Razer's Wireless is Superior (for now)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.ย. 2022
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Razer Viper V2 Pro: geni.us/FDBXqY
Logitech G Pro Superlight: geni.us/xJskS0
The playing field for gaming mice is more even than ever, but Razer have found a couple ways to stay ahead.
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optimum tech actually gives you more info than there is on product page
That could be the case for some companies but what he's doing is consuming and digesting data to then lay out in a more attractive manner for the consumer
Edit: His implementation of testing rigs is also a very welcome way of measuring and visualizing improvements
@@JCerris OK
@@JCerris It seems like you dont understand what you just wrote...
@@Ivlodded I'm boutta consume you 😘
i agree like all razer has to do is to put the graph at 3:10 on their product page
This testing tech is really just so interesting
I'd be interested in more tests regarding the 4k dongle and motion sync.
Also compare it to the only other mouse that has 4khz..m2k
Yeah me too, would also be cool to see them in action with a 360hz refresh rate monitor or that one with 390hz. Or maybe with the upcoming 500hz monitors
@@ktg_2castle960 m2k has 8khz, so latency is better on that mouse
@@alevicari367 8khz also makes everything laggy af
@@virologiclmp I have the razer viper wired and at 8khz my pc just can’t handle the polling rate
Great video. The statement "this is like Gsync for a mouse" is really good for marketing.
More people should talk about this
Really interesting. The Input/Output topic has always felt missing to me. Having greater and greater speed of processing with better CPU/GPU and delivering the results on faster refresh monitors, is all Output, so I'm happy to see you discuss Input and the effects of syncing both sides of the user experience. I wonder how fast and effortless we can go before needing to change the whole IO ecosystem.
Probably soon. Microsoft is surely aware of some of the inefficiencies of IO that need to be rethought at 8k polling rates, especially on modern hardware.
@@laeiounMicrosoft shadow dropped an update over the past year to change the scheduling in how often it checks for mouse input to solve the issue of cpu usage with higher polling mice. Not sure if that’s the best way to word what they did but it solve the stuttering issue I was having.
@@stimmymcgotems408 You're correct.
I love that you're showing the differences between mice brands and model than just looks and feel although they're more important as you've said.
I really appreciate this in-depth look/review about product features rather than just skin deep review! much respect for the time and effort you put into this!
Finally i understand what motion sync does exactly and how it works. I did't find any really useful information on that on the internet before!
I really love the science and the effort that goes into making these videos where you back up your opinion with scientific proof. Keep doing what you do! You really are doing all of us gamers such a massive favour and you deserve all the respect and support for it.
If there's scientific proof it's not an opinion anymore, though
Hmm it’s scientific appearance but I wouldn’t consider science. Thisbis just better marketing.
I love that you investigated this stuff @Optimum Tech! This stuff also amazes me. Another thing to look into is apparently the implementation of motion sync. There's been word that even the hardware-based 3395 sensor with motion sync module on, can even add 1ms of input delay if not implemented correctly. Apparently not as easy as slapping a 3995 and turning on motion sync without issues. Great video!
Hats off for your content: so professional, nice visualization with the clean graphs plus explaining, high quality b-roll shots etc.
And plus points for being a tech youtuber who can actually game really well.
Motion sync is still present at 4khz, and 2k. It is difficult at the moment to get to be smooth
just got the deathadder v3 pro, been loving it way more than the g pro. Does feel slightly snapper but also the shape is WAY better for my large hands
A video comparing a mouse from the 90's vs today's best mouse would be fun
The main difference would definitely be the input delay. Old mice had very low refresh rates of around 125hz or even lower. The original Razer Viper maxed out at 125hz in 2004.
I love this kind of input breakdown. I hope your tech improve, so we can get more content. Great job!
Awesome vid thanks for doing the in-depth research for us, it is getting pretty hard to discern the differences in modern mice. Keep up the good work!
I agree that mice have all been going the same place, especially with the bigger companies. I'm currently using a pulsar xlite wireless and I'd honestly never think about changing it. There's just nothing else like it in terms of form factor in the market.
I can always identify your videos by their very unique thumbnails, great work!
As the others I would not have thought so much tech would go into a mouse. Do you consider launching your own brand of hardware at some point? Is that T1 in the back the aircooled build you've shown us or the newer build? 😉
Great video, thanks for the tests too, I might try the viper to see if I can actually feel the difference while i'm gaming.
Just discovered your channel recently and I love your vids. Keep it up!
Ever since I have tried razer's wireless mice with the focus sensor, it always felt "snappier" but people told me it was placebo. When I read the motionsync info on their page it seemed like it played a part. Good to know that there's actually a performance difference.
I agree that the Razer mouse is now responsive and also the best sensor of the competition. I've been using Viper Ultimate for 2 years and never had any issues like lag or double clicks.
@@summelofficial2378 I’m about to get heavily into FPS games and All my life I’ve been hearing that Wired mouses have less latency and are more responsive then wireless mice… do you think this is still true, or because technology has gotten better there’s really no difference to wired or wireless with any type of delay between the two. I’m looking into getting either the Razor Viper Ultimate or just a Razor viper 8K… what do you think is better???
wireless or wired mouse the difference is only milliseconds. Razer Viper 8K Hz is good for FPS but Razer Viper Ultimate is also good. for Razer Viper 8K Hz you must have a high end pc spec. I recommend the Razer Viper Ultimate Mercury (V2 Switch Mouse) for you.
Very interesting video, I always feel something is different with my Aria than my Tenz, not the weight nor the shape, more likely the sensor.
Informative look into new mouse tech, the testing is really cool and your effort is appreciated! I have a Glorious model O that I am happy with but I am always interested in seeing what's around the corner too!
For the slide @8:02, it's less about how recent the polled data is compared to the display timing (@240Hz in our example), but how recent it is with respect to the frame's calculation and rendering. It's a stacking of latencies; the display will use the latest frame rendered (which for eSports could be anywhere from 1-4ms old depending on the game and your CPU+GPU), and that frame calculation will use the latest input it received. Still gives you basically the same conclusion, just a bit more complete. (And technically both the OS and driver you're using are also involved and can add latency between frame rendering and display presentation as well... :( )
For those wondering, a lot of games will calculate frames as quickly as possible and simply not display the ones that are out-of-date by the time the display refresh interval comes around (known as triple buffering), and some sophisticated engines will try to delay the frame calculation until the last possible moment to try to get it to time up well with the display refresh timing.
great video as always :)
have you tested if there is a kind of "smoother" curve on the g pro if you use it on 500 hz?
I know the mice aren't in the same class with super lights, but I'd be curious if Corsair's 2000hz wireless can compensate for the missing sensor consistency with brute force excess.
Interested in that 4k testing for the same curiosity.
Thank you for putting so much effort investigating the product and presenting such in-depth review to the community.
Just one question, does the optimization in reciving signals making a great difference when using these gaming mouse and does the effect of sensor motion sync have connection with the DPI settings?
Yes! this is exactly what I was waiting for. Thanks for your work and effort Optimum Tech
This explains why my new DAv3 pro not only feels wildly smooth but makes games look and feel smoother at 4k polling. On 240hz everything just feels smoother compared to my GPX. Logitech needs to get back in the lab and get new sensor tech now.
Honestly, if you enjoy the ergo shape that the DAv3 has, stick to it. I don't have it yet, but it looks like the ergo mouse to have for the next few years. 4000HZ 63G Wireless Ergo is just insane to me, and as a Pulsar Xlite V2 Wireless fan I am excited to try it.
and that would be a $50 price bump
Razer has exclusive rights with Pixart for about a year or so with the new sensor so it may be a while before we see something from Logitech with this new tech, looking forward to it tho, props to Razer for pushing innovation.
@@stevetriple8 Logitech makes their own sensors. Razer having exclusivity doesn't matter to them. However actual competition will hopefully drive them to make something new.
@@stevetriple8 That´s not entirely true tho. Pixart has motion-sync in their latest PAW3395 which is open for any company to use. Pulsar X2 Sym for example is already released and has motion-sync. They have even done it possible to enable/disable it in their software. Endgame gear XM2w which seems to take ages to be released uses PAW3395 and was prob the first product to spotlight this feature on their product page. Meanwhile it´s true that Razer has a partnership with Pixart, this tends more to get them their owned tweaked versions of "insert named" sensors. 3399 is basicly their unique touch on the 3395 and so on. Meanwhile Logitech also has had this partnership with Pixart for years and they actually had the 3366 for about a year locked to them before 3360 was released through other company´s products. But that´s not the case for the 3395 and it´s motion-sync feature.
As Logitech did alot of the work and research to make the 3366(3360) and later on understood that Pixart would sell it to every company out there, they started to make their own sensors "HERO - High Efficiency Rating Optical". But in the case of Razer i would say they fall more or less in the same category as other brands like Steelseries "Truemove" or Roccat´s "Owl-Eye". Sure you would see some higher DPI and special features here and there, but in the long run the hardware comes from Pixart and is based on a sensor they sell. It´s more about custom firmware & software that seperates them.
Your content is unmatched. Very well done. The research, the presentation, the effort, it's all so well executed.
Going above and beyond with these tests and data. Excellent work.
This man is the reason I got the viper ultimate from his wireless speed video your awesome dude
Bro makes such good videos, always concise yet informative, great explanations, clean graphics and camera quality, AND you're actually good at games which means we can trust the things you say and your opinion on these things. Bro is like the perfect gaming/tech youtuber right now fr
No one is making such detailed reviews about tech that we gamers care about.
Thank you for putting so much time and effort into your videos, They're really fun to watch.
Very great video man. I discovered you a couple months ago from some monitor comparisons getting me that beautiful DyAc 240 monitor, and I continue to get blown away by your knowledge and science and hard work for these videos. Keep it up mate 👍
Nice information. Hope the Naga pro v2 that comes out later this fall have this feature :O
Can't stress enough how I love your approach to reviewing gaming tech, data driven analysis with minimalistic editing just.. *chef's kiss* 👌
I wonder if there is a way to know who's wireless audio is the best
If I'm following correctly, according to some Razer folks on different forums (Blur Busters I recall specifically) Motion Sync works up to 4k and comes on any of the Razer 20k (3399) sensor mice or higher but it's harder to see the higher the polling rate.
Ali, we need a Round 2 please! Excellent and detailed work
This is incredible, thank you for making this
been maining the viper v2 pro since it released - perfect combination with the 60he
and great vid, very well presented like always
I'm running the same combo!
Was hoping to hear other people with that combo, currently waiting for my 60he
The he is too good man
Do u prefer it over the apex pro?
@@basedkat haven't tried it, but from reviews and comparisons i'd say the 60he is better
only minor complaint i've seen is the spring weight but you can just get lighter springs if you want
Also 4K and 8k polling can affect cpu usage and would be important to look into
Amazing the level of detail that goes into your reviews!
This is interesting, never knew mice had motion sync... Will def be looking to get a razor mouse as my next upgrade
It’s spelled “R Λ Z Ξ R”
Careful, I have this mouse and it suffers from the same problem many razer mice do which is problems with the scroll wheel/double clicking and I've only had it since March. Somehow Razer has not fixed this problem after years and years...
@@Chaosball-wc1kk never had these problems with Razer could just be a Quality Control Problem
@@Chaosball-wc1kk Double-clicking is an issue with the switches being used. Many mice use the OMRON D2FC-F-7N switch and it is known to cause double-clicking eventually.
@@shooternerd It's definitely not, look up anything to do with Razer mice, it happens to them all at some point whether it's 3 months or 3 years.
How long have you had your mouse and which one?
Wow that’s wild. I really hope Logitech comes out with an updated G Pro X Superlight sometime soon to compete. I hate having to use micro usb to charge it, and I’d appreciate the better sensor resolution.
@@idkwhatname3133 So we shouldn't want improvements in the performance of our hardware because some people might not notice the improvement? That's a pretty weak opinion. The cumulative effect of multiple improvements like this can have an impact that is noticeable to a lot of people. Faster grey-to-grey response times and higher refresh rates won't help everyone, and perhaps lower latency and higher sensor resolution won't help everyone either, but I see no reason to suppress these improvements. If you want a cheap mouse that may hinder your performance, then you can buy one. When I upgrade my mouse every few years, I'd rather buy one that's objectively better than the last.
@@idkwhatname3133 ur brain got motion blur
@@idkwhatname3133 when I played competitively I played with a 30$ mouse and a dining room chair lmao. Having better peripherals isn’t a sin 😜
This is pretty interesting, I wonder how the competition will react. I believe Logitech also started making optical switches they call hybrid switches and put them into their g502
The explanations and supporting graphics are insane on this. Really helps visualize what the differences are between what Razer has been offering versus most other companies.
razer has really changed and improved as a brand ever since they started listening to the modding community. I love that they sell doubleshot keycaps now, custom power cables, and super light mice. The brand went from a cheap gimickey brand to a top quality brand. Obviously they'll never have keyboards as good as the super expensive custom ones but they're still high end.
honestly the fact that they were a cheap gimmicky brand was the main reason I stayed away from their mice until the release of their Viper V2 pro. It seemed like a step up from the rest of the mice out there, now also being 4k Hz compatable makes it even more impressive. Sadly the mouse isn't quite the fit for me, I have medium hands so large mice generally feel comfortable but small mice feel like they offer more control with a little less comfort depending on the shape and size. If they put out a Mini, It would probably have a good chance of becoming my new main.
I'm very resistant to common marketing and ads, almost never ad or promo with their BS attraction strategy will lure me into buying unless I very carefully read technical specs, but these detailed technical videos from optimum tech with accurate testing...man, I'm "shut up and take my money" every time by the end
except that none of this has any real impact on your gaming performance
@@nothingness863 if my WiFi wasn't so sh*t maybe it would matter more lol
@@nothingness863 stop the cap
@@Minurz no, it wouldn't
this guy really doesnt just ramble on about paper specs but put them to his own tests... wow this is proper well thought out content right here well done my guy u deserve where u are in this space
Watched your desk setup video the other day and now I suddenly have a Zaunkoenig M2K being delivered to me, despite never hearing about it until I clicked on your video.
Wireless mice always felt off to me when I compared them to wired. I knew it wasn’t a latency issue too. This makes so much sense.
This has nothing to do with wired mice lol
@@Dylbert read his comment again
@@DankMemes-xq2xm Yeah i mean the video has nothing to do with wireless mice if he did the same test it would be very similar so this comment is just not correct lol
I mean if he did same test with wired
@@Dylbert he literally said in the video that the jitter is something that affects wireless mice, which implies that it doesn't affect wired mice, and it also doesn't affect the new razer wireless mice because they fixed the issue. So Nostalgic is saying he noticed a difference between wireless mice and wired mice because the wireless mice he used doesn't have the fix that razer uses.
Would like to see these tests on the new Logitech G502 X. Marketing says they've really improved Lightspeed to a huge degree as compared to the last gen.
How to spot an idiot: "marketing" "says".
@@gdgd5194 And he isnt wrong. 502 are among the popular muce and the X is well recieved
your videos on these subjects are such high quality
Cool, good to see things like this. Glad something is happening in peripherals was getting a bit boring with everyone seemingly copy/paste each other
if there would be a razer viper v2 pro mini with 50g, then i would main it. but the normal viper is just to big and flat for me
Fingers crossed for a Viper V2 Pro Wireless Mini.
I mean there's the SE
woah the motion sync thing sounds INSANE. Optimum Tech is in a league of his own in mice testing and finding the TRUE ABSOLUTE BEST of them 💯💯💯
Interesting info. I do primarily use a Viper V2 Pro, but I don't think I am skilled enough to use the potential advantage this may give, I just like the shape and weight a lot.
Great video! Thank you for making these beautifal charts, they inspired me so much.
It's just not enough to justify me buying a new mouse unfortunately...but it's cool to see the mouse brands innovating.
What mouse do you have
@@agsechogd6406 g pro superlight
Love your content Optimum but u can’t say the mices recently have been boring when you haven’t even tried the new pulsar X2, Lamzu Atlantis or perhaps the Fantech Aria
6:43 He's aware
Yea thats not gonna change anything lmao its still technically within spec with what was discussed.
G-Wolves just released a 4k hz wireless mouse. Would love to see you test that
Love to get an update on the motion sync to see if there is any felt difference beside the info stated in the video.
Doesn't the 3395 also have motionsync? Would love a comparison.
I'm curious because my XM1r (3370) also has MotionSync that can be enabled
These mices are very complicated in my opinion. Once you plug them then, you have to find the right sensitivity and movement speed. I miss having a mouse that is plug and play and it's just good the way it is. That's how my 2013 Deathadder was
I don't rly get what you mean
Its not that complicated. That just means the mouse you have shape and weight wise isnt for you. If you like the deathadder, you want to look for ergo mice like pulsar xlite or zowie ec2.
These graphics help so much with understanding the concepts in your videos
Your content is my fav rn, i always look forward to your videos, very informational. Can u do a quick review on the tenz? I saw ur othrr short trial video but id like ur full take!
What about real life tests?
Like: is it actually better for aiming, for example? If you give those two mice to several pro players, would one group perform better than the other?
yes
no they wouldnt. a lot of best "aimers" in cs go still play on 500hz instead of 1k/4k/8k etc... razer "tech" wont even make them 1% better especially in the short term where they have to get used to the mouse shape/sensor placement. So yea... on paper its better but you should always go for shape over weight/high polling rate.
The problem of Razer's wireless product is the stability
I bought a Razer Pro Type and it ruined my work.
Always found it disconnect.
And the wake up is slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow
80% of the pros in Valorant and CSGO still use the GPX superlight. It’s a good all rounded mouse with a shape that’s pretty universal for most.
The other 20% would consist of Starlight, Vaxee, Zowie, Razor, Fnatic if you’re lucky to spot one.
In Apex and COD it’s the same - of at least 5 pro’s I’ve seen it’s either the Starlight, GPX and now more recently Lamzu.
This just tells you the majority are not interested in Razor and haven’t it does not necessarily make the player “a Pro” just because of polling rates or latency which is hardly picked up by the human eye. What does make the biggest difference is the shape, as muscle memory will work best with a mouse you are comfortable using in hand vs forcing your grip to a shape that doesn’t work for you. FYI that’s where Razor is. The shape is okay for those who haven’t really tested other brands in the market.
@@willstw wrobg
amazing content
It's cool to see that there's still room for improvement
Would be nice to see a re-visit of the Starlight 12 after the new update, compared to the TenZ "PRO", and if the sensor input is as good as the superlight as they claim
literal EMI with wireless tech. If you dont play with WIFI on your PC then you shouldn't be so willing to do the same with a mouse even if the distance is closer. You can't measure errors nor retransmissions of data. Those spikes and dips in polling data is literally caused by interference. It can happen with wired cables too (just way less though). Shielded cables be it ethernet cords, or actual mouse/keyboard cords can be way more performant.
pure BS
@@riba2233 can you prove otherwise ? because what I said is undeniably true. Why do you think 1-4khz wireless is unstable in a lot of environments? Is it magic? Please, you have no background in tech if you say bs. Only an idiot would deny the facts.
First ? I guess everyone is lol
Really enjoy your reviews. Backed with data and testing instead of others who just say, it "feels good" or has a "good shape".
Why even use small mouse for large hands? Can't really compare ergo to ambidextrous
It'd be nice to see some numbers for sensor latency of the viper v2 pro with the updated 4000hz compared to other mice. It'd also be interested to see if running higher dpi than 3200 can further reduce latency with this higher polling rate wireless tech.
You should make a video about gaming sleeves. I was a bit sceptical when I picked one up but it made my aim really consistent because my hand doesn't stick to the mouse pad anymore, this was very frustrating for arm aiming.
That mouse-test-rig looks very nice for a d.i.y. solution but the lack of "stiffening" is the limiting factor for speed.
I can only imagine how much it wobbles when that huge Z-axis slider isn't supported......
You could have just X-axis and top speed from the stepper motor, those are scary fast when software alloews. :D
Very interested to hear your long term thoughts on this in aim lab and games etc
I think most new mice are similar because it works and is efficient. As we narrow in what works best more mice will follow a similar trend.
Really nice and refreshing to see with hole new perspective to lookig at the mouce. 👍👍
Wow.. a brilliant test!
i got the viper mini , waiting for the ultimate version ... patiently
Incredible video. SO MUCH DETAIL!
Actually great video with that testing rig
from my understanding razer was selling the 4k dongles at cost when they first released (as they were supposed to ship with the V2 but they werent ready yet).
This is more than an in-depth review. Thanks OT!
the xm1r has motion sync, i was wondering about it the other day and boom, you drop this video!
xm1r motion sync is fake, check pzogel's explanation on mousereview
The fantech aria is the most interesting one of them all IMO
Can't wait to get my hands on it
Totally agree with that, this is an awesome test / video!
But anyway if the shape of the mouse and the feeling on your hands for the switches of the mouse are not good for you, you probably still prefer other mouse without motion sync.
It's very interesting, oh and I have a question, why you don't play and you don't talk about below 240hz ?
I know that 144/165hz it's just "meh" and 240hz it's better, you don't talk about lower refresh rate because it's bad ? Or 240hz it's just the base now?
Ive been using the Viper V2 Pro since it came out, and I can tell you, Daily Driving this thing I have seen massive improvement in the sensor, coming from a Glorious Model D. Razer's tech is becoming absolutely insane.
Pleasantly surprised to find this video when I searched for something to learn about motion sync. Thanks for this highly educational video.
been working out brother i can see that, you got them guns now, keep going
Amazing Review as always!
Btw, any plans on doing a hands on review of the new Alienware AW3423DW QD Oled display?
Great video Habib. You’re a legend. Really appreciate the work you put in
great in-depth analysis on the mouses!
I would be interested to see the effects of DPI has on these curves, 1600 is pretty standard for an average user but people play at all sorts of dpi's, and I imagine with more less dots per inch the absolute variance in counts should be lower. Doesn't really solve the polling rate issue which it seems like is the source of the problem. Maybe the board on the logitech just cannot reliably handle 1000Hz, would it be more consistent at 500hz?
I'll just casually bring up these questions here in case you're interested too and it ends up being a video and I'll benefit from it. Don't have the mice to test myself T_T
I Had the X Superlight for about 6 months, but the mouse wheel sort of broke (sometimes it scrolls, sometimes it doesn't, and sometimes it scrolls when I just touch the scroll wheel), so I might have to look in the Razer territory. This video is kinda helping me to decide.
Very interesting! Based on the data that you're seeing and subjective feel which would you prefer between the FM vs M2K? I have the SL Pro and M2k and I seem to play similar if not slightly better with M2K just based on Kovaak's average scores. *Runs out to buy Viper v2*
Awesome tests!