Orchestration Tip: B-flat Clarinet vs. A Clarinet
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“What instrument do you play?”
“A clarinet”
“Oh cool, like bass or b flat?”
“Umm.. A clarinet.”
Foolproof would be to reply "The clarinet is tuned in A, you could also call it b double flat"
@@robfriedrich2822 Or "La"
Clarinetists are suposed to play bass clarinet, A clarinet, Bb clarinet and Eb clarinets, because they have the same fingerings
I'm dead hahaha
I'm so very late to this, but I feel like I should point out that the A Clarinet is an orchestral instrument almost exclusively. Super complex jazz, band and popular music in all sorts of keys is always executed beautifully on Bb.
I appreciate the comment - of course, in the context of this channel, to a degree it goes without saying that the A is pretty much exclusively a concert instrument.
What about C clarinet though? Most popular musics is in that key so it shouldn’t be too hard to transpose to A like you already do for B flat.
@@kishascape There are just as many pieces in C as there are any other key
I took one orchestration class in college. It was so badly structured that we only learned about strings, flutes and oboes.
For my final I decided to orchestrate a piece in E major. I only knew "more sharps= A clarinet" so I wrote an A part. Professor (she was a sub, wasn't supposed to be teaching this class) tells me to change it to Bb. I didn't want to but I did anyways.
Well of course, the school orchestra plays our orchestrations and the conductor says "You should've used A clarinet" ...
Silviola824 yes, your orchestration professor was a bumbling fool.
Really, the poor clarinetist would be in F# on a Bb but in G on an A clarinet.
lol hear this, my geography teacher claimed the earth spins from East to West, and when I tried to correct her, my class backed her up because they thought I'm trolling. it doesn't matter how your teachers messed up, it only matters what you can do now
@@djfull4442 Neil DeGrass Tyson would point out every time he was on the Daily Show (back when it was Jon Stewart) that the globe in their title sequence was spinning the wrong way. Jon said he would fix it, but a year later when Tyson came back, it was still the same, and Jon apologized that he was shocked at how difficult and expensive it turned out to be to fix. He was saying basically somehow the whole sequence would almost have to be produced all over as the animation of the globe was so interwoven with the sequence. So maybe your geography teacher was a big fan but missed those NDTyson episodes.
@@djfull4442 man that’s crazy. Did you try to explain that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west? And therefore we are moving in the opposite direction because the sun is in reality stationary?
As a clarinetist, i would say everything you said is correct. Sharp keys are better for A, and flats are better for Bb.
However, it doesn’t necessarily mean the clarinet can’t play in every key equally! It just makes it easier for us to play since some keys just don’t sit well in certain registers, like Db/C# major around the throat tones.
Never said you couldn't. :) Just trying to make life easier for you.
OrchestrationOnline I know you didn’t say that!
I was just remarking that like other instrumentalist, we do make an effort to make the “bad keys” sound effortless.
@@OrchestrationOnline we highly appreciate that! 😀
From another clarinetist i really gotta agree, IF a composer wants the sound of an A-Clarinet (and it really will sound different no matter the player.) then they should use it. If you dont know/care then this video works great
I have always thought the A clarinet has a nicer timbre. I can't explain why. It's just a feeling. My favorite is the alto clarinet though, but it is almost never used in classical music so I don't know if it is a good idea to demand one in my score. However, if no alto clarinet is available most passages should be perfectly playable on a bass clarinet, I think.
Of course there's always the consideration of range - if your passage dips down to the low (concert) c-sharp. Although I have played on a b-flat model that featured an extension to enable that note - but I just couldn't get used to the fingering.
I was once handed an A clarinet part by an arranger (composer then in Master's degree studies) for a piece in concert C minor, which put it in Eb minor! I asked him why he chose A clarinet, and he said that it was because he had been taught it was the more "classical" instrument. When I explained that it would be vastly easier to play on the Bb clarinet, as that would put it in D minor, he was very surprised!
There's also an orchestra song that is more suitable for the A clarinet but written for the Bb clarinet. (It also has the concert E major part which is F# major for the Bb clarinet)
Thank you for this informative and clear video! Can’t wait for the book!
I just placed my order on the new book! Looking forward to thoroughly read it, Thomas. Thank you for your work and contribution to the music world! Greetings from Peru.
Straight forward, clear advice. Thank you for confirming my own experiences.
I am a clarinet and other woodwind player (originally clarinet) and now I compose and arrange as well. There are a number of comments about players transposing "on the fly". That is great and "hats off" to those who can accomplish that, but in my experience the majority of community players are not able to. As a composer or orchestrator, only a few will have their work played by professional orchestras and It is up to the rest of us to make our music accessible to as many people as possible, whether that is supplying both A and Bb clarinet parts in many cases, or writing in keys that are most accessible to the most players. Many school or community orchestras (and certainly band) will just avoid music with extended technical passages in 5 or 6 flats or sharps.
But do amateur musicians have clarinets in A? I thought those are expensive for amateurs.
@@ruanpingshan an "amateur" is anyone who does not make their living playing the instrument. Many amateurs are extremely good players and may have "professional" model instruments, both Bb and A. There are many more amateur players than actual professional players. Amateur players may play in fine community orchestras and may not aspire to ever become a professional player. Yes professional model clarinets are expensive, but not as much as say bassoons, or race cars... Good music making is not just for the select few that get to the level of making their living at it, it is for any of us willing to try.
Excellent video and examples!
I once came across Suk's Scherzo Fantastique and there was an opening excerpt that got my attention: he had scored two different clarinet staffs, one for Bb (B in German notation) and A. What he did, though, was to double the A clarinet down an octave (comparing to the Bb clarinet). That was an amazing orchestral maneuver Josef Sul did!
well that's one question i've asked myself multiple times but never bothered reading up on that got solved :) thanks, as always
Definitly will buy that book!
Thanks for explaining the differences I've only played the B Clarinet.
Thank you Thomas
Excellent video!!!
I read your 100 orchestration tips book several times over the past year and it has definitely helped, especially when it comes to using the brass. Before, I tended to reserve the brass for those forte punches, whereas now I'm more comfortable using the brass at quieter dynamics. I noticed you mentioned something in the book that actually kind of surprised me when it comes to woodwind instruments. You mentioned the almost limitless sustain on the oboe and how the flute has the worst when it comes to length of possible sustain. From researching about the woodwinds, I found several sources that say this:
Only about 30% of the air blown into the oboe goes into actually producing the note.
And just from my instinct, I have been putting the woodwinds in this order when it comes to long sustain:
1) Tie between Flute and Clarinet, Flute takes in less air, only about 50% of the breath at best, but without a reed, more of that air goes into the note production itself(I myself am learning how to play the flute and can sustain 3 quarter notes worth at 60 BPM before I take another breath, but I know that a professional flutist can sustain for much longer than that)
2) Bassoon, More air is needed, but still, quite a long sustain is possible
3) Oboe, I was more likely to write a series of half notes than a whole note tied to another whole note in my oboe section before reading your book
And after reading your book, it's like you turned my instinct on it's head. Why is it that the oboe can sustain the note for so much longer than the flute if the percentage of air that goes into note production for the oboe is 30% vs the flute's 50%? That seems counterintuitive.
As oboist (who switched from clarinet to oboe in grade 11, who also played around with a flute for fun in high school) I can answer this:
It's not that ~only 30%~ of the air blown enters the instrument, it's that oboists only need to use 30% of the air in their lungs (though I disagree with this percentage).
Whereas with flutes, the flutist will use up 100% of the air in their lungs, but only 50% will actually go into the instrument.
So, on oboe, 100% of the air blown will enter the oboe, but will only use 30% of their lung capacity.
The only way that, on oboe, only 30% of the air blown will enter the instrument is if the oboist has a leaky embouchure (which is what any reed player DOESN'T want).
Take a look at the size of the hole of an oboe reed. Now imagine you have a full tank of water, and even with high pressure, it'll still take a long time to expel all that water through that tiny opening. This is how 'stale-air' comes into play. Even though air goes into the instrument, the tank is still relatively filled, and the air in the tank converts to carbon-dioxide, which is why we oboists need to exhale after a long phrase before we can take another breath.
High-level bassoonists also will end up dealing with stale-air once their breathing is fully developed.
Also, for sustain, flute and clarinet SHOULD NOT be tied. Clarinet will have more sustain than flute; I speak from experience. Like with oboe, 100% of the air blown on a reed instrument should enter the instrument. Air should NOT be escaping from the player's embouchure. The difference between oboe and clarinet in terms of air usage is that a clarinet player can use up all 100% of the air in their lungs.
So if we're ordering the sustain of the higher winds, from shortest to longest, it'll be: flute - clarinet - oboe.
The reason why reed instruments have longer sustain than flutes is that reed players are blowing their air into a small opening, their embouchure fully sealed preventing air from escaping. Whereas flutes' air isn't sealed; it's blown across an opening, not into an opening.
This was a very good video! I will say that if you are writing something you hope to put in front of smaller orchestras like community groups and town/gowns, if your piece requires an A clarinet your piece may get less play time. If the organization and the clarinetist does not have an A clarinet (and this is very common in non-professional groups) they will need to rent one, and if they are deciding between your work and another that requires no special instruments, they will not program your work.
I was with a community orchestra doing Peter And The Wolf which requires an A (although it's easily playable on a Bb, the part goes all the way down to the A's low E so that's not an option) and they had to rent the horn (well they got a sponsor to pay for it) - but that's Peter And The Wolf, and you are not writing that!
I will probably never write an A clarinet part simply because the type of music I like to write isn't going to make a huge difference technique-wise, and as I said too few clarinetists have access to one (outside of some college and most/all professional groups of course). I'd estimate that for each special instrument you want that is not part of the standard fare, you'll get half the performances.
It is a wonderful video. All composers and conductors must learn it forever!!! (I'm principal clarinet opera theatre in small russian city)))
So great to hear from you, Grigory! Thanks so much for your kind words. That is all I could ever hope for from a professional.
Excellent!
Going down the Daphnis et Chloe rabbit hole is the reason I even found this video! Pretty cool to hear it show up at around 4:30
OrchestrationOnline Clarinets come in so many keys that the C Clarinet could be used for tonal enhancement.
thank you!!
Thanks!
Musicians and composers in the past experimented with various clarinets and loved Bb version, because of its beautiful, haunting and lyrical tone. But because the compositions may be written in any key, and some of which are taxing for Bb clarinets (in terms of fingering), they opted for a clarinet only one semitone down, A, to keep the very similar lyrical quality of the tone, but with easier fingering for some music keys. Bb and A clarinets exist for the preservation of a particular tone quality.
That's pretty much what the video says.
@@OrchestrationOnline Nope, you didn't say that. The basic idea was to preserve the *quality of tone of the Bb clarinet*, because that is what composers loved. And that is why the shift was only a semitone to A. You could play easier with a C clarinet, it can play literally anything, but its voice is totally different.
@@zvonimirtosic6171 You didn't mention the C clarinet in your first comment. Your comment "... because the compositions may be written in any key, and some of which are taxing for Bb clarinets (in terms of fingering), they opted for a clarinet only one semitone down, A..." is the whole point of the video. The reason for the lower clarinets vs. C clarinet is covered in other tips from my two books.
@@OrchestrationOnline I mentioned the *quality of tone* that Bb clarinet provided. It was so good, that composers loved it to bits, and when musicians complained it's awkward to play in certain keys, the A was developed because it is tonally closest to Bb. All other clarinets, G, D, F, C, etc, went quickly out of fashion (with rare resurrections, say, C by Mendhellson, and low-G in well-developed folk music, etc) because the Bb clarinet has an amazing tone.
Nice vid!
I belong to a Pit Musicians group on facebook and have seen people ask to borrow A Clarinets because some shows require them. Not sure what the shows are if they could be transposed easily or not. The struggle can be real for the musical theater doubler though.
In Turkey we use G(Sol) because of microtonal useage of turkish music.
I played b-flat Clarinet, e-flat Alto Clarinet and doubled the b-flat Bass Clarinet in High School in the 1970s. Thank you the *most cogent explanation of why b-flat and a Clarinets exist*. As an amateur player it never made sense why both, though 10 years playing and reading in b-flat threw-off my internal pitch making playing keyboards "interesting". The notes in my head and the keys never were I thought they were. Now later in life I'm re-exploring Music Theory and Keyboard Practice.
Thanks so much for your kind comments, and for sharing your perspective. Both are much appreciated.
Wonderfulness
Nice
I had to use an A clarinet for Schubert’s unfinished symphony because the fingering was murder on my B flat. Having to go from E flat to C on your right hand was near impossible to do smoothly.
Yup. In a B minor symphony with an E major Andante movement, I'd score for A clarinet just as Schubert does.
Does the same argument applies to choice of trumpet, (although they also bring in the issue range)?
Hi Richard! I'll have an entire tip about this in the book. There are some similar issues of tuning, but range is more critical than with the choice between clarinets.
My experience with trumpeters is that they don't deal with these questions in at all the same was as clarinetists do. Example: I once wrote an Eb trumpet part, thinking that it was better suited to the key signature and range. But the player said he'd rather use his C trumpet and transpose! Brass players transpose so often that they tend to take it in stride.
@@occcozHigher key trumpets definitely make it easier to play in the upper register. The difference between having to play a high C on a D trumpet versus a high E on a Bb trumpet is huge.
I'm sure Thomas will have an excellent answer in the book, but as someone who plays both trumpet and clarinet I thought I'd answer too.
Clarinet has some of the fussiest fingerings of all instruments. That's because it only has half of the overtones available, so it needs to utilize 19 distinct fingerings to bridge the first and second registers together, rather than only 12 on all other woodwinds (and 7 on a brass instrument). In effect, on clarinet you end up using the low extension pinkie keys and the high extension index finger keys all the time, rather than only for the extreme ranges. So fingering difficulty is tied to key much more than on any other instrument.
For an advanced trumpet player, the key really shouldn't matter from a fingering perspective. For valved brass instruments, the fingerings are never the hardest part of the music. There are some tuning differences, but they're not really anything to worry about. Higher pitched trumpets make playing higher notes easier. It doesn't give you range for free -- you don't just do the same thing on a C trumpet as with a Bb trumpet and get a note a step higher -- but it does help the notes speak more easily and securely. I would also say that the difference in tone between a C and Bb trumpet is more pronounced than between a Bb and A clarinet, mostly because it's twice the difference, but as with clarinet a good player can adjust. Transposing both ways to avoid bringing a second trumpet is common.
I don't know how widespread this actually is but: I learned from a clarinet colleague that professional clarinet players, when shopping for an 'A' clarinet, will try to find an 'A' clarinet that sounds most alike to their 'Bb' clarinet. Even he believes that the 'Bb' vs 'A' debate is akin to the blind taste test.
Who was the clarenetist from SF?
Your stubble means trouble~!
So spot on that I think Thomas Goss must be a clarinetist.
Aw you're too kind! My dad was a clarinetist - but I learned all about clarinet playing from many hours of working with players and scoring for clarinet, not to mention reading countless scores, fingering diagrams, and message board complaints. ;)
OrchestrationOnline
Is the C or Eb clarinet involved in this?
I’m writing a piece in g minor that modulates to D Major. Should I have the Bb clarinet players switch to A clarinets in the middle of the piece or not?
I recommend that the clarinetist plays on the A entirely
It’s probably too late but I would say just have them stay on B flat for the whole thing. E major isn’t too hard of a key for Bb Clarinet. I don’t play clarinet but I play euphonium in band where Bb clarinet is Key, and all of the clarinetists are perfectly competent in E major
What clarinet would you say to use if you're modulating, say, from A minor to E major (in a sonata)? It does pass through B major, but I just want to know a bit.
That would be A clarinet - especially if you spend a lot of time in E during the movement. If, however, there are a lot of passages also in flat keys, then Bb clarinet is the ticket.
@@OrchestrationOnline Hey, thanks for the advice! I appreciate it!
BTW, the exposition is kinda constantly modulating, but for the most part the first subjects are in flat keys, the end of the transition is in B major, and the second subject is mostly stable in E major.
I saw that you have a mbouzouki at the back. Do you play the mbouzouki?
It is strung in the tuning of a cello and has the scale of a cello, so for all intents and purposes it is a mandocello, and I play it and refer to it thus.
It is all works only for orchestral clarinet, in solo practice it doesn't matter how many sharps/flats in music
Yes, This is an "orchestration tip" from Orchestration Online, where the focus is on orchestral music and how to score it.
All the same, any soloist playing a concerto in a sharp key from the repertoire, like especially the Mozart, would be using an A clarinet of one type or another (like in the case of Mozart, and basset-clarinet in A).
@@OrchestrationOnline i just said about flats and sharps) it's really not important for professional clarinetists, but only sound matter, because there is a big difference between a clarinet and bb clarinet and of course bassethorn or alto clarinet
@@OrchestrationOnline only sound is a reason, why clarinetists switch from b to a, or bass clarinet, or alto
@@OrchestrationOnline nobody wants to hurt your opinion, i am just looking on it as a clarinetist, nothing more) sorry for my bad English)
2:53 If a clarinettist is comfortable playing a part notated in Eb or Ab on a Bb clarinet (sounding Db or Gb), why wouldn't they be comfortable playing the same part on an A (sounding C or F)? You say the A is "home to only 4 or 5 keys" but you show 6.
Eb on a Bb clarinet is the key of E major with four sharps on an A clarinet, not C. Ab on a Bb clarinet is the key of A on an A clarinet, not the key of F. There are four keys that are exclusive to A in the chart, and the "or 5" refers to OPTIONS of using the shared keys, which are not necessarily "home" - right? G might be a "home" key in sonata allegro writing, trending clockwise on the circle of 5ths - or it might be a preferred home for the Bb clarinet without such modulatory preconceptions. The key word here is "home."
If Bb can sound as well, as a clarinet in A , why did Mozart choose the basset clarinet for his concerto, the slightly extended range of the A clarinet to low C Sharp (D flat) . Does this allow greater ease to finger arpeggio chord inversions (for jazz improvisation , orchestral compositions in Sharp though not Flat keys ) I‘m an amateur, I‘m discussing the “sound “and desirability for playing lower toned root chords.
Hi Edward! The choice of an instrument in A has nothing to do with key preference - it is because Mozart composed his concerto for a specific clarinetist who was a specialist in basset clarinet. Mozart composed something that fit his instrument.
@@OrchestrationOnline A. Stadler was more or less the only one with a basset. So much it was forgotten and "corrected" until the mid 1900ths
What is the intro song? It’s so familiar
Julian Westerlund either Brahms 1 or 3
Gauge_ it’s 3 then, thanks
Question: why do transposing instruments, well, transpose?
Why do Bb clarinet players have to think of Bb as C? Note names are pretty much arbitrary, so why is this transposing idea necessary?
Instrument timbre and universality of fingering, pure and simple. You might think "Well, why didn't they just build all clarinets in C?" But then you hear how shallow the smaller C clarinet sounds compared to the larger, much richer, more complex B-flat and A clarinets. So the same fingering system for the C clarinet that results in an F major chalumeau scale below and a C major clarino scale above, reads the same for these larger, lower instruments, but sounds down a whole step and a minor 3rd, respectively. Then you realise that for wind players, the staff isn't some universal reference of pitch like it is for pianists - rather, it's a very efficient system for mapping out fingerings. The same fingering system applies to all models - in the clarinet's case, the little E-flat, the C, the standard Bb and A, the alto clarinet and basset horn, the bass clarinet, and the deeper contra models in E-flat and B-flat - and other less common models. So a player can pick up any of these instruments that centre around different higher or lower ranges, and use the same fingerings.
@@OrchestrationOnline Ohh, I see. Thank you so much!
If I'd seen this 4 years ago I could have saved you 8 minutes: Use Bb unless you've asked a clarinetist.
The point is, I don't need to ask a clarinetist. After scoring many hours of orchestral music, I make the right decision based more or less on the criteria in the video. Wouldn't you rather have the right kind of instrument requested in the hundreds of new scores you might have to play over the next few years? Well, perhaps if more people watch this, then you'll get the right one. No need to be peremptory,. Videos like this do you a favour if you're a pro player.
Are clarinets in C and B still used?
Clarinet is C is still used for period performances and occasionally in a newer work for its lighter tone. There is no clarinet in B as we understand it in the English language - these parts are actually in B-flat, but Central European (especially German) publishers call B-flat "B" (and they call English language B by the letter "H"). Go over to my macProVideo Orchestration 104 course and watch a few free previews on the clarinets for more info.
@@OrchestrationOnline Thanks! I actually meant B as in B natural because I've seen some older scores that have clarinets in that key.
@Simon Libricky There are two B-natural clarinets in Idomeneo. It does exist!
@@stevemsteven6103 Clarinet in B natural does not exist any more. Might have been around for a very short period at the start of classical period, but non extant since. In a modern performance most players would transpose onto the A, as it would be the same transposition as reading a C part onto the Bb.
For easier fingering and articulation on harder keys. Who says A clarinet has a darker sound? First time I heard this.
Also range.....for example the clarinet solo in Offenbach's orpheus in the underworld overture, the Bb clarinet can't reach the lowest note in that cadenza, I think it was concert Db4 or C4
but it doesn't really matter, I've suffered through Tchaikovsky Symphony No.5 and Beethoven Symphony No.9 with Bb Cl and transposed score, with no major issue,
實用！
謝謝！
@@OrchestrationOnline Wow you speak Chinese? Wowwwwwwwwwwww
@@divisix024 I speak Google translate... 😀😀😀
@@OrchestrationOnline Ohhhhh I thought you actually speak Chinese
Honestly, I see no need for the "A" clarinet at all. Except, maybe, for very, VERY specific situations.
With the current keywork and technology, it's pretty antiquated.
I've always just transposed "A" clarinet parts by sight on my "Bb" and my conductors never knew the difference.
Then you are just an awesome musician, Leomerya12! But probably most concert players will prefer to use the A from a matched pair of clarinets, especially if they're taking on the Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
@@OrchestrationOnline , that's kind of you to say. Honestly, the main reason I initially did it was because of finances. I was lucky enough to have ONE clarinet, let alone TWO. It made me a better player in the longrun. But I understand your point!
Sound, thats the need. You could play all Eb parts on your Bb aswell, but with shrill sound.
Another advice for compossers: Poor clarinetists only play the Bb clarient. So, be carefull with orchestration when you write for us (we hate many sharps on the score).
No matter how competent the clarinetist, you cant make a Bb sound like an A. If you know that you want a certain clarinet the WRITE FOR THAT. We can play fast in all keys, its really no issue. IF you dont know what clarinet you want THEN write the most ergonomic, with some flats and hopefully no/few sharps
You haven't heard Peter Josheff. He can play practically anything. Same for Andrew Uren. You're speaking from the viewpoint of a clarinet specialist, and I welcome the perspective - but the point is that the composer in my story had a superficial understanding of the character of the clarinet, and the capabilities of players in expression. Otherwise nothing you've written really contradicts the point of the tip.
Other ww are fine with just one key. Let's kill the abomination of an A clarinet once and for all. Definitely for any new compositions or arrangements.
No sense talking to me about that - take it up with about 10,000 clarinetists out there and see what kind of traction you get.
@@OrchestrationOnline my comments here are no more talking to you than your videos are talking to me personally. Strange of you not to realise it, I'm just expressing my opinion
@@AndreyRubtsovRU No more so than me making an observation of a comment. Right back atcha. 🙂 But I'm sure that two pros like us have better things to do.
A Clarinet because orchestra is trash
But whatever good reason you have to write in A, in 99% of all cases the clarinet player will just play it on the Bb-Clarinet, transposing on the fly.
Rest assured that when I see the need to score for A clarinet in a concert music situation, the player will use their A - in many many scores.
We do this with C clarinet parts. Nobody owns those nor do we want to play on one. A parts we will play on A 99% of the time. It's just part of the deal.
No. That happens in student or amateur orchestras with clarinettists who don’t have access to an A. If you have an A clarinet, and the piece is for A clarinet, you’ll use it.
Lies