every time Jeremy says "outta nowhere"... I get visions of john cena in my head I realise its Randy Orton's thing, but Cena's theme just comes into my head...
Mid with smite was a powerful pick when runeglaive was introduced. Ezreal was destroying LCS before the nerfs, and testing showed that pretty much any champion could use it.
Vanory oh, was doing this b4 runeglaive and after runeglaive changes/nerfs, i still do it now in high diamonds/chall games and thats like saying any1 who takes flash tp top is playing the meta, or any1 playing adc with flash heal and build ie is a meta pick
Two things: 1. feel like innovative is the wrong word for some of these champs. Things like TF jung, or Hec mid or other champs that were seen only a couple times in competitive don't really feel innovative because they didn't become long term sticks or priority picks. Yes they are new and creative but, I also think change need to be considered when bringing up champs. Champs like Annie/Naut/Morg support, AD Caster Varus/Soraka/AP Kog/Lulu mid, or Lulu/AD Fizz/ Elise top stuck for a while and even became ban worthy and where whole team comps followed a playstyle that meshed around them were innovative. 2. some of the champ picks were not properly credited. I remember that Soraka and Nautilus were being played in the LPL before it was brought to LCS. Most meta picks are played overseas first since they are about 2 weeks ahead of us.
The Oily Boily Guy Also Elementz from team Curse at the time always wanted to play Nautilus support since season 2, he was just stuck on a team that didn't like him and they wouldn't let him do it. Well Saint and him didn't get along and Saint was captain.
The Oily Boily Guy i generally agree with you with one expetion: tf jungle even though he wasnt played a lot in the competitive scene, shortly after he was played first riot changed the monster camps so tf coulndt be jungled anymore. (they canged it so the monsters fully reset after i think 5 "soft restes") so it has had some impact on the game
Well said. It's easy to think everything originates from LCS when you only watch LCS. Almost every innovative pick (a champion being played in an unorthodox/non-standard position) or build came from the east first and most troll picks have come from the west. It may seem like Hecarim or Urgot mid and others are contested picks so therefore have become meta champions but the truth is that's only true in NA/EU and the picks are very region specific (meaning that region just hasn't learned to play against it properly). Just look at TSM using Urgot mid in MSI and it's obvious that these "dominant" picks are just signs that a region can't adapt to cheese properly. Why? Probably due to the low number of best of series IMO.
***** Honestly everything has been done before it goes into competitive, but you can't always give credit to the guys from season 3 who "did it first".
Tricksterboom I don't know, also the chance of olaf supp sticking is almost non existent. Olaf has almost no cc and with the gold of a support he's not going to be tanky enough to dive the backline or split push. It might work if you can snowball super hard, but doing that against the best players, with a champion with one of the hardest skillshots in the game is wishful thinking.
***** But we're talking competitive and it was a pretty big deal there. While in korea the agressive support meta of thresh, annie and leona from worlds remained, Europe and North Amreica shifted away from that, just due to the popularity of morgana. It was one of the biggest shifts in power in season 4, that were player and not patch based.
Kinda true since it really counterpicked the whole meta of support tanks, but I'm not sure if it would count as a whole new innovation. After all, it was still heard of to play Morgana Support, and most of the surprise was that it was played in competitive, rather than that it was played at all.
Tank Ekko. Upon release, people played Ekko as an assassin, and saw it was pretty strong. Then, after a couple weeks, people realized that building him like Diana as an AP bruiser was completely broken.
Noah Weisbrod Going from pure AP to AP bruiser isn't that innovative. Especially when you're doing it "like Diana", who went through the same phases. These picks are really outside the box, like ap mid laners going into the jungle, pure supports going ap mid, etc. Things that are really outside the box.
Noah Weisbrod You are right, but he's been around for only 2 months. And technically it wasn't even innovative. The pros saw that Ekko as an AP carry sucked, so they built him full tank since you could still do damage with Ekko's base damages. And TBH, I've never seen AP Bruiser Ekko. He isn't actually played as a bruiser at all in the same way Diana is. Its either basically full AP or full tank regarding competitive history.
Noah Weisbrod on reliese I played only tank Ekko, because I wasnt blind looking at his skill base damage and overall kit... even if rito wanted to believe that ekko should have build ap i didnt trust them, because they fukup many things anyway. like ryze w
I know the video is about competitive picks (so, Champions picked by pros during an event/tournament). But for anyone interested on a little trivia, Nautilus support was invented by Nhat Nguyen a long time ago. He played him on his stream, alongside with Leona at a time when Leona was considered trash-tier support.
Wait wait waaaiiit. They nerf every innovative pick and crush peoples dreams of trying somthing new BUT 1.Graves cant have a cigar 2.You wont nerf the godang juggernauts 3. Teemo still exists 4.You created Illaoi
+Jonah Thomas Because instead of giving a bunch of champs cool buffs every few patches they just nerf everything, so nothing is cool anymore.................BUT IN DOTA-
I really gotta say... I may not entirely agree with his choices all the time, but the lists are really well thought out and explained. I'm enjoying this series. I feel like I could honestly write a paper on the gameplay history of League from these alone.
Twanglet u need 2 reexamine your idea of "support" people like Brand and Nidalee are NOT supports , they don't bring anything to their marksman , vel'koz 2 but unlike them he has descent peel and he could engage pretty descently wiht good positioning so i'll let it slide.
+ironmilutin Nidalee cand be a pretty good support . I have never tryed her , but think about it , she has a nice poke with her Q in lane and a heal. Nidalee can be very good in passive lanes .
Kaser1 - Gaming lets see , her heal is shit unless you build 200 AP that you dont do since you're playing support , her poke is also bad unless you have a lot of AP , her w is bad vision , and her cuguar form is useless . her attack speed boost is ok but if you want her for attack speed get nunu instead , he has more cc more zone control and he also gives movepeed together with attack speed and gives it for longer
Urgot got played in solo lanes fairly often when he was released. He was considered a strong pick for a brief time due to his sniper-like lock on range, that could kill from fog of war. I think bigfatlp (jiji at the time), was one of the players who was good at him, and played him in a few tournament matches on clg. This was back in 2010-11 though, so it's technically in league's infancy, but iirc at that time the meta was stabilizing.
Faker's Zilean mid and whoever took lulu to the top lane as well. Zilean was not unseen mid, but it was still controversial when Faker brought him up from the dirt. To the Soraka Mid, i remember Dyrus did it in his early streams in season 1 and 2. He did the Mordekaiser 13 pots start and the spellvamp Soraka and i still think Dyrus kinda invented a lot of the cheesy picks until season 3 where the game started to be more balanced.
the thing with lulu was that since she got nerfed mid people would put her top, just like lissandra. Zilean always had those insane ratios so people would try it forever and then faker picked it and every picked it up again.
I feel like the title should have been "Innovative picks in LCS history" I've seen pretty much all of these outside of competitive before it became "meta".
Back to season 2, we got Nunu that made a strong appearance on bot lane support, as team Empire picked him and made one of the strongest combo of all time. Nunu was, at the time, an invisible champion and considered unviable (like season 2 Soraka and Sivir). That was the first time a team chose to pick him.
Just won a game with an unusual team comp. Our team: Zilean Support top (me) Mordekaiser Top, Lucian solo bot, Galio solo Mid, Warwick Jungle. Enemy team: Morgana Support Bot, Katarina solo Mid, Darius solo Top, Amumu Jungle, Miss Fortune ADC bot.
This criticism might come in a little harsh but I really need to clarify things. #8 Keane wasn't the guy with the innovative Urgot pick. Faker did it 1-2 weeks before him, spamming Urgot Mid, and he simply noticed that. All Keane did was copying Faker's Urogt and Faker's playstyle with him. #7 You probably don't play/follow LoL since Season 1. Otherwise you would knew that Alistar Top (and Mid) was the most contestet and famous pick back around the time of the Season 1 World Championship. I guess the guy who invented it was Shushei, who also invented full AP Gragas Mid and Top (at least he was the most known player for full AP Gragas and Alistar). Right after the Finals Alistar got a huge nerf and wasn't played again. If you're going by innovative Item Builds and not Picks, then yeah, the Top Lane off-tank AP/AD Alistar was pretty innovative. #6 The Hecarim Mid was definitely Innovative but I can't understand why you say at 3:54 that Heca Mid let to him being so popular at the Top Lane. He was played several times at Top Lane during the past months after Keane picked him up for Mid. So he already was very popular on Top before that. So that's definitely wrong. #5 Definitely right. I guess Alex Ich was probably the first or one of the first to pick up Master Yi in competetive play. However, AP Master Yi was already well known several months before he got picked up. So he's the only one in your list who was already played a lot as AP in the Mid Lane but simply didn't see competetive light. So actually that's not that much of an innovation. The Number 1 is definitely deserved. However, you're missing a lot of awesome Innovations that arguably deserve being in this list like a lot of the comments already mentioned. AP Kog'Maw, AP Lulu Top/Mid, Varus Mid and then there's Faker who alone in the past couple of months played some crazy stuff in LCK like AD Master Yi Mid, Irelia Mid, Urgot Mid like mentioned earlier and even Riven Mid goes way back to him in Season 3.
+TheUltimateEbil Some creative and innovative strategies. Let's nerf it and make them even more linear cause fuck creativity. What if Valve removed the select reload trick on AWP cause that wasn't the original speed or patch every new trick people come up with in tf2 cause that's not how they were mean't to be used
+magnusm4 its innovative when it comes out, obviously if they are too much good is going to be nerfed or you would see it on every game and ending to be innovative... and you still got the games before it gets nerfed or you still want the actual tank ekko being viable? the ezreal mid with smite? the ap tryndamere? etc etc etc
i think one of the most important innovations was jarvan jungle actually. fnatic pulled it off at a time when only champions with built-in sustain like nunu and warwick were considered viable junglers, and it helped set the meta just as much as their lane setup aswell as making the whole community rethink and reconsider how the game could be played.
***** Yes. Go watch their Spring playoffs vs GMB. They crushed Games 2-4. They also dominated plenty in the Spring. They were too inconsistent in the Summer, unfortunately.
what about the time alex ich brought out eve in the mid lane and everyone was like holy shit wtf, eve is like the worst champion ever, then after the game in an interview alex ich said "i only play op champs"
I was at IEM San Jose when Kikis pulled out the Jungle TF. Me and my friends that were there just started looking at each other in pure awe. It was crazy to say the least. LOL
I felt like AD Fizz (right after his minor rework) was really innovative as it completely turned the champion on its head and is a pick that even after heavy nerfs is still playable.
The season 3 WC was the first time i got into e-sport. I still remember how amazed i was to see a pick like Annie support, at the time I thought it was a pro thing to use a champ in such a peculiar way. Little did I knew i witnessed the most innovative pick in the competitive scene :p.
I remember that urgot mid was pretty popular in season 1. And I also think that most picks didn't come out of nowhere. A lot were pretty popular in soloQ or didn't fit the meta for some time, because of strong counters. Once the meta shifted, they used those champs again.
Annie support was firt talked about competivly when they had those show matches on the 1v1/2v2 map where she proved to be one of the strongest picks 2v2 and was already well known by the time worlds rolled around, it was just the first time the people that only follow NA or EU LCS saw it.
ToReb LoL I agree and do not agree with you at the same time, because Ezreal when he was released worked better as an Ad-Carry since of his Scalings on Q and the Range!
Rocku HD both arent innovative, kog maw mid was played by froggen back in season 1 or 2, so its nothing new at all, its just the ludens and the poke and tank meta that make him so strong atm. ap ezreal mid has always been a thing...
Nautilus support was played by YellowStar before LemonNation, if only due to EU games being before NA games in the week, but the first play is still miscredited
When you said ap Master Yi I started to smile. Ah the memories. It's nice to see a list with new and retro content. Could you do a top ten cheeses or something like that?
+Toren Howell thats still a mage helping out your team, honestly i prefer a support mage getting fed with me and sharing the cs with them so they can better protect my early game and get me kills and assists in lane... its much easier to be defended in lane and form ganks because my support is also a lethal threat, just focusing adc doesn't mean that they'll win the trade in lane an also helps kill and protect form jg ganks
+Toren Howell That is not an Annie support. Annie support utilizes her high range and good base damage to poke and harass early, and to protect the ADC from engages with a stun. Later on she receives a huge dmg threat with her ult as all Annies have in all lanes since forever. Annie will then use her Ult and stun to initiate fights and win using her CC. People who just build AP are not playing support properly. That is not a problem with Annie. Your same argument can be said for Zyra, also a typical mage who got popularized for her control abilities, and got popular as a support pick.
Lakes people can build ap or ad as a support. supports aren't supposed to be a fuckin tank anymore since mages started becomgin supports. in fact going full no dmg tank with those items that YOU want them to have nullifies them as a threat as they've no longer any damage and only cc. so guess what that means as annie support? congrats, you've one small are stun... thats all...
Btw I like the new outro! But I think it would be better if you concluded the list/topic at least a little before the outro music and animation. I actually had no idea Annie Support has been common for so long, probably because I haven't really paid attention to the competitive scene until the middle of 2014. I'm also extremely surprised at how regular and accepted Annie Support is right now in the community. I always thought Annie Support is good ever since it came out, but I never thought it would become so representative of the Support role as much as champions like Sona and Soraka and Lulu. I have a friend who's about level 15, and he told me he couldn't really Support at the moment because (direct quote) "The only support I have is Annie." Also, rip AP Yi. I actually wish it would come back. Its playstyle was kinda like the old Zilean or URF Mode (to a much lesser extent); just spam your Q and blow everyone up while surviving with op heals.
You missed by far the biggest one. When Soaz picked nunu against wickd in their 1v1 to see who would go to All Stars. Nunu top was the start of the "Annoying top lane meta" which is the longest running top lane meta to date. People realised that these super annoying near unkillable laners who scaled decently into the mid game due to utility were actually super good against the late game jax and akali top picks at the time. This heralded nunu, lulu, soraka, sion(old and new), yorick, maokai, (after his rework) shyvana and alistar to the top lane. This meta only ended recently when sion and maokai were nerfed.
What about that one time during the EU LCS spring split this year, when Kikis from UOL picked Shaco and split pushed the entire game which ended up looking like a complete stomp
Really nice video, I'm slightly surprised iralia mid did not get some love in this video but other than that, wonderful video and keep up the good work bud!
So what about Maokai top back when he got those big buffs? (I can't remember when it was but it was either mid to late season 4 or really early season 5.)
No mention of Diamondprox's Shyvana jungle, that basically invented counter-jungling and shaped the way the jungler role is played to this day, even leading to Riot creating a dedicated counter-jungling item in season 5. The dude basically changed the way the game was played, but hey let's give the second place to Voy's tankarina, that has never had any real impact in competitive or soloQ. Incredible.
a couple i'd like to mention, ad carry/bruiser thresh (though that was right after release, so he hadn't been put in a proper roll yet) along with ap rek'sai, adc kennen
No love for AP Twisted Fate Mid? It's been around for such a long time that most people don't know that when he was released, he was meant as an ADC. If I remember correctly, one of his suggested items was Sword of Divine. I forget who played him as an AP mid first, but Riot even changed his kit to be more of an AP carry, than an ADC.
Morgana Support, Varus Mid, AP Kog Mid, Lulu Mid/Top and even so this goes back to Season 1 AP Gragas and Alistar Mid. And one thing about Annie in competitive now that I already entered Season1, she was played by Reginald (TSM) in Season 1 WCS.
Mundo and Shyvanna top (from the start of S4) might've been on this list (they were originally junglers), but I don't even remember who started playing them, so idk.
Despite bunch of nerfs happened, Nautalius support, Annie support is still somewhat a very op option today, even Nautalius got support item starting as default
I played a solo queue game not long ago and went a typical Teemo top, tried to build tankmo, but couldn't because I faced Zed. Zed is normally a mid lane assassin right? So I was completely taken off guard as his CC destroyed me and I never got it going in lane phase. I was pissed.
What's funny is when people in season 3 didn't know how broken Annie truly was. She got me to silver back then before she was even considered a support and then Tabe ruined my freelo :(
Nautilus support was a rare thing but was still a thing before season 5 though, he functioned like leona somewhat but with more harassing abilities and less all in damage. TF jungle is tenth but how about heimerdinger jungle? I think that was done somewhere in the 3rd or 4th season, I forgot by who though, and that particular game was played like no other. I predict ADC kayle to break the meta soon ;)
i actually picked nautillus as suport in the 3rd season, i think the suport fiddle would be an honorable mention, as well as jungle pantheon on the 3rd season.
I do rly have to protest that Lemonation was first out with nautilus support, played it for 3 months as a main supp to go in ranked before the C9 vs TL match. Me and my DuoQ partner got the idea cause we wanted to find someone who wasnt ban worthy at the time and had a lot of cc, so we came up with nautilus, the king off cc! I dont agree that you can say that some people in pro play got up with the idea since im betting ive played a lot of these champions in that role before they came up with it in proplay, urgot mid for excample have been played a lot in somewhat high ELO before it was used in pro play, just not as popular. The thing about LCS and stuff is that once its played there its SUPER popular and therefore Riot nerfs it :D
AD Bruiser Nidalee top.Innovated by Stanley from Taipei Assassins,as a splitpusher (with chalice and Trinity Force) vs Moscow Fice in Season two Semi-finals.Eventually she came back as a top tier pick in season i believe 4,right before the changes they did to her (ult avaliable at lvl 1,longer W the higher rank you get etc.),She stopped being played after Riot nuked down AD ratio on her Q and gave her AP ratio on Q instead.
i definitely think mid jayce should be on this list or mid varus. jayce was originally a top laner and then nobody thought he was good after the e nerfs but then someone played him mid and he became a really op mid laner and varus mid became insanely popular around the world after power of evil picked him
I don't know why people are always missing old AP Gragas from Riot point of view it was supposed to be a ad tank until in S1 World Champions Shushei brought it to live - enemy teams had to ban 2 picks from him AP Gragas and AP Alistar they lost 2 bans or lost . AP Gragas was played since S1 up to S4 until rework and was still seen as a strong AP toplaner until again getting nerfed but well ppl forget S1 as a thing
I think you missed Morgana support. This pick back in S2 I think became so pervasive that to this day people aren't even aware that Morgana was originally a mid. (Zyra is similar but not as old).
Zilean was pretty much played more as a mid laner than as a support in the past, until about a year ago, when he started being played as a support a lot (though I don't know why he emerged as a support). And when Riot reworked him so that his Ult can't be rewinded, his bombs are skillshots, and stacking two bombs can stun, he became even more of a support. But Zilean mid is still secret op and I've seen other people play it a lot in Challenger streams.
Yousef Azhar Zilean became a support because his passive allowed all sololanes to hit lvl 6 way before the enemies did, so you had a big window to all in your enemy with your ultimate as they don´t have one of their own. He also provided his own ultimate to revive allies.
Peter Hausfrau That's part of the reason but it's always been there. It has only been nerfed to affecting nearby allies after Zilean Support became popular, and it was still popular after the nerf.
I think the outtro of your videos was better when you filmed yourself talking/asking us to suscribe/like the video. Just my two cents, keep up the good work!
Well Nautilus was one of my first Champions as I started playing league and I always played him support xD so what happend in Patch 5.1(idk if it was 5.1) with Nautilus that he became a more populare support ?
You really need to explain why these are good. Ap yi? Why was annie support seen as unviable and then turned out to be crazy popular? Some change in balance or just that she isn't focused as much as a support.
every time Jeremy says "outta nowhere"... I get visions of john cena in my head
I realise its Randy Orton's thing, but Cena's theme just comes into my head...
ManectricReturns Have u seen the "John Cena Ear Rape" if not go check it out... Just lower your headphone volume down abit c:
ManectricReturns im glad im not the only one....
You mean Lust Cena?
ManectricReturns isnt it randy orton that does the R.K.O outta nowhere?
ManectricReturns The fuck? That's Randy Orton.
So when I break the meta it's trolling, but when an LCS player breaks the meta it's innovative, aight.
Preston Smith when you break the meta and feed it's trolling :P according to people atleast, i play eve mid with smite sumtimes :D
l2noob4ul That was a thing 3 patches ago though :D
Vanory eve mid was a thing like s2 or s3 lol
Mid with smite was a powerful pick when runeglaive was introduced. Ezreal was destroying LCS before the nerfs, and testing showed that pretty much any champion could use it.
Vanory oh, was doing this b4 runeglaive and after runeglaive changes/nerfs, i still do it now in high diamonds/chall games
and thats like saying any1 who takes flash tp top is playing the meta, or any1 playing adc with flash heal and build ie is a meta pick
Two things:
1. feel like innovative is the wrong word for some of these champs. Things like TF jung, or Hec mid or other champs that were seen only a couple times in competitive don't really feel innovative because they didn't become long term sticks or priority picks. Yes they are new and creative but, I also think change need to be considered when bringing up champs. Champs like Annie/Naut/Morg support, AD Caster Varus/Soraka/AP Kog/Lulu mid, or Lulu/AD Fizz/ Elise top stuck for a while and even became ban worthy and where whole team comps followed a playstyle that meshed around them were innovative.
2. some of the champ picks were not properly credited. I remember that Soraka and Nautilus were being played in the LPL before it was brought to LCS. Most meta picks are played overseas first since they are about 2 weeks ahead of us.
The Oily Boily Guy Also Elementz from team Curse at the time always wanted to play Nautilus support since season 2, he was just stuck on a team that didn't like him and they wouldn't let him do it. Well Saint and him didn't get along and Saint was captain.
The Oily Boily Guy i generally agree with you with one expetion: tf jungle
even though he wasnt played a lot in the competitive scene, shortly after he was played first riot changed the monster camps so tf coulndt be jungled anymore. (they canged it so the monsters fully reset after i think 5 "soft restes")
so it has had some impact on the game
Well said. It's easy to think everything originates from LCS when you only watch LCS. Almost every innovative pick (a champion being played in an unorthodox/non-standard position) or build came from the east first and most troll picks have come from the west. It may seem like Hecarim or Urgot mid and others are contested picks so therefore have become meta champions but the truth is that's only true in NA/EU and the picks are very region specific (meaning that region just hasn't learned to play against it properly). Just look at TSM using Urgot mid in MSI and it's obvious that these "dominant" picks are just signs that a region can't adapt to cheese properly.
Why? Probably due to the low number of best of series IMO.
Bare in mind, Cowsep played TF Jungle first!
I know it wasn't competitive, but he gets no credit for it.
He got credit for it. I belive Kobe mentioned him before the UOL - TSM game started.
***** Oh fair!
***** Honestly everything has been done before it goes into competitive, but you can't always give credit to the guys from season 3 who "did it first".
tgamagedon Does that mean Lemonation gets credit when Olaf support becomes a thing?
Tricksterboom I don't know, also the chance of olaf supp sticking is almost non existent. Olaf has almost no cc and with the gold of a support he's not going to be tanky enough to dive the backline or split push. It might work if you can snowball super hard, but doing that against the best players, with a champion with one of the hardest skillshots in the game is wishful thinking.
Morgana support is missing.
tgamagedon you are right!
tgamagedon it is something that existed even in when i started playing in season 2 , so maybe no :P
***** But we're talking competitive and it was a pretty big deal there. While in korea the agressive support meta of thresh, annie and leona from worlds remained, Europe and North Amreica shifted away from that, just due to the popularity of morgana. It was one of the biggest shifts in power in season 4, that were player and not patch based.
tgamagedon i started watching competitive the summer of 2014 so maybe u are right
Kinda true since it really counterpicked the whole meta of support tanks, but I'm not sure if it would count as a whole new innovation. After all, it was still heard of to play Morgana Support, and most of the surprise was that it was played in competitive, rather than that it was played at all.
Tank Ekko. Upon release, people played Ekko as an assassin, and saw it was pretty strong. Then, after a couple weeks, people realized that building him like Diana as an AP bruiser was completely broken.
Noah Weisbrod
Going from pure AP to AP bruiser isn't that innovative. Especially when you're doing it "like Diana", who went through the same phases. These picks are really outside the box, like ap mid laners going into the jungle, pure supports going ap mid, etc. Things that are really outside the box.
Cresting Light
I don't really think it was innovative on the players' part as much as it was shortsighted on Riot's part.
Noah Weisbrod You are right, but he's been around for only 2 months. And technically it wasn't even innovative. The pros saw that Ekko as an AP carry sucked, so they built him full tank since you could still do damage with Ekko's base damages. And TBH, I've never seen AP Bruiser Ekko. He isn't actually played as a bruiser at all in the same way Diana is. Its either basically full AP or full tank regarding competitive history.
RhinoLWwizard1674 Rod of Ages and Iceborn Gauntlet are really nice on him.
Noah Weisbrod on reliese I played only tank Ekko, because I wasnt blind looking at his skill base damage and overall kit... even if rito wanted to believe that ekko should have build ap i didnt trust them, because they fukup many things anyway. like ryze w
+1 to the outro Jeremy. not saying your old one was bad, just saying your new one flows better.
I know the video is about competitive picks (so, Champions picked by pros during an event/tournament). But for anyone interested on a little trivia, Nautilus support was invented by Nhat Nguyen a long time ago. He played him on his stream, alongside with Leona at a time when Leona was considered trash-tier support.
Wait wait waaaiiit.
They nerf every innovative pick and crush peoples dreams of trying somthing new
BUT
1.Graves cant have a cigar
2.You wont nerf the godang juggernauts
3. Teemo still exists
4.You created Illaoi
You made my dat
+NickfraPlays dat*
+NickfraPlays day* lmao.
+Jonah Thomas Because instead of giving a bunch of champs cool buffs every few patches they just nerf everything, so nothing is cool anymore.................BUT IN DOTA-
+Jonah Thomas juggernauts including Illaoi are not that bad.
I really gotta say... I may not entirely agree with his choices all the time, but the lists are really well thought out and explained. I'm enjoying this series. I feel like I could honestly write a paper on the gameplay history of League from these alone.
Couldn't agree more with the Annie support.
Jesus Christ Ap Yi... that was a nightmare...
I love Varus mid, I also think that Vel koz and brand support is pretty awesome
Twanglet u need 2 reexamine your idea of "support" people like Brand and Nidalee are NOT supports , they don't bring anything to their marksman , vel'koz 2 but unlike them he has descent peel and he could engage pretty descently wiht good positioning so i'll let it slide.
+ironmilutin Nidalee cand be a pretty good support . I have never tryed her , but think about it , she has a nice poke with her Q in lane and a heal. Nidalee can be very good in passive lanes .
No, nidalee support is not a good, maybe it was decent when nunu support was around
Kaser1 - Gaming lets see , her heal is shit unless you build 200 AP that you dont do since you're playing support , her poke is also bad unless you have a lot of AP , her w is bad vision , and her cuguar form is useless . her attack speed boost is ok but if you want her for attack speed get nunu instead , he has more cc more zone control and he also gives movepeed together with attack speed and gives it for longer
If you would play nida support you would get a lot of ap, you would just not get there as fast as jungler or mid
Urgot got played in solo lanes fairly often when he was released. He was considered a strong pick for a brief time due to his sniper-like lock on range, that could kill from fog of war. I think bigfatlp (jiji at the time), was one of the players who was good at him, and played him in a few tournament matches on clg. This was back in 2010-11 though, so it's technically in league's infancy, but iirc at that time the meta was stabilizing.
Faker's Zilean mid and whoever took lulu to the top lane as well. Zilean was not unseen mid, but it was still controversial when Faker brought him up from the dirt.
To the Soraka Mid, i remember Dyrus did it in his early streams in season 1 and 2. He did the Mordekaiser 13 pots start and the spellvamp Soraka and i still think Dyrus kinda invented a lot of the cheesy picks until season 3 where the game started to be more balanced.
the thing with lulu was that since she got nerfed mid people would put her top, just like lissandra. Zilean always had those insane ratios so people would try it forever and then faker picked it and every picked it up again.
Dong Lee That zilean mid was made popular by alex ich way before faker...
Wasn't the reason for the nautilus support the ever jumping kalista?
I feel like the title should have been "Innovative picks in LCS history" I've seen pretty much all of these outside of competitive before it became "meta".
+Jake Wion The thing is people play any-fucking-thing outside of competitive... Let alone normals.
Back to season 2, we got Nunu that made a strong appearance on bot lane support, as team Empire picked him and made one of the strongest combo of all time.
Nunu was, at the time, an invisible champion and considered unviable (like season 2 Soraka and Sivir). That was the first time a team chose to pick him.
someone link me that kata pick pls
i have some...research to do with it
Mauro Cruz i.ytimg.com/vi/ccUDkjc5xHI/maxresdefault.jpg
Couldn't find it without the words :(
Mauro Cruz xxsirsquishyxx.deviantart.com/art/Katarina-Drawing-384021968
Banshee704 description
thx
Mauro Cruz some "research" LOL
"Aaand that just about wraps it up... " great change to your outro, jeremy! :) keep going!
nice list - well put together :) #BTA30
***** Yes! Fantastic look at innovative, creative contributons, and the evolution of the game.
I recently tried out Naut support and it immediately became my new favorite thing
Just won a game with an unusual team comp.
Our team:
Zilean Support top (me)
Mordekaiser Top,
Lucian solo bot,
Galio solo Mid,
Warwick Jungle.
Enemy team:
Morgana Support Bot,
Katarina solo Mid,
Darius solo Top,
Amumu Jungle,
Miss Fortune ADC bot.
where to find your profile pic
Kostas Saringelos
Right over here: ^.^
www.zerochan.net/1565858
i
Kostas Saringelos
:3
probably a lvl 12 game lol
Thank you for that outro!!
It is 100% better than the old one!
Gj and nice video :)
Dude, where is trundle from Yellow :( :D
It was played in competetive before Yellow brought it out, so he shouldn't solely be given credit for that pick.
zimicar not as a support it wasn't
Ryuzaki A taiwan player I think M17 dreamer played it before yellowstar so you are wrong but yellowstar I believe was second in the competitive scene.
Ryuzaki Actually the LoL player Elementz played it in the challenger scene too if I recall correctly
***** This is true, Elementz pulled out Trundle support last year against Team 8 in the NACS.
This criticism might come in a little harsh but I really need to clarify things.
#8 Keane wasn't the guy with the innovative Urgot pick. Faker did it 1-2 weeks before him, spamming Urgot Mid, and he simply noticed that. All Keane did was copying Faker's Urogt and Faker's playstyle with him.
#7 You probably don't play/follow LoL since Season 1. Otherwise you would knew that Alistar Top (and Mid) was the most contestet and famous pick back around the time of the Season 1 World Championship. I guess the guy who invented it was Shushei, who also invented full AP Gragas Mid and Top (at least he was the most known player for full AP Gragas and Alistar). Right after the Finals Alistar got a huge nerf and wasn't played again. If you're going by innovative Item Builds and not Picks, then yeah, the Top Lane off-tank AP/AD Alistar was pretty innovative.
#6 The Hecarim Mid was definitely Innovative but I can't understand why you say at 3:54 that Heca Mid let to him being so popular at the Top Lane. He was played several times at Top Lane during the past months after Keane picked him up for Mid. So he already was very popular on Top before that. So that's definitely wrong.
#5 Definitely right. I guess Alex Ich was probably the first or one of the first to pick up Master Yi in competetive play. However, AP Master Yi was already well known several months before he got picked up. So he's the only one in your list who was already played a lot as AP in the Mid Lane but simply didn't see competetive light. So actually that's not that much of an innovation.
The Number 1 is definitely deserved. However, you're missing a lot of awesome Innovations that arguably deserve being in this list like a lot of the comments already mentioned. AP Kog'Maw, AP Lulu Top/Mid, Varus Mid and then there's Faker who alone in the past couple of months played some crazy stuff in LCK like AD Master Yi Mid, Irelia Mid, Urgot Mid like mentioned earlier and even Riven Mid goes way back to him in Season 3.
Most of these seem to end with 'Till it got nerfed' :(
+TheUltimateEbil
Some creative and innovative strategies. Let's nerf it and make them even more linear cause fuck creativity.
What if Valve removed the select reload trick on AWP cause that wasn't the original speed or patch every new trick people come up with in tf2 cause that's not how they were mean't to be used
+magnusm4 its innovative when it comes out, obviously if they are too much good is going to be nerfed or you would see it on every game and ending to be innovative... and you still got the games before it gets nerfed
or you still want the actual tank ekko being viable?
the ezreal mid with smite?
the ap tryndamere?
etc etc etc
Why haven't they nerfed tank yasuo OR tank akali
Gavin Mahoney
Wait tanky yasuo is a thing?
magnusm4 Unfortunately its the top lane yasuo thing with a Frozen Mallet/Triforce etc
i think one of the most important innovations was jarvan jungle actually. fnatic pulled it off at a time when only champions with built-in sustain like nunu and warwick were considered viable junglers, and it helped set the meta just as much as their lane setup aswell as making the whole community rethink and reconsider how the game could be played.
It wasn't "innovative" but the most surprising pick I have seen was when UoL took Poppy top and dominated.
Steven Ventris I'll call it innovative. Lets be honest here, when was the last time you saw a Poppy outside ARAM.
Luis Soto Hm. I thought "innovative" would be too strong a word for it otherwise I would have used it. But you make a fair point.
+CoCoa ^ lol this guy. UOL has never dominated a game. They've dominated plenty.
***** Yes. Go watch their Spring playoffs vs GMB. They crushed Games 2-4. They also dominated plenty in the Spring. They were too inconsistent in the Summer, unfortunately.
Probably too recent but yellowstar bringing out trundle support in 2015 was pretty crazy at the time. It's been a standard in 2016 so far
what about the time alex ich brought out eve in the mid lane and everyone was like holy shit wtf, eve is like the worst champion ever, then after the game in an interview alex ich said "i only play op champs"
I was at IEM San Jose when Kikis pulled out the Jungle TF. Me and my friends that were there just started looking at each other in pure awe. It was crazy to say the least. LOL
Lulu and ad nidalee top, gragas and nidalee JG,Lulu , ezreal , Riven and varus mid, volibear supp
ad fizz,kassadin and vayne top, kennen ADC , kayle and fizz jg ,
kennen supp
+matheus reis I wasnt too surprised by the ad fizz, I saw it coming really easily.
+matheus reis Technically gragas jungle wasn't so much of a suprise after they changed his kit, I'd say gragas top is the one that was more suprising.
I felt like AD Fizz (right after his minor rework) was really innovative as it completely turned the champion on its head and is a pick that even after heavy nerfs is still playable.
regular player break the meta= noob
pro player break the meta=omg new meta, i gonna play it in my next game
azmir johari yea right
The season 3 WC was the first time i got into e-sport. I still remember how amazed i was to see a pick like Annie support, at the time I thought it was a pro thing to use a champ in such a peculiar way. Little did I knew i witnessed the most innovative pick in the competitive scene :p.
no fiddle support?
im dissapointed.
Bloomex he was able to do that since season 1...
Kragh50 but no one did it until some point
Kragh50 Still was a very big deal when m5 did it.
+Kragh50 No one ever did fiddle support. It was either full AP in solo lanes and jungle or the occasional tank in jungle or it was trolling.
dude, people DID do fiddlesticks support for a very long while. It was even played in competitive games and dominated with m5.
I remember that urgot mid was pretty popular in season 1.
And I also think that most picks didn't come out of nowhere. A lot were pretty popular in soloQ or didn't fit the meta for some time, because of strong counters. Once the meta shifted, they used those champs again.
Take a shot every time he says ''took x by storm''
I dare you.
+Ben Wall woke 2 days later...
Another one every time he says nerfed
Annie support was firt talked about competivly when they had those show matches on the 1v1/2v2 map where she proved to be one of the strongest picks 2v2 and was already well known by the time worlds rolled around, it was just the first time the people that only follow NA or EU LCS saw it.
This could have been a top 20. so many missing for example
Ez mid
Ap kogmaw
Varus Mid
Lee mid
morg supp
Ezreal was supposed to be a midlaner since the game started. The innovatial pick is adc Ez ...
ToReb LoL I agree and do not agree with you at the same time, because Ezreal when he was released worked better as an Ad-Carry since of his Scalings on Q and the Range!
Louis B What about smite mid ezreal? That was so powerful that it actually got nerfed
Louis B Gangplank Support?
+Logoncal Not as annoying or potent as pre-nerf Blue Ez from S3.
Yo Jeremy, I'm curious, where do you get your thumbnail pictures or background pictures?
Ap ezreal mid? ap kog mid?
Rocku HD They already existed in season 1 and 2 if im not mistaken
Rocku HD both arent innovative, kog maw mid was played by froggen back in season 1 or 2, so its nothing new at all, its just the ludens and the poke and tank meta that make him so strong atm. ap ezreal mid has always been a thing...
Nautilus support was played by YellowStar before LemonNation, if only due to EU games being before NA games in the week, but the first play is still miscredited
annie "support" :L
When you said ap Master Yi I started to smile. Ah the memories. It's nice to see a list with new and retro content.
Could you do a top ten cheeses or something like that?
lol annie supp my ass does a supp have more kills than the adc and 400 ap thats not a supp thats a mage sent botlane.
+Toren Howell thats still a mage helping out your team, honestly i prefer a support mage getting fed with me and sharing the cs with them so they can better protect my early game and get me kills and assists in lane... its much easier to be defended in lane and form ganks because my support is also a lethal threat, just focusing adc doesn't mean that they'll win the trade in lane an also helps kill and protect form jg ganks
+Toren Howell That is not an Annie support. Annie support utilizes her high range and good base damage to poke and harass early, and to protect the ADC from engages with a stun. Later on she receives a huge dmg threat with her ult as all Annies have in all lanes since forever. Annie will then use her Ult and stun to initiate fights and win using her CC. People who just build AP are not playing support properly. That is not a problem with Annie.
Your same argument can be said for Zyra, also a typical mage who got popularized for her control abilities, and got popular as a support pick.
Lakes people can build ap or ad as a support. supports aren't supposed to be a fuckin tank anymore since mages started becomgin supports. in fact going full no dmg tank with those items that YOU want them to have nullifies them as a threat as they've no longer any damage and only cc. so guess what that means as annie support? congrats, you've one small are stun... thats all...
Tom de Bruijn you sound like an ass
Btw I like the new outro! But I think it would be better if you concluded the list/topic at least a little before the outro music and animation.
I actually had no idea Annie Support has been common for so long, probably because I haven't really paid attention to the competitive scene until the middle of 2014. I'm also extremely surprised at how regular and accepted Annie Support is right now in the community. I always thought Annie Support is good ever since it came out, but I never thought it would become so representative of the Support role as much as champions like Sona and Soraka and Lulu. I have a friend who's about level 15, and he told me he couldn't really Support at the moment because (direct quote) "The only support I have is Annie."
Also, rip AP Yi. I actually wish it would come back. Its playstyle was kinda like the old Zilean or URF Mode (to a much lesser extent); just spam your Q and blow everyone up while surviving with op heals.
You missed by far the biggest one. When Soaz picked nunu against wickd in their 1v1 to see who would go to All Stars. Nunu top was the start of the "Annoying top lane meta" which is the longest running top lane meta to date. People realised that these super annoying near unkillable laners who scaled decently into the mid game due to utility were actually super good against the late game jax and akali top picks at the time. This heralded nunu, lulu, soraka, sion(old and new), yorick, maokai, (after his rework) shyvana and alistar to the top lane. This meta only ended recently when sion and maokai were nerfed.
Is tanky Katarina still viable? It sounds pretty fun tbh
Many did not play early enough to remember this, but I think Shushei's AP mid Gragas and Alistar picks were deserving of recognition.
There's so much innovative picks so i recommend doing an episode 2 Jeremy x)
What about that one time during the EU LCS spring split this year, when Kikis from UOL picked Shaco and split pushed the entire game which ended up looking like a complete stomp
Yus!!! Jeremy!!! Finally!! A different ending to the video :*)Even better the music at the end is actually pretty kewl.
Really nice video, I'm slightly surprised iralia mid did not get some love in this video but other than that, wonderful video and keep up the good work bud!
So what about Maokai top back when he got those big buffs? (I can't remember when it was but it was either mid to late season 4 or really early season 5.)
No mention of Diamondprox's Shyvana jungle, that basically invented counter-jungling and shaped the way the jungler role is played to this day, even leading to Riot creating a dedicated counter-jungling item in season 5. The dude basically changed the way the game was played, but hey let's give the second place to Voy's tankarina, that has never had any real impact in competitive or soloQ.
Incredible.
a couple i'd like to mention, ad carry/bruiser thresh (though that was right after release, so he hadn't been put in a proper roll yet) along with ap rek'sai, adc kennen
Why does all footage from the older seasons (with the old SR map) seem to have a grey filter on it? :o
I saw a Tryndamere mid yesterday, and it actually worked, does that count?
No love for AP Twisted Fate Mid? It's been around for such a long time that most people don't know that when he was released, he was meant as an ADC. If I remember correctly, one of his suggested items was Sword of Divine. I forget who played him as an AP mid first, but Riot even changed his kit to be more of an AP carry, than an ADC.
good guy jeremy puts proper splash art on the thumbnail and then usual click-bait as a reward in the first title screen
I think Veigar support was more surprising than TF jungle at least, since he, for around 1 month, was pick or ban in competitive.
Morgana Support, Varus Mid, AP Kog Mid, Lulu Mid/Top and even so this goes back to Season 1 AP Gragas and Alistar Mid. And one thing about Annie in competitive now that I already entered Season1, she was played by Reginald (TSM) in Season 1 WCS.
I was playing tf jungle in season 4 btw, so are you sure it ahs not been a thing beforehand?
Mundo and Shyvanna top (from the start of S4) might've been on this list (they were originally junglers), but I don't even remember who started playing them, so idk.
Despite bunch of nerfs happened, Nautalius support, Annie support is still somewhat a very op option today, even Nautalius got support item starting as default
I played a solo queue game not long ago and went a typical Teemo top, tried to build tankmo, but couldn't because I faced Zed. Zed is normally a mid lane assassin right? So I was completely taken off guard as his CC destroyed me and I never got it going in lane phase. I was pissed.
YES finally a real outro. totally digging it.
I feel that the hybrid kennen in top lane also deserve a spot, due to it's wierd build patch and crazy duel potential
i must say this channel is the best channel about league of legends which is not based on this mainstream stuff everybody else does
nice work dude :)
Is tank kat top still viable?I want to try it
when was ap yi a thing? cause i remember playing yi when i started playing league, then i got flamed cause i wasnt playing him ap
LOVE the new outro jeremy!
Wheres the adc kennen which genja from moscow 5 suprised with?
What's funny is when people in season 3 didn't know how broken Annie truly was. She got me to silver back then before she was even considered a support and then Tabe ruined my freelo :(
Nautilus support was a rare thing but was still a thing before season 5 though, he functioned like leona somewhat but with more harassing abilities and less all in damage.
TF jungle is tenth but how about heimerdinger jungle? I think that was done somewhere in the 3rd or 4th season, I forgot by who though, and that particular game was played like no other.
I predict ADC kayle to break the meta soon ;)
i actually picked nautillus as suport in the 3rd season, i think the suport fiddle would be an honorable mention, as well as jungle pantheon on the 3rd season.
I do rly have to protest that Lemonation was first out with nautilus support, played it for 3 months as a main supp to go in ranked before the C9 vs TL match. Me and my DuoQ partner got the idea cause we wanted to find someone who wasnt ban worthy at the time and had a lot of cc, so we came up with nautilus, the king off cc! I dont agree that you can say that some people in pro play got up with the idea since im betting ive played a lot of these champions in that role before they came up with it in proplay, urgot mid for excample have been played a lot in somewhat high ELO before it was used in pro play, just not as popular. The thing about LCS and stuff is that once its played there its SUPER popular and therefore Riot nerfs it :D
AD Bruiser Nidalee top.Innovated by Stanley from Taipei Assassins,as a splitpusher (with chalice and Trinity Force) vs Moscow Fice in Season two Semi-finals.Eventually she came back as a top tier pick in season i believe 4,right before the changes they did to her (ult avaliable at lvl 1,longer W the higher rank you get etc.),She stopped being played after Riot nuked down AD ratio on her Q and gave her AP ratio on Q instead.
Hybrid Jungle TF experienced a brief rebirth around season 4 (or was it 5...?) in Diamond ranks when Devourer was a thing
i definitely think mid jayce should be on this list or mid varus. jayce was originally a top laner and then nobody thought he was good after the e nerfs but then someone played him mid and he became a really op mid laner and varus mid became insanely popular around the world after power of evil picked him
Bjerg Teemo or Trynda Yurner0s (The last one is a Spanish one but he did it on a national called DDH or "División de Honor")
Played Naut supp and top like 2-3 months before lemon picked him to lcs
was waiting for him to make it but didnt expect it to take that much time
what about the legendary ap support lee song?
Hey man, good job. Just discovered your videos and i love them. Keep up the good job!!
Never seen Urgot in a solo lane before... except for the M5 game 4 years ago where Genja 1v2'd his opponents AND won lane xD
I don't know why people are always missing old AP Gragas from Riot point of view it was supposed to be a ad tank until in S1 World Champions Shushei brought it to live - enemy teams had to ban 2 picks from him AP Gragas and AP Alistar they lost 2 bans or lost . AP Gragas was played since S1 up to S4 until rework and was still seen as a strong AP toplaner until again getting nerfed but well ppl forget S1 as a thing
I think you missed Morgana support. This pick back in S2 I think became so pervasive that to this day people aren't even aware that Morgana was originally a mid. (Zyra is similar but not as old).
I used to main Soraka mid :( I miss her old kit.
The should be a 2 List since there quite a few picks left that deserve a spot in my opinion. I personally missed the jungle nasus
What about Zilean mid and Nidalle jungle ?
Nidalee was shifted into the jungle by Riot, so it wasn't innovative
Odeio Google+ zilean was played mid since season 1
Zilean was pretty much played more as a mid laner than as a support in the past, until about a year ago, when he started being played as a support a lot (though I don't know why he emerged as a support).
And when Riot reworked him so that his Ult can't be rewinded, his bombs are skillshots, and stacking two bombs can stun, he became even more of a support. But Zilean mid is still secret op and I've seen other people play it a lot in Challenger streams.
Yousef Azhar Zilean became a support because his passive allowed all sololanes to hit lvl 6 way before the enemies did, so you had a big window to all in your enemy with your ultimate as they don´t have one of their own. He also provided his own ultimate to revive allies.
Peter Hausfrau That's part of the reason but it's always been there. It has only been nerfed to affecting nearby allies after Zilean Support became popular, and it was still popular after the nerf.
Jeremy I love your videos and get super excited whenever I see you in my subscription tab
I think the outtro of your videos was better when you filmed yourself talking/asking us to suscribe/like the video. Just my two cents, keep up the good work!
Well Nautilus was one of my first Champions as I started playing league and I always played him support xD so what happend in Patch 5.1(idk if it was 5.1) with Nautilus that he became a more populare support ?
Where'd you get the intro pic?
Nautilus got played as supp pretty frequently in Season 3 already on EUW
how about shen jungle or jarvan mid?
You really need to explain why these are good. Ap yi? Why was annie support seen as unviable and then turned out to be crazy popular? Some change in balance or just that she isn't focused as much as a support.
I've seen naut played as support since like season 2 I wasn't suprised when they picked him in an LCS game....