Does Fallout's "Rule of Thumb" Work?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 เม.ย. 2024
- Is #fallout 's famous Vault Boy actually hiding some accurate nuclear blast survival tactics? Is your thumb a vital piece of equipment in the event of nuclear war? Can it be used as a legitimate way to know if you’ll survive? Noted Nuclear Zaddy Kyle Hill determines whether or not an iconic Fallout image is fact or internet fiction.
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*Thanks for watching!* What else in the show should we science?
I heard that it was if your thumb was _wider_ than the _stem_ of the cloud.
with all the mini nuclear reactors they had running everything from cars to robots, do you think the radioactivity of the wasteland would be as long as the game says?
the Power Armors and Super Mutants!!
@@jaackaboytheiii1107 As long as those mini reactors remained intact I´d say no. If they got damaged however they would essentially become dirty bombs with very short-lived radioactivity and not very far-reaching.
Radioactive half life in bodies of water
If I'm ever in a position to ask myself "Am I too close to that nuclear explosion?" I'm gonna just straight up go with "yes"
Probably wise
I go with “no”
@@alex.g7317exactly. Depends on if you identify as organic or inorganic
@@j7... I identify as an identification.
I literally can't think of a more fitting situation for the phrase: better safe than sorry.
"My thumb or your thumb?!" is a gut punch line coming from a kid to their parent.
That opening scene hurt. I know it's fiction, but my God....All I could see was my own daughter asking me that question.
that intro gave me chills tbh.
Rule of thumb is used in perspective. The idea being that your thumb to arm ratio will be the same as others if they're different sizes than you. It's why you see artists holding up their thumbs and seafaring used it too. So, the very tragic part is supposed to be that if she's asking, it's too big. Her thumb is perspectively the same as a larger person because her arm is shorter. The point isn't the science, it's that she asked.
I felt myself asking my dad, knowing the silence that would follow...
@@youtubinanshit
What was your question?
How does your sperms count?
The dark humor is my favorite part… everyone giving the nuke a thumbs up on their way out is hilarious
😳👍
It's also more subtle humour, rather than telling the audience what it is, or being too crude about it.
A far darker twist to the story, the thumbs up is giving legal consent to being vaporized...😮
@@VeeCyberpunki like the idea of if you put your thumb down in front of a nuke it just wont affect you
As was my intent lol but on the darker side consider the underlying tone suggested, that world leaders squabble then people that aren't even involved in the argument pay the price... it's a mad world we live in.
Even if I’m perfectly safe, I’m still sprinting in the other direction
Dont. If you see a cloud and you are still alive, then it wont kill you anyway. Get yourself a mask, swimming goggles, some water filters and go opposite to wind direction.
Unless you aren't. That's the real problem with this method. It's post-hoc, merely meant to give you a feeling of control when it's all up to the whims of your betters how close you are to an explosion... since you can only do this after it's gone off and well... by then it's too late to do anything with that information if you are even in a position to gather that information to begin with. When it comes to nuclear war, the only winning move is to move to the middle of nowhere, a completely uninteresting nonstrategic location. This is also the best survival strategy for plague and zombies and roaming raiders... but then there's the tradeoff. The total isolation from social structures means no help if you injure yourself in a much more likely mundane way. And then there's the encroaching madness of hermitage
Not smart. Nukes never hit the same place twice. The safest place during a nuclear explosion is actually in the blast radius
@@12mmratchet84 Oh right! Also, the radiation only gathers on the north side of tree bark, and if you get any radiation on you, you need to get someone to suck it out.
Wouldn't cover be more effective? I'd imagine running would get you far less safety because you're just exposing yourself in a sprint and only covering like a quarter-mile tops
I love that Kyle is so dedicated to realism that he nuked an entire city just to test a theory
He just made sure nobody in that settlement no longer will need his help, ever again.
@@FM-kl7oc "A settlement needs your help!"
"I have permanently removed this settlements need for help."
He's not a supervillain.
He's very stupid about the ghouls video
@@andromedagalaxy6369your fun at parties huh
It must be so ominous being just far enough that it gets uncomfortably warm
it must be great being in a walmart just close enough for all the frozen food to get perfectly cooked
@@ASlickNamedPimpback great for the food, not great if you don't want to get perfectly cooked yourself
Only cockroaches can survive @@Faizan29353
I saw an interview with a Soviet scientist who witness the Tsar Bomba blast. He was very far away, I forget how far but it was on the scale of at least a hundred miles or more. He said the most terrifying thing was feeling the heat of it on his face. He did not expect it to be that hot from that far away. Yeah, F that noise.
Imagine being far enough away that you ask yourself "Did I leave the fan off?", and then finding out about it shortly after. Just like, fan on, heater off, blinds closed, and then realizing that the bright light that made you think the blinds were open in the first place isn't sunlight, and oh hey the nearest city is gone.
I always thought of it as a psychological trick to calm people's nerves. Give them something to do and a vague sense of control of the situation.
"This trick might save your life"
What the hell am I gonna do, run?
yes, hop on a horse and run for your life
Something somebody without some real speed would say 🥱. I'm pumping the jets
jokes aside, drop behind cover, flat to the ground, cover your ears and open your mouth. If you're far enough, this avoids most of the damage from the blast wave.
Why open mouth?@@23AlexandreJ
@@RADscouter the pressure wave from the blast must pass through your head somehow. If you open your mouth, it will have a big free path to go through without major harm. If you don't, the pressure wave will make a path, going through your eardrums and rupturing them.
I figured the thumb thing went alongside "Duck and Cover". Something to make people kind of feel safer before they end up as shadows on the concrete.
It has the opposite effect though as people who would be at a safe distance from the explosion would do the rule of thumb and then think they are dead
@@bielknife It's the activity of it. Most of this kind of well meaning propaganda was all things people 'can do' in a situation where they have no real control over the situation. Hell, it honestly works as most people would do what they did in the first episode and try to get the hell out of there. That's still good advice because the hiroshima/nagasaki event is the only time where only one side will be lobbing nukes. And, like the first episode showed, where one fell, its likely more were to follow, so run while you can.
Duck and Cover was mainly for people stuck in the overpressure areas, to protect them from flying/falling debris.
Bah. Duck and Cover gets a bad wrap. It was descent advice for an attack with Atomic bombs delivered by airplane.
@@2centschange That and it also had the added benefit of people remaining stationary. In an emergency situation in a crowded area, the majority of injuries aren't from falling debris, fire, smoke, etc. It's from people hurting one another in their panic to escape. Even if it weren't though, ya gotta tell the people SOMETHING so they feel like they have SOME kind of control. Basically social conditioning to pacify the anxious masses so they don't freak out, even if the threat never actually materializes. It doesn't do MUCH, but then again there's not much any gov't institution can UNIVERSALLY teach people do during an emergency. Nuclear bombs? If it gets to that point we're all screwed anyways, so might as well give people the best advice we can for ANY kind of emergency: tornado, earthquake, plane crash, etc. (and if they package it with simple animation & a catchy jingle it'll apparently last for over half a century). It's not gonna do much to save people from getting cooked like a hot pocket, but at least they're not gonna trample each other before then. One of the truest lines ever uttered on film: "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it."
I am just going to presume all nuclear explosions are labeled, "if you can read this, you're too close." You get pretty much the same result.
It would probably be so large that there would be people too close to read it
It'd be cool if they could lens the x-rays so the fireball has the imprint of like, a logo or something in it
@@isbestlizard I really hate the idea of branded nukes, but you made me laugh. +1.
@@samgordon9756 Printed "THIS SIDE TOWARDS THE ENEMY" all around it.
@@carloshenriquezimmer7543let's be real it'd be anime tiddies
Imagine everyone in your neighborhood (who knows about and believes in the Rule of Thumb) is chilling at the park, you included, and a mushroom cloud drops. Everyone looks at the explosion and gives a thumbs up, you stand confused, thinking they are mocking the people who died at that moment.
If it makes you feel better, you can use a thumbs down. It's the same size so just as effective, and you get to stick it to the spectre of nuclear annihilation as a bonus.
2:14
Thing is, I'm pretty sure that according to Fallout's lore, the bombs that fell during the Great War were particularly designed to favor radioactive Fallout instead of a potent blast.
So maybe on that context, the rule of thumb could hold more ground when it comes to surviving the scattered fallout.
Yeah it's never explicitly stated but it is HEAVILY implied in the games that china dropped the bombs because after the US invented power armor they started roflstomping them. I think it is more than likely that the lore was changed because muh politics.
The fact it doesn't work makes it that much more believable for Vault-Tec.
It does work. Like "Duck and Cover" (the real US slogan of the 50s) it's only purpose is to give the population peace of mind by giving them a simple rule to follow. "See, nothing to fear. If it's further away than this it's safe. Otherwise run for the vault and come back out in a few months. Everything is fine, nothing to worry."
@@Oktokolo Duck and Cover can protect you from parts of the blast wave, particularly flying glass and debris. The light travels faster than the shockwave, but it's still mere moments. Better than nothing. Maybe save some lives at the edges of the blast zone. It's probably more useful if you see the bomb being dropped or the missile incoming.
@@Oktokolo So kinda like WW2 Keep Calm and Carry On.
Right? It's honestly pretty par for the course haha
@@joseph1150 or hear the sirens
I'd just hide in a lead-lined fridge but I guess I'm just built different.
The acceleration will paste you, but you will receive a lower dose of radiation.
I think OP might be referencing that one scene from that 2008(?) Indiana Jones movie lol@@samgordon9756
Make sure you can open it from the inside. Else you're stuck until some vault dweller comes and helps you out.
Or he will become a mommy future archaeologist will make fun of @@1987jaffa
@@samgordon9756Not if you’ve got duct tape 😉
Fun fact:
At a very specific distance from a nuclear explosion all frozen foods are cooked to perfection.
And at another separate specific distance all non frozen foods and even living creatures (including people) are also cooked to perfection..
I refer to everything in between these two specific distances (or lines for visualization sake) "The Flavor Zone"
Nuketown? I prefer Flavortown
This is just blatantly not how it works.
Also fun fact.
If you are at another specific distance from a nuclear explosion you can grab yourself a magnifine glass and light your cigar with it in the most dope way ever.
@@GogiRegion I mean it literally is. It's thermodynamics. It's why you can pan sear meat and then let it rest to let the heat dissipate and it will continue to cook the center. Food would be cooked. But because the thermal radiation is a rather short timespan, I can't see how bigger food items would be cooked without the outside burning. The char would have to be legendary.
@@GogiRegion It’s like saying you can put a frozen turkey in the oven at 9000 degrees for a second and think it’s cooked. What you get is ash covered frozen turkey. It’s literally still freezing just below the surface like meteorites that streak through the sky ant thousands of degrees and fall still frozen to the ground.
I would've figured the "Rule of Thumb" for a deliberate joke--a cutesy mascot giving you useless advice for surviving something that you probably won't survive. It's like Duck and Cover.
To be fair, if the mushroom cloud is smaller than your thumb you are in fact safe so it isn't wrong per say.
Technically correct!
The best kind of correct.
yeah, but i think if someone sees the cloud they will understand(hopefully) pretty quick that this is bigger than their finger
But it's still useless because, as stated, if you aren't dead or maimed from the blast in the first place, the only thing that's likely to get you is the fallout, so all you really need to do is measure wind and figure out what precautions to take from there. You wouldn't just put your thumb up and go "well I'm downwind but, eh"
@@ULTRAOutdoorsman But then you can lick your thumb to determine wind direction and skedaddle in the opposite direction. It all comes back around to thumbs!
I was stationed at Malmstrom AFB in the late 80s. Our "rule of thumb" at base weather was in the case of nuclear attack was to put the lawn chairs out on the flight line, break out the beer, and get a million degree tan.
Exactly. If you can see the cloud, you're pretty much fucked unless the wind is hurricane level away from you.
@@aliengranpa Did we watch different videos? I thought Kyle just demonstrated that not only is there a safe distance to see the blast, but you can actually be *closer* than Fallout says.
@@chiloutdude5130 Malmstrom AFB is also a missile base, meaning it would be heavily targeted in the event of a large-scale nuclear exchange. There really wouldn't be ANY distance that you could get to that would be safe in the time it would take for a first or retaliatory strike to reach the base, so you really wouldn't have to bother with trying to get away. Your fate is pretty much sealed at a missile base once the missiles start flying, so you might as well put your feet up.
@@allurbase1000 Too true what with every missile silo or hardened hanger on base getting its own hundred kiloton care package airmailed but I think he was taking exception to that other commenter generally contradicting the idea there can be a relatively safe viewing distance (just obviously not if you're standing at ground zero of the next Boom-Boom.)
@allurbase1000 Especially since not only did we know the Soviets had Malmstrom as a target, but we had Intel that said we were targeted for sub-surface burst. Like one of the forecasters I worked with would put it; "they were going for the gophers". I was reminded of this every time I prepared an EWO package.
I always interpreted this as a way to determine if you should shelter in place from the aftermath of a nuke or try to evacuate. if you're in the immediate danger zone, then this will do nothing and you will be dead before you realize what happened. if youre outside the immediate blast radius and survive, now you need to figure out if you should try to evacuate or shelter in place. if it is bigger than your thumb but you survived the blast, find a basement or somewhere underground and sheltered, grab as much supplies as you can indoors or hopefully you already have some stashed away, and wait out any potential fallout (3 to 5 weeks). if it is smaller than your thumb you can likely try to evacuate safely and get farther away from ground zero.
I always figured he was measuring the size. My great grandfather was a merchant marine, and he would sometimes measure the waves like that, or show us how to navigate using our hands like the old sailors.
"As far as I see, there is a settlement that needs help with your Physics lecture. Here, I'll mark it on your map"
New York
It's like "duck & cover" - if people are told what to do, they will panic less. Even if what they are told to do makes no difference.
who said duck and cover doesn't work...
duck and cover is actually sound advice. Yeah its not going to help you if youre close to the epicenter, but nothing is. And most people affected arent (the area affected grows quadratically with distance). Most deaths, ignoring fire, are from the winds and low overpressure collapsing the building, but those arent enough to kill, or even significantly hurt you. Its the rocks, from the building, falling on your head thats going to do that. ducking under a table, like with earthquakes, can significantly reduce injury and mortality.
Since any counter-value (targeting cities as opposed to military infrastructure) strike will be a high yield airburst, neither fallout or radiation (in the usual sense, i.e. ionizing radiation) will be an issue. Its all either the thermal radiation or the blast doing all the damage. If youre close enough for the ionizing radiation to be an issue, youve been already vaporized by the thermal radiation, and vaporized the blast. Thermal radiation also isnt going to be a huge issue with high yield blasts, especially in more western cities which are primarily made from concrete as opposed to more flammable substances.
So to reiterate, duck and cover because thats going to help against the number one thing that can hurt you, the blast and its side effects. Try to keep your mouth open to avoid eardrum damage. But the radiation isnt going to be a concern really, besides causing fires and flash blindness.
Its a different story if youre in the fallout range of a strike against a hardened target, as those are ground bursts, but the other advice you get is to "shelter in place", which is what you should do then, as most of the radiation will be gone after a few hours. How soon you want to leave your shelter depends on how well it serves as such (basically how thick of concrete you have). Usually a couple hours for a not well suited area to two weeks for a dedicated shelter. Basically try to get underground and wait for the worst radiation to pass, which happens relatively quickly.
“Duck and cover” is useful for conventional weapons and earthquakes, supposedly to help you survive long enough so that rescuers can save you from the rubble. Staying put in some emergencies is better than running (this assumption is one of the MANY reasons Grenfell Tower was such a disaster; people were told to stay put instead of evacuate). Problem is that it doesn’t take into account, you know, a mushroom cloud and radiation.
Like emergency exits on airplanes
Do you mean Like a Mask?😁
Not to mention, the light from the blast can blow out your eyes from that 'safe' distance.
So staring at a nuclear blast to check if its bigger than your thumb isn't a great idea.
That wouldn’t apply. Unless you knew where the blast was going to occur. The bast happen, and you then look, you are safe from eye damage. If you happen to be looking at the target area when the bast occurs, your retinas are fried instantly.
@@dr.robertjohnson6953 how do you know this guy's thumb isn't faster than the speed of light?
kidding, thanks for injecting some logic here.
The whole rule is nonsensical. The blastwave goes around the speed of sound and the cloud will still be rising by the time whatever's gonna hit you hits you. There's no right time to apply it, it doesn't take aerial or ground detonation into account, it doesn't help you at all. It's just baffling dogmatization of some stuff a support artist drew for Fallout Tactics.
Sure, agreed. But also a very good parallel to the real life duck and cover.
It isnt about saving lives, it is about reducing panic at the moment.
Put your oxygen mask on as the plain crashes and such.
@ULTRAOutdoorsman
Plane*
This was awesome! Thanks for the info. 1950s nuclear prep was insane. My parents did those stupid drill. "Alright kids, hide under your wooden desks to protect yourselves from the deadly fire bomb..." Whatever helps you sleep I guess.
Not so much protection from the bomb blast, but protection from falling objects.
Still teach people to do the same thing in earthquakes.
“This information is useless” but if I have time to check then I’m already in the safe zone so technically it works
I think the thumb thing is a derivative of an actual method to approximate distance. If you know the size of the target, how many times your thumb fits in it will give you a rough assessment of the distance(I don't think it works with a nuclear marshroom)
If you have time to check them you’re in the “safe for now” zone
the thumbs-up method is really for downwind fallout. you have 15 mins iirc to close doors/windows and secure large amounts of water before the fallout blows to your area. after two weeks, most of the particularly-dangerous spicy dust will have decayed enough to be less dangerous, and you can more safely go outside.
In Navy CBRN training, we were specifically told that the rule was for downwind fallout - and that reduced fallout doesn't mean no fallout. The rule was a guide in that inside the downwind fallout track, you had roughly 15 to 20 minutes to secure shelter and prepare to bunker in for two weeks while letting the bulk of the short-lived fission products decay.
Thats what I was thinking trying to remember my CBRN classes in the USMC
That makes more sense 👍
I remember a rule of thumb in fire fighter hazmat training too. Something about if you are upwind and can cover the scene with your thumb, you are a safe distance away.
Yeah. Given the guy talking about it in the scene was a Marine and referencing USMC training, my interpretation of it was either "propaganda to keep the grunts from running away after the blastwave and thermal pulse has passed" or downwind fallout.
Or both, given what I've read about Soviet front line nuclear doctrine.
U have 15-20 min to build & prepare a bunker to survive in for 2wks is alot.
#1) that's almost guaranteed that it won't be up to code.
#2) enough food & water for u & however many ppl w/ u for at least 2wks? Ppl can go hunting/fishing all day & come back empty handed.
My nearest grocery store is a 15min drive away from my house. Guess we're just staying there.
i was a firefighter for decades and every year we re-upped our hazmat training. we had a rule of thumb for chemical spills. if you couldnt cover the nearest unconscious police officer w your thumb you were too close
😂
Imagine flying overhead when a bomb goes off, looking down and seeing all the people in the city standing there holding out their thumbs towards the blast
I think the "rule of thumb" follows the mantra of "better safe than sorry". If you can be closer, its not the worst thing to be farther
I think in general staying as far away from a nuclear explosion as possible is sound life advice. Never a bad idea to get further away from it if reasonable to do so. 😀
It's not actually a thing, though. Never has been. It's a misunderstanding of something from the EMS/Hazmat world - it was never applied to actual explosions in progress for all the reasons Kyle outlines.
@@skepticalbadger Yes, I did watch the video. My point is that if you use it, you'll still be safe. At worst you've had to travel some distance unnecessarily.
"Duck and cover"
@@MaeBeemaybe, but if your underground bunker with enough food for a year is a mile towards the blast and still smaller than your thumb, maybe it would be worth the risk.
“Just like Preston Garvey… don’t need it, don’t want it”
Ouch! Preston felt that all the way in Concord
And he can stay there 😂
-General, another settle-
-Shush Preston.
Preston Garvey didn't like that
Another settlement needs your help. Let me mark it on your map.
I'm sure he's gonna tell us about it too
The way I heard about this "rule of thumb" was to determine if you needed to bug out to avoid fallout or if you should shelter in place. I forget if I saw this in one of the many nuclear war related books or documentaries I read/saw in late 80s to 2000s when I was very interested in nuclear war and survival. Now I'm to old and soft to want to survive.
this generation thinks they're more informed "cause the internet" when we were getting actual education on channels like PBS and the history channel (when it was still about history) and BOOKS but let them tell us all we're the ones making up lies
The version I remember reading originally was for shelter in place or evacuate to escape potential radioactive fallout from smaller nuclear weapons.
"The rule of thumb" is definitely taught in hazmat response classes (not just nuclear explosions... chemical spills, fires, etc)
How would you use it if the threat is invisible to the naked eye...??
Yeah, doesn't work. They just want people dying at least giving a thumbs up.
@@MannyJazzcats Well, for starters it's a very rough guideline, mostly intended to impress upon folks that this stuff is dangerous and "distance" is important. Even with invisible threats though, there is still typically some physical thing (an overturned tanker, a leaking tank, etc) that it can be applied to
@MannyJazzcats if your thumb is melting, you're too close
If they are teaching that in hazmat response classes, that instructor needs to be fired.
Chemical spills, etc, can (and usually do) put hazardous particles into the air which then brings into play the downwind hazard area which would totally make gauging safety with a thumb useless if not laughable.
According to everything I heard here , if I am far enough away from a nuclear detonation that my outstretched thumb covers the mushroom cloud, I am most definitely a safe distance away. The question wasn't "will your thumb cover the mushroom cloud at the minimum safe distance from ground zero?" It was "if my thumb covers the mushroom cloud am I at a safe distance from ground zero?" He determined in this video that , at the minimum safe distance, your thumb would not cover the mushroom cloud. However, the farther you are from something, the smaller it appears. Therefore, if I am not at minimum safe distance, but I am far enough away that my thumb actually covers the mushroom cloud, then I am most definitely far enough away to be considered safe. This doesn't take into account windborn radioactive particles, etc. This only accounts for direct and immediate effects of the detonation itself. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk, I will not be taking questions.
**EDIT : Thank you all for the (at the current moment) 1.2k likes ! I really appreciate them, and you all.**
another commenter put it something like this: if it's bigger than your thumb, you've got 20 minutes to not get irradiated *downwind (forgot to include this)
Why would you say something so yet so controversial?
Exactly my thoughts as well. Proved the meme accurate... But tried saying it's wrong. 😅😅
This is the way I have always thought of it
I mean, it is a literal rule of thumb. Those are generally not supposed to be accurate, just a guideline
I know exactly where he was at when he was showing the visualization of downtown Los angeles! I go there all the time for panoramic photos on my phone. He's at the Jerome c Daniel overlook that's just above the Hollywood bowl right off the 170 freeway. I recognized those red poles as soon as the scene flashed over! Lol
i noticed that the map details say it is for a 15 kiloton explosion...that was about the hiroshima bomb. nagasaki was about 20 kilotons...cold war icbm warheads are/were between 100 to more than 300 kilotons! and those missles had 10-12 warheads of those!!! so a city would be hit by several at once...so easily 1000 kilotons...and that radius on the map is for 15kt....
so...probably...what i wanted to say...is: ouch....
Wow.... that demonstration you gave at the end as to how close you can be, was waaaay closer than I ever thought. If I saw a nuclear blast that close or maybe even the double distance from it, I would have thought that I was just dead...
It is also very nice to know that the radiation is actually not the biggest threat. It is still pretty bad to be vaporized ofc, but I think that I, like most, fear radiation poisoning more.
Yeah, that's what you are conditioned to think, along with everything else they teach you to convince you that as soon as a nuclear weapon is used the world as we know it will come to an end.
"Dont look directly at the blast"
"Now look at it and give it a thumbs up"
"Why you still looking at it? RUN!"
You do the thumb thing with the cloud, not the blast, which you're unlikely to react to in any meaningful way in time
😂😂
don't look at the flash.
its the flash you are not supposed to look at because is like 100X brighter than the sun and will blind you. The thumbs up thing, if it worked, would be between the blast and when the shockwave hit. Honestly you don't ahve much time though, so you are probabyl better off jsut assuming its too close and hitting the deck anyway. Worst case you took cover for nothing.
Why can I see the bones in my thumb ? 😢
I'd argue that just being able to see any part of the blast is too close.
Pretty much.
What about those guys that stood under a nuclear blast? Nothing happened to them and they could see it.
@@jimmac1185 yeah but that was airburst, and so didn't create very much fallout. But a ground detonation could create fallout stretching hundreds of miles.
It kind of depends. In “flat” terrain, the visibility of anything may be determined by the curvature of the earth and your own elevation, so a person in the foothills of the Rockies might see a nuclear blast in the Midwest that’s hundreds of miles away. If the wind is at their back, they’ll be safe.
@camam, nope. Nuclear weapons produce little fallout, it's not like nuclear power plants. What fallout there is from bombs will be livable after just 2 weeks and will be gone in month. The 2 weeks you can just stay at home if it's whole. Your much more likely to freeze or starve in nuclear winter then die from radiation if you survive in first place.
I was always under the assumption that the explosion was too close to vault 111 to stay clean during the intro. You can see the shock wave and even the physical effects first hand. If you are close enough to get a physical shockwave, you're also close enough for the less visible effects.
I always assumed the same, but then he clearly showed in the video that the radiation effects fall off after a _much_ shorter distance than the blast effects, so I guess we were both wrong.
@@TheDelinear that's the "fun" of radiation: the more reactive it is, the shorter it's "range".
Hi, as explained on a terminal entery in (i think its fallout2 (so before Bethesda)), if the blast is wider than your outstretched thumb and the wind is in your face you must seek shelter from the radiationcloud(fallout). aka the wind will pick up particals and travel them to you, so its not primarly for the blast (even thou you also would be safe if the blast is smaller than your thumb)
another thing to consider about the fallout universe is the bombs they used are canonically extremely dirty by comparison even to our universe's fat man/little boy. so even with an airburst detonation, the nuclear fallout is a much greater threat than it is with our nuclear weapons
So what you,re saying is that the explosion itself is weaker than the real life bombs but they produces more radiation per detonation?
@tauceti8060 exactly.
The series is also based on comic book pop-science anyways.
In reality in such a situation, humanity would either be extinct or would have recovered centuries ago (exchange was in 2075, games take place in 2500's).
@@allengordon6929 there's plenty of self sus bunkers I think humanity isn't leaving
unless whoever makes the bombs is someone purely evil@@allengordon6929
@@iwastherobloxianminecrafter there's plenty of claimed self "sus" bunkers that contractors are willing to sell you
The thumb thing is a comfort thing I believe. Like how they used to tell people to hide under their desk or newspaper if they see a nuke. It's all to give comfort to people so they could believe they could save themselves
But that did work. If you're not in the vaporization radius which was fairly small, an atomic weapon in airburst form kills with shrapnel. The building's windows blasted in or local trees turned into a shower of javelins.
Like, people don't seem to understand that ducking for cover under something solid meant there was a way lower chance something would fall on you and just brain you lol
@@sunrisejackdaw1779 Thumb thing doesn't work. If every thumb is a different size and everyone's height and arm length are different...not to mention arm position....it is nonsense.
@@matthewsommerville8911 they arent talking about the thumb
@matthewsommerville8911 Exactly. My friend and I are the same age but he's a foot taller and his thumb is bigger and is arm is longer even though we're both adults.
Too much variation.
@@zxyatiywariii8If it's far enough away for it to be covered by anyone's thumb, or most covered, then you're probably fine. Of course, if it's the only one.
To be fair, since the "safe" area is so much closer than the rule of thumb says, it's not strictly wrong
The question "Which travels the farthest?" is a very funny question to me, a Europpean, who wasn't born when Tchernobyl happened but has been taught about it in school. Like the radiation traveled SO FAR though. So even before you finished the question, it was already funny to me, knowing you would say radiation doesn't go far
I had no idea about the real science behind the fallout, and how ineffective the 'rule of thumb' is.
well, going by what kyle says in the video the rule of thumb is actually very effective at keeping you safe...
the safe distance was way closer than what would be required to cover the blast. so actually being far enough away to cover it would just make you extra safe....
I think that's sort of the point though. If you've got the time to sit there comparing your thumb to a cloud you were never in any real danger, if not, well its probably the last thing on your mind before your impending doom. The rule of thumb's real purpose is to prevent panic.
@@TheScarvig You have missed Kyle's point entirely.
Just dont forget to duck and cover.
Funnily enough governments did this in real life. In the UK there's a really good movie called "When the wind blows." It's about an old couple trying to survive after a blast based on the UK's "Protect and serve." Guidence. The movie breaks apart of silly and poorly thought out these solutions were.
In reality they only existed to keep people calm and make them believe the government had a solution, a plan. When in reality, there is no hope when the bombs drop.
In the army they teach you the thumb trick but you should still get outta town regardless. The farther the distance, the better.
If the blast has already happened, getting to cover is likely more practical. Especially in a large nuclear exchange.
@@placeholdername0000 true I was just talking about the thumb trick though not actual practical procedures or SOPs
@@placeholdername0000 It depend on your distance (and winds and stuff, but that's overly complicated for a rule of thumb) whether you should hunker down or flee. Basically, are you far enough to be able to leave before the highly radioactive particles reach you - if not, you should wait until the most active isotopes have decayed into safer ones, so from a day to a week probably.
@@Sibula This is true. If you do leave when fallout or radioactive particles are nearby you're gonna want to make a suit to protect yourself against it. This is a last resort though, say for instance you're out of food and water and risk death. You'll want to cover your face, eyes, mouth, nose, skin, from head to toe. Tape shut any openings in your home made suit and very quickly get out of dodge. If you are in an area when the nuke goes off lay flat down head towards the blast, cover your head, close your eyes, and open your mouth. Being behind concrete or a strong structure is also important. You don't want your shoes melted to the ground, and you don't want your ear drums to pop. After that if its safe to, leave. If not, hunker down inside and board up all possible entries. This is a worst case scenario though, and you be much better off leaving if you have that opportunity.
@@KenjiIsMyCatsName If you're out of food and water, and it is within the first, say, 48 hours, your best bet is to stay in shelter. After the 48 hours, you should only leave for absolute emergencies. Though this will depend on the area, and the amount landing there.
In the Fallout universe, the whole "which travels faster" question has a different answer than it does in ours. We are using nuclear fission for our bombs. They're using nuclear fusion in the Fallout universe, with nuclear fission largely being a thing of their past. Nuclear fusion reactions are endothermic, which draws the heat in from the surrounding area, while nuclear fission reactions are exothermic, which creates the thermal wave. That's why there was no thermal wave preceding the concussion wave in the first episode of the Fallout TV show.
In Fallout 4, the standard nuclear warhead used in the Great War had an explosive yield of 200-750 kilotons. Chinese submarines had high-yield variants of these warheads. The bombs replaced thermal shock with radioactive fallout, which is why many places are still standing.
"Tee hee! It's so cold!" is my new favorite line in anything.
So, if it IS hidden behind your thumb you are safe...
...and you can get a bit closer.
That's about what I got from this. The Rule of Thumb overestimates your danger, so it's still effective
Ide be getting farther until I can find some shelter
Finally, someone tells it like it is
This is how storm chasers follow tornados, except they use those big foam fingers.
@@pudlmaker ok, my last comment was wrong. NOW someone finally told it like it is **cow from Twister flies by**
I really hope this gets the attention it deserves! Great material🤘🔥
To be fair, its not technically wrong. If the mushroom cloud was smaller than your thumb, you definitely would be safe
Even if not true, It really does fit the ‘Duck and Cover” aesthetic of the Fallout Universe.
Other than the part where no vault dweller was ever supposed to actually see a nuclear explosion so it would make no sense for this practice to be included in their advertising. At best it's just one of these in-universe fictions where you somehow have the Vault Boy knowing exactly the way people will blow to pieces when you hit them with a tiny gun.
@@ULTRAOutdoorsman Bold of you to assume there wouldn't be any additional nuclear explosions in the post-apocalypse wasteland.
I remember a coment on this old BS "ROSTED as a Duck and CoverED IN BLISTERS"...
Burt the turtle is very alert🎶
@@carloshenriquezimmer7543 "Duck and Cover" was meant for people who were far enough away from the blast that they wouldn't be instantly killed by the blast. Well outside the instant death zone, there is a much larger zone, with more people and buildings, where the explosion will destroy windows and doors and weaken buildings. In those circumstances, hiding under a school desk is better than _not_ hiding under your school desk. The real risks are debris and glass.
I know it's fun and all to dunk on Cold War fears from the safe distance of 50-odd years, but people were actually trying to work out _what to do_ if something like this happened.
the rule of thumb was a 1950 measurement about if you were dead or not and the rule was measuring the blast against your thumb not the cloud so the middle part of the mushroom. Basically what we were told in the army if bright orange of the blast is bigger than your thumb your dead already if not you have a fighting chance
I feel like another detail worth mentioning for this is that the bombs used in Fallout are of a specific known size and yield, which I believe is actually smaller than modern nuclear arms. It's something they actually establish in the manual for Fallout 1.
I was actually taught this rule of thumb as a general rule for any sort of disaster. Chemical spill, forest fire, hurricane, tornado, if you can't cover it with your thumb, you should get further away. I think it's still probably a good rule to emphasize staying clear of danger beyond one's control
Preston the raider:
"another settlement needs your thumbs!"
I think we can focus on the radiation because if you can still see and raise our thumbs by the time the mushroom cloud rises we are probably good with the other issues.
You need to duck and cover at minimum through the up to 30 seconds thermal flash or you may get fatally burned by the radiant heat. And then as to overpressure, watch videos of people filming large explosions and see what happens to them.
Educational and threw in a sick Preston Garvey burn at the end. Well done, sir. Well done.
Considering the character that says that about the rule of thumb is the one who just came up with doing the thumbs up pose for no real reason we can safely say he just made it up after the fact.
Honestly, if I could see the mushroom cloud *at all* I feel like I would be too close to a nuclear weapon going off...
if the cloud is 6.5KM's tall you're gonna see it from a long way away
@@MrOsmodeus and if it's from a nuclear weapon going off that's not something I'd really feel comfortable thinking "oh I'm a safe distance away from *a nuke"*
@@shaicat tbh, if this ever actually happened, by running away from one blast you'd probably just be running towards another anyway.
The moment you mentioned Preston Garvey, I immediately felt that a settlement needs my help.
The editing is so good
Rule of thumb:
- if you are instantly dead, then do nothing
- if you are still alive, then try to survive even if you might die later on
2:45 I just stood up to go to the bathroom when you said sit down in the back, lol. I was like "wait what".
It's fun when little coincidences like that happen. Makes it feel more immersive.
Almost got your head blown off
DUDE I was looking away and as I heard that, I look back to read the next comment, which is obviously yours. Freaked me out for a minute. Thats not a jump scare. Thats a fucking text scare. I was also thinking about getting up too, before all this bs 😂😂😂
Its crazy to believe that Kyle just detonated a nuclear bomb in a huge American city for this video, the dedication this man has is unmatched. We thank you, Kyle, for your educational work.
The capital, no less.
My man secretly works for The Enclave, I know it!
I've missed your videos! Instant subscribe
I haven’t watched one of your videos in a minute, you still got it
Lick your thumb and hold it up. If the moisture is vaporized ... You're too close.
......-'along with you thumb' 💀⚰️
If your too close, don't worry, Ghoul time.
Ghoul time=longer life span👍
Or Toki from Fist of the North Star
And then you turn into a feral, thus proceeding to eat everything in sight 👍
Depends, not everyone can be a ghoul
I've heard the thumb thing before. My mother would tell stories of when she was in school having fallout drills (Cuban missile crisis days). This thumb measuring was one of the things they would tell them
Two of my favorite topics. Anything Kyle posts, and fallout haha
Am i too close? Yes, but i cant change that anymore.
Am i too close? No, good, but if i werent i couldnt change that, so why even bother?
Unless you're already in a supersonic train zooming away from the epicenter, I don't think there's any practical way to get out of "vaporized" zone to Safe zone.
@@Appletank8 Supersonic would only save you from the blast, and only if you were far enough away to start with. The initial blast is well past supersonic, then the pressure wave travels at near the speed of sound. Ionizing radiation and thermal radiation both travel at the speed of light.
hold on, let me get in my car and AAAAAAAAAA
@@LFTRnow Actually, the blast travels at the speed of sound. Therefore, travelling at a supersonic speed away from the blast will always protect you from the blast no matter how close you were to start with. This says nothing about the other forms of energy released, tho.
@@bable6314 Would an SR-71 at Mach 3 be enough to go from lethal heat to survivable?
3:10 If I recall correctly it depends on the size of the weapon.
Small Fission Bombs(Hiroshima and under, the smaller the more extreme) have radiation going the furthest. The tiny Davy Crockett bombs will fatally iradiate people well outside the blast range.
For Large Fission Bombs(Anything from Fat Man to Ivy Mike, Kiloton range), the blast is the most important factor, stuff will be blown apart at quite a range. These are the ones ships are tested on AND the most common type in the Fallout Verse according to the manual.
Finally, Thermonuclear/Fusion/Hydrogen Bombs in the megaton range produce far more heat than anything else, with the melting thermal wave going out beyond the blast(and also in general these types actually burn relatively clean radiation wise)
Very good summation. I am NOT a gammer. I've not played Fall-Out, and have only watched the FIRST episode. I'm NOT a scientist (I'm a retired industrial designer), but when I saw Cooper and his daughter outside on the patio at the birthday party, she questioned her Dad about the "thumb rule", then he turned, saw the explosion, and just stood there. I'm thinking, "Dude, you're going to get blinded by the intense light output". But it gets worse. We see the shock wave coming, and he duck and covers his daughter, while the blast wave breaks the glass in the house and all the people go running, WITHOUT SIGNIFICANT INJURY from the flying glass? I know it's just a story, but it seemed, even from a layman's perspective, to be a bit incredulous. Anyway, thanks again. One more internet myth dispelled!
dude this is amazing and i've always wondered about this very topic. The idea behind the rule of thumb is fun but the math behind it is way more than i can work with haha
i think a "Beirut" style example to be better, no?
if you can see a blast (any for that matter). duck for cover as soon as possible.
after a few moments I would wonder if there could be a passive common indicator that would be a good proxy for testing if you were far enough to be safe.
like how far would you be before windows didn't shatter? glass cups? light bulbs?
All of the dramatic footage from the Beirut explosion made it very clear that if you SEE an explosion and haven't HEARD it yet, DON'T KEEP LOOKING AT IT, GET THE FUCK DOWN AND AWAY FROM THE WINDOWS. 😆 In that instant it's not our instinct to factor how much slower sound/blast travels than light, and we're just staring at this mind-boggling sight we're trying to process until *BAM*... We need to instill the "hide from it like it's the Eye of fucking Sauron" reaction the way they used to teach duck and cover in grade school 🤣
@@grankmisguided both sound and the shockwave are slower than light and that is exactly what I was referring to.
Yep, that's what I said, we're saying the same thing...?
@@grankmisguided Beirut made it really obvious, but there's lots of other explosion videos out there and they _all_ show the same thing. And yet people still think duck and cover is stupid.
I live in the DC Area...in the event of a nuclear war, I'm screwed no matter what. I'm also in a wheelchair. I'm running nowhere.
DC was designed to be a labyrinth of a city in case of invasion but they never took into account Nukes and made it equally hard to get out
A couple fire extinguishers might make you go faster!
You can at least be a skeleton storytelling device
Just lock you home securly and go into a basement
to be fair, DC is going to be a prime target...but its also going to have the best defenses....
now whether a defense against ICBM's exists is a different question entirely.
The one I heard was that outside the radius you are far enough to escape the radioactive dust that falls to the ground, if you have access to a car. if you are inside the radius, you are too close and should seek refuge inside a Fallout Shelter TM for a couple of weeks or so, until the hottest isotopes decay and it's safe(ish) to go to the surface to leave the region. all this goes out the window the second you think about the existence of wind.
Originally the Vault Boy with a thumbs up was a spoof of Duck and Cover (as Vault boy is satyre of the 50s nuke safety cartoons in general). Nuke safety cartoons also contained useless information and were mostly created to make the last seconds of the lives of children feeling safety. I know, it is brutal and inhumane to thin kthat way but it is kinda better than leaving the children panicking before they die. The original thumbs up design was first shown in Fallout 2 (If I recall correctly) loading screen where Vault Boy hides under a school desk (like in Duck and Cover), giving a winking thumbs up towards the camera, while a nuke went of in the window behind him. It was a way of mocking the efforts to reinforce feeling of security and safety within children in a corporate way.
Bethesda redid the design of the Vault boy (and turned what he was a satire of first and foremost into what it was satirising - corporate marketing tool/mascot) and included the thumbs up (it was a charming pose after all) but made him standing up right, thus removing more than half the context of the original. There was not really a second thought behind it and a myth of mushroom cloud was created in the vacuum of the internet because someone wanted to feel interesting. Kinda reminds me of the "8 spiders you eat in your sleep" myth that allegedly tried to proof how easy it is to create and spread myths and the fact that the myth about it being a myth is a myth is kinda evidence of how making up a lie can go from a dude just wanting to sound interesting at a party into Nolan adapting it into the show as canon.
That said nukes in Fallout are mostly different to what we have IRL. In 1 and the nukes were a lot like what we have (you see like 2-3 craters in the entire game) but in from 3 onwards they are more tactical. Megaton nuke is low yield, so are the nukes in Lonesome road, 4 and 76. But radiation is prevalent. So it is safe to say that nukes in Fallout are closer to dirty bombs IRL, aimed at irradiating the area rather than pure destructive force the nukes generally are. And you do not really need that big of an explosive (especially if you are still using a-bomb as the explosive) device to spread out nuclear fallout far and wide. So it could be that the mushroom clouds are much smaller (4, 76 and the show do show us big ones tho) and work mostly on spreading the actual fallout as the destructive device.
Or maybe it is just a fun TTRPG campaign of Tim Cain that was not meant to be overanalysed and is losely based on what people in 60s would think a post nuclear apocalypse world would look like. And it just got a tad out of hand at this point.
I f-ing love the use of the pip-boy screen use, and sound use in the transitions, in this episode
Alright, question for you Kyle.
Do your spurs go jingle jangle jingle?
If they do, he probably doesn't want to leave the Congo, nor set the world on fire (but does want to start a flame in our hearts).
Only if it's all over but the crying
Maybe ? It's a sin to tell a lie...
from all I've seen online ,articles from years ago before the show all say if the STEM of the mushroom cloud is bigger not the mushroom cloud itself, so i feel like that kind of destroys the entire test...
So basically, it’s like “Duck & Cover” of real life nuclear survival PSAs; doesn’t actually help you, it’s just to provide calm in your final seconds to apocalypse.
8:42
Maybe the Rule of Thumb is that if your thumb isn't bigger then Preston Garvey, he's going to walk up to you and mark another settlement that needs your help on your map.
So happy to see someone using NukeMap! I've used it in several public lectures to teach people about E=mc2 on a basic level. I put the equivalent of turning a hockey puck into energy into the map and drop it somewhere central to the audience, then list a few specifics of the damage caused and some landmarks for reference. It usually makes quite an 'impact' (pun intended).
It's like the old "Duck and Cover" thing, a lie to make you feel more comfortable.
During the intro my only thought was "if you're too close to a nuclear blast you'll know right away. Or not at all."
The rule of thumb reminds me of the “duck and cover” plan everyone was taught during the 50s, it’s mostly useless, but it helped people feel at ease knowing a plan was in place
Not useless. It's only useless if you're too close to the epicenter of the blast, in which case you won't have time to duck and cover anyway. But even if you're within the shockwave, you have a chance to survive if you're in a basement or something similar. Further out, taking cover can protect from falling debris, similar to protecting against an earthquake.
There were survivors of the Hiroshima blast who survived the blast itself, but died from radiation sickness days later. Since radiation effects propagate the least amount, this proves that people relatively close to the epicenter were still able to survive the blast itself.
@@EnigmaHood ya but that’s kind of what I’m saying, it’s the allusion of safety. It’s an answer to “how do I survive the bombs” that isn’t “oh you’ll die if you’re too close, otherwise you’ll die from radiation if you saw it, so you’ll die either way”
@@EnigmaHood ya but that’s kind of what I’m saying, it’s the allusion of safety. It’s an answer to “how do I survive the bombs” that isn’t “oh you’ll die if you’re too close, otherwise you’ll die from radiation if you saw it, so you’ll die either way”
I see it in line with staying away from windows during a tornado... it won't prevent you from getting killed if the tornado is strong enough and goes over your house, but it will keep you safe from shrapnel and stuff flying into the window if its far enough away. The psychological effect can't be underestimated though.
Rather be under a desk than out in the open...
The thumb technique was still taught in 2005 when I was in the army. It was followed by places to hide and handle the radiation and thermal burns
Damn, Preston Garvy catching strays! XD
You're not exactly wrong, though.
I really love that mushroom cloud cgi you used. Beautiful.
2:45 The VATS info being there is amazing
Yeah, i'd be soiling myself if a professor used VATS to call me out
Straight for the head too
Is it concerning that apparently we already have damage to our heads?
I just got to that part
Help i am chronically addicted to the fallout games
Try Addictal. It works on Buffout
No need to help. Youre on the right track
Same, but with the Metro games.
Fallout 4 is a bit of a weird one for me. I'll occasionally get an urge to replay through something like one of the Half-Life games (HL, BS, OF, etc) or one of the first 3 FarCry games, and I'll eventually fire up my games computer purely to scratch that itch. I may play for an hour or two, or I may just do the entire game in one siting, but it depends on what other time commitments I have in my life. If I have to be up early the next day I'll stop playing at 8 or 9 and go to bed.
I'll RARELY feel a compulsion to fire up Fallout 4. I'll usually only do it when I read about some amazing new mod for it, but once I'm playing, all consciousness of time goes right out the window. I'll look at my watch and realise it's 10pm and think "Well, I'll just finish this bit", then look at my watch and see it's 3am and STILL not immediately save/exit. The times I've gone without an entire nights sleep because I'd loaded that game, and only stopped when my bedside alarm clock has started bleeping is crazy. I don't think any other game hooks me like that.
New to the franchise?
Here's a beginner tip
New vegas 10 luck is peaceful mode
Also it's actually sort of important to actually take fallout into consideration because while bombs were what were used by China and the US in universe, And potentially other powers, we don't get much information on them but since the USSR had cannibalized itself in a collapse they likely didn't participate meaningfully. So most exchange would have been outward from China and into China. Without a SAC like command, (as FO appears to have kept due to Bombers being the primary means of delivery) Western Europe wouldn't have had much time to retaliate if China had any intent on reaching out toward Europe at all.
That all said, we see the world as an irradiated world. Meaning that either China hadn't bothered with airburst bombs for the sake of sheer production, or the airburst altimeter sensors were set for low altitude blasts. Which explains much of the amount of radiation in the world. So that rule of thumb COULD take general fallout knowledge into account. Though not windspeed and direction after "Normalization" post blast and thermal waves. We also have the impression of the atompunk setting it seems like many of the (At least Chinese bombs) were fission rather than fusion rather than full on hydrogen bombs which weren't developed until the late fifties. And the atompunk aesthetic/technical sensibilities are roughly 1950-1955 with an overlay of 70's or 80's computer tech, minus miniaturization to a limited degree for things like the Pipboy. Which were highly specialized pieces of tech as it is given that what we see in 99% of computer tech (AI aside.) we see being below Commodore level PC's. Such are my personal thoughts.
In my opinion, the point of this rule was never meant to be an actual estimation of safe distance from a nuclear explosion. It's meant to mimic all the "advice" that was given in the real Cold War which was next to useless for your survival if an actual bomb dropped. Advice like "duck and cover", "hide from the blast under your dining room table", "prepare for nuclear war by building a bomb shelter out of wooden planks in your backyard", etc. It's to make people feel like they have some agency in their survival (thinking they can "run away" from the effects of a nuclear bomb) rather than to actually save lives.
If you survive the initial blast, the greatest threat is debris, collapsing buildings, and radiation. It's not just security theater.
I always figured this was to guestimate safety from the fallout cloud. Obviously, the faster effects don't give you enough time to make a judgement. "It doesn't matter, they'll be airbursts" is an interesting counter-point, but I'd still like to see the calculation assuming they hit the ground and cause a large quantity of fallout.
And also what the data would look like for "salted" nukes.
Well technically you wouldn't really have time to do the thumb trick if you're in the thermal zone because you be hit with the heat and damaged at the instant of detonation, but you might still be lucky enough to be at the edge of the thermal zone but that might not matter if you were not behind something and were in direct line of sight.
Ifyou encounter a nuclear boumb perhaps employ a kiss your ass goodbye or a get the hell away strategy