ARCANE: What was the plan at the Council Caitlyn and Vi?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ค. 2024
- An "Arcane" video essay about Caitlyn and Vi and what plan they had going into their audience with the council. What did they do after we leave them in bed if not make a plan? 😉 Did they have a plan at all for how to solve Piltover and the undercity’s problems?
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Now that you mention it, the fact that the first topsider Vi gets to know is caitlyn, is both a blessing and a curse, since she is indeed a gem, the best person she could hope for. On the one hand that's great, she probably wouldn't even get out of prison if it was anyone else. But it's a curse because she probably got her hopes up a little too much. "Maybe piltover isn't that bad if caitlyn's from there" "maybe I can talk to them" well Vi... you're probably not gonna find anyone else like her up there. Maybe Viktor. But he's also from Zaun.
Very good point, Caitlyn is definitely not representative of most Pilties! Jayce comes closest, but he's also the odd one out...
And Jayce is kind of Dumb :)
May I observe that we not know many people of Piltover outside the council. And these seven guys were very "special". The question is if all ordinary inahbitants of Piltover are that extreme kind of selfish assholes? People who are not indecent wealthy, who works in the academy or as an official or and normal worker might be the better kind of guy for Vi, even the enforcers can not all be like Marcus or the wards in jail. With time she might find friends - I hope for her because only beeing Caitlyns appendage for the rest of her live alone will become hard for her with the years. Even in a relationship someone can get lonely.
@@thomasewald7905 You're right, just like Caitlyn can't just be Vi's sidekick, Vi can't be Caitlyn's... So their stories have to develop independently of each other too. But I doubt we'll see friendships with regular Pilties. But you're so right that we get a very narrow view of the topsiders, we only meet councillors, enforcers and one assistant to the Dean (who is a Zaunite!)
@@thomasewald7905 nice one
my headcanon of what happened between cait and vi before the meeting with the council is also that they fell asleep.
i think after cait gently caressed vi's face and vi grabbed onto her hand, they just lingered there like this for a while, looking into each other's eyes. i think they held that gaze for quite a bit, both too scared to move forward in fear of messing up this tender moment. they really just wanted to take this quiet, peaceful moment they stole and extend it for as long as they could without pressuring it to be something more and risking making the other nervous and awkwardly ending it prematurely. and i think while they were laying there, looking at each other, holding hands, they simply drifted off and fell asleep.
personally i also like to believe that cait woke up first and realized that she had subconsciously moved closer to vi in her sleep and takes a moment to appreciate how close she is to vi and looks at her sleeping face, which is right when vi wakes up, looking straight at caitlyn who's barely millimeters away from her with gentle, yet positive surpise. then they both realize how long they slept and without having any time to really discuss what just happened and how close they have gotten (both emotionally and physically on the bed) they rush up and tension immediately sets in as they prepare to face the council. to me this works really well with the scene after when vi leaves cait and with where both of them are at emotionally at that point in the story so i will pretend this is how it went down 🥺
What a nice story you lay out 😊 I think it could definitely happen that way...
@@tildaowen thank you ☺ i also fully believe in my heart that cait would've gotten quite flustered and made a big deal about insisting that vi turn around while she changed back into her enforcer clothes (while also lowkey hoping she'd sneak a peek)
Sounds like you should write a fanfic!
@@tildaowen i actually genuinely thought about it but anytime i've attempted to put it to paper, i failed to convey the depth of emotion i feel for these amazing characters.
in any case, thank you so much for taking the time to read my comments and i'm sorry if i got a bit too excited and annoying about it 😅
You're not annoying 😊 My suggestion? Copy paste what you wrote above and go from there. It doesn't have to be fine art. Write what you want them to do and once you're done, you can try and heighten the depth of emotion in there to match how you feel. And if it doesn't work? Never mind! I'm sure you'll enjoy reading it just the same! 😉
I agree, I think Vi and Caitlyn were sleeping before the meeting with the Council. I think people are used to shoddy writing where characters in a potential romantic relationship equate vulnerability and intimacy with sex (they can go together, but not always). Fortunately, I think we know by now that this is not the kind of writing we're dealing with. I have faith that when Vi and Caitlyn finally take their relationship to the next level, it will be done at the right moment, in the right way.
My thoughts exactly! The writers have done extremely well so far, so we're not going to be cheated with something off screen. We are going to have the moment at the appropriate time as the story progresses 😊
Can't wait!
Also, like, Arcane was very explicit when they showed Jayce and Mel sleeping together. And they're not exactly subtle about depicting Vi and Cait's mutual attractions, so I doubt they would tip toe around the idea that they would be physically intimate.
@@Birthday888 I agree! Some people think that they don't show Vi and Caitlyn snogging because of the gay thing, so as not to alienate certain viewers, etc. But I seriously doubt they have qualms about that! Amanda Overton even said that they didn't want to bury their relationship in subtext...
I also think that they have the explicit sex scene with Jayce and Mel for multiple reasons, not just to show their relationship. For one that Mel uses all gifts she has in her political manoeuvres! And to contrast what Jayce is doing with Viktor's situation. Jayce is heading for the top, reaching for the stars, doing a very vigorous life affirming act, while Viktor is hitting rock bottom, nearly dying, and disappearing into the hexcore...
I'm not sure we'll have an explicit sex scene with Caitlyn and Vi, because that's not the point of their relationship... But I expect kisses and words of love (and if the show doesn't deliver on that, I'll riot!)
@@tildaowen Totally agree with you regarding Vi and Cait, I think of Cait as the rock on which Vi can rest and find peace and love and for Caitlyn Vi is the person who showed her the real world, with the same hunger for justice like herself , a good person and well, hot as hell too lol.
@@Violet2148 yes, both are very yummy! But more importantly, as you say, they can give each other what they never knew they needed... ❤️❤️❤️
In season 2 I think Caitlyn will inherit her mom's duties after her supposed death as a writer on arcane Amanda Owen said that you inherit the position your parents had. I also hope Victor and Vi meet I think it would be interesting as Victor was from the undercity but now lives in Piltover. How would Vi react seeing one of her own people live in a place like Piltover. Especially one friend to the renowned golden boy. I'm sure Victor and Caitlyn are at least acquainted with one another even though we have never seen them interact.
Both of them have known Jayce for a long time so yeah.
Interesting theories! I think you're right, Caitlyn knows Viktor, how could she not? He has been Jayce's partner through all of the time gap. If she either becomes a reluctant Councillor or the sheriff, maybe she will cross paths with him as he progresses further to the darkness (=hexcore) and starts wreaking (more) havoc around him. Maybe investigating Sky's disappearance?
@@tildaowen ooooo I know I'm late into this, but I am absolutely loving your videos.
You guys comments just made me think that if Cait's mom doesn't survive it gives Cait the opportunity to be the sheriff because her mom was the reason she couldn't move up. However, her father was supportive when she returned from the Under City, he says "She's doing what she thought was right." It's kind of like How to Train Your Dragon 2 SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS
The main character was forced into a position of leadership after his father passed.
@@Cerberus804 Thank you so much 😊 Yes, Caitlyn is definitely the type to "do the right thing", so she'll most likely rise to the occasion if it's asked of her and if the circumstances require it...
I completely agree on the "What were they doing all afternoon?" answer you provide. After ALL they went through since getting Vi out of prison and getting into Caitlyn's house, the first and most obvious thing to do would be to take a bath and FREAKING SLEEP ALL DAY LONG. I know that fans, specially shippers, have a lot of reasons to imagine they kissed or more. But if Caitlyn and Vi, given their strong mutual attraction, haven't kissed already, it's probably gonna take them a little more time to get to that point in their relationship. They ARE in the middle of war after all.
About the break up in the rain scene. I believe Vi is saying all those things about oil and water for several reasons. She can't even look Caitlyn in the eye while saying those things because I'm not sure Vi believes them to be true 100%. She most likely says those things to push Caitlyn away because Vi knows that what comes next on her to do list (going after Silco) is going to be hella dangerous and she will not put Caitlyn in danger. She has already so much on her conscious. Every person Vi cares about and she gets close to ends up death or altered forever by catastrophe. Vi can't and won't let that happen to Caitlyn. So Vi will say whatever she can to not just push Caitlyn away but also to convince herself and leave Caitlyn behind.
Great video. And I seriously hope Cassandra doesn't die in the attack to the council. I really want Caitlyn to have a somewhat good relationship with her mother. We already have Vi, Jinx, Ekko who have lost their families and parental figures. We already have enough tragedy. Caitlyn does NOT deserve that.
Thank you! And I'm right where you are, Vi has so much on her mind, and her protective instinct just takes over, so she pushes Caitlyn away (the only thing she thinks works...). She has so much guilt and a belief that she doesn't deserve love, so she feeds Caitlyn a line to draw a line between them. The sad thing is that Caitlyn actually sees right through the act ("you're just saying that"), but she's so proper and also vulnerable in that situation, so she let's Vi go... Something she has a hard time processing later in the shower!
And I'm afraid one of the points of the tragedy is to show how people deal with loss, heartbreak, disaster, war, etc. so I don't think Caitlyn will go free 😭
@@tildaowen It is difficult for her to get out of the water dry. Not sure how it is in English. There is an idiom in Russian.
@@elenaekanathapetrova2282 Well, I don't know if it is one in English either, but it makes sense to. Her past and her guilt clings to Vi, it's difficult for her to leave it behind... Is that what it means?
@@tildaowen yes and more of thet. It's not only about Vi. more about the whole situation. Caitlyn was knocked out by Jinx 4 times. right? but, of course, Vai's words were more painful (
@@elenaekanathapetrova2282 oh, yes, very good point! The violence doesn't hurt Caitlyn as much as Vi's words do. Ironic that Vi is so violent otherwise (I've been told a line from the game is "Vi stands for violence")...
Really interesting analysis! I agree, I think Vi is sad because she doesn’t think it will work, and has already made her plan.
“I grew up knowing that I’m less than them.”
“You topsiders are all the same, you always find a way to screw us.”
While Vi might see that Caitlyn is different, this mindset shapes her entire attitude. The council meeting only serves to convince her.
Thanks, interesting points! Vi has met Caitlyn in the middle, but not necessarily Piltover. All those years don't go away for the sake of one pretty girl (Caitlyn is more than that, of course, but I think you get my point) or one single opportunity...
I feel there's other layers to Vi's sadness and the general lack of planning for the meeting. Vi is meeting a group she's had sincere animosity towards for her entire life and rightly so. Now she's going to the council that has neglected or violently oppressed the Undercity as long as she's known for help. Even with Cait it would be understandable she'd feel conflicted here. Will they help? Is it a betrayal to work with the oppressors? This also plays into how quick she is to dismiss the thought of negotiating and locks in on Jace as a means to her preferred solution. She wants an immediate and full force removal of the man directly destroying the Undercity when she could negotiate and help reduce the passive harm Piltover is doing. It fits her running flaw of acting before thinking and the Undercity's seeming curse to have all their potential revolutionary leaders get side tracked by entirely fair personal feelings. (It's why I love this show; they actually justify characters making bad or counter productive choices.)
On the flip side, for all her disdain for the two faced life of Piltover Caitlyn still has a fairly sheltered view of the politics. She knows it's two faced but still has a somewhat idealised view of how things work so thinks that simply presenting her case will work and the Council with acts justly. She's slipped back into The West Wing mode of thinking where speeches and principles rule. Jace's understandable concern foe the Gem being used for destruction leads him on his ironic road to weaponising hextech and inability to think about consequences overrules Caitlyns idealistic but (imo) better move for fundamental if slower reforms. Jace wants to treat the symptoms of the Undercity's problems while Cait has started to see the actual underlying causes.
Together Vi and Caitlyn present the most realistic solution (because of course they do when they're combined); Negotiation and diplomacy backed up by the ability to fight those who would use violence to hold on to power.
Arcane is a surprisingly nuanced look at the struggles of liberation movements on top of it's many other incredible feats
Hi Sam, for some reason your comment has slipped through the cracks, I'm glad I found it again, because you have so many great interpretations!
First of all, Vi being uncomfortable with the former enemy? Absolutely! That is part of what makes her uncommonly subdued in the beginning of the audience, but the true Vi rears up in the end, true to her impulsive nature as you say.
Secondly, like you, I also love how the show doesn't moralise, it shows characters' flaws and strengths equally, neither condoning or condemning their choices, but making them understandable. I SO love that aspect of the show, excellent writing! I cringe when Vi rants and storms off, but I also cringe when Caitlyn proudly holds up her head, thinking that words only will bring about change right then and there. But I totally love and understand them as characters anyway, and the fact that this meeting was so confusing and without answers, solutions or even insight into what the characters had even planned is fantastic! Arcane's writers definitely don't pander to the viewer...
"Together Vi and Caitlyn present the most realistic solution (because of course they do when they're combined); Negotiation and diplomacy backed up by the ability to fight those who would use violence to hold on to power." So true, that is what makes their love story so much more nuanced and a symbol of hope in all the misery and misfortune... But though it is an obvious symbol, they are still protrayed as regular people who fail and they do, making our investment in them even greater...
"Arcane is a surprisingly nuanced look at the struggles of liberation movements on top of it's many other incredible feats" Exactly!
9:47 we're just simping over Caitlyn at this point and i love it
Yes, guilty!
I just can't stop watching analysis vids about them! Thanks for providing more for all those thirsty CaitVi fans ♥️♥️
I think Vi was on the fence when she went to the council with Cait. But when they didn't get their support, Vi just left and wanted to indeed keep Cait safe by telling her that they aren't compatible.
So her looking down, it feels like she's thinking that she doesn't deserve this because Vi has such a strong responsibility for what happened to Powder/Jinx. So kind of in a "I'm not worthy of your praise" way I think.
Thank you, I'm so thirsty for content too that I make it myself 😂
Oh, very nice interpretation, I definitely buy that! Fits right into that massive guilt she's lugging around... Poor Vi!
@@tildaowen HAhahha I understand totally where you are coming from! Thanks again for making and sharing your thoughts on the show
@@FoxYinnyy You're very welcome 😊
So good to see another video! Your analysis is always so incisive, and a pleasure to listen to. Something that strikes me about this scene now that I've watched it a couple more times is how Vi refers to her sister as Jinx before the council, something she normally doesn't do. I can't help but wonder if this acknowledgement of the dark side of her sister, being forced to acknowledge that she failed Powder, contributes to her decision to reject Caitlyn on the logic that she doesn't want to hurt Caitlyn like she hurt Powder. Not sure how much basis there is for such a claim, but hey, theorizing's half the fun!
Thank you! And excellent theory, that makes sense to me! She only gives the name Jinx, not that she is her sister or Powder or that Vi has a history with Jinx and Silco, so she is trying assist without being too illoyal to Powder. But I think you're right, using the name Jinx can be seen as a way of acknowledging her own culpability. Which enforces her choice to "spare" Caitlyn. As if Vi sees herself as the jinx...
Way i see it is that the council and Piltover are completely oblivious of Jinx's identity: the only ones who ever saw her are Cait and Marcus (burn in hell bastard!) So for Vi giving the name Jinx means exactly giving them just a name, that can be attached to anyone in the world. I think it's one of the reasons she speaks before Cait: in her moment of confusion Cait might slips Powder's name, that is specific name that can be tied to a specific person in Zaun if investigations are conducted: so Vi comes forward fearing that, but also because she doesn't want to put Cait in the uncomfortable position of liyng to the council for her.
Even in Zaun apart from Silco, Sevika and few of their closest gang members, no one knows physically Jinx (also because she kills everyone, so no witnesses) and the fact that she is Powder, Vi's sister.
You can see how Silco keeps Powder isolated from the world, in her lair working for him, or in the ship in ep4 staying hidden in the cargo hold.
@@darthcygnus7692 well spotted, Jinx is like a ghost story, the wicked witch that will get you if you aren't careful, so saying her chosen name, doesn't put a face on her, but a way to name the fear. And fear is the reaction of the council! Apart from those you mentioned, also the Firelights know her. They've had lots of encounters with her and they say "it's her, she's here" when in the hull of the ship, and she is on the wall in the form of Powder, so Ekko must have told them who she is...
What a lovely video, Tilda! Definitely worth the wait.
While it had occurred to me that Vi might have lost her nerve with Caitlyn because she wasn’t ready, it never occurred to me that she might have made a serious and calculated decision not to pursue Caitlyn before the meeting. That makes a lot of sense! I noticed the same thing you did when Vi looks at Caitlyn in the Council meeting-she doesn’t look hopeful, she looks sad. I couldn’t put my finger on why and even thought maybe I was misreading her, but your theory really makes sense of it. She’s seeing Caitlyn be her beautiful self, thinking maybe there really could be potential for her to find a place there if Caitlyn can treat her with respect in front of the Council… and feeling like shit that she can’t actually be with her. I also just thought there was something noble and maybe even a little transactional about the way she grabbed Caitlyn’s hand. It’s not the tender gesture of a lover, it’s “You did me a solid, and now I’m going to do the same for you.” She knows she owes Caitlyn a lot, and the least she can do is not allow her to perjure herself in front of the Council.
I still worry that the writers withheld a kiss scene as some sort of posturing move for Riot next season, so fans will be like “I thought they wouldn’t let them show it, but whaddaya know?” It’s hard for me to imagine why they’d tease fans with the possibility of a kiss and then snatch it away, or even that they'd be so sassy, lol.
At the same time, personally, I think showing us an unexpected, character-driven way out of the moment everyone thinks was about to happen, and avoiding the most predictable answer to what two adult women did on a bed, would be better writing (especially considering how anticlimactic a flashback kiss would really be-it would be kind of hard to be excited for them when we already know it goes to shit a few hours later!). And as we talked about before, many cues in their behavior just don’t read like lovers yet. The feelings are there, and I think Vi fell in love with Caitlyn in earnest on that bed, but I don’t think they completely put their feelings out in the open.
I do think we might need to see the flashback, though, because some kind of explanation is required in order for viewers to know how to interpret their interactions next season. Talking around their feelings in the rain is quite different from the two of them really laying everything out on the table in the bedroom in terms of their relationship dynamic. I also think the “first kiss” is a pretty big deal for many fans, especially ones who have been waiting 10 years to learn their story, so they need to make it clear somehow that we didn’t miss that moment. (I think Amanda Overton suggested an explanation of some kind will be forthcoming when she clarified that the writers know what happened but she couldn't talk about it without spoiling S2.)
When you said a few days ago that you had a theory about what was going on with Vi in this episode, I was hoping for something major that hadn’t occurred to me yet, and you really delivered! We’ll just have to see, but your theory did actually make MORE sense out of some things I was questioning, so you’ve given me hope.
As usual, I wrote an essay, so I’ll stop here, but I loved the video!
Thank you! I was hoping you would like it and my theory 😊 I was like you, there were just some things that didn't add up, but our talks led me to putting it together...
Oh, and I think by now you know that I love your long essays and expect nothing less! 😂
But you've given me much food for thought (again) and aargh, I don't have time to reply properly right now, so it'll have wait a little (again)... 😏😳
@@tildaowen I have always sensed a sort of emotional distance in Vi at the Council meeting and in the rain scene, as opposed to Caitlyn, who was just her usual sweet self. This “vibe” never made sense to me if they consummated their feelings earlier in the day, but I couldn’t put my finger on how to explain why Vi came off that way to me. Your theory, though, makes so much sense of all the little cues I was picking up on!
I also think it makes the bedroom scene cut between Vi’s eyes and Jinx’s eyes even more meaningful. It’s already serving to highlight the irony of Vi lamenting her failure to chase Jinx’s monsters away as Jinx is literally being transformed into a monster. And there’s Vi falling in love as Jinx is suffering through one of the most painful and terrifying experiences of her life. And now we also have the potential symbolism that of course it would be Jinx getting in the way of letting us see what’s next, because perhaps that’s exactly what happens next…
(This was actually a short one for me! 😁)
One thing I don't think people often mention is that Vi and Cait, especially Vi, looked cleaned up after the bed scene. I wouldn't be surprised if they took a nap and a shower
Yeah, they did, it's obvious from their clothing. It also shows the time passing by... So yeah, a nap and a shower seems both reasonable and plausible!
I just love your thoughtful analysis. I agree with so much and can appreciate your logic and consistency with the stuff I’m not as sure of. Your take on the Caitlyn’s and Mom’s look is fresh and I love it. I went right for the “go after your girlfriend” take, but I think you’re right and that’s so impactful (and likely tragic). I think Vi is sad at the council because of Powder more than anything. As you say, she is her #1 priority. At this point she doesn’t know if Powder’s body lives or will live. She also doesn’t know, even if her body does, if Powder lives instead of Jinx. She has faith that Powder “is still in there” but the bridge had to show just how much Jinx has taken over.
The woman on the bridge was willing to kill Ekko, Vi and Caitlyn as well as herself (just Powder?). I wonder if Jinx actually was shooting at Vi. Her animosity has been directed at both but mostly at Caitlyn up to this point. Seeing Caitlyn wrap herself around Vi prior to Vi pushing her off, makes me think Caitlyn was protecting Vi because perhaps Vi was Jinx’s first target. Eventually, she would have shot them both, but is this the first time Jinx’s anger made Vi the primary target of her violence? If so, that would make Vi much less hopeful and far sadder than before. Naturally, Vi would see this as her fault for staying with Caitlyn. As you say, it would then reinforce Vi’s sole purpose in the meeting to destroy Silco’s empire and maybe giving her the chance to save Powder.
I agree that the writers have been superb and are not likely to have kept the kiss (or further physical love) off-screen. As a fan, I want to see that as much as anyone else. I’m less willing than others to call it lazy or shoddy writing if it happened on the bed and was left out of season 1 - as long as we see it in season 2 as a flashback and it is handled well for decent reasons (I give them the benefit of the doubt). Although, I really want to see the “next level” it is incredible to me how the crew has handled what we get to see from them. Vi & Cait’s romance and connection has been developed with such care and skill I think theirs is easily the most strongly visible intimate/sexual relationship in the story - despite the overt sexual scenes with Jayce/Mel.
The build of looks, gestures and touches between Cait and Vi have been more intimate and meaningful to me than any other relationship except Powder and Vi and this series does relationships phenomenally well. The “it’s been real” hug on the bridge was tender, reciprocal and filled with love. The neck rub, nuzzle, and thumb-on-cheek caress goodbye left no doubt. The caress on the bed, followed by a hand cuddle and that look they share are comfortable and confident. These aren’t two shy women unable or unwilling to express themselves to one another. They’re vulnerable with each other and supportive to each other. They’ve done such an amazing job with the looks between the two of them (or of one of them reacting to the other). Vi’s return look and the quick cut to Jinx going through a life-altering moment makes it hard for me to think that it went from that look and their hand cuddle to a nap.
I don’t think a kiss (or more) would cause Vi to change plans or would vault Caitlyn to #1 above Powder. So, even if there was more than a nap, I think you’re right about Vi’s decision as the only course of action with the council and Silco, and that she is fabricating the separation to protect Caitlyn. I don’t like it either, but I also don’t think she could stop herself if Caitlyn initiated something more after the look.
As for the lack of plan, I think you’ve nailed it. They have vastly different agendas and approaches. That would be apparent in the first few minutes of any “planning.” I think Caitlyn’s naïve optimism and lack of politicking makes her think that simply stating the truth would generate the motivation and action she desires. In her mind, the case makes itself.
I’m not as sure that Caitlyn would have clung in the rain and made Vi explain herself. We could see Caitlyn testing the physical boundaries from the shot above as she approached and reached out to Vi. Vi didn’t let her close the space between them. Caitlyn is direct at times but is also willing to determine oblique courses of action when necessary. I think she is also more likely to help others come to an agreement with her than force them to it. I think she also knows the head on approach might be less effective with Vi when Vi is as dug in as she was. Also, rejection is hard and it hurts. In the shower she had to be kicking herself and wondering if she took the wrong course. If there was more than a nap, we don’t see that flashback because 1) production wants the season 2 anticipation and 2) that wasn’t part of Caitlyn’s regret. The separation was.
Sorry, this is so long. You and this show give us so much to discuss. Thanks for sharing your time, energy and insight.
I'm probably beating a dead horse with this, but part of the reason why leaving out a kiss and showing it in S2 would indeed be, IMO, relatively shoddy writing is because it would place the emotional value of the scene on the wrong thing. Fans want to see a first kiss because it makes us feel joyful and hopeful and excited for characters that we love, but since we already know that Vi bailed on Caitlyn just a few hours later (and the events of the finale seem likely to push them even further apart for a time, at least romantically), we couldn't really feel those things the same way we would have if we'd seen the kiss in real-time. We'd already know this kiss doesn't mean they're going to be together for the foreseeable future, so the excitement many fans would feel is less about what that moment means for the characters and more about simply... getting to actually see it. It would be about Riot finally being willing to "prove" or "confirm" them as a romantic pairing and show two women kissing, and to me, that's a more artificial, hollow, extrinsic sort of excitement. No matter how beautifully it was written and animated, it would feel like the showrunners withholding something from fans to make us even more grateful to receive it later, for the sake of making Riot look good.
We had a specific set of emotions and hopes going into that original moment in the bedroom, and they cannot truly get us back to that same emotional place with a flashback when we already know what happens later. So a kiss would have been more satisfying in real-time before we knew what was going to happen later, and the rain scene would have hit harder if we'd already known for sure that they kissed. Reversing the order would dampen the emotional impact of both moments, and thus would not, IMO, be good dramatic writing. It would be a gimmicky PR stunt, or at least that's how it would feel to me.
I also think there are a lot of things that don't add up if they made their feelings clear offscreen, some of which Tilda points out in the video. Going from behavior and body language, there is no sign that these two people leveled up their physical relationship offscreen until Caitlyn says "What about us?", and that question is more open to interpretation than many fans want to allow it to be.
The writers and animators have to present these characters in an honest, authentic way that reflects what happened offscreen even if we didn't get to see it. Writing them in an artificially neutral way for the sake of "fooling" us would be bad writing. When they do clarify what happened, we have to be able to go back and see the clues we missed and think that their behavior makes sense in light of the truth. There are no clues we missed in terms of them kissing. There was a scene cut with them on a bed, Caitlyn said "What about us?", and Caitlyn angsted in the shower. That's it, and they're all flashing neon signs. It feels like they gave us a handful of clues intended to make the events on the bed seem super obvious, and yet Amanda Overton has said that discussing what happened would be a spoiler, so we're not supposed to be sure. Why make the answer that obvious and then play coy about it for the sake of a surprise that wouldn't really be surprising to anyone but casual viewers? They'd just be making something seem obvious and then providing that obvious answer later, which doesn't seem like their style! The only reason I see for them to do that is what I said above, which is basically turning their first kiss into a PR stunt to make fans fawn over Riot. I'd rather see them do something along the lines of what Tilda suggested and show us how it *didn't* happen, and then work up to a more organic, meaningful kiss between them later in the season.
As a final point, Amanda Overton has also dropped enough hints to make me think they are not going to just skip over their first kiss, and the showrunners and animators surely knew whether they were going to kiss or not when they animated the bedroom scene (because they had to in order to write and animate the characters authentically in subsequent scenes), and I just don't see them giving themselves such a physically awkward setup to work with for a flashback kiss. The way they're positioned on the bed is symbolically beautiful but not practical for kissing. Their faces are an arm's length apart, and Vi is essentially upside down with Caitlyn's knees nearly in her face. An awkward upside down Spiderman kiss where they can't even look each other in the eye properly before or after seems like a pretty ridiculous setup, and they'd have to do awkward bed gymnastics just to be able to kiss any other way. They're both exhausted, injured, and emotionally drained, and they haven't known each other very long, so I just find the positioning to be very silly for a kiss. Maybe they will indeed show us a flashback kiss and the animators will find a way to make it look natural and believable, but my own imagination has not been able to do so!
@@jubimadethis5167 I agree with a lot of what you said. It is certainly possible that it would feel cheap, gimmicky and artificial if we see it in a flashback. I understand how you personally would feel let down from your hopes and expectations from that scene and somehow cheated from an organic reaction. You're likely not to be alone. I will give them the benefit of the doubt and reserve my judgement. I may feel let down a bit if we never get to see that time gap and what happened (whether or not it's next level physical). To me, the quick cut from heartfelt bonding/caress/hand cuddle/loving look to Jinx (and eventually the council chamber) was too quick and left me wanting more -- again, not just for next level physical. This was their first alone time in relative safety. It seems unnatural for that moment to end there and become a nap or simply cleaning up. Something continued beyond the look and I hope we see it (whether or not it was a kiss). I like the way they've confirmed this romantic pairing despite the lack of next level physical but will be glad when that first kiss is shown. I do feel that there is plenty of behavior to indicate more happened in that moment (not necessarily a kiss). Cait's protection of Jinx for the sake of Vi through hesitation, and Vi's hand grab were very meaningful given their context. "What about us" is incredibly meaningful despite Vi's response. The shower scene was worth every minute of Tilda's analysis and more. Their intimacy was on a meteoric rise throughout each episode. I think this hours-long private time in Cait's room would have been fertile ground for that intimacy continuing (again, whether or not it was physical) and I hope we see it.
@@jasonmkc7797 First of all, thank you for respecting my feelings and acknowledging that there are valid points. That is unfortunately pretty rare in discussions about this topic. 😕
I agree that they need to show us what happened regardless of what it is. Not only is it the first time they've been alone and had time to have a real conversation longer than 2.5 minutes, but viewers also need that information in order to understand their interactions next season. If they kissed, it needs to be shown. I admit that if they chose to handle their first kiss that way, I might be too disgusted with the showrunners to continue watching, but plenty of other viewers would be perfectly happy with it, so they deserve to see it. And if they didn't kiss, then there is likely an interesting, character-driven reason for it that would deepen our understanding of the characters and the relationship.
I do think it's unlikely that they stayed awake for a super long time after that moment because Caitlyn's eyelids were already fluttering and drooping--I genuinely think she wanted a long nap in her own bed, but she knew she needed to help Vi process what had happened on the bridge first. As Tilda said, Amanda Overton pointed out that they're both "exhausted and frayed, emotionally and physically" for a reason! But even if they went to sleep relatively quickly (maybe even passed out mid-conversation, lol), they still may have talked later, and there may have been some interesting interactions between Vi and Caitlyn's parents, and just Vi being in such a fancy environment for the first time (at least as a guest and not a trespasser!). There's a lot of potentially interesting stuff that they just skipped right over to get us to "What about us?" and make us go 👀.
As for Vi's hand grab, I didn't read it as the gentle touch of a lover, but more of a noble gesture. Her touch is even brusque enough to have a sound effect! She knows she owes Caitlyn a lot, and the least she can do is not allow Caitlyn to perjure herself in front of the Council. I think Vi absolutely cares for Caitlyn and that played into her decision to name Jinx, but her gesture doesn't really convey tenderness to me, which we know she's quite capable of, but feels more like she's being a team player and acknowledging that Caitlyn has done her part and now it's Vi's turn. To me, Vi seems very emotionally distant from Caitlyn throughout that scene and the following one, which supports Tilda's theory that Vi has already decided not to pursue her. It's like something has shifted for Vi (but not for Caitlyn), and Caitlyn doesn't start to pick up on it until Vi says the line about "oil and water."
There's nothing to say that they still couldn't have kissed and Vi made these decisions later, but yeah, I'm definitely hoping the missing bedroom time is a bit of a red herring and their first kiss happens later in the season. I want to be excited about it, even if I know they might be about to walk into their impending doom, not see it in a flashback and be like, "Okay, so that happened. Too bad I already know Vi wasn't ready. Meh."
Very interesting discussion, Jubi and Jason! And thank you for taking the time to go over my theories in the videos so thoroughly 😊
I've actually never thought that anything happened in that bed, the first time they cut away I was annoyed, because I wanted to progress from there. The scene definitely feels like a setup for something more. But then it cut away to Jinx, and I was disappointed but thought, "oh, I guess it'll happen later then..." That's what movies and series do. They cut away the superfluous moments, not the juicy bits. I think the point right there, was not to show the development of the CaitVi relationship (though it serves as a comparison), but the Vi and Jinx/Powder relationship, which is the crux of the show. We needed to see both sisters paralleled in their pain, Vi's emotional and Jinx's physical and mental pain. And the contrast in the situations from complete safety, comfort and an element of hope, to a harsh, constricted and completely unsafe place.
What happened in the bed after the violent transition was in my opinion not important enough to show (sleeping is boring tv)...
And IF something happened apart from sleeping (that we see later), it could be one of them waking up before the other, perhaps we see Vi confessing her feelings to a sleeping Caitlyn, explaining how it can't happen between them. Maybe Cassandra corners Vi and tells her to back off?
@@tildaowen I dig your point. That cut is another example of how well Arcane uses dualism and keeps the focus on the sisters. I would love to see whatever dialogue there was in the bedroom. They could debate what they should wear to the council and I’m here for it. At this point, I’m biased and lost to Cait and Vi, so it’s difficult for me to find their interactions superfluous. But I suspect you may be right - much to my heart’s disappointment 😉
Your narration is extremely pleasant to listen to. I know that's not a very content-focused comment on my part, but it deserved to be said!
Thank you! That's definitely OK, very useful feedback for me! 😊
I agree with you that in the afternoon they did nothing in particular, maybe just sleep in fact. Also because otherwise they would have been too cruel to show nothing 😭😅
Exactly! We need to see this moment, so they wouldn't do it off screen...
When I am sure to one thing it is that the authors have no problem to be cruel to the fans (like the cliffhanger at the end of episode 9). But I agree that their was no kiss or more between Vi and Caitlyn in the bedroom.
@@thomasewald7905 I agree, they're very cruel to us (tragedy and all), but the writing is so good otherwise, it just wouldn't make sense to not show a kiss in that moment, what would be the point of that? It would be even more cruel to cement their relationship with a kiss and then break them up right after...
Your interpretations are amazing 🙏
Thanks that means a lot!
Excellent video Tilda Owen. Excellent analysis on both Vi and Caitlyn's character, personality, choices, wishes, desires and actions. As I said before, it never occur to me that there's more to the scenes and characters in Arcane: League of Legends than meets the eye. I still like how you see things differently and analyze carefully about these things. You got me off guard when you argued about Caitlyn and her mom's little moment in the council. As much as like Mrs. Kirimman acknowledging Vi and Caitlyn's relationship, but since it's a non-verbal exchange between mother and daughter, that can be a possibility. I also like how you interpreted Vi's facial expression at the council and struggle with herself in terms of her motivation. For me, their bed scene maybe full of talking (sharing of experiences) and of course some sleeping between Vi and Caitlyn. And I agree with you, despite the challenges, Vi and Caitlyn totally deserve each. And of course, many of us subscribe and support your TH-cam channel. It's unique, has great content, and impressive analysis. For my suggestions, perhaps you can do the scenes where Jinx invites (kidnaps) everyone to tea, and Silco meeting Jayce and the latter contemplating at Vander's statue. And don't forget my previous suggestions! Overall, excellent video Tilda Owen. Excellent work.
Thank you! And I do keep your ideas in mind, especially the chats we've had about the show 😊 But when it comes to making more videos, I'm extremely picky, because it takes SO long for me to make the videos (being elsewhere employed and all that). So I have to be very invested in the topic for me to use all my spare time on it. So I may get to some of the things you suggested, but not yet. I hope that's OK!
And I think you're right, it's also likely that they talked some more in the bed... Or maybe Vi did, because so far Caitlyn has said very little about herself, she needs to be more open going forward!
@@tildaowen You know, in my mind, Caitlyn may have open up about herself to Vi, maybe after that iconic cheek stroke, assurance of her belief that it wasn't Vi's fault about what happened to Jinx and Vi asking Caitlyn about her life. To me, this added cute moment is very nice for me inside my head. Afterall, it's Caitlyn's turn to open up and be vulnerable to Vi.
@@monteagudoabeezekieljardie7884 Exactly, that plays out well in my head too (but I sure as hell would like to see it!)
I think that next season along with a kiss and some are they or aren’t they dating confusion for both of them, I do hope that at one point or another, Caitlyn acknowledges that they are not oil and water, but blood and water. Maybe not meant to be, but once put together, they mix rather nicely. Also, I agree in that I do not think that they got “up to something” in the bedroom, they probably cleaned themselves up, which, if they went in the shower (separately) it could have given Vi a chance to see Caitlyn, both in a towel but also messy and vulnerable which hasn’t been shown all that much from either of them. Also at some point Caitlyn had to have changed into her uniform, likely with Vi in the room 😏
I can't wait to see next season how they get them together, because I firmly believe they will! ❤️ Because oil and water mixes just fine, it just takes a lot of work and heat (which they have! 😉). But I don't think Piltover/Zaun is necessarily a world where you go on dates... The dire circumstances make it so that you're together or you're not. Do or do not. There is no try... (sorry that was a Star Wars quote, but it fit nicely! 😂) Once they are assured of each other's feelings, the rest is history (unless they are torn apart 😳)
Thanks again for a great video. I enjoyed it and found a lot of our conversation in it, especially that there was no plan about the appearance of Vi and Caitlyn in front of the council. The argument of exaustion and that they had a long nap before it might be right even it came before not to my mind. Also that it was for Vi only an entrance to the council to seek the ally who might help her to get rid of Silco fits to her behavior, but in Caitlyns actions their might have also been a kind of rebellion to become more independent from her helicopter mom. First she let herself been introduced by her mom and after telling her before in privacy that she and the council are responsible for everything going wrong in the Undercity she tells these ridicoulous people in the council directly to their faces that their incompetence lead to this results? To which other result should this have lead? It was no plan, it told them to clear their shit and take the responsibility as they should already had taken it years before instead looking selfish for their own advantage and interests. I would really loved to hear Caitlyn talk and argue with Mel and Heimerdinger. These conversations would have been interesting. Maybe for Heimerdinger she would have been the first person who explains to him that his lazy and hedonistic behavior lead to all that events and I would liked to hear his reasons for his inactivity in the past. On the other side I would have liked to hear Mel teaching Caitlyn some things over politics and what the real world in the council is like. Caitlyn is the naive good person who would like to make the world a better place and seeks help in authorities but has herself nearly no answer how to achieve any change. Maybe this might come in season 2
Thanks, Thomas, I'm glad you noticed the nods in there for you 😊
Yes, despite Caitlyn learning so much with Vi, her horizon expanding enormously, she is still naive going into that meeting, thinking the facts will automatically create change. It would have been a much better approach to see Jayce alone or perhaps Mel as you say.
I think Caitlyn will interact with both Ekko and Heimerdinger in the next season, should be interesting to see!
@@tildaowen I do not really think that this kind of conversation will bring any good now. I think through to Jinx attack the positions are hardened now and political hardliners with their own intentions (like Mels Mom) will come into positions of power and in Zaun their is a power vacuum after Silcos death. I ask myself who will close the gap in delivering shimmer to the lanes. At the moment the Zaun will have a big problem with many addicted inhabitants who are on turkey. and their is nearly no medical healthcare in Zaun.
@@thomasewald7905 oh yes, next season there will be a power vacuum and a power play in both Piltover and the undercity! Will Sevika step up? I doubt Jinx will, she seeks approval and tech not power... And who will survive the blast? Will Caitlyn become sheriff right away or later? I think like you that Embessa Medarda will play a larger role... And most likely Vi and Caitlyn will be hunting Jinx in a plot parallel to the power struggles... (if the teaser is any indication...)
@@tildaowen I can not believe that Jinx will be the leader of the lanes. At first I guess most people do not respect her. For nearly everyone who knows her she was the incorporation of chaos and destruction. She has no power base. I can not believe that their is anyone in Zaun who wants to follow her orders. Sevika might try to follow after Silcos dead. Her renomee is much better than Jinx and she is widely known as Silcos nr. 1. It depends on her ambitions. I do not think that she wants to lead the Undercity. I guess we will see new characters fighting for Silcos position. Maybe a successor might try to use Jinx as a pawn behind him to intimidate his opposition. Caitlyns role will also depending on the Survivors of the assassination atempt and her future role in Piltover. Vi will have to come clear to Jinx actions and will finally follow and help Caitlyn.
@@thomasewald7905 I agree, not only would Jinx not want to lead, nobody wants to follow her! And I also think that Sevika is a number 2 more than the boss herself, but she does seem to be next in line...
As for Vi and Caitlyn, a lot is rather open as to which way it could go, depending on how the Jinx situation goes... But I'm quite sure we'll some sort of progress in their relationship, but probably slowly and with heartbreak in between...
I wonder why Jace became more aggressive and open to more drastic solutions. Its probably his confidence in hextech, which has been overwhelmingly successful and has not let him down so far. I also think Vis plan against Silco would have been the best (or rather the least bad) option. Great video!
Another tasty analysis treat. I love these videos. Please keep them coming!
Thank you! Already working on the next, but it will take a while before it's done...
I love ur videos !! Its becoming a habit to watch an arcane analysis video of yours as soon as im working on something haha
Thanks a lot! I'm glad they can be watched more than once!
Thank you for another great video! I thoroughly enjoy your listening to your insightful analysis.
Thank you! That means a lot 😊
Great video as always! ❤️
Keep up the good work!
Thank you! I will 😊
Very insightful ! Thank you. I understand so much more now, and look even more forward to season 2
Thank you that means a lot! And me too, can't wait! 😊
Great video, love and agree with your insights. Looking forward to more.
Thanks a lot! 😊
Absolutely brilliant video, I was a bit confused about that scene. So thanks for clearing things up.
Thank you, you're very welcome! 😊
Thank you for another lovely, thoughtful and entertaining analysis!
Thanks for watching 😊
I love your voice so much! Great analysis!
Thank you, cheap point but I'll take it! 😉
Regarding Vi's sadness at the council meeting, your interpretation really hit a note for me. I had been wondering about it for a while. My first inclination (before seeing your video) was that it reminded me of her expression at the end of episode 2 and tried to understand it in relation to that.
I now see how overwhelmed Vi is about everything she has just learned about Caitlyn, her own feelings, and the experiences of the past few days. Additionally, the skin under Vi's eyes seems darker than in the bedroom scene, whereas Caitlyn seems overall refreshed. My guess is that Caitlyn did get some proper rest that afternoon, while Vi brooded sleeplessly over the incompatibility of keeping both Caitlyn and Jinx in her life, whether she deserves Caitlyn, and everything else.
That being said, I am not sure that Vi had already chosen to distance from Caitlyn, especially so immediately after the council meeting. Any council-aligned plan for dealing with Silco would involve continued partnership for a while, and it's not certain at that time that Jinx is still alive. Unfortunately, the outcome of the council meeting pushes her into plans that required immediate distancing. To me, the rain scene still works in this interpretation because Vi was indeed emotionally preparing for separation (instead of sleeping)... Anyway, still mulling over it all...
Thank you for your analysis videos. They are some of my favorites, and I look forward to all the rest!
@Ala_Emi Sorry, your comment was in the spam section, have no idea why (there's like nothing untoward about your comment IMO!).
Thank you for your excellent comment. "Additionally, the skin under Vi's eyes seems darker than in the bedroom scene, whereas Caitlyn seems overall refreshed. My guess is that Caitlyn did get some proper rest that afternoon, while Vi brooded sleeplessly over the incompatibility of keeping both Caitlyn and Jinx in her life, whether she deserves Caitlyn, and everything else." OMG, I rushed back to watch parts of episode 8 again and I think you're right, Vi's bags under her eyes are deeper, she probably didn't rest as much as Caitlyn did. I make a point in my upcoming video that in the bed scene, Caitlyn is right where she wants to be. So she probably sleeps soundly, whereas Vi has numerous things on her mind... Has she made the decision to leave Caitlyn immediately after the meeting? No, I don't think so. I think that Vi realises Caitlyn's feelings to some extent as well as her own in the bed scene. She sees no future in it, or doesn't think she deserves Caitlyn, she probably feels she will drag her down. But I don't think she has put a timeline on it... The events at the council sort of push the agenda...
@@tildaowen I did post several comments on your videos over the course of a few days, and I don't comment much generally, so perhaps TH-cam flagged them. No worries!
Thank you for taking the time to respond to everything! I'm glad I was able to contribute something to your appreciation of the show :)
Of course, your comments were really interesting and made me go back and see new things in the show so thank you! 😊👍
This is too funny. I watched this episode yesterday and had the exact thought "what exactly was their plan here" and then this video pops into my feed. Great insight once again!
Thank you, it's quite the conundrum and still more questions that are unaswered (like if Caitlyn would have negotiated with Silco???)
@@tildaowen I would have loved to see that scene! I'm convinced Caitlyn could melt anyone's icy heart.
@@blurrble5 she has definitely melted mine!
@@tildaowen same!
Hello. New subscriber here. Watched some essays about Arcane but your channel is the first one I'm subbed. Thank you for all videos you made, they are sweet, genuine and especially some of the parts I've never thought about made much sense to me. It's also like listening Caitlyn herself, wonderful voice!
About the topic, I think Vi left the whole audience to Caitlyn and wanted to see where it'll go from there. Since she heard mostly all of Caitlyn's intentions from the start, that she wants to find Silco, tie all of this up to him, and (surprisingly for Vi) that she wants to help the Undercity and Ekko's community. And she even gives her sisters 'new' name up herself to Jayce for some reason. But then, things happened, hopes shattered, Vi left to see Jayce after leaving Caitlyn sad and bring violence on the table again to solve problems (which worked a little bit but at a heavy cost, a cost that made Jayce very uncomfortable. But he had a conclusion about a possible war, a risk calculation as a scientist should look for).
In Season 2, we will definitely see Jayce and Viktor from that pile of ash that was the Council. Vi chose Jayce for once, I don't know if they'll meet again under same circumstances. Only Vi wanted to attack Silco directly. Jayce was "influenced" (like he always has in the whole s1). We know that Caitlyn doesn't want more violence, and also Viktor doesn't want that too (There's always a choice.). At least he didn't until the attack, will see if that's gonna change his (and Jayce's) perspective about not making weapons.
Looking forward for more Arcane essays! Thank you again!
Thank you, glad you like my videos 😊
I think Jayce is actually more into all out war with Zaun/Silco than Vi is, because she doesn't attack him directly, as Jayce practically suggests, but instead indirectly through shimmer...
Vi only gives Jinx's name, and not anything more, so she's not completely backstabbing Powder in that moment, but more saving Caitlyn from perjuring herself...
I think you're right that Jayce and Viktor will survive the bomb, and perhaps Mel...
@@tildaowen Yes, that's what Vi said to Silco, about crumbling his empire first. And that was just the start as Vi says Jayce that "they've only scratched the surface". But he sees the possible outcome when he accidentally kills one boy and suddenly doesn't want a war (rightly so). And Jayce does whoever else that close to him wants, at least that's what he did until the end of S1, apart from act 1 where he pursues only his work. But probably it'll change in the next season.
Vi wants what we all want in the end. Get Powder back and not lose Caitlyn in the process. But she sees that their ways are seperated at the bridge, before the Ekko fight scene. So I thought that, the scene where Vi gives Jinx' name, she really gives Powder up as well for some reason. The reason I say it this way is because Vi always thinks that she'll solve all the problems herself, except Jinx, after she saw what her sister become. She knows the authorities want her locked up, why give the name directly? Saving Caitlyn is a bonus.
Oh, I see zero chance of Mel being alive after the explosion. It went directly to her side. Jayce and especially mother Medarda will want heads for this. She wanted war, now there'll be two at her hands.
@@thndrr so many questions going into the second season, it will be so exciting to see what comes of them...!
I'm not sure about Mel dying, there are two options as I see it: either she dies and this is the setup for her mother getting a larger role, her going on a rampage, war, etc. Or: whatever that thing is on her back that lights up, maybe it's magic and saves her life (lots of theories about this). I have wondered why the show is called Arcane, since so little magic is in it... Hextech would make more sense? Or maybe this indicates that the show will branch out from not just Hextech but to actual magical objects and mages (like the one who saves Jayce and who figure in Heimerdinger's visions of the past)... What do you think?
I actually think it could be really interesting to have Mel survive, but be horribly disfigured... She used her beauty so much as a political tool!
@@tildaowen Yes, it'll be worth to wait I'm sure. There are so many questions like you said! This show is great, maybe better than great even!
If mother gets a larger role, maybe Noxus will get on screen too. She'll need Jayce for an accelerated weapons research. "The mind hiding behind the body" will unfold just like she wanted, but again, at a high cost named Mel. But she's so cold and calculated about life, I'm not sure how she'll really get upset about that. She's so fixated about Noxus. Even the "because you've weakened me!" line only has a manipulative purpose in my opinion. Mel's brother Kino is gone, but she only says that a man who has connections ended him, and then "we need that weapon" line comes. I can't see her care enough for her children, she even expelled young Mel. Even if she cares as a mother, she surpresses those motherly feelings for leadership purposes.
But our golden girl may has golden(?) magic under her belt too. That's a theory I overlooked and it might work! If she stays crippled after the attack, I don't think Mel can live up to her reputation. Like you said, she uses her beauty, she has brains and a strong mind that can mostly control the feelings too but she has ultimate beauty standards, her psyche couldn't stay the same. And if it happens, that's on a Zaunite, which Jayce brokered peace just new. Oof! So many possibilities!
Hexcores, Hextech, Arcane... Probably players of LoL knows much about them. Me, I don't know anything about the lore, never played that game. I mainly want to see our three girls get the peace and happiness they deserve in the end (which probably isn't gonna happen because of LoL lore). Hextech uses Hexcores, which only Heimerdinger scares of them but he only talks blurry about what really happened with them in the past. Who were the wrong hands? Are that mage who saved mother's life and the mages who the mechanic councilor and the lady with gears around her neck scared about the same type? What are those crystals? How those crystals are created? How Jayce acquired them? Yes, we are in the dark about the magic called Arcane, at the show called Arcane. Another question bundle! How nice!
So, since Vi does not punch to kill, nor Caitlyn shoots to kill = Then, they both use their strengths to protect !! :D
Precisely 😊
Waiting for more videos from u !!!! Also ur voice does look so much similar to Caitlyn
Thank you, I work hard on them! 😊 Not the voice, though, it's home grown, so I'm sure it's the accent that's making me sound like Caitlyn 😉
Jeez, I admire you more and more with each of your new videos!
I wonder, if Cassandra changed her view on Zaun after Caitlyn's speeches (both at home and at the Counsil). I wonder, if she would like to make it better. Because of her reaction at Jayce allyence with Silco, no, I don't think so (but it's Silco, like, c'mon, I can't blame her. I can't blame her even though her ignorance's the part of the reason Zaun suffers).
It's still nice to think why Cassandra behaived the way she did. I'm fond of your inperpretation of her nod! Never thought of that this way.
Personally, I think Cassandra aknowelaged Vi wouldn't hurt her baby girl. She probably had checked on Cait ay least once and seen them sleeping together, so, maybe, it was like "Alright. Maybe this stray brat is not that bad, if she managed to keep my daughter safe till this moment". But these are mostly my headcanons and fantasies.
Cassandra kinda reminds me of Ambessa. Yes, it sounds ridiculous, but hear me out. They both are mama bears, who protect their cubs. Ambessa couldn't make neccessary decisions, so her banished Mel from dangerous and cruel Noxis to much "softer" land overseas, but Cassandra does everything in her power to shelter, to sheld Caitlyn even when Cait took her chances and became an inforcer.
So the nod at the Counsil not only means Cassandra's acknowelage of her daughter's abilities, but it means Cassanda is now more confident in Cait and in herself as a parent, like, maybe now it is time to let your little bird fly freely.
To be honest, all I wanted to write is "THEY WERE SLEEEEEEEEPIIIIING. Like, guys, sex is nice (I think. I dnk), but Cait has a hole in her leg, and our gals haven't slept and showered in days" but then You said it and I bloody cracked laughitng. Like, FINALLY. You woke up the day you were recording it and chose to speek facts language.
Also, loved these little jokes about digging and Caitlyn supermacy. Tho, the "Caitlyn supermacy" part is not a joke, and I could never agree with you more.
Thank you for such a golden content, dear Tilda Owen!
Thank you so much! I'm glad you agree with many of my points, especially the sleeping thing, because that scene or what comes between that and the council scene has just had too much focus, which it doesn't merit at all! And yes, Caitlyn was injured! I forgot, thank you for mentioning that, another good reason for not doing the deed...
I also see your comparison to Embessa, the show has several over protective mothers, even Jayce's mother. Embessa is the most extreme, though. Cassandra is misguided in the way she raises Caitlyn, because she bases it on her own ideas of what a Kiramman should be and do, and doesn't see Caitlyn as she is... Embessa is way more cruel in her approach. Hmm, a little bit like Vi actually... She hurts Powder (when trying to save Vander) and Caitlyn for their own good, because she thinks they are better off, staying behind and away from her... Sad, extreme and misguided in my opinion!
@@tildaowen honestly, misguidence is the first topic that stood out to me in this show (even before trauma, yes, cause, you know, "it's for conflict, it's expected"). Family is important to me, even when things are not healthy. Intented or not.
Vander wanted Vi to be safe and responsable, but put a sence of guilt in her.
Cassandra wants Caitlyn to be safe, but sees Kiramman first, not her baby girl. Tobias wants her to be safe, but isolates her (it was him who forbit her to talk to Jayce).
Silco... well, shit. I don't share the fandom's sympathy for him, cause fuck him (exuse my language). Does he love Jinx? Of course. More then his cause? Yes but no? (It's "you're perfect", like a perfect image of Zaun, not "i love you"). Does Jinx love him? Yes.
Does Jinx love Vi? Yes. At.least she cares for her. Does Vi love Jinx? Yes. She may fear her (and for her), but she does.
Are these family types healthy? Not. Do these people still love each other? I think, yes.
And it's something that hit me hard when I was watching Arcane. It felt personal and realistic, and heartbreaking.
You may love your family, friends. Sometimes you just can't do it properly.
But it's okay, in some way? As Love (not possession) is difficult. It takes time, tenderness and patience. It takes self-improvement. Healing.
And many characters just don't have power to do so. Like they want to hug, to coress, but the hands are broken. This is a tragedy.
And it's another reason to treasure Caitlyn, I think? (Like I need reasons to like her, lol) She knows it. She has troubles with her mom, but at the Conselora there is no antagonizing between them. In the very end there is raw sorrow and pain in Cait's expression.
Thank you❤
Oh, sorry, this last comment somehow disappeared on my phone, I had to dig around on my PC to find it... I'm glad I did, because THANK YOU! You have SO many good points, and they speak right into the video I'm making about Caitlyn. Yay, you're inspiring me!
"You may love your family, friends. Sometimes you just can't do it properly. But it's okay, in some way? As Love (not possession) is difficult. It takes time, tenderness and patience. It takes self-improvement. Healing. And many characters just don't have power to do so. Like they want to hug, to coress, but the hands are broken. This is a tragedy." I agree completely! And it applies on all of the family situations you mention.
I was looking into Caitlyn's family dynamic and how she was trying to shake her parents' influence, quarrelling with her mother, and I was thinking: "Why doesn't she just leave? She's probably in her mid-20s, why is she still living at home?" Love is the answer (love is ALWAYS the answer, somehow...)! Her parents love her, they're just overbearing and misguided, and Caitlyn loves them, though she's feels constricted by them. She is tolerant and sees the good in them despite everything, the way she sees good in everyone. Such as Huck, the horribly disfigured Shimmer addict, whom she hugs (Huck --> hug = his sole purpose in the show???). Her hands aren't broken, she has love and compassion enough to give, and the undercity and Vi are starving!
@@tildaowen oh, it's okay! YT functions weirdly sometimes. I'm glad to hear (or read, I suppose) that my words have affected You that way. After all, I do enjoy Your videos and the passion You put in Youe scripts. So, yeah, I'm glad all this insiratipn thing is mutual! XD
Oh, we'ra getting a Caitlyn video 👁👄👁 YAAAAS!!!! Kirammans' dinamic sounds like an onion - it has layers and layers writers, composers, animators and directors put in these character. To be honest, I was stunned with Cassandra's mimic when she and Caitlyn was speaking after the explosions on the bridge. That moment when Caitlyn swears, Cassandra snaps, they glares at each other (so similar in their mimic, expressions, posture, but so antogonised). And then Cassandra exhaels, looks around, glances at her daughter's wound... It IS important, because there is no place for improvisation in animation. Every little exheal, glance, gesture was scripted, was thought through. That's where I think Cassandra rethinks her approatch to her baby girl.
In addition, speaking of Kirammans' family dinamic. I've just realised it (and the first thing I did was sit in front of laptop to write to You about this XD) how Cass and Tobias are fully and formally dressed when they "busted" the girls. It was early in the morning (in example, Jayce was still asleep), but they seemed like they hadn't slept. Maybe, it's their domestic look, idk, but something's telling me the parents were freaked out when they had realized Caitlyn run away (and broke several laws, add to that), so they had insomnia or a brainstorm of how to find Cait (when, you know, THE GEMSTONE WAS AT THE HANDS OF ZAUNITS?????). Also, Cassandra and Tobias have bags under their eyes.
Oh, I love them so much. And I love Your content and the way You interact with each one of us. It's quite touching.
I'm hyped for that video! Best of wishes, dear Tilda Owen. Please, take care of yourself!
@@user-qr1cw5zy2u I agree! The way Caitlyn's father reacts ("we were so worried!") tells me they've been up for a long time, worrying about her. The mother just doesn't know how to express it to Caitlyn, so she reacts with the typical adult-scolds-the-child-that-is-home-safe instead of doing like Tobias (it fits with your thoughts on misguidance and love...).
And definitely when it's animated, everything is thought through and scripted especially in Arcane, so we can read SO much into the smallest details. Which is also why my video about Caitlyn before meeting Vi is going to be about 30 mins, despite Caitlyn having few minutes of screen time... 😏🙄😂
And thank you, interacting and commenting is almost the best part of the whole thing 😊
Vi is taking on a huge burden of responsibility.. And she already left Powder on the bridge again. This looks like a bad habit or kind of addiction.. because she didn't have much choice but she have a lot of guilt.
Later Caitlyn told: “What happened to her, it's not your fault.”
But redemption didn’t come. That only means Caitlyn doesn't blame Vi.
And to the final Jinx told: “he (Silko) didn't make Jinx. You did.”
I'm sure those words went deeper into her heart. first of all because of guilt. secondly because of the depth of their connection. Powder for many years was her only close person.
Oh yes, guilt combined with her sense of responsibility is definitely Vi's downfall!
plus the death of Silko himself .. this greatly changes the picture. Vi remains in ruins(
@@elenaekanathapetrova2282 Well, now she has no one to punch... Unless she finds Sevika again... And I think Caitlyn wants to do some punching going forward!
@@tildaowen Arcane shows the characters in dynamics. If Jinx has already gone through the main transformation, then Caitlyn and Vi are in the process. I think everyone has their point of no return.. if you pass it, then back - the path to nowhere. but it's still not clear what's ahead. we see trends... Cailyn will definitely want to fight...
Savika said that “it's only a matter of time before you implode
and Silco finally gets the message
that you're about as good for our cause as you were for your family.”
almost so it happened.. Jinx is dangerous for her fathers and others
@@elenaekanathapetrova2282 exactly
It would be cool to see a video about your theories or what would you like to see in season 2
And I heard that in the lore of League of Legends Vi becomes an enforcer? I wonder how are they goin to adapt that
Thank you for the vote of confidence, but I it's unlikely that I'll make such a video. I'd like to stick to what I can actually see and analyse (or the gaps between scenes) than speculate as to what will happen in season 2... Oh, I do speculate, hope and worry, but I'm lousy at doing it analytically and systematically. Sorry!
In the Lore they are known as Piltover's Finest. Caitlin is the Sheriff of Piltover and Vi is an enforcer that acts directly as her right hand and not just some beat cop. It's mostly inferred that it's because only Caitlin can contain and direct her with the extremely subtle hints being that part of that comes from them dating each other. (In one story Caitlyn acquires a map of Piltover and says that even Vi wouldn't get lost if she had such a map. Making a subtle reference to part of the nature of their relationship) Though do notice that in the show after Season 1 the current Sheriff of Piltover is dead and someone needs to replace him. Maybe a rich girl with good intentions and council level connections could get it. And maybe bring her feisty pink haired girlfriend along.
@@steffanhymer1285 I've heard this, and I think sheriff is somewhere in Caitlyn's future... I'm not sure when though. Vi becoming an enforcer is very hard for me to believe... It'll take time and even then at most a consultant or something similar... Dating Caitlyn? Absolutely! 😊
@@tildaowen if it helps it's often believed Vi's title as an enforcer is largely so she can act as Caitlin's front line and muscle while being able to beat people with the law on her side. The enforcer title is for show. She isn't exactly there to be a cop. She's there to back up Caitlin and needs to enforcer title to help Caitlin keep order as MORE than just the Sheriff's girlfriend that has a habit of beating up criminals. Originally speaking. So think of it like this. She isn't Piltover's Enforcer. She is Caitlin's Enforcer.
@@steffanhymer1285 Thank you, that makes more sense to me. Because Vi is already the equivalent of Caitlyn's informant about the undercity and she is still going to need her in that capacity going forward...
If you have ever walked into a room where you are not wanted.........you get the Vi/Council scene.
Yup! They listen, but only when it's Caitlyn talking, once Vi opens her mouth they tune her out... It does, however, also have something to do with the fact that she starts yelling and accusing... Anyway, nothing good comes out of the meeting except Vi being introduced to Jayce (but arguably that's not necessarily good...)
I usually don’t type long ass comments, mainly because it tires me so. But seeing as how much I am into this series and watching your analysis, I couldn't help myself but also point out some things I would have liked to see or maybe some theories of my own. If anyone reads, thanks!
So, I think, the first time vi developed feelings for caitlyn, was not during the brothel scene, but much before that. I think when cait helped her escape that was the first time we saw vi give one of those irresistible puppy-eye looks. She not only didn’t expect a pilty to actually release her and help her find proof against silco but also vi was enthralled that cait chose to trust her putting her career in line. This was the moment her guard started to come down. After that we see vi time and again tries to push cait to the limit to see if she is in fact like all other enforcers, just asshole criminals in shiny uniforms. But she was not and vi found that soon enough when cait again rescued her from sevika. Skipping ahead, when they arrived at cait’s house, both were tired as mentioned in the video and the tweets from the writers, so yes i also think they took a rest throughout the afternoon. Vi by that point knew that cait gave her those rays of hope and happiness and that after all these suffering years she also has a right to put herself and her life ahead of everything else that she so desperately tried to do like rescue powder, protecting ekko, mylo, claggor and having revenge on silco. But we know vi she is not about to forsake vander’s last promise. So as was pointed out in the video, vi decides to leave cait to protect her and go and find powder. So here is my theory, after waking up they do make a plan albeit not a great one mainly because they have different approaches to solving this situation. Their plan was to focus the attention of the council towards silco the man behind it all and not towards the gemstone thief(aka jinx). Before in episode 6 we see that vi says to cait that “it never works, it never has you topsiders always find a way to screw us”; so maybe cait was trying to convince vi that after coming all this way they had to persuade the council to see the facts as they are. But vi was not fully convinced as seen from her sudden lash towards the council members. Also I think during their planning jinx came up (ofc) but both of them chose not to discuss about it. So, before going to the council cait was pretty confident that this time silco might be arrested but vi on the other hand being vi ofc, was not, and was ready to leave cait and go do it herself hence the sadness on her face during the council audience meeting. But her sadness deepens when cait again points out that we have failed her in countless ways, as vi realises again that leaving cait behind means she may not ever be able to love someone like that. All this however goes south upon jayce mentioning the bomb as pointed in the video which i also agree with..
Also why didn’t vi just took caitlyn with her instead of ‘protecting her’ as we can see cait is an excellent shot! Why not take the risk, be with the person that makes you happy and stop being the tragic hero for one second. But i guess now their romantic relationship is going to be inevitable in season2… Anyways great video i really liked it thanks!
Thank you for your interesting interpretation! If you've seen my video about Vi, you know that I believe they fall in love not from the beginning but gradually through some of the moments you mention...
But I think your theory about Vi and Caitlyn agreeing not to talk of Jinx and instead focus on Silco makes sense. That could also explain Caitlyn's hesitation, not wanting to enter into that area as agreed, but not knowing how to avoid it. And then Vi steps in to try and move along, but Jayce is unstoppable at this point...
And yes, I believe things will definitely progress between them in season 2!
I completely agree with you that Vi and Caitlyn just rested and slept after everything that happened.
They didn't have time to prepar a presentation and discuss it. We saw that Caitlyn's speech was a surprise for Vi.
Caitlyn didn't know how things worked in Zaun and just followed Vi. This is something new for her. Both Vi and Caitlyn are not getting used to working in pairs. until it goes smoothly. and they both want to protect each other. and it slows them down.
I absolutely agree with your interpretation of the exchange of glances between Caitlyn and her mother.
I think Caitlyn is used to planning things.. thanks to Vi she has become more spontaneous. she trusts her intuition more than before and crosses the red line again and again..
and maybe more than it should. Vi leaves, she still asks how about us. because it feels that this "us" exists
I think you're right, neither Vi nor Caitlyn is used to working as a team. So they're not very good at it...
But I actually don't see Caitlyn as a planner, she is a detective and therefore an analyst, but she acts on impulses and gut feelings, like the great conspiracy, going to the prison late at night, releasing Vi, and that's before Vi has an impact on her... On the other hand one would assume that Vi has had all the time in the world to plan while in prison... But that's how fate works, the unexpected, seemingly random events happen that throw off all plans... Caitlyn and Vi hooking up is such an event and it creates loads of ripple effects for Vi, for Caitlyn, for Jinx, for the undercity and Piltover...
@@tildaowen Yes! You are right. Caitlyn followed to her detective instincts and realized how everything works in the undercity. but in the beginning she was not comfortable with this and Vi's influence helped her.
Yes, I think Vi is upset that her dreams are crumbling. And she doesn't see Caitlyn as someone who can help ( to put it mildly..) Rather, her experience has shown the opposite. If we're talking about reuniting with her sister.
Vi was literally between two fires) and she definitely initially decided that she would go alone.
Vi already left Caitlyn on the bridge. Her intention has not changed, but the breakup was more dramatic for both..
@@tildaowen It is interesting. We see that both Vi and Caitlyn have doubts about each other. They say them in the scene where they are both tied . And this is also a sign of more trust.
Caitlyn showed less of her doubts. I mean didn't say them but it was on her face. She is not a very good actress.
Because she knew that Vi had a lot of reason to distrust her. Caitlyn tried to show by her actions that she could be trusted. She took a deep breath and moved on.)
I think there are still some doubts between them.
@@elenaekanathapetrova2282 oh, Caitlyn can definitely help Vi, mostly on a personal level, and though I think Vi knows this, she chooses to see Caitlyn not as a helping hand, but as yet another person to protect...
@@elenaekanathapetrova2282 of course there are, they've kept things from each other and haven't had the talk yet...
I love your videos, i must say that they are very relaxing, your voice is beautiful and your analyzes is so very well done!
I have a proposition, could you do an video about strictly End of season 1? I would really love to watch it!
Thank you 😊 Do you mean just the tea party or all of episode 9? The latter would be quite the undertaking!
@@tildaowen I mean all of episode 9, I recently rewatched arcane my ... 6th time (Yea lol) and it came to my mind that maybe you would do a video about it, and maybe I could better understand the last episode.
Thanks for answering me!
@@schadeance6928 I don't think I can do the whole episode, but I'll consider looking at the tea party in depth. I have a few other ideas to do first though... 😊
@@tildaowen Sure, I understand!
I don't think Vi's and Caitlyn's plans are that misaligned as you make them out to be. VI's plan on how to attack silco is much less rash and agressive as jayce's. Let's put it this way: jayce had no plan, even before he though the council would be on board. He'd just have waltzed in Silco's office with an army, drawing attention from the entire undercity and creating a real full scale resistence in the process.
Vi's plan is a targeted attack solely on the less well guarded shimmer factory that would cause silco's people to turn on him. And let's be honest: all that one enforcer had to do was not let a damn kid slip away to hit a big red button right in front of you, and nobody would've been seriously hurt. I think Caitlyn would be down for that plan, atleast if Vi got rid of her naïve idea that you could just arrest a crime boss in own house.
Still wanted to protect cait tho, so she left her out.
I agree with this and was on the verge of writing out something similar, so your comment saved me the trouble! Caitlyn gets upset when Jayce starts talking about invading the undercity outright, saying there a good people down there. Vi doesn’t react negatively to anything Caitlyn says about this, so I don’t think she disagrees with Cait not wanting the Council to just attack Zaun. As you said, Vi wants a more targeted attack against Silco, not a large scale attack on the undercity, so it’s realizing that they want to negotiate peace *with Silco* that sets her off.
I see what you mean, Mathies and Jubi, excellent points! Maybe Vi and Caitlyn aren't as misaligned as I make it out to be in the video. Mathies, you say that Jayce would "just have waltzed in Silco's office with an army, drawing attention from the entire undercity and creating a real full scale resistence in the process." And I agree with you, he's in reaction mode (to the dead bodies on the bridge), not planning or thinking long term as he is later when he negotiates. "Vi's plan is a targeted attack solely on the less well guarded shimmer factory that would cause silco's people to turn on him." Absolutely, Vi's plan puts Jayce on a much better course of action, which incidently also aligns with Caitlyns' goals too, she also wants to get rid of shimmer.
So why not invite Caitlyn to that meeting? Or the confrontation? I don't think it's all about protecting Caitlyn, because give Caitlyn a new rifle and a high vantage point, and she will hold her own in that shimmer factory (it's clearly indicated that she's a much better shot than the average enforcer)!
I think she's not invited both because of keeping her safe, but also keeping her conscience safe. She CAN take out all those people at the shimmer factory, but will her conscience let her? And how would she have taken it, if a child died on her watch? I think not just Vi wants to spare her positive mind of that, but also the writers... Keep her innocent a little longer. Maybe, I don't know lots of speculation here!
I'm really at a loss as to Caitlyn's "plan" if there ever was one (one assumes there is because she says, "we'll make a new plan"). Being a detective type, she's an analyst, clever and intuitive, she acts on her gut more than she plans for things. She is all about the "who" and the "why", but not the "how". All she says is that confrontation "won't solve things". And when she says "this city needs healing", how can that be done? Does she want to negotiate with Silco? She seems like a person who would want that approach, but unfortunately we don't have her reaction to Vi's rant about the futility of negotiation with Silco at the meeting. And also, Caitlyn has seen the direct consequences of shimmer and has faced Silco so she knows he's as bad as they come. Would she be allright with Zaun being independent? I'm leaning towards not, because "healing" is the opposite of separating into two city-states....
But still, I think she would not have liked Jayce and Vi's plan, it's too aggressive. "What happened to you" definitely points me towards that interpretation, and Vi actually shows surprise at that outburst from Caitlyn. Maybe this tells Vi to go meet Jayce alone (put together with all the rest...)
@@tildaowen i see your points, i think you have a great read on caitlyn! She's still too naïve to think of a plan she feels comfortable with (non-agression) is going to work out, but that's part of her sheltered upbringing, and it's why she may struggle to along with a more agressive plan.
I will say though, her quote from the season 2 teaser trailer seems like a much more aware and understanding take away. "If I go after your sister alone, one of us comes back in a box." So she knows she has to have her rifle ready and it's basically first shoots, first kills. So she definitely doesn't wanna do that, but she still mentions it because it seems like she's come to the realization that non-aggression isn't always a viable option.
Oh, I agree, she's much darker going forward! Vi's rejection, Jinx's kidnapping and the mother most likely dying will do that even to her...
I also forgot to say that another reason for why Caitlyn is rejected before Vi goes to Jayce, is in connection with my theory that she has decided beforehand to not pursue a relationship with Caitlyn. She does not only because Vi wants to spare her and because of Caitlyn's more non-violent approach, it's also because Vi feels unworthy of Caitlyn and wants to break it off before they both get even more hurt... So tragic! But that is what the show, and Vi is the tragic hero (sigh...)
@@tildaowen very good point, she probably feels like everyone close to her ends up getting hurt, so better not get too close to anyone. Hope caitlyn can get through to her and help her out of this mindset.
I love this interpretation
Thank you 😊
I feel good to learn more about my favourite character. I don't know if I want to think of them as a character
They feel rather real to me too!
Love your videos!!!!
Thanks a lot! 😊
And also, Vi’s clothes were washed and someone mended them. She got stabbed by sevika and held the wound with her jacket. So both her shirt and jacket had blood on them. But also since she got stabbed, her shirt had to have been ripped right? So when they meet the council her clothes r clean and mended. Which I think is cute is Caitlyn was the one to have done it
Yeah, I like that idea too (or that Caitlyn's father helped). But the shirt doesn't seem to be ripped at any point after the stabbing, so maybe she was stabbed in between trousers and shirt? Anyway, the shirt is squeaky clean at the council meeting, so they've both been scrubbed and washed or changed their clothes. I'm sure Vi did it herself, though, that's who she is, ha ha...
Oh it's 1 a.m. and you just upload a video when I'm about to sleep... guess I won't sleep.
Btw, *something* surely happened on that bed, come on. You don't fantasize or recall moments about a stranger while taking a shower with lazer focused lip biting wall pushing *naked* determination. She even says "what about us," so there is an "us" for them. That is a yes for sure. I don't get why people are still so persistent about calling them good pals or roommates, unless they're historians or you know, homophobic.
He he, sorry to interrupt your sleep... 😂 Oh, something did happen on that bed that was momentous, but in my opinion not sexual... They talked, shared, trusted, relaxed, comforted each other and slept while feeling safe. That's enormous if you think about the days (and lives) they've had. That definitely creates an "us", it doesn't have to be fulfilled with a kiss or more yet... Caitlyn's asking for a relationship, not referring to something that has already been agreed on (without us seeing it?)
And yes, idiots that don't see it's a love story...
@@tildaowen yeah, it doesn't have to be in that context at all, as I've said "something" happened for sure 😂 I just love how they left that time skip out specifically in that specific location and let our minds do the job instead on wondering what may have happened. Regardless of the details, it was a small catch of breath that built lots of trust for sure. Nice vid as always, and off I go! See ya later!
@@Raven_Black_252 I hope you got a good night's sleep, I definitely had to catch some z's... 😊
Yes, the writers are extremely good and crafty, not only layering what we see and hear but even what we don't see and hear! Part of the reason why we are all so hooked on the show!
@@tildaowen definitely, and I hope you did as well! Also yes, I just feel like a sponge for arcane related content at this point. I should be preparing a lesson plan for tomorrow and here I am, watching some arcane videos yet again. Your narration and video editing got much better, btw. Not gonna lie. Hope you get more views, because it's well deserved! Anyway, I gotta go. Please don't rush videos, take your time. You already have a base audience. Good things take time and it's better if you also enjoy doing it without stressing yourself. Cya!
Thank you so much for this video, amazing like all the other ones you have made!!! I love Caitlyn so so so much I just wanna see her happy with Vi... they really are perfect for each other and meant to be ❤ otherwise I'm happy to be the one marrying Caitlyn LOL I love her!!!!!!
Yup, so would I. Is it a problem to be in love with a cartoon character? 🤔😁
And thank you so much, am glad you enjoyed the videos. The next one is about Caitlyn too 🤭 But be patient, it's just in the early stages...
@@tildaowen ahaha no, it is not a problem at all because I am deeply in love with her too 💕😅 she is just perfect, not only hot on the outside but she also has such a beautiful and kind soul it's impossible not to love her! I have never shipped anything this much like Cait and Vi in my entire life! And so looking forward to your next video about my love 😍😍😍
@@irenecasini2573 😂😂 You've got it bad! And same for me, I've never wished more for two to get together than them!
@@tildaowen a glimpse of the future video) Good news
@@elenaekanathapetrova2282 yes, it's in the works, but I'm still in the analysis phase, it's looking to be veeery long! 🙈
I agree, they slept like babies after all they've been trough in 2-3 days! Undertandable and deserved. After watching you interesting tak i wonder if Vi slept well enough: just a couple of day out of prison and had to take in a lot, too much that can be processed easily.
Maybe she used some time to think about something that saddened her immensely, even at the council meeting: maybe her sister trying to kill her? That would break anyone's heart, for Vi is even worse, being getting Powder back her main goal once out of prison.
She's starting to lose hope?
As you said i think Vi already planned to go down, with or without Piltover's help.
Seeing the failure of the council meeting she decide to "go back where's she's from" in a final desperate attempt to defeat SIlco and trying to reason with Powder. Desperate as it could cost her life and she pushes away Cait for this reason. Luckily she convices Jayce and when he back down (a grave mistake for me) Vi keeps fighting alone.
Anyway their main plan for the council meeting was exposing Silco and making the idiots stop killing firelights. Then the council would have devised a plan (yeah, silly me!)
(Also thank you for putting me in the video thanks!)
You're welcome, the thanks in the video was sincere, we've had some inspiring talks 😊
And I agree with you, Vi is definitely losing hope! Powder might be lost or even dying/dead, Ekko might be dead, Silco seems to be gaining ground, not losing it, and she thinks she is unworthy of Caitlyn... Have some faith, woman!
I can understand why Jayce pulls the plug, negotiating with Silco was a lesser evil for him... But yeah, I liked the alliance between Vi and Jayce too, it worked!
I think at best they napped and woke up awkwardly spooning. Maybe holding hands. Either way I think it's sweet.
Yes, or that hands had wandered to awkward places and they get all embarrassed... ❤️ That's the way I see their relationship too, as in the cute and awkward and innocent phase, not shagging already...
I found you video and perception interesting and the video is nice 👍.
My thoughts on their plan before the council’s meeting. I believe the reason their plan wasn’t a great plan, is due to the unplanned distraction of their feelings for each other. Caitlyn and Vi didn’t plan on getting closer, alone, and on a bed together. It’s clear on the bridge when they are both saying good bye; Vi and Caitlyn hug in a very affection manner. The feelings for each other was very clear in the moment of the goodbye for now hug on the bridge. Something might have happened in Caitlyn bedroom, either they cuddle, made out, or more. Remember they had all day to sleep, shower, make a plan, make out, and more…there was plenty of time for it all…before the meeting. Just because nothing was shown, doesn’t mean anything. The writers indicated and say, they are leaving up to us and our imaginations.
Thank you, and I agree their mutual affection/attraction takes them both by surprise, definitely not the plan to fall in love! But I still think making out or something more is too important for their relationship to be left off screen... But I guess we'll find out when season 2 comes 😊
I agree with Tilda, I think that would be too important to hide away offscreen. There is a tendency to do that with queer relationships, especially in animated shows, and straight pairings don't receive the same treatment. Vi and Caitlyn have a built-in fan base going back 10 years, so if the best the writers can do is resort to one of the oldest homophobic tropes in the book after just 3 episodes of them together, and deny both old and new fans their first kiss by hiding it away offscreen, I'd be pretty unhappy!
Amanda Overton also refused to speculate about what happened because she said the writers know (they would have to!) and said that talking about it would be a spoiler for S2, so that suggests that some clarification may be forthcoming next season. I don't think they teased us with the possibility of an onscreen first kiss in episode 6 only to never actually show it. I'm not sure exactly what game they decided to play with episode 8, but it feels to me like things are perhaps not quite what they seem. We have a long wait to find out, though!
@@jubimadethis5167 Oh, I agree, so much teasing and then nothing? No, they're going to give us what we want! Eventually... (probably after lots of misery and misfortune 😭)
Caitlyn judges people by herself. People in general tend to see others in this way.. She has a good heart. It's good to see the good in others.. and not lose it when faced with reality. I think Vi can teach that. We've talked about this before.
Now about different forms of the plan) again)) and how different characters relate to the truth.
For me, this is an important and interesting topic in the story.
Caitlyn wants to know the real holistic world. She is naive but she is ready to accept the truth. She's not mature enough yet but this “flaw” passes with experience of life.
For example. She did’t believe that the enforcers are hunting for Ekko’s people.
“If enforcers are becoming more… aggressive, that's why”[because the Gemstone]
but it is not so
Caitlyn was able to put these puzzles together only on the bridge or maybe later. When she faced Marcus's betrayal.
I think it was convenient for Marcus to blame everything on the firelights, to unleashing anger and aggression on them.
It would have happened anyway with or without the Gemstone.
Jace is not ready to face reality. If Caitlyn wants to and has to.. Jase jast has to. later we’ll verify this (at the factory)
Do you remember Jace's reaction on the bridge? he only saw the consequences while Caitlyn went through it all.
Caitlyn is naive because she thinks that it's enough to inform others what is happening and what is the reality.
She doesn't get the idea that people choose ignorance. It's well shown in The Matrix.)
Its (inform others) works with Jace but not with The Councilers.
Jace is ready for acte but The Councilers doesn’t.
The unwillingness to acte leads to unwillingness to see. That’s ignorance became a downfall. This is the story of how leaders who betray the truth then betray the people and go to ruin.
Well, Marcus was ordered by Silco to blame it all on the Firelights (Marcus takes Jinx's bomb and gives it to Jayce, saying it's made by the Firelights...), and he was actually also ordered by Silco to take care of the Caitlyn problem (when Silco went to Marcus's daughter's room), so he's following orders when he has Caitlyn at gunpoint. But he has trouble pulling the trigger, because it's one thing for him to shoot a zaunite, another to shoot a Piltie, who on top of it is his employee and a Councillor's daughter too...
@@tildaowen I didn't really like Marcus' behavior from the very beginning. When Graysnon was a Shirif. He was probably already nervous at that time because of the connection with Silko. But Marcus obviously didn't want to shoot Caitlyn.
@@tildaowen Marcus didn't want Grayson dead. He repented. And he couldn't have done that with his own hands to Caitlyn. he hesitated even if at the cost of his daughter. His death is a kind of mercy to him.
@@elenaekanathapetrova2282 yes, he's generally a rather hateful character, but he does have some redeeming qualities as you mention...
@@tildaowen including love for daughter and respect for Gryson
Who are you're favorite characters in arcane?
Isn't it obvious? 😉 Caitlyn and then Vi 😁 Ekko as well. How about you?
@@tildaowen I knew Caitlyn was your favorite 😁 My favorites are Vi then Victor
💜💜💜
Thanks
interesting 🤔
I rewatch the video and Caitlyn literally tells Ekko that she has a friend on the council and he will listen to her.. But he interrupted her and changed the subject to Jinx. Vi, on the contrary, realized that he was more ready to act than others. and she tooks the risk by offering him a deal.. either way she trusted Caitlyn enough or she had nothing to lose.. which is also true
Yes, Vi already knows Jayce and that Caitlyn trusts him, so Vi seeing his aggressive approach at the council meeting only affirms that he is the one to talk to...
Yaaaay!
😂😂😂 Enjoy!
@@tildaowen I did, thank you!
Yes but I will still want to know how vi became an enforcer like Caitlyn and too Why with her gauntlet is a different kind of enforcer
Me too!
I would love to hear your thoughts on the final season scenes in another video :-) Please pretty please? ;-)
You're talking about Jinx's Tea Party in episode 9? I talk a little bit about that in my video about Caitlyn's shower scene. But maybe you want more than that? 😉 Any specific focus? I'm not sure I'm going to go that way again, but you never know...
Yes, the tea party scene in episode 9, and the final scenes of the episode. I really loved your in-depth breakdown of the shower scene, and I was wondering if you could do something similar for these other scenes that conclude the season. It feels that there is so much to unpack in there!
I did warch all of your Arcane videos and I really like your style and insights. Your in-depth dives into particular scenes (the shower scene, Cait and Vi’s audience at the council “without a plan”) really add richness to my experience of the show - and even inspire reflections on life in general :-)
@@elsabeaulieu Wow, thank you! I'm glad you like that type of analysis, in Arcane there's always loads of information almost frame by frame. But Jinx's Tea Party is quite long, so dissecting that would be quite the marathon... But I'll think about it 😊👍 I was actually thinking of dissecting the Firelight intro in episode 7, loads of info there too...
I will gladly watch any video essay of yours on any scene that inspires you to analyze it :-)
I think Vi's decision to push away Cait was not necessarily because she would disagree on the approach against Silco, but because it would be dangerous for her to be around when Vi tries again to approach Jinx. Sure, the approach against Silco is a part of it, but not fundamental, because ultimately Silco will be gone, and their relationship will have time to develop afterwards...but Jinx will always be there. She gives Cait the reason that they are too different because they come from different worlds, but I think that's just a smokescreen for the real reason, which is Jinx. Before Ekko intervened, Jinx basically tried to shoot them, and should would have if Vi wouldn't have pushed each other away on the bridge. This is why Cait is so confused, because she knows Silco and the differences between top and bottom should not be reason enough to stop the Vi she met from pursuing a relationship, a relationship for which Vi herself made the first step in the brothel scene.
What confuses me is why Vi gave up Jinx. She could have said it was one of Silco's henchmen. But by naming Jinx, she basically insured she will be a primary target, up there with Silco, in the action the she herself asks the council to take. I think this is a the most fascinating topic to explore: what were Vi's intentions regarding Jinx at the moment of the council meeting, all the way until Jinx kidnaps her.
Does she think Jinx is beyond her reach or redemption? I don't think so, since that's why she wanted Silco gone, so she can try to reach her again, and she's not someone to give up easily on her primary goal in life, which kept her going all those years in prison.
Does she feel that Jinx, although she's her sister, needs to be held accountable for killing the enforcers (which would lead to her being imprisoned for life, or even executed)? I don't think so. Why? Because Vi herself would probably have hurt enforcers, she met a bad one in Marcus which let her rot in prison, and meeting a good one in Cait does not necessarily change her whole perspective on the enforcers in general, just elevates them from pure evil to human, but still oppressors. So would she actually allow her sister to be arrested and tried for murder, after let's say Silco is killed? I don't think so.
Did she nominate Jinx because she does not lie, in principle, and wanted to get Cait off the hook? Could be, but I think she would do anything, including lie, to save her sister. Again, she could have blamed it on a henchman.
Does she have some sort of twisted plan, like using the Piltover forces to destroy Silco, and then somehow help Jinx get away before the authorities get to her as well?
I like to think there is some logic behind that decision, and not some plot hole.
For some reason this comment disappeared in my end, but I'm glad I found it, because you have some excellent points!
I agree with you, Powder/Jinx is everything to Vi. Caitlyn is quickly climbing in her regard, but Powder is way higher, both because of the blood over water (cp. oil and water) and the deep sisterly love Vi has for Powder, as well as the sense of guilt and responsibility Vi has for Powder's "jinxed" fate... So giving Caitlyn the slip feels wrong (because she doesn't believe what she's saying), but it fits right into her character arc. She is softer because of Caitlyn, but not fundamentally so. She has a sworn enemy and a trusted method to get to him (which she knows from experience works), so she leaves the promise of a future behind to fight the ghosts of the past and ultimately save her sister. It doesn't work, because "Jinx" (bad luck) has other plans...
Giving up Jinx's name doesn't mean giving up her sister to the council. For one, it's not her real name, and Vi doesn't give any info about her whereabouts or that she's family. Secondly, who in the show actually knows who Jinx really is and what she looks like? Very few key people do (Silco, Sevika, Vi, Caitlyn, Ekko, all but one from Zaun), the rest only see her graffiti and experience her mayhem (bombs, etc.). Thirdly, Vi's probably not even sure Powder is alive at this point, either she's going to try and fight Silco to save Powder or revenge her death... And finally, Vi actually suggests at Jinx's Tea Party in ep. 9 that she and Powder could leave and never return: this move would save Caitlyn, yes, but she would leave her behind and pick Powder any day.
I agree with you, Vi doesn't want Jinx to see justice. I think Vi's view of Piltover and enforcers has changed in the sense that she now knows there may be some people there that have the capacity for good. But I don't think she has forgiven everything or suddenly switched sides. Vi has just spent almost a decade in prison for no crime committed, so I don't think she wants to send Powder there. Vi has paid the debt for her so to speak. Also because in Vi's eyes, Powder is innocent. Jinx may not be, but Vi sees Jinx as not Powder, as something wrong that needs to be removed, which can be done by eliminating Silco and removing her to her own care. A totally misguided notion, but born out of love and protection... Such a well written show!!!
@@tildaowen Interesting point that Cait "softens" Vi...Does Vi push Cait away also because with her she "can't make the necessary decisions to keep everyone safe"? I wonder where we saw that parallel before? ;)
I thought that giving Jinx to the counsel is just giving them a name, but there are actually a lot of people under Silco who know how Jinx looks like. She sometimes participates in missions (see guard the cargo), and after that Sevika suggests that the cargo fiasco is just the latest in a long line of issues with Jinx, hence "she's a problem and we all know it" quote. "All" meaning Silco's people, which means Jinx is debated in those circles. There is also the bartender who is visibly intimidated by her, knows who she is, and she looks very relaxed in the scene where she has her drink at the bar, suggesting she does that sometimes, hang out so people see her (she used to drink at the bar during Vander's time as well). And there is the crime boss lady who asks "Jinx will fix it...where is Jinx anyhow?"...that tells me she knows at least how Jinx looks like, she has interacted with her already. And there are Firelights, all of them know who she is, and her story, and I doubt that Ekko can stop any of them who lost family members to Jinx, from giving her up.
It's not as if Jinx was kept in a cage for the last 7 years, she wonders around the undercity, many times Silco doesn't know where she is. So I would say it's very likely A LOT of people from the undercity know how she looks like, and would sell her out.
In fact, this brings me to another question, which I find weird: Vi tells Cait that "how anyone can not know that" everyone works for Silco...yet in prison she seems to be oblivious to Jinx's existence. IMO it is impossible for her not to put 2 and 2 together, if she heard rumors of a girl working for Silco which blows stuff up and calls herself Jinx. Vi doesn't need the monkey graffiti as additional evidence, she has enough to realize that Jinx is Powder. Which means she actually never heard of her in prison, with all those rumors running around. I would say it's pretty improbable not one inmate in the last 7 years has not spoken of Jinx, considering probably 90% of them are from the undercity. Since she knows "everybody" works for Silco (7 years earlier no one knew Silco even existed until he killed Vander), this means she has been keeping tabs from prison and gathering information on Silco's enterprises. This is how she suggests to Jayce to blow up the shimmer facilities. So she knows a lot about Silco's operations from prison...but somehow she never heard of Jinx. Don't you find that weird?
My first thoughts about it that what is it means to have a plan
It’s simple word but sometimes different people have different picture about thet.
Sometimes it can be a place of conflict and things doesn't work the way you think or expect
I'm not sure I know what you mean by "plane"?
@@tildaowen I will try to write in more detail today.
@@tildaowen but that was my question
@@tildaowen I think maybe we have a difference between tactical and strategic planning as an option
@@elenaekanathapetrova2282 😂 Okay, so are you asking in general or about something I say in the video? Do you mean "plane" as in aeroplanes that we fly in or as "plane of existence"? Or do you mean "plain" as in simple or the savannah (yup, English teacher back in play 😂)?
Thank you for your interesting video! I agree with you and think there wasn't a first kiss yet, and hope we could see it in the next season. It also seemed strange for me, that Vi and Caitlyn had different points of view how to deal with the conflict, but your explanation is exact - they had different aims
Thank you, I hope to see much more of them next season too! I think we will see it "live", can't wait!
I'm glad someone else simps for cait as much as I do 😂
Well, it seems there a lot of people out there that are gaga over Caitlyn (like me and you!) 😂
I also think they just took a nap 🤣🤣
9:18 HAHAHAH just pretty superficial digging
Yaaay another good arcane video as always c: did you ever play the game? Or just like the series? (Personally I was never interested in the game hahah but the series stole my heart)
He he, well, depends on what you dig into I guess 😉 Glad you liked it! Never played the game and don't intend to, just fan of the amazing show!
@@tildaowen yeah the same, just a little curious because maybe are more extra information on the game... but meh I wait for the season 2 haha
@@CR-uu3pi that's my plan too!
I'd love to hear your thoughts about Jace's offer to grant independence to the undercity.
I can't imagine it would affect the people there at all. It seems like they basically already have independence. Except when they get too out of line and enforcers are sent in. But it isn't like Piltover wouldn't just send in an occupation force on occasion if the undercity was technically independent.
And the undercity's main issue is that it is neglected. It would be just as neglected if it was independent. Cisco would have even a freer hand at exploiting them. Symbolically it might be neat for them... But it seems to me it would be a change without meaning, as long as the crimelords still ran the now legit government.
I guess it is sort of a technicality, the crime lords would still have the power. Some of it, anyway. But I guess poverty, repression and subsequent lives of crime are because the topsiders control the money, the land (owning it, I mean) and the market, taking a cut (taxes) off everything the zaunites earn. This is never overtly said, but I think that's what is going on. To me it almost feels like apartheid... Anyway, if the zaunites don't have to pay taxes to Piltover, if they actually own the land they live on, making their own rules, that would be different. Kind of like the wild west...
@@tildaowen It is really cool you responded. I've really enjoyed your videos.
Yeah, you make some good points. In my head canon the only taxes Piltover would be getting would have been from the rich industrialists who are exploiting the workers. But they'd just pocket the extra cash they save and wouldn't pass it forward. I kind of figured that if the government of Piltover can't even send cops into the area they aren't really able to extract money from the area either. But hey, you are likely right that they do collect at least some money from the downtrodden directly.
I dunno. The whole situation is pretty bleak. War would obviously be bad. But independence isn't much better. Ideally the council would have put effort into actually helping the people under their thumb. But I guess that option was never really even considered.
@@MonkeySimius Yeah, the story is definitely a tragedy, so a lot of things are pretty bleak with just a few drops of hope (Vi, Caitlyn, Jayce, and especially Ekko). The violence is always simmering close to the surface from both sides, just waiting to break out into full riots/rebellion and war again (like when Vi and Powder lost their parents). The nature of tragedy is also to have good intentions go wrong, and for reconciliation to be ruined by simple misunderstandings... That's what makes it so much harder (and better TV) to watch, to have the promise of a solution within reach only to be dashed immediately. We'll never know if the peace Jayce and Silco negotiated would have worked, because Jinx, the agent of chaos, understood things differently...
I'm glad you like my videos, I try to get around to answering all comments, especially when they're interesting 😊
I think the 'Oil and Water' scene was not properly put together, one of the rare times this happens during the season. I think you absolutely hit the nail on the head with your analysis, but as you said, you had to dig deep to properly understand everything there.
It, to me, would have been much more readable if, after Vi walks off in the rain, we cut to her face and see her look of remorse suddenly harden into a look of steely resolve. Then, rather than cutting to the scene with Viktor, we immediately go to the scene with Jayce, really emphasizing the disconnect between Vi's words and actions.
The problem is the scene with Viktor's run and Skye's death is cut inbetween these two events, and those scenes are such an emotional rollercoaster that its easy to forget the context of Vi and Cait's dispute. I personally was completely confused by the breakup the first two watchthroughs for this reason. I really appreciate the analysis and its a shame what you found was not as apparent as it could have been.
Thank you! Oh, I think the writers of the show are deliberately doing things not only to confuse us, but also to leave a lot up to interpretation. That way they leave us hooked and wanting more, and engage us in their story, especially by putting something in between almost making us forget what was going on. So each scene after impacts us more... Which was also why the shower scene later was that good! Because even Caitlyn was trying to make sense of what happened at the council and in the rain. And if everything had been clear cut with how Vi felt about it (seeing her back instead of her face), we wouldn't have been as scared or unsure of who she would side with at Jinx's Tea Party in the following episode. I totally understand your confusion, I was the same, but it led me to making first the shower scene video and then the council scene video too. I'm glad I could help you a little! 😊
@@tildaowen I see what you mean actually, you are right. The uncertainty does add a lot to those further scenes, even if it makes the initial scene less apparent in meaning. Its not as if the evidence is not there in the text of course, as you showed here. I'm so glad I found this channel, all your videos have been a joy to watch! 💙
@@PlatonicLiquid thank you so much! 😊
I think they shared a kiss or had at least an awkward moment with a lot of physical attraction in between
Well, lying exhausted in bed, holding hands, gazing at each other and then falling asleep qualifies as an awkward moment with a lot of physical attraction in my book 😂 I don't think a kiss happened (based on what I said in the video), but it is still a beautiful, romantic moment 😊❤️
If you translate the German version of the oil and water scene Vi answers to “what about us?” With “it’s not gonna happen”. same meaning but it has such a different vibe to it imo, one I can’t quite explain
Well, I think there's a subtle but rather important difference between the two, in the original Vi's talking in the past tense, commenting on what has happened up until that point, and now they're at square one again. In a sense you could argue that though it wasn't meant to be before in the past, there's a small window for the future... The German version only speaks of the future, closing the book on their story... (nooo!)
What we saw for Cait and Vi in the bedroom was what happened. Talk. Probably just Vi with Cait listening. Why? In the tea party scene, when Jinx starts to raise the silver cover Vi flashes back to an image of Cait. A slightly altered image (compare and see! Cait's eyes are remembered as much larger, with fuller lips) but of the same pose just before the hand reach and touch. If Vi pulled this memory of Cait, it was the most significant. The fact that they used a new image but not a substantially different image, means that what happened between the touch and the council meeting wasn't as impactful or it would have been that image that Vi would have flashed to. I would even be surprised that when Caitlyn got dressed for the council meeting, that Vi didn't watch.
I agree, we are not shown much in that scene, because not much happened! It's too soon, and Vi has just lost her sister all over again, she doesn't know if she is alive or dead...
@@tildaowen I meant to say that "I wouldn't have been surprised that Vi didn't watch." Just realized I screwed up.
@@KnugLidi I think I got that? And I agree, they're not there yet...
No, I think they were just winging it.
Vi & Cait probably took a nice nap After ....there's no way that touch on the face when Vi was opening up and being vulnerable for that not to lead to some sexual healing ....
That would be Caitlyn taking advantage of a vulnerable Vi imo... Caitlyn is so supportive and caring in that scene, listening and giving Vi room to feel sad for the possible loss of her sister (again). Vi doesn't need sexual healing... She needs sleep and safe rest in the arms of a protector ❤️
I think something happened in Caitlin bedroom, than why did jinx tell Vi that I've paid your Girlfriend a visit. Jinx is like a spy and she must've seen Caitlin and Vi together..I mean, we can see that clearly when Caitlin was in the shower and she saw jinx reflection in the mirror.
I agree, she is like a spy on them! But not in the bed scene, she was under the knife in Singed's lab at that time, she doesn't appear till well after the council scene... She spied them hugging on the bridge and made that assumption. I also think she meant "girlfriend" as a slur instead of friend or partner, belittling Caitlyn's role as just a pretty face...
An interesting interpretation of why vi is sad on the council meeting. I had just thought that she was sad because she is doing something she is conflited to negociate with piltover, i mean she blamed vander for working with them and now she is doing the exact same thing, loke father like daughter i guess.
I think that's part of it too, working together with the previous enemy, but I think the sadness is primarily because of Powder and Caitlyn... But yeah, like father like daughter, both tried the hard way, then the peaceful way, only to return to punching in the end... Let's hope things change in season 2!
@@tildaowen Yeah, depending of who survived to the explosion , I would like to watch at least one moment of peace for Vi and Cait. Hope Cait can help Vi to see she is not responsible for her sisters actions . In the game as I read they work together as enforcers and live together. So maybe finally Vi will understand that her sister is too far gone as Cait said and that both will work to get her at some point.
@@Violet2148 I've heard the same about Caitlyn and Vi, but I think it will take a while before they get there... And I fear that Caitlyn will become darker if her mother dies. And vengeance on Jinx for that could definitely drive (another) wedge between the two 🙈😳 But I'm hoping all the same, and I think they will get together, just a lot of heartbreak first...
@@tildaowen I read somewhere that in the game is another villian that kills both of Cait parents not Jinx , and that Vi and Cassandra get along well so maybe in Arcane she is one of the survivors.
@@Violet2148 I heard that Caitlyn's parents were kidnapped, I didn't hear about their deaths though. But I also heard that the show differs from the lore on several points (e.g. The origin of Piltover and Zaun), so I'm not sure we can assume anything...
When you said: she by looking down as if considering the hextech. The dummies on internet said Vi was looking in caitlyn’s ass . Thats how i know your videos are so analityc deep and i love it
Ha ha, thank you, I'm glad you appreciate the level of my analysis! Caitlyn has a fine arse, but that's not what's on Vi's mind in that moment!
I also think they just slept and I believe Vi left Caitlin behind cause she was mad at her because she thought she would convince the council to fight Silco maybe kill him so powder could be free...mad at herself for putting Faith in Caitlin thinking she could help and realising why she didn't kill Savika it's cause she never intended to fight but just help the under city with maybe jobs,medicine and food stuff like that.....So Vi realised not even a councillors daughter help wasn't enough to get what she wants which is powder,Silco dead and maybe even take powder and leave.
Interesting theories! I definitely think that if Jinx had said yes, Vi would leave Caitlyn and Piltover behind to see if the sisters could live their lives together elsewhere... First of all, because Vi feels so guilty for hurting and leaving Powder (she's too hard on herself!), her sense of responsibility bids her to pick Jinx. Secondly, Vi doesn't think she deserves someone like Caitlyn, and feels Caitlyn would be better off without her, so she pushes her away. I don't think Vi is mad at Caitlyn, who honestly tries her best.
I think Vi hopes Caitlyn's approach can help the undercity and the Firelights, whereas she herself plans to go toe to toe with Silco. She's mad when Caitlyn's plan doesn't work, but I think mostly at the council...
@@tildaowen Maybe Vi mostly mad because she didn't listen to Vander and just protect the family instead of doing what he warned her not to do by taking her friends in a dangerous situation that got them killed... Vi left Powder behind twice in the past and a third time on the bridge.
@@dominant1009 well, she did listen to Vander, that's why she is so wrought about everything. She didn't leave Powder willingly at any time, except when she tries to save Vander, where she leaves Powder behind for her own good, precisely because of Vander's words. She protects those she cares about by leaving them behind, but she hurts herself, Powder and Caitlyn by doing it. She's misguided by Vander for one thing and takes too much on herself for another! Vi needs to learn how to accept help...
@@tildaowen i ment that in Powder's pov Vi left her 3times,at the house to go surrender herself then when she left her home to go rescue Vander and when she left her behind and Silco found her and now at the bridge with Caitlin...but i feel like Vi kept ditching Caitlin to protect her and also making the same mistakes...leaving exposes both her and Caitlin alot of harm same with powder..
@@dominant1009 Oh, yes, I agree, Vi has to get the memo that leaving people behind is not a solution! It hurts both herself and the person she leaves, and it doesn't solve anything, in fact it comes back to haunt her later...
If you know anything about Vi, you know she's not a planner.
As for Cait, she may be from top side but she's never addressed the council like that before. She probably never talked to the councillors before, so she has no idea what to expect.
Their plans was just to expose Silco and his plans, and they expected the councillors to know what to do and immediately arrest him somehow. For Vi, the enforcers are an unstoppable force, so Vi thought it's over for Silco once they know who to arrest.
Quite right, Vi is no planer! But Caitlyn is, so I thought she would have been more prepared. And yes, Vi was diplomatic on the surface in order to get the council's (and thereby the enforcers') help against Silco
@@tildaowen Hmm... I want to agree that Cait is a planner but the more I think about it... She's not that kind of planner. She's smart and good at detective stuff, but planning and scheming on a larger scale? Conspiracy and war? I don't think that's her thing. She's young and naive. She's honest and a straightforward good person. She's quite oblivious and disinterested in politics. So I keep thinking of what plan could she possibly come up with, and I can't think of any. Exposing Silco to authority is all she thinks she gotta do because that's how it should work, and I believe is how she's been operating. It's the end of her duty as a detective, and the authority would know how to get rid of the bad guy. I don't think she expected the council to be quite a mess, but even if she did, I don't think she knows how to solve this complex issue. Nobody knows.
Edit: I think I miss your point a bit here. The interesting thing about the scene is Cait and Vi didn't seem to have discussed what the council should do to Silco. I agree with you on that.
@@rustygear447 I agree on your points about, she's not a schemer or interested in politics. But she is interested in truth and justice, and since she's a thinker (and a doer), I would think she had some sort of plan, especially because her mother said so. Then again her preparation probably only consisted of compiling facts about Silco, cleaning herself up and dressing in her uniform 🤷🏼♀️ She probably - naively - expected the council to make an arrest order for Silco...
I’m sure you’re right that no hay was rolled in during the day but there is, possibly, another reason why Vi might have made her excuses and left; she’s scared because she’s never slept with anyone. We don’t know exactly how old she is nor how long she spent in prison. We don’t know how she spent her time inside - was the cell that we first see her in her lot throughout her time there or was she in solitary because she’d just beaten up another prisoner? Was she, to put it coyly, dating before her incarceration? Did she go full Orange is the New Black whilst inside? It’s possible that her fairly aggressive actions in the brothel are bravado. It’s possible that brave facade masks a nervous maiden . . .
Interesting point! I actually think both Vi and Caitlyn are totally inexperienced, especially in the love/girlfriend department. Their lives just have not had room for that at all! I have no proof of this virginity theory, but I also cannot find anything to disprove it... I think both of them are surprised and more than a little scared at the prospect of loving someone like that, exposing themselves to potentially being hurt. Caitlyn is the most courageous, asking Vi to stay for her, but she has also had the safest childhood, so she isn't as exposed as Vi...
. . . but we know from the writer that it's not the first time Caitlyn has brought a girl in that way. Perhaps she needed a bridge partner? 😉
@@petearundel166 okay, I need to see that piece of information (was it a tweet?) to believe it... So far their tweets have been VERY ambiguous, so you can read almost anything into it... But then again, we could get a flashback in season 2 about Caitlyn's exploitations, but I always thought the "strays" she brought home were people or animals in need of help (true to her altruistic nature and her focus on helping people...)
@@tildaowen I don't tweet so I probably picked that little nugget up from a TH-cam comment. That said, Google is my friend so I did a quick search on the terms Amanda Overton, Caitlyn and Sneaking Girls Into Her Room and something a bit ambiguous popped up.
Well, no matter how experienced, or not, Ms Kirraman is I doubt she'd do anything hasty that might jeopardise a budding relationship with a Vi. She respects her at least as much as she fancies the pants off her.
@@petearundel166 Thank you for doing that, then I don't have to 😉 Are you quoting from "Well,..." or is that your comment on her words?
💣💥🔥👍🙂 good and deeply
😂😂😂 I guess I got your thoughts running again!
@@tildaowen yes.. i will definitely share with you. just my first reaction WOW))
@@tildaowen and I was waiting for your new video )
@@elenaekanathapetrova2282 Good to hear 😊
The "Break free from her mother" became irony at the end of season 1 when her mom is killed by the love of her life's sister.
And I like when you explain why nothing sexual has happened on that bed before the council. Lgbtqa+ fans really like it to happen and came up with so many proof that they b*nged. I think it's way to unlikely and unnecessary and forced. It goes against everything we like about CaitVi, they have a bond that develop naturally, nothing about that relationship make the audience feel like it was force or rushing the time. I know the audience is THIRSTY for cannon lesbian relationship, me to, but suggesting they have had sex take away the beauty of what Cait-Vi is. This isn't the time yet.
I agree completely! It was too soon, not the best moment for them or the story, and all the speculation stems from fans of mostly the game... There are so many times in films or TV shows where you cut away from a scene, creating a small cliffhanger, and it leaves you wondering. But when you see the characters again later and they mention nothing about that scene at that point, then nothing happened! Very simple explanation, but fans of CaitVi needed a much longer one 😂 I'm like you, a huge fan of CaitVi and I want to see them happen, and I have no reason to believe we won't...
Hey I think Vi and Caitlyn cuddled in bed while sleeping but they haven’t had their first kiss yet. Hope they do in season 2.
That is my greatest wish too, and I'm actually rather certain that it will happen! 😊
@@tildaowen Me too. And don’t forget the sex scene in season 2.
@@rileyduncan3927 well, I'll be satisfied as long as there's a kiss 😊❤️
@@tildaowen What about a sex scene?
I really enjoy your insights and your voice is lovely! Are there any other lesbian couples in media that you’re interested in enough to make videos on?
Thank you 😊 Well, there are quite a few lesbians in TV and film that I'm interested in, but none as well portrayed as Caitlyn and Vi...
I've always loved the Swedish film "Fucking Åmål" to pieces! (hmm, I think it's called "Show me love" in English?) There's loads to analyse and interpret in there, but it's quite old (1998) and in Swedish, so probably not the best way to go... Maybe "Gentleman Jack"? But that's not so much the couple I like, but more the main character Anne Lister, so funny!
I also really liked Arizona and Calleigh in "Grey's Anatomy", but that didn't end well, unfortunately (and that matters...)
Have you got any suggestions?
@@tildaowen haha yes I did think Fucking Amal was a bit of a raunchy title if it were English, I will look into it though as I haven’t seen it! Agree that Anne Lister is great too. There is a couple called Catradora from a show called She Ra that I really like - the show is aimed at children/teens but they have a very interesting dynamic throughout the show as they go from friends to enemies to lovers. I will say that they definitely have a much more unhealthy relationship for the first few seasons than Vi and Caitlyn so if that’s not your thing you probably won’t like them but I love the complexity and forgiveness that they show.
@@shutitmugface Yes, in Denmark and Sweden we tend to use the English swear words rather lightly, when it's a different language it doesn't feel so harsh, apparently...
I've seen She-ra and liked it a lot! That show really does representation well, and shows how anyone can change and be forgiven (wonderful message!) But I spent most seasons disliking Catra though I can understand why she acts as she does. And the amount of screen time where it's actually about them liking each other as more than friends or siblings is SO little! It's only the last 5 episodes that it becomes obvious (and I was looking for it!). My daughter only got that when they actually kissed! So I doubt I'll go that way...
@@tildaowen yes that’s fair enough, I only watched it recently so I went in knowing that they would be a couple which probably made me pretty lenient on Catra. It’s a lovely show though, glad you and your daughter liked it :) it actually made me cry at the end when they kissed as it seems impossible to me that children are growing up with shows like this now vs 15/20 years ago when I was a kid.
@@shutitmugface oh yes, I definitely pushed my daughter towards it for that very reason! Also The Dragon Prince has some of the same ideas as to forgiveness and not pigeonholing people. Plus a rather badass female lead (though sadly not gay, but there's plenty of other lgbtq+ in there...), it was actually my daughter who showed me that 😊
You're saying that Caitlyn forged Jace's signature to free Vi, right?
I never thought about it. I was wondering what kind of laws Caitlyn violated .. but I didn’t count))
It makes sense. Jace didn't know where Caitlyn was until Marcus asked him about her. It wasn't obvious to me from Jace's reaction.
And it makes even more sense in the scene when Vi comes to Jace. if he did not sign the order, then he had reason to return Vi to prison. it looks more risky to go to him.
Yes, Jayce didn't sign off on it, he has like you say no knowledge of it as we see later... And then she breaks breaks Vi out of prison with the forged document, two for one...
@@tildaowen I also think about the relation to the truth of different characters. I'm gong to writing about it later
@@tildaowen I'm rewatching Arcane and... Caitlyn kicked Jace out. She definitely couldn't have asked him to sign a release order. But she had he’s signature for a fake)) She had an invitation to work)) And Caitlyn found a way to use it))) A kind of self-employment)
I’m rewatching the first episode, I see parallels Vander - Caitlyn.
before Vi went to jail and before she was released.
The way Wander treated Vi's wounds after the fight. Caitlyn instinctively repeated this later and it reminded Vi of him.
And Vi relaxes a bit after Wander treated the wound.
@@elenaekanathapetrova2282 yes, definitely parallels between Vander and Caitlyn, shown e.g. when Caitlyn says Vi has a good heart mirroring Vander's words...
@@tildaowen yes, now i see more visual parallels
I think a lot of your words. You told love is not the answer (in another video).
So.. I think love is not a decision or solvation.
Love is base/foundation
and LANGUAGE for dialog or relationship.
I think the attitude towards a person, the desire to hear him is more important than words.
Love can be sentimental like small talking.
Or can be more deep and subtle.
And somtimes it's not look like somthing cute.
for example
Vander chastises Vi or Caitlyn in her shower.. it's hard sweetnes.
You need really deep connection to accept/ to contained this.
I think a good hard means such a capacity.
And I think trust and love are different steps on the one way.
Love is many wonderful things, I hope you noticed that I say that love both IS and ISN'T the answer/solution at the same time... That duplicity, double nature of the feeling is part of what makes it so interesting, Arcane uses that intentionally, creating all sorts of grey nuances instead of just black and white... 😊
@@tildaowen You're right ). I may have missed a part while watching but I agree with you. This is what attracts me to Arcane. It is as close as possible to different facets of real life)
Hm.. Sometimes I make mistakes. Аnd it makes me think or make a discovery for myself. I'm learning to appreciate it. And I love it about Silko and Jinx. He saw no problem in her mistakes, whatever the consequences. This is very interesting for me. Many discoveries came about as a result of a "mistake". It's amazing how ALL these topics are intertwined in the show.
@@elenaekanathapetrova2282 yes, I agree, mistakes aren't necessarily bad, Silco did love Jinx, despite not always doing what he wanted... But sometimes a parent SHOULD try to correct their children's mistakes, but he doesn't at all, and it just pushes her further into chaos...
@@tildaowen You're right.
I think Silko loved this chaos. Parents cannot go beyond their ideas of the good. Sometimes it breaks the life of their children
@@elenaekanathapetrova2282 true!
Tolda, since much of the Council were total dicks (except one), who do you think will be the main antagonist for S2? I'm rooting for Jayce.
It depends on who survives of course, but I'm hoping Jayce won't be the one... Depends if Mel dies or not. If she lives and is horribly disfigured or sth like that, then I think she'll be the main antagonist probably along with her mother. If she dies then definitely the mother Ambessa, probably in cahoots with Jayce...
@@tildaowen Which makes me wonder Tilda, what be their weapons?
@@user-pi6qr7zm7m no idea (I don't play the game) and frankly it doesn't really interest me 🤷🏼♀️
@@tildaowen They possibly do not at the moment.
Vi’s assumption that Silco could not be negotiated with was true. Jayce didn’t negotiate- he handed Silco everything he wanted with the only concession being Silco stop Shimmer production. Something that not only would Silco never do despite his words, but something he simply could not do. The Chem Baron crime lords derive their power, and even more importantly their wealth, through the control Shimmer gives them in Undercity. It is simultaneously their only weapon against Topside, their addictive leash on Undercity and the heartbeat of the technology industrializing their city. If Silco were foolish enough to try and stop shimmer production he would very quickly find himself face down in a gutter at the hands of the next Finn.
That aside however there’s just the fact that Silco should not be negotiated with. Peace might mean re-establishing a favorable status quo for Topside but there’s no outcome that leaves Silco in charge that results in anything but continued brutal oppression, exploitation and suffering for the citizend of Zaun. Its no coincidence that Silco’s demands include nothing that would actually help the people of Zaun- Amnesty, access to trade routes, access to the gate, these are things that would only benefit his criminal syndicate. Vi recognizes this fact about Silco, a fact Caitlyn’s sheltered idealism, Jayces inexperienced naivety and the councils apathetic cynicism prevents them from either seeing at all or caring about. its why she’s incensed by the idea the council would entertain the idea of working with such a monster; Unlike them, she knows what the result would be. Shes lived it.
Hi Troika S, sorry for the delay, it seems your comment disappeared in my feed...
Thank you for your insight, I definitely agree that Silco is selfish in his "negotiations", he believes he is working for the greater good of the undercity, but really he is building his own empire, like you said with his demands. And Vi knows this about him. But she hasn't seen him in years, she doesn't know what he has become also through his relationship with Jinx.
So I do think he negotiates. Or intended to. "The boy didn't even haggle" is what he says later to the statue of Vander, so he went to the meeting with the intention to negotiate. In that moment, he has been given everything he wanted for Zaun: independence. No more enforcers, no more having to buy the sheriff, he has gained their respect somehow. But it's on the condition of handing over Jinx. And this scene shows how he had not expected this choice to be hard, but he realises he is willing to sacrifice all his dreams and business exploits for his daughter.
12:42 i think you are over analyzing this moment, vi is just admiring cait's butt under the sad look
Well, I think Vi looking at Caitlyn's ass is over analysing, because she has not got romance/sex on her mind, she is focused on getting Silco and finding the help she needs to do that, and Hextech is what she needs! Not Caitlyn's ass... She did appreciate it in the brothel, yes, but for Vi number 1 is always Powder, she wants her out of Silco's grasp. And she has to leave Caitlyn behind in order to do that (also to protect her, of course)...