THE PENUEL SHOW WITH ERNST VAN ZYL 00:00 - INTRO 06:25 - Highlights from 2023 10:35 - Consequences of doing Government’s job 15:40 - Concept of State Proofing 26:00 - Responsible voting, communal work 32:35 - Pen revoking AfriForum membership 43:30 - Dissecting our differences in opinions 47:55 - Old South African flag 57:35 - What the flag could represent 1:04:40 - Old Transval & Vrustaat leadership 1:07:05 - Farm murd3rs 1:22:55 - White genocide in SA 1:30:30 - K1ll The Boer case 1:36:20 - Racial tensions around Farm murders 1:39:45 - Prioritising crimes 1:43:35 - Stats transparency 1:54:00 - Land issue & Farm murder connection 1:57:30 - Racial wars 2:05:05 - Funding 2:08:00 - International attention on Farm murders 2:15:55 - Intentional sabotage 2:22:20 - EFF radicalism 2:27:00 - Closing comments 2:37:58 - ENDS Compiled by Khwezi Ndlovu IG: kzndlovu Tt: khwezindlovu
Gentleman, thank you for restoring my faith in this country, in our generation, in this future. I feel proud to be South African for the first time in ages. I feel like sanity still exists. I'm excited to find out how I can get involved. Thank you
From a Zulu father, I respect the Afrikaans nation for loving themselves and loving who they are...They ooze self confidence from having a full sense of self identity..Their young respect their elders...And they truly love South Africa..We, as nations of South Africa must learn from them....
Thank you Sir. The feeling is mutual. A few years after the battle of Blood River, the Boere and Zulu's gathered at the site of the battle to stack a pile of peace stones together. They are stil there today. One of my favourite stories of hope for our country.
Afrikaners are a combination of mostly Europeans that fled from religious persecution in countries like the Netherlands, Germany, France and Belgium. They started settling in South Africa in the Cape colony since 1652. We have been South Africans for more than 350 years. Land was purchased, occupied and taken. I’m pretty sure the story of the Zulu nation is very similar. Black Africans coming South of the Sahara and finding the Koi and the San here. Where did the great Zulu nation get their land?
@@rafaelw8115 Afrikaners are a combination of mostly Europeans that fled from religious persecution in countries like the Netherlands, Germany, France and Belgium. They started settling in South Africa in the Cape colony since 1652. We have been South Africans for more than 350 years. Land was purchased, occupied and taken. I’m pretty sure the story of the Zulu nation is very similar. Black Africans coming South of the Sahara and finding the Koi and the San here. Where did the great Zulu nation get their land?
Thank you for the opportunity to once again have an open and productive conversation on this powerful platform that you and your team have built, Penuel. Looking forward to our next discussion. - Ernst
Ek het nou net na die “Beveilig n plaas” bladsy gaan kyk en wou sien hoeveel geld is in die pot, dalk self so bietjie bydra want ek bly oorsee, maar die skakel blyk nie te werk nie
@@PenuelismI made a comment twice regarding your suggestion for a Bill of Responsibilities - both comments have been deleted - why? My comment indicated that such a document already exists and it’s called the Charter of Citizens’ Obligations.
Ernst I made a comment twice and both have been deleted. Do you know why? Penuel mentioned a bill of obligations at the 26:30 mark, this already exists and it’s called the Charter of Citizens’ Obligations. It was released on March 1st by the United South Africa Movement (TUSAM) and it is an excellent charter, you must read it. It outlines twelve obligations for citizens to follow.
Penuel thanks for lending Ernst and Afriforum an ear. Conversations like this between sincere South Africans with different perspectives are the way forward. Two proper South African sons of the African soil. Salute bru's.
I’m a FARMER, and it’s disheartening how the topic of “farm murderers” is almost always reduced to race. Makes one feel under-represented. Thanks for the episode/ conversation. 🙏🏽
Thank you, Mbali. Been a fan of your work for a few years now, especially after that Farmers Show on SABC. I drive around ekuRhuleni crops and think about you everytime. I hope we'll get to sit down soon... keep working, sis' wami... you inspire me & many others 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
must say that i am a great fan of how Penuel has interviews - very genuine - i may not like him and what he says all the time - but i am man enough to appreciate his skill and prowess in invoking an insightful discussion out of his guests. the guest to me is the immediate example of why cultural differences are exactly that - just differences - our hopes and dreams remain the same - we all want a better and fair South Africa and to show this guest to the masses I believe is the key critical panacea to changing the country - not through narratives but through honest dialogues such as these.
HAPPY MONDAY... Hope you're all enjoying your long weekend. Remember to serve your community. Pick up litter. Volunteer in schools and sports teams. Buy from locally-owned businesses. Patrol your hood.
My biggest takeaways are to diversify your portfolio of change for the betterment of your community and just the real mature nature of this conversation, if only issues affecting us in our local communities can be addressed in this nature, we will be so much better for it. Realising that we are a community of communities and we all depend on each other for our valued contributions
Could you please invite Samantha Jansen if possible? She was a guest on the Hustlers Corner podcast. Also, could you add the episode to your watchlist?
Yazi Pen, I had a similar conversation with an Afrikaner friend about 2 years ago. We had this conversation in Somerset east which has a lot of White Farmers. The people in the restaurant were so uncomfortable they asked us to stop taking" because we were making a noise ". My friend got angry and wanted to tell them off, not understanding that they actually meant noise not being loud. Always remember it's always easier to conquer a place where the people are divided. If only what your doing here can be extrapolated across our nation. We would be in a better place. The reason why we still have this racial divide is because this kind of conversation never happened in SA. Thank you Buda.
I have to applaud you guys for contributing towards the change of South African consciousness, we need more of such conversation. The world is changing at a very fast pace and we should not allow our past to drag us back, we should however, address the past in ways that genuinely seek to advance all and not in ways that seek to exploit each other. No white, Black, Indian, Colored child must feel out of place anywhere in our country, inspiration must be drawn from all South Africans doing good thing for our country and not from only those that look like you.
These are the conversations we need to be having. Two intelligent young leaders sharing and discussing ideas in a civil manner. Even though we may not agree with each other all the time, discussing ideas like this is vital for growth and learning.
Thank you for this discussion. Both of you represent the true South Africa! As a high school teacher my emphasis has always been to “think” for yourself, check the facts, and speak heart to heart. If we have more dialogue there will be more understanding! Thanks for clearing up a few issues! God bless both of you, keep on talking!!
Black African leadership of old ( Pre ANC ) and Afrikaans leadership are both essentially conservative in nature with a strong traditional flavour and a love for the land. Plenty in common.
As a black farmer, I've survived 4 attacks. I remember being angry that my family members wouldn't take them seriously. But now that Penuel mentions how we've normalised violence in our black communities, i think i have a better understanding as to why they wouldnt take such things serioulsly. Theyve become accustomed to it as a daily thing in their neighborhoods
Yes yes yes I have always believed that to enjoy a right you HAVE to have a responsibility to do that! No responsibility means no care - just take take take and give nothing back! So wonderful to hear you discuss this with an emphasis on responsibility- fantastic discussion both of you!👍👍👏👏
I have to admit; because of Penuel I stopped complaining about Zulu speaking to me or texing to me in Zulu and started responding to them ka seTswana. it has done wonders; those who are not tribalist continued engaging without a complaint and those who are tribalist stopped engaging or became aggressive. I started greeting white people ka seTswana as well.
This is beautiful, Lethabo. You teach people how to treat you, and being proud of your identity is key. With that said, always calculate when to speak your language and when to adjust, for maximum value for you.
Great topics talked about with good people. The ideas and thoughts of state proofing. It does work and is a wonderful way of work. Just remember that all these efforts require materials, equipment, and other items that may not be available by residents. These things come at a cost. How do you get a community to still have available money for these projects or even companies in the area to keep sponsoring initiatives. People are paying higher rates and taxes, electricity and water, bond repayments etc. these types of details need to be discussed and mentioned and not just the high-level view. Holding people accountable and stating what is done by communities needs to be raised, highlighted and the right people need to explain and be held responsible for their failure.
They are self absorbed and would'nt have interest of everyone at heart. I mean Penuel was once a paying member of Afriforum and seems to have good relations, but why don't the share his podcast conversation on their media, facebook, youtube or tik tok. For a 'helping community' thats the least they can do.
To the point that Penuel brought up at around 1:25:15, one of my late friends, who stayed in Gugulethu had a conversation with me about what happens when there was a violent crime in his area. He said that (a) Even if someone knows something, they won't say anything because they are scared of retaliation, (b) if people hear screams, they just lock their doors, and (c) they know not to call the police anymore, because they simply will not arrive. I am not even gonna lie, that sh*t made me cry man. As he told the story, I could see.. this was just another day in his life. 😔
Estates is gaurded by private security fools, maybe not the bakkie with the signage but thw gaurds still is employed by some sort of private security company.
Thank you for a great discussion. I understand the power in communities becoming self sufficient…… the depressing reality is that dual systems costs money. The additional community contributions we need to make, the exhortant taxes we pay hurts the everyday citizen…. it really hurts. Be that as it may, I will continue to support selected community projects.
Interesting discussion, there is a need for more especially with other different races and ethnicities that are used to their own views and ways, instead of learning from one another.
Living in New Zealand has shown me how glimpes of a almost non racial society, South Africa will also get there, we just have to realize that we can't continue living in fear of one another, respecting and love your fellow citizen is what South African must aim for, that's the Identity thread we need to elevate more thn black, white, Pedi or Zulu.......great conversation wena mazincengela. Young and old, active citizenry is truly important, especially US youngsters, we are the ones who will raising our kids in this country, so we need to make sure it is habitable for all of us.......and white people must call those other white people out when they are doing wrong, because within the black society, we know that you guy forget your morals when you are suppose to call each other out, don't try protect colour but protect humanity
I agree with that--if you want to have things/demand things, what will you're responsibilties be? Like students demanding to have money and accomodation, etc.I am always wondering --what are expected of them when they are finished with their studies? Do they ever pay back, a part at least.
Voting with your labor … very insightful … How is my employer using my life force at work to gaining power and influence. How is that company using the power I have given.
South Africa has a crime problem, it's not about Gender, Race or Age. And after all this we have "hate" problem, that's why this interview is this long.
In many ways we hold our community to a higher standard, than those outside of our culture. Hence our total disdain for joiners in the Boer wars with the British. In many ways we are MORE hurt when the perpetrator is from our own community. So, yes we DO believe that we will react the same way. Maybe it's because, like Penuel said, that some communities do not value life as much.
I agree, that because black lives have historically been devalued even so we have normalised injustice and it still continues I haven't seen a serious protest over black exploitation and landlessness instead I see people fighting for white interest and standards
This KONVO reminds me of Thomas Sowell’s philosophy which he discovered in his photography work, the same way you make trade offs with your camera settings to get the best results is the same way life operates. “There are no solutions just trade offs” This was a super convo but begs the question how does SA start the process of ensuring that the land is redistributed across the country with fairness and empathy as the bedrock of that trade off. Looking forward to getting someone to tackle that one🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
Lol Dan Corder is the absolute reason I do not listen to 5fm anymore. I'm 40 years old so I know what an absolute cultural juggernaut 5fm was in the 90s cos they played rock and roll man and nobody cared how many beanies you were wearing back then.
in a way i like the idea of empowering people but at the same time doing the things at your expense fixing the roads, repairing infrastructure, yet stil paying taxes for the government to do the very thing you are doing yourself.... and then they raise the taxes yet more, for not doing anything
So my husbands grandfarther was murdered on his farm. Three guys visited his farm. The ask if they could buy his bakkie. The dog was barking and he decided to close the dog in the house. They tied his grandpa up and dosed him with petrol and set him on fire. Took his bakkie. No its not a tall tale. It happened.
I get it people see, people are aware of who is actually helping and making a difference. There needs to be accountability on this government we cant just let them get away with all their nonsense. what we will be left with is people paying for things out of their own pocket while government just gets our tax money and has a party its not right man. There must be a way to get government to come to the party and stop this gravy train of theirs
The Oranje, Blanje, and Blou flag was created when the Union of South Africa was created after 1910. One of the things that's very important to understand about South Africa is that it is like so many other African countries an artificial entity created by the Brits. The South Africa that we know in its present borders is only 104 years old. And in 1990 when we went through our transition it was only 80 years old. It was the creation of the British Empire. Britain acquired possession of most of the territories of Southern Africa in the nineteenth century in what one historian referred to as a fit of absentmindedness.
I think many white South Africans also need to understand that we, unlike Europeans, do not want to live in homogeneous countries. So telling us our identities are artificial isn't effective on us.
I don't have the "4 colour" flag which represents the fight against the British "invasion" of south africa. Both my grandparents on both parents side were interned by the British in concentration camps, their farms raised, animals confiscated and the farm workers lost employment, homes, food. This action by the british was directed at all south africans no matter their race.
I think it's time we as South Africans need to discuss the issue of dividing the land into it's four nations leaving in it, where Blacks, Whites, Coloured and Indians can have their own land regions to rule themselves according to their culture, traditions and religion. We can still do business and share scientifically and technology ideas with each other and also be one state.
Most of us belong to some kind of group-family, language, community,culture, church. Without being racist, you must feel free to associate with whom you want. All over the world you have that.Why do we make it such a big issue in South Africa??
@@Penuelism That's true. But are you suggesting black people didn't treat black people exactly the same way? Is that why the Zulus had slavery? Is that why you had slavery in Zimbabwe long before Europeans? The problem logically speaking is that there is one standard applied to people of European descent, and another to everyone else, who engaged in slavery and ethnic suppression all the same.
Theo I think part of the problem we black people have is we will raise the point that white people have hurt and someone will immediately say "well I saw you hurt other people that look like you" we not claiming moral high ground we just merely stating that I was hurt by you, it is the responsibility of the one I hurt to raise their own grievance and not for you to absolve your transgressions by using they pain , accept your wrong doing so progress together me and you are South Africans if you always short change my pain ,I will always view as a perpetrator who shows no remorse.
Penuel's counter arguments covering farm murders (echoing what we see online - not sure he believes it) is quite telling. There is very little listening in general (not on this podcast). A lot of opponents of AfriForum bring their own emotions/preconceptions/racism to the party when discussing this issue.
@konvo_za Around the question of whether it would be different if these things were widely accepted to have been done by "white" people, the proof for his answer lays in his and the afrikaners" visceral reaction when talking about the vier kleur, the anglo-boer wars and lead up the them that were essentially "whites killing whites". NB the treatment of the people before their death is mostly what is remembered in both cases. It is difficult to answer a rhetorical question like that and be certain about your answer, but luckily we can go back in the history of the boere very far to see if the people that they get their values, world-view and genetics from would have reacted the same way if the other party was white, because for a lot of boere history they were. You can draw the same parallels for most of the rhetorical questions that we have today as a SOMEWHAT objective tool in an emotionally charged time where we all have blind spots. Thank you for your many enlightening interviews
the difference is that the farm murd3rs are targeted, and those being murd3red make up a very small community compared to the rest of the country. The rate of murd3rs of farmers is proportionally higher than most of the rest of the country. The reason outsiders highlight these attacks is because they're often very brutal and gruesome, often it's not just about robbing people, but making them suffer. I've seen the crime scene photos before and I will be forever scarred and haunted. Outsiders also highlight it because in Europe and America we're starting to see such attacks too not on farms but just in general, but it's discouraged to talk about it.
You'd be surprised. Humanity isn't always about speaking a language, but showing up and showing compassion. Language is merely one aspect of showing uBuntu.
Plees to kno thet 3 year ago the farmer and my bruther was shot ded while open farm gate. Today 50 peeples suffer on this farm . No job becos estat have no monies. All enimals was sold everything is stand still. Nobody know now what to do. 😢😢😢
Free dome of expression like elonmusk baught free speach for the world !, tiwtter, Afriforum are fighting for free dome,think about that. Afriforum I hear you got my vote.
Leadership is a huge responsibility and is bestowed to individuals by God's election of grace because the earth belongs to Him. Jesus came as a leader and broke the walls of separation. All who lead irrespective of calour of their or his skin, they are given responsibility to bring people in their respective space together without favoritism because one day they are going to account to the Lord. This a divine responsibility not because you are wiser than others.
What Boshoff refers to as "South Africa as a community of communities" is actually coded language for segregation among ethnic lines, in other words: apartheid 2.0 and the partition of South Africa into dysfunctional smaller ethnostates, similar to the failed former "bantustans". Every "community" (= ethnic group or "race") is supposed to live seperately from one another in the minds of Boshoff and his NATSi (National Party) ideology. I'm surprised Penuel doesn't have the intellect to decode what these people actually mean when they use such phrases. People recommended me Penuel's show, proclaiming that he is a smart guy doing profound interviews, yet I see him falling victim to the simplest demagogy.
THE PENUEL SHOW WITH ERNST VAN ZYL
00:00 - INTRO
06:25 - Highlights from 2023
10:35 - Consequences of doing Government’s job
15:40 - Concept of State Proofing
26:00 - Responsible voting, communal work
32:35 - Pen revoking AfriForum membership
43:30 - Dissecting our differences in opinions
47:55 - Old South African flag
57:35 - What the flag could represent
1:04:40 - Old Transval & Vrustaat leadership
1:07:05 - Farm murd3rs
1:22:55 - White genocide in SA
1:30:30 - K1ll The Boer case
1:36:20 - Racial tensions around Farm murders
1:39:45 - Prioritising crimes
1:43:35 - Stats transparency
1:54:00 - Land issue & Farm murder connection
1:57:30 - Racial wars
2:05:05 - Funding
2:08:00 - International attention on Farm murders
2:15:55 - Intentional sabotage
2:22:20 - EFF radicalism
2:27:00 - Closing comments
2:37:58 - ENDS
Compiled by Khwezi Ndlovu
IG: kzndlovu
Tt: khwezindlovu
Two young future leaders talking like decent folk of old. Well done gentlemen, you’re making our generation proud by your efforts 🫡
Couldn't agree more👏🏾
Leaders of what?
Gentleman, thank you for restoring my faith in this country, in our generation, in this future. I feel proud to be South African for the first time in ages. I feel like sanity still exists. I'm excited to find out how I can get involved. Thank you
From a Zulu father, I respect the Afrikaans nation for loving themselves and loving who they are...They ooze self confidence from having a full sense of self identity..Their young respect their elders...And they truly love South Africa..We, as nations of South Africa must learn from them....
Well said sir
Thank you Sir. The feeling is mutual.
A few years after the battle of Blood River, the Boere and Zulu's gathered at the site of the battle to stack a pile of peace stones together. They are stil there today. One of my favourite stories of hope for our country.
Afrikaners are a combination of mostly Europeans that fled from religious persecution in countries like the Netherlands, Germany, France and Belgium. They started settling in South Africa in the Cape colony since 1652. We have been South Africans for more than 350 years. Land was purchased, occupied and taken. I’m pretty sure the story of the Zulu nation is very similar. Black Africans coming South of the Sahara and finding the Koi and the San here.
Where did the great Zulu nation get their land?
@@rafaelw8115 Afrikaners are a combination of mostly Europeans that fled from religious persecution in countries like the Netherlands, Germany, France and Belgium. They started settling in South Africa in the Cape colony since 1652. We have been South Africans for more than 350 years. Land was purchased, occupied and taken. I’m pretty sure the story of the Zulu nation is very similar. Black Africans coming South of the Sahara and finding the Koi and the San here.
Where did the great Zulu nation get their land?
@@wynanddewinnaar2217😂😂😂
More of these robust, honest, no sugar coating conversations are needed, people need to be honest about our issues
Thank you for the opportunity to once again have an open and productive conversation on this powerful platform that you and your team have built, Penuel.
Looking forward to our next discussion.
- Ernst
Always appreciate chatting to you, Ernst.
Let's aggressively take ownership of this country and lead. #Selfdoen ✊🏽
Ek het nou net na die “Beveilig n plaas” bladsy gaan kyk en wou sien hoeveel geld is in die pot, dalk self so bietjie bydra want ek bly oorsee, maar die skakel blyk nie te werk nie
Verraaier.
@@PenuelismI made a comment twice regarding your suggestion for a Bill of Responsibilities - both comments have been deleted - why? My comment indicated that such a document already exists and it’s called the Charter of Citizens’ Obligations.
Ernst I made a comment twice and both have been deleted. Do you know why? Penuel mentioned a bill of obligations at the 26:30 mark, this already exists and it’s called the Charter of Citizens’ Obligations. It was released on March 1st by the United South Africa Movement (TUSAM) and it is an excellent charter, you must read it. It outlines twelve obligations for citizens to follow.
Penuel thanks for lending Ernst and Afriforum an ear. Conversations like this between sincere South Africans with different perspectives are the way forward. Two proper South African sons of the African soil. Salute bru's.
A conversation between 2 people who care deeply about South Africa... I love it
Stop it I love it .Somma going to join Afriforum 😂😂😂😂.
Pen is strategic when it comes to asking questions, eloquent and well spoken. I always watch his vids to improve my grammer. Kudos to you Pen 🎉
I’m a FARMER, and it’s disheartening how the topic of “farm murderers” is almost always reduced to race. Makes one feel under-represented. Thanks for the episode/ conversation. 🙏🏽
Thank you, Mbali. Been a fan of your work for a few years now, especially after that Farmers Show on SABC. I drive around ekuRhuleni crops and think about you everytime. I hope we'll get to sit down soon... keep working, sis' wami... you inspire me & many others 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
@@Penuelism thank you 🙏🏽
Agree, all farmers, not all white have been murdered
As I white man I love Penuel. He speaks from the heart, he would be a great president.
must say that i am a great fan of how Penuel has interviews - very genuine - i may not like him and what he says all the time - but i am man enough to appreciate his skill and prowess in invoking an insightful discussion out of his guests.
the guest to me is the immediate example of why cultural differences are exactly that - just differences - our hopes and dreams remain the same - we all want a better and fair South Africa and to show this guest to the masses I believe is the key critical panacea to changing the country - not through narratives but through honest dialogues such as these.
HAPPY MONDAY... Hope you're all enjoying your long weekend.
Remember to serve your community. Pick up litter. Volunteer in schools and sports teams. Buy from locally-owned businesses. Patrol your hood.
My biggest takeaways are to diversify your portfolio of change for the betterment of your community and just the real mature nature of this conversation, if only issues affecting us in our local communities can be addressed in this nature, we will be so much better for it. Realising that we are a community of communities and we all depend on each other for our valued contributions
Could you please invite Samantha Jansen if possible? She was a guest on the Hustlers Corner podcast. Also, could you add the episode to your watchlist?
I love the fact that a Zulu guy and an Afrikaans guy can talk about these issues on that level. It gives me hope.
It is so important to hear apposing views, if we do not listen to the other side of the argument, we lean nothing. Well done to both of you.
Thank you Penuel and Ernst for doing this important work. This is inspiring.
Yazi Pen, I had a similar conversation with an Afrikaner friend about 2 years ago. We had this conversation in Somerset east which has a lot of White Farmers. The people in the restaurant were so uncomfortable they asked us to stop taking" because we were making a noise ". My friend got angry and wanted to tell them off, not understanding that they actually meant noise not being loud. Always remember it's always easier to conquer a place where the people are divided. If only what your doing here can be extrapolated across our nation. We would be in a better place. The reason why we still have this racial divide is because this kind of conversation never happened in SA. Thank you Buda.
Well said
Brilliant guys. Very intelligent and so important. You guys make me so proud.
We need more of these wonderful conversations! Well done!
I have to applaud you guys for contributing towards the change of South African consciousness, we need more of such conversation. The world is changing at a very fast pace and we should not allow our past to drag us back, we should however, address the past in ways that genuinely seek to advance all and not in ways that seek to exploit each other. No white, Black, Indian, Colored child must feel out of place anywhere in our country, inspiration must be drawn from all South Africans doing good thing for our country and not from only those that look like you.
Great conversation. Thanks for this
These are the conversations we need to be having. Two intelligent young leaders sharing and discussing ideas in a civil manner. Even though we may not agree with each other all the time, discussing ideas like this is vital for growth and learning.
Thank you for this discussion. Both of you represent the true South Africa! As a high school teacher my emphasis has always been to “think” for yourself, check the facts, and speak heart to heart. If we have more dialogue there will be more understanding! Thanks for clearing up a few issues! God bless both of you, keep on talking!!
Excellent show and discussion. Thank you Pen and Ernst
Black African leadership of old ( Pre ANC ) and Afrikaans leadership are both essentially conservative in nature with a strong traditional flavour and a love for the land. Plenty in common.
Such a vital discussions for our time. Thank you to both gents for being open and honest.
South Africa can’t afford to NOT have conversations like this. Both sides taking their own side but listening to the other.
Pen and Ernst, I appreciate this talk between you two. I think it is worth a lot. Keep it up.
Great conversations amongst the future leaders of our beautiful country ! Well done Penuel & Ernst !
Two humans exploring different perspectives on crucial topics using EQ and being respectful of each other’s views - good models for all South Africans
As a black farmer, I've survived 4 attacks. I remember being angry that my family members wouldn't take them seriously. But now that Penuel mentions how we've normalised violence in our black communities, i think i have a better understanding as to why they wouldnt take such things serioulsly. Theyve become accustomed to it as a daily thing in their neighborhoods
What a great and interesting conversation, as always. The more we talk to each other, honestly, the more you understand a different culture.
We need more open conversations like this with adults in the room
Yes yes yes I have always believed that to enjoy a right you HAVE to have a responsibility to do that! No responsibility means no care - just take take take and give nothing back! So wonderful to hear you discuss this with an emphasis on responsibility- fantastic discussion both of you!👍👍👏👏
I have to admit; because of Penuel I stopped complaining about Zulu speaking to me or texing to me in Zulu and started responding to them ka seTswana. it has done wonders; those who are not tribalist continued engaging without a complaint and those who are tribalist stopped engaging or became aggressive. I started greeting white people ka seTswana as well.
O tsogile yang lethabo?
ngiyaithanda
This is beautiful, Lethabo. You teach people how to treat you, and being proud of your identity is key.
With that said, always calculate when to speak your language and when to adjust, for maximum value for you.
@@Penuelism absolutely, like some "How to Win Friends and Influence People"
@@marnusolivier5995 monate fela, lena le tsogile?
I can listen to and watch conversations like this as if they are the world cup.
I love what Penuel is doing, it always starts here, with a conversation🤝
Great conversation between penuel and mr van zyl
Nxa! Show. We need more conversation like this. Criticaly thinking has created a gap in critical thought.
Brilliant conversation! Always riveted when you and Ernst conversate!
Great topics talked about with good people.
The ideas and thoughts of state proofing. It does work and is a wonderful way of work. Just remember that all these efforts require materials, equipment, and other items that may not be available by residents. These things come at a cost. How do you get a community to still have available money for these projects or even companies in the area to keep sponsoring initiatives. People are paying higher rates and taxes, electricity and water, bond repayments etc. these types of details need to be discussed and mentioned and not just the high-level view. Holding people accountable and stating what is done by communities needs to be raised, highlighted and the right people need to explain and be held responsible for their failure.
Why do we not have personalities and minds like this in political leadership in SA. VOTE WISELY!!
Because as long as there's a white person, they would be labelled racist and a apartheid activist.
They are self absorbed and would'nt have interest of everyone at heart. I mean Penuel was once a paying member of Afriforum and seems to have good relations, but why don't the share his podcast conversation on their media, facebook, youtube or tik tok. For a 'helping community' thats the least they can do.
Two very smart young guys having a proper ‘debate’ ❤ #respect
Thanks guys
To the point that Penuel brought up at around 1:25:15, one of my late friends, who stayed in Gugulethu had a conversation with me about what happens when there was a violent crime in his area.
He said that
(a) Even if someone knows something, they won't say anything because they are scared of retaliation,
(b) if people hear screams, they just lock their doors, and
(c) they know not to call the police anymore, because they simply will not arrive.
I am not even gonna lie, that sh*t made me cry man. As he told the story, I could see.. this was just another day in his life. 😔
💔💔💔 communities need to rise up and become their own police. Relying on govt is no longer working.
just like being in max security prison yissis
Breaks my heart. Thank you for highlighting this Andre. SAns should not have to live under these conditions.
Great guys....hope for the future
Black pen,I do hope that one day you will run this country 👏👏👏Keep up the good work you doing.
I always had a suspicion regarding private security companies. This is why people are choosing secure estates over free standing houses.
ummm its easier to lock the rich IN...
lockdown?
and theyll probably be unarmed & untrained in there ...with the wolf guarding them
its also easier to evict you if youre in an estate
Estates is gaurded by private security fools, maybe not the bakkie with the signage but thw gaurds still is employed by some sort of private security company.
Beautiful conversation ♥
A very interesting conversation.
Fantastic sensible discussion....so refreshing.
Thank you for a great discussion.
I understand the power in communities becoming self sufficient…… the depressing reality is that dual systems costs money.
The additional community contributions we need to make, the exhortant taxes we pay hurts the everyday citizen…. it really hurts.
Be that as it may, I will continue to support selected community projects.
This conversation is so heavy 😢
"Responsibility limits everything"
the more responsibilities you have, the more limited you are to do certain things as a person
Responsibility is the hallmark of adulthood
Thank you Black Pen 🖤
Interesting discussion, there is a need for more especially with other different races and ethnicities that are used to their own views and ways, instead of learning from one another.
Ernst Van Zyl you beauty👌..what a lad.
Living in New Zealand has shown me how glimpes of a almost non racial society, South Africa will also get there, we just have to realize that we can't continue living in fear of one another, respecting and love your fellow citizen is what South African must aim for, that's the Identity thread we need to elevate more thn black, white, Pedi or Zulu.......great conversation wena mazincengela. Young and old, active citizenry is truly important, especially US youngsters, we are the ones who will raising our kids in this country, so we need to make sure it is habitable for all of us.......and white people must call those other white people out when they are doing wrong, because within the black society, we know that you guy forget your morals when you are suppose to call each other out, don't try protect colour but protect humanity
Not just whites that must call each other out, all must call each other out when doing wrong.
Shew didn't realise Farm murders were so ruthless in SA. The media is really quite about this.
Very intresting conversation and worthy listening to. I liked how you addressed Julius Malema's none pledge. Brilliant summation
Penuel and Van Zyl would make great president's 🎉❤
Great Konvos. Pen
Great show guys.
I agree with that--if you want to have things/demand things, what will you're responsibilties be? Like students demanding to have money and accomodation, etc.I am always wondering --what are expected of them when they are finished with their studies? Do they ever pay back, a part at least.
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 Being entitled to rights, without wanting to have an obligation for responsibilities.
Tribes must be proud of there culture and respect other cultures.
Our future is lying in cultural communities under a confederal system.
What a interesting discussion it was
Farmers globaly are under attack.
as is everyone living remotely just saying. learn from orania regarding their views regarding not living lavishly behind high walls
Yes, and it is an attack on our freedom. Food security is under attack and will drive up prices. It will make us slaves…. Food slaves.
Voting with your labor … very insightful … How is my employer using my life force at work to gaining power and influence. How is that company using the power I have given.
I am a huge fan!
When will your podcasts be available on Spotify again?? 😭
South Africa has a crime problem, it's not about Gender, Race or Age. And after all this we have "hate" problem, that's why this interview is this long.
So, for example, you deny that men commit violent crimes more often than women?
In many ways we hold our community to a higher standard, than those outside of our culture. Hence our total disdain for joiners in the Boer wars with the British. In many ways we are MORE hurt when the perpetrator is from our own community. So, yes we DO believe that we will react the same way. Maybe it's because, like Penuel said, that some communities do not value life as much.
excellent observation
So this people have 350k scared people after their swart gevaar mambo jambo.
@@penekedirero4636 one shouldnt propagandize when drinking ..
I agree, that because black lives have historically been devalued even so we have normalised injustice and it still continues I haven't seen a serious protest over black exploitation and landlessness instead I see people fighting for white interest and standards
Your Higher standards are Apartheid right? Stop it.
Podlitiek verteenwoordig.
This KONVO reminds me of Thomas Sowell’s philosophy which he discovered in his photography work, the same way you make trade offs with your camera settings to get the best results is the same way life operates. “There are no solutions just trade offs” This was a super convo but begs the question how does SA start the process of ensuring that the land is redistributed across the country with fairness and empathy as the bedrock of that trade off. Looking forward to getting someone to tackle that one🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
Give the government land to the poor
Lol Dan Corder is the absolute reason I do not listen to 5fm anymore. I'm 40 years old so I know what an absolute cultural juggernaut 5fm was in the 90s cos they played rock and roll man and nobody cared how many beanies you were wearing back then.
Dan is afraid of Ernst😂 no wonder he declined the invite to debate.
in a way i like the idea of empowering people but at the same time doing the things at your expense fixing the roads, repairing infrastructure, yet stil paying taxes for the government to do the very thing you are doing yourself.... and then they raise the taxes yet more, for not doing anything
That's the big frustration sadly.
Classic Dan. I expected as much.
So my husbands grandfarther was murdered on his farm. Three guys visited his farm. The ask if they could buy his bakkie. The dog was barking and he decided to close the dog in the house. They tied his grandpa up and dosed him with petrol and set him on fire. Took his bakkie. No its not a tall tale. It happened.
I get it people see, people are aware of who is actually helping and making a difference. There needs to be accountability on this government we cant just let them get away with all their nonsense. what we will be left with is people paying for things out of their own pocket while government just gets our tax money and has a party its not right man. There must be a way to get government to come to the party and stop this gravy train of theirs
As long as black South African deny and condemn Farmer murders the "Propaganda" as you call it will be pushed.
So it's not propaganda?
@@BandzMakeHerDance595 Do you want an actual answer?
@@user-jr2ue9nu6y sure it'll help
@@user-jr2ue9nu6y sure
Much like when they say when whites stole all the land or there was a black genocide under apartheid. So it's not propaganda?
The Oranje, Blanje, and Blou flag was created when the Union of South Africa was created after 1910. One of the things that's very important to understand about South Africa is that it is like so many other African countries an artificial entity created by the Brits. The South Africa that we know in its present borders is only 104 years old. And in 1990 when we went through our transition it was only 80 years old. It was the creation of the British Empire. Britain acquired possession of most of the territories of Southern Africa in the nineteenth century in what one historian referred to as a fit of absentmindedness.
Whites SA are always lumped together as Afrikaans yet its sooo not true
@@expose_massive_banking_crime Why do you not verify what I posted before you make a fool out of yourself!!
I think many white South Africans also need to understand that we, unlike Europeans, do not want to live in homogeneous countries. So telling us our identities are artificial isn't effective on us.
@@FictionHubZA Yes, right. Is Nosiviwe Mapisa Nqakula your auntie?
@@willemvanaswegen1937 No. I am not related to her.
I don't have the "4 colour" flag which represents the fight against the British "invasion" of south africa. Both my grandparents on both parents side were interned by the British in concentration camps, their farms raised, animals confiscated and the farm workers lost employment, homes, food.
This action by the british was directed at all south africans no matter their race.
This really needs to be addressed: the role of "die hensoppers" (those that willingly surrendered to The Crown)
because we had Hensoppers 2.0 in '94... colluding with enemies behind closed doors 🤑🤑🤑
How is the Wikipedia "context" rubbish now added?
TH-cam automatically generates it based on the Thumbnail and caption
@@sizwedubeelimthende Yes, I know.
Thanks!
I think it's time we as South Africans need to discuss the issue of dividing the land into it's four nations leaving in it, where Blacks, Whites, Coloured and Indians can have their own land regions to rule themselves according to their culture, traditions and religion. We can still do business and share scientifically and technology ideas with each other and also be one state.
You are describing apartheid.
I inherited a stamp collection from all the homelands' post offices. Theyre as ornate & quality as any European stamp
I agree, we can still have an economic union like the EU but different countries with their own constitution.
Incredibly insensible idea.
More division mxm phambene wena
Most of us belong to some kind of group-family, language, community,culture, church. Without being racist, you must feel free to associate with whom you want. All over the world you have that.Why do we make it such a big issue in South Africa??
Because of our history.
Black ppl were treated like dirt because of their race and languages. That's why it's a pain point. I hope that makes sense.
@@Penuelism Access to White people is not a human right.
@@Penuelism That's true. But are you suggesting black people didn't treat black people exactly the same way? Is that why the Zulus had slavery? Is that why you had slavery in Zimbabwe long before Europeans?
The problem logically speaking is that there is one standard applied to people of European descent, and another to everyone else, who engaged in slavery and ethnic suppression all the same.
political manipulation from all sides re race
Theo I think part of the problem we black people have is we will raise the point that white people have hurt and someone will immediately say "well I saw you hurt other people that look like you" we not claiming moral high ground we just merely stating that I was hurt by you, it is the responsibility of the one I hurt to raise their own grievance and not for you to absolve your transgressions by using they pain , accept your wrong doing so progress together me and you are South Africans if you always short change my pain ,I will always view as a perpetrator who shows no remorse.
South Africa is in the dungeon. You give platform to these. Total capture of Africa. Unbelievable!
What do you mean??
👏🏾🙌🏾
Penuel's counter arguments covering farm murders (echoing what we see online - not sure he believes it) is quite telling. There is very little listening in general (not on this podcast). A lot of opponents of AfriForum bring their own emotions/preconceptions/racism to the party when discussing this issue.
Thanks
why must we do these things when we are paying for the service? That's my issue, otherwise happy to be self sufficient
exactly
@konvo_za Around the question of whether it would be different if these things were widely accepted to have been done by "white" people, the proof for his answer lays in his and the afrikaners" visceral reaction when talking about the vier kleur, the anglo-boer wars and lead up the them that were essentially "whites killing whites". NB the treatment of the people before their death is mostly what is remembered in both cases. It is difficult to answer a rhetorical question like that and be certain about your answer, but luckily we can go back in the history of the boere very far to see if the people that they get their values, world-view and genetics from would have reacted the same way if the other party was white, because for a lot of boere history they were. You can draw the same parallels for most of the rhetorical questions that we have today as a SOMEWHAT objective tool in an emotionally charged time where we all have blind spots. Thank you for your many enlightening interviews
the difference is that the farm murd3rs are targeted, and those being murd3red make up a very small community compared to the rest of the country. The rate of murd3rs of farmers is proportionally higher than most of the rest of the country. The reason outsiders highlight these attacks is because they're often very brutal and gruesome, often it's not just about robbing people, but making them suffer. I've seen the crime scene photos before and I will be forever scarred and haunted. Outsiders also highlight it because in Europe and America we're starting to see such attacks too not on farms but just in general, but it's discouraged to talk about it.
All white men need a friend like Penuel! Myself included.
No use going to a funeral and wedding if you cannot speak the language of the local people.
You'd be surprised. Humanity isn't always about speaking a language, but showing up and showing compassion.
Language is merely one aspect of showing uBuntu.
Black pen I don't agree with you on a lot off things,really,but I agree with on a lot,still love you a lott
Plees to kno thet 3 year ago the farmer and my bruther was shot ded while open farm gate. Today 50 peeples suffer on this farm . No job becos estat have no monies. All enimals was sold everything is stand still. Nobody know now what to do. 😢😢😢
Free dome of expression like elonmusk baught free speach for the world !, tiwtter, Afriforum are fighting for free dome,think about that. Afriforum I hear you got my vote.
Leadership is a huge responsibility and is bestowed to individuals by God's election of grace because the earth belongs to Him. Jesus came as a leader and broke the walls of separation. All who lead irrespective of calour of their or his skin, they are given responsibility to bring people in their respective space together without favoritism because one day they are going to account to the Lord. This a divine responsibility not because you are wiser than others.
What Boshoff refers to as "South Africa as a community of communities" is actually coded language for segregation among ethnic lines, in other words: apartheid 2.0 and the partition of South Africa into dysfunctional smaller ethnostates, similar to the failed former "bantustans".
Every "community" (= ethnic group or "race") is supposed to live seperately from one another in the minds of Boshoff and his NATSi (National Party) ideology.
I'm surprised Penuel doesn't have the intellect to decode what these people actually mean when they use such phrases. People recommended me Penuel's show, proclaiming that he is a smart guy doing profound interviews, yet I see him falling victim to the simplest demagogy.
They applaud him because he listens to those people
Ernst had the perfect response to black gaslighting on the farm murder issue.