yeah that resolution was hilarious. Not 480, not even 360, but 192 😂 Luckily the commentary was good because without it sometimes you wouldn't exactly know what was going on. To be fair iirc you could get higher resolution if you paid for it
Epic finals, probably the greatest in SC2 history. Shame you didnt mention the storylines leading up to this. Squirtle was the best PvT player at the time and he was walking the royal road in his first Code S, meanwhile Mvp was considered mostly washed but had taken down all the other best protoss at the time including Parting and Naniwa by mostly cheesing or doing scv pulls so people were expecting that in this series. Instead he played mostly timings and macro until the last game on the biggest map when Squirtle would expect it the least. Crazy turn arounds with the archon toilet and the brilliant 4 marine flank, thats why they call him the GOAT.
Also remembered that. He was not favored going into it if I recall and there was also the stupid Naniwa drama if I remember right?! A really nice storyline.
Bisu vs savior when Bisu first used the Bisu build and essentially standardized fast expand vs zerg. It's difficult for those who dont know the history to appreciate that game
Thanks for reminding me of this great series! Someone from my old StarCraft II gaming club sent it to me. I have lots of great memories of staying up until 2am to watch you on GSL with my dad!
I don’t think so, I saw the title and knew the exact finals this would be about. Honestly just a beautiful series at an insane point in the game’s history
@@Frodonsake24 ppl don't cheer at vortex bc its a vortex, they cheer when plot twists happen and their expectations are not met. Game would be boring if you realize who will win 10 minutes before the final battle. Not saying the game is good tho, i prefer sc1 philosophy. For me, sc1 feels like metal where 2 feels like plastic.
@@petercriscuola Those were just examples. Every version had so many bad mechanics that anyone that loves Broodwar will see SC2 as a huge downgrade, except the fantasy LARPer type of people that just enjoy the immersion and graphical enhancements.
I get that the BC Vortex is the greatest moment in SC2 history, and this is an INCREDIBLE finals (second best), but the MMA vs DongRaeGu finals from Blizzard Cup 2011 was even better, with Game 7 being the best game of SC2 ever played.
Everyone talks about the Beta Photon Cannons that could slowly move.... but would that have really been that bad compared to all the other badly balanced sht in sc2?? lol
I can still remember that 2rax proxy. It was such a nice storyline - if i recall at the time MVP was already very much suffering from the injury. I was not mad at all at his choice of strategy in that last map. It was really great and I still remember this match.
The Maru vs TY GSL 2018 season 3 finals is probably the best finals ever. Both players showed up and played at an insane level and the games were super close and down to a nail biting game 7. The level that the game/players were at then compared to 2012 helps tip the scale, as well.
Battlecruisers were so much better balanced back then when they were energy-based. The skill level of SC2 now is insane, and it's exponentially better than back then. Truly an example of "standing on the shoulders of giants." That first single marine and single marauder drop by Mvp with zero micro reminds me how people thought you had to target-fire the banelings while standing still until Marineking invented splitting. Now Terran players just life up and run away and micro in seven places at once.
you know this actually made me realise why protoss is in the position that is in, relying on splash damage to get a statistical advantage, with the arbiter that wasn't the case necessarily as they could just freeze units to get a statistical advantage in a fight, the sentry with its force fields tries to emulate this without removing the agency of the enemy player, it just sucks because enemy gets a lot of counter play and it's difficult to make proper forcefields plays and the enemy can still shoot over the force fields so if you send in zealots they will still get shot from the other side of force fields. and the phoenix which tries to do something similar to the arbiter with the graviton beam it just puts the phoenix in a freeze too so you don't really get a numerical advantage and they can be shot down just as much as the enemy that gets picked up by its graviton beam so that just sucks. and well the stasis ward from the oracle is also very easy to out play as you can just send in a cheap sacrificial unit to completely negate it and it takes set up time to get also, so every choice protoss has to eliminate numerical advantage by the other two races without relying on splash to do so just falls short because they don't have arbiters which makes it just important for protoss to rely on high templars, colossi and disruptors which really can't stack up to reavers even with their duds. high templars requiring energy, colossi being extremely vulnerable and costly, disruptors who are a huge liability to your own units just as much as it is theirs and is on a very long cooldown between shots which can be dodged. could you imagine having an arbiter or a reaver in sc2 as protoss?
I remember watching this as a preteen and being totally mindblown. I think I had finished the campaign and was trying to get out of bronze in 1v1. I was in love with starcraft after that
I was playing during this time, but I was in college and was very stingy paying any subscriptions, so even though GSL wasn't a bad price I never paid for it. First time I saw the GSL games from early WOL was a lot of years later on the SCVOD Archives stream. I like weird maps as a way to shake the game up. I always had a lot of fun playing on island containing maps. That one that had an island top right and both expansion patterns sent you towards each other and gold base in the bottom left was so cool. They even had air slow zones to fix the rush distance between mains since both mains were close by air.
I think there is a good case for 2012 being the peak of SC2. Korea was a bit far for me, but I was fortunate enough to see the GSL Finals in Vegas at IPL5, which also featured an unknown upstart game called League of something.
I like your takes on needing rushes. I have never been a big fan of rushing and enjoy the long games, but they are cheapened by being a default. It's bad when cheese is all you can do and when macro is all you can really do. It's easier to appreciate the player when you feel like they are making the cheese or long game work and not just that's how it needs to be all else equal.
some distant memory in my brain vaguely connects with this comment. ah yes, i am connecting that memory to an emotion. that emotion is excitement. I am thinking you are right that this was a sick match of tvt. what a throw back
I totally get your point about 1 sided matches. I was with a couple of friends at an esl finals at Cebit in Germany 10 years ago. The Mothership core in hots was not figured out at all at that time. Protoss smacked the Terran 4:0 in a few minutes walking down the map with core and maybe 3 to 5 gateway units. They do a better job at bw to make matches interesting with maps imo. And BTW I hated that buggy low reso gom player 😘
Yeah, last 2 months of WoL were the best. Broodlord infestor was nerfed and games were really interesting and different. Every race had multiple styles: you could've turtled, you could've timing pushed, you could've all-ined, and you could've done all of that with a variety of different openings.
I remember I skipped school so I could watch this live. It started in the morning in Europe. That was such a good day, great memory :)
I remember watching this live on the shitty old GoMplayer in like 192p resolution. Best series ever.
Gom days and questions where great. I forgot about this map introduction thing they did
yeah that resolution was hilarious. Not 480, not even 360, but 192 😂 Luckily the commentary was good because without it sometimes you wouldn't exactly know what was going on. To be fair iirc you could get higher resolution if you paid for it
Truly the best days. Also, all this was happening at like 2 AM lol
Epic finals, probably the greatest in SC2 history. Shame you didnt mention the storylines leading up to this. Squirtle was the best PvT player at the time and he was walking the royal road in his first Code S, meanwhile Mvp was considered mostly washed but had taken down all the other best protoss at the time including Parting and Naniwa by mostly cheesing or doing scv pulls so people were expecting that in this series. Instead he played mostly timings and macro until the last game on the biggest map when Squirtle would expect it the least. Crazy turn arounds with the archon toilet and the brilliant 4 marine flank, thats why they call him the GOAT.
Also remembered that. He was not favored going into it if I recall and there was also the stupid Naniwa drama if I remember right?! A really nice storyline.
Bisu vs savior when Bisu first used the Bisu build and essentially standardized fast expand vs zerg. It's difficult for those who dont know the history to appreciate that game
Thanks for reminding me of this great series! Someone from my old StarCraft II gaming club sent it to me. I have lots of great memories of staying up until 2am to watch you on GSL with my dad!
love hearing the history of starcraft
Love these history shows. I've been watching you cast Starcraft for so long and it's nice to hear your reminisce about these games.
I don’t think so, I saw the title and knew the exact finals this would be about. Honestly just a beautiful series at an insane point in the game’s history
MVP was legitimately on top of the starcraft world for a bit. Truly a grandfather of the SC2 scene.
Squirtle's vortex in g5 of this series still has to be one of the most devastating plays in SC2 history
One of the many reasons that SC2 is garbage alongside the school-of-fish pathing, shield batteries that heal buildings, swarm hosts, and tempests.
@@Dziaji vortex is not in the game anymore.
swarm hosts u are right.
the game is not garbage, its still a great game.
@@Frodonsake24 ppl don't cheer at vortex bc its a vortex, they cheer when plot twists happen and their expectations are not met. Game would be boring if you realize who will win 10 minutes before the final battle. Not saying the game is good tho, i prefer sc1 philosophy. For me, sc1 feels like metal where 2 feels like plastic.
@@Frodonsake24 McDonalds is also globally popular, and makes toddlers very excited.
@@petercriscuola Those were just examples. Every version had so many bad mechanics that anyone that loves Broodwar will see SC2 as a huge downgrade, except the fantasy LARPer type of people that just enjoy the immersion and graphical enhancements.
I get that the BC Vortex is the greatest moment in SC2 history, and this is an INCREDIBLE finals (second best), but the MMA vs DongRaeGu finals from Blizzard Cup 2011 was even better, with Game 7 being the best game of SC2 ever played.
The archon toilet was great tbh lol.
Need to put those gomtv questions vids for artosis with John the translator on here lol
This brought back memories. We had a local esports crew that would do barcrafts and I remember watching this game at one of them. I miss those times.
squirtle was the pioneer of the archon toilet. he was also the one who pioneered immortal drops vs zerg /w crazy warp prism micro.
Watched it live, it was so intense
MVP had wrist issues but also a big issue with his back and neck.
and still he was winning, he was a beast.
Somebody was smoking something when they came up with that vortex.
Everyone talks about the Beta Photon Cannons that could slowly move.... but would that have really been that bad compared to all the other badly balanced sht in sc2?? lol
I can still remember that 2rax proxy. It was such a nice storyline - if i recall at the time MVP was already very much suffering from the injury. I was not mad at all at his choice of strategy in that last map. It was really great and I still remember this match.
forgot to add my personal favorite series which I believe was a series in quarters. Scarlett vs Bomber at the redbull battlegrounds.
Stayed up late to watch this one live, got 2 hours of sleep and went to go run a con the next day - such a solid and amazing memory!
The Maru vs TY GSL 2018 season 3 finals is probably the best finals ever. Both players showed up and played at an insane level and the games were super close and down to a nail biting game 7. The level that the game/players were at then compared to 2012 helps tip the scale, as well.
Battlecruisers were so much better balanced back then when they were energy-based. The skill level of SC2 now is insane, and it's exponentially better than back then. Truly an example of "standing on the shoulders of giants." That first single marine and single marauder drop by Mvp with zero micro reminds me how people thought you had to target-fire the banelings while standing still until Marineking invented splitting. Now Terran players just life up and run away and micro in seven places at once.
love the content, tasteless. especially because I watched every single one of these games and they are all very good memories.
Older sc2 days were so fun and hype. It's sad seeing gsl and stuff now. Like hardly any money in it
you know this actually made me realise why protoss is in the position that is in, relying on splash damage to get a statistical advantage, with the arbiter that wasn't the case necessarily as they could just freeze units to get a statistical advantage in a fight, the sentry with its force fields tries to emulate this without removing the agency of the enemy player, it just sucks because enemy gets a lot of counter play and it's difficult to make proper forcefields plays and the enemy can still shoot over the force fields so if you send in zealots they will still get shot from the other side of force fields.
and the phoenix which tries to do something similar to the arbiter with the graviton beam it just puts the phoenix in a freeze too so you don't really get a numerical advantage and they can be shot down just as much as the enemy that gets picked up by its graviton beam so that just sucks.
and well the stasis ward from the oracle is also very easy to out play as you can just send in a cheap sacrificial unit to completely negate it and it takes set up time to get also, so every choice protoss has to eliminate numerical advantage by the other two races without relying on splash to do so just falls short because they don't have arbiters which makes it just important for protoss to rely on high templars, colossi and disruptors which really can't stack up to reavers even with their duds. high templars requiring energy, colossi being extremely vulnerable and costly, disruptors who are a huge liability to your own units just as much as it is theirs and is on a very long cooldown between shots which can be dodged.
could you imagine having an arbiter or a reaver in sc2 as protoss?
Love listening to your stories to watch back on tasteless
that dude in the chat asking 100 questions at the start, then when someone subtly lets him know to stfu, he just goes 'xD'
lol
I remember watching this as a preteen and being totally mindblown. I think I had finished the campaign and was trying to get out of bronze in 1v1. I was in love with starcraft after that
I was playing during this time, but I was in college and was very stingy paying any subscriptions, so even though GSL wasn't a bad price I never paid for it. First time I saw the GSL games from early WOL was a lot of years later on the SCVOD Archives stream.
I like weird maps as a way to shake the game up. I always had a lot of fun playing on island containing maps. That one that had an island top right and both expansion patterns sent you towards each other and gold base in the bottom left was so cool. They even had air slow zones to fix the rush distance between mains since both mains were close by air.
I remember watching this live at like 2am and after Squirtle went down 3-0 I almost went to bed. So glad I didn’t because what a series.
I think there is a good case for 2012 being the peak of SC2.
Korea was a bit far for me, but I was fortunate enough to see the GSL Finals in Vegas at IPL5, which also featured an unknown upstart game called League of something.
I love these type of videos
I like your takes on needing rushes. I have never been a big fan of rushing and enjoy the long games, but they are cheapened by being a default. It's bad when cheese is all you can do and when macro is all you can really do. It's easier to appreciate the player when you feel like they are making the cheese or long game work and not just that's how it needs to be all else equal.
MVP runs a coffee shop? Thats interesting. I wonder if the sc2 winnings helped him set it up without real debt and made his life easier. Who knows
Sad i never seen sc2 live yet and missed its hey day. I want to look as seeing ASL live next year. Never seen a esport game in person b4
Player presenter voice: "IM Naastyy" (IM Nestea) : Tastosis : "Aahhhhhh!"
th-cam.com/video/fEATroooOCw/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Game_Planner
Maybe you can do a video about Flash vs Innovation Neo Planet S MLG 2013 game 2, one of the best mech vs bio TvTs I've ever seen.
some distant memory in my brain vaguely connects with this comment. ah yes, i am connecting that memory to an emotion. that emotion is excitement. I am thinking you are right that this was a sick match of tvt. what a throw back
tastless this cast was great. If you plan to do more, please do DRG vs MMA. One of the sickest series of WoL!
Early SC2 was a magical time
ahhhh i remember this one... the archon toilet
I love these nostalgic videos!
I totally get your point about 1 sided matches. I was with a couple of friends at an esl finals at Cebit in Germany 10 years ago. The Mothership core in hots was not figured out at all at that time. Protoss smacked the Terran 4:0 in a few minutes walking down the map with core and maybe 3 to 5 gateway units.
They do a better job at bw to make matches interesting with maps imo.
And BTW I hated that buggy low reso gom player 😘
Really miss vortex, mothership has never been the same.
Y'all remember protoss playing in tournament finals? Pepperidge farms remembers
The ARCHON Toilet!
BTW you can target with bunkers
Hi Tasteless. Make a reaction video on the GSL finals games between Byun vs SOS.
ah yes a cylindrical redbull can
I love squirtle. He’s back but not really playing that much right ??
i wish i could still play WOL ladder.
Love this kind of content!
Great vid flavorless
the GOAT! MVP man!!
i liked original SC2 WOL the best, honestly. Once HOTS came out I kinda lost interest, didn't like the new units.
That meta of slowly grinding down Terran and protoss with free units from swarm host,broodlord and infestor was so bad for the game
Yeah, last 2 months of WoL were the best. Broodlord infestor was nerfed and games were really interesting and different. Every race had multiple styles: you could've turtled, you could've timing pushed, you could've all-ined, and you could've done all of that with a variety of different openings.
awesome game! wow!
Was this pre or post Kespa? The skill level was pretty terrible before Kespa got involved, from what I remember.
Sorry but Oliviera one is the best SC2 final.
Never
This series was not that special Tasteless. The lessor player(Squirtle) prolonged it with that crazy vortex but MVP ran all over him in the next map.