@@TheMock5000 True but they costs 2 points (space battles are usually limited to 20 total) and once you unlock Victory Cruisers they cost 3 points. You get a big tough ship and a bunch of TIE fighters and a few bombers for free with those. That package deal is hard to beat; more versatile IMO.
Yes I can confirm; had they invested in TIE Defenders instead of Death Stars they would have dominated. Source: the PC classic TIE Fighter where I commit starfighter genocide and destroy corvettes with them.
Remember when Wedge heard Rogue Squadron had to take out a Lancer Frigate and he was more nervous about that single engagement than he was about either Death Star?
Specifically, when Rouge Squadron along with three whole squadrons of Y-wings had one (1) Lancer-class and one (1) Carrack-class blocking their escape vector.
Ngl, it's pretty badass the New Republic used the Lancer and other imperial material to defeat the Yuuzhan Vong. Those invaders made rebels and imperials understand they were all in the end brothers that killed each other for decades
The answer for the empire was to modify the ISD by shedding some of the lighter turbolasers and replacing them with PDCs, albiet spread around the hull and also concentrated in crucial areas. Imagine an ISD with a hundred quad laser cannons.
I can only imagine the rude awaking pilots would have when an ISD starts to create a literal cloud of fire as PDC open up on snub fighters attempting the usual trench run
What I don't get is why they didn't simply incorporate more point defense around critical areas like the superstructure, hanger bays or reactor bulbs on Star Destroyers? I can't imagine a battery of quad cannons being such a significant power drain to cause any issues for the main reactor. On that note, why not swap out some of the rear facing turbo lasers on vessels like the Dreadnought to add anti starfighter screening to their role? Imperial space battles predominantly engaged capitol ships from a forward oriented position, so I can't imagine all of the rear turbo lasers doing much to contribute to the cause while deployed with a fleet. The Lancer isn't incredibly faster than a Dreadnought anyway, so repositioning mid battle to face a new wave of fighters isn't tactically sound. Just bolster and adapt what you've already got instead of wasting funds and resources on something so heavily specialized
@@Castor586 they're created to be able to be destroyed by fighters. If they destroyed fighters easily well then we wouldn't have much of a movie. It's a fictional universe. Don't try to rationalize things designed to serve an irrational purpose.
The Lancer being slower than an ISD is an example of sourcebook shenanigans. In the first x-wing book it’s described as being able to outrun Y-Wings which are sourced at a speed of 80 megalights. The lancer is described in sourcebooks as having a speed of 20 megalights. The Lancer should have a speed of over 80 megalights which makes it faster than the ISD which is sourced as having a speed of 60.
It's a shame that dedicated ships aren't used on the scale they need to be used at, and when they are used, they often get used for the opposite of what they were intended for. It was the same thing with the Venator. It wasn't used as the dedicated carrier it was, but instead as a battleship, which it wasn't meant for. Same thing with this ship. Under-used or miss-used
I played the SW-Strategy-Game _Rebellion_ once as the Empire and I built well over a hundred of these things. The Rebels' starfighters constantly had a hard time.
*Fun fact:* The last Lancer ship was used was during the Dark Nest Crisis by Raynar Thul, a student of Luke who during the Yuuzhan Vong wars was lost in the Unknown Regions and became Lord of the Killiks
14:23 For example, Raith Sienar was inspired by ETA-2 and Alpha-3 to create the TIE line. Maybe it's with a companies that copies Smartphone copies one another.
Only criticism I have, please personally refrain from the whole "they have to many crew, that's bad" trope. The United States Navy is regretting the reduction of crew via automation. Less crew equals longer watches. Longer watches leads to sleep deprivation. Sleep deprivation leads to making very bad mistakes, slow responses & reactions. You also have to take into account battle damage. Some crew will always become casualties, who will pick up the slack if you have to few crew? There's a reason why IRL warships have two different specs for crew compliments. A lower number for peace time, and a higher number for war time.
Frankly you are wrong. As a Marine Corps veteran, you will NEVER have so few personnel that night watch requires the same person on duty every night. You stand guard then you get an equal amount of time off. A 12 hour watch duty means 12 hours off after that, a 24 hour watch means you get a full day off after. The Marine Corps when I left it 5 years ago had around 150,000 active duty personnel. Which is small compared to the crews of most Star Wars ships, this one has a crew only 185 times smaller than our entire combined active forces. Automation has been a thing since the 80s. I worked on Vietnam era choppers (tech from 50 years ago) with technology that was far more advanced than the phone or TV you watched this on. Simple fact is our technology is hundreds of years behind needing humans to run it. And there's a massive technological stagnation in Star Wars. You're also wrong about crew compliments on Naval ships. It depends on their territory not if there's a time of war. The United States has been at war since 1990 basically. I served on understaffed and overstaffed boats and it was strictly because of the threat levels of the waters we went through. There's so many places to hide on a ship sleep deprivation isn't really a thing, you can easily escape to take an hour or longer nap. Then there's the fact naval forces haven't fought an actual battle since the end of World War 2, which was 80 years ago.
The Tarken doctrine really screwed the empire, this ship would have made rebels unable to act with hit and runs as effectively, especially when beside a proper capital ship
The Tarkin doctrine was used too early in the Galactic Empire's Reign. It should have been used far later when they actually did have a physical presence in every system outside of the Unknown Regions and had hundreds of thousands of ships. Tarkin jumped the gun WAAAAAY too early.
@@sonofeyeabovealleffoff5462 I'd argue that even still, it should never have been implemented, the venator was more than capable in my opinion, and even if the ISD had to be implemented, the venator could easily fly aside it
The Lancers put the fear of Force in Rebel pilots. But they were also very, very weak even to fighters. Rogue Squadron was able to mission kill one with twenty two torpedos which left one a burning hulk. That's not a huge amount of firepower to take out a ship of it's size. And (at least initially) the guns had massive maintenance issues - the Imperial sourcebook saidt hat on any given day maybe half the guns would be offline. When Corran Horn is buzzing one he's sending back guncam footage to the other Rogues to spot towers that were offlined. Technical problems could be solved but the frigate did have some major issues beyond just tactical utilization. Kilogram for kilogram, the Raider class frigate was a much better anti-starfighter platform that could perform more missions.
well for the docking port ontop of the bridge: kinda makes sense if we assume that many medium to large ships come with multiple ports including some on the underside. would also allow the ship to dock with those tie fighter recovery ships. and now live happy with the mental image of a gozanti class carrier with two lancer class frigates stuck to it.
13:02 because of the unlimited computational power and vast amounts of energy available, it would be possible to make any ship completely OP. (For example: look at Luthen Rael’s ship in Andor, with a couple of ion torpedoes and photon torpedos Luthen probably could have taken out that Cantwell-class). But the biggest limitation is that governments, factions, and individuals don’t have a lot of credits to buy these OP ships.
It’s a shame that a ship as niche yet capable as this existed but the empire just said “The rebels keep destroying our star destroyers and death stars! What do we do?” and the answer is “Make more!”
Well the Lancer-class was based on basic design of the Carrack-class light cruiser and the Dreadnaught-class heavy cruiser, both were old designs by the time of The Empire as the Dreadnaught-class was first seen in use 80 years before Clone Wars. All three ships and a number of other ships were all build based on classic Mandalorian Kandosii-type Dreadnaught which dated back all the way to the Mandalorian Wars.
Updated, Smaller, Modern Versions. The Carrack is truly terrifying when you realize its as fast as Star Fighters and can be crewed by Two People...with insane firepower for it's size. Gotta love the Carrack.
I always thought in Rebels that Thrawn would have had ships like this in his fleet and was surprised that he didn't have any with him, as of all the imperials there's him and Vader who are smart enough to both recognise the threat of fighters and the utility of anti-starfighter capability. Either way I would have thought that he would have had them while engaging the rebels at least a couple to protect his stern if nothing else.
1:10 there actually is a good justification for this. Space gas and dust. The ships navigation shields can only take so much before they fail and if you are going fast enough you get a free turbolaser bombardment across the front of your ship.
I think that while the Lancer was at the job it was built for, enough to scare Rogue Squadron pilots like Wedge Antillies and Corran Horn. I don't think it wasn't needed. The Carrack class already existed. It was tougher, more capable, and in an Anti-Starfighter configuration it had plenty of Light Laser canons, as much as the Lancer. Plus a good complement of Turbolasers and tractor beams for more versatility. More focus on issuing Carrack Light cruisers out to protect fleets and convoys would of made a massive difference. Since even the Corellian Corvette, or Nebulon-B would have to take pause when dealing with them.
The only real 'problem' I have with this ship is that you want your escorts to be *faster* than the things they're escorting, so they can maneuver around them more easily, and quickly change position to respond to threats. So, it could have used a bit of a beefed up engine. Of course, it can still work fine, it's just less convenient, and if one of the frigates gets disabled it'll take others more time to move up and take its place. Rather than redesigning to fix that though, if they just added some Gozanti-esq clamps along the underside, a ship that long could have carried at least a couple squadrons of TIEs externally. Then it wouldn't even need to be that fast.
The Lancer being slower than an ISD is an example of sourcebook shenanigans. In the first x-wing book it’s described as being able to outrun Y-Wings which are sourced at a speed of 80 megalights. The lancer is described in sourcebooks as having a speed of 20 megalights. The Lancer should have a speed of over 80 megalights which makes it faster than the ISD which is sourced as having a speed of 60.
Heck it was probably 'speed 7' or speed 8, in the stats? Which is likely not actually equal to 70 or 80 MGLT, anyway. As the X-Wing was listed with speed 8, originally... 8 may = 100 MGLT, truly. With 6 being 75, and 7 being 87, and so on...@@zzzxxc1
Sir, the rebels are using a lot of quick hit and run tactics with starfighters. We need laser canons to counter. Should we install them along our massive pizza slice ships with pleny of available hull space? No, build multiple new ships, extremely expensive, just for laser canons so our pizza slice ships can stick with the big pew pews. Excellent choice sir. Shall they also be pizza slice shape? Make them giant exclamation marks! Of course sir! *Thrawn shaking his head* I'm surrounded by...wait, exclamation marks you say?
To be fair, this ship breaks the entire 'rules' of combat in star wars. If lancers were commonplace then the WW2 knock off dogfights between starfighters would end. Starfighters and bombers would be impossible altogether as an effective component in fleet engagements and combat would inevitably resemble something close to hard Sci Fi like the Expanse with much longer range duels between ships. That's fine in-universe but it would destroy the aesthetic of star wars which fans would ultimately hate.
I imagine top Speed is more recommended top speed, because it will take considerable energy to stop a star destroyer from destroying a planet because they were going too fast
All three ships have that feel of "Our engineers came up with these plans for ships that we need built, now who will make the lowest bid to manufacture each of them for us?"
1:12 We can chalk this up to the same stuff in Star Wars space that makes starfighter battles in Star Wars look like WWII dogfights (like they’re maneuvering in an atmosphere).
Space isnt a perfect vacuum, and i believe in some source materials the Starwars galaxy has something called the Ether which is why their starfighters and ships move the way they do.
I often view speed limits in space as strong suggestions or regulations, meant to ensure a minimal amount of maneuverability and reasonable stopping time. It is especially viable for Star Wars as ships seem to generally just hang in space thanks to repulsors, rather than actually orbiting planets and moons.
Wayyy back in the day of Star Wars: Rebellion game time, I used Lancers to great effect in my Imperial forces. They were tougher than a bunch of fighters, needed less time to recover to full strength and fit well in a capital ship fleet. I loved these things, and I agree whole-heartedly they should have been used over Ties in handling the Rebels. Fortunately the "actual" Empire wasn't as clever as us.
14:42 It'd also be a massive pain to ID properly from visuals alone, if you're far enough away you probably can't tell what's what so the fleet numbers would be so muddled.
Why didn't they put those very effective point-defense quad laser canons on the capital ships? Or put miniaturized versions of the planetary shields like in Rogue One in vulnerable areas that can keep the nimble fighters from exploiting the trenches.
I still think they should have made this ship faster and change just a couple weapon systems to deal with something bigger then a fighter. over all this ship is nasty and its weapons will take out a carillion corvette. though admiral thrawn would happily have as many of these ships and pair them up with something better. in the Xwing novels with wraith squadron they had to deal with a lancer. and how much the pilots dread facing such a star ship. how they took such down was very good and only put one fighter at risk to get a target lock and fire a lot of missiles to take such down.
Differing top speeds in vacuum still makes sense, there isn't any resistance so the ship with the more powerful engine output would logically move faster, otherwise I chock maximum speeds up to inertial compensators that could logically be in use as to give the in-universe ships the best chance of obtaining the engine's maximum possible speed regardless of things like higher gravity that may appear on some worlds
Is there any character video coming up? I hope it's legends focused! I love the Jango and Boba Fett series and I hope there will be a Darth Vader, Revan, Sidious series.
The Imps had other quite decent screening ships, like Tartan, Raider, CR92a, Carrack, and Enforcer. The Tartan is perhaps the best. Its the same length as the Lancer, and had a similar armament of 20 single/double laser cannons. While less durable, it was very fast and very menuverable. This allows the tartan to both keep up with the fleet and match enemy starfighter movements, all the while being able to quickly disengage. The lancer is severely limited by its slow speed. The CR92a is another great option. It was tougher and more durable than almost all rebel CR90 varients, having 8 modular emplacements (quad lasers, or double TL) plus a powerful proton torpedoe. launcher. All this while being pretty cheap The Raider is perhaps the second best in the Imp fleet. Mounting 6 accurate double lasers, anti starfighter concussion missles, and 4 double TL. This ship had a strong hull, great sheilding, and decent menuverability. The Carrack, mounting the 20 Lasers rather than thr 20 ion cannons is another great option. While it was 100 meters longer than the tartan or lancer, it mounted practically the same armament plus 10 HTL. This allows it to easily stand against enemy corvettes and frigates whilst screening for the fleet. Not to mention, the carrack was incredibly durable and fast. Vindicators and the subsequent Enforcers had great anti starfighter defenses, and if kept close to fleet csrriers or battlecrusiers, could effectively screening off incoming bombers or starfighters. The Vindicator especially was a decent light battleship and could protect the rear flank of larger ships or act independent. It is an underrated ship imo.
The Lancer being slower than an ISD is an example of sourcebook shenanigans. In the first x-wing book it’s described as being able to outrun Y-Wings which are sourced at a speed of 80 megalights. The lancer is described in sourcebooks as having a speed of 20 megalights. The Lancer should have a speed of over 80 megalights which makes it faster than the ISD which is sourced as having a speed of 60.
@zzzxxc1 yeah I know that, and I've heard it before. But I was just going along with the popular vote. Many say it's slow, so to counter that, I provide different capable ships Source book Lancer, as it should be, is quite a great ship. But slow Lancer is kind of mediocre. Speed and menuverable makes all the difference for a Screening vessel imo
God, everytime yall bring up the cost in these breakdowns, it makes me realize the actual value worth of a credit is the most inconsistent thing in Star Wars lore.
hmm maybe the lancer could have benefitted from some corellian corvette style heavier laser cannons. Like it makes it less good at its job, but given the average imp didnt use it right it would have helped it be a bit more versatile against medium size ships too when theyre used defensively. An arquitens with a lancer would be a stout pair though lacking fighters of their own.
I wonder if the docking port on top has any relation with the crew? Perhaps the internal layout is different than most ships or the docking port doubled as a lifeboat launcher. Would be hilarious if lancers squeezed an SPHA in instead of shuttles. Great content 👍🏻
TBH I think the 1 week consumables is more accurate simply because it would explain why it wasn’t mass produced and assigned to pirate hunting missions. It would always need support ships and escort ties to protect them.
in modern navies, there is a stark different between a Frigate and a destroyer. Frigates are slow, tending about 26 knots, they may weight just as much as a destroyer, but have a lower cruising speed, lower max speed, and often longer range. Both ships operate as anti-air screens, anti-sub screens.... but frigates often have very light antiship weaponry trading it for extra anti-sub or anti-air. a destroyer will run with fast ships, fast groups, will escort a carrier, and operate often with 1-2 cruisers. A frigate will run with other frigates, MAYBE having a destroyer as their leader. their job is to escort slow moving targerts... large slow targets... like LST's, marine transports, cargo ships and tankers. They are not made to slug it out with other big ships, instead they are to screen and protect. In star wars, i can see for example, a single Arquitens-class leading a convoy, with 4-6 Lancers providing screen, for a group of Gozanti-class cruiser-armed cargo ships.
well, realistically, the targeting computers of imperial ships should have no problem shooting the slow, big, lumbering rebel starfighters, and with the numerical superiority of the imp fighters (usually 10:1), rebel starfighters should have been wiped in every engagement......but, plot armor, and plot demands that imperial troops can't shoot or do basic military tactics or maneuvers......
You know, installing a couple of concussion missile tubes would both increase it's anti-starfighter power and give it the potential to deal with light capital ships. Or an ion cannon. No need to kill what can't kill you...
Love the Lancer. A fighter destroying monster that would have put the Alliance on the backfoot with their only advantage being rendered a liability with such a ship on the playing field.
As much as I love the Lancer, wouldn't it have been even better to just put the Lancer's weapons on the Star Destroyers? Get rid of a few of the sd's lighter guns for these, and I'd imagine the rebellion would give up.
Because Lucas wasn't writing sci-fi or trying to predict future technology, but rather presented new concepts with IRL concepts. So you get WWII dogfights, and spaceships based on Texas-class battleships.
Smaller weapons for smaller targets. Large cannons are not needed for attacking aircraft. Especially when they hug close to the ship. BUT ….. Vulture Droids would work.
The 1 week to 6 month should be the same as with our naval ships.. in that case it means at least 1 week with multiple meals fresh cocked each day where you can choose what you want to eat and all other stuff like clothings, spare parts and more also in full stock and 100% secured that nothing is missing if it is needed... an 6 month is maximum time you can operate with the crew only eating field or emergancy rations and only keeping nessesary systems operational. So really the absolut minimum time you can operate even in worst cases... and the absolut maximum time you can run the ship before forced to resuply if you want or not. And that times can differ even more in the real world... some submarines have a minimum operation time from 6-8 weeks... but can in theory operate 8-10 month in in emergancy.
top speed in space is easy my head cannon, artificial gravity and gravity compensation create drag on the ship. Artificial gravity creates a point singularity in space acting as an anchor for said ship... the ship "drags" that along with it as it flies .
Ah yes, the staple anti-fighter ship of every Empire At War mod.
Isn't it in the base game?
@@argosime no
The base game has the Tartan Patrol cruiser that is similar but has far less guns so becomes obsolete pretty quick IMO.
@@arthurfrayn7619base game it shreds fighters with it's overcharge.
@@TheMock5000 True but they costs 2 points (space battles are usually limited to 20 total) and once you unlock Victory Cruisers they cost 3 points. You get a big tough ship and a bunch of TIE fighters and a few bombers for free with those. That package deal is hard to beat; more versatile IMO.
Imagine this ship acting together with TIE Defenders and Phantoms, there would basically be no rebel alliance anymore.
For real
Yes I can confirm; had they invested in TIE Defenders instead of Death Stars they would have dominated. Source: the PC classic TIE Fighter where I commit starfighter genocide and destroy corvettes with them.
You sir, just described my first empire campaign victory in Thrawn's Revenge lolol
If only man
These little ships pack one helluva punch, but they were slow. You could say they move at a snails pace.
Remember when Wedge heard Rogue Squadron had to take out a Lancer Frigate and he was more nervous about that single engagement than he was about either Death Star?
Specifically, when Rouge Squadron along with three whole squadrons of Y-wings had one (1) Lancer-class and one (1) Carrack-class blocking their escape vector.
Maybe a missed tactic, pairing Lancers with Carracs or Nebulon Bs
I'm actually listening to that audiobook now. :) Book 1 Rogue Squadron.
Ngl, it's pretty badass the New Republic used the Lancer and other imperial material to defeat the Yuuzhan Vong. Those invaders made rebels and imperials understand they were all in the end brothers that killed each other for decades
New republic and Empire had signed final peace treaty at least 6 years earlier so...
@@wojtek561
But certain tensions between them were surely there. I mean, 20 years of non-stopping war aren't forgotten so easily, you know?
The answer for the empire was to modify the ISD by shedding some of the lighter turbolasers and replacing them with PDCs, albiet spread around the hull and also concentrated in crucial areas.
Imagine an ISD with a hundred quad laser cannons.
Sir, that's a warcrime.
I can only imagine the rude awaking pilots would have when an ISD starts to create a literal cloud of fire as PDC open up on snub fighters attempting the usual trench run
And now that you mentioned it, the real question is why they didn't do that?
🤔
What I don't get is why they didn't simply incorporate more point defense around critical areas like the superstructure, hanger bays or reactor bulbs on Star Destroyers? I can't imagine a battery of quad cannons being such a significant power drain to cause any issues for the main reactor.
On that note, why not swap out some of the rear facing turbo lasers on vessels like the Dreadnought to add anti starfighter screening to their role? Imperial space battles predominantly engaged capitol ships from a forward oriented position, so I can't imagine all of the rear turbo lasers doing much to contribute to the cause while deployed with a fleet.
The Lancer isn't incredibly faster than a Dreadnought anyway, so repositioning mid battle to face a new wave of fighters isn't tactically sound. Just bolster and adapt what you've already got instead of wasting funds and resources on something so heavily specialized
@@Castor586 they're created to be able to be destroyed by fighters. If they destroyed fighters easily well then we wouldn't have much of a movie. It's a fictional universe. Don't try to rationalize things designed to serve an irrational purpose.
The Lancer being slower than an ISD is an example of sourcebook shenanigans. In the first x-wing book it’s described as being able to outrun Y-Wings which are sourced at a speed of 80 megalights. The lancer is described in sourcebooks as having a speed of 20 megalights. The Lancer should have a speed of over 80 megalights which makes it faster than the ISD which is sourced as having a speed of 60.
It's a shame that dedicated ships aren't used on the scale they need to be used at, and when they are used, they often get used for the opposite of what they were intended for.
It was the same thing with the Venator. It wasn't used as the dedicated carrier it was, but instead as a battleship, which it wasn't meant for. Same thing with this ship. Under-used or miss-used
I played the SW-Strategy-Game _Rebellion_ once as the Empire and I built well over a hundred of these things. The Rebels' starfighters constantly had a hard time.
I’d protect my Death Star with Lancers and Victory 2s at a 3:1 ratio. Also, max cap Tie Defenders.
Where can I download that game? Is it on steam?
@@Ally.Cat.252 Haven’t been on BitTorrent in years, but I would think it would be there…
*Fun fact:* The last Lancer ship was used was during the Dark Nest Crisis by Raynar Thul, a student of Luke who during the Yuuzhan Vong wars was lost in the Unknown Regions and became Lord of the Killiks
14:23 For example, Raith Sienar was inspired by ETA-2 and Alpha-3 to create the TIE line.
Maybe it's with a companies that copies Smartphone copies one another.
There also may be a lot of poaching of each other’s talent happening between these corporations.
Only criticism I have, please personally refrain from the whole "they have to many crew, that's bad" trope. The United States Navy is regretting the reduction of crew via automation. Less crew equals longer watches. Longer watches leads to sleep deprivation. Sleep deprivation leads to making very bad mistakes, slow responses & reactions. You also have to take into account battle damage. Some crew will always become casualties, who will pick up the slack if you have to few crew? There's a reason why IRL warships have two different specs for crew compliments. A lower number for peace time, and a higher number for war time.
Frankly you are wrong. As a Marine Corps veteran, you will NEVER have so few personnel that night watch requires the same person on duty every night. You stand guard then you get an equal amount of time off. A 12 hour watch duty means 12 hours off after that, a 24 hour watch means you get a full day off after. The Marine Corps when I left it 5 years ago had around 150,000 active duty personnel. Which is small compared to the crews of most Star Wars ships, this one has a crew only 185 times smaller than our entire combined active forces. Automation has been a thing since the 80s. I worked on Vietnam era choppers (tech from 50 years ago) with technology that was far more advanced than the phone or TV you watched this on. Simple fact is our technology is hundreds of years behind needing humans to run it. And there's a massive technological stagnation in Star Wars. You're also wrong about crew compliments on Naval ships. It depends on their territory not if there's a time of war. The United States has been at war since 1990 basically. I served on understaffed and overstaffed boats and it was strictly because of the threat levels of the waters we went through. There's so many places to hide on a ship sleep deprivation isn't really a thing, you can easily escape to take an hour or longer nap. Then there's the fact naval forces haven't fought an actual battle since the end of World War 2, which was 80 years ago.
The Tarken doctrine really screwed the empire, this ship would have made rebels unable to act with hit and runs as effectively, especially when beside a proper capital ship
A proper capital ship would've been bristling with anti-fighter weaponry.
The Tarkin doctrine was used too early in the Galactic Empire's Reign. It should have been used far later when they actually did have a physical presence in every system outside of the Unknown Regions and had hundreds of thousands of ships. Tarkin jumped the gun WAAAAAY too early.
@@sonofeyeabovealleffoff5462 I'd argue that even still, it should never have been implemented, the venator was more than capable in my opinion, and even if the ISD had to be implemented, the venator could easily fly aside it
@@LoneWolf20213this. A proper power projection would have worked much better
The Lancers put the fear of Force in Rebel pilots. But they were also very, very weak even to fighters. Rogue Squadron was able to mission kill one with twenty two torpedos which left one a burning hulk. That's not a huge amount of firepower to take out a ship of it's size. And (at least initially) the guns had massive maintenance issues - the Imperial sourcebook saidt hat on any given day maybe half the guns would be offline. When Corran Horn is buzzing one he's sending back guncam footage to the other Rogues to spot towers that were offlined.
Technical problems could be solved but the frigate did have some major issues beyond just tactical utilization. Kilogram for kilogram, the Raider class frigate was a much better anti-starfighter platform that could perform more missions.
well for the docking port ontop of the bridge: kinda makes sense if we assume that many medium to large ships come with multiple ports including some on the underside. would also allow the ship to dock with those tie fighter recovery ships. and now live happy with the mental image of a gozanti class carrier with two lancer class frigates stuck to it.
13:02 because of the unlimited computational power and vast amounts of energy available, it would be possible to make any ship completely OP. (For example: look at Luthen Rael’s ship in Andor, with a couple of ion torpedoes and photon torpedos Luthen probably could have taken out that Cantwell-class). But the biggest limitation is that governments, factions, and individuals don’t have a lot of credits to buy these OP ships.
It’s a shame that a ship as niche yet capable as this existed but the empire just said “The rebels keep destroying our star destroyers and death stars! What do we do?” and the answer is “Make more!”
The imps had so much at their hands, and wasted so much of it
Based on the Roman Empire, so...yeah.
Well the Lancer-class was based on basic design of the Carrack-class light cruiser and the Dreadnaught-class heavy cruiser, both were old designs by the time of The Empire as the Dreadnaught-class was first seen in use 80 years before Clone Wars. All three ships and a number of other ships were all build based on classic Mandalorian Kandosii-type Dreadnaught which dated back all the way to the Mandalorian Wars.
Updated, Smaller, Modern Versions. The Carrack is truly terrifying when you realize its as fast as Star Fighters and can be crewed by Two People...with insane firepower for it's size. Gotta love the Carrack.
I always thought in Rebels that Thrawn would have had ships like this in his fleet and was surprised that he didn't have any with him, as of all the imperials there's him and Vader who are smart enough to both recognise the threat of fighters and the utility of anti-starfighter capability. Either way I would have thought that he would have had them while engaging the rebels at least a couple to protect his stern if nothing else.
He would have, but they needed five plucky heroes to never lose to him.
I mean they wrote Thrawn differently in Rebels. That, or they were unaware of the lore themselves.
@@Commander23cI would not be surprised if they didn’t know the lore
1:10 there actually is a good justification for this. Space gas and dust. The ships navigation shields can only take so much before they fail and if you are going fast enough you get a free turbolaser bombardment across the front of your ship.
I think that while the Lancer was at the job it was built for, enough to scare Rogue Squadron pilots like Wedge Antillies and Corran Horn. I don't think it wasn't needed.
The Carrack class already existed. It was tougher, more capable, and in an Anti-Starfighter configuration it had plenty of Light Laser canons, as much as the Lancer. Plus a good complement of Turbolasers and tractor beams for more versatility.
More focus on issuing Carrack Light cruisers out to protect fleets and convoys would of made a massive difference. Since even the Corellian Corvette, or Nebulon-B would have to take pause when dealing with them.
Not forgetting the Gozanti class cruisers and Firespray class escort carriers.
Seeing all the squadrons clips brings back good memories
That A-Wing pilot pulled a leroy jekins on that SSD.
Admiral Thrawn probably through most of his career: I am surounded by idiots.
Happy holidays 🎄🎄🎄
The only real 'problem' I have with this ship is that you want your escorts to be *faster* than the things they're escorting, so they can maneuver around them more easily, and quickly change position to respond to threats. So, it could have used a bit of a beefed up engine. Of course, it can still work fine, it's just less convenient, and if one of the frigates gets disabled it'll take others more time to move up and take its place.
Rather than redesigning to fix that though, if they just added some Gozanti-esq clamps along the underside, a ship that long could have carried at least a couple squadrons of TIEs externally. Then it wouldn't even need to be that fast.
The Lancer being slower than an ISD is an example of sourcebook shenanigans. In the first x-wing book it’s described as being able to outrun Y-Wings which are sourced at a speed of 80 megalights. The lancer is described in sourcebooks as having a speed of 20 megalights. The Lancer should have a speed of over 80 megalights which makes it faster than the ISD which is sourced as having a speed of 60.
Heck it was probably 'speed 7' or speed 8, in the stats?
Which is likely not actually equal to 70 or 80 MGLT, anyway. As the X-Wing was listed with speed 8, originally... 8 may = 100 MGLT, truly.
With 6 being 75, and 7 being 87, and so on...@@zzzxxc1
Your max speed is a result of how much power you can dump into you regular engines without blowing them up... lol.
Another amazing video
Sir, the rebels are using a lot of quick hit and run tactics with starfighters. We need laser canons to counter. Should we install them along our massive pizza slice ships with pleny of available hull space?
No, build multiple new ships, extremely expensive, just for laser canons so our pizza slice ships can stick with the big pew pews.
Excellent choice sir. Shall they also be pizza slice shape?
Make them giant exclamation marks!
Of course sir!
*Thrawn shaking his head* I'm surrounded by...wait, exclamation marks you say?
To be fair, this ship breaks the entire 'rules' of combat in star wars. If lancers were commonplace then the WW2 knock off dogfights between starfighters would end. Starfighters and bombers would be impossible altogether as an effective component in fleet engagements and combat would inevitably resemble something close to hard Sci Fi like the Expanse with much longer range duels between ships. That's fine in-universe but it would destroy the aesthetic of star wars which fans would ultimately hate.
I imagine top Speed is more recommended top speed, because it will take considerable energy to stop a star destroyer from destroying a planet because they were going too fast
I love how this channel answered my comment i wanted a review on the lancer and boom
Thank you editor for using rebel strike clips.😊👍
Wars over, imp
5:00 could be a hyperwave transceiver for Comms?
I never wasted this ship in EAW mods. I use it to help out my bigger ships. Lancers are valuable to me.
All three ships have that feel of "Our engineers came up with these plans for ships that we need built, now who will make the lowest bid to manufacture each of them for us?"
1:12 We can chalk this up to the same stuff in Star Wars space that makes starfighter battles in Star Wars look like WWII dogfights (like they’re maneuvering in an atmosphere).
Space isnt a perfect vacuum, and i believe in some source materials the Starwars galaxy has something called the Ether which is why their starfighters and ships move the way they do.
I often view speed limits in space as strong suggestions or regulations, meant to ensure a minimal amount of maneuverability and reasonable stopping time. It is especially viable for Star Wars as ships seem to generally just hang in space thanks to repulsors, rather than actually orbiting planets and moons.
Wedge was afraid of this ship and he had 2 deathstars painted on the side of his fighter.
Wayyy back in the day of Star Wars: Rebellion game time, I used Lancers to great effect in my Imperial forces. They were tougher than a bunch of fighters, needed less time to recover to full strength and fit well in a capital ship fleet. I loved these things, and I agree whole-heartedly they should have been used over Ties in handling the Rebels. Fortunately the "actual" Empire wasn't as clever as us.
14:42 It'd also be a massive pain to ID properly from visuals alone, if you're far enough away you probably can't tell what's what so the fleet numbers would be so muddled.
Awesome video as always!
WOOOOOOOOOO
ITS A GREAT DAY TO BE ALIVE!!!
The Raider is also a good choice
Paired together I hears they are dangerous
Especially cause the Raider can take on stronger vessels the Lancer cannot
Why didn't they put those very effective point-defense quad laser canons on the capital ships? Or put miniaturized versions of the planetary shields like in Rogue One in vulnerable areas that can keep the nimble fighters from exploiting the trenches.
"Vegan Italian Leather"
What the hell does that actually mean?
I still think they should have made this ship faster and change just a couple weapon systems to deal with something bigger then a fighter. over all this ship is nasty and its weapons will take out a carillion corvette. though admiral thrawn would happily have as many of these ships and pair them up with something better. in the Xwing novels with wraith squadron they had to deal with a lancer. and how much the pilots dread facing such a star ship. how they took such down was very good and only put one fighter at risk to get a target lock and fire a lot of missiles to take such down.
Differing top speeds in vacuum still makes sense, there isn't any resistance so the ship with the more powerful engine output would logically move faster, otherwise I chock maximum speeds up to inertial compensators that could logically be in use as to give the in-universe ships the best chance of obtaining the engine's maximum possible speed regardless of things like higher gravity that may appear on some worlds
Is there any character video coming up? I hope it's legends focused! I love the Jango and Boba Fett series and I hope there will be a Darth Vader, Revan, Sidious series.
Vegan Italian leather? I had no idea they were making leather out of vegans!
The Imps had other quite decent screening ships, like Tartan, Raider, CR92a, Carrack, and Enforcer.
The Tartan is perhaps the best. Its the same length as the Lancer, and had a similar armament of 20 single/double laser cannons. While less durable, it was very fast and very menuverable. This allows the tartan to both keep up with the fleet and match enemy starfighter movements, all the while being able to quickly disengage.
The lancer is severely limited by its slow speed.
The CR92a is another great option. It was tougher and more durable than almost all rebel CR90 varients, having 8 modular emplacements (quad lasers, or double TL) plus a powerful proton torpedoe. launcher. All this while being pretty cheap
The Raider is perhaps the second best in the Imp fleet. Mounting 6 accurate double lasers, anti starfighter concussion missles, and 4 double TL. This ship had a strong hull, great sheilding, and decent menuverability.
The Carrack, mounting the 20 Lasers rather than thr 20 ion cannons is another great option. While it was 100 meters longer than the tartan or lancer, it mounted practically the same armament plus 10 HTL. This allows it to easily stand against enemy corvettes and frigates whilst screening for the fleet. Not to mention, the carrack was incredibly durable and fast.
Vindicators and the subsequent Enforcers had great anti starfighter defenses, and if kept close to fleet csrriers or battlecrusiers, could effectively screening off incoming bombers or starfighters. The Vindicator especially was a decent light battleship and could protect the rear flank of larger ships or act independent. It is an underrated ship imo.
The Lancer being slower than an ISD is an example of sourcebook shenanigans. In the first x-wing book it’s described as being able to outrun Y-Wings which are sourced at a speed of 80 megalights. The lancer is described in sourcebooks as having a speed of 20 megalights. The Lancer should have a speed of over 80 megalights which makes it faster than the ISD which is sourced as having a speed of 60.
@zzzxxc1 yeah I know that, and I've heard it before. But I was just going along with the popular vote. Many say it's slow, so to counter that, I provide different capable ships
Source book Lancer, as it should be, is quite a great ship. But slow Lancer is kind of mediocre. Speed and menuverable makes all the difference for a Screening vessel imo
God, everytime yall bring up the cost in these breakdowns, it makes me realize the actual value worth of a credit is the most inconsistent thing in Star Wars lore.
hmm maybe the lancer could have benefitted from some corellian corvette style heavier laser cannons. Like it makes it less good at its job, but given the average imp didnt use it right it would have helped it be a bit more versatile against medium size ships too when theyre used defensively. An arquitens with a lancer would be a stout pair though lacking fighters of their own.
I wonder if the docking port on top has any relation with the crew? Perhaps the internal layout is different than most ships or the docking port doubled as a lifeboat launcher.
Would be hilarious if lancers squeezed an SPHA in instead of shuttles.
Great content 👍🏻
TBH I think the 1 week consumables is more accurate simply because it would explain why it wasn’t mass produced and assigned to pirate hunting missions. It would always need support ships and escort ties to protect them.
You should cover the special forces of the Empire; specifically the Storm Commandos. Darth Vader also harbored a special hatred for them as well.
Love the Lancer Class Frigate
A good video all around.
I wonder what the galaxy would look like if it were ruled and controlled not by fear, but by actual tactics, rational thinking, and competence.
in modern navies, there is a stark different between a Frigate and a destroyer.
Frigates are slow, tending about 26 knots, they may weight just as much as a destroyer, but have a lower cruising speed, lower max speed, and often longer range.
Both ships operate as anti-air screens, anti-sub screens.... but frigates often have very light antiship weaponry trading it for extra anti-sub or anti-air.
a destroyer will run with fast ships, fast groups, will escort a carrier, and operate often with 1-2 cruisers.
A frigate will run with other frigates, MAYBE having a destroyer as their leader. their job is to escort slow moving targerts... large slow targets... like LST's, marine transports, cargo ships and tankers. They are not made to slug it out with other big ships, instead they are to screen and protect.
In star wars, i can see for example, a single Arquitens-class leading a convoy, with 4-6 Lancers providing screen, for a group of Gozanti-class cruiser-armed cargo ships.
"Grand admiral Thrawn likes this ship"
well, realistically, the targeting computers of imperial ships should have no problem shooting the slow, big, lumbering rebel starfighters, and with the numerical superiority of the imp fighters (usually 10:1), rebel starfighters should have been wiped in every engagement......but, plot armor, and plot demands that imperial troops can't shoot or do basic military tactics or maneuvers......
You know, installing a couple of concussion missile tubes would both increase it's anti-starfighter power and give it the potential to deal with light capital ships.
Or an ion cannon. No need to kill what can't kill you...
I always mix this ship up with the Carrack class.
I guess I'm not the only one that noticed the similarities.
My favorite ship!
I wonder if you could still take down the Lancer Frigate with starfighters if you just be equally unfair?
A bunch of B wings alpha striking at once would get it no matter the losses
Rogue Squadron had to fight one once, and Wedge was more nervous about that fight than he was about either Death Star attack.
I mean, rogue squadron did it with 1 x wing and a dozen y wings with no losses.
@@Blaaz91they had plot on there side
mabye a more heavily armed and armoured starfighter like a b wing could pose a threat to it
back in the old XvT days i was in a roleplay clan and commanded one of thoose
Lancer frigate my beloved ♥
The Raider-II Class does it just as well with more capability and less than 10% the crew requirement, and at a cheaper price.
Vegan leather? As in not leather, kinda like how almond milk is actually almond juice or nut juice since its made by juicing nuts.
For ISDs, its like trying to swat flies that are too fast to be hit.
A wonderful machine.
Veeegan leather? Im quitting it!
Love the Lancer. A fighter destroying monster that would have put the Alliance on the backfoot with their only advantage being rendered a liability with such a ship on the playing field.
As much as I love the Lancer, wouldn't it have been even better to just put the Lancer's weapons on the Star Destroyers?
Get rid of a few of the sd's lighter guns for these, and I'd imagine the rebellion would give up.
Right now I feel I could take on the whole empire myself.
Pew pew 💥
Agreed
Some designer broke an unwritten rule of star wars. You can't just surround a ship in turbolasers, that's just cheating.
My poor Tartan.
I love this ship.
Why do they not utilize computers and automation more in the Star Wars universe?
Because Lucas wasn't writing sci-fi or trying to predict future technology, but rather presented new concepts with IRL concepts. So you get WWII dogfights, and spaceships based on Texas-class battleships.
Smaller weapons for smaller targets. Large cannons are not needed for attacking aircraft. Especially when they hug close to the ship. BUT ….. Vulture Droids would work.
mext complete breakdown video suggestion: Executor- Class SSD
No “Qui Gon the complete life break down”? 😮
One of the most powerful anti-figther ships and yet barely got produced imperial brains 0 rebels 1000.
whwere did ya get the mods to play all the other ships\missions????
What about part 4 of kenobi!?
Also what about about a full life of Luke ?
Please
Imagine the katana fleet were lancers instead of dreadnoughts
Jawa jerky, does it taste as good as Ewok jerky? If so I might have to barter for some and sale it off to the locals for real food.
The Cu Chulainn of starships
From which book is the page about the Lancer?
How do the Lancers compare to the Tartans?
Hey cool wallet I been looking to get a new one that is cool and I got to say I think this is it !!
A Starfighter killer if given modifications
I know this is off topic but is it every stated how old cin drellic is?
That's what dumb fired torpedoes are for. Six will do the job!
Tartan corvette please?
The 1 week to 6 month should be the same as with our naval ships.. in that case it means at least 1 week with multiple meals fresh cocked each day where you can choose what you want to eat and all other stuff like clothings, spare parts and more also in full stock and 100% secured that nothing is missing if it is needed... an 6 month is maximum time you can operate with the crew only eating field or emergancy rations and only keeping nessesary systems operational. So really the absolut minimum time you can operate even in worst cases... and the absolut maximum time you can run the ship before forced to resuply if you want or not.
And that times can differ even more in the real world... some submarines have a minimum operation time from 6-8 weeks... but can in theory operate 8-10 month in in emergancy.
top speed in space is easy
my head cannon, artificial gravity and gravity compensation create drag on the ship. Artificial gravity creates a point singularity in space acting as an anchor for said ship... the ship "drags" that along with it as it flies .