"...live long enough to be the bad guy." I think that's how it goes. But to be fair, this isn't ALL americans. Its the woke left and their moronic stance on life.
These wokist localizers still consider Japan to be morally degenerate compared to America. That's why they've taken it upon themselves to change anything Japanese to reflect *their* politics.
it's been going on for years and years just never as egregious as now....lefties are the worst of all colonizers as they subvert and destroy any and all art, literature and culture because their ignorance of their own cultures leaves them with nothing...
That’s why fan translation will always be better and why piracy will never die. If the original author wants to blame someone for their lack of western sales, it should be the “official” translators and localizers
100% agree, *real* fans (and i say real because there is also a ton of fake ones that Just get Into anime to have toxic discussions about how things should be different in X or Y) Those real fans wont ever try to make you swallow some political opinion nor Change the story with wat they think it fits the Best. Real fans that make the subtittles spend their own time with something that gives them 0 profit for the sole purpose of sharing a story they love. They have Respect for the author and the vas, even if they do not agree they wont Change a thing because they ACTUALLY respect the show. Nowadays anything that touches the West becomes stained by some family friendly, inclusive, anti racism, sexual orientation aceptance policy its disgusting
I just don't understand why they have to retcon everyone who doesn't adhere to strict gender roles as LGBT+. Does it ever occur to them that not everyone is as obsessed with gender as they are?
If it can’t be codified into their warped ideology, they taint it so it can be. And if they can’t change it, they destroy it so that none every get the luxury of viewing it for themselves. They do all of this because they don’t want ‘equality’ or ‘political correctness’. They want cultural revenge for centuries worth of discrimination, shaming and hatred.
I remember taking a global Englishes class in college, and we were discussing translators vs interpreters. When being a translator, you don't fucking matter. You give the best translation you can whether or not you like whats being said. These "localizers" are failing horrendously at their job, and should be fired and blacklisted.
Beware wall of text!!!!! From a translator (me! Hehe) Tl;dr, bad localisation is often the product of translator's inability to correctly interpret or express the nuance hidden in the original context. Please forgive us. But then, there are some who are just them overstepping the boundaries (like one in the video). Curse them as you like Full version: According to my own minuscule experience, blatant/plain translation in many literary materials proved to cause many misunderstandings regarding the culture or the nature of some sentences. There are also cases of English words unable to deliver the exact nuance of the sentences intended by the original writer, and vice versa. To me, at least, it is generally easier to present a better understanding of the original script when you are working in a non-professional environment. Meanwhile, professional environment demands you to be more creative. Essentially forcing you to localise the content, instead. I'm saying this as a former non-professional translator, and now professional translator. But, I might be lacking as a translator compared to the more senior ones, so just take my words as just a passing opinion if you so wish. Let's continue. When I translated manga to English for fun, I could freely make side-notes in the gaps between panels just to explain the situation, that even if, for example, a *pun* is lost in translation, I can provide readers with information about the original pun. Unfortunately, you can't do that in professional settings. If you're not smart enough, the lost *pun* from before is going to go away just like that. That's why some localised stuffs are losing its impact, losing its value, losing its nuance, or even losing its essence. It might be true that the translators are inadequate in this case, but English-Japanese or Japanese-English translation is always a challenge no matter how much time passed. HOWEVER! (Translator's note: Big HOWEVER means very serious however) HOWEVER, the one shown in the video, binary whatnot, is not something appropriate to use because it was never the intended sentence written by the author. The author really just wrote a simple sentence. To localise it like that, THAT was overstepping the boundary right there. Misappropriation of power, if you will. It's like translating, 「彼はすきを捨てて剣を取った。」into, "He left his farm for the dojo/old (sword) military," when it is literally just, "He exchanged his plough for a sword." Even when the sentence CAN mean the former, as a translator, you have to translate it like the latter. A simple sentence that is easy to translate as plainly as possible does not need to be changed into something complex. It is kind of the unwritten rule, or a sense of respect to never change the author's original script if possible. If you're a traditionalist, even the author's mistakes are often preserved in the translation. Translators have to have some respect towards the author. Without it, it is easy for translators to overstep the boundaries. That's what I think...
@@theunknownvoidz1409 even the English Dub of Demon Slayer changed the word “man” to “hunter” in a couple of scenes “Do you want to be a man?” to “Do you want to be a hunter?” (The original subtitles were on the screen) ETA: it might have been due to the mouth flaps wouldn’t have worked, but with this time in the West, we can’t ever know for sure haha. ETA months later: it doesn’t even matter about the mouth flaps, I forgot the character that said “hunter” instead of “man” is wearing a fox mask!
I'm honestly thankful for these translators / localizers. Every time I see how bad they are at their job I get a little more motivated to keep learning japanese, so I don't have to rely on their fake translations.
It is a small part of the motivation, I've been joking for around 20 years that I wanted to learn Japanese so I didn't need subtitles. Been trying a little harder this year, damn its a difficult language to learn. Considering that their "alphabet" is 214 characters (hiragana and katakana) and then however many hundreds of kanji you need to memorize just to start to learn it and the multiple different meanings for every syllable, different language structure, various levels of casual and polite speech... its no wonder that very few foreigners manage to be native levels of fluent.
Honestly, I've been watching anime for 5 years now and I got to understand a little japanese, I can understand some things they say and I'll tell you what... A lot of stuff is mistranslated, official subs translate some things *VERY* wrong.
Im from south america so this is not a problem and if they do this They are gonna get the biggest backlash possible And also the companies are not like that here so im fine
Honestly this is a huge reason why, at least in anime, more and more people decide to go the pirate route. The alleged profesionals change stuff as they please to fit whatever narrative they have in their heads while fansubs actually try to be as accurate as possible to what it's been said
In some cases they even refuse to translate if the concept is too culturally specific and instead put an asterisk and then explanation at the top of the screen. This is to avoid the whole Brock's doughnut situation.
@@lalisa_yaoyorozu "Yoroshiku Onigaishimasu" can be a TY in advance. It's contextual. Have they just now met or, Is Yumeko asking for help/a favor? Planning a future action?
Of course they changed Gren's backstory as "righting a wrong." We wouldn't want the people to think there are monsters out there that would go as far as to abuse drug prescriptions to the desperate and chemically scar individuals for life. Right...?
off topic but there was a case around 2016 of a boy who grew breasts because the "doctor" at Juvi gave him a prescription of Estrogen without the parent's consent.
@A K how is it faithful to change a man into a non-binary(?) personage? Not only did they change his style, they even changed his gender. Original Gren was a man. He wear masculine clothes because that's his style. He suffered from gynecomastia, but the growing breasts didn't change who he was. Even with them, he was still a man. "Righting the wrong" Gren was a non-binary person whom gender is unknown without gender reveal. *They* wear feminine clothes period. How is that faithful to the original, lol. Smh my head. The actor who said that really needed to rewatch the original
I've known a few trans people and they've never said "binaries" as replacement for the word "people". So it's not even a localization thing... this is just an idiot thing...
Ironic, the people claiming to be respectful and welcome to other cultures are the ones who have to inject their own "better" interpretations onto said works to make it more appealing to their taste. And yet these same people will rage and scream at artists who get inspired and draw their own interpretation of art from other cultures.
More like, "Moronic". They'll never understand that the more they play this stupid game, the more it'll hurt them in the future personally. They're a stereotype now. And people will remember them as such. 🙄🤣🍻
The irony will always be lost on them Also don't ever dare to point it out or you're just a racist sexist homophobic bigot and not a human thinking logically 🤷♂️
Hey your right. This reminds me of the whole “fixing xyz person’s art” that everyone was doing on Twitter apparently. This also reminds me of this one subreddit called mendrawingwomen. It’s literally a sub for getting offended at hot anime women, or anime women that might have exaggerated proportions…because apparently body exaggeration in cartoons is something completely new that has never happened to other cartoon characters that aren’t women.
Gren went from having a tragic and compelling backstory as one of the few other people that truly knew Vicious to being... a clichéd queer night club owner. Wow. That's some peak creativity right there.
Strange how back, anime/manga, comics, and video games where closet interests you kept to yourself because these things would either get you ridiculed in some way or get you that strange, alienated look from others if you share it out publicly but when they started to become more mainstream or trendy, you got a little excited. But now, you really see the downside of that effect when those interests are being put into the hands of some people who claim "they're fans" but doing the exact opposite to the material or people who downright dislike/hate it
I’m not a full on anime fan myself, but it seem that on the internet people still label as anime fans as creeps or pedos. But then again it’s the internet, they make fun of almost every single person that’s in any community.
They say you cannot judge people by their appeareance, but when i look at that dude i am pretty sure you absolutely can, pretty damn reliable these days.
thats because there is no book under that cover, thats all there is to that type of persons personality. Edit: or more accurately, they have that appearance **instead** of a personality.
How to trigger Twitter: 1) Straight people existing 2) Anime girls existing 3) Anything worth praising existing 4) Anything that gives off the slightest amount of enjoyment or pleasure existing 5) White characters existing 6) Siblings hugging innocently 7) Men just wanting to live their lives and not be around a single person just because it’s their girlfriend 8) The success of Spy X Family 9) Smug Anya 10) Mommy Yor 😩 👌 11) Loving the greatness that is anime 12) Adult (fictional) Anya 13) Localizers 14) Enjoying video games
Dont forget these Twitter triggers: -men existing and not automatically being miserable - Men having money and/or property -Not having black, trans, gay, insert nationality here etc. in your show -saying loli or trap -Slavery in anime -Girls with big boobs -Normal pictures of little girls
I'd have to think that there are many English speaking Japanese folks who would love a career translating Manga and games over to western audiences. Time to give these people the job.
Honestly, I do understand a slight bit of why some things need to be altered when translating media, the two reasons i personally find acceptable are, 1. The dialogue in question only makes sense in context of the dialect differences in Japanese IE osakan or kansai dialects having certain quirks to them. 2. There is no "local" equivalent to the phrase used. Most commonly analogies or turns of phrase don't have equivalent variants in every region of the world and as such a similarly suitable phrase use in those regions can be used. It was once put "if the joke doesn't work in English, Make the joke work in English", granted that's not a catch all way of thinking yet it doesn't inherently damage the intent of the scene either. I certainly don't think completely rewriting dialogue to spout " woke" culture is in any way acceptable though. Basically if they just went for accuracy within reason people wouldn't give them so much crap.
I mean, I'm studying translation myself and we are literally told everyday that we need to be as accurate as possible within the margin of the pragmatic stuff (Basically who will receive our translation/work). We can change stuff to make it more understandable in the final language, we have to, but keeping as close as we possibly can go the source material, and if we can't, we have to do our best and add a translator note explaining the trouble we had in that line. Altering the message of the work is considered a crime in the field of translation, makes the translator loose reputation and that equals less work.
Exactly, that's what the job description should say, and possibly even does, but my goodness many of them keep failing to do things properly. Their bastardization of language and its intention is really sad.
Kinda random but reading your first point, I thought to myself: In dubs, if they say something like "Do you speak Japanese?" in the original dub, will they localize it as "Do you speak English?" or do they keep the literal translation? Because on one hand, it's kinda weird hearing someone speaking English say that they are speaking Japanese. But on the other hand, it also doesn't make sense that lorewise everyone in Japan is speaking English. And what happens in dubs when a character starts talking broken English?
@@RexusprimeIX "The Great Pretender" had a really good answer to that. The cast is very much multicultural, and the main character started out not speaking English. So, for the first portion of the first episode, they had everyone speaking in their own language, then basically declared that they were all switching to Japanese for audience convenience. When it was dubbed, they actually kept that whole sequence in play, then when the time came for everyone to switch to English, they did so. An even better example would be the Seikai Trilogy anime (Crest/Banner of the Stars). There's actually not a single character who speaks English OR Japanese, they speak a fictional language called Baronh (the common language of the Humankind Empire Abh), and at the beginning of the first episode, they recorded and showed a portion of an upcoming episode in Baronh, specifically to show the language that the characters actually spoke in. The opening narration for each episode is recorded in Baronh as well. In a general sense, we really should understand that the language being spoken, whether or not any character in-series actually speaks it, is being spoken for audience convenience. In that (at least for me), it wouldn't break my willing suspension of disbelief to hear a character who is speaking English ask another character if they speak Japanese, because I understand that that is the language they are actually speaking, regardless of what I hear. As far as a character in dubs speaking broken English? Look no further than Shampoo from "Ranma 1/2", a Chinese native who only had limited grasp of Japanese, so she spoke broken Japanese in the original audio. When Ocean Studios dubbed it, they kept that intact.
It is a hard thing to learn. When you get to Kanji it'll seem daunting, but do not surrender if you go down this route, you'll need to be passionate or just excited to learn new things.
I do recommend it, it'll be pretty hard once you delve further in. But I suggest you start with Hiragana and Katakana, think about writing Kanji later. 😅
The only time that I feel translators should be allowed to be slightly looser is when translating idioms, culturally distinct metaphors or wordplay (puns etc.). At all other times they should be translating as close to original meaning as possible, without adding anything extra. Also wanted to note that sometimes it might not always be the translator doing the bastardising- it may be the editor. PS: the mangaka/illustrator on the left is Nishizawa 5mm-sensei, who designed Nene from Hololive.
@@danielantony1882 I think they mean it more in the that if the idiom literally can't be translated into English properly without it sounding just completely off. Just as an example, where I'm from there's an idiom/curse a person will say when they're upset over something, but the actual translation of it to English would be "Grandma's shoe!", which, yeah, doesn't sound right in English at all for what it's supposed to be. And as for things like puns/wordplay, they once again heavily rely of the language of origin, and often just don't translate well.
I miss the days of fan subs that would actually leave certain words in Japanese (but English characters) because the words were so well known among fans and would just add short notes explaining jokes that non-Japanese would likely not understand. Examples of some of this would be oni-chan, baka, itadakimasu, and other words that are turned into weeb memes. As for the notes I remember a few fan subs I watched a while ago that pointed out puns that only work in Japanese, stating the Japanese word for X is very similar to the word for Y or X characters name sounds like the word for Y so this other character is mocking them by purposely saying it incorrectly.
it brings back the memory when i was a Redrawer in a Scanlator i work with before... I remember when we handle the "AKUMETSU" manga series. We had a Translator that don't like few dialogue from the MC in AKUMETSU manga series, and he wanted to change it to make it more morally ok... Our Editor replied to him and say: "Just leave... we'll find another translator."😂 Our Editor doesn't give two shit whatsoever our Translator wanted to say.
-Aigis rim case close enough just barely -Cowboy Bebop LA this isn't even writing a wrong this is just burning something to the ground and dancing on it. -Trails Cold Steel how to discredit and make your job a joke in 5 seconds flat. (Fun Fact: Sexual/Erotic humor exists in all countries we are all guilty of it. To the point there is an entire genre called sex comedy.)
@@konekoun3743 Maby it could be some lines with olivert cuz he is very flirty to both guy and gals but honestly idk, the trails series is far more tame on lude stuff than even persona.
Keep in mind that Nisa didn't have the full say on localizing CS3 since... 1: They in pretty bad hot water with the fans with Ys8 2: Falcom (the developer) had a strict guide line with the translation so it' possibul some of the cencorship could have been from falcom not nisa. (I could be very wrong so don't quote me on that) 3: The fan service/harem elements in CS was disliked by both western and even Jp fans. The 2 games after CS4 tone down a lot of it. But hey thats my ted talk and the other examples are way more apperent on intent.
Been learning Japanese lately because I'd like to visit Japan once in my life, but this almost makes me want to try to get into the translation game so I could do it right
It's my genuine love for Japanese culture and language that I'm training to become a translator. But it's people like these (the ones shown in the video) that make me ashamed to admit I want to become one
i said it once before, but japan NEEDS to put in the contract that you are only allowed to make direct translations, except when a direct translation wont carry the same weight. either translate it how they say it, or you dont get to touch it.
"Filosofia Gaming" is a spanish youtube channel, but often tweets in english It's a channel similar to this and often reaches to the same conclusions about the censorship/puritan culture we see these days Even if you don't understand spanish, you can watch the guy and be filled with determination, he's your average chad anime/gaming enjoyer
Translators/localizers should mostly only change dialogue in cases where the original text just won't translate. For example, puns or wordplay in Japanese that obviously won't work in a different language. The only other reason would be for pop culture references that wouldn't be understood outside the country.
I have done some incidental localization for fan sites in my spare time, and I frequently had to deal with joke titles that needed to be translated into other languages. There were a few that simply had no direct translations, so I had to pick the closest word or phrase while still making the joke understandable. Still, I tried as hard as I could to keep the meaning intact, as simply doing something else would not only be factually incorrect, but disrespectful to the original writers.
I find it more disturbing how these types of people keep on finding work in popular culture industries like cartoons, comic books, manga, anime, and video games etc. And they have absolutely no love for these products and the works that they promote. While they downright slander and hate the original fans.
I'll say it again, it you want a more deep-dive style look into this topic, Dimitri Monroe made an excellent video about the problems of modern localization.
Some localization is just weird, like translating a ceremonial/religious thank you for the food into "Let's eat!" And some localization is just clumsy. And some localization is random but trying hard, like replacing a joke with a different joke. But localization that is straight up lying -- that should be a firing offense at the very least.
I wish Star Wars fans were like Anime fans in this regard. But instead of being loyal to the creator, we complain when he has it to the series he made changes something from a book he probably never knew existed. Then Disney came and the hate got worse ... but that's a story for another time
Gren was literally my favourite character in Cowboy Bebop, and that's saying something with how many great characters that anime has. To see him (yes him, he still identifies as a man after everything that happened to him) get so mistreated in the Netflix adaptation is honestly disgusting. To those that did that and felt "proud" about "fixing" the character, I hope you never have a platform to be creative again.
"Ooohh ohhhhhhh I'm gonna, I'm gonna LOOOOOCAAAALIZE" What's awful isn't just that they're bad at their jobs, but that they're so openly PROUD about how bad they are. They have no desire in being accurate. The big problem with this is how diverse American culture is. You're going to have vastly different values and opinions from one city/state to the next. You can't possibly localize foreign media for "American values" because there isn't a single culture here.
Having just finished watching Mirai Nikki, the zooming shot of Yuno Gasai's face as you asked us to like an subscribed filled me with a sort of building horror in the memory of that character.
Pov: when you are non-american, Japanese culture enthusiast but can't read Japanese, and your only available legal option was heavily edited localized american version of the original. America stop it. Just translate is as it is. Stop translating out of context, I did not get your culture and also please stop changing the character name into your employee's name.
I wish localizers were true fans who would instead push for adding Japanese honorifics into the english subs, like what fansubbers often do. I'm not sure if it would work for dubs as well, but I'd like to see that happen, too. So far it looks like the people who get power are the people who want power the most, rather than people who care, be it Anime or stuff in general. "If you want to judge a human's character, give them power."
I've been noticing this a lot in translated Japanese games. I hate it. Nothing but propaganda. Am I the only one who sees this as disrespectful towards the Japanese creators as well?
in my personal opinion the only times where the translation shouldn't be accurate is if it's a joke that only makes sense in japan, but don't completely change the context but instead make it a very similar joke translated
Like the comedy anime BoBoBo, that one had so many Japanese in jokes that the English Dub had to make their own jokes that would still fit in those scenes. Example: Japanese version, character make a joke about Natto English version, "By the way those beans have spider webs in them"
I have 2 things to say about this: 1. Anine become popular through piracy, fansubbers were translating the best they can to bring the original dialogs to the west, so we could say Anime is popular because it's different from western media 2. Today translators don't realize, or don't care, that they are behaving like some sort of angry parents committee from the 90's, they are no different from those who decided to censor the lesbians characters in Sailor Moon in the US, and I bet they did it back then because "the west has other values"...
Ok so from what I understand, guy makes anime in Japanese, English translator dude doesn't think it'll be good for English audiences, translator dude just changes the whole thing.
It is a fact that some things are going to get lost in translation. Idioms are a good example of something that might not make sense even if translated accurately. The key is, as Hero Hei said, to be as accurate and authentic as possible. That might mean trying to find something equivalent that isn't precisely identical, and sometimes that's even okay. Personally I'd prefer it if we got more stuff like those OG fansubs of Gintama back in the day that all those great notes, though.
@@danielantony1882 Really? So a non-native English speaker is going to understand the _meaning_ of something like "cutting corners" or "you can say that again" through literal translation alone? I don't buy it.
@@iDEATH It's not literal translation. It's called Extended Explanatory translation. There's a reason Translation notes exist. Misinforming people about Idioms is the last thing you want to do.
@@iDEATH Also, cutting corners is not hard to translate. Sure, a few things about the word "Cut"' get lost in translation but that's what Translation Notes are for. And I'm sure you understand that. My only complaint is when localization gets too loose and stretches to the point where we get straight misinformation. A good example is Re:Zero. The Russian subs for it are so bad that they managed to localize "Legend" as "Anecdote", even though the word legend is a very common and respected thing in Russian. What we get is people thinking Banan's Legend was anecdotal when it was, in fact, more serious than you can imagine.
@@danielantony1882 I think we actually agree, and I might see the problem. In my OP, I used "accurately" where "literally" would have been more precise.
By the way, the mangaka on the left at the beginning is Nishizawa 5mm, known famously for being a large breasted woman who draws stories about large breasted women. She's also the illustrator for Hololive's Momosuzu Nene, and deliberately added an underboob glory hole to the idol's costume.
Stuff like this is why i went out of my god damn way to lean Japanese in the first place. If most people who watch anime can understand the language said then there would be no need for translators in the first place. If it's too hard for you to learn, don't worry. Just keep watching subs instead of dubs. Eventually you'll start to pick up some words, then phrases, whole sentences and by the time you know it you'll be halfway to learning the actual language already. It's not uncommon you know. People who migrate to non English speaking countries often learn the language by observation and interaction and we anime lover do that anyway. You are aware you're consuming foreign media right? Don't worry you're awesome.
Am actually considering to learn 1 hour of japanse each day because of this,since i already have about a dozen not to mention while I can't give a translation ,nowdays i can even understand what they are saying. P.S: i can't explain how i understand without being able to translate ,it just works somehow.
I remember Funimation getting their hands thoroughly slapped over trying this kinda crap with their subs and dubs. Monica Rial was once the worst proponents for puritanization of properties. She ended up having to voice the titular Uzaki-chan to get the hounds to back off after saying repeatedly she wanted to torpedo the series or completely redirect the dub. It's a sacred trust between content creators and the sub/dub/localization teams in which the creator is putting their hard work into the hands of the localizer in good faith that they will not ruin the concepts and story as the creator presented it. It's understandable that there are some things that localizer might change, especially in a dub, to better help the audience take the material on such as pop culture references or historical figure reference points BUT never the key concepts and core story. I still remember when anime and manga was a super niche and small community, we welcomed new people with open arms to share the thing we loved but like a lot of western franchises we ended up inviting in the SJW and agenda wolves that can't enjoy anything if it isn't specially for them and under the direct and total control. At some point it became less about broadening the community and being inclusive through growth and more about gatekeeping and dominance empowered by some twisted sense of righting wrongs that have nothing to do with the community in the first place.
Dear god that video game comparison at the start. The one on the right was perfect. It got the point across in as few lines as possible. The image on the left is word vomit.
Pretty much, so stupid & unnecessary with how they handle localization. But that’s modern day Sega/Atlus of America for ya. Don’t have any faith they’ll do a good job with Soul hackers 2 localization either.
I think it makes sense for localizers to change stuff to make it more understandable on different cultures, that aspect of translation exists for a reason. There are two problem however, first, they obviously change stuff that don't need localizing, and do it to moralize instead of adapt; and second, anime is consumed (mostly) by weebs who understand, to some extent, the Japanese's culture, so it would be much more efficient and productive to make direct translations and include an * to indicate the origin of stuff that might not make sense outside of Japan.
@Fhorres Daekeut When comedies are translated to Spanish they would change stuff like wordplays, usually for another wordplay, to keep the comedic intend that would be lost if translated directly. The point of localization is to keep the intent, when done correctly obviously.
It is also done when there is a cultural equivalent, like changing the date of the independence day to the independence day of the target country (saying 4 of july could mean nothing to the viewer).
I definitely agree with you. When it comes down to a official translation they should translate it pretty much word for word, or as close as they can get. And if they want to change stuff about it based on what they feel is right or wrong then they should do a podcast or a tweet so they can still get their feeling about the show and ideas they had to change it instead of disappointing western fans by straight up changing it because they felt like it would "fit that part better"
I personally prefer keeping the spirit of the text instead of directly translating everything exactly as it is. It can also lead to confusion as some things won’t make sense if they’re directly translated.
@@theatheistbear3117 Oh, I guess you're right, just yesterday I was watching the final episode of an anime, and for some reason it did have direct translation, like word for word, and it didn't make much sense so I had to do a lot of guessing. So I agree that the spirit of the text is really important
@@Gameguy207 It’s really understated just how important this is. Books that are translated directly don’t give you the same writing style as the author’s, and will if anything be incredibly bland. I can attest to this as a non-native speaker having read English books translated into Dutch. They’re generally not that great, nor good. Language is a way of communication, and communicating the ideas of the story is important. A great scene can be ruined by direct translation.
@@MegaManJake Pretty much. The translations that are officially backed by the author (such as Tolstoy did for War & Peace) as the intended way to read the story in English are rare.
Back before the “Great Chinese Cough” I had heard the Kodawa studios was interested in opening up their own studio/publishing company in the west to allow for more accurate translation of their LN, Manga, and Anime. Though this was all before Tencent got their hands on some shares.
As a translator I am appalled by the self insert views that some American translators forcefully include into their works! We are taught to be as faithful as we can in order to convey the message.
this is why people prefer jp dubs then eng dubs because people who translate it just don't understand it should be an accurate translation and not because u simply get offended. It makes everyone misunderstand how the anime truly is.
That and the voice acting in English dubs has gotten bad over the years. The last anime known to have a well loved English dub was Assassination Classroom. I do think the Uzaki-Chan isn't bad but the jokes seem to land better in the sub version.
Honestly, the localization of games bothers me moreso than anime. I know a little bit of Japanese from watching anime and studying a bit over the years, so I can usually tell when the subtitles don't match, But a lot of Jgames aren't fully voiced, and I'm not really at the level were I can read Japanese at a decent pace (If Japanese text is even an option). I can't tell you how many times I've been playing a JRPG and noticed lines, or even entire scenes that don't match the spoken dialogue at all. And that's to say nothing about the ones I didn't notice.
@@bb_ue rude , personally I don't agree with trans/gay people however it's their choice leave them to it. I will however not be nice to someone who doesn't do the same to me.
Why... WHY WOULD YOU CHANGE THE WHOLE IP?! WHAT THE HELL?! Isn't this grounds for international suing? Is there any legal action developers and authors can take against localization companies?
Honestly, they could have had a pretty interesting side plot of an episode if they had Gren interact with a pre-op Trans-woman and have them discuss the differences of their situations. Like have Gren say something like, "Where we differ, is that I was comfortable in the body I was born in, and they took that away from me." That could be genuinely good.
That guy's hair looks like a mint flavoured cotton candy. I just wonder who the heck is brave enough to walk outside with food as your hair. (This is just a joke, don't take it seriously)
They aren't brave, they're delusional. They think only about themselves thats why the inject their ideology into everything they do to normalize their garbage. A normal person who has to translate something literally just translates what is right there. They have no reason to alter it for they are content with themselves.
"Westerners have different values." Kinda like the westerners have the values of a donut and an onigiri is offensive to them. (I know it's not the same thing, but what I'm getting at is stop changing crap for the sake of changing crap. If you have a problem with the original anime then give it to someone else that can respect the anime and release it exactly how it is in the original form. I'm saying anime, but I should more say ANYTHING Japanese related. Anime, manga, games, whatever. Kind of glad in a way that Konami stopped making actual Ganbare Goemon games. Imagine if they made a new game and the villain Bismaru came back. (For those that don't know the series, Bismaru is a transsexual nun from the future that's a descendant of one of the main heroes, Ebisumaru... which also been hinted on originally being a girl and changed into a guy as a joke. They wouldn't take kindly of that joke these days.)
As a translator I'm disgusted by this "translation". God forbid I change the meaning of my source text to fit my views. My job is to translate and adapt from one language to another, nothing more, nothing less. Granted, I usually translate documents, but still. Disgusting :(
Honestly, this is why I wanna learn Japanese, I can watch anime without worrying about all this crap. Like, don't change the meanings, it messes up the anime/manga and ruins it for everyone.
I remember when Japan was considered morally degenerate compared to America, seems like that has completely flipped.
Yep. I’m sick of my country. Bring on the fire and brimstone
"...live long enough to be the bad guy." I think that's how it goes. But to be fair, this isn't ALL americans. Its the woke left and their moronic stance on life.
These wokist localizers still consider Japan to be morally degenerate compared to America. That's why they've taken it upon themselves to change anything Japanese to reflect *their* politics.
The coin didn't flip. We just realized we were lied to the whole time.
No.
It's just both are.
Stuff like this makes me understand more why people prefer original Japanese dubs of anime and whatnot.
stuff like this is why i prefer to pirate anime
It's the pirate's life for us matey!
it's been going on for years and years just never as egregious as now....lefties are the worst of all colonizers as they subvert and destroy any and all art, literature and culture because their ignorance of their own cultures leaves them with nothing...
Sub>>>dub
@@xaint5298 Sub > dub and lately Fansub > offical sub
That’s why fan translation will always be better and why piracy will never die. If the original author wants to blame someone for their lack of western sales, it should be the “official” translators and localizers
yep
Aye!
100% agree, *real* fans
(and i say real because there is also a ton of fake ones that Just get Into anime to have toxic discussions about how things should be different in X or Y)
Those real fans wont ever try to make you swallow some political opinion nor Change the story with wat they think it fits the Best.
Real fans that make the subtittles spend their own time with something that gives them 0 profit for the sole purpose of sharing a story they love.
They have Respect for the author and the vas, even if they do not agree they wont Change a thing because they ACTUALLY respect the show.
Nowadays anything that touches the West becomes stained by some family friendly, inclusive, anti racism, sexual orientation aceptance policy its disgusting
Unfortunately you are correct.
Exactly
I just don't understand why they have to retcon everyone who doesn't adhere to strict gender roles as LGBT+. Does it ever occur to them that not everyone is as obsessed with gender as they are?
If it can’t be codified into their warped ideology, they taint it so it can be. And if they can’t change it, they destroy it so that none every get the luxury of viewing it for themselves.
They do all of this because they don’t want ‘equality’ or ‘political correctness’. They want cultural revenge for centuries worth of discrimination, shaming and hatred.
Agree
and they also say charaters who are lgbt arent like just translate them propperly
The worst part is that they don't have that bull in Japan for the most part everyone there is normal
@@generic_tough_guy.4830 They got gay people in Japan, bucko. They got trans people too. And nonbinaries. "Normal", smh.
I remember taking a global Englishes class in college, and we were discussing translators vs interpreters. When being a translator, you don't fucking matter. You give the best translation you can whether or not you like whats being said. These "localizers" are failing horrendously at their job, and should be fired and blacklisted.
Better yet, they will suffer worse punishments employed by the Tokugawa shogunate before.
@lemonssssssss4 Interpreter is for speaches and live events. Translators are for print and anything that's not live
Well said
Beware wall of text!!!!! From a translator (me! Hehe)
Tl;dr, bad localisation is often the product of translator's inability to correctly interpret or express the nuance hidden in the original context. Please forgive us. But then, there are some who are just them overstepping the boundaries (like one in the video). Curse them as you like
Full version:
According to my own minuscule experience, blatant/plain translation in many literary materials proved to cause many misunderstandings regarding the culture or the nature of some sentences. There are also cases of English words unable to deliver the exact nuance of the sentences intended by the original writer, and vice versa.
To me, at least, it is generally easier to present a better understanding of the original script when you are working in a non-professional environment. Meanwhile, professional environment demands you to be more creative. Essentially forcing you to localise the content, instead. I'm saying this as a former non-professional translator, and now professional translator. But, I might be lacking as a translator compared to the more senior ones, so just take my words as just a passing opinion if you so wish.
Let's continue. When I translated manga to English for fun, I could freely make side-notes in the gaps between panels just to explain the situation, that even if, for example, a *pun* is lost in translation, I can provide readers with information about the original pun. Unfortunately, you can't do that in professional settings. If you're not smart enough, the lost *pun* from before is going to go away just like that. That's why some localised stuffs are losing its impact, losing its value, losing its nuance, or even losing its essence. It might be true that the translators are inadequate in this case, but English-Japanese or Japanese-English translation is always a challenge no matter how much time passed.
HOWEVER! (Translator's note: Big HOWEVER means very serious however) HOWEVER, the one shown in the video, binary whatnot, is not something appropriate to use because it was never the intended sentence written by the author. The author really just wrote a simple sentence. To localise it like that, THAT was overstepping the boundary right there. Misappropriation of power, if you will.
It's like translating, 「彼はすきを捨てて剣を取った。」into, "He left his farm for the dojo/old (sword) military," when it is literally just, "He exchanged his plough for a sword." Even when the sentence CAN mean the former, as a translator, you have to translate it like the latter.
A simple sentence that is easy to translate as plainly as possible does not need to be changed into something complex. It is kind of the unwritten rule, or a sense of respect to never change the author's original script if possible. If you're a traditionalist, even the author's mistakes are often preserved in the translation.
Translators have to have some respect towards the author. Without it, it is easy for translators to overstep the boundaries. That's what I think...
Based
Imagine wanting anime over in the West but still calling it wrong because it magically doesn’t fit their woke culture.
Nothing will never truly satisfy people. That’s why people shape things into what they want to see/hear.
THIS
@@theunknownvoidz1409 even the English Dub of Demon Slayer changed the word “man” to “hunter” in a couple of scenes
“Do you want to be a man?” to “Do you want to be a hunter?” (The original subtitles were on the screen)
ETA: it might have been due to the mouth flaps wouldn’t have worked, but with this time in the West, we can’t ever know for sure haha.
ETA months later: it doesn’t even matter about the mouth flaps, I forgot the character that said “hunter” instead of “man” is wearing a fox mask!
Wdym
White people in a nutshell
I'm honestly thankful for these translators / localizers. Every time I see how bad they are at their job I get a little more motivated to keep learning japanese, so I don't have to rely on their fake translations.
私も、localizers can f off. Mf don't know what their real job is.
Since i have been focusing on LN and manga/manhwa/manhua latey ,its good you are giving out this info.
It is a small part of the motivation, I've been joking for around 20 years that I wanted to learn Japanese so I didn't need subtitles. Been trying a little harder this year, damn its a difficult language to learn. Considering that their "alphabet" is 214 characters (hiragana and katakana) and then however many hundreds of kanji you need to memorize just to start to learn it and the multiple different meanings for every syllable, different language structure, various levels of casual and polite speech... its no wonder that very few foreigners manage to be native levels of fluent.
Honestly, I've been watching anime for 5 years now and I got to understand a little japanese, I can understand some things they say and I'll tell you what... A lot of stuff is mistranslated, official subs translate some things *VERY* wrong.
Im from south america so this is not a problem
and if they do this
They are gonna get the biggest backlash possible
And also the companies are not like that here so im fine
Honestly this is a huge reason why, at least in anime, more and more people decide to go the pirate route. The alleged profesionals change stuff as they please to fit whatever narrative they have in their heads while fansubs actually try to be as accurate as possible to what it's been said
Frfr when i rewatched kakegurui on netflix Yumeko said nice to meet you in japanese but the subtitles said thank you in advance. Like wtf
In some cases they even refuse to translate if the concept is too culturally specific and instead put an asterisk and then explanation at the top of the screen. This is to avoid the whole Brock's doughnut situation.
@@lalisa_yaoyorozu "Yoroshiku Onigaishimasu" can be a TY in advance. It's contextual. Have they just now met or, Is Yumeko asking for help/a favor? Planning a future action?
@@Lurksmore they just met but she said yoroshikune
@@lalisa_yaoyorozu Pretty informal. I see that as " Good, right" I can see the " Thanks in advance" take on it.
Of course they changed Gren's backstory as "righting a wrong."
We wouldn't want the people to think there are monsters out there that would go as far as to abuse drug prescriptions to the desperate and chemically scar individuals for life. Right...?
Of course not, let alone approve of such drugs and treatment for children! No such monster exists. /s
@A K i think you miss the point, they shouldn't change it in the first place. That alone changes everything
off topic but there was a case around 2016 of a boy who grew breasts because the "doctor" at Juvi gave him a prescription of Estrogen without the parent's consent.
@A K i think you need to watch the anime my friend
@A K how is it faithful to change a man into a non-binary(?) personage? Not only did they change his style, they even changed his gender.
Original Gren was a man. He wear masculine clothes because that's his style. He suffered from gynecomastia, but the growing breasts didn't change who he was. Even with them, he was still a man.
"Righting the wrong" Gren was a non-binary person whom gender is unknown without gender reveal. *They* wear feminine clothes period.
How is that faithful to the original, lol. Smh my head. The actor who said that really needed to rewatch the original
I've known a few trans people and they've never said "binaries" as replacement for the word "people". So it's not even a localization thing... this is just an idiot thing...
I feel bad the dictionary industry, if they decide to put all of those stupid words on it
Wait how does "binaries" become the new word for "people" now? Isn't the word "people" already gender neutral? I fail to see the logic here
@@kirakira_san Apparently they thought the word need to be change because it contains "cis people" in it
I wonder how Hero Hei witnessed everything he saw without turning into the Joker
Maybe he laughs secretly in his sleep?😅
At this point, he's immune to it
Well he has green hair, so the transformation is already stared -_-
Seriously stop making fun of someone's appearance
@@simonebernacchia Is it 24 hours already? About time for his skin to turn pale and his lips to redden
Ironic, the people claiming to be respectful and welcome to other cultures are the ones who have to inject their own "better" interpretations onto said works to make it more appealing to their taste.
And yet these same people will rage and scream at artists who get inspired and draw their own interpretation of art from other cultures.
More like, "Moronic". They'll never understand that the more they play this stupid game, the more it'll hurt them in the future personally.
They're a stereotype now. And people will remember them as such. 🙄🤣🍻
Exactly.
Well they are obviously projecting hypocrites.
They accuse others exactly what they are guilty of.
The irony will always be lost on them
Also don't ever dare to point it out or you're just a racist sexist homophobic bigot and not a human thinking logically 🤷♂️
Hey your right. This reminds me of the whole “fixing xyz person’s art” that everyone was doing on Twitter apparently. This also reminds me of this one subreddit called mendrawingwomen. It’s literally a sub for getting offended at hot anime women, or anime women that might have exaggerated proportions…because apparently body exaggeration in cartoons is something completely new that has never happened to other cartoon characters that aren’t women.
Never has there been a truer tweet.
I mean it's brutally accurate.
Ikr?
Filosofía es capo
Gren went from having a tragic and compelling backstory as one of the few other people that truly knew Vicious to being... a clichéd queer night club owner. Wow. That's some peak creativity right there.
Well that american being american😂
Classic
Strange how back, anime/manga, comics, and video games where closet interests you kept to yourself because these things would either get you ridiculed in some way or get you that strange, alienated look from others if you share it out publicly but when they started to become more mainstream or trendy, you got a little excited.
But now, you really see the downside of that effect when those interests are being put into the hands of some people who claim "they're fans" but doing the exact opposite to the material or people who downright dislike/hate it
Yeah ;p, most mainstream stuff is just... I prefer some of my favorites things to remain smoll..
I’m not a full on anime fan myself, but it seem that on the internet people still label as anime fans as creeps or pedos. But then again it’s the internet, they make fun of almost every single person that’s in any community.
tbh, i still remember and miss the internett before all the normies came online
They say you cannot judge people by their appeareance, but when i look at that dude i am pretty sure you absolutely can, pretty damn reliable these days.
thats because there is no book under that cover, thats all there is to that type of persons personality.
Edit: or more accurately, they have that appearance **instead** of a personality.
@@unkosherfood It's a poster, not a book.
Judging by sight is how we survived as a species. It's still a valid method.
@@TheGuitarfreak696 It's not without reason there are cold readers who can tell a TON of stuff about people just by looking at them closely.
Dont trust people who look like that basically
Being a morality police in anime community, that won’t end well
We shouldn't need/have one for anime to begin with
The morality police will eventually go bankrupt that it will be illegal to come back.
"morality"...these "localizers" aren't moral...
@@xymos7807 Agreed
@DragonSlayer Marr In the words of Darth Sidious: "Do it!"
How to trigger Twitter:
1) Straight people existing
2) Anime girls existing
3) Anything worth praising existing
4) Anything that gives off the slightest amount of enjoyment or pleasure existing
5) White characters existing
6) Siblings hugging innocently
7) Men just wanting to live their lives and not be around a single person just because it’s their girlfriend
8) The success of Spy X Family
9) Smug Anya
10) Mommy Yor 😩 👌
11) Loving the greatness that is anime
12) Adult (fictional) Anya
13) Localizers
14) Enjoying video games
You mean mentioning localizers ruining animes triggers twitter
You somehow left out religion, as that instantly triggers as much as saying "rpo life" or "Trump".
@@blumiu2426 rpo life ?
Dont forget these Twitter triggers:
-men existing and not automatically being miserable
- Men having money and/or property
-Not having black, trans, gay, insert nationality here etc. in your show
-saying loli or trap
-Slavery in anime
-Girls with big boobs
-Normal pictures of little girls
@@spec2893 The day will most likely if not guaranteed to come
I'd have to think that there are many English speaking Japanese folks who would love a career translating Manga and games over to western audiences. Time to give these people the job.
The editor might reject their translation and told them to be woke. The industry is shit anyway
@user-zq7vi8lm4z only one part of it, shill.
Honestly, I do understand a slight bit of why some things need to be altered when translating media, the two reasons i personally find acceptable are,
1. The dialogue in question only makes sense in context of the dialect differences in Japanese IE osakan or kansai dialects having certain quirks to them.
2. There is no "local" equivalent to the phrase used. Most commonly analogies or turns of phrase don't have equivalent variants in every region of the world and as such a similarly suitable phrase use in those regions can be used.
It was once put "if the joke doesn't work in English, Make the joke work in English", granted that's not a catch all way of thinking yet it doesn't inherently damage the intent of the scene either.
I certainly don't think completely rewriting dialogue to spout " woke" culture is in any way acceptable though.
Basically if they just went for accuracy within reason people wouldn't give them so much crap.
Couldn't have said it better myself
I mean, I'm studying translation myself and we are literally told everyday that we need to be as accurate as possible within the margin of the pragmatic stuff (Basically who will receive our translation/work). We can change stuff to make it more understandable in the final language, we have to, but keeping as close as we possibly can go the source material, and if we can't, we have to do our best and add a translator note explaining the trouble we had in that line.
Altering the message of the work is considered a crime in the field of translation, makes the translator loose reputation and that equals less work.
Exactly, that's what the job description should say, and possibly even does, but my goodness many of them keep failing to do things properly. Their bastardization of language and its intention is really sad.
Kinda random but reading your first point, I thought to myself: In dubs, if they say something like "Do you speak Japanese?" in the original dub, will they localize it as "Do you speak English?" or do they keep the literal translation? Because on one hand, it's kinda weird hearing someone speaking English say that they are speaking Japanese. But on the other hand, it also doesn't make sense that lorewise everyone in Japan is speaking English. And what happens in dubs when a character starts talking broken English?
@@RexusprimeIX "The Great Pretender" had a really good answer to that. The cast is very much multicultural, and the main character started out not speaking English.
So, for the first portion of the first episode, they had everyone speaking in their own language, then basically declared that they were all switching to Japanese for audience convenience. When it was dubbed, they actually kept that whole sequence in play, then when the time came for everyone to switch to English, they did so.
An even better example would be the Seikai Trilogy anime (Crest/Banner of the Stars). There's actually not a single character who speaks English OR Japanese, they speak a fictional language called Baronh (the common language of the Humankind Empire Abh), and at the beginning of the first episode, they recorded and showed a portion of an upcoming episode in Baronh, specifically to show the language that the characters actually spoke in. The opening narration for each episode is recorded in Baronh as well.
In a general sense, we really should understand that the language being spoken, whether or not any character in-series actually speaks it, is being spoken for audience convenience. In that (at least for me), it wouldn't break my willing suspension of disbelief to hear a character who is speaking English ask another character if they speak Japanese, because I understand that that is the language they are actually speaking, regardless of what I hear.
As far as a character in dubs speaking broken English? Look no further than Shampoo from "Ranma 1/2", a Chinese native who only had limited grasp of Japanese, so she spoke broken Japanese in the original audio. When Ocean Studios dubbed it, they kept that intact.
honestly considering learning japanese just to read the original source material to avoid the claws of localization
It is a hard thing to learn. When you get to Kanji it'll seem daunting, but do not surrender if you go down this route, you'll need to be passionate or just excited to learn new things.
@@Awakened_Mucacha reading kanji is like describing an image.
Well... About that
yup rn i learn indonesian malaysian and jappanese to understand vtubers just like you
I do recommend it, it'll be pretty hard once you delve further in. But I suggest you start with Hiragana and Katakana, think about writing Kanji later. 😅
The only time that I feel translators should be allowed to be slightly looser is when translating idioms, culturally distinct metaphors or wordplay (puns etc.). At all other times they should be translating as close to original meaning as possible, without adding anything extra.
Also wanted to note that sometimes it might not always be the translator doing the bastardising- it may be the editor.
PS: the mangaka/illustrator on the left is Nishizawa 5mm-sensei, who designed Nene from Hololive.
I disagree. Idioms should not be localized. That is simply disrespecting the culture.
She designed Nee-neechi!? Truly a woman of culture.
@@danielantony1882 I think they mean it more in the that if the idiom literally can't be translated into English properly without it sounding just completely off. Just as an example, where I'm from there's an idiom/curse a person will say when they're upset over something, but the actual translation of it to English would be "Grandma's shoe!", which, yeah, doesn't sound right in English at all for what it's supposed to be.
And as for things like puns/wordplay, they once again heavily rely of the language of origin, and often just don't translate well.
oni chichi
@@thexvthmember4910 your sister
I miss the days of fan subs that would actually leave certain words in Japanese (but English characters) because the words were so well known among fans and would just add short notes explaining jokes that non-Japanese would likely not understand. Examples of some of this would be oni-chan, baka, itadakimasu, and other words that are turned into weeb memes. As for the notes I remember a few fan subs I watched a while ago that pointed out puns that only work in Japanese, stating the Japanese word for X is very similar to the word for Y or X characters name sounds like the word for Y so this other character is mocking them by purposely saying it incorrectly.
it brings back the memory when i was a Redrawer in a Scanlator i work with before...
I remember when we handle the "AKUMETSU" manga series.
We had a Translator that don't like few dialogue from the MC in AKUMETSU manga series, and he wanted to change it to make it more morally ok...
Our Editor replied to him and say: "Just leave... we'll find another translator."😂
Our Editor doesn't give two shit whatsoever our Translator wanted to say.
-Aigis rim case close enough just barely
-Cowboy Bebop LA this isn't even writing a wrong this is just burning something to the ground and dancing on it.
-Trails Cold Steel how to discredit and make your job a joke in 5 seconds flat. (Fun Fact: Sexual/Erotic humor exists in all countries we are all guilty of it. To the point there is an entire genre called sex comedy.)
Wait what did they touch on trails of cold steel
@@konekoun3743 Maby it could be some lines with olivert cuz he is very flirty to both guy and gals but honestly idk, the trails series is far more tame on lude stuff than even persona.
Keep in mind that Nisa didn't have the full say on localizing CS3 since...
1: They in pretty bad hot water with the fans with Ys8
2: Falcom (the developer) had a strict guide line with the translation so it' possibul some of the cencorship could have been from falcom not nisa. (I could be very wrong so don't quote me on that)
3: The fan service/harem elements in CS was disliked by both western and even Jp fans. The 2 games after CS4 tone down a lot of it.
But hey thats my ted talk and the other examples are way more apperent on intent.
I feel bad for the hairs health, too much dye can make you go bald.
That won't stop them from trying to dye their skinhead
Isn't there organic options? Cheaper, even?
I wouldn't mind repeating use
Who says them going bald is a bad thing? I'd rather them be bald than having the weird and stupid haircuts they have.
To be fair he's not doing anything good with the hair he does have so going bald might be doing him a favor.
They need to stop dying their hair. I am bald and I love it. I don't need those fucking weirdos ruining baldness next.
Been learning Japanese lately because I'd like to visit Japan once in my life, but this almost makes me want to try to get into the translation game so I could do it right
I hope this goes well for you, man
The blue haired dude in the thumbnail triggers my fight or flight response
It's my genuine love for Japanese culture and language that I'm training to become a translator. But it's people like these (the ones shown in the video) that make me ashamed to admit I want to become one
@@dinamothupi996 thank u. My mentality is that I need to make it understandable for others. Not change the message a text is convaying
0:42 - This doesn't even have the excuse of "We didn't have an equivalent term/word for this".
@Happiness Show I think it's referring to non-binary gender stuff.
@Happiness Show It doesn't. The localizer just wanted to add in representation that originally wasn't there.
i said it once before, but japan NEEDS to put in the contract that you are only allowed to make direct translations, except when a direct translation wont carry the same weight. either translate it how they say it, or you dont get to touch it.
That’s basically what Anno did for NGE when Netflix did the subs.
They should've done that when they dubbed Pokemon
@@chinyang1200 and sonic x, and one piece
4kids dubs in general were dogshit
This is why I'm earnestly learning Japanese as best as I can. I want to buy so much manga raw from Japan and read it in peace
based
0:43
I read "binaries" and was thinking computer science. Lucky me.
Exactly! I was confused before reading a comment mentioning it.
"Filosofia Gaming" is a spanish youtube channel, but often tweets in english
It's a channel similar to this and often reaches to the same conclusions about the censorship/puritan culture we see these days
Even if you don't understand spanish, you can watch the guy and be filled with determination, he's your average chad anime/gaming enjoyer
Translators/localizers should mostly only change dialogue in cases where the original text just won't translate. For example, puns or wordplay in Japanese that obviously won't work in a different language.
The only other reason would be for pop culture references that wouldn't be understood outside the country.
The OG Neon Genesis Evangelion translation versus the Netflix translation in a nutshell.
Gren was a prisoner who was subjected to medical experiments that , as he put it, damaged his endocrine system".
I have done some incidental localization for fan sites in my spare time, and I frequently had to deal with joke titles that needed to be translated into other languages. There were a few that simply had no direct translations, so I had to pick the closest word or phrase while still making the joke understandable. Still, I tried as hard as I could to keep the meaning intact, as simply doing something else would not only be factually incorrect, but disrespectful to the original writers.
Brings a whole new meaning to "lost in translation"...
Lmao the western translator guy looks like a straight up cartoon villain
I find it more disturbing how these types of people keep on finding work in popular culture industries like cartoons, comic books, manga, anime, and video games etc. And they have absolutely no love for these products and the works that they promote. While they downright slander and hate the original fans.
Righting the wongs of the anime = We actually hate anime and japanese culture and believe they are wrong and we are right.
Yeah, "righting the wrongs" implies something was wrong in the first place. And I highly doubt that was/is the case
I'll say it again, it you want a more deep-dive style look into this topic, Dimitri Monroe made an excellent video about the problems of modern localization.
Man, the manga creator in the tweet is gorgeous.
Nishizawa Mama is a really beautiful lady for god sake
People are never happy with anything 😂
especially people with a twitter account😂
Especially when Elon Musk taking away their own echo chamber.
You mean like everyone on this channel?
Some localization is just weird, like translating a ceremonial/religious thank you for the food into "Let's eat!" And some localization is just clumsy. And some localization is random but trying hard, like replacing a joke with a different joke.
But localization that is straight up lying -- that should be a firing offense at the very least.
To be fair, what even is the correct translation of that one?
🌸😹It must be uttered of the thumbnail “it is quite a doozy”.😹🌸
I wish Star Wars fans were like Anime fans in this regard. But instead of being loyal to the creator, we complain when he has it to the series he made changes something from a book he probably never knew existed. Then Disney came and the hate got worse ... but that's a story for another time
That guy on the thumbnail hurts my eyes STOP THAT PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO SEE THAT
Gren was literally my favourite character in Cowboy Bebop, and that's saying something with how many great characters that anime has.
To see him (yes him, he still identifies as a man after everything that happened to him) get so mistreated in the Netflix adaptation is honestly disgusting. To those that did that and felt "proud" about "fixing" the character, I hope you never have a platform to be creative again.
As a Japanese man myself, I love it when Japanese jokes don’t translate well at all and nobody understands the context
I had no idea 13 Sentinels also got hit with this, that sucks! I also that that Okino saying the lines shown in the video were oddly forced
Evil cannot create, it can only subvert.
"Ooohh ohhhhhhh I'm gonna, I'm gonna LOOOOOCAAAALIZE"
What's awful isn't just that they're bad at their jobs, but that they're so openly PROUD about how bad they are. They have no desire in being accurate.
The big problem with this is how diverse American culture is. You're going to have vastly different values and opinions from one city/state to the next. You can't possibly localize foreign media for "American values" because there isn't a single culture here.
“Western audiences just have different values” then why is anime popular in the west?
This is one of the many reason to learn japanese.
Your job is to let me read what the Japanese author said, not twist their words into yours
_Censors our media_
At least it's not the government
Having just finished watching Mirai Nikki, the zooming shot of Yuno Gasai's face as you asked us to like an subscribed filled me with a sort of building horror in the memory of that character.
Pov: when you are non-american, Japanese culture enthusiast but can't read Japanese, and your only available legal option was heavily edited localized american version of the original.
America stop it. Just translate is as it is. Stop translating out of context, I did not get your culture and also please stop changing the character name into your employee's name.
I wish localizers were true fans who would instead push for adding Japanese honorifics into the english subs, like what fansubbers often do. I'm not sure if it would work for dubs as well, but I'd like to see that happen, too. So far it looks like the people who get power are the people who want power the most, rather than people who care, be it Anime or stuff in general. "If you want to judge a human's character, give them power."
I've been noticing this a lot in translated Japanese games. I hate it. Nothing but propaganda. Am I the only one who sees this as disrespectful towards the Japanese creators as well?
When fan translations are more faithful to the source material than the official ones that are paid
in my personal opinion the only times where the translation shouldn't be accurate is if it's a joke that only makes sense in japan, but don't completely change the context but instead make it a very similar joke translated
Like the comedy anime BoBoBo, that one had so many Japanese in jokes that the English Dub had to make their own jokes that would still fit in those scenes.
Example: Japanese version, character make a joke about Natto
English version, "By the way those beans have spider webs in them"
I have 2 things to say about this:
1. Anine become popular through piracy, fansubbers were translating the best they can to bring the original dialogs to the west, so we could say Anime is popular because it's different from western media
2. Today translators don't realize, or don't care, that they are behaving like some sort of angry parents committee from the 90's, they are no different from those who decided to censor the lesbians characters in Sailor Moon in the US, and I bet they did it back then because "the west has other values"...
Fair enough
I didn’t know Sailor Moon had lesbians in it but thinking about it now I can see it.
What really bothers me is that these guys get paid to do their jobs BADLY.. I don't understand how this is a thing.
Ok so from what I understand, guy makes anime in Japanese, English translator dude doesn't think it'll be good for English audiences, translator dude just changes the whole thing.
Japanese companies should be allowed to sue for willing mistranslations or "fixing" their stuff
Localizers wonder why people hate them
It is a fact that some things are going to get lost in translation. Idioms are a good example of something that might not make sense even if translated accurately. The key is, as Hero Hei said, to be as accurate and authentic as possible. That might mean trying to find something equivalent that isn't precisely identical, and sometimes that's even okay. Personally I'd prefer it if we got more stuff like those OG fansubs of Gintama back in the day that all those great notes, though.
Well, I'm working on a Light Novel, and what you said is simply false. Idioms aren't hard to translate. You just need a longer sentence.
@@danielantony1882 Really? So a non-native English speaker is going to understand the _meaning_ of something like "cutting corners" or "you can say that again" through literal translation alone? I don't buy it.
@@iDEATH It's not literal translation. It's called Extended Explanatory translation. There's a reason Translation notes exist. Misinforming people about Idioms is the last thing you want to do.
@@iDEATH Also, cutting corners is not hard to translate. Sure, a few things about the word "Cut"' get lost in translation but that's what Translation Notes are for. And I'm sure you understand that. My only complaint is when localization gets too loose and stretches to the point where we get straight misinformation. A good example is Re:Zero. The Russian subs for it are so bad that they managed to localize "Legend" as "Anecdote", even though the word legend is a very common and respected thing in Russian. What we get is people thinking Banan's Legend was anecdotal when it was, in fact, more serious than you can imagine.
@@danielantony1882 I think we actually agree, and I might see the problem. In my OP, I used "accurately" where "literally" would have been more precise.
By the way, the mangaka on the left at the beginning is Nishizawa 5mm, known famously for being a large breasted woman who draws stories about large breasted women. She's also the illustrator for Hololive's Momosuzu Nene, and deliberately added an underboob glory hole to the idol's costume.
Stuff like this is why i went out of my god damn way to lean Japanese in the first place.
If most people who watch anime can understand the language said then there would be no need for translators in the first place.
If it's too hard for you to learn, don't worry. Just keep watching subs instead of dubs. Eventually you'll start to pick up some words, then phrases, whole sentences and by the time you know it you'll be halfway to learning the actual language already.
It's not uncommon you know. People who migrate to non English speaking countries often learn the language by observation and interaction and we anime lover do that anyway. You are aware you're consuming foreign media right? Don't worry you're awesome.
Am actually considering to learn 1 hour of japanse each day because of this,since i already have about a dozen not to mention while I can't give a translation ,nowdays i can even understand what they are saying.
P.S: i can't explain how i understand without being able to translate ,it just works somehow.
@@ambulancekun3142 the brain really function in mysterious ways
that's why fansubs are life
I remember Funimation getting their hands thoroughly slapped over trying this kinda crap with their subs and dubs. Monica Rial was once the worst proponents for puritanization of properties. She ended up having to voice the titular Uzaki-chan to get the hounds to back off after saying repeatedly she wanted to torpedo the series or completely redirect the dub. It's a sacred trust between content creators and the sub/dub/localization teams in which the creator is putting their hard work into the hands of the localizer in good faith that they will not ruin the concepts and story as the creator presented it. It's understandable that there are some things that localizer might change, especially in a dub, to better help the audience take the material on such as pop culture references or historical figure reference points BUT never the key concepts and core story. I still remember when anime and manga was a super niche and small community, we welcomed new people with open arms to share the thing we loved but like a lot of western franchises we ended up inviting in the SJW and agenda wolves that can't enjoy anything if it isn't specially for them and under the direct and total control. At some point it became less about broadening the community and being inclusive through growth and more about gatekeeping and dominance empowered by some twisted sense of righting wrongs that have nothing to do with the community in the first place.
Who’s the pretty author? And her manga looks familiar
nishizawa-sensei if im correct
Dear god that video game comparison at the start. The one on the right was perfect. It got the point across in as few lines as possible.
The image on the left is word vomit.
That's what these people are and all they can talk, word vomit.
Pretty much, so stupid & unnecessary with how they handle localization. But that’s modern day Sega/Atlus of America for ya.
Don’t have any faith they’ll do a good job with Soul hackers 2 localization either.
I think it makes sense for localizers to change stuff to make it more understandable on different cultures, that aspect of translation exists for a reason. There are two problem however, first, they obviously change stuff that don't need localizing, and do it to moralize instead of adapt; and second, anime is consumed (mostly) by weebs who understand, to some extent, the Japanese's culture, so it would be much more efficient and productive to make direct translations and include an * to indicate the origin of stuff that might not make sense outside of Japan.
@Fhorres Daekeut When comedies are translated to Spanish they would change stuff like wordplays, usually for another wordplay, to keep the comedic intend that would be lost if translated directly. The point of localization is to keep the intent, when done correctly obviously.
It is also done when there is a cultural equivalent, like changing the date of the independence day to the independence day of the target country (saying 4 of july could mean nothing to the viewer).
Don’t give people that hate you your money, ever.
0:44 Ultimate edition imo would be
This is more convenient for me. It lets me hide the fact that I'm even alive.
I definitely agree with you. When it comes down to a official translation they should translate it pretty much word for word, or as close as they can get. And if they want to change stuff about it based on what they feel is right or wrong then they should do a podcast or a tweet so they can still get their feeling about the show and ideas they had to change it instead of disappointing western fans by straight up changing it because they felt like it would "fit that part better"
I personally prefer keeping the spirit of the text instead of directly translating everything exactly as it is. It can also lead to confusion as some things won’t make sense if they’re directly translated.
@@theatheistbear3117 Oh, I guess you're right, just yesterday I was watching the final episode of an anime, and for some reason it did have direct translation, like word for word, and it didn't make much sense so I had to do a lot of guessing. So I agree that the spirit of the text is really important
@@Gameguy207 It’s really understated just how important this is. Books that are translated directly don’t give you the same writing style as the author’s, and will if anything be incredibly bland. I can attest to this as a non-native speaker having read English books translated into Dutch. They’re generally not that great, nor good.
Language is a way of communication, and communicating the ideas of the story is important. A great scene can be ruined by direct translation.
@@theatheistbear3117 So long story short: its a careful balancing act, the art of translation.
@@MegaManJake Pretty much. The translations that are officially backed by the author (such as Tolstoy did for War & Peace) as the intended way to read the story in English are rare.
lol never expected to see Filosofía Gaming here he is an Argentinian content creator, and usually questions all that SJW bs
Is anybody on Twitter ever happy about anything?
Nope
Unless their happy with attacking artists then no they're not happy
Back before the “Great Chinese Cough” I had heard the Kodawa studios was interested in opening up their own studio/publishing company in the west to allow for more accurate translation of their LN, Manga, and Anime. Though this was all before Tencent got their hands on some shares.
As a translator I am appalled by the self insert views that some American translators forcefully include into their works! We are taught to be as faithful as we can in order to convey the message.
this is why people prefer jp dubs then eng dubs because people who translate it just don't understand it should be an accurate translation and not because u simply get offended. It makes everyone misunderstand how the anime truly is.
But they can't understand the jp dub and are reading someone's translation. You're still at the mercy of how the translator interprets the original.
That and the voice acting in English dubs has gotten bad over the years. The last anime known to have a well loved English dub was Assassination Classroom. I do think the Uzaki-Chan isn't bad but the jokes seem to land better in the sub version.
Honestly, the localization of games bothers me moreso than anime. I know a little bit of Japanese from watching anime and studying a bit over the years, so I can usually tell when the subtitles don't match, But a lot of Jgames aren't fully voiced, and I'm not really at the level were I can read Japanese at a decent pace (If Japanese text is even an option). I can't tell you how many times I've been playing a JRPG and noticed lines, or even entire scenes that don't match the spoken dialogue at all. And that's to say nothing about the ones I didn't notice.
As a GenderFluid person, not everything needs to be LGBTQ+
Be normal
@@bb_ue rude , personally I don't agree with trans/gay people however it's their choice leave them to it.
I will however not be nice to someone who doesn't do the same to me.
@@ambulancekun3142 Okay?
@@bb_ue I hate you
@@bb_ue "be normal" what does that refer to exactly , while i agree on this point , I don't agree to tell it to someone it's their choice after all.
People on Twitter are not ok with anything. Honestly being on Twitter is one of the worst things you could do for your mental health
Once I heard a japanese woman say
"it's always the ugly ones that complain!"
Isn't it cultural appropriation to take another culture's material and make it culturally acceptable in your culture?
Why... WHY WOULD YOU CHANGE THE WHOLE IP?! WHAT THE HELL?! Isn't this grounds for international suing? Is there any legal action developers and authors can take against localization companies?
They probably can but nobody tells them this.
Honestly, they could have had a pretty interesting side plot of an episode if they had Gren interact with a pre-op Trans-woman and have them discuss the differences of their situations. Like have Gren say something like, "Where we differ, is that I was comfortable in the body I was born in, and they took that away from me." That could be genuinely good.
Imagine looking at the person on the right and thinking "Puritan." The absolute state of this hemisphere.
every single day twitter somehow manages to get caught in 4K 🤨📸
That guy's hair looks like a mint flavoured cotton candy. I just wonder who the heck is brave enough to walk outside with food as your hair.
(This is just a joke, don't take it seriously)
My sauerkraut-hair feels offended by your comment. I'm gonna throw a hashtag to cancel you on Twitter, as any sane human being should 😤
@@SuhiroSenpai NOOOOO! MY FOLLOWER BASE! (Not that I have any in the first place but still, those 3 to 4 people are important to me)
They aren't brave, they're delusional. They think only about themselves thats why the inject their ideology into everything they do to normalize their garbage.
A normal person who has to translate something literally just translates what is right there. They have no reason to alter it for they are content with themselves.
weebs really like to joke about someone's appearance like it's funny yet when it happens to you you cry about it like babies just hypocrites
I say this every time I hear a story like this, but the woke bastardization of Japanese works is one of the reasons why I'm learning the language.
finally a ningga who understand
"Westerners have different values."
Kinda like the westerners have the values of a donut and an onigiri is offensive to them.
(I know it's not the same thing, but what I'm getting at is stop changing crap for the sake of changing crap. If you have a problem with the original anime then give it to someone else that can respect the anime and release it exactly how it is in the original form.
I'm saying anime, but I should more say ANYTHING Japanese related.
Anime, manga, games, whatever.
Kind of glad in a way that Konami stopped making actual Ganbare Goemon games. Imagine if they made a new game and the villain Bismaru came back.
(For those that don't know the series, Bismaru is a transsexual nun from the future that's a descendant of one of the main heroes, Ebisumaru... which also been hinted on originally being a girl and changed into a guy as a joke. They wouldn't take kindly of that joke these days.)
This is why I like fansubs. Fans actually care about the original source and rarely change things up.
As a translator I'm disgusted by this "translation". God forbid I change the meaning of my source text to fit my views. My job is to translate and adapt from one language to another, nothing more, nothing less. Granted, I usually translate documents, but still. Disgusting :(
Honestly, this is why I wanna learn Japanese, I can watch anime without worrying about all this crap. Like, don't change the meanings, it messes up the anime/manga and ruins it for everyone.