The Afrikaner Problem | Discussion Stream
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2024
- On this episode I discuss the "Afrikaner Problem" that empires, regimes and foreign interests have run into, and continue to run into, at the southern tip of Africa. The ideas discussed in this stream are highly influenced by the writing of N.P. van Wyk Louw in his book, Liberale Nasionalisme.
~ [Stream of Consciousness Episode 151]
LINKS
Telegram: t.me/Conscious...
Afrikaanse kanaal: / @inalleernst
Twitter: / concaracal
Minds: www.minds.com/...
![일상 속 기분 좋음 [Proto disco meme]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DwmEIaZ7XGQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Has anyone attempted to digitize important Afrikaans writings? Once they’re digitized, they’re very easy to translate - and preserve. I worry what might happen if some people decide that libraries are a vestige of colonialism that need to be burned down.
Great point. Absolutely a noble project that needs to be embarked on.
@@upstumps Hallo, ongelukkig is hierdie vêr buite my veld van vaardighede.
@@ConsciousCaracal It would take a large group like Afriforum to organize. Perhaps in addition to Afriforum TV and Afriforum Teater, someone could get Kallie Kriel interested in Afriforum Biblioteek.
@@habakkuk2fourAkademia (deel van die Solidariteit Beweging) het 'n groeiende fisiese biblioteek wat mense aan kan skenk.
@@ConsciousCaracal Miskien sal hulle een of ander tyd digitaal gaan - dit sal 'n wonderlike hulpbron vir tuisskolers wees.
I love learning about Afrikaner history.
So wonderful. Thank You Ernst.
Trots Afrikaans. My Heart bleeds for Our People. We are here to stay.
@Conscious Caracal You and I would probably not totally agree on some later 19th century South African history, but I have always liked you, as a honourable man, doing his best to fight for his people. More power to you.
Thank you, IronDuke. As I told someone in the comments, the complexities and nuances of Afrikaner-Anglo relations in SA will be a topic for a future stream.
"Take a community of Dutchmen of the type of those who defended themselves for fifty years against all the power of Spain at a time when Spain was the greatest power in the world. Intermix with them a strain of those inflexible French Huguenots who gave up home and fortune and left their country for ever at the time of the revocation of the Edict of Nantes. The product must obviously be one of the most rugged, virile, unconquerable peoples ever seen upon earth. Take this formidable people and train them for seven generations in constant warfare against savage men and ferocious beasts, in circumstances under which no weakling could survive, place them so that they acquire exceptional skill with weapons and in horsemanship, give them a country which is eminently suited to the tactics of the huntsman, the marksman, and the rider. Then, finally, put a finer temper upon their military qualities by a dour fatalistic Old Testament religion and an ardent and consuming patriotism. Combine all these qualities and all these impulses in one individual, and you have the modern Boer - the most formidable antagonist who ever crossed the path of Imperial Britain. Our military history has largely consisted in our conflicts with France, but Napoleon and all his veterans have never treated us so roughly as these hard-bitten farmers with their ancient theology and their inconveniently modern rifles. Look at the map of South Africa, and there, in the very centre of the British possessions, like the stone in a peach, lies the great stretch of the two republics, a mighty domain for so small a people. How came they there? Who are these Teutonic folk who have burrowed so deeply into Africa? It is a twice-told tale, and yet it must be told once again if this story is to have even the most superficial of introductions. No one can know or appreciate the Boer who does not know his past, for he is what his past has made him."
- Arthur Conan Doyle
I admire the optimism! I don't see much of it in the rest of the west.
Being part of solutions breeds optimism.
@@ConsciousCaracal Just found your channel. I have to ask. What is your opinion of Hendrik Verwoerd?
The Afrikaner needs a homelamd to preserve, protect and promote their culture and identity within the boundaries of the current South Africa.Power and territory must be shared in order to achieve a equitable and workable outcome.ldentity is the ultimate stuff of.politics
Not here they can find land in Europe
We are staying in Africa because we are born here,we Boere are not european.we have a history of building and war.we will fight again.@@mayaya890
they/you should not try to carve out a slice of africa all for yourself. you/they should intergrate or leave. same goes for any populations going anywhere
@@krishendo9433 And where do you think biltong and a potjie came from?😁 We contributed to the culture of South-Africa, never displaced it. Why do you think even at the end of Apartheid less than 5000 deaths could be attributed to the security forces? We never moved in behind a professional army like elsewhere, but with cattle and real goods to trade for land. Can you find one clash where the Boers chased people off their land and didn't trade for it?
Ah man! So badly wanted to catch this live. Baie dankie, Eskom 🙄.
This is so Interesting.
I am indian but i love afrikaner culture...they made what SA today is...they made barren wast land a heaven ❤
Hope you will get your pride again
I'm an Afrikaner and I love Indian culture. I appreciate that. Jay Bharat ki Jay.
@@Oatmeal_Mann
Did you and your fellow Afrikaners love Indian culture pre 1994.
@@maureenjackson2041 Depends on the individual I suppose. From older people I get the impression that in general they certainly appreciate Indian culture, at least on some level, but that religion certainly is a dividing issue. Older Afrikaners and some younger people, can be very dogmatic Calvinist Christians who want to convert everyone and we certainly see that in the past and even the present in Afrikaner-Indian relations.
For many it was an opportunity to enjoy their religious beliefs.
My hart swel as ek na ons geskiedenis luister baie lekker gesels❤
I am a proud Afrikaner, and yes, we are fearless. That is why certain groups in SA want to get rid of of us, because they fear us...
Rooineks?
Nope...EFF
Love the Afrikaners! I am South African!❤
The Afrikaners will rise again!
Without a doubt. When both SA and the Western world fall into chaos the Afrikaner will have to seize control of his own destiny, Orania style in order to.survive
Lol nope they won't
@@nathanbraidman5372good luck with that 😂😂😂
If I recall correctly there was a list of 100 grievances that the leader of Dutch settlers (Pretorius I think) sent to the The Cape's British Governor as the reason for the trek into the interior. The outlaw of slavery was only one of 100 grievances and it was more about the British Empire telling Dutch settlers what they can and can't do rather then about the ownership of slaves.
History is complex and nuanced, who would have thought?
Klink na 💩
Manifesto of the emigrant farmers By Piet Retief, 1837
2. We complain of the severe losses, which we have been forced to sustain by the emancipation of our slaves, and the vexatious laws, which have been enacted respecting them.
@@jfkmuldermedia Like I said there were 100 reasons and you are focusing on one. The primary reason was about land not slaves. The British Governor did not want to expand the borders of the Cape Colony eastward to provide the trekboers with access to more prime pasture.
Are u thinking of.Piet Retief's Manifesto? That sums it up perfectly.
Best accidental open ever. I’ve always wanted to stare longingly into EvZ’s eyes. 😂
Wonderlike werk Rooikat ❤ Dankie!!!
USA is welcoming. Southern California has similar climate. Also, lots of cheap farm land in Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas.
Lol. Welcoming Afrikaners to California is like sending them into the past 10- or 20-years. Today's South Africa is the future of Democrat-run states like California. Texas is not much better.
Did you know that there is an English woman living in Cape Town, who has a doctorate in History . She was doing research on Revelation, when she had a word vision in her kitchen . She saw the words “wat jy weet moet jy bekend maak” coming down from the sealing. Why Afrikaans words for an English lady? The research was about the history of the Church over 2000 years. I am still puzzled about the Afrikaans words. Is there a message for Afrikaners? She published her research in a book called “How near Armageddon.” It is available on the internet. The book was published in 1999. In this book she made a prediction of a very large earthquake that will happen in 2004 around Christmas time. All the world saw this.
She is not English. I know her. Her Surname is Janson
Would you class the previous ‘regime’, the NP as a party masquerading as ‘Afrikaners’ therefore muddying the water.
The NP party members were certainly Afrikaners/Boers. Of course, there were some English South Africans in the mix as well. A volk is made up of good and bad, loyal and traitorous, honest men as well as despicable deceivers. You get it all, in every nation.
There is out there a disparity on the definition between an Afrikaner and the Boer, it is suggested that the Afrikaner took ideological precedence over the Boers and suppressed them. It is also stated that the Afrikaner are ‘leftest’ in there mind set. Your view on this would be enlightening
Like I said, it's not really a serious distinction or point of contention you encounter in the real world.
Today, the terms are used completely interchangeably by the vast majority of Afrikaners/Boers.
Yes there os a small group of Afrikaner who think they can make draw a judgement between what Jesus calls the Sheep and the Goats ... this splintergroup have delusions of grandeur based on Elitism similar to the White Israelite Replacement theology of the British... since my ancestors are both Afrikaner as well as Boer, i sympathies with their dilemma ... but firmly reject it
Since both Elitist Class and Replacement theology is dead and without merit in the eyes of God and the Afrikaner volk
you are correct.
@Rooikat, I find the folks stew curios point, you talk about the folk stew as a negative, but the afrikaaner was born out of almost sutch a stew, or am I wrong ? I would also like to hear why you think Afrikaaners are so willing to marry English people, after all the english did to the Afrikaaners
Question 1:
N.P. van Wyk Louw's negative idea of the "volk stew" relates to the loss/destruction of identity through this process, not the creation of something new. Indeed, the Afrikaners are an amalgamation of different peoples, but they all came together to form a unique, distinct new people or volk.
On the other hand, the "volk stew" Van Wyk Louw is talking about, is a standardization process, whereby through the loss, destruction or resignation of unique cultural identities, different peoples simply merge together into a grey, homogenous, identityless mass. Like mixing all the ingredients you have in the kitchen into one pot.
Question 2:
We remember, and will never forget, but we don't hold revenge or burning ethnic hatred in our hearts. There is also a major difference between the Empire and English South Africans. The fascinating history of Afrikaner/Anglo relations will have to be a topic for a future stream.
@@ConsciousCaracal Hulle word net ingebring, maar die kinders is Afriksaans 😅
English/Afrikaner intermarriage is pretty common in the Cape at least.
You need a Afrikaner haven state for yourselves
How exactly would that work
@@bafanamahlatse1923 Simple, Like Orania, and i think many would prefer independent states, where 1, people can get out from under majority tyranny and the constant empowerment of fascistic Marxists like ANC, EFF, and many like them. 2 Leave many of the victims to their devices so that they can finally learn to take responsibility for themselves and quite the demonetization and blaming of, whites, the past and Afrikaners. Afrikaners get to finally be left alone, and other tribes get to learn to deal with their own kak.
...Dorsland Trek to Namibia, Angola. Some Voortrekkers went to Zimbabwe. Some Afrikaners went to Argentine
De Klerk should have told Mandela, ‘’ listen to me… you’re only coming out if you agree on a confederation of South Africa, and we want the Transvaal, Orange free state and little bit of area on the map surrounding Cape Town stellenbosh etc.. be ours. The rest you can distribute as you wish. You be head of state, I’ll be deputy, Zulu’s will crate zululand, Xhosa will have Eastern cape.. etc.. but the fool didn’t do it and just handed the country over to a terrorist organisation called the ANC..
Oh well…maybe one day in our dreams
We’ll get some justice….
The lack of intellectualism seems from the social severity of calvinism
So many Afrikaaners are leaving Africa, not all of you CAN leave so were stuck with each other.
Actually, if you look at the emigration statistics, most of us have stayed. If memory serves, only about a few hundred thousand white people have left SA and I think most of them were English.
The Boer People did not COLONIZE South Africa. South Africa was barren except for the Koi San when our fore Fathers arrived here, escaping from Europe to prevent from being killed by the Roman Catholic Sect as they have done all over South America. When Gold was discovered, the British Colonized South Africa hence the resulting Anglo Boer wars.! The British Colonized Natal and tried to destroy the ZULU Nation and the Boers that was Farming the Lands acquired from the Zulu Kings legally.!
Wat Ur saying doesn't really make sense.in the first half of Ur paragraph u say south Africa was barren .but later you say , Afrikaners got land legally from the Zulu .
The Zulu primary inhabit KZN and south and central mpumalanga.these regions have few few Afrikaans speakers or even farmers.
It is true that the the western cape and northern cape ( excluding the north east of the province) didn't have a Bantu speaking population.but the east of the country certainly did.it is also true that Afrikaaner made legislation like the land act and groups area act forcefully removed millions of Africans from their homes .
@@bafanamahlatse1923No, it does. Land was never stolen in the Cape, as you have admitted. It was largely empty. However, there was empty pieces of land to the east as well, some unclaimed and some claimed by the Zulus as "extra." In other words, empty land was bought, specifically from King Mpande, among others. The Land Act evicted the families of black people who had come to work for us from the lands acquired by whites, as far as I understand, but it didn't take black-owned land for whites. In fact, it evicted many whites from black-owned land.
@@Oatmeal_Mann the "extra" land part of your reply doesn't sound factual. Where did get the idea that land was claimed as "extra".
Africans didn't have the same concept of ownership as Europeans. To Africans land was grazed wen it was fruitful and when it wasn't ppl moved to better pieces of land. Different clans farmed side by side without much issue. European ownership declared land as theirs and their alone. This was completely at odds with the African view of communal use.
Something that also puzzles me is how European in good faith were able to negotiate with ppl who spoke a language they never heard before or understood. How could they negotiate on things they saw so differently. I see this idea of Africans negotiating with Europeans in good faith as myths like other European made fairytales like the so called mfecane wars
The land act was a horrible act. It initially limited land for Africans to 7 percent than increased to 13.between 1960 and 1983. 3.5 million Africans were removed from land they had been settling on.
I do agree that a few whites were evicted from land reserved for the African reservations. But those whites were very few and we're compensated. The Africans removed by the afrikaners were not.
@@bafanamahlatse1923 All I meant by "extra" was that it was claimed but not being used. For example, I may own two blankets, but I may only use one tonight and leave the other one in a cupboard. You would still be stealing if you were to take it, because although I'm not using right now, it's mine. It's just "extra" in the sense that I don't strictly need it, but I still have it. I meant that the land sold to the Voortrekkers in this case was Zulu-owned land that they weren't using at that particular moment, so they could sell it as surplus.
Ownership, whether in African or European or Asian societies, is possession plus identification. That is, I "have" something and I see it as being "of me" or "for me." I say so, because I have plenty of things that I see as being "of" or "for" someone else ; that is, things I'm borrowing. I also might have things that I see as "for me" or "of me", like someone else's car but unless I buy or steal it, I can't say that I own it. That's just coveting. Black Africans owned a piece of land when they were using it (farming or living on it) and identified with it, as being for them or of them. When they left it, they may have seen it as still being of them or for them, but since they abandoned it for someone else to take it, it wasn't theirs. You can still say that you feel that they *should* have had it, or that they are the rightful owners, but to own something and being entitled to own something are two different things.
The reason they could negotiate is the same reason we can have this conversation right now. White people simply learnt black languages and vice versa. In the case of Dingane and Mpande, I believe it was a British missionary they hired to do the interpretation. He had went to live with the Zulus to learn their language so he could preach to them. This happened many times all over the world.
Saying that you don't believe the historically proven facts like land deals amounts to history denial and conspiracy theorism. The Mfecane is also fact, although I admit that it has been used to paint black Africans as being at odds with one another when the reality was more complex than that. White people have also fought each other a lot, but it doesn’t mean we can't work together today and if we can, so can black people.
I'm sorry to be so blunt, but the land that black Africans were living on was legally acquired by whites and was therefore their land. If it was their land, they could evict anyone they pleased. If I own property, I can kick you off of it. I know that forced evictions split families apart and that is lamentable, but I think the Land Act wasn't as bad as the ANC had propagandized it as having been. But I suppose if you can doubt our version of events, I can doubt yours. It's only fair, right? No hard feelings, man. I hate noone but I have to believe what I think there is more evidence for and I'm going with the well-documented white version of the history.
@@Oatmeal_Mann I agree, no hard feelings. Just a discussion. I dispute that asians, Europeans and Africans had the same concept of land ownership. My family lived in the lebowa bantustan. We didn't own land. It's was used as a collective.thats the system still used in many rural African communities.
The mfecane doesn't seem factual to me. Even the word "mfecane" has no meaning. Even the proposed sotho version difaqane has no meaning. This word was coined by a white person in the 1930s.i forgot his name. But I think his surname was walker. The mfecane has no start or stop date. No exact enemies fighting and no exact death toll.
The mfecane seems more the propaganda than reality.cuz the word mfecane doesn't exist in the zulu language. I agree the were battles in wat is nou kzn. But I dispute the genocidal stories promalgated by white historians and the apartheid government.
I dispute the idea that Europeans could legally own 93 percent the landmass of the country. Ppl who were not even native to the continent.It's like saying just because the British went to idea and claimed it as their own then they actually own it.
I personally distrust white version of history. It creates these strange dinamics. Like saying the Xhosa and zulu hate each other but these groups have never had a war. Claims that afrikaner arrived in South Africa before the bantu.
Much in common with Israelis within the Muslim world.
Builders and developers