@@CelestialRedPanda Sigma is probably the strongest character in the verse, and all that was said about him after cinematic is "uhhh he`s gaslit to work for Talon or some shit idk" without even showing what he does, the guy likely can solo any faction but haven`t been used for straight anything, biggest wasted potential imo
Most of the characters are wasted. Not just ram. Think about how good some of these others would be in a cinematic. It's such a waste considering how good some of their stories are from what we know. They have the money so there's definitely no real excuse lol
@@retey8982they gave a character control over GRAVITY and then… he just exists? Like we don’t even know what he DOES at talon. Until then my cannon is he files taxes otherwise overwatch would lose to talon lol
it is the best part of what made overwatch great and even goty Ow2 is different they took out all of the good parts and all of the most fun stuff and made it into an unhappy environment for casuals to get bullied by high ranks with unbalanced shit, no fun at all, and sad part Battle passes and skins that cost 50$ instead of making an animated cinematic trailer or series which will give the company tons of money instead of making the game unfun
Unfortunately, Michael Chu who was the senior designer for lore and story in Overwatch left Blizzard in 2020 with a lot of the other high profile Blizzard devs back then so thats a major reason why the Story has been very inconsistent lately. I mean we all know about the Kiriko age discrephancy from a while back.
Anubis is practically the Ultron of Overwatch and has great potential to actually be the ultimate big bad of the entire story since every side would be his enemy: He'll take over Null Sector and force Ramattra to heel and he also seeks humanity death so Overwatch and Talon would be both his foes, as well as the entirety of Earth in general And yet we never heard from him again after Venture found him
It's a heartbreak to realize we're never getting Overwatch back. It's a shame what they've done to the player base and it's own employees since 2018. I would rather fight smurfs that purchase thousands of accounts than see Blizzard consistently charge for battlepasses and skins that used to be free rewards for playing the game. If a miracle happens and they pull it back together to make Overwatch 3, I will answer the call. Always.
we NEEED a ramatra cinematic, he is the best written character that i have seen come out of over watch 2. his lore with zen, his conflicts god i just want another PROPER ramatra cinematic, too bad its probably going to be locked behind the pve.
i do love ram but there’s just potential with him, not even that much of lore and investment from blizzard. if you want, he’s just a concept, while he could be and SHOULD be so much more. look at how nice the interaction he has with zen in the "pve" was. it’s nice but needs more development, i agree with you btw if it wasn’t clear i believe the EXACT same thing for doomfist, he’s such a key character and yet he has nothing for him lore wise
I'd rather they didn't make a cinematic if what we're going to get is what we've been getting. Let him remain as unresolved potential rather than a mid execution.
@@Bardock059 so it had nothing to do with the fact they refused to make any major balance changes to their game? that the gameplay loop was stale and infuriating? I had been playing since launch and hands down ow is a lot more alive now than it was in the last couple years of its initial lifespan
Dragons is peak animation. It took 7 minutes for millions of people to fall in love with not one, but 2 characters and is solely responsible for all the games I lost when a Genji spammed I need healing while 500 meters away from his team. Truly an Overwatch experience.
I'm just sad that Mercy never got her own cinematic. In fact, none of the original healers got any cinematics, and Mercy is THE healer of Overwatch. She and Symmetra had the best potential back stories to tell. How did Mercy develop the valkyrie suit? Did Symmetra willingly replace her arm for cybernetics to be able to create hard light?
I feel as though mercy would've been weird to make a whole cinematic around. Her given background was (and still is) vivid. She's a doctor. It wouldn't make for a very interesting cinematic. Symmetra had some story told throughout the comics they used to do pretty often.
I was waiting for an Overwatch campaign for TEN YEARS. I was so excited when the OW2 trailer first dropped, and they announced they were FINALLY giving EVERYONE what they wanted. I even defended OW2 on release, because yes, it is basically the same game, but I explained to everyone that *this* isn’t the new game. The PvE is the actual reason they’re making Overwatch 2. And then they scrapped it. They just scrapped all that they were setting up for the past TEN YEARS. I have never felt so betrayed by a company in my life, and I just stopped playing the game completely. What I’m trying to say is, the dropoff of Overwatch might be the biggest fumble in videogame history.
i feel you, i haven’t waited that much bc i knew OW thanks to the dragons cinematic back in the day, but since then I craved for the story mode. remember the archives missions ? it felt so close and I would just hope the PvE would drop only to just move on past that and heyyyyy players don’t worry here’s your new battlepass and a moira / diablo immortal reference ! and players seem to even have moved on, it saddens me. seeing players claiming that the game is a PvP anyway and complain about comp was just… remember why you were even playing again after waiting 2 years man. it is the biggest waste of potential and one of the biggest middle finger from a video game company to me.
I’ve always said that Overwatch as a brand was absolutely fumbled. They should have been making books, tv shows, comics, movies, other games, etc. Overwatch was the biggest game in the world for a time. This was before Fortnite. For a company as greedy as Blizzard to not try to make Overwatch the next big thing was an absolute L. Look at Arcane and how that made League of legends so popular. Same thing with Cyberpunk Edgerunners, Last of us and even the Witcher show. Overwatch managed to do a very hard thing and that was create a while cast of new characters that people were invested in. We wanted to know how they became who they were, what they were doing now and what would happen next. Blizzard failed in so many ways but the story and characters of Overwatch deserved better.
they got too comfortable with the money they were making and didnt brance out look at riot they toke risk legend of runeterra leageu of legend fighting game a fucking whole series (arcane) and many small indie games of the lol universe all those things expanded their lore big time
Imagine being as greedy but also lazy as Blizzard. Wanting to squeeze all the money they can out of their players but doing the bare minimum in trying to do so
I firmly believe OWL was the thing that made the story get the short end of the stick. After the first year of ow they focused entirely on OWL and nothing new came out since then. The same revamps of the same old events with minimal changes, the same 3 maps and 3 heroes per year, and slow decline of balance is all that has been happening since year 2. Nothing on a proper story besides rare cinematics that don't actually move the main plot... I've been the one to chant "give us a pve campaign" all the way back then... needless to say, getting excited about ow2 promises backstabbed me hard.
Honestly, the whole thing needs a reboot. There is absolutely no conception of what the plot even is, at its best it's a bunch of characters who were doing cool stuff a decade ago. Start again with a small group of classic characters and an inciting incident. Something is happening, Winston detects it and has to convince his old team to join him, but they all have lives now and are conflicted.
Luckily they have a time related hero. They can have Tracer time slip into the past and start changing the narrative stopping Blackwatch operation and the consequences that come from that change. I think we can continue the story but they need to actually do something with it. They can have multiple arcs and stories at the same time but they need to actually put in work
It died away soon after Sigma... I miss the days when Blizzard would entertain fans with minor hints that would spark wild fan theories and the discovery of Easter eggs hidden across various maps. Overwatch 2 New heroes will never get the same hype that Doomfist did.
same lol i will miss it instead we get OW2 new skins and shills are gonna go crazy over the skin bundles while we fans are just waiting for content coz skins are just a fcking lame excuse for content
Right? The Sombra arg was intense lol. Moira’s reveal was amazing. Sigma’s intro was amazing. New heroes now just get plopped in without any fanfare. Venture doesn’t even have a legendary skin over 6 months after being added lmao
@@razrv3lc Even the new maps lack soul; I can't even remember their names; people hated the gamemode, but the 2CP maps were some of the most fun and unique maps.
@@AridBloom1 they're 3/3 on bad gamemodes in ow2. I didn't even mind 2cp personally. It could've used some adjustments to the functionality and maps but that's about it. The new gamemodes they've added in ow2 are just all bad and unfun to play. I genuinely just want to leave the game if its one of the modes (because they all take over 10 fucking minutes to play IN A QUICK PLAY GAME) but they made the penalties so strict lmao.
I’ve been saying this. They cannot balance it to save their lives as a game but they’ve made Pixar level magic with animations. They’re focusing on something theyre mediocre at rather than focusing on something theyre great at.
they won’t, too risky. the Warcraft movie didn’t work in theaters and since then, they haven’t tried again to make a project in a similar scale for a bigger audience. i just hope that after arcane and cyberpunk edgerunners impact, or even the upcoming genshin impact anime, that blizzard will take the opportunity. but we would need actual quality, the mauga / doomfist cinematics aren’t the standard they should be based on
@@masekyn5480 i do agree with what you're saying but imo blizzard definitely has the budget/money to fund an entire movie or show with the same quality from the 3d overwatch cinematics to make that risk, although i absolutely dont doubt it will be very expensive. if anything, they could just air said movie/show on a streaming service instead of theaters like arcane has done with netflix
Everyone acts like the team stayed the same and just changed direction, rather than the entire team changing. None of the people left on it were the ones that made OW1. They’re pretty much playing with a corpse right now. They don’t know what to do with it because they didn’t make it.
Honestly feel bad for all the VAs, the ones I met at cons were all excited for a proper story mode, a show, movie or anything. And I think at the times I met some of them the original plan for OW2 story mode may have been being recorded. Cause how they spoke to some of us about a potential campaign could see a sparkle in their eyes. But now it’s just been canned cause greedy ceos, investors and more.
It feels like every time a hero joins, cinematic will just be about how they end up joining. Overwatch, Talon and Null Sector and any other organisations or movements they randomly throw in will just be suspended in the moment before action as all the heroes join. The conflict in general is super uninteresting. Null Sector are really bland and Ramm can't carry it. Talon strives for...chaos? Give us some reason why they're doing what they're doing. Give Doom some depth. Also it doesn't feel like a "second omnic crisis" is happening. Is Null Sector even a big group that governments couldn't handle? Why are there never any soldiers fighting Null Sector? All the foot soldiers just seem like mindless robots, not revolutionaries like Ramm. Which is why he can't carry the storyline. The more I say it, the name Null Sector sucks, but it's fitting for my opinions about it's value.
Also, on my first point, the game Smite actually had a similar set-up as every time a new God was introduced to the game, they'd just say "Blank couldn't stay idle any longer and has joined the battle of the Gods" which actually works perfectly because they don't introduce any plot hooks to make you invested but gives you interest in the match you're playing as the battle. And they already have lore from mythology. Basically, if you're going to start a story you need to at least carry it forward, but the other viable option is to just give you an outline and let the imagination run wild. Overwatch chose option 1, but stagnated.
the 'story mode' was too little too late in terms of lore, felt like something that should've come in during OW1 days while the hype around characters was real (Sombra, Doomfist). It's hard to care when the game has been Fortnite-ified and jam-packed with heroes with all different hinted-at stories
They should have just written Talon as Desperado PMC from Metal Gear. Warmongers that start and fight wars for money as a base for organization, and then give a unique take on each Talon hero's views and goals.
Let’s just take a moment to acknowledge that Kiriko’s OFFICIAL backstory is that she was a childhood friend of Genji and Hanzo, we even see them playing together and we have voice lines confirming this, yet she is canonically 21 while the brothers are 37 and 40 respectively. This means that when Kiriko was born the brothers were 16 and 19 so how tf where they childhood friends? Ofc, they ended up changing it later on but like how do you fuck up that badly
@@TheCam920 Well it kinda makes sense. Genji was a cocky careless Ninja, which led to his brother Hanzo killing him. In the animated short Dragons, that incident happened 10 years ago. Which a 17 year old Genji would probably be cocky, and careless, having ultimate power of the dragons and basically being royal blood. Considering his death, by the time he is 27, he spent 10 years learning from Zenyatta since his death at 17 years old. For why he looks like he’s older than 27, he experienced death before, his suit is the reason why he’s still alive. Hanzo would’ve been 22 when he killed Genji, which Hanzo was disciplined compared to his younger brother Genji. Being 22, which is 5 years older than 17 year old Genji. Genji was never in Overwatch, just in Black Watch till he got his new silver and green suit.
It's either "Wait wdym lore team just said kiriko is a childhood friend of shimada bros? We design her to look like 20!" or "Noooo we don't want her to be older than 25 :'( "
I don't even know how they messed up the age that bad, like OW is in the future their medicine should be good enough that kiriko can look much younger than her real age, just cause she makes an effort to stay healthy and has access to good Healthcare. Isnt mercy older than she looks? Idk why they made her canon age young when it doesn't make sense when they could've made her older but still look like a young adult.
its cause they viewed fortnite as a competition when they really shouldnt. what made overwatch special was its story and characters. the archives had good -ish pve, but if they weren't fully ready to build those mission they should've opted to go an arcane sort of route instead. but they are continually fumbling the bag. its crazy.
I've never witnessed a bigger fumble in my life, dude. How they thought Fortnite of all things was their competition...dude. We had something truly special with OW1. :(
Oh absolutely, not only are they treated porly within the game, like skins and emotes being released later than their launch, but just. I really loved venture as a concept. They're such an endearing and charming character to me, i really wish i could be invested in them more, but there's basically nothing to go for. Like what do they have to do with overwatch? What's their backstory? Why do they like their work sm like even basic stuff we don't know!! And its really getting into my nerves lately.
@@buttercake-3215I absolutely agree. I don’t like Venture at all(abilities are interesting but I’m poor lol) but like what do you offer to the story? Nothing. No connection other than “hey I preserve ancient history from bad guys :D!”. At least Juno has a slight connection and is interesting as a character, but she offers nothing to progress the story as well. I think the story for characters dropped when Lifeweaver came out, cool guy but like what does he do for the story again lol
@@craigwolfe249 that’s because they haven’t used Hanzo at all or the Junkers lol. I mean it just seems weird and all given how every hero is connected to one another so who knows how the Junkers would have turned out, like would they have had a partnership with Overwatch cause Null Sector attacked Australia or what like they’re just there literally minding their own business lol. It’s even weirder cause Kiriko is in Hanazaka minding her own business with her vigilante group. Idk if the characters have more stories from comics btw but just saying that the majority of characters all are in this massive good vs evil story and yet some guys are just completely by themselves.
@@arsenal4739 Venture found Anubis but then that was literally never elaborated or followed up on. Just, you know. Finding the god program that started the whole omnic crisis surely wouldn't have any consequences. No biggie.
What bothers me even more is that they have incredible villains with Doomfist and Rammatra, really good antagonists with interesting characters and motivation. They are just wasted on a team that refuses to do anything story-related. At this point just make an animated show, that would be so much better.
Now all the heroes have bland nice personalities and fight some grunts every animation when they have fucking doomfist, sigma, reaper, sombra and widow on the backburner doing nothing
Literally the story is what got me into overwatch. The idea of all these extremely well-characterized heroes and villains with deep lore and backstories colliding with eachother. It's litterally the avengers but with gorgeous animation. I loved all the different ways the characters tied into eachother and I wanted to see them finally meet. And it seems we will never get that.
I'm gonna throw this out there for anyone who's asking "Why not just enjoy the game without the lore?", unfortunately, a very large potion of the Overwatch's continued development after launch was put into creating the canceled PvE campaign. At first it wasn't noticeable, but eventually things like game balanced and the consistency of updates started to take it's toll. Even the game was a struggle to enjoy. And now we're in the current state of the game, Blizzard killed their golden goose so they could enjoy a roast goose.
Funny you mention that, they said OW1 and OW2 can co-exist but then for some reason they went back on it -- without telling anyone mind you -- and then the rest is history. In short, OW1 was going to be the PVP and OW2 was going to be the PVE, but they knew that PVE wasn't going to be a thing they just said 'fuck it, we're just making OW2 and make people believe the PVE is coming."
bc the devs were being too arrogant thinking they can finish pve on time and also force the entire fanbase to play it rather than make a separate game and imo its stupid coz jeff said ow2 and ow1 will be separate games the pve will be separate the pvp will be free they said nothing about 5v5 they only mentioned they want to make tanks fun in 6v6 and then when jeff left Aaron and Jared go like WE SWITCHING TO 5V5 HOORAY RIGHT WAIT WHY NO ONE IS CHEERING
It's genuinely so fucking sad how we'll never experience anything like overwatch 1 again. The game was actually good, even getting game of the year awards, but now it's just a laughing stock and has been ever since overwatch 2 released. I really just wish they never replaced overwatch 1 with overwatch 2, and instead just focused on making overwatch 2 its own game, a pve, which would've been a continuation of the franchise and a fun game to play for the lore, story-line and even gameplay considering the skill trees and all. But no. Replace an actual good game that had so much heart and soul put into it throughout it's years and just make it a marketing mess. Why not I guess? The game isn't even fun anymore, all the magic that was in overwatch 1 just isn't here. I still don't understand why 5v5 over 6v6 is an argument people make either. I'd rather go against 2 tanks than one unkillable mess that outdamages the damage characters anyway. I could go on about this for ages but the point is there.
Aaron Keller had a fairly recent blog post saying they went to 5v5 for two main reasons: 1) Queue Times When they switched to role queue to stop GOATs, queue times drastically increased with DPS usually waiting 6 minutes for a game. Removing a tank cut the queue times in half for the other two roles. 2) Bad Optimization Since they decided to do a big engine update with improved graphics for OW2, they had a lot of difficulty getting the game to run on the weaker consoles it supports like the Switch. A sixth player would exacerbate the issue. Notice neither of the reasons mentioned were gameplay related.
@@Zhohan- 1) Tank queues were the shortest to begin with. The only reason queues were long is because the game WAS RECEIVING UPDATES EVERY 6 MONTHS. It was dead, they were too busy working on overwatch 2 to care. 2) You can still go 6v6 in custom games, so there's literally no excuse. 6v6 with workshop involved at that. The game runs just fine. They're making shit up to try and justify their poor decisions lol.
@@Zhohan- something funny was that one of the developers said that queue times being shorter without a second tank was a "happy accident"... i swear i wanted to break something then and there because WHY are you gonna change something that worked for years?
Ngl, til this day I’m pissed that my own physical copy of overwatch turned into overwatch 2. It just seems shitty. The first game was really good it didn’t need to be overwritten with the second game!
Well, in defense of Juno’s cinematic, I’d say it has some rewatchability if you saw the comic first then the cinematic. The reason why Mei’s cinematic is better is because it had a proper beginning, while Juno’s cinematic was separated into a comic that no one would read.
Plus Mei was a character we knew, knew something was up, and then shown and told. We saw how her life changed for the worse then better... We saw Bastion, nobody cared that much for Bastion... then everyone supported his corner shooting. Then comic happened where Torb puts aside his agenda and adopts him. Juno, even with knowledge of the comic, has nothing. Her story is zilch, not an existing thing, it's kick rock and Earth. It is the definition of pointlessness, and with Ram, Sojourn and Mauga now here, this is the norm now.
oh yea not only that the cinematics were the best bc they put all their love and soul into it and it gave us tears bc it had so many emotional moments which was the best especially Dragons that cinematic made me go and play overwatch it looked like disney animation studio made it and it was emotional and great even soujorns that made me hyped for the story of how ow gonna defeat null sector BUT SADLY THAT AINT EVER GONNA COME BACK COZ BLIZZ REFUSES TO GIVE US MORE LORE, STORY, AND CINEMATICS TO MAKE US LOVE THE GAME EVEN MORE and instead they are putting all their effort to forcing 5v5 on us and make us forget 6v6 they are trying to go onto us and say 5v5 is better 6v6 is bad dont play it and they love to buff supps and tanks to infinite health while dps get 100% nerfs and it sucks I dont want this I asked for lore, cinematics, and story
This is true. Juno's comic is really GOOD. But the video has a major point that there's basically no development on any actual future story. Overwatch, as a story, doesn't need any more characters. They need to actually do something. Anything.
The Overwatch plot never made sense in game : They release so many cinematics to build up the fact that OW was dismantle long ago but must get back toghether so Winston made the call. And yet, when you finally get your hands on the game, you quickly realise that, these characters you're playing as, are not in their "Post--Call" version but more like what they look like/Last seen appearence when OW got dismantle. We had to wait OW2 to finally get the post-call version and the cinematic were they actually reunite. I'm sure they had good intention with the plot but my god. When you oversell those legendary heroes getting back toghether but you fumble this hard, it's safe to say the OW "plot" was lost a long time ago or was only meant to be a badass backstory to sell some cool world building and characters and nothing more. Yeah. Backstories. That's all Overwatch ever was at this point.
I don't know much about Overwatch lore, I only know that there is an official Reaper novel/book (idk) in which they made a continuity error so big that it implied either: A-Retconning almost the entire history of the character. B-Reaper was a police officer at the age of 5/8 years old. Amazing.
honestly they have a huge problem with all the aging of the characters in overwatch 2, due to all the old lore they released several of the characters should be much older than they are (in their late 20's to early 30's) but instead are in their early 20s. kiri should be older than they say she is, reaper should be older, phara should be younger. Overwatch has a huge problem with needing to retcon a lot of their character information that got ruined when overwatch 2 came out
@@battlepho I think the biggest problem was saying the ages of the characters, some stories avoid doing this to avoid these inconsistencies in the future and limit themselves to letting people interpret the ages, but I don't know why, Overwatch insists on giving exact ages and in the end they have to retcon several things or add lore to justify errors that they hadn't thought of at the beginning.
@@battlepho Yeah. It feels like they want all the characters to be young so they can market the game more with handsome or pretty characters but in the process make it difficult to add years of backstory so they have continuity errors.
@@jvl5379 but in the game she shouldn't even be a teenager, her story was that she trained along side genji and hanzo who are both in their 30's. even if genji and hanzo were like 14 while they were training (which they looked younger than) kiriko should at least be like 25 years old. idk how overwatch is fumbling their own lore so badly to try to make her seem like a teenager
I loved the cinematics so much, I have gotten people into the game just through them, I even showed my mom those cinematics - just because they were great. They stood alone. You didn't need to know anything for them, they had their little stories, anyone outside of the overwatch community could enjoy them. Lets be real, those cinematics were the main reason people wanted an OW2 - wanted a PVE game - because they saw the story in those and wanted to play that very story. I miss the times a new cinematic dropped and i just had to drop everything and watch it.
I hate that I've had to turn to fanfiction to finish some of these incredible stories. I want to see Hanzo and Widowmaker's individual stories develop. I want to see what the whole point of overwatch coming together is. I wasn't able to play overwatch 1 back in the day because of the cost but I poured over lore and videos and any scrap I could get. I've been playing 2 kind of obsessively since it came to steam, and I enjoy it, but It's also likely because I'm new to the gameplay. The lack of story progression really does sadden me.
I can imagine that for someone who is completely new, OW2 works pretty well. But for us, who we have known OW since its release, it is just unfortunate to see how this game lost its soul.
Do people even right fanfiction for overwatch anymore? It used to be super active back in like 2017-2018 but the last time I looked, it was like most of those stories hadn’t been updated since then lol
Yeah sorry, you missed out. The original game was far superior. Launch day was amazing, but update after update it only got worse. More boring. Eventually it didn’t feel like they were Heroes anymore, just futuristic soldiers with “balanced” abilities…
Too bad blizzard hates Rein so much. At this point, they're just giving him skins and gave him that cinematic to make up for the fact they won't make him feel like a tank again lol
It’s sad that I got into overwatch all late and without knowing the bad things they’ve been doing, I’ve been loving the Ashe character so much and have had fun alone :(
To be fair he did some stupid shit too like making Soldier 76 gay in order to draw buzz away from the Blitzchung controversy, or renaming McCree with this totally cool new name that didn't exist before the breast milk thing. Story was pozzed long before 2020, and the story was already on life support around the time Hamtaro or Ligma got put onto the roster. 2018 was the last year they had put out animated shorts, which was what most people were looking forward to.
Archives could be such a smart way to move the story, doing what they LOVE now, selling skins. Make skins that are canon, like the Soldier 24 for Reaper, the talon skins, the overwatch skins for mercy, tracer, rein, torb. Just keep doing this, AND BRING THE OLD GAME MODES BACK! Yes, we played the heck out of them, and we want more, but we're not getting more anyways, just keep the old ones there for the new players to enjoy too. I am genuinely so sad that I can't play these old game modes with my new friends that only played OW2, all because of a false promise of a PVE that will never come to life.
You nailed it. OW used to be mine and my sister's favorite game to play together. Hundreds of hours, playing just for the sheer fun of it, because we loved the characters and their story so much. Once we saw OW2 was going F2P and introducing their own garbage battle pass, we honestly gave up and dropped everything. OW is a shell of its former self, with no soul, no heart, just a garbage cash grab. Say what one will about Fortnite, but that game is still supported to this day, and is about to have another large live event, and Fortnite's BP has infinitely more value than all of OW2 combined. That is frustrating and sad.
I remember the time when I first started watching these back when the Zero Hour one dropped and they were so good that not only did they get me back in the game, but I actually got interested in the lore for a while. But since Ow2, I only just started playing again not cause of the cinematics some I didn't even know came out, but just by pure coincidence.
what story lol? overwatch 2 developers never tried to do anything, the only pack of missions relased were made by overwatch 1 developers, the rio mission had a demo playable in 2019 and they show a lot of the other two missions. the things we saw later were going to be the zenyatta mission vs talon but overwatch 2 developers couldnt even finish a single fucking mission
It is a sad state of affairs when Fighting games like Mortal Kombat have better story progression than Overwatch. Seriously Fighting games have more character and plot than a story driven hero shooter with cinematics, shorts, comics etc.
With the massive success of arcane and cyberpunk edge runners you can see how blizzard really fumbled the bag with the potential overwatch cinematics could have become.
And it's still wild to me that we've barely got any lore/background on Ramattra, probably my favorite OW2 character, since he came out. All we've really gotten is that he was once a student of Mondatta and is the leader of Null Sector.
Overwatch cinematics were literally the only reason i wanted to play the game but i couldn't because i didn't have the money at the time. Now the soul is gone...
Every single person I know who played overwatch including me, have started the game because we saw the cinematics. I HATE how game companies keep denying the fact that their games have the success it has mainly because of the artists who create the hype and the passion. If it weren’t for dragons nothing would make me play a fps game, I dont like the genre but hearing the voice actors seeing the art watching the cinematics it made me wanna play, i was hyped asf. Just look how arcane resurrected league and its community.
Overwatch (2) is just a widespread case study on Stockholm syndrome. Once they cancelled the PvE, I quit the game, it lost its reason for existence. The only reason people play it is for nostalgia
I actually got into overwatch because of these cinematics. It was on my for you page and I watched the cinematics and FELL IN LOVE!! after that I wanted the game so badly!
On one hand, the story has to stagnate. The war has to continue, or else they would have little excuse to introduce new heroes to help fight. On the other, what new enemy are they fighting? If it is the omnics, so be it. But yea seeing that in a cinematic would be cool
This isnt a doompost I swear. The piece of the puzzle you're missing here is that WHOEVER is calling the shots no longer gives a fuck about overwatch's(and blizzard's in general quite frankly) public perception. If youre old enough to remember blizzard's early games at the time they used to be the golden child. Their quality of cinematic and games in general were kind of a mirror to square enix at the time, massive work for not as much return just to be the household name(and maybe a bit of ego flexing). It worked, blizzard cemented themselves as the cool guys and theyve been riding it since. Pretty sure the people who set it on that path are long gone, and the people left are just riding the train with no destination, not realizing why most people have long since left. Or maybe they just realize their reputation is so bad that nobody cares anymore. Im sure the shareholders are filled with confidence at their competence regardless of the topic or subject as long as money is the end result. Swear its not a doompost, just putting this frame of reference out there. Its likely never returning
I think blizzard is going to be closer to the chopping block than any of us are expecting. Ow dies, WOW's updates stop bringing in sustainable player numbers. What now? Nothing they release will have the soul if their current ips, nor the quality. They're a ubisoft timebomb in disguise. The second this new blizzard has to make smth on it's own, people will get it.
The only thing that's keeping me playing Overwatch, the one thing that made me come back after months of leaving it, was Venture, and Venture didn't even get a cinematic, and the only animation they did get was 40 seconds long, they don't even get any skins, I could leave Overwatch and lose absolutely nothing because Venture's fanbase cares more than Blizzard and I can get approximately 2000% more content of them through that than I can through Overwatch, I'm so sick of it, and now they've decided that the best choice for a gamemode is just "Hey guys remember Overwatch 1???"
A personal peeve of mine, in the hero gallery, some hero's like kiriko and junkerqueen, you can watch their cinematics in game. but I think there's only like 3 hero's that have that. i can maybe understand not doing cinematics that heavily feature multiple characters like the dragons cinematic. but even Juno's trailer that has only her isn't featured in the hero gallery (last time i checked). it's just weird and inconsistent.
Overwatch was so much to me back in the OW1 days. Beyond the game itself, the story and the characters kept me engrossed and entertained when I needed it most. I loved speculating about the lore and about what would come next--- sigh. It's really a shame how things turned out. Could've been really cool.
My favourite cinematics has to be Dragons, the Reinhardt one and the absolute masterpiece that is the Doomfist trailer, THAT is an Overwatch animation.
I mean lets not lie to ourselves. Overwatch has never had a good "plot", it had interesting looking characters fighting a generic bad guy group. They always try to insert themes of discrimination here or persevering through tough time but never a good story. If anyone doesn't believe me just ask yourself why did the omnics rise up against humanity. Because of discrimination? Well we see over and over again that basically every omnic but ramatra is living peacefully. Why does talon do bad things? Because generic bad guy ceo payed them? Is that really a good plot? When basically none of the idea introduced have been explored or given any reason to exist outside of bad guy does bad thing, then its not a good story, its just a setting to give excuses for these characters to fight, and thats exactly what we have and all we will ever get out of this game. Dont expect more from blizzard.
The fact that Blizzard could go the route of Arcane but just doesn’t, is infuriating Also calling TheLineAnimation studio third rate is crazy, they’ve made stunning work for Riot and others
Honestly, as much as I love Arcane, that IP is lightning in a bottle. Very few animated productions get the amount of time, funding, and creative control as Arcane did. Knowing ActiBlizz, they would either underfund the project or have executives hijack creative control from the producers.
its actually so sad blizzard scrapped their "arcane style show" by Netflix bc they poached some employees that would've been all we wanted if we couldn't have pve
the only ow2 cinematic I regularly rewatch is mauga's "great day". I love watching this guy charging through those omnics and causing pure chaos on the ship, and I was like 'oh man I can't wait until he comes out to the game so I can also charge through enemies, crush them with the stomp, and *finish* them with miniguns, and then he comes out and I can't even charge because his "identity" is to stand still in the choke and press m1+m2 for the entire match...
I've been a fan since before I even hit my teens purely because of the cinematics. I never played games other than pokemon really but I remember stumbling upon an overwatch cinematic on TH-cam and I loved it so much I became a hard-core fan! I never actually realised it was a game and only managed to play it for the first time when overwatch 2 came out but those cinematics probably in some way effected who I've become today. I so badly hope that they start creating more true stories so that eventually we have a game with some backbone other than just gameplay (and it would be cool if every character had a cinematic but that might be a bit much to hope for right now).
I used to be so hyped up about the overwatch lore expanding and seeing new cinematics, now its just advertising on colabs amd bundles and millions of skins for kiriko
Activision should realize there are people playing the game who have no interest in buying new skins and cosmetics or people that don't even have money and just want to enjoy the game.
@@ashtonsmokey1363 I hate to tell you, but they don't consider someone who spends $40, or hell, even hundreds of dollars a whale. A whale in these games spends literally THOUSANDS of dollars and those are the types the business suits are trying to catch. Someone who will buy every piece of slop skin or voice line or spray that they'll put out.
The problem is Blizzard bled out most of its talent following all of the controversies+loosing that prestige, so no new people aren't get in either. It shows in all of their games, non of them got that classic blizzard sheen. It shows that talent doesn't lie in companies, but in the people who work there.
I dont even think it's a matter of what's profitable because cinematics progressing the lore create a lot of hype for the game and draw attention to it, attracting more players and thus profits.
ow2 story is the biggest nothing burger ever, it’s like if they want to make a story without making a story. in short *the* *story* *can* *fit* *in* *one* *paper*
The problem also comes from the new characters arent ex OW/Talon/etc operatives, rather some randos connected to 1 maybe 2 vanilia chars. LW,Juno? Who cares Illari,Venture? No one knew about them even in the cast Only Mauga is getting a pass cuz hes been teased since 2018
Man the Compellation gave me chills and goose bumps, i miss peak Overwatch... Also 14:10 is like me, im a league player i got into ow at 2018 becuz of the cinematics and stuff, and yes it was my first ever FPS on pc
Kiriko's cinematic was beautiful. That's the least time this game brought tears to my eyes for any positive reason. The soul is gone. I never dropped a game so fast. Countless hours since launch, and I dropped it after a single day of OW2. I occasionally play a couple hours a season. Never spend a penny.
"Does this mean Overwatch is back?" *"No, but we can give you a awful and grindy downgrade stripped of all the story and most of the fun with prices to make a bank broke with Jeff gone."*
I find it criminal the Ramattra has 0 cinematics when he is essentially one of the big bads for the game.
We’re talking about Blizzard here, they gave Sigma the most interesting backstory then never elaborated on it EVER again
Based commenters, Ramattra and Sigma were my favorite characters.
@@CelestialRedPanda Sigma is probably the strongest character in the verse, and all that was said about him after cinematic is "uhhh he`s gaslit to work for Talon or some shit idk" without even showing what he does, the guy likely can solo any faction but haven`t been used for straight anything, biggest wasted potential imo
Most of the characters are wasted. Not just ram. Think about how good some of these others would be in a cinematic. It's such a waste considering how good some of their stories are from what we know.
They have the money so there's definitely no real excuse lol
@@retey8982they gave a character control over GRAVITY and then… he just exists? Like we don’t even know what he DOES at talon. Until then my cannon is he files taxes otherwise overwatch would lose to talon lol
I want Overwatch’s story to come back so badly…
I mean this is best part of ow
it is the best part of what made overwatch great and even goty
Ow2 is different they took out all of the good parts and all of the most fun stuff and made it into an unhappy environment for casuals to get bullied by high ranks with unbalanced shit, no fun at all, and sad part Battle passes and skins that cost 50$ instead of making an animated cinematic trailer or series which will give the company tons of money instead of making the game unfun
Captain obvious
It dindt go anywhere
Now, only the hub still have animation stories
Unfortunately, Michael Chu who was the senior designer for lore and story in Overwatch left Blizzard in 2020 with a lot of the other high profile Blizzard devs back then so thats a major reason why the Story has been very inconsistent lately. I mean we all know about the Kiriko age discrephancy from a while back.
Kiriko has a very simple explanation: The Japanese just age a lot slower
The Kiriko age discrepancy isnt even the first time that happened. Mercy’s age was anywhere from 20-50 without her aging at all in that time span.
@@razrv3lc Don't forget the debacle with the Cassidy, Deadlock, and Blackwatch discrepancies
Why not just NOT give heroes ages. Look at Arcane. I have no clue what the age of Jinx, Jayce or Viktor is but the story is still crazy good.
@@razrv3lcwell that has a genuine reason, apparently she ages slower due to her tech.
The fact that Venture literally found Anubis and then it was never brought up again.
Cyno the cooler anubis
they always knew where anubis was, it was stated that anubis is defended by helix security
Who tf is Anubis?
@@James-9999 The God AI responsible for the First Omnic Crisis. He was the top antagonist of the war.
Anubis is practically the Ultron of Overwatch and has great potential to actually be the ultimate big bad of the entire story since every side would be his enemy: He'll take over Null Sector and force Ramattra to heel and he also seeks humanity death so Overwatch and Talon would be both his foes, as well as the entirety of Earth in general
And yet we never heard from him again after Venture found him
It's a heartbreak to realize we're never getting Overwatch back. It's a shame what they've done to the player base and it's own employees since 2018. I would rather fight smurfs that purchase thousands of accounts than see Blizzard consistently charge for battlepasses and skins that used to be free rewards for playing the game. If a miracle happens and they pull it back together to make Overwatch 3, I will answer the call. Always.
we NEEED a ramatra cinematic, he is the best written character that i have seen come out of over watch 2. his lore with zen, his conflicts god i just want another PROPER ramatra cinematic, too bad its probably going to be locked behind the pve.
th-cam.com/video/UyyJnJpO_-k/w-d-xo.htmlsi=F0fCGHbSD8CwLYao
There is, but pve cutscene
Bro, what pve? 🥲
i do love ram but there’s just potential with him, not even that much of lore and investment from blizzard. if you want, he’s just a concept, while he could be and SHOULD be so much more. look at how nice the interaction he has with zen in the "pve" was. it’s nice but needs more development, i agree with you btw if it wasn’t clear
i believe the EXACT same thing for doomfist, he’s such a key character and yet he has nothing for him lore wise
I'd rather they didn't make a cinematic if what we're going to get is what we've been getting. Let him remain as unresolved potential rather than a mid execution.
I’d rather they do Sigma. He’s the most watched origin story for a reason
To be honest after Jeff Kaplan left overwatch everything went downhill now they’re focusing on cosmetic for the weapons and skin more than the story
to be fair… everything went downhill WITH jeff kaplan the game was absolutely DEAD
@@mumble1836 the game was absolutely alive with Jeff was still around, it was slowly going downhill because of allegations and the layoffs.
@@Bardock059 so it had nothing to do with the fact they refused to make any major balance changes to their game? that the gameplay loop was stale and infuriating? I had been playing since launch and hands down ow is a lot more alive now than it was in the last couple years of its initial lifespan
it is almost like he knew this shit is going downhill and wanting nothing to to with it anymore :(
@@mumble1836 nah gameplay wise it was mess BUT LORE WISE IT WAS PERFECT
Dragons is peak animation. It took 7 minutes for millions of people to fall in love with not one, but 2 characters and is solely responsible for all the games I lost when a Genji spammed I need healing while 500 meters away from his team. Truly an Overwatch experience.
I'm just sad that Mercy never got her own cinematic. In fact, none of the original healers got any cinematics, and Mercy is THE healer of Overwatch. She and Symmetra had the best potential back stories to tell. How did Mercy develop the valkyrie suit? Did Symmetra willingly replace her arm for cybernetics to be able to create hard light?
As a Mercy main, this hurts 😢
Some of the short stories should have been made into full cinematics. The entire new OW2 short story collection is just scapped PvE scripts.
I know that here will be a lot of mercy mains, so as a junk main i wanna apologize for all the solo tires, love yall
I feel as though mercy would've been weird to make a whole cinematic around. Her given background was (and still is) vivid. She's a doctor. It wouldn't make for a very interesting cinematic.
Symmetra had some story told throughout the comics they used to do pretty often.
Symmetra got a comic which was really good
I was waiting for an Overwatch campaign for TEN YEARS. I was so excited when the OW2 trailer first dropped, and they announced they were FINALLY giving EVERYONE what they wanted.
I even defended OW2 on release, because yes, it is basically the same game, but I explained to everyone that *this* isn’t the new game. The PvE is the actual reason they’re making Overwatch 2.
And then they scrapped it. They just scrapped all that they were setting up for the past TEN YEARS.
I have never felt so betrayed by a company in my life, and I just stopped playing the game completely.
What I’m trying to say is, the dropoff of Overwatch might be the biggest fumble in videogame history.
gang are you in 2026
@@Zahtarifirst trailer was in 2014, 10 years would be right.
Imagine being concord and you made some of the cinematics already that will or probably never be watched
i feel you, i haven’t waited that much bc i knew OW thanks to the dragons cinematic back in the day, but since then I craved for the story mode. remember the archives missions ? it felt so close and I would just hope the PvE would drop only to just move on past that and heyyyyy players don’t worry here’s your new battlepass and a moira / diablo immortal reference ! and players seem to even have moved on, it saddens me. seeing players claiming that the game is a PvP anyway and complain about comp was just… remember why you were even playing again after waiting 2 years man. it is the biggest waste of potential and one of the biggest middle finger from a video game company to me.
"I even defended OW2 on release", ClownCringe, 2024. Hopefully your town publicly mocked you for the shill you are after that.
it has been death since Kiriko , who apparently grew up together with Hanzo and Genji but is only half their age.
When she would older her skins not selling well.
Blizzard need cute young girls to sell better skins
I’ve always said that Overwatch as a brand was absolutely fumbled. They should have been making books, tv shows, comics, movies, other games, etc. Overwatch was the biggest game in the world for a time. This was before Fortnite. For a company as greedy as Blizzard to not try to make Overwatch the next big thing was an absolute L. Look at Arcane and how that made League of legends so popular. Same thing with Cyberpunk Edgerunners, Last of us and even the Witcher show. Overwatch managed to do a very hard thing and that was create a while cast of new characters that people were invested in. We wanted to know how they became who they were, what they were doing now and what would happen next. Blizzard failed in so many ways but the story and characters of Overwatch deserved better.
they got too comfortable with the money they were making and didnt brance out
look at riot they toke risk
legend of runeterra
leageu of legend fighting game
a fucking whole series (arcane)
and many small indie games of the lol universe
all those things expanded their lore big time
Didn't help when Activision took over and they steered the game more towards the CoD fanbase. That's what really started killing the brand.
Imagine being as greedy but also lazy as Blizzard. Wanting to squeeze all the money they can out of their players but doing the bare minimum in trying to do so
They did make books and comics, they've been making them for years now.
I firmly believe OWL was the thing that made the story get the short end of the stick. After the first year of ow they focused entirely on OWL and nothing new came out since then. The same revamps of the same old events with minimal changes, the same 3 maps and 3 heroes per year, and slow decline of balance is all that has been happening since year 2. Nothing on a proper story besides rare cinematics that don't actually move the main plot...
I've been the one to chant "give us a pve campaign" all the way back then... needless to say, getting excited about ow2 promises backstabbed me hard.
Blizzard is no longer supporting Overwatch 2 as a mainline title its kind of a side thing that they just keep alive barely
Honestly, the whole thing needs a reboot. There is absolutely no conception of what the plot even is, at its best it's a bunch of characters who were doing cool stuff a decade ago. Start again with a small group of classic characters and an inciting incident. Something is happening, Winston detects it and has to convince his old team to join him, but they all have lives now and are conflicted.
the ow characters really peaked in high school huh
I'd rather have my ow1 back, instead of this ow2 cash grab.
oh yeah overwatch 3
Overwatch 3 👀
Luckily they have a time related hero. They can have Tracer time slip into the past and start changing the narrative stopping Blackwatch operation and the consequences that come from that change. I think we can continue the story but they need to actually do something with it. They can have multiple arcs and stories at the same time but they need to actually put in work
It died away soon after Sigma... I miss the days when Blizzard would entertain fans with minor hints that would spark wild fan theories and the discovery of Easter eggs hidden across various maps.
Overwatch 2 New heroes will never get the same hype that Doomfist did.
same lol i will miss it
instead we get OW2 new skins and shills are gonna go crazy over the skin bundles
while we fans are just waiting for content coz skins are just a fcking lame excuse for content
Right? The Sombra arg was intense lol. Moira’s reveal was amazing. Sigma’s intro was amazing. New heroes now just get plopped in without any fanfare. Venture doesn’t even have a legendary skin over 6 months after being added lmao
@@razrv3lc Even the new maps lack soul; I can't even remember their names; people hated the gamemode, but the 2CP maps were some of the most fun and unique maps.
@@nex5691 not even new skins most of the time 😭😭😭 recolours upon recolours... and reruns too which im not against but TT
@@AridBloom1 they're 3/3 on bad gamemodes in ow2.
I didn't even mind 2cp personally. It could've used some adjustments to the functionality and maps but that's about it.
The new gamemodes they've added in ow2 are just all bad and unfun to play. I genuinely just want to leave the game if its one of the modes (because they all take over 10 fucking minutes to play IN A QUICK PLAY GAME) but they made the penalties so strict lmao.
i hate that this so true. I love overwatch so much its so sad to see it be like this
Not going to lie it would be better if they made a animated series with a streaming service. Like what they did with League of Legands
I’ve been saying this. They cannot balance it to save their lives as a game but they’ve made Pixar level magic with animations. They’re focusing on something theyre mediocre at rather than focusing on something theyre great at.
they won’t, too risky. the Warcraft movie didn’t work in theaters and since then, they haven’t tried again to make a project in a similar scale for a bigger audience. i just hope that after arcane and cyberpunk edgerunners impact, or even the upcoming genshin impact anime, that blizzard will take the opportunity. but we would need actual quality, the mauga / doomfist cinematics aren’t the standard they should be based on
@@masekyn5480Yeah it needs to be the Pixar level shorts that we got in the past. Also, I think it’s more realistic to get a movie than a show.
@@masekyn5480 i do agree with what you're saying but imo blizzard definitely has the budget/money to fund an entire movie or show with the same quality from the 3d overwatch cinematics to make that risk, although i absolutely dont doubt it will be very expensive. if anything, they could just air said movie/show on a streaming service instead of theaters like arcane has done with netflix
They already cheeped out with that short series I wouldn’t hold out any hopes
The lore folks were fired
So yeah, the plot walked out the door
Rather literally, yeah.
wym they werent getting anythign done while they were employed either
Everyone acts like the team stayed the same and just changed direction, rather than the entire team changing. None of the people left on it were the ones that made OW1. They’re pretty much playing with a corpse right now. They don’t know what to do with it because they didn’t make it.
Honestly feel bad for all the VAs, the ones I met at cons were all excited for a proper story mode, a show, movie or anything.
And I think at the times I met some of them the original plan for OW2 story mode may have been being recorded. Cause how they spoke to some of us about a potential campaign could see a sparkle in their eyes.
But now it’s just been canned cause greedy ceos, investors and more.
It feels like every time a hero joins, cinematic will just be about how they end up joining. Overwatch, Talon and Null Sector and any other organisations or movements they randomly throw in will just be suspended in the moment before action as all the heroes join.
The conflict in general is super uninteresting. Null Sector are really bland and Ramm can't carry it. Talon strives for...chaos? Give us some reason why they're doing what they're doing. Give Doom some depth.
Also it doesn't feel like a "second omnic crisis" is happening. Is Null Sector even a big group that governments couldn't handle? Why are there never any soldiers fighting Null Sector? All the foot soldiers just seem like mindless robots, not revolutionaries like Ramm. Which is why he can't carry the storyline. The more I say it, the name Null Sector sucks, but it's fitting for my opinions about it's value.
Also, on my first point, the game Smite actually had a similar set-up as every time a new God was introduced to the game, they'd just say "Blank couldn't stay idle any longer and has joined the battle of the Gods" which actually works perfectly because they don't introduce any plot hooks to make you invested but gives you interest in the match you're playing as the battle. And they already have lore from mythology. Basically, if you're going to start a story you need to at least carry it forward, but the other viable option is to just give you an outline and let the imagination run wild. Overwatch chose option 1, but stagnated.
the 'story mode' was too little too late in terms of lore, felt like something that should've come in during OW1 days while the hype around characters was real (Sombra, Doomfist). It's hard to care when the game has been Fortnite-ified and jam-packed with heroes with all different hinted-at stories
false, ram hard carries it
@@hex3132not to mention the fact the PvE update was packaged in a $15 DLC so no one would care enough to buy it
They should have just written Talon as Desperado PMC from Metal Gear. Warmongers that start and fight wars for money as a base for organization, and then give a unique take on each Talon hero's views and goals.
Let’s just take a moment to acknowledge that Kiriko’s OFFICIAL backstory is that she was a childhood friend of Genji and Hanzo, we even see them playing together and we have voice lines confirming this, yet she is canonically 21 while the brothers are 37 and 40 respectively. This means that when Kiriko was born the brothers were 16 and 19 so how tf where they childhood friends? Ofc, they ended up changing it later on but like how do you fuck up that badly
Ehh, Genji seems he could be 27, while Hanzo being 32 seems more so.
Genji at 37 is crazy, Hanzo sound old but being 40 sheesh.
@@kindplanet1 Genji has figured out way too much for a 27 year old
@@TheCam920
Well it kinda makes sense.
Genji was a cocky careless Ninja, which led to his brother Hanzo killing him. In the animated short Dragons, that incident happened 10 years ago.
Which a 17 year old Genji would probably be cocky, and careless, having ultimate power of the dragons and basically being royal blood.
Considering his death, by the time he is 27, he spent 10 years learning from Zenyatta since his death at 17 years old. For why he looks like he’s older than 27, he experienced death before, his suit is the reason why he’s still alive.
Hanzo would’ve been 22 when he killed Genji, which Hanzo was disciplined compared to his younger brother Genji. Being 22, which is 5 years older than 17 year old Genji. Genji was never in Overwatch, just in Black Watch till he got his new silver and green suit.
It's either "Wait wdym lore team just said kiriko is a childhood friend of shimada bros? We design her to look like 20!" or "Noooo we don't want her to be older than 25 :'( "
I don't even know how they messed up the age that bad, like OW is in the future their medicine should be good enough that kiriko can look much younger than her real age, just cause she makes an effort to stay healthy and has access to good Healthcare. Isnt mercy older than she looks? Idk why they made her canon age young when it doesn't make sense when they could've made her older but still look like a young adult.
The fact there’s no Ramattra cinematic is damning
You’re totally right like he is basically the big bad of the story and we didn’t get a cinematic
#JusticeForRamattra
@@jello_are3372Ramattra is not the big bad, lol
@@hogndog2339 who is it then, hogn dog 2339
@@hogndog2339 who is it then hogn dog 2339
its cause they viewed fortnite as a competition when they really shouldnt. what made overwatch special was its story and characters. the archives had good -ish pve, but if they weren't fully ready to build those mission they should've opted to go an arcane sort of route instead. but they are continually fumbling the bag. its crazy.
I've never witnessed a bigger fumble in my life, dude. How they thought Fortnite of all things was their competition...dude. We had something truly special with OW1. :(
Venture and Juno are such interesting characters but its like the team didn't even know what to do with them
Oh absolutely, not only are they treated porly within the game, like skins and emotes being released later than their launch, but just. I really loved venture as a concept. They're such an endearing and charming character to me, i really wish i could be invested in them more, but there's basically nothing to go for. Like what do they have to do with overwatch? What's their backstory? Why do they like their work sm like even basic stuff we don't know!! And its really getting into my nerves lately.
@@buttercake-3215I absolutely agree. I don’t like Venture at all(abilities are interesting but I’m poor lol) but like what do you offer to the story? Nothing. No connection other than “hey I preserve ancient history from bad guys :D!”. At least Juno has a slight connection and is interesting as a character, but she offers nothing to progress the story as well. I think the story for characters dropped when Lifeweaver came out, cool guy but like what does he do for the story again lol
@@arsenal4739not all the heros have to be linked to the main story, junk isn't, Hammond, hanzo isn't either.
@@craigwolfe249 that’s because they haven’t used Hanzo at all or the Junkers lol. I mean it just seems weird and all given how every hero is connected to one another so who knows how the Junkers would have turned out, like would they have had a partnership with Overwatch cause Null Sector attacked Australia or what like they’re just there literally minding their own business lol. It’s even weirder cause Kiriko is in Hanazaka minding her own business with her vigilante group. Idk if the characters have more stories from comics btw but just saying that the majority of characters all are in this massive good vs evil story and yet some guys are just completely by themselves.
@@arsenal4739 Venture found Anubis but then that was literally never elaborated or followed up on. Just, you know. Finding the god program that started the whole omnic crisis surely wouldn't have any consequences. No biggie.
What bothers me even more is that they have incredible villains with Doomfist and Rammatra, really good antagonists with interesting characters and motivation. They are just wasted on a team that refuses to do anything story-related.
At this point just make an animated show, that would be so much better.
Now all the heroes have bland nice personalities and fight some grunts every animation when they have fucking doomfist, sigma, reaper, sombra and widow on the backburner doing nothing
@@Eldudiograndemauga as well
Literally the story is what got me into overwatch. The idea of all these extremely well-characterized heroes and villains with deep lore and backstories colliding with eachother. It's litterally the avengers but with gorgeous animation. I loved all the different ways the characters tied into eachother and I wanted to see them finally meet. And it seems we will never get that.
The original OW trailers and character videos are a legimate a 1-2 hour movie that can rival Pixar.
I'm gonna throw this out there for anyone who's asking "Why not just enjoy the game without the lore?", unfortunately, a very large potion of the Overwatch's continued development after launch was put into creating the canceled PvE campaign. At first it wasn't noticeable, but eventually things like game balanced and the consistency of updates started to take it's toll. Even the game was a struggle to enjoy.
And now we're in the current state of the game, Blizzard killed their golden goose so they could enjoy a roast goose.
Man why couldn’t they make ow1 and ow2 separate games? is it that hard
If they did no one would play ow2
@@Zack-sp6cx lol
Funny you mention that, they said OW1 and OW2 can co-exist but then for some reason they went back on it -- without telling anyone mind you -- and then the rest is history.
In short, OW1 was going to be the PVP and OW2 was going to be the PVE, but they knew that PVE wasn't going to be a thing they just said 'fuck it, we're just making OW2 and make people believe the PVE is coming."
@@Zack-sp6cxPeople would if it had more story and SKILL TREES
bc the devs were being too arrogant thinking they can finish pve on time and also force the entire fanbase to play it rather than make a separate game
and imo its stupid coz jeff said ow2 and ow1 will be separate games
the pve will be separate the pvp will be free
they said nothing about 5v5 they only mentioned they want to make tanks fun in 6v6
and then when jeff left Aaron and Jared go like WE SWITCHING TO 5V5 HOORAY RIGHT WAIT WHY NO ONE IS CHEERING
It's genuinely so fucking sad how we'll never experience anything like overwatch 1 again. The game was actually good, even getting game of the year awards, but now it's just a laughing stock and has been ever since overwatch 2 released.
I really just wish they never replaced overwatch 1 with overwatch 2, and instead just focused on making overwatch 2 its own game, a pve, which would've been a continuation of the franchise and a fun game to play for the lore, story-line and even gameplay considering the skill trees and all.
But no. Replace an actual good game that had so much heart and soul put into it throughout it's years and just make it a marketing mess. Why not I guess?
The game isn't even fun anymore, all the magic that was in overwatch 1 just isn't here. I still don't understand why 5v5 over 6v6 is an argument people make either. I'd rather go against 2 tanks than one unkillable mess that outdamages the damage characters anyway.
I could go on about this for ages but the point is there.
Aaron Keller had a fairly recent blog post saying they went to 5v5 for two main reasons:
1) Queue Times
When they switched to role queue to stop GOATs, queue times drastically increased with DPS usually waiting 6 minutes for a game. Removing a tank cut the queue times in half for the other two roles.
2) Bad Optimization
Since they decided to do a big engine update with improved graphics for OW2, they had a lot of difficulty getting the game to run on the weaker consoles it supports like the Switch. A sixth player would exacerbate the issue.
Notice neither of the reasons mentioned were gameplay related.
@@Zhohan-
1) Tank queues were the shortest to begin with. The only reason queues were long is because the game WAS RECEIVING UPDATES EVERY 6 MONTHS. It was dead, they were too busy working on overwatch 2 to care.
2) You can still go 6v6 in custom games, so there's literally no excuse. 6v6 with workshop involved at that. The game runs just fine.
They're making shit up to try and justify their poor decisions lol.
Deadlock and marvel rivals
@@Zhohan- something funny was that one of the developers said that queue times being shorter without a second tank was a "happy accident"...
i swear i wanted to break something then and there because WHY are you gonna change something that worked for years?
Ngl, til this day I’m pissed that my own physical copy of overwatch turned into overwatch 2. It just seems shitty. The first game was really good it didn’t need to be overwritten with the second game!
Well, in defense of Juno’s cinematic, I’d say it has some rewatchability if you saw the comic first then the cinematic. The reason why Mei’s cinematic is better is because it had a proper beginning, while Juno’s cinematic was separated into a comic that no one would read.
Plus Mei was a character we knew, knew something was up, and then shown and told. We saw how her life changed for the worse then better...
We saw Bastion, nobody cared that much for Bastion... then everyone supported his corner shooting. Then comic happened where Torb puts aside his agenda and adopts him.
Juno, even with knowledge of the comic, has nothing. Her story is zilch, not an existing thing, it's kick rock and Earth. It is the definition of pointlessness, and with Ram, Sojourn and Mauga now here, this is the norm now.
I feel like that speaks to the garbage budget lmfao. Im sure the writers wanted to fit it all into one cinematic
oh yea not only that the cinematics were the best bc they put all their love and soul into it and it gave us tears bc it had so many emotional moments which was the best
especially Dragons that cinematic made me go and play overwatch it looked like disney animation studio made it and it was emotional and great
even soujorns that made me hyped for the story of how ow gonna defeat null sector
BUT SADLY THAT AINT EVER GONNA COME BACK COZ BLIZZ REFUSES TO GIVE US MORE LORE, STORY, AND CINEMATICS TO MAKE US LOVE THE GAME EVEN MORE
and instead they are putting all their effort to forcing 5v5 on us and make us forget 6v6 they are trying to go onto us and say 5v5 is better 6v6 is bad dont play it
and they love to buff supps and tanks to infinite health while dps get 100% nerfs and it sucks
I dont want this I asked for lore, cinematics, and story
Ah yes I have to external media to to understand the ORIGIN STORY of a character
This is true. Juno's comic is really GOOD. But the video has a major point that there's basically no development on any actual future story.
Overwatch, as a story, doesn't need any more characters. They need to actually do something. Anything.
The Overwatch plot never made sense in game : They release so many cinematics to build up the fact that OW was dismantle long ago but must get back toghether so Winston made the call.
And yet, when you finally get your hands on the game, you quickly realise that, these characters you're playing as, are not in their "Post--Call" version but more like what they look like/Last seen appearence when OW got dismantle.
We had to wait OW2 to finally get the post-call version and the cinematic were they actually reunite.
I'm sure they had good intention with the plot but my god. When you oversell those legendary heroes getting back toghether but you fumble this hard, it's safe to say the OW "plot" was lost a long time ago or was only meant to be a badass backstory to sell some cool world building and characters and nothing more.
Yeah. Backstories. That's all Overwatch ever was at this point.
To be honest thats where OW could have been cool. Coompletely shift the characters to their post recall
I don't know much about Overwatch lore, I only know that there is an official Reaper novel/book (idk) in which they made a continuity error so big that it implied either:
A-Retconning almost the entire history of the character.
B-Reaper was a police officer at the age of 5/8 years old.
Amazing.
yeah, Reaper was an imposing edgy man since his infancy. He just came out like that
honestly they have a huge problem with all the aging of the characters in overwatch 2, due to all the old lore they released several of the characters should be much older than they are (in their late 20's to early 30's) but instead are in their early 20s. kiri should be older than they say she is, reaper should be older, phara should be younger. Overwatch has a huge problem with needing to retcon a lot of their character information that got ruined when overwatch 2 came out
@@battlepho I think the biggest problem was saying the ages of the characters, some stories avoid doing this to avoid these inconsistencies in the future and limit themselves to letting people interpret the ages, but I don't know why, Overwatch insists on giving exact ages and in the end they have to retcon several things or add lore to justify errors that they hadn't thought of at the beginning.
@@battlepho Yeah. It feels like they want all the characters to be young so they can market the game more with handsome or pretty characters but in the process make it difficult to add years of backstory so they have continuity errors.
I only rewatch the Kiriko trailer because the trailer is so emotional somehow That make me tear UP each Time i wish Kiriko was this kind in game
WaIt tIlL YoU SeE Me oN My bIkE
@@syvulpie yet this voice Line is so random and i love it
It feels weird that kiriko is so kind and has a great and caring personality in her trailer, but in game she's just annoying.
@@NovaaTheGreatProbably cause Blizzard thinks that’s how teenagers act like 😂😂
@@jvl5379 but in the game she shouldn't even be a teenager, her story was that she trained along side genji and hanzo who are both in their 30's. even if genji and hanzo were like 14 while they were training (which they looked younger than) kiriko should at least be like 25 years old. idk how overwatch is fumbling their own lore so badly to try to make her seem like a teenager
I loved the cinematics so much, I have gotten people into the game just through them, I even showed my mom those cinematics - just because they were great. They stood alone. You didn't need to know anything for them, they had their little stories, anyone outside of the overwatch community could enjoy them. Lets be real, those cinematics were the main reason people wanted an OW2 - wanted a PVE game - because they saw the story in those and wanted to play that very story. I miss the times a new cinematic dropped and i just had to drop everything and watch it.
I hate that I've had to turn to fanfiction to finish some of these incredible stories. I want to see Hanzo and Widowmaker's individual stories develop. I want to see what the whole point of overwatch coming together is. I wasn't able to play overwatch 1 back in the day because of the cost but I poured over lore and videos and any scrap I could get. I've been playing 2 kind of obsessively since it came to steam, and I enjoy it, but It's also likely because I'm new to the gameplay. The lack of story progression really does sadden me.
I can imagine that for someone who is completely new, OW2 works pretty well. But for us, who we have known OW since its release, it is just unfortunate to see how this game lost its soul.
Do people even right fanfiction for overwatch anymore? It used to be super active back in like 2017-2018 but the last time I looked, it was like most of those stories hadn’t been updated since then lol
@@razrv3lc I've found a few. It is hard to find non-smut stories now, though.
@@tytotech9498 Move over then I'm trying to read about roadhog getting pegged freaky style
Yeah sorry, you missed out. The original game was far superior. Launch day was amazing, but update after update it only got worse. More boring. Eventually it didn’t feel like they were Heroes anymore, just futuristic soldiers with “balanced” abilities…
It’s insane that OW2 makes me miss leveling my account for loot boxes
Honor & Glory is the sole reason why whenever someone asks me to switch out of Reinhardt, I say "no u switch"
Too bad blizzard hates Rein so much. At this point, they're just giving him skins and gave him that cinematic to make up for the fact they won't make him feel like a tank again lol
Damnit reinhardt!
2:06 omg that’s wicked 💀
I saw this and immediately went to the comments
Twomad does not need this disrespect
It’s sad that I got into overwatch all late and without knowing the bad things they’ve been doing, I’ve been loving the Ashe character so much and have had fun alone :(
You know it's fucked when "ow2" still just jumps straight to a loading screen and not a proper opening years later.
The story was over the moment Michael Chu, the lead story writer, left Blizzard
Which year was that
@@goosefan1 March 2020
To be fair he did some stupid shit too like making Soldier 76 gay in order to draw buzz away from the Blitzchung controversy, or renaming McCree with this totally cool new name that didn't exist before the breast milk thing. Story was pozzed long before 2020, and the story was already on life support around the time Hamtaro or Ligma got put onto the roster. 2018 was the last year they had put out animated shorts, which was what most people were looking forward to.
@@Hyrule409 Cassady is such a cool name for a cowboy character! They definetly spent 1 second on this new and very cool name!
Overbought is the new name for Overwatch.
Overwatch still fits tho. Cuse we can Overwatch it die :(
Oversell
i still fw Overwhelmingly Negative ☠️
Making the skins premium after I bought the game should be a crime
Archives could be such a smart way to move the story, doing what they LOVE now, selling skins. Make skins that are canon, like the Soldier 24 for Reaper, the talon skins, the overwatch skins for mercy, tracer, rein, torb. Just keep doing this, AND BRING THE OLD GAME MODES BACK! Yes, we played the heck out of them, and we want more, but we're not getting more anyways, just keep the old ones there for the new players to enjoy too. I am genuinely so sad that I can't play these old game modes with my new friends that only played OW2, all because of a false promise of a PVE that will never come to life.
You nailed it. OW used to be mine and my sister's favorite game to play together. Hundreds of hours, playing just for the sheer fun of it, because we loved the characters and their story so much. Once we saw OW2 was going F2P and introducing their own garbage battle pass, we honestly gave up and dropped everything. OW is a shell of its former self, with no soul, no heart, just a garbage cash grab. Say what one will about Fortnite, but that game is still supported to this day, and is about to have another large live event, and Fortnite's BP has infinitely more value than all of OW2 combined. That is frustrating and sad.
I remember the time when I first started watching these back when the Zero Hour one dropped and they were so good that not only did they get me back in the game, but I actually got interested in the lore for a while. But since Ow2, I only just started playing again not cause of the cinematics some I didn't even know came out, but just by pure coincidence.
what story lol? overwatch 2 developers never tried to do anything, the only pack of missions relased were made by overwatch 1 developers, the rio mission had a demo playable in 2019 and they show a lot of the other two missions. the things we saw later were going to be the zenyatta mission vs talon but overwatch 2 developers couldnt even finish a single fucking mission
Bruh that genji and Hanzo Dragon short hit every time 🤧
Overwatch feels just soulless now. no story, no exciting events, no lootboxes, just removed things from ow1
It is a sad state of affairs when Fighting games like Mortal Kombat have better story progression than Overwatch. Seriously Fighting games have more character and plot than a story driven hero shooter with cinematics, shorts, comics etc.
kinda suprised you didn't mention about the sombra cinematic cause that one was peak overwatch.
With the massive success of arcane and cyberpunk edge runners you can see how blizzard really fumbled the bag with the potential overwatch cinematics could have become.
Ramattra does have a cinematic... but, it's to sell his Megatron skin :(
BRO I ACTUALLY LIKE THE STYLE OF THE VENTURE ONE THO! ROUGH OUTLINES DOESN'T MEAN IT LOOKS BAD!!!
but basically everything else you said is valid
And it's still wild to me that we've barely got any lore/background on Ramattra, probably my favorite OW2 character, since he came out. All we've really gotten is that he was once a student of Mondatta and is the leader of Null Sector.
Overwatch cinematics were literally the only reason i wanted to play the game but i couldn't because i didn't have the money at the time. Now the soul is gone...
the fact that some people still think blizzard gives a single fuck about what we want is funny
After the Hazard “cinematic” I’ve never agreed more. The quality has dropped 100 fold
At this point, I'll just imagine my own version of the lore and story in my head.
Couldn’t have said this better. You literally described the exact feeling I have towards this game.
Agreed
Every single person I know who played overwatch including me, have started the game because we saw the cinematics. I HATE how game companies keep denying the fact that their games have the success it has mainly because of the artists who create the hype and the passion. If it weren’t for dragons nothing would make me play a fps game, I dont like the genre but hearing the voice actors seeing the art watching the cinematics it made me wanna play, i was hyped asf. Just look how arcane resurrected league and its community.
Overwatch (2) is just a widespread case study on Stockholm syndrome. Once they cancelled the PvE, I quit the game, it lost its reason for existence. The only reason people play it is for nostalgia
Imagine if we got a movie to continue the storyline
I’d rather a TV show but yeah
Overwatch as a franchise would benefit so much from having a Arcane level of tv show
I actually got into overwatch because of these cinematics. It was on my for you page and I watched the cinematics and FELL IN LOVE!! after that I wanted the game so badly!
On one hand, the story has to stagnate. The war has to continue, or else they would have little excuse to introduce new heroes to help fight. On the other, what new enemy are they fighting? If it is the omnics, so be it. But yea seeing that in a cinematic would be cool
This isnt a doompost I swear.
The piece of the puzzle you're missing here is that WHOEVER is calling the shots no longer gives a fuck about overwatch's(and blizzard's in general quite frankly) public perception.
If youre old enough to remember blizzard's early games at the time they used to be the golden child. Their quality of cinematic and games in general were kind of a mirror to square enix at the time, massive work for not as much return just to be the household name(and maybe a bit of ego flexing). It worked, blizzard cemented themselves as the cool guys and theyve been riding it since. Pretty sure the people who set it on that path are long gone, and the people left are just riding the train with no destination, not realizing why most people have long since left. Or maybe they just realize their reputation is so bad that nobody cares anymore. Im sure the shareholders are filled with confidence at their competence regardless of the topic or subject as long as money is the end result.
Swear its not a doompost, just putting this frame of reference out there. Its likely never returning
I think blizzard is going to be closer to the chopping block than any of us are expecting. Ow dies, WOW's updates stop bringing in sustainable player numbers. What now? Nothing they release will have the soul if their current ips, nor the quality. They're a ubisoft timebomb in disguise. The second this new blizzard has to make smth on it's own, people will get it.
The only thing that's keeping me playing Overwatch, the one thing that made me come back after months of leaving it, was Venture, and Venture didn't even get a cinematic, and the only animation they did get was 40 seconds long, they don't even get any skins, I could leave Overwatch and lose absolutely nothing because Venture's fanbase cares more than Blizzard and I can get approximately 2000% more content of them through that than I can through Overwatch, I'm so sick of it, and now they've decided that the best choice for a gamemode is just "Hey guys remember Overwatch 1???"
A personal peeve of mine, in the hero gallery, some hero's like kiriko and junkerqueen, you can watch their cinematics in game. but I think there's only like 3 hero's that have that. i can maybe understand not doing cinematics that heavily feature multiple characters like the dragons cinematic. but even Juno's trailer that has only her isn't featured in the hero gallery (last time i checked). it's just weird and inconsistent.
Overwatch was so much to me back in the OW1 days. Beyond the game itself, the story and the characters kept me engrossed and entertained when I needed it most. I loved speculating about the lore and about what would come next--- sigh. It's really a shame how things turned out. Could've been really cool.
My favourite cinematics has to be Dragons, the Reinhardt one and the absolute masterpiece that is the Doomfist trailer, THAT is an Overwatch animation.
The current OW story is that literally everyone responsible for the OW story got fired ✨🤷♀️✨
This video is so high quality for such a small channel, keep up the good work! You deserve more subscribers.
I mean lets not lie to ourselves. Overwatch has never had a good "plot", it had interesting looking characters fighting a generic bad guy group. They always try to insert themes of discrimination here or persevering through tough time but never a good story.
If anyone doesn't believe me just ask yourself why did the omnics rise up against humanity. Because of discrimination? Well we see over and over again that basically every omnic but ramatra is living peacefully. Why does talon do bad things? Because generic bad guy ceo payed them? Is that really a good plot? When basically none of the idea introduced have been explored or given any reason to exist outside of bad guy does bad thing, then its not a good story, its just a setting to give excuses for these characters to fight, and thats exactly what we have and all we will ever get out of this game. Dont expect more from blizzard.
The fact that Blizzard could go the route of Arcane but just doesn’t, is infuriating
Also calling TheLineAnimation studio third rate is crazy, they’ve made stunning work for Riot and others
Honestly, as much as I love Arcane, that IP is lightning in a bottle.
Very few animated productions get the amount of time, funding, and creative control as Arcane did.
Knowing ActiBlizz, they would either underfund the project or have executives hijack creative control from the producers.
the new character announcement defintely didnt help Blizzards case in this lol
i love how they’re wasting rammattra’s potential as a character
its actually so sad blizzard scrapped their "arcane style show" by Netflix bc they poached some employees that would've been all we wanted if we couldn't have pve
Overwatch 1 : Hype heroic stuffs
Overwatch 2 : Come and buy this thing!
the only ow2 cinematic I regularly rewatch is mauga's "great day". I love watching this guy charging through those omnics and causing pure chaos on the ship, and I was like 'oh man I can't wait until he comes out to the game so I can also charge through enemies, crush them with the stomp, and *finish* them with miniguns, and then he comes out and I can't even charge because his "identity" is to stand still in the choke and press m1+m2 for the entire match...
I've been a fan since before I even hit my teens purely because of the cinematics. I never played games other than pokemon really but I remember stumbling upon an overwatch cinematic on TH-cam and I loved it so much I became a hard-core fan! I never actually realised it was a game and only managed to play it for the first time when overwatch 2 came out but those cinematics probably in some way effected who I've become today. I so badly hope that they start creating more true stories so that eventually we have a game with some backbone other than just gameplay (and it would be cool if every character had a cinematic but that might be a bit much to hope for right now).
I used to be so hyped up about the overwatch lore expanding and seeing new cinematics, now its just advertising on colabs amd bundles and millions of skins for kiriko
Activision should realize there are people playing the game who have no interest in buying new skins and cosmetics or people that don't even have money and just want to enjoy the game.
They dont care if the average player doesn't give them money, only the whales that spend $40+ dollars on a free game.
@@ashtonsmokey1363 I hate to tell you, but they don't consider someone who spends $40, or hell, even hundreds of dollars a whale. A whale in these games spends literally THOUSANDS of dollars and those are the types the business suits are trying to catch. Someone who will buy every piece of slop skin or voice line or spray that they'll put out.
Real. ow ip had the potential to be a complete superhero franchize. The story and worldbuilding has so much potential.
From loot boxes to "micro" transactions that cost more than overwatch 1 did, this is why people are moving to games like Warframe
Game likes Warframe, that only offer "micro" transactions like $50 skins with resource boosters. Ok then.
The problem is Blizzard bled out most of its talent following all of the controversies+loosing that prestige, so no new people aren't get in either. It shows in all of their games, non of them got that classic blizzard sheen. It shows that talent doesn't lie in companies, but in the people who work there.
Were the 3 shorts we got for Invasion not considered cinematics?
I dont even think it's a matter of what's profitable because cinematics progressing the lore create a lot of hype for the game and draw attention to it, attracting more players and thus profits.
Not gonna lie.... I forgot fighting evil omnics was the original plot
ow2 story is the biggest nothing burger ever, it’s like if they want to make a story without making a story. in short *the* *story* *can* *fit* *in* *one* *paper*
it's really sad , i started playing ow 1 when someone showed me the cinematics too and it's so sad to never tear up to new animations
The problem also comes from the new characters arent ex OW/Talon/etc operatives, rather some randos connected to 1 maybe 2 vanilia chars. LW,Juno? Who cares
Illari,Venture? No one knew about them even in the cast
Only Mauga is getting a pass cuz hes been teased since 2018
There's also Ram because he's the next big bad.
to be fair Ram,sojourn,and even junker Queen were teased/concept art but yeah
I mean mauga gets a pass because he's talon. Like uh, he's literally a talon operative.
Man the Compellation gave me chills and goose bumps, i miss peak Overwatch...
Also 14:10 is like me, im a league player i got into ow at 2018 becuz of the cinematics and stuff, and yes it was my first ever FPS on pc
I remember being so hyped whenever there was a story mission out bro, really sad that now all that we have is 3 missions behind a paywall
Kiriko's cinematic was beautiful.
That's the least time this game brought tears to my eyes for any positive reason.
The soul is gone. I never dropped a game so fast.
Countless hours since launch, and I dropped it after a single day of OW2. I occasionally play a couple hours a season. Never spend a penny.
i didn't lose my shit for echo BUT i did had a "OOF" reaction when she flies hyperfast dodgig stuff
So? 6 years of no cinematic is the worst? Imagine 14 years of NO MAYOR UPDATES
"Does this mean Overwatch is back?"
*"No, but we can give you a awful and grindy downgrade stripped of all the story and most of the fun with prices to make a bank broke with Jeff gone."*
The fact ramattra, the leader of the faction who declared war on humanity did not got a single cinematic but collab number 378273 did is INSANE for me