Who Exactly is the Space Jockey (Possibly not an Engineer) - Alien Universe Explained
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I prefer the pilot to be something old, extinct and alien, not a human progenitor.
I agree it make sense.
Also I do not think that the Aliens are man made.
@@randomusernameCallin I think the Xenomorphs should be something far too powerful and alien for the humans to understand and control. They should be the reason the Pilots race is extinct and now it's the humans turn.
@@rojaws1183 That is true. It added to the universe and get away from the human hating ideal that man made them
Also it make sense from everything but the new movies that Xenomorphs are old. Also I say the black ooze come from face hugers.
If you look at the teeth of the Space Jockey, you can see jaws and a tongue.
Which of course the Engineer helmets in Prometheus don't have at all.
Which proves that the Space Jockey isn't an Engineer.
@SonofEyeaboveall Effoff Also in Aliens: Apocalypse - The Destroying Angels if I recall correctly.
I've always liked the idea that the derelict isn't just thousands, but millions of years old, and that this lonely, quiet, desolate place is still just as deadly, and that perhaps long after humans have faded, a completely different species might stumble across the same quiet corner of the galaxy.
I like the mystery of the pilot. I don't think it's very satisfying to have it be an engineer
i think its still cool its an ancient engineer that suffered something horrific
@@ProjectACHERON it could possibly be a mala'kak
@@jalpro7997 Mala'kak are the engineers/space jockeys
@@ProjectACHERON By "ancient engineer" do you mean a race of living Michelangelo sculptures? Whilst I like these giant Michelangelo beings, I much prefered the elephantine being that Giger created based on Dan O'Bannon's orginal concept rather than where Scott took it for Prometheus.
The reason the stuff doesn't match up is because Ridley Scott was so determined to make the Space Jockey a guy in a suit instead of another completely alien species that was fossilized, he didn't care about continuity.
Yes he does , this space jockey could be a mutation engineer or david becomes a space jockey or there is a deleted scene in the Prometheus (2012) when david activate the hologram at the translation they said there is another engineer crash on lv426 , it macth up perfectly and indeed a prequel to Alien (1979).
Yep; as much as I LOVE Ridley for his esthetic sense that made Alien what it is -- HE didn't originate Giger's vision but did FIGHT Fox honchos for it -- Ridley blew it with his visual retconning on Prometheus and Covenant.
@@RD-lt3ht Did you also saw david drawing of hid experiment his subject and you can see shaw corps but hen you compare hr giger art the lady they look the same , they're hidden details of hr giger design in the film and that's very honor of his work.
@@whocares8014 Yes, I know that but the "cosmic horror" aspect -- the Lovecraft element, meaning an "unknowable" aspect -- of the mythos is essentially watered down by this idea of just another "rationally-understandable" and even "relatable", essentially HUMAN species, having created -- what is essentially -- a bio-weapon-BUG. For the record, I'm still entertained by both Prometheus and Covenant even though I wish Ridley had made other choices; I RESPECT your defence of your own tastes.❤️
@@RD-lt3ht perfectly stated. I always felt the best part of the Alien was that who the hell know's what pure evil it came from!
Remember when Dallas and Lambert were examining the being, Dallas states "It looks like it's grown right out of the chair" then mentions "The bones are bent outwards, like something exploded from inside", he also remarked how the bones were fossilized, this creature was flesh and bone, not a suit, the being I believe was grown along with the rest of the ship, a bit like a mechanical ship or probe in the future, you would build in an "AI" computer to fly it, perhaps this species grew the ship with everything you see, and the beings sole purpose was flying that ship as a living extension of itself? Whatever humans can imagine an alien species being like, we always tend to run comparisons to our own species, however a species that's evolved on a different world with a different atmosphere would be impossible to comprehend, it would be the most Alien thing ever witnessed.
Nice to see someone who actually understands what the original concept was all about. For starters the whole theme of Gigers artwork is the fusion of organic life with technology.
The space jockey was fuzed together in a symbiotic relationship with the control device it operated and the ship in general. It had no legs. It didn't slide in out of that acceleration couch like it was getting into or out of a hot bath. It was a permanent part of the ship. The Nostromo had a central computer MUTHR which controlled the ship. Or Mother as the crew called it.
The space jockey serves basically the same purpose only its a much more highly advanced form of technology. An actual living computer if you will.
As Giger said of the space jockey painting... ''It has grown into or perhaps out of the chair. And is totally integrated into the machine it operates.
One things for sure. It isn't some funky spacesuit with an angry WWE wrestler inside it.
that's the genius of it, but why not spoil it for a cash grab?
I think it was mentioned either in the original concept, or one of the comics, whatever creature that burst out from this Space Jockey was a special breed of Xenomorph. Probably big, too.
@@nitrokid That's the impression I got. The fact that large alien creature had a hole through it's chest meant a xeno hatched out of it too, and if the jockey was that large imagine how big that xeno must've been..
@@ADB696 agree: Scott's attempt to retcon the space jockey as a spacesuit with the engineer inside of it doomed Prometheus from the start to be a failure. What a way to ruin the original.
Never bought the space jockey is an engineer. Engineers are larger than humans, but the space jockey is even larger. A lot. It's fucking huge.
I do not think the Engineers were even a thought when the first 2 Alien movies were made.
They couldn't get a 12 foot actor
@@jothishprabu8 Then build a 15 foot tall puppet animatronic. They did it for the dinosaurs in the original jurassic park movies before everything became a stupid CGI clusterf*ck.
@@sonofeyeabovealleffoff5462 or just use camera tricks like in LOTR to make the actor look taller
Don’t understand why you can’t understand that evolution exists. There were millennia between the jockey and origin of the humans. Large bodies require more energy and resources so evolution would cause bodies to shrink over time, especially when exposed to space.
You put more thought into this than Ridley Scott.
But there is a reason Sir Ridley Scott has a brilliant mind behind the mystery.
@SonofEyeaboveall Effoff Without him , there won't be an Alien movie.
@@whocares8014 Wrong. Just plain wrong.
There always be a reason then you guys know it.
Thanks, Ridley Scott.
I always thought of the Space Jockey as some kind of cyborg fused with the "chair" in which he's sitting and as Giger said: "totally integrated in the function he performs". He and the ship are the products of an incredibly ancient and advanced (and most probably extinct) alien race that bred its technological creations as biomechanical living beings. The space ship itself looks organic and "skeletonized" by the millennia of abandonment and decay. You can even see irregular "veins" on the exterior surface of the ship. On the inside corridors you can clearly see bones fused with mechanical elements. The Space Jockey and the ship were originally symbiotic biomechanical beings. The whole concept of the engineers is BS.
I had to imagine what it looked like with meat on those bones. Wish I didn't do that. It's not pretty.
That would make it more likely that the Xenomorph was a creation of theirs.
Who shitted in your cheerios
@@supportmalphite8769 nobody, but i bet your mom did in yours. 🙂
Or the engineers are a creation of the space jockeys.
Jockeys: Titans
Engineers: Olympians
Humans:Mortals
Xenomorphs: Creatures of Tartarus
nice comparison!
Thanks for the video :) 😀
Nice thought actually!
And Predators?
Your welcome, and yeah they have there part to play too
I really like this, and honestly, it makes sense. The frozen look of pain and horror on the jockey's remains is evidence enough that it wasn't just a bio-suit, let alone the massive size difference.
Couldn't agree more
I believe that the Space Jockey was bioengineered to be immune to the 'alien', specifically to pilot a ship filled with them as an ultimate deterrence weapon. That's why his skull joins with his sternum - to prevent the 'alien' from attaching. Space Jockey was bioengineered to do one job, and could not do anything else - being fused to the chair. Something went wrong, though - the 'alien' adapted, and was able to infect him anyway. Knowing he was going to die, he put his ship down on a primordial planet and set a warning beacon to keep everyone away.
I like this explanation. One thing that would still bug me though is how the Nostromo's equipment was still able to tell that it was a warning beacon. Is it ever explained how exactly they were able to determine it was a warning to not go there or where the signal even came from exactly?
@@Ghosthound_X I just assumed that space fairing species would keep track of what was an SOS and what was a Danger Danger signal from every species they encountered. They could have added this one to their database by meeting a species that knew the signal without meeting the species that used it. Anyway, I've also always assumed that they were sent their on purpose - that the company knew about the location, that it was dangerous, and just decided to put them on that course to see what came of it without being spotted heading there with a big military convoy.
@@HeatherSpoonheim Because I was thinking that it would have been cool if we had gotten to see David's war against the Engineers in Alien Awakening that it would have ended with the human protagonist setting off that beacon in the derelict on LV 426 like the story was rumored to go into the planet finally. That would have been a cool way to tie everything together. But the derelict was on LV426 for thousands of years right?
@@Ghosthound_X You are getting into details and extended materials that are beyond my knowledge of the franchise. I really only know Alien and Aliens from the 80's. (was the first one in the 70's?) That sounds really cool, though, to have our relationship with them be some sort of ouroboros loop.
@@HeatherSpoonheim Yes I'm talking about the derelict in the 79 original. I can't remember if it's mentioned in the movie or where it's mentioned how long the ship was crashed there.
The Space Jockey intrigues me. The Engineer doesn't.
i hope they open up the space jokey's helmet and discover the remains of a white unicorn...
That isn't a helmet, look at the lower jaw.
It is actually the skull. You can see teeth and a tongue. Which the Engineer's helmets don't have.
It could be a mutation engineer or david become the spacejockey , it's possible.
Me too
That’s a hell of a reference 👏
@@TheKaijuGamer_ Just a different design, the same as different uniforms from different eras..
The Alien franchise was never conceived as such by the original story tellers or by Scott. It was a stand alone story that very successfully delivered on the concept of something "alien". This was the context for the Space Jockey; the story tellers never expected to be required to deliver an explicit rationale for it; it was just something "alien" and unexplained. The initial run of sequels were just cashing in on the success of the original film; even the much lauded "Aliens", which is a very fine piece of filmmaking and told a cracking story, was a bit creaky as a sequel, losing the "alienness" in favour of a fast paced conflict story. The Prometheus and Covenant strands are a clumsy attempt to revisit the alien (i.e. strange and other worldly) context of the original film, and to retrospectively construct a rationale for what was portrayed, not least due to pressure from the fans, who want to believe that there is such a well-formed rationale that is waiting to be revealed. There isn't, and so whatever comes next (if , indeed, there something to come next) may (or may not) be a good piece of film making and of story telling, but it will be at best a clumsy retro-fitted clarification and re-visioning of the nature of the Space Jockey and other aspects of the alien context of the original.
Yep, the whole “warning” message emitted by the derelict ship wrecks the whole notion of a “WMD” species created by the engineers to wipe out humanity.
These movies might not be masterpieces but they Are way better than modern so called movies that are being shat out today
If anything, I just wish for the franchise to wipe the slate clean and start from the beginning again.
I couldn’t agree less
Thank god someone finally has a brain lol. These people act as if this shit is real and that it needs to be picture perfect lore. It also doesn’t help that people tend to think that what they think is right and shoehorn it into ideas like this.
Here’s a simple solution; space jockey is a really old version of the engineers. Evolution shrunk their massive bodies to preserve energy. I mean even us humans look different than only a few hundred thousand years ago, let alone an alien species over millennia.
The engineers could’ve even ENGINEERED themselves as a whole to become more survivable. They seemed physically fit.
In the end it doesn’t really matter. The Jockey isn’t ever really touched on regardless.
If you look closely at the mouth, there are teeth and a tongue.
You can even see the lower jaw, meaning that we're actually looking at the skull and not a helmet. There's signs of mummification and fossilization which of course a suit wouldn't do.
The Derelict in the 1979 film is different from the one from Prometheus. The 1979 Derelict is more organic, the outside of the ship is more yellowish in color, if it was metal, it would have been reddish and brownish.
The Derelict in Prometheus you can TELL is more mechanical because of the color and texture.
In the novelization, the pilot was more of an elephantine humanoid instead of a tall albino humanoid. Engineers were never said to be 13 feet. They were only from 8-9 feet, the pilot in Alien 1979 was larger, probably 18 feet. There's even a prop of the Space Jockey was 18 feet.
You can also see the difference by the size of the opening where the crew of the Nostromo entered, it is far too large for an Engineer.
Edit: Apologies, I meant to say that the Space Jockeys were shown in one of the other novels and not the original Alien novel. I also forgot to mention that the Engineers based their technology off another organism much like how we based our technology off wild animals and natural designs. Meaning that Engineers did indeed base their technology off another race.
They don’t find the pilot in the novelization. Which is funny, because in the novelization of ALIENS Ripley says they did. Alan Dean Foster wrote both, funny he didn’t remember that lol.
In the original script STAR BEAST the human crew find the derelict’s pilot, but this was pre Giger.
SonofEyeaboveall Effoff Exactly right. I always wondered why.
@@anthonysvokos2697
Not the Alien novelization, it's another novel. Forgot which one because I am stupid.
@SonofEyeaboveall Effoff
No not that novel, it's another one. Where if I remember correctly they find a living individual or are told that they once existed at some point.
In one of the novels it is stated that the Space Jockeys were elephantine humanoids that were very tall. Sorry if I said Alien 1979 novel, when I meant another novel.
TheKaijuGamer_2003 Lol I gotcha. That happens to me too. If you ever remember the title of it let me know I’d love to read it, it sounds good.
I mean it could just be 30+ years of continuity differences because at the end of the day it is a movie.
I really like the theory that Space Jokey was an more ancient species than the engineers, whom they respected to the point of making their technology and suits in the image of the jokey, and the Space Jokey species was the one that created the xenomorph, hence why the image of one is in Prometheus. David simply made his own version of the Xenomorph in the prequels, I think that theory should make everyone happy since now prequels can be enjoyed for what they are the mystery of the Space Jokey from Alien remains intact.
I think Prometheus misses everything that ALIEN was visually suggesting with the Space Jockey Pilot symbolism - the disturbing possibilities of deep space extraterrestrial bio-machine symbionts: ancient organisms living in symbiosis with another. Which the ALIEN xenomorph represents so well in its chest bursting gestation horror. Prometheus just ignores all the grotesque mystery of the fossilised bio-mechanical fused Space Jockey Pilot, so as to simply shoehorn in their LAME abstract concept of 'planetary life seeding Engineers' in elephantine space suits! ... errgh.
But the alien was never shown to be able to pilot a ship
Tell me you’re an idiot without telling me you’re an idiot lol
@@TheSCPStudio
Why don't you slip into something more comfortable, like a coma.
@@TheSCPStudioIn the original film, Dallas even says "it looks like it grew out of the chair". And H.R. giger was known for his bio-mechanical fused creations. Not to mention the alien has metal teeth. The space jockey was part of the ship. Tell me you've never seen the original or paid attention without telling me lol.
When I watched Prometheus, I was “oh okay” at first, then I was like “huh?”
Thank you for this video. The space jockey has always fascinated me since I first saw this scene as a child. It’s my favourite scene from the whole franchise. It just provoked the idea in my mind that there is most likely, out there somewhere, a long forgotten planet, in a dark and still corner of the an unknown part of the universe, that hasn’t had a foot step on it for thousands or millions of years. Some fossilised remains and ruins of a once technological advanced race, lay in wait on a dark planet, just like space jockey here. The 1970s, 80s films captured this atmosphere so much better than recent films.
I’ve never seen Prometheus, but from the clips it kind of ruins the mystery for me. It appears from the feedback, that Ridley didn’t really do much favours for us space jockey lovers. The Alien franchise for me, stops at the beautiful masterpiece that is Alien 3 (I know I’m in the minority there but I love it. Alien and Alien 3 for me). I don’t need all those spin offs and prequels killing the mystery of the routes and origins. The space jockey and his race are better left a mystery for me. Provoking more wonder and daydreaming.
Very well written. I like the way you think.
@@anthonysvokos2697 some franchises get spoiled by too much revelation. I liked the mystery here. I don’t want to know where he came from. The space jockey should’ve stayed a secret to keep us thinking. But that’s the beauty of film. I can choose to not watch the spin offs and prequels and keep the mystery :)
Don't ever watch them. Keep your love for it as it is. I watched it today and i still feel let down lol
@@IsaacJ143 yeah that’s how I intend to keep it lpl
What is wrong with people lmao. So weird over a fictional story. Forming opinions without even watching something and then using OTHERS opinions as a basis of your own on top of that.
It’s some pathetic and sad behavior tbh. Complete inability to think critically or for yourself.
The whole ‘keeping it a mystery’ thing is just a way for you to cope with having terrible opinions. You’re one of those people who can’t accept change because it defiles your original memories in your mind. No story is really better off with less revelation unless you want to preserve your weird child like nostalgia.
It’s a MASSIVE issue in todays world though so at least you’re not alone in your broken brain.
The space jockey is way much larger than the engineer.
The space jockey looks to be around 14-15 ft tall while the engineer is like 8-9
Ridley completely ruined the sense of scale of the jockey with the prequels man
When there's a forty year gap between movies, back stories are not usually consistent...
Yes exactly that
To me, what made the most sense was he was just some unfortunate alien who got fertilized and died in his ship... I hated the effort to tie him to humans
We can’t compare the species having any different individual origins. Plain and simple Ridley Scott EfD Up big time
It's simple. Ridley Scott just changed things because he's arrogant and doesn't give a shit about a canon that makes sense.
Facts! I hope that in the future his latest work is made null & void & someone does this all over bcuz I hate the idea of the humanoid Engineers & David creating the xenomorphs. That's just a huge lack of creativity.
@@shallah777 I think you may actually get what you wish for in the upcoming Noah Hawley Alien Tv series. It's rumored that will retcon Ridley's Alien movies altogether, and only connect subtly to the original 1979 Film.
@@RaikenXion I liked Aliens also but after that everything went downhill
Just done for the income. His original work on Blade Runner and Alien was the peak of his career.
I suppse
Discrepancies are down to laziness of film people. There. Mystery solved.
It's why they keep making Halloween films why does he do what does? Because. The end. LAME.
Stick to superhero flicks
Nah. Theory debunked.
@@aliray1165 hardly.
@@GODCONVOYPRIME yes
In the comic books the space jockey is a confirmed different race.
Yeah most of those comics are non canon
It’s odd that the craft is called a juggernaut when the only contact we’ve had with it is either stationary or eating shit....
I believe the space jockey was incorporated into the derelict. Going with HR giger's biomechanoid aesthetic.
As I recall, the "Space Jockey" was a drawing by HR Giger which predated ALien the Movie. It was in one of his art-books and also a book on fictional alien space craft as well.
Your right, I’m talking about the in universe only though
Dallas is essentially a truck driver. If he was an archeologist, paleontologist or at this point a xenobiologist I would be more inclined to accept his initial observations as fact.
yeah absolutely!
A space jockey himself.
Refer to the novelisation to Alien: Covenant for an additional point to add to your notes. David talks about eggs which he DIDN'T create but rather found.
The spacejockey is likely a member of the race that once ruled this galaxy - and the engineers were their slaves.
Shaws line "And who made them?" isnt just a coincidence, its a clue that they were created - Nothing is coincidental with Ridley Scott, he puts clues everywhere.
The wall mural for example shows domination of a creature...a symbol to how they overthrew the ancient gods.
And the movie title refers to the classical mythos of "stealing fire from the gods" - Its likely the engineers stole the fire(mutagen) and used it to revolt.
FINALLY SOMEONE WITH THE SAME THEIR WAY AS ME😭
Nah that's bullshit, Engineers and Space Jockeys are the same species, even Ridley Scott confirmed it, it was just because of the limitations of the CGI at the time that gave the impression that they were bigger.
@@guruxara7994 They weren't the same, dude. There's comics about the Space Jockies, and how they developed hatred for the Xenomorph, so rather than just killing the Xenomorph as they usually did, if they came into contact with them, they decided to study it before studying it became an idea for them, they all had a counsel meeting in one of their spacecrafts, and were tired of eradicating the Xenomorph, they had issues into wiping them out because of human archeologist who travelled to their world, they had contacts with humans before, but didn't inform them about the infestation, they felt it was too much of a hassle to explain the humans about the Xenomorph crisis because it was just going to lead to the humans to more questions.
@syntaxed2
Right ya are, my dude.
The biology of the Engineer is not at all like the biology of the Space Jockey in the original alien
Honestly, it would’ve made more sense if the jockey was just an intergalactic trucker like the guys on the Nostromo.
I mean yeah, in some ways but I don’t necessarily mind the path they have take.
Good video. But I remember reading a short novel in the 90s that said the jockey was a different species and that the Predators were even scared of them.
Well the ALIEN RPG does seem to suggest this as well.
@@ProjectACHERON awesome! I wonder why people feel the urge to turn away from source material. Thanks for making me feel better about the whole thing 😆
I hate the whole "Engineer" & David creating the xenomorphs idea.
It still is not David created the Xenomorphs, i wish alot of fans would realize this. Look, i know Covenant heavily eludes to that, but Ridley is just being ambiguous here. If you read the Covenant novel, it goes into abit more detail, revealing that there was atleast one single Xeno Egg on that Engineer Colony/planet before David even arrived there with Shaw in their Juggernaut ship.
If your a sci fi fan at all you simply need to have a open-mind and understand what exactly David managed to do. But if you're just a casual, mainstream movie goer who has watched these movies just like you would watch any other movie, and not truly be invested you're not going to be able to understand.
I'll put it as briefly as i can, what David did was basically very similar to what John Hammond did with his Dinos in the Jurassic Park story. Thats it in a nutshell.
@@RaikenXion ok interesting but I what of the engineers? I don't like the idea of that mysterious Space Jockey that I always wondered about as a child turns out to be nothing but an oversized man. I also don't like the idea that these engineers made life on earth etc. They should be totally alien in appearance & have nothing at all to do with earth. Giving them a connection to earth cheapens the storyline.
@@shallah777 Does it though? Looking into the bigger picture of things Earth can be thought of as just one planet out of many that the Engineers have seeded perhaps, just a cog in the wheel of their ultimate goal. Also i don't think they actually created life on Earth, because i remember in the opening-prologue of Prometheus that mysterious planet (if it even is Earth) seemed to show alot of green, Cambrian life already. I think that sacrificial Engineer who drank the mutagen falling into the waterfall, basically helped hasten evolution on the planet.
When we talk about the idea of something being "alien" in it's appearance and form, we really need to start opening our minds more and thinking alittle deeper, because where the iconic and mysterious "Space Jockey" is concerned, hes always just looked very "humanoid" to me, he appears to have two arms, two hands and five sets of fingers, with a big head on-top of shoulders; all characteristics of the Bipedal Human Being form to me, not very "alien in appearance" imo.
So it's always baffled me somewhat that alot of Alien fans complain about the Engineers basically amounting to just being a "man" in a suit, but even if we consider the Space Jockey in that chair to be somekind of skeletal or fossilized form, it's still essentially a "humanoid" figure at end of the day.
It honestly never bothered me that Engineers may be connected to Earth in some way, cause i rather like the idea that we could have became quite insignificant to the Engineers, and that eventually they just wanted to wipe us out; in the same way a scientist grows bacteria in his pietri-dish, then disposes of it after a while, when his results don't turn out the way he expected.
@@RaikenXion yes the Space Jockey has 2 arms etc but so do the xenomorphs yet they don't appear humanoid like the Engineers. The Space Jockey, in my opinion, shouldn't resemble anything human (albeit the arms, legs, etc). The idea of the Engineers having anything to do with earth cheapens the mystery to me. I remember watching Alien back in the early 80s as a child & I was more interested in the fossilized Space Jockey than I was the xenomorph. It was this huge fossilized alien creature so far from earth that had probably been dead for millions of years now it turns out they're just giant "humans" that have a connection to earth. Talk about a big let down.
@@shallah777 The idea with Xenomorphs is that they will take on the characteristics of whatever lifeform/host they are born from. In the movie's case it's always happened to be Human Beings.
As for the Earth Connection it's only subtly connected, and tbh there always was a connection to earth anyway because even the original writers envisioned that the Space Jockey's ship was a bomber originally headed to earth. So all Ridley Scott did there was follow up on that idea, also in his two Alien Prequels Ridley Scott has actually still kept the Alien itself completely separate from Earth in ALL his movies, and in the canon of his Prometheus, Covenant and ALIEN 1979, all the people on Earth have never even known anything about the Engineers, nor have they themselves gone back to Earth, cause Shaw and Janek thwarted the last surviving Engineer on LV-223.
If you're really bothered by the antagonists of Alien having anykind of connection to Planet Earth and that spoils or lets down the whole mystery for you; then you should really now look at what Fargo/Legion creator Noah Hawley is doing as we speak, cause his new ALIEN Tv Series on Hulu is going to be purely set on Earth lol.
The Space Jockey is huge. The Engineer is about half the size.
yes
Just a design inconsistency between a gap of 30 years from both movies, the suit is almost identical, the lore is the same, the tech is the same, space jockeys are engineers, maybe just mummified engineers, maybe ancient engineers.
The Space Jockey was intended to be 26ft... in the First Shot when Dallas and Co climb up and walk to the Pilot Chair the Space Jockey would be about 20-22ft Tall. As they used Child Actors
The close up Shot the Space Jockey would have been 13-15 ft Tall.
The Engineers were intended to be 15ft Tall... then downgraded to 10ft Tall... but again what we ended up with is a 8ft Space Suited Engineers
There’s a lot of other issues too. The anatomy doesn’t match up either
In the old script for Prometheus, the space jockey was in the planet where Prometheus landed, many many years ago, there was an outbreak on the ship when they left to bomb earth, there was talking between the engineer's on that planet saying.
There's nothing we can do now, he's infected, he'll give birth within the hour, speaking about the facehugger...they call the facehugger a planet seeder.
There was an outbreak on the planet where Shaw finds the sleeping engineer.
I really need to read that script soon
Great job man ! Keep up the good vid's !
Thanks, will do!
It’s such a shame that Ridley Scott tried to provide a possible explanation as to what the “space jockey” was. The whole point of this discovery in the original film was to create mystery. If we know what it is, it’s no longer alien.
Originally we was going to get a Movie that was more like Aliens and about Xenomorphs (not sure of the Time Line) but then they thought about making a Prequel and to explain the Space Jockey.
Ridley Scott maybe in Hindsight would wish it was a Mystery. But he LOST any Creative Control over the Sequel to ALIEN, and so we still had the Mystery of WHERE did the Xenomorph come from and WHO had Created them and WHO was the Space Jockey their Race and Agenda.
And so RS had rather had his input on this, rather than leaving it Mystery for the Studio to then ANSWER these either after RS has passed away or is too OLD.
And thus he has NO input on them... like he never as far as where to take ALIEN next after 1979
I feel Ridley Scott ruined the Alien universe with the humanoid Engineers & having David creating the xenomorphs. The space jockey should be some far out looking creature with absolutely nothing to do with humanity.
Exactly, and if you read Alien Vault book and Giger's Alien, it's said : Space Jockey is a creature devoid of any human resemblance.
@@MEGFINANCE and Ridley Scott just went totally left field with that & made him look like a giant human with a few small differences.
@@shallah777 Just ignore Prometheus and Covenant, those movies are just boring and incoherent bullshit. The true Alien and Space Jockey are from GIGER's mind, don't forget it.
I love the prequel and think that a the lore can coexist
@@ProjectACHERON Space jockeys are not engineers, just read the Alien Vault Book or Giger's Alien Book or Alien Archives, They ARE NOT THE SAME. How can you pretend be fan of Alien and love Prometheus and Covenant ? those movies are just incoherent bullshit and garbage. Scott killed the mystery and the whole lore of Alien with those awful, terrible movies. 40 years of mythology just killed by 2 awful, incoherent and silly movies.
You really wanna know? Ok. The Space Jockey is a victim of Ridley's ever growing incompetence and inability to accept a mystery as a mystery. It is Ridley's sheer hubris, arrogance, and lack of real skill these days.
Brilliant! I'm loving this idea. It makes a lot of sense.
Glad you think so!
Would love to see a fx series based on the engineers vs the space jockey group
Though I actually liked Prometheus, I think the best step forward for the franchise would be to make the Engineers a separate race to the Space Jockeys.
In the comics there's a species called the Mala'kak, they could easily introduce them as the space jockey and a different species, the engineers could of based their tech off them. Although they were later made into the same species, it wouldn't be hard to draw the connections
i like to think that the space jockey is the same type of being as the "Scorn guy" from Scorn. now that game isn't out yet and i have no idea whether they linked it to Alien, but from what i've seen of the trailers and demo, it's very easy to imagine that the world of scorn is the true origin of the alien. it's very gigeresque. i've seen images of the scorn guy morphing from the walls and having tubes into him. so yeah, whatever the space jockey is, maybe he is kinda like the scorn guy
yeah when scorn was first announced i was like yep this is the space jockey species, its a pre-prequel haha
I hated Prometheus because it made the Space Jockey understandable and rational. In Alien the Space Jockey was unknown and unknowable which is much better for existential horror. It was also totally alien. Giger's creation was totally alien in every way - and to have it reduced to a suit to fit a humanoid was a huge let down.
So I think Prometheus and Covenent are two big mistakes. They take the mystery out of Alien, and in doing so make it mundane.
I might’ve thought of the Space Jockey as just a biomechanical machine designed by ancient Xenomorphs that is only programmed to pilot a ship to travel further out into space and colonize different planets, but if the ship is in critical damage, the Chestburster, that only acts as a worker, emerges as a self destruct sequence, related to Ash and androids humans made.
7:00 to 9:30 you summed it up well. The (singular) jockey and (plural) engineers share similar tech, but by their different races.
Example: 3 separate film franchises centered on lethal aliens, and humans with military backgrounds.
"Mac" who survived alien (MacReady)
_The Thing_
"Mac" who died by alien _Predator_
"Mac" who was mutated by alien (Takahashi) _Doom_
Bro it's just the desing choices that changed, not the lore. Engineers are the same thing as Space Jokeys...
I feel your video hit the nail on the head. Classic story of creations rebelling against their creators. I feel the space jockeys engineered the xenos as a last ditch effort as they were faced with the brink of extinction from the engineers usurping them. It could also be possible that the space jockeys did the same to an even older advanced race they may have even known more then them but technologies could have been lost in every “cycle”. It’s a possibility as to why the engineers became hostile to humans as their progress was a threat to to the engineers existence yet they were a necessary tool to reactivate them.
Yeah i know i really do love this concept of the cycle of creation and how history repeats itself due to the sins of the both the 'Father' and the 'Son'.
Only the first movie is canon to me. The mystery of where it and the jockey came from was one of the best parts of the movie.
That’s the great thing about any franchise is you can have your own head canon and only think or talk about the thing you want to discuss
And how do you like this theory? Jockeys created engineers from the DNA of people and engineers out of jealousy of the creators decided to destroy humanity.
Hey its always possible, i love the mystery surrounding this ancient race of aliens!
Well this could have been one of the Curveballs we could have got...
The Concept Work for the Citadel Building in Alien Covenant, a Concept work of the Doors done by TWO different Concept Artist had shown Humanoids... as in very Human.
With Females but also Bearded Humans. One Concept had a more Greek Aesthetic and the other Summerian Aesthetic.
And so WHO knows why this was done, but indeed having the Engineers Creators actually be more like Humans or Humans would be a Curveball
I prefer the idea of Engineers and Space Jockeys being two different species. And agree with you that maybe its like as Shaw put it in Prometheus "Who made them?". The Space Jockeys being gods to the Engineers explains a lot why the Engineers mimic the ships and appearance of the Space Jockey. Space Jockey's were initially meant to be a far older ancient species, and this wasn't just referenced in expanded Alien media, but also in Aliens vs Predator expanded media as well.
Yeah I prefer that it’s up in the air atm. And honestly I prefer it that way
We are talking about two movies with a 33 year gap between them. Even the creators can forget about certain details like size, shape, and overall aesthetics. It seems obvious to you because now you have access to both movies and can watch them back to back, comparing every single detail, but when you make a movie you hardly do this. And we're talking about Ridley Scott here, a guy that made 2 shite movies (Prometheus and Covenant) so obviously he didn't pay much respect to older material.
Fantasic video! Very entertaining and intriguing! 👍🏼👍🏼
Never paid attention to this thing, until they brought it up in a documentary movie about Alien.
I hope they make a movie where we find out that the space jockey isn’t actually an engineer
I like the theory that the engineers stole the space jockey's technology and they made an exo-suit to match the physical requirements to pilot it. But they are definitely two different species
I like to think prometheus is non-canon.
prometheus is definitely canon
For me everything after ALIENS is non canon except for the 90s Dark Horse comics that picked up the story immediately following that movie.
@@anthonysvokos2697 To me AlienS is not even canon, unless they just so happened to of bumped into the Stand Up Comedian/Clown Xeno's. None of the sequels are they just Cryo nightmares. And I don't read comics
WORSTXB1PLAYER Tyler Tee H C Cryo nightmares is a good explanation for the later movies.... I like that.
@@anthonysvokos2697 Yeah they are the visions Ripley has whilst still lost forever tumbling through space. Then you can deal with the pure lunacy of most of it. The surrealism even the really Bad Special effects.
The space jockey is much much older in comparative to the little octopus alien legs,it luks that the little alien ame after the ship crashed.
Thank you for this interesting, balanced analysis.
Prometheus movies were a franchise killer of alien. One of thee greatest mysteries in cinematic history was the space jockey.
They should have left it alone the idiots .
The space jockey engineer had no story until Prometheus. This is an engineer and a engineer ship.
Good video. Let's hope we will at least get novelisation of this awesome part of the Alien universe. A graphic novel would be very welcome as well
Fingers crossed!
Come on man, Scott changed the jockeys narrative just to expand the Alien world for his Promethus Movie. It wasn't the original idea for the space jockey in Alien.
Yeah I mean that's right but it doesn't mean we can't theorise the specifics 9f that expansion
Hot it right on the head man...I never made any connection between the space jockey and the engineers
There was no real explanation for the Space Jockey Agenda.
Originally it was a Race who discovered the Eggs in a Pyramid.
To then being a Race who were carrying the Eggs to be used in some Conflict with a unknown Enemy.
RS had back then (few years after Alien) indicated that the Space Jockey had performed a Heroic Act and was Benevolent
I have an Dark Horse Comics 6 book alien series and the Engineers/ Aliens in the comic book look Just Like That it’s NOT a suit. Also I have a Space Jockey vinyl model from 1992 and the box describes the machine the jockey is sitting behind is a Space Navigating Telescope. Remember their technology is different than ours.
@Project: ACHERON - ALIEN Explained
I walk up to the Derelict.
Knocks on it, "Who's in there?" I ask
...
...
"Certainly not a hairless albino 8 foot tall basket player if that's what you're thinking. I take offense to THAT" Comes the answer.
...
"15 foot tall elephantine bio-mechanoid with a proboscis?" I ask.
...
"You got it buddy! Hope you brought chips and beer, come on in! We can catch the football game if ya hurry!"
Lol
It's simple, Scott messed up with his quest for a new movie, that wasn't supposed to be 'Alien', but actually was. He wanted a sort of 'ancient aliens' movie, and just copy-pasted his recipe from Alien for this, eventually leading to becoming just a new 'alien' movie, with a few different elements. Mainly, twisting the Space Jockey into being a humanoid that is our 'ancestor'. To make it more 'relatable' he sized down the engineer and altered it's design into being a suit instead of a body. retconning his original legendary movie. that is it, it's nothing more to it than that. Scott didn't care for his original, worse that he twisted it into that some psychopathic android creating the xenomorph instead of sticking to the issue that LV-426's derelict is atleast thousands years old with the being fossilized, and as such, further retconning his own 'creation'.
what can only be left to do now is a bit of a problem. Something has to happen to connect 'Covenant' to 'Alien'. LV-426, also called 'Acheron', was a planet with dense atmosphere housing the derelict ship that send out the 'distress call'. Prometheus visits a moon called LV-223, in the'Zeta II Reticuli' system. That same system was mentioned in Alien (1), when they try to discover where they were after being woken up they discovered they were at the Zeta II Reticuli system. Covenant was en route to Origae-6, far further away than the Zeta 2 Reticuli system. They got a signal (from Shaw) and went to 'Planet 4', which supposedly isn't too far away from LV-426 and LV-423. Some people argue that Planet 4 is actually LV-426 'acheron'.
Both the ship and cargo aboard the 'juggernaut' are different to that of Derelict on LV-426, however one must remember that the ship that we saw things unfold in Prometheus is not the same vessel as David and Shaw travel to Planet 4 on, there were more ships on LV-223. The cargo however aboard that David unleashes to commit genocide on the inhabitants of the planet, or at least the specific area of that planet, is the same as the vases we saw in Prometheus. However, though there are similarities, because it's not the same vessel, we cannot certainly use the layout of the 'sarcophaguses' with the Engineer as the same design and size of the seat the space jockey was in that was found on Planet 4 by the Covenant crew.
That said, we also must keep in mind Scott has altered the design and 'origins', so perhaps it's best to ignore those differences.
Now, the cargo aboard the Derelict are eggs. Originally they were vases. David supposedly is the 'creator' of the eggs. Let's put aside how annoying and unlikely it is, and let's keep in mind that that doesn't mean that he might simply has used what was already there just needed the right 'ingredients' as claimed by himself, leading to the possibility that he wasn't the designer at all, just 'bringing that specific object back in existance'.
Either way, we could argue that the fact the eggs aboard the derelict in Alien 1 were intact and 'alive', we could theorize that they really weren't that old.
How would the eggs then get aboard the derelict? Well, David gets aboard the Covenant and takes off. What could happen is that something happens right after the end of Covenant, perhaps the engineers themselves were alerted by what happened on either LV-223 or Planet 4 (which still can be Acheron), and shoot down the Covenant, or something else happens, causing the covenant to crash, and David is back to square one at Planet 4.
This time however, with the surviving colonists in hypersleep aboard the Covenant, that are either woken up - perhaps by Daniels whom also woke up. or David might have found a way to transform living tissue into 'his' eggs, and loaded the egg-i-fied colonists into the Derelict, as he discovered or reasoned the Derelict could fly but the Covenant couldn't.
So perhaps the premises will turn out that David wants to fly off the planet with the crashed Juggernaut, filled with eggs, and go to Earth to wipe out humanity. David, with a damaged android body, perhaps even manages to 'create' for himself a (giant) body, transferring his conscience to that body.
After all, not only does it looks like he was able to download or switch his program with the body of Walter, he also seemingly was able to communicate on some level with the NeoMorph, and, likely too, with the XenoMorph. David might found a way to 'create' a silicon-based (giant) body, the size or even bigger and stronger than that of an Engineer, and then 'invade' that body, and then to steer away from Planet 4 to go and destroy Earth.
Ultimately, somehow, he is prevented to do so. Perhaps human survivors - perhaps it's even Walter in davi'ds original body, manage to have David himself impregnanted by a facehugger below the mask, now that he has a non-android body as a payoff. then to have a chestburster burst out of his chest.
The non-human treats could be enough to have his 'skeleton' fossilize faster than a normal humanoid being would.
as such, the juggernaut never leaves Planet 4, and the space Jockey was David all along. Even the size doesn't neccesarily matter as Scott sort of retconned this.
What then could happen is that there is still the case of an outbreak of the neomorphs and the xenomorphs and now perhaps the new 'DavidMorph'.
It could lead to either Daniels (and Walter) or surviving Colonists to initiate a self-destruct sequence to the crashed Covenant ship to cause some sort of Nuclear meltdown that they would set off that would destroy the entire planet AND the toxics David released on the planet, clearing the planet of what happened, and initiating a 'warning signal' aboard the Juggernaut, which' hull was able to withstand the planetary nuclear mayhem.
I would personally argue that the engineers long have perished and are extinct, and that only their 'creations' remain somehow, like the inhabitants of Planet 4 were not actually engineers, which is obvious since they 'worshipped' the Engineers. Likewise, the 'Arcturians' are another creation of the Engineers, sharing human-like physique to such degree they can even be sexually compatible with humans.
I would thus argue that Walter likely killed David (in a silicon body), which is the Space Jockey. Walter then set a warning signal, knowing he could not destroy said spaceship, and had to flee the new beast born from David's body, and used the Covenant ship to cause a gigantic super-nuclear explosion that completely destroyed the planet and left it in the state it was in when the Nostromo crew encountered the planet.
Meaning Planet 4 is actually LV-426.
It would make sense that Weyland-Yutani wanted to 'terraform' the planet, as they know about it's history, and it's capability to be a habitable world.
I dont think the space Jockey is an engineer, it's likely to be an Alpha/Precursor. The Engineers likely mimic the technology of the Space Jocky's race, but there are differences.
i agree!
Well done
Thank. You
It’s so much better and cooler if the Space Jockey is a completely different and ‘Alien’ race. I enjoy the theories that say that the Space Jockey is part of the ship itself, that the ship is organic and alive. That is very mysterious and otherworldly. I refuse to believe the Space Jockey in Alien is simply a humanoid Engineer.
Aliens dark descent basically confirmed they are two seperate species
thank you for this! they are NOT the same, at all!
As much as i like the idea about the engineers actually being the analog synthetics/androids of the real "engineer"-aliens, and maybe a conflict between the creators and their creations, i think that this is merely a "fresh" update of the old desings in the new movies. They redesigned the Enterprise for the big-budget movie of the original series. I grant them the artistic freedom, despite the fact that the good observer can spot many obvious differences between the old and new despictions. One day they will prolly make a movie which will give us some explaination why the seemingly "old" ship crashed and who the pilot actually was.
Yeah but that’s not a fun to think about
Engineers are the product of space jockeys and the humans are a product of the engineers which is why each species slowly gets more humanoid until it all went tits up. That's my take 😅
I think there’s some truth it that
It's David, he needed an organism to run the Juggernaut. We saw how he kept the facehugger eggs in his chest, one busted out and laid eggs when he fled something... This would explain LV 426
Yeah David is a possibility
The derelict looked bio-mechanical because it had been taken over by the xenomorphs and they were doing their own version of terra-forming to make it hospitable for their queen to lay the eggs. This came to me when watching the colonial marines entering the sub basement of the power station the first time. It looks very industrial to start. Metal piping, metal stairs, metal everywhere. Then as they reach the outer area of the nest, the industrial look transforms over to the bio-mechanical look in the derelict.
great, what's next the Alien fights the Pred... oh wait
I'm guessing Ridley Scott said " F it" the engineers are smaller but nobody will notice.
I'm so disappointed in the ending of Prometheus... When the trilobite got the engeneer , I though it'd give birth to a huge alien queen or some type of huge monster....umm no , just a tiny decon
We have to Bare in mind that the Deacon was a New Born... and it is WAY more Larger than a Xenomorph Queen New Born.... but as the Deacon is a Human Hybrid.. if it grew the same % as a average Mammal (Birth to Adult) the Deacon would grow to be 15-16 ft Tall
The xenomorph existed for millions of years, that’s why we see the fossil of the space jockey. Also the mural on the wall of the xeno in Prometheus.
A work of art is a gut reaction. Trying to explain it brakes the illusion.
Also, Alien left you with unanswered questions, which let the audiences apply their own imagination. That is always going to be more powerful than an answer a director gives you, its the question that is interesting, not the answer.
But Prometheus was actually on the way of answering it in a satisfying manner tho... they just needed to make the engineers bigger and have the eggs be the xeno eggs, boom no need for covenant and Davids trash experiments that didnt even lead to the main Xeno yet...
I like the theory that it’s actually David in the suit, setting a trap for the Weyland Corporation (I know many hate the two prequel films though 😓) also really like the original idea that it’s millions of years old
I would note that the navigation equipment and sleep chambers around the chair could be in the floor. Lowered during flight or crash sequences...
Who knows, we don’t know enough about their vehicles to really tell
Or an particulary class of engineer specified born for the voyage into deep space
That also would be pretty cool! they can do so much with this idea
Yeah i see that as a good explaination too!
makes more sense...
The Jockey is most definitely NOT an engineer. I dont know what Ridley was thinking when he dreamed up this "engineer" crap.
It’s a baby elephant who got stuck in a turkey frame.
This is all speculative. An entire mythology can written about this character. I think people have spent more time wrestling with this guy than anything else in the series.
His name was Mike, he had a family........
Poor mike, why do bad things always happen to the good people
Engineers and Space Jockeys may be separate species that worked together at one point as well..
Damn could they be going down the Precursor, Forerunner and flood route-ish? 😱
Space Jockeys - Precursor
Engineers - Forerunner
Alien - Flood
Just so you know, for cost effectiveness and time efficiency in production of Alien, the space jockey room and the egg chamber are the same room just repurposed for each shot.
I like the idea that the jockey was part of a more ancient race. The first species to advance to interstellar travel. That they had mastered genetic engineering and saw it as their duty to spread advanced evolution across the stars. And the xenomorphs were an inevitable and unavoidable result of genetic engineering. As if their existence was a great filter that destroys advanced civilizations who master their genetic engineering. The jockey ship is a disposal or containment vessel intended to remove these creatures from growing in numbers. And the engineers are one of the jockey created races who have advanced to the point where they can influence genetics. They also clearly discovered the remnants of jockey civilization and tech.
EXACTLY!!!!
The juggernaut ship it’s slightly rounded shape and the original derelict ship looks bigger and “U” shaped.
Say what you will about Prometheus it's dumb Human Scientists and even Ridley Scott himself, but atleast he tried to explore the bigger picture of who and what are the Space Jockeys. No other director or creative in Hollywood has had the guts to try and explore that.
@Pinko Slink Well you "explore it to a certain point, you can explore the Space Jockeys cause thy were always begging to be explored anyway.
What you do is you don't explore the Xenomorphs and just make it where th SJ discovered them eons ago.
We don’t know we shouldn’t know we should wonder we should wonder with dread and awe and terror and half remembered dreams that’s what made this film so damn guuuuuuuuuudddd
Another thing that bothered me was the type of technology used in both ships. Prometheus and Covenant had too advanced technology compared to what was seen on the Nostromo that even if it is a cargo ship, they do not coincide. And that was many years after the prequels.
The space jockey was a fossilised being. If you know how long it takes for a creature to become fossilised, that is all the answers you need. It doesn't add up to what they're trying to sell us with the engineers story in Prometheus and Covecrap.
Alien started as a terror movie and became a very complex story about "who created who?" The Black goo created the engineers, the engineers created us, we created the sintetics and the sintetics created the Xenomorphs
That dude didn’t come to play.
Nope
Really like your,hypothesis about the Space Jockey being a separate, even older species than the engineers. However, I think it's unlikely that the crash site on LV-426 will ever be revisited since the destruction of the atmosphere processor probably vaporized the alien range and the juggernaut as well rendering further investigation into the Space Jockey's actual origin impossible.
I mean it could have but there also that vast underground chamber beneath the derelict!
@@ProjectACHERON Yeah... funny how everyone thinks that chamber is inside the derelict. People who can't think three-dimensionally often make that sort of error.
Unless the derelict is a TARDIS, the egg chamber is a cavern below the derelict, not inside the derelict.
I presume you did a proof of that at some point, right?
Did you guys notice that Xenomoprh's body parts resemble 1979 space jockey's body structure and it's organic ship