All the pros will want to argue this! I’m Not trying to convince the pros. I’m talking to someone who wants to scale their business and someone who wants to DIY their shower! My wife and I just did a live on our channel talking about 💸💸pricing projects 💸💸 if you are struggling with that!
I'm remodeling my bathroom and was wondering what type of white thin set are you using? I have used that gray looking thin set and is more like concrete and I DO NOT LIKE IT WHAT SO EVER!!!!
General contractor here. Absolutely agree. If the budget can bear i will absolutely spend on the outside guy to come in and do a perfect rock-solid mud pan. But having an in-house option my guys can competently install every time is great and gives my client more options. There will always be a place for fine craftsmanship, just as there is a place for efficiency, standardization, and systems thinking. The trades are so diminished that there is ample room for both without anyone feeling threatened. Running a profitable business needs both at different times.
@@gsp4prez for a full bathroom Reno I would say that is very reasonable, but I'd also demand client references before handing over that much hard earned money. Also make sure you get a payment schedule with specific progress milestones in writing...
@@natetuohy2615 No, it's more likely you will fuck it up if it's hard and you haven't done it before. And cost yourself a lot of money in the meantime. He's giving his opinion based on his experience. What's wrong with that?
as a DIY'er who will do this once maybe twice in my life while im young, i dont plan on getting enough experience to do the 'hard' so if someone invented something that can make the skill gap lower then i'll take it
@@jaimehewitt365 ok, so you pay 20x the amount of labor and materials instead? It’s just like anything, people take advantage of a skill/tools and essentially rape the average person for something they can do on their own. There’s a fine line, but people are horrible with trying to make a big profit of something you can do
I had never done a mud job as a woman and a newb I had no issues. I just studied a lot on every aspect of it and everything came out exactly as planned.
Idk why but I always have such a high level of respect for women who tackle massive DIY projects like a bathroom remodel. My daughter is about a year and a half and I’m really excited to teach her how to do her own projects like that as she’s growing up.
Lol I'm sorry but if you figure out how to do something and research, research and do more research, most stuff isn't "hard". It's just a man speaking... 😅
I’m a die hard mud guy. These foam products while good for diy’er are very much a substitute for craftsmanship. They are not even on the same planet as a well built mud pan.
I know a lot of people who are old heads who are out of work or underpaid because no one wants to hire them or pay them what they're worth. But the old men will out work most younger guys and their quality of work is so much better too. Also helpers a spoiled and soft these days.
Don’t listen to this guy. I did my first mud pan last year and it turned out great. I used a product called goof proof which gives you the slope for the drain.
@@jefflinnell8492 You have a valid point, but I don't use less PSI because I use 5k for the aggregates that help me to be 100% sure there won't be any cracks in the future by temperure changes and environment issues like humidity or movement. Furthermore the slab don't supass 4 inches with a slope to 2 or 3 to the drain system. So it's lighter than a cast iron bathtub.
Also at true 5000 psi relatively little water gets through-that said, a spec 5000 psi installed and cured in field will rarely test out in six months to 500ompsi, so when you spec 5000 I end up with 4000.
I laugh, because back in '87. No mind you 800 ft house 2 floor 1600' square feet that is. I jackhammered the floor, replaced the sewage system build a wall and door between the basement and garage of course I had to remove the existing wall, and put a spectacular bathroom in _ all in two weeks. The bathroom of course had a door as well and I put nice tile in the floor of the bathroom. I did have a friend help me for the pour and mix the concrete in the bathroom but I did the servicing pretty much an amateur but for the bathroom not very well done. In the hottest summer of the year. While I was doing double summer electives. At least 30 credits in the summer maybe more. But then again I'm a resilient bastard got a four-year degree in 2 years - and yep I use fireproof drywall for the garage.
The much more expensive employee is all fine and dandy as long as you have a customer willing to pay the much more expensive price. Not everyone has the money to throw around to afford that. You can’t expect a small business to dish out money the customer is unwilling to pay. SMH. Some people just don’t understand business. Maybe stick to what you know
Telling people what they should and shouldn’t do… If people never took on new challenges because something was deemed “pretty hard” they would never learn how to do anything useful. I’m sure glad previous generations of people didn’t share your stance because we would still be living in the Stone Age otherwise. We’re talking about a shower here, It’s not like you’re putting a man on the moon.
Exactly! This guy saying, "you should NEVER do a mud job" is total BS... It takes skill and I'm sure mistakes will be made but that's how someone develops their skills. Gotta start somewhere and you shouldn't listen to guys like this to deter you from trying...
I don’t disagree with you both, however I did a mud pan on my DIY shower and it’s no joke. Pre made shower pans were not around so I had no choice. I have great skills as I own a custom closet company and am a cabinet maker by trade. I would not do a mud pan again, especially if I had another option. If you screw up you have to chisel it out and start completely over.
Buddy. Not everyone out there has the money to do a traditional mud shower. Let ALONE if they fuck it up and it ends up damaging way more than they started with. He's not pandering to make people lazy, he's being sensical about how to go about a repair. If you can physical and fiscally do it, try mud. If not, that's what this is for. Nothing deep about it.
@@mrchain7 how the hell is a couple bags of dry mix so expensive and difficult? Put the liner in and don't cut it like a bonehead and slope the bed to the drain. It's not rocket surgery and it's not expensive. Those prefab pans are way more expensive.
@@invictusbp1prop143 Lmao, what a condescending mind you have. People are inexperienced, ergo, cant just "simply" cut exactly correct and lay a slope, let alone use a leveling tool. I like how you seemingly know the trade but then minimize it like it's so easy for everyone. That's called being ignorant, bud. Get some perspective, just because you think it's easy doesnt mean everyone else does. There is plenty you arent able to do that someone else would have no problem doing. Once you have experience interacting with people like an actual human you'll understand what I mean.
Prefabs won't work on uneven surfaces is the issue. If the floor is perfect, go for it. Uneven, then atleast add a self leveler. If not, a mud bed is a must....
Christopher Schuster I'll let u no when I have to tear it out you did2 like that what I'm saying is no it may not leak right away but over time it will bud and cause allot more water damage💯
Am a profesional tile installer and I always made the mud pan at the Job site never use prefabricated pans every job has is own measurements… and I can adjust the level and pitch of the pan how I want it
Not where I come from ,I'm ottawa canada , I charge both the same 400$ for both,I charge the day , that wld be my day, cuz I cldnt lay more until full setting of the cement , if I wanted more that day , I'd work on other shit
Yeah also not around here. The labor for the guy who knows how to do a mud pan well can run past $1k easily. These are just more of the manufacturer responses to an experience shortage across the board.
@@abdulmohrram3634 you charge 400 to a contractor as a sub or to a homeowner as a contractor? And what part of the country? 400 is in the ballpark for what Ive paid out as a gc for a sub to do a mud bed and liner on a shower that size.
@@Ninjump holy shit what state are you in? No way in hell would I pay a grand for a small bed and liner here in TX. But if you're going to do a prefab pan don't you still need a liner??? Never used one like that. I either do an old school mud bed or use a Schluter system. No leaks to come back and fix down the road that way. This looks like wet studs are in this guy's future. Not sure what the big deal is with this guy being against mud beds. It's not that hard.
@@invictusbp1prop143 CA, Bay Area. That's obviously not the price on every job, but say a decent, just below luxury home. Supply and Demand rules out here and with the housing market as hot as it is, specialty trades are making bank! Pre Covid this would be maybe a 650$ job
DIY guy here. Made my own pan with concrete. Yeah, it was a big job but 8 years later and it's leak free and solid as a rock. Couldn't be prouder. However, if someone was paying me to do it, yeah it would be hella expensive.
Concrete? Did you do a dry-pack and screed? If you put down wet concrete, I guarantee you there's mold underneath the entire thing. Leaks are not the most important part of a shower installation.
@MrDleef I did mine the same way, poured concrete, sloped properly, and water proofed with aquaguard before tiling. It's been 12 years, no leaks, and I have access from below to inspect it.
That's okay but I like the solid field of a mud shower pan. I had a plumber wanted to set my jacuzzi tub in foam insulation I said fuck you and set it in a big pile of fat mud now it's solid as a rock
The problem here, and I know you know this, is that you're charging just as much as I charged for the mud work. You're basically capturing the labor costs by selling your product that is basically shit by comparison.
@@bystander15 No... The manufacturer is taking a cut of the installer's labor pay.... Imagine the cost if the installer charged the same price to install this as they charge for a mud pan... it would never fly...! The worker gets screwed again... The customer gets a lessor product (not knowing any better) And the manufacturer rakes in a larger share of the pay....
@@bystander15btw I know you republicans hate criminals and thugs so why have trumps mugshot as if you’re proud of it and using street terms that only thugs use for your username ? Hypocrisy much? Or is everything just a silly ol game to you?
You misunderstood, he was talking about two different things. He was talking about the benefits of a prefab shower. The two he pointed out, is that a mud job is hard to DIY and a prefab is easier. It is also easier to train people to do a prefab.
Agree with your approach- I’ve never understood the traction of filtering years o dead cells and germs through mud s they can resize there for the life of the shower. Weep holes also eventually get clogged- bonded drain way to go with a WATERPROOF shower. But i have my doubts about thin set/foam board , esp if nt on a concrete slab or durability rock on a very robust floor assembly -i mean very robust- I haven’t tried the RRS systems/ board yet but it looks much former than any other, even Wedi. But when you are talking these systems, are they really cheaper than a good mud base ? I think poster has it right-pass teh savings along to client let’s client-let them decide. BUT too many GCs these days cheating for a traditional mud job and using less skilled labor to put in membranes,foam etc.
3 types of people. you forgot contractors who work / live in extremely high cost of living areas and therefore speed far outweighs product cost in terms of saving the client money.
The guy who can do mud has a fairly rare talent. He can and will do great work that is good for 50 plus years. However it you do general construction install a quality pan and use a quality mud board
Having installed both a Schluter and a Wedi shower, Wedi is wayyyyy easier and cost effective. Schluter nickle and dimes you with add-ons. Wedi is straight forward, cut and paste.
After seeing more and more of your vids I simply just wouldn’t hire you. You are contradicting, and show off some dangerous practices. Figure yourself out guy
as someone who has ZERO experience in doing any construction or renos. Just did my first mortar shower floor. If you're handy, it is EASY, it is a FAR CRY from "pretty hard". Put it this way, if you find it hard, you shouldn't be doing it in the first place, it's that easy. Plus... refab pans are wayyyy too expensive for just sloped waterproofed foam
I just find pre fab pans last longer than even my own mud jobs because my mud jobs can't account for house shifts over time where pans that are properly secured shift really well. It only makes sense.
@@OrangeCheekun 100s fully apprentice trained fully qualified maybe it's cause I'm from another country and when we build stuff we build it to last.. so quite possibly we don't use this method
Practice makes perfect. Lots of tutorials online now. Just use your head and triple check everything before applying anything permanent. Its fun to DIY.
Did DIY whole bathroom watching hours different youtube videos, asking construction friends how to do unclear stuff. Build it 2 years, but i managed. If i had 2 guys for labor, it would be done half the time. With basic expiriance, i can do the same job faster and cheaper now. And dont joke around, most of workers only passed craftsman highschool = its not hard to learn. Cost of materials, and choices of all the different way to build are the biggest problem.
hello now they sell custom all in one shower pans drain side flanges already as one..like a fiber glass pan..but then can be tiled or a finished product..done zero leaks forever.. lots of items.. me I'd pay extra for a all in one pan custom made.. hand made pans in my estimation suck... I've had 12 homes and I know exactly what I want.. and it ain't a leaky shower by going cheap... look how many videos on bad pans, even by a pro.. if that doesn't wake you up nothing will.
You just said it's very hard and easy to mess up but anybody can do it because it's quite simple!! Bro your that guy who shows up gives a price then up charges!! Also talks the customer into stuff they don't need! You give construction workers a bad name!!
Prefab pans are garbage. They fail constantly. The last 3 shower repairs have been because of these pans. The work was good otherwise, so I don't think it was the installers. Sure, it's easy and fast, but who cares if it's going to fail? I would rather have a well trained helper who knows how to dry pack a shower pan.
Use a Swanstone pan or equl, far more durable and professional than acrylic or fiberglass with gel coat the absolute bottom quality. You used to be able to buy preformed stone pans like a terrazzo pan. They were expensive but heavy like a cast iron tub and they wont squeak
I'm curious. I was an amateur/diy like 15 years ago. I did 1 mud pan with a liner. It came out pretty decent for my 1st time. Then I tried a schluter polystyrene pan with the water proof membrane over it and u never went back. If the pan isn't big enough or it's an odd size/ shape you put the pan in the center then mud around the outside edges, then water proof over the whole thing. I found it saved a bunch of time not only on the pan but also when I start laying tile. Now I own my own business remodeling bathrooms etc I've never had an issue, leak or anything. What is your reasoning for not trying a preformed pan there are more on the market now not just schluter. Is it you don't trust them? Have you heard about issues? Or is it just a can't teach an old dog new tricks. You just aren't interested in fixing something that isn't broken. Again I'm not being a dick I'm just curious about pros and cons of both and what your personal experiences have been. Thanks
@@daves984 ...Ive found after a few years, they all leak. Expansion and contraction, settlement over the years, waterproofing failures, pan flex and other issues, I use concrete with added waterproofing compound, and tile or mosaic on top, been back to jobs I've done twenty years ago, that are still 💯. Another problem I find, is few people are trained to install them correctly. But my biggest problem is price, as concrete and tile is just way faster and cheaper. Hi from South Africa 🍻
I think the reason for this controversy reflects, as noted, skill, and cognitive dissonance re costs. If quality experienced mud guy charged same as total , all in costs of prefab I think you’d still see a lot more mud work. That said, I beleiev you can get a rock solid shower with bonded system esp form boards like RSS or KBRS or wedi . If you use leveling compound and have dry rock solid sub floor . I prefer several coats of good waterproofing membrane rather than the sheets, just seems more foolproof. And I like the way the wall boards of wedi and laticrete doe tail into the base . I do not like the tendency of th systems to require weird origami and build up in the corners-wedi etc have a better approach there.
@@johnwhite2576 ...the difference is that concrete shower floors rarely wear out and need replacing. Plastic, fiberglass and waterproof coatings degrade with time faster than concrete
I follow you but no directional trowling on something that is adhered with thinset on wood. How long could that last adhered properly Idk just seems thag most products that are coming out have to undergo couple of years to see how functional they are.
Well the product you are using sucks and It will leak. I will only build led pan and only install led pans I put a 30 year warranty on all my shower. Do better my kid can build a Lego set to
I only know people who float their own. But this looks way easier. I wonder the longevity of it. Prefab is the future whether people like it or not. Just like crypto and block chain tech is the future like it or not.
Dry pack is not hard to do. With preformed pans you are kind of stuck with what they have. Dry pack, you can custom it to any size and bei g hard should never be a reason to throw to the side.
Yeah let me no how much water leaks out cause that's gonna leak💯🤣🤣 we lay a rubber linner down first it goes. About4 inches up on all sides of the wall then dry pack it
Cuz what he’s doing right now is NOT an actual mud pan job.. but doing it with actual mud is literally common sense.. which way too many people lack.. sooo much quicker than this foam crap
Mud all the way!!!! wait tell a fat guy cracks that shower pan spend money on this part save money somewhere else in your house that you can take of later floor paint lawn
All the pros will want to argue this! I’m
Not trying to convince the pros. I’m talking to someone who wants to scale their business and someone who wants to DIY their shower! My wife and I just did a live on our channel talking about 💸💸pricing projects 💸💸 if you are struggling with that!
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Do the weep holes work with this type of install? Looking to do this in a bathroom remodel for the first time.
I'm remodeling my bathroom and was wondering what type of white thin set are you using? I have used that gray looking thin set and is more like concrete and I DO NOT LIKE IT WHAT SO EVER!!!!
Pro here, I completely agree with you.
What brand is this?
General contractor here. Absolutely agree. If the budget can bear i will absolutely spend on the outside guy to come in and do a perfect rock-solid mud pan. But having an in-house option my guys can competently install every time is great and gives my client more options.
There will always be a place for fine craftsmanship, just as there is a place for efficiency, standardization, and systems thinking. The trades are so diminished that there is ample room for both without anyone feeling threatened. Running a profitable business needs both at different times.
Contractor around here (MN metro area) quoted us 13k for a 5x7 bathroom reno. Sound reasonable?
@@gsp4prez for a full bathroom Reno I would say that is very reasonable, but I'd also demand client references before handing over that much hard earned money. Also make sure you get a payment schedule with specific progress milestones in writing...
Mud pans are not hard if you've worked with concrete at all.
@@Baaliwooddude acting like a mudbed can't be knocked out in half a day. Who tf calls a mudbed hard?
@Epstein_Isn't_Dead you can do it wrong, but ya they aren't hard.
i hate ppl telling others to not do something because it's "hard"
They think what they do cant be done.
@@natetuohy2615 No, it's more likely you will fuck it up if it's hard and you haven't done it before. And cost yourself a lot of money in the meantime. He's giving his opinion based on his experience. What's wrong with that?
Deoend how capable the person is. Some people are incapable. Some are beyond capable.
as a DIY'er who will do this once maybe twice in my life while im young, i dont plan on getting enough experience to do the 'hard' so if someone invented something that can make the skill gap lower then i'll take it
@@jaimehewitt365 ok, so you pay 20x the amount of labor and materials instead? It’s just like anything, people take advantage of a skill/tools and essentially rape the average person for something they can do on their own. There’s a fine line, but people are horrible with trying to make a big profit of something you can do
I had never done a mud job as a woman and a newb I had no issues. I just studied a lot on every aspect of it and everything came out exactly as planned.
Idk why but I always have such a high level of respect for women who tackle massive DIY projects like a bathroom remodel.
My daughter is about a year and a half and I’m really excited to teach her how to do her own projects like that as she’s growing up.
Yeah I'm an electrician and carpenter. Everything is easier than my fellow trades claim
Lol I'm sorry but if you figure out how to do something and research, research and do more research, most stuff isn't "hard". It's just a man speaking... 😅
I’m a die hard mud guy. These foam products while good for diy’er are very much a substitute for craftsmanship. They are not even on the same planet as a well built mud pan.
The premade shower pans take a lot less time to install and still have waterproof warranties. If there was no need we wouldn't be talking
I rather do it myself than listen to anybody tell me i cant do it because its too hard to do yourself!
Only thing with that is drain hole location is not gonna be in the rite place on a custom shower. Im sure there are ways around that though
I know a lot of people who are old heads who are out of work or underpaid because no one wants to hire them or pay them what they're worth. But the old men will out work most younger guys and their quality of work is so much better too. Also helpers a spoiled and soft these days.
what kind of shower pan is that. most suppliers want $300to$400 for a shower pan.
Where is the liner in this shower?
Do you have the whole video on this ?
Don’t listen to this guy. I did my first mud pan last year and it turned out great. I used a product called goof proof which gives you the slope for the drain.
DIY'ers do your thing DONT LISTEN
That's a great system.
However, I use PVC liners and concrete of 5,000 psi.
5000 psi is a waste when the heaviest load will be 500 pounds and only a fraction of that will be per square inch.
@@jefflinnell8492 You have a valid point, but I don't use less PSI because I use 5k for the aggregates that help me to be 100% sure there won't be any cracks in the future by temperure changes and environment issues like humidity or movement.
Furthermore the slab don't supass 4 inches with a slope to 2 or 3 to the drain system.
So it's lighter than a cast iron bathtub.
Also at true 5000 psi relatively little water gets through-that said, a spec 5000 psi installed and cured in field will rarely test out in six months to 500ompsi, so when you spec 5000 I end up with 4000.
No cement board?
Forgot the shower blocking..
I’ve never seen someone use this sort of a drain with that sort of pan.
I laugh, because back in '87. No mind you 800 ft house 2 floor 1600' square feet that is. I jackhammered the floor, replaced the sewage system build a wall and door between the basement and garage of course I had to remove the existing wall, and put a spectacular bathroom in _ all in two weeks. The bathroom of course had a door as well and I put nice tile in the floor of the bathroom. I did have a friend help me for the pour and mix the concrete in the bathroom but I did the servicing pretty much an amateur but for the bathroom not very well done. In the hottest summer of the year. While I was doing double summer electives. At least 30 credits in the summer maybe more. But then again I'm a resilient bastard got a four-year degree in 2 years - and yep I use fireproof drywall for the garage.
Cool story
I float everything, last of a dying breed
Everything is hard if you never try.
So you're saying that you'd rather pay someone less to do something easier, but is more likely to be lower quality👀
Any pros here in the Atlanta area interested in installing a customer pan?
God forbid a “much more expensive employee”
The much more expensive employee is all fine and dandy as long as you have a customer willing to pay the much more expensive price. Not everyone has the money to throw around to afford that. You can’t expect a small business to dish out money the customer is unwilling to pay. SMH. Some people just don’t understand business. Maybe stick to what you know
@@waynewilliams5353 Thanks Wayne
Mud job is not hard and I want mud job up wall 12 inch up and to help seal the pan and wall at same time
super fast and it's a good thing
Telling people what they should and shouldn’t do… If people never took on new challenges because something was deemed “pretty hard” they would never learn how to do anything useful. I’m sure glad previous generations of people didn’t share your stance because we would still be living in the Stone Age otherwise. We’re talking about a shower here, It’s not like you’re putting a man on the moon.
Exactly!
This guy saying, "you should NEVER do a mud job" is total BS...
It takes skill and I'm sure mistakes will be made but that's how someone develops their skills.
Gotta start somewhere and you shouldn't listen to guys like this to deter you from trying...
I don’t disagree with you both, however I did a mud pan on my DIY shower and it’s no joke. Pre made shower pans were not around so I had no choice. I have great skills as I own a custom closet company and am a cabinet maker by trade. I would not do a mud pan again, especially if I had another option. If you screw up you have to chisel it out and start completely over.
Buddy. Not everyone out there has the money to do a traditional mud shower. Let ALONE if they fuck it up and it ends up damaging way more than they started with. He's not pandering to make people lazy, he's being sensical about how to go about a repair.
If you can physical and fiscally do it, try mud. If not, that's what this is for. Nothing deep about it.
@@mrchain7 how the hell is a couple bags of dry mix so expensive and difficult? Put the liner in and don't cut it like a bonehead and slope the bed to the drain. It's not rocket surgery and it's not expensive. Those prefab pans are way more expensive.
@@invictusbp1prop143 Lmao, what a condescending mind you have. People are inexperienced, ergo, cant just "simply" cut exactly correct and lay a slope, let alone use a leveling tool. I like how you seemingly know the trade but then minimize it like it's so easy for everyone. That's called being ignorant, bud. Get some perspective, just because you think it's easy doesnt mean everyone else does. There is plenty you arent able to do that someone else would have no problem doing. Once you have experience interacting with people like an actual human you'll understand what I mean.
I did mine. Loved the experience. 22 years later, I still love to shower-- and clean it. I feel very proud I did it.
Mud job is not that difficult, just a bit time consuming is all.
both
Prefabs won't work on uneven surfaces is the issue. If the floor is perfect, go for it. Uneven, then atleast add a self leveler. If not, a mud bed is a must....
And after a few months, every time you step on it it'll make a creaking noise from the unlevel ground.
I have done 102 mud jobs there is nothing better.
That's bullshit. I've done 2 homemade mud shower pans. Absolutely no issues!
Christopher Schuster I'll let u no when I have to tear it out you did2 like that what I'm saying is no it may not leak right away but over time it will bud and cause allot more water damage💯
It's not that hard . You won't have a problem if you prep right and get a hot mop lol.
Am a profesional tile installer and I always made the mud pan at the Job site never use prefabricated pans every job has is own measurements… and I can adjust the level and pitch of the pan how I want it
What is a mud pan? I’ve only worked jobs like this in Swedish and never heard it in English.
@@thatsmeinthepicone made with concrete mud.
These pre pitched shower pans actually cost at least double what the traditional pan and mud job cost.
Not where I come from ,I'm ottawa canada , I charge both the same 400$ for both,I charge the day , that wld be my day, cuz I cldnt lay more until full setting of the cement , if I wanted more that day , I'd work on other shit
Yeah also not around here. The labor for the guy who knows how to do a mud pan well can run past $1k easily. These are just more of the manufacturer responses to an experience shortage across the board.
@@abdulmohrram3634 you charge 400 to a contractor as a sub or to a homeowner as a contractor? And what part of the country? 400 is in the ballpark for what Ive paid out as a gc for a sub to do a mud bed and liner on a shower that size.
@@Ninjump holy shit what state are you in? No way in hell would I pay a grand for a small bed and liner here in TX. But if you're going to do a prefab pan don't you still need a liner??? Never used one like that. I either do an old school mud bed or use a Schluter system. No leaks to come back and fix down the road that way. This looks like wet studs are in this guy's future. Not sure what the big deal is with this guy being against mud beds. It's not that hard.
@@invictusbp1prop143 CA, Bay Area. That's obviously not the price on every job, but say a decent, just below luxury home. Supply and Demand rules out here and with the housing market as hot as it is, specialty trades are making bank! Pre Covid this would be maybe a 650$ job
I'll give you thumbs up for soaking the concrete before thinset.
That's not thinset, it's Type 1 and not appropriate for wet areas.
Lol@@newunderthesun7353
DIY guy here. Made my own pan with concrete. Yeah, it was a big job but 8 years later and it's leak free and solid as a rock. Couldn't be prouder. However, if someone was paying me to do it, yeah it would be hella expensive.
Concrete? Did you do a dry-pack and screed? If you put down wet concrete, I guarantee you there's mold underneath the entire thing. Leaks are not the most important part of a shower installation.
Concrete ain't waterproof
@@rkruts5667 but red guard is
@MrDleef I did mine the same way, poured concrete, sloped properly, and water proofed with aquaguard before tiling. It's been 12 years, no leaks, and I have access from below to inspect it.
Your floor is probably molded, bro. Might wanna check that out.
So you say DIY it's too hard but easy to train someone in? Doesn't make sense.
He meant that DIY a mud pan will be hard, but the prefab pan is easy for both DIY and easier to train someone in installing.
You; How stupid are your
this guy; yes
That's okay but I like the solid field of a mud shower pan. I had a plumber wanted to set my jacuzzi tub in foam insulation I said fuck you and set it in a big pile of fat mud now it's solid as a rock
The problem here, and I know you know this, is that you're charging just as much as I charged for the mud work. You're basically capturing the labor costs by selling your product that is basically shit by comparison.
less labor same price, makes easier money
@@bystander15 No... The manufacturer is taking a cut of the installer's labor pay....
Imagine the cost if the installer charged the same price to install this as they charge for a mud pan... it would never fly...!
The worker gets screwed again...
The customer gets a lessor product (not knowing any better)
And the manufacturer rakes in a larger share of the pay....
@@bystander15btw I know you republicans hate criminals and thugs so why have trumps mugshot as if you’re proud of it and using street terms that only thugs use for your username ? Hypocrisy much? Or is everything just a silly ol game to you?
Hot mop is bullet proof, kinda stinky for a few hours, but going out of "style" as building techniques advance.
Makes no sense. DIY is hard. I'm going to train someone because it's easy....
Tip: don't hire you.
You misunderstood, he was talking about two different things. He was talking about the benefits of a prefab shower. The two he pointed out, is that a mud job is hard to DIY and a prefab is easier. It is also easier to train people to do a prefab.
I’ll diy the whole bathroom, in half time, with twice the quality.
>the employee is going to be more expensive
Okay so instead of doing it the right way, you went the cheap way. I'm starting to sense a trend with you
What's wrong with pre fab?
@@intensitydigital entirely unrepairable, ecologically irresponsible, and it looks like shit
Bro he’s a one man army lol
@@greengoat5654 do you even know what the fuck you are talking about or are you talking out your ass?
@@glock1inthetop45 I'm a tradesman, I know what I'm talking about
"Don't DIY, it's pretty hard"
"Train someone else to do it. It's easy"
SMH
the mud job is hard and that training is hard this all in one thing is easy diy and it’s easy to train someone to do it
I think you missed the point :(
@@lifesucks5322mud beds are NOT difficult
@@epstein_isnt_dead7726more difficult that putting down a pan and start tiling..
Mud Is Fucking Easy
I've switched from doing a mud pan with liner to a mud pan with a bonded drain. It eliminates a day of work but it is a bit more expensive.
Agree with your approach- I’ve never understood the traction of filtering years o dead cells and germs through mud s they can resize there for the life of the shower. Weep holes also eventually get clogged- bonded drain way to go with a WATERPROOF shower. But i have my doubts about thin set/foam board , esp if nt on a concrete slab or durability rock on a very robust floor assembly -i mean very robust- I haven’t tried the RRS systems/ board yet but it looks much former than any other, even Wedi. But when you are talking these systems, are they really cheaper than a good mud base ? I think poster has it right-pass teh savings along to client let’s client-let them decide. BUT too many GCs these days cheating for a traditional mud job and using less skilled labor to put in membranes,foam etc.
@@johnwhite2576 I still do the mud pan but I use a bonded drain and membrane on top of the mud pan. Muds way cheaper than foam and stronger.
3 types of people. you forgot contractors who work / live in extremely high cost of living areas and therefore speed far outweighs product cost in terms of saving the client money.
Speed,?! I can mud a shower in 45 min.
Do you still require membrane to prevent leaks from the sides ?
Sides get a water proof tape installed with thinset
The guy who can do mud has a fairly rare talent. He can and will do great work that is good for 50 plus years. However it you do general construction install a quality pan and use a quality mud board
If u can't do a mud pan you shouldn't be installing a shower anyways.
Having installed both a Schluter and a Wedi shower, Wedi is wayyyyy easier and cost effective. Schluter nickle and dimes you with add-ons. Wedi is straight forward, cut and paste.
My guy outsourced it to a Mason with 30-40 years experience. We were both impressed with the final product
I do mud job in all my projects doesn’t matter if they’re bigger and smaller. I do it myself. There is a reason why 💯
Just want to hear and know how to. Not instill limitations.
After seeing more and more of your vids I simply just wouldn’t hire you. You are contradicting, and show off some dangerous practices. Figure yourself out guy
Not if the dimension doesn't fit that of the premade one
as someone who has ZERO experience in doing any construction or renos. Just did my first mortar shower floor. If you're handy, it is EASY, it is a FAR CRY from "pretty hard". Put it this way, if you find it hard, you shouldn't be doing it in the first place, it's that easy. Plus... refab pans are wayyyy too expensive for just sloped waterproofed foam
That is complete rubbish
I just find pre fab pans last longer than even my own mud jobs because my mud jobs can't account for house shifts over time where pans that are properly secured shift really well. It only makes sense.
Mud job was actually pretty easy.... just did one... i mean, it's hard work, but it's not HARD work
Been fitting bathrooms for nearly 20 years.. and still I don't understand what your talking about
Not a good sign 🤣 how many bathtub/showers have you installed?
@@OrangeCheekun 100s fully apprentice trained fully qualified maybe it's cause I'm from another country and when we build stuff we build it to last.. so quite possibly we don't use this method
@@evervol1 sorry we got money here,nobody likes looking at the same shit for 30 years.
@@dustinpomeroy8817 Hahaha suppose you don't have a choice 🤣😂🤣😂
Mud is fairly quick if you have experience. You still need waterproofing in the pan and wall. Its an option I guess not for me or my customers.
Practice makes perfect. Lots of tutorials online now. Just use your head and triple check everything before applying anything permanent. Its fun to DIY.
Did DIY whole bathroom watching hours different youtube videos, asking construction friends how to do unclear stuff. Build it 2 years, but i managed. If i had 2 guys for labor, it would be done half the time. With basic expiriance, i can do the same job faster and cheaper now. And dont joke around, most of workers only passed craftsman highschool = its not hard to learn. Cost of materials, and choices of all the different way to build are the biggest problem.
😂 this guy is a 🤡… doesn’t take a scientist guy…
What I really hate is when the contractor chooses to use shower pans because it's easier but then passes on the extra cost to the client.
Preach brother-ThATS what sucks about this industry-not the manufacturer’s or new products.
hello now they sell custom all in one shower pans drain side flanges already as one..like a fiber glass pan..but then can be tiled or a finished product..done zero leaks forever.. lots of items.. me I'd pay extra for a all in one pan custom made.. hand made pans in my estimation suck... I've had 12 homes and I know exactly what I want.. and it ain't a leaky shower by going cheap... look how many videos on bad pans, even by a pro.. if that doesn't wake you up nothing will.
No. Its level . Replace in 5-10. Have fun with mold. All these cheap options aren't what trades are about. Find yourself a professional
Pretty easy to call the hot mopper
Mud pans just promote mold for the homeowners and cost more in manhours than dropping a $600 KBRS pan
You just said it's very hard and easy to mess up but anybody can do it because it's quite simple!! Bro your that guy who shows up gives a price then up charges!! Also talks the customer into stuff they don't need! You give construction workers a bad name!!
Lol.... Do you'll pay $600.00 for a fake pan instead of $100 gor the materials needed for a mud pan?! Lol thats ridiculous.
Prefab pans are garbage. They fail constantly. The last 3 shower repairs have been because of these pans. The work was good otherwise, so I don't think it was the installers. Sure, it's easy and fast, but who cares if it's going to fail? I would rather have a well trained helper who knows how to dry pack a shower pan.
You: “Don’t do it yourself”
Also you: “Businesses can train people because it’s easy and anyone can do it.”
Great way to build credibility…..
Mud pans are not “hard” 🤣
Prefabs are easy yeah but a lot more money!
Just use a fiberglass/acrylic pan and be done with it, far far easier for the DIY'er and works just as well!
They look shit and they are also sooooo last millennium
Use a Swanstone pan or equl, far more durable and professional than acrylic or fiberglass with gel coat the absolute bottom quality. You used to be able to buy preformed stone pans like a terrazzo pan. They were expensive but heavy like a cast iron tub and they wont squeak
If you consider that to be very difficult, you need a new trade. My 14 year old son watched me do our master bath, then did the guest bath on his own.
Is it okay to DWI my butt hole space travel? because i think i did it but i didn’t know this was a complicated business
I've only ever done "mud jobs" in my 45 years as a plumber....🍻😎🇿🇦
I'm curious. I was an amateur/diy like 15 years ago. I did 1 mud pan with a liner. It came out pretty decent for my 1st time. Then I tried a schluter polystyrene pan with the water proof membrane over it and u never went back. If the pan isn't big enough or it's an odd size/ shape you put the pan in the center then mud around the outside edges, then water proof over the whole thing. I found it saved a bunch of time not only on the pan but also when I start laying tile. Now I own my own business remodeling bathrooms etc I've never had an issue, leak or anything. What is your reasoning for not trying a preformed pan there are more on the market now not just schluter. Is it you don't trust them? Have you heard about issues? Or is it just a can't teach an old dog new tricks. You just aren't interested in fixing something that isn't broken.
Again I'm not being a dick I'm just curious about pros and cons of both and what your personal experiences have been.
Thanks
@@daves984 ...Ive found after a few years, they all leak.
Expansion and contraction, settlement over the years, waterproofing failures, pan flex and other issues, I use concrete with added waterproofing compound, and tile or mosaic on top, been back to jobs I've done twenty years ago, that are still 💯.
Another problem I find, is few people are trained to install them correctly.
But my biggest problem is price, as concrete and tile is just way faster and cheaper.
Hi from South Africa 🍻
I think the reason for this controversy reflects, as noted, skill, and cognitive dissonance re costs. If quality experienced mud guy charged same as total , all in costs of prefab I think you’d still see a lot more mud work. That said, I beleiev you can get a rock solid shower with bonded system esp form boards like RSS or KBRS or wedi . If you use leveling compound and have dry rock solid sub floor . I prefer several coats of good waterproofing membrane rather than the sheets, just seems more foolproof. And I like the way the wall boards of wedi and laticrete doe tail into the base . I do not like the tendency of th systems to require weird origami and build up in the corners-wedi etc have a better approach there.
@@johnwhite2576 ...the difference is that concrete shower floors rarely wear out and need replacing. Plastic, fiberglass and waterproof coatings degrade with time faster than concrete
@@johnwhite2576 ....and we use brick to build with in my country, not wood and sheetrock.
NOTHING you do is “Hard”! Nor is it rocket science. You actually failed with this vid.
Mud shower pans aren’t that hard. If hiring a kid might not be advisable,but actually pretty simple
I'm just curious about that. Double seepage drain normal. The Pan allows the water to weep. How does that work
I follow you but no directional trowling on something that is adhered with thinset on wood. How long could that last adhered properly
Idk just seems thag most products that are coming out have to undergo couple of years to see how functional they are.
Well the product you are using sucks and It will leak. I will only build led pan and only install led pans I put a 30 year warranty on all my shower. Do better my kid can build a Lego set to
I only know people who float their own. But this looks way easier. I wonder the longevity of it. Prefab is the future whether people like it or not. Just like crypto and block chain tech is the future like it or not.
You are misleading people. You probably messed up yourself and lowering others by saying never do a mud job!!!!
Dry pack is not hard to do. With preformed pans you are kind of stuck with what they have. Dry pack, you can custom it to any size and bei g hard should never be a reason to throw to the side.
Yeah let me no how much water leaks out cause that's gonna leak💯🤣🤣 we lay a rubber linner down first it goes. About4 inches up on all sides of the wall then dry pack it
True
The mortar wasn't done right in the video. Just saying that as someone who is a DIYer and actually follows the instructions.
On my opinion the best way to do shower pan is the hot mooe..I lay tile for 35 years here at Los Angeles California..not othe way
“Don’t try to do mud jobs yourself you will mess it up”
2 seconds pass
“It’s really easy to train on and pretty much anybody can do it”
Yes he’s talking about two different things moron
Cuz what he’s doing right now is NOT an actual mud pan job.. but doing it with actual mud is literally common sense.. which way too many people lack.. sooo much quicker than this foam crap
Who do Americans always do shortcuts? Spend the time to calculate and.cut the correct fall from proper tiles.
If the mud pan was so perfect the prefab polystyrene Schluter and the like would not be in the marketplace.
The lines have to go WIDTH and definitely not length or have a lovely swirl in it. The air needs to escape so what you've done is trap the air.
Foam pan 600 bucks material
Mud pan 150 materials you want me to do your mud pans for 600 a pop let me know
Mud all the way!!!! wait tell a fat guy cracks that shower pan spend money on this part save money somewhere else in your house that you can take of later floor paint lawn
Don't do it yourself and save money. Hire me. It's too hard for you. Only I know how to do it right.
clients are cheap, i usually give them whatever their budget allows
Mud jobs are not hard they just take a while to make sure you do it right, ive been mudding with my mom since i was like 9
I disagree. Those pans can be a pain in the ass. Floating mud is mud is not that hard and it’s a way better finished product
What about if we need a custom size that the manufacturer doesn’t supply? Mud pan it is
Mute point since there is no rubber liner going up the sides of the walls in this video