Hey, I was in booth at Gencon. CB doesn't currently have plans to do stat cards beyond the initial box (or small releases). But Carlos said if there's a strong ask from the community that could change.
As a new player, a picture of the miniature to a data card would be absolutely brilliant. With my current collection and the few intro games Ive had just with 5 miniatures involved its so hard to remember who is who and who can do what. Im always going back to the CB website even shop to try and ID miniatures to then match to their stats, so this would be an absolute must in my opinion.
Drake Hotline Bling Meme: Stat cards for N5 that will be wrong as soon as they're printed | Stat cards with simplified stats just for troops in a starter box
Nice job! These changes seem good! Having pictures of the models is huge! Trying to figure out which model was which was one of the biggest issues I had when I first started as to a new person coming to the game, the models look very similar!
I think that's one of the strongest points and the weakest point for the game. You have a lot of variety of units but you also have 50 different units that use the same armor types or look a lot like other units in the same faction. I play/collect YJ so I have a ton of stuff that looks alike to each other.
I’m just getting into Infinity. I think making the roll for damage the same as all other skill rolls is a very good thing to make things less confusing.
I imagine Vitality is just renamed W, to avoid confusion between Wound token and Wounds stat. I cant imagine robots having Vitality, that sounds like something specifically only living beings have
I think you are right on the money with the idea of changing saving rolls to be equal or below. It really tidies a lot of things up. At first I thought it might be weird to have stronger weapons with lower numbers but that is how armour piecing works in other games so I'm sure its fine! I'd like to see an increased number of attacks in close combat for the CC oriented units as it lowers the random luck against weaker CC enemies but we will have to wait and see! Maybe there will be a 'total reaction CC' and total reaction ranged' stat if they do this. The cards in the starter set and rules are a great idea as long as they update the digital versions!
It's going to be so much tidier moving to this system. My hope is that MA will grant attacking burst bonuses to make it more impactful too. But this may make NBW too powerful if it negates the extra attacks and the other modifiers.
I saw the stat cards in person, they are real for sure :) even filmed one. Apparently they will come with starter box type products, not for everything.
@@the_infinitygamer I spotted the Vit and Carlos told me about it. I didn't notice the weapon damage cuz he didnt break out the cards until we were filming. Also it was the last day of Gencon and I was barely conscious by then lol
@@the_infinitygamer sadly I missed it. Im pretty sure it covered all the same stuff but I haven't talked to anyone who made it. I just shot you an email in case you wanna check out the interview with Carlos, it has some interesting info in it
OMG, if they fix save rolls so it really is consistent (this is my biggest contention with the game so far), that's a huge change and amazing. Everyone I played with while we were learning the game, had the exact same feeling, it was just really odd. I think your summary/presumption is pretty much spot-on, too - that's much more intuitive and consistent with the rest of the game. Big win if true :D
From the pictures there appeared to be Pano and JSA, the 2 forces revealed for a 2 player pack in the seminar, plus in Bostria's video the table had a code one skirt around the bottom.
Really good catch on these likely being the intro game profiles. Lots of folks speculating the loss of shock but I think you are onto something. Still wouldn't be surprised if shock is removed though since shock immune is so ubiquitous!
I totally agree, shock is dispensable! Imo It‘s not bringing so much more to the game. Funfact: When i asked the AI chatbot aka the infinityGPT how many profiles do have shock immunity the answer was 20-30% ;)
@NeuRomanCer1984 Totally off -topic (sorry!), but are you jazzed about the potential possible maybe could-happen adaptation of Neuromancer for Apple TV? I'm hesitantly optimistic...most of the adaptations of Gibson's work so far have fallen pretty flat.
The new damage system is fantastic! I learned Infinity 2-3 years ago, and the old system gave me headaches since I was always unsure whether I needed to roll high or low.
It's funny, eh? It seems like such a simple system when you say it out loud, but once you're on the table and rolling, it suddenly becomes unintuitive and a real headache!
Go Ralf!! Thank you for sharing them and giving us a chance to see what you were lucky enough to experience. Anything else juicy hidden on your camera roll?
Thanks for your content mate, really appreciate your energy and work you put in -You make this great game even bigger! Statcards with pictures integrated into the army builder app! and with an export to pdf for printing! If this dream comes true i‘ll sell all of my GW pile of potential at knockdown prices to get more infinity minis… probably not to be completed for a long time neither 😂
You're far too kind! Thank you for giving back with the comment. Stat cards and images would be so good, and images on the app *chef's kiss*. Hahaha a transfer of potential!
Personally, I like how simple it is to comprehend the current "danger" of a weapon and how intuitively the armor modifies that value, but especially when I was starting, the rolling above was a little awkward until I got used to it. One issue that I can see coming up with making saving roles need to be low is that this could encourage weighting dice, now I am sure that 99.9% of infinity players would never do that, but keeping some important values needing to be high discourages any dice tampering from the people whose only goal is to win no matter what making the game not fun for their opponent
Dammit, all traditional PRGs already have a stat referrign to protection from indirect and/or elemental attacks, it's called "Resistance" - and Corvuses are still keeping the awkward BTS
I reckon vitality has just been renamed to better reflect wounds on a trooper model. It's also a better name for it as "total wounds capacity" - vitality or health makes sense there, whereas wounds are something you accumulate over the lifecycle of a game.
Rolling under is a great idea, I will just struggle to make my mind around 'lower PS, better'... when you compare in N4, damage of a weapon is clear what's stronger
With the current armour saves, it means that all the stats are "bigger is better". So a damage 11 pistol is not the same as a damage 15 HMG. And +1 damage is a positive (good) thing. With the new way the calculation is more consistent but you'll have damage stat where lower is better, which is different to all the other stats. Which system is better? Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
Good point - although the +1 damage will translate to -1 on the save in the new system. You do raise a good perspective on some big numbers being good (BS, CC, Vitality, BTS, ARM) and some low numbers being good (save throw)
I'm most excited about the apparent buff the Shikami got. An extra BS and a proper ranged weapon but only 46 pts compared to the 48 pts on the current BS 12 Combi Rifle version. Looks like CB knows that many profiles, especially many HI, need some love.
I started with CODE ONE and I loved the game. I was soured a little by the jump from C:1 FOR N4 and the players that showed up. If they merge C:1 with N4 to make N5.. that would be interesting
I am ok with the armor save; I think it kinda made sense being different, but the math can be made to work with it being the same roll. It does mean you can cheat easier, as all rolls must be low. But, in terms of learning, good change. I really hope those cards are not just for the learning version, though. The app is good, but having a reference that I can spread out and cross reference between things at the same time is nice too. . . . Maybe the backside is the full rules? To be fair I'm not caught up on the differences in N5 that have even been announced, so still pretty hyped even though I see nothing too positive yet, just reasonably good changes.
I think cheating would be a bigger issue with all low dice being good if there wasn't the F2F mechanic. Your low dice can easily be beaten by my low dice in things like shooting. So while it might work for armour saves it will hinder you in other areas. Watch out for those players switching to their saving throw dice ;P Same, I have to Google some of the units in the Torchlight box and list every time I list build. Cards would help a heap. There hasn't been much announced to be fair. Carlos (all hail) said it's not major rule changes but points and profile adjustments. My other video covers everything we know so far.
Mimetism doesn't impact saving rolls, it only modifies the attacker's ability to hit. One thing we haven't seen that I anticipate will be impacted is Martial Arts. That gives plus mofidiers to damage whereas this new mechanic will switch that to a minus on the save.
As a new player, I haven't even received my Crimson Stone starter box, and Infinity is going away. I hope the starters still use the smaller play mats. The 10 man limit was ok for me, its the footprint that matters most to me. That is why GW's Spearhead is good for me even though they are so stuck to an antiquated combat system. My only concerns with Infinity is going back to facing matters, but the unlimited AOR or ARO (snapshot) seems a bit excessive and leads to less movement in the game, especially if the game is only 3 turns. Cards are a must for any system that has a lot of variety in the combat forces. GW has learned it, but CB has a better business model that is much more hobbyist friendly. I am quickly becoming a Infinity/Warcrow convert from GW 40K/Kill Team & AOS/Warcry.
Your Crimson Stone minis will still be very playable in N5 😀. The game size won’t change either and while the full game technically doesn’t have a unit limit you’ll still see very small games. Facing does matter but that’s OK, you quickly get used to it and the unlimited ARO ends up being fun as you learn to pick off one of your opponents units at a time instead of standing up in front of 5-6 😂
How do you think these cards will be available? Free downloads? Also could this be an inidication that profile bloat is being addressed? I'd imagine it would be hard to make cards for troopers with 10 different profile options.
You know. I was at gencon and saw those and didn’t even think of the significance of what I was looking at. I did think they were really cool and well made.
The new damage would be incredible. I never understood why save we're higher than when the rest is lower than ? 😅 Really hope it gets addressed in N5❤ Amazing content as usual and loads of infinity content coming ❤❤❤
I'm pretty happy with the damage change. I teach Infinity a lot and it's very confusing to beginners. It's no a big block but I'm glad they are being consistent now. The cards are great. It's something they should have done a long time ago. One complaint with beginners is forgetting what troops is what. Man times the only thing that identified what troops it is, is the packaging. After it's thrown out, then what?
Agree completely, it wasn't a big issue teaching damage but it was an unnecessary speed bump. And now that there's a packaging QR code that can only be accessed from the box it's easier to lose track of what's what.
It's a normal roll with a target number, same as ALL other roles in the game. It's just made by the "wrong" player who is now trying to intentionally fail it. (Firing unit's player would want it to succeed, so the "damage goes through". Fired-at unit's player wants it to fail so "the armor blocks the damage". Usually, when I explain it like that, people just take it as part of the "always your turn" thing and roll with it.) I am actually against this change, because - same as with the fireteam changes - I get the feeling CB aims to make something easier by making it more convoluted. Instead of one list of bonuses, I now have two. Instead of one target-number-roll system with small twist in its usage for a single game mechanic, I now have an additional number system where smaller numbers are better? Feels weird.
@@paulindrome It makes perfect sense to me. It's the exact same % and won't change the game at all. It's a slightly different way of thinking. Now I jut need to tell new players to take the PS number + your armor + cover, roll under that. Done. It's easier to get people to add than subtract.
I'm pretty neutral on the suggested change to damage saves. As I never found it particularly difficult or confusing to explain to new players. If anything rolling lower than a target number is the more alien concept for most players. If they had changed that, then that would have made more sense for most players. And a crit would always be on a 20. I just hope if this change is true then Crits are now always on a 1, as a lot of their custom dice have the faction logo on a 1. Plus it makes it more consistent. They could also make the 'above' twenty value something you can add to one for your crit target, so 23 is add 3 to one so you crit on 4 or less. That is easier maths to do than the current system.
It will be alien for a lot of existing players but I think it's easier to explain to newcomers and as CB are clearly focused on growing the player base I can see the logic. I don't think you could have 2 crit values (a 1 and the Success Value), that makes it too powerful. There won't be a change to any of the above 20 rolling with this mechanic. Shooting is near impossible to be 20 or above so it's only CC, which will be unchanged and doesn't impact how saving rolls work.
@@the_infinitygamer I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I mean 1 is always a crit, not the target value, so it works exactly the same except rolling a one is a crit.
I honestly don't understand why "wounds" might be confusing. Every single wargame has things with capacity for taking damage (wounds for you and I), ive never heard anyone have an issue with that. It wasnt an issue in the '80's when every arcade machine gave your thing (pacman/ship/car whatever) 3 wounds. I remember being a 8 or 9 and not being confused by that concept. I fail to understand why now 40+ years later and computer games being even more ubiquitous than then why anyone ever would struggle with the concept that X takes Y amount of damage to kill.
So these cards are probably just limited to the Starter sets. As you advance as a player, you transition across to Army Builder. That's a good idea. I've found with Malifaux, whenever they make a round of errata, it's pretty annoying to have to go get new cards for the affected minis. Not difficult - just annoying.
That seems to be the direction - cards for starter sets as they’re less likely to see tweaks due to their reduced data set. What I think we’ll see is images added to army builder so printed lists have images as a way to keep people happy while enabling the flexibility of a digital platform.
I always figure out damage) armour this way anyhow. Easier for me. Alright slightly different: i total up the damage as normal (eg Shikami PH + MA = 14 + 2 = 16, minus ARM (2) = 14), then instead of thinking about rolling OVER the result (eg > 14), I subtract the result from 20 and know to roll equal to or less than it (eg, =< 6). I find this easy enough, but i suspect that making ARM + Cover saves positives will also reduce cognitive load. It's slightly easier for people to add numbers than to subtract, and Infinity's a high cognitive load game as-is, so this should be a good change. P.S. the Shikami's PS=4 is: 20 - (PH (14) + MA L3 (2)), so the new damage levels - while looking weird as smaller numbers - work out to be the same. And it's great to not have to remember (ie, forget!) to add the MA bonuses!
Not sure on how I feel about Saves quite yet. I genuinely think I’m just misunderstanding how it works so I’m still open minded about it. Hope to see more content and explanation though!
Honestly I was staring at it for a solid ten minutes before my brain clicked. It wasn't until I ran through some practical examples that it fit into place.
@@the_infinitygamer appreciate that. In no way is this going to turn me off from the game, but I feel like I am going to need to play with it before I understand it. Thank you!
saw these cards before the N5 announcement. The differences made me think they were code one, as I'm not familiar with their stats at all. Used them to speculate on JSA Vs PanO 2 player box day before the seminar, but didn't see N5 coming.
With this sort of change happening I can see now what it’s a new edition but I think you were in the same boat as the rest of us. N5 will forever be known as the surprise edition.
@@the_infinitygamer other thing as well, damage mechanic is exactly the same as all others in N4, it's just the wrong person is rolling the dice. If you look at it as a roll to wound, not a save roll it makes sense. And whilst sometimes confusing, I like the sometimes need high or low on your dice, devalues unbalanced dice.
So, i have a question, with the new damage and armor rules, would we want PS/damage to be higher or lower for our weapons? If i understand correctly, you now want a lower damage number, as that reduces the likelihood of saves. Sorry if this is a dumb question, I am new to Infinity and was still learning the N4 rules. Now i get to learn the N5 changes.
@@the_infinitygamer Tahts because of it being an exeption, using normal stst as defensive. They tecnically could add an additional ph-6 defensive stat to profile, but decided not to overload it
That's actually what it's supposed to be. It's a perfectly normal roll with relatively simple-to-determine target number (damage - accumulated armor), just made by the "wrong" player.
Damage would be perfectly in line with other rolls if it was a damage roll, not a save roll. Making it a defender roll inverted the entire process, but I believe that was deliberate because it wasn't enjoyable for defenders to have no part of the roll. While I appreciate the goal of making the defender roll like all other rolls, I probably have the weird annoyance now of it watering down PH's relevance as a stat. A minor thing, but after 15 years of Wolfy lads made me love PH quite a lot.
@the_infinitygamer yeah, makes perfect psychological sense, just created this bump with the rules. My only problem with flipping the script is that it kinda devalues PH nsince damage will be more disassociated from the stat in melee based on profiles seen so far with damage as an attack stat instead. That's such a trivial Ariadna pride concern though that it's a non-starter
Yeah. The Shikami's damage value when he hits with his CCW is 16 in N4 (PH 14 + 2). Now it says PS = 4 on his card (which is 20-4, basically). So, PS = 0 would be equal to Dmg 20.
I find it wierd that people cannot understand how the wound mechanic is "hard." It is very easy. You have taken a hit from your opponent. Roll a dice. The number face up on the dice, add the armour value and any cover, and if the total is higher than the weapons damage, you are alive. Please explain how this is complicated arithmetic 🤔
@@the_infinitygamer this is how most, if not all, players work it out as stated in the rules. It would be interesting to know why Corvus Belli wants to change it. Most people never had a problem with it.
Thank Bostria, I really do hope they change arm saves to be in line with the rest of the rolling. Its such an unnecessary speed bump for teaching new players.
God your audio quality needs improved. Not sure if you need compression or what, but some post processing would really help... or you've already done some and went too far
Sadly that is with a lot of processing. If you could check out the audio on the sci fi terrain video (latest one) and let me know if that’s better. I used a new programme.
@@the_infinitygamer Yeah the new pipeline is much better, but it sounds like you're still over processing the audio in a weird way. I can't tell exactly how, but at least the new way doesn't sound as bad.
@walktxrn yeah the over processing is the AI tool adding a studio effect. It seems to be better than whatever I can do and the funds don’t yet allow for a sound engineer 😞
oh god, please please please give us profile cards! I *hate* using the app and I *hate* using some self-printed stuff and I *hate* using a f*cking thicc book. Just give me the cards!
Thank you for your videos, my friend, but please get a better mic. I had to stop watching after about 3 minutes because the noise, popping sounds and clipping were unbearable. :(
@@the_infinitygamer apologies if you've already tried this, but you might have the receiving volume in the mic set too high, so the audio is peaking before it gets to the camera. Once the mics are on, try pressing the button on the top of the receiver until the "volume triangle" on it is at its lowest. Sounds simple but I got caught out by it myself
I have a thought about the new armor system. Combi rifles are currently damage 13. If I roll a 13 on the dice, I have failed the save because I didn't exceed the roll. New combi rifles are "Survival rating" 7. At a glance that looks like the damage is the same. But with the new system either its still different because you can't crit your "target number" A roll of 7 still fails like currently. OR if I need to roll 7 or less then combi rifles are "effectively" damage 12.
If Corvus Belli comes out with stat cards with photos, I'll freak out! That would be so wildly helpful!
Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!
And even integrated in the Army Builder App!? 🤯
Cards and images in the app would be next level epic.
Hey, I was in booth at Gencon. CB doesn't currently have plans to do stat cards beyond the initial box (or small releases). But Carlos said if there's a strong ask from the community that could change.
I think it would work if they simply added images to the army builder and list printing feature.
Yes, this would be awesome and i think selfprinted statcards also reduces the problems of updated profiles…
As a new player, a picture of the miniature to a data card would be absolutely brilliant. With my current collection and the few intro games Ive had just with 5 miniatures involved its so hard to remember who is who and who can do what. Im always going back to the CB website even shop to try and ID miniatures to then match to their stats, so this would be an absolute must in my opinion.
Same! All it takes is to play, or play against, a 'new' army and it's back to square one on identifying minis.
I find the Human Sphere website to be way more helpful with identifying minis.
@andrewbeeching1240 same
@@andrewbeeching1240 I completely forgot about that. To be honest I haven't looked at their website yet. Thank you.
I photoshopped a little page of profiles with photos of the model I have😂
Pretty ugly but very convenient ❤
Drake Hotline Bling Meme: Stat cards for N5 that will be wrong as soon as they're printed | Stat cards with simplified stats just for troops in a starter box
Spot on!
Nice job! These changes seem good! Having pictures of the models is huge! Trying to figure out which model was which was one of the biggest issues I had when I first started as to a new person coming to the game, the models look very similar!
I agree! I never understood why it was so hard to figure out which model is which! Its like they didn't want you to buy models.
I still have that issue! Even now I'll be playing someone and need to ask which model is which profile. Images would negate that.
I think that's one of the strongest points and the weakest point for the game. You have a lot of variety of units but you also have 50 different units that use the same armor types or look a lot like other units in the same faction. I play/collect YJ so I have a ton of stuff that looks alike to each other.
YJ always trips be up. Even hearing the names I get consider which is which.
I’m just getting into Infinity. I think making the roll for damage the same as all other skill rolls is a very good thing to make things less confusing.
Fully agree! Stops the brain from clunking to a stop from overwork!
I imagine Vitality is just renamed W, to avoid confusion between Wound token and Wounds stat. I cant imagine robots having Vitality, that sounds like something specifically only living beings have
It’s something I’m interested to learn more about as I never ran into confusion with Wounds.
The ghost in the shell
That is the exact reason Carlos gave me for the change, but he said it will also apply to robots. Standardization
I think you are right on the money with the idea of changing saving rolls to be equal or below. It really tidies a lot of things up. At first I thought it might be weird to have stronger weapons with lower numbers but that is how armour piecing works in other games so I'm sure its fine!
I'd like to see an increased number of attacks in close combat for the CC oriented units as it lowers the random luck against weaker CC enemies but we will have to wait and see! Maybe there will be a 'total reaction CC' and total reaction ranged' stat if they do this.
The cards in the starter set and rules are a great idea as long as they update the digital versions!
It's going to be so much tidier moving to this system. My hope is that MA will grant attacking burst bonuses to make it more impactful too. But this may make NBW too powerful if it negates the extra attacks and the other modifiers.
I saw the stat cards in person, they are real for sure :) even filmed one. Apparently they will come with starter box type products, not for everything.
That makes sense! Did you spot the change to vitality and weapon damage at the time?
@@the_infinitygamer I spotted the Vit and Carlos told me about it. I didn't notice the weapon damage cuz he didnt break out the cards until we were filming. Also it was the last day of Gencon and I was barely conscious by then lol
@DefectiveDice hahaha I bet! Did you attend the seminar?
@@the_infinitygamer sadly I missed it. Im pretty sure it covered all the same stuff but I haven't talked to anyone who made it. I just shot you an email in case you wanna check out the interview with Carlos, it has some interesting info in it
@DefectiveDice I can only imagine how broke one would be after an event like that.
OMG, if they fix save rolls so it really is consistent (this is my biggest contention with the game so far), that's a huge change and amazing. Everyone I played with while we were learning the game, had the exact same feeling, it was just really odd.
I think your summary/presumption is pretty much spot-on, too - that's much more intuitive and consistent with the rest of the game. Big win if true :D
With the changes of a Multirifle and B13, the Shikami is now a great shooting profile.
I wonder if this hints towards JSA get better at it overall
From the pictures there appeared to be Pano and JSA, the 2 forces revealed for a 2 player pack in the seminar, plus in Bostria's video the table had a code one skirt around the bottom.
Maybe Code One will exist but as the brand for the intro path - good spotting on the branding.
Really good catch on these likely being the intro game profiles. Lots of folks speculating the loss of shock but I think you are onto something. Still wouldn't be surprised if shock is removed though since shock immune is so ubiquitous!
Thank you! You’re right about shock immunity though, it’s quite a shock when a unit doesn’t have shock immunity!
I totally agree, shock is dispensable! Imo It‘s not bringing so much more to the game. Funfact: When i asked the AI chatbot aka the infinityGPT how many profiles do have shock immunity the answer was 20-30% ;)
@NeuRomanCer1984
Totally off -topic (sorry!), but are you jazzed about the potential possible maybe could-happen adaptation of Neuromancer for Apple TV? I'm hesitantly optimistic...most of the adaptations of Gibson's work so far have fallen pretty flat.
Now iam! Did not knew about it :) ❤️
Even flat would probably be bigger than most other stuff ;)
The new damage system is fantastic! I learned Infinity 2-3 years ago, and the old system gave me headaches since I was always unsure whether I needed to roll high or low.
I still get headaches! Especially when using non-lethal ammo where the save is -6 on the PH.
It's funny, eh? It seems like such a simple system when you say it out loud, but once you're on the table and rolling, it suddenly becomes unintuitive and a real headache!
I'm really hyped about the new armour saves. It's a problem my friends often have so making all of the rolls similar will certainly help
Fully agree. Always great when it’s one less thing to learn/teach
Yes! It always has been a weird and unecessary break in the logic!
This would be an awesome change :)
Yes, I can confirm this was genuine at GenCon... one of the images was shot by me. :D
Go Ralf!! Thank you for sharing them and giving us a chance to see what you were lucky enough to experience. Anything else juicy hidden on your camera roll?
Thanks for your content mate, really appreciate your energy and work you put in -You make this great game even bigger!
Statcards with pictures integrated into the army builder app! and with an export to pdf for printing!
If this dream comes true i‘ll sell all of my GW pile of potential at knockdown prices to get more infinity minis… probably not to be completed for a long time neither 😂
You're far too kind! Thank you for giving back with the comment.
Stat cards and images would be so good, and images on the app *chef's kiss*.
Hahaha a transfer of potential!
Love the idea of unit cards. And making armor rolls more like the other rolls is great
Fully agree
Personally, I like how simple it is to comprehend the current "danger" of a weapon and how intuitively the armor modifies that value, but especially when I was starting, the rolling above was a little awkward until I got used to it. One issue that I can see coming up with making saving roles need to be low is that this could encourage weighting dice, now I am sure that 99.9% of infinity players would never do that, but keeping some important values needing to be high discourages any dice tampering from the people whose only goal is to win no matter what making the game not fun for their opponent
Weighted dice is a tricky one as a really low roll, for everything other than saves, could be beaten by your opponent’s slightly higher roll.
I think this new damage system sounds like a great change - hyped for N5!
🎉🎉🎉
Dammit, all traditional PRGs already have a stat referrign to protection from indirect and/or elemental attacks, it's called "Resistance" - and Corvuses are still keeping the awkward BTS
I think that’s to align with the lore of advanced technology.
I reckon vitality has just been renamed to better reflect wounds on a trooper model. It's also a better name for it as "total wounds capacity" - vitality or health makes sense there, whereas wounds are something you accumulate over the lifecycle of a game.
I agree but it will make the engineer/doctor roles a little different if it’s all one thing. Same with unconscious levels.
@@the_infinitygamer Not if they've separated out for things like tags, vehicles.etc. which sounds like what they're doing..
That will be interesting to see.
Rolling under is a great idea, I will just struggle to make my mind around 'lower PS, better'... when you compare in N4, damage of a weapon is clear what's stronger
It took me a solid half hour to rewire my brain 😂
With the current armour saves, it means that all the stats are "bigger is better". So a damage 11 pistol is not the same as a damage 15 HMG. And +1 damage is a positive (good) thing. With the new way the calculation is more consistent but you'll have damage stat where lower is better, which is different to all the other stats. Which system is better? Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
Good point - although the +1 damage will translate to -1 on the save in the new system. You do raise a good perspective on some big numbers being good (BS, CC, Vitality, BTS, ARM) and some low numbers being good (save throw)
I'm most excited about the apparent buff the Shikami got. An extra BS and a proper ranged weapon but only 46 pts compared to the 48 pts on the current BS 12 Combi Rifle version. Looks like CB knows that many profiles, especially many HI, need some love.
It does look promising for a rebalance.
I started with CODE ONE and I loved the game. I was soured a little by the jump from C:1 FOR N4 and the players that showed up.
If they merge C:1 with N4 to make N5.. that would be interesting
I think that merge is what they’re working on. Which will be so good.
I am ok with the armor save; I think it kinda made sense being different, but the math can be made to work with it being the same roll. It does mean you can cheat easier, as all rolls must be low. But, in terms of learning, good change.
I really hope those cards are not just for the learning version, though. The app is good, but having a reference that I can spread out and cross reference between things at the same time is nice too. . . . Maybe the backside is the full rules?
To be fair I'm not caught up on the differences in N5 that have even been announced, so still pretty hyped even though I see nothing too positive yet, just reasonably good changes.
I think cheating would be a bigger issue with all low dice being good if there wasn't the F2F mechanic. Your low dice can easily be beaten by my low dice in things like shooting. So while it might work for armour saves it will hinder you in other areas. Watch out for those players switching to their saving throw dice ;P
Same, I have to Google some of the units in the Torchlight box and list every time I list build. Cards would help a heap.
There hasn't been much announced to be fair. Carlos (all hail) said it's not major rule changes but points and profile adjustments. My other video covers everything we know so far.
I think an important clue might be that mimetism is still minus 6 for figuring out the new save roll mechanics
Mimetism doesn't impact saving rolls, it only modifies the attacker's ability to hit.
One thing we haven't seen that I anticipate will be impacted is Martial Arts. That gives plus mofidiers to damage whereas this new mechanic will switch that to a minus on the save.
I was just thinking lately that "Wounds" makes no sense as a stat name and here we go.
You manifested change
Like the new save mechanic. The old one always felt a bit inconsistent to me.
Agree!
The demo team were using and trained on the cards at the event
That's good to know. Might make it easier for FLGS to run basic demos too.
As a new player, I haven't even received my Crimson Stone starter box, and Infinity is going away. I hope the starters still use the smaller play mats. The 10 man limit was ok for me, its the footprint that matters most to me. That is why GW's Spearhead is good for me even though they are so stuck to an antiquated combat system. My only concerns with Infinity is going back to facing matters, but the unlimited AOR or ARO (snapshot) seems a bit excessive and leads to less movement in the game, especially if the game is only 3 turns.
Cards are a must for any system that has a lot of variety in the combat forces. GW has learned it, but CB has a better business model that is much more hobbyist friendly. I am quickly becoming a Infinity/Warcrow convert from GW 40K/Kill Team & AOS/Warcry.
Your Crimson Stone minis will still be very playable in N5 😀. The game size won’t change either and while the full game technically doesn’t have a unit limit you’ll still see very small games.
Facing does matter but that’s OK, you quickly get used to it and the unlimited ARO ends up being fun as you learn to pick off one of your opponents units at a time instead of standing up in front of 5-6 😂
How do you think these cards will be available? Free downloads? Also could this be an inidication that profile bloat is being addressed? I'd imagine it would be hard to make cards for troopers with 10 different profile options.
I imagine they’ll not exist for the starter boxes, the army app will hopefully include images for printed lists.
You know. I was at gencon and saw those and didn’t even think of the significance of what I was looking at. I did think they were really cool and well made.
😂 to be fair I think the context of the seminar Q&A made the difference in my analysis.
@@the_infinitygamer ah yeah I was running the painting competition so I missed the seminar
The new damage would be incredible. I never understood why save we're higher than when the rest is lower than ? 😅 Really hope it gets addressed in N5❤
Amazing content as usual and loads of infinity content coming ❤❤❤
Thank you so much! Loads of stuff in the works getting ready for N5
I'm pretty happy with the damage change. I teach Infinity a lot and it's very confusing to beginners. It's no a big block but I'm glad they are being consistent now. The cards are great. It's something they should have done a long time ago. One complaint with beginners is forgetting what troops is what. Man times the only thing that identified what troops it is, is the packaging. After it's thrown out, then what?
Agree completely, it wasn't a big issue teaching damage but it was an unnecessary speed bump. And now that there's a packaging QR code that can only be accessed from the box it's easier to lose track of what's what.
I'm going through my grey horde at the moment, trying to identify what's what, and having a hell of a time...
It's a normal roll with a target number, same as ALL other roles in the game. It's just made by the "wrong" player who is now trying to intentionally fail it. (Firing unit's player would want it to succeed, so the "damage goes through". Fired-at unit's player wants it to fail so "the armor blocks the damage". Usually, when I explain it like that, people just take it as part of the "always your turn" thing and roll with it.)
I am actually against this change, because - same as with the fireteam changes - I get the feeling CB aims to make something easier by making it more convoluted.
Instead of one list of bonuses, I now have two.
Instead of one target-number-roll system with small twist in its usage for a single game mechanic, I now have an additional number system where smaller numbers are better? Feels weird.
@@paulindrome It makes perfect sense to me. It's the exact same % and won't change the game at all. It's a slightly different way of thinking. Now I jut need to tell new players to take the PS number + your armor + cover, roll under that. Done. It's easier to get people to add than subtract.
I'm pretty neutral on the suggested change to damage saves. As I never found it particularly difficult or confusing to explain to new players. If anything rolling lower than a target number is the more alien concept for most players.
If they had changed that, then that would have made more sense for most players. And a crit would always be on a 20.
I just hope if this change is true then Crits are now always on a 1, as a lot of their custom dice have the faction logo on a 1. Plus it makes it more consistent.
They could also make the 'above' twenty value something you can add to one for your crit target, so 23 is add 3 to one so you crit on 4 or less. That is easier maths to do than the current system.
It will be alien for a lot of existing players but I think it's easier to explain to newcomers and as CB are clearly focused on growing the player base I can see the logic.
I don't think you could have 2 crit values (a 1 and the Success Value), that makes it too powerful.
There won't be a change to any of the above 20 rolling with this mechanic. Shooting is near impossible to be 20 or above so it's only CC, which will be unchanged and doesn't impact how saving rolls work.
@@the_infinitygamer I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I mean 1 is always a crit, not the target value, so it works exactly the same except rolling a one is a crit.
@@the_infinitygamer looks like I called it! 🔥
You were spot on!
5:30 Probably like Games Workshop, they changed Wounds to Health as "wounds" sounds confusing for new players.
I honestly don't understand why "wounds" might be confusing. Every single wargame has things with capacity for taking damage (wounds for you and I), ive never heard anyone have an issue with that. It wasnt an issue in the '80's when every arcade machine gave your thing (pacman/ship/car whatever) 3 wounds. I remember being a 8 or 9 and not being confused by that concept. I fail to understand why now 40+ years later and computer games being even more ubiquitous than then why anyone ever would struggle with the concept that X takes Y amount of damage to kill.
Wounds did feel logical but maybe because we grew up with that being the agreed standard.
So these cards are probably just limited to the Starter sets. As you advance as a player, you transition across to Army Builder. That's a good idea. I've found with Malifaux, whenever they make a round of errata, it's pretty annoying to have to go get new cards for the affected minis. Not difficult - just annoying.
That seems to be the direction - cards for starter sets as they’re less likely to see tweaks due to their reduced data set.
What I think we’ll see is images added to army builder so printed lists have images as a way to keep people happy while enabling the flexibility of a digital platform.
Is the Japanese terrain shown in the video from Corvus Belli or from a 3rd party MDF?
Third party. A company called Warsenal.
Well, if it's this way, it's actually way more consistent with all other game mechanics. And it's a good thing!
Get out of here with your positivity ;)
Nice OSING work!
Haha thank you. Got to verify sources
I always figure out damage) armour this way anyhow. Easier for me. Alright slightly different: i total up the damage as normal (eg Shikami PH + MA = 14 + 2 = 16, minus ARM (2) = 14), then instead of thinking about rolling OVER the result (eg > 14), I subtract the result from 20 and know to roll equal to or less than it (eg, =< 6). I find this easy enough, but i suspect that making ARM + Cover saves positives will also reduce cognitive load. It's slightly easier for people to add numbers than to subtract, and Infinity's a high cognitive load game as-is, so this should be a good change.
P.S. the Shikami's PS=4 is: 20 - (PH (14) + MA L3 (2)), so the new damage levels - while looking weird as smaller numbers - work out to be the same. And it's great to not have to remember (ie, forget!) to add the MA bonuses!
Not sure on how I feel about Saves quite yet. I genuinely think I’m just misunderstanding how it works so I’m still open minded about it. Hope to see more content and explanation though!
Honestly I was staring at it for a solid ten minutes before my brain clicked. It wasn't until I ran through some practical examples that it fit into place.
@@the_infinitygamer appreciate that. In no way is this going to turn me off from the game, but I feel like I am going to need to play with it before I understand it. Thank you!
No problem!
saw these cards before the N5 announcement. The differences made me think they were code one, as I'm not familiar with their stats at all. Used them to speculate on JSA Vs PanO 2 player box day before the seminar, but didn't see N5 coming.
With this sort of change happening I can see now what it’s a new edition but I think you were in the same boat as the rest of us. N5 will forever be known as the surprise edition.
@@the_infinitygamer other thing as well, damage mechanic is exactly the same as all others in N4, it's just the wrong person is rolling the dice. If you look at it as a roll to wound, not a save roll it makes sense. And whilst sometimes confusing, I like the sometimes need high or low on your dice, devalues unbalanced dice.
@tnexus13 I like that fact that low rolling dice doesn’t mean a win because of the F2F mechanic. This should polish the diamond even further.
So, i have a question, with the new damage and armor rules, would we want PS/damage to be higher or lower for our weapons? If i understand correctly, you now want a lower damage number, as that reduces the likelihood of saves. Sorry if this is a dumb question, I am new to Infinity and was still learning the N4 rules. Now i get to learn the N5 changes.
Lower numbers are better. Your target (if hit successfully, has to roll below that number to avoid taking damage.
Data cards like that would be nice to have.
Ahopefully army builder gets images for courtesy lists
The cards were just for demo games and not the N5 profile.
Ahh got you
Honestly, the original save system is more infinit-ish for being intuitive
I don't know, the PH-6 for glue weapons always takes longer than it should to figure out.
@@the_infinitygamer Tahts because of it being an exeption, using normal stst as defensive. They tecnically could add an additional ph-6 defensive stat to profile, but decided not to overload it
True, by making one thing more simple you often make another more complicated and you don’t want rules bloat to manage it.
I always put it in my head as I roll for the oponent to FAIL their safe, but my brain is weird
Your brain might be handle the PH - saves from riotstoppers better than mine!
@@the_infinitygamer brain maybe, dice not really...
Ouch
That's actually what it's supposed to be. It's a perfectly normal roll with relatively simple-to-determine target number (damage - accumulated armor), just made by the "wrong" player.
Do we know if the models will be plastic or metal in the new Boxset ?
Great question to which there is only speculation.
So that means C1 is no more?
Looks that way - Carlos (the mighty) did seem to confirm this in the seminar
Damage would be perfectly in line with other rolls if it was a damage roll, not a save roll. Making it a defender roll inverted the entire process, but I believe that was deliberate because it wasn't enjoyable for defenders to have no part of the roll. While I appreciate the goal of making the defender roll like all other rolls, I probably have the weird annoyance now of it watering down PH's relevance as a stat. A minor thing, but after 15 years of Wolfy lads made me love PH quite a lot.
I remember 40k rolls where o was powerless to do anything but pick up units afterwards. At least I’m involved in my units dying in infinity.
@the_infinitygamer yeah, makes perfect psychological sense, just created this bump with the rules. My only problem with flipping the script is that it kinda devalues PH nsince damage will be more disassociated from the stat in melee based on profiles seen so far with damage as an attack stat instead. That's such a trivial Ariadna pride concern though that it's a non-starter
@TheDevolutionary it’s a valid point about PH being now only related to dodging effectively.
Where is Courage and stealth?
Only missing as this is a learner set. They were missing from Code One too.
Having a picture to help identify which mini is which is not exactly revolutionary and should have done from the start.
I agree 😀
So for damage, in a profile. Low damage would be better?
Yeah. The Shikami's damage value when he hits with his CCW is 16 in N4 (PH 14 + 2). Now it says PS = 4 on his card (which is 20-4, basically). So, PS = 0 would be equal to Dmg 20.
Exactly
The lack of Stealth gives me hope that they'll do something about the nonsense 'partial-stealth-fireteam' ARO nonsense
I wouldn’t get too excited as I can’t imagine stealth is getting dropped.
I find it wierd that people cannot understand how the wound mechanic is "hard."
It is very easy. You have taken a hit from your opponent. Roll a dice. The number face up on the dice, add the armour value and any cover, and if the total is higher than the weapons damage, you are alive.
Please explain how this is complicated arithmetic 🤔
That’s exactly how I used to work it out
@@the_infinitygamer this is how most, if not all, players work it out as stated in the rules.
It would be interesting to know why Corvus Belli wants to change it. Most people never had a problem with it.
Thank Bostria, I really do hope they change arm saves to be in line with the rest of the rolling. Its such an unnecessary speed bump for teaching new players.
Fully agree!
These are legit. 😉
Are you the source of one of the photo Ralf didn't take???
God your audio quality needs improved. Not sure if you need compression or what, but some post processing would really help... or you've already done some and went too far
Sadly that is with a lot of processing. If you could check out the audio on the sci fi terrain video (latest one) and let me know if that’s better. I used a new programme.
@@the_infinitygamer Yeah the new pipeline is much better, but it sounds like you're still over processing the audio in a weird way. I can't tell exactly how, but at least the new way doesn't sound as bad.
@walktxrn yeah the over processing is the AI tool adding a studio effect. It seems to be better than whatever I can do and the funds don’t yet allow for a sound engineer 😞
1:00 c'est jamais arrivé en ces 20 dernières années.
oh god, please please please give us profile cards! I *hate* using the app and I *hate* using some self-printed stuff and I *hate* using a f*cking thicc book. Just give me the cards!
Hahaha cards would make a lot of people happy. And they could be easily packaged in with the models.
Thank you for your videos, my friend, but please get a better mic. I had to stop watching after about 3 minutes because the noise, popping sounds and clipping were unbearable. :(
I agree I simply can’t figure out why my Rhode is so prone to popping. I hate it.
Takes most of me editing time making it passable.
@@the_infinitygamer apologies if you've already tried this, but you might have the receiving volume in the mic set too high, so the audio is peaking before it gets to the camera. Once the mics are on, try pressing the button on the top of the receiver until the "volume triangle" on it is at its lowest. Sounds simple but I got caught out by it myself
That’s an excellent suggestion, thank you! I’ll give that a try and on the next video. 😀
I have a thought about the new armor system. Combi rifles are currently damage 13. If I roll a 13 on the dice, I have failed the save because I didn't exceed the roll. New combi rifles are "Survival rating" 7. At a glance that looks like the damage is the same. But with the new system either its still different because you can't crit your "target number" A roll of 7 still fails like currently. OR if I need to roll 7 or less then combi rifles are "effectively" damage 12.