent, and relatively well told.You see very clearly where things happen and why, but the tone is shattered in places by hammy acting which itself is largely the fault of poor directing. In spite of this, Episode 3 is still the best of the films by far to me, only closely rivaled by Episode 4 and 5.
@@leftwardglobe1643 exactly what is your point? Yeah, Clone Wars makes it better, I addressed that, but _as originally presented_ it is very poorly done. And it's not just the dialogue or delivery. Anakin brutally murders an entire village after being nothing but creepy and obsessive towards her during the entirety of Episode II, and Padmé decides she loves him literally a couple hours later, in-universe. It's a badly told story. Clone Wars helped, but it doesn't fix all of the problems in Episode III and does almost nothing to fix AotC. And you're actually putting RotS above the OT? I'm sorry, you're entitled to your opinion, but no. RotS is, by far, the best of the prequels, but it is nowhere near the quality of even Return of the Jedi, let alone Episodes IV and V.
@@RabblesTheBinx No it attempts to provide context to Anakin's story, which yes, is a good goal. It does that job rather poorly when compared to other sources, but it's a good goal. However, it also destroys several other elements of the final movie and wider universe in the process. It doesn't improve the prequels at all. if anything it tries to retcon established lore, succeeds, and damages far more than the prequels in the process. From the Mandalorian Arc where their entire culture is upended to the chips which exist purely to ruin the Order 66 scene by robbing it of any and all tragedy/perspective. They took the best scene in the entirety of the franchise and retroactively turned it into a supervillain flipping a switch for his master plan of the week. The clines used to have moral reasons for doing what they did from their experiences during the war in the original background material. Just like Anakin. But no, we can't have the bad guys be relatable. It is absolutely the dialogue and delivery. Padme accepts Anakin before that point in the story, they have spent several days if not weeks together at this point, both o the flight to Naboo and on Naboo itself. Not to mention their infatuation from childhood and the fact that he quite literally saved her life. Plus Anakin going out into the wilderness, trying to save his mother and then having her die in his arms after being tortured, starved, and potentially raped and abused, all whilst having not seen her since the age of ten, makes for a rather compelling set of justifications to kill everyone there in the most brutal fashions possible. Especially considering that incidents like this are not unique to Anakin's mother on Tatooine, and given that he has already experienced significant trauma at this point having to grow up without parents in a cult that teaches him to shun any and all emotions, oh also his one and only father figure before Obi Wan died in combat. I would likely do the same in his position and most of us would go to similar extremes if not further. The plot here is undermined by poor performances and bad directing, not the writing. We don't see the connection between Anakin and Padme before that point because the actress never shows any indication of it existing through body language or tone. Anakin comes off as creepy and obsessive largely because the attempt was to make him seem inexperienced and nervous and they failed at that. Padme seems to just accept Anakin after killing the sand people both because of the absence of tone in earlier scenes which would establish how deep their connection was and because she is trying to comfort him after going through what is likely the most traumatic thing in his life. Episode 2 isn't great, but it's not failed by writing. Episode 3, on the other hand, again, has some sloppy dialogue and fight scenes, but it's by far the most compelling narratives in any of the movies once examined. It's a tragedy, and a damned good one. From the relationship between Anakin and Obi Wan, to the politics and machinations of Palpatine, to the masterfully done Order 66 scene, to Padme's death. Vader goes down a very dark path, and loses everything he fought to save, but at the same time creates something that he believes will be a moral good in the galaxy. Knowing the lore so intimately, I can't say he's wrong either. Contrast this with Return of the Jedi where logic is thrown out the window regarding what is physically possible (I fucking hate Ewoks and their rocks), the villains are robbed of any sense of competence and danger by being made into complete fucking idiots, and our main characters celebrate over a stormtrooper barbeque at the end of the film... and suddenly this shit shines like gold. Now, Episode 6 has it's moments, and it's almost saved by the final few scenes between Vader and Luke, but the rest of the film is entirely awful and a confounded mess... well, save for the dialogue, but that's what good acting gets you. IV and V on the other hand have good structure, sensible plots and characters, and excellent acting for the most part, making them excellent films, but they lack the sheer tragedy and depth that Revenge of the Sith has. They do take 3rd and 2nd spots on my list respectively, however. The sequels are mostly awful (Force Awakens is ok, but not great), Episode 1 and 2 suffer from very poor direction and line delivery even if the plot is stellar in the second film, and Return of the Jedi is by far the worst film of both the Original and Sequel Trilogies.
Wait, there are people who say his shift to dark side didn`t make sense? Um, the guy was enslaved along with his mom. Then he was taken away from his mom by psychic dudes with laser swords to train him to become like them so he can save the galaxy, something a kid definitely won`t have any idea WTF is all about. And of course they didn`t save her, free her from the slavery when they could. So now he has to worry about his mom, his only source of love & affection, his only connection, being chained, dragged & forced to do chores and god knows what more horrible things they did to her, while he was learning how to make shit float with his mind & use a laser sword that totally didn`t originate from some kinda disco club. He was taught to NOT have any attachments, but his only attachment only got stronger. Then PUBERTY happened. Then he lost his mentor, then got another one, this one liked to use harsh criticism as teachings. But that doesn`t work on Anakin. It only pisses him off then makes him doubt his abilities. He was literally groomed by the leader of the guys he is being trained to beat the crap outta with the power of his mind. Turns out his mother died by the time he came to save her. He got worried about his GF, who later became his wife, leaving him, then was worried about her dying, so to save her he learnt dark mag- I mean Sith force powers, which includes choking people from a distance with your brain power. Not only is it useful for long range, but it`s also Kinky. Then by the end he was convinced that the people who taught him ``no attachments if u wanna use laser swords & pushing shit around with your mind`` were against him, including the mentor whose teaching style didn`t fit insecure kids including him. And of course, he hates sand. Its coarse, rough, and it gets everywhere. How won`t you expect a mental breakdown where he just basically declares: ``fuck it, I`m gonna use black mag- I mean dark powers instead, TRAITOR!``
Another important relationship that Anakin was the one with his padawan Ahsoka from the Clone Wars series. She honestly might have been the healthiest relationship he had before his fall. She was like a younger sister to him and showed a lot of his qualities: talented, confident, at times to a fault, and a strong sense of doing what she believes is right, even if others doubt it. And while she would get on Anakin's case at times like Obi-wan, she held a deep respect and admiration for him that he did not find among the Jedi his age or older. They truly cared for each other and Ahsoka was one of the best influences in Anakin's life.
I mean, I know that George Lucas was involved in show-running TCW for the first few seasons, but Dave Filoni, Pablo Hidalgo, and Disney were all involved in running, and intentionally distanced themselves from the portrayals of Anakin, Padme, and Obi Wan in the OT and PT movies to appease all those entitled and whiny fanboys who have never been happy with the fact that Darth Vader quickly became so much more of a complex, relatable, and tragic villain/tragic hero that that horrifying cyborg-killing monster machine who force-choked all of his guards because they defied his orders in “Star Wars: Episode IV.” It was written for the fanboys who desperately wanted for Anakin to just be this toxically masculine power fantasy who destroyed lives and blew up planets for shits and giggles. If you go by GL OT and PT canon, then Anakin/Vader is portrayed as being a tragic hero/tragic villain type who only values power and asks those he loves most to rule the galaxy with him because he comes from a background of childhood abuse, abandonment, separation, poverty, slavery, and went into flight or fight mode to survive. The environment and adults/authority figures he grow up with pretty much consistently suck after leaving his mother, he has nothing to go back to after she dies, and so he ends up making the choice to become a perpetrator in the cycle because there is no easy way for him to escape. PT!Jedi Council are emotionally abusive, ridiculously restrictive, unhelpful, and cult-like, Palpatine groomed him from the age of 12 because the Jedi Council was negligent and used him as a pawn for their own political purposes. Palpatine/Sidious can’t be killed by him without Anakin risking his own life in the process after he gets burnt up, disfigured, and weakened in a way that makes it so he can’t easily kill his abuser without risking his own life in the process. He hates himself so much that he doesn’t even want that release of death anymore after Padme dies in childbirth, at least in part because he recklessly choked her in a rage when he thought she brought Obi Wan with her to kill him when he was high on this new dark power, and so he submits himself to a life as Sidious’ killing cyborg man Darth Vader to punish himself for failing as Anakin Skywalker. In the GL OT and PT canon he is basically always in fight or flight survival mode until the end. His fatal flaw is he keeps sacrificing his moral compass to fit into one of these two space cults philosophy because he didn’t grow up in a healthy environment with healthy guardians for most of his childhood that encouraged the importance of individual growth, values, and choice. After TPM, he no longer has a solid moral foundationbecause he’s been constantly told negative feelings are “dangerous” by the Council, and Palpatine is constantly encouraging him to release them by acting on on them in an abusive way in the heat of the moment when someone challenges him, rather than being taught they are valid feelings that make him human, rather than a monster, and he can feel safe healthily releasing them through having a shoulder to cry on as catharsis, just follow his first instinct to do what he feels is right, not what everyone else tries to tell him. Not an entire excuse for his crimes because, while sympathetic, his motives for falling were selfish in his desperation. While risky, he could still stand up for his beliefs, in spite of limited options and negative circumstances against him. He is eventually a coward in his fear of the unknown, but it’s impossible not to pity Anakin and see where he’s coming from when he comes from poverty on Tatooine who the Republic devoted to “Democracy” don’t give a shit about freeing from slavery, he has no one left after his mother dies there anyway, Obi Wan cares, but he’s not a healthy support system or mentor because he has been raised by an emotionally repressive and abusive PT!cult Jedi since infancy. Most of Anakin’s life he’s constantly being encouraged to defer his moral compass to figures with authority over him to gain some sense of security and acceptance, rather than being told that it’s okay for him to just be Anakin, aside from Luke and his mom. TCW and Disney kind of ruined that characterization that makes any sort of atonement he makes in ROTJ seem wrong. The force, particularly the dark side of the force, for him is framed as a drug that he abuses to blindly, unhealthily, and recklessly release all his pent up anger, fear, and rage in the heat of moment when he’s feeling angry, betrayed, fearing abandoned, or feeling sad if he’s not using it to fulfill any sort of specific request for Sidious or the Council. It’s usually not this premeditated abuse of control and power if he’s not using it to fulfill an order in the PT and OT movies. In TCW (08-19’) he’s got too much self-confidence, too much self-control, his possessive side is flanderdized, his controlling side seems more cold and demanding when he’s interacting with Padme in Clovis, rather than clingy insecure attachment with one moment of blind lash out in a rage angry without thought for the consequences when he finally embraces the high of the new dark power as Vader in the heat of the moment . He’s more than just naive, impulsive, and afraid, but genuinely stupid in TCW, and he has too many people who genuinely love him and offer him compassion and opportunities for redemption after his turn to the dark side for me to believe that he would just keep rejecting opportunities for redemption through close attachments over and over again.
@@Schoolgirl325 I really enjoyed your take on prequel Anakin. I mostly agree but for two points: 1/ Padme is an enabler. By not acting on her knowledge of the Tusken massacre she did Anakin a huge disservice. By coddling Anakin and later sweeping the mass murder under the rug never to be mentioned or acknowledged again she did a lot of damage. What Anakin did was a loud call for help, he should have been forced to therapy after that and made responsible for his actions. Padme made him feel that what he did was okay and there was no need to address it again. She just pretended that it never happened and Anakin played along. 2/ Anakin's redemption doesn't work for me with or without TCW: By saving one person - his own son - he couldn't undo all the evil he had done before. Had he lived he would have been sentenced to life imprisonment or death penalty and rightfully so. I would have loved to see whether Luke would have been ready to accept that or turned into another Padme-like enabler and helped him escape.
Had Qui-Gon lived and trained Anakin, Anakin likely never would have turned to the Dark Side. Obi-Wan did his best, but he wasn’t ready to have a Padawan at that time, especially someone like Anakin. Obi-Wan acknowledges he failed Anakin in Revenge of the Sith which seems to indicate he was self aware he wasn’t fit to be Anakin’s Jedi Master, but did his best as to fulfill Qui-Gon’s dying wish of training Anakin. Though because he went against the Jedi way and married Padmé, he had Luke and Leia and Luke was the one who saved his father and turned Vader back into Anakin, who then killed the Emperor and being Balance to the Force. Honestly, I love the Prequels. Always have and always will. I do put the Original Trilogy above the Prequels, but the Prequels have gotten better as time has gone on. At the end of the day, there are 6 great films with George Lucas at the helm. No Disney nonsense. That’s all corporate fiction.
Pro Tip for having a relationship with someone with bpd: Reassure them that they will not be abandoned, no matter how convinced they are, and learn to not take their fears as criticism. Sometimes you just have to ride their emotional waves with them.
This one. I finally found someone who is able to do this and along with me being in therapy, we have been in a super healthy and amazing relationship for two years and are planning on engagement.
@@maxcovfefe I’m sorry, but do you have BPD or are you a health professional? Because that’s just not true at all. You cannot “outgrow” BPD. BPD physically changes your brain. BPD is not PTSD at all, and never will be. It is a Cluster B personality disorder. PTSD is an anxiety disorder. To clump the two of them together and say that they’re the same is honestly quite dangerous.
@@maxcovfefe I never said it wasn’t treatable. BPD is very treatable and can even stop needing treatment. But that damage in the brain doesn’t leave. Just because it reminds you of another disorder, doesn’t mean it’s the same at all. Unless you work with Cluster Bs you honestly should not be spreading your information around. Especially considering you worked with those who had brain damage (not Cluster Bs) a long time ago. We know so much more now, and to say that a Cluster B type disorder is the same as an anxiety/panic disorder is honestly ridiculous and extremely hurtful to those who actually do this for a living or who live with a Cluster B disorder. It’s also ridiculous that you had the nerve to write “but not devoid of hope” when writing about people with BPD. Even if they can’t be treated well, they can still live a beautiful and fulfilling life. You honestly need to take a step back and think about what you’re saying.
I feel a lot for obi wan. He was not ready to take on a padawan, because he was barely a Jedi himself and was still dealing with the grief of literally watching his master die in front of him. He wasn’t old enough to be a father figure, but he felt obligated by his promise to Qui Gon. The Jedi religion used both of them badly and kinda denied their issues.
We also have the Clone War tv show where we can see Obi Wan trying his best to guide Anakin but sometimes gives flaw advice. the Jedi during the Clone Wars were super flawed on how they ran things. So that didn't help things.
@@Zeroknight34 Exactly and you can see he's trying to give advice, but all he knows is what the Jedi taught him, so it doesn't work. What kills me is how much Anakin felt Obi-Wan didn't care enough or noticed how much pain he was in and so he turned to Palpatine because he felt Obi-Wan (and by product the Jedi) wouldn't/couldn't help him. In reality, Obi-Wan cared too much for Anakin but didn't know how to help him
It's very telling that Obi Wan always refers to Anakin as his "brother," while Anakin says that Obi Wan is "the closest thing he has to a father." Obi Wan was able to be a companion for Anakin (which Anakin also very much needed), but he wasn't able to be a true mentor, but that's what Anakin and everyone else expected him to be.
And also some of the content not directly includded in the films themselves definitely makes you more sympathetic to Obi-Wan. I don't know how much of this is necessarily canon, but he was a leader in a civil war with a bunch of other child soldiers when he was around 13 years old. He was bullied by some other initiates when he was young, and had to watch one of the bullies die during a duel. In one of the books, Obi-Wan wasn't initially chosen as a padawan and was shipped off to the AgriCops, with the specific place he was sent turning out to be a slave operation. Not to mention the trauma of losing Qui-Gon in the first place, and his last words not even acknowledging Obi-Wan at all. Like Qui-Gon's final interaction with his padawan was emphasizing the importance of this kid he barely knew. If you include some of the contents of the books in your character analysis, it makes that moment even worse, because in those Qui-Gon initially rejected taking Obi-Wan as his padawan. It's pretty fucked up, and Obi-Wan's got plenty of his own demons, we just don't see them as much.
Obi wan was a Big Bro and not a father, which is detrimental eswpcIlly when you need that figure over your life to lead you and shape you, he tried his best but Anakin was full of pain and anger and the order strict rules at the time did NOT help and Anakin was taken in as a child when the padawans are supposed to learn when their young so they can be used to the life of a Jedi
Well, younger Obi Wan even outright stated Anakin was like a brother to him. Pity that either through Obi Wan's unintentional negligence or Anakin's own lack of self-trust and lacking judge of character, Anakin found a father figure in the emperor... but it was an abusive and manipulative step-father. The emperor never cared about him, other than him being an obedient means to an end.
Meaning if Qui Gon survived he would’ve remained as the father figure and thus palpatine wouldn’t have had as much influence over him. That’s why Palpatine was so intent on maul killing hin
5:10 this is exactly the reason why I and so many others absolutely adored Star Wars the Clone Wars. It's astounding how much they did with Anakin's character and personality. The fleshed out backstory, aswell as Anakin's deeds as the hero of the Clone Wars really was a big point that would have played perfectly into us feeling heartbroken over Anakin's betrayal
I absolutely think it makes sense why Padme was so drawn to Anakin and fell in love with him! While I completely agree that he's extremely insecure in his self image, he is also extremely emotionally vulnerable with Padme privately and in dire situations AND also presents very confidently ~and~ visibly is a very skilled Jedi. She's normally in a world of politics, and the men she'd been with before were all secretive, had political motivations, and were not like Anakin, who prioritizes her and her feelings in many ways consistently throughout the Clone Wars and during the Attack of the Clones era of their relationship. Anakin was just providing something in his emotional vulnerability and confident pursuit of her that she wanted and was thrilled by. Anyway, this is a fantastic analysis of Anakin -- I think Padme would be worth an analysis herself. :)
Padme was an enabler. Counting the Clone Wars, she rarely pushed back. And the few times she did it nearly, or did, end in disaster. Anakin was used to getting his way. Their relation was always doomed to fail.
@@saphiriathebluedragonknight375 I always thought their relationship had the dynamic of one partner taking care of the other like a child. It's based in pity. Pity isn't a strong foundation for a relationship. My ex's mom was an alcoholic and a druggie. She once beat him to the point where one of his ribs nearly punctured his heart. We really only stayed together because I felt sorry for him. A relationship based in pity is doomed to fail.
@@devinreis5811 honestly, staying on the topic of star wars, that's kind of how I felt about Reylo. I like what we got in the movies, but I felt like the only thing Kylo Ren going for him was his attractiveness and patheticness, so even if he'd survived, their relationship would've been doomed.
@@devinreis5811 your wrong! Have you ever met someone with BPD? We are anything but boring. Our all or nothing behavior as we push and rage against the dying of the light does not inspire pity! Compassion is not pity! Do not jump to shallow conclusions. People are rarely just one thing. Our madness and intensity, our belief in something beyond man's fallen state, Is worth more than your quick and dismissive analysis.
Jonathan, hearing you say "If you have BPD, you have my sympathies. It's hell, you didn't ask for it," made me tear up. I was so insulted when a therapist told me he thought I had BPD, because "BPD" brings to mind the kind of violent, homicidal, psychotic person few would be proud to be associated with. But he wasn't wrong, especially with the criteria presented in the video. Thanks to my partner, who I still have no idea why he's with me, but after 13 years I've stopped doubting and questioning, and his unconditional love, I know I've gotten better. I guess my point is, treating us like people instead of some caricature can do so much, even just in that moment. It won't magically cure us, but damn does it abate the self-loathing for a little while.
I was diagnosed with BPD when I was 16 or 17 (cant remember specifically) & the guy who diagnosed me said "let's not worry about that cause we cant fix that, let's focus on your depression". That delayed my process on learning to cope back by YEARS until I remembered about my diagnosis at 20 & actually started to learn about it. It was so heartbreaking to hear & theres so much stigma in the community about BPD. Ive heard of therapists & psychologists turning away BPD patients because we're "difficult". I had to teach myself how to cope & live with my BPD. I'm so glad you guys are spreading awareness of this 🙏🏼
Same. My BPD was also brushed under the rug of my depression. And now as an adult, I do not know how to cope with the onslaught of emotions; I don't know how to form healthy attachments; I just don't know how to cope.
I'm so sorry to hear you had that experience. BPD is intense, especially when the professionals, who are supposed to be helping you work towards your best interests, just don't want to. It's infuriating, and I don't even have BPD. Still, BPD hits close to home for me because an ex of mine suffered from it. I don't talk to him anymore, for a number of reasons, but I still love him, and I've been happy to hear from someone we both know that he's doing well.
Is there any ressources (to inform or for methods to live with it) you could share or most important tips you could give? Getting therapy over here is so slow and such a hassle. And while I don't feel like it burderns me too much, I wanna do what little things I can to learn to live more healthy.
I'm 40 now, was first diagnosed when I was 14 and then at age 33 again. As of now my therapist wouldn't diagnose me with BPD anymore, because I have learned so much and I'm able to regulate my emotions way better, no more self harm and all that. What helped? First the motivation to not spend the rest of my life living like that, hating myself and basically wanting to destroy myself. I remember vividly six years ago after a really bad self harming episode, that I was just done with it. I remember thinking "this stops now." and it has till today. I'm not loving myself, most of the time not even liking me, but I created a cease fire that day and everything I have learned from DBT and schema therapy helped to make that happen. Trust me, if you want to get better, it will get better. I was told that BPD would be a life sentence and that I would never be able to overcome it, but I did. It took me a long time, but I did.
@@TeaquestSagas unfortunately, I dont have any specific resources. To be honest, I watched a lot of videos on TH-cam of people who have BPD discussing what helped them & therapists discussing BPD symptoms. I googled articles & things like that on my symptoms. I listed out all the symptoms that I had & went through them one by one on how to cope with each. I had a lot of conversations with people who know me well enough to help me get an outside perspective. But the biggest help for me was to teach myself to speak & think in grey areas instead of black & white. (If you're in the BPD community, a lot of us call this "splitting"). Also avoiding "you" statements when expressing myself. For example, I stopped saying things like "you always ignore my feelings" and changed it to "I feel like most of the time you don't take my emotions as seriously and that really hurts me". It helped my interpersonal relationships SO MUCH & prevented so many breakdowns from simple miscommunications. When I start splitting I try to reason with myself. If I think "why does this person always ignore my texts?" I will take a breath & think "is it really ALWAYS? are they really doing it on purpose? They're most likely just busy." Its hard to explain everything in one comment, but those where a couple of the biggest things for me cause they keep me grounded in reality.
As someone with BPD I now understand why I empathized with Anakin so much. Not the evil part obviously lol, but the moodiness, mood swings, fear of abandonment, recklessness and other things you touched upon. Thank you so much for this video! We need more of this kind of thing.
oh, if you put it that way... maybe i do relate to him a bit, too. but the path he chose and the passions he fell to - that's just not excusable by BPD.
I was like 9 when Phantom came out. I felt VERY strongly for Anakin's situation. I've been homeless with my single mom. I've seen real demons knocking on the the door, helpless to do anything as I watched a violent man try to murder my mom. I ABSOLUTELY understand Anakin's mindset as he grew up, went to 'essentially' a boarding school that wasn't prepared to care for him, and his choices as he grew and finally had the physical strength to protect the people he loved. His feeling of helplessness when even as a grown man, was still too weak to save his mom. Anakin's emotional and mental problems were learned, taught. Obi-Wan was a great mentor, but he wasn't the mentor Anakin needed. Where Anakin needed Qui-Gon's calm guidance, another calm, caring figure, Palpatine, took his place. From a hand on his shoulder at the end of Phantom, to love advice, to being told the simple truth to follow your heart. Palpatine was really good at twisting good advice to his own ends. Anyway, Prequel trilogy > Boomer trilogy
Yes! I watched it, and suddenly "Revenge of the Sith" was so much better. Everything in it just clicked. Anakin at that point was a man who had gone through trauma after trauma, in a religious order that told him to bury his emotions, instead of giving him the tools he needed to process it and heal from it. On top of that, they threw him into a position of authority in a civil war, gave him a student who basically became his adopted daughter, and then accused her of treason and turned on her, and demanded that he back them on that. He lost almost everyone he cared about, but I really think that everything that happened with Ahsoka is what really broke him. He wasn't able to protect his daughter, no wonder he started freaking out about his wife being pregnant. Add visions of everyone he loved suffering and dying, and Yoda brushing him off, and you have a recipe for one seriously messed up guy.
@@kimberlyrodrigues2998 yes exactly! Clone Wars made him a likable character and made him everything we had all wanted him to be in the movies. It's honestly difficult watching episode 2, seeing him be whiney and annoying, then seeing him be a confident bad ass general throughout the Clone Wars, making deep relationships with Obi and the clones like Rex, and then go back go Episode 3 and seeing him be just insufferable. They seem like two different characters. Ep. 2 and 3 show the exact same annoying character. Clone Wars shows us how it should've been.
How many people are out there feeling like they are Anakin? I know people are disgusted with the sympathizers but I feel like that's cause of the genocidal outlook
@@nestorsifuentesaguirre2722Is a jedi civil war really more hideous than betraying the ones you love (altho one was on accident...sorta) plus enforcing an empire? Yet we still simpatize with him because of how it all went down and what he went through
As a person with BPD, before I was diagnosed I never understood why people disliked Anakin Skywalker. I always related to him. Even more now that I am diagnosed. Thank you for being understanding that we are not monsters!
@@TheAwesomeDarkNinja no he wasn't. He was just a kid at the time who showed he wanted respect and approval from the hero he admired. Just like Anakin, they clearly needed help. and neither one got the help they needed. Buddy was intellectually gifted. If guided and supported by a great support group.....at worse.... we're just looking at getting Disney Tony Stark before Tony Stark™ became Disney. Not all superheroes have the typical "Boy Scout" clean image Clark Kent and Steve Rogers give off. Some are a bit rough and unpolished.....but deep down, they just want to help and be accepted. Unfortunately, we don't know enough about buddy's life to know what caused that massive loss of morality. But, with a good support system of people, these two would have thrived.
@@Tentegen Mr Incredible only didn't want Buddy to be his sidekick because he was a kid and didn't know what he was doing and his malfunctioning rocket boots nearly got them both killed. It was Buddy who thought "You only don't want me to help you because I don't have powers." And given what he did as Syndrome, having heroes killed just so the Omnidroid could mimic their powers just so he could look like a hero by destroying it showed that even as a kid he only wanted to be a hero for attention and publicity not to help people.
"Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Passion can lead to rage and fear and can be controlled. But passion is not the same thing as love. Controlling your passions while being in love, THAT is what the Jedi should teach you damnit. But love itself will save you, not condemn you." -Jolee Bindo, Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic
@@sithman5000 A little late but imagine being born not only into a clan of people who value wickedness as a religion but also being a male in this clan effectively makes you a second class citizen, even if your mother is the head of this clan. Then you're hawked off by said mother to the most evil person ever just so there can be some kind of loose peace between factions. From that point you're conditioned to live in perpetual hatred with the vague promise if you submit to this you'll be destined for greatness. Then when it's finally time to prove yourself, it leads to you be horribly injured with said mentor completely abandoning you. The only way you're able to survive is to fully lose yourself to misery, surviving off literal garbage and the anger towards the person who did this to you for over a decade. Finally when your brother (and mother) finds you, restores your sanity, and you begin to taste a little bit of that success you were promised from the very start, suddenly your old master comes back, kills your family, and strips you of your gains forcing you to lead a petty crime family from the shadows until that's somehow ripped away from you too. Is Maul a Sociopath? Most likely... definitely... but there's also probably more to it.
Thank you for not vilifying people with BPD. Yes, there are people with BPD who do bad things and are toxic. But there are people with other disorders (NPD, PTSD, etc) who do bad things and are toxic, as well. There are groups out there dedicated to BPD hate that push the mindset of "All people with BPD are monsters." It's a terrible disorder to live with due to the complexity, the lack of understanding and the stigmas around it.
Especially the lack of understanding. All behaviours look irrational towards others because they don't understand how we feel so deeply and intensely all of the time.
There also are "normal" (neurotypical etc.) people who do bad things and are toxic - just mentioning this because the discussion made it sound otherwise (unintentionally, I am sure). :)
Even people without personality disorders can do bad things and are toxic. The reason people with personality disorders act the way they do is because they lived through trauma and they are constantly being triggered. If they are behaving in a toxic and manipulative way, it's because that's what they learnt from their parents or caregivers.
Saying that someone that has a personality disorder is a monster is like calling blacks monsters. You’re just pointing at what you don’t know and don’t understand and calling it a monster.
Thank you for approaching this topic with empathy. May is mental health awareness month, and everyone will spend it saying "stop stigma", but often BPD and other personality disorders don't get considered. People who don't have BPD may not be aware of this, but finding a therapist who will treat a person with BPD is very difficult. So telling someone "get therapy" isn't helpful. The stigma is so bad that people don't realize there are four types of BPD, and because you need 5 out of 9traits for a diagnosis there's about 256 variations. And it's more a spectrum of how they present. So, while the media presents us like Anikan, a lot of us actually are nothing like that. But, mental health professionals and society refuse to change how they see us. Videos and discussions like this are vital in ending stigma. Prefacing at the beginning that not everyone with BPD is like Anakin (and actually people with BPD are statistically more often the victims of abuse) and closing with acknowledging that it isn't something we asked for, and calling on those who care about someone with BPD to be consistent and loving helps end stigma. That all being said, don't stay in a situation that is dangerous. Don't sacrifice yourself in the effort to try and save someone. While people with BPD, and mental illnesses in general, are no more dangerous than the general population, that doesn't mean there aren't situations that develop into abusive relationships. You can't save people. They have to want to save themselves. By being consistent and empathetic you can show them they are worthy of saving themselves, but please don't deny yourself a healthy life. And if you just can't find empathy for people with BPD or other mental illnesses, please don't add to the stigma. Don't stick around and bully us. And if you were abused by someone with BPD or another mental illness, please don't demonize the rest of us for the failings of someone else. I'm sorry they hurt you, and you didn't deserve it. But I don't deserve to be denied my humanity because of them. You aren't helping people by "warning" them about BPD. All you're doing is making it more difficult for us to get treatment and stop the vicious cycle.
There's lierally someone in the comments saying that all mental health issues can basically be cured through meditation, and the Jedi teaching was right because all fear and anger result from attachments which can be meditated away. :( I know.
Finding a therapist is very difficult indeed. The therapist I've had for years brushed me off when I came to him after noticing virtually every symptom of BPD in myself. He said depression and anxiety were enough to explain what was happening. I feel like people try to pretend this disorder doesn't exist.
I'm extremely surprised you aren't recognizing Anakin's PTSD! He's definitely been through traumatic stress and it really hurts him, that's why the whole "I hate sand," line even happens. He is remembering nothing but the pain he had on his home planet, and being reminded of his nightmares of his mother dying.
Well there is a debate amongst psychologists on the differences and similarities between bpd and c-ptsd so it’s not weird for you to say this ha theres debate on if they’re the same thing or not.
That doesn’t equal PTSD. That equals trauma. Extreme trauma doesn’t always equal PTSD. Repeated trauma doesn’t always equal PTSD. The term PTSD is thrown around way too much these days.
C-PTSD with comorbid BPD is probably the closest to Anakin’s diagnosis, particularly in the movies. I’ve seen a handful of people say NPD, but, like, Anakin always feels too helpless and unworthy to accomplish anything great himself. I’m not saying that people with NPD couldn’t have BPD and C-PTSD, too, especially considering Anakin came from slavery, but he *never* mentions anything about wanting world domination before going dark. Even after he *does* go dark, he’s *only* ever asking people about overthrowing the Emperor and helping him rule the galaxy when he really feels like they could be a healthier attachment for him (Luke, Padme, Ahsoka, if you count TCW). Otherwise, he goes back to being Sidious’s obedient attack dog/murder slave because he doesn’t think he has a choice, he feels he deserves it for pushing away his family and friends, and safe escape and healthy support options are limited to nonexistent for him. While people with NPD do absolutely get jealous, crave power, and crave validation, they usually pretend like they don’t need love, support, and validation. They’ll tell themselves they can accomplish amazing things by themselves, attempt to do it, and THEN seek out validation/narcissistic supply. Even as Vader, Anakin is never in denial about wanting unconditional companionship, love, and support, and some sort of rescuer/guide to defer to. It’s why he sticks with the Emperor for as long as he does. Yeah, I know his strength is physically compromised, so it’s not this easy thing to kill Sidious anymore, but Vaderkin managed to do it in ROTJ,. If he really wanted to overthrow him and take over the galaxy himself, he could, but he doesn’t, though I think in some Legends material, he considers it. If he were really NPD, I feel like he would be more confident to kill Sidious himself, and then seek out adoration, compliance, validation, and support. I feel like he wouldn’t be able to live under an authority figure who openly treated him like garbage for 23 years, if he was NPD. An argument can also be made that when he’s asking Padme, Luke, and Ahsoka (if you count TCW as canon) to help him overthrow the Emperor and rule the galaxy, it’s not really world domination he’s interested in obtaining, but freedom from his abuser/oppressor. That’s what it always seemed like to me in the movies. As for wanting to rule the galaxy and help run a dictatorship, well, the Jedi/Republic Anakin grew up in wasn’t really a true democracy. It was a self-serving one that he saw left his people in the dust in slavery on the outer rims because they weren’t important to their “greater good.” Qui Gonn only took any interest at all in freeing little Anakin from slavery because he had a vision that this boy would destroy the Sith and bring balance to the force someday. Yoda more or less ran the Jedi Order like a dictatorial cult when he was growing up and made the recruits use the clones as slaves. The Jedi Order and Palpatine bred arrogance, cold and righteous violence against enemies, entitlement to power, moral hypocrisy, and exclusivity too, so any sort of those traits Anakin may have picked up he seems to have learned from Yoda, Obi-Wan, Palpatine, and the Jedi Council. It could look like NPD, but people with C-PTSD also learn to cope unhealthily by picking up traits of their abusers/oppressors to try to survive in those abusive relationships and environments when escape seems unlikely, which it always is for Anakin. The Jedi are like, “Oh, we get to be in a special soldier order and run the military of the Republic if we have a high midichlorian count. Normal human emotions of anger, love, desire for a personal life, fear, pity, and sympathy are ‘dangerous’ and ‘above us,’ so we’ll teach our recruits to suppress them and live in total denial of them. We can’t trust the Republic Senate with our information, but we’ll enable and perpetuate their corrupt and oppressive practices and crime, let them stay in power to keep our own power, and we’ll attempt to overthrow the head of the Senate we suspect to be a Sith ourselves by attempting to use Anakin as spy because he’s the only one the Chancellor likes and because we’re the only ones smart and worthy enough to handle them. The rest of the Senate is too narrow minded. Our way of life is never wrong and never toxic!” They’re not as bad as the Sith, but they’re still very emotionally/psychologically abusive and oppressive, blindly extremist, self-righteous, and morally hypocritical before Luke. I think the whole “Chosen one” belief could play into a C-PTSD symptom. Obi-Wan, Yoda, Qui-Gonn, and the Jedi Council, his abusers/oppressors spent 14 years telling him he was meant to bring balance to the force and destroy the Sith, so he may be reaching out with that whole “Rule the galaxy” proposal in the hopes that he can still achieve that from within. There’s also the fact that I’m certain the Jedi Council, particularly Obi Wan, guilt tripped Anakin into staying with the Order when he started getting disillusioned and seriously contemplated leaving before the war got underway in TCW. A lot of fans are like “the chosen one title went to Anakin’s head because of Qui Gonn,” but Anakin actually *never* mentions it to try to get special treatment or favors from Obi Wan and the Council or skates by on it. Overconfident/arrogant in his skills and power level that he still obtained through hard works as a Jedi? Yes, at times. That is one of his flaws. Feeling entitled to special treatment from Obi Wan, Sidious, and the Council because he was the “chosen one?” Not really. If anything, by the time TCW comes around, Anakin’s getting tired of being labeled the “chosen one” and doesn’t want all these responsibilities that Yoda is forcing on him because he has been becoming disillusioned by his, Obi Wan’s and the Jedi Council’s bs and wants to leave. Yet, he keeps being made to feel obligated to stay by Obi Wan, Yoda, the Council, and even Padme because they’re still all he has left, he doesn’t want to let them down, and they keep wanting him to be their hero. Anakin’s fatal flaw was that he was too afraid to stand up to corrupt authority figures and lose the limited support system he had until he broke by Revenge Of The Sith. Anakin/Vader also has really strong Stockholm Syndrome mixed with revenge fantasies alternating in regards to Watto, Obi-Wan, and especially Palpatine/Sidious, who were his primary abusers/oppressors throughout his life. Sometimes, he’ll defend their abuse of him, their crimes, their hypocrisy, and feel like he deserves it or “it’s for the greater good” because that’s what they tell him. Other times, he’ll intensely hate them, fantasize about revenge, but very rarely ever goes through with it. It’s a symptom of C-PTSD to feel a sense of duty to fulfill the expectations of abusers/oppressors. Then, there’s just his whole learned helplessness, slave mindset, and reliving of trauma/emotional flashbacks. He started his life as a slave, never fully recovered from it, and the authority figures he is under in Jedi Order and Sidious both exacerbate that slave mindset in him as his abusers/oppressors. In some comics, he tries to bring Padme back from the dead in the Vader suit. He even builds his castle on Mustafar with the specific intent to bring her back. Those are all very C-PTSD like symptoms. Sometimes, he’ll be very emotionally unstable, manic, and commit crimes blindly in a dissociative rage. Other times, he’ll be fully aware of what he’s doing, and come across as calm, cold, and self-aware in his anger when he commits crimes. It alternates back-and-forth, though he becomes more publicly self-controlled and calm after getting put in that suit. In ESB and ROTJ in particular of the OT series, you see that mania and instability that was more apparent in Anakin as a young adult come to the surface in his attempts to reach out to Luke. In “A New Hope,” he recklessly force chokes one of his men to death because their disrespect and insubordination make him angry in the heat of the moment. That’s not something most good people would do, regardless of emotional/mental health, but it’s also not something a calm, collected, methodical, premeditated, and stable serial killer would do either, which a lot of fans seem to misinterpret Anakin having become as Vader after being put in that suit. Yeah, he learns better self-control and his capacity for empathy has been greatly diminished after years of being on the dark side, being broken by Sidious, no longer having Padme or any other friends, not being allowed to have anyone else but Sidious, and submitting himself to be Sidious’s attack dog/murder slave. However, at his core, he is still Anakin. While he does have occasional bursts of jealousy and possessiveness in regards to his relationships with other people, it usually is centered on fear of abandonment, rather than jealousy over someone else being more powerful in the force, more rich, and more successful. Disney has been retconning this recently to prop up Obi-Wan, but in the original canon, Anakin/Vader was more of the insecure attachment jealous/possessive type of a BPD, rather than the shallow narcissistic jealous type who gets jealous over status, success, and wealth.
@@TomoInAMask Thanks! It’s also worth noting that the dark side is like a drug that increases antisocial traits, grandiose power fantasizing, and/or twists what would otherwise be positive ones on-and-off-again in people who become addicted to it. Before going dark, Anakin did have some power-hunger in him, but it was in a desire for protection of loved ones, himself, and freedom from oppression for himself and the slaves on his planet in a world that was constantly oppressing him. It became a bit obsessive, but never once was he talking about wanting to be rich, famous, and/or have world domination before going dark. It was about trying to gain safety because the odds were always against him whenever he DID try to stand up and do the right thing, anyway. Then, after going dark, fantasies about unlimited power do come up on a few rare occasions, but only when he sees Luke, Padme, or Ahsoka as potential rescuers for a moment, only to go back into subservience to Sidious when they say no. Otherwise, he’ll spend time having Stockholm Syndrome with Sidious or having revenge fantasies against him. I see some people saying NPD, but people with NPD also usually know how to gain power over their abusers by being superficially charming and cunning as adults. Anakin really isn’t that, not even as Vader. Anakin, while also becoming a perpetrator of abuse and crime against others out of fear of Obi-Wan, Jedi Council, and the Emperor, is also always in a situation where he’s being abused, manipulated, and oppressed by one of those people/groups of people who all have very arrogant, in-denial, and power hungry traits themselves. It is why I think any sort of arrogance, being in-denial, or power-hunger he seems to display could be a trauma based response to dealing with consistently abusive, manipulative, and oppressive authority figures from whom escape seems unlikely, particularly after getting put into the suit, but even before that, Anakin always is a slave in his mind.
As someone who has a parent diagnosed with BPD this tracks. Also why I ended up dating someone who also has BPD. Saw you mention is it Dr Ramani in another episode, and her videos discussing BPD are really good. As a lot of people with BPD don't stick with their therapy, as they will need lifelong. They also find it difficult because therapy can be painful, and when you struggle with your emotions, it can be too much. Or at least that is the case for the people I know with BPD, they both ended up vilifying the therapists because they set boundaries.
The self harm is actually seen in Anakin as Vader when he fuels his power in the dark side. He gets stronger through his hatred and pain. While in his suit every movement snags his skin and causes immense pain. There a lot more of self harm as Vader I can't really list it all.
And the sound of his respirator kept him awake at night. Also, it was designed to need invasive maintenance; you'd have to take apart whole sections of the suit to fix a minor problem
but that was Palpatines fault rather them his own self hatred Palpatine was the one who designed his suit to be painful not himself so it doesn't really count
I read somewhere that he also designed it to need frequent maintenance from specialists in the Empire's pay as well as being uncomfortable which I can well believe. Given the tech that exists in the Star Wars universe I think they could have done a lot more to fix Anakin's broken body. Hell they could transplant his brain/consciousness into a clone body like Palpatine himself did to resurrect himself in the old canon. They just chose not to because it kept Vader dependent on the Empire and the chronic pain fuelled his darker emotions.
@@whytho1534 Palpatine plays the role of abusive narcissistic sociopath who uses the BPD person and does everything which is possible to keep the BPD person dependent on them and suffering instead of healing and moving on.
A lot of reasons, in short humans can't be logical 100% of the time especially where emotions are involved, which is why the Jedi have a healthy fair of them. Love makes evil actions reasonable. Also it was revenge for his mother who was tortured, also sand people aren't considered sentient like human and other humanoids are. Also objectively, everyone of us is related to barbarians and cold-blooded killers in our ancestry, hell history is full of them
@@robertmiller9735 sand "people" she has never met, only heard of in the context of Shmi's kidnapping and torture. So that's not really an argument that can be made against her.
Actually you could argue that Anakin is into self-harm. When he's Vader he's offered an upgrade in his suit, to be more agile and it would ease up on his pain. But he purposely chooses his run down suit because he's in constant pain, making his power from the dark side become more powerful
You never know when someone is trying to combat depression and suicidal thoughts especially for men when they’re forced to shove those emotions away, support your family (which Anakin mistakenly couldn’t do) like imagine having visions of your wife’s death thinking that you can control it by becoming what the vision means.
There was another reason Vader turned down upgrading his suit. To fully be transferred to the new suit, Vader would have to be taken off life support, leaving him extremely vulnerable.
I am so grateful for this episode. Most of videos I see about bpd just portrays it as being horrible person and that there is no hope. I have bpd and hearing all of this negative things makes me me feel even worse. It’s good to see someone not saying you are horrible for ones
I'm homeless, broke, and hopeless I can't afford therapy but this...this video as well as the loki video and strangely the megamind video have really helped me. Not expecting a response but I really wanna say I appreciate what you two are doing and I hope to see more.
hey friend. its a couple minths later, but us fellow cinema therapy watchers are rooting for you! be the best there is in whatever you do and youll make it
I was diagnosed at 24 but I was 16 when this movie came out. I had never related to a characters emotions more fiercely. It's now as an adult that I can see it's because I was developing and exhibiting BPD. Since then Anakin has been my favourite character, ever. Also, know that you can get better and although it can feel utterly helpless at times with BPD, you are not alone, and there are always people out there, myself included who would rather have you reach out in any moment then suffer in silence. Too many times I've done that, believing the lies BPD forces us to tell ourselves. There is hope
I'm sorry you're having a hard time. I just want you to know that you're an individual. A diagnosis is great for helping to find tools and support that have worked for other people with similar traits, but remember it's just a template. There is only one you and you're in charge of your own fate. Congrats on seeking out help and support though, it isn't easy. Usually people with bpd have been through some stuff so remember how strong you are. I'm sure you're an amazing person and I know you deserve unconditional love.
As someone with BPD ive always struggled watching the star wars movies for this exact reason, if the character wasnt created with the illness in mind then its shocking how well he fits the bill
Honestly this video made me realise how I liked Anakin so much and how I related to him. It just makes sense when someone says he’s showing BPD symptoms. Also...... it feels like a callout video to me 💀💀
I am a combat veteran and I noticed from the many therapists and psychologists I've had over the years that I also am on the border of Borderline Personality Disorder, on top of PTSD, Anxiety Disorder and Depression. I can identify with Anakin.
"Will you truly stay, cause I can't feel safe about you in my life until I know you'll stay. So I have to push you hard to see if you will." ... My god that hit so close to home.
I have my issues with the prequels but Anakin's character is one of things I admire a lot about them. He's not a cut and paste protagonist, and his downfall isn't meant to be sudden or even tragic. The whole story is the tragedy, not just the part where he becomes Vader. He was doomed from the start, and the audience is watching a train wreck and there's nothing they can do about it. Anakin's fall was probably not a surprise to anyone who knew him, even Obi-Wan and Padme. I think deep down, if they are honest with themselves they would be like "yeah this makes a lot of sense"
I completely agree. They never made Anakin the perfect hero in the prequels and that made him more relatable and lead to a much more understandable transition. He wasn't corrupted by Palpatine. He was encouraged and influenced by him. Anakin's character never changed, only his actions. And his actions were highly influenced by other's approval and advice.
I used to date someone with Borderline Personality Disorder. She did some messed up stuff. I didn't know how to handle the situations she would cause. It was just a horrible a experience. I hope she was able to get the help that she needed. It was a much needed lesson of patience and learning to let go for me.
My ex would do the same and she would play victim afterwards and I didn't know how to handle it and after 6 months of this I grew tired of it and annoyed so I ditched her.
I had a close friend who had it, and I didn't know how to draw effective boundaries. I just didn't have the assertiveness skills at the time. And let me tell you, it was tough. It eventually blew up in my face and were not friends anymore but I know much of it wasn't her fault and I do wish her the best
I am currently in a relationship with someone with bpd. Her emotions are so hard to soften, but I manage to do it almost every time. I fear the day I will not be able to help, or the day she explodes on me... but I also see her "sparks", which are exactly what Vader does in the end. And those sparks are magnificents.
@@mimoune5778 That's how it was with this girl I was close with, she was super chill one minute, the next it was like riding the crazy bus straight into Nut Town.
I just realized that Anakin's character trajectory is very similar to Arthur Fleck's in The Joker: both were mentally ill people whom the system failed, they didn't get the therapy and help CLEARLY needed. And both of them eventually snapped.
It's hard to stay calm sometimes. That doesn't negate all the other times he did stay calm. He was still learning and developing his strength of patience. It's a process.
The difference here is that Luke realized what was happening and calmed himself down. Did he cut of his Dad's hand? Yes. But he didn't kill him. Anakin did not have that kind of emotional control. Luke was showing him that yes, he also can get mad. But he can also stop. Anakin crossed the line Luke gave him. Luke gave him the consequences, but showed he still loved him.
I am *so* glad I clicked on this. I was intrigued by the topic and was instantly drawn in by your delivery, content, and quality. -a physician in the midwest
As someone with BPD, it sucks that most representation are villains, but I'm glad that they exsist. I'm glad they exsist as a talking point so people like you two can bring this condition to light and breathe life and humanity into the condition. It's a struggle being seen as only the villian, or crazy, or some killer.
yes. Every human is capable of horrible things, mentally ill or not; at the same time, people would never break like this if they had the support and care they needed from the start. I love that not only do they breathe humanity into these villains, but they also directly state: to prevent someonee from getting to this point, *this is exactly what we could do*. To save someone who's already at this point, *there is something we can do*. Instead of just passing people off as unfixable "because they're villains", they guys literally state outright; this condition can be helped. These traumas can be healed. This personality disorder can be recovered from. This illness needs treatment. Nobody just "decides to turn evil". There is always a pattern of societal failures and betrayals that leads up to violence. People just want to ignore the obvious warning signs to be able to say "oh it's just *that* kind of person, *they* are always bad". I adore this channel :)
honestly, some of the best characters out there are villains. heroes are just an idealistic representation of what a person can be, and sometimes it's impossible to reach that ideal. but villains... are real. they experience every emotion, every struggle. they're not perfect and not ideal, but they're real. and we can learn from them as well. we can choose to perpetuate their good things, and learn how to avoid/change the bad ones.
I havent been diagnosed yet with BPD (due to having little to no money to pay for a therapist), but my mother (who has been diagnosed with BPD) believes that I do have BPD. I always thought I was a bad person for relating to villains so much, but the fact that the ones I relate to have BPD symptoms makes me feel less like a horrible person.
@@septicember I just want to add, that BPD is a lot like alcoholism in that if the person isn't willing to get help, or change their behaviors, that its very easy to end up enabling them in not getting help, for BPD they can become energy vampires. I had one who when told by a psychologist she was codependent, tried to make it out to be a "love language" that I needed to accommodate and didn't see is as a problem that needed to be fixed. (And she never once tried to accommodate my love languages). There's nothing we can do for a person who is too terrified to change. Also, I was dealing with my own trauma so the clinging, was seriously triggering to me. So, just because someone needs help, doesn't mean you're the one with the tools to do so.
Love Anakin Skywalker, by far my favorite star wars character alongside Darth Vader. I dont hate people who hate the prequels because I get their criticism, however I believe they are no where near as bad as people make out to be, same goes with Hayden's acting as Anakin was perfect. One thing this video definitely points out - How well written Luke's character was in the OT.
One of my step kids has bpd. It was a long tough battle, I met her around 5, and things started getting rough in her early teens.. The book, and the words "I hate you, don't leave me" completely changed my life in regards to living with and loving someone with bpd.
Given how hyper excited he always got whenever he discovered he had kids, running around loudly declaring to everyone and everything that I HAVE A SON!!, I'd say he probably just had a strong love for family :)
Someone once pointed out that Leia is Anakin's daughter: Passion, fire, a certain degree of ruthlessness and Luke is Padme's son: love, compassion and faith in Anakin.
Which is even sadder since Luke says he has no memory of his mother while Leia has vague memories of her, despite the fact they were both born a few seconds apart.
"With a kick that hard? Definitely a girl." - Ani
I still don't know how nobody knew Padme was pregnant. Boyfriend: "That's because Obi-Wan knew snitches get stitches."
If anyone has the right to be angry, it's Leia, but she handles it better than the men.
Love that moment in the old EU where Leia is visited by Anakin's force ghost and 100% coldly rejects him.
LOL “no, no catharsis is NOT killing people, let’s go over this again” literally sounds like how Anakin’s therapy session would go 🤣
*screams while destroying medical droids*
@@MitchBoucherComposer the therapist: "...it's a start."
@@inkvixen3141 Or you could say... "this is where the improvement begins!"
Anakin: From my point of view killing is not evil.
Lightsabers his way out of the room.
@@Xehanort10 "Well, Master, the negotiations *were* short."
This whole movie just reminds me of the saying "The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth". the jedi council were always so critical of Anakin and ended up causing their own demise.
He is the chosen one. He brought balance to the force. Jedi we’re over abundant and egoistic.
this quote resonates a lot with my childhood
The Jedi betrayed Anakin and justified his actions. Look for the video about that it’s really good
The Jedi at the time they fell were just a ghostly shell of what they were. They lost their way.
Anakin made a lot of poor choices himself; his feelings with Padme were possessive
Anakin: "Master Yoda, I think my wife is going to die and I'm terrified, please help"
Yoda, with disdain on his face: "If she dies, she dies"
That was what was best for Anakin. It was just not what Anakin wanted.
Yoda: "If you divorce your wife, then your wife can't die because you won't have a wife"
@martalaatsch8358 yoda: Wise, I am in many ways. listen, you should
@@JustSomePerson8 haha, yes, everyone says Yoda is so wise but his advice includes several full hours of restating the obvious, "don't love your mother", "don't be sad when people die", and "burn down the last remaining library of a nation that barely survived getting very efficiently genocided two generations ago"
@@martalaatsch8358 For that last one, Rey rescued the Jedi Texts before she left. You see them inside a compartment on the Millennium Falcon in a blink-and-you-miss-it moment. All Yoda destroyed was an empty, dead tree, and he knew it.
Any video that opens with "The emperor is kind of a sleazy boyfriend" is my kind of video.
They've got some cracking lines in this.
Seriously accurate.
That was comedy gold ahahahah
It... seems somewhat masturbatory or maybe it's about buried guilt...
I can’t think of a villain who both so obviously needed therapy, AND would have been genuinely responsive to it. Anakin WANTED help. The Jedi then, in their sage wisdom, told him to can it and just stop being afraid 👍🏻
It breaks my heart 😭😭😭 Anakin was a victim of circumstance
The prequel Jedi were assholes. Expecting people to shut down their emotions and blindly devote themselves to The Force, were told that grieving their dead loved ones was a bad thing even though it's perfectly natural, not being allowed to have spouses, kids and families because of the stupid "no attachments" thing and so on. At least in the original EU Luke's New Jedi Order did away with all those rules. Much better than the Disney Luke's "killed offscreen before we ever saw them" order.
Anakin ASKED for help. They failed him.
The horrible mindset of toxic masculinity causes so much damage. Luke seeing through it was like breaking the cycle, and I think it's so important that he didn't follow the wisdom of the past, because it benefited no one. He didn't believe that should be the Jedi way.
Anakin refused the support system he had at the time. The Jedi profess a philosophy similar to Buddhism that professes feeling and understanding emotions while managing them, and similarly to the Jedi, gives up attachment, defined as an unwillingness to accept reality and experiencing unhealthy posessiveness. The principles of Meditation inspire and inform the principles of Therapy, and clearly, the Jedi allowed consultation with elders and masters, so mental health was not tossed aside. The thing is that they didn't do an intervention either. Anakin chose to stay within the Jedi Order and then refused to properly understand the philosophy or respect the boundaries set, and he held a lot of resentment towards the Order for not adapting to his specific desires. I rather think he was never meant to be a Jedi and that both he and the Order should have recognized it earlier.
(I'm going to imput this as a personal comment on the video too, so if you see it repeated, you shall know why. XD)
It’s not a movie, but “Villain Therapy: Azula” is something I need to see in my subscriptions
th-cam.com/video/R4544ZUr_gA/w-d-xo.html Thank me later, it exists.
@@annailles8625 That one by Hello Future Me is good (although I think he misses the mark a tiny bit in some places); it would still be fun to see what Jonathan and Alan do with it. And of course Zuko's redemptive arc....
@@femailler22 100%
@@femailler22 Zuko's redemptive arc, for me, is THE MOST well-earned character development I have ever seen in fiction. I find his arc much more human than Aang's: watching Aang resolving the Ozai confrontation/conflict with peace and justice uplifts me, fills me with hope, but Zuko's transformation was fully cathartic.
@@Badz_B34chst4r Zuko's story is amazing. He never would have made it without Iroh. 😉
I feel bad for both Obi-Wan and Anakin. Obi-Wan was suddenly forced to train Anakin with little knowledge of how to do so, then Anakin, a traumatized kid who lost his mother then his father figure. They both bond but then they are forced to fight due to both of their mistakes. The scene where Obi-Wan fights Vader in Kenobi broke my heart.
And Obi-Wan has ALSO just lost his father figure when he’s suddenly thrust into this role with Anakin.
and i see it as an oversight by the council too. like yes, obi wan just killed a sith lord, but maybe not letting him take an apprentice so soon maybe?
@@stephantom8237 Exactly, I feel like by the time he met Luke he matured and wised up a bit and was a better mentor.
Cinema therapy should do a video on Obi-Wan Kenobi
I genuinely hate Obi Wan. Congrats on driving a disturbed kid insane. Who went on to be space Hitler. Don't know how worse you could screw up, even if it was on purpose
Fun fact, Vader's suit actually catches and snags his burned skin all the time, there were designs for him to have an improved suit but he chose to keep the old suit because his pain fueled his connection to the dark side, so he could technically qualify for self harm which would make 8/9 signs
Damn. Nice catch there
Actually the emperor hid said upgrades from him to keep him weak enough that he could control him but strong enough to beat anyone else. There were needles all over the suit that were to keep his nerves from dying I think? But he never knew about the upgrades I don’t think
@@jessehensley3179 he knew but the risks were of getting a new suit were very hughy
@@jessehensley3179 He knew but there was a high chance he would die during the upgrade so he turned down and only made adjustments to the current suit like tightening the grip or something else.
@@jessehensley3179 not just for not dying he was in constant pain and anger literally always in the most powerful emotion that attracts the dark side
"What we don't see in him is suicidal behavior or self-harm."
Hoo-boy, wait until you hear about how his Darth Vader suit works, the downsides to it, and how he actively refuses to even attempt to move to a more comfortable one for someone in his condition. I'd say actively choosing to live a life of absolute agony every second of the day would qualify as "self harm".
He thought he deserved the suffering for his failings and weaknesses. The pain also strengthens his sith rage and sith presence which was a vital part of him defeating majority of his foes in battle
I love the part in the ep 3 novelization and rise of darth vader books that mention what it feels to be anakin skywalker forever and how painful the suit is to Vader respectively
There's also that time Anakin first laid eyes on a Lightsaber and stuck it up to his eye
Not to mention, suicidal behavior isn't always direct self-injury. It can also mean engaging in risky or reckless behavior that has higher stakes of danger or taking more frequent risks involving dangerous circumstances. Throughout the prequels, Anakin does dangerous stunts that could have easily gotten him badly hurt or killed if they went sideways.
Ex. - his entire participation in the Podrace as a means of getting out of slavery (Phantom Menace)
Ex. - jumping from a moving, flying vehicle at high speed to pursue a bounty hunter (Attack of the Clones)
Ex. - basically the entire clone factory scene (Attack of the Clones)
Ex. - the failed attempt at rescuing Obi-Wan that resulted in the Coliseum battle scene (Attack of the Clones)
Ex. - charging headfirst towards Count Dooku instead of waiting and using teamwork like Obi-Wan instructed (Attack of the Clones)
Ex. - jumping over Obi-Wan despite Obi-Wan having the high ground in their duel on Mustafar (Revenge of the Sith)
(And the last one did result in grave harm that nearly killed him).
- - -
Also, notice how most of the examples are from Attack of the clones, when the death of his mother was recent and the psychological wound from that grief was still fresh.
It was also punishment from Palpatine.
Everyone who ever met Anakin Skywalker went "God what a mess, someone should do something" and no one ever did
EDIT: I'm sad that this is the top comment on this video, and it's a joke I stole from somewhere else.
Except for Luke but it was too late
@@melisveziroglu3542 Yes, Luke! And, although it was too late for the so many... it did end up saving the galaxy! Thanks for the reminder. What an example in the early Luke!
@@melisveziroglu3542 well it wasn’t too late. He got there in time for the chosen one to kill Palpatine and bring balance to the force.
@@everythingdibs344 yeah but too late as in he died the next second not too late for redemption
And he asked for help! He went to Yoda and even tried to talk to Obi Wan.... But all he got was a wishy washy: let it go. Accept it.
The way the Jedi treated Anakin was like telling a depressed person to just feel happier...
Except its worse because they knew Anakin was immensely important to the fate of the entire galaxy. But instead of making sure he grew up to be well-adjusted and not evil, they refused to make any exceptions for their Chosen One and just ignored all of his many, obvious issues. Meanwhile, a legitimate sociopath with multiple wives (Ki Adi Mundi) was allowed on the Council and the second highest ranking Jedi (Mace Windu) was openly hostile to Anakin.
Mundi wasn't a sociopath, he didn't love his wives, he only had kids with them because his species needed it to survive
@@calebbarnhouse496the wives aren’t the reason he’s considered a sociopath
@@foldingglint1514 it's a decent part, with clones he just didn't consider them people
It always bothered me that the Jedi are on about "bringing balance" to the force, when they actually mean that they will be entirely in charge. That isn't balance. That's a space theocracy. Also thier entire order was brought down by a second rate politician. They are doing something wrong
As a person who struggles with a severe depression, I agree that this “just be happy” bs coming even from closest people really hurts like hell. It feels like a punch in the face
People shit on Hayden Christensen's performance but I think it's actually really good. In attack of the clones Anakin is an immature teenager, and in revenge of the sith Anakin is a mentally struggling adult, and he portrays that so well.
His performance in Shattered Glass is also excellent
"Oh, but hayden acts whiny, socially awkward, brash and aggressive!"
Yeah...that's...the point of the character...
@@Vlugazoide totally. George Lucas failed, not Hayden (same can be said for the actor for kid Anakin)
@@willywonka3050 Jake did great he was supposed to act like a 9 year old
Right??? I loved Hayden's portrayal of young Anakin. He was adorable and totally believable. ❤️
There’s a comic where Vader is asked after he had just destroyed things, “who could you hate to give you such ferocity?” His answer, “myself”.
That's very sad.
Great comic. Vader vs Maul well done.
That actually makes sense if it's a hatred for a single person once that person is dead there's nothing left. Hatred of self is self perpetuating.
Ooh I loved that comic, Vader vs Maul iirc. That line is just so powerful
That’s when he ignited his light saber through his own stomach to kill maul and said that
I like how you say he’s whiny and then show a clip of him right after his mom died.
Prequel hating logic...
For real though
@@chip5892 I was joking.
“Gah it’s not like you guys were very close..”
@@davidson2727what hahahahaha
To your point on self-harm, he willingly wore a suit that inflicted as much pain as possible and made his fortress overlooking the very spot of his greatest failure so he'd embrace pain.
That scene where Anakin is talking about hating sand. The hatred is not for sand. It's what it represents. As a child he had no control over the things that happened to him. He was a slave, vulnerable and not in control. The sand reminds him of that time in his life.
Maybe that’s why I hate sand
First off, he doesn’t “hate sand;” he “doesn’t like sand.” There’s a difference in intensity.
Secondly, that’s beautiful and I’m glad you’re getting that from it, but I gotta be honest I’m pretty sure it’s just an excuse to touch her arm and tell her how “smooth” she is.
@@_somerandomguyontheinternet_ i think you need to recall that Anakin was raised by people who refused to acknowledge the use of the words fear, anger, hatred, and suffering as anything other than things Anakin needed to rise above, not things he could truly acknowledge. So of course Anakin would avoid the word Hate as much as possible, as if he says anger or fear he would get the whole spiel. From, someone who avoids the word try because everytime i only get "there is no try, there is only do"
I always understood the concept behind that line, and I agree that the meaning goes that deep. But the descriptions Anakin used could’ve been more representative of those feelings. Sand could’ve “burned your feet wherever you go” or it could’ve been “inescapable” or “endless” or anything that connects to that feeling of being trapped.
He's also trying to get into Padme's pants.
My husband watched this video last week and now when I’m emotionally disregulated, he stays calm and says “I love you unconditionally” and repeats he sees the “good in me” until I’m calm. With BPD I’ve never experienced such comfort and relief SO QUICKLY in a moment of extreme anger. We have couples therapy and loads of tools, but your videos influence has had such a huge impact on our interactions. THANK YOU!!
Reading this made me cry 😭
That's really sweet of your husband
thats so sweet🥺🥺
I second the crying motion, definitely crying. Thank you for sharing
Your husband sounds like a wonderful person
I would cry so hard
as a person with BPD hearing him say "people with borderline personality disorder don't tend to be homocidal lunatics" was legitimately so refreshing to hear, especially from a professional; the way we're treated and portrayed is almost always as horrible, unhelpable, and toxic people when it reality it tends to be quite the opposite, so hearing it here made me very happy
this.
Bless
Agreed.
I've always believed i had BPD, once I asked a friend who was going into psychiatry ,and I brought it up and she totally gated me, pretty much going
"no hun, I doubt you'd could ever be that malicious to have BPD"
and i was just like "you dont think the youngest child, to an abusive father, who's felt alone all her childhood has a chance of having BPD?"
sometimes people are just bad judges of character.
He's literally saying a character who killed children had bpd. He's not being nice he's being underhanded. He hates us like the rest of the "medical professionals"
I as someone with B.P.D, really enjoyed this episode. Was actually good to see a visual representation of someone with this with too and hear personal and professional advice and comments. So many things much about B.P.D out there is so very negative and this was done in a truthful but tactful way. Thanks guys.
You’re so welcome!
I've been suspecting I have it for a few months now (could name several self sabotaging episodes, as well as emotional switching being expected from myself at this point)- I can't believe Anakin to be so relatable, I would never have thought that as a kid when I was just confused by him.
It's true, the times when I have had unconditional love from my step-father, or my grandmother, it felt like I really was the hero of my own story and was achieving everything I would want.. Life was almost "easy mode" in terms of difficult things being very achievable. Without that, life is much harder only because of what is happening inside.
I was here to say the same thing. I have done DBT for years and it has helped TREMENDOUSLY, but it is still really hard to relate to others and I really appreciated this episode. Especially the end. It is a diagnosis that can be stigmatized often. There are therapists who refuse to work with people with BPD. I appreciated greatly the empathy and thoughtful analysis here. Thanks!
Same! I'm always nervous when I click on videos about BPD, even when I generally like/trust the creators, because there's so much misunderstanding and stigma. And I totally see Anakin in a new light now, he makes a bit more sense than he did before. Happy to add him to my (short, but growing) list of characters with BPD.
Anakin’s fall feels like something from a Shakespearean tragedy. He loved too much, and became heartless after that love spiraled into obsession. The devil that was pulling all the strings knew just what to say to push him over the edge. Even after he became Vader, and everyone gave up on the monster he’d become, Luke saw the broken man inside, his father, that just wanted to be free of his master and his own demons. It wasn’t just self hatred, the guilt and grief of everything he did, all the betrayal, hanged over him. He was a slave all his life, and only his son, the force, and forgiving himself, set Anakin free.
Exactly! And, since his child hood was a bonfire as well as everything that came after they get him off tatooine. He goes from slavery, danger, calling an alien 'master'.
palpatine=shylock confirmed
°>°
&
@@hughjanos3992 oh come on Shylock is nice he just gets bullied by Antonio and basaanio and everyone and then hates them which is reasonable
guy is just doing his job and they ruin his life just because he is Jewish
Palpating on the other hand has no reason he is just evil
@@hughjanos3992 I think Palpatine is more like Iago from Othello
May I add to that?
He also lived trough years of war, saw whole planets getting decimated, had the Jedi council disown his apprentice because of a framework and not even offer her a "we're sorry that happened".
His fall was more of a gentle slope than a swan dive.
(And, yes. Clone Wars is canon)
Everybody always asked "who is Darth Vader?"
But nobody ever asked "how is Darth Vader?"
Why is Darth Vader?
"Where is Darth Vader?"
When is darth vader
He's not so good, actually.
Definitely had better days.
At least he's got his son.
What is Darth Vader
I always kinda felt bad for anakin, everyone he loves around him dies. And no one really tries to help him deal with it.
He killed his own wife, fyi.
@@Prince_the_One I know, but I felt that could have been prevented if he got help way early on.
Actually she died of a broken heart because Anakin fell to the dark side. Anakin says in ROTS that he can’t live without her and the same is true for Padmé. She can’t live without him.
@@Prince_the_One yeah he didn’t kill her lol
Just one person though, his mom. Padme's death is arguably his fault (yeah yeah "broken heart" and all but a pregnant woman was choked to unconsciousness That ain't healthy).
You should talk about Anakins descent through the Clone Wars series, it really highlights everything better and shows him getting more and more ruthless without Anakin even realizing it.
He slowly becomes deluded and starts thinking everyone is acting against him.
I would LOVE this. There’s a lot of filler, but the important episodes really highlight his fall.
The bad thing about The Clone Wars is that they fill the time gape between AotC and RotS. Once the whole trilogy was finished unlike Clone wars 2D that hit the TV in those years and the series ended and few weeks later RotS hit the theater
@Zed-ti9uj “ I agree, and this quote by Asoka only adds to that: “he cared deeply about his friends”
Clone Wars Anakin is what prequel Anakin should have been. He's actually the good friend and hero Obi-Wan described in the original trilogy not the whiny Padme obsessed incel of the prequels. Him and Obi-Wan are actually friends in the show whereas they seemed to hate each other in the films with Anakin projecting his jealousy of Obi-Wan onto him. Him becoming Vader was built up over the show's 7 seasons but in Revenge of the Sith it's rushed. He goes from remorse for helping Palpatine kill Mace Windu to unquestionably destroying the Jedi temple and killing kids for him within seconds. Not to mention Force choking the pregnant Padme and trying to kill Obi-Wan.
What gets me is that Anakin reached out for help and got palmed off with essentially a 'make yourself not worry about it'.
Yeah. I always feel like the Jedi order basically created Darth Vader. One of my major problems with the prequels is how it's hard to tell if this is the intended message or not. (I remember watching AotC when I was a kid and due to how the Jedi handled things I decided that the idea to not love others and to repress emotions was horrific and basically decided that I'd never want to be a Jedi. Idk how to explain it really, but imo the idea that that movie made a kid say he wouldn't want to be a Jedi is kinda depressing to me).
@@462n I still wanted to be a Jedi as a kid but in a reformed order that knew subjecting human and human like beings to a life of emotional self denial was both cruel and nonsensical.
In our galaxy, it sounds like this:
"Focus on the positives"
@@462n I am like 99% sure that was the intent
@@jordanetherington1922 my point isn't about whether or not it was intentional in a factual sense. but rather that it's so hard to tell (when just going by the prequel trilogy of movies). In other words, even if it was intentional I still don't think it was handled well. If you only go by what happens in the prequel movies it can be seen as that the Jedi were right and Vader came to be because of him going against their rules (starting at an older age, falling in love, etc.). There's nothing to go by in the prequel movies that supports the idea that if Anakin had proper emotional support (and maybe, perhaps, a therapist) that he likely wouldn't have become Vader. The tools to give that kind of message are there, like him being around Palpatine since he praises and supports him, but the movies never take that extra step to show that that's what's going on. Heck, the reason he's with Palpatine so much at the beginning of III isn't even his choice, he was asked to do so by the Jedi Order (which is the first mistake of theirs that is definitely shown as a mistake).
I'm still sad how the kid who played young anikin was treated. He was heavily bullied because of his role in Phantom Menace.
I can’t think of a single child actor that I hate. Some ppl need to ironically grow up and stop bullying children
Yeah, that's terrible. Shouldn't bully anyone, but in that scenario, obviously bully George Lucas, not the kid.
@Ayla Alya I agree. I have been lightly bullied during middle and high school, and it has been more traumatizing for me than any other fucked up shit that happened to me ever since. And even if I've been doing fine for myself, it still shapes my relationships to people, my self-esteem and ability to trust and feel comfortable. I am still a bit irrationally afraid of overly self-confident people, I still have trouble owning who I am in public, etc... So yeah, bullying's no joke.
@Ayla Alya Sending you my support, sister.
@@CinemaTherapyShow I've been bullied as an adult and I would never bully someone like that. It still hurts no matter what age you are
Darth Vader is a direct result of none of the responsible adults in the room with Anakin ever taking care of him as a human being before teaching him how to kill shit with his mind and an energy sword. And hey, let's not forget that the Jedi never bothered to free "the Chosen One's" mom, Shmi, from slavery. That couldn't possibly bite us on the ass later.
... Or just any slave.
A jedi cant have attachments. They shouldnt have trained him in the first place
@@yoonahkang7384 That's totally one of the flaws in the Jedi's training. Repression is not healthy. If only Qui Gon was around to train Anakin, he was a much needed rebel.
@@yoonahkang7384 I thought Mando did a good job calling that out early but not really obsessing over it.
It just means that later on when anything jedi-related comes up, that whole "no attachments" thing has already been established as going against common sense, as well as specifically un-Mandolorean.
this! sums it so perfectly!
I really feel for Obi-Wan as a teacher, because even though he came across as very critical in AotC, his teaching style is a bit different in other canon material. He did praise Anakin, did trust him, but also had the "unfortunate" position as someone who HAS to point out his mistakes. After 10 years of this, I can well imagine that patience is a precious commodity. Anakin was quite difficult to handle as it is, add in the whole "Chosen One" prophecy, Palaptine's grooming, hormones AND the entire Clone Wars shenanigans... I'm honestly not sure that even Qui-Gon could have 100% prevented Anakin from falling or making otherwise terrible decisions. Now to go read some fix-it fanfiction... T_T...
I just finished Kenobi.. again, any reading suggestions??
I believe Qui-Gon would have been able to help/fix Anakin. Qui-Gon was wise with words and teachings and also didn't believe everything the Jedi Council believed.
@@Dead_Hitori I respectfully disagree with the notion that Qui-Gon was the fix-all-cure many in the fandom seem to think he would've been. It's easy to idolize a dead man, because a dead man makes no mistakes.
@@Ouranorable i feel that it could have been a bit better had Qui-Gon not died. While he may not be able to fix it all by himself, him being alive means that Anakin and Obi Wan would be very much like brothers, rather than Obi-Wan being more of a mentor to Anakin. As OP said, Obi Wan had to criticise Anakin due to being his mentor, but if Qui Gon were his mentor, Obi Wan wouldn't be saddled with training Anakin and having to criticise him, rather being able to be someone who could be overall far more positive, supportive and encouraging to Anakin without the need for criticism.
Idk, it's hard to say how much would be different
qui-gon would have figured out palpatine very quickly. thats why palpatine needed him dead before he ascended to power. If qui-gon doesn't die, then palpatine wouldn't have been confident enough to assume power over the republic and begin the clone wars (and if he did qui-gon would have figured him out). He would still probably fuck up the jedi order after qui-gon dies (naturally or killed by another sith sent by palpatine) , but anakin wouldn't turn to the dark side
Somehow I think this is the first time I’ve realized what a harsh mentor Obi-Wan is. Everyone always sees him as the perfect Jedi and a beacon of light so this flaw always flies under the radar. And you’re right, the movies don’t really examine the impact of that.
It really is so easy to miss. I think a lot of us, and I know I, liked Obi-Wan and wanted to see him succeed which made it easy to pass off harsh criticism as helpful advice. That's especially true since that's clearly how much of it was intended.
I think the problem with Obi-Wan is that he wasn't prepared to raise a child and because he wasn't really supported himself, he wasn't able to support Anakin.
He wasn't able to be a parent to Anakin because he didn't know *how* and so he instead threw all his energy into being a teacher without realizing that that doesn't work when you're also responsible for a child's social/emotional learning and wellbeing. That's not to mention the incredible pressure Obi-Wan must have been under both from the council and a dead Qui-Gon to make Anakin succeed.
@@samtheflutegirl1373 yeah he came off as way more empathetic and supportive in the clone wars series
@@samtheflutegirl1373 Plus (this is second hand knowledge, sorry for any mistakes) Obi-Wan had a really messed up childhood? Like he basically flunked out of being a jedi and sent away to a farming colony until Qui-Gon grudgingly took him on, and even then Qui-Gon was far from a supportive and caring guardian. I personally headcannon that Obi-Wan had a massive case of imposter syndrome with all these people acting like he was the perfect jedi but all he can remember is when he failed.
The TV shows really get into his journey and character development after episode three.
@@nemesisstar813 I didn't know that but it really fits with his character. He does do a lot of performative things to be the "perfect" jedi.
One great revelation for me from this episode is the one about Obi Won being so critical of Anakin. When in the context of the movies, I didn’t really make that connection, but when it’s all together, I thought “Wow, dude, give the kid a break...”
Same here. That supercut was harsh. I'm a grown-ass adult and even now when I work with people who offer far more criticism than praise (or those who always add criticism onto praise like it will go down better that way) I tend to get pretty down. If i had someone like that as a teacher I'd have alot of trouble responding positively.
Yeah I think it's really well done, the way you don't really notice it. Because Obi Wan himself doesn't notice it. It's one of these things people tend to just do/say, often times not even realising how much it affects the person on the recieving end. He generally has a good heart and means well but lots of times, in the heat of battle doesn't think about what he's saying and how it might affect Anakin. He's a good guy but in way over his head as a mentor/father-figure
@@jonartscc968
He was pushed into this way too young himself. He was barely a knight and got minimal help because he was basically acting against the interest of the counsil. A great sassy older brother if there was someone to balance him out, but a shitty single father.
@@jonartscc968 very insightful, thanks :-)
@@KireiC a great reminder, thanks
"Tell me where the prequels hurt you" made me laugh.
bruh the vid was uploaded 2 minutes ago
@@lancesentry7936 that was in the first 45 seconds tho
The frontal lobe, they were so awesome that they broke my brain.
The sequels were even more traumatic.
"The emperor is kind of a sleezy boyfriend" got me on the floor.
You guys should do an analysis about how the Jedi are manipulative and constantly told Anakin to suppress emotions. Isn't it bad to be hounded and lectured and punished for feeling fear, anxiety and anger? Aren't ALL emotions vital to the human animal?
I wish they could do an entire series on Anakin. Almost everyone in his life just set him up for failure and then acted surprised when he lost it. It’s so sad
I'm am pretty sure we are human beings, created in the image of God, but we are now disconnected from him because we directly disobeyed Him. But thanks be to God that He loves us far more than any human can comprehend, and all you NEED TO DO is repent of your sins and accept Jesus is God and that he died on the cross for your sins so that you can avoid eternal suffering and join God in everlasting life.
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 6:23
@@IamsavedbyGodsgrace Bruh
It's funny, because I have hated the Jedi as a religion/sect the more I get into the Star Wars universe. I still love Star Wars, but the Jedi basically kidnap vulnerable children, brainwash them, make them into child soldiers, and then continue to control their lives and take away anything they could possibly love throughout their adult lives. It's ridiculous.
@@hymnsforchrist3620Agreed
I am surprised how rarely I've heard people raise concern about how the Jedi council recruited *children* into being trained to essentially become soldiers and be unable to have any family or friends, children at ages so low they barely have a sense of identity, let alone knowing if they are ready to accept having to devote themselves to a lifestyle of no connections, no family and constant suppression of emotions while also being a soldier with their life at risk.
And even worst is that Anakin was considered *too old* by Jedi recruitment standards... for fuck's sake they indoctrinate children smaller than 9!
I've heard ppl argueing that Anakin behaved angrily out of nowhere. HOW DID THEY MISS THE BEING BORN INTO SLAVERY PART?
Yes. I was just telling my mom this earlier. She wasn’t listening lol
Not just that. He was a slave to Watto, then the Jedi, then Palpatine. He was never truly free until Luke saved him.
because they have nwver met anyone that didnt have exact same sterile Jedi nursery upbringing. So without consiouslt working on it they conceptualize how childhood trauma would efffect him in the present
They miss it because Jake Lloyd’s acting(and misguidance from directors) doesn’t convey that. Anakin doesn’t feel like a wounded soul in Episode 1, he feels like every other generic child actor. Compare that to the kid actors like in the modern It film, they all feel like real kids who are going through serious trauma. Also even though they call Anakin a slave they don’t really show much of the hardship, mostly they focus on the fun aspects of the character like pod racing, building robots, and even the scene of him flying a ship to fight the blockade is super light hearted especially compared to the dog fight in Episode 4. And then episode 2 suffers from having too much emphasis on Anakin’s romantic subplot which, among other things, doesn’t focus enough on the tragedy of Anakin and the lose of his mother. By Episode 3 the arc of Anakin focuses explicitly on the tragedy he is going through and thus his anger doesn’t feel as out of place as it does in the second film where his anger is utilized too early and too often. In the 3rd film they hold back more on Anakin’s anger until moments he should be angry about something
@@johnmartin4119 It's all in execution that George often failed very much in prequels. It was writers and actors that improved George Lucas original trilogy just look at his original script for a new hope it's a bunch of interesting ideas but no well coherent story, Vader was created from several characters and anakin was a Jedi in the original trilogy, Luke was 60 year old general, stormtroopers have lightsabres, Han was originally an alien. George Lucas seemed to forget how much the writers, director and actors improved his movies
I was diagnosed with BPD during chemo therapy, five years ago. I went through 9 months of DBT group therapy and private sessions. I still see my therapist every week, we’ve moved on from DBT to EMDR. I’ve grown so much from these experiences. I’ve learned self love and healthy self expression. If it wasn’t for the steps I took I would have probably destroyed the relationship I am currently in years ago. Thank you for this. It’s nice to not be labeled as a villain because I was abused as a child. It’s also nice to have a whole backpack of DBT skills that I use regularly to help me identify why I’m feeling the way I am, take enough time to choose how to express my feelings, stay mindful, and work to improve interpersonal communication.
Hey. I'm considering starting group therapy and have just discovered i have some symptoms of BPD. What are your opinions on group therapy? Does it help you? Any tips you can give me?
@@Sarah-og3mp group therapy and DBT completely transformed my life for the better. The work was hard and the experience was challenging, but I came out of it with so much more control of my life. I now have satisfying relationships. I had a terrible time in undergrad and now I’m excelling at the graduate level. Again, it’ll be a challenging journey, but I am so happy I pushed myself. I’m finally happy with myself and while some days are harder than others, I have a much better skill set to tackle them. ❤️
@@Sarah-og3mp DBT in particular is quite literally a lifesaver and was designed originally *for* BPD (although is used for other diagnoses now too) *BY* someone with BPD, so it's very much worth looking into.
Thank you for sharing this! I am so impressed by all the work you have done and are doing to live your best life!
At least you have self-awareness, that is the first step to both healing yourself and working better with others.
To be fair, Anakin's character is highly developed during the Clone Wars TV show. He was that Rogue like Han and that Integral figure like Luke. He wasn't entirely arrogant, but he did exude a confidence. And when he figured if he was being arrogant, he owned up to it.
That being said, he was a mess, but he tried to keep his shit together.
Yeah, and he went through hell, Ahsoka leaving the Order was probably the biggest blow to him, she was probably the healthiest relationship Anakin has ever had and without her to help keep him grounded, well he just fell apart and all he had to really rely on was Padme, Obi-Wan, and Palpatine all of which presented obvious problems.
I heard that Lucas let Filoni write Anakin that way bc of the backlash.
While sure, it's fun, but I read an article someone wrote where the TCW Anakin promoted toxic masculinity, men can't be sensitive.
And its kind of true. PT Anakin wasn't afraid to cry when he was upset. He was openly affectionate towards Padme when he could be. TCW gave us the Clovis fight 🙄
I solidly agree with you, and heartily recommend Clone Wars...but Anakin is one of my least favourite parts of the series. It's especially annoying that he never gets any narrative punishment for his impulsive actions, terrible tactics, and smug self-satisfaction.
@@Werrf1 well, that's why The Clone Wars is a prequel to Revenge of the Sith. Anakin's habit of being reckless that he develops throughout the show comes back to bite him big time in RotS.
I think the biggest scene that emphasizes his pain is ,ironically, one that probably wasn’t intentional. It’s in the final arc known as the siege of Mandalore. Early in the episode we see him act like a goof clearly taken by Kenobi, however few scenes later it is stated Corousaunt is being invaded. A sign that this arc takes place minutes before ROTS. It’s from there that scene becomes, sad is a way.
I remember thinking Jake Lloyd’s acting was bad when I watched this as a kid, and held to that idea for a long time. On a recent rewatch though, I wondered why I felt that way and why other people said it. Having to say lines like “Yippee!” and “I’ll try spinning-that’s a good trick” is hard, but for the most part, he just seemed like a real kid. An outgoing, precocious kid who tries to always act like everything’s cool and he’s got things under control. I thought all the scenes with his mom were great, and I found their separation heartbreaking.
Deleted scene of Obi Wan talking to Padme in RotS
“I am not blind, Padmé. Though I have tried to be, for Anakin’s sake. And for yours. Anakin has loved you since the day you met, in that horrible junk shop on Tatooine. He’s never even tried to hide it, though we do not speak of it. We… pretend that I don’t know. And I was happy to, because it made him happy. You made him happy, when nothing else ever truly could.”
Holy kriff. That's really sad.
WHAAAT?
and in the clone wars season 7 he makes a small reference inlying that he knows of their relationship.
but also they are bad at hiding it in general
This fantastic bit of dialogue could have been in the movie. Instead we got:
A: You are so beautiful.
P: Only because I'm so in love.
A: No. It's because I'm so in love with you.
(awkward silence)
P: ... so love has blinded you?
A: (awkwardly laughing) No, no... that's not exactly what I meant.
(end scene)
Seriously, everyone always harps on the Anakin and Padme "falling in love" dialoge from Clones, but to me this is far and away the cringiest bit of dialogue ever shared between these two.
This is from the novel. It is not a deleted scene from the movie.
I’ve been saying for years that Anakin is the most abandoned character in movie making history. The most iconic villain in our culture is actually an abused child who was let down by the people who were supposed to guide and protect him. I see now how I’ve been projecting my own BPD diagnosis onto this conclusion. Even so, this video was so damn validating for me. Thank you cinema therapy
that actually adds something sadly poetic to the fact that people don't like the prequels: Anakin has been abandoned by everyone, even the all-knowing audience that should have been able to understand him, truly a tragic character
@@marcopohl4875 EXACTLY. As a whole we've focused more on attacking the actors who played Anakin than focusing on the unlikely redemption we have in Vader. Anakin is a tragic character deceived and abandoned by his mentors, the writer, the audience and the culture.. it takes a village
I blame the council a lot for this. They were like "he might turn to the dark side, so let's push him away from us :)"
Agreed which is why Luke when he revived the Jedi Council did away with many of the practices that were established because he knew what those practices would lead to, in the OG extended lore/Legends Universe it was revealed that he allowed fellow Jedi Masters, and Jedi Knights including fan-favorite Kyle Katarn to teach padawans like Jaden Korr how to use both "Jedi Powers", and what were considered "Sith Powers" along with these teaching philosophies that we see Kyle teaching Jaden, and Kesh those being "No power is good or evil it's how you use it that determines whether it's good or evil", and "It's all right to feel angry, but it's not okay to give in to your anger".
Thank you, I feel like they don’t connect Anakin’s troubles with the Jedi’s irresponsibility in the video. They’re just like “Anakin’s whiney the end”
@@jamiestyles4499 Yeah. It's so easy to blame Anakin, because he's the one to make the final choice. But when you look at the people surrounding him it becomes obvious that all that happened could have been avoided so easily
Also: "youre powerful and a genius but you cant be a jedi because were scared of you because you could possibly become evil" "oh yea hes out there killing people now, we have no idea how that could have possibly happened AT ALL"
@@phoeberaymond8781 I know right? It's a mystery how he ended up that way
I myself was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder after years of neglect and trauma I have a lot of very close relationships but I used to actively push them away (still do times ) my closest friends see through my paranoia and bullshit and don't let me push them away
Not to mention the trauma I faced when the person I cared about the most who was supposed to be my other half and I planned to marry abandoned me and lied about it
That is great news that your friends don’t allow you to push them away. If they do what the experts in the video said and your friends also do what Luke did then that is good for you. So sorry you went through that. Good luck!
Young Anakin: "I'm a person and my name is Anakin"
Darth vader: "that name no longer has any meaning for me"
Just think about how far Anakin lost himself.
Edit: thank you everyone for the responses and the like. It shows how much you understand people's hardships. Understanding is an art and not everyone is an artist.
There was this really great Star Wars what if comic where maul and Vader fight. Vader wins and maul asks “who could you hate so much to have so much power” and then Vader says “myself”.
🥺
😥
I can agree with it too, ditto the sequels which hurt me even more.
That makes it even sadder...
I’m now a little bit disturbed by how reasonable I found Anakin. I felt anyone in his situation would react the same way.
I think that makes sense! He’s a bit idealistic and wants everyone to be okay and really thinks he can help, and then not being able to help, lose his mom and constantly be told he can’t help and the people who are supposed to be the good guys are like “no, deal with it. Don’t be a baby, you’re being a bad Jedi” would piss anyone off and force them to Fuchs support elsewhere.
@@ElleDeas They never insulted him that way, you guys are being too extremist. Its weird. Yoda literally sat him down and told him everything he was doing would lead him to the dark side and he ignored it and just kept doing what he wanted.
I mean, Anakin, in a very extreme way, is the same as any person who jumps ship when he sees the flaws of his upbringing. Whether that means switching parties, religions, or environments, it can be a good decision or a bad one. In Anakins case, he saw the internal corruption of the Jedi, and decided that anything that wasn’t them must be the right side. How can anything evil lead to the saving of my wife?
It’s just like fascists who fell in love with their regime for pulling them out of poverty or former Christians who embrace atheism to the point of mocking and belittling current Christians.
@@Prince_the_One but is that really the kind of talk you would give to a child? There used to be a lot of Expanded Universe novels exploring the Anakin / Obi-Wan dynamic in more detail (now all non-canon), but that still shows how the Hedi council was basically a bunch of... to Anakin.
I've been a kids martial arts instructor for years and I know for a fact that sage/yoda style of teaching doesn't on but a select few.
Although the shitty dialogue didn’t help.
I think an argument can be made for anakin being suicidal. There are so many times in the films and the clone wars show where he just throws himself at something that should kill him and by some stroke of luck he lives. Obviously there is the force and that plays a role in his survival
I agree with this. That was my sense. Even when he kills others it is a kind of personal death wish.
To me it seemed to be a case of Anakin truly not thinking that he was endangered by his actions. He knows the force is with him. He knows he is skilled, probably more skilled then most. I think he doesn't think that the threat of these situations applies to him because he is special.
Funny thing is thats Vader in a nutshell he blast's through everything looking for a good fight that will kill he's failing upwards
An interesting take, but I think there is a clear distinction between recklessness and suicidality. Mentally you’re in totally different places when you experience those two things.
@@charly_george Actually a sign of suicidal ideation is reckless behavior.
As a BPD patient myself, I really appreciated this episode. Well done.
Anakin is very relatable and that's why he's my favorite character. He's not perfect, he's not a hero, he's just human. He's afraid and broken and angry and he really needs help but he doesn't get any
also DBT description is so relatable it's kinda scary
When I just watched the movies, I didn't really connected to him but after watching Clone Wars I really loves him, so yeah I think after Ahsoka he is my favorite character. And the DBT diagnosis make so much sense, It's super interesting
Yes agree 100%
Yes I always loved anakin as a character flawed characters always tend to be the most relatable
Yes he does
I love that Obiwan’s overly negative teaching style comes from Quigon. In the beginning of Episode One we see Quigon lecturing about the present and Obi was very receptive to it. A more experienced teacher would’ve known the same approach wouldn’t work with Anakin but all Obiwan knew how to do was imitate Quigon. Over the Clone Wars he dropped those bad habits but by that point it was too late.
When he took on Anakin as his Padawan Obi-Wan had only just become a Jedi Knight himself so didn't really know what he was doing.
@@Xehanort10 And, Obi-Wan did it because nobody else would, if I remember correctly. The rest of the counsel had thought Anakin was too old to be trained. Any more qualified instructor was unwilling to take on the task.
... Ya'll talking about this is bringing back some bad memories of mine in the USAF. This stuff is applicable in the real world.
I was a jet engine mechanic. I didnt have the best of supervisors and trainers, I often got assigned to literally the worst or most inexperienced "trainers" in the shop, to the point where I basically had to train myself to avoid total incompetence.
5 years later, I took more to heart what didnt work than what did work, in training new airmen. Something I strived to do was figure out what each individual airman needed to be trained properly, since every person has different motivators, different mental traits, different pasts, etc.
I generally got positive feedback on my teaching styles from new airmen, even ones I was harder on. Had I just acted the same as my own trainers had been, I honestly think that would've meerly perpetuated a cycle of abuse at that unit.
Anyway, point is... Kinda sounds like the Jedi arent much better than one of the worst maintenance units in the air force.
@@saldiven2009 he only took Anakin on as his promise to Qui-Gon.
Which makes a lot of sense. Qui-Gon was probably the best of the jedi, and given a few more years he could have made a great jedi and a competent teacher out of Obi-Wan, but he didn't get a few more years, and the jedi council didn't recognize that he wasn't ready to pass along his skills.
How good of an episode would it be if you guys went over Obi Wan and all he’s gone through in Clone Wars without being somehow absolutely physiologically destroyed by it?
Yeah because a lot of complaints about the prequels are addressed and solved with the clone wars.
@@everythingdibs344 Maybe so, but one shouldn't have to watch additional media just to "fix" original movies.
@@blinkachu3394 I see it more as there was so much story that couldn’t be addressed in one trilogy. Pretty much every Star Wars show (clone wars, rebels, mandalorian, bad batch) has a better formula because there is more time to tell the story so we can see things that films don’t have time to get into.
@@blinkachu3394 there’s also the fact of putting everything into movies makes it rushed, but tv shows really have more time, more space, to develop and create each character into their own character
I also feel that them going over clone Wars could add to this video on Anakin too
In my opinion, I do think Anakin engages in self-harm by intentionally putting himself in dangerous and risky situations without assessing the potential harm he may be doing to himself. It circles back to the idea that he at times feels invincible before dropping back into a negative self image after realising the damage he's done.
I wouldn't call it self harm when the reason anakin rushes into certain death is because to him, certain death scenarios aren't difficult to survive, he can run and dodge gunfire, pick up tanks, and the only thing preventing him from killing people is often the fact if he needs to or not, by the time of the clone wars anakin was already an experienced combatant, and once it started he would feel obligated to do everything he can to win the war to save as many lives as he can by ending it as quickly as possible
When Alan talks about Anakin being whiny and emotional and awkward.....that was the whole point, Lucas was trying to capture what an awkward teenager looks and feels like and he got it spot on
EXACTLY! But also he’s had such little interaction with women and just other people in general, only usually being around the council or in battles.
Yeah, many people fail to take into account that he is a teen, and still not mentally and emotionally mature, but dealing with incredibly mature scenarios.
Yep. Idk why people don't grasp that.
Luke was whiny too. And Padme didn't have a better option with Obi because Jedis don't do romantic relationships
@Recovering Soul Luke was not as whiny as Anakin. Anakin's whininess is on top, Luke's can't hold a candle to it. 😆
The real tragedy, and possibly proof that Lucas is more insightful than he lets on or even realizes himself:
Qui-Gon would've provided ALL those things Anakin needed: unconditional love, strict boundaries, high expectations and encouragement to meet them.
Because of these traits, Qui-Gon was treated as an outsider by the rest of the Jedi. Which is another thing he'd more empathetic to Anakin about.
Lucas actually does gets the credit for that one. It was all intentional. That's why the music for his fight with Maul is called Duel of the Fates. The outcome of that battle is what decided Anakin's future. When Maul killed Qui-Gon, his fate was sealed. Vader was inevitable.
You missed The Clone Wars. Padme had an ex boyfriend Anakin had to struggle to NOT kill on principle during their shared arc. Anakin is INCREDIBLY protective of his relationships & possessive of the people in his life. He unfortunately subscribes to the “you are MINE forever” and “if I can’t have you no one can” schools of thought.
Clovis right? The absolute madlad actually challenged him to a fistfight. Really? A polotician vs. a battle hardened knight? I almost respected his idiocy lol
Honestly I regard TCW Anakin as an alternate reality Anakin. Little of his characterization in TCW felt congruent with his representation in the films. This was actually intentional, too: George Lucas wanted TCW to retcon Anakin into being more likeable. Which is confusing - what elements of TCW are supposed to overrule which parts of the prequels then?
OK, here's another "Clovis did nothing wrong TM" person. Except he did. Just before Anakin beat him up, Clovis was forcing his attentions on Padme, and *kept on doing it when she was saying no*. That's called a forced kiss, or even sexual assault.
Any man who does not respect consent and continues to press his attentions on a woman after she says no, which is what Clovis did, deserves everything he gets.
@@allature I didn't. People say that Clovis was "just flirting" with Padme in that scene, but he was doing more than that, he was embracing her and did not back off when she was saying "NO!". That's called sexual assault. I don't blame him for beating the crap out of that creep. Not to mention that he held a gun to her head a while later, and in Series 2 Padme ended up getting poisoned by Clovis political rivals. I mean literally, she ends up dead or nearly being killed, or raped every time she is with that dude.
@@englishlady9797 ...? Huh? Uhm... I never defended Clovis? All I commented was that I remembered when he was dumb enough to challenge Anankin to a fight "without his Jedi tricks" (as if that would make a difference lol) I think you might have me confused with someone?
Hearing Alan honestly admit his faults and talk about how he's changed and improved himself as a person is so powerful and I'm so impressed because that must have taken incredible bravery. Thank you Alan.
I tend to stay away from stuff about BPD because of how people demonize us, but this was extremely humanizing and eye opening. I didn't even realize I push people away as a way of testing them, I really appreciate this.
Over time I have also realized I do this as a person with bpd. it's nice finding things like this in the comments.
I doubt that I have/had BPD, but I definitely showed symptoms of it during late middle school/early high school. I would test my friends’ loyalty to the point of tears, and I wouldn’t even realize it. So glad that for people who legitimately struggle with it there’s a light at the end of the tunnel.
My daughter has BPD, she's not evil either. She's actually a very loving person, but super out of control.
I always push people away and they never come back. Hence why I don't have any close friends. 7/9 on the BPD scale (self diagnosed myself with BPD years ago, maybe due to my post-graduate degree in Psychology??)
@@brambojr4298 i noticed that some people can be mostly fine but in times of stress look a lot like BPD lite. It's something many need to work on. It's almost like it's a spectrum just not recognized yet.
I like Anakin because his character actually makes sense. Basically his whole motivation is protecting the people he loves. But he repeatedly loses and fails to protect the people he loves. This happens to everyone. A normal healthy person would ultimately except that they can’t control all outcomes and begin to heal from the loss. But Anakin is the most powerful Jedi that’s ever been. People keep telling him he’s the chosen one, the strongest hero ever. He basically caps out and gets as strong as he possibly can on the light side of the Force. And he still can’t keep his loved ones from dying and leaving. So, instead of accepting outcomes and healing, he decides that the light side has failed him and he turns to the dark to keep expanding his power.
He never lost his intrinsic motivation. His turn to the dark side is entirely in line with his character.
Here's the thing: all of that is true, but as originally presented (before the Clone Wars cartoon decided to somewhat fix it), the story is _horribly_ told and the pacing is all over the place. It isn't a _satisfying_ fall to villainy. It's in-character, but that doesn't make it done well.
@@RabblesTheBinx Clone Wars helps with pacing in that it actually shows us a lot of the trauma that led to his deteriorated mental state, but it also breaks a lot of other things established not only in the movies but the Star Wars Insider issues (which themselves provided a lot of details about the war and how Anakin was shaped by it, but details). The chips arguably being the worst offender as it robs the clones of any and all humanity, complexity, or internal conflict.
Honestly, the only thing that held the prequels back was poor line delivery. The story is excellent, and relatively well told.You see very clearly where things happen and why, but the tone is shattered in places by hammy acting which itself is largely the fault of poor directing. In spite of this, Episode 3 is still the best of the films by far to me, only closely rivaled by Episode 4 and 5.
@@leftwardglobe1643 exactly what is your point? Yeah, Clone Wars makes it better, I addressed that, but _as originally presented_ it is very poorly done. And it's not just the dialogue or delivery. Anakin brutally murders an entire village after being nothing but creepy and obsessive towards her during the entirety of Episode II, and Padmé decides she loves him literally a couple hours later, in-universe. It's a badly told story. Clone Wars helped, but it doesn't fix all of the problems in Episode III and does almost nothing to fix AotC. And you're actually putting RotS above the OT? I'm sorry, you're entitled to your opinion, but no. RotS is, by far, the best of the prequels, but it is nowhere near the quality of even Return of the Jedi, let alone Episodes IV and V.
@@RabblesTheBinx No it attempts to provide context to Anakin's story, which yes, is a good goal. It does that job rather poorly when compared to other sources, but it's a good goal.
However, it also destroys several other elements of the final movie and wider universe in the process. It doesn't improve the prequels at all. if anything it tries to retcon established lore, succeeds, and damages far more than the prequels in the process. From the Mandalorian Arc where their entire culture is upended to the chips which exist purely to ruin the Order 66 scene by robbing it of any and all tragedy/perspective. They took the best scene in the entirety of the franchise and retroactively turned it into a supervillain flipping a switch for his master plan of the week. The clines used to have moral reasons for doing what they did from their experiences during the war in the original background material. Just like Anakin. But no, we can't have the bad guys be relatable.
It is absolutely the dialogue and delivery. Padme accepts Anakin before that point in the story, they have spent several days if not weeks together at this point, both o the flight to Naboo and on Naboo itself. Not to mention their infatuation from childhood and the fact that he quite literally saved her life. Plus Anakin going out into the wilderness, trying to save his mother and then having her die in his arms after being tortured, starved, and potentially raped and abused, all whilst having not seen her since the age of ten, makes for a rather compelling set of justifications to kill everyone there in the most brutal fashions possible. Especially considering that incidents like this are not unique to Anakin's mother on Tatooine, and given that he has already experienced significant trauma at this point having to grow up without parents in a cult that teaches him to shun any and all emotions, oh also his one and only father figure before Obi Wan died in combat. I would likely do the same in his position and most of us would go to similar extremes if not further.
The plot here is undermined by poor performances and bad directing, not the writing. We don't see the connection between Anakin and Padme before that point because the actress never shows any indication of it existing through body language or tone. Anakin comes off as creepy and obsessive largely because the attempt was to make him seem inexperienced and nervous and they failed at that. Padme seems to just accept Anakin after killing the sand people both because of the absence of tone in earlier scenes which would establish how deep their connection was and because she is trying to comfort him after going through what is likely the most traumatic thing in his life.
Episode 2 isn't great, but it's not failed by writing.
Episode 3, on the other hand, again, has some sloppy dialogue and fight scenes, but it's by far the most compelling narratives in any of the movies once examined. It's a tragedy, and a damned good one. From the relationship between Anakin and Obi Wan, to the politics and machinations of Palpatine, to the masterfully done Order 66 scene, to Padme's death. Vader goes down a very dark path, and loses everything he fought to save, but at the same time creates something that he believes will be a moral good in the galaxy. Knowing the lore so intimately, I can't say he's wrong either.
Contrast this with Return of the Jedi where logic is thrown out the window regarding what is physically possible (I fucking hate Ewoks and their rocks), the villains are robbed of any sense of competence and danger by being made into complete fucking idiots, and our main characters celebrate over a stormtrooper barbeque at the end of the film... and suddenly this shit shines like gold. Now, Episode 6 has it's moments, and it's almost saved by the final few scenes between Vader and Luke, but the rest of the film is entirely awful and a confounded mess... well, save for the dialogue, but that's what good acting gets you.
IV and V on the other hand have good structure, sensible plots and characters, and excellent acting for the most part, making them excellent films, but they lack the sheer tragedy and depth that Revenge of the Sith has. They do take 3rd and 2nd spots on my list respectively, however. The sequels are mostly awful (Force Awakens is ok, but not great), Episode 1 and 2 suffer from very poor direction and line delivery even if the plot is stellar in the second film, and Return of the Jedi is by far the worst film of both the Original and Sequel Trilogies.
Wait, there are people who say his shift to dark side didn`t make sense?
Um, the guy was enslaved along with his mom.
Then he was taken away from his mom by psychic dudes with laser swords to train him to become like them so he can save the galaxy, something a kid definitely won`t have any idea WTF is all about. And of course they didn`t save her, free her from the slavery when they could. So now he has to worry about his mom, his only source of love & affection, his only connection, being chained, dragged & forced to do chores and god knows what more horrible things they did to her, while he was learning how to make shit float with his mind & use a laser sword that totally didn`t originate from some kinda disco club.
He was taught to NOT have any attachments, but his only attachment only got stronger.
Then PUBERTY happened.
Then he lost his mentor, then got another one, this one liked to use harsh criticism as teachings. But that doesn`t work on Anakin. It only pisses him off then makes him doubt his abilities.
He was literally groomed by the leader of the guys he is being trained to beat the crap outta with the power of his mind.
Turns out his mother died by the time he came to save her.
He got worried about his GF, who later became his wife, leaving him, then was worried about her dying, so to save her he learnt dark mag- I mean Sith force powers, which includes choking people from a distance with your brain power. Not only is it useful for long range, but it`s also Kinky.
Then by the end he was convinced that the people who taught him ``no attachments if u wanna use laser swords & pushing shit around with your mind`` were against him, including the mentor whose teaching style didn`t fit insecure kids including him.
And of course, he hates sand. Its coarse, rough, and it gets everywhere.
How won`t you expect a mental breakdown where he just basically declares: ``fuck it, I`m gonna use black mag- I mean dark powers instead, TRAITOR!``
Another important relationship that Anakin was the one with his padawan Ahsoka from the Clone Wars series. She honestly might have been the healthiest relationship he had before his fall. She was like a younger sister to him and showed a lot of his qualities: talented, confident, at times to a fault, and a strong sense of doing what she believes is right, even if others doubt it.
And while she would get on Anakin's case at times like Obi-wan, she held a deep respect and admiration for him that he did not find among the Jedi his age or older. They truly cared for each other and Ahsoka was one of the best influences in Anakin's life.
Which is why she is framed into leaving the Jedi. Another loss certainly contributes to pushing him over the edge
I mean, I know that George Lucas was involved in show-running TCW for the first few seasons, but Dave Filoni, Pablo Hidalgo, and Disney were all involved in running, and intentionally distanced themselves from the portrayals of Anakin, Padme, and Obi Wan in the OT and PT movies to appease all those entitled and whiny fanboys who have never been happy with the fact that Darth Vader quickly became so much more of a complex, relatable, and tragic villain/tragic hero that that horrifying cyborg-killing monster machine who force-choked all of his guards because they defied his orders in “Star Wars: Episode IV.” It was written for the fanboys who desperately wanted for Anakin to just be this toxically masculine power fantasy who destroyed lives and blew up planets for shits and giggles. If you go by GL OT and PT canon, then Anakin/Vader is portrayed as being a tragic hero/tragic villain type who only values power and asks those he loves most to rule the galaxy with him because he comes from a background of childhood abuse, abandonment, separation, poverty, slavery, and went into flight or fight mode to survive. The environment and adults/authority figures he grow up with pretty much consistently suck after leaving his mother, he has nothing to go back to after she dies, and so he ends up making the choice to become a perpetrator in the cycle because there is no easy way for him to escape. PT!Jedi Council are emotionally abusive, ridiculously restrictive, unhelpful, and cult-like, Palpatine groomed him from the age of 12 because the Jedi Council was negligent and used him as a pawn for their own political purposes. Palpatine/Sidious can’t be killed by him without Anakin risking his own life in the process after he gets burnt up, disfigured, and weakened in a way that makes it so he can’t easily kill his abuser without risking his own life in the process. He hates himself so much that he doesn’t even want that release of death anymore after Padme dies in childbirth, at least in part because he recklessly choked her in a rage when he thought she brought Obi Wan with her to kill him when he was high on this new dark power, and so he submits himself to a life as Sidious’ killing cyborg man Darth Vader to punish himself for failing as Anakin Skywalker.
In the GL OT and PT canon he is basically always in fight or flight survival mode until the end. His fatal flaw is he keeps sacrificing his moral compass to fit into one of these two space cults philosophy because he didn’t grow up in a healthy environment with healthy guardians for most of his childhood that encouraged the importance of individual growth, values, and choice. After TPM, he no longer has a solid moral foundationbecause he’s been constantly told negative feelings are “dangerous” by the Council, and Palpatine is constantly encouraging him to release them by acting on on them in an abusive way in the heat of the moment when someone challenges him, rather than being taught they are valid feelings that make him human, rather than a monster, and he can feel safe healthily releasing them through having a shoulder to cry on as catharsis, just follow his first instinct to do what he feels is right, not what everyone else tries to tell him.
Not an entire excuse for his crimes because, while sympathetic, his motives for falling were selfish in his desperation. While risky, he could still stand up for his beliefs, in spite of limited options and negative circumstances against him. He is eventually a coward in his fear of the unknown, but it’s impossible not to pity Anakin and see where he’s coming from when he comes from poverty on Tatooine who the Republic devoted to “Democracy” don’t give a shit about freeing from slavery, he has no one left after his mother dies there anyway, Obi Wan cares, but he’s not a healthy support system or mentor because he has been raised by an emotionally repressive and abusive PT!cult Jedi since infancy. Most of Anakin’s life he’s constantly being encouraged to defer his moral compass to figures with authority over him to gain some sense of security and acceptance, rather than being told that it’s okay for him to just be Anakin, aside from Luke and his mom.
TCW and Disney kind of ruined that characterization that makes any sort of atonement he makes in ROTJ seem wrong. The force, particularly the dark side of the force, for him is framed as a drug that he abuses to blindly, unhealthily, and recklessly release all his pent up anger, fear, and rage in the heat of moment when he’s feeling angry, betrayed, fearing abandoned, or feeling sad if he’s not using it to fulfill any sort of specific request for Sidious or the Council. It’s usually not this premeditated abuse of control and power if he’s not using it to fulfill an order in the PT and OT movies. In TCW (08-19’) he’s got too much self-confidence, too much self-control, his possessive side is flanderdized, his controlling side seems more cold and demanding when he’s interacting with Padme in Clovis, rather than clingy insecure attachment with one moment of blind lash out in a rage angry without thought for the consequences when he finally embraces the high of the new dark power as Vader in the heat of the moment . He’s more than just naive, impulsive, and afraid, but genuinely stupid in TCW, and he has too many people who genuinely love him and offer him compassion and opportunities for redemption after his turn to the dark side for me to believe that he would just keep rejecting opportunities for redemption through close attachments over and over again.
Whenever The Clone Wars is mentioned, I start to feel like Anakin in the Jedi Temple with the younglings...
@@Schoolgirl325 I really enjoyed your take on prequel Anakin. I mostly agree but for two points: 1/ Padme is an enabler. By not acting on her knowledge of the Tusken massacre she did Anakin a huge disservice. By coddling Anakin and later sweeping the mass murder under the rug never to be mentioned or acknowledged again she did a lot of damage. What Anakin did was a loud call for help, he should have been forced to therapy after that and made responsible for his actions. Padme made him feel that what he did was okay and there was no need to address it again. She just pretended that it never happened and Anakin played along. 2/ Anakin's redemption doesn't work for me with or without TCW: By saving one person - his own son - he couldn't undo all the evil he had done before. Had he lived he would have been sentenced to life imprisonment or death penalty and rightfully so. I would have loved to see whether Luke would have been ready to accept that or turned into another Padme-like enabler and helped him escape.
And vice versa
Had Qui-Gon lived and trained Anakin, Anakin likely never would have turned to the Dark Side. Obi-Wan did his best, but he wasn’t ready to have a Padawan at that time, especially someone like Anakin. Obi-Wan acknowledges he failed Anakin in Revenge of the Sith which seems to indicate he was self aware he wasn’t fit to be Anakin’s Jedi Master, but did his best as to fulfill Qui-Gon’s dying wish of training Anakin. Though because he went against the Jedi way and married Padmé, he had Luke and Leia and Luke was the one who saved his father and turned Vader back into Anakin, who then killed the Emperor and being Balance to the Force. Honestly, I love the Prequels. Always have and always will. I do put the Original Trilogy above the Prequels, but the Prequels have gotten better as time has gone on. At the end of the day, there are 6 great films with George Lucas at the helm. No Disney nonsense. That’s all corporate fiction.
Awesome comment. 👍
...I really hate that Disney nonsense...
Pro Tip for having a relationship with someone with bpd: Reassure them that they will not be abandoned, no matter how convinced they are, and learn to not take their fears as criticism. Sometimes you just have to ride their emotional waves with them.
This one. I finally found someone who is able to do this and along with me being in therapy, we have been in a super healthy and amazing relationship for two years and are planning on engagement.
@@m1nouz384
Congrats, hope all goes well 👍🏾
If it turns into abuse, leave them.
@@maxcovfefe I’m sorry, but do you have BPD or are you a health professional? Because that’s just not true at all. You cannot “outgrow” BPD. BPD physically changes your brain. BPD is not PTSD at all, and never will be. It is a Cluster B personality disorder. PTSD is an anxiety disorder. To clump the two of them together and say that they’re the same is honestly quite dangerous.
@@maxcovfefe I never said it wasn’t treatable. BPD is very treatable and can even stop needing treatment. But that damage in the brain doesn’t leave. Just because it reminds you of another disorder, doesn’t mean it’s the same at all. Unless you work with Cluster Bs you honestly should not be spreading your information around. Especially considering you worked with those who had brain damage (not Cluster Bs) a long time ago. We know so much more now, and to say that a Cluster B type disorder is the same as an anxiety/panic disorder is honestly ridiculous and extremely hurtful to those who actually do this for a living or who live with a Cluster B disorder.
It’s also ridiculous that you had the nerve to write “but not devoid of hope” when writing about people with BPD. Even if they can’t be treated well, they can still live a beautiful and fulfilling life. You honestly need to take a step back and think about what you’re saying.
I feel a lot for obi wan. He was not ready to take on a padawan, because he was barely a Jedi himself and was still dealing with the grief of literally watching his master die in front of him. He wasn’t old enough to be a father figure, but he felt obligated by his promise to Qui Gon. The Jedi religion used both of them badly and kinda denied their issues.
We also have the Clone War tv show where we can see Obi Wan trying his best to guide Anakin but sometimes gives flaw advice. the Jedi during the Clone Wars were super flawed on how they ran things. So that didn't help things.
@@Zeroknight34 Exactly and you can see he's trying to give advice, but all he knows is what the Jedi taught him, so it doesn't work. What kills me is how much Anakin felt Obi-Wan didn't care enough or noticed how much pain he was in and so he turned to Palpatine because he felt Obi-Wan (and by product the Jedi) wouldn't/couldn't help him. In reality, Obi-Wan cared too much for Anakin but didn't know how to help him
It's very telling that Obi Wan always refers to Anakin as his "brother," while Anakin says that Obi Wan is "the closest thing he has to a father." Obi Wan was able to be a companion for Anakin (which Anakin also very much needed), but he wasn't able to be a true mentor, but that's what Anakin and everyone else expected him to be.
And also some of the content not directly includded in the films themselves definitely makes you more sympathetic to Obi-Wan. I don't know how much of this is necessarily canon, but he was a leader in a civil war with a bunch of other child soldiers when he was around 13 years old. He was bullied by some other initiates when he was young, and had to watch one of the bullies die during a duel. In one of the books, Obi-Wan wasn't initially chosen as a padawan and was shipped off to the AgriCops, with the specific place he was sent turning out to be a slave operation. Not to mention the trauma of losing Qui-Gon in the first place, and his last words not even acknowledging Obi-Wan at all. Like Qui-Gon's final interaction with his padawan was emphasizing the importance of this kid he barely knew. If you include some of the contents of the books in your character analysis, it makes that moment even worse, because in those Qui-Gon initially rejected taking Obi-Wan as his padawan. It's pretty fucked up, and Obi-Wan's got plenty of his own demons, we just don't see them as much.
Obi wan was a Big Bro and not a father, which is detrimental eswpcIlly when you need that figure over your life to lead you and shape you, he tried his best but Anakin was full of pain and anger and the order strict rules at the time did NOT help and Anakin was taken in as a child when the padawans are supposed to learn when their young so they can be used to the life of a Jedi
I feel that anakin saw obi wan as a brother. What he really needed was a father which is what palpatine was to him
Well, younger Obi Wan even outright stated Anakin was like a brother to him.
Pity that either through Obi Wan's unintentional negligence or Anakin's own lack of self-trust and lacking judge of character, Anakin found a father figure in the emperor... but it was an abusive and manipulative step-father. The emperor never cared about him, other than him being an obedient means to an end.
@@ZemplinTemplar He did think of Obi-Wan as a father. He told him that, at least.
Meaning if Qui Gon survived he would’ve remained as the father figure and thus palpatine wouldn’t have had as much influence over him. That’s why Palpatine was so intent on maul killing hin
Obi wan was a jealous brother
5:10 this is exactly the reason why I and so many others absolutely adored Star Wars the Clone Wars.
It's astounding how much they did with Anakin's character and personality. The fleshed out backstory, aswell as Anakin's deeds as the hero of the Clone Wars really was a big point that would have played perfectly into us feeling heartbroken over Anakin's betrayal
I absolutely think it makes sense why Padme was so drawn to Anakin and fell in love with him! While I completely agree that he's extremely insecure in his self image, he is also extremely emotionally vulnerable with Padme privately and in dire situations AND also presents very confidently ~and~ visibly is a very skilled Jedi. She's normally in a world of politics, and the men she'd been with before were all secretive, had political motivations, and were not like Anakin, who prioritizes her and her feelings in many ways consistently throughout the Clone Wars and during the Attack of the Clones era of their relationship. Anakin was just providing something in his emotional vulnerability and confident pursuit of her that she wanted and was thrilled by. Anyway, this is a fantastic analysis of Anakin -- I think Padme would be worth an analysis herself. :)
Also padme didn't have a childhood either so Anakin was like catnip to her.
Padme was an enabler. Counting the Clone Wars, she rarely pushed back. And the few times she did it nearly, or did, end in disaster. Anakin was used to getting his way. Their relation was always doomed to fail.
@@saphiriathebluedragonknight375 I always thought their relationship had the dynamic of one partner taking care of the other like a child. It's based in pity. Pity isn't a strong foundation for a relationship. My ex's mom was an alcoholic and a druggie. She once beat him to the point where one of his ribs nearly punctured his heart. We really only stayed together because I felt sorry for him. A relationship based in pity is doomed to fail.
@@devinreis5811 honestly, staying on the topic of star wars, that's kind of how I felt about Reylo. I like what we got in the movies, but I felt like the only thing Kylo Ren going for him was his attractiveness and patheticness, so even if he'd survived, their relationship would've been doomed.
@@devinreis5811 your wrong! Have you ever met someone with BPD? We are anything but boring. Our all or nothing behavior as we push and rage against the dying of the light does not inspire pity! Compassion is not pity! Do not jump to shallow conclusions. People are rarely just one thing. Our madness and intensity, our belief in something beyond man's fallen state, Is worth more than your quick and dismissive analysis.
The scene where Vader kills the emperor breaks my heart because it’s the first and last parenting decision he makes and by god it’s a good one.
Jonathan, hearing you say "If you have BPD, you have my sympathies. It's hell, you didn't ask for it," made me tear up. I was so insulted when a therapist told me he thought I had BPD, because "BPD" brings to mind the kind of violent, homicidal, psychotic person few would be proud to be associated with. But he wasn't wrong, especially with the criteria presented in the video. Thanks to my partner, who I still have no idea why he's with me, but after 13 years I've stopped doubting and questioning, and his unconditional love, I know I've gotten better.
I guess my point is, treating us like people instead of some caricature can do so much, even just in that moment. It won't magically cure us, but damn does it abate the self-loathing for a little while.
I was diagnosed with BPD when I was 16 or 17 (cant remember specifically) & the guy who diagnosed me said "let's not worry about that cause we cant fix that, let's focus on your depression". That delayed my process on learning to cope back by YEARS until I remembered about my diagnosis at 20 & actually started to learn about it. It was so heartbreaking to hear & theres so much stigma in the community about BPD. Ive heard of therapists & psychologists turning away BPD patients because we're "difficult". I had to teach myself how to cope & live with my BPD. I'm so glad you guys are spreading awareness of this 🙏🏼
Same. My BPD was also brushed under the rug of my depression.
And now as an adult, I do not know how to cope with the onslaught of emotions; I don't know how to form healthy attachments; I just don't know how to cope.
I'm so sorry to hear you had that experience. BPD is intense, especially when the professionals, who are supposed to be helping you work towards your best interests, just don't want to. It's infuriating, and I don't even have BPD. Still, BPD hits close to home for me because an ex of mine suffered from it. I don't talk to him anymore, for a number of reasons, but I still love him, and I've been happy to hear from someone we both know that he's doing well.
Is there any ressources (to inform or for methods to live with it) you could share or most important tips you could give? Getting therapy over here is so slow and such a hassle. And while I don't feel like it burderns me too much, I wanna do what little things I can to learn to live more healthy.
I'm 40 now, was first diagnosed when I was 14 and then at age 33 again.
As of now my therapist wouldn't diagnose me with BPD anymore, because I have learned so much and I'm able to regulate my emotions way better, no more self harm and all that.
What helped? First the motivation to not spend the rest of my life living like that, hating myself and basically wanting to destroy myself. I remember vividly six years ago after a really bad self harming episode, that I was just done with it. I remember thinking "this stops now." and it has till today. I'm not loving myself, most of the time not even liking me, but I created a cease fire that day and everything I have learned from DBT and schema therapy helped to make that happen.
Trust me, if you want to get better, it will get better. I was told that BPD would be a life sentence and that I would never be able to overcome it, but I did. It took me a long time, but I did.
@@TeaquestSagas unfortunately, I dont have any specific resources. To be honest, I watched a lot of videos on TH-cam of people who have BPD discussing what helped them & therapists discussing BPD symptoms. I googled articles & things like that on my symptoms. I listed out all the symptoms that I had & went through them one by one on how to cope with each. I had a lot of conversations with people who know me well enough to help me get an outside perspective.
But the biggest help for me was to teach myself to speak & think in grey areas instead of black & white. (If you're in the BPD community, a lot of us call this "splitting"). Also avoiding "you" statements when expressing myself. For example, I stopped saying things like "you always ignore my feelings" and changed it to "I feel like most of the time you don't take my emotions as seriously and that really hurts me". It helped my interpersonal relationships SO MUCH & prevented so many breakdowns from simple miscommunications. When I start splitting I try to reason with myself. If I think "why does this person always ignore my texts?" I will take a breath & think "is it really ALWAYS? are they really doing it on purpose? They're most likely just busy."
Its hard to explain everything in one comment, but those where a couple of the biggest things for me cause they keep me grounded in reality.
As someone with BPD I now understand why I empathized with Anakin so much. Not the evil part obviously lol, but the moodiness, mood swings, fear of abandonment, recklessness and other things you touched upon. Thank you so much for this video! We need more of this kind of thing.
And the shiny black spaceships of course.
oh, if you put it that way... maybe i do relate to him a bit, too. but the path he chose and the passions he fell to - that's just not excusable by BPD.
Hope things get better for ya!
@@ConnanTheCivilized Of course!
@@kikosawa Yes, of course.
*Sees new video*
“A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.”
I was like 9 when Phantom came out. I felt VERY strongly for Anakin's situation. I've been homeless with my single mom. I've seen real demons knocking on the the door, helpless to do anything as I watched a violent man try to murder my mom.
I ABSOLUTELY understand Anakin's mindset as he grew up, went to 'essentially' a boarding school that wasn't prepared to care for him, and his choices as he grew and finally had the physical strength to protect the people he loved. His feeling of helplessness when even as a grown man, was still too weak to save his mom. Anakin's emotional and mental problems were learned, taught.
Obi-Wan was a great mentor, but he wasn't the mentor Anakin needed.
Where Anakin needed Qui-Gon's calm guidance, another calm, caring figure, Palpatine, took his place. From a hand on his shoulder at the end of Phantom, to love advice, to being told the simple truth to follow your heart. Palpatine was really good at twisting good advice to his own ends.
Anyway, Prequel trilogy > Boomer trilogy
“I also love Star Wars, even though I’m kind of in an abusive relationship with it. I love it, but it keeps hurting me.”
ouch this hits 😂😬
True
It’s like sports fan and their favourite team,of course if the team’s been sucking for a while.
This is why the Clone Wars cartoon is so good. Gives you so much more on why Anakin turns to the dark side.
Yes! I watched it, and suddenly "Revenge of the Sith" was so much better. Everything in it just clicked. Anakin at that point was a man who had gone through trauma after trauma, in a religious order that told him to bury his emotions, instead of giving him the tools he needed to process it and heal from it. On top of that, they threw him into a position of authority in a civil war, gave him a student who basically became his adopted daughter, and then accused her of treason and turned on her, and demanded that he back them on that.
He lost almost everyone he cared about, but I really think that everything that happened with Ahsoka is what really broke him. He wasn't able to protect his daughter, no wonder he started freaking out about his wife being pregnant. Add visions of everyone he loved suffering and dying, and Yoda brushing him off, and you have a recipe for one seriously messed up guy.
It's the sand. It's coarse, and irritating, and gets everywhere.
(Kidding - Clone Wars was really helpful in the backstory)
@@femailler22 i mean.. The sand could have been the final straw 😂
@@kimberlyrodrigues2998 yes exactly! Clone Wars made him a likable character and made him everything we had all wanted him to be in the movies. It's honestly difficult watching episode 2, seeing him be whiney and annoying, then seeing him be a confident bad ass general throughout the Clone Wars, making deep relationships with Obi and the clones like Rex, and then go back go Episode 3 and seeing him be just insufferable. They seem like two different characters. Ep. 2 and 3 show the exact same annoying character. Clone Wars shows us how it should've been.
@@blueneptune146 He's supposed to be angsty dumbass. CW Anakin, while a good character, makes it hard to believe he becomes Vader.
That moment when you realize that you don't hate Anakin because of the writing, but because he reminds you of yourself.
How many people are out there feeling like they are Anakin? I know people are disgusted with the sympathizers but I feel like that's cause of the genocidal outlook
@@nestorsifuentesaguirre2722Is a jedi civil war really more hideous than betraying the ones you love (altho one was on accident...sorta) plus enforcing an empire?
Yet we still simpatize with him because of how it all went down and what he went through
@@nestorsifuentesaguirre2722 Vader did scar alot of people during his days but that does seem like an interesting take, might give it a watch.
@@nestorsifuentesaguirre2722 I guess the jedi aren't so civil anymore LOL
@@Ilovebuzzsaws Don't forget about the child killings (that have oddly become one of the most popular memes in the prequels)
As a person with BPD, before I was diagnosed I never understood why people disliked Anakin Skywalker. I always related to him. Even more now that I am diagnosed. Thank you for being understanding that we are not monsters!
I need a villain therapy for The Incredibles. I feel like there's some stuff to unpack for Syndome
i concur.
There is some of this that is clearly Buddys fault through his own choices........but ...........to be fair......it wasnt all him.
Might be a little harder. Buddy is painted out as a bad apple from the beginning. He was sort of a ticking timebomb while Anakin just needed guidance.
@@TheAwesomeDarkNinja no he wasn't.
He was just a kid at the time who showed he wanted respect and approval from the hero he admired.
Just like Anakin, they clearly needed help.
and neither one got the help they needed.
Buddy was intellectually gifted. If guided and supported by a great support group.....at worse.... we're just looking at getting Disney Tony Stark before Tony Stark™ became Disney.
Not all superheroes have the typical "Boy Scout" clean image Clark Kent and Steve Rogers give off. Some are a bit rough and unpolished.....but deep down, they just want to help and be accepted.
Unfortunately, we don't know enough about buddy's life to know what caused that massive loss of morality.
But, with a good support system of people, these two would have thrived.
@@Tentegen Mr Incredible only didn't want Buddy to be his sidekick because he was a kid and didn't know what he was doing and his malfunctioning rocket boots nearly got them both killed. It was Buddy who thought "You only don't want me to help you because I don't have powers." And given what he did as Syndrome, having heroes killed just so the Omnidroid could mimic their powers just so he could look like a hero by destroying it showed that even as a kid he only wanted to be a hero for attention and publicity not to help people.
Yesssss. Maybe even for Malificent.
"Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Passion can lead to rage and fear and can be controlled. But passion is not the same thing as love. Controlling your passions while being in love, THAT is what the Jedi should teach you damnit. But love itself will save you, not condemn you." -Jolee Bindo, Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic
"Thank you for being vulnerable." I just love that.
A villain psychology of Darth maul would be fantastic if you’ve seen the clone wars
Kenobi hihihi. KENOOOOOOOOBAAYEEEEEIEEEE
Is there a psychology to him other than being a sociopath?
@@sithman5000 A little late but imagine being born not only into a clan of people who value wickedness as a religion but also being a male in this clan effectively makes you a second class citizen, even if your mother is the head of this clan. Then you're hawked off by said mother to the most evil person ever just so there can be some kind of loose peace between factions. From that point you're conditioned to live in perpetual hatred with the vague promise if you submit to this you'll be destined for greatness. Then when it's finally time to prove yourself, it leads to you be horribly injured with said mentor completely abandoning you. The only way you're able to survive is to fully lose yourself to misery, surviving off literal garbage and the anger towards the person who did this to you for over a decade. Finally when your brother (and mother) finds you, restores your sanity, and you begin to taste a little bit of that success you were promised from the very start, suddenly your old master comes back, kills your family, and strips you of your gains forcing you to lead a petty crime family from the shadows until that's somehow ripped away from you too. Is Maul a Sociopath? Most likely... definitely... but there's also probably more to it.
Let's see a villain therapy video on Judge Doom from “Who Framed Roger Rabbit”!
Thank you for not vilifying people with BPD. Yes, there are people with BPD who do bad things and are toxic. But there are people with other disorders (NPD, PTSD, etc) who do bad things and are toxic, as well. There are groups out there dedicated to BPD hate that push the mindset of "All people with BPD are monsters." It's a terrible disorder to live with due to the complexity, the lack of understanding and the stigmas around it.
Especially the lack of understanding. All behaviours look irrational towards others because they don't understand how we feel so deeply and intensely all of the time.
Yall NPD PTSD Exc. Esp BPD should be treated as People who need help more than monsters (Esp the ones who want help) :)
There also are "normal" (neurotypical etc.) people who do bad things and are toxic - just mentioning this because the discussion made it sound otherwise (unintentionally, I am sure). :)
Even people without personality disorders can do bad things and are toxic. The reason people with personality disorders act the way they do is because they lived through trauma and they are constantly being triggered. If they are behaving in a toxic and manipulative way, it's because that's what they learnt from their parents or caregivers.
Saying that someone that has a personality disorder is a monster is like calling blacks monsters. You’re just pointing at what you don’t know and don’t understand and calling it a monster.
Thank you for approaching this topic with empathy. May is mental health awareness month, and everyone will spend it saying "stop stigma", but often BPD and other personality disorders don't get considered. People who don't have BPD may not be aware of this, but finding a therapist who will treat a person with BPD is very difficult. So telling someone "get therapy" isn't helpful. The stigma is so bad that people don't realize there are four types of BPD, and because you need 5 out of 9traits for a diagnosis there's about 256 variations. And it's more a spectrum of how they present. So, while the media presents us like Anikan, a lot of us actually are nothing like that. But, mental health professionals and society refuse to change how they see us. Videos and discussions like this are vital in ending stigma. Prefacing at the beginning that not everyone with BPD is like Anakin (and actually people with BPD are statistically more often the victims of abuse) and closing with acknowledging that it isn't something we asked for, and calling on those who care about someone with BPD to be consistent and loving helps end stigma.
That all being said, don't stay in a situation that is dangerous. Don't sacrifice yourself in the effort to try and save someone. While people with BPD, and mental illnesses in general, are no more dangerous than the general population, that doesn't mean there aren't situations that develop into abusive relationships. You can't save people. They have to want to save themselves. By being consistent and empathetic you can show them they are worthy of saving themselves, but please don't deny yourself a healthy life. And if you just can't find empathy for people with BPD or other mental illnesses, please don't add to the stigma. Don't stick around and bully us. And if you were abused by someone with BPD or another mental illness, please don't demonize the rest of us for the failings of someone else. I'm sorry they hurt you, and you didn't deserve it. But I don't deserve to be denied my humanity because of them. You aren't helping people by "warning" them about BPD. All you're doing is making it more difficult for us to get treatment and stop the vicious cycle.
There's lierally someone in the comments saying that all mental health issues can basically be cured through meditation, and the Jedi teaching was right because all fear and anger result from attachments which can be meditated away. :( I know.
Finding a therapist is very difficult indeed. The therapist I've had for years brushed me off when I came to him after noticing virtually every symptom of BPD in myself. He said depression and anxiety were enough to explain what was happening.
I feel like people try to pretend this disorder doesn't exist.
I'm extremely surprised you aren't recognizing Anakin's PTSD! He's definitely been through traumatic stress and it really hurts him, that's why the whole "I hate sand," line even happens. He is remembering nothing but the pain he had on his home planet, and being reminded of his nightmares of his mother dying.
Well there is a debate amongst psychologists on the differences and similarities between bpd and c-ptsd so it’s not weird for you to say this ha theres debate on if they’re the same thing or not.
That doesn’t equal PTSD. That equals trauma. Extreme trauma doesn’t always equal PTSD. Repeated trauma doesn’t always equal PTSD. The term PTSD is thrown around way too much these days.
C-PTSD with comorbid BPD is probably the closest to Anakin’s diagnosis, particularly in the movies. I’ve seen a handful of people say NPD, but, like, Anakin always feels too helpless and unworthy to accomplish anything great himself. I’m not saying that people with NPD couldn’t have BPD and C-PTSD, too, especially considering Anakin came from slavery, but he *never* mentions anything about wanting world domination before going dark. Even after he *does* go dark, he’s *only* ever asking people about overthrowing the Emperor and helping him rule the galaxy when he really feels like they could be a healthier attachment for him (Luke, Padme, Ahsoka, if you count TCW). Otherwise, he goes back to being Sidious’s obedient attack dog/murder slave because he doesn’t think he has a choice, he feels he deserves it for pushing away his family and friends, and safe escape and healthy support options are limited to nonexistent for him.
While people with NPD do absolutely get jealous, crave power, and crave validation, they usually pretend like they don’t need love, support, and validation. They’ll tell themselves they can accomplish amazing things by themselves, attempt to do it, and THEN seek out validation/narcissistic supply.
Even as Vader, Anakin is never in denial about wanting unconditional companionship, love, and support, and some sort of rescuer/guide to defer to. It’s why he sticks with the Emperor for as long as he does. Yeah, I know his strength is physically compromised, so it’s not this easy thing to kill Sidious anymore, but Vaderkin managed to do it in ROTJ,. If he really wanted to overthrow him and take over the galaxy himself, he could, but he doesn’t, though I think in some Legends material, he considers it. If he were really NPD, I feel like he would be more confident to kill Sidious himself, and then seek out adoration, compliance, validation, and support. I feel like he wouldn’t be able to live under an authority figure who openly treated him like garbage for 23 years, if he was NPD.
An argument can also be made that when he’s asking Padme, Luke, and Ahsoka (if you count TCW as canon) to help him overthrow the Emperor and rule the galaxy, it’s not really world domination he’s interested in obtaining, but freedom from his abuser/oppressor. That’s what it always seemed like to me in the movies.
As for wanting to rule the galaxy and help run a dictatorship, well, the Jedi/Republic Anakin grew up in wasn’t really a true democracy. It was a self-serving one that he saw left his people in the dust in slavery on the outer rims because they weren’t important to their “greater good.” Qui Gonn only took any interest at all in freeing little Anakin from slavery because he had a vision that this boy would destroy the Sith and bring balance to the force someday. Yoda more or less ran the Jedi Order like a dictatorial cult when he was growing up and made the recruits use the clones as slaves. The Jedi Order and Palpatine bred arrogance, cold and righteous violence against enemies, entitlement to power, moral hypocrisy, and exclusivity too, so any sort of those traits Anakin may have picked up he seems to have learned from Yoda, Obi-Wan, Palpatine, and the Jedi Council.
It could look like NPD, but people with C-PTSD also learn to cope unhealthily by picking up traits of their abusers/oppressors to try to survive in those abusive relationships and environments when escape seems unlikely, which it always is for Anakin.
The Jedi are like, “Oh, we get to be in a special soldier order and run the military of the Republic if we have a high midichlorian count. Normal human emotions of anger, love, desire for a personal life, fear, pity, and sympathy are ‘dangerous’ and ‘above us,’ so we’ll teach our recruits to suppress them and live in total denial of them. We can’t trust the Republic Senate with our information, but we’ll enable and perpetuate their corrupt and oppressive practices and crime, let them stay in power to keep our own power, and we’ll attempt to overthrow the head of the Senate we suspect to be a Sith ourselves by attempting to use Anakin as spy because he’s the only one the Chancellor likes and because we’re the only ones smart and worthy enough to handle them. The rest of the Senate is too narrow minded. Our way of life is never wrong and never toxic!”
They’re not as bad as the Sith, but they’re still very emotionally/psychologically abusive and oppressive, blindly extremist, self-righteous, and morally hypocritical before Luke.
I think the whole “Chosen one” belief could play into a C-PTSD symptom. Obi-Wan, Yoda, Qui-Gonn, and the Jedi Council, his abusers/oppressors spent 14 years telling him he was meant to bring balance to the force and destroy the Sith, so he may be reaching out with that whole “Rule the galaxy” proposal in the hopes that he can still achieve that from within. There’s also the fact that I’m certain the Jedi Council, particularly Obi Wan, guilt tripped Anakin into staying with the Order when he started getting disillusioned and seriously contemplated leaving before the war got underway in TCW.
A lot of fans are like “the chosen one title went to Anakin’s head because of Qui Gonn,” but Anakin actually *never* mentions it to try to get special treatment or favors from Obi Wan and the Council or skates by on it. Overconfident/arrogant in his skills and power level that he still obtained through hard works as a Jedi? Yes, at times. That is one of his flaws.
Feeling entitled to special treatment from Obi Wan, Sidious, and the Council because he was the “chosen one?” Not really.
If anything, by the time TCW comes around, Anakin’s getting tired of being labeled the “chosen one” and doesn’t want all these responsibilities that Yoda is forcing on him because he has been becoming disillusioned by his, Obi Wan’s and the Jedi Council’s bs and wants to leave. Yet, he keeps being made to feel obligated to stay by Obi Wan, Yoda, the Council, and even Padme because they’re still all he has left, he doesn’t want to let them down, and they keep wanting him to be their hero.
Anakin’s fatal flaw was that he was too afraid to stand up to corrupt authority figures and lose the limited support system he had until he broke by Revenge Of The Sith.
Anakin/Vader also has really strong Stockholm Syndrome mixed with revenge fantasies alternating in regards to Watto, Obi-Wan, and especially Palpatine/Sidious, who were his primary abusers/oppressors throughout his life. Sometimes, he’ll defend their abuse of him, their crimes, their hypocrisy, and feel like he deserves it or “it’s for the greater good” because that’s what they tell him. Other times, he’ll intensely hate them, fantasize about revenge, but very rarely ever goes through with it.
It’s a symptom of C-PTSD to feel a sense of duty to fulfill the expectations of abusers/oppressors.
Then, there’s just his whole learned helplessness, slave mindset, and reliving of trauma/emotional flashbacks. He started his life as a slave, never fully recovered from it, and the authority figures he is under in Jedi Order and Sidious both exacerbate that slave mindset in him as his abusers/oppressors. In some comics, he tries to bring Padme back from the dead in the Vader suit. He even builds his castle on Mustafar with the specific intent to bring her back. Those are all very C-PTSD like symptoms.
Sometimes, he’ll be very emotionally unstable, manic, and commit crimes blindly in a dissociative rage. Other times, he’ll be fully aware of what he’s doing, and come across as calm, cold, and self-aware in his anger when he commits crimes. It alternates back-and-forth, though he becomes more publicly self-controlled and calm after getting put in that suit. In ESB and ROTJ in particular of the OT series, you see that mania and instability that was more apparent in Anakin as a young adult come to the surface in his attempts to reach out to Luke. In “A New Hope,” he recklessly force chokes one of his men to death because their disrespect and insubordination make him angry in the heat of the moment. That’s not something most good people would do, regardless of emotional/mental health, but it’s also not something a calm, collected, methodical, premeditated, and stable serial killer would do either, which a lot of fans seem to misinterpret Anakin having become as Vader after being put in that suit.
Yeah, he learns better self-control and his capacity for empathy has been greatly diminished after years of being on the dark side, being broken by Sidious, no longer having Padme or any other friends, not being allowed to have anyone else but Sidious, and submitting himself to be Sidious’s attack dog/murder slave. However, at his core, he is still Anakin.
While he does have occasional bursts of jealousy and possessiveness in regards to his relationships with other people, it usually is centered on fear of abandonment, rather than jealousy over someone else being more powerful in the force, more rich, and more successful. Disney has been retconning this recently to prop up Obi-Wan, but in the original canon, Anakin/Vader was more of the insecure attachment jealous/possessive type of a BPD, rather than the shallow narcissistic jealous type who gets jealous over status, success, and wealth.
@@Schoolgirl325 Thank you for the much more detailed description than what I was prepared for.
@@TomoInAMask Thanks! It’s also worth noting that the dark side is like a drug that increases antisocial traits, grandiose power fantasizing, and/or twists what would otherwise be positive ones on-and-off-again in people who become addicted to it.
Before going dark, Anakin did have some power-hunger in him, but it was in a desire for protection of loved ones, himself, and freedom from oppression for himself and the slaves on his planet in a world that was constantly oppressing him. It became a bit obsessive, but never once was he talking about wanting to be rich, famous, and/or have world domination before going dark. It was about trying to gain safety because the odds were always against him whenever he DID try to stand up and do the right thing, anyway.
Then, after going dark, fantasies about unlimited power do come up on a few rare occasions, but only when he sees Luke, Padme, or Ahsoka as potential rescuers for a moment, only to go back into subservience to Sidious when they say no. Otherwise, he’ll spend time having Stockholm Syndrome with Sidious or having revenge fantasies against him.
I see some people saying NPD, but people with NPD also usually know how to gain power over their abusers by being superficially charming and cunning as adults. Anakin really isn’t that, not even as Vader. Anakin, while also becoming a perpetrator of abuse and crime against others out of fear of Obi-Wan, Jedi Council, and the Emperor, is also always in a situation where he’s being abused, manipulated, and oppressed by one of those people/groups of people who all have very arrogant, in-denial, and power hungry traits themselves. It is why I think any sort of arrogance, being in-denial, or power-hunger he seems to display could be a trauma based response to dealing with consistently abusive, manipulative, and oppressive authority figures from whom escape seems unlikely, particularly after getting put into the suit, but even before that, Anakin always is a slave in his mind.
As someone who has a parent diagnosed with BPD this tracks. Also why I ended up dating someone who also has BPD. Saw you mention is it Dr Ramani in another episode, and her videos discussing BPD are really good. As a lot of people with BPD don't stick with their therapy, as they will need lifelong. They also find it difficult because therapy can be painful, and when you struggle with your emotions, it can be too much. Or at least that is the case for the people I know with BPD, they both ended up vilifying the therapists because they set boundaries.
The self harm is actually seen in Anakin as Vader when he fuels his power in the dark side. He gets stronger through his hatred and pain. While in his suit every movement snags his skin and causes immense pain. There a lot more of self harm as Vader I can't really list it all.
And the sound of his respirator kept him awake at night. Also, it was designed to need invasive maintenance; you'd have to take apart whole sections of the suit to fix a minor problem
but that was Palpatines fault rather them his own self hatred Palpatine was the one who designed his suit to be painful not himself so it doesn't really count
I read somewhere that he also designed it to need frequent maintenance from specialists in the Empire's pay as well as being uncomfortable which I can well believe. Given the tech that exists in the Star Wars universe I think they could have done a lot more to fix Anakin's broken body. Hell they could transplant his brain/consciousness into a clone body like Palpatine himself did to resurrect himself in the old canon. They just chose not to because it kept Vader dependent on the Empire and the chronic pain fuelled his darker emotions.
@@whytho1534 Palpatine plays the role of abusive narcissistic sociopath who uses the BPD person and does everything which is possible to keep the BPD person dependent on them and suffering instead of healing and moving on.
Padme when she accepts Anakin even though he admits to being bad.
Me: *flash back to twilight*
"I'm a murderer, i don't care"
"WHY?!?!?!?!"
Abusive relationships?
When did she accept he was a murderer?
@@totallyanonymousbish9599 When he tells her he just massacred a tribe of Sand People.
A lot of reasons, in short humans can't be logical 100% of the time especially where emotions are involved, which is why the Jedi have a healthy fair of them. Love makes evil actions reasonable.
Also it was revenge for his mother who was tortured, also sand people aren't considered sentient like human and other humanoids are.
Also objectively, everyone of us is related to barbarians and cold-blooded killers in our ancestry, hell history is full of them
@@robertmiller9735 sand "people" she has never met, only heard of in the context of Shmi's kidnapping and torture. So that's not really an argument that can be made against her.
Actually you could argue that Anakin is into self-harm. When he's Vader he's offered an upgrade in his suit, to be more agile and it would ease up on his pain. But he purposely chooses his run down suit because he's in constant pain, making his power from the dark side become more powerful
You never know when someone is trying to combat depression and suicidal thoughts especially for men when they’re forced to shove those emotions away, support your family (which Anakin mistakenly couldn’t do) like imagine having visions of your wife’s death thinking that you can control it by becoming what the vision means.
He would’ve probably died. That’s not self harm. That’s self preservation
There was another reason Vader turned down upgrading his suit. To fully be transferred to the new suit, Vader would have to be taken off life support, leaving him extremely vulnerable.
his impulsive and reckless behaviours can be classed as a form of self-harm as well
I am so grateful for this episode. Most of videos I see about bpd just portrays it as being horrible person and that there is no hope. I have bpd and hearing all of this negative things makes me me feel even worse. It’s good to see someone not saying you are horrible for ones
I'm homeless, broke, and hopeless I can't afford therapy but this...this video as well as the loki video and strangely the megamind video have really helped me. Not expecting a response but I really wanna say I appreciate what you two are doing and I hope to see more.
I was homeless.
I wish you the very best luck random online stranger.
hey friend. its a couple minths later, but us fellow cinema therapy watchers are rooting for you! be the best there is in whatever you do and youll make it
praying to God you push through this
@@turnage_michael good to know
I was just diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and anakin is my comfort character. I'm having a hard time with this. Thank you for this
I was diagnosed at 24 but I was 16 when this movie came out. I had never related to a characters emotions more fiercely. It's now as an adult that I can see it's because I was developing and exhibiting BPD. Since then Anakin has been my favourite character, ever. Also, know that you can get better and although it can feel utterly helpless at times with BPD, you are not alone, and there are always people out there, myself included who would rather have you reach out in any moment then suffer in silence. Too many times I've done that, believing the lies BPD forces us to tell ourselves. There is hope
I'm sorry you're having a hard time. I just want you to know that you're an individual. A diagnosis is great for helping to find tools and support that have worked for other people with similar traits, but remember it's just a template. There is only one you and you're in charge of your own fate. Congrats on seeking out help and support though, it isn't easy. Usually people with bpd have been through some stuff so remember how strong you are. I'm sure you're an amazing person and I know you deserve unconditional love.
As someone with BPD ive always struggled watching the star wars movies for this exact reason, if the character wasnt created with the illness in mind then its shocking how well he fits the bill
agreed. I myself never realized how many boxes that checks for me either or anakin. I just always related to and had a strong Fandom for vader
Honestly this video made me realise how I liked Anakin so much and how I related to him. It just makes sense when someone says he’s showing BPD symptoms. Also...... it feels like a callout video to me 💀💀
I am a combat veteran and I noticed from the many therapists and psychologists I've had over the years that I also am on the border of Borderline Personality Disorder, on top of PTSD, Anxiety Disorder and Depression. I can identify with Anakin.
"Will you truly stay, cause I can't feel safe about you in my life until I know you'll stay. So I have to push you hard to see if you will." ... My god that hit so close to home.
"When someone shows you that they love you, believe them." Quote of the year holy moly
I have my issues with the prequels but Anakin's character is one of things I admire a lot about them. He's not a cut and paste protagonist, and his downfall isn't meant to be sudden or even tragic. The whole story is the tragedy, not just the part where he becomes Vader. He was doomed from the start, and the audience is watching a train wreck and there's nothing they can do about it. Anakin's fall was probably not a surprise to anyone who knew him, even Obi-Wan and Padme. I think deep down, if they are honest with themselves they would be like "yeah this makes a lot of sense"
I completely agree. They never made Anakin the perfect hero in the prequels and that made him more relatable and lead to a much more understandable transition. He wasn't corrupted by Palpatine. He was encouraged and influenced by him. Anakin's character never changed, only his actions. And his actions were highly influenced by other's approval and advice.
It would be a lot more compelling if Anakin were somehow a more likable character, though, or had *something* to recommend him.
@vinemaple He loves his mom and his son?
I used to date someone with Borderline Personality Disorder. She did some messed up stuff. I didn't know how to handle the situations she would cause. It was just a horrible a experience. I hope she was able to get the help that she needed. It was a much needed lesson of patience and learning to let go for me.
My ex would do the same and she would play victim afterwards and I didn't know how to handle it and after 6 months of this I grew tired of it and annoyed so I ditched her.
@@Dead_Hitori If you look into BPD their relationships only last like exactly 6 months. I dated one too. Same timeline lol
I had a close friend who had it, and I didn't know how to draw effective boundaries. I just didn't have the assertiveness skills at the time. And let me tell you, it was tough. It eventually blew up in my face and were not friends anymore but I know much of it wasn't her fault and I do wish her the best
I am currently in a relationship with someone with bpd. Her emotions are so hard to soften, but I manage to do it almost every time. I fear the day I will not be able to help, or the day she explodes on me... but I also see her "sparks", which are exactly what Vader does in the end. And those sparks are magnificents.
@@mimoune5778 That's how it was with this girl I was close with, she was super chill one minute, the next it was like riding the crazy bus straight into Nut Town.
I just realized that Anakin's character trajectory is very similar to Arthur Fleck's in The Joker: both were mentally ill people whom the system failed, they didn't get the therapy and help CLEARLY needed. And both of them eventually snapped.
"When Anakin rages Luke stays calm"
Vader's amputated hand: Am I a joke to you?
It's hard to stay calm sometimes. That doesn't negate all the other times he did stay calm. He was still learning and developing his strength of patience. It's a process.
Not to Luke. He sees what he did to Vader, looks at his own artificial hand & is like, oh. Brilliant acting there
The difference here is that Luke realized what was happening and calmed himself down. Did he cut of his Dad's hand? Yes. But he didn't kill him. Anakin did not have that kind of emotional control. Luke was showing him that yes, he also can get mad. But he can also stop. Anakin crossed the line Luke gave him. Luke gave him the consequences, but showed he still loved him.
I never realized how critical and shitty Obi Wan is the entire time until you guys pointed it out.
Obi wan is not a psychologidt
Have you seen clone wars?
@@whateverwhatever4476 I have not. I am only talking about him in the context of episodes 1, 2 and 3
@@whateverwhatever4476 he was kind of douche in Clone Wars as well, like not letting Anakin save R2. The whole Jedi council is kind of douchy
i mean, it is just like a sibling relationship. it isnt rlly meant to be that harsh
I am *so* glad I clicked on this. I was intrigued by the topic and was instantly drawn in by your delivery, content, and quality.
-a physician in the midwest
As someone with BPD, it sucks that most representation are villains, but I'm glad that they exsist. I'm glad they exsist as a talking point so people like you two can bring this condition to light and breathe life and humanity into the condition. It's a struggle being seen as only the villian, or crazy, or some killer.
yes. Every human is capable of horrible things, mentally ill or not; at the same time, people would never break like this if they had the support and care they needed from the start. I love that not only do they breathe humanity into these villains, but they also directly state: to prevent someonee from getting to this point, *this is exactly what we could do*. To save someone who's already at this point, *there is something we can do*. Instead of just passing people off as unfixable "because they're villains", they guys literally state outright; this condition can be helped. These traumas can be healed. This personality disorder can be recovered from. This illness needs treatment. Nobody just "decides to turn evil". There is always a pattern of societal failures and betrayals that leads up to violence. People just want to ignore the obvious warning signs to be able to say "oh it's just *that* kind of person, *they* are always bad".
I adore this channel :)
To be fair especially with Clone Wars plus some parts of the films, there is a lot of Anakin being a hero
honestly, some of the best characters out there are villains. heroes are just an idealistic representation of what a person can be, and sometimes it's impossible to reach that ideal. but villains... are real. they experience every emotion, every struggle. they're not perfect and not ideal, but they're real. and we can learn from them as well. we can choose to perpetuate their good things, and learn how to avoid/change the bad ones.
I havent been diagnosed yet with BPD (due to having little to no money to pay for a therapist), but my mother (who has been diagnosed with BPD) believes that I do have BPD. I always thought I was a bad person for relating to villains so much, but the fact that the ones I relate to have BPD symptoms makes me feel less like a horrible person.
@@septicember I just want to add, that BPD is a lot like alcoholism in that if the person isn't willing to get help, or change their behaviors, that its very easy to end up enabling them in not getting help, for BPD they can become energy vampires.
I had one who when told by a psychologist she was codependent, tried to make it out to be a "love language" that I needed to accommodate and didn't see is as a problem that needed to be fixed. (And she never once tried to accommodate my love languages).
There's nothing we can do for a person who is too terrified to change.
Also, I was dealing with my own trauma so the clinging, was seriously triggering to me. So, just because someone needs help, doesn't mean you're the one with the tools to do so.
Love Anakin Skywalker, by far my favorite star wars character alongside Darth Vader.
I dont hate people who hate the prequels because I get their criticism, however I believe they are no where near as bad as people make out to be, same goes with Hayden's acting as Anakin was perfect.
One thing this video definitely points out - How well written Luke's character was in the OT.
Jonathan here. As I said, I enjoy the prequels and find a lot to like there.
@@CinemaTherapyShow I know, Sorry if it sounded like I was having a dig at the both of you, Was just speaking in general.
One of my step kids has bpd. It was a long tough battle, I met her around 5, and things started getting rough in her early teens.. The book, and the words "I hate you, don't leave me" completely changed my life in regards to living with and loving someone with bpd.
Given how hyper excited he always got whenever he discovered he had kids, running around loudly declaring to everyone and everything that I HAVE A SON!!, I'd say he probably just had a strong love for family :)
Freshman in college, possible psych major, loves Star Wars and basically all movies, finds this channel: WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN MY WHOLE LIFE!?