Sorry have to disagree. SB's gain ratio calculator is the 1. Crank length and tire size should part of the equation and it avoids the rather dated term 'Gear inches' which is so 19th century it predates the roller chain and the safety bicycle, ie its a reference to 'Ordinaries'. Other than that i agree with where PLP's heart is. Ive been running a Sugino super compact (48/30) on my CX for at least 5 years before gravel chainsets were a thing.
If you’re putting tons of miles on a bike there’s a valid argument that the pinion will pay for itself with significantly longer mileage between drivetrain component replacements. The pinion isn’t perfect though and comes with its own set of pros/cons. It’s a big jump with big $$$ upfront and unfortunately very few demo bikes.
I'm hoping there will someday be a pinion equivalent that can fit in a standard threaded BB shell, so I could drop it into any of my bikes (I'd have to use a chain instead of a belt drive but that'd be okay.) It'd be tricky to design but so darn cool.
A couple years ago there was a youtube interview with the guy behind Starling Cycles UK. He's a smart guy with an aerospace r&d background. He's been building mtbs around gearboxes and said in the interview he thinks the major players are likely ready to move if the market shifts - thinking they have products designed and ready. I thought he might be optimistic but Shimano (around the time) had patented a design that would cost less than anything currently available. Selling a bike designed around gearbox technology would seemingly would be targeted at the sport segment. Mtbs use gear ranges that make sense for many bikes. If there were several brands seriously marketing lines if bikes like Priority does the big players might have to jump in. I'm not holding my breath but I'm also tired of maintaining my 10 and 11sp derailleur systems. As I wrote this it dawned on me that the change might already be happening. E-bikes being what's steering the market has a segment with gearboxes that could be leading the way. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@m.talley1660 mid drive e-mtb and gearboxes just make sense. It's been done already, pinion makes a 12 speed electric motor & gearbox combo called MGU. The major drawbacks as mentioned are weight but also reliance on electronics. I like that regular pinion boxes offer cable or electronic shifting but the MGU is electronic shifting only. Sort of a requirement now with e-bikes that things are shifting to electronics.
I've been running 50,34 on my 9spd Soma Double Cross for a long time and found myself being stuck between the 2 chainrings trying to find the right gear. Recently I built a single speed set up as 42/18, then i realized a 42,26 setup would be perfect for my ablity. Now I'm 90% on my big ring and only drop down on hard climbs and headwind.
I run a 1x set up on my double cross. 44t chain ring and 11-42 cassette. For me the 42t on the cassette is the bail out. I do some chunky single track climbs on it without trouble. If I was going to do some super long steep climbs it would install a small 30t narrow wide on the front and do a manual shift (stop and move the chain by hand) when needed. This would work with a mtb crankset or a road triple
you did a great job explaining why the double works for you, but i love my 11-42 cassette and 24/34/46 chainrings. i use an altus m310 rear derailleur and shift friction. the derailleur doesn’t quite take up all that chain, but like you i avoid cross chaining so there have been no issues with capacity
I've run 3x on all my bikes for over 40 years. On my 3x10 bikes, I treat the shifting like having 3 - 1x setups. I'll run the big ring (44t) on the flat pavement to and from the local mountains. When I hit the foothills, I drop into the middle ring (32t). When I hit the dirt, I drop into the small ring (20t). On my typical ride, I only shift the FD 3 times. I'm pushing the RD 11t past the max. cog size and 13t past is max. takeup and it shifts great. I like the chain line in the small and large rings. I generally only use the top or bottom half of the cassette when in those rings. I grew up on a 2x5 setup with a wide range freewheel, for the time (14-34). On that bike, almost every shift was a double shift. I had a gearing chart taped to the stem. I carried that chart over to my 3x10 bikes, but decided it was no longer needed with the closer ratios on the 10sp cassettes.
My first triple was home made. Got a cog off an old freehub, drilled five holes, got some screws and nuts and the FD was able to reach it by opening the stop.
@@jack002tuberwell done! Me too😂 used roofing screws for the the rounded heads and nuts for spacing, works just fine, I can agree that a wide range 2x beats a 1x but close range 2x is shite and an extra small cog fixes that
Thanks for explaining that, the visual explanation was really helpful. I would have stuck to a 3x setup for touring, but i can see the sense in a well chosen 2x mow.
3x makes sense with 9 or lower cassette sprocket count, where the range from the cassette is impossible without huge gaps between the gears. With 10, and especially 11 sprocket cassettes giving wider range but with usable jumps between the cogs, the extra range offered by 3x is unnecessary/excessive and is added complication for little benefit (for most scenarios anyway).
Inspired by the series, i made the switch from 1x11 to a 2x10 with a similar setup (11-43 Cues in the back, 40-26 Cues in the front, GRX400 the rest). Haven't been able to ride it yet because of weather, but can't wait to try it out!
I prefer 1x just for the ease of use. I have a pretty easy ratio, sometimes i miss some gears on the downhills if i really want to push my speed, and i have never had any issues going uphill, my easiest gear is 38-52.
I've got friction shifting 2x (36/24, 11-42) on my heavy-ish drop bar, bikepacking Salsa Fargo. It's a great range for what it's meant for, lots of climbing with a load and crunchy terrain. Even though I enjoy that setup, I'm building a lighter weight road/gravel bike with a 1x because I know that 520% range is just where i want it for the riding it'll do. I also love the pretty garbaruk 10-52 cassettes and clean look of the 1x. It'll be great with the UNO too 😁
20 years ago I switched my 3x MTBs to 2x by taking off the big ring. 24/36 with an 11-34 cassette was plenty for off road. One of the things I liked about 3x on the road,however, was that it worked like a ring for climbing, one for going along and one for descending. Really cut down on front shifts. And closer jumps between chainrings. I'm not sure I'd be happy running an 18t difference between 2 chainrings, I find even 16t to be a big jump.
With a wide range cassettes you aren’t jumping back and forth like you are with a 3x. 95% of the time is spent on the big ring and the inner is used only on anything really steep.
I just screwed in my limit screw and ground off the teeth on the 46 or 48 outer. Instant double with chainguard. Subsequently went up from 36 to 40 middle.
Great nerding out! I run a 3x on my cargo bike and I find it suits well the purpose of that bike: carrying a kid mostly on flat and occasionally up a steep hill. In the end it’s like a truck. Numbers: 42-32-22 with an 11-32 9 speed at the back. The rear tire is a 45mm 650b. On the new gravel, which should also see some steep hill from the top down, I’m using a wide-range double made out of a triple crankset (thanks for the idea BTW) 48-34 on a 11-42 11 speed -the derailleur is a long cage XT of the first four digit series, which does the whole range (barely: 48-42 is really a stretch) and the tires are 57mm 650b. It should cover the range I need, but I got sick just after finishing the bike and couldn’t ride for three months, just began commuting (with another bike) again this Monday… Note: use road double front derailleurs for wide range double, preferably, and not recent MTB triples: the shape of the cage of these latter ones may be unable to shift some small chainrings.
That’s. Great gear tool. For people in my income bracket it’s generally about choosing the right gearing when buying a bike and occasionally making small changes to an existing setup. I missed the whole 1x craze because I only buy bikes about once a decade or so. (Well except the 3 I bought since 2020 … but that’s another story).
Great review Russ. Thanks. On the triples, you could set them up like the old touring set ups that were basically fairly close middle and big rings with a small bail out granny. Also the older 3 by mountain triples with 22-32-42 could be an option. Personally I like doubles on my road and gravelish bikes. However on my 26" wheeled mountain bike I run a Shimano XT triple with 22-30-40 and a 11-36 cassette. I use the middle and big a lot and have the 22 as a bail out for tough climbs.
Ross, another fantastic, helpful video. Thanks for all the work. Just for the sake of sharing, I have been running a 3x9 setup, using off the shelf components w/o any extenders, or other hacks which gives me a 15-111 gear inch range (727%) with a 700Cx40 tires. I am exceeding the RD Cap Max by 6 teeth ( RD is 45, and my setup is 51), but with a moderate B-Screw adjustment ( NO crazy screwing the B-Screw all the way in ), I have not had any issues, and shifting is quite crisp. 22/32/44 -- 104/64 BCD Crankset (FC-t4060) 11-40, 9 speed Cassette ( Sunrace CSM980) Deore RD-M592 SGS Rear Derailleur FD-T6000 Front Derailleur Shimano SL-BS77 Bar end shifter in Index mode 140 Link Chain ( My CS length is 445)
Flat out a GREAT vid, thanks, was not aware of this bike gear calculator! Still a triple(3x10) guy but this does cause me take a look the wide range 2x.
One of the very few channels I didn't skip the ad ^_^ Maybe I will on the next video, but this time the brand was new to me and related to an overall theme of the channel.
I run a 3x system on my touring bike and tbh I don’t use the big ring much, whereas I use a 2x on my mountain bike and I use most of the gears, so I’ll look to swop out the 3x in the future. A useful video and gear calculator.
On my Paronama Forillion , I had 30/46 and a cassette of 11/46, work great, but I had to add two chain links to be able to use 46/46, I did it to experiment a bit, now I'm looking at the Boreal from Panorama, 22/36 with a cassette of 11/45, I imagine I could go 22/40 chainring or maybe 10/46 cassette to achieve higher gear, I don't want very high gear, but it fun not to spin as soon as you are descending a small hill. Seems that going 10/46 cassette would have a bigger impact than 22/40 chainring.
Thank for the video, I didn't know about gear-calculator, nice resource to have and I'm sold on the two-by, really makes sense. Keep the useful info coming!
Loving the "gear inches" talk. I started doing this 50 years ago which really helped me know how i typically rode and to compare ratios on other gearing set ups. I then found i liked low to mid gears and spinning than pishing bigger gears.I've gone through 3x and 2x snd now 1x. I find i still prefer certain gearing for most of my riding no matter the set up. It has mostly been in a 36 front which is what my new Cutthroat has.
Rohloff speedhub 14 is the best choice for bicycle touring. Almost zero maintenance. Change oil every 5000 km and keep riding....chain does not have lateral movement and lasts longer. There is a variety of sprockets and therefore different default sprocket ratios. The hub lasts up to 100,000 km. It may sound expensive but total cost of ownership is way less than a drive train with detailers
Thanks for the gear calculator tutorial! I commute with a single speed electric and this will really help me to select a proper chainring and cog combo to maximize my fun with it in the future.
I like the manageable step between gears that running a 3x, like a 44-32-24, and an 11-36 ten speed cog on the back allows. I find I'm on the 17, 19, and 21 tooth cogs most all the time. The step is easier between them compared to the rest of the cog and it helps me maintain a cadence I'm most comfortable with. Those are my sweet spot gears no matter what big ring I'm on at the front - and I do use all 3 rings. But like you, the 'bail out' gear is the most important with the 3x bike with the 24 on front and 36 on the back.
Looks like you forgot to link the playlist. I am interested in broadening the range of a well chosen 2x setup, but would prefer to stick with index shifting on drop bars. I'm new to this sort of thing, so learning the compatibility of bits and bobs, and what components works with what is daunting! My current bike is 50/34 up front, and 11-36 12S cassette, Shimano 105. I have ordered a new GRX crankset in 46/30 along with a matching FD. But, I'm also now contemplating building a Fairlight Secan and would like a broader range that suits my style. And, I have no idea where to start in picking the components. I'm watching and learning, so hopefully one day I'll wrap my head around it all... Thanks for what you do!
I’m a bit of a partial 2x convert lately. I put together a really awesome setup for my new Lynskey GR300 with the idea that it could really handle anything I’ll be doing on it: replacing my more traditional road bike and taking over on offroad rides from my 90s MTB (which can now be a more dedicated commuter). Sword 48/31 crankset paired with an 11-40t 11s cassette and GRX 810 rear derailleur. It’s absolutely perfect for an all purpose drivetrain for me given that I like to go fast but I also like climbing steep PNW hills. Because the best part of climbing the hill is getting to bomb back down. Anyway I still love my trusty 1x11 (42t + 11-46t) and for commuting it’s great not having a front derailleur to think about. It goes low enough for most anything and doesn’t spin out too badly on descents. But man am I loving my 2x lately. Just frustrated at how hard it was to find an affordable 2x crankset that goes low enough for normal people to ride normal terrain but also pushes the gear spread out as much as possible given some of the really high capacity RDs like the GRX810 that can handle it.
This is exactly what I have been exploring for the last year on my road and touring bikes. My road bike is Di2 so I’m limited to certain derailleurs which makes things more challenging. I was exploring cassettes from e*thirteen and hit a road block as the hub on my ZIPP wheels was not compatible with XD drivers. After some hunting on eBay for used parts the bike has a 9-46 cassette and a 46/34t cranks with a Garbaruk cage extender. It’s great that there are so many cassette options but finding a derailleur combination that works can be challenging and possibly expensive. I would appreciate a follow-up video discussing this challenge. Also shifter/derailleur pulls can also muddy the water. Great show! Keep them coming.
Kind of my reaction... Does a drivetrain I'd want actually have the options he's depicting on the gear calculator without doing some sort of hack? As far as I've seen the answer has been no.
I got inspired watching this video only to find world crashing down upon me. First to get a 10-52t cassette you have to go 12 speed. My bike has 11 speeds. My chainrings are 110mm BCD 5 bolt. No one makes inner chainrings less than 34T in this configuration. No one makes outer chainrings less than 46T in this configuration. So to set up a 10-52T cassette with 30/42T chainrings I would need an all new drivetrain, cranks, and possibly new bottom bracket. Which adds up to a fair amount of cash. Let me know if you have a suggestions.
I have used a 1x4 for shopping for which it was geared quite low, it got me thinking that a 3x4 would give 12 gears with little concern for cross chaining so a wider, stronger chain could be used. Ultimately though it comes down to ratios. Great video.
Good explanation. The problem is mainly finding the crankset that allows you to have 44-42-40 and 28-26-24 chainrings. These are not standard combinations and they are generally quite expensive. The standard is rather 46-30 on the road/gravel or 38x24 in the mountains. Not to mention compatibility with the bike's bottom bracket...
Thanks Russ - this was a great comparison of the three systems. I'm definitely rethinking the gearing on my dedicated touring bike running a vintage tripple (46/36/24 I think) which definitely could have used lower gearing last summer during my tours. I think i need to ride 95 gear inches on the flat to see how it feels before I make any decisions on swapping rings on any of my bikes. I should also take a look at the gearing on my wife's touring bike and see if I can swap a smaller low ring in there for a better bail out / loaded climbing gear for her.
Russ, Avid did make a 73 BCD converter ring that bolts on a 58 BCD chainring if you want to run a 20-22 chainrings. I run a 39/26 double and it works great for a loaded rail/trail setup. I am going to try a 34/22 for a trail/mountain setup next. Keep up the great work.
When 1x was the new hot shit, I built myself a new Mtb with it, when I saw how the chain bent I got sick as a technician and switched to 2x IMMEDIATELY
I just finished setuping a 24-36 crank with a 10-50 12v cassette based on SRAM Rival 22 commands and rear derailleur using the Ratio convertion kit to 12 speeds. The main issue was the front derailleur, I used a Cues 11 speeds front derailleurs that I had to modify significantly. The front shifting is not great but it does well the bell out job ! \o/ 750% gear ratio \o/
30x with 11-42. It came with a 40t on the front which had to go. Replaced the SRAM Apex crankset with a Deore crankset. Works great with the SRAM Rivel 1. The result is 19" to 75" gear inches. I can pretty much go anywhere.
My new bike came with a sram 1x 40 10-44t. After the first ride I knew I was not gonna be happy with the range so I made it a 2x. 43/30 with a 10-44t. It shift perfectly! Although there is a little slack in the chain when running little/little which is never.
I use BGC often, I usually show the ration on top of the triangles, and the super cool thing is you can input also tire dimension, so you can see how the same transmission is changing if you change wheel and tire. It has a lot of preset commercially available cassettes etc but the library is not often updated (i.e. I don't think it has the 11-45 on the Cues) I'm building a cues based transmission but it is not 42-26, it's 40-26 and 11-45 cassette. I would love to run 42-26. Also, cues 2x smallest crank is 170mm while I would like to go 160 mm or even 155 mm.. so, I'm starting with the CUES FC-U4010 that is cheap enough and then we'll see
What is the advantage of 2x over 3x? If you’re going to have a front mech, 3x makes more sense to me. Mostly keep it in the middle ring. If you are going downhill / tailwind, put it in the big ring. If it gets steep, move to the small ring. With a 2x, which ring should you be in for average conditions? I bought an Uno bar end shifter, running 36t chainring with 10-51 Deore rear mech. Perfect for me
@@PathLessPedaledTVthanks Russ - really well explained. I used to have a triple on my previous mountain bike. The longest gears were only suitable for downhill on a smooth road with a tailwind! Way too fast!
Great video. Thanks for the content. Thanks for the tool. Just a note. 2015ish 2x10 sram mtb cranks came with 39-26 chainrings and could be run with 36 to 40 by 24 to 26 rings. With todays modern cassette choices, they are often overlooked option. A bit ugly though.
My problem with even a compact 2x is that on my triple I spend most of the day on the middle 34t for 4 pannier touring. A 40 big ring would be too large and I would have to run rather cross chained much of the time :(
Exactly. Triple is best. I'm always in the wrong gear and severely cross chained in my 2x no matter what rings i choose. Triple lets me have the ideal all around middle ring while maintaining a reserve of extreme gearing both high and low
@@VYBEKATexactly, and having a bigger main ring means you don’t hammer the 11 tooth all the time, same goes for 1x ok the top gear is just ok but the least efficient cog gets all the wear and probably a poor chain line too
Last summer I did a 1x11 to 3x11 conversion and man is it great for touring with other people, you can really dial the gear to your preferred cadence/tiredness and the speed of the group. But I agree that 2x is enough outside of this "peloton" of sorts. The FC M6000-3 10s crankset has the sliding ramps between chainrings that work great with 11s chain and seems to be the cheapest 3x11 compatible crankset available. 9 speed triples didn't work for me, the 11s chain keeps getting stuck between the chainrings.
If performance isn't the issue, why not compare that against touring gearboxes, like Alfine 11, Rohloff, or Pinion p18? Less maintenance, especially with a belt, and often a higher spread than your 2x setup. It is often more expensive, but the much reduced maintenance can make up for the cost in a long term.
They’re heavy, expensive and only work on specific frames. Alfine 11 has 406%, Rohloff 536% and a P18 636%. My typical 2x double has 620% and can be expanded to 670% at a fraction of the price and can be run on more bike frames.
@@StephanKusch I agree, I feel that this is being discounted a lot for the kind of riding advocating here. The weight gain is negligible if you are also carrying cargo on top of it and the price isn't that bad when you are putting tens of thousands of miles on your bike. You'll need to replace most of your drivetrain several times in that distance.
Love the content. I’m personally team triple. Russ could’ve adjusted the triple option for 22,32,42 which are easy and cheap to source. This would’ve given him the range he was after. You also need to shift less with a 32 middle ring, bc it’s basically the modern 1x with bailouts on both ends. Either way you roll, have fun.
No matter what you count and tell, as long as it's cheaper to make 1x bikes (and sell them for higher price than 2x) they will be better :( they are better for specific range if you are searching for versatility and cheap service 2x are in front. Really appreciate your scientific work! Thanks 👍
I have a 1x a 2x and a 3x bike. I kind of like the simplicity of the 1x but cross chaining really is an issue, you need a giant weird cassette to get the range and I don’t get the popularity of it because of this. In particular applications where conditions are highly prescribed like a time trial race I get it, plus some mountain biking situations where efficiency isn’t the biggest factor. 3x has enormous range but I have to keep mental track of what’s going on plus there is overlap and duplication/redundant gears. It’s also heavier and not the easiest to set up sometimes. 2x is just a happy medium. You can get away with 2x with a 10 cog cassette too.
I’m in the same boat as you Russ. Running 38/24T in front and a 9 speed 11-34T cassette (friction shifting). Higher gears are not needed (I’d rather be coasting), lower than 24/34 is also pointless - at that speed I’d rather just walk my bike or push it uphill (easier on knees).
I use this web page all the time, and you can change "Display" to Gear Inches if you want! No, gear inches really don't make any logical sense, but they're a useful number. I used it to help me move from a 24-36-46 with 11-23 9 speed to 26-42-(chainguard) with a 11-28 11 speed. I could see that 46x12 and 42x11 were functionally identical, so I went a few months without using my 46x11, didn't miss it, so I knew the new setup would work fine. I've had the new setup for almost 2 years now, and honestly, I rarely use the 42x11 anyway, even though it's a lower high gear. With a modified triple, the "new middle big ring" (42) works well enough with the entire range. It's a "one by with O.S.G" (Oh Shoot! gears) in practice. I only shift the front if I'm going up one of the big hills, and will go on a lot of rides without ever touching the front derailleur at all.
My Salsa Journeyman came with a 2x. I hated it. It could never stay on the chainring unless I was in a very low or high gear. Got it adjusted several times at shops and it never worked. I took it all off and went to a 1x and it is so much better. Stays locked in all day, only one derailleur, and I only gave up 2 speeds, the highest and lowest. The 3x on my road bike and MTB are useful for the rarer occasions where I’m going really fast or slow uphill. My gravel bike is really just a commuter or slower road bike on bigger tires. I rarely spin out the gears.
I don’t get the gear inch thing. I have a 46/30 two by and a 40/12 cassette. The most important combo for me is the high gear so a ratio is simple for me. 30 over 40 is 0.75. So if I want an easy climbing combo I’ll need a lower ratio. 🤷♂️
In the process of switching to hydro disc but stay mechanical shifting. Bike is sram 1x 11 long cage with 42t max. Thinking of going ratio tech cage for the 52t cog but seeing if I can go 2x as well for better range options.
maybe you covered it and I missed it Russ, but there's a limit to the teeth differential with the front rings isn't there? how does the derailleur deal with the distance in "height?" not saying I want to run a 50-22 in the front, but at what point do you need to consider that?
I’m not sure what the limit is. The stated limit for most is 16t differential. I’ve run a 44-26 before with a standard road front derailleur and it worked. 3x derailleurs work with a wide tooth differential.
@@PathLessPedaledTVI had some bad experiences with some recent MTB triples: the shape of the cage made it difficult to get out of the small ring. No problems with road doubles (48-34). I think the limit, at the end of the day, is set by the length of the cage…
The 1x crowd will argue that you save weight when you lose the front mech, but I'd be curious to see a weight comparison between a dinner plate 12/13 1x setup vs an equivalent range 2x (I know Russ isn't concerned about weight but it's still a valid point of discussion) Personally, the cross chain issue alone would be enough to get me to stick with 2x even if the increased gear inch range weren't a real thing. Anyway, it's a shame that there aren't any rear mechs that can shift an 11-52 on a 2x! Wouldn't that be dope.
I still prefer 3x because of the big jump with 2x. Currently on 44-34-24 with 11-43 CUES 10-speed (720%) all friction shift. I'd like to change to 11-45 11-speed which has really nice gear spacings (750%).
There’s something that I’ve been wondering about. This is all hypothetical of course. Let’s say we have a crank of whatever length. We have an 11 tooth gear cog and an 11 tooth chainring; that gives us a 1:1. Now, we also have a 52 tooth cog with a 52 tooth chainring; also giving us a 1:1. Would the pedal effort be the same between these two scenarios or would one setup be easier/harder to pedal than the other?
Just ride a fixie for a week and you'll appreciate a 3 speed. LOL Age and conditioning should be considered into the equation. Since you're party pace anyway, a little e-assist might be another option, could save the day making waypoints, and help with illness/injuries (Check out Cade media's recent tours.) My new 1by MTB's 30/51 was so low (slow) that balancing was an issue (no flow,) and I can track stand fairly well. Some guy in a yellow jersey even rode a 1by last year. I enjoyed this video because it showed me how little I was missing. I still REALLY REALLY want a belt drive though!
Hey Russ, what's that gorgeous first 2x crankset, and how do I get one? That chain guard is so much more attractive than the one on the Sugino Super Maxy.
I have a stock 1x on my Midnight Special. There are a ton of hills where I ride, so I plan on doing a 2x. 1x is really limited on climbs and even run out of gear on the top end. My bike is also heavy, I need the help haha
@jsca470 Yes, I think the fork too. I got it down to 26 US pounds without fender and lighter wheels, but with fenders on for winter and other small extras it's about as much as a hardtail mtb. Still my favorite bike it's really zippy.
@jsca470 Yep, I see that now. I must have misread! Surly lists the fork weight 1254g or 2.75 us pounds. No frameset weight, but a complete 56 on the new 700c MS is 27 pounds. Stock wheels are heavy. My build doesn't have any carbon either. A Soma, Ritchey, or maybe Sim Works new all road frame I'd consider, but right now I'm enjoying the MS. Cheers
Changing my setup from an 18.4 gear inches low to a 17.4 gear inches (change from 600% gear range to 607% gear range) would cost about $100. Can you feel the difference of 1 gear inch? Worth it or not?
I use a 44/24 up front and 11-34 9 speed out back. do I use the highest/lowest gear that much? No, but this ratio keeps me in the middle of my cassette for most of my riding.
2x makes the most sense for the most people: easier to set up, with wider range and lower gearing. The one argument I'll make for 3x is that you can use a cassette with smaller jumps between gears. Maybe I'm just sensitive, but it's easier to find smaller cassettes with fewer 17% jumps between gears. Other than that, 3x is harder to find, heavier, harder to set up, and harder to find shifters for. Even so, I love my 3x bike.
The efficiency of a big chainrings chain wrap shouldnt be discounted, it saves you a few watts, obviously more negligible as the cassette teeth decrease
I prefer 1X for Mountain and Gravel bike when riding off road and hilly terrain and with a loaded bike you don’t need to go too fast. I like 2X for a Road bike when I want to go faster and more efficient on a longer ride with mostly flat terrain. The only do it all drivetrain is a 3X IMHO .
Yeah but then I have to shift with my left hand. 😢 (Obviously kidding) And one more benefit of 2x is you get the same (or better) gear gaps as 1x12 with a more durable chain. I ride 2x10, 2x12 and 1x12 and while the 2x10 on my gravel bike is the lowest spec, it’s the bike I service the least and takes the most beating with the most miles. A lot of people say this is BS, but my own personal experience has shown that 10 speed chain and cassettes wear much much slower than systems with skinnier chains and less tolerance. And shimanos chain wear recommendation interval is also twice as long for 10 speed vs 11 speed. So there’s that. If I could only have one bike that I needed to ride regularly, it would be a 10 or 9 speed double system. It just simplifies your maintenance.
@@mexmiler my cassette is about 2500 km, the smallest cog looks like new. It happens not so often when I shift into it, because it means I should go 40+km/h. I’m not so strong 😅
Gear inches never made sense to me. Depending if you pedal like a Dutch commuter or spin like a MTbiker you need to adjust gearing accordingly. Easiest option is to buy a Rohloff 😊
I rode 2X on my road bike for decades, but you lose the extremes on each chainring due to cross-chaining as well. On my 10-52 SRAM X0 with a 30T Absolute Black Oval chainring I am rarely in the 10 or 52 anyway. The cost difference between 1X and 2X is HUGE, however! That 10-52 cassette is $300 on sale!!! Or you can just go e-bike! Thanks!
I wake up, I want 3x. I ride my bike, I want 3x. And not so long ago on eBay I bought NOS Campagnolo 3x. And I almost bought a used carbon Specialized with 3x for asphalt parties. Call me a 3x kook and we'll call it even. 😀
@@VYBEKAT 3x is OG Alt. If it ain't 3x, it is a race bike, something light and aero and really fast and that's okay, call it a secret need for speed. 🤣
For beginners and the average rider, a 1x is much much much more approachable. By the time one has enough experience to want to ride a loaded bike, or understands how their drivetrain works, then 2x and 3x are appropriate and much more versatile!
I started on 2x and for 99% of my life I have had 2 or 3 by. Never had a problem with it. Also having a wide range makes hills more approachable when you are starting. If you live someplace flat 1x may be fine but I have always had topography to deal with.
@@TheStarkmojo having bought and sold several bikes over the last several years, 1x is way more approachable to the ordinary person and most 1x setups on stock bikes do have wide range. AdventX is very common on budget bikes and is plenty range and performance for the average non competitive cyclist and removes the learning curve of a front derailleur AND gets more people on bikes.
@@Joshcookies1 I ride with a bunch of 1x guys. I wait for them at the top of hills. There is nothing that difficult about using and maintaining a 2 or 3 by. But I learned to drive a Manual car that needed valve adjustments every 3000 miles and the points set every 1500. The idea that normal mechanical devices that have been around for over 50 years are “complex” is less a factor of the device and more a factor of our owned learned helplessness dealing with the devices that sustain us. I mean taken to the extreme a 1x is way more complicated than a single speed which is way more complicated than walking so might as well walk? And get Velcro shoes well you are at it because shoelaces are far more complicated . . .
I think the beginner and most average riders only have one bike, and no alternate parts to swap out. It makes more sense to me to advise versatile bikes and hence versatile gear ranges to beginners. Then if one develops a taste or starts racing on specific terrain, then a less versatile setup can make sense. As argued in this video a 2x is easier to make very versatile, with off the shelf components.
Old school 44/32/22 mountain triples are great for touring. I ran one on my LHT for years and years with a 11-32 cassette and it worked great!
Thanks for the website tip. I'd been using Sheldon Brown's but this looks easier. I like gear inches too
Sorry have to disagree. SB's gain ratio calculator is the 1. Crank length and tire size should part of the equation and it avoids the rather dated term 'Gear inches' which is so 19th century it predates the roller chain and the safety bicycle, ie its a reference to 'Ordinaries'. Other than that i agree with where PLP's heart is. Ive been running a Sugino super compact (48/30) on my CX for at least 5 years before gravel chainsets were a thing.
i wanna live to see the day that the Pinion gearbox is actually affordable by a pleb like me
@@kikooo3o I suspect that aftermarket companies will make gearboxes that fit where a pinion can one day.
If you’re putting tons of miles on a bike there’s a valid argument that the pinion will pay for itself with significantly longer mileage between drivetrain component replacements. The pinion isn’t perfect though and comes with its own set of pros/cons. It’s a big jump with big $$$ upfront and unfortunately very few demo bikes.
I'm hoping there will someday be a pinion equivalent that can fit in a standard threaded BB shell, so I could drop it into any of my bikes (I'd have to use a chain instead of a belt drive but that'd be okay.)
It'd be tricky to design but so darn cool.
A couple years ago there was a youtube interview with the guy behind Starling Cycles UK. He's a smart guy with an aerospace r&d background. He's been building mtbs around gearboxes and said in the interview he thinks the major players are likely ready to move if the market shifts - thinking they have products designed and ready.
I thought he might be optimistic but Shimano (around the time) had patented a design that would cost less than anything currently available.
Selling a bike designed around gearbox technology would seemingly would be targeted at the sport segment. Mtbs use gear ranges that make sense for many bikes. If there were several brands seriously marketing lines if bikes like Priority does the big players might have to jump in. I'm not holding my breath but I'm also tired of maintaining my 10 and 11sp derailleur systems.
As I wrote this it dawned on me that the change might already be happening. E-bikes being what's steering the market has a segment with gearboxes that could be leading the way. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@m.talley1660 mid drive e-mtb and gearboxes just make sense. It's been done already, pinion makes a 12 speed electric motor & gearbox combo called MGU. The major drawbacks as mentioned are weight but also reliance on electronics. I like that regular pinion boxes offer cable or electronic shifting but the MGU is electronic shifting only. Sort of a requirement now with e-bikes that things are shifting to electronics.
Nerdy drivetrain video and oh so helpful for 95% of us. A VERY experienced rider has done the homework for you so don’t have to. Thanks!
I've been running 50,34 on my 9spd Soma Double Cross for a long time and found myself being stuck between the 2 chainrings trying to find the right gear. Recently I built a single speed set up as 42/18, then i realized a 42,26 setup would be perfect for my ablity. Now I'm 90% on my big ring and only drop down on hard climbs and headwind.
Yeah I basically ride like I have a 1x in the big ring, and drop down to the small ring for hard climbs
I run a 1x set up on my double cross. 44t chain ring and 11-42 cassette. For me the 42t on the cassette is the bail out. I do some chunky single track climbs on it without trouble. If I was going to do some super long steep climbs it would install a small 30t narrow wide on the front and do a manual shift (stop and move the chain by hand) when needed. This would work with a mtb crankset or a road triple
you did a great job explaining why the double works for you, but i love my 11-42 cassette and 24/34/46 chainrings. i use an altus m310 rear derailleur and shift friction. the derailleur doesn’t quite take up all that chain, but like you i avoid cross chaining so there have been no issues with capacity
I love my triples. Best drivetrain ever
3x9 is peak drivetrain for reliability, durability, and versatility.
I've run 3x on all my bikes for over 40 years. On my 3x10 bikes, I treat the shifting like having 3 - 1x setups. I'll run the big ring (44t) on the flat pavement to and from the local mountains. When I hit the foothills, I drop into the middle ring (32t). When I hit the dirt, I drop into the small ring (20t). On my typical ride, I only shift the FD 3 times. I'm pushing the RD 11t past the max. cog size and 13t past is max. takeup and it shifts great. I like the chain line in the small and large rings. I generally only use the top or bottom half of the cassette when in those rings.
I grew up on a 2x5 setup with a wide range freewheel, for the time (14-34). On that bike, almost every shift was a double shift. I had a gearing chart taped to the stem. I carried that chart over to my 3x10 bikes, but decided it was no longer needed with the closer ratios on the 10sp cassettes.
Triple is the best
My first triple was home made. Got a cog off an old freehub, drilled five holes, got some screws and nuts and the FD was able to reach it by opening the stop.
@@jack002tuberwell done! Me too😂 used roofing screws for the the rounded heads and nuts for spacing, works just fine, I can agree that a wide range 2x beats a 1x but close range 2x is shite and an extra small cog fixes that
Definitely a good argument for 2x. Thanks again for all the useful information! 🤙🏼
Thanks for explaining that, the visual explanation was really helpful. I would have stuck to a 3x setup for touring, but i can see the sense in a well chosen 2x mow.
3x makes sense with 9 or lower cassette sprocket count, where the range from the cassette is impossible without huge gaps between the gears. With 10, and especially 11 sprocket cassettes giving wider range but with usable jumps between the cogs, the extra range offered by 3x is unnecessary/excessive and is added complication for little benefit (for most scenarios anyway).
Inspired by the series, i made the switch from 1x11 to a 2x10 with a similar setup (11-43 Cues in the back, 40-26 Cues in the front, GRX400 the rest). Haven't been able to ride it yet because of weather, but can't wait to try it out!
I prefer 1x just for the ease of use. I have a pretty easy ratio, sometimes i miss some gears on the downhills if i really want to push my speed, and i have never had any issues going uphill, my easiest gear is 38-52.
2x and 3x are absolutely great for non competitive cycling and friction shifters are great I was wrong about them all the time👍🏻✌🏻
I've got friction shifting 2x (36/24, 11-42) on my heavy-ish drop bar, bikepacking Salsa Fargo. It's a great range for what it's meant for, lots of climbing with a load and crunchy terrain. Even though I enjoy that setup, I'm building a lighter weight road/gravel bike with a 1x because I know that 520% range is just where i want it for the riding it'll do. I also love the pretty garbaruk 10-52 cassettes and clean look of the 1x. It'll be great with the UNO too 😁
I have the Garburuk - it is a little crunchy when shifting. Looks cool though.
@davidmurphy9151 hmmmm thank you for that info.
20 years ago I switched my 3x MTBs to 2x by taking off the big ring. 24/36 with an 11-34 cassette was plenty for off road.
One of the things I liked about 3x on the road,however, was that it worked like a ring for climbing, one for going along and one for descending. Really cut down on front shifts. And closer jumps between chainrings.
I'm not sure I'd be happy running an 18t difference between 2 chainrings, I find even 16t to be a big jump.
With a wide range cassettes you aren’t jumping back and forth like you are with a 3x. 95% of the time is spent on the big ring and the inner is used only on anything really steep.
I just screwed in my limit screw and ground off the teeth on the 46 or 48 outer. Instant double with chainguard. Subsequently went up from 36 to 40 middle.
@9:08 that was a SMOOTH transition. : )
Great nerding out!
I run a 3x on my cargo bike and I find it suits well the purpose of that bike: carrying a kid mostly on flat and occasionally up a steep hill. In the end it’s like a truck. Numbers: 42-32-22 with an 11-32 9 speed at the back. The rear tire is a 45mm 650b.
On the new gravel, which should also see some steep hill from the top down, I’m using a wide-range double made out of a triple crankset (thanks for the idea BTW) 48-34 on a 11-42 11 speed -the derailleur is a long cage XT of the first four digit series, which does the whole range (barely: 48-42 is really a stretch) and the tires are 57mm 650b.
It should cover the range I need, but I got sick just after finishing the bike and couldn’t ride for three months, just began commuting (with another bike) again this Monday…
Note: use road double front derailleurs for wide range double, preferably, and not recent MTB triples: the shape of the cage of these latter ones may be unable to shift some small chainrings.
Excellent explanation!
That’s. Great gear tool. For people in my income bracket it’s generally about choosing the right gearing when buying a bike and occasionally making small changes to an existing setup. I missed the whole 1x craze because I only buy bikes about once a decade or so. (Well except the 3 I bought since 2020 … but that’s another story).
Don’t forget, the big ring on a 3x doubles as a bash guard
Not for me. These old knees can’t push those big rings. Mine is a dedicated bash guard.
*triples
@ 😂
Plus it keeps my jeans from getting caught in the chain!
@ 1 3by to rule them all!
Great review Russ. Thanks. On the triples, you could set them up like the old touring set ups that were basically fairly close middle and big rings with a small bail out granny. Also the older 3 by mountain triples with 22-32-42 could be an option. Personally I like doubles on my road and gravelish bikes. However on my 26" wheeled mountain bike I run a Shimano XT triple with 22-30-40 and a 11-36 cassette. I use the middle and big a lot and have the 22 as a bail out for tough climbs.
The advantage of 3x is price. There are plenty of old bikes to buy for a price not much more than that of an 11-50 cassette.
Ross, another fantastic, helpful video. Thanks for all the work.
Just for the sake of sharing, I have been running a 3x9 setup, using off the shelf components w/o any extenders, or other hacks which gives me a 15-111 gear inch range (727%) with a 700Cx40 tires.
I am exceeding the RD Cap Max by 6 teeth ( RD is 45, and my setup is 51), but with a moderate B-Screw adjustment ( NO crazy screwing the B-Screw all the way in ), I have not had any issues, and shifting is quite crisp.
22/32/44 -- 104/64 BCD Crankset (FC-t4060)
11-40, 9 speed Cassette ( Sunrace CSM980)
Deore RD-M592 SGS Rear Derailleur
FD-T6000 Front Derailleur
Shimano SL-BS77 Bar end shifter in Index mode
140 Link Chain ( My CS length is 445)
Flat out a GREAT vid, thanks, was not aware of this bike gear calculator! Still a triple(3x10) guy but this does cause me take a look the wide range 2x.
One of the very few channels I didn't skip the ad ^_^
Maybe I will on the next video, but this time the brand was new to me and related to an overall theme of the channel.
I run a 3x system on my touring bike and tbh I don’t use the big ring much, whereas I use a 2x on my mountain bike and I use most of the gears, so I’ll look to swop out the 3x in the future. A useful video and gear calculator.
I’m running a 2x10 on my Soma Wolverine - 42 / 28 sram mtb and a 11-44 rear . Runs well loaded or hitting rails to trails rides !!
On my Paronama Forillion , I had 30/46 and a cassette of 11/46, work great, but I had to add two chain links to be able to use 46/46, I did it to experiment a bit, now I'm looking at the Boreal from Panorama, 22/36 with a cassette of 11/45, I imagine I could go 22/40 chainring or maybe 10/46 cassette to achieve higher gear, I don't want very high gear, but it fun not to spin as soon as you are descending a small hill. Seems that going 10/46 cassette would have a bigger impact than 22/40 chainring.
Thank for the video, I didn't know about gear-calculator, nice resource to have and I'm sold on the two-by, really makes sense. Keep the useful info coming!
Loving the "gear inches" talk. I started doing this 50 years ago which really helped me know how i typically rode and to compare ratios on other gearing set ups. I then found i liked low to mid gears and spinning than pishing bigger gears.I've gone through 3x and 2x snd now 1x. I find i still prefer certain gearing for most of my riding no matter the set up. It has mostly been in a 36 front which is what my new Cutthroat has.
Rohloff speedhub 14 is the best choice for bicycle touring. Almost zero maintenance. Change oil every 5000 km and keep riding....chain does not have lateral movement and lasts longer. There is a variety of sprockets and therefore different default sprocket ratios. The hub lasts up to 100,000 km. It may sound expensive but total cost of ownership is way less than a drive train with detailers
Thanks for the gear calculator tutorial! I commute with a single speed electric and this will really help me to select a proper chainring and cog combo to maximize my fun with it in the future.
Thanks for fighting big cog.
I like the manageable step between gears that running a 3x, like a 44-32-24, and an 11-36 ten speed cog on the back allows. I find I'm on the 17, 19, and 21 tooth cogs most all the time. The step is easier between them compared to the rest of the cog and it helps me maintain a cadence I'm most comfortable with. Those are my sweet spot gears no matter what big ring I'm on at the front - and I do use all 3 rings. But like you, the 'bail out' gear is the most important with the 3x bike with the 24 on front and 36 on the back.
I have a bike with a 49/30 up front and a 14x25 10 speed in the back, not a lot of range but covers from 34 to 93 GI. Fun ride.
Looks like you forgot to link the playlist. I am interested in broadening the range of a well chosen 2x setup, but would prefer to stick with index shifting on drop bars. I'm new to this sort of thing, so learning the compatibility of bits and bobs, and what components works with what is daunting! My current bike is 50/34 up front, and 11-36 12S cassette, Shimano 105. I have ordered a new GRX crankset in 46/30 along with a matching FD. But, I'm also now contemplating building a Fairlight Secan and would like a broader range that suits my style. And, I have no idea where to start in picking the components. I'm watching and learning, so hopefully one day I'll wrap my head around it all... Thanks for what you do!
1x is good for mountain biking but on almost anything else that isn't mountain biking 2/3x is better
That’s been my experience.
I’m a bit of a partial 2x convert lately. I put together a really awesome setup for my new Lynskey GR300 with the idea that it could really handle anything I’ll be doing on it: replacing my more traditional road bike and taking over on offroad rides from my 90s MTB (which can now be a more dedicated commuter). Sword 48/31 crankset paired with an 11-40t 11s cassette and GRX 810 rear derailleur. It’s absolutely perfect for an all purpose drivetrain for me given that I like to go fast but I also like climbing steep PNW hills. Because the best part of climbing the hill is getting to bomb back down.
Anyway I still love my trusty 1x11 (42t + 11-46t) and for commuting it’s great not having a front derailleur to think about. It goes low enough for most anything and doesn’t spin out too badly on descents. But man am I loving my 2x lately.
Just frustrated at how hard it was to find an affordable 2x crankset that goes low enough for normal people to ride normal terrain but also pushes the gear spread out as much as possible given some of the really high capacity RDs like the GRX810 that can handle it.
This is exactly what I have been exploring for the last year on my road and touring bikes. My road bike is Di2 so I’m limited to certain derailleurs which makes things more challenging. I was exploring cassettes from e*thirteen and hit a road block as the hub on my ZIPP wheels was not compatible with XD drivers. After some hunting on eBay for used parts the bike has a 9-46 cassette and a 46/34t cranks with a Garbaruk cage extender. It’s great that there are so many cassette options but finding a derailleur combination that works can be challenging and possibly expensive. I would appreciate a follow-up video discussing this challenge. Also shifter/derailleur pulls can also muddy the water. Great show! Keep them coming.
Kind of my reaction... Does a drivetrain I'd want actually have the options he's depicting on the gear calculator without doing some sort of hack? As far as I've seen the answer has been no.
I got inspired watching this video only to find world crashing down upon me. First to get a 10-52t cassette you have to go 12 speed. My bike has 11 speeds. My chainrings are 110mm BCD 5 bolt. No one makes inner chainrings less than 34T in this configuration. No one makes outer chainrings less than 46T in this configuration. So to set up a 10-52T cassette with 30/42T chainrings I would need an all new drivetrain, cranks, and possibly new bottom bracket. Which adds up to a fair amount of cash. Let me know if you have a suggestions.
I have used a 1x4 for shopping for which it was geared quite low, it got me thinking that a 3x4 would give 12 gears with little concern for cross chaining so a wider, stronger chain could be used. Ultimately though it comes down to ratios. Great video.
Good explanation. The problem is mainly finding the crankset that allows you to have 44-42-40 and 28-26-24 chainrings. These are not standard combinations and they are generally quite expensive. The standard is rather 46-30 on the road/gravel or 38x24 in the mountains. Not to mention compatibility with the bike's bottom bracket...
That's why I've devoted several videos to alternative cranksets :)
Thanks Russ - this was a great comparison of the three systems. I'm definitely rethinking the gearing on my dedicated touring bike running a vintage tripple (46/36/24 I think) which definitely could have used lower gearing last summer during my tours. I think i need to ride 95 gear inches on the flat to see how it feels before I make any decisions on swapping rings on any of my bikes. I should also take a look at the gearing on my wife's touring bike and see if I can swap a smaller low ring in there for a better bail out / loaded climbing gear for her.
Russ, Avid did make a 73 BCD converter ring that bolts on a 58 BCD chainring if you want to run a 20-22 chainrings. I run a 39/26 double and it works great for a loaded rail/trail setup. I am going to try a 34/22 for a trail/mountain setup next. Keep up the great work.
Rus with the ole man mtn advert! Dayuummmm
Preach brother preach
When 1x was the new hot shit, I built myself a new Mtb with it, when I saw how the chain bent I got sick as a technician and switched to 2x IMMEDIATELY
I just finished setuping a 24-36 crank with a 10-50 12v cassette based on SRAM Rival 22 commands and rear derailleur using the Ratio convertion kit to 12 speeds. The main issue was the front derailleur, I used a Cues 11 speeds front derailleurs that I had to modify significantly. The front shifting is not great but it does well the bell out job ! \o/
750% gear ratio \o/
I also completely share that in 1x, the biggest gear is barely usable but having 2x resolve this chain alignement issue.
I want to see a video of this in operation in a bike stand!
Nice presentation, thanks Russ.
30x with 11-42. It came with a 40t on the front which had to go. Replaced the SRAM Apex crankset with a Deore crankset. Works great with the SRAM Rivel 1.
The result is 19" to 75" gear inches. I can pretty much go anywhere.
id be happy with 17 to 80 gear inches.
My new bike came with a sram 1x 40 10-44t. After the first ride I knew I was not gonna be happy with the range so I made it a 2x. 43/30 with a 10-44t. It shift perfectly! Although there is a little slack in the chain when running little/little which is never.
Really enjoyed that analysis.
I have the "46 triple" with a 34 on the back and a 38/24, also with a 34.
I like your 42/26 approach.
I use BGC often, I usually show the ration on top of the triangles, and the super cool thing is you can input also tire dimension, so you can see how the same transmission is changing if you change wheel and tire. It has a lot of preset commercially available cassettes etc but the library is not often updated (i.e. I don't think it has the 11-45 on the Cues)
I'm building a cues based transmission but it is not 42-26, it's 40-26 and 11-45 cassette. I would love to run 42-26. Also, cues 2x smallest crank is 170mm while I would like to go 160 mm or even 155 mm.. so, I'm starting with the CUES FC-U4010 that is cheap enough and then we'll see
What is the advantage of 2x over 3x? If you’re going to have a front mech, 3x makes more sense to me. Mostly keep it in the middle ring. If you are going downhill / tailwind, put it in the big ring. If it gets steep, move to the small ring. With a 2x, which ring should you be in for average conditions? I bought an Uno bar end shifter, running 36t chainring with 10-51 Deore rear mech. Perfect for me
I answer that specifically in this video. If you’re mostly in the middle ring just get rid of the big one.
@@PathLessPedaledTVthanks Russ - really well explained. I used to have a triple on my previous mountain bike. The longest gears were only suitable for downhill on a smooth road with a tailwind! Way too fast!
Great video. Thanks for the content. Thanks for the tool. Just a note. 2015ish 2x10 sram mtb cranks came with 39-26 chainrings and could be run with 36 to 40 by 24 to 26 rings. With todays modern cassette choices, they are often overlooked option. A bit ugly though.
My problem with even a compact 2x is that on my triple I spend most of the day on the middle 34t for 4 pannier touring. A 40 big ring would be too large and I would have to run rather cross chained much of the time :(
Exactly. Triple is best. I'm always in the wrong gear and severely cross chained in my 2x no matter what rings i choose.
Triple lets me have the ideal all around middle ring while maintaining a reserve of extreme gearing both high and low
@@VYBEKATexactly, and having a bigger main ring means you don’t hammer the 11 tooth all the time, same goes for 1x ok the top gear is just ok but the least efficient cog gets all the wear and probably a poor chain line too
Last summer I did a 1x11 to 3x11 conversion and man is it great for touring with other people, you can really dial the gear to your preferred cadence/tiredness and the speed of the group. But I agree that 2x is enough outside of this "peloton" of sorts. The FC M6000-3 10s crankset has the sliding ramps between chainrings that work great with 11s chain and seems to be the cheapest 3x11 compatible crankset available. 9 speed triples didn't work for me, the 11s chain keeps getting stuck between the chainrings.
Completely agree! 👍👍
If performance isn't the issue, why not compare that against touring gearboxes, like Alfine 11, Rohloff, or Pinion p18? Less maintenance, especially with a belt, and often a higher spread than your 2x setup. It is often more expensive, but the much reduced maintenance can make up for the cost in a long term.
They’re heavy, expensive and only work on specific frames. Alfine 11 has 406%, Rohloff 536% and a P18 636%. My typical 2x double has 620% and can be expanded to 670% at a fraction of the price and can be run on more bike frames.
I hardly hit the limits with my Rohloff (with a Gates belt). It’s a fine drive and I’d never return to a chain drive for a touring bike.
@@StephanKusch I agree, I feel that this is being discounted a lot for the kind of riding advocating here. The weight gain is negligible if you are also carrying cargo on top of it and the price isn't that bad when you are putting tens of thousands of miles on your bike. You'll need to replace most of your drivetrain several times in that distance.
Love the content. I’m personally team triple. Russ could’ve adjusted the triple option for 22,32,42 which are easy and cheap to source. This would’ve given him the range he was after. You also need to shift less with a 32 middle ring, bc it’s basically the modern 1x with bailouts on both ends. Either way you roll, have fun.
No matter what you count and tell, as long as it's cheaper to make 1x bikes (and sell them for higher price than 2x) they will be better :( they are better for specific range if you are searching for versatility and cheap service 2x are in front. Really appreciate your scientific work! Thanks 👍
I have a 1x a 2x and a 3x bike. I kind of like the simplicity of the 1x but cross chaining really is an issue, you need a giant weird cassette to get the range and I don’t get the popularity of it because of this. In particular applications where conditions are highly prescribed like a time trial race I get it, plus some mountain biking situations where efficiency isn’t the biggest factor. 3x has enormous range but I have to keep mental track of what’s going on plus there is overlap and duplication/redundant gears. It’s also heavier and not the easiest to set up sometimes. 2x is just a happy medium. You can get away with 2x with a 10 cog cassette too.
I’m in the same boat as you Russ. Running 38/24T in front and a 9 speed 11-34T cassette (friction shifting). Higher gears are not needed (I’d rather be coasting), lower than 24/34 is also pointless - at that speed I’d rather just walk my bike or push it uphill (easier on knees).
3x8 💯👌
I use this web page all the time, and you can change "Display" to Gear Inches if you want! No, gear inches really don't make any logical sense, but they're a useful number. I used it to help me move from a 24-36-46 with 11-23 9 speed to 26-42-(chainguard) with a 11-28 11 speed. I could see that 46x12 and 42x11 were functionally identical, so I went a few months without using my 46x11, didn't miss it, so I knew the new setup would work fine. I've had the new setup for almost 2 years now, and honestly, I rarely use the 42x11 anyway, even though it's a lower high gear. With a modified triple, the "new middle big ring" (42) works well enough with the entire range. It's a "one by with O.S.G" (Oh Shoot! gears) in practice. I only shift the front if I'm going up one of the big hills, and will go on a lot of rides without ever touching the front derailleur at all.
My Salsa Journeyman came with a 2x. I hated it. It could never stay on the chainring unless I was in a very low or high gear. Got it adjusted several times at shops and it never worked. I took it all off and went to a 1x and it is so much better. Stays locked in all day, only one derailleur, and I only gave up 2 speeds, the highest and lowest. The 3x on my road bike and MTB are useful for the rarer occasions where I’m going really fast or slow uphill. My gravel bike is really just a commuter or slower road bike on bigger tires. I rarely spin out the gears.
I don’t get the gear inch thing. I have a 46/30 two by and a 40/12 cassette. The most important combo for me is the high gear so a ratio is simple for me. 30 over 40 is 0.75. So if I want an easy climbing combo I’ll need a lower ratio. 🤷♂️
Did you try a Rohloff? I love it
Too expensive for me.
Great Video! On the same lines, what is the best chainstay and wheelbase length according to you and why?
👑2x is and always will be KING👑
I have long chain stays,that minimize the cross chaining;) i am heavy, the bike is heavy, happy with 32T or 30T 11-48t cues u6000.❤
In the process of switching to hydro disc but stay mechanical shifting. Bike is sram 1x 11 long cage with 42t max. Thinking of going ratio tech cage for the 52t cog but seeing if I can go 2x as well for better range options.
maybe you covered it and I missed it Russ, but there's a limit to the teeth differential with the front rings isn't there? how does the derailleur deal with the distance in "height?"
not saying I want to run a 50-22 in the front, but at what point do you need to consider that?
I’m not sure what the limit is. The stated limit for most is 16t differential. I’ve run a 44-26 before with a standard road front derailleur and it worked. 3x derailleurs work with a wide tooth differential.
@@PathLessPedaledTVI had some bad experiences with some recent MTB triples: the shape of the cage made it difficult to get out of the small ring. No problems with road doubles (48-34).
I think the limit, at the end of the day, is set by the length of the cage…
I think the Shimano Essa 1x is very interesting, it's fairly cheap, offers 410% (enough for most people I know) and is very easy to use as a 1x8
I wanna build a bike with GRX 2x11v - Chainrings (44x28 TA Specialites) and (11-42 Cassette)
The 1x crowd will argue that you save weight when you lose the front mech, but I'd be curious to see a weight comparison between a dinner plate 12/13 1x setup vs an equivalent range 2x (I know Russ isn't concerned about weight but it's still a valid point of discussion) Personally, the cross chain issue alone would be enough to get me to stick with 2x even if the increased gear inch range weren't a real thing.
Anyway, it's a shame that there aren't any rear mechs that can shift an 11-52 on a 2x! Wouldn't that be dope.
The wide range double.......just like 1x......but twice!
I still prefer 3x because of the big jump with 2x. Currently on 44-34-24 with 11-43 CUES 10-speed (720%) all friction shift. I'd like to change to 11-45 11-speed which has really nice gear spacings (750%).
I am adding a comment for your channel. I use both 1x and 2x. Gravel bike 1X; I have a 52t with a 42T ring . I use 2X for commuter/town bike
There’s something that I’ve been wondering about. This is all hypothetical of course. Let’s say we have a crank of whatever length. We have an 11 tooth gear cog and an 11 tooth chainring; that gives us a 1:1. Now, we also have a 52 tooth cog with a 52 tooth chainring; also giving us a 1:1. Would the pedal effort be the same between these two scenarios or would one setup be easier/harder to pedal than the other?
In that scenario it would theoretically be the same. However the same gear with different crank lengths would change perceived effort.
Just ride a fixie for a week and you'll appreciate a 3 speed. LOL Age and conditioning should be considered into the equation. Since you're party pace anyway, a little e-assist might be another option, could save the day making waypoints, and help with illness/injuries (Check out Cade media's recent tours.) My new 1by MTB's 30/51 was so low (slow) that balancing was an issue (no flow,) and I can track stand fairly well. Some guy in a yellow jersey even rode a 1by last year. I enjoyed this video because it showed me how little I was missing.
I still REALLY REALLY want a belt drive though!
Now: 165mm cranks!
Hey Russ, what's that gorgeous first 2x crankset, and how do I get one? That chain guard is so much more attractive than the one on the Sugino Super Maxy.
I have a stock 1x on my Midnight Special. There are a ton of hills where I ride, so I plan on doing a 2x. 1x is really limited on climbs and even run out of gear on the top end. My bike is also heavy, I need the help haha
Yeah the frameset weight on those midnight specials is on the heavy side. 50cm is 3.7kg. I think my size (58cm) is pushing 4kg
@jsca470 Yes, I think the fork too. I got it down to 26 US pounds without fender and lighter wheels, but with fenders on for winter and other small extras it's about as much as a hardtail mtb. Still my favorite bike it's really zippy.
@@joshm9003 the frame set weight includes the fork. For comparison My soma double cross in 58cm size comes in at about 3.2kg.
@jsca470 Yep, I see that now. I must have misread! Surly lists the fork weight 1254g or 2.75 us pounds. No frameset weight, but a complete 56 on the new 700c MS is 27 pounds. Stock wheels are heavy. My build doesn't have any carbon either. A Soma, Ritchey, or maybe Sim Works new all road frame I'd consider, but right now I'm enjoying the MS. Cheers
Changing my setup from an 18.4 gear inches low to a 17.4 gear inches (change from 600% gear range to 607% gear range) would cost about $100. Can you feel the difference of 1 gear inch? Worth it or not?
Two by gives a lot of choices.
I use a 44/24 up front and 11-34 9 speed out back. do I use the highest/lowest gear that much? No, but this ratio keeps me in the middle of my cassette for most of my riding.
This is just a matter of preference.
2x makes the most sense for the most people: easier to set up, with wider range and lower gearing.
The one argument I'll make for 3x is that you can use a cassette with smaller jumps between gears. Maybe I'm just sensitive, but it's easier to find smaller cassettes with fewer 17% jumps between gears.
Other than that, 3x is harder to find, heavier, harder to set up, and harder to find shifters for. Even so, I love my 3x bike.
The efficiency of a big chainrings chain wrap shouldnt be discounted, it saves you a few watts, obviously more negligible as the cassette teeth decrease
I have 2 mtb's
One 20-32-42 with 12/32 8-speed
and 26-39 with 11/42 11-speed
Pretty much the same range
For me it makes almost no difference
I prefer 1X for Mountain and Gravel bike when riding off road and hilly terrain and with a loaded bike you don’t need to go too fast. I like 2X for a Road bike when I want to go faster and more efficient on a longer ride with mostly flat terrain. The only do it all drivetrain is a 3X IMHO .
Yeah but then I have to shift with my left hand. 😢
(Obviously kidding)
And one more benefit of 2x is you get the same (or better) gear gaps as 1x12 with a more durable chain.
I ride 2x10, 2x12 and 1x12 and while the 2x10 on my gravel bike is the lowest spec, it’s the bike I service the least and takes the most beating with the most miles.
A lot of people say this is BS, but my own personal experience has shown that 10 speed chain and cassettes wear much much slower than systems with skinnier chains and less tolerance.
And shimanos chain wear recommendation interval is also twice as long for 10 speed vs 11 speed. So there’s that.
If I could only have one bike that I needed to ride regularly, it would be a 10 or 9 speed double system. It just simplifies your maintenance.
Just whatever you do don't try and run a 3x with indexed brifters.
32 in the front, 9-52 in the back - covers everything party pace
How many miles does that 9t cog last though? The chain wraps hard around a cog that small.
little bagel in the front, big ol' pizza pan in the rear!
@@mexmiler my cassette is about 2500 km, the smallest cog looks like new. It happens not so often when I shift into it, because it means I should go 40+km/h. I’m not so strong 😅
Gear inches never made sense to me. Depending if you pedal like a Dutch commuter or spin like a MTbiker you need to adjust gearing accordingly. Easiest option is to buy a Rohloff 😊
I rode 2X on my road bike for decades, but you lose the extremes on each chainring due to cross-chaining as well. On my 10-52 SRAM X0 with a 30T Absolute Black Oval chainring I am rarely in the 10 or 52 anyway. The cost difference between 1X and 2X is HUGE, however! That 10-52 cassette is $300 on sale!!! Or you can just go e-bike! Thanks!
Crank length??
160mm
46/30 to a 11-40 cassette. problem solved. it works well for 90% of people
40/28 and 11-36T could work too
I wake up, I want 3x. I ride my bike, I want 3x. And not so long ago on eBay I bought NOS Campagnolo 3x. And I almost bought a used carbon Specialized with 3x for asphalt parties. Call me a 3x kook and we'll call it even. 😀
3x is best. I dream of 3x
@@VYBEKAT 3x is OG Alt. If it ain't 3x, it is a race bike, something light and aero and really fast and that's okay, call it a secret need for speed. 🤣
For beginners and the average rider, a 1x is much much much more approachable. By the time one has enough experience to want to ride a loaded bike, or understands how their drivetrain works, then 2x and 3x are appropriate and much more versatile!
I started on 2x and for 99% of my life I have had 2 or 3 by. Never had a problem with it. Also having a wide range makes hills more approachable when you are starting. If you live someplace flat 1x may be fine but I have always had topography to deal with.
@@TheStarkmojo having bought and sold several bikes over the last several years, 1x is way more approachable to the ordinary person and most 1x setups on stock bikes do have wide range. AdventX is very common on budget bikes and is plenty range and performance for the average non competitive cyclist and removes the learning curve of a front derailleur AND gets more people on bikes.
@@Joshcookies1 I ride with a bunch of 1x guys. I wait for them at the top of hills. There is nothing that difficult about using and maintaining a 2 or 3 by. But I learned to drive a Manual car that needed valve adjustments every 3000 miles and the points set every 1500. The idea that normal mechanical devices that have been around for over 50 years are “complex” is less a factor of the device and more a factor of our owned learned helplessness dealing with the devices that sustain us.
I mean taken to the extreme a 1x is way more complicated than a single speed which is way more complicated than walking so might as well walk? And get Velcro shoes well you are at it because shoelaces are far more complicated . . .
I think the beginner and most average riders only have one bike, and no alternate parts to swap out. It makes more sense to me to advise versatile bikes and hence versatile gear ranges to beginners. Then if one develops a taste or starts racing on specific terrain, then a less versatile setup can make sense. As argued in this video a 2x is easier to make very versatile, with off the shelf components.
@ agree but if we are sitting around talking gear inches it’s probably not a great conversation for beginners anyway 🤣