Tiling over concrete? DO THIS to prevent disaster!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ต.ค. 2022
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For me, the ideas in th-cam.com/users/postUgkxAfqpMLyFn37qcqUl0FAzqkkycQeXqrhP Plans were a starting point for building different sheds . Ryan gives ideas that allow an individual to draw nicest conclusions into the design and building of his or her own shed.
I tiled a behind the bar area in my parents home 42 years ago. It was a 4x8 clay tile and I put it directly to the concrete. As advertised, the concrete cracked. Dad never did anything and the crack is still there today. But the tile which cracked, has never broken free from the concrete.
Thank you. I’ll be using this on our outdoor patio as well as checking out the waterproof version for a second floor concrete deck
Thanks you just answered the problem I have been dwelling on for 3 years. I have cracked tiles and tiles coming loose all over my house, which is built on expansive clay soil. The contractor just placed the tiles directly on the concrete floor and it was a bad move.
Thanks for this awesome tip, specially diy~ers appreciate this important info
I've used them all except usg. I'll have to try it matt. I love all these Matt's especially for the uncoupling and waterproofing. And the ease of putting it down .
Thanks for sharing Matt as always appreciated
Really great product review. Thank you for making it. Maybe include the product with the water proofing next time?
Love it, FANTASTIC Product!
i wish they had something like this for engineered hardwood. matt please make a video on EHW on concrete
Can you use this as underlayment for a poured concrete finished floor?
Keep up the great videos. Would like to see some videos on fireproofing products or fire rating products. Thank you
Oh man! Wish I had known about this before having our tile installed in our house. We've had stuff from water, to cement salts, etc seeping through. Such a pain.
Your foundation has water soaking into it from somewhere. If you had used this, you would just be putting a bandaid on it, causing more problems in the long term. Get your foundation checked out, if you haven't already. I've run into customers with this problem quite a few times already.
Back patio?! Why haven’t we seen anything on your patio? It looks amazing
Thank you, Matt.
I'm wondering if this would be a good underlayment/insulation/vapor option, for when we pour a room full of floor leveling compound, on a concrete basement floor?
🤔
Great idea!
Ooooh I need this one
Yep, and nearly EVERY builder here (in Austin) applies tile right to the concrete. When I mentioned using Schluter, they said "it's too much".
I’ve used Schluter and believe in the concept for indoor use. I like the idea of less expensive alternatives such as this, especially for outdoor paving. I’m far enough north that I would use unglazed quarry tile or natural stone on top of it, but Matt’s outdoor fireplace area looks very nice.
Place joints in concrere to correspond to grount lines in tile.
Use silicone or butyl rubber where grout joints line up with control joints.
@@aredditor4272 Any examples of this?
@@timothykeith1367 Lancaster California public library. I don't have images. I noticed the technique right after it opened many years ago.
Never left my head, I thought it was a brilliant idea.
It’s overpriced and not necessarily. Use a topical membrane on the cracks and a good modified mortar on the rest of the install. It’ll last decades
I removed all the old carpet in our house in 2017 and laid 6”X36” tile planks over the existing slab and haven’t had any tiles crack so far. 1968 home.
Hi Matt,
What a great video for us as we have a concrete patio with a large crack running through it that would look great in tiles.
Thanks again
Check up first how much or how wide of a crack can it "absorb" or bridge...
I personally think it's less then a 1.5mm
Great info!
What about if you want to install engineered floating floor? Same scenario as tile install?
If product A is 50% more expensive than product B, this means that product B is 33% cheaper than A. Math.
Thank you.
Decoupling membranes work great and are easier to install. One limitation worth pointing out is they should not be used with small format tiles smaller than 2"x2".
Interesting... thanks for the tip.
@@skellington2000 ditra is a decoupling membrane, they are basically the same thing.
Matt is just a shamwow infomercial guy 90% of the time. Durock this week, ditra next week. Wouldn’t be surprised if there is a rep just off camera coaching.
Will this work in freezing weather on a outside slab? Just wondering because cold weather tends to not play well with water.
These decoupling membranes really work. They also provide a bit of insulation barrier from the concrete below.
Yep, they do... it's really a must have ! even on ply or osb.
I wonder the impact on a heat load calculation. Currently wrightsoft has no option
@@MicahFunk I'll take it. Anything is a bonus on top of the walls and ceiling. Thanks for the input. I'm curious your background knowing that?
@@JB-yq9bn I'm always the student in regards the custom building trades. Always looking for a better way in building practices. Also a few months ago completed a custom master bathroom with large curbless shower with updated technology and knowledge.
I'm the kind of person who enjoys geeking out in building science 😂
That's a good point, I hadn't thought about it providing a bit of insulation.
Excellent
Is flexible tile adhesive available in the US?
Solves the problem
Looks great!, I got the same thing, I got underfloor heating system, and covered with 6cm concrete but is already cracked, don't know what to do I'll do myself, not professional but I do my best lol, just a question if I put this stuff under the travertin I will lose some heat because this gonna block the heat to heat the tile up?
Thanks for info! what if there are no cracks in the concrete, then I don't need this do I?
Can this also be used on wood subfloors, in place of Durock?
Hi Matt What happens were the mat joins each other is there no movement at these points ?
looking to do an exterior porch and patio would this be good to but down first before porclen tile
Is not an elastic "floor heating" type of thinset good enough to handle the non-transmission of those minor cracks?
Matt, we bought a tract built townhouse and immediately replaced all the flooring on the slab-on-grade first floor with porcelain tile. Looked amazing! Just sold the home and tile still looked great 4 years later; not a single crack. I watched that flooring obsessively. Why do you think we got away with no cracking? I was thinking to do the same in a new house… now not sure…
It was probably a post tension slab.
Would this be ok with underfloor heating?
Can this be used when also adding heating under the tile?
Can I use the thinset over a water based Behr stain on my covered patio?
Good info Matt, we can and should build better 😁
Could it be used over wood framing
I live in Texas, and it gets REALLY hot in the summer, is this still recommended for outdoor use if I wanted to install tile or pavers on my concrete outdoor patio?
How much is Schulter Per sq/ft? Could you install this over a wood sub-floor?
I use Schluter but this stuff looks good
Can I put porcelain tiles on outside concrete patio? Or should I use only specific tile that made only for outdoor???
Can you use this on wood (OSB/Plywood) subfloors?
Do you recommend this over a liquid membrane? Or would you use both. For exterior application thank you
I have the same question
I like Nac's Crack isolation membrane, 40 or 90 mil, 2 part , primer, & membrane, only 1/16-1/8 thickness
Can this be used with radiant heat in slab? I read install instructions dosen't say anything about radiant.
I have a front porch and it cracked since we move to the house. It looks terrible, we painted but the paint fell off. we live in a cold weather area with lots of snow in winter. Planning to put tiles or pavers but I do not know what to ask to the landscaper guys or maybe my husband ( who is handy) can do this. I just want to specify: the landscapers are very expensive and snobby in my area, they are only a handful and they want big jobs. I got my patio done after waiting 3 years for a quote, i hired a guy who was out of town. He is retired now. any ideas could help me to do ourselves or keep try with a landscaper. Thanks.
Your tilesetters should be keying in the thinset with the flat side of the trowel before spreading out with the notch for better adhesion. I know it's a nitpicky thing but it's the right way to do it.
Isaac, can you tell me a little more about this please?
What about Blanke SecurMat Uncoupling Underlayment ?
What did you put underneath that mat? Was that cement? If so, what type?
Can epoxy flooring mix be poured on top of this product?
wow I need this on my kitchen tile floor! they cracked like crazy after this dry summer. Gonna have to redo the whole floor I will definitely be using this. Do they make it for use with electric heating?
This is what I am wondering too, will it work with radiant heating mats under it?
Can i use this over wood subfloor
Awesome video!! If you ever want to try our boots, let us know!!
Just to clarify, are you saying you can use this system for exterior patios? I have a concrete patio with a large crack I'd like to tile over
This is timely. I’ve seen Matt talk about the Schluter Ditra mat before, this is obviously a sponsored video, but I’d be interested to know the differences between them.
50% $$$ lol
Other than cost, they are the same.
@@cpad007 Well the Ditra is orange, so there's that...
Can you use that outdoors?
I would think this provides a thermal break between the slab and tile too. A slab is a lot if mass to heat
How well would it transfer heat if I was using radiant heat in my slab?
All over Texas
Does anyone know if this product can be used to encapsulate old 9" VCT tiles with new porcelain/ceramic tiles?
Vapor doesn't come through concrete unless it's at 100% moisture level which
would mean it's literally under water. Before installing the tile fill the cracks with polymer base mortar let dry and then lay your tile using a mortar with polymer!
Can you recommend a product as an example?
So this could be used with ceramic tile on a wood subfloor with a crawlspace in the place of cement board?
I'd like to see someone build a house using nothing but what Matt recommends. I'd bet it comes in well north of $500/ft.
But long term costs and efficiency will pay for it in no time
@@mabolzichjjl I'd argue that, say a 2000' house saves $200/month in utility costs. Your ROI on that million dollar house is decades. With interest rates the way they are, you'll never really pay for it in efficiency savings. Sure the finishes are top notch, I don't deny its beauty, but much of it stops there, most of it is a luxury.
Well . . like anything in life, you can buy a Kia or you can buy a Mercedes. Matt is selling you a Mercedes.
@@crabkilla Sort of, I agree, but in the same breath everything is "affordable". Call and get a window quote from EAS.
@@pyroman590 Yeah, I hear you. Matt does a great job of showing the options and the advantages/disadvantages. You can pick and choose your house receipe 100's of different ways.
Can this be used for an outdoor tile on concrete install?
Will it cause any condensation.
I understand this is sponsored but is there data on how performance for this compares to Schluter Ditra or Laticrete Stratamat?
schluter is too $$$$$$$
I’ve had both at my house and they both have worked well. The Ditra has tons more options/accessories but this USG product is working great on my exterior porches.
All 3 work fine. I use Mapei’s uncoupling membrane cause that is what is in my area available, priced in the middle and has no memory so lays nice and flat.
They used a sand layer and then a thick mortar bed. That's how they did it since ancient Rome and Egypt.
That would be cheaper material but not labor.
Any uncoupler would work. No big deal.
Would this also be used on top of self leveling stuff that is like concrete?
Yes, most cementitious leveling products will telegraph any cracks that are already existing in the concrete under it. If using the leveling products on a subfloor they are also prone to cracking so an uncoupling membrane is a must.
Übertile übermat is the best uncoupling membrane I've used. It has fleece on both sides to allow for a mechanical bond on both the tile side and substrate side. Schluter ditra at least has dovetails to lock the thinset to the membrane. Thinset does not bond to polyethylene that a lot of these uncoupling membranes are made of. Having said that, I've never seen a tile failure due to this fact.
Post tension slabs have eliminated much of the cracking issues
No joke ! I accidentally jackhammered through a post tension cable on a high rise in Vegas and thought I had heard a lightning crack along with huge plume of debris from the hole… scary as hell !
Can you install this over plywood?
Our stand-alone garage has developed some pretty big cracks.. almost crevices. if we got the concrete sanded/graveled and leveled, would this be a good solution to prevent additional movement?
I doubt it would prevent movement since its drifting apart. Are they the same "plane" like you could place a straight edge across it decently? Or is it different heights? Is your floor properly cut for reliefs?
The real problem is excessive water in the concrete mix. Concrete does not have to crack except concrete placement "professionals" are prone to add excessive water for ease of workability at the jobsite which is directly related to excessive cracking. I've watched this practice increase excessively for over 60 years. Such cracking can be avoided with the proper admixtures and/or methods in placing concrete. As concrete cures, water is evaporated into the atmosphere. The results is a volume reduction and thusly a reduction in the requisite solids and cracked concrete.
Why don't they use superplasticizers more often?
@@OUrVileO ...plasticizors are a "crutch" to jobsite added water. The sub has no idea what they are or what they can do. He's only thinking how he can get his role done with as soon a possible. Every notice the quality of concrete subs these days? Don't even speak English.
Does this mean that old concrete (over 20 years old) can be tiled over without a membrane?
Hey Matt , would that work for laying thin rock over concrete on a patio?
I'm sure Matt would have a more detailed answer but it really comes down to this. If what you are laying is susceptible to cracking then use a membrane. Tile is very susceptible to cracking . Grout can also easily crack so that is a consideration. You said thin rock. If it were me, I would spend the extra buck per sqft and do it. The advantage that Matt mentioned with this product is you can use either modified or unmodified thin-set. The other brands of membrane are very specific and it may be different than what your tile requires.
really what we are talking about is uneven expansion. The uncoupling layer makes the tile assembly slide as 1 unit. When you take that outside, the movement is times 10 (made up number) The temperature changes are wider and more often. The sublayer can move not just left and right but add up and down. So, it "might" help" but there is no guarantee for the same indoor performance
Any conflict with in slab radiant heat?
@Vicki I don't know what you mean.
whats the difference between this and schluter ditra?
What about radiant heat? Which floating tile option would be the best
detra heat, disclaimer schluter has given me education and swag
@@AsHellBored : thanks for your reply. I am referring to Pex hydronic heating
Here in Florida we use Redguard. Great video and thanks for sharing.
Is not Redguard a water proof system? These membranes allow floor to move but not the tile. The membrane will move and leave the tile intact. I'm in Ohio and understand the weather difference means alot in construction.
@@stevehamman4465 Here in Florida the Red Guard seals the concrete, Fills the cracks, Stops any radon from coming through the concrete, protects the tile from cracking but most of all Custom Builders The Manufacturer gives the tile job a lifetime warranty. To get this warranty you need to by their mortar, grout and redguard..
Hello,
I would like to save money by ting over my out door patio.
I have no idea what kind of concrete patio this is. I have never seen concrete like this before. Is it possible to save it ?
did we ever see that rear patio and fireplace video?
Is it water proof?
Is this product approved for a heated floor system application?
Wondering how this affects a floor with radiant heat in it? Does it still allow heat to transfer through easily?
Yes, but I would advise to use a membrane that is used in radiant heat. Even if you use any regular decoupling membranethe R-value is less than R- 0.5 so it's not going to be a big insulating problem.
Even though, I would still like to hear from others who have had this situation and what they did.
Use a rubberised mastic
What if it's granite tile.. will it still crack?
A buck per sqft is high. Another option is to drill many small holes in the floor, perhaps use this for smaller areas like a bathroom.
Ahh needed this
I don't think this is needed on an "old" stable concrete subfloor. You can use this on a wood subfloor! The Schlutter products are crazy over priced. Good to see they have competition.
Mine Concreate is 10 years old. Can I install tiles directly without any membrane?
What if the concrete is 60 years old? In that case it is pretty unlikely that there will be any new/growing cracks, assuming no earthquakes or similar events.
I wonder if there is much proof as to how well the various decoupling techniques work. I'm no expert but here's a few that come to mind: Hydroban/Redguard, type liquid applied, This stuff/schluter matts, concrete board, Tar paper under a mud bed.
It seems to me that many of the benefits of the matt style ones are lower labor. But a cheapskate doing a remodel may be willing to sacrifice time with a cheaper product as long is it ends up with the same quality.
Is there a video about the tiles Matt laid on his porch?
What about on a stone product on a porch?
My old scottish farm house stone floor is set on sand 100 years old + and nothing to crack; no membranes, just dry sand as a giant thermal mass.
GoBoard is the best backer board on the market. Light weight, no mess, waterproof
Do you have to worry about mold or mildew starting underneath since it's a vapor barrier, Matt? Thanks!
Could you use it as a shower backer board?
No!
Even on a tiled garage floor ???
Never used backer board on concrete. Only use it on wood subfloors. Can this be used on a wood subfloor? If not, why mention backer board?
Is there any reason to install this product if the concrete was poured 25 years ago and already has its cracks?