Nicely said Mark. There is no need for rudeness, no matter what someone thinks about things. The world would be a much nicer place if people would just use some manners in their dealings with other people.
I saw a picture of a 36" jointer online (plus I remember David Marks said he knew a guy with one when you toured his shop), so I'm sure THAT would be the "ideal" one for larger shops. But yeah, that's why my ultimate plans, at least for now, are to get a 12" someday. As you basically said that'll handle nearly anything besides giant slabs. And I'm also planning on getting it with a carbide insert cutterhead. Those things last FOREVER.
Couple things. First, a planer will only follow the flatness of the existing surface. So if there is a twist, the planer will not remove it. You need a flat reference surface to start with. Second thing is that jointers are not just used for edges. They are used to flatten both faces and edges prior to sending through the planer.
great video. but my jointer has a rabbet extension that gets in the way after my first pass. so i need alot of hand planing to get it close especially if they have a twist
I sell hardwoods every once in a while to a serious woodworker. He has shown me pics (on his i-phone) of some of his work. It's stunning. He has a 20" Oliver jointer. He is my hero, naturally.
Hey Whisperer, I have an idear. I have them from time to time. Is there some kind of surface that you could move this slab over, to demonstrate where the low bits are? It would mark the low bits so you could focus the hand planer on those areas.
Hey Marc, I might have asked this before, but I can't remember exactly. My question is this: Would you ever upgrade to a 10", 12", or 16" jointer? When I get my own house someday (hopefully with a decent sized detached garage that I'll turn into my shop), I'm thinking about getting a 12" one. Just wondering what you thought of these wider jointers.
Yeah, I know what you mean about shop size. Right now, my shop is in the 3rd bay of the garage of my parents' house, which isn't much room. Trying to fit a 12" in there with all my other tools and our second fridge would be like trying to park more than 3 cars in the garage! But I have used boards that were at least somewhat wider than 8" on several occasions. I especially like building things like tables, chests, and other things that involve panels, which I prefer to make with wider boards.
You can also just make a sled for your planer out of 3/4" ply with a cleat at the front. Just shim your stock so it doesn't rock for warped pieces, and in the middle for bowed pieces with the concave side down. I use hot glue so the shims don't move. It doesn't have to be perfect. Note that the end with the cleat goes first into the planer This way you don't even need a jointer at all and is easier than hand planes.
Because it's a machine that preps the boards for joining. I think Europe and Australia have terminology that is a little more clear though. They call it a planer. And what we call a planer, they call a thicknesser.
Jointer size all comes down to what you build. Myself I had a 12" and I actualy sold it off and now have a 8". Size of your shop is a major concern and to tell you the truth, I never have anything larger than 7"-7 1/2" wide boards to face joint. The 12" was close to 900 lbs and tough to move on a modified base, but the 8" is a piece of pie to move around, plus having a full 76 1/2" bed length is great...
Great tips! I have one question, Why the diagonal hand plane technique? Does going diagonal to the grain make a smoother or more efficient cut? I have never seen that before and am very curious. Thanks
And if you did not have a jointer or hand planes,there is a way to flatten a wide board? You can set up a router on a jig to plane the board. That might be a nice method to illustrate, Mark.
In Danish a jointer is called an 'afretter(høvl)' which essentially means 'square up (plane)', which makes sense, since you use it to create two sides which are square relative to each other :)
I am struggling to take a cup out of a 3/4" thick 12" wide glue up using the jointer/paner combo. I can achieve the 8" flat surface but then going through the planer the rollers mash the high cupped end this planing the whole surface and leaving the cup. I have also tried flipped the piece but then ended up having the cup in the opposite direction.
Reviewing what I put, I left out an important part. Have some kind of charcoal or dark wax that could basically replicate the scribble marks that you put on for height labelling. So a sheet with charcoal on it that you drag the workpiece over. The dark bits are the high bits.
I just used this procedure to flatten a twisted piece of 6/4 cherry.. It flattened the board nearly perfectly flat BUT... it was very difficult controlling the "rocking" as I proceeded ending up with one corner 1" thick and the other a good 1 3/8" +or- Any ideas? Using a sled with the stock shimmed seems it would give a better margin of control of where the material is removed from.
This is why I'm building an 18inch joiner to match my 18 inch woodmaster planer. The cutter head comes out of the woodmaster with little problem so I'm going to design the joiner around that cutter head.
If you're pretty good with one I suppose it wouldn't be a bad way to hog away material. But I haven't had enough time with one to use it for something like this.
I have a vanity that sat outside for a long time. the desk top got warped and It is wider than my planer. how can I use my electric hand planer and not leave ridges/grooves/ and leave it perfectly smooth ? or is that possible ?
If the top can be removed, you can also try a jig like this one with a router: th-cam.com/video/J_l9kZdQu9E/w-d-xo.html Seems like hand planes would be more efficient, but if they're not an option...
That could work. Maybe coat a piece of plywood with the charcoal, set that plywood on a nice flat surface and then rub the board on top of that. Kind of like when the dentist fits a crown. :)
I don't understand why your planer did not bite into the board before it got to the "high" part that your jointer missed. I do not understand how a planer works. It seems to me that it must bite into the wood wherever it is placed.
Hi. In this case You may use a router with flush trimming router bit. I do it so and it works fine. I use my veeeery expensive hand plane only if I want to feel the Beauty of my work sometimes... :-)
Oh I'd love to have a larger jointer. Ideally, It would be nice to have one that matches the size of my planer. But for most boards we work with, a 12" jointer would cover about 99%. And 8" jointer covers about 95%. Of course I'm pulling these numbers out of my butt, but you see what I'm getting at. :)
If you did that, you would need the piece to be riding just on the little ledge created from the original jointing, meaning 8" of the wood would just be floating. If you let the newly jointed face sit on the jointer, the whole board would be slanted and you would be jointing that face into the wood. With the blade guard off and having to support the board from the bottom (right next to the blades!) so it doesn't droop, would be very dangerous.
If you were going to spin it, why would you joint 6" then 2", wouldn't it make more sense to do 4" then the other 4", so it could support itself? Am I missing something here?
If you understood how a jointer worked, you would understand why this won't work. Essentially, you would end up with two flat surfaces at slightly different angles, especially if there was any twist in your board. This is because the board rides on its high spots, and the highspots for one side will be different than the highspots for the other side. This is why people who buy larger jointers usually do so as much for the bed length as for the width as jointing works best when the entire piece is on the bed of the jointer.
Nice video, alternatively you can just run it through the jointer like you did and put a slightly narrower plywood under it to make it flat. Hot glue both ends and then run it through the planer to flatten the top and then flip it around and plane the other side.
Not sure what video you're watching Joe but you should probably get your facts straight. I use eye protection religiously when I work with power tools. Now you may not actually see me going through the act of putting on safety glasses between scenes but that certainly doesn't mean it didn't happen. I challenge you to find a portion of any of my videos where you can actually see me using a power tool without protection. So check your facts before you go casting insults and accusations like this.
Not sure exactly what Joe said, but at 11 seconds into your video, there is a still picture of you using a table saw w/o eye protection. I'm guessing the picture was staged and the saw was off (since I can see the teeth), but one such as I could be pedantic enough to point that out.
No. The planer's ability to flatten a surface is only as good as the surface that's riding on the bed. It's goal is to make the upper surface parallel to the lower surface. So if there's a twist in the board, the planer will just duplicate that twist on the top side. So you have to start with a flat surface facing down, which is the whole premise for the techniques in this video.
Here in the EU market for jointers (we call them planers) you don't seem to get any machines that DONT have a flush edge along the outfeed table, which makes this technique literally impossible. Fucking frustrating. Any way around this do you think?
Any flat surface should do just that. A tablesaw surface is a good example. Anything sitting above the surface would be a "low point." Not sure if that's what you mean, but that usually works for me.
A known flat surface. I've been in search of finding and making such a device. After going through multiple squares and rulers that are anything but square or straight. I have ended up with a taught chalk string. Which shows straight but will not show warped. I've bought metal and particle board which temperature warps both over time. Sorry just gotta laugh at straightness. It evades me like an alcoholic or drug addict evades the police. Straight, level and square. Do these words actually exist in reality I keep wondering. Or is everyone on earth playing tricks on me and just making squares and straightedges that are warped to their out of wackness, to fool everyone else. "Liars"
Nicely said Mark. There is no need for rudeness, no matter what someone thinks about things. The world would be a much nicer place if people would just use some manners in their dealings with other people.
I saw a picture of a 36" jointer online (plus I remember David Marks said he knew a guy with one when you toured his shop), so I'm sure THAT would be the "ideal" one for larger shops. But yeah, that's why my ultimate plans, at least for now, are to get a 12" someday. As you basically said that'll handle nearly anything besides giant slabs. And I'm also planning on getting it with a carbide insert cutterhead. Those things last FOREVER.
I like that you have ads relevant to the show, unlike selling ad time through youtube.
Marc thanks for giving us access to this excellent Resource !
We have a series of videos showing how to build the workbench, but it's part of our Wood Whisperer Guild premium site.
Couple things. First, a planer will only follow the flatness of the existing surface. So if there is a twist, the planer will not remove it. You need a flat reference surface to start with. Second thing is that jointers are not just used for edges. They are used to flatten both faces and edges prior to sending through the planer.
Hi , I like your woodworking bench top. do you have some info on that, or some directions?
great video. but my jointer has a rabbet extension that gets in the way after my first pass. so i need alot of hand planing to get it close especially if they have a twist
I sell hardwoods every once in a while to a serious woodworker. He has shown me pics (on his i-phone) of some of his work. It's stunning. He has a 20" Oliver jointer. He is my hero, naturally.
Hey Whisperer, I have an idear. I have them from time to time. Is there some kind of surface that you could move this slab over, to demonstrate where the low bits are? It would mark the low bits so you could focus the hand planer on those areas.
Is there any value to using a hand-held power planer when performing operations like these?
Nice wood blank for a solid guitar body! Excellent tutorial!
Hey Marc, I might have asked this before, but I can't remember exactly. My question is this: Would you ever upgrade to a 10", 12", or 16" jointer? When I get my own house someday (hopefully with a decent sized detached garage that I'll turn into my shop), I'm thinking about getting a 12" one. Just wondering what you thought of these wider jointers.
Yeah, I know what you mean about shop size. Right now, my shop is in the 3rd bay of the garage of my parents' house, which isn't much room. Trying to fit a 12" in there with all my other tools and our second fridge would be like trying to park more than 3 cars in the garage!
But I have used boards that were at least somewhat wider than 8" on several occasions. I especially like building things like tables, chests, and other things that involve panels, which I prefer to make with wider boards.
You can also just make a sled for your planer out of 3/4" ply with a cleat at the front. Just shim your stock so it doesn't rock for warped pieces, and in the middle for bowed pieces with the concave side down. I use hot glue so the shims don't move. It doesn't have to be perfect. Note that the end with the cleat goes first into the planer This way you don't even need a jointer at all and is easier than hand planes.
That's really brilliant (with the riding sheet)!
Great video as always, thanks for the great information!
As usual great informative vid Marc...but did u not cover this topic in other video when u made a computer desk/table for your home?....
sounds like a good plan to me!
Because it's a machine that preps the boards for joining. I think Europe and Australia have terminology that is a little more clear though. They call it a planer. And what we call a planer, they call a thicknesser.
Jointer size all comes down to what you build. Myself I had a 12" and I actualy sold it off and now have a 8". Size of your shop is a major concern and to tell you the truth, I never have anything larger than 7"-7 1/2" wide boards to face joint.
The 12" was close to 900 lbs and tough to move on a modified base, but the 8" is a piece of pie to move around, plus having a full 76 1/2" bed length is great...
Great tips! I have one question, Why the diagonal hand plane technique? Does going diagonal to the grain make a smoother or more efficient cut? I have never seen that before and am very curious. Thanks
And if you did not have a jointer or hand planes,there is a way to flatten a wide board? You can set up a router on a jig to plane the board. That might be a nice method to illustrate, Mark.
dificil ver un joven con taller y lo mas importante con conocimiento, eres de los que alegran a los padres
In Danish a jointer is called an 'afretter(høvl)' which essentially means 'square up (plane)', which makes sense, since you use it to create two sides which are square relative to each other :)
I am struggling to take a cup out of a 3/4" thick 12" wide glue up using the jointer/paner combo. I can achieve the 8" flat surface but then going through the planer the rollers mash the high cupped end this planing the whole surface and leaving the cup. I have also tried flipped the piece but then ended up having the cup in the opposite direction.
There's a 16" "Lobo" brand jointer on ebay right now for $1945 OBO brand new. Never heard of the brand but it looks to be pretty heavy duty.
Reviewing what I put, I left out an important part. Have some kind of charcoal or dark wax that could basically replicate the scribble marks that you put on for height labelling. So a sheet with charcoal on it that you drag the workpiece over. The dark bits are the high bits.
I just used this procedure to flatten a twisted piece of 6/4 cherry.. It flattened the board nearly perfectly flat BUT... it was very difficult controlling the "rocking" as I proceeded ending up with one corner 1" thick and the other a good 1 3/8" +or- Any ideas? Using a sled with the stock shimmed seems it would give a better margin of control of where the material is removed from.
Did you have to buy those tools or did the sponsors give it to you just courious
This is why I'm building an 18inch joiner to match my 18 inch woodmaster planer. The cutter head comes out of the woodmaster with little problem so I'm going to design the joiner around that cutter head.
how much did that slab cost?
If you're pretty good with one I suppose it wouldn't be a bad way to hog away material. But I haven't had enough time with one to use it for something like this.
I have a vanity that sat outside for a long time. the desk top got warped and It is wider than my planer. how can I use my electric hand planer and not leave ridges/grooves/ and leave it perfectly smooth ? or is that possible ?
+Steven Mendez electric planers rarely do a good job, they are more for construction type tasks. You are FAR better off with a half decent hand plane.
If the top can be removed, you can also try a jig like this one with a router:
th-cam.com/video/J_l9kZdQu9E/w-d-xo.html
Seems like hand planes would be more efficient, but if they're not an option...
That could work. Maybe coat a piece of plywood with the charcoal, set that plywood on a nice flat surface and then rub the board on top of that. Kind of like when the dentist fits a crown. :)
"coat a piece of plywood with the charcoal" what does that even mean?????????
Thanks for the freebie!
I don't understand why your planer did not bite into the board before it got to the "high" part that your jointer missed. I do not understand how a planer works. It seems to me that it must bite into the wood wherever it is placed.
Typically you take shallow passes through a planer, so you will actually plane a face several times before you get them to take a full clean pass.
Hi. In this case You may use a router with flush trimming router bit. I do it so and it works fine.
I use my veeeery expensive hand plane only if I want to feel the Beauty of my work sometimes... :-)
Oh I'd love to have a larger jointer. Ideally, It would be nice to have one that matches the size of my planer. But for most boards we work with, a 12" jointer would cover about 99%. And 8" jointer covers about 95%. Of course I'm pulling these numbers out of my butt, but you see what I'm getting at. :)
What would happen if you just spun the piece and ran in through the jointer ?
It wouldn't work because the jointer would shave off what's left and leave another strip on the other side of the board.
If you did that, you would need the piece to be riding just on the little ledge created from the original jointing, meaning 8" of the wood would just be floating. If you let the newly jointed face sit on the jointer, the whole board would be slanted and you would be jointing that face into the wood. With the blade guard off and having to support the board from the bottom (right next to the blades!) so it doesn't droop, would be very dangerous.
If you were going to spin it, why would you joint 6" then 2", wouldn't it make more sense to do 4" then the other 4", so it could support itself? Am I missing something here?
edvard brown
I was thinking the same thing. just do half then another half. you can use a board as a fence to make it straight.
If you understood how a jointer worked, you would understand why this won't work. Essentially, you would end up with two flat surfaces at slightly different angles, especially if there was any twist in your board. This is because the board rides on its high spots, and the highspots for one side will be different than the highspots for the other side. This is why people who buy larger jointers usually do so as much for the bed length as for the width as jointing works best when the entire piece is on the bed of the jointer.
marc build a router plane thats what i do works a treat, use a large diameter router bit
Coming soon. :)
Yes, exactly. I always find it hard to get the plywood out of my mouth though.
Honestly can't remember. Was a while ago.
Nice video, alternatively you can just run it through the jointer like you did and put a slightly narrower plywood under it to make it flat. Hot glue both ends and then run it through the planer to flatten the top and then flip it around and plane the other side.
Francis Pham That's exactly what he did.
Not sure what video you're watching Joe but you should probably get your facts straight. I use eye protection religiously when I work with power tools. Now you may not actually see me going through the act of putting on safety glasses between scenes but that certainly doesn't mean it didn't happen. I challenge you to find a portion of any of my videos where you can actually see me using a power tool without protection. So check your facts before you go casting insults and accusations like this.
Not sure exactly what Joe said, but at 11 seconds into your video, there is a still picture of you using a table saw w/o eye protection. I'm guessing the picture was staged and the saw was off (since I can see the teeth), but one such as I could be pedantic enough to point that out.
Because you should have one side nice and flat before running it through the planer.
"I'm a little bit high in the corner"...I hate when that happens
Typical Friday night really.
could you have just sent it through the planer to straighten it out?
No. The planer's ability to flatten a surface is only as good as the surface that's riding on the bed. It's goal is to make the upper surface parallel to the lower surface. So if there's a twist in the board, the planer will just duplicate that twist on the top side. So you have to start with a flat surface facing down, which is the whole premise for the techniques in this video.
not familiar with Lobo the tool company. Now Lobo the DC comic character, that's a different story.:)
Here in the EU market for jointers (we call them planers) you don't seem to get any machines that DONT have a flush edge along the outfeed table, which makes this technique literally impossible. Fucking frustrating. Any way around this do you think?
Any flat surface should do just that. A tablesaw surface is a good example. Anything sitting above the surface would be a "low point." Not sure if that's what you mean, but that usually works for me.
Excellent!!!
why is it called a jointer it joins nothing
wakaphwap It prepares a perfectly flat smooth surface, ready for joining pieces.
" Clock" No battery in it or did it take 12 hours exactly to do video? LOL! Just a bit of humor yo!
My hands planes are junk. They are making boards uneven
nope. That was skip-planing.
On a planer that is...
A known flat surface.
I've been in search of finding and making such a device.
After going through multiple squares and rulers that are anything but square or straight.
I have ended up with a taught chalk string.
Which shows straight but will not show warped.
I've bought metal and particle board which temperature warps both over time.
Sorry just gotta laugh at straightness. It evades me like an alcoholic or drug addict evades the police.
Straight, level and square.
Do these words actually exist in reality I keep wondering.
Or is everyone on earth playing tricks on me and just making squares and straightedges that are warped to their out of wackness, to fool everyone else.
"Liars"
jointer, not joiner
+Chris R Who said "joiner?"
+The Wood Whisperer 0:37, 1:06, 1:12, 3:56, 3:59, 4:01, 4:46, 6:52.
+Chris R Sounds like he says "jointer" to me. Guess he doesn't enunciate enough for you? lol
+Chris R Oh and I'm pretty sure he knows the proper pronunciation of these woodworking tools. lol
JamestheTrainEnthusiast
could be.
that's the quietest planer I've ever heard.
+Louis Cypher helical cutter heads greatly reduce noise compared to conventional planer blades