Robert Fancyman Yes but no escapes, and difficult to play means it's a relative tradeoff. You don't see amazing vaynes, just like you don't see amazing rivens everywhere
Kitfisto01 It is a fair fight. If you can dodge his Q, congrats, you just won the fight because you outplayed him. If you can't dodge the skillshot, then you probably deserve to die.
DeadlyEnemie First off, I didn't understand half the shit you said... Sorry. Second, we're talking about Lee and the fact that HE IS balanced atm. Why is Lux into this question?
Daniel Leão Because "just dodge X" is never a valid argument. Example: let's make a champion with a Q that's a short skillshot that instakills anything it touches, no exceptions. But it's totally balanced, because you just have do dodge it. Even the best player in the world can't dodge everything, and if something is balanced around "just dodge it" it's a faulty design. You're basically saying that even the best player in the world deserves to lose because he can't dodge 100% of all skillshots.
Kitfisto01 You are an idiot. 7 abilities ? and what? 2 of his abilities make off a damage of other champs 1 ability. His double Q doesnt deal dmg mid/late game, only if full ad lee, his W doesnt give him much lifesteal, It sucks, without AD your W does like no heal, It is something to help him in the jungle, His E deals no dmg and only his second E slows, soo yeah, His E is 2 abilities, but they worth 0,2 abilities, cuz a braum passive is more useful then Lee's E, expect if you are againts vayne/akali...
Quincy Simons His Death Sentence by itself is a hook, an engage and a cc, it synergizes with his Flay, that again can be an engage or help you escape when used correctly. Both these skills synergize with his ultimate perfectly. Additionally, his lantern is a great disengage/ engage and, again, may even synergize with his Death sentence and so on. Despite of his versatility, his kit is not overloaded, because he has no heal or other strong defensive abilities like other supports, just a rather weak shield. His e passive gives him some damage when -again- used correctly, that he'd otherwise be lacking. When played expertly, he can be the strongest support in the game, but he's in no way overpowered.
I will have to disagree with you. Thresh is overloaded. I wish I was biased, but I play Thresh too. In fact, I remember the first time I played him (it was a ranked match, derp). I won it with ease, without even properly understanding the champ. Thereafter, I played 7 matches in a row with Thresh and won all of em. I wish I was lying right now, but seriously, it happened lol. Maybe I was lucky, but the fact that Thresh is overloaded cannot be denied. He has no heal because with it, he'd be the most OP champion in the whole game. Thresh is a very flexible champion, and he exerts a lot of pressure just by standing near his enemies. He can easily save someone that is standing behind a wall by simply throwing his lantern , that grands a freaking shield too. Small, but it makes a difference quite often. His hook is difficult to land, but not as difficult as it should be, because of the broken hitbox issue (it affects almost all champions with a skillshot). Besides the fact that he has many 'supportive' options, he can also deal a considerable amount of damage by simply collecting souls, which isnt hard to do. It only costs time, instead of gold, for thresh to become stronger. He wont kill tanks any time soon, but he can still pimp slap adc's or squishy mages for a lot of damage with _only_ supportive items. I love playing Thresh (will probably main him in season 6, along with Leona), but come on son. Saying he isnt overloaded is just like saying grass is blue, or 'chickens can fly'.
Quincy Simons Alright, I'll give it to you up to a certain degree, but still, if a supporting champ is almost completely lacking any defensive spells for himself OR his ADC, I can ignore the fact that he has so much cc. Also, he doesn't have a single stun in his kit and all of his cooldowns are reasonably long. As I said, when played really well, he can be insanely strong, so maybe it's just about you being a good support. Apart from that, an overloaded kit doesn't take away from great skill synergy etc., otherwise Lee Sin would have to be considered OP as well, with his amazing (actually unmatched) mobility, his sustain and defense through his abilities and items, his high damage and hard cc. There's pretty much nothing this champ lacks, but when he's not played by someone who knows what he's doing, you won't get very far with him.
Actually, I kinda hate Lee and I do think that he is _overpowered_ but this time, I am being biased so just ignore this. (I cant play lee at all, and I hate losing vs him) I guess it depends on how you view or define 'well designed'. The way I see it, a well designed champion is fun to play and fun to play against (in other words, not impossible to beat, overloaded, toxic or too obnoxious). I just think that atm, Thresh does not fit the profile of 'well designed'. He has an advantage over many champs with the same role by default because of the nature of his kit. Generally speaking, champions aren't that hard to play at all. Its just like basic calculations. 2536 + 78 is harder to calculate than 43 + 5, but its still manageable because it requires the same technique to figure out. A lot of champions were seemingly made with the same 'molds' and are just rehashed versions of old champions. This cannot be avoided when you have so many different champions in the game. (not saying Thresh is simple, or that making champions is super easy. It still requires creativity, I reckon). Thresh is just hard to play, _compared_ to other champs with the same role, and I am not sure if that is a good excuse for the amount of power and impact he has.
mischa the king No he is not. He's easy to play against. I think Alistar is so much more overpowered. He's a cc god better than thresh, he's invincible and then immortal when he puts on his ult, and he has constant heals.
What?! His ult got a pretty big nerf I believe. Check on the Wiki. They might've increased the ratio and lowered the base but I think they nerfed dmg overall from like 1k to 600 in total. Might be wrong.
And besides a champion not getting nerfed doesn't mean they fit the criteria Curios explained. I'm not saying Vel doesn't, but not getting nerfed by riot isn't a factor of his list. (Case and point: Lee Sin)
Rinky Dinky i guess it was a PBE thing and never made to live servers because I could swear I saw ult nerfs. I guess they never hit just like the Kata E changes on the PBE we saw.
Julian Gerritsen you know nida right ? shes not in this list for a reason, which is: you get hit once -> youre dead -> youre frustrated. Thresh follows the same pattern with the difference that its not himself killing you. Really you dont feels outplayed when being caught by thresh since he only needs one skillshot for it. Also threshs e can deny jumps. which is an unhealthy mechanic since the jumping player cant do anything about it most of the time.
It's really weird to have Nami on the list but not Thresh. Thresh is not only one of the most popular champions in the game, but is regarded to have one of the most versatile, unique kits where every ability can have a significant impact. Thresh is even thematically brilliant: a soul collector, who attracts souls to his lantern. A lantern, that ACTUAL players (team mates) are drawn to, often in desperation. Just brilliant. Also, Death sentence is probably the most accurate ability name in the game.
PunCala yeah but if you get hit by a hook, it's basically gg... i mean, if the list had 6 spots, i would've actually put him in the 6th, he is hard to play, rewarding and kinda well designed by itself, but i think nami deserves it because she's not as strong or as useful(but still, this is my opinion ^^), also her heal's pretty shit.
They are all pretty good champs, but not impossible to play against (exept vayne). Tell me reasons, and dare you to name champs like yasuo or riven -.-
Kritzelkind don't you hate my champs. Riven is kinda balanced, she's easy to outplay if not played correctly. If she was broken, she would've been picked much more, and have a lot higher win ratio. Better riven players know what champ can do. For example if you main swain, you can outplay me, you know possibilities of your champ. Yasuo is balanced, he has unique kit, if not played correctly he can be killed easy. I could say (coz I hate him) Darius is overpowered, he can bully and zone everyone in lane, but I won't, coz I am sure, I can 1.outfarm him later, 2. Roam and snowball, 3. Or just wait for gank.
+DOmetry ähm, no, listen to what he says in the first minute: "A well designed champion should be fun and exciting to play as and has lots of both outplay potential as well as counterplay for the opponents and is fairly balanced inherintely by not having any frustrating mechanics to play against and really just feels fair to play against for the opponents." etc. And then the first champion mentioned pick is Lee Sin. I call that bullshit.
I agree with most, BUT WHY NOT THRESH. He has the BEST designed kit in the game. Each of his abilities can be used defensively and offensively. You have to be good to play him too.
Thresh shoulda been on this list. All of his abilities synergize and feel fun to play, and his lack of gaining armor per level gives him a weakness to early aggression, giving him a fair amount of counterplay. Plus, if you miss the hook, you have no real mobility to escape the counter initiate.
The problem with thresh is that he is incredibly overloaded and can do nearly anything, so if he's strong its kinda like azir. Why would you ever play any other support?
Because their numbers are more powerful and the new items. Now why would you play, say blitzcrank over thresh? Sure the invades but in lane thresh is just a better blitzcrank.
hello amis, vous devraient se dépêcher si vous voulez rattraрer aaaavec cette chance, je me suis juste 3000 RP libre, je sais qu'il n'y a pas beaucoup (bien en fait tout à fait est), mais vous ne pas avoir à pаrtager des liеns pour obtenir des références ou tеl, vous ne devez pas donner une рasse, il est juste quelque chose voir temporairement twitter.com/29bcec287ff2de3b8/status/719122050204508160 Тop 5 Best Designed Champions in League of Legends
Lee Sin and Vayne? Lol. Both are extremely frustrating to play against (and with in Vayne's case). Lee Sin is ranked one of the most nerfed champions ever yet he's still relevant. A testament to how overloaded his damn kit is. His out play potential gives him so many options giving him the advantage to out maneuver you. Vayne in general is a champ I just hate seeing on my team, and I cringe if I have to support her. I mean she literally doesn't freaking do anything. No range, no CC, no Poke, no Siege potential, no AoE, no waveclear. She's just such a selfish pick among ADCs. There are other tank busters that actually provide utility.
Corvo A lol "if" I dislike uncertainty. And yea she has a situational stun. I just hate it when people pick her on a whim. I can understand if you've weighed the options and have an idea of what your team and the enemy team will look like. It's the first pick "hurr hurr durr Im gonna carry dis!" Vaynes with a 51% winrate that drive me up a wall.
The fuck kinda best design list doesn't have Thresh Jeremy? But no, the true damage autos champion made it. And even though Vayne can be high skilled, she could also have two/three tanks stand in front of her and just let her auto to victory. Vayne doesn't have counterplay, she has a window of not overwhelming power that you can extend. She even has lane bullying potential and considering the late game is that, but on steroids? Though Lee can get away with some stupid shit, I can be ok with him on this list. But Ori, to me personally, falls under the same problems Azir does. Sure, getting to be consistently good with them both will take some time to get used to but once you do, they have enormous zoning potential that is super hard for practically any champ to deal with. Her W and R are near instantaneous and in the thick of a teamfight, watching one champion's abilities solely will get you killed...but you have to with Ori. She dominates lane phase, she dominates teamfights, and she just does a bit too much. I'm mostly upset about the lack of Thresh here though...a champion that can be fairly played in nearly any role and has a kit that is as powerful as your imagination and creativity. C'mon man, I like ya, but that was a big thing to miss, cmon!
DarkX64 Orianna isn't as bad as you might think. The w is instantaneous, but is completely reliant on where the ball is, and the ball has to be moved using q, which is fairly slow and very dodgeable. Her ult is no where near instantaneous, it has quite the windup actually, especially when compared to similar ults (annie, malphite), but there is no denying it is one of the best ults in the game. Comparing her to azir however is slightly unfair, yes they are both zone champs, but azir is far more oppressive with his zoning, as he can have multiple soldiers at once that can do damage without having to use abilities (what this means is with orianna she needs to use her abilities to do damage with ball, giving u a good window of opportunity to engage when she's on cooldown. But azir can zone and damage a much larger area simply by having the soldiers out, and can save his other abilities in case he gets engaged upon, making it much harder to fight back, not mentioning the far superior disengage he has even if he does mess up)
Jonathan Black He doesnt have a hook, stun, He has a hook that "stuns" a knockback that can be used as a pull and, also his passive wont stack much in a game and wont be anything ridicolous. He wont get damage from it, He may get like 60-100 ap and that wont really make big differences in his dmg. There are many passives which are stronger. Late game even if he gets 100 armor, even a 300 armored tank is shred like shit by the last whisper adcs, not even thornmail helps if an adc is full build. In early-mid game his passive does too little to worth anything and later in the game It will still worthless so yeah. I dont wanna talk down thresh but he isnt even near to being op.
I always try to guess the champions to say before you present them and had an extremely difficult time coming up with any for this topic, but was pleased to see that once again you selections were on point!
Warrock1221 lmfao you can shit so easily on a vayne early game. Maybe because you're low elo and early game pressure doesn't mean much but at higher elo people know how to close games fast
***** +xTim128 i am diamond on several accounts and u think vayne is shit early game ? thats totally wrong. sure she is not the best but other adcs at the moment wont shit on her. vayne will shit on sivir. even in lane. jinx, kog, ashe, trist lane arent strong aswell.... there are just a few adcs who can shit on her. for example corki and cait. but cait is shit at the moment so this doenst matter. and vayne gets to her powerspike waaaay earlier than other adcs because she is an botrk adc and thats much cheaper than IE and she scales so hard with it. late game she can outduel pretty much anybody without much effort. and even tanks arent a problem for her since she deals so much true damage. she is also pretty safe because of her E, q, invisibility. only some heavy burst mages who can 100-0 her are a real threat for her.
***** oh and there we go.... people start to insult others instead of discuss on this topic. then tell me why sivir wins against vayne in lane ! generally you cant say "vayne wins vs sivir in lane" or "sivir wins vs vayne in lane" because support is a huge factor in this matchup. but lets be serious. vayne has 50 more range than sivir. she can dodge sivirs q with her q pretty easily. sivir cant spellshield q and w which is vaynes main damage source. she can only shield e when timed correctly but thats it. and if sivir misses her q. she loses the trade 100%. and as vayne dodging this q is not hard at all.... also vayne gets stronger faster because she only needs botrk and sivir IE. in lane vayne is definitely stronger than sivir. but sivirs ult is super strong in teamfights and in mid / late game. but there is no way a sivir will shit on a vayne at an equal skill level.
Warrock1221 lol says he is diamond, my ass you Bronze scrub, vayne is VERY easy to play against, especially if you are playing a hard poke champion, you set her behind for ages from her late game. It's just vayne only does damage either when she is fed, or when it's 40 minutes in game, unless in your elo where adc can't farm for shit. Just z Keep vayne underfarmed, and she won't be able to do shit is the point man.
Laura de Kruik I agree as well. Back in season 4 I used to main her, along with Janna, and I'd pretty much pick one of them, depending on my mood, into any matchup.
sorry, but probably one of the worst videos you have put up yet. So many people disagree on vayne solely, and how is nami good designed? instead of nami and vayne I would´ve put ekko and thresh there, not some rigth click-q spamming doublelift wannabe and a little mermaid rip-off...
Thresh for Vayne I agree on but Nami deserves a spot on the list. She is just well made for many playstyles and machups. Also Ekko is overloaded as hell.
James Blooey Ekko is not well designed. Thresh is pretty nice, thats true and he is debateable to be on this list, but Nami definitley has her spot in this list. Ekko is just extremly overloaded and just because he has chances to make big plays or fail terribly if he is outplayed, which is not too difficult, doesn't make a champ well designed. This stuff is expected to exist if this game is more than 5 years old.
***** I kinda see why but there are a lot of cases where you just can not counterplay her at all. You have to pick vs her and if she is last pick on red side and your comp is bad vs her then it's almost GG at that point
Clash n Craft He's probably one of those Silver 5 players which are proud of themselves and have 250k mastery points on vayne just because they spam her and hold a 10/15/5 kda and when ever they see another vayne doing bad they go like "bitch pls I main vayne"
I do agree that most of Vaynes kit is really well made, but that absolulty overpowered W has never even been close to balanced since it is true damage.
+FlubberSquid i always wonder if people even try to make the maths about vayne's W let's say you are playing adc, lvl 18 you'll have around 2k hp that's 240 damage from her W let's take draven, he is an auto attacker too, i did 1k7 damage once with a single AA with Q on as draven let's take varus 160% ad ration on low cd fast travelling super high range skill shot, yeah its a skillshot but it has fuckloads of range and it deals around 890 damage to squishies lets take lucian, his Q deals around 600 to 800 damage late game to squishies and its targetable theses are all adcs and these are all the spells they max first vayne is designed to kill tanks, that's the point of her W, but it makes shitty damages vs squishies. say you don't like that she's made to kill tanks her true damage is balanced because poor damage vs squishies, and ap carries and adcs are most of the time the ones to focus on teamfights so yeah don't complain because you don't ever think about what is actually happenning
damage that is not counterable ontop of her aa damage that is 90% of the time building crit. Her true damage is not balanced. vayne one shots almost everyone. you didnt due math or any of that lucian q can not ddue 800 damage.
Umm wtf, Vayne isn't really an adc but more of an assassin at some point. Plus, she has terrain interaction and you need to make careful use of her ult for her to do something good. Otherwise you're just a bronzie/silver player thinking you're doing something with her. :)
How is Thresh not in this? His kit is so flexible and well designed it makes him a perfect first pick. His hook can be a good disengage or initiate, his w can end a gank or start one, his flay can pull or disengage, and his ult can stop a charge or lock a team down. All this while he can poke you down with autos. How is he not at the very least in here?
With Bard being one of my main champions, I approve of this video. Bard has some of the most interesting mechanics in the game. The only thing is that the trade off is that he has the lowest damage in the game. I think Riot needs to buff the range on his Q badly, because while Bard can be the thing that makes or breaks certain fights, more often than not he's just a healbot because he has no tools for doing anything to the back line and his peel is weak too. Right now, it's just so reliant on his ultimate. Used correctly, it can have the highest utility in the game, but since the ult can cost your team if used incorrectly or if you can't predict movement of your team and the enemy team, then it can lose fights and games just as easily.
Abdul Haleem Habeeb She does just to many things to well. She can poke, has huge burst and high mobility and to top that of she also offers a heal. The only thing she does not have is cc. Also: She is not fun to play against.
***** it is not that you can not beat a riven in lane, but you have to pick from a very limited pool of champions to do so. Also: Rivens come back super easily even if they get destroyed in lane and most of her counters scale really bad in the late game so if the game goes long she beats them anyway.
I think Braum is the best designed, everything in his kit is synergetic and feels thematically satisfying. Being a beefy support, every single punch feels important because of the stun stacking, even if it doesn't deal huge damage right off the bat. The shield blocking, the jump positioning with a defense buff, the slow / stun, everything feels geared towards defense, UNTIL YOU HIT THE ULT BUTTON! His incredible ultimate, when timed and placed perfectly, really makes Braum feel incredibly strong, even if his damage output isn't much compared to other champions.
BurnNotice2015 Lee Sin is a generalist with high mobility, high damage, high sustain, durable stats, and no mana costs.He does it all decent, and he has no weakness. I dislike that as a design.
+Luke Rockhold Super weak early game, cant do anything in team fights except focus the adc. You dont know a lot do you? He is easy to win trades against if you can dodge a simple skillshot
Casey Bass I know a lot about Lee Sin actually. His early game is by no means weak, and he has seen frequent play in LCS games since worlds. The skillshot argument is invalid. That was like saying old Nidalee was healthy, because you could just dodge her simple skillshot and she was useless. Lee Sin has a lot of power in his kit. Early to mid game he dominates, because again, he does it all. With recent buffs to Lee, his kick can now punish enemies that grouped, especially in jungle fights. 21% of HP isn't something to laugh off. Lee Sin is currently in a fine spot, I just dislike his design concept. He has the same number of abilities as a transformation champ, but he also has an ult to go with it.
Luke Rockhold Your points are all correct. I may just be a bit biased because I main him and love him so much. Id marry him if I could. I just think he was very well designed. He has the same number of abilities as a transformation champ but and his ulti. But in reality 3 of those 7 abilities dont contribute to his damage much. He was a very weak slow IMO and his W's lifesteal is also very weak. Honestly i think the abilities Ironwill and Cripple are just excuses so he can utilize his passive more effectively. Im sorry for being rude but I very heavily think he is one of the best designed champions in the game.
"Vayne's stealth is fair because you can see her just before she stealths, allowing you to put down a pink ward." Unless she does it from a bush. "Rengar's stealth is just unfair." So... deploying a vision ward in the heat of a fight against a Vayne during the very limited amount of time she gets to stealth and possibly completely break off is fair... yet Rengar's stealth which is mostly used to escape or to gank, and which is much more predictable and easy to vision is unfair because...?
Princess Lucina but most people dont feel like they have been outplayed by riven, even tho they probably have, they will just mark it of as riven is a faceroll champ that doesnt need skill and is broken, but they dont know that if they play against riven in ranked, there is like a 70% chance that this riven has more than 30 rankeds on her and is really good
I feel like Riot does the best job while designing supports. They don't have to force them in the League of Mobility and can really focus on what they want to do. I mean Thresh, Nami, Bard, Janna, new Soraka, Blitzcrank (debatable), Braum etc. all feel well designed and rarely get nerfed/buffed. If they get buffed it's often because of item changes.
+Templar388z Ikr, making #lcsbigp(l)ays is not an excuse to have such an overloaded and toxic kit. The sad thing is, riot wont nerf lee because his huge fanbase will cry their eyes out whenever his numbers get reduced.
I believe thresh and Jayce should be on here. Thresh has an unparalleled kit making him popular, with a degree of challenge in his kit. Although Jayce has a semi overloaded kit, his lack of tankyness and his timing on when to switch between stances also makes his kit semi difficult to play, quite easily countered, and can put you in a position saying "nice outplay"
I totally agree with Bard and Ori. They're pretty hard to play with, but when you make some good plays with them, you just feel like you defeated some strong boss. But i think Thresh and Wukong should be on this list (Wu might be annoying to play against, but he is so much fun to be played).
NightcoreAnimeLoLAssassinPlayer Biased opinion... well you can say what you want, while counterplay is there... somewhere, having a good Zed play against you can make you feel less as if you got outplayed but more just bursted into the ground without much you can do. I know counterplay is there, but they can still be very frustrating to play against with certain parts in his kit that are just not outplayable. Or feels as if. Yasuo kinda the same, just that there is no way around Autoattacks that crit for half your health.
I love it how when he mentions Vayne's stealth, he says that a player can "see Vayne before she does it" You can see Rengar before it does it, but Jeremy says jack shit about that...
So much Bard hate, he's a really well designed champion but there is just a really tiny amount of good Bard players. I remember that Syndra was considered garbage when she came out until the mid lane mains got a hang of her and realised she was really good.
Saying Vayne has an ABYSMAL laning phase is an extreme exaggeration. Saying Poppy and Karthus have an abysmal laning phase actually makes better sense.
"Dodging his Q" "Getting in a position so his ult doesn't wreck you" (which is really hard mostly possible on backline champions.) And kiting lee isn't an option due to his 2 gapclosers, Q nuke, cripple and slow, and ultimate... Lee doesn't have, as far as I see, much counterplay except hoping he messes up.
Alrighty, I have a question about Vayne. I've seen her played, played with her and against her, and I have no idea where this abysmal laning phase comes from. The only horror comes when she wont stop thumbing into the enemy every trade, but minor thought seems to solve any non-hard counter or camping.
I love your channel! I love every top 10 list you make and I think you should really invest more time and effort into increasing the quality and design of those videos. Every time I go on break I check your channel for a new top 10 or top 5 list lol keep it up
Lee Sin define the jungle meta as long as two entire seasons, and only fall of the throne after an great amount of nerfs. He was incredible broken after the release buffs. And at the same time is one of the most annoying champions in LoL for any hero with limited mobility. Mix all of this with one of the most overloaded kit. I can't understand how it even make it to the top 50 "best designed" champions.
I sure feel outplayed when Lee Sin ward-jumps behind me as a midlaner with no escape, guaranteed slows me then lands a guaranteed Q that wrecks half my HP instantly even when I'm full HP.
I see so much stuff on how thresh should replace Nami. While thresh can make all those big plays and never once have I felt that thresh is unfair, that doesn't make him better designed than nami. She's good for all players be new or pro, she's pretty much useful at all stages of the game yet never feels over powered in any of them, she has as much counterplay as any champion can pretty much get.
I am more interested in good design as thematic cohesion: champions that make sense, have a clear identity and represent an archetype, and feel unique. I agree that Orianna is very good; she was revolutionary when she was released, though Riot's recent efforts at new mechanics tend to obscure that. For supports, Alistar and Janna are very distinct: one is a balls-deep bull and the other an untouchable weather witch, and everything about their kit represents their theme and their gameplay role. Zac is a really great tank concept. His kit revolves around being a blob of goo, it all looks good and isn't boring despite the strict cohesion. Every detail, including his passive (healing bits and growing with health), build on his concept. Rengar and Nocturne are probably the coolest assassin/stalkers (yes, even if Noc isn't typically assassin-built). There is a clear theme to both, and all their abilities (except maybe Noc's shield) build on that. In short, I like champions that aren't just a bag of abilities slapped on an unrelated visual theme, but look, feel and play like the concept they are supposed to embody. Rammus is a great tank and you can tell just by looking at his art and spell visuals. On the other hand, you have Maokai who is, err.... a nasty tree who can teleport to enemies, carry around a force field and heal with autoattacks? Or Shen, a ninja who has a shield (boring), throws a magical dagger (more boring), dashes into enemies to taunt them (because ninjas totally do that) and a teleport to ally? That he's a terrible ninja is a running joke, but really his identity (based on his kit alone) is very unclear besides. I could go on, but you get the idea. It's not that I only play well-designed champions - both Maokai and Shen are some of my old favorites. But when you play something where "is", "does" and "looks like" go hand in hand, and you become the archetype, it adds a new level to the game.
I don't understand how Vayne can be one of the most hated champions and be a good design (won't even mention the ludicrous W or the obscene mobility) Lee has been top tier in the jungle for years and was only unviable during the tank meta, being one of the few survivors when the jungle creeps made nearly any jungler unviable in early season 5. Plus, he is one of the few champions who is always safe from nerfs due to "community backlash" (ahem, Veigar and Cassiopeia) as well as getting buffs just because Worlds is just around the corner. Other than that, I agree.
I'm pretty suprised to see Thresh did not make into the list, he's skill sets have really clear pros and cons, unlike blitz, and he requires fair amount of depth, but not to the point where is really hardcore like Yasuo or Riven. But I really agree with your list great work!
I think Karma is one of the best designed champion because the mechanics relies on her R (mantra) and also relies on her passive...+ the kites are very interesting and she's flexible in context that you could basically lane her any lane (except for adc) she could also support the team while playing her as other roles (advantage of her shield)
I agree with almost all points, however, I am fairly bad at the game and even I can play Vayne in certain situations. I think she is pretty okay in the early/midgame to play against but as soon as she reaches the late game she is utterly and completely broken. However, I like that you picked Orianna as #1, she is a super awesome champion with high skill mechanics but incredible potential if you get off a good ultimate. Nice vid, Jeremy!
Kinda surprised Ezreal isn't on here. Super fun to play, and literally everything he does is a skill-based move. 3 skill shots, one of which can be blocked by anything, one of which takes forever to start up, and a flash. There really is nothing more to him than being able to outplay your opponent. He's also not that annoying to play against, with his massive skillshot dependency as well as a complete and total lack of CC.
Nautilus is my choice of the best design. Clearly a tank that is slow and low in the damage department, he is a CC behemoth who can control a team fight. He has multiple ways of initiating and his CC is versatile enough to be used as peel in other situations. His bulkiness and how his whole kit fits together with not only one another, but also his character theme makes him a model for champion design.
"Well designed means not overpowered. Anyway, here's Vayne, a carry with percent-of-health true damage, automatic chase power, and spammable invis who's been top tier since she was invented."
Also Nami does counter Draven, drop on a bubble where you see his axe and he cant pick it up without being anally violated by Nami's ADC as punishment for walking into a bubble
I disagree with Bard simply because he can troll his teammates with ulti and his kit also encourages him to roam and leave his laner so it's not very well designed imo. I agree with the rest, a lot of the champions with higher mechanics (lee, vayne) will seem poorly designed in lower elo as players who don't understand their kits are very easy to outplay. You can see the difference in opinions the higher the elo goes, when I play higher elo the complaints are usually about things with little to no outplay potential the lower the elo goes its the ones with outplay potential that people complain about. Higher skilled players know how to play around outplay potential, for example, an annie can flash tibbers stun you. there is next to no outplay from a fed annie where as when theres a fed lee you can avoid q's predict his w's and make sure not to line up for his r's. Lee takes a lot of skill, in the hands of a skilled player he can obviously seem op to someone with no skill, another reason people bitch about stuff like lee and yasuo and other high skilled champs is because they simply are too bad at the game to play those champs and would rather bitch about them being op than learn the champ and how to counter it. learning to play against a high skilled champ is almost as hard as learning to play them.
I really liked this list, for what it's worth. I also realized that two of my most played champs are on it, so I'm a bit biased, but I think you made good arguments for vayne and lee sin. And Orianna has always been one of the best all around champions while not being overpowered. Nice video.
I'd put Nocturne on the list. He is described to be a nightmare, and his kit really lets you be one. If fed as an AD assassin, his burst is very respectable Q lets him chase w/ more Movespeed and no unit collision E fears his target R scares everyone on the enemy team Aside from Devourer he's very balanced since he has very low mana pool and is rather useless if behind
Ah. We are in agreement for best designed champ! Ori has so many play styles and routes, but none is particularly overpowered compared to the others. One thing I would have loved to see touched on is her passive, which I find is sort of the snake in the grass for her opponents. They become so focused on avoiding the Ball that they forget her auto. Unlike most AP carries, her passive packs a huge hidden punch. Clockwork windup gives Raka's banana a run for its money in sniping. (Of course, I was building Nashors on her before it was meta acceptable, so I might just be biased.) Truly, she is a fun champ to play as, even when losing, and a fun one to play against even when she's balling you hard. The fact she challenges both the player AND the opponent to think critically is hella grand design!
What do you think about Shaco and Singed ? they have a really synergical and versatile kit, with some high outplay interactive potential I think, which is not based much on skill than on mind game, which is the deepest aspect of the game. And they clearly have their weaknesses too. But I guess you'll maybe say they feel toxic and unfair to play against when behind them, and as for Mundo and the other bruisers who at my sense have well made kits. And last I wanted to talk about Zed, which Riot seems to feels proud of, in comparison to Lee, because he also is hard to play and versatile, his skillshots can be dodged, his movements predicted, and his ultimate countered by many ways.
Surprised Varus isn't on here. He is all skill except for his W, which is a passive. You have to aim your Q very precisely, his Ultimate can be missed if you can't aim correctly, and his E isn't exactly skill shot but you have to make sure you aim correctly or it's a waist
His fast moving and long range arrows are hard to dodge (difficult to counter play) and lack of mobility sometimes makes him frustrating to play with or against.
Daniel Leão Honestly I don't feel he is that great of a champion design wise. I mean he is unique and good and you can like him all you want, but it does not feel as if you can do much against him as soon as he gets rolling a tiny bit. You can of course disagree and Ekko is fun and all that stuff, just there are a few things that would put him lower on this list than spot number 5
I honestly think that ahri is a pretty rounded kit as well with her charm and her ult can determine if she will survive the teamfights and kill shit or she will be the first one to die when she is running into a teamfight with out her ult and her w and q can be also be used to check bushes with her q (just listen to the animation noise) and her w can also be used to help heal her up incase she is facing someone 1v1 to heal her up a bit but her kit overall can still be outplayed if you know what your doing against an ahri
I like this list! Anyway i play mostly support (Bard, Blitzcrank, Thresh, Nami, Braum, Morgana, Annie and sometimes Vel'Koz) and mostly because I think thats most supports is well designed and therefore less objective to nerfs and buffs. And i like to get that sick KDA you can get on assists!
Everyone says how Vayne has an awful laning phase, which while true, bare in mind that there are gonna be those games where she gets first blood and is 3/0 by 10 mins
In my opinion, the best designed champs in league are: 1) Thresh (all around most versatile support ever. Synergizes with every ADC. Can engage or disengage. Takes a considerable amount of practice to get good with him but if you're a good thresh you'll make every ADC want your babies) 2) Zed (best ninja and assassin in the game IMO. I love the idea of the shadows he puts. Before the Nerf it created a ton of outplay potential and he's very high risk, high reward. He wasn't op or freelo. A good zed can snowball very hard. He was a totally healthy assassin and it just doesn't make sense to Nerf him.) 3) Lee Sin (I put him pretty high and I agree with him being a very well put together kit) 4) ahri (I think in the tank meta ahri is such a dominant ap mid/assassin. And her abilities give a ton of outplay potential and can also be outplayed. I don't believe that ahri has any straight counters. I think it's all skill based match ups. Such as lb, zed, yasuo, etc.) 5) Vayne (I agree that vayne has a very mediocre laning phase. However if you can make it to the late game with your core damage items, you'll be able to do many plays. She isn't op either. People think she's op cause she is anti-tank. But, she is susceptible to being focused heavily. And she is squishy. One wrong move and she's dead. She's the epitome of a high risk champion that takes a lot of mechanical skill.)
Alright i can agree with you on all but one of these. Vayne doesn't have an abysmal early. Because of how strong her stun is early on any support that forces you into a bad spot or heck just being remotely near a wall is fatal because of how large the knock back range is. you could be close ot the middle of a lane and she'd get the stun off followed by a free kill.
I tend to ban Lee Sin, not because he's OP but because I don't want to deal with him in a game. He has too much in his kit and the change to his ultimate is crazy. Vayne is the worst ADC, she's a faceroll right click to win champ. The only "complex" mechanic is landing the stun with her push ability. Nobody plays Bard
my personal list of well design champions, based on every spell having a real signification to use inside the kit (ignoring power level) : Brand, Vel'koz, Diana, Cassiopeia, Jhin, Karthus, Nocturne, Shaco, Singed, Shen (reworked), Trundle
I completely disagree on Vayne. When you have a champion who can just auto-attack to burst a full-armour tank it gets really fucking frustrating.
Robert Fancyman vayne do more in 3 auto-attacks than a lot of champs do in a whole combo that's why i disagree too
mrhades113 Cause bursting a tank with three auto's is a good idea right guys... guys?
Robert Fancyman Yes but no escapes, and difficult to play means it's a relative tradeoff. You don't see amazing vaynes, just like you don't see amazing rivens everywhere
189x dificult to play?
mrhades113 Yes want to give a reason why besides asking a stupid question?
When I see plays, I go online and start a game. Then I suck and feed, cry in a corner and eat chocolate.
Markus Andersen oh man I was just in the middle of logging in when I read this :/
Gergely H
xD haha
It's okay
And then I remember I buy no chocolate
Galileo Venica that's too bad, hehe xD
Markus Andersen ur name sounds pretty danish, how arent u in lcs yet ? :O
Yes whenever lee sin kills me I certainly feel it was a fair fight and he totally doesnt have 7 abilites and insane amounts of damage and lifesteal
Kitfisto01 It is a fair fight. If you can dodge his Q, congrats, you just won the fight because you outplayed him. If you can't dodge the skillshot, then you probably deserve to die.
DeadlyEnemie First off, I didn't understand half the shit you said... Sorry.
Second, we're talking about Lee and the fact that HE IS balanced atm. Why is Lux into this question?
Daniel Leão Because "just dodge X" is never a valid argument. Example: let's make a champion with a Q that's a short skillshot that instakills anything it touches, no exceptions. But it's totally balanced, because you just have do dodge it.
Even the best player in the world can't dodge everything, and if something is balanced around "just dodge it" it's a faulty design. You're basically saying that even the best player in the world deserves to lose because he can't dodge 100% of all skillshots.
Kitfisto01 I feel the same way, but with no sarcasm.
Kitfisto01 You are an idiot. 7 abilities ? and what? 2 of his abilities make off a damage of other champs 1 ability. His double Q doesnt deal dmg mid/late game, only if full ad lee, his W doesnt give him much lifesteal, It sucks, without AD your W does like no heal, It is something to help him in the jungle, His E deals no dmg and only his second E slows, soo yeah, His E is 2 abilities, but they worth 0,2 abilities, cuz a braum passive is more useful then Lee's E, expect if you are againts vayne/akali...
Nami's kit FLOWS
FLOWS CARL
FLOWS
YouSwellow aye, noticed too :D
YouSwellow coral*
YouSwellow I was about to say that too :(
YouSwellow You could say her kit is really SWELL
YouSwellow Nami's kit is pretty FRESH, don't you agree? ( ͝° ͜ʖ͡°)
How the hell is Thresh not on this list? Do i even need to explain myself here?
+Walter Kowalski yes, you do. Why do you think he is well designed?
Quincy Simons His Death Sentence by itself is a hook, an engage and a cc, it synergizes with his Flay, that again can be an engage or help you escape when used correctly. Both these skills synergize with his ultimate perfectly. Additionally, his lantern is a great disengage/ engage and, again, may even synergize with his Death sentence and so on. Despite of his versatility, his kit is not overloaded, because he has no heal or other strong defensive abilities like other supports, just a rather weak shield. His e passive gives him some damage when -again- used correctly, that he'd otherwise be lacking. When played expertly, he can be the strongest support in the game, but he's in no way overpowered.
I will have to disagree with you. Thresh is overloaded. I wish I was biased, but I play Thresh too. In fact, I remember the first time I played him (it was a ranked match, derp). I won it with ease, without even properly understanding the champ. Thereafter, I played 7 matches in a row with Thresh and won all of em. I wish I was lying right now, but seriously, it happened lol.
Maybe I was lucky, but the fact that Thresh is overloaded cannot be denied. He has no heal because with it, he'd be the most OP champion in the whole game.
Thresh is a very flexible champion, and he exerts a lot of pressure just by standing near his enemies. He can easily save someone that is standing behind a wall by simply throwing his lantern , that grands a freaking shield too. Small, but it makes a difference quite often.
His hook is difficult to land, but not as difficult as it should be, because of the broken hitbox issue (it affects almost all champions with a skillshot).
Besides the fact that he has many 'supportive' options, he can also deal a considerable amount of damage by simply collecting souls, which isnt hard to do. It only costs time, instead of gold, for thresh to become stronger. He wont kill tanks any time soon, but he can still pimp slap adc's or squishy mages for a lot of damage with _only_ supportive items.
I love playing Thresh (will probably main him in season 6, along with Leona), but come on son. Saying he isnt overloaded is just like saying grass is blue, or 'chickens can fly'.
Quincy Simons Alright, I'll give it to you up to a certain degree, but still, if a supporting champ is almost completely lacking any defensive spells for himself OR his ADC, I can ignore the fact that he has so much cc. Also, he doesn't have a single stun in his kit and all of his cooldowns are reasonably long. As I said, when played really well, he can be insanely strong, so maybe it's just about you being a good support. Apart from that, an overloaded kit doesn't take away from great skill synergy etc., otherwise Lee Sin would have to be considered OP as well, with his amazing (actually unmatched) mobility, his sustain and defense through his abilities and items, his high damage and hard cc. There's pretty much nothing this champ lacks, but when he's not played by someone who knows what he's doing, you won't get very far with him.
Actually, I kinda hate Lee and I do think that he is _overpowered_ but this time, I am being biased so just ignore this. (I cant play lee at all, and I hate losing vs him)
I guess it depends on how you view or define 'well designed'. The way I see it, a well designed champion is fun to play and fun to play against (in other words, not impossible to beat, overloaded, toxic or too obnoxious).
I just think that atm, Thresh does not fit the profile of 'well designed'. He has an advantage over many champs with the same role by default because of the nature of his kit.
Generally speaking, champions aren't that hard to play at all. Its just like basic calculations. 2536 + 78 is harder to calculate than 43 + 5, but its still manageable because it requires the same technique to figure out. A lot of champions were seemingly made with the same 'molds' and are just rehashed versions of old champions. This cannot be avoided when you have so many different champions in the game.
(not saying Thresh is simple, or that making champions is super easy. It still requires creativity, I reckon).
Thresh is just hard to play, _compared_ to other champs with the same role, and I am not sure if that is a good excuse for the amount of power and impact he has.
what about thresh
bub1eboy thresh is the most broken support in the game...... he is not fair to play against at all
You can block the lantern. Done it millions of times
***** his flay is more broken man that shit can stop flashes.
mischa the king No he is not. He's easy to play against. I think Alistar is so much more overpowered. He's a cc god better than thresh, he's invincible and then immortal when he puts on his ult, and he has constant heals.
***** no you didn't understand his skill is the only skill in the game which can throw you back if you flash towards it.
No velkoz? He didnt get buffed or nerfed a single time
What?! His ult got a pretty big nerf I believe. Check on the Wiki. They might've increased the ratio and lowered the base but I think they nerfed dmg overall from like 1k to 600 in total. Might be wrong.
And besides a champion not getting nerfed doesn't mean they fit the criteria Curios explained. I'm not saying Vel doesn't, but not getting nerfed by riot isn't a factor of his list. (Case and point: Lee Sin)
Sltty Cntfck Vel'Koz has NEVER recieved a numbers change
Rinky Dinky i guess it was a PBE thing and never made to live servers because I could swear I saw ult nerfs. I guess they never hit just like the Kata E changes on the PBE we saw.
Lord Körnersemmel Pretty sure his 2 charge move (w i think) got a slight buff?
Hold on, Vayne is high risk, medium reward? You call the potential to 1v5 medium reward?
my thoughts exactly
Yeah the potential to 5v1 if you are actually good
She's high risk, extremely high reward if you ask me. :)
I would remove Nami from the list and get Thresh in her place.
Julian Gerritsen ikr
Julian Gerritsen In terms of design, Nami is worlds beyond.
Julian Gerritsen you know nida right ? shes not in this list for a reason, which is: you get hit once -> youre dead -> youre frustrated. Thresh follows the same pattern with the difference that its not himself killing you. Really you dont feels outplayed when being caught by thresh since he only needs one skillshot for it. Also threshs e can deny jumps. which is an unhealthy mechanic since the jumping player cant do anything about it most of the time.
MrMcDixi Yes but thresh is designed very good imo
Julian Gerritsen i really like his quotes. even now that im not playing him anymore they are spooking through my head.
"vayne is high risk medium reward"
I can't believe you managed to say that without laughing.
It's really weird to have Nami on the list but not Thresh. Thresh is not only one of the most popular champions in the game, but is regarded to have one of the most versatile, unique kits where every ability can have a significant impact. Thresh is even thematically brilliant: a soul collector, who attracts souls to his lantern. A lantern, that ACTUAL players (team mates) are drawn to, often in desperation. Just brilliant. Also, Death sentence is probably the most accurate ability name in the game.
PunCala yeah but if you get hit by a hook, it's basically gg... i mean, if the list had 6 spots, i would've actually put him in the 6th, he is hard to play, rewarding and kinda well designed by itself, but i think nami deserves it because she's not as strong or as useful(but still, this is my opinion ^^), also her heal's pretty shit.
tbh i disagree with most of them
They are all pretty good champs, but not impossible to play against (exept vayne).
Tell me reasons, and dare you to name champs like yasuo or riven -.-
Kritzelkind quin and teemo counter vayne :P but I rarely see them being played.
Alexander Savekin i know, but you have to think about the supporter, quinn cant do shit when beeing snared etc.
Kritzelkind don't you hate my champs. Riven is kinda balanced, she's easy to outplay if not played correctly. If she was broken, she would've been picked much more, and have a lot higher win ratio. Better riven players know what champ can do. For example if you main swain, you can outplay me, you know possibilities of your champ. Yasuo is balanced, he has unique kit, if not played correctly he can be killed easy.
I could say (coz I hate him) Darius is overpowered, he can bully and zone everyone in lane, but I won't, coz I am sure, I can 1.outfarm him later, 2. Roam and snowball, 3. Or just wait for gank.
Any assassin counters vayne
this list is best designed champs people, not most balanced
If you want well designed champs,you pick Brand,not fucking Vayne.
i never said i agreed with the list
mrDjuroman Brand has a shit design..
Its so Season 1/2
+DOmetry ähm, no, listen to what he says in the first minute:
"A well designed champion should be fun and exciting to play as and has lots of both outplay potential as well as counterplay for the opponents and is fairly balanced inherintely by not having any frustrating mechanics to play against and really just feels fair to play against for the opponents." etc.
And then the first champion mentioned pick is Lee Sin.
I call that bullshit.
I agree with most, BUT WHY NOT THRESH. He has the BEST designed kit in the game. Each of his abilities can be used defensively and offensively. You have to be good to play him too.
237kitty Ya and he can be outplayed thanks to the fact that his cooldowns and unforgiving
+237kitty agreed
Thresh shoulda been on this list. All of his abilities synergize and feel fun to play, and his lack of gaining armor per level gives him a weakness to early aggression, giving him a fair amount of counterplay. Plus, if you miss the hook, you have no real mobility to escape the counter initiate.
The problem with thresh is that he is incredibly overloaded and can do nearly anything, so if he's strong its kinda like azir. Why would you ever play any other support?
Doozku DX Because Leona or Braum is in the game. Now that I type that, I'm pretty sure Janna and Soraka are better than he is in this meta.
Because their numbers are more powerful and the new items. Now why would you play, say blitzcrank over thresh? Sure the invades but in lane thresh is just a better blitzcrank.
Doozku DX Cuz Blitz's grab is faster than it is possible for the casual player to dodge, and he has a knockup to follow up.
hello amis, vous devraient se dépêcher si vous voulez rattraрer aaaavec cette chance, je me suis juste 3000 RP libre, je sais qu'il n'y a pas beaucoup (bien en fait tout à fait est), mais vous ne pas avoir à pаrtager des liеns pour obtenir des références ou tеl, vous ne devez pas donner une рasse, il est juste quelque chose voir temporairement twitter.com/29bcec287ff2de3b8/status/719122050204508160 Тop 5 Best Designed Champions in League of Legends
I'm very happy to see Nami on this list , i always thought she was so well designed and usually overlooked.
I see what you did there with Nami. 'It all flows together'
Lee Sin and Vayne? Lol.
Both are extremely frustrating to play against (and with in Vayne's case). Lee Sin is ranked one of the most nerfed champions ever yet he's still relevant. A testament to how overloaded his damn kit is. His out play potential gives him so many options giving him the advantage to out maneuver you.
Vayne in general is a champ I just hate seeing on my team, and I cringe if I have to support her. I mean she literally doesn't freaking do anything. No range, no CC, no Poke, no Siege potential, no AoE, no waveclear.
She's just such a selfish pick among ADCs. There are other tank busters that actually provide utility.
fizman22 If she's fed and is able to kite, you know it's gg right?
fizman22 Vayne has a stun? No cc?
Corvo A lol "if" I dislike uncertainty.
And yea she has a situational stun. I just hate it when people pick her on a whim. I can understand if you've weighed the options and have an idea of what your team and the enemy team will look like.
It's the first pick "hurr hurr durr Im gonna carry dis!" Vaynes with a 51% winrate that drive me up a wall.
fizman22 The feel when a Vayne 1hits you on fullbuild with Udyr....
***** thats only possible if vayne hs fullbuild and udyr is like lvl 12 (championlvl not summonerlvl) aand builds full glass cannon
The fuck kinda best design list doesn't have Thresh Jeremy?
But no, the true damage autos champion made it. And even though Vayne can be high skilled, she could also have two/three tanks stand in front of her and just let her auto to victory. Vayne doesn't have counterplay, she has a window of not overwhelming power that you can extend. She even has lane bullying potential and considering the late game is that, but on steroids?
Though Lee can get away with some stupid shit, I can be ok with him on this list. But Ori, to me personally, falls under the same problems Azir does. Sure, getting to be consistently good with them both will take some time to get used to but once you do, they have enormous zoning potential that is super hard for practically any champ to deal with. Her W and R are near instantaneous and in the thick of a teamfight, watching one champion's abilities solely will get you killed...but you have to with Ori. She dominates lane phase, she dominates teamfights, and she just does a bit too much.
I'm mostly upset about the lack of Thresh here though...a champion that can be fairly played in nearly any role and has a kit that is as powerful as your imagination and creativity. C'mon man, I like ya, but that was a big thing to miss, cmon!
I hope you realized you wasted all your time typing that cuz no one cares
Lmao kevin
DarkX64 Orianna isn't as bad as you might think. The w is instantaneous, but is completely reliant on where the ball is, and the ball has to be moved using q, which is fairly slow and very dodgeable. Her ult is no where near instantaneous, it has quite the windup actually, especially when compared to similar ults (annie, malphite), but there is no denying it is one of the best ults in the game. Comparing her to azir however is slightly unfair, yes they are both zone champs, but azir is far more oppressive with his zoning, as he can have multiple soldiers at once that can do damage without having to use abilities (what this means is with orianna she needs to use her abilities to do damage with ball, giving u a good window of opportunity to engage when she's on cooldown. But azir can zone and damage a much larger area simply by having the soldiers out, and can save his other abilities in case he gets engaged upon, making it much harder to fight back, not mentioning the far superior disengage he has even if he does mess up)
Jonathan Black You are an idiot.
Jonathan Black He doesnt have a hook, stun, He has a hook that "stuns" a knockback that can be used as a pull and, also his passive wont stack much in a game and wont be anything ridicolous. He wont get damage from it, He may get like 60-100 ap and that wont really make big differences in his dmg. There are many passives which are stronger. Late game even if he gets 100 armor, even a 300 armored tank is shred like shit by the last whisper adcs, not even thornmail helps if an adc is full build. In early-mid game his passive does too little to worth anything and later in the game It will still worthless so yeah. I dont wanna talk down thresh but he isnt even near to being op.
that nami vi 1v1 LMAO
wthy you put vayne on this list *_*
I always try to guess the champions to say before you present them and had an extremely difficult time coming up with any for this topic, but was pleased to see that once again you selections were on point!
Jesus christ that Vi missing 3 Q's. I almost cringed at that play.
Let's play a game, I call it "drink every time Jeremy says Super"
sorry but vayne has no counterplay, she has no skillshots and you can't escape her
You can beat vayne in the laning phase, hers is quite weak tbh.
Lunar goddes Diana and bloodmoon Akali are the most beautiful skins imo.
vayne is totally wrong there....srlsy... sometimes i ask myself why u even do such lists...they always seem so wrong...its insane.
Warrock1221 lmfao you can shit so easily on a vayne early game. Maybe because you're low elo and early game pressure doesn't mean much but at higher elo people know how to close games fast
***** +xTim128
i am diamond on several accounts and u think vayne is shit early game ? thats totally wrong. sure she is not the best but other adcs at the moment wont shit on her. vayne will shit on sivir. even in lane. jinx, kog, ashe, trist lane arent strong aswell.... there are just a few adcs who can shit on her. for example corki and cait. but cait is shit at the moment so this doenst matter.
and vayne gets to her powerspike waaaay earlier than other adcs because she is an botrk adc and thats much cheaper than IE and she scales so hard with it.
late game she can outduel pretty much anybody without much effort.
and even tanks arent a problem for her since she deals so much true damage.
she is also pretty safe because of her E, q, invisibility.
only some heavy burst mages who can 100-0 her are a real threat for her.
Warrock1221 Stop lying you idiot, if you think vayne wins lane against sivir you're bronze
*****
oh and there we go.... people start to insult others instead of discuss on this topic.
then tell me why sivir wins against vayne in lane !
generally you cant say "vayne wins vs sivir in lane" or "sivir wins vs vayne in lane" because support is a huge factor in this matchup. but lets be serious.
vayne has 50 more range than sivir. she can dodge sivirs q with her q pretty easily. sivir cant spellshield q and w which is vaynes main damage source. she can only shield e when timed correctly but thats it. and if sivir misses her q. she loses the trade 100%. and as vayne dodging this q is not hard at all....
also vayne gets stronger faster because she only needs botrk and sivir IE.
in lane vayne is definitely stronger than sivir. but sivirs ult is super strong in teamfights and in mid / late game.
but there is no way a sivir will shit on a vayne at an equal skill level.
Warrock1221 lol says he is diamond, my ass you Bronze scrub, vayne is VERY easy to play against, especially if you are playing a hard poke champion, you set her behind for ages from her late game. It's just vayne only does damage either when she is fed, or when it's 40 minutes in game, unless in your elo where adc can't farm for shit. Just z
Keep vayne underfarmed, and she won't be able to do shit is the point man.
I completely agree with the Nami. No matter what other champion I play I always end up playing one more game with Nami.
Laura de Kruik I agree as well. Back in season 4 I used to main her, along with Janna, and I'd pretty much pick one of them, depending on my mood, into any matchup.
sorry, but probably one of the worst videos you have put up yet. So many people disagree on vayne solely, and how is nami good designed? instead of nami and vayne I would´ve put ekko and thresh there, not some rigth click-q spamming doublelift wannabe and a little mermaid rip-off...
If you didn't enjoy the video you don't have to put a mean comment, go watch something else.
Thresh for Vayne I agree on but Nami deserves a spot on the list. She is just well made for many playstyles and machups. Also Ekko is overloaded as hell.
Kevin Huang if u don't like a video why shouldnt u write why u didn't like it??
James Blooey Ekko is not well designed. Thresh is pretty nice, thats true and he is debateable to be on this list, but Nami definitley has her spot in this list. Ekko is just extremly overloaded and just because he has chances to make big plays or fail terribly if he is outplayed, which is not too difficult, doesn't make a champ well designed. This stuff is expected to exist if this game is more than 5 years old.
***** I kinda see why but there are a lot of cases where you just can not counterplay her at all. You have to pick vs her and if she is last pick on red side and your comp is bad vs her then it's almost GG at that point
Part 2 please! Loved this video and the concept all together.
Vayne doesn't need any skill at all..
Withror Pendragon you bronze?
Clash n Craft He's probably one of those Silver 5 players which are proud of themselves and have 250k mastery points on vayne just because they spam her and hold a 10/15/5 kda and when ever they see another vayne doing bad they go like "bitch pls I main vayne"
Alpacasaurus Rex
10/15/5 is not a KDA :P
+Withror Pendragon Stupid shit, im s5 and I have level 5 with vayne and Im not really good with her so.. shes hard
I do agree that most of Vaynes kit is really well made, but that absolulty overpowered W has never even been close to balanced since it is true damage.
+FlubberSquid i always wonder if people even try to make the maths about vayne's W
let's say you are playing adc, lvl 18
you'll have around 2k hp
that's 240 damage from her W
let's take draven, he is an auto attacker too, i did 1k7 damage once with a single AA with Q on as draven
let's take varus
160% ad ration on low cd fast travelling super high range skill shot, yeah its a skillshot but it has fuckloads of range and it deals around 890 damage to squishies
lets take lucian, his Q deals around 600 to 800 damage late game to squishies and its targetable
theses are all adcs and these are all the spells they max first
vayne is designed to kill tanks, that's the point of her W, but it makes shitty damages vs squishies.
say you don't like that she's made to kill tanks
her true damage is balanced because poor damage vs squishies, and ap carries and adcs are most of the time the ones to focus on teamfights so yeah don't complain because you don't ever think about what is actually happenning
damage that is not counterable ontop of her aa damage that is 90% of the time building crit. Her true damage is not balanced. vayne one shots almost everyone. you didnt due math or any of that lucian q can not ddue 800 damage.
true damage will never be balanced ever
i dont think a single adc(rightclick champion) should be on this list
Umm wtf, Vayne isn't really an adc but more of an assassin at some point. Plus, she has terrain interaction and you need to make careful use of her ult for her to do something good. Otherwise you're just a bronzie/silver player thinking you're doing something with her. :)
How is Thresh not in this? His kit is so flexible and well designed it makes him a perfect first pick. His hook can be a good disengage or initiate, his w can end a gank or start one, his flay can pull or disengage, and his ult can stop a charge or lock a team down. All this while he can poke you down with autos. How is he not at the very least in here?
1. Teemo
2. Teemo
3. Teemo
4. Teemo
5. Teemo
With Bard being one of my main champions, I approve of this video. Bard has some of the most interesting mechanics in the game. The only thing is that the trade off is that he has the lowest damage in the game. I think Riot needs to buff the range on his Q badly, because while Bard can be the thing that makes or breaks certain fights, more often than not he's just a healbot because he has no tools for doing anything to the back line and his peel is weak too.
Right now, it's just so reliant on his ultimate. Used correctly, it can have the highest utility in the game, but since the ult can cost your team if used incorrectly or if you can't predict movement of your team and the enemy team, then it can lose fights and games just as easily.
Thank god you did not put nidalee or riven in there or else I think I would have lost my temper.
How is nidalee not well designed
Abdul Haleem Habeeb
She does just to many things to well. She can poke, has huge burst and high mobility and to top that of she also offers a heal. The only thing she does not have is cc. Also: She is not fun to play against.
Abdul Haleem Habeeb wooooooooow
*****
it is not that you can not beat a riven in lane, but you have to pick from a very limited pool of champions to do so. Also: Rivens come back super easily even if they get destroyed in lane and most of her counters scale really bad in the late game so if the game goes long she beats them anyway.
***** fnatic huni played riven in the lcs and they are 18-0 lmao
It amazes me that no one suggested Udyr.
Imo he should be on this list, his design with the 4 stances is just something in its own league.
and at number two it's zed oh shit it's bard
I think Braum is the best designed, everything in his kit is synergetic and feels thematically satisfying. Being a beefy support, every single punch feels important because of the stun stacking, even if it doesn't deal huge damage right off the bat. The shield blocking, the jump positioning with a defense buff, the slow / stun, everything feels geared towards defense, UNTIL YOU HIT THE ULT BUTTON! His incredible ultimate, when timed and placed perfectly, really makes Braum feel incredibly strong, even if his damage output isn't much compared to other champions.
I disagree heavily with Lee Sin.
why?
BurnNotice2015 Lee Sin is a generalist with high mobility, high damage, high sustain, durable stats, and no mana costs.He does it all decent, and he has no weakness. I dislike that as a design.
+Luke Rockhold Super weak early game, cant do anything in team fights except focus the adc. You dont know a lot do you? He is easy to win trades against if you can dodge a simple skillshot
Casey Bass I know a lot about Lee Sin actually. His early game is by no means weak, and he has seen frequent play in LCS games since worlds. The skillshot argument is invalid. That was like saying old Nidalee was healthy, because you could just dodge her simple skillshot and she was useless.
Lee Sin has a lot of power in his kit. Early to mid game he dominates, because again, he does it all. With recent buffs to Lee, his kick can now punish enemies that grouped, especially in jungle fights. 21% of HP isn't something to laugh off. Lee Sin is currently in a fine spot, I just dislike his design concept. He has the same number of abilities as a transformation champ, but he also has an ult to go with it.
Luke Rockhold Your points are all correct. I may just be a bit biased because I main him and love him so much. Id marry him if I could. I just think he was very well designed. He has the same number of abilities as a transformation champ but and his ulti. But in reality 3 of those 7 abilities dont contribute to his damage much. He was a very weak slow IMO and his W's lifesteal is also very weak. Honestly i think the abilities Ironwill and Cripple are just excuses so he can utilize his passive more effectively. Im sorry for being rude but I very heavily think he is one of the best designed champions in the game.
"Vayne's stealth is fair because you can see her just before she stealths, allowing you to put down a pink ward." Unless she does it from a bush.
"Rengar's stealth is just unfair." So... deploying a vision ward in the heat of a fight against a Vayne during the very limited amount of time she gets to stealth and possibly completely break off is fair... yet Rengar's stealth which is mostly used to escape or to gank, and which is much more predictable and easy to vision is unfair because...?
People are just mad cause Rengar kills them :)
Suprised Zed isn'ton this, oh well. A good Riven too, though that AD Scaling shield needs to be toned down a bit. xD
People say this about riven and there is ekko and tahm kench both with shields that are double the size of riven
I have always had problems with zed. He has 2 blinks, constant poke and an all in engage with an execute
Zed's pokee is easy to Dodge and you can trick him with his own blinks
Princess Lucina but most people dont feel like they have been outplayed by riven, even tho they probably have, they will just mark it of as riven is a faceroll champ that doesnt need skill and is broken, but they dont know that if they play against riven in ranked, there is like a 70% chance that this riven has more than 30 rankeds on her and is really good
Joe Joe but is easily countered with cc so makes it risky and also late game is bad
I feel like Riot does the best job while designing supports. They don't have to force them in the League of Mobility and can really focus on what they want to do. I mean Thresh, Nami, Bard, Janna, new Soraka, Blitzcrank (debatable), Braum etc. all feel well designed and rarely get nerfed/buffed. If they get buffed it's often because of item changes.
Lee Sin? really?
+Templar388z Ikr, making #lcsbigp(l)ays is not an excuse to have such an overloaded and toxic kit. The sad thing is, riot wont nerf lee because his huge fanbase will cry their eyes out whenever his numbers get reduced.
Leesin to your heart...
+Lee Sin #BestJokes
same reaction.
The most fun champion? Maybe for the person playing him...
4head, what ur on about lee sin is balanced as fuck lol
"Vayne's mechanic's are quite difficult"
... that's the moment I threw your credibility out the window
Bard
+Wolfgam The best champion
Yup all day
When you sign off your videos with "see you next tiiieeeemmm." It reminds me of the episode of South Park with Chris Hannnnnseeeeeeeeeen xD
Vayne best designed LUL
I'm pretty sad there is no Twisted Fate here ! Anyway I love your videos
Don't do it, don't scroll down to read the comments, it's not worth it. TRUST ME.
you just did it didn't you....? i'm sure you regret.
I believe thresh and Jayce should be on here. Thresh has an unparalleled kit making him popular, with a degree of challenge in his kit. Although Jayce has a semi overloaded kit, his lack of tankyness and his timing on when to switch between stances also makes his kit semi difficult to play, quite easily countered, and can put you in a position saying "nice outplay"
LAST
(When I wrote this comment)
I totally agree with Bard and Ori. They're pretty hard to play with, but when you make some good plays with them, you just feel like you defeated some strong boss. But i think Thresh and Wukong should be on this list (Wu might be annoying to play against, but he is so much fun to be played).
Yasuo and Zed should be here.
NightcoreAnimeLoLAssassinPlayer no.
You forgot the kappa
NightcoreAnimeLoLAssassinPlayer Biased opinion... well you can say what you want, while counterplay is there... somewhere, having a good Zed play against you can make you feel less as if you got outplayed but more just bursted into the ground without much you can do.
I know counterplay is there, but they can still be very frustrating to play against with certain parts in his kit that are just not outplayable. Or feels as if. Yasuo kinda the same, just that there is no way around Autoattacks that crit for half your health.
Vayne also has 0 skillshots + rightlcick crits
Michael Böck looks at his profile pic, yeah biased opinion.
With Nami i love doing my let then bubble combo since the wave is nearly impossible to dodge and it ends up at around a 2.5 - 3 second stun.
T-T Azir??? Azir???
I love it how when he mentions Vayne's stealth, he says that a player can "see Vayne before she does it" You can see Rengar before it does it, but Jeremy says jack shit about that...
So much Bard hate, he's a really well designed champion but there is just a really tiny amount of good Bard players.
I remember that Syndra was considered garbage when she came out until the mid lane mains got a hang of her and realised she was really good.
Saying Vayne has an ABYSMAL laning phase is an extreme exaggeration. Saying Poppy and Karthus have an abysmal laning phase actually makes better sense.
"Dodging his Q" "Getting in a position so his ult doesn't wreck you" (which is really hard mostly possible on backline champions.) And kiting lee isn't an option due to his 2 gapclosers, Q nuke, cripple and slow, and ultimate... Lee doesn't have, as far as I see, much counterplay except hoping he messes up.
Alrighty, I have a question about Vayne.
I've seen her played, played with her and against her, and I have no idea where this abysmal laning phase comes from. The only horror comes when she wont stop thumbing into the enemy every trade, but minor thought seems to solve any non-hard counter or camping.
I love your channel! I love every top 10 list you make and I think you should really invest more time and effort into increasing the quality and design of those videos. Every time I go on break I check your channel for a new top 10 or top 5 list lol keep it up
Lee Sin define the jungle meta as long as two entire seasons, and only fall of the throne after an great amount of nerfs. He was incredible broken after the release buffs. And at the same time is one of the most annoying champions in LoL for any hero with limited mobility. Mix all of this with one of the most overloaded kit.
I can't understand how it even make it to the top 50 "best designed" champions.
Keep making controversial videos; they are the best breed of videos.
early game vayne: high mechanical champion, skill required. late game vayne: R-Q-Right click= pentakill
I sure feel outplayed when Lee Sin ward-jumps behind me as a midlaner with no escape, guaranteed slows me then lands a guaranteed Q that wrecks half my HP instantly even when I'm full HP.
I was wondering if Nasus could be used as a support: he's got a really big speed and attack speed debuff and he has an armour shredding move.
I see so much stuff on how thresh should replace Nami. While thresh can make all those big plays and never once have I felt that thresh is unfair, that doesn't make him better designed than nami. She's good for all players be new or pro, she's pretty much useful at all stages of the game yet never feels over powered in any of them, she has as much counterplay as any champion can pretty much get.
I am more interested in good design as thematic cohesion: champions that make sense, have a clear identity and represent an archetype, and feel unique. I agree that Orianna is very good; she was revolutionary when she was released, though Riot's recent efforts at new mechanics tend to obscure that.
For supports, Alistar and Janna are very distinct: one is a balls-deep bull and the other an untouchable weather witch, and everything about their kit represents their theme and their gameplay role.
Zac is a really great tank concept. His kit revolves around being a blob of goo, it all looks good and isn't boring despite the strict cohesion. Every detail, including his passive (healing bits and growing with health), build on his concept.
Rengar and Nocturne are probably the coolest assassin/stalkers (yes, even if Noc isn't typically assassin-built). There is a clear theme to both, and all their abilities (except maybe Noc's shield) build on that.
In short, I like champions that aren't just a bag of abilities slapped on an unrelated visual theme, but look, feel and play like the concept they are supposed to embody. Rammus is a great tank and you can tell just by looking at his art and spell visuals. On the other hand, you have Maokai who is, err.... a nasty tree who can teleport to enemies, carry around a force field and heal with autoattacks? Or Shen, a ninja who has a shield (boring), throws a magical dagger (more boring), dashes into enemies to taunt them (because ninjas totally do that) and a teleport to ally? That he's a terrible ninja is a running joke, but really his identity (based on his kit alone) is very unclear besides.
I could go on, but you get the idea. It's not that I only play well-designed champions - both Maokai and Shen are some of my old favorites. But when you play something where "is", "does" and "looks like" go hand in hand, and you become the archetype, it adds a new level to the game.
I don't understand how Vayne can be one of the most hated champions and be a good design (won't even mention the ludicrous W or the obscene mobility)
Lee has been top tier in the jungle for years and was only unviable during the tank meta, being one of the few survivors when the jungle creeps made nearly any jungler unviable in early season 5. Plus, he is one of the few champions who is always safe from nerfs due to "community backlash" (ahem, Veigar and Cassiopeia) as well as getting buffs just because Worlds is just around the corner.
Other than that, I agree.
I'm pretty suprised to see Thresh did not make into the list, he's skill sets have really clear pros and cons, unlike blitz, and he requires fair amount of depth, but not to the point where is really hardcore like Yasuo or Riven. But I really agree with your list great work!
1. Yorick
2. Teemo
3. Karthus
4. Tryndamere
5. Annie
I think Karma is one of the best designed champion because the mechanics relies on her R (mantra) and also relies on her passive...+ the kites are very interesting and she's flexible in context that you could basically lane her any lane (except for adc) she could also support the team while playing her as other roles (advantage of her shield)
I agree with almost all points, however, I am fairly bad at the game and even I can play Vayne in certain situations. I think she is pretty okay in the early/midgame to play against but as soon as she reaches the late game she is utterly and completely broken. However, I like that you picked Orianna as #1, she is a super awesome champion with high skill mechanics but incredible potential if you get off a good ultimate. Nice vid, Jeremy!
Kinda surprised Ezreal isn't on here. Super fun to play, and literally everything he does is a skill-based move. 3 skill shots, one of which can be blocked by anything, one of which takes forever to start up, and a flash. There really is nothing more to him than being able to outplay your opponent. He's also not that annoying to play against, with his massive skillshot dependency as well as a complete and total lack of CC.
Nautilus is my choice of the best design. Clearly a tank that is slow and low in the damage department, he is a CC behemoth who can control a team fight. He has multiple ways of initiating and his CC is versatile enough to be used as peel in other situations. His bulkiness and how his whole kit fits together with not only one another, but also his character theme makes him a model for champion design.
"Well designed means not overpowered. Anyway, here's Vayne, a carry with percent-of-health true damage, automatic chase power, and spammable invis who's been top tier since she was invented."
Also Nami does counter Draven, drop on a bubble where you see his axe and he cant pick it up without being anally violated by Nami's ADC as punishment for walking into a bubble
Lee can have an impact in the late game. Kicking the carry into your team as an example.
Wait, Vayne has an abysmal laning phase? I didn't realize Graves and Sivir were the only two other ADCs in the game.
I disagree with Bard simply because he can troll his teammates with ulti and his kit also encourages him to roam and leave his laner so it's not very well designed imo. I agree with the rest, a lot of the champions with higher mechanics (lee, vayne) will seem poorly designed in lower elo as players who don't understand their kits are very easy to outplay. You can see the difference in opinions the higher the elo goes, when I play higher elo the complaints are usually about things with little to no outplay potential the lower the elo goes its the ones with outplay potential that people complain about. Higher skilled players know how to play around outplay potential, for example, an annie can flash tibbers stun you. there is next to no outplay from a fed annie where as when theres a fed lee you can avoid q's predict his w's and make sure not to line up for his r's. Lee takes a lot of skill, in the hands of a skilled player he can obviously seem op to someone with no skill, another reason people bitch about stuff like lee and yasuo and other high skilled champs is because they simply are too bad at the game to play those champs and would rather bitch about them being op than learn the champ and how to counter it. learning to play against a high skilled champ is almost as hard as learning to play them.
I can completely agree on Orianna. If I lose to her, I know i got outplayed, and when i play her and do well, i get that great self satisfaction.
Journeying next to the tower for 2 free shots, brilliant.
I really liked this list, for what it's worth. I also realized that two of my most played champs are on it, so I'm a bit biased, but I think you made good arguments for vayne and lee sin. And Orianna has always been one of the best all around champions while not being overpowered. Nice video.
I'd put Nocturne on the list.
He is described to be a nightmare, and his kit really lets you be one.
If fed as an AD assassin, his burst is very respectable
Q lets him chase w/ more Movespeed and no unit collision
E fears his target
R scares everyone on the enemy team
Aside from Devourer he's very balanced since he has very low mana pool and is rather useless if behind
The only thing with this is you saying how vi was so unfair in your worst champion countdown, But Nami kills her here at the 1v1.
Ah. We are in agreement for best designed champ! Ori has so many play styles and routes, but none is particularly overpowered compared to the others. One thing I would have loved to see touched on is her passive, which I find is sort of the snake in the grass for her opponents. They become so focused on avoiding the Ball that they forget her auto. Unlike most AP carries, her passive packs a huge hidden punch. Clockwork windup gives Raka's banana a run for its money in sniping. (Of course, I was building Nashors on her before it was meta acceptable, so I might just be biased.)
Truly, she is a fun champ to play as, even when losing, and a fun one to play against even when she's balling you hard. The fact she challenges both the player AND the opponent to think critically is hella grand design!
What do you think about Shaco and Singed ? they have a really synergical and versatile kit, with some high outplay interactive potential I think, which is not based much on skill than on mind game, which is the deepest aspect of the game. And they clearly have their weaknesses too.
But I guess you'll maybe say they feel toxic and unfair to play against when behind them, and as for Mundo and the other bruisers who at my sense have well made kits.
And last I wanted to talk about Zed, which Riot seems to feels proud of, in comparison to Lee, because he also is hard to play and versatile, his skillshots can be dodged, his movements predicted, and his ultimate countered by many ways.
Surprised Varus isn't on here. He is all skill except for his W, which is a passive. You have to aim your Q very precisely, his Ultimate can be missed if you can't aim correctly, and his E isn't exactly skill shot but you have to make sure you aim correctly or it's a waist
His fast moving and long range arrows are hard to dodge (difficult to counter play) and lack of mobility sometimes makes him frustrating to play with or against.
+Jacob0174
varus q is hard to dodge? maybe for a blind guy without hands...
I'm surprised you didn't include Ekko on that list.
Daniel Leão Kappa
Daniel Leão Honestly I don't feel he is that great of a champion design wise. I mean he is unique and good and you can like him all you want, but it does not feel as if you can do much against him as soon as he gets rolling a tiny bit.
You can of course disagree and Ekko is fun and all that stuff, just there are a few things that would put him lower on this list than spot number 5
Michael Böck i think he is a solid 7-9
Michael Böck Ekko is a bit overloaded, but a extremely fun champion
I honestly think that ahri is a pretty rounded kit as well with her charm and her ult can determine if she will survive the teamfights and kill shit or she will be the first one to die when she is running into a teamfight with out her ult and her w and q can be also be used to check bushes with her q (just listen to the animation noise) and her w can also be used to help heal her up incase she is facing someone 1v1 to heal her up a bit but her kit overall can still be outplayed if you know what your doing against an ahri
I like this list! Anyway i play mostly support (Bard, Blitzcrank, Thresh, Nami, Braum, Morgana, Annie and sometimes Vel'Koz) and mostly because I think thats most supports is well designed and therefore less objective to nerfs and buffs. And i like to get that sick KDA you can get on assists!
I couldn't agree more with your Bard choice. It's design and play mechanic is amazing.
"Not frustrating, feels fair when losing to them.. not broken or annoying"
*Vayne*
Everyone says how Vayne has an awful laning phase, which while true, bare in mind that there are gonna be those games where she gets first blood and is 3/0 by 10 mins
In my opinion, the best designed champs in league are:
1) Thresh (all around most versatile support ever. Synergizes with every ADC. Can engage or disengage. Takes a considerable amount of practice to get good with him but if you're a good thresh you'll make every ADC want your babies)
2) Zed (best ninja and assassin in the game IMO. I love the idea of the shadows he puts. Before the Nerf it created a ton of outplay potential and he's very high risk, high reward. He wasn't op or freelo. A good zed can snowball very hard. He was a totally healthy assassin and it just doesn't make sense to Nerf him.)
3) Lee Sin (I put him pretty high and I agree with him being a very well put together kit)
4) ahri (I think in the tank meta ahri is such a dominant ap mid/assassin. And her abilities give a ton of outplay potential and can also be outplayed. I don't believe that ahri has any straight counters. I think it's all skill based match ups. Such as lb, zed, yasuo, etc.)
5) Vayne (I agree that vayne has a very mediocre laning phase. However if you can make it to the late game with your core damage items, you'll be able to do many plays. She isn't op either. People think she's op cause she is anti-tank. But, she is susceptible to being focused heavily. And she is squishy. One wrong move and she's dead. She's the epitome of a high risk champion that takes a lot of mechanical skill.)
Alright i can agree with you on all but one of these.
Vayne doesn't have an abysmal early. Because of how strong her stun is early on any support that forces you into a bad spot or heck just being remotely near a wall is fatal because of how large the knock back range is. you could be close ot the middle of a lane and she'd get the stun off followed by a free kill.
I tend to ban Lee Sin, not because he's OP but because I don't want to deal with him in a game. He has too much in his kit and the change to his ultimate is crazy.
Vayne is the worst ADC, she's a faceroll right click to win champ. The only "complex" mechanic is landing the stun with her push ability.
Nobody plays Bard
my personal list of well design champions, based on every spell having a real signification to use inside the kit (ignoring power level) :
Brand, Vel'koz, Diana, Cassiopeia, Jhin, Karthus, Nocturne, Shaco, Singed, Shen (reworked), Trundle