Thanks to all that brought up the issue I was having with pinch to zoom. Special shout out to @mark_madel who figured it out. If you go into eink settings while in NeoReader, click on the circled arrow, there is an option to "Drag to Refresh'. I had that set to 'No Refresh' which then resulted in what we see in this video. If I had picked the other two options, it would have resembled more like what we see with the reMarkable Paper Pro or the Note Air 4C. I still think the latter two devices are smoother, but with this setting toggled, the pinch and zoom is significantly better. And that's why this is a great community!
Great review. As I've said before, if there was no Supernote, this is probably the device I would land on. The size and annotation features are perfect for my needs. The Supernote functionality is just so much better.
I absolutely love my Max. I also loved the Tab X and did not plan to update, thinking that the differences would be slight. Boy, was I wrong! The way people talk about the ghosting in some of the reviews makes it sound atrocious, but it really only detracts from the enjoyment of the device for me by about 5%, and there is a strong chance they will be improving that. And you can clear it rather easily.
Yeah, that's my experience as well. I'm okay with low level ghosting on my devices, so long as it doesn't interfere with the image I'm reading. That's why I set my page refresh to a gesture control -- so I can do it on demand when I think it's needed.
Great video series. At about 21:45 you mention note taking was not a prominent, and I would dispute you on that point. Interestingly my dispute would argue the same points you used to justify the opposing view. Cost; the jump from 10 inch, or about A5 paper at $300... To 13 inch, or about A4 paper at $600... Is a very straight forward up scaling. As a student of math & science the doubling in writable area from A5 to A4 would be a great advantage when writing lecture now, or any general now taking that was previously written on A4 sized notebook paper. The whole idea of replacing traditional paper with e-paper is most easily achieved by directly replacing. So this size is great for notes, and I could imagine writing out a page worth of calculus for a single difficult problem with this size. That said, I've been using the 10 inch Note 4c for a few weeks and it works just fine for academic stuff. The notes books simply use more pages, and the pad is more cluttered due to side menus.
@@JonDisnard I think this STEM use case really shows the value of the larger screen. I totally agree that being able to complete an answer in a single page vs two or more is a significant benefit.
Yeah, I agree actually. That was just my thought process going into reviewing the device, but having since been hands-on, I really like notetaking on the large screen. I should point out that I generally take notes with my device flat on a table, so the size isn't an issue (e.g. I'm not holding it and taking notes at the same time.)
Thanks for your reviews Jeffrey - you always provide many worthwhile insights. I wanted to mention that I'm currently trying out a Note Max and my device does support seeing the PDF shrink and expand during pinch and zoom. For me, it was simply an E-ink Center setting: "Drag to Refresh" should not be set to "No refresh".
Very fair review. I think the ghosting, such as it is, is a secondary con. maybe I am less sensitive to it than others. as an e-ink desk device for note taking it is outstanding in my opinion. I just hope that it is robust enough to be portable without the screen being vulnerable to gentle daily knocks.
I actually think it's a secondary con for me as well. But I know some folks are really sensitive to ghosting and are kind of unforgiving about it, so I felt like I had to make that a primary con. There's always a little bit of art as to what is primary or secondary, and ghosting here is a good example of that.
@ I’m sure almost everything you say is wrong (to someone). That’s why I could never do what you do. I think you do a great job in responding to feedback without being personally offended by it.
It sounded like a minor thing to me until I saw videos saying that the instant refresh still leaves ghosting. That feels like a bit of a failure to me. I assume there's a delay or something?
@@geneticjen9312 Which setting in particular? I can try that out and verify. I personally just use the swipe from below feature to remove ghosting on demand, which works well for me as I don't feel compelled to use it that often. And when I swipe ghosting away, it works just fine.
@@davidr1431 Appreciate that. I try to ground myself by knowing that everyone is coming in with their own thoughts and preferences and I'm just here to help where I can. I try to meet people where they are and worry less about being offended, but there are some days . . . .
I've never had the Max Lumi 1, so I can't say. I did try the Max Lumi 2 and did not like it at all. I think the Max is way better. But ultimately, if you are good with what you've got, I'd just stick with it. The longer you hold out for a new device, the more that eventual device will be a major improvement.
@@BanditZA There were a few factors. It had a mobius screen, which is fine in itself, but I found it to give way too much. I thought the cover was too floppy and not really well thought out for the larger device. The software, at the time, was really built around 10" screens, so there weren't any templates that took advantage of the large screen. So I felt like the templates I did have were just stretched out. It was bulky and cumbersome, and I have to say the Max has some of those elements as well, but with the latter I didn't focus on that as much as I did with the Lumi given all the other disadvantages. I was just disappointed overall. It was the only time I tried to return a device, and that's when I learned how bad the Boox return process was. I ended up selling it on ebay.
I bought the NA4C because I valued front lighting, fingerprint reader, and expandable storage. I'm not going to lie, I feel a bit of FOMO every time I see the Note Max because one of my main uses is reading PDFs and that sweet 13.3" screen is unparalleled for that. But when I see the ghosting and the sluggishness of the Max, I'm glad that I chose the NA4C. The Max seems to be a B, while the NA4C is a solid A. I hope the Max continues to improve with software updates because it has a real niche to fill in the e-ink space. I may eventually pick one up refurbished or used to supplement my NA4C because those academic journals would sure look sweet on that large, crisp screen!
I've just discovered these devices today and am thinking that an e-ink tablet (the Boox Note Max in particular) may be perfect for my use case. I"m a musician (a drummer) and often need to have sheet music + hand written notes printed in a binder that I can read on a music stand. It would be amazing if I could scan the sheet music I needed for a show, create an "e-book" for that particular show, and easily be able to find the page with the music/notes for a song within seconds and read from the tablet rather than having to bring printed music in a binder. The fact that this a the size of a standard sheet of paper is great so I can read from it at a distance and, it "looks like" the screen is "anti glare", which would be important to me because of stage lighting. I'm guessing I would use OneNote for this. But as I've said, I'm just discovering this technology now, so leaving this comment here in case someone has an opinion on this. I left this same comment on another reviewer's video as well, but just discovered your 4 vid series on this and figured I'd fish for opinions here as well. Great 4 videos on this - ty
I recall seeing someone in Reddit talk about using the device for sheet music and tying it to a bluetooth page turner. Here's a link to that post: www.reddit.com/r/Onyx_Boox/comments/1i7gtqx/boox_max_review_as_a_musician/. Hope that helps!
Thanks for your review and thoughts. As to the workflow (i.e. links, headers and references), is the Note as effective as the Supernote Manta or a bit behind? I'm returning my Remarkable PP since it lacks the above said features and I'm trying to choose between the supernote and note max (its larger screen is clearly a pro in my view).
My personal opinion is that the Note Max isn't quite as good as the Manta for notetaking. But there is a bit of splitting hairs there, in that the Boox notetaking app is still really good. So personal preference is certainly a factor here. I just find that the Supernote has better options for flow (e.g. getting things done in a smooth manner which is helpful when taking notes during a meeting). I do a better job of explaining that toward the end of my Manta review video.
Yeah, the only problem is that there is a 13" Kaleido device coming out with color, the next version of the Quaderno, and it comes with 207PPI in B&W and 103PPI in color. I'm not crazy about those stats. Now if it were 300PPI B&W and 150 color, that would be something else.
@@jeffreymoss given the "these light functions don't apply" buttons on the Max's keyboard I have to wonder if Onyx knows something we don't about E-Ink's coming display portfolio.
I'm not sure I understand the question. There is a Font Display settings (style and size) for the system that you can set. But were you referring to in the AI app itself? If so, I don't see a setting there.
Been loving your reviews on the many eInk devices out there. I like how in-depth you go on them. I’d love to see your take on the iFlyTek AiNote Air 2 - it looks like an amazing device for reading and note-taking, specially for meetings. Have you seen it?
They reached out to me to do a review on two occasions but we couldn't come to terms, so it didn't happen. I might review it later in the year. We'll see.
I am definitely on Team Moss when it comes to not just the NeoReader UX but Boox's UX in general. imo they could use a complete top down refresh of a lot of stuff. the design language is just kind of dated. that said, I am frankly totally in love with my Note Max -- the performance combined with the display and screen feel is just incredibly compelling to me, and *when the keyboard case works correctly* (🙄) i find typing on it to be really rewarding. great review as always, Jeffrey -- thanks!
I haven't noticed that, and I tried to replicate it with no success. But the device will sometimes hang on me and I just have to wait it out. Most of the time it's fine, but every once in a while I run into that.
I don’t understand, I have the Note Max and pinch to zoom works exactly like the Note Air 4C, Regal mode too, Neo Reader too. Are your settings different?
That's strange. What is your refresh setting? I usually go with the default settings. I may have changed one and forgotten about it, but I can't imagine what setting would cause that effect.
Contrary to my expectation but i am not convinced that the 300ppi dark ghosty Note Max represents a worthwhile upgrade to my 207ppi dark ghosty Boox Max 3. I am inclined to sit this one out and wait for the next iteration. Btw i can vouch for the robustness of the Mobius screen, inadvertent pressure caused the bezel to crack slightly but the screen remained intact. I suspect that the new glass display may not be quite so forgiving. Thanks for your usual magnificent evaluation.
@BanditZA I just think that the next iteration will be better, if I didn't already have a 13.3" screen I am not convinced that I could resist the impulse. Your Lumi is still pretty impressive, even more so than the max3
had a NA4C and returned it. This was my first e-ink device. I loved two things: 1. my eyes felt way better, 2, the writing experience was AMAZING. I hated 4 things: 1. quality control issues and quite difficult to repair. 2. I cannot trust a chinese company with notes I would take at work, sorry but i just cannot and the fact that the device calls home scares me. 3. The exported notes look nothing like the way they look on the device - starting with the colors ( yes, i understand e-ink doesn't have the fidelity of a traditional display) they should just leave them at the saturation, vibrance and contrast that i can see on the e-ink device, otherwise it;s just weird, i can get accustomed to using those dull colours but not with the difference between devices, just transform them to look sort of the same. 4. I wanted a device that has frontlight, has android, bsr and has SOME colours to play with in taking notes, don't really care about reading comic books and consuming color media, but the screen on the NA4C was just too dark, needed to crank up my frontlight too much ( hurts the eyes and consumes too much battery) - this is not their fault, i know that the e-ink color panel tech isn't where it should be right now, but it was still something I did not enjoy, back to my ipad - eyes hurt more but... yeah.
That speaks to the big problem folks have. The best way to know if a device is good for them is to get some hands on time before making a purchase, but those opportunities are rare. TH-cam videos have a good place in trying to rectify that, but there's a limit to what they can convey, and invariably there's a bit of leap of faith to make a purchase one hopes aligns with their preferences. That's why I recommend folks buy from a retailer who has a good return policy. Sounds like that was the case with you, which was fortuitus.
Oh my, no. Do you mean the color PDF example? I pulled that from on-line. I think it's called Lecture 17, or something like that. Actually, it's an interesting read and not that long.
Thanks to all that brought up the issue I was having with pinch to zoom. Special shout out to @mark_madel who figured it out. If you go into eink settings while in NeoReader, click on the circled arrow, there is an option to "Drag to Refresh'. I had that set to 'No Refresh' which then resulted in what we see in this video. If I had picked the other two options, it would have resembled more like what we see with the reMarkable Paper Pro or the Note Air 4C. I still think the latter two devices are smoother, but with this setting toggled, the pinch and zoom is significantly better.
And that's why this is a great community!
Great review. As I've said before, if there was no Supernote, this is probably the device I would land on. The size and annotation features are perfect for my needs. The Supernote functionality is just so much better.
Thank you for this excellent series of reviews.
I absolutely love my Max. I also loved the Tab X and did not plan to update, thinking that the differences would be slight. Boy, was I wrong! The way people talk about the ghosting in some of the reviews makes it sound atrocious, but it really only detracts from the enjoyment of the device for me by about 5%, and there is a strong chance they will be improving that. And you can clear it rather easily.
Yeah, that's my experience as well. I'm okay with low level ghosting on my devices, so long as it doesn't interfere with the image I'm reading. That's why I set my page refresh to a gesture control -- so I can do it on demand when I think it's needed.
Great in-depth video series. I love my Note Max too, though I still haven’t used it to it’s max potential
Great video series. At about 21:45 you mention note taking was not a prominent, and I would dispute you on that point. Interestingly my dispute would argue the same points you used to justify the opposing view. Cost; the jump from 10 inch, or about A5 paper at $300... To 13 inch, or about A4 paper at $600... Is a very straight forward up scaling. As a student of math & science the doubling in writable area from A5 to A4 would be a great advantage when writing lecture now, or any general now taking that was previously written on A4 sized notebook paper. The whole idea of replacing traditional paper with e-paper is most easily achieved by directly replacing. So this size is great for notes, and I could imagine writing out a page worth of calculus for a single difficult problem with this size. That said, I've been using the 10 inch Note 4c for a few weeks and it works just fine for academic stuff. The notes books simply use more pages, and the pad is more cluttered due to side menus.
@@JonDisnard I think this STEM use case really shows the value of the larger screen. I totally agree that being able to complete an answer in a single page vs two or more is a significant benefit.
Yeah, I agree actually. That was just my thought process going into reviewing the device, but having since been hands-on, I really like notetaking on the large screen. I should point out that I generally take notes with my device flat on a table, so the size isn't an issue (e.g. I'm not holding it and taking notes at the same time.)
Thanks for your reviews Jeffrey - you always provide many worthwhile insights. I wanted to mention that I'm currently trying out a Note Max and my device does support seeing the PDF shrink and expand during pinch and zoom. For me, it was simply an E-ink Center setting: "Drag to Refresh" should not be set to "No refresh".
Ah, that might be it. Let me try that!
Very fair review. I think the ghosting, such as it is, is a secondary con. maybe I am less sensitive to it than others. as an e-ink desk device for note taking it is outstanding in my opinion. I just hope that it is robust enough to be portable without the screen being vulnerable to gentle daily knocks.
I actually think it's a secondary con for me as well. But I know some folks are really sensitive to ghosting and are kind of unforgiving about it, so I felt like I had to make that a primary con. There's always a little bit of art as to what is primary or secondary, and ghosting here is a good example of that.
@ I’m sure almost everything you say is wrong (to someone). That’s why I could never do what you do. I think you do a great job in responding to feedback without being personally offended by it.
It sounded like a minor thing to me until I saw videos saying that the instant refresh still leaves ghosting. That feels like a bit of a failure to me. I assume there's a delay or something?
@@geneticjen9312 Which setting in particular? I can try that out and verify. I personally just use the swipe from below feature to remove ghosting on demand, which works well for me as I don't feel compelled to use it that often. And when I swipe ghosting away, it works just fine.
@@davidr1431 Appreciate that. I try to ground myself by knowing that everyone is coming in with their own thoughts and preferences and I'm just here to help where I can. I try to meet people where they are and worry less about being offended, but there are some days . . . .
Should I get this to replace a Max Lumi 1 that still serves me fine? How is the darkness of the screen in comparison?
I've never had the Max Lumi 1, so I can't say. I did try the Max Lumi 2 and did not like it at all. I think the Max is way better. But ultimately, if you are good with what you've got, I'd just stick with it. The longer you hold out for a new device, the more that eventual device will be a major improvement.
@ why did you consider the Max to be superior to the Lumi 2?
@@BanditZA There were a few factors. It had a mobius screen, which is fine in itself, but I found it to give way too much. I thought the cover was too floppy and not really well thought out for the larger device. The software, at the time, was really built around 10" screens, so there weren't any templates that took advantage of the large screen. So I felt like the templates I did have were just stretched out. It was bulky and cumbersome, and I have to say the Max has some of those elements as well, but with the latter I didn't focus on that as much as I did with the Lumi given all the other disadvantages. I was just disappointed overall. It was the only time I tried to return a device, and that's when I learned how bad the Boox return process was. I ended up selling it on ebay.
@@jeffreymoss Thanks Jeffery for taking the time. Your comments section has steeled my nerves and allowed me to stay my hand for the next generation.
I bought the NA4C because I valued front lighting, fingerprint reader, and expandable storage. I'm not going to lie, I feel a bit of FOMO every time I see the Note Max because one of my main uses is reading PDFs and that sweet 13.3" screen is unparalleled for that. But when I see the ghosting and the sluggishness of the Max, I'm glad that I chose the NA4C. The Max seems to be a B, while the NA4C is a solid A.
I hope the Max continues to improve with software updates because it has a real niche to fill in the e-ink space. I may eventually pick one up refurbished or used to supplement my NA4C because those academic journals would sure look sweet on that large, crisp screen!
The NA4C is a beast and you shouldn't worry about other devices for some time. You've got a winner.
I want to get a reader for sheet music as more and more of it is going digital. This looks like it might fit the bill.
18:44 - I thought the screen was plastic _[Mobius],_ didn't realise it was glass... that would be worrying.
I've just discovered these devices today and am thinking that an e-ink tablet (the Boox Note Max in particular) may be perfect for my use case. I"m a musician (a drummer) and often need to have sheet music + hand written notes printed in a binder that I can read on a music stand. It would be amazing if I could scan the sheet music I needed for a show, create an "e-book" for that particular show, and easily be able to find the page with the music/notes for a song within seconds and read from the tablet rather than having to bring printed music in a binder. The fact that this a the size of a standard sheet of paper is great so I can read from it at a distance and, it "looks like" the screen is "anti glare", which would be important to me because of stage lighting. I'm guessing I would use OneNote for this. But as I've said, I'm just discovering this technology now, so leaving this comment here in case someone has an opinion on this. I left this same comment on another reviewer's video as well, but just discovered your 4 vid series on this and figured I'd fish for opinions here as well. Great 4 videos on this - ty
I recall seeing someone in Reddit talk about using the device for sheet music and tying it to a bluetooth page turner. Here's a link to that post: www.reddit.com/r/Onyx_Boox/comments/1i7gtqx/boox_max_review_as_a_musician/. Hope that helps!
@@jeffreymoss This is exactly what I was looking for (and hoping for) - thx again!
Thanks for your review and thoughts. As to the workflow (i.e. links, headers and references), is the Note as effective as the Supernote Manta or a bit behind? I'm returning my Remarkable PP since it lacks the above said features and I'm trying to choose between the supernote and note max (its larger screen is clearly a pro in my view).
My personal opinion is that the Note Max isn't quite as good as the Manta for notetaking. But there is a bit of splitting hairs there, in that the Boox notetaking app is still really good. So personal preference is certainly a factor here. I just find that the Supernote has better options for flow (e.g. getting things done in a smooth manner which is helpful when taking notes during a meeting). I do a better job of explaining that toward the end of my Manta review video.
Thanks! I just placed an order for the Supernote manta!!
I can't wait for the Boox Note Max C.
Yeah, the only problem is that there is a 13" Kaleido device coming out with color, the next version of the Quaderno, and it comes with 207PPI in B&W and 103PPI in color. I'm not crazy about those stats. Now if it were 300PPI B&W and 150 color, that would be something else.
@@jeffreymoss given the "these light functions don't apply" buttons on the Max's keyboard I have to wonder if Onyx knows something we don't about E-Ink's coming display portfolio.
@ Time will tell! I expect there will be a few surprises in the eink space this year.
Is there a way I can set my AI to a single same font size? It always dresses them up in different fonts
I'm not sure I understand the question. There is a Font Display settings (style and size) for the system that you can set. But were you referring to in the AI app itself? If so, I don't see a setting there.
Been loving your reviews on the many eInk devices out there. I like how in-depth you go on them. I’d love to see your take on the iFlyTek AiNote Air 2 - it looks like an amazing device for reading and note-taking, specially for meetings. Have you seen it?
They reached out to me to do a review on two occasions but we couldn't come to terms, so it didn't happen. I might review it later in the year. We'll see.
I am definitely on Team Moss when it comes to not just the NeoReader UX but Boox's UX in general. imo they could use a complete top down refresh of a lot of stuff. the design language is just kind of dated. that said, I am frankly totally in love with my Note Max -- the performance combined with the display and screen feel is just incredibly compelling to me, and *when the keyboard case works correctly* (🙄) i find typing on it to be really rewarding. great review as always, Jeffrey -- thanks!
Have you experienced problem with lasso tool? When selecting and cutting several times continuously, it will hang.
I haven't noticed that, and I tried to replicate it with no success. But the device will sometimes hang on me and I just have to wait it out. Most of the time it's fine, but every once in a while I run into that.
I don’t understand, I have the Note Max and pinch to zoom works exactly like the Note Air 4C, Regal mode too, Neo Reader too. Are your settings different?
That's strange. What is your refresh setting? I usually go with the default settings. I may have changed one and forgotten about it, but I can't imagine what setting would cause that effect.
Another poster figured it out, it was the Drag to Refresh setting.
I’m glad you figured it out!
Do you think the 4.0 firmware will change anything?
it's already on 4.0, but it will definitely get more updates, probably soon.
Contrary to my expectation but i am not convinced that the 300ppi dark ghosty Note Max represents a worthwhile upgrade to my 207ppi dark ghosty Boox Max 3. I am inclined to sit this one out and wait for the next iteration. Btw i can vouch for the robustness of the Mobius screen, inadvertent pressure caused the bezel to crack slightly but the screen remained intact. I suspect that the new glass display may not be quite so forgiving. Thanks for your usual magnificent evaluation.
I’m thinking about replacing a Max Lumi. Thanks for helping me to stay my hand
@BanditZA I just think that the next iteration will be better, if I didn't already have a 13.3" screen I am not convinced that I could resist the impulse. Your Lumi is still pretty impressive, even more so than the max3
had a NA4C and returned it. This was my first e-ink device. I loved two things: 1. my eyes felt way better, 2, the writing experience was AMAZING. I hated 4 things: 1. quality control issues and quite difficult to repair. 2. I cannot trust a chinese company with notes I would take at work, sorry but i just cannot and the fact that the device calls home scares me. 3. The exported notes look nothing like the way they look on the device - starting with the colors ( yes, i understand e-ink doesn't have the fidelity of a traditional display) they should just leave them at the saturation, vibrance and contrast that i can see on the e-ink device, otherwise it;s just weird, i can get accustomed to using those dull colours but not with the difference between devices, just transform them to look sort of the same. 4. I wanted a device that has frontlight, has android, bsr and has SOME colours to play with in taking notes, don't really care about reading comic books and consuming color media, but the screen on the NA4C was just too dark, needed to crank up my frontlight too much ( hurts the eyes and consumes too much battery) - this is not their fault, i know that the e-ink color panel tech isn't where it should be right now, but it was still something I did not enjoy, back to my ipad - eyes hurt more but... yeah.
That speaks to the big problem folks have. The best way to know if a device is good for them is to get some hands on time before making a purchase, but those opportunities are rare. TH-cam videos have a good place in trying to rectify that, but there's a limit to what they can convey, and invariably there's a bit of leap of faith to make a purchase one hopes aligns with their preferences. That's why I recommend folks buy from a retailer who has a good return policy. Sounds like that was the case with you, which was fortuitus.
My Note Max zooms the same as your NA4C. Not sure why yours isn’t working correctly, but it’s not a difference between the devices.
Yes, we figured it out. I posted the issue which is around settings.
Hello Jeffrey. Have you been studying at Harvard? Because the pdf file you were demonstrating in the vid is from harvard edu website.
Oh my, no. Do you mean the color PDF example? I pulled that from on-line. I think it's called Lecture 17, or something like that. Actually, it's an interesting read and not that long.